Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) Misconceptions
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- I recently saw a video that touched on pathological demand avoidance, also commonly referred to as PDA. Pathological demand avoidance (PDA) is a pattern of behavior in which we go to extremes to ignore or avoid anything they perceive as a demand. Pathological demand avoidance (PDA) is most often seen in people with autism, but certain traits also have been seen with people with ADHD and other sensory processing disorders. In this video I will talk about what PDA is, why it's often searched with ADHD and autism, strategies that can help those with pathological demand avoidance, and what it's like living with PDA. Do you or someone you know live with PDA? Share about your experience in the comments.
Here are some signs you might have PDA: • 10 Signs you have Path...
What is high functioning autism? • What is High Functioni...
Misunderstandings about autism: • Misunderstandings Abou...
0:30: 🧠 Understanding the challenges of Pathological Demand Avoidance in individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorder.
4:11: 💡 Understanding the challenges of individuals with Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA)
8:24: 🧠 Understanding Pathological Demand Avoidance and its impact on individuals with sensory processing challenges.
12:59: ⚙️ Strategies to cope with PDA: reverse psychology, preemptive actions, role-playing as a character.
16:23: 🧠 Understanding and managing pathological demand avoidance through creative strategies and autonomy.
Recap by Tammy AI
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Linnea Toney linnea@underscoretalent.com
For me something that helps is if someone asks me to do something I say no, then do it anyway. Saying no makes me feel like I've taken back control of the situation, if I said no I don't have to do it, but then I do it because I didn't really mind doing it. Also I always thought I was like this because I was messed up from being forced into things so much and never having control over my body, I am shocked that this is something that has a name and that other people experience!!!!
Me too. I say no more often in the later years, especially to my many older siblings as we deal with our aging parents and I’m the boots on the ground. It takes you aback at first but the more you say no, I know best believe it or not, the better it feels. But you’re right, I still consider what they strongly suggest and implement it sometimes anyway. And sometimes I chuck the request out the window 😅🤷♀️
I never realized this until just now, but yeah I do this exact thing. I say “no” jokingly as a subconscious way of feeling like I’m gaining control back, even though I’m not. One thing I noticed is that it mostly only works for demands that I simply don’t mind doing, instead of demands I have literally planned to do the whole time, just trying to transition into doing it, but someone comes up to me telling me to do the exact thing; that’s the case where “no” doesn’t work for me.
I do this😅
It might also work as a preliminary limit on others' expectations. If you say 'no' to a command - the 'commander' will be dismayed but then that makes them feel so much happier when you do what they want, anyway - probably much more than they would have been if you'd just complied from the get-go.
I think, though, what you now seem to believe erroneous (about suspecting that you are resistant, now, because of a history of compliance being destructive to you) is actually right (at least in part). So many unconscious parts of who you are, and are in control of trying to keep the organism (you) alive, have learned what happens when you do what you're told to do. It would, probably, be foolhardy to try to deprogram them. It can go haywire, though. It goes seriously counter-productive when we start PDAing our own directives. It's like logic and instinct declare war on each other.
😂Sounds like my child - "Yes'nt" is often their response. Or other variations of combining yes and no while going and doing the thing.
"We are most comfortable and regulated when we get to do the things we want to do in the order that we like to do them" - this is SO relatable.
I've struggled with this all my life - I was called "contrary", "stubborn", "lazy" & "difficult" by my parents & I almost believed them. I've worked out that if I have several tasks to do (eg vacuuming, washing & gardening) I'll feel really avoidant of at least one of them, so I do something else instead - that way a task still gets done, even if it's not the one I was originally thinking of doing. My thought process is something like "what can I do instead of the demand?" I've also become extremely skilled at subtly subverting rules so they feel less demanding - like at a job where jewellery was not allowed, I wore a toe ring that no one but me knew about 🤣
Not sure if that's the same thing - there's a number of not terribly healthy parents that will hand out negative statements like those on a child who is pretty average in terms of child behavior.
@@cairosilver2932 I didn't mention my childhood behaviour, nor how average or otherwise my childhood behaviour was! Which part of my comment did you think was erroneous?
@@lauraburystedmundsyoga8231 I didn't mention an error just as much.
@@cairosilver2932 ? Just as much what? I don't understand
There is ONE major odd advantage with this behaviour: I have the energy to reject all browser cookies individually..
"F*** you Website, you're not gonna f-ing track me. Dont you dare tell me you want my data"
Oh my god, fuck browser cookie settings! I do this as well, but saying I have the energy to do it would be a stretch. Having to manually uncheck every niche "legitimate interest" option of every one of dozens of advertising companies on basically every website pretty much every month or so... is low-key burning me out.
This isnt behavior its called children refusing to get ODD meds shoved down their throats
Its either do nothing because they dont understand the work
Or ask 1 questiom then ODD meds the book answers arent allowed to be wrong ypu called out the 9 so now you go on ODD meds even though everybody knows that answers been wrong since I went to high school I think that class became a middle school class now
😂💯🤣
😂 Same!
@@Lady8D its called being a person with common sense and critical thinking skills
Like the velcro octopus taught us that the government now hides from us
Tricks like reverse psychology don't work for me because they feel patronizing. I'm ALL about that fantasy character deal though. That's my favourite coping tool.❤
I dont think that will work for my daughter either. Any other tips that help you?
@yennycc4174 make everything a quest! Fairy tale, super hero, whatever she's into.
Almost every time I watch one of your videos you take away a fragment of the excuses I have to despise myself. I hope you understand how powerful your videos are in learning to identify and make peace with the traits that I struggle with and in learning ways to manage and cope with them. The sense fellowship I gain from you and your knowledge is priceless. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Be well. ❤
I've never heard something described that explains how my mind and emotions feel every single day. I've tried to explain this very process my brain goes through to many therapists, and it never seemed to make any sense to them. This is exactly how I feel much of the time. The only part that I feel differently is that in that first scenario, if I was doing something and someone asked me to do it while I was actually doing it or if I had already done it, I get extremely panicked because I DID THE THING. Didn't you see me doing the thing? Don't you see the thing is done? Then I start thinking did I do the thing? If no one is going to see if I do the thing, why am I doing it? And on and on. And I freeze and am unable to do more things.
As someone with autism, PDA, ADHD & a myriad of other things, may I just say:
1) I love your videos, thank you! And
2) some of the ideas mentioned between 13:45 and 14:15 ish could easily backfire with someone like me - mainly because:
• Perhaps I wouldn't pick up on what you're trying to do (ie "Do not help me with the groceries" - I typically take things literally and fail to pick up subtle hints, etc so this would likely result in me thinking "Oh ok, she wants to do it alone")
• Sometimes a challenge feels like a demand with tighter deadlines (ie "I bet you can't fold your laundry before the episode ends" could feel to me like "You need to do this as fast as possible, c'mon hurry the hell up!" even when I know my partner is just trying to help me get over the hurdles my brain lays down)
A couple of the things my partner has done in the past that _REALLY_ helped me _A LOT_ when things were at there worst PDA-wise (meaning I'd shut down, couldn't get myself to move or respond, etc) was to very slowly, kindly and lovingly do it for & then with me. For instance one of the times we were trying to go dancing & after some sensory overload etc I couldn't get up, let alone dressed so she came over and gently took my hand, when I didn't pull away or react negatively she started to slowly pull me up and in for a gentle hug, then undressed me and helped me dress/get ready checking in every step of the way to nonverbally gauge my response and stress level/make certain she was helping and not making it worse. As she did this it slowly enabled me to start controlling my body again & by the end I was finishing on my own.
Another method she has found useful is when my brian keeps putting up barriers to getting in the shower (for instance) rather than asking/telling me it was time to shower she found a moment when I was up & able to be touched, she hugged me and started dancing/being playful with me while guiding me toward the shower & then starting it, etc for me - we'd discussed me needing to shower & struggling to do so previously so rather than verbally urging me she helped me trick my body and brain into doing it before it had much chance to object. Again, checking in every step of the way to gauge my reactions and stress levels - which she is phenomenal at doing!
I'm _extremely_ lucky to have her in my life!
Yes, You are extremely lucky to have her!! I'm jealous 💔❤️...
All those ways You mentioned seem to be ways that would work for me too... As I was reading what You wrote, my internal judgmental voice was saying.. But why would anyone want to do all that to put up with You (I'm talking about myself, not You)??? Then I was thinking about all the beautiful ways in which I do contribute to people's lives... and that this is my whole package, and even though I wish I wasn't like this, that normal every day adult stuff are so difficult for me that someone would need to do all this to help me, I shouldn't negate myself as a human being deserving of that love & help... And then I thought about my reaction to what You wrote, as You being so lucky to have someone like her, and although I agree and she seems to be really special, I'm sure she's really lucky to have You too, I'm sure You bring a lot to her life as well, and I'm sure she sees the specialness in You... ❤❤
(I hope You took everything I wrote in a positive way, this was my internal judgmental voice talking to myself about myself, I hope You understand... 🙏❤️)
@@mandyschwartzberg3849 I totally get what you mean, appreciate the clarity & agree wholeheartedly! We definitely have a give and take relationship, we try to support each other in whatever ways we're able whenever we're able. Been together nearly half our lives now (we met at 21, we both turn 42 this year ❤️)
We had to work with each other's faults and allow for growth and change throughout the years of course. The first 8yrs were a rollercoaster but we were able to work our issues out & have been going strong ever since.
The main thing we do in life is laugh! Even on some of my really bad pain days we are usually able to find ways to laugh & make the best of things
This sounds like bragging but it's not intended that way, more so just me sharing what's worked for us and hoping it will help others somehow. Tho I'm typing this with the remnants of a migraine so I apologize if I'm not making much sense.
You're absolutely worthy of the love and compassion we have for each other! 🫂
I don't know how much this affects my life overall, or what coping methods I've unknowingly adopted to deal with it... But I 100% identify STRONGLY with that instantaneous "Nope." feeling/sensation when someone tells me to do something I was about to do/on my way to doing/in the middle of doing. It's overwhelming and unmanagable and it caused me so many problems growing up. Even now, I sometimes am on my way to do the dishes and my mother will go "hey the dishes need to be done if you have a moment" and every iota of interest and drive I had to do that task (which I often have spent hours or even days working myself up to doing) just goes out the window instantly. It's so frustrating because my mother absolutely takes it as defiance and laziness.
so....next time yer already doing the dishes and someone tells you to do them....just continue, stay mellow and say: "I Am" (shrug). If it makes you feel better, shame on THEM for apparently being the dunb-ass who didn't notice before they opened their mouth. Problem solved.
Thats called normal life and I dealt with that from my mom now with the 18 hours of homework no idea how a child gets any chores done
My mom called me a waste of space after I yelled at her about not being the oldest but with my older sister she never made her take out the trash
My younger brother took it out
Tell her to get all of your 18 hours of homework done then and then see who the lazy one ends up being and remind her constantly its 18 hours of illegal homework in a good amount of cases
I experience this so much in my life. My parents do this to me all the time. They act blind and ask me to do something I’m IN THE MIDDLE OF DOING RIGHT IN THEIR FACE. It’s like they enjoy telling me what to do even when I do it on my own without anyone asking.
@celestehernandez2000 my sister always ended up doing her own laundry most of the time
So she tended to leave her clothes in the dryer for once after she finished something she actually went to get her clothes
My mom said dont forget you need to get your clothes
Ny sisters response what are you blind I an doing that right now
My mom as a joke said apparently
I feel like a big part of pda, at least for me, is that I am also a people pleaser, so when someone asks me to do something, whether it's something I want to do or not, I feel a strong compulsion to do the thing at the exact same time I feel like my autonomy is being taken away.
PDA affects my life a lot. And it sucks. Like, keeping my body alive and healthy is already hard. Every little task is a fight against my brain, eating, sleeping, exercising, everything. But to me worst of all is my desire to be financially independent clashing with the inability to get and keep a job. It's like the PDA fights itself. I have that desperate drive for autonomy, but to achieve that I need a job, which means selling my time and energy to a company which then triggers my PDA, because there is someone else in controll and a demand put on myself to be at work at certain times and to do whatever they tell me to do.. and then the flight response sets in, which really feels like "I need to get out of this situation or else I'm going to die". And then I either quit or get into trouble and get fired, because I can't keep up with the demands.
And then the cycle starts again...
I've been trying for years to start my own business, so I can stay in controll of my time, but the legal stuff and responsibilities that come with it are already too much of a demand.
76 years old and,thanks to your video and the comments,i'm suddenly striken by the réalisation that my behaviour,often borderline,can be explained,understood,that i'm not a monster as i see myself.
That the despération and the anger have somehow a reason,that i'm not alone to react and refuse to act or decide with so much violence.
I've seen few psychiatrists ,i still see one.Never heard the name of those symptoms before i found you.
I feel it's kind of late to put a name on my behaviour,but now that i know,i can try to find a way to work on it,for my own sake and those who love me ....
Thank you from France.
Love this. I’m big on giving myself the same result choices and I’m definitely going to try out the “role playing” strategy 😂
The reverse psychology one feels like I would have to be careful with my kiddo who experiences it too. Telling him I don’t think he could do something would be hurtful for him. But making it a fun challenge would be more helpful! 😊
Yay!!! I am so glad some of the ideas were helpful :) It was so interesting to learn about and come up with some ideas for working with (not against) our brains!! xoxo Keep me posted!! xo
Thank you for making ASD affirming content. This means so much coming from a mainstream channel
My autistic son experiences this. It is quite disabling at times. School has been a difficult journey but he managed to get through it with great support until now in his senior year. He tests at A+ but his grades border on failing.
Administrators and teachers need to be made more aware of this and learn that this is not a discipline problem but a disorder. Most of his teachers where amazing but every once in a while not so. Thanks Kati
Its called over working every single child with illegal homework so this applies to every child because they arent allowed to leave the house until their homework gets done so what the hey heck are they supposed to do
A 60 page autobiography absolutely illegal the longest an autobiography allowed to be 10 pages
Somebody tried to publish their plagiarized school assignment because face it thats what it ends up being and the publisher also called it out as that
So the school system never tried to sue the government over this and now we got a bunch of illegal homework impossible to finish
Its not a disorder its the children wanting to be children and actually play outside
Same here. School is literally making it worse. So sad that our schools are so ill equipped to deal with this profile.
@Unbrokenbreath no its not illequiped the government forces this stuff
Thats why 2 year olds get homework now and none of the schools sue the government
The funding for schools how drugged up they get children the more drugged up on ODD meds the more funding
Also test scores and why the teachers give out those answers the way they used to give out penny candy (Shays vlog about how he used to get penny candy from the teacher)
When I learned about PDA (from Meg at the "I'm Autistic, Now What" TH-cam channel) my universe snapped into focus (because I could all of a sudden see that this was the piece that had been missing for autism making sense as an explanation of my life, when SO MANY OTHER THINGS made so much sense as autism).
And then when Meg went through the "here are some things people with PDA find can help" part, I laughed laughed and cried and cried, because every single thing she listed (except the roleplay idea, which was new to me) was one of the workarounds it had taken me 50 years of picking up the pieces of myself after burnouts to develop for myself.
And I have an extremely exciteable/high strung/anxious 2yr old Australian Shepherd cross dog who's taken over every spoon I have, trying to train/manage her every day the last 24 months, and now when I'm floundering I think "What would Susan Garrett [the world champion dog agility trainer] do in this situation?" and it helps me deal with the constant stress of helping my doggo work through her issues, instead of melting down and shutting down as easily as had been happening. I take on Susan's decision-making/situation-assessing process and it gets me through.
(Just to be 100% clear, the PDA realization moment I had is about WAY MORE than my dog; I'm just mentioning the dog situation as an issue that interacts with my PDA autism in sometimes-catastrophic ways, that I'm able to approach in a more helpful way now that I'm trying the roleplaying thing).
I have some episode suggestions if you haven’t made them before; I love these in depth videos about things (especially neurodivergent ones) that not a lot of people have heard about:
Sensory Processing Disorder
Executive Functioning
ADHD Paralysis
Decision Fatigue
Acute Stress Disorder
ASD Meltdowns
Overstimulation
Or any other common neurodivergent disorder and/or symptom.
Pretty sure I have PDA. My ex gf who has been diagnosed with ASD insisted that I’m autistic also. I was set up for an evaluation until I discovered I was very affected by getting bullied and ridiculed by my older brother, and having it dismissed by the adults. So childhood trauma, social anxiety and all the other ways I’m affected is what I’m dealing with now, I didn’t even know I had any for 35 years. Whether I have ASD or not, I can relate to so much, it’s nice to find a community that understands how my mind works. And just the frustration with even the seemingly understanding, open minded family members like my mother say “I don’t think you’re autistic, you’re Ok” and console me. No matter how much I explain it, people still think it’s like a sickness or a disability or it means there’s something wrong with me. Your videos have helped with quite a bit during this journey. Thank you Kati ❤
Often parents don't see it because they are neurodiverse themselves. If you are like them, how should they know that you are different?
my mother had the most success getting me to cooperate by asking, "do you want to do...?" and then i would think for half a minute and then start doing whatever it was. just a thought--hope it helps.
Hi Kati, I have ASD with PDA and want to say this is very accurate and it resonates with my lived experiences. PDA is a constant struggle, especially with convincing myself to not do the thing I want to do so I can do it. I really need to be in a relaxed and secure mindset, and I've been on a journey for a while now to be my true self, and this has helped with it very much. I think this is the case because I am more confident about my thoughts. Thanks for posting great content, and have a great week! :)
So overworking children amd giving 2 year olds homework assignments and them wanting to be children instead of doing illegal homework now constitutes as a mental illness I hate america
The reason for the bad grades with homework a child trying to get it done and asks questions ends up on ODD meds
What this tells me either children who protest going on ODD meds and never get their homework done now gets called these letters
Anybody who tries to get their homework done and ask questions ODD so the child just doomed now to get meds shoved down their throats
I am surprised these children havent started some kind of a crack cocain protest and be like you want us on drugs mine as well be this sheet (the reason I go with that powder sugar looks like it so they dont need the real stuff)
Also Adderall pretty much crack thanks to emptysawesome I learn that (he got told hes ADD/ADHD because everybody fits that)
Then that mean you forget that asking 1 question gets ODD meds shoved down your throat that started around 2008ish 2010 prevalent (1 teacher wanted me on ODD meds in 2007 bevause I went to my math teacher to tell her off for me since she ignored every word I said)
Hi @@ihartevil, thank you for sharing. It sounds like you've been through some challenging experiences, and I appreciate you opening up about them. I personally haven't been prescribed ODD meds. My psychiatrist has been supportive in allowing me to be in acceptance with what I take (I am 45 so maybe that's a part of it), and I currently take Vyvanse for my ADHD and a couple blood pressure meds I've been on for most of my life. I did take Lexapro, then Cymbalta then switched to Prozac but I had the same complaint with all of them and that is they dumbed and slowed me dow
@kgerrish24 you mean an allergy medication proven to do nothing for most people sometimes flares up allergies
Lexipro yikes that thing has lawsuits up the wazoo
I went on 0 meds besides some that happened due to my mom being stoopid but I usually threw them out or didnt take them
The few times I took them went crying to TYT over it once my dad tipped over the pills I completely stopped and once my mom got back from her trip she stopped caring
Now I just reaeech all the lawsuits and go over all the fake stuff that put people on meds and know all the real meds left america about when aca went full blast
Now the hospitals hep 0 peoples and I watched a baby get :( because heykayli didnt follow her mother instincts
I thought for so long I am just childish for those symptoms. Thank you for talking about this and spreading awareness that this is actually a thing^^
I clicked on this not knowing a thing and I cannot believe that there is an actual term for one of the biggest issues I’ve ever dealt with. I’m mind blown
This explains a lot. I was diagnosed with autism at 12, but I was diagnosed with Oppositional Defiance Disorder when I was little. I do think there is another important component to this PDA thing: When it comes to children, the way adults react can amplify it, and cause it to become a vicious cycle. A lot of adults have the tendency to project heavily onto children, and to take children's behavior very personally. I have noticed that when other adults are being difficult, people are more likely to see it as a reflection of that person, or what they are going through. But if a child shows even a little bit of defiance, many adults will get incredibly triggered by that child, and start treating them more harshly and more condescendingly from that point onward. Then, the child feels alienated, misunderstood, and controlled, and they have all that much less reason to make an effort to be cooperative. I don't struggle with PDA nearly as much now as I did as a child, and a big part of this is that I am adult now, and most people are choosing to communicate with me in an adult-to-adult fashion. When I do encounter someone who has a punitive demeanor, my past sense of self comes flooding back, and it is much more difficult to regulate my reactions.
Yep. Definetely true. Fits me like a glove. This will help me explaining to my parents why I at the age of forty almost kind of behave like a baby when given a kind advice. Dad's a doctor, so he does listen to scientific explanations.
This is the best summary of PDA that I've seen. Funny thing, when you started using "we," "us," and "our" in your narrative my thought was "oh, so you're autistic too?!? Really?!?!?" Yup, even a mistrusting, visceral reaction to that. Thanks for a great post.
I struggle with this, and the part where you talked about shower is right on spot.
For me too.
thank you so very, very much. i spent most of my time in years watching this. my counselor mentioned PDA so I've been researching. this was so incredibly validating. almost every one of those was said to me at one time or another while i was growing up.
I'm NOT lazy. I'm NOT to sensitive. I'm NOT defiant.
thank you. a thousand times... thank you ❤
Omg, I absolutely feel this. It always happened when I would clean my room. I would be actively cleaning my room and anytime my parents interrupted me and would comment about it and they never understood why I got so frustrated because they ended my ability to continue. It also explains certain social anxiety responses. I get so frustrated when I have started creating a new routine because if it is interrupted I lose all the progress I have made.
I’m so glad you decided to do a video on PDA. I’ve been really curious about it for a while, and it was great to hear you break it down and offer helpful workarounds for PDA!
I also really like how you use “we” and other first person language in your videos. It really reduces stigma and shame and makes me feel less alone. (At least, that’s my experience). Thanks Kati!
I think I've had this since my mid-teens. Anything that was an obligation, routine or pressure, would instantly fill me with dread, boredom and exhaustion.
I haven't showered regularly in 30 years. It is SUCH an obligation and I just can't deal with it.
I'm good at doing things I would otherwise not want to IF I am surprising someone. Like cleaning or tidying for example. I CANNOT be seen doing this, as I don't want anyone to know as then they'll comment (even positively) and it will instantly cut off any interest I have in it. Whereas if I just quietly do it on my own, as a nice gesture for someone, I have more motivation to actually do it. So in short, it must be MY choice.
I don't have ASD and don't think I have ADHD, but I do have CPTSD, GAD, BPD, AvPD and OCD.
I also have depression with anhedonia so giving myself choices of HOW to do the things I don't want to do doesn't help, as no matter what, they still feel like pressures and obligations, and none seem like an appealing choice as there is NOTHING I want to do due to the anhedonia.
Same with not doing anything all day. Most days I do nothing, and I sleep all day to avoid feeling and thinking. It's been several years of this and it's a relief. I have never felt any sense of obligation from it.
I'm sorry to hear that. I feel like I'm in a similar spot, but don't have much in terms of diagnoses yet beyond the obvious chronic depression and anxiety.
Can I ask how you do in terms of friendships and romance (if you're not an ace)?
I'm an AB well into my 30s and romantic loneliness is killing me. I feel like I'm trapped between the need to heal so I can have romance, and the need to have romance so I can heal. I know I can't expect both from either a personal relationship or therapy, but feel like that's what I'd need.
So when I read about you doing nothing most days I related to that and wondered what your experience was in that regard.
Anyways, anhedonia sounds like something I wanna check out for myself. Thanks
@@argh1989 Anhedonia SUCKS! Technically it's a big part of having depression (losing interest in things you used to enjoy and not feeling pleasure or enjoyment out of anything), but for some people (me), it's the main symptom and overrides everything else.
My anhedonia was caused by prolonged trauma, stress, fear and then devastating loss. I was in constant fight or flight response mode, and then I went into long term freeze mode, where I just don't want to, and can't, do anything.
Anyway, I'd say I'm 95% asexual and bi-romantic. I'm 45 and have been with my partner (another woman) for 23 years, and I love her dearly, but there's no attraction and we haven't been sexually intimate for 20 years, and physically intimate (snuggles, cuddles, kissing etc) for about 15 years. I have no interest, and way back when those things kind of stopped happening, I felt pressure because they were "supposed" to occur. Eventually, it just became the new normal.
I have no interest in being with anyone at all actually. I do have friends, but they all live in a different state so I only see them once a year or so. That's pretty much enough for me though.
A lot of people think we need to change, but mostly it's others who need to change to accommodate our needs. I defy your rules because you gave them to me in an authoritarian way and not in a way that makes me feel equal as a human being.
I have always suffered from this. Did truly understand and still don't understand. I think that I have high functioning Autism.
My youngest child has this. They are always extremely exhausted just like I am.
I also have chronic pain.
Don't know how to function as an Adult because of this, expect to be gentle, because of the love for myself helps me do things out of LOVE. I also like helping others and that is how I get things done too. I feel that getting things done helps me help myself/ love myself too.
❤❣️❤❣️❤ Yes, role playing my "ideal self " and day dreaming of what I wished/ want for myself and my family ❣️
Thank you for sharing and taking time to learn and explain these things.
If you are in chronic pain look into Ehlers Danlos Syndrome.
Reverse psychology always feels manipulative to me and makes it worse. The last advice of "doing nothing", it works because you just wait for your unconscious self to act on its own impulse, rather than having to act on some timeframe it has no say in. I'll find myself doing tasks without even thinking about it because my mind/body was just all of a sudden ready to act, there was no reason for it to be told.
I really wish you'd look into the neurodivergent model of autism. We're Autistic, we're not disordered, the expectations the world puts on us are.
IMO the last bit is a very problematic point of view. Being autistic myself I get why people would say that, but it's still a bad idea to go down this path.
While you might be able to convince your family, friends and maybe even your work colleagues and boss to see you in that light, in reality autistic people still make up so little of the population, we can't claim that we're not disordered when we clearly are compared to neurotypicals who will always set the norms for what is "normal" and what isn't.
And I'm not even convinced that every neurotypical around will eventually agree to the idea, that we're as capable as them when we are clearly not in many ways. Yes, we're also more capable to do certain things than neurotypical people. But that doesn't make us not disabled.
In the end, the non-deficit-model will backfire on every single autistic person following that path - because it's delusional and hasn't anything to do with reality. But I get why it's tempting, especially to late diagnosed individuals.
I hate the thought that I'm disabled too - hard to wrap my head around, living a "successfully life" with a Familie, a job, a house and stuff like that.
But my struggles are real and I have to do invest more energy into almost everything I do to just keep the s*it together in a way that's fitting for my needs and the needs of my husband and kids who aren't all neurodiverse.
So yeah, I am disabled, there's no other way to put this. But it doesn't Make me less of a person or member of society. I'm still worthy of love, support and happiness, just like eveybody around me.
I say "Autistic people aren't disordered" is in its core ableist, even though it claims to be the opposite.
Yours is the ableist & problematic viewpoint. The Neurodiversity model is not just some wishful thinking by some Autistics, it's actually part of a wider psychological & neurological study that has a lot of evidence to back it. You can have whatever opinion you want on the matter but it doesn't out weigh the actual scientific research that has been what has brought the neurodiversity movement to the forefront.
@@smule77 And I never said that we cant be disabled. Disability and disorder arent necessarily the same thing. The requirements set up by society are what disables us, in a world actually built by and for neurodivergents, we wouldnt be.
Massive thanks for this video, you've effortlessly explained my childhood. Wow. If only I'd known, but I am learning that I'm not alone in a sea of undiagnosed middle aged folk! Thank you for your content.
It makes me literally
have nervous breakdown.
There is so much to it…
It affects being understood.. Being effective and feeling misunderstood. So cared for
I’m at my witz end
Good info. This seems to describe my son. He has CPTSD from being abused in foster care before I found him and adopted him at age seven. He is 18 now and refuses treatment but I can see a pattern of this with him. It can be a daily struggle.
I have Panic Disorder and GAD and my anxiety attacks and/or meltdowns look very different than neurotypical people. I’d be interested if anyone else can relate. So I have the typical anxiety/panic attack symptoms (heart racing, shaking, hyperventilating, etc.). But because I also have ASD, the panic/anxiety attacks/meltdowns can last for hours and hours. They’re totally and completely exhausting. I wind myself back up into serious upset, over and over. I rock back and forth and sometimes even hit myself. I cry, uncontrollably, for hours (I also suffer from MDD). To calm down, I have to take my anxiety meds (including a benzo), I have to meditate or do a grounding exercise (if I can, a lot of the time I’m so worked up, I just say “it’s not going to work so why bother”). I’m curious if anyone can relate to this.
We are still here little kuriboh used to talk about that all the time
He ended up being very sick from his depression/anexity
Lk ended up with a bad panic attack at night the series we are still here got a lot of people to be like ya at least others understand
Thank you for covering this Kati, really ❤
I have PDA, and just today my routine broke and im now laying bed wishing i had never been born bc i cant handle my feelings and my body..
My partner is working from home today, which normally throws me off balance, i am the primary caretaker of the home, i clean and do the dishes and normally im quite efficient, but when he works at home i just break..
I am also getting a drivers license so i need to read up on all the things for the test in 2 weeks, and its so important for me to do, but i just can't...
He just reminded me to do it as i was about to open the website, and i just broke..
He saw, said sorry and asked me to go in and rest for a bit, but im not feeling tired enough to sleep either. And so it will continue to ruin my day, it honestly feels like i got the wrong foot out of bed today, as everything is just not working..
(I also struggled with a headache i have had the entire day now, which is quite painful today, but i had hoped i coyld at least read up on the license theory just a tiny bit... But i guess thats too much to ask my brain 🙄😭)
I really love and appreciate all the first-hand accounts you inserted into this video. :)
Thanks for a concise summary on PDA.
Thanks for all your help on here. Really appreciate you and your efforts ❤
I never get to make my own choices. My life has always been in somebody else's control. It's like I'm not allowed to make my own choices.
Omg literally
Welcome to life. You don't get to choose which side of the road to drive on, or which mushrooms are poisonous, or which raindrops will fall on your head.
You get to drive on the same side as everyone else, and deal with it.
You get to eat the safe mushrooms and leave the others alone, and deal with it.
You get to hold an umbrella or get wet, and deal with it.
I feel this. Being able to make your own choices is so important and it can be really damaging if that ability is taken away by others. For me, having all my choices made for me by abusive others made me feel like I wasn't a person in their eyes, just a thing to be controlled. We need some sense of autonomy to be healthy and happy. I hope that you are safe and that you get to a place where you are able to make choices that best serve your health and growth.
This is literally the struggle of my life. Thank you for spreading awareness, Kati! I wish my family spoke English and I could send them this video to help them understand.
This was a wonderful video Kati, very informative- thanks and God bless!😀
OMG You're th ONLY person who described it in a way I could understand.
Thank you for this, it helps me understand myself and ASD coworkers so much better. 😊
Hi, Kati. Hope you are well. Do you think you could do a video on childhood trauma/neglect/abuse and autism? EG: Needs not being met, etc. This would really help me. Thanks!
When she mentioned roll playing she said she wasn’t thing sexual but my mind was on D&D
My 5 year old daughter was diagnosed with ASD level 2 and ADHD combined type. She’s very articulate and social, willful, and has a high vocabulary. She shows all the symptoms of PDA and this video was so helpful. It’s very difficult to get the right treatment because PDA is not recognized in the US and it’s not on the DSM 5- it’s has been very frustrating. Last year we tried ABA and it was horrific for her and it only made her more frustrated. The major concern is her eloping behavior in school which is a safety issue - she tends to get into fight or flight mode if overstimulated or under stimulated or if she is redirected or told no.
Ya thats because the moment a child asks a question they need to go on ODD meds every child knows this by now so now they are being called PDA because we must find someway to shove meds down all children
Plus ADD/ADHD never existed that was supposed to be the ODD meds but the people liked the adderol so they never got off it and a few years ago they tried to claim those children got addicted to it when it actually worked for them because of their autism without that they hate those meds like iadarola and end up researching about ants or empysawesome and he made a video about it being crackcoke amd he knows what thats like because he used to do that
Great information, thanks!!!
yay!! this needs to be said, love ya
My psychologist brought this up a while ago, and stated it also doesn't just affect people with ASD- I don't have it.
I related to bits and pieces of PDA, and very much related to the example of not texting people back because it was so long ago, and the demand to do it was too much. This usually happens when I am having a depressive episode.
A very interesting video topic, thanks Kati :)
It is possible that you are demand avoidant but not PDA. There are other reasons that can explain demand avoidance kinds of behaviours. Like you mentioned depression, it could be linked to that, and maybe something else. PDA is more like when you have always been this way.
Thank you! This is helpful to understand whay my son with ASD is going through when he refuses to do things we tell him to do.
Thank you so much for this informative video! My 16 year old daughter was just assessed with ASD 1 year ago and PDA is absolutely making so much sense and this has been an AHA moment. I would love to hear more, especially some different ways that any therapy might help, for example somatic therapy to help with regulating emotions 🤷🏼♀️
Omfg thank you so much for breaking it down for me. My kiddo has never been diagnosed but I'm starting to suspect that she is and now I know how it works so I can try new ideas with it
So glad you put this video out. This describes me to a T. I could be doing something I like and want to do, but when someone tells me to do that thing... I pretty much just stop and walk away.
I've always been able to see through reverse psychology, even though I have a hard time with other things (like knowing if someone is teasing me or not). PDAer/AuDHDer here, not yet diagnosed but all the pieces fit. I do remember many times being told I was defiant, but not realizing why. Interesting. (So strange to look back at your life and suddenly things make sense to you that didn't before.) I can especially relate to not realizing my body's signs (like needing to go to the bathroom). When you get older, this is a real problem. I also have things I love doing, like my painting and making jewelry, but when friends ask, "Do you take commissions?" I'm like, "No! I would rather just give them to people as gifts." If I take a commission, there's a timetable on it, I *have* to do it, it's *expected* of me... so, no. I may never be known as a successful painter, but to me, the joy lies in the doing.... when *I* feel moved to do it. (Same with my writing, I just realized. *That* is why I am afraid to find an agent, etc. The business end of writing is just far too demanding; it would take all the joy out of it, and that's why I do it in the first place.) Thanks for the video!
I tend to tell people to do it themselves and get rather irate when people make any form of demand including offering a suggestion but I justify it by not offering any form of suggestion or demand to anyone. In my mind even now I think I was justified until I push the subject and my brain admits it was wrong eventually. I have managed to reduce these responses with Nortriptyline which I think is a Serotonin Noradrenalin/ norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor that increases the amount of these two neurotransmitters so I am not going too low on them between spikes reducing the physiological response to sudden increases of stress hormones.
For me this condition is a side effect / symptom of serious chronic pain especially when standing and this response is more common with high pain levels or when I am focused on a task and someone interrupts that focus. When I am focused on a task or not thinking about my pain I will, at times, react like waking a sleeping dog and appear angry when in reality I am reacting to my pain.
Thank you Kati, you made my day.
miss watching these ever week..
I feel like I have been seeing much more of these inaccurate takes and I was starting to feel like Negative Nancy! Thanks for making this!
I relate to this big time but I'm not autistic. Anxiety/panic disorder and ptsd. And bipolar 1 - mild.
I'm late diagnosed ASD and have been in therapy. While I didn't really relate to PDA at the start of therapy I feel like it's actually happening to me a lot recently now that other things I've been working in therapy have gotten better. Anyone else have a similar experience?
Thanks you,perfectly descibes Me.❤
I think defiance can be a legitimate defense to forced enmeshment and authoritarian parenting. For those who are raised by an unboundaried parent (read: smothering, manipulative, controlling, often deceptive or helicopter style) it would be understandable if their resistance were to involve some degree of sympathetic stress response and that could certainly appear defiant... legitimately. Struggling for autonomy is after all the stuff of normal development and when it is disallowed there are bound to be developmental issues that some might call problematic.
Consider the Eriksonian stages of development and what a dominated child who is thwarted at each of these stages might look like. Might they appear untrusting, shameful, doubtful, guilty, inferior, confused, isolated, emotionally and / or developmentally stagnated and full of despair? Might this person refuse to communicate, appear fearful, helpless, struggle to focus or complete tasks and avoid eye contact? Might they become persistently defiant? I think it is the strong ones that do and under these circumstances it is not unreasonable, though it could become a counterproductive habit.
misconception #5 is super important!
I didn’t know this was a thing and it perfectly describes how I feel when demands or ‘suggestions’ are given to me.
One way my partner and I have figured out how to deal with my ‘stubbornness’ is to not assign the task to someone, but present it as a way to be helpful as a choice (which was briefly touched on in this video). My partner would say something like, “It would really help me out if you could take care of the dishes. Is that something you could help with?” Naturally, I care about my partner and want to be helpful, so it usually works.
This video was helpful, I think I’m pda but there is a lot more to it. It’s the meltdowns I have when I go into the kitchen so I don’t. I don’t avoid going to the toilet when i need to go I really don’t register the need when im doing things until im busting. I don’t like the use of “we” in this video. You aren’t we. If you do have pda or ASD then sure but you should state you do.
Thank you for making this video Kati ... This was really an eye opener for me. I would really like to know where I could get a copy of the chart that you showed @ 12:40 because I feel like I have all those things. 💀🙀
Wow... Ya learn something new about yourself every day! I find it hard to understood why life in general is so damn difficult... Now I think I understand a bit better, and now I want to do so much more research on my autistic self! OMG!
Hi Kati I’m new to your channel I watch one of your anxiety videos and I enjoy it i wanted to know have you ever talk about paranoia before because I been dealing it pretty badly and there not much people who talk about it like I went through something scary and I’m scared that I’ll happen again
Hi!! Welcome to the community! Yes I have many videos on paranoia, worrying, even delusions and paranoia that can come along with depression and other mental illnesses. Just search "paranoia kati morton" and they should come up :) xoxo
My therapist recently suggested I ask myself if I should do something instead of telling myself I should do it. It gives me the mental choice of whether or not to do it.
Giving myself choices helps
Even as a small child, I felt like I was a whole being and needed to be free and not controlled. Besides. I have the same issue with myself. I know I 'have' to do something, but then I don't even want to do it when I want to do it myself. Mom always left a list of things I should do on the fridge, then I got to choose which ones I wanted to do. I do the same thing with myself now. Put a list on the fridge, then I just go pick which one I feel like doing. I try to always give myself a choice. Lists of chores to choose from and getting paid a bit for each helped.
The thing about this and every mental illness, it's NOT an excuse to be a dick, and it is YOUR responsibility to manage it and heal.
Hear, hear! 🍻
Not sure nervous system differences are mental illness.
there not excuses, the are reasons
PDA is not a mental illness
PDA is not a mental illness
I generally feel "overwhelmed" when asked to do something. The ask seems like Extra - and I'm usually already stretched to my limit with whatever I am doing most of the time. The Extra provokes a "shutdown" actually. I feel my frontal cortex shutting down.
i used to cry when i would finally follow through with tasks i knew i had to do
i felt so pathetic and out of control and like that entire day was me being pulled by a rope
i have been called entitled before i had proper language, i felt i couldn't tell anyone i was struggling so i would just have weeks where i was extremely dysregulated and dissociated
I think this explains one of the reasons why my autistic friend never wants to hang out when I ask him, only when he wants to hang out w me (which was literally only once) and one of the reasons he hasn’t kept a job for more than a year
Omg I had never heard of this and that’s exactly how I am!😱 I’ve had so many issues in my life because of this🤦♀️
thank you sooo much for this ♥i took the reverse psychology tip by putting a sticky note in the bathroom mirror that says ''brush your teeth bet you wont'' 😂
I HATE cleaning but I've discovered that what helps me is instead of thinking that I have to clean because it's messy, I'm choosing to clean because that's a way of taking control of my surroundings.
I often go into "Angry Working" if "pushed" into doing something
Wow!!!! Curious to know if there's any connection with avPD.
How can the person with PDA ever get treatment? It's usually the social feedback we get from friends or family that lead to treatment, so if they won't listen to the request/demand to get treated, how do we stop them from taking over our lives? It's not fair on the family to have to do EVERYTHING while 1 doesn't participate at all.
I have some tools and tips towards the end of the video because there are ways we can trick our brains into doing what we need to do :) And from what I have read they really do work! xoxo
@Katimorton I hear you. The tricking aspect made me feel uncomfortable at first because through all of my years of therapy I was taught to be direct communicator. My mom used to use passive aggressive tendencies and guilt to get what she wanted or needed, so I worked super hard for years to become a much better direct communicator. Now it feels like I have to lie and use subterfuge to handle the PDA person and it makes me uncomfortable! Why do I have to sacrifice my hard won comfort for them? I know you can't answer that, it's just me voicing out loud. Thank you for your response, I really value all your hardwork on these videos.
I find what can sometimes help is choices within boundaries. With therapists.. my daughter leads every session and it goes how she needs it to go, often not talking about what she needs to deal with but they do try to slip things in and sometimes can get some response from her. Play Therapy and role playing can be an indirect way to introduce a subject to talk about in the therapy because it's not directed at them but rather a "pretend" scenario about someone else, PDA'er led is the most effective.
Totally understandable, i think while these things are still being discovered and learned, there definitely isnt one or 2 answers, it's a matter of the way we word things, compromise, etc, to try to figure out what works for us and the person, which can be alot of trial and error until something does work,
Me, someone that hasn't tested for anything, so supposedly neurotypical "What do you mean this isn't just how everyone is?"
thanks for the video kaiti. but I have a question. I want to do big things in life. I still struggle with this still. will therapy give more permanent habits to keep myself or could I possibly meditate and regulate my nervous system more than others?
Feels useless > is asked by others to do things and be helpful > refuses out of insecurity of being useless > is useless
This isn't PDA
Lol! That last one, about doing nothing... I am literally watching this while trying to fall asleep because 30 mins ago i thought "I'm tired and i need to wake up early tomorrow so I'd better get to bed", and as soon as that crossed my mind falling asleep became impossible 😅
I've been accused of being super stubborn and defiant for my entire life(I'm 63), but now I wonder if it's PDA.
I was dx PTSD a few years ago. I was also just dx as an ASD/ADHD person(combined type-mostly inattentive).
Thanks, Kati! I'm going to research this 😊
You mean being a person the reason for this diagnosis because to ask a question means ODD meds get shoved down a childs throat
So to combat it for them doing nothing they now get called PDA apparently so either way meds shoved down a childs throat and I am the only one paying attention to that
Mine as well take the ODD meds and strip completely naked in class to get off of them (it worked for one girl)
I showed a video on PDA to my psychologist and she considers PDA to be the rigidity that she looks for when she does Autism assessments.
My wife and I are Autistic and when we get dysregulated demands are torturous. We also use the weekend as a way to try to relax and have as few demands as possible.
An example of what work looks like with PDA is that, I get really tired in my job delivering flowers and I also struggle with finding good places to take breaks at, because I'm usually in my car and on the road. My wife tried a few jobs and kept getting too dysregulated from the jobs that she tried, she also has really bad social anxiety too.
here's a link to the video that I was talking about: th-cam.com/video/mO-uSDIKfic/w-d-xo.html
I'm pretty sure I have PDA as part of autism, but also people pleasing as part of anxiety. So, feeling like I have to do something, or something is expected of me, feels like I'm being put through a cheese grater from the inside out and is physically painful. But also, I only ever do what I HAVE to do, because I can't disappoint other people or show that I'm struggling, and I have such a limited capacity for what I can do that there's just no energy left for the wants. So basically I go through life feeling like I'm being punished for doing what has to be done.
I have pda, haven't been diagnosed as asd but have traits of it. I did not know there was name for this. Usually ppl think you are as lazy, stubborn or too sensitive etc.
I was born with mild Cerebral Palsy, and someone suggested I might have Autism due to certain signs. Although there's no direct link between the two, they overlap in the neurodiverse spectrum. I can see myself in some Autism symptoms. Katie pointed out that I do things before there's a REAL-TIME CRUNCH. I used to attribute it to my OCD, but now it makes more sense.
PDA sounds a lot like Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria. And Reaction Formation, too.
I would guess people who do not oppose (due to punishment in childhood) - develop Quiet BPD and heavy fawning and people pleasing and being pushover and codependent.
Haha, I'm autistic, but struggle more with people pleasing. My husband, on the other hand, struggles with PDA. And my little sister always does the: I watched this movie and like it, now EVERYONE must watch it AND LIKE IT. They don't really get along. I'm very guilty of the suggesting better ways to do things, especially as we're raising our kids and I think he can do it better (toxic perfectionism). Unfortunately, this made him take a big step back in parenting. I'm working on letting him do it his way and not needing to be in control all the time. Learning about PDA has really helped me have a better relationship with my husband. And... more understanding for our 4 year old who also has it. Like terrible 2s on steroids that never end, only evolve.
i don't have pda but have autism and some issues like pda pop up a lot with me
Watching this triggered my anxiety. Maybe this is something for me to be more aware of and see if it's causing some of my issues.
I don't have autism, but I do struggle with PDA when it comes to the demand of others for physical intimacy, when I need privacy and when planning a surprise, which falls under the need for privacy.
Never heard of this. Never related to anything more in my life. I'm far from lazy. I get my sense of self worth from hard work. But it HAS to be in the order and way that I want. And there is definitely something triggering abt being told to do something, tho I don't fully understand it.
How does one develop “feeling of autonomy” if one never acts in spite of these constant mental dramas…
What works for me sometimes: if I have to get something done, instead of rewarding myself with chocolate after the task, I give myself the chocolate first THEN do the task after.
This is me all over! 😂 Time to do dishes, yay. Gets side quested. Oops, i really have to do dishes, NOW! Ugh, you know, not really feeling the motivation anymore. Why did I do that?
This also explains extremely well why my 9year old nephew refused to have a single sip of water even though he was fatigued from heat exhaustion last summer. I managed to get him some water melon instead, problem solved.