Great review Karl. You touched on some points the other reviewers didn't cover, especially on the break pedal. I always value your honest reviews, and I actually feel you are telling the truth how you feel it. I'm not so sure about some of the other "channels", even though they claim to totally independent and unbiased... Keep up the great work.
I think this is one of the best videos I have seen of yours! I love how you explain the way race brakes work. While you were talking about the adjustable play in the brake pedal and why it's not needed in sim racing it occurred to me that a lot of pro drivers use sim racing now to learn new tracks so having the ability to make these feel like your real life McLaren GT3 car or whatever you race in real life would really help with learning your braking points.
Wow, I absolutely loved the engineering break down of the differences between real race cars and street car braking, etc. I literally just installed this set today and now “get it” regarding how the respond. Little more seat time and I should be getting more from the set. Again, great review.
Nice review Karl. As many have said, you touched some great points and shared some interesting thoughts. In relation to those thoughts, about the "0 delay brake", I completely agree with that point of view as far as fast/alien simracing goes, but what Asetek says in one of their product videos is that they intend this pedals to be more of a training tool for those who drive real race cars and less of a simulation device to input pressure values in to a game. At the end, as most things in life, this is about points of view, those who want to be the fastest on the sim, and those who want to feel like they are in the real thing without spending hundreds of thousands of "moneys". Good work!
Actually Wills review showed the production models and they do have a rubber bumpstop on the pedal return under the adjustmentscrews to reduce noise. Still think there needs to be something at full lock as well for the same reasons Karl metioned.
Great explanations Karl. I hope your eye problem is sorted quickly. I very much like the Asetec 'high end' design philosophy of being 'fully inclusive' in that you are not expected to pay more money for add on options in the hope of improving performance like some other manufacturers. So while other manufacturers initial 'buy in' price may appear good value it can end up costing much more.
Good review Karl, makes a change to hear from someone that knows what the pedals are attached to. Around 20 years ago I got to drive a formula first car at Silverstone (not on the gp circuit, they have a small training circuit) . The brakes work just like this, tiny initial take up then solid. Took a bit of getting used to but work really well and incredibly controllable. That's on a race car where you don't judge braking so much by now hard you press but feeling the deceleration g -force in your entire body, the sound of the tyres and feeling the tyres interaction with the track through vibrations coming back to the brake pedal through the fluid. In sim racing all we have is sound so have become reliant on pedal feel and muscle memory to create a way of controlling our braking force. Whilst it was an amazing experience driving those single seaters, there is no way I could do a 2 or 3 sim races in an evening with that brake pedal and not suffer the following day.
Your 100% spot on with sim racing, we have no feeling of braking (deceleration or negative G) at all, it's what I miss most from real life and what takes lots of practice to get used to, always flying off track at the first corner in the early days! 😆 That coupled with no real accurate feeling of speed is why sim racing will never be able to replicate real life.
I've watched a lot of videos now about these pedals and pre-ordered them. I was confused initially as well about the elastomer being the play between disc and brake. But this is not exactly how they meant it to be. The "play" is adjusted with giving a bit of slack between the elastomer and the orange stop. But when the elastomer starts to squeeze the car is already supposed to be braking and gives you a nice feeling during trail braking. The second stage is only for hard braking before hairpins after a long straight for example. Asetek gave this explanation to one of the viewers on Will's review.
I agree with you. This review seems to contradict some of the other reviews i have watched that say the elastmoer allows for two-stage braking. Everyone agrees the pedals are hard, but this video makes it look like the pedals are like a light switch. On or off. Am I missing something?
@@simracergiddo Exactly, I think Karl misunderstood the "slack" bit (I did as well) and kept on going about this in the review. Unfortunately people only watching this review can be put off. I sound like an Asetek representative haha.
I was quoting what Asetek said in their own video from 3m 20sec onwards here chaps... th-cam.com/video/QjktKoChfX8/w-d-xo.html He literally says the first stage does nothing and demonstrates a freely spinning wheel. So either they have changed their mind or he got it wrong?! lol But we are of course free to set it up as we like (do nothing or start braking as the elastomer is compressed), just as I explain in this review :)
Also @Giles it's not like light switch mate, the pressure sensor continues to measure your braking input after you reach the hard stop, you are still trying to compress the fluid in the cylinder, this of course does not compress and instead raises the pressure.
@@KarlGosling thanks Karl. i really appreciate you responding. but still leaves me confused if i should order them vs. the HE ultimate +, guess sometimes you need to take a punt and be happy with what you get :)
What a review Karl. The critical thinking regarding what is really needed, and in turn not needed, is a refreshing take to all the reviews out for these pedals. Was really on the fence on getting on the pre-order but after your review I think I will hold off even though the pre-order pricing is fair. Thanks for the well thought out review!
Your real life automobile and especially race car parts knowledge definitely comes in handy on this review. There are not many sim racers that have that level of real-world knowledge as to be able to explain why the brake pedal may not work for some people or some will not prefer it, like the 20mm travel. This is as opposed to other reviewers who will just state this is the best brake pedal there is but likely won't be able to explain why exactly, at the same technical level. The noise level of all 3 pedals in use when they hit the end-stops, metal on metal, would likely be a deal killer for my house. I'am not a fan of not being able to space the pedals out (I know the pedal plates can be moved a bit). I also don't know if these are worth the money once out of pre-order pricing at $200 more total or $1198 USD, is Ultimate + territory for established brand. I appreciate them thinking outside the box with the design. We appreciate it a lot!
BRUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO SPOKE ABOUT THE BRAKE PROPERLY. Absolutely finally and EVERYONE who Sim races should literally watch this video from. @ 17:05 to @22:45
Kudos for mentioning the biting point on clutch launches!!! I have been thinking the same every time I hear one of your peers say that they don't feel it, but they dont think that way if they are only shifting quickly. If you race rally, street, or older cars (and some modern ones) you need to use the clutch properly to get going, never mind clutch kicks in rally and drifting!!! So much fun and sooo technical to get right (Escort mk2 I am looking at you). For me racing with the propper controls is 50% of simulation, that's also why I am trying to find the niche things, like a stationary push/pull paddle shifter for certain cars:P
It's funny that you mention the brake calibration. Last night I actually calibrated out the movement part and really like it that way. I have a little bit of play in the pedal where I can kind of rest and prepare my foot, and then press down and brake.
Great insight on these Karl. Appreciate the detailed brake discussion and thoughts on certain aspects. Much better than Brake Good!! I just got my Simtrecs setup and dialed in the day before these blew up the internet, so a little buyers remorse was setting in. After watching this though, I've realized these are not for me. Feeling much better now. Thanks! ;)
I'm glad your eye is OK! Another great review. It makes me understand why these things cost what they do. Way more adjustable than what I need, but it makes sense now, and they look a quality bit of kit.
Good to see you recovered. I saw your review after "RON's". It's good that you have some points he did not cover. I appreciate your reviews! There are some points why I would not go from my fanatec v3 pedals to this one: 1. The ecosystem when you not only play on pc 2. The price which is for absolute enthusiasts. The pricing seems to be reasonable for what you get. But it's out of my personal range. 3. The adjustability: I personally like to swap brake and clutch because I 99% don't use it and so I can race more comfortably. It would have been a great idea from asetek if you can stick the pedals together in a way you want it. So I mean three separate pedals. Even the space from each pedal to the other could be adjustable. 4. For now I can hardly imagine that I get a way more realistic feeling of a cars brake because of lacking feedback. Maybe a full motion rig with these pedals are the real deal. Brake feedback is a common problem of simracing in general (in my opinion) This is what fanatec tried to do with the vibration motors. Which by the way I can hardly recognize while racing. They are too weak. This is what I hope for the next clubsport fanatec pedals: A brake pedal like the asetek but with strong vibration motors which not only vibrate when abs is active or when the brake bring the tires to block. The vibration needs to be seamless from zero to 100% and not just on or off to give you more feedback. I hope you can imagine what I wanna say. All in all it seems that asetek have done a great job with these pedals but still have room for improvements to do a v2. So thanks for your review and your honest opinion.
I totally agree about lacking braking feedback, IRL we feel deceleration... this just isn't possible to simulate as we are never moving in the first place, braking always feels totally dead to me, best we have is a pedal that feel realistic.
Great review Karl, you seem to be the only one who has highlighted the discrepancy between how Asetek describe how a real race car brakes work and how the Asetek Invicta pedals actually work. According to Dave Cam's review the initial squish of the rubbers is giving at least 50% brake application ( stiffer rubbers go 70% and above ) and only then does the pedal become "solid". I'm pretty sure you don't get 50% brake on a race car just by taking up the slack in the brake system. I am in no way saying that they are a dodgy set of pedals, I think what they have done is really good where it allows a 2 stage pedal that you can feel distinctly.
Thanks Paul! Yeah a few reviews I've seen have got confused about how the stages work, if you pop on Aseteks channel they clearly show the first stage is the elastomer which does nothing as far as actual braking and then the second stage is rock hard with no movement (pad to disc), it also explains this in the user guide but maybe Dave and others didn't read it?! lol But yes they are a great pedal set and really well made! :)
Great review as always, Karl! 👍👍👍 @28:48: RE: noise of clutch & throttle pedal, and the reason they gave: I call BS; they didn't even notice this, I reckon, and only now realize it's a problem. My prediction: they will include a set of $0.05 stops in the package and give that option to install. They will likely include this either during the pre-order period, or just afterward.
From Dave Cam I understood that the travel is used to set 80% of braking and when you hit the end of that travel you have pure pressure to reach 100 if needed. And this is what gives you 2 stages of braking. And this makes sense to me.
No mate, watch the Asetek video where Andre explains the two stages, paying particular attention from 1min 10 sec onwards. th-cam.com/video/T5p50ZYylSc/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=AsetekSimSports
You made some good points : (edited after purchase) - we would need a quick release pedal system to change the pedals if we want to drive a street car, another idea to make us pay twice, lol (ed: the softer elastomere and the brake pressure can be quickly calibered to anybody's strenght, Not perfect, but enough adaptation for a little bit softer breaking for less strong people ) Also if the cockpit is not that sturdy, (the GTTrack from Nextlevelracing started bending above 50bar pressure, in the front and in the seat!) At first try I wanted to send back the pedals, lol. BTW, one screw hole on the right back can't be used on the GTTrack, but the fixing is robust. - the braking delay looks too large anyway, in an optimal real situation, the brakes are so close to the metal disk that they may keep touching them when stopping, it's the tiny oscillations of the disks/wheel when the car ( or the bike) is moving that pushes the brakes away. - Instead of the oil filled cylinder (btw it's not real dot4 brake fluid, which is quite agressive, if it leaks) why not use a pressure measurement system, I guess, because manometers mainly use a fluid, and they can't risk to use mercury, can they ? One Point missing : the force required to push that Asetec break pedal for realism. I measured being able to push at a max of 160/170kg with either leg, but above I would say 120kg, I loose a lot of control to calibrate the strength. Racing cars may not have a servo power assistance, but they have a manual pedal ratio, at 6:1 if they push at 100kg, the effect on the brakes is 600kg, That would be about 150kg on each wheel and still keep control for a little more or less. At 150kg max. force, it would generate 300kg on each wheel. (Their seems no pedal ratio here, even if a lower hole is present on the brake to shift the pivot point) The manual is quite superficial.. Finally no one mentions the weight : Only 3Kg ? (5kg with the clutch) Compared to the 8-11kg Pedalss of Fanatec and Heusinkveld In a motion rig this may become relevant. The way the USB cable is fixed is a shame. The tiny plastic broke of immediately... But there is a possibility to put it trough holes under the brake and the clutch an tie it there so it can't be torn off. They need to find a better solution. And the tightly curved cable out of the brake cylinder is doomed to break, I hadn't even used my pedals, and the shielding inside already became visible... (BTW - the noise of metal is easy to fix, just tape one metal or use an anti slip rubber) (I had some issues to make in work with Project cars 2, somehow it conflicted with the wheel, I had to use combined pedals)
Thanks for the review Karl. I get interested in these pedals in comparison to load cell Huskinveld Sprints. I wanted to address what you were saying about that few mm travel in the break pedal. As you mentioned the behaviour here is to mimic the behaviour from the real life and the break disks travel. As you mentioned "this is sim racing, do we need that? if you want to be competitive this dead zone could affect your performance". It is the fair point but the real question is: why do you sim race? And I guess depending on the person we ask the answers would be different. There are people who want to be the fastest in the virtual world and would do anything what is possible to achieve that (i.e. people do use paddle shifters in the cars which have H-patern shifter in real life - realisc? not so much, can that make you faster? I believe so). However, there is also a large group of people who seek the immersion where replicating real life behaviour. Then for such group this disk travel simulation would be a blessing. However, the most important thing is that... to know if the Product A or Product B is for you, the reviews like yours is a very useful source of knowledge. So thank you for doing that
Karl absolutely loved your little discussion about the lack of any need for a delayed breaking peddle. Karl do you have an email address for questions about a newbie setting up a first sim set up please
I'm glad I found your review! I've been mulling over getting these pedals, and while they do look nice and very well constructed, the noise is a bit of a deal-breaker for me. I may still get them and come up with an easily changeable rubber damper to reduce the noise and can be swapped when worn from compression or becoming brittle. I like to tinker, so I may give them a shot. Will definitely have to get used to sim racing with shoes on though.
Good stuff!! I'm putting the gap in there...i'll never drive a race car, but if you're like me, i am usually putting a little pressure on the brake anyway as i would irl. Great thought process, it took me down a road i wasn't expecting.
Its a good review. I think the presentation of asetek should be attached as well, because issues are discused there that wouldn t disorient the average viewer of what that product is really all about. A lot of things mentioned in the comnents are deliberately out of focus of these petals, and why should they be since all other pedal sets in the market can deliver that. So it is a product fot a specific target.. and i m glad for it.
An additional thought on the brake pedal - I don't think the realistic setup would necessarily disadvantage the sim racer with a braking delay as in real life the driver would setup the brake to take up the slack ahead of the corner.That would take an adjustment in style by the sim racer but if simulating real life is the goal, this should be a good thing.
Not being a real life race driver I wonder how easy that is to do without actually engaging the brakes just a little and starting to drag? Great point though Vincent! :) But again in sim racing we of course don't need to have that play/delay.
I own a set of Invicta S pedals and watched all of the TH-camr reviews before purchasing. Now that I have had time to test them out thoroughly I have come to the conclusion that so many TH-cam reviewers got these pedals entirely wrong and weren't setting them up and using them properly. Some were using a medium elastomer with a high bar so there was no way they were hitting the second stage. Others a hard elastomer with a low bar that was so low that they would never hit the second stage and on top of that adding in some slack for a deadzone. Then this review that is confusing the second stage with deadzone slack. It's no surprise Asetek released the elastomer kit because so many TH-cam reviewers were using these pedals incorrectly. At first I followed a very similar direction and had these pedals feeling exactly like my old HPP pedals which was great but then I was missing out on the second stage. After ordering the elastomer kit and using the super soft I was able to comfortably hit the second stage and then it all clicked - no more lock ups and my times got faster. Anyone who has these pedals don't be scared to use the softer elastomers and then work your way up to a hard one over time. The important thing is to comfortably hit the second stage without putting your back out and just at the point of a lock up at 70/80% pressure
Other way around mate... 1st stage is dead zone mechanical slack (as demonstrated by Andre in their own video) then the second stage is when breaking actually begins... this is perfect from a simulation point of view (replicating real life) but actually makes you a little slower as there is a dead zone when there does not have to be in a sim.
@@KarlGosling i think you've picked up what Andre said slightly incorrectly because otherwise as you pointed out what's the purpose of stage 1. You would just set it up to completely ignore any input at stage 1 and only at stage 2. The fact that every youtuber has setup the combo of elastomer and bar settings so differently and Andre had to post a how to video on setup along with an elastomer kit shows there's a lot of wires getting crossed. I think the problem would be solved with Andre showing different 'correct' ways to setup the pedals for people with varying degrees of leg strength, rather than just a 'this is the way it is in real race cars'.
This review had the info I was looking for concerning these pedals, that seems great, alas, but obviously has some issues, most prominent being noise. Anyone else feels the they're too noisy?
Great review Karl. Saw it via asetek email link and have just subscribed based on it and will check out your work in the coming days. On the pedals, I agree that they are an interesting mix of great engineering and possibly unnecessary complications. Sim racing is a hobby for me and I appreciate well engineered things but value for money is key. Took me ages to upgrade my t300 kit to tlcm pedals but certainly happy with the value for money gain they gave me. I know they are toys compared to something like these, but I've replaced the two main springs with solid plastic spacers and use the white spring in the centre to allow tiny travel and allow the pedals to be assembled. I guess my observation is that my end result is 10-15mm travel then rock hard pedal against 100kg load cell (which I run at about 80% of max) which is sort of what you were discussing and that the hydraulic part of this system might be overkill or unnecessary. Final thought is that yes these pedals are a top quality product, and I understand from my engineering background the work that has gone into them, but for me they are too expensive for the gains they would give me. Now if they come up with a variant with a load cell instead, but keep the other build quality and make them significantly cheaper (maybe 750usd max for the 3 pedals) then I would be seriously tempted! Anyway I look forward to catching up on your other content and glad your eye is OK! (You dodged a bullet there......) Cheers Greg M
Thanks Greg, agree mate pedals are expensive and they do not add much in the way of value beyond a certain point. Asetek are bringing a cheaper set to market so we'll see how they are too :)
@@KarlGosling it depends, because “value” means a lot of things to a lot of people. I don’t think in this case it’s about lap time, even though it could help of course. It’s more about the realistic feel, whatever that is. However, most of us sim racers won’t ever step in a real racing car, so how realistic does it need to be. If lap time is value then a cheaper set would definitely do the job or using this set without the initial travel like you said.
Best review of those pedals! Your point with the brake pedal is good and shows, that the marketing bla doesnt make sense at all. Would you say that the two-stage brake is actually better or an advantage over normal loadcell pedals? And the point about the dead zone and bump stops is spot on. TY for this review!
Thanks mate! :) The two stage will not give you an advantage no, but it is 100% more realistic than some other pedals. A loadcell is just another type of pressure sensor and has no bearing on the way the pedal actually works, Asetek could just as easily have used a loadcell to measure the pressure as could many others who make hydraulic brake pedals.
Very nice review Karl. Like your critical side as well after watching some of the other reviews too. You bring up many very valid points. At least they have adressed the bumpstops on the pedal return with some rubber bits under the adjustment screws, but theres still things to improve and I like you brought them up. And your discussion about the brakes really got me thinking as well. Didnt look at it that way before, but youre right, with all this in mind, the hydraulic part does seem kind of gimmicky more than it is already. Id still consider these if I had the money for them, but theres still ways to improve them.
With lately getting my first rig, my next upgrade will be my pedals. The CSL Elite LC's don't cut it anymore. These reviews couldn't have come at a better time, as I wanted to go for something like the HE Ultimates, without the clutch as I never use it. The 1 thing that is bothering me is indeed the short throw of the brake on the Asetek's brake, but I feel like there could be an easy option in the software from Asetek to have 2 seperate profiles, 1 where you use the little bit of play for more casual games, or stuff like road cars. But when switching to a racecar, you can get rid of it. Pricewise these would be amazing, even if I can't get them for the discounted pre-order price, which if I could I'd just get the clutch with it anyway for the future. I hate being idealistic, learning more about high end pedals makes me grow away from the Fanatec V3 pedals more and more, I want the best possible feeling. Thanks for the great review Karl!
Dude I've tried them all. V3s with damper, sprints, ultimates, hydraulics and now on to pneumatics. The hydraulic and ultimates are incredibly hard. There's very little travel and they didn't feel good. The sprints were a bit better, my pneumatics are perfect for me but tbh there's not a lot of difference to the V3s. It's an expensive mistake when you get it wrong as I know so just be sure what you actually want and don't go by what reviews say is the most realistic or "best".
You are in the exact same position as me, I was considering either ultimates or these, these we're edging it and the deal breaker was the lack of travel adjustability. I've tried an F4 brake and there was no movement, it was just pressure. I got use it it while testing. Which got me thinking exactly what Carl said, is the hydro even necessary. I thought a work a around would be to as you said have it set up like the F4 for race cars and adjust to softest settings for road. They would have nailed both setups if the value could extend more and more extensive options of rubber stops. Has have made your choice since?
@@torbinzix1 Well with the reviews of the Forte pedals I've been reconsidering a lot again, they got the same design filosofy as the Invictas and build quality as well. They will bring out more specific brake kits for that too, and they will make an upgrade kit so you still can go to hydro if you wish to. Seems to me like they'd be the obvious choice for the average sim racer like you and me.
@@rickdubbink mate your a lifesaver, I told they were a lesser version so I continued looking, but if that's the case then that makes a lot of sense. Appreciate that 🙏🏾
Nice review, but I doubt the initial travel is doing nothing IRL. The brake-pads are usually very close the the disk, less than a millimeter. Isn't it more like the initial travel compresses the fluid, scratching the discs while the resistance comes from getting full compression of the fluid and mechanical parts. I have not driven any racecar yet, but that's kind of how the hydraulic disc-brakes of bicycle works and the principle seems quite similar. How much the, let's say, bite-point engage the brake depends on the brake-pads as well. Some are very grippy and can easily lock up the front-wheel and some allowing more slip are more easy to modulate.
No mate, the fluid does not compress at (if it does it needs changing or bleeding), all you feel is mechanical play/clearance and pad/caliper travel right up to the point they start to touch the discs.
@@KarlGosling Sorry mate, but there is certainly no 2 cm deadzone in a properly maintained racing-brake, but there is a deadzone and actually there are 3 zones. There are enough videos with pedal cams around to prove that racecars still brake when easing off the pedal like the first hit I found called "What Is Trail Braking And Why Aren't You Doing It?"
Personally I like as much travel in my accelerator as possible, more usable range for various throttle position, turns where you need to hold throttle like the carousel at road America, you can really hone in your hold.
If they are trying for a 'realistic' brake pedal then there must be a simulated gap/space before the brake activates. If you wind out the gap then it would be quicker acting, but now not realistic.
Every onboard footcam I've seen of irl racing the pedals have a lot of travel, especially gt3 cars, the rock hard short travel for race cars is a myth regarding modern racecars it seems
Interesting, I'm going to look for some footage! Asetek run a GT3 car and thats what these are based on, if you look on their channel they get into the car and show the pedal movement. i have no experience with real race cars myself but I've fitted plenty of race pedal boxes to street cars and they all have almost no travel and then a hard pedal because I remove the servo.
@@KarlGosling another thing I thought of is that some people are legitimately training to drive real race and rally cars and setup their sim equipment to suit. Others want to just be comfortable in their own home in whatever conditions let them spend more time in the rig. And yet others like you discussed, just want the competitive edge. Then there are all the shades and grains inbetween these 🙂
@@KarlGosling that’s annoying! Here in Aus they have direct distribution and once you put your name on the list it’s around a 2 week wait. They are also cheaper than the Sprints here. Global economics at its finest! Let me know if you want me to send you a set 😂
I reckon I'd get on with these. I have the hardest bushes in my load cell pedal and a bit of dead zone factored in for the initial pedal travel. At that pre order price It would be hard to justify buying a high end load cell set.
Hallo, I'm pretty sure that the hydraulic system, in this case, is there for a better resolution given by a better measuring system. It is easier to have a way better resolution with a pressure sensor measuring the pressure on a fluid than a random load cell measuring the pressure out of a metal rod.
Very nice review Karl , what I'm hearing in between the lines is that those pedals might be a little bit "over engineered" for Sim Racing, am I wrong saying this ? What is very strange to me is to put hydraulic technology but without any travel it is just pressing on a classical loadcell without rubbers in the end ; hydraulic in that case is just adding potential failure and reliability issues, don't you think ?
Over engineered might not be the right phrase, but there's certainly simpler ways to achieve the same result... these ones at least do a great job of replicating what happens in real life (as much as is possible of course). So as you keep pressing the pedal after the initial travel stops you are pressurising the hydraulic chamber where the pressure sensor is, there is no load cell. If they are designed and built well reliability is not an issue, they have tested them to over a million operations (or something crazy like that, I can't remember the exact number).
Great review, feels very honest and candid. I think the hydraulic system is still beneficial over a load cell since fluid can't compress and the sensor is thus measuring your exact change in pressure, whereas a loadcell relies on the flex of the material to measure pressure. No data to back this up, just a hunch. I have a question about the clutch... I really want a clutch with a realistic bite point like this, but I also use my gas and clutch as a rudder in my flight sim. Can you adjust the clutch so that it feels very linear, similar to the gas pedal, so that it can be used as a rudder? I can't think of a way to mount rudder AND racing pedals to my rig without spending 10min swapping each time I want to fly, so I need my race pedals to do both. Thanks so much!
I don't think my foot would not be able to tell the difference. Yes you can, it will still feel heavier than the throttle but you can adjust it to be linear.
yeah that brake defently a deal breaker for me, and simagic using springs instead of bumpers also a deal breaker for me, still trying to find the perfect pedals
You really has me thinking as you were putting your theories out there as food for thought. Some very good points, by the way. Could it be that the reason no sim brake pedal has zero travel is so that the pedal arm itself doesn't flex and eventually bend and or break over time? Just a thought. Great review as always, Karl. I really thought I was going to order a set of these but after listening to you... I think I'll pass. The noise factor as well as race car feel brake has put me off. They are gorgeous and It pains me to cross them off my list, I really hoped they would be the "perfect" pedal set. At least for me. I'm still considering the SimForge set up though. Until you talk me out of those , too! Just joking.
Great Video with exactly some questions that came up to my mind after having bought the pedals and how to set them up. One question I still have is at follows: You said, that these pedals are very close to a real race car. But I doubt that the force that is necessary to overcome the "initial play" in a real race car is as high as compressing the elastomer on the invictas to reach their "2nd stage". With the softest rubber you need around 30 bar which is around 57 kg of force! With the stiffest elastomer you need around 110 kg of force only to remove the "initial play" = to overcome the "1st stag" (numbers from the homepage of Asetek). With the Heusinkveld Ultimate + you need around 15 kg to compress the first spring which is their "1st stage" which is in my eyes way more "realistic" as the Invicta numbers. What are your thoughts on this?
Love the review. Does the software allow to calibrate out the initial travel (squishing the rubber to mechanical bump stop) and set the travel as deadzone? Thanks!
These seem really focused on uncompromised performance. I don't think they are for everyone though and most definitely not for me. I like my brake to be more on the softer side and my clutch light.
Hi Karl, thanks first of all for the review in the usual high quality :) I would be interested if you would recommend a switch if one is already on a "high quality" pedal set like VRS pedals? I definitely prefeer a stiffer brake pedal for general and no streetcar feel :) Really really nice and interesting discussion at 17min about the brake by the way. So true.
Great video, very informative. I've just ordered these to replace my he ultimates, well to see if they will be able to. My only worry is the mounting. I'm seeing alot of people say the holes are different to current base plates. Do you have any u go on this ?
Would these be good for iracing Sprint Cars? Its all i plan on racing and would like high end pedals but dont have a clue what to get?????? The Simicube Active Pedals look like next level but im not sure i can stomach $4425.00 for a two pedal set
So now that youve tested both these, and the new meca evo hydraulic pedals. WHich do you prefer? If were looking for most authentic brake feel? Ive been using the simtrecs pro pedals and have been considering trying a hydraulic pedal
Love your review Karl. Sounded like you hated them if you read between the lines. The other reviews don't explain this kind of thing. I bought another brands hydraulics and hated them and these sound very similar.
@@KarlGosling I'm confused. Why do you think they are better than a load cell with just extremely firm elastomers? Since it sounds like their travel is close to non existent so it's not like you can tell how smooth they are or the hydraulic system. Maybe I just misunderstood your review because I just don't get from it what you think makes these good apart from that they feel realistic which is achievable with any super hard load cell.
These are pedals for simulator training for real racing. Alonso wants the brake to be in his f1 car and not set it up to compete in sim racing for amateurs who never drive a real race car? But for all of us mortals who want to be as fast as possible. Yes, then this is paying a lot for something you don't need. Then should be pressure sensor only without any movement. Then you need to pay for this brake pedal.
These look like super well-made nice pedals, but they are sporting a price point that reflects the build and then some as compared to many other offerings. As an old guy that grew up when many actual road cars still had manual brakes with no power boosters (what you over the big water are calling a servo) then having a short throw braking system which requires a heavy force to exert maximum braking pressure is not unknown to me. Try stopping say a 3500lb 1968 Dodge Charger with a 440 cid v-8 and drum brakes front and rear around from about 120mph (193kph for you metric folks) in a rapid manner! You young whipper snappers are spoiled having disc brakes. lol! Back to the pedals I do not see why a load cell set up could not be dialed in to work the exact same way as you are still just using pressure to make the measurement. With the pedal set up software again setting dead zones and brake application up to 100% as compared to measured pressure there is no reason that a much less expensive set of load cell pedals could not do the exact same thing at a much cheaper price point. I could maybe understand a hydraulic set system for someone on a more real life pro that was using a professional sim rig to duplicate as much as possible the actual set up they were racing but otherwise for the majority just playing racing games I do not see the justification for the added expense. At the end of the day once you reach a certain point for sim gear many people are buying it I think as much trying to increase their e-penis or to be perceived as being "serious" sim racers as the actual advantages that many of these products actually offer to their game lap times is minimal to 0. But again this is a hobby but honestly answer this, would you have bought these pedals with your own money to use or review if the company had not sent them to you free? In my opinion v3 pedals or something at that level or price point are the normal hobbyist level for somewhat serious casual gamers something like Heusinkveld Sprint pedals are for most more serious sim racers that really desire competing at higher levels, above that is the money is no object crowd I want it mainly because most consider it to be the best top of the line you can buy. Nice thorough video but I think these will be in a very small niche place in the market when the pre order price is $1000 for the 3 pedal set.
I can only imagine what stopping that was like with no servo assistance and drums all round! lol Would I spend £1000 on them? No, as I said in this review and pretty much every pedal review video I think all "high end" pedals are way overpriced for what they offer... But there's always people out there that will buy them! But saying that there is a night and day build quality difference between these and my V3's, also the clutch pedal feels so true to life whereas my V3 clutch is far too weak so you are getting something for your money, albeit not what I would call value.
So you're saying they actually do replicate real race car brake pedals? It's only the Nancy boys who expect a large amount of travel, vis-a-vis street cars?
These pedals look but unfortunately there $1700 for the 3 pedal set for before tax vs simagic $930 plus tax and on the simagic your able to adjust the spacing between the pedals a bit and more mounting options thought they need to workout the controller board mounting where as the asetek is really good.
22:08 it's almost as if some people want realism more than what's optimal... Which you know, is the whole point of a sim setup. To get as close to real life as possible...
WHAT GOOD IS MATCHING A CLUTCH BITE THAT YOU JUST SAID YOU CANT EVEN FEEL THE WHOLE POINT OF SIMULATION IS TO DOUBLE WHAT HAPPENS IN OUR CARS SO ITS WASTE OF TIME
@@KarlGosling well, you can see from the picture. Its the same design. They straight up copied it, like a few others as well actually. Kinda weird seeing this praised. Appreciate you calling the brake for what it is, though.
How would you compare these to the heusinkveld ultimates in the sense of which would be better for the more all arounder to simulate more types of cars ? Thank you as always for your time and information!
These literally only simulate a real race car brake, so for anything else you might be better off with different pedals, I've never used them but HEU seem to always be a good go to pedal set.
Damn bro! I had some debris from drop ceiling tiles get in my eye and scratch my cornea. Shit is no fun at all. I was supposed to be in class that night after work and emailed my professor, told him what happened and that I'd be drinking myself to sleep with a wet cloth over my eye, lol.
Great review Karl. You touched on some points the other reviewers didn't cover, especially on the break pedal. I always value your honest reviews, and I actually feel you are telling the truth how you feel it. I'm not so sure about some of the other "channels", even though they claim to totally independent and unbiased... Keep up the great work.
I appreciate that thank you!
I think this is one of the best videos I have seen of yours! I love how you explain the way race brakes work. While you were talking about the adjustable play in the brake pedal and why it's not needed in sim racing it occurred to me that a lot of pro drivers use sim racing now to learn new tracks so having the ability to make these feel like your real life McLaren GT3 car or whatever you race in real life would really help with learning your braking points.
Thanks mate! Yes thats a perfect example of where that would come in useful.
Wow, I absolutely loved the engineering break down of the differences between real race cars and street car braking, etc. I literally just installed this set today and now “get it” regarding how the respond. Little more seat time and I should be getting more from the set. Again, great review.
Thanks Kerry!
@@KarlGosling I'm loving these new pedals!!
Nice review Karl. As many have said, you touched some great points and shared some interesting thoughts. In relation to those thoughts, about the "0 delay brake", I completely agree with that point of view as far as fast/alien simracing goes, but what Asetek says in one of their product videos is that they intend this pedals to be more of a training tool for those who drive real race cars and less of a simulation device to input pressure values in to a game. At the end, as most things in life, this is about points of view, those who want to be the fastest on the sim, and those who want to feel like they are in the real thing without spending hundreds of thousands of "moneys". Good work!
Watched 4 reviews today. Yours Karl is the only one that didn't try to hide the noise they make. I bet the next one's they design are whisper quiet.
Actually Wills review showed the production models and they do have a rubber bumpstop on the pedal return under the adjustmentscrews to reduce noise. Still think there needs to be something at full lock as well for the same reasons Karl metioned.
I think they said (in an email to me) they are only doing those for Oz customers, I'm not sure why though?!
Great explanations Karl. I hope your eye problem is sorted quickly. I very much like the Asetec 'high end' design philosophy of being 'fully inclusive' in that you are not expected to pay more money for add on options in the hope of improving performance like some other manufacturers. So while other manufacturers initial 'buy in' price may appear good value it can end up costing much more.
Love the review especially the interesting insights on brake and clutch pedals. I hope they start shipping the pre-orders soon!
Good review Karl, makes a change to hear from someone that knows what the pedals are attached to.
Around 20 years ago I got to drive a formula first car at Silverstone (not on the gp circuit, they have a small training circuit) .
The brakes work just like this, tiny initial take up then solid. Took a bit of getting used to but work really well and incredibly controllable.
That's on a race car where you don't judge braking so much by now hard you press but feeling the deceleration g -force in your entire body, the sound of the tyres and feeling the tyres interaction with the track through vibrations coming back to the brake pedal through the fluid.
In sim racing all we have is sound so have become reliant on pedal feel and muscle memory to create a way of controlling our braking force.
Whilst it was an amazing experience driving those single seaters, there is no way I could do a 2 or 3 sim races in an evening with that brake pedal and not suffer the following day.
Your 100% spot on with sim racing, we have no feeling of braking (deceleration or negative G) at all, it's what I miss most from real life and what takes lots of practice to get used to, always flying off track at the first corner in the early days! 😆
That coupled with no real accurate feeling of speed is why sim racing will never be able to replicate real life.
I've watched a lot of videos now about these pedals and pre-ordered them. I was confused initially as well about the elastomer being the play between disc and brake. But this is not exactly how they meant it to be. The "play" is adjusted with giving a bit of slack between the elastomer and the orange stop. But when the elastomer starts to squeeze the car is already supposed to be braking and gives you a nice feeling during trail braking. The second stage is only for hard braking before hairpins after a long straight for example. Asetek gave this explanation to one of the viewers on Will's review.
I agree with you. This review seems to contradict some of the other reviews i have watched that say the elastmoer allows for two-stage braking. Everyone agrees the pedals are hard, but this video makes it look like the pedals are like a light switch. On or off. Am I missing something?
@@simracergiddo Exactly, I think Karl misunderstood the "slack" bit (I did as well) and kept on going about this in the review. Unfortunately people only watching this review can be put off. I sound like an Asetek representative haha.
I was quoting what Asetek said in their own video from 3m 20sec onwards here chaps... th-cam.com/video/QjktKoChfX8/w-d-xo.html
He literally says the first stage does nothing and demonstrates a freely spinning wheel.
So either they have changed their mind or he got it wrong?! lol
But we are of course free to set it up as we like (do nothing or start braking as the elastomer is compressed), just as I explain in this review :)
Also @Giles it's not like light switch mate, the pressure sensor continues to measure your braking input after you reach the hard stop, you are still trying to compress the fluid in the cylinder, this of course does not compress and instead raises the pressure.
@@KarlGosling thanks Karl. i really appreciate you responding. but still leaves me confused if i should order them vs. the HE ultimate +, guess sometimes you need to take a punt and be happy with what you get :)
What a review Karl. The critical thinking regarding what is really needed, and in turn not needed, is a refreshing take to all the reviews out for these pedals. Was really on the fence on getting on the pre-order but after your review I think I will hold off even though the pre-order pricing is fair. Thanks for the well thought out review!
No problem mate, glad you found it helpful.
They are great pedals but the brake is the marmite factor with these.
Your real life automobile and especially race car parts knowledge definitely comes in handy on this review. There are not many sim racers that have that level of real-world knowledge as to be able to explain why the brake pedal may not work for some people or some will not prefer it, like the 20mm travel. This is as opposed to other reviewers who will just state this is the best brake pedal there is but likely won't be able to explain why exactly, at the same technical level. The noise level of all 3 pedals in use when they hit the end-stops, metal on metal, would likely be a deal killer for my house. I'am not a fan of not being able to space the pedals out (I know the pedal plates can be moved a bit). I also don't know if these are worth the money once out of pre-order pricing at $200 more total or $1198 USD, is Ultimate + territory for established brand. I appreciate them thinking outside the box with the design. We appreciate it a lot!
Thanks mate, I think the noise is a deal breaking for many, they are a very very nice pedal set though thats for sure! :)
Best pedals ive owned... such a great feel and realism to it
BRUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO SPOKE ABOUT THE BRAKE PROPERLY. Absolutely finally and EVERYONE who Sim races should literally watch this video from. @ 17:05 to @22:45
Kudos for mentioning the biting point on clutch launches!!! I have been thinking the same every time I hear one of your peers say that they don't feel it, but they dont think that way if they are only shifting quickly. If you race rally, street, or older cars (and some modern ones) you need to use the clutch properly to get going, never mind clutch kicks in rally and drifting!!! So much fun and sooo technical to get right (Escort mk2 I am looking at you). For me racing with the propper controls is 50% of simulation, that's also why I am trying to find the niche things, like a stationary push/pull paddle shifter for certain cars:P
Absolutely great explained. Thank you so much!
Thanks Alex!
It's funny that you mention the brake calibration. Last night I actually calibrated out the movement part and really like it that way. I have a little bit of play in the pedal where I can kind of rest and prepare my foot, and then press down and brake.
Yeah it makes sense to me mate.
Great insight on these Karl. Appreciate the detailed brake discussion and thoughts on certain aspects. Much better than Brake Good!! I just got my Simtrecs setup and dialed in the day before these blew up the internet, so a little buyers remorse was setting in. After watching this though, I've realized these are not for me. Feeling much better now. Thanks! ;)
Glad it was helpful Paul :)
I'm glad your eye is OK! Another great review. It makes me understand why these things cost what they do. Way more adjustable than what I need, but it makes sense now, and they look a quality bit of kit.
They really are very good Leo :)
Good to see you recovered.
I saw your review after "RON's". It's good that you have some points he did not cover.
I appreciate your reviews!
There are some points why I would not go from my fanatec v3 pedals to this one:
1. The ecosystem when you not only play on pc
2. The price which is for absolute enthusiasts. The pricing seems to be reasonable for what you get. But it's out of my personal range.
3. The adjustability: I personally like to swap brake and clutch because I 99% don't use it and so I can race more comfortably.
It would have been a great idea from asetek if you can stick the pedals together in a way you want it. So I mean three separate pedals.
Even the space from each pedal to the other could be adjustable.
4. For now I can hardly imagine that I get a way more realistic feeling of a cars brake because of lacking feedback. Maybe a full motion rig with these pedals are the real deal. Brake feedback is a common problem of simracing in general (in my opinion)
This is what fanatec tried to do with the vibration motors. Which by the way I can hardly recognize while racing. They are too weak.
This is what I hope for the next clubsport fanatec pedals: A brake pedal like the asetek but with strong vibration motors which not only vibrate when abs is active or when the brake bring the tires to block. The vibration needs to be seamless from zero to 100% and not just on or off to give you more feedback. I hope you can imagine what I wanna say.
All in all it seems that asetek have done a great job with these pedals but still have room for improvements to do a v2.
So thanks for your review and your honest opinion.
I totally agree about lacking braking feedback, IRL we feel deceleration... this just isn't possible to simulate as we are never moving in the first place, braking always feels totally dead to me, best we have is a pedal that feel realistic.
I always learn something tangible when watching your videos whether it's a about the product or something else 🤯👏🏾
Hope you're eye is better 😎👌🏾
I appreciate that thanks mate! :)
Great review Karl, you seem to be the only one who has highlighted the discrepancy between how Asetek describe how a real race car brakes work and how the Asetek Invicta pedals actually work. According to Dave Cam's review the initial squish of the rubbers is giving at least 50% brake application ( stiffer rubbers go 70% and above ) and only then does the pedal become "solid". I'm pretty sure you don't get 50% brake on a race car just by taking up the slack in the brake system. I am in no way saying that they are a dodgy set of pedals, I think what they have done is really good where it allows a 2 stage pedal that you can feel distinctly.
Thanks Paul!
Yeah a few reviews I've seen have got confused about how the stages work, if you pop on Aseteks channel they clearly show the first stage is the elastomer which does nothing as far as actual braking and then the second stage is rock hard with no movement (pad to disc), it also explains this in the user guide but maybe Dave and others didn't read it?! lol
But yes they are a great pedal set and really well made! :)
Great review as always, Karl! 👍👍👍
@28:48: RE: noise of clutch & throttle pedal, and the reason they gave: I call BS; they didn't even notice this, I reckon, and only now realize it's a problem. My prediction: they will include a set of $0.05 stops in the package and give that option to install. They will likely include this either during the pre-order period, or just afterward.
From Dave Cam I understood that the travel is used to set 80% of braking and when you hit the end of that travel you have pure pressure to reach 100 if needed. And this is what gives you 2 stages of braking. And this makes sense to me.
No mate, watch the Asetek video where Andre explains the two stages, paying particular attention from 1min 10 sec onwards.
th-cam.com/video/T5p50ZYylSc/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=AsetekSimSports
You made some good points : (edited after purchase)
- we would need a quick release pedal system to change the pedals if we want to drive a street car, another idea to make us pay twice, lol
(ed: the softer elastomere and the brake pressure can be quickly calibered to anybody's strenght,
Not perfect, but enough adaptation for a little bit softer breaking for less strong people )
Also if the cockpit is not that sturdy, (the GTTrack from Nextlevelracing started bending above 50bar pressure, in the front and in the seat!)
At first try I wanted to send back the pedals, lol.
BTW, one screw hole on the right back can't be used on the GTTrack, but the fixing is robust.
- the braking delay looks too large anyway,
in an optimal real situation, the brakes are so close to the metal disk that they may keep touching them when stopping,
it's the tiny oscillations of the disks/wheel when the car ( or the bike) is moving that pushes the brakes away.
- Instead of the oil filled cylinder (btw it's not real dot4 brake fluid, which is quite agressive, if it leaks)
why not use a pressure measurement system, I guess, because manometers mainly use a fluid, and they can't risk to use mercury, can they ?
One Point missing : the force required to push that Asetec break pedal for realism.
I measured being able to push at a max of 160/170kg with either leg, but above I would say 120kg, I loose a lot of control to calibrate the strength.
Racing cars may not have a servo power assistance, but they have a manual pedal ratio, at 6:1 if they push at 100kg, the effect on the brakes is 600kg,
That would be about 150kg on each wheel and still keep control for a little more or less. At 150kg max. force, it would generate 300kg on each wheel.
(Their seems no pedal ratio here, even if a lower hole is present on the brake to shift the pivot point)
The manual is quite superficial..
Finally no one mentions the weight : Only 3Kg ? (5kg with the clutch)
Compared to the 8-11kg Pedalss of Fanatec and Heusinkveld
In a motion rig this may become relevant.
The way the USB cable is fixed is a shame. The tiny plastic broke of immediately...
But there is a possibility to put it trough holes under the brake and the clutch an tie it there so it can't be torn off.
They need to find a better solution.
And the tightly curved cable out of the brake cylinder is doomed to break, I hadn't even used my pedals, and the shielding inside already became visible...
(BTW - the noise of metal is easy to fix, just tape one metal or use an anti slip rubber)
(I had some issues to make in work with Project cars 2, somehow it conflicted with the wheel, I had to use combined pedals)
Thanks for the review Karl. I get interested in these pedals in comparison to load cell Huskinveld Sprints. I wanted to address what you were saying about that few mm travel in the break pedal. As you mentioned the behaviour here is to mimic the behaviour from the real life and the break disks travel. As you mentioned "this is sim racing, do we need that? if you want to be competitive this dead zone could affect your performance". It is the fair point but the real question is: why do you sim race? And I guess depending on the person we ask the answers would be different. There are people who want to be the fastest in the virtual world and would do anything what is possible to achieve that (i.e. people do use paddle shifters in the cars which have H-patern shifter in real life - realisc? not so much, can that make you faster? I believe so). However, there is also a large group of people who seek the immersion where replicating real life behaviour. Then for such group this disk travel simulation would be a blessing.
However, the most important thing is that... to know if the Product A or Product B is for you, the reviews like yours is a very useful source of knowledge. So thank you for doing that
Thanks mate totally agree with you :)
Karl absolutely loved your little discussion about the lack of any need for a delayed breaking peddle.
Karl do you have an email address for questions about a newbie setting up a first sim set up please
Thanks Mark.
Sorry no I don't, any questions can be here in the comments though (a new comment, I will not see additional ones here).
I'm glad I found your review! I've been mulling over getting these pedals, and while they do look nice and very well constructed, the noise is a bit of a deal-breaker for me. I may still get them and come up with an easily changeable rubber damper to reduce the noise and can be swapped when worn from compression or becoming brittle. I like to tinker, so I may give them a shot. Will definitely have to get used to sim racing with shoes on though.
Yeah a simple self adhesive rubber "foot" would do just fine.
Good stuff!! I'm putting the gap in there...i'll never drive a race car, but if you're like me, i am usually putting a little pressure on the brake anyway as i would irl. Great thought process, it took me down a road i wasn't expecting.
Thanks mate, was a fun review and good to stimulate new thoughts and ideas!
@@KarlGosling i just need them to take my money now!
Very good point on the break pedal and Bp system .
Very nice review, hope asetek will bring out a pair of loadcell pedals too
Great insight regarding the brake pedal. Never considered this
They are designed for racing drivers who training in a simulation. That's why there's the little play in the breakpadel.
They are designed to be authentic in feeling, their market is everybody not just race drivers.
luckily you kept your eyes, next time please use safety goggles
Very lucky mate! I have now bought a pair for home use.
These are still on offer at Murray motorsport if anyone is thinking of getting them. I’ve just ordered a set now
Its a good review.
I think the presentation of asetek should be attached as well, because issues are discused there that wouldn t disorient the average viewer of what that product is really all about.
A lot of things mentioned in the comnents are deliberately out of focus of these petals, and why should they be since all other pedal sets in the market can deliver that.
So it is a product fot a specific target.. and i m glad for it.
Very informative piece Karl. 👏
Thanks Barry!
An additional thought on the brake pedal - I don't think the realistic setup would necessarily disadvantage the sim racer with a braking delay as in real life the driver would setup the brake to take up the slack ahead of the corner.That would take an adjustment in style by the sim racer but if simulating real life is the goal, this should be a good thing.
Not being a real life race driver I wonder how easy that is to do without actually engaging the brakes just a little and starting to drag? Great point though Vincent! :) But again in sim racing we of course don't need to have that play/delay.
I own a set of Invicta S pedals and watched all of the TH-camr reviews before purchasing. Now that I have had time to test them out thoroughly I have come to the conclusion that so many TH-cam reviewers got these pedals entirely wrong and weren't setting them up and using them properly. Some were using a medium elastomer with a high bar so there was no way they were hitting the second stage. Others a hard elastomer with a low bar that was so low that they would never hit the second stage and on top of that adding in some slack for a deadzone. Then this review that is confusing the second stage with deadzone slack.
It's no surprise Asetek released the elastomer kit because so many TH-cam reviewers were using these pedals incorrectly.
At first I followed a very similar direction and had these pedals feeling exactly like my old HPP pedals which was great but then I was missing out on the second stage. After ordering the elastomer kit and using the super soft I was able to comfortably hit the second stage and then it all clicked - no more lock ups and my times got faster.
Anyone who has these pedals don't be scared to use the softer elastomers and then work your way up to a hard one over time. The important thing is to comfortably hit the second stage without putting your back out and just at the point of a lock up at 70/80% pressure
Other way around mate... 1st stage is dead zone mechanical slack (as demonstrated by Andre in their own video) then the second stage is when breaking actually begins... this is perfect from a simulation point of view (replicating real life) but actually makes you a little slower as there is a dead zone when there does not have to be in a sim.
@@KarlGosling i think you've picked up what Andre said slightly incorrectly because otherwise as you pointed out what's the purpose of stage 1. You would just set it up to completely ignore any input at stage 1 and only at stage 2. The fact that every youtuber has setup the combo of elastomer and bar settings so differently and Andre had to post a how to video on setup along with an elastomer kit shows there's a lot of wires getting crossed. I think the problem would be solved with Andre showing different 'correct' ways to setup the pedals for people with varying degrees of leg strength, rather than just a 'this is the way it is in real race cars'.
This review had the info I was looking for concerning these pedals, that seems great, alas, but obviously has some issues, most prominent being noise. Anyone else feels the they're too noisy?
Great bit on the clutch, many over look that!
They sure do!
ty for the good video and I'm glade your looking good. feel a little bit better.
Thank you!
Great review Karl. Saw it via asetek email link and have just subscribed based on it and will check out your work in the coming days.
On the pedals, I agree that they are an interesting mix of great engineering and possibly unnecessary complications. Sim racing is a hobby for me and I appreciate well engineered things but value for money is key.
Took me ages to upgrade my t300 kit to tlcm pedals but certainly happy with the value for money gain they gave me. I know they are toys compared to something like these, but I've replaced the two main springs with solid plastic spacers and use the white spring in the centre to allow tiny travel and allow the pedals to be assembled.
I guess my observation is that my end result is 10-15mm travel then rock hard pedal against 100kg load cell (which I run at about 80% of max) which is sort of what you were discussing and that the hydraulic part of this system might be overkill or unnecessary.
Final thought is that yes these pedals are a top quality product, and I understand from my engineering background the work that has gone into them, but for me they are too expensive for the gains they would give me. Now if they come up with a variant with a load cell instead, but keep the other build quality and make them significantly cheaper (maybe 750usd max for the 3 pedals) then I would be seriously tempted!
Anyway I look forward to catching up on your other content and glad your eye is OK! (You dodged a bullet there......)
Cheers Greg M
Thanks Greg, agree mate pedals are expensive and they do not add much in the way of value beyond a certain point.
Asetek are bringing a cheaper set to market so we'll see how they are too :)
@@KarlGosling it depends, because “value” means a lot of things to a lot of people. I don’t think in this case it’s about lap time, even though it could help of course. It’s more about the realistic feel, whatever that is. However, most of us sim racers won’t ever step in a real racing car, so how realistic does it need to be. If lap time is value then a cheaper set would definitely do the job or using this set without the initial travel like you said.
Best review of those pedals! Your point with the brake pedal is good and shows, that the marketing bla doesnt make sense at all. Would you say that the two-stage brake is actually better or an advantage over normal loadcell pedals? And the point about the dead zone and bump stops is spot on. TY for this review!
Thanks mate! :) The two stage will not give you an advantage no, but it is 100% more realistic than some other pedals.
A loadcell is just another type of pressure sensor and has no bearing on the way the pedal actually works, Asetek could just as easily have used a loadcell to measure the pressure as could many others who make hydraulic brake pedals.
best reviews ❤
There is a lot travel kit available already for a while. So more travel is available.
Very nice review Karl. Like your critical side as well after watching some of the other reviews too. You bring up many very valid points. At least they have adressed the bumpstops on the pedal return with some rubber bits under the adjustment screws, but theres still things to improve and I like you brought them up. And your discussion about the brakes really got me thinking as well. Didnt look at it that way before, but youre right, with all this in mind, the hydraulic part does seem kind of gimmicky more than it is already. Id still consider these if I had the money for them, but theres still ways to improve them.
Thanks mate, they are a great pedal set but really got me thinking about what we need and don't need!
With lately getting my first rig, my next upgrade will be my pedals. The CSL Elite LC's don't cut it anymore. These reviews couldn't have come at a better time, as I wanted to go for something like the HE Ultimates, without the clutch as I never use it. The 1 thing that is bothering me is indeed the short throw of the brake on the Asetek's brake, but I feel like there could be an easy option in the software from Asetek to have 2 seperate profiles, 1 where you use the little bit of play for more casual games, or stuff like road cars. But when switching to a racecar, you can get rid of it.
Pricewise these would be amazing, even if I can't get them for the discounted pre-order price, which if I could I'd just get the clutch with it anyway for the future.
I hate being idealistic, learning more about high end pedals makes me grow away from the Fanatec V3 pedals more and more, I want the best possible feeling. Thanks for the great review Karl!
Dude I've tried them all. V3s with damper, sprints, ultimates, hydraulics and now on to pneumatics. The hydraulic and ultimates are incredibly hard. There's very little travel and they didn't feel good. The sprints were a bit better, my pneumatics are perfect for me but tbh there's not a lot of difference to the V3s. It's an expensive mistake when you get it wrong as I know so just be sure what you actually want and don't go by what reviews say is the most realistic or "best".
@@John-ok8ts thanks!
You are in the exact same position as me, I was considering either ultimates or these, these we're edging it and the deal breaker was the lack of travel adjustability.
I've tried an F4 brake and there was no movement, it was just pressure. I got use it it while testing. Which got me thinking exactly what Carl said, is the hydro even necessary.
I thought a work a around would be to as you said have it set up like the F4 for race cars and adjust to softest settings for road.
They would have nailed both setups if the value could extend more and more extensive options of rubber stops.
Has have made your choice since?
@@torbinzix1 Well with the reviews of the Forte pedals I've been reconsidering a lot again, they got the same design filosofy as the Invictas and build quality as well. They will bring out more specific brake kits for that too, and they will make an upgrade kit so you still can go to hydro if you wish to. Seems to me like they'd be the obvious choice for the average sim racer like you and me.
@@rickdubbink mate your a lifesaver, I told they were a lesser version so I continued looking, but if that's the case then that makes a lot of sense. Appreciate that 🙏🏾
Come for the review. Stay for the education!
The bit about the happy wife portion has me in tears laughing as it's soooooo true!!
It really is though isn't it, something we all have to consider! lol
Nice review, but I doubt the initial travel is doing nothing IRL. The brake-pads are usually very close the the disk, less than a millimeter. Isn't it more like the initial travel compresses the fluid, scratching the discs while the resistance comes from getting full compression of the fluid and mechanical parts. I have not driven any racecar yet, but that's kind of how the hydraulic disc-brakes of bicycle works and the principle seems quite similar. How much the, let's say, bite-point engage the brake depends on the brake-pads as well. Some are very grippy and can easily lock up the front-wheel and some allowing more slip are more easy to modulate.
No mate, the fluid does not compress at (if it does it needs changing or bleeding), all you feel is mechanical play/clearance and pad/caliper travel right up to the point they start to touch the discs.
@@KarlGosling Sorry mate, but there is certainly no 2 cm deadzone in a properly maintained racing-brake, but there is a deadzone and actually there are 3 zones. There are enough videos with pedal cams around to prove that racecars still brake when easing off the pedal like the first hit I found called "What Is Trail Braking And Why Aren't You Doing It?"
Excellent review!
Glad you liked it!
Great review (again), get well soon re. your eye. Ouch!
Cheers Nick!
Karl the Terminator with his bionic eye!
Thats actually what I thought when I first hurt it! lol
Personally I like as much travel in my accelerator as possible, more usable range for various throttle position, turns where you need to hold throttle like the carousel at road America, you can really hone in your hold.
I think within reason you can get used to most pedals regardless of travel... unless it's at the extremities of course! lol
If they are trying for a 'realistic' brake pedal then there must be a simulated gap/space before the brake activates. If you wind out the gap then it would be quicker acting, but now not realistic.
Exactly.
Every onboard footcam I've seen of irl racing the pedals have a lot of travel, especially gt3 cars, the rock hard short travel for race cars is a myth regarding modern racecars it seems
Interesting, I'm going to look for some footage!
Asetek run a GT3 car and thats what these are based on, if you look on their channel they get into the car and show the pedal movement.
i have no experience with real race cars myself but I've fitted plenty of race pedal boxes to street cars and they all have almost no travel and then a hard pedal because I remove the servo.
@@KarlGosling i'm glad your eye is ok, that could have been bad
You did touch on immersion vs competition. The two can be counterproductive to one another.
They sure can, motion is a perfect example of this!
@@KarlGosling another thing I thought of is that some people are legitimately training to drive real race and rally cars and setup their sim equipment to suit.
Others want to just be comfortable in their own home in whatever conditions let them spend more time in the rig.
And yet others like you discussed, just want the competitive edge.
Then there are all the shades and grains inbetween these 🙂
Love your reviews mate. Any chance you could review the VRS pedals?
Currently unavailable mate.
@@KarlGosling that’s annoying! Here in Aus they have direct distribution and once you put your name on the list it’s around a 2 week wait. They are also cheaper than the Sprints here. Global economics at its finest! Let me know if you want me to send you a set 😂
Great review. I’m just wondering if the baseplate fits my Playseat Formula Intelligence. Nice pedals, but the noise can be a dealbreaker.
I reckon I'd get on with these. I have the hardest bushes in my load cell pedal and a bit of dead zone factored in for the initial pedal travel. At that pre order price It would be hard to justify buying a high end load cell set.
Agreed mate!
how would it be different, though? Loadcell signal or this one makes no difference
Hallo, I'm pretty sure that the hydraulic system, in this case, is there for a better resolution given by a better measuring system.
It is easier to have a way better resolution with a pressure sensor measuring the pressure on a fluid than a random load cell measuring the pressure out of a metal rod.
No mate, it's there to be more realistic (both in operation and feel), there's plenty of resolution even with pot based setups.
Very nice review Karl , what I'm hearing in between the lines is that those pedals might be a little bit "over engineered" for Sim Racing, am I wrong saying this ?
What is very strange to me is to put hydraulic technology but without any travel it is just pressing on a classical loadcell without rubbers in the end ; hydraulic in that case is just adding potential failure and reliability issues, don't you think ?
Over engineered might not be the right phrase, but there's certainly simpler ways to achieve the same result... these ones at least do a great job of replicating what happens in real life (as much as is possible of course).
So as you keep pressing the pedal after the initial travel stops you are pressurising the hydraulic chamber where the pressure sensor is, there is no load cell.
If they are designed and built well reliability is not an issue, they have tested them to over a million operations (or something crazy like that, I can't remember the exact number).
Great review, feels very honest and candid. I think the hydraulic system is still beneficial over a load cell since fluid can't compress and the sensor is thus measuring your exact change in pressure, whereas a loadcell relies on the flex of the material to measure pressure. No data to back this up, just a hunch.
I have a question about the clutch... I really want a clutch with a realistic bite point like this, but I also use my gas and clutch as a rudder in my flight sim. Can you adjust the clutch so that it feels very linear, similar to the gas pedal, so that it can be used as a rudder? I can't think of a way to mount rudder AND racing pedals to my rig without spending 10min swapping each time I want to fly, so I need my race pedals to do both. Thanks so much!
I don't think my foot would not be able to tell the difference.
Yes you can, it will still feel heavier than the throttle but you can adjust it to be linear.
yeah that brake defently a deal breaker for me, and simagic using springs instead of bumpers also a deal breaker for me, still trying to find the perfect pedals
You really has me thinking as you were putting your theories out there as food for thought. Some very good points, by the way. Could it be that the reason no sim brake pedal has zero travel is so that the pedal arm itself doesn't flex and eventually bend and or break over time? Just a thought. Great review as always, Karl. I really thought I was going to order a set of these but after listening to you... I think I'll pass. The noise factor as well as race car feel brake has put me off. They are gorgeous and It pains me to cross them off my list, I really hoped they would be the "perfect" pedal set. At least for me. I'm still considering the SimForge set up though. Until you talk me out of those , too! Just joking.
lol They are a great pedal set but the brake pedal is not for everybody.
Great Video with exactly some questions that came up to my mind after having bought the pedals and how to set them up. One question I still have is at follows: You said, that these pedals are very close to a real race car. But I doubt that the force that is necessary to overcome the "initial play" in a real race car is as high as compressing the elastomer on the invictas to reach their "2nd stage". With the softest rubber you need around 30 bar which is around 57 kg of force! With the stiffest elastomer you need around 110 kg of force only to remove the "initial play" = to overcome the "1st stag" (numbers from the homepage of Asetek). With the Heusinkveld Ultimate + you need around 15 kg to compress the first spring which is their "1st stage" which is in my eyes way more "realistic" as the Invicta numbers. What are your thoughts on this?
Love the review.
Does the software allow to calibrate out the initial travel (squishing the rubber to mechanical bump stop) and set the travel as deadzone?
Thanks!
Yes mate it does.
Hydraulics are for more realistic and authentic movement which aids trail braking.
Great review Karl. How you finding them now? Mine are sat at home waiting on me. I'll be switching over from Heusinkveld Sprints
These seem really focused on uncompromised performance. I don't think they are for everyone though and most definitely not for me. I like my brake to be more on the softer side and my clutch light.
Agreed mate.
Not sure about that gap in the foot plate between throttle & brake
Not an issue for me mate.
@@KarlGosling 👍
Can you imagine how expensive these pedals would be if they included rubber limit stops? 😂
the best review
Hi Karl, thanks first of all for the review in the usual high quality :)
I would be interested if you would recommend a switch if one is already on a "high quality" pedal set like VRS pedals? I definitely prefeer a stiffer brake pedal for general and no streetcar feel :)
Really really nice and interesting discussion at 17min about the brake by the way. So true.
I've not used the VRS pedals so I couldn't say mate sorry.
@@KarlGosling No problem 😊
What wheelstand or cockpit would work well without drilling extra hole
Great video, very informative. I've just ordered these to replace my he ultimates, well to see if they will be able to. My only worry is the mounting. I'm seeing alot of people say the holes are different to current base plates. Do you have any u go on this ?
I used a base plate that I had to drill anyway so I don't actually know mate sorry.
Would these be good for iracing Sprint Cars? Its all i plan on racing and would like high end pedals but dont have a clue what to get?????? The Simicube Active Pedals look like next level but im not sure i can stomach $4425.00 for a two pedal set
To be honest mate any of the higher end pedals will be great IMO, once you spend over a certain amount they are all very good.
The way it works when you leave some slack in it reminds me of the Logitech pedals 😅
So now that youve tested both these, and the new meca evo hydraulic pedals. WHich do you prefer? If were looking for most authentic brake feel? Ive been using the simtrecs pro pedals and have been considering trying a hydraulic pedal
Thats really down to what type of pedal feel you want, Asetek is much harder for example.
Hi Karl. Where can I buy rubber end stops please? I've bought a pair and want to make them silent.
Love your review Karl. Sounded like you hated them if you read between the lines. The other reviews don't explain this kind of thing. I bought another brands hydraulics and hated them and these sound very similar.
No mate not at all, I think they are excellent pedals, by far the nicest I've used! :)
But the brake pedal is definitely not for everybody.
@@KarlGosling I'm confused. Why do you think they are better than a load cell with just extremely firm elastomers? Since it sounds like their travel is close to non existent so it's not like you can tell how smooth they are or the hydraulic system. Maybe I just misunderstood your review because I just don't get from it what you think makes these good apart from that they feel realistic which is achievable with any super hard load cell.
I am curious to which games you tried them on?
Dirt Rally and ACC as they are the two I'm most familiar with.
Great review..
Thanks!
These are pedals for simulator training for real racing. Alonso wants the brake to be in his f1 car and not set it up to compete in sim racing for amateurs who never drive a real race car? But for all of us mortals who want to be as fast as possible. Yes, then this is paying a lot for something you don't need. Then should be pressure sensor only without any movement. Then you need to pay for this brake pedal.
These look like super well-made nice pedals, but they are sporting a price point that reflects the build and then some as compared to many other offerings.
As an old guy that grew up when many actual road cars still had manual brakes with no power boosters (what you over the big water are calling a servo) then having a short throw braking system which requires a heavy force to exert maximum braking pressure is not unknown to me.
Try stopping say a 3500lb 1968 Dodge Charger with a 440 cid v-8 and drum brakes front and rear around from about 120mph (193kph for you metric folks) in a rapid manner! You young whipper snappers are spoiled having disc brakes. lol!
Back to the pedals I do not see why a load cell set up could not be dialed in to work the exact same way as you are still just using pressure to make the measurement.
With the pedal set up software again setting dead zones and brake application up to 100% as compared to measured pressure there is no reason that a much less expensive set of load cell pedals could not do the exact same thing at a much cheaper price point.
I could maybe understand a hydraulic set system for someone on a more real life pro that was using a professional sim rig to duplicate as much as possible the actual set up they were racing but otherwise for the majority just playing racing games I do not see the justification for the added expense.
At the end of the day once you reach a certain point for sim gear many people are buying it I think as much trying to increase their e-penis or to be perceived as being "serious" sim racers as the actual advantages that many of these products actually offer to their game lap times is minimal to 0.
But again this is a hobby but honestly answer this, would you have bought these pedals with your own money to use or review if the company had not sent them to you free?
In my opinion v3 pedals or something at that level or price point are the normal hobbyist level for somewhat serious casual gamers something like Heusinkveld Sprint pedals are for most more serious sim racers that really desire competing at higher levels, above that is the money is no object crowd I want it mainly because most consider it to be the best top of the line you can buy.
Nice thorough video but I think these will be in a very small niche place in the market when the pre order price is $1000 for the 3 pedal set.
I can only imagine what stopping that was like with no servo assistance and drums all round! lol
Would I spend £1000 on them? No, as I said in this review and pretty much every pedal review video I think all "high end" pedals are way overpriced for what they offer... But there's always people out there that will buy them!
But saying that there is a night and day build quality difference between these and my V3's, also the clutch pedal feels so true to life whereas my V3 clutch is far too weak so you are getting something for your money, albeit not what I would call value.
So you're saying they actually do replicate real race car brake pedals?
It's only the Nancy boys who expect a large amount of travel, vis-a-vis street cars?
I just pre-ordered them 20 minutes ago. Do you know how long approximately it’ll take to get my order fulfilled?
I don't mate sorry.
These pedals look but unfortunately there $1700 for the 3 pedal set for before tax vs simagic $930 plus tax and on the simagic your able to adjust the spacing between the pedals a bit and more mounting options thought they need to workout the controller board mounting where as the asetek is really good.
22:08 it's almost as if some people want realism more than what's optimal... Which you know, is the whole point of a sim setup. To get as close to real life as possible...
Unless you want to be competitive... then the whole point is to win 😉
Pretty sure %100 of people who buy these pedals will add rubber bump stops to reduce their noise so they should just add something from the factory.
WHAT GOOD IS MATCHING A CLUTCH BITE THAT YOU JUST SAID YOU CANT EVEN FEEL THE WHOLE POINT OF SIMULATION IS TO DOUBLE WHAT HAPPENS IN OUR CARS SO ITS WASTE OF TIME
10:40 how is it different to something like the heusinkvelds?
I don't have them to compare mate sorry.
@@KarlGosling well, you can see from the picture. Its the same design. They straight up copied it, like a few others as well actually. Kinda weird seeing this praised. Appreciate you calling the brake for what it is, though.
Are these pedals better than Heusinkveld Ultimate plus ?
These work very differently with regards the brake pedal and so technically yes they are better.
@@KarlGosling Thanks for the reply. I have the He Ultimate Plus and now i am tempted to upgrade them to these Invicta pedals .
Which pedals are better in your opinion? these or the Ultimate +? I have 6 days to decide!!
I've never used the HE's mate sorry.
How would you compare these to the heusinkveld ultimates in the sense of which would be better for the more all arounder to simulate more types of cars ?
Thank you as always for your time and information!
These literally only simulate a real race car brake, so for anything else you might be better off with different pedals, I've never used them but HEU seem to always be a good go to pedal set.
Damn bro! I had some debris from drop ceiling tiles get in my eye and scratch my cornea. Shit is no fun at all. I was supposed to be in class that night after work and emailed my professor, told him what happened and that I'd be drinking myself to sleep with a wet cloth over my eye, lol.
hahaha best solution!
Could you use those on a playseat with a G29?
You could but they would not work well, the PSC would lift under braking for sure.
Oh btw, good review. Lol
I guess it's purely for immersion
Hey Karl its Phil, you been scratching then rubbing your eye again?
lol looks like it mate!
With a $10 GM brake pressure sensor… I’ll pass
Would you rather a $10 load cell? Sensors are just cheap mate, if they are expensive you're paying too much.
@@KarlGosling In my experience with those sensors,yes.