My opinion on the Phrozen Arco Kickstarter and why you shouldn't
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2024
- Sharing my concerns and observations of the Phrozen Arco Kickstarter right now.
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#phrozen #arco #kickstarter - บันเทิง
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Update, 50% off is now for the first 2500 units and the info comparison seems to confirm a camera.
can you share a source for this?
@cotonynaki800 camera you can find on the kickstarter page and the "extended" offer on the facebook page facebook.com/share/p/cxE9ytgniUYrm2R3/
And after reading again it's units and not backers lol...
I think the arco has a camera. I remember that I saw the message from the admin.
I don't kickstart million dollar company's products. They have R & D budgets for that.
Good vid, found on this topic specifically, subbed for future. I can agree w you on reason not to back for sure, but Im a bit thick :D so I'm backing as I have been on the fence for Bambu (P1S) for awhile. Configured my pledge to get what I wanted, Machine w shields, chroma as add on, comes in at just under 1k. Essentially taking the shot for the extra build space
Yeah go ahead!
I would to if i had the time and money 😉
I like that extra build volume too. Like it even better if it was bigger yet but that's why I got the neptune 4 max I guess.
Fair points, though one thing to consider with that higher than Bambu Labs price is this has a bigger print volume too. I think the prices so far are fair IF they can compete directly with Bambulabs in quality and performance (which will be a big IF until it releases of course). I love my Phrozen Mighty 8k and Phrozen wash and curing station. Felt a big higher quality and easier to use than a lot of alternatives so will be interesting to see if they can pull it off in the FDM space too.
Right now quality will be the only redeeming thing for them.
Agree with your comments. I was "offered" the special early bird pricing, and declined when I saw the shipping costs. That did it for me. But more to your points and others here who say the same. Unless this printer is a giant killer with features you can't find anywhere else, what's the point of buying something that is experimental? I don't see a good case being made to do that.
If you follow the facebook group it's total chaos about the shipping. They said that shipping was indicative and now final shipping seems to be a lot higher (apparently due to the war)
Somebody else was able to put in a pre order and it is roughly the same price shipping incl. so that's also 1 of the things you could smell from a mile away that the msrp price is "fake"
Yeah, I backed out when I found out about the shipping fees. I'll wait until it's out and stocked in the U.S. and the original price gets discounted. Maybe. But sovol's SV08 is launching soon so I may just get that.
Thanks... I was on the fence on this one and, althought will be more expensive once released, is a hard bet.... I will stick to Bambulab waiting the possible new model.
Wow, sounds exactly like the Athena 8K, but at least Phrozen is actually a printer company that has proven they know what they're doing (with resin printers, at least)...
Yup but still, caution is adviced
The flying gantry would be interesting to try out. May be the best of coreXY and stable bed like a Delta.
The curiosity isn't worth the 1Kusd to get it here though. Maybe ill catch a used review unit deal 😅
hhhh nice point to save money. But TBH I prefer to have a brand new one with the early bird price. I watch an unboxing video from one of their tester. Not kidding the Arco seems to be really solid...
Good opinion mate. Thanks
I'm also a bit surprised that there aren't more systems out for review by influencers. I opted to jump in on the kickstarter knowing I could change my level of contribution up to the end of the campaign. I'm willing to risk based on what I know from their resin printers.
I know right, i'm sure knowing Phrozen they will sort everything out but i'm afraid it's not going to be without a struggle. If you love to tincker i think you will be fine, especially with klipper.
The price is nice but I know very little about this project. Would be nice to have a solid Bambu alternative with fast tech support. Took Bambu 26 days to send me parts on a month old unit.
Early bird yes! I hope so to 🤞we need more competition.
Try a QIDI, any of the version 3, depending on your size needs. Folx in the owners forums always reporting excellent customer service and tech support. Parts ASAP if something fails. Open source Klipper no hacking needed.
You'll need a custom AMS, if that's your need. They haven't released theirs ...yet...
🤫
Ditto! I've watched the newly released demo videos. Kinda impressive. Especially the blue hands released just now in the Facebook group. Really big lol
what do they charge for shipping on kickstarter it says 0 but probly because they charge it once i get it right?
Elegoo also charged shipping on the kickstarter. But they are going to ship everything separately and that's what's making it expensive. And i think they charge you twice, once for the KS and then once more for any accessories you want and the shipping.
it says +0 shipping for the add ons its kinda stupid that it does not say how much it will be @@NoizieWorks
you can find shipping cost on there fb group and to give you an idea it's a minimum of 105$ of shipping to us and 20$ for every add on so the full kit will be around 200$
uh thats really high so the printer is way more expensive than i expected @@NoizieWorks
Yup that's the final straw.
100000% I agree with this and why my kickstarter was cancelled printer not ready for prime time
Phrozen have changed the half price shipping option now, from first 24 hours to first 2500 units. The kickstarter page also says it comes with a camera.
Great news!
There is a massive amount of push back on the comments section.
They have stated that they will have a functional unit bare of anything in July but it's not, it's junk.
There was a promo for the initial day 1 that wasn't even mentioned, Number 30 won, I was like 27.
90% of backers have stated that they are going to pull out before the end of the Kickstarter as they are all words and no 3rd party beta testers.
No Linux? It's the industry standard and no MacOS support until Q4 where everything else is supposed to done in Q4.
I told them to take down the entire Kickstarter and come back with a functional product.
They didn't have a functional product at last year's big 3D printing conference and not much has changed.
Nothing special about this project, the more they talk the more people are bailing.
I have it marked in my calendar but I might just pull pin right now as this is complete BS for any company in 2024.
If you want a Bambu labs clone to tinker with buy a SK1 or a pre-built Voron, RatRig or similar offerings.
There AMS is a joke, can only use Hyper PLA to print at the speeds it claims.
I have backed and pulled out of many promising initial products.
After a few smaller Kickstarter disasters I am weary and this needs another year minimum before they should release it.
We have demanded more than internal videos that they have promised to release.
Over and over again the same questions are met with in Q4 BLAH.
I'm pulling out.
Nothing will change in a month then they have your money.
@Fraser_Noble 100% 👌👌 if you had money falling out of your pockets i would take a gamble but right now it feels like many backers are going to get burned not knowing what they are going to get themselves into. If they are talking Q4 i don't have a lot of hope it's anything descent right now.
@@NoizieWorks it's a bit weird how the only person in the world with a demo model is a single person with a small channel in Italy, and all he's done with in the 12 days since his unboxing is a single benchy...
@robhall5622 He probably has to get permission to post anything at this moment but on the facebook page they mentioned that from the 10th of this month they are going to start and share videos so i hope there will be some influencers in the mix... If not 🤷♂️
Stationary heat bed means engineering materials who often want a hot chamber, are printing in the coldest (lowest) part of the chamber. Air temp stratification is substantial. A flying gantry for that reason will never be optimum and isn't the future. (I love Vorons and I know the 2.4 is an excellent printer. Still, I'd rather have a Triton for aforementioned reason) The K1 and K1 Max are excellent. The first batch with issues was sold out long ago. Ancient history.
Phrozen charges too much for shipping on everything. Won't purchase these highly due to that.
I got a weird vibe from this also. My bambu has NEVER worked. Bambu has sent me a new bed, lidar, hotend, and more for ME to fix. I've had to strip it down to nuts and bolts multiple times. Now I have motor, bed, calibration, and other errors on top of no first layer adhesion. I offered to cover shipping and put a full price deposit down if they would warranty it. They STILL refuse. I have had a $1500 brick since November 2022... I really want a printer that just works...
2022???
@@valentinleuci ya, I was KS backer. My first support ticket was November 2022. I've had thousands of messages since then, and they refuse to help. They've sent tons of replacement parts. Every few months, a log will tell them something else is broken. Nothing has made my printer work. They refuse to just swap the machine. They just blamed the lidar being bad last week. The p1p doesn't have lidar and can print. I know a new lidar sensor wont work..,
Damn that’s a lot of time, sorry for your experience 😢, you never changed the motherboard? Or the power supply?
Damn dude that SUCKS! Unpopular respons but you can try the following. Buy a new one from a retailer that accepts 30 day returns and send back the old unit for a refund and problem solved.
I had another follower doing the same for a creality printer. It's not nice but at this point it's the best you could do.
@valentinleuci No mobo or psu change. The issue is that the hotend is too far away from the bed. When I run the tramming program, it's like 1/8th" or more. The issue is the pronter won't put a first layer down. They've said my bed, lidar, nozels, and carbon rods are bad. I have sent them my exported logs at least 100 times. For the first 12 months of tickets, they just said to "slow down your prints". Then they finally admitted parts were bad. I've had to spend over 100 bucks just in tools and glue to install what they sent. Nothing worked. I offered to pay for the shipping both ways and put a full deposit down on a new printer if they replaced mine. It literally wouldn't cost them a penny. They still refuse. It's the most frustrating thing I've ever dealt with,
man i was really hyped about this printer. i was gonna hope on the kickstarter train but it seems a little odd with price and shipping cost, and it coming bare threw me off, id like to not tinker with it for that price and have it just work right out of box
You can back the ks and wait it out and cancel in the last days like a lot are doing right now until they come up with some proof but honestly the last "updates" are very dissapointing right now. A few pictures and 1 benchy print no color....
@NoizieWorks yeah.... id like to see something a little more promising, at this point at rather get a k1 max on sale and wait for creality ams system 😂
@@raytitone1583 😆
I don't think kickerstarter or the price is a problem. The problem is buying a companies first ever and untested unreviewed FDM printer.
I don't have a problem with the kickstarter btw
Keep saying $650 but it was $600 base price for earlybirds, and shipping is half price, so yeah maybe it gets close to $700. Also, it does include a camera. Watched this with interest but check your data. Yeah it's early and we're all still looking for data. Keep the info coming!
I plugged an update on the camera as it wasn't in the initial information.
Now it's 699 excl ship, so it's an 800+ printer without proof that the color changer is working.
To be fair, they are posting some promising videos the last days so 🤞🤞
Time to Pray...that it works. For who backed😂
Don't mixup lack of info with lack of performance. Bambo X1 in Europe costs 1500$ . I pledged for full config at 1049$ and may cancel before end of campaign if bad or no info come
Agreed. I need to see more details on sensors etc and real world reviews before I will commit this much. I'd rather spend more on a printer that I know works than gamble on an unkown.
I just dont get the overpriced part. 849$ (outside ks) without wall and ams. OK
P1P is 649$ "eh thats 200$ more"
Well yes and... no... its a 300mm machine not a 256mm one, you get 60% more build volume, and its not "free", i w
It's 850 without shipping so minimum 950 for a non closed off core xy without camera is imo expensive because in that price range you are competing with the 300mm cubed voron kits, K1max and the qidi xmax 3 al for 899 shipped that are better kitted at the moment.
@@NoizieWorks no camera? there is a check front of "built in camera" , if i get it from store i wont pay shipping. so no 850$ at least where i do live. A Voron kit atm is more like 1200$/1500$ for this kind of size and diy. K1Max/Qidi can be compared its 1000$ has wall , 150$ more get the wall option and ur a match. None of them has the ability to fit an AMS.
See the pricing is not crazy when u compare with things that are "equals"
@prettydivx camera has been added they didn't start with it and we will see. Let's wait for the reviews
They have 24 days to get independent reviews of unit before a lot of people end up dropping.
Everything about it is very sketchy.
Totally understand, they are not sending one to me that's for sure
I backed it, but will be cancelling unless something massive changes. I've seen a lot of red flags. No review units, just a "we're putting together demos soon", zero evidence of the multi colour working, the bed size is a slight lie as if you print multi color it needs a larger purge tower than usual as it doesn't eject its waste like the bambu, so no you cant do a 30x30 multicolour print.
To add to that, the one 30 second benchy from a sketchy youtube channel showd a pretty crappy quality print. Then theres the slicer, its releasing on Windows only in beta, and Mac support "might" come in late 2024 and Linux support "might" be "something we look at".
So many red flags. I dont even know what I'll be paying for shipping if I keep it as theres been zero communication on any of that on the kickstarter page or comments. They just keep pointing people to Facebook for info - but like many people, I do not use Facebook.
Oh and then theres the 'AMS' type of unit. You have to respool everything to their propriatary spools.
It's been a really crappy kickstarter. No videos from 3rd parties, not a single shread of printing in multi colour, no slicer info, just a total mess.
Oh and the worst comment from them was a mention that they are "Still working out how the printer works" - like, my dudes, you've launched this product, what the hell do you mean you're still figuring it out?!
Yes... that's why i feel the need to address it even if this not something i like to do but there is so much red flag going on that i would feel bad not trying to warn people... like you suggested,keep the KS till the end and if you feel comfortable go ahead and otherwise run away and wait for reviews.
I'm not getting one or even interested in buying a unit any time soon. If they can't even show the decency to answer an email then i thank you for your business.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
It will be not the best printer, but at that price point it will be the best, certainly better that my anycubic mega X or even any creality ;)
🤞🤞
Seen an ad on TH-cam this morning for Arco, tapped the link and the website has $59.00 for the price, I took a screenshot cause what the hail?? No mention of kick starter on the page either. Not getting a good vibe and gonna pass.
That's exactly how i feel about it... bad vibes
And a flying gantry is not good for highspeed printing of pla. Cooling will not be good enough.
Guessing we will see 👀 😏
@@NoizieWorks I thought we do already know from printers like voron 2.4 being less good for pla than the trident regarding printspeed and proper cooling. Or am i wrong?
@whyme3697 No but part cooling is also a design problem of the toolhead imo trying to keep is as light as possible but still trying to offer good enough part cooling.
Of course if you only print PLA you are better with a bed that moves and a auxiliary fan on the side like the K1. Me personally i try to avoid pla and don't use part cooling any more then absolutely needed. So depending at what you are looking to print you can adjust your printer choice.
Don't compare it with a bambu - it is an industrial produced Voron 2.4. Before buying part sets, printing parts, assembling and configuring it you can take the Arco. I back it so I don't need to build my own Voron.
Voron might not be the best example but the k1 max en qidi x max 3 are all cheaper (shipping included) with more kit then this from a brand making there first fdm printer so just know you are 100% going to be a beta tester
@@NoizieWorks I know that it's going to be not perfect in all ways. But I like also to improve my printers. I wanted that stationary print bed and the real competence for this printer is a Voron.
@johannesh.4264 if that's what you are looking for great, i'm just worried about the newbies having a bad time and a little warning that you need to remove your pink glasses before buying is in it's place especially as nobody has tested it before spending you money. Btw thanks for sharing your thoughts i appreciate it
I unpledged cause lack of informations. Now they are emailing me asking to pledge ... It's time to pay😂😅 but I don't want to pay dear😂 my wallet is close dear😁
😂 they are doing a terrible job right now which is a shame because they are definitely passionated
As always it's overpriced. But I have a question for you. What are you making there?? I saw a box with clamps there.😁
I'm making "magic" 😆
@@NoizieWorks Oh no, Noizie is going to saw a lady in half? 🤣
@@retromodernart4426 my wifi better run 🪚
@@NoizieWorks
Like all Phrozen products - pretty much the same as any other machine but more expensive with overpriced accessories. Phrozen have always been really smart by convincing everyone that they're premium when they're no different to any other manufacturer.
It's a P1 with a larger bed and no camera, and priced (about) the same ... what's the problem?
It will have a camera though. It's tucked into a corner