Ranking All of Pokémon's Retro Formats!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 57

  • @fawfulmark2
    @fawfulmark2 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Spoilers: unrestricted Base-Gym is the worst one by a country mile.

    • @UncalibratedAimbot
      @UncalibratedAimbot 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      You’re telling me that 4 Energy Removal, 4 Bill, and 4 Oak is unbalanced?

    • @fawfulmark2
      @fawfulmark2 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@UncalibratedAimbot Don't forget getting donked by a Jigglyuff that could hit for up to 70+ Damage off a DCE, Team Rocket Trainer Cards that can empty your Hand before even taking your first turn and a Stadium that can negate your Trainers...and make your opponent use them instead.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I think all of the Base formats up to maybe Neo are probably bad if I played them. Once you hit Gen 2 things look fun though, even if it is flippy

    • @drew8235
      @drew8235 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'm sad that I only ever really played during these formats, although it was mostly just Base set until I got into Magic the Gathering and left Pokemon TCG behind.
      I have since gotten into it again, but I would've liked to have been around during these older formats, especially considering the cards are now so expensive that you're basically priced out of ever playing them.

    • @UncalibratedAimbot
      @UncalibratedAimbot 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@drew8235 a lot of people use proxies when playing retro formats. No one is realistically expected to have or purchase 10+ year old cards in ptcg
      I’m still not certain why proxies aren’t more accepted in MTG and Yugioh

  • @KirbTCG
    @KirbTCG 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Not sure why, this has been your favourite video. Really good asmr weirdly enough.

  • @olivierloignon6237
    @olivierloignon6237 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I remember my friends all complaining last year that we were going to have 6 month without rotation and I was thrilled. So much possibility with the BST-PAR format. I will certainly be keeping all my cards to build a gauntlet for this format.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There are definitely formats where rotation feels necessary, but that wasn't one of them.

  • @Charmaster04
    @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I'm going to put my tl;dr at the start of my essay this time. About Prop 15/3. I am convinced that Magmar is a better attacking basic to base your Energy costs on than Rocket's Zapdos, and you can just as easily build a Fire type deck around Charmeleon and Charizard as around Blaine's Rapidash and Wigglytuff. (Fun fact; I'm actually maining Charizard/Dragonite/Dodrio on TCGONE and consider it as reliable as or more than Wigglytuff/Clefable variants, the second-rate Wigglytuff archetype.) I would also argue from recent experience (I can only remember so much of two years of playing a format) that with better decks, close-to-even Prop 15/3 games are the norm, not the exception, and now I want to make TH-cam deck profiles highlighting the most reliable decks I find in my testing. If this massive wall of text is too difficult to process, I'll probably cover most of the details in more manageable chunks in those profiles.
    I've been playing largely Prop 15/3 for the past two years. I've made a habit of playing 10-20 games a week for at least the past couple of months, and I have been encouraged by many of the developments in the format following the event at Milwaukee. As a result, I can feel my brain having a "The Importance of Playing a Fun Deck in the Pokémon TCG (dispelling misinformation on 2018 SUM-LOT)" moment right now. Interestingly, I've actually been considering creating some TH-cam deck profiles for Prop 15/3 to coincide with my upcoming PTCGLEGENDS article.
    First, about the top Pokémon. Wigglytuff is undeniable. Blaine's Rapidash is possibly Wigglytuff's best stage 1 partner, and Rocket's Zapdos is a powerful basic. However, I would argue that Magmar is both the poster child of Fire and the best "haymaker basic" in the format. Its retreat cost is low, it's effortless to set up, it can stall for time with Smokescreen to help you set up better, and it can quickly rack up damage with Smog. Best of all, it doesn't get resisted by anything. Compare that to Hitmonchan and Mewtwo. Both of them have high retreat costs and get resisted by common Pokémon, and neither of them can exactly stall.
    Next, about what makes a good Prop 15/3 deck. I would say the less you depend on Trainer cards after you get set up, the more reliable your deck is going to be. I've been playing Charizard/Dragonite/Dodrio a lot on TCGONE, and while it may sound like an inconsistent mess, it actually does a really good job because you only really need to set up two stage 1's (Charmeleon and Dodrio) and a stage 2 (Dragonite), and as long as you have a steady stream of Magmar and other basics mixed in as needed, you're cooking. For context, I'm running a 3-2-2 Charizard line, 3 Magmar, 2 Scyther, 1 Kangakshan and 1 Lickitung as my attacking Pokémon, and the Dragonite/Dodrio line for support. Without as many Retreat Cost concerns, Charmeleon is a solid side-grade the Blaine's Rapidash, and you can always evolve into Charizard to crank the heat up to 11 (a single Charizard can easily convert to 2 or 3 prize cards, especially when Dragonite/Dodrio lets you ignore status condition or Mr. Mime shenanigans, but you don't always end up needing it). Charizard/Dragonite/Dodrio is probably not quite the same tier as Blaine's Rapidash/Wigglytuff, but I would feel confident taking either to an event. Now THAT is an example of format growth! More to the point, however, I'm actually using about as many evolution Pokémon as a Blaine's Rapidash/Wigglytuff deck uses in a given game.
    And as for all your games being 5 prize sweeps, I wouldn't worry about the entire format playing out like that. I played 8 games last night. 2 of them were donks, and the other 6 developed well, with 1 of them ending with my opponent 2 or 3 prizes behind and the other 5 coming right down to the wire (I was alternating between Blaine's Rapidash/Wigglytuff and Charizard/Dragonite/Dodrio). I would say this about average. Maybe your "broken basics box"/Dodrio deck just either runs hot or burns out, but these two decks feel very stable. Incidentally, I think people whose main Prop 15/3 experience is the odd Brock's Golbat/Gengar game also lose confidence in the format. This is why I want to start making deck profiles; to point people to more reliable decks that don't brick regularly. (I'll be testing Clefable/Wigglytuff/Dodrio/Magmar/Hitmonchan as an alternative to Clefable/Wigglytuff/Dodrio/Mewtwo/Hitmonchan next, since subbing Magmar in for other basics has given multiple Base-Fossil decks a second lease on life. If it's better than Jason's Clefable/Wigglytuff/Dodrio list, I wouldn't mind making a profile on it, even if it's not as good as Blaine's Rapidash/Wigglytuff.)
    (P.S. the Blaine's Rapidash/Wigglytuff list half the players net decked technically has only 1 Super Energy Removal.)

    • @Charmaster04
      @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It's also worth pointing out that Prop 15/3 decks run 3 Professor Oak and 3 COMPUTER SEARCH, which makes finding Professor Oak that much easier, especially if you can bide for time with a Thundershock/Smokescreen attack or draw cards with Fetch. 3 Pokémon Trader also helps you find the Pokémon you want that much more easily, but I noticed this seems to be a more recent gold standard and was not reflected in the older lists that probably influenced yours.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I based my list off of a modern list, swapping out the basics for ones I had.

    • @Charmaster04
      @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WhimsicottTCG Out of curiosity, which list? From what source?

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Evolutionaries Enthusiast blog. My list obviously differed from theirs since I didn't have hitmonchans and didnt want to use wigglytuffs

    • @Charmaster04
      @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@WhimsicottTCG I know Evolutionaries Enthusiast. He's known as whiskey worship on TCGONE. His blog does a fine job showing all the strongest cards and showing how they can be combined. However, it doesn't attempt to narrow all those options down to the most reliable lists. His articles are great for testing inspiration, but probably not for going into a tournament almost blind.
      Mewtwo doesn't feel that good in Prop 15/3 anymore as it gets resisted by Wigglytuff, as well as Kangaskhan, Clefable, Lickitung, Chansey, etc., and I have determined that Psychic's play style lends itself better to a control deck. Jason has been cooking such a control deck very reminiscent of Oranguru Control that uses Brock's Mankey and The Rocket's Training Gym to try and trap a Pokémon in the Active and Slowpoke to recycle Super Energy Removal to keep that Pokémon stranded and other Pokémon from attacking, and eventually Nightly Garbage Run to keep the Slowpoke player from decking out first. It seems better than Brock's Golbat/Gengar (Which is funny, because they share many of the same basics and Trainers and even the first half of both of their strategies), and it can also utilize Gastly and Mr. Mime thanks to Psychic Energy. Fortunately Dragonite/Dodrio is an effective counter to Brock's Mankey/The Rocket's Training Gym trapping, so if I can make effective use of the more cost-effective attackers in Charizard/Dragonite/Dodrio, the matchup should probably be okay (not sure which direction it would lean, but I could win it).

  • @Charmaster04
    @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Now that I've watched the entire video, I'd like to talk about what details concerning other formats stood out to me in this video. It was interesting to learn that SUM-LOT matchups tend to have more solvable routes. I'll keep that in mind when choosing a modern format to build, since I probably wouldn't build a ton of different decks. The VS Seeker-enabled Supporter tech packages of PRC-GRI look cool (Not to mention Garbobor is a fascinating card design-wise), and I'm almost as impressed by BTS-PAR as you are, so I would probably gravitate more to one of those... but Honchkrow is just such a fun looking deck. It just toys about with the concept of spread in all sorts of ways, from damage counter manipulation with Tapu Lele to scaling Raven's Claw's power.
    At one point in the forgotten favorites video or something, you mentioned that Steelix from Stormfront was a rogue deck your friend played in the DP-SF format. How many other more unique decks would you say the format harbors?
    Also, Whimsicast, Marshadow got banned in Gym Leader Challenge lately. On the one hand, I know you've played Psychic a lot, but on the other hand, it probably makes the format healthier based on Andrew's ban report.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @Charmaster04 dpsf doesn't really have a lot of unique decks to itself from my understanding but there's just a difference in viability. Gengar SF is probably the best deck with kingdra and ttar sf trailing. A lot of 09 season decks that fell off by the end are probably the standouts

  • @deltamico
    @deltamico 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    this would look nice on a time plot

  • @zizi4941
    @zizi4941 7 วันที่ผ่านมา

    We buil decks using cards from Sun and Moon and Guardians Rising with my brother and had fun with those, we never tried standard events, only pre-releases.
    On the day of me going to the Unbroken Bonds pre-release, the store ran standard locals before it, so I thought I'd give it a try with my deck, having no clue about the meta.
    I instantly got wrecked by Pikarom decks, so I only went to pre-releases after that because of how unfair it felt to me. I completely skipped Sword and Shield, and the first time I played Pokémon again was a standard locals in Paldea Evolved.
    The more I hear about the time I was away from the game, the happier I am that I didn't play.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  7 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Yeah the Tag Team formats could be really rough to play in.

  • @drew8235
    @drew8235 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I want to go back and play all these old formats so badly, specifically 2003-2007, but 💰💰💰💰💰...

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It's a lot of money for the ex era formats nowadays unfortunately. They are playable on TCGOne though! It's a bit shabby, but it does allow you to play games of old formats digitally.

  • @MindofInstincts
    @MindofInstincts 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Been watching some of your videos and just wanted to let you know that you don't need 1,000 subscribers anymore to get monetized. It's now 500 and I think 4,000 or 3,000 watch time in the last year. Alternatively like X amount of views on shorts too.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @MindofInstincts the way they do it is that you have to meet multiple standards at a time but not all of them at once. 1000 subscribers is just another one of the standards, but it's the easiest to reach

    • @MindofInstincts
      @MindofInstincts 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WhimsicottTCG No it's not 1,000 subscribers anymore, that's what I am trying to tell you. It's now 500 subscribers.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Just looked at my earn page, it is still 1,000 subscribers

    • @MindofInstincts
      @MindofInstincts 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WhimsicottTCG Hmm idk then -- I have heard from many sources that it's 500. Maybe it's only available for new channels?

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Eligibility
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  • @Charmaster04
    @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What were those fun HeartGold SoulSilver through Black and White decks again? The ones from 2011 Nationals?

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Some of these are also japanese lists I've found: FloatStoise, MagnePlume, Cinccino/Zoro/Umbreon, Yanmega/Kingdra, LostGar, MewBox, ZPS, Bearhug, Cinccino/Kingdra/Zekrom, DonChamp, Donphan Dragons, Donphan Samurott, Tyranitar/Serperior, Tyranitar Truth, RDL Plume, PorygonZ Cinccino, Lost Mime, Weavile Stage 1s, Weavile Control, YanTurn, Ambipom Weavile, JumpluffPlume, Feraligatr Samurott, KGL Truth, Kingdra Mandibuzz
      Really Bad but fun: Sharpedo, Magmortar Mill

    • @Charmaster04
      @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WhimsicottTCG Thanks!

  • @keldeo05
    @keldeo05 หลายเดือนก่อน

    BRS-TEF is probably my favorite format as a chien-pao ex fan

  • @Infragrim
    @Infragrim 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for sharing. I enjoy 2001 format back in high school 1st time competing at them Wizard of the Coast stores but it was short lived. Those store starting closing down later that year. Didn't get back into it till X and Y Furious Fist set. I figure you rank 2010 really high lol. I don't know how you guys deal with Gardevoir and Gengar so busted. I play LuxChomp with Dialaga casually for that era.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@Infragrim there are certain techs that help deal with difficult decks, as well as good play. Many games of 2010 I win bad matchups because I can play my deck better than the opponent can play theirs

  • @Charmaster04
    @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I would argue 10 games is not necessarily enough to get a feel for a format if you just start out with the wrong deck (As I often have when trying a new format). It's easier to read the format if the deck just turns out to be straight up unplayable, but it can be harder in other cases. For example, sometimes a deck could be strong, but too high-rolly, and you might assume the format's games are all too variable.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      10 games is enough with most formats to get a general feel of them.

    • @Charmaster04
      @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@WhimsicottTCG I'll take your word for it. I still think Prop 15/3 produces more great games than no-games if you have a reliable deck. Doesn't necessarily mean you'd think it makes a good tournament format, but at least you might find decks you enjoy playing once I start documenting the decks I've been pleased by in my testing. Which, at the moment, is two decks, but I'm actively testing other decks.
      (Spoiler: I don't expect I'd be featuring Clefable for a while, as it's a double-edged sword that your opponent can stymie with Lickitung or even Doduo until they can wreck it with another Pokémon. Dodrio and Gust of Wind help you abuse it, but for a one-Energy attacker that can copy anything, it feels like a hassle to utilize effectively.)

  • @lukemullen9417
    @lukemullen9417 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Where does one find information on DP-SF decks?

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Most DP-SF stuff is lost to time on old forums. I do plan on building my own gauntlet though with lists from Mike Fouchet and adaptations of my own.

  • @CealgairPTCG
    @CealgairPTCG 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I pretty much just play Eternal. To each their own I guess

  • @CrimsonTheLion
    @CrimsonTheLion 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So you find card lock decks the most fun? That's kinda what I'm getting from this ranking.

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@CrimsonTheLion I'm not a huge fan of hard lock decks, but I enjoy decks that give me chances to play better than my opponent, so I can win by my own efforts

    • @Charmaster04
      @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WhimsicottTCG So basically you're not as much of a fan of something like a Vileplume that just sits there and stops your opponent from playing a certain type of card forever as you are of a deck like Snorlax Stall that rewards thoughtful decision making (I still don't get why people thought that deck was brain-dead. Watching Snorlax Stall players trying pick what Supporter each turn left me wondering how on earth anyone could ever determine the right turn to play Miss Fortune Sisters).

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Charmaster04 I don't really like Snorlax stall that much, its just a deck that gave me some agency over the game that wasn't headed by an orange lizard in a standard format filled with basic brainrot

    • @Charmaster04
      @Charmaster04 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WhimsicottTCG Thanks for letting me know. What would be a better example of a deck you enjoy for its ability to outplay your opponents, but which CrimsonTheLion might think was just a deck you were drawn to for being a lock deck?

  • @captain.snowman4769
    @captain.snowman4769 16 วันที่ผ่านมา

    So stage 2 or a bust for you

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @captain.snowman4769 there are formats that I like where stage 2s aren't center stage like 2018 worlds and 2014 worlds, but generally, yes.
      Stage 2 cards generally have the most interesting effects (basics are usually relegated to big smacks, stage 1s to more efficiency and abilities). Along with this, they usually get unique and powerful effects that push card design in new and interesting directions. Stage 2s also often represent comeback potential. traditionally, stage 2s were difficult to KO so getting one in play took the trade off of the slower set up away. If your formats only comeback is disrupt hand + pray, that's not great comeback potential.

    • @captain.snowman4769
      @captain.snowman4769 15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @ i simply dont see why that would be the only part of a format to make it good, imo, I find it more interesting when in a format there are multiple different decks that are playable and wete all stages of mons are working together, current format surging sparks for instance while volatile with how quick everything sets up leaves ALOT of room for experimentation, with how many decks are viable in format, you got zard, garde, and pult pulling in top placements for stage 2’s using tools like iron thorns, and noir/clops in there deck, miraidon, klawf, lost box, raging bolt, all representing basic decks that perform extremely well with a mix of basics and non rulebox pokemon, lost box, ancient box, lugia, all following a more engine based type of gameplan, quad thorns, stall, pidgeot control, being the more control based archetypes, and then drago, lugia, palkia, representing v era play, I just think that for me at least to enjoy a metagame it has to have variety, in the end it doesnt matter to much wich is the best deck but whats around it, if the best deck is a basic deck and the stuff around it is interesting thats fine, if the best deck is stage 2 and has viability in other stages of play that fine two, but basing a take mainly on the fact that theres more comeback potential and “unique” effects on a stage 2 deck doesnt paint the full picture imo, something can be hyper and still fun, as well as it can be slow and still fun, thats just me though I guess

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  15 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@captain.snowman4769 It's not that I want a format where only Stage 2s are good and everything else is dead, but Stage 2 formats naturally lend themselves to being incredibly diverse and providing space for every kind of deck to succeed. It's not that stage 2s always provide good formats, but that good formats allow stage 2s to succeed (with exceptions like current standard and 2007-08). It's very much a case of something being a sign of all of the good factors that exist in the TCG existing when Stage 2s are allowed to succeed since they're the first thing to dip out when shit gets tough

  • @Alex-gw6ie
    @Alex-gw6ie 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    scarle and violet formats have been so mid

    • @WhimsicottTCG
      @WhimsicottTCG  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @Alex-gw6ie I've enjoyed a couple of them mainly paradox rift