As a weird, uncoordinated autistic kid, I had a big advantage in being very tall. I wasn't bullied. I'm reasonably good-looking, and this made me more socially acceptable, at least in superficial relationships. As you said, it's more about social survival than looking good. My younger brother will tell me when I'm doing something that is socially off-putting, which I appreciate, because I know it's coming from a good place, and that he isn't just nitpicking.
My son is ASD lvl 2 and same! He’s quite tall. I work with him to pick clothing that fits his comfort and style needs while also being “cool” (sometimes this means expensive sneakers, or a coat from a fancier brand that the other kids will like). He has a very charming smile, so he makes awesome first impressions. So far, he is saying still that there has not been any bullying, and he is in middle school now. I always remind him to tell me if he sees any bullying, because bullying is never OK, and because if there is bullying, I’m gonna have to go in and kick some butts. Using that silly terminology seems to lighten what is otherwise a difficult topic, and helps it feel like he really might tell me if something happens. 💕 Basically, I’ve been applying the principles of pretty privilege that I’ve learned in my life to how we go about styling him. Also, I didn’t like doing it because it’s not always the best use of money, but it did have some up sides- we used a middle class level personal styling service, stitch fix, and that allowed him to pick outfits from a more limited arrangement. He seemed to really like that. He doesn’t want to have to go into a store and figure out what to wear from a whole bunch of options. He wants the quiz to ask him questions about what he likes to wear, and what activities he does, and then he can check off the outfits that actually look good to him. Everything that comes is in his size. It’s definitely a tool that is marketed for convenience, but which has added utility for people with disability. I’m going to continue to work with him on this stuff so that he can reach for those tools if he needs to when I’m gone. Hopefully, I’ll live to 100, so he’ll be like 79 by then, and he’ll have had a long life with lots of help learning how to take care of himself and navigate the world, even when it means donning the mask. I don’t want him to ever have to do it, but I want him to feel like he knows how if that’s a tool he wants to reach for.
my mask has covered a lot during my thirty odd years. in the past few years i have been working on understanding when the mask is useful and when i can safely unmask. during this time i have also realised that i’m trans and have been experimenting with clothing and looking more masculine. it’s nice not feeling like i have to look nice but people still treat me like a woman which makes me feel hyper perceived
Interesting topic. Uuuh.. I suppose since being a goth kid, and actively rejecting society’s shallow assessment of first impressions, I don’t personally relate to this aspect of masking much, but I appreciate you sharing your experience. I basically tried adopting a conventionally attractive appearance for my mask as a kid, repeatedly did not succeed, learned there was an alternative (…you mean I don’t have to try to be popular?! Thank god because I’m shite at it…), and have been challenging norms ever since I learned that’s an option. Partially because I believe in things like “body hair isn’t gross, and women should have to shave just to make other people comfortable,” and partially because I can’t be arsed - my survival odds improve when I divert my energy into other things. With depression, my energy is limited, I don’t have energy to dump into something I don’t care about. I suppose my mask is more built on things like kindness and quick thinking and if my appearance is off putting, then others will just have to get over it.
I have some thoughts/ suggestions which may have some use. I'm personally autistic, male, mid 20s, and capable of an effective smiley-mask which feels similar to what you're describing. I think you're too focused on the teeth: people seem to react to body posture and facial expression more than to small details. One of my front teeth has a (tiny, admittedly) chip and no-one even notices: my family didn't know it was there until I pointed it out. Smiling seems to be to shape the cheeks more than to display the teeth. It seems people only notice details after large scale things like style of clothing and posture. (Back straight but not rigid, shoulders facing them or turned up to 45° if referencing something else, hands somewhere visible but out of the way, cheeks squished up towards the eyes by a moderate smile, eyes on theirs about half the time).
I know what you mean. Both in terms of being fat as a child and seeing how fake people are since I got thin, but also how it’s a tool to help me get through life.
Woof. Can I ever relate to teeth anxiety. I’m really scared of the dentist though and my teeth are Already fucked up! I got a hole in one and plaque build up and an overbite and crooked teeth (though I love my crooked teeth). I just know I want to KEEP my teeth. I know lots of peeps with adhd who neglect various forms of hygiene and people as young as 30 who also have implants and lost teeth and I just AHHHH. But I know if I go to the dentist, they’ll wanna dig into my teeth. ;-; it’s scary. Also on *fear of aging also*. God. Yeah. When people ask how old I am, I cringe a little. Because I kNOW they think I’m Younger, cause I have baby face (for a masculine presenting person). But I’m 27!! I’m getting older! Shouldn’t I Have My Shit Together and NOT need consistent emotional and social support? But… it’s okay for older people to get confused too. I also have hopes for what many people say, about getting older and running out of fucks to give. I greatly hope for the day I *just don’t care* how people perceive me or how I act. *self perception is soooo hard*. I hate not knowing how I come off to people. I hate how people can perceive you and make misconceptions about you that are just WRONG. In highschool I got asked if I was on drugs a lot (haha not then but nOW?). Opposed to pretty privilege I feel like I have like. Achievement privilege? I am creative and ‘intelligent’ and went through college and talk about big ambitions….. and it makes people think I’m very competent and capable of handling things on my own all the time,,, but I’m ‘gifted’ burnout for real. I can barely handle keeping up with my hobbies, let alone make a career or creative endeavor out of it. Idk where to start when I have no directions. School was as straight forward as ‘fill in the blanks with what we’ve taught you’. Life…. Life is so much more complicated than school. My uncle is 77 and pretty neurodivergent seeming. But he’s got hella friends. People have issues with him ofc, thinking he’s a lil socially Dense and stubborn, but he’s still beloved. And that’s. Hopeful for me.
I'm about to turn 60 (wth?!) and I just got diagnosed as menopause starting wrecking me. I hope I can maintain my cuteness otherwise only my humour mask will be left and that's a less dependable one. That can appear a little crazy to mean people.
Wit is a boss level mask. However, I'm not sure it's good to only bring it out in social situations. Humour might be a better term. Humour is one of the masks that is better left on until if fuses. And, yes, wearing that mask constantly can make it a bit freaky... Okay. Two masks. Humour being the one that stays on and wit is the one that gets worn, over the top, for public use. Ideally, though, you want the wit to absorb something of the humour - so it's going to be unnerving for some people. I suppose, for the more confident people, the wit mask and the humour mask aren't particularly divergent. Oh, but then we have to have different wit masks for different kinds of other people... We have to carry a bag of different wit masks around just in case we are around one person and then a different person shows up. And they don't make appointments. My main wit mask - I had to doctor it severely. I had to cut all the tassels off. I don't like it, now. It leaves marks and I can't get it off fast enough when my need for it is paused. I am itching for the opportunity to be forced to go rooting in my old masks drawer. I have some much nicer ones in storage.
This is such a great point. The incentive for a feminine-presenting person to conform to the "pretty" standard to make life tolerable must be so confusing. I am embarrassed to say that I only truly understood the nuance of this by relating it to the same sort of expectations autistic masculine-presenting have to meet to be respected as a person.
I am very scared of dentists as i am really bad at tooth hygiene, and i had braces for 8 years basically all my teenage years. I have a similar mask that i need to be cute and sweet to get around but i can't do the teeth stuff or physical appearance stuff like makeup etc. I don't know i thought i was masking, but somehow i guess i adapted my speech and mannerisms more than my appearance? Yeah i think a lot of things are just being a woman, like being over 35 is difficult as a woman. I'm nearing 30 and I'm already feeling the effects of age on my effect on other people.
Braces are horrendous. I'm traumatised. Are you traumatised, too? It was, in a way, a form of torture. At eighteen I found out that, because of the many and unsymmetrical extractions (crowded mouth) that a brace was never going to straighten them because there was nothing to hold them in place. So, it was like I had spent my childhood locked in a hidden cellar and all for nothing. I couldn't even talk properly with my braces in. I had dreams about not being able to talk, because of a big piece of plastic in my mouth, for years. Wearing braces contributed to consequent life problems. Couldn't eat with other people. Wouldn't answer questions in class. It got into my mind so deeply.
You're nearing 30? Yeah it will feel different. Thirties are something to appreciate, because you are still young (even if you don't feel like it - it's perspective). I'm 48 (AuDHD diagnosed at age 46) and my mask changed over my thirties (I cared less what people thought of me, was still respectful and cared about how they were treated.) Then it dropped alot (I didn't know at the time because I didn't know that I was AuDHD yet) in my 40's. By the time I was 46, my mask was mostly trying to appear like I had everything together and could carry the world on my shoulders, quietly. When I needed help, it would confuse people because I "had it all together" (really, I didn't at all.) Meltdowns, breakdowns, pushed past the limits of being about to keep up managing life "so organized and well!😅"
I totallly realate to everything! great video Dana ...I am also obsessed with my teeth and I understand the basic maintenance of managing positive interactions and avoiding negative ones
Been trying to get help from the NHS for my teeth on and off for a decade, given up now, the annoying thing is if they just helped me I could be way more confident and may be in a better place in my life now 😭
My mother's family has had so many trouble with their teeth that I have always been attentive to my own. I'm now in my mid-seventies and have one crown, and a bunch of fillings. That's it. The dentist was trying to tell me to do all these things, and I said "Look, I'm not going to die from imperfect teeth. I don't really care if my skeleton has a perfect set of chompers.
I have fewer of the dreams where my teeth are falling out, now, and when they happen it's more curiosity than horror. I think this is because I A: pierced my own ears after realising both my parents were dead and their prohibitions had gone with them, B: realised I could do whatever the Hell I wanted with my own body, C: decided I had never liked the shape of my teeth so decided to do something about them. Yes, home dentistry is probably not generally advisable but oh brother is it empowering. So, if I ever have to show them to a proper dentist then the proper dentist will probably faint. Also, the cap finally fell off one of the incisors so now I look like a pirate. The wild thing is, though, that I quite like this! Your teeth, though, appear to have a nice shape and colour so I strongly advise against showing them who's boss because you may have developed a complex about them. It may be too much. Cutting one's own hair is a really good entry level for the mind to assert its dominance over the matter. Edit: I could be wrong but if you are fixating on the impact, to your life, of one of your teeth falling out how about getting some non toxic, easily removable, black costume tooth makeup and painting a really obvious one out. Then, keep looking in the mirror. Smiling. Talking. See if you're as freaked out as you think you would be. In many cases: exposure therapy (that's what this might be) can seriously backfire and particularly when it's implemented by somebody else's need to change us to be more acceptable to them. However, if it's only to make you more psychologically resilient to what may happen to you - it might be good for you. Don't fall head over heals in love with the pirate look, and immediately try to make it more permanent, though. I would suggest a similar thing to those people who can't function, in the world, without having their slap on. Come the apocalypse, when your ideal shade of foundation may be harder to come by, you don't want your anxiety about people seeing you without your makeup on to be the thing that ends you. The rewards of decoupling physical appearance and survival are great.
As a person who's always been short I agree that there is definitely a cute privilege happening in society. It's wrong & it's gross, but that's how it is. If I can't reach something at the supermarket I'll look around for a tall person, make eye contact & smile at them before I ask them to reach the thing I need for me. I also find saying "Excuse me" to get someone's attention is always acceptable, & treating my shortness as amusing means I'm more likely to not have to climb the shelves to reach things! I absolutely hate asking for help, so I guess masking means I get to act like it's not really me that needs help, but my smiley, friendly mask instead. 💚
I remember i went to walmart and i saw this little girl and her dad and her teeth looked so perfect i think it was her adult teeth too! i was blown away. Her dad and her were so happy i felt good to see them happy, but yeah her teeth were perfect i still cant believe it.
(This wasn't meant as anything but a joke.... oh boy do i have teeth trauma. And you know me.... trauma always equals jokes! Hope you're having a lovely day, great video!!!💞)
As a weird, uncoordinated autistic kid, I had a big advantage in being very tall. I wasn't bullied. I'm reasonably good-looking, and this made me more socially acceptable, at least in superficial relationships. As you said, it's more about social survival than looking good. My younger brother will tell me when I'm doing something that is socially off-putting, which I appreciate, because I know it's coming from a good place, and that he isn't just nitpicking.
My son is ASD lvl 2 and same! He’s quite tall. I work with him to pick clothing that fits his comfort and style needs while also being “cool” (sometimes this means expensive sneakers, or a coat from a fancier brand that the other kids will like). He has a very charming smile, so he makes awesome first impressions. So far, he is saying still that there has not been any bullying, and he is in middle school now. I always remind him to tell me if he sees any bullying, because bullying is never OK, and because if there is bullying, I’m gonna have to go in and kick some butts. Using that silly terminology seems to lighten what is otherwise a difficult topic, and helps it feel like he really might tell me if something happens. 💕
Basically, I’ve been applying the principles of pretty privilege that I’ve learned in my life to how we go about styling him. Also, I didn’t like doing it because it’s not always the best use of money, but it did have some up sides- we used a middle class level personal styling service, stitch fix, and that allowed him to pick outfits from a more limited arrangement. He seemed to really like that. He doesn’t want to have to go into a store and figure out what to wear from a whole bunch of options. He wants the quiz to ask him questions about what he likes to wear, and what activities he does, and then he can check off the outfits that actually look good to him. Everything that comes is in his size. It’s definitely a tool that is marketed for convenience, but which has added utility for people with disability. I’m going to continue to work with him on this stuff so that he can reach for those tools if he needs to when I’m gone.
Hopefully, I’ll live to 100, so he’ll be like 79 by then, and he’ll have had a long life with lots of help learning how to take care of himself and navigate the world, even when it means donning the mask. I don’t want him to ever have to do it, but I want him to feel like he knows how if that’s a tool he wants to reach for.
my mask has covered a lot during my thirty odd years. in the past few years i have been working on understanding when the mask is useful and when i can safely unmask. during this time i have also realised that i’m trans and have been experimenting with clothing and looking more masculine. it’s nice not feeling like i have to look nice but people still treat me like a woman which makes me feel hyper perceived
Interesting topic.
Uuuh.. I suppose since being a goth kid, and actively rejecting society’s shallow assessment of first impressions, I don’t personally relate to this aspect of masking much, but I appreciate you sharing your experience.
I basically tried adopting a conventionally attractive appearance for my mask as a kid, repeatedly did not succeed, learned there was an alternative (…you mean I don’t have to try to be popular?! Thank god because I’m shite at it…), and have been challenging norms ever since I learned that’s an option. Partially because I believe in things like “body hair isn’t gross, and women should have to shave just to make other people comfortable,” and partially because I can’t be arsed - my survival odds improve when I divert my energy into other things. With depression, my energy is limited, I don’t have energy to dump into something I don’t care about.
I suppose my mask is more built on things like kindness and quick thinking and if my appearance is off putting, then others will just have to get over it.
I have some thoughts/ suggestions which may have some use. I'm personally autistic, male, mid 20s, and capable of an effective smiley-mask which feels similar to what you're describing. I think you're too focused on the teeth: people seem to react to body posture and facial expression more than to small details. One of my front teeth has a (tiny, admittedly) chip and no-one even notices: my family didn't know it was there until I pointed it out. Smiling seems to be to shape the cheeks more than to display the teeth.
It seems people only notice details after large scale things like style of clothing and posture. (Back straight but not rigid, shoulders facing them or turned up to 45° if referencing something else, hands somewhere visible but out of the way, cheeks squished up towards the eyes by a moderate smile, eyes on theirs about half the time).
I know what you mean. Both in terms of being fat as a child and seeing how fake people are since I got thin, but also how it’s a tool to help me get through life.
When I finally grew my hair out and lost weight, people were SO much nicer. I hate it.
Woof. Can I ever relate to teeth anxiety. I’m really scared of the dentist though and my teeth are Already fucked up! I got a hole in one and plaque build up and an overbite and crooked teeth (though I love my crooked teeth). I just know I want to KEEP my teeth. I know lots of peeps with adhd who neglect various forms of hygiene and people as young as 30 who also have implants and lost teeth and I just AHHHH. But I know if I go to the dentist, they’ll wanna dig into my teeth. ;-; it’s scary.
Also on *fear of aging also*. God. Yeah. When people ask how old I am, I cringe a little. Because I kNOW they think I’m Younger, cause I have baby face (for a masculine presenting person). But I’m 27!! I’m getting older! Shouldn’t I Have My Shit Together and NOT need consistent emotional and social support? But… it’s okay for older people to get confused too. I also have hopes for what many people say, about getting older and running out of fucks to give. I greatly hope for the day I *just don’t care* how people perceive me or how I act.
*self perception is soooo hard*. I hate not knowing how I come off to people. I hate how people can perceive you and make misconceptions about you that are just WRONG. In highschool I got asked if I was on drugs a lot (haha not then but nOW?).
Opposed to pretty privilege I feel like I have like. Achievement privilege? I am creative and ‘intelligent’ and went through college and talk about big ambitions….. and it makes people think I’m very competent and capable of handling things on my own all the time,,, but I’m ‘gifted’ burnout for real. I can barely handle keeping up with my hobbies, let alone make a career or creative endeavor out of it. Idk where to start when I have no directions. School was as straight forward as ‘fill in the blanks with what we’ve taught you’. Life…. Life is so much more complicated than school.
My uncle is 77 and pretty neurodivergent seeming. But he’s got hella friends. People have issues with him ofc, thinking he’s a lil socially Dense and stubborn, but he’s still beloved. And that’s. Hopeful for me.
I'm about to turn 60 (wth?!) and I just got diagnosed as menopause starting wrecking me. I hope I can maintain my cuteness otherwise only my humour mask will be left and that's a less dependable one. That can appear a little crazy to mean people.
Wit is a boss level mask. However, I'm not sure it's good to only bring it out in social situations. Humour might be a better term. Humour is one of the masks that is better left on until if fuses. And, yes, wearing that mask constantly can make it a bit freaky... Okay. Two masks. Humour being the one that stays on and wit is the one that gets worn, over the top, for public use. Ideally, though, you want the wit to absorb something of the humour - so it's going to be unnerving for some people. I suppose, for the more confident people, the wit mask and the humour mask aren't particularly divergent. Oh, but then we have to have different wit masks for different kinds of other people... We have to carry a bag of different wit masks around just in case we are around one person and then a different person shows up. And they don't make appointments.
My main wit mask - I had to doctor it severely. I had to cut all the tassels off. I don't like it, now. It leaves marks and I can't get it off fast enough when my need for it is paused. I am itching for the opportunity to be forced to go rooting in my old masks drawer. I have some much nicer ones in storage.
@GoldilocksZone-665
Yes. Interesting! There's definitely different kinds of humour and it's important to use the correct one: wit, sarcasm, irony, absurdity, farce, puns, double-entendres, slapstick, dark, silly, lighthearted, childish, literary, self-deprecating, mocking authority, sharp, obtuse, rmail, text, business, cross-cultural, comment section...D'oh! It's a hilarious minefield of masks.
All the neurotypical ways can be too much for us autistic people as we have our own way of showing us. Masking can be exhausting if done too much.
This is such a great point. The incentive for a feminine-presenting person to conform to the "pretty" standard to make life tolerable must be so confusing. I am embarrassed to say that I only truly understood the nuance of this by relating it to the same sort of expectations autistic masculine-presenting have to meet to be respected as a person.
I am very scared of dentists as i am really bad at tooth hygiene, and i had braces for 8 years basically all my teenage years. I have a similar mask that i need to be cute and sweet to get around but i can't do the teeth stuff or physical appearance stuff like makeup etc. I don't know i thought i was masking, but somehow i guess i adapted my speech and mannerisms more than my appearance?
Yeah i think a lot of things are just being a woman, like being over 35 is difficult as a woman. I'm nearing 30 and I'm already feeling the effects of age on my effect on other people.
Braces are horrendous. I'm traumatised. Are you traumatised, too? It was, in a way, a form of torture. At eighteen I found out that, because of the many and unsymmetrical extractions (crowded mouth) that a brace was never going to straighten them because there was nothing to hold them in place. So, it was like I had spent my childhood locked in a hidden cellar and all for nothing. I couldn't even talk properly with my braces in. I had dreams about not being able to talk, because of a big piece of plastic in my mouth, for years. Wearing braces contributed to consequent life problems. Couldn't eat with other people. Wouldn't answer questions in class. It got into my mind so deeply.
You're nearing 30? Yeah it will feel different.
Thirties are something to appreciate, because you are still young (even if you don't feel like it - it's perspective).
I'm 48 (AuDHD diagnosed at age 46) and my mask changed over my thirties (I cared less what people thought of me, was still respectful and cared about how they were treated.)
Then it dropped alot (I didn't know at the time because I didn't know that I was AuDHD yet) in my 40's.
By the time I was 46, my mask was mostly trying to appear like I had everything together and could carry the world on my shoulders, quietly.
When I needed help, it would confuse people because I "had it all together" (really, I didn't at all.)
Meltdowns, breakdowns, pushed past the limits of being about to keep up managing life "so organized and well!😅"
I totallly realate to everything! great video Dana ...I am also obsessed with my teeth and I understand the basic maintenance of managing positive interactions and avoiding negative ones
Been trying to get help from the NHS for my teeth on and off for a decade, given up now, the annoying thing is if they just helped me I could be way more confident and may be in a better place in my life now 😭
Uhh I also have no concept of how people perceive me, which is generally why I go to negatives 🙃
My mother's family has had so many trouble with their teeth that I have always been attentive to my own. I'm now in my mid-seventies and have one crown, and a bunch of fillings. That's it. The dentist was trying to tell me to do all these things, and I said "Look, I'm not going to die from imperfect teeth. I don't really care if my skeleton has a perfect set of chompers.
I have fewer of the dreams where my teeth are falling out, now, and when they happen it's more curiosity than horror. I think this is because I A: pierced my own ears after realising both my parents were dead and their prohibitions had gone with them, B: realised I could do whatever the Hell I wanted with my own body, C: decided I had never liked the shape of my teeth so decided to do something about them. Yes, home dentistry is probably not generally advisable but oh brother is it empowering. So, if I ever have to show them to a proper dentist then the proper dentist will probably faint. Also, the cap finally fell off one of the incisors so now I look like a pirate. The wild thing is, though, that I quite like this!
Your teeth, though, appear to have a nice shape and colour so I strongly advise against showing them who's boss because you may have developed a complex about them. It may be too much. Cutting one's own hair is a really good entry level for the mind to assert its dominance over the matter.
Edit: I could be wrong but if you are fixating on the impact, to your life, of one of your teeth falling out how about getting some non toxic, easily removable, black costume tooth makeup and painting a really obvious one out. Then, keep looking in the mirror. Smiling. Talking. See if you're as freaked out as you think you would be. In many cases: exposure therapy (that's what this might be) can seriously backfire and particularly when it's implemented by somebody else's need to change us to be more acceptable to them. However, if it's only to make you more psychologically resilient to what may happen to you - it might be good for you. Don't fall head over heals in love with the pirate look, and immediately try to make it more permanent, though.
I would suggest a similar thing to those people who can't function, in the world, without having their slap on. Come the apocalypse, when your ideal shade of foundation may be harder to come by, you don't want your anxiety about people seeing you without your makeup on to be the thing that ends you. The rewards of decoupling physical appearance and survival are great.
As a person who's always been short I agree that there is definitely a cute privilege happening in society. It's wrong & it's gross, but that's how it is. If I can't reach something at the supermarket I'll look around for a tall person, make eye contact & smile at them before I ask them to reach the thing I need for me. I also find saying "Excuse me" to get someone's attention is always acceptable, & treating my shortness as amusing means I'm more likely to not have to climb the shelves to reach things! I absolutely hate asking for help, so I guess masking means I get to act like it's not really me that needs help, but my smiley, friendly mask instead. 💚
I remember i went to walmart and i saw this little girl and her dad and her teeth looked so perfect i think it was her adult teeth too! i was blown away. Her dad and her were so happy i felt good to see them happy, but yeah her teeth were perfect i still cant believe it.
At 40ish, cute, and female presenting, you would be amazed how much being smiley and cute will still help.
Traded my teeth for not depending on someone else.
I did loads of e in my 20s which wrecked my teeth forever. Not good. Very expensive
Teeth are fun! /dripping with sarcasm 🤷♀️
(This wasn't meant as anything but a joke.... oh boy do i have teeth trauma. And you know me.... trauma always equals jokes! Hope you're having a lovely day, great video!!!💞)
I think you have problems with seeing how you're perceived bcuz you have mind blindness but i think u talked about mindblindness before so..
You have good looking teeth, especially considering the country you are in😂
They could be american teeth😮😊
Lmao that was cold blooded
@ocdbrain just honest
Those are uncommonly straight for across the pond.
We definitely have our own bucktoothed regions here, no shame.