@@Samuel_Loegan I like what this TH-camr said about letting students make a plan to save the world type of thing. There is supposed to be way better hunters and huntresses out there in the world and yet no one is present there. The only hunter that is the best in the whole world is Ozma and yet Oscar doesn't want to let him get control of his body. Yes Ozma has no plan but he did made better plans before its just he didnt think of one for the moment. Yes there is no plan to kill or stop Salem but im sure he has plenty of plans to save mantle.
Well the whole Jaune cheated his way into Beacon jab was more on the grounds to show what exactly makes them so special that it's up to them to save the world. Like he said Ruby's a child, he's just some random orphan kid and Jaune was just some dude that got into the school by cheating and lying. He basically saying "Why are a bunch of random ass teenagers doing this shit?"
They literally just got dragged into this shit and now they can't get out. Well, they COULD get out, but then we'd have no show. That's kinda what happens when the scale gets too high and your focus characters haven't yet adjusted to it.
Ngl, the writers kinda weakened the scene. Yang was being a bitch, and the jaune burn wasn't really as good as it could've been. Plus, how did he learn about him cheating into beacon? I thought only Cardin and pyyrha knew about that. But this scene has to be one of the best in the volume right now, finally ren calls out their bullshit. It's like the writers broke the 4th wall xD.
Being a Hunter means literally nothing. Ruby and Jaune have zero qualifications, didn't even complete the first half of their crappy training and still got a license.
how is Yang gonna shame Ren for pushing people away when Blake was doing the same thing and Yang was doing it when she lost her arm?? shouldnt that make Yang understand Ren more???
@@waterpillar1977 Yeah, when I compare her character from Vol 1-3: The warm, compassionate, empathetic, somewhat motherly and occasionally temperamental girl she was, to this dour and hypocritical bitch who just seems pissed off most of the time, I can't believe they were the same person.
It doesn't really play out that way though. If it were, Jaune would tell specifically Ren to stop, but instead he says "both of you, cut it out" and similar things. Ren is NOT wrong here, the only thing the episode tries to play out negatively about him is his attitude of bottling up all of these thoughts and not having faith in his allies.
@@Double___ I'm not so sure about that, this could be another case of writers making a character act like a dick to fight the criticism. I have seen similar things in other shows like Teen Titans Go, and Thunder Cats Roar. We will have to wait and see what happens next, but I don't think the characters are going to reflect in their past actions after what Ren said, and it could probably end up with Ren apologising for the way he acted.
@@Double___ true hes been bottling all these feelings and the only one that hasnt broken through all volumes and he knows that they are way in over their heads and trying to stop salem and her whole army
@@Double___ That may be how you see it, but there are many people in the FNDM that sees Ren as someone slipping into a villain role specifically because of this one moment. I'm sure the writers are going to follow that.
That or he’s gonna be evil. I mean, his semblance is hiding emotion. Of you’re not constantly projecting your emotions about how awesome friendship is, you’re a goner or evil
IMHO, its not that his point was the problem for them - it's how he did it that Yang and Jaune object to. Neither one really refuted his claim that it was a mistake to act like Ruby would be an infallible leader - it's the way Ren says it, because it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win or even in caring as opposed to just surviving.
It's funny that ren power is to mask emotion and a composed person but he had enough of this shit. Ren best character right now shame they going to kill him off because they going to let nora find a life without ren
@@vertousofficial3735 i mean if you line the pieces together it's obvious like rooster teeth knows they going to have to kill someone off this volume and it's obviously ren or nora because rooster teeth don't have the balls to kill someone off like team rwby or a characters like Jaune and qrow. The way they lined it up last episode with nora saying she doesn't know a life without ren and ren speaking hard facts rightnow ren a dead man walking and it's funny the characters that knows they fucked or the characters that are interesting going to get screwed this volume. Like ironwood watts going to stab him in the back or qrow and Robin kills him while winter and the ace ops leaves him. Penny who's questioning what she should do going to get hacked and know ren who's sick of this shit is going to get killed off for nora development.
Be careful not to tell certain "fans" that you like/prefer the side/support characters over the main cast... They'll bombard you to death with several paragraphs of pure cognitive reprogramming then sacrifice your remains to their chosen ship cult.
Ren: "You got Pyyrha killed!" Yang: "Ren! How could you say that?!" Ren: "Because he threw a tantrum instead of calling for help, and you betrayed *us*, and *your own* team! Thousands of people are going to die because you thought it wise to go behind all our backs and make things worst. Why?! You belittled Ruby for her leadership while you sabotaged it in the first place. WHY?!" Yang: "And you would have done better?!" Ren: "No I wouldn't have! That's my point! I let the relic fall into the hands of Salem because I wasn't prepared to attack someone wearing Nora's face, even though I *knew* it wasn't her, I still couldn't do it. I wasn't ready for this! None of us are! And the only person we had left who could have helped us, guided us, we fucked over and you are somehow proud of it all!? Every death going forward is blood on our hands, has been on on our hands since Tyrian's massacre at Robyns assembly which you despite advocating nonstop for her, you didn't even bother defending when we *knew* her supporters were being attacked. *Why weren't you there?!* " Yang: "H-hey I have a life outside being a Huntress and Ironwood gave us downtime! Why shouldn't I take it?!" Ren: There is no downtime being a huntsmen! The grimm don't stop, not until we are all dead! The only reprieve we have is waiting for the next attack from them. They don't care if we want to go dancing with friends or loved ones, they don't care if we want to have families and grow old together, they don't care if we are a rookie or a prodigy like Pyrrha! The only thing that drives them is killing us every second of every day and if we aren't mounting a defense with the same single minded tenacity we are half assing being protectors and *look* where that has gotten us so far!" Yang cocks her gauntlets assuming an offensive stance. Yang: Enough! Jaune:..Guys!" Yang: No Jaune, I've had enough of Ren's shit, *we* made the right choices!" Jaune: "GUYS! GRIMM! Jaune gestures to the massive horde slowing surrounding the arguing group. Ren: "...Best thing we have done since got here really, luring a bulk of the horde from their attack. ." Ren closes his eyes momentarily. "Lets see that there's few that make it back to the city. We owe every life still there that much."
This could possibly be the best ren fanfiction moment in the show, remember Ren can cloak them, meaning they could start killing the horde after attracting it with minimal danger to their lives.
@@sebas8225 Yeah it could have been a strong character moment for him and the time, instead the grimm ignored them and they ignored the river of grimm.
Woops, a character was self aware and reasonable? He’s gonna like, murder a child or something just so the writers can show that only awful evil people question the might of team RWBY
...Ok, i kinda hate it when people sell something off as something it's not like this. If iron wood would just listen to RWBY and visa versa, talk about which stratagy is better and just work together (which is literally the thing that weakens grim or something) then they wouldn't be against eachother in the first place. (I don't pay way to much attention to the detail or the show itself, correct me if i'm wrong)
@Al3xh413 The deal with Oz is they can now kinda trust him, after they learned "what he was not telling them" from Jin, giving them reason to trust him. Sure Alot of RWBY's actions may appear that way, but they only appear that way from the laws that made them illegal and other factors at play. Laws should only apply if it serves the purpose they were men't to serve: if you kill someone in self defence, it's for the greater good and if you steal a ship that's assosiated with one of your members family, give information to a group that's just doing what they think is right to get them on your side and change there course of action for your benefit, and whatever else they did for the greater good, it should be forgiven yet explained first, of which ironwood wouldn't let them getting hostile and making them fugitives. Iron wood is part to blame for that.
@Al3xh413 Damn, you hit it out of the park three times here. I pretty much agree with everything you said in this comment thread, especially about Team RWBY lying to Ironwood, which I have to wonder if the fact that they're outright hypocrites and gave Oz so much flack for his secrets will ever come up and they'll be called out on it. You know, a moment of realization that they've literal done what they condemned Ozpin for or another character spelling it out and them going "Oh shit! You're right!" What am I saying? That's not going to happen.
@Al3xh413 Yup. The writers want there to be moral greys and complexities in the story, yet have the characters remain in a black and white mindset and always right (despite obviously being wrong in several cases), resulting in narrative being pulled in 2 directions and the story filling with blatant contradictions and conflicting elements. Nothing makes sense anymore (not that it has for a while now). Rwby wants to have its cake and eat it too regardless of how little sense it makes story wise. Just awful writing all around.
As satisfying as it was to hear Ren say it, I 100% expect him to be "proven" wrong in a way that invalidates him or his point. A character might be on the chopping block because he pointed out that the protagonists messed up. Also, Yang's responce to a friend who's clearly stressed and upset about a bad situation was to lose her shit and belittle his feelings every step of the way. She is an extremely toxic person to have in a friend group.
Right?? In the middle of a tundra where bad moods could attract eldritch horrors and you lack the very thing that keeps you all safe, you choose then to force the issue your typically withdrawn friend has been having for what's implied to be months. Ren's whole arc here seems to be about wanting proper direction and the time to grow into being a proper professional, we see it with how quickly he picks up being an operative under Ironwood
To be fair with Yang, I think they're all stressed and also punching themselves for losing Oscar, and it's making them even more cranky. It's already been a series of unfortunate events for them since the fall of Beacon with no hope of them finding any good solution.
@@relic5752 "Ren is literally the ONLY defense we have against getting fucked with by Grimm out here due to his semblance. Which requires him to be calm as hell.....I'm gonna piss him off. Cuz I'm a Genius."
Ren is the only logical character left in the show. So much like how the writers butchered Ironwood he will soon be dealt with probably by lethal measures.
You need someone who can see both perspectives, and in that, that person takes charge because what you need is Unity. Division makes you weaker, there's no clear leader, Ironwood is currently making the same mistake he did at Beacon, Ruby is naïve and young. Ren had a good point, things havent gone smoothly... Wowzers you dont say...They're way over their heads...no shit sherlock their kids and I could bet you 10million dollars they'd rather be in class at Beacon, but every turn they make they feel they have to correct mistakes those in power have made.
@@user-qe1ys4vj2d At this point think the team is being set up for a BIG loss much like beacon. Maybe it will force Ruby to further mature...I know her character is based around her being hopeful and plucky but when you raise the stakes and the seriousness of the situation past a certain point that starts turning into a liability unless you can back it up. Ren is scared someone is going to get killed because someone WILL get killed at this rate.
@@benjaminbierley2074 Someone will get killed at this rate? Yes, that would be the logical way to go, but considering these are the RWBY writers I would be doubt the chances of that happening. At best 1 of them will die. Thats it. Which should not be the case considering Salems army.
Ren is definitely doing the series some justice. In cast where basically everybody is in constant agreement with one another (despite how ridiculous some of their plans get), having at least ONE character actually take note of wth is going on, and giving a very understandable response is such a breath of fresh air. I am so glad someone is becoming upset with all the nonsense they're doing. It's about time someone of them is able to step back and lay down the hard truths of the situation. I cannot fault the characters for their hopefull-ness or desire to keep going despite their mistakes. But often times it comes across as if they don't believe they've made any mistakes at all. Ren being frustrated is so justifiable.
THIS, definitely love how they’re adding more differing opinions rather just good side vs bad side (unfortunately they’re not really doing that for ironwood) I do wish that scene where they showed Ren saying yes sir to ironwood was actually fleshed out, I mean this volume has done a good job of showing ren’s irritation but that scene felt very out of place back then and in the context of volume 7
on top of everything that was happening, its funny that the only reason ren spoke now was because yang didnt know how to take a "not now" as an answer.
@@Madikay27 Thanks! I agree. I personally would have liked for a bit more discord among them, but I think V7 did well enough by having at least half of them genuinely question Ruby's actions (it's kind if ruined by them never bringing it up again, ever. But I mean, at least there's something. And I prefer not to be a Negative Nancy xD) I too would have liked to see a bit more of Ren from his apparent overt willingness to follow Ironwood. But...at least we're getting some things now? Hopefully it'll spill over into the following episodes.
I used to love Yang for her fun, energetic, slightly suffocating, but understandable sisterly affection for Ruby, but now? What a waste of a character.
worst thing is when Yang asks if 'she' will think less of her, Jaune says no, thinking she means Ruby, but she replies with "yeah, Ruby..." strongly implies that she is thinking about Blake. lol she doesn't really care for her sister or her uncle in this situation.
that's cause she's none of that anymore usually character development means adding to a characters complexity not taking away yet I see people say "oh but they are sisters, they don't have to show it all the time" I could say the same about her "relationship" with Blake, they don't have to remind us all the time of that either
I like the implications that any competent character is doing everything they can to avoid being in the plot. They all understand that team RWBY is some reality-altering horror that ruins anyone around them.
Admiral Ramirez what do you mean? The least marketable and popular member of the team in a series with dwindling interest being killed off just to regain audience attention? That would never happen.
well it is working Ren in Volume 8 is really getting on my nerves at the moment he is second only to Ironwood on my "pleas let him die" list I mean being critical of their situation is one thing I´m all in on that but he doesn't have to be a bitch about it it is even stupiter that he starts thinking all this now after he was six Volumens long a guy who had the role of the harmoni bringer of the group with a little bit of monk flavor + someone who happily followed orders from someone who cheated his way into school I mean Yang told Ruby that her decisions were wrong but she didn´t start spraing venom at everyone around her
@@MJsMind I think what yourself and other people get wrong is that he's just thinking this now. As harmony bringer, he doesn't want to be the one to start fights. Hell, he didn't want to talk and yang kept poking him, even I get mad at that. If I don't want to talk now, let me simmer and I'll talk about it when I'm calmer, otherwise, you are gonna get hurt. He's had hints of not thinking they're ready since the last volume is when it became obvious, but even with the nuckelavee he didn't think they were enough to handle it. He follows orders to avoid upsetting the harmony of the team. As for spitting venom, he's just spitting facts. I admit the Jaune one wasn't needed but yangs biggest thing has always been arrogance (relying on her semblance and getting her ass handed to her multiple times, until Taiyang just told her she needs to get better). And its that arrogance that ultimately made her think she DESERVES to know what ren is thinking not concern. Even Nora had the decency to respect Ren's decision to take a different course of action. Meanwhile, the moment someone puts on a thinking cap and questions yang (at any point in the series) her first response isn't introspection and questioning the point like a mature adult (even a second of it would be nice), but to go on the defensive and half the time fight. I'm not saying I agree with the way Ren handled it. It would have been more in character to have him take in a deep breath, calm down then go on a calm but firm tirade of every stupid thing the team has done (cause there's a lot of it). But knowing rwby writing ren's gonna be in the wrong because the power of love and friendship always wins in the end and there aren't really lasting consequences in this world that don't have a quick fix. I mean they encounter the BBEG this volume and they're probably gonna pull some win out of their asses. To put that in DnD terms. They're level 6-8 (tops) characters who are encountering the final boss of the module who is level 20 and have not and probably will not experience absolutely crushing defeat. I hope to god I'm wrong, but I don't have high hopes for realistic scenarios and responses to actions in this show. Also maybe ren is scared about losing someone else (as that is his trauma) and that's getting to him, but no looking into character motivations here. Just hating anyone who uses logic right?
I love how everyone treats Ren like the bad guy when Yang is the one who forced Ren to talk about something stressful in a life threatening situation, arguably the worst time to try something this heavy. The fact that Yang couldn’t just hold her temper until they actually found shelter says a lot about her current, supposedly smarter character.
yeah tge worst he did was take some prodding to admit he didn't know the answer to a question beyond that it was obvious he was actively trying not to start something
@@KokaKola633 it's not in reference to his sexual preferences, being "the straight man" is person who calls everything exactly how it is and usually doesn't joke around/be the joke like other characters might
@@KokaKola633 Its a story writing mechanic, ie think pinky and the brain or Vagetta to goku. the idea is to create contrast by making to extremes Reason and a kinda chaos this can let the viewers see a plot point, Comedy or in this case an argument for the characters being to deep in stuff they cant win. NOTHING TO DO WITH GENDER OR SEXUAL PREFERENCE, straight in this context means logical and man is just referencing that its a character trope. although i dont blame you if you made that connection the names a little out dated tbh
@@KokaKola633 The straight man is a trope originated from comedy, where there will be one or more wacky goofy characters (for example Sokka and Aang from Avatar) and then one serious or at least less goofy character to counterbalance (for example Zuko from Avatar) The straight man's job is to go "what the fuck are you guys doing" when the funny characters are doing the big funnies, so the straight man's confusion or irritation adds to the joke. Often times the formula will be the funny man doing some crazy thing that makes the audience laugh, then it cuts to the straight man who facepalms and shakes his head. It's called the straight man in reference to "playing it straight" where you take a joke or situation completely seriously, so the straight man is the one who is always playing it straight
It makes me angry how Ren's development shows how the writers know how to make an usually sane man can derange, fall into despair, and go crazy against his comrades. But they didn't use that *good* writing on Ironwood, the one character that needs it the most.
@@megly146 Dude, I just watched a video about Spec Ops: The Line, about how the protag goes in to stop the bad guy but goes insane as he makes harder and harder decisions until he ends up literally burning a mass of civilians and then _denies it_ because he's a _good person, damnit!_ a _hero!_ I don't know, seems pretty interesting how RWBY reflects that, however unintentionally.
Keep in mind that Ruby straight-up lied to Ironwood and destroyed not only his faith in people but Oscar's as well (Ruby lying seemed to break the poor kid's hope that she'd learn from Oz's mistakes, and that led to not only him defying her to tell Ironwood the truth but to his apparently deciding Ozpin's more trustworthy than her now by hiding his reawakening from her). What Ruby did to Ironwood's arguably far worse because he finally started trusting the group and it bit him the ass because he only learned about the lie after (in his mind) giving people a false hope that they could maybe win against Salem - IMHO, it makes sense Ironwood would suffer a worse breakdown of trust in people than Ren.
I think it's more a double-edged sword, honestly - there’s a pro *and* con to it. For the con, the way Ren says it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win as opposed to just surviving. *That,* more than anything, seems to be what Yang and Jaune took issue with. On the flip-side though, one can also argue that Yang and Jaune are so focused on the “we still have to try/we can't just give up” aspect that they’re trying to avoid acknowledging the hubris they committed in blindly treating Ruby like she’d know what she was doing - the moment Ruby chose to hide the truth from Ironwood, they basically became hypocrites because they just sat there and enabled her to do exactly what they turned on Ozpin for… for no other reason then “we know her” and “she keeps us in the loop” (even though she seemingly didn’t consult them about hiding the truth and made that decision on her own, given Yang’s concern in V7 - only thing different from Oz is that she let everyone know what she’d done). Wrongheaded as one can possibly call Ren for all but openly suggesting they abandon Mantle as a lost cause… Ren does make a valid point that they’ve never really known what they were doing and that it’s not really turned out well for them outside of Haven, given most or all of Ruby's plans to this point have gone wrong constantly and only end in their favor by dumb luck. When I look at Ruby, a quote from Jonathan Stroud’s “The Bartimaeus Trilogy: The Amulet of Sammarkand” comes to mind, when the story’s namesake demon-protagonist chastises the human-protagonist/his summoner for getting his teacher and said teacher’s wife killed in his game of payback towards another mage; ~ _“It isn't justice or honor that drives you now, boy, but _*_guilt._*_ You can't take the consequences of your actions. You seek to drown out what you've done”_ ~ To me at least, this encapsulates the impetus for Ruby’s actions in the V7 finale and V8 - in V6, she was getting pretty big-for-her-britches in talking about how they’ve come far without Ozpin, and it immediately came back to bite her when their plan caused a fight with the Atlas military that scared the townspeople of Argus and drew a Grimm Leviathan to them. This is that but tenfold - Ruby lied to to Ironwood, seemingly losing faith in authority figures after all the veteran huntsman became broken pedestals to her (Qrow for being a drunk, Oz for being a liar, Lionheart for being a traitor - hell, maybe even her own mother for dying on her) and now, in desperation to fix it, she’s trying to save both Mantle and Atlas even if it jeopardizes the chances of _anyone_ getting out alive by keeping the Winter Maiden away from the Staff of Creation along with splitting Atlas' efforts between her rebellion and Salem's invasion. IMHO, Ren was wrong to act like they shouldn’t try to save people or should just let it go… but at the same time, he’s not wrong to point out they haven’t really had a good track record of things working right under Ruby’s leadership. And I think it's kinda telling that, for all her agitation at Ren seemingly giving up on Mantle, she doesn't actually deny his point about Ruby being a kid in over her head - as if maybe some of her anger is because she knows he's right and that it's partly their fault for just letting Ruby take that responsibility anyway. Or in short; IMHO, Ren was all but openly saying they should just give up and focus on saving who they can, and I think he was wrong to do that or to use his friends’ personal failures as the fuel for it… but just because he was wrong to do that, it doesn’t mean I think he was wrong to question the inherent hubris in the group treating Ruby like she’d have all the answers or make all the right calls any better than Oz. IMHO, it all comes down to whether you think Ren’s pointing out the flaws in the blind faith they gave Ruby was worth him darn-near forsaking Mantle’s people and weaponizing his friends’ mistakes to make that point - that’s a call each viewer’s gotta make for themselves, I think ^_^;
In the first episode Yang said that Ruby's decisions weren't good. When Ren says the exact same thing, she's in denial of it. Can't keep continuity for even three episodes. Ren speech would have worked if this show hasn't already been far gone. For all we know, this could be set up for one of the following: 1. Ren is going to die. 2. The team goes against Ren and then Ren has to apologize to the group for his actions. 3. (Least likely to happen) Ren is right and the group face the consequences of their actions. We will wait and see what happens and hope CRWBY don't screw this up.
Am I the only who wants to see Salem win? The twist ending is the only one I'm looking forward to anymore. She could probably turn all of the cast into grim dogs and take them all for walks in a Chibi anime style.
I feel like this is going to boil over into Ren defecting to Ironwood's side once he sees what happened to Nora, buuuutttttt _yeeeeeaahhh_ that's... not gonna make his chances of survival look good if that's the case.
"Where are all the other huntsmen?" Sshhhhhhhhh Vex. Other huntsmen are only allowed to appear to be jobbers. I mean, just imagine if there were people as strong as pyrrah just walking around. Somthing might actually get resolved by someone OTHER than the main characters! Can't have that!
Well, that's the irony - we *already know* where they are; holding position in Atlas so that Ironwood can save most of the combat-capable population by annexing Atlas from the rest of the world... or at least that's his plan. Worse is that any of them operating beyond Atlas right now (including the Ace-Ops) are probably *busy chasing **_RWBY, Penny & JNR._* While most of the huntsman are probably fortifying Atlas itself against Grimm, only the elites like Ace-Ops are probably acting beyond Atlas itself right now... and instead of scouting the Grimm or slowing them down, they're having to hunt down their own Maiden so that they can make sure there's even an out if Atlas's forces can't repel the Grimm. Sure, Ruby wanting to save both Atlas and Mantle is commendable... but in stealing away the Winter Maiden, Ruby locked off the Staff of Creation to Ironwood and is basically forcing him to stand his ground against Salem's invasion - hell, one could argue she's practically *blackmailing* Ironwood to either protect everyone or die trying by keeping Penny out of his custody. So now Ironwood's basically forced to divide his forces and attention between hunting Ruby's rebellion and preparing for the Grimm, because in his mind its better to save Atlas (and by extension, the majority of combat-ready people/huntsman) than lose both Atlas and Mantle - especially given that... well, Ruby hasn't exactly given him reason to trust people anymore, now has she...? ^_^;
@@mrmetroid1078 youre mistaken about the scale of the fck up on rubys part. salem wants to gether the relics, which will make the gods return, which will wipe humanity, cause you know, humanity is still unworthy at this point. so theyre not only risking atlas, theyre risking the whole world.
@@firefox30570 Actually, I think Oz, Oscar, Tyrian, Mercury, Emerald and Hazel are the only ones aware that Salem's end-goal is to straight-up end the world rather than ruling it. So I don't think that part's fair to consider when it wasn't part of the reasons for why the groups made their choices. That said, even putting that aside I think that's kinda the same thing still - like I said before, Ruby's kinda caused the schism for Atlas herself because she's so fixated on "fixing the problem" that she's arguably not rationalizing if the problem *can* be fixed, much less if the alternative isn't actually worse in the long run or not. Even in the most recent teaser she asks "How do we fix it" - not "can we" or "should we" - which suggests that even now she still has the belief she can find a way to save everyone... and the one who has to tell her to slow her roll and focus on the smaller picture/the problems in front of her isn't her teammates and friends but a *relative stranger* (i.e. Klein).
@@firefox30570 Your correct but if you look throughout the comments this person is trying to argue with everyone who has legit criticism about the show.
Ren’s line about Jaune cheating his way into beacon, may not have been relevant for a while, but I did love it because it furthers his point that none of them are in any place of authority to be dictating how an entire city should be saved. For us it’s been almost 8 years, for them it’s been barely 2, and yet they still got their huntsmen licenses, which Ren acknowledges as BS.
@@GothicOtaku33 The best case scenario would be that he could replenish his own aura. But given that he hasn't done that yet, I guess he is just a support with a limited supply of heals and no self-sufficiency.
@@ShadowMasterLuigi right? Even looking at the clips of the scene, I just facepalmed...and that’s coming from a former fan of the show. When she said “Yeah...Ruby...”, that’s just cold. Yeah u make the BUMLB shippers happy but...bruh. Did they forget that Yang and Ruby are SISTERS? Ok HALF sisters but still they’re sisters nonetheless.
@@BWEEOOP they no longer have that sisterly bond since they reunited in volume 5; no, I’m not blaming BUMBLB in this one (cause let’s face it shippings are everywhere in this show...a lot of “will they won’t theys”, few “legit” ones and things that don’t make sense but people just ship them just cause)…I blame the writers for clearly ignoring that fact. Heck, RWBY Chibi still kept that factor on, why not in their own main show? =^=
its just sad they had this amazing set up for Yang's character. She idolizes Summer as her super mom and loses her when she was too young to do anything about it and her actual mom wanted nothing to do with her for most of her life. She then internalizes this to step up as Ruby's mother figure. There's a lot to work with there but for whatever reason she won't stop obsessing over Blake who has actually done nothing to earn this level of attachment and honestly Blake is the only one who resembles Raven, someone Yang demonizes. It's just kind of ironic that Yang lectures Raven for not caring about her or anyone, but then Yang isn't even remotely concern about Ruby at any point after volume 2.
like many other rwby youtubers that acuttaly enjoy the show say that yang does not always need to care about her sister like comon so shes just going to ignore the rest of her team
Well some people say Yang thinks Ruby and her will eventually get over it. Whatever disagreement they have is small by comparison to the love they have for each other over the years. I don't know what they're fighting about. I only consume this show via short reviews and videos commenting on it. Like this one. I stopped watching when they killed Adam. For me that fight felt like they were killing potential and pushing 2 characters who barely interacted with each other, together romantically. I don't necessarily agree with that idea though. It sounds like an excuse to me. Like they're only making an excuse to validate the ship. I may not recall the specifics of their fight, but if I got into a fight recently with my sister and I'm going to a place where I might die I'd probably be thinking about what I would've done differently, was that fight worth it, does she hate me, will I ever see her again. I'm surprised Yang isn't making gallows humor during a situation like this or intentionally setting death flags.
Yall obviously never had a sibling growing up. No matter how much we may disagree we fucking love each other til the end. Thats why she was worried about Blake because the way Adam made decisions that were bad for the white fang. Shes worried Blake will think she's acting similar to how Adam acted. We can't forget the trauma they both experienced. Like it or not bmblb aint fan service. Monty said he always planned for their to be a main lgbtq+ ship in the show. This is what we get Now suck it up buttercups
One of the most hollow characters until now suddenly became the best character, in any other show, this would be a great sign, here is only a sign about how much the writers don't understand what they are doing
I disagree on the jaune cheating being irrelevant. His whole point is that their inexperienced, ruby might be a kid but she's at least had proper training. Jaune hasn't had any if that, he couldn't even pass the bare minimum requirements to get into beacon so he's arguably the leats qualified to know what to do next because he's been only been doing this for about a year. Everyone else might also be inexperienced but jaune is by far least
Although Ren's point should have made sense since he was calling out each one's cons, it seems off at that moment because he refers to something that happened years ago. His lack of skills then doesn't apply to the present. Ruby's inability to make the right decisions because she's way too young, does, however, as long as the other things he said.
It's irrelevant because it never mattered and it still doesn't matter. What is Ren acknowledging this going to do? How does it matter to the narrative going on? It doesn't, bevayse unless team ewby loses, then juane cheating his way in doesnt mean anything, especially when despite this, Juane has succeeded in being the planner
@@BabyGirlTiny mate come on I love jaune but he's not exactly sun tsu. His plans consist mostly of doing the sane thing harder and steal an airship. And if we're talking irrelevant arguments why is Yang trying to pick a fight in the first place. Ren clearly just wants to focus on getting back and moving forward. Whys she gotta start a fight
@@chrishart5265 and those plans worked, so who cares if he’s not Sun tsu. Hell, Ozpin knew he cheated and still made him the leader over Pyrrah, because we’re supposed to see that there is something in juane that makes him perfect to be a leader, and that’s his strategies and plans. And a lot of things are irrelevant in this series that they bring up. Hell, Yang and Ruby’s fight is irrelevant, because Yang doesn’t care about it, and Ruby doesn’t seem to have any issue with it. So why are they in conflict with one another, when all Yang had to say was, I want to focus on this, you can focus on this, and Ruby would have probably been okay with it.
I like how Yang brought up the leviathan and Haven but for all the wrong reasons because it just makes her look oblivious in my opinion. The leviathan was the ultimate result of the cluster fuck of a catastrophe that their plan (unintentionally) lead up to. They didn't do shit to the leviathan. They won because Ruby had the /KillAll keyboard command (that didn't even kill it) and Cordovin was the one that actually took it down and stopped the thing from wrecking Argus. Speaking of which how is Argus even doing? We don't even know if it's a pile of debris and bodies right now or not. For Haven, they were getting their asses handed to them the entire time until it took a whole civilian militia and literally an entire police force and a maiden with a ton of experience to actually turn things around and win it. They practically had their hands held toward the end. It's like that scene in DBZA where Trunks does all the work and brutalizes Frieza and Krillin is like "Good work, team!"
Not to mention originally Rwby were gonna just abandon Argus to the leviathan after disabling Cordovan's mech RT's trying to paint their protags as selfless heroes going around trying to save everyone but so far it's all been them have to clean up their own messes and hald the time they don't even finish it Rwby: don't abandon mantle they'll die Rwby again: Let's trap atlas in the sky so they can't be saved, then abandon mantle ourselves for Oscar whilst it makes sense to want to save oscar, you're being hipocrits, you were shitting on Ironwood for doing exactly what you're doing
I feel like they ruined Yang's character even more by forcing her to be the one opposing Ren's views. Not like there is much for her anyways, but I feel the writers made her be the one to argue just so Ren could keep going and pointing out more and more stuff that they've messed up on.
One thing that I think is interesting is that when Ren “yells” he isn’t really yelling. I feel like some people would call that bad voice acting on Neath Oum’s part, but I don’t think that’s the case. It really shows that Ren’s voice isn’t capable of reaching a certain volume when truly angered because of how rarely he ever gets truly angry. His vocal chords aren’t used to the strain, and so instead of shouting, his voice becomes raised and clipped. I don’t know why I noticed that. I just thought it was kinda interesting.
of coures they gonna kill off more of Jaunes teammates over stupid shipping , this is going to piss everyone off , am still going to think that Nora is going to die or both of them die
"we were holding back" lol nice save there RWBY writers imagine having a 6 man high school wrestling team fight 6 of the best Navy Seals. Unless the Navy Seals straight up throw the match, holding back wouldn't make much of a difference.
Even in anime. If the power gap is too high, "holding back" will, in the best case scenario, result in a lucky hit before being curbstomped. Holding back shouldn't give them a pass unless they were hiding super secret techniques or a "transformation". Especially not when they have a dude who can freeze anyone he wants.
@@LuisRodriguez-tp8rz on top of that, unlike other anime that try to have a progression tiers of fighters, RWBY has auras. You'd think if the battle was going in team RWBY's favor the Ace Ops would put more effort and waste them Or hell because Team RWBY has auras, the Ace ops should just go all out immediately and restrain them when their auras were gone There's just no excuse this retcon is just a piss poor attempt to cover up how much the writers fucked up. Among countless other fuck ups
There was honestly no way Ren could have pulled the “And you let Pyrrha die” move, because he isn’t the type to hurt other people to make a point, and because he would never, ever recover from the hate the fandom would slam him with for it.
Jinn: and now the part of Ruby will be played by a Scary evil and ugly old woman......... Only Disney fans will understand the reference I just made lol
Ren actually acknowledges that they’ve messed up and that they are making the wrong choices, and yang being the one that’s mad annoys me because all 3 of them got their asses handed to them by Salems Grimm dog, thing
Well, technically it's Yang's fault for dragging the argument out of him, them fighting out in snow with limited aura wasn't the best idea considering it could attract grim
he waited till the worst possible outcome came out to actually say anything and even then it was when Yang kept poking him does he actually talk, not that it matters at the moment. I blame it on the show having way too many characters that they never give anyone a chance to to actually develop, if the cast the was shorter then I could actually see Ren debating with Ruby about how to leading and what to do with the Ironwood situation at the very beginning before all hell brakes loose. But then again not talking has always been Ren character flaw (it's why his semblance is the way it is).
@@tamiej.5558 Actually, given everything that's happened... I'm not so sure. Hell, *Yang* doesn't even deny it - she gets pissed at Ren suggesting they give up on Mantle or that them making mistakes means they shouldn't keep trying... but neither she nor Jaune denied it when he called Ruby out for being a kid that they just let take charge of everything.
@@mrmetroid1078 I don't think he was saying they 'give up' on Mantle. At least, that isn't what I got from his rant. I got that he was scared and didn't know what to do, and didn't trust that Ruby or Yang or Jaune or anyone knew what to do. I feel it might've been conveyed better if Yang had straight up asked him that: Yang: "So, you're just saying we should give up on Mantle?" Ren: "I'm asking: how are we supposed to save it when we couldn't even save Oscar?!" This wasn't an argument where one of them could come out the winner. Both sides had legit points to them, but at the end of the day, Ren was lashing out because he was scared and didn't know how to convey his fear in a healthy manner, and Yang escalated the situation by responding to his fear with anger. It's honestly kinda sad, when you think about it. :'(
@@johnking9943 He was advocating that they didn't know what they were doing and that, as Yang pointed out, they should just give Ironwood what he wants - and what he wanted was to separate Atlas from Mantle, thereby leaving everyone there to die. That is, quite implicitly, suggesting they're in the wrong to try and save Mantle - and what made Yang so angry was that his reasoning for it is based in self-depreciation over past mistakes, rather than if it's really the best to do or not. So; right idea about them lashing out on each-other because of high-strung emotions, but what Yang and Jaune took issue with was more why Ren started that argument than what he said - because frankly speaking, none of them deny his point that they don't know what they're doing; hell, Yang didn't comment on Ren's low-key diss of Ruby being "just a kid". Their problem was with the idea of just giving up on people - that, as Jaune's conversation later would suggest, they shouldn't stop caring about what they think is best or fighting for it just because of past mistakes; that they can't just let others decide it all for them (which arguably suggests Jaune has *also* come to see the group's past implicit trust in Ruby's judgement to have been a mistake).
@@mrmetroid1078 True. Like I mentioned, it wasn't an argument that anyone could really win. And it's not a bad thing that Jaune and Yang want to keep the people of Mantle from dying. If anything, it's incredibly noble. It just feels like Ren was trying to ask 'how?' in response: "You want to save Mantle? Fine. How do we do it?"
This is like those harem anime The side character have allot of character until they get the attention, soon join the group, and lose all the good things of them
20 bucks that he'll "become crazy and join Ironwood", then fight against Nora and ending up dying because of the fight or trying to save Nora from "the crazy Ironwood"
@@BluemoonLacrymosa Right like where are they!! It’s so weird how huntsmen disappear cause I feel goodwitch would have least had a handle on this they could’ve even gave her an interesting arc with he disillusionment with ozpin and guilt with how they handle beacon
I just didn't like Yang's approach at all. Why was she provoking Ren, instead of comforting him? Aren't they friends? Isn't negativity a bad thing for everyone? Why do something that will spread it?
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 She was never that bad in regards to her temper. Vol 4 and onwards, Yang is unreasonably angry and threatening toward her allies more than her enemies
@@carbodude5414 yeah while she was hot headed in volumes 1-3 she was more soft towards her friends now she feels like the one who starts bad situations.
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 From V1-V3 she had a temper. But it was just that. A bit of a short fuse but it burned out pretty quickly. Now, she's a full on bully. She punches down and berates anyone who stands against her and her Mistress Bitch-Kitten. In every damn way, she is as bad, if not worse than Adam. Is this Blake's real Semblance? Does being around her turn once decent people into raging Simps like radiation causes tumors and cancer?
@@carbodude5414 there is a part of me that wishes I could defend this with the fact she lost her arm at the end of vol 3, that her already quick temper was made even worse by her trauma to the point of lashing out at even her family and friends, but sadly I cant do that since the show did so little with that aspect of what her character could have been that it feels like trying to thread separate ideas together that have little to no ties
There sheer balls on her saying that when she's pushed so many people away that her own sister's safety means nothing to her when she still worries over Bitch-Kitten. AKA, the only thing she cares about anymore.
Something else that makes me angry; Yang started all of this. Ren didn't start accusing her or Jaune of not being ready out of nowhere; he just wanted to stay focused on getting out of the cold. But then she started giving him crap about not being positive - despite the fact that they just lost Oscar! - then escalated the situation when he finally did open up and admitted how scared and out of his league he felt. As an introvert, I relate a lot to Ren, and absolutely hate when people like Yang do that: if you didn't care about what we're thinking about, why did you force us to open up in the first place?
If they really wanted ren to say devastating facts what he should've done is this........ Yang:...... don't you care what happens to the people in mantle?! Ren: like how you cared about ruby when she left with us to go to haven? How long DID you take before you got off your ass and did something?! Did you care that your LITTLE sister went on a dangerous journey in uncharted territory full of Grimm, or were you more worried about Blake?! Jaune: come on man! This isnt helping anyone....... Ren: YOU COULDNT EVEN HELP PYYRHA WHEN SHE NEEDED IT! *stun silence* you cheated your way into beacon because you weren't strong enough, you weren't strong enough to support pyyrha, what makes you think you're strong enough to help now?
In the words of Mr. Popo "He's gonna die" Sudden character development, sudden focus on him after who knows how long. Dude just needs to wear a couple red flags and it'll be set. That or Nora just to make Ren a villain or something. WHEN they kill off Ren- Jaune will have a harem just like all the Jaune shippers wanted. *for clarity sake that last part is a joke oh god I hope it doesn't come to that.
Blake and yang are tied for my least favourite characters in the show, I don’t like how the writers love to shove their gayness in our faces without any build up to their relationship romantically at all. Volume 4 they were basically setting up Blake and suns relationship and then they wrote him off like nothing so they could push bumblebee forward which would’ve been fine had they executed it correctly which they didn’t. I just want sun back man, he don’t need to be with blake I just miss my homie
Trust me, you don't. They will find some way to ruin him as a character, I just know it. Hell, they might decide to make him clingy and/or abusive, just to drive another nail into the "Ships that oppose the mighty Bumblebee" coffin🤦♀️
Ren will: a) Be painted as a bad guy for not agreeing with Yang, and most likely die to something stupid because, plot. b) He will see the error of his ways and beg for forgiveness. Then crawl back to being a boring character again.
@@anonymousapproximation8549 yeah, yeah, it feels a bit cheap for me, but even so, with the limited info we had from volumes 1-3, he still managed to write one of my favorite fics 'Not This Time, Fate' and only managed to improve, like Professor Arc II: Headmaster Arc (where he put the Ace Ops organically like a true chad) and is a genius and a master at his craft, writing circles around M&K. And he does it with, like, all of the 7 fanfics he writes simultaneously.
They only had Ren say "You cheated" to Jaune to make Ren the obvious "bad guy" in that argument (even though Yang provoked him into lashing out in the first place) when that scene could've gone a completely different way if the emphasis wasn't on Jaune cheating but on how Jaune is frequently _rewarded_ for his incompetence while his teammates had to work harder to compensate for it. If Pyrrha actually felt that Jaune genuinely earned his place in Beacon, she wouldn't have shoved him in a rocket locker and fought Cinder alone
Yang was SO ANNOYING in this chapter. "What is your deal?!" "Seriously? Is your goal to push everyone away?" like, OH my GOD. Ren is the ONLY one with common sense in this group. He literally saved her and Jaune from falling cause they just happened to forget what landing strategies were. Now, the writers are gonna kill him off for having a single working braincell. If he just let them fall, I would've been happy cause then, I wouldn't hate Yang as much as I do now.
Anyone remember Flynt Coals team? How they basically cameoed last season and never appeared again even though all this stuff is happening in their home. Im not saying we need more characters to be done badly but its really weird to me.
There were way too many characters last season, so that's probably why. The problem is that RWBY needs a bigger budget, more episodes, longer episodes, and a full year production cycle.
For now, he's at least being the most logical (but that's not saying much). Though he still hasn't chewed anyone out for betraying the man who actually knew what to do and had the resources to do it.
I think it's more a double-edged sword, honestly - there’s a pro *and* con to it. For the con, the way Ren says it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win as opposed to just surviving. *That,* more than anything, seems to be what Yang and Jaune took issue with. On the flip-side though, one can also argue that Yang and Jaune are so focused on the “we still have to try/we can't just give up” aspect that they’re trying to avoid acknowledging the hubris they committed in blindly treating Ruby like she’d know what she was doing - the moment Ruby chose to hide the truth from Ironwood, they basically became hypocrites because they just sat there and enabled her to do exactly what they turned on Ozpin for… for no other reason then “we know her” and “she keeps us in the loop” (even though she seemingly didn’t consult them about hiding the truth and made that decision on her own, given Yang’s concern in V7 - only thing different from Oz is that she let everyone know what she’d done). Wrongheaded as one can possibly call Ren for all but openly suggesting they abandon Mantle as a lost cause… Ren does make a valid point that they’ve never really known what they were doing and that it’s not really turned out well for them outside of Haven, given most or all of Ruby's plans to this point have gone wrong constantly and only end in their favor by dumb luck. When I look at Ruby, a quote from Jonathan Stroud’s “The Bartimaeus Trilogy: The Amulet of Sammarkand” comes to mind, when the story’s namesake demon-protagonist chastises the human-protagonist/his summoner for getting his teacher and said teacher’s wife killed in his game of payback towards another mage; ~ _“It isn't justice or honor that drives you now, boy, but _*_guilt._*_ You can't take the consequences of your actions. You seek to drown out what you've done”_ ~ To me at least, this encapsulates the impetus for Ruby’s actions in the V7 finale and V8 - in V6, she was getting pretty big-for-her-britches in talking about how they’ve come far without Ozpin, and it immediately came back to bite her when their plan caused a fight with the Atlas military that scared the townspeople of Argus and drew a Grimm Leviathan to them. This is that but tenfold - Ruby lied to to Ironwood, seemingly losing faith in authority figures after all the veteran huntsman became broken pedestals to her (Qrow for being a drunk, Oz for being a liar, Lionheart for being a traitor - hell, maybe even her own mother for dying on her) and now, in desperation to fix it, she’s trying to save both Mantle and Atlas even if it jeopardizes the chances of _anyone_ getting out alive by keeping the Winter Maiden away from the Staff of Creation along with splitting Atlas' efforts between her rebellion and Salem's invasion. IMHO, Ren was wrong to act like they shouldn’t try to save people or should just let it go… but at the same time, he’s not wrong to point out they haven’t really had a good track record of things working right under Ruby’s leadership. And I think it's kinda telling that, for all her agitation at Ren seemingly giving up on Mantle, she doesn't actually deny his point about Ruby being a kid in over her head - as if maybe some of her anger is because she knows he's right and that it's partly their fault for just letting Ruby take that responsibility anyway. Or in short; IMHO, Ren was all but openly saying they should just give up and focus on saving who they can, and I think he was wrong to do that or to use his friends’ personal failures as the fuel for it… but just because he was wrong to do that, it doesn’t mean I think he was wrong to question the inherent hubris in the group treating Ruby like she’d have all the answers or make all the right calls any better than Oz. IMHO, it all comes down to whether you think Ren’s pointing out the flaws in the blind faith they gave Ruby was worth him darn-near forsaking Mantle’s people and weaponizing his friends’ mistakes to make that point - that’s a call each viewer’s gotta make for themselves, I think ^_^;
This man is always spitting facts. I had completely forgotten about the other Huntsman because they rarely appear, and when they do, they either need "help" or just incompetent in combat. That scene of HxH really made me think. How the hell is the power scaling so weird?
Its ridiculous. They built a world based around children going to a school to train to be huntsmen. The "World of RWBY" keeps referencing huntsmen, but outside of basically useless side-characters, we have no veterans. The way this is written, you would think that only Beacon was a hunter academy and were responsible for the world's hunter supply, rather than there being 3 other schools
@@BluemoonLacrymosa Right! Where are the veterans? Why are the only ones who seem to do anything are these indecisive kids? I get it that Salem killed a lot of experienced huntsman who Qrow trusted, but I have yet to see a huntsman or huntress and say to myself, "wow they are super strong."(other than like Glynda or Maria in her prime) Like in HxH, when the veterans appeared they were genuinely handling the chimera ants with the help of the kids. All of the side characters here either are just full blown useless at combat, or can't make a good decision with the greater threat at hand. Haven was empty and Atlas ops got outclassed by kids who barely trained.
At some point Jaune, Nora, but most possibly Ren has to ask "Why did Ironwood have us out for arrest?" Because from their point of view it's an incomplete picture
I like that scene, but they make it look like Ren is in the wrong for calling this out. I bet later on he will admit he was wrong or will later try to join ironwood. Most likely the former.
Ren is going to be the one to die, he is the Neji Hyuga of RWBY. He is sending major death flags as he overcame the monster that destroyed his village, is levelheaded and Nora confused her love. RIP Ren
I agree with most of this. Ren has valid points, but your counter is just as strong; if they don't step up, who is going to? Because most of the adult Huntsmen in the series haven't been shown to be hyper-competent themselves. There aren't 50 Qrow-tier skilled Huntsmen lining up to take their places or anything. Maybe they'll actually play into this. The whole "We AREN'T ready, but we're never going to be, nobody else is either, and we have to move anyways". That would have been a stronger counter to Ren than what Yang said. I guess we'll see. Another thing I'd bring up is that this... really isn't a "typical Huntsman situation". Fighting Grimm is one thing, but fighting hyper-competent extremely powerful Grimm while the anti-christ of the setting lurks a few blocks away? That's a little more extreme.
All the more reason to have Ironwood help them... Well, it would've makes much more sense since he's basically more experienced at ordering people around since he's military. That is, if they didn't just screw that part up. Also, now that I think of it, almost every soldier in the Atlas military should be huntsmen right? Since Atlas Academy do train them to be Specialists or something like that... but the only specialists we have are the AceOps and Winter. What do you think happened to the rest of the Specialists? I'm sure Ironwood didn't kill em since he wouldn't pull a Lionheart so yeah...
How to become the best character in one scene. Please don't turn this into a situation where Ren is made out to be wrong, Roosterteeth. What am I saying, of course they will. They manage to ruin anything good they create. Only a matter of time before they find a way to ruin this scene.
Nah, this isn't self-awareness. This is them trying to paint Ren as being in a dark place and saying 'untrue', hurtful things because he's beating himself up for thinking the 'wrong' things and making the 'wrong' choices. The whole reason this is happening is because the writers want to show how incorrect Ren is. This whole scene is going to be building up to him later saying how wrong he was, then falling in line with the rest of the main cast's blind idealistic optimism.
I disagree; I think it's more a double-edged sword, honestly - there’s a pro *and* con to it. For the con, the way Ren says it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win as opposed to just surviving. *That,* more than anything, seems to be what Yang and Jaune took issue with. On the flip-side though, one can also argue that Yang and Jaune are so focused on the “we still have to try/we can't just give up” aspect that they’re trying to avoid acknowledging the hubris they committed in blindly treating Ruby like she’d know what she was doing - the moment Ruby chose to hide the truth from Ironwood, they basically became hypocrites because they just sat there and enabled her to do exactly what they turned on Ozpin for… for no other reason then “we know her” and “she keeps us in the loop” (even though she seemingly didn’t consult them about hiding the truth and made that decision on her own, given Yang’s concern in V7 - only thing different from Oz is that she let everyone know what she’d done). Wrongheaded as one can possibly call Ren for all but openly suggesting they abandon Mantle as a lost cause… Ren does make a valid point that they’ve never really known what they were doing and that it’s not really turned out well for them outside of Haven, given most or all of Ruby's plans to this point have gone wrong constantly and only end in their favor by dumb luck. When I look at Ruby, a quote from Jonathan Stroud’s “The Bartimaeus Trilogy: The Amulet of Sammarkand” comes to mind, when the story’s namesake demon-protagonist chastises the human-protagonist/his summoner for getting his teacher and said teacher’s wife killed in his game of payback towards another mage; ~ _“It isn't justice or honor that drives you now, boy, but _*_guilt._*_ You can't take the consequences of your actions. You seek to drown out what you've done”_ ~ To me at least, this encapsulates the impetus for Ruby’s actions in the V7 finale and V8 - in V6, she was getting pretty big-for-her-britches in talking about how they’ve come far without Ozpin, and it immediately came back to bite her when their plan caused a fight with the Atlas military that scared the townspeople of Argus and drew a Grimm Leviathan to them. This is that but tenfold - Ruby lied to to Ironwood, seemingly losing faith in authority figures after all the veteran huntsman became broken pedestals to her (Qrow for being a drunk, Oz for being a liar, Lionheart for being a traitor - hell, maybe even her own mother for dying on her) and now, in desperation to fix it, she’s trying to save both Mantle and Atlas even if it jeopardizes the chances of _anyone_ getting out alive by keeping the Winter Maiden away from the Staff of Creation along with splitting Atlas' efforts between her rebellion and Salem's invasion. IMHO, Ren was wrong to act like they shouldn’t try to save people or should just let it go… but at the same time, he’s not wrong to point out they haven’t really had a good track record of things working right under Ruby’s leadership. And I think it's kinda telling that, for all her agitation at Ren seemingly giving up on Mantle, she doesn't actually deny his point about Ruby being a kid in over her head - as if maybe some of her anger is because she knows he's right and that it's partly their fault for just letting Ruby take that responsibility anyway. Or in short; IMHO, Ren was all but openly saying they should just give up and focus on saving who they can, and I think he was wrong to do that or to use his friends’ personal failures as the fuel for it… but just because he was wrong to do that, it doesn’t mean I think he was wrong to question the inherent hubris in the group treating Ruby like she’d have all the answers or make all the right calls any better than Oz. IMHO, it all comes down to whether you think Ren’s pointing out the flaws in the blind faith they gave Ruby was worth him darn-near forsaking Mantle’s people and weaponizing his friends’ mistakes to make that point - that’s a call each viewer’s gotta make for themselves, I think ^_^;
I didn’t even think about a possible “ranking” system, there should be a group of remnant’s “best” like the 12 zodiacs equip to handle stuff like this. And YEAH team RWBY would be in their sophomore year of Beacon and the lost to elite and established huntsman, that’s dumb.
I'm worried because Ren is making sense, enough sense that the writers will make him do something deliberately stupid, fooling the audience that Ren was in the wrong, just like they did with Ironwood.
IDK; I think it's more a double-edged sword, honestly - there’s a pro *and* con to it. For the con, the way Ren says it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win as opposed to just surviving. *That,* more than anything, seems to be what Yang and Jaune took issue with. On the flip-side though, one can also argue that Yang and Jaune are so focused on the “we still have to try/we can't just give up” aspect that they’re trying to avoid acknowledging the hubris they committed in blindly treating Ruby like she’d know what she was doing - the moment Ruby chose to hide the truth from Ironwood, they basically became hypocrites because they just sat there and enabled her to do exactly what they turned on Ozpin for… for no other reason then “we know her” and “she keeps us in the loop” (even though she seemingly didn’t consult them about hiding the truth and made that decision on her own, given Yang’s concern in V7 - only thing different from Oz is that she let everyone know what she’d done). Wrongheaded as one can possibly call Ren for all but openly suggesting they abandon Mantle as a lost cause… Ren does make a valid point that they’ve never really known what they were doing and that it’s not really turned out well for them outside of Haven, given most or all of Ruby's plans to this point have gone wrong constantly and only end in their favor by dumb luck. When I look at Ruby, a quote from Jonathan Stroud’s “The Bartimaeus Trilogy: The Amulet of Sammarkand” comes to mind, when the story’s namesake demon-protagonist chastises the human-protagonist/his summoner for getting his teacher and said teacher’s wife killed in his game of payback towards another mage; ~ _“It isn't justice or honor that drives you now, boy, but _*_guilt._*_ You can't take the consequences of your actions. You seek to drown out what you've done”_ ~ To me at least, this encapsulates the impetus for Ruby’s actions in the V7 finale and V8 - in V6, she was getting pretty big-for-her-britches in talking about how they’ve come far without Ozpin, and it immediately came back to bite her when their plan caused a fight with the Atlas military that scared the townspeople of Argus and drew a Grimm Leviathan to them. This is that but tenfold - Ruby lied to to Ironwood, seemingly losing faith in authority figures after all the veteran huntsman became broken pedestals to her (Qrow for being a drunk, Oz for being a liar, Lionheart for being a traitor - hell, maybe even her own mother for dying on her) and now, in desperation to fix it, she’s trying to save both Mantle and Atlas even if it jeopardizes the chances of _anyone_ getting out alive by keeping the Winter Maiden away from the Staff of Creation along with splitting Atlas' efforts between her rebellion and Salem's invasion. IMHO, Ren was wrong to act like they shouldn’t try to save people or should just let it go… but at the same time, he’s not wrong to point out they haven’t really had a good track record of things working right under Ruby’s leadership. And I think it's kinda telling that, for all her agitation at Ren seemingly giving up on Mantle, she doesn't actually deny his point about Ruby being a kid in over her head - as if maybe some of her anger is because she knows he's right and that it's partly their fault for just letting Ruby take that responsibility anyway. Or in short; IMHO, Ren was all but openly saying they should just give up and focus on saving who they can, and I think he was wrong to do that or to use his friends’ personal failures as the fuel for it… but just because he was wrong to do that, it doesn’t mean I think he was wrong to question the inherent hubris in the group treating Ruby like she’d have all the answers or make all the right calls any better than Oz. IMHO, it all comes down to whether you think Ren’s pointing out the flaws in the blind faith they gave Ruby was worth him darn-near forsaking Mantle’s people and weaponizing his friends’ mistakes to make that point - that’s a call each viewer’s gotta make for themselves, I think ^_^;
There was a scene in the ace ops training montage that kinda calls back to this particular scene. Ren was fighting the tree-stance girl and he gets laid the fuck out. But he gets back up, looks and sounds visibly frustrated and says ‘again’. As if he knew how much he needed to work to be called a proper huntsman. He wasn’t happy to just get a license. He wanted to get better for himself.
Ren it the only person in the show finally said the truth about Ruby be a horrible leader and wtf they do this crow like they make him believe it ironwood fault like come on dude man up
Oh, trust me, Qrow being an idiot is by far not the worst thing that could happen to him. I'm almost 100% sure he's about to get shipped with Robyn (a.k.a. the biggest middle finger they can write to every existing Qrow ship)👍
I always love Fanfiction that makes real Huntsman just total monsters. Saw one that had Oobleck have super speed beyond Ruby's, Ozpin was a fucking Demigod, Glynda was Glynda, but it was Port that was the best. Port's Semblance wasn't something like Super Strength or Ultra Instinst, but returning to the Prime of his Youth. Dude was one-shotting _Goliaths._ Shit was so fucking good.
You made me realize that the heroes are scaled like Marvel heroes and the villains are scaled like D.C. Heroes and or villains and only lose cause of plot armor.
@@matthewreyes5951 Marvel characters and DC characters scale differently from each other. (off the top of your head) If you take a random superhero from Marvel and a Random superhero from DC it's quite evident that a DC character would win most of the time. When I say 'The villains of RWBY would only lose because of plot armor'.... It's kinda self-explanatory if you look at the previous volumes.
I mean RWBY now has a maiden on their side and Silver Eyes which counters Cinder . It just really goes down to Salem and her strong Grimm. If you asked this question in V5 where the antagonists had an ambush + two maidens... Marvel characters do vary a bit. Thor and Silver Surfer at their peak can compete well with the upper justice league.
You know this my theory, I think because we have 4 writers we now have a case of "too many cooks in the kitchen." One of the writers want to make a black and white story and make Ironwood a villain while the other want to make an actual morally grey story arc with Ironwood being a flawed hero alongside the other heroes like Ren. I think this is why everything's feeling inconsistent.
The thing is, they could probably invest some of their time to train and study in order to gain knowledge. Maybe even try getting in contact with veterans who could help them keep on helping people and since they don't want to give up, why not train? Yang being a fighter should have recognized this by a long shot and told everyone to grow a little more.
None of their major victories have been their own doing for a while. Haven was a win only because Raven was going to betray Cinder and Adam's actions motivated the folks in Menagerie to do something. Cordovan actually killed the Leviathan despite having a damaged mech. Even the Breach wasn't a total fiasco because JNPR, CVFY, and Atlas intervened. They haven't successfully countered Salem's plans without some intervention of one kind or another. There are times where it feels like RWBY doesn't appreciate how dangerous their does could be and that their wins have been dumb luck rather than due to their own skill or planning. Salem wouldn't even be at Atlas if she hadn't learned that Ozpin was back earlier than expected. Is it strange that Ruby's plan right now is to get Amity running and even if help doesn't come, tell everyone about Salem? The thing Ironwood was worried causing a worldwide panic when the only issue was telling everyone about her? What will happen if she reveals this, by some chance is believes, and then says Atlas and Mantle are and anger of being wiped out? Won't that cause panic on an even greater scale? It doesn't help that none of the kingdoms are in any shape to help Atlas anyhow. Mistral suffered from Leo getting huntsmen killed off to where none could be found to help the heroes. Vale is trying to retake Beacon and needs its huntsmen just for that and protecting its own settlements. Nevermind that we have no instance of a town or city successfully being retaken after it fell to the Grimm so they're trying something that seemingly hasn't been done. If we go by the books, Vacuo isn't in shape to send help and some of its citizens might actually cheer the fall of Atlas. Atlas also seems to be the only military around, so any help wouldn't arrive until a kingdom was able to gather enough huntsmen to make a difference, which takes time. So help won't come in time. That assumes Salem even lets Amity launch when Tyrian has to have told her about it. So right now, Ruby's plan is to send a message that will cause untold panic, hope that the kingdoms aren't so overwhelmed with Grimm attacks they can send enough help to turn the tide rather than try and fortify their own defenses, and if no help comes, make a last stand and hope that Salem doesn't figure a way to either hack Penny, lure her out into the open, or bring Amity down when she learns there's a Maiden there. TLDR, Ruby knows help won't come, so she's going to spread worldwide panic and make sure that Atlas and Mantle have no options except a glorious last stand they can't win. How is this better than Ironwood's plan again?
It honestly really sucks that we haven't seen any pro Huntsmen in action. The most we've gotten recently is the AceOps and that's not saying much with how the show handled them. It makes the world feel less lived in.
idk what's going on with the RT self awareness but I love it. These really are a bunch of children who plot armored their way through their journey, which would be all fine and dandy if they weren't so self righteous.
i remember saying once; "can you imagine if team JNPR would have gone with ironwoods plan because when ruby told them ironwood was gonna abandon mantle, she didn't mention Salem, the un-killable powerful grim controlling witch, was on her way" huh uh, it seems ren would have
@@benjaminmcneil574 Not really, the writes just love to ignore logic. Besides Ruby little Grimm powers. They leave in a word with profession huntsmen and huntress. Some with some really OP powers too (detecting lies, Messing with time,etc). However, the shows loves to ignore this until they need them to further their story, then we get a weak excuse for where the characters have been. Also, even if they had go to the veil early ( a experienced and older fighter should be in charge not Ruby (sadly they ruined Qrow ,Ozpin, and mostly every other adult).
Damn bro, why'd you have to go and use the Hunter Association by comparison? Do we really need to bury RWBY further by comparing its Huntsman and their capabilities to one of the best examples of a ranked system of Hunters and their capabilities in all of anime??
Go big or go home. But seriously, RWBY has zero ranking system as well as basically zero examples of veteran hunters. I doubt there is any anime with a worse system
Ren it just spitting facts, because is the only logical being in RWBY team; i mean the Ren disagreement with the team was the best thing in that volume, cause he was fu**** right.
“Seriously is it your job to push everyone away” like how you have been doing to everyone including your sister (but excluding Blake cause BuMbleBeE) yang you have no right to speak when your character has been the cancer of the series for the past several volumes, and the fact that you are like half the reason that Ironwood snapped and everything went crazy in volume 7. The hypocrisy, I think the only thing I’ve enjoyed from yang was her challenging her sister.
I strongly agree with your points about there being no other Huntsmen in the show. We've probably seen like 100 students in the first 3 volumes, so I'm willing to be there are at least a few Huntsmen in all of Remnant. So where are they? It makes no sense that Team RWBY and friends seem to be the only characters in the entire show who care about the Grimm attacking and fighting Salem. But for some reason they are and that screams of terrible world building. At least when the characters were still in school, we could assume lots of Huntsmen were doing cool stuff off screen but now the kids are in the real world and no one else is doing anything. It's extremely frustrating and makes the entire premise of a bunch of kids saving the world by themselves seem illogical.
The "and you cheated your way into Beacon" line is a dead giveaway that the writers won't actually go anywhere with this. Ren, just like Ironwood, will be "wrong", and this whole argument was nothing more than an attempt at creating some kind of conflict between the main cast.
Hmm Nora questions who she is as an individual without Ren since they've always been together Ren gets a bunch of focus and good character moments and is a logical character in a show were it's scarce The death flags are pilling up
"Hey, so we noticed that this character's getting logical and interesting. Should we expand on this?" "No no, we don't like this and can't continue this, so let's nerf him and make him look bad."
I kinda like the fact that Ren, the character that used to be voiced by Monty, is the only person with logical sense here. It's like Monty slapping RT on what the fuck they are doing to RWBY
His name is Lie Ren yet he speaks nothing but facts.
you should have said truth but still
More like the characters want to believe what Ren says are lies and dont want to accept the truth.
@@frostytaco8598 ugh thats horrible, and writers and devs expect us to love the PrOTagOnISt?
@@Samuel_Loegan I like what this TH-camr said about letting students make a plan to save the world type of thing. There is supposed to be way better hunters and huntresses out there in the world and yet no one is present there. The only hunter that is the best in the whole world is Ozma and yet Oscar doesn't want to let him get control of his body. Yes Ozma has no plan but he did made better plans before its just he didnt think of one for the moment. Yes there is no plan to kill or stop Salem but im sure he has plenty of plans to save mantle.
@@frostytaco8598 hmm true :)
Well the whole Jaune cheated his way into Beacon jab was more on the grounds to show what exactly makes them so special that it's up to them to save the world. Like he said Ruby's a child, he's just some random orphan kid and Jaune was just some dude that got into the school by cheating and lying. He basically saying "Why are a bunch of random ass teenagers doing this shit?"
They literally just got dragged into this shit and now they can't get out.
Well, they COULD get out, but then we'd have no show.
That's kinda what happens when the scale gets too high and your focus characters haven't yet adjusted to it.
@@benjaminmcneil574 I see nothing but facts
Ngl, the writers kinda weakened the scene. Yang was being a bitch, and the jaune burn wasn't really as good as it could've been. Plus, how did he learn about him cheating into beacon? I thought only Cardin and pyyrha knew about that. But this scene has to be one of the best in the volume right now, finally ren calls out their bullshit. It's like the writers broke the 4th wall xD.
He never mentions it until now though it's kinda dumb
Being a Hunter means literally nothing.
Ruby and Jaune have zero qualifications, didn't even complete the first half of their crappy training and still got a license.
how is Yang gonna shame Ren for pushing people away when Blake was doing the same thing and Yang was doing it when she lost her arm?? shouldnt that make Yang understand Ren more???
Yang a smip for Blake
Yang lost brain cells with her right arm
@@waterpillar1977 Taiyang was secretly right all along
@@waterpillar1977 Yeah, when I compare her character from Vol 1-3: The warm, compassionate, empathetic, somewhat motherly and occasionally temperamental girl she was, to this dour and hypocritical bitch who just seems pissed off most of the time, I can't believe they were the same person.
@@Chrno34 I am glad I am not the only one who see this yang personality isn’t the same she criticize others but turns around and dose the same thing
I love how the episode is played out like ren is wrong for saying what we all are saying
It doesn't really play out that way though. If it were, Jaune would tell specifically Ren to stop, but instead he says "both of you, cut it out" and similar things. Ren is NOT wrong here, the only thing the episode tries to play out negatively about him is his attitude of bottling up all of these thoughts and not having faith in his allies.
@@Double___ I'm not so sure about that, this could be another case of writers making a character act like a dick to fight the criticism. I have seen similar things in other shows like Teen Titans Go, and Thunder Cats Roar. We will have to wait and see what happens next, but I don't think the characters are going to reflect in their past actions after what Ren said, and it could probably end up with Ren apologising for the way he acted.
@@Double___ true hes been bottling all these feelings and the only one that hasnt broken through all volumes and he knows that they are way in over their heads and trying to stop salem and her whole army
Hes wrong because he going about it in the wrong way
@@Double___ That may be how you see it, but there are many people in the FNDM that sees Ren as someone slipping into a villain role specifically because of this one moment. I'm sure the writers are going to follow that.
Wow, Ren is being so logical and making sense....
The writers are going to kill him, aren't they?
logical characters? IN MY RWBY?? naw, they need to die
That or he’s gonna be evil. I mean, his semblance is hiding emotion. Of you’re not constantly projecting your emotions about how awesome friendship is, you’re a goner or evil
NOT MY BOI REN
IMHO, its not that his point was the problem for them - it's how he did it that Yang and Jaune object to. Neither one really refuted his claim that it was a mistake to act like Ruby would be an infallible leader - it's the way Ren says it, because it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win or even in caring as opposed to just surviving.
No, none of Team JNR is probably gonna get killed.
It's funny that ren power is to mask emotion and a composed person but he had enough of this shit. Ren best character right now shame they going to kill him off because they going to let nora find a life without ren
king Lightning damn, calling it early, huh?
Semblance couldn't hide it anymore!
XD
@@vertousofficial3735 i mean if you line the pieces together it's obvious like rooster teeth knows they going to have to kill someone off this volume and it's obviously ren or nora because rooster teeth don't have the balls to kill someone off like team rwby or a characters like Jaune and qrow. The way they lined it up last episode with nora saying she doesn't know a life without ren and ren speaking hard facts rightnow ren a dead man walking and it's funny the characters that knows they fucked or the characters that are interesting going to get screwed this volume. Like ironwood watts going to stab him in the back or qrow and Robin kills him while winter and the ace ops leaves him. Penny who's questioning what she should do going to get hacked and know ren who's sick of this shit is going to get killed off for nora development.
I'd rather have anybody from rwby team die than ren or nora or give qrow a badass final stand than that would also be good
@@matt-x7u7u They don't deserve to die.
What if Ren becomes the "Ironwood"(unintentionally the best character despite the fact that the writers want you to think otherwise) of volume 8?
Like Sun and Torchwick
in every volume they appeared in
Like every red head and good character they killed of or are currently thinking of ways to ruin.
Be careful not to tell certain "fans" that you like/prefer the side/support characters over the main cast...
They'll bombard you to death with several paragraphs of pure cognitive reprogramming then sacrifice your remains to their chosen ship cult.
@@andrestewart2316 LOL it's funny but it's accurate.
@@andrestewart2316 Oh boy! Trust me! As an ex-RWBY veteran, I know.
Ren: "You got Pyyrha killed!"
Yang: "Ren! How could you say that?!"
Ren: "Because he threw a tantrum instead of calling for help, and you betrayed *us*, and *your own* team! Thousands of people are going to die because you thought it wise to go behind all our backs and make things worst. Why?! You belittled Ruby for her leadership while you sabotaged it in the first place. WHY?!"
Yang: "And you would have done better?!"
Ren: "No I wouldn't have! That's my point! I let the relic fall into the hands of Salem because I wasn't prepared to attack someone wearing Nora's face, even though I *knew* it wasn't her, I still couldn't do it. I wasn't ready for this! None of us are! And the only person we had left who could have helped us, guided us, we fucked over and you are somehow proud of it all!? Every death going forward is blood on our hands, has been on on our hands since Tyrian's massacre at Robyns assembly which you despite advocating nonstop for her, you didn't even bother defending when we *knew* her supporters were being attacked. *Why weren't you there?!* "
Yang: "H-hey I have a life outside being a Huntress and Ironwood gave us downtime! Why shouldn't I take it?!"
Ren: There is no downtime being a huntsmen! The grimm don't stop, not until we are all dead! The only reprieve we have is waiting for the next attack from them. They don't care if we want to go dancing with friends or loved ones, they don't care if we want to have families and grow old together, they don't care if we are a rookie or a prodigy like Pyrrha! The only thing that drives them is killing us every second of every day and if we aren't mounting a defense with the same single minded tenacity we are half assing being protectors and *look* where that has gotten us so far!"
Yang cocks her gauntlets assuming an offensive stance.
Yang: Enough!
Jaune:..Guys!"
Yang: No Jaune, I've had enough of Ren's shit, *we* made the right choices!"
Jaune: "GUYS! GRIMM! Jaune gestures to the massive horde slowing surrounding the arguing group.
Ren: "...Best thing we have done since got here really, luring a bulk of the horde from their attack. ." Ren closes his eyes momentarily. "Lets see that there's few that make it back to the city. We owe every life still there that much."
Wow better writing than the actual show not hard to out do them but props either way
These are the kinds of character moments we need
Damn that's good
This could possibly be the best ren fanfiction moment in the show, remember Ren can cloak them, meaning they could start killing the horde after attracting it with minimal danger to their lives.
@@sebas8225 Yeah it could have been a strong character moment for him and the time, instead the grimm ignored them and they ignored the river of grimm.
Woops, a character was self aware and reasonable? He’s gonna like, murder a child or something just so the writers can show that only awful evil people question the might of team RWBY
...Ok, i kinda hate it when people sell something off as something it's not like this. If iron wood would just listen to RWBY and visa versa, talk about which stratagy is better and just work together (which is literally the thing that weakens grim or something) then they wouldn't be against eachother in the first place. (I don't pay way to much attention to the detail or the show itself, correct me if i'm wrong)
Considering they have him siding with Ironwood, they'll probably have him execute the rest of the council or something
@Al3xh413 The deal with Oz is they can now kinda trust him, after they learned "what he was not telling them" from Jin, giving them reason to trust him. Sure Alot of RWBY's actions may appear that way, but they only appear that way from the laws that made them illegal and other factors at play. Laws should only apply if it serves the purpose they were men't to serve: if you kill someone in self defence, it's for the greater good and if you steal a ship that's assosiated with one of your members family, give information to a group that's just doing what they think is right to get them on your side and change there course of action for your benefit, and whatever else they did for the greater good, it should be forgiven yet explained first, of which ironwood wouldn't let them getting hostile and making them fugitives. Iron wood is part to blame for that.
@Al3xh413 Damn, you hit it out of the park three times here. I pretty much agree with everything you said in this comment thread, especially about Team RWBY lying to Ironwood, which I have to wonder if the fact that they're outright hypocrites and gave Oz so much flack for his secrets will ever come up and they'll be called out on it. You know, a moment of realization that they've literal done what they condemned Ozpin for or another character spelling it out and them going "Oh shit! You're right!" What am I saying? That's not going to happen.
@Al3xh413 Yup. The writers want there to be moral greys and complexities in the story, yet have the characters remain in a black and white mindset and always right (despite obviously being wrong in several cases), resulting in narrative being pulled in 2 directions and the story filling with blatant contradictions and conflicting elements. Nothing makes sense anymore (not that it has for a while now). Rwby wants to have its cake and eat it too regardless of how little sense it makes story wise. Just awful writing all around.
As satisfying as it was to hear Ren say it, I 100% expect him to be "proven" wrong in a way that invalidates him or his point. A character might be on the chopping block because he pointed out that the protagonists messed up.
Also, Yang's responce to a friend who's clearly stressed and upset about a bad situation was to lose her shit and belittle his feelings every step of the way. She is an extremely toxic person to have in a friend group.
Right?? In the middle of a tundra where bad moods could attract eldritch horrors and you lack the very thing that keeps you all safe, you choose then to force the issue your typically withdrawn friend has been having for what's implied to be months. Ren's whole arc here seems to be about wanting proper direction and the time to grow into being a proper professional, we see it with how quickly he picks up being an operative under Ironwood
@@relic5752 It even looks like Yang already asked Ren how far the outpost was repeatedly, and got upset by his annoyed response, like a child.
To be fair with Yang, I think they're all stressed and also punching themselves for losing Oscar, and it's making them even more cranky. It's already been a series of unfortunate events for them since the fall of Beacon with no hope of them finding any good solution.
@@relic5752 "Ren is literally the ONLY defense we have against getting fucked with by Grimm out here due to his semblance. Which requires him to be calm as hell.....I'm gonna piss him off. Cuz I'm a Genius."
How did Yang belittle his feelings? She's just as stressed as he is, she's just choosing to not give up over it.
Crwby:"He's become self aware...DUMB HIM DOWN NOW!"
ngl. that jab at jeane felt like idiot ball. if he wanted to hurt him he could have smacked him with phyrra's death
@@remuluson2904 True he could've said "and it's your fault phyrra's dead that would have rlly hit home
Wait a character has become self aware......(2 episodes later) oh no Ren has suddenly died now
@@remuluson2904 That would’ve worked better if they kept the version where Juane had caused Phyrra’s death. I agree, still should’ve said it tho.
Crwby: he's become self aware...... let's kill him off
Ren is the only logical character left in the show. So much like how the writers butchered Ironwood he will soon be dealt with probably by lethal measures.
Ironwood wasnt logical though lol...Atlas in the sky= safe from salem, k. and Ren supporting him also makes him a bit flawed.
You need someone who can see both perspectives, and in that, that person takes charge because what you need is Unity. Division makes you weaker, there's no clear leader, Ironwood is currently making the same mistake he did at Beacon, Ruby is naïve and young. Ren had a good point, things havent gone smoothly... Wowzers you dont say...They're way over their heads...no shit sherlock their kids and I could bet you 10million dollars they'd rather be in class at Beacon, but every turn they make they feel they have to correct mistakes those in power have made.
@@user-qe1ys4vj2d At this point think the team is being set up for a BIG loss much like beacon. Maybe it will force Ruby to further mature...I know her character is based around her being hopeful and plucky but when you raise the stakes and the seriousness of the situation past a certain point that starts turning into a liability unless you can back it up. Ren is scared someone is going to get killed because someone WILL get killed at this rate.
@@benjaminbierley2074 Well penny did say it'll be just like beacon again and umm look what's happening.
@@benjaminbierley2074 Someone will get killed at this rate? Yes, that would be the logical way to go, but considering these are the RWBY writers I would be doubt the chances of that happening. At best 1 of them will die. Thats it. Which should not be the case considering Salems army.
Ren is definitely doing the series some justice. In cast where basically everybody is in constant agreement with one another (despite how ridiculous some of their plans get), having at least ONE character actually take note of wth is going on, and giving a very understandable response is such a breath of fresh air.
I am so glad someone is becoming upset with all the nonsense they're doing. It's about time someone of them is able to step back and lay down the hard truths of the situation. I cannot fault the characters for their hopefull-ness or desire to keep going despite their mistakes. But often times it comes across as if they don't believe they've made any mistakes at all.
Ren being frustrated is so justifiable.
THIS, definitely love how they’re adding more differing opinions rather just good side vs bad side (unfortunately they’re not really doing that for ironwood)
I do wish that scene where they showed Ren saying yes sir to ironwood was actually fleshed out, I mean this volume has done a good job of showing ren’s irritation but that scene felt very out of place back then and in the context of volume 7
It's why Ren's going to die though.
on top of everything that was happening, its funny that the only reason ren spoke now was because yang didnt know how to take a "not now" as an answer.
@@Madikay27 Thanks!
I agree. I personally would have liked for a bit more discord among them, but I think V7 did well enough by having at least half of them genuinely question Ruby's actions (it's kind if ruined by them never bringing it up again, ever. But I mean, at least there's something. And I prefer not to be a Negative Nancy xD)
I too would have liked to see a bit more of Ren from his apparent overt willingness to follow Ironwood. But...at least we're getting some things now? Hopefully it'll spill over into the following episodes.
@@Not_Ciel The death flags are high, but I do hope he survives.
I used to love Yang for her fun, energetic, slightly suffocating, but understandable sisterly affection for Ruby, but now? What a waste of a character.
Well, now all of those traits are gone
Exactly..
worst thing is when Yang asks if 'she' will think less of her, Jaune says no, thinking she means Ruby, but she replies with "yeah, Ruby..." strongly implies that she is thinking about Blake. lol she doesn't really care for her sister or her uncle in this situation.
that's cause she's none of that anymore
usually character development means adding to a characters complexity not taking away
yet I see people say "oh but they are sisters, they don't have to show it all the time"
I could say the same about her "relationship" with Blake, they don't have to remind us all the time of that either
@@sdbzfan1 but they shove that shit in our faces.
RWBY: Finally introduces a capable huntsmen-
Everyone: Where was you??
RWBY: insert a random reason
Shadi Idelkanoun "I was stuck at McDonalds"
"I was busy being a good character."
"I was trying to run away from RT's bad writing.
I like the implications that any competent character is doing everything they can to avoid being in the plot. They all understand that team RWBY is some reality-altering horror that ruins anyone around them.
"I got the flu"
Ren's is arguing with a member of team rwby? He's going to die with ironwood.
Admiral Ramirez what do you mean? The least marketable and popular member of the team in a series with dwindling interest being killed off just to regain audience attention?
That would never happen.
He stood against Barbara. Cue Blake.
well it is working Ren in Volume 8 is really getting on my nerves at the moment he is second only to Ironwood on my "pleas let him die" list
I mean being critical of their situation is one thing I´m all in on that but he doesn't have to be a bitch about it it is even stupiter that he starts thinking all this now after he was six Volumens long a guy who had the role of the harmoni bringer of the group with a little bit of monk flavor + someone who happily followed orders from someone who cheated his way into school
I mean Yang told Ruby that her decisions were wrong but she didn´t start spraing venom at everyone around her
@@MJsMind I think what yourself and other people get wrong is that he's just thinking this now. As harmony bringer, he doesn't want to be the one to start fights. Hell, he didn't want to talk and yang kept poking him, even I get mad at that. If I don't want to talk now, let me simmer and I'll talk about it when I'm calmer, otherwise, you are gonna get hurt. He's had hints of not thinking they're ready since the last volume is when it became obvious, but even with the nuckelavee he didn't think they were enough to handle it. He follows orders to avoid upsetting the harmony of the team. As for spitting venom, he's just spitting facts. I admit the Jaune one wasn't needed but yangs biggest thing has always been arrogance (relying on her semblance and getting her ass handed to her multiple times, until Taiyang just told her she needs to get better). And its that arrogance that ultimately made her think she DESERVES to know what ren is thinking not concern. Even Nora had the decency to respect Ren's decision to take a different course of action. Meanwhile, the moment someone puts on a thinking cap and questions yang (at any point in the series) her first response isn't introspection and questioning the point like a mature adult (even a second of it would be nice), but to go on the defensive and half the time fight. I'm not saying I agree with the way Ren handled it. It would have been more in character to have him take in a deep breath, calm down then go on a calm but firm tirade of every stupid thing the team has done (cause there's a lot of it). But knowing rwby writing ren's gonna be in the wrong because the power of love and friendship always wins in the end and there aren't really lasting consequences in this world that don't have a quick fix.
I mean they encounter the BBEG this volume and they're probably gonna pull some win out of their asses. To put that in DnD terms. They're level 6-8 (tops) characters who are encountering the final boss of the module who is level 20 and have not and probably will not experience absolutely crushing defeat. I hope to god I'm wrong, but I don't have high hopes for realistic scenarios and responses to actions in this show. Also maybe ren is scared about losing someone else (as that is his trauma) and that's getting to him, but no looking into character motivations here. Just hating anyone who uses logic right?
@@deathlives483 Amen to that.
And with this one scene, Ren became my favorite character. Now i'm just waiting for the writers to ruin him. Only a matter of time.
Hopefully he’ll be dead before that happens
@@jjjwhovian You know there's something up when a characters fan is hoping the character dies in order to preserve their dignity.
@@Gxmwp it’s worked hasn’t it? With Pyrrha, with Roman, it was a shame they couldn’t kill off Adam sooner before they fucked him up
Adam Iornwood and now Ren
I'm just waiting to see how they ruin the only character that doesn't talk.(neo)
I love how everyone treats Ren like the bad guy when Yang is the one who forced Ren to talk about something stressful in a life threatening situation, arguably the worst time to try something this heavy. The fact that Yang couldn’t just hold her temper until they actually found shelter says a lot about her current, supposedly smarter character.
yeah tge worst he did was take some prodding to admit he didn't know the answer to a question beyond that it was obvious he was actively trying not to start something
Yes, the straight man finally does his job. Questions the reasons.
“The straight man”?
@@KokaKola633 I think he/she's talking about Ren
@@KokaKola633 it's not in reference to his sexual preferences, being "the straight man" is person who calls everything exactly how it is and usually doesn't joke around/be the joke like other characters might
@@KokaKola633 Its a story writing mechanic, ie think pinky and the brain or Vagetta to goku. the idea is to create contrast by making to extremes Reason and a kinda chaos this can let the viewers see a plot point, Comedy or in this case an argument for the characters being to deep in stuff they cant win. NOTHING TO DO WITH GENDER OR SEXUAL PREFERENCE, straight in this context means logical and man is just referencing that its a character trope. although i dont blame you if you made that connection the names a little out dated tbh
@@KokaKola633 The straight man is a trope originated from comedy, where there will be one or more wacky goofy characters (for example Sokka and Aang from Avatar) and then one serious or at least less goofy character to counterbalance (for example Zuko from Avatar) The straight man's job is to go "what the fuck are you guys doing" when the funny characters are doing the big funnies, so the straight man's confusion or irritation adds to the joke. Often times the formula will be the funny man doing some crazy thing that makes the audience laugh, then it cuts to the straight man who facepalms and shakes his head. It's called the straight man in reference to "playing it straight" where you take a joke or situation completely seriously, so the straight man is the one who is always playing it straight
It makes me angry how Ren's development shows how the writers know how to make an usually sane man can derange, fall into despair, and go crazy against his comrades.
But they didn't use that *good* writing on Ironwood, the one character that needs it the most.
At least he's not as bad as the main characters
@@megly146 Dude, I just watched a video about Spec Ops: The Line, about how the protag goes in to stop the bad guy but goes insane as he makes harder and harder decisions until he ends up literally burning a mass of civilians and then _denies it_ because he's a _good person, damnit!_ a _hero!_
I don't know, seems pretty interesting how RWBY reflects that, however unintentionally.
@@anonymousapproximation8549 is it that spec ops the line vs last of us 2 video? Cause then count me in too
@@anonymousapproximation8549 I do admit that sounds pretty interesting
Keep in mind that Ruby straight-up lied to Ironwood and destroyed not only his faith in people but Oscar's as well (Ruby lying seemed to break the poor kid's hope that she'd learn from Oz's mistakes, and that led to not only him defying her to tell Ironwood the truth but to his apparently deciding Ozpin's more trustworthy than her now by hiding his reawakening from her). What Ruby did to Ironwood's arguably far worse because he finally started trusting the group and it bit him the ass because he only learned about the lie after (in his mind) giving people a false hope that they could maybe win against Salem - IMHO, it makes sense Ironwood would suffer a worse breakdown of trust in people than Ren.
Ren is the most logical character in this series
That’s a pretty low bar.
Not like we have much to work with in this series
Logic in rwby is basically none Existent
Ironic because this voice actor is not that logical.
Well he is supposed to be.
IDK what I liked more, the fact he verbally destroyed the forced optimism the show gives off, or the fact he did it at Yang.
Yang
Both?
Both, specially Yang.
@@sombraelerizo Both is good
I think it's more a double-edged sword, honestly - there’s a pro *and* con to it.
For the con, the way Ren says it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win as opposed to just surviving. *That,* more than anything, seems to be what Yang and Jaune took issue with.
On the flip-side though, one can also argue that Yang and Jaune are so focused on the “we still have to try/we can't just give up” aspect that they’re trying to avoid acknowledging the hubris they committed in blindly treating Ruby like she’d know what she was doing - the moment Ruby chose to hide the truth from Ironwood, they basically became hypocrites because they just sat there and enabled her to do exactly what they turned on Ozpin for… for no other reason then “we know her” and “she keeps us in the loop” (even though she seemingly didn’t consult them about hiding the truth and made that decision on her own, given Yang’s concern in V7 - only thing different from Oz is that she let everyone know what she’d done). Wrongheaded as one can possibly call Ren for all but openly suggesting they abandon Mantle as a lost cause… Ren does make a valid point that they’ve never really known what they were doing and that it’s not really turned out well for them outside of Haven, given most or all of Ruby's plans to this point have gone wrong constantly and only end in their favor by dumb luck.
When I look at Ruby, a quote from Jonathan Stroud’s “The Bartimaeus Trilogy: The Amulet of Sammarkand” comes to mind, when the story’s namesake demon-protagonist chastises the human-protagonist/his summoner for getting his teacher and said teacher’s wife killed in his game of payback towards another mage;
~ _“It isn't justice or honor that drives you now, boy, but _*_guilt._*_ You can't take the consequences of your actions. You seek to drown out what you've done”_ ~
To me at least, this encapsulates the impetus for Ruby’s actions in the V7 finale and V8 - in V6, she was getting pretty big-for-her-britches in talking about how they’ve come far without Ozpin, and it immediately came back to bite her when their plan caused a fight with the Atlas military that scared the townspeople of Argus and drew a Grimm Leviathan to them. This is that but tenfold - Ruby lied to to Ironwood, seemingly losing faith in authority figures after all the veteran huntsman became broken pedestals to her (Qrow for being a drunk, Oz for being a liar, Lionheart for being a traitor - hell, maybe even her own mother for dying on her) and now, in desperation to fix it, she’s trying to save both Mantle and Atlas even if it jeopardizes the chances of _anyone_ getting out alive by keeping the Winter Maiden away from the Staff of Creation along with splitting Atlas' efforts between her rebellion and Salem's invasion. IMHO, Ren was wrong to act like they shouldn’t try to save people or should just let it go… but at the same time, he’s not wrong to point out they haven’t really had a good track record of things working right under Ruby’s leadership. And I think it's kinda telling that, for all her agitation at Ren seemingly giving up on Mantle, she doesn't actually deny his point about Ruby being a kid in over her head - as if maybe some of her anger is because she knows he's right and that it's partly their fault for just letting Ruby take that responsibility anyway.
Or in short; IMHO, Ren was all but openly saying they should just give up and focus on saving who they can, and I think he was wrong to do that or to use his friends’ personal failures as the fuel for it… but just because he was wrong to do that, it doesn’t mean I think he was wrong to question the inherent hubris in the group treating Ruby like she’d have all the answers or make all the right calls any better than Oz. IMHO, it all comes down to whether you think Ren’s pointing out the flaws in the blind faith they gave Ruby was worth him darn-near forsaking Mantle’s people and weaponizing his friends’ mistakes to make that point - that’s a call each viewer’s gotta make for themselves, I think ^_^;
In the first episode Yang said that Ruby's decisions weren't good. When Ren says the exact same thing, she's in denial of it. Can't keep continuity for even three episodes.
Ren speech would have worked if this show hasn't already been far gone. For all we know, this could be set up for one of the following:
1. Ren is going to die.
2. The team goes against Ren and then Ren has to apologize to the group for his actions.
3. (Least likely to happen) Ren is right and the group face the consequences of their actions.
We will wait and see what happens and hope CRWBY don't screw this up.
and ignoring she an blake screwed up as well
Again we can only hope but I doubt that will do us any good.
2 in my opinion is the most likely
Am I the only who wants to see Salem win? The twist ending is the only one I'm looking forward to anymore. She could probably turn all of the cast into grim dogs and take them all for walks in a Chibi anime style.
I feel like this is going to boil over into Ren defecting to Ironwood's side once he sees what happened to Nora, buuuutttttt _yeeeeeaahhh_ that's... not gonna make his chances of survival look good if that's the case.
"Where are all the other huntsmen?"
Sshhhhhhhhh Vex. Other huntsmen are only allowed to appear to be jobbers. I mean, just imagine if there were people as strong as pyrrah just walking around. Somthing might actually get resolved by someone OTHER than the main characters! Can't have that!
Well, that's the irony - we *already know* where they are; holding position in Atlas so that Ironwood can save most of the combat-capable population by annexing Atlas from the rest of the world... or at least that's his plan. Worse is that any of them operating beyond Atlas right now (including the Ace-Ops) are probably *busy chasing **_RWBY, Penny & JNR._* While most of the huntsman are probably fortifying Atlas itself against Grimm, only the elites like Ace-Ops are probably acting beyond Atlas itself right now... and instead of scouting the Grimm or slowing them down, they're having to hunt down their own Maiden so that they can make sure there's even an out if Atlas's forces can't repel the Grimm.
Sure, Ruby wanting to save both Atlas and Mantle is commendable... but in stealing away the Winter Maiden, Ruby locked off the Staff of Creation to Ironwood and is basically forcing him to stand his ground against Salem's invasion - hell, one could argue she's practically *blackmailing* Ironwood to either protect everyone or die trying by keeping Penny out of his custody. So now Ironwood's basically forced to divide his forces and attention between hunting Ruby's rebellion and preparing for the Grimm, because in his mind its better to save Atlas (and by extension, the majority of combat-ready people/huntsman) than lose both Atlas and Mantle - especially given that... well, Ruby hasn't exactly given him reason to trust people anymore, now has she...? ^_^;
@@mrmetroid1078 youre mistaken about the scale of the fck up on rubys part. salem wants to gether the relics, which will make the gods return, which will wipe humanity, cause you know, humanity is still unworthy at this point. so theyre not only risking atlas, theyre risking the whole world.
@@firefox30570 Actually, I think Oz, Oscar, Tyrian, Mercury, Emerald and Hazel are the only ones aware that Salem's end-goal is to straight-up end the world rather than ruling it. So I don't think that part's fair to consider when it wasn't part of the reasons for why the groups made their choices.
That said, even putting that aside I think that's kinda the same thing still - like I said before, Ruby's kinda caused the schism for Atlas herself because she's so fixated on "fixing the problem" that she's arguably not rationalizing if the problem *can* be fixed, much less if the alternative isn't actually worse in the long run or not. Even in the most recent teaser she asks "How do we fix it" - not "can we" or "should we" - which suggests that even now she still has the belief she can find a way to save everyone... and the one who has to tell her to slow her roll and focus on the smaller picture/the problems in front of her isn't her teammates and friends but a *relative stranger* (i.e. Klein).
@@mrmetroid1078 Again, you really seem like you can’t handle any criticism of this show.
@@firefox30570 Your correct but if you look throughout the comments this person is trying to argue with everyone who has legit criticism about the show.
Ren’s line about Jaune cheating his way into beacon, may not have been relevant for a while, but I did love it because it furthers his point that none of them are in any place of authority to be dictating how an entire city should be saved. For us it’s been almost 8 years, for them it’s been barely 2, and yet they still got their huntsmen licenses, which Ren acknowledges as BS.
Exactly, they werent even tasked with bringing down some huge ass grimms as requirement, like even fanfiction did that.
Exactly. Heroes shouldn't force authority upon anyone or anything or completely control everyone and everything.
“The past volumes are canon”
Tell that to the writers, who seem to have forgotten that Jaune can replenish aura.
If his own aura is low, can he replenish others?
Or is it like a battery, where when empty, doesn't power anything kind of deal?
@@GothicOtaku33 The best case scenario would be that he could replenish his own aura. But given that he hasn't done that yet, I guess he is just a support with a limited supply of heals and no self-sufficiency.
Its clearly a battery and not energy out of nowhere. Thats how he boosts people. He's giving them some of his own power to make them stronger.
If you think Yang’s bad in this scene, it gets worse afterwards with the talk with Jaune...
One word: Priorities =^=
Let's add two more words: are fucked.
@@ShadowMasterLuigi right?
Even looking at the clips of the scene, I just facepalmed...and that’s coming from a former fan of the show. When she said “Yeah...Ruby...”, that’s just cold. Yeah u make the BUMLB shippers happy but...bruh. Did they forget that Yang and Ruby are SISTERS? Ok HALF sisters but still they’re sisters nonetheless.
"All I care about is that my sister is safe, unless I'm going for my waifu, then I seem to forget that I have a sister."
@@BWEEOOP they no longer have that sisterly bond since they reunited in volume 5; no, I’m not blaming BUMBLB in this one (cause let’s face it shippings are everywhere in this show...a lot of “will they won’t theys”, few “legit” ones and things that don’t make sense but people just ship them just cause)…I blame the writers for clearly ignoring that fact. Heck, RWBY Chibi still kept that factor on, why not in their own main show? =^=
its just sad they had this amazing set up for Yang's character. She idolizes Summer as her super mom and loses her when she was too young to do anything about it and her actual mom wanted nothing to do with her for most of her life. She then internalizes this to step up as Ruby's mother figure. There's a lot to work with there
but for whatever reason she won't stop obsessing over Blake who has actually done nothing to earn this level of attachment and honestly Blake is the only one who resembles Raven, someone Yang demonizes. It's just kind of ironic that Yang lectures Raven for not caring about her or anyone, but then Yang isn't even remotely concern about Ruby at any point after volume 2.
Can we just get to talking about Yang thinking about BLAKE and not her FREAKING DAMN SISTER??????
Yang's character has been turned to shit since vol 4 sooooooooo not much to complain about anymore.
like many other rwby youtubers that acuttaly enjoy the show say that yang does not always need to care about her sister like comon so shes just going to ignore the rest of her team
Well some people say Yang thinks Ruby and her will eventually get over it. Whatever disagreement they have is small by comparison to the love they have for each other over the years. I don't know what they're fighting about. I only consume this show via short reviews and videos commenting on it. Like this one. I stopped watching when they killed Adam. For me that fight felt like they were killing potential and pushing 2 characters who barely interacted with each other, together romantically. I don't necessarily agree with that idea though. It sounds like an excuse to me. Like they're only making an excuse to validate the ship. I may not recall the specifics of their fight, but if I got into a fight recently with my sister and I'm going to a place where I might die I'd probably be thinking about what I would've done differently, was that fight worth it, does she hate me, will I ever see her again. I'm surprised Yang isn't making gallows humor during a situation like this or intentionally setting death flags.
😬 This is longer than I thought it would be
Yall obviously never had a sibling growing up.
No matter how much we may disagree we fucking love each other til the end.
Thats why she was worried about Blake because the way Adam made decisions that were bad for the white fang. Shes worried Blake will think she's acting similar to how Adam acted. We can't forget the trauma they both experienced.
Like it or not bmblb aint fan service. Monty said he always planned for their to be a main lgbtq+ ship in the show. This is what we get
Now suck it up buttercups
One of the most hollow characters until now suddenly became the best character, in any other show, this would be a great sign, here is only a sign about how much the writers don't understand what they are doing
I disagree on the jaune cheating being irrelevant. His whole point is that their inexperienced, ruby might be a kid but she's at least had proper training. Jaune hasn't had any if that, he couldn't even pass the bare minimum requirements to get into beacon so he's arguably the leats qualified to know what to do next because he's been only been doing this for about a year. Everyone else might also be inexperienced but jaune is by far least
This is a very good point.
Although Ren's point should have made sense since he was calling out each one's cons, it seems off at that moment because he refers to something that happened years ago. His lack of skills then doesn't apply to the present. Ruby's inability to make the right decisions because she's way too young, does, however, as long as the other things he said.
It's irrelevant because it never mattered and it still doesn't matter. What is Ren acknowledging this going to do? How does it matter to the narrative going on? It doesn't, bevayse unless team ewby loses, then juane cheating his way in doesnt mean anything, especially when despite this, Juane has succeeded in being the planner
@@BabyGirlTiny mate come on I love jaune but he's not exactly sun tsu. His plans consist mostly of doing the sane thing harder and steal an airship.
And if we're talking irrelevant arguments why is Yang trying to pick a fight in the first place. Ren clearly just wants to focus on getting back and moving forward. Whys she gotta start a fight
@@chrishart5265 and those plans worked, so who cares if he’s not Sun tsu. Hell, Ozpin knew he cheated and still made him the leader over Pyrrah, because we’re supposed to see that there is something in juane that makes him perfect to be a leader, and that’s his strategies and plans.
And a lot of things are irrelevant in this series that they bring up. Hell, Yang and Ruby’s fight is irrelevant, because Yang doesn’t care about it, and Ruby doesn’t seem to have any issue with it. So why are they in conflict with one another, when all Yang had to say was, I want to focus on this, you can focus on this, and Ruby would have probably been okay with it.
Stupid kids: *burning down an entire nation*
Professionals: *looks at clock*
“Eh. Five more minutes.”
"Seems like those kids can handle it"
I like how Yang brought up the leviathan and Haven but for all the wrong reasons because it just makes her look oblivious in my opinion.
The leviathan was the ultimate result of the cluster fuck of a catastrophe that their plan (unintentionally) lead up to. They didn't do shit to the leviathan. They won because Ruby had the /KillAll keyboard command (that didn't even kill it) and Cordovin was the one that actually took it down and stopped the thing from wrecking Argus. Speaking of which how is Argus even doing? We don't even know if it's a pile of debris and bodies right now or not.
For Haven, they were getting their asses handed to them the entire time until it took a whole civilian militia and literally an entire police force and a maiden with a ton of experience to actually turn things around and win it. They practically had their hands held toward the end.
It's like that scene in DBZA where Trunks does all the work and brutalizes Frieza and Krillin is like "Good work, team!"
problem is, DBZA did that as a joke, and rwby is completely serious with this
and the villains were nerfed
Not to mention originally Rwby were gonna just abandon Argus to the leviathan after disabling Cordovan's mech
RT's trying to paint their protags as selfless heroes going around trying to save everyone but so far it's all been them have to clean up their own messes and hald the time they don't even finish it
Rwby: don't abandon mantle they'll die
Rwby again: Let's trap atlas in the sky so they can't be saved, then abandon mantle ourselves for Oscar
whilst it makes sense to want to save oscar, you're being hipocrits, you were shitting on Ironwood for doing exactly what you're doing
@@93ImagineBreaker They were tho which makes it all the more embarrassing.
@@MIR_ilmenite just proves they need handicaps to win
I feel like they ruined Yang's character even more by forcing her to be the one opposing Ren's views. Not like there is much for her anyways, but I feel the writers made her be the one to argue just so Ren could keep going and pointing out more and more stuff that they've messed up on.
One thing that I think is interesting is that when Ren “yells” he isn’t really yelling. I feel like some people would call that bad voice acting on Neath Oum’s part, but I don’t think that’s the case. It really shows that Ren’s voice isn’t capable of reaching a certain volume when truly angered because of how rarely he ever gets truly angry. His vocal chords aren’t used to the strain, and so instead of shouting, his voice becomes raised and clipped. I don’t know why I noticed that. I just thought it was kinda interesting.
They're going to kill Ren off and ship Nora and Weiss, calling it now
But what about Weiss x Torchwicks Ghost, everyone's favorite Pairing?
Facts they be forcing some lgbt ships bruh😭
of coures they gonna kill off more of Jaunes teammates over stupid shipping , this is going to piss everyone off , am still going to think that Nora is going to die or both of them die
lol
Honestly, I wouldn't mind a ship between Yang and Nora. Why? Don't know. I just like it for some reason.
Anything can look like a great character when you put them next to yang...
even a fucking Grimm too she made the leviathan look good
So potato bag?
Long story short:
Ren: *We're all gonna f@cking die, and it's our fault.*
yea pretty much
It kinda is their fault, they took a 9000 level mission while being around levels 30-40 and bullshitted their way through it with lies and luck
"we were holding back" lol nice save there RWBY writers
imagine having a 6 man high school wrestling team fight 6 of the best Navy Seals. Unless the Navy Seals straight up throw the match, holding back wouldn't make much of a difference.
Even in anime. If the power gap is too high, "holding back" will, in the best case scenario, result in a lucky hit before being curbstomped.
Holding back shouldn't give them a pass unless they were hiding super secret techniques or a "transformation". Especially not when they have a dude who can freeze anyone he wants.
@@LuisRodriguez-tp8rz on top of that, unlike other anime that try to have a progression tiers of fighters, RWBY has auras. You'd think if the battle was going in team RWBY's favor the Ace Ops would put more effort and waste them
Or hell because Team RWBY has auras, the Ace ops should just go all out immediately and restrain them when their auras were gone
There's just no excuse
this retcon is just a piss poor attempt to cover up how much the writers fucked up. Among countless other fuck ups
@@wlfmanjack Marrow´s za warudo´s too broken too.
There was honestly no way Ren could have pulled the “And you let Pyrrha die” move, because he isn’t the type to hurt other people to make a point, and because he would never, ever recover from the hate the fandom would slam him with for it.
This was Ren calling out on the main characters and the writers of this show.
Now he's going to get killed because both parties can't take criticism 😑
Well not necessarily in that particular volume but in the next volume I will not be surprised
That is if there is a next volume with what's happening with Rooster Teeth and Warner Brothers\AT&T
(If Salem uses the relic)
Jinn: Ruby, i swear to the gods, i told you that-
Salem: ...
Jinn: Oh.
Hello there
GENERAL KENOBI!! Oops... Wrong fandom
Salem: So tell me how you know Ruby...
Jinn: and now the part of Ruby will be played by a Scary evil and ugly old woman.........
Only Disney fans will understand the reference I just made lol
@@mikezilla54d13
I’m not a Disney fan and I got it............. :)
@@SydCar I don't, pls help.
“Common sense has entered the fray” best line ever 😂
Ren actually acknowledges that they’ve messed up and that they are making the wrong choices, and yang being the one that’s mad annoys me because all 3 of them got their asses handed to them by Salems Grimm dog, thing
Ren is the only smart one in the team prove me wrong.
That like trying to proof 1 + 1 = 5
@@justacheese34yearsago28 Denzel Crocker 2 + 2 equals fish
They all are aren't ready for the Salem smoke.
Well, technically it's Yang's fault for dragging the argument out of him, them fighting out in snow with limited aura wasn't the best idea considering it could attract grim
he waited till the worst possible outcome came out to actually say anything and even then it was when Yang kept poking him does he actually talk, not that it matters at the moment. I blame it on the show having way too many characters that they never give anyone a chance to to actually develop, if the cast the was shorter then I could actually see Ren debating with Ruby about how to leading and what to do with the Ironwood situation at the very beginning before all hell brakes loose. But then again not talking has always been Ren character flaw (it's why his semblance is the way it is).
The best part is when he calls Ruby a child
I wish Ruby was around to hear that. She would've been triggered.
@@tamiej.5558 Actually, given everything that's happened... I'm not so sure. Hell, *Yang* doesn't even deny it - she gets pissed at Ren suggesting they give up on Mantle or that them making mistakes means they shouldn't keep trying... but neither she nor Jaune denied it when he called Ruby out for being a kid that they just let take charge of everything.
@@mrmetroid1078 I don't think he was saying they 'give up' on Mantle. At least, that isn't what I got from his rant. I got that he was scared and didn't know what to do, and didn't trust that Ruby or Yang or Jaune or anyone knew what to do.
I feel it might've been conveyed better if Yang had straight up asked him that:
Yang: "So, you're just saying we should give up on Mantle?"
Ren: "I'm asking: how are we supposed to save it when we couldn't even save Oscar?!"
This wasn't an argument where one of them could come out the winner. Both sides had legit points to them, but at the end of the day, Ren was lashing out because he was scared and didn't know how to convey his fear in a healthy manner, and Yang escalated the situation by responding to his fear with anger. It's honestly kinda sad, when you think about it. :'(
@@johnking9943 He was advocating that they didn't know what they were doing and that, as Yang pointed out, they should just give Ironwood what he wants - and what he wanted was to separate Atlas from Mantle, thereby leaving everyone there to die. That is, quite implicitly, suggesting they're in the wrong to try and save Mantle - and what made Yang so angry was that his reasoning for it is based in self-depreciation over past mistakes, rather than if it's really the best to do or not.
So; right idea about them lashing out on each-other because of high-strung emotions, but what Yang and Jaune took issue with was more why Ren started that argument than what he said - because frankly speaking, none of them deny his point that they don't know what they're doing; hell, Yang didn't comment on Ren's low-key diss of Ruby being "just a kid". Their problem was with the idea of just giving up on people - that, as Jaune's conversation later would suggest, they shouldn't stop caring about what they think is best or fighting for it just because of past mistakes; that they can't just let others decide it all for them (which arguably suggests Jaune has *also* come to see the group's past implicit trust in Ruby's judgement to have been a mistake).
@@mrmetroid1078 True.
Like I mentioned, it wasn't an argument that anyone could really win. And it's not a bad thing that Jaune and Yang want to keep the people of Mantle from dying. If anything, it's incredibly noble.
It just feels like Ren was trying to ask 'how?' in response: "You want to save Mantle? Fine. How do we do it?"
This is like those harem anime
The side character have allot of character until they get the attention, soon join the group, and lose all the good things of them
Who else wants to bet Ren's gonna get killed off for the sake of Nora's character arc?
Would CRWBY have the balls to do that though?
@@megly146 Yes they would
20 bucks that he'll "become crazy and join Ironwood", then fight against Nora and ending up dying because of the fight or trying to save Nora from "the crazy Ironwood"
@@gabrielh.a.p9989 so 20 bucks for Ren to make absolutely no sense?
@@megly146 20 for everyone making no sense
After this episode, I started miss Glynda and Oobleck... They actually try going his job teaching new huntress
Its so weird how the just ceased to exist. No mention of then since the fall of beacon
@@BluemoonLacrymosa Right like where are they!! It’s so weird how huntsmen disappear cause I feel goodwitch would have least had a handle on this they could’ve even gave her an interesting arc with he disillusionment with ozpin and guilt with how they handle beacon
@@hannahdunlap5171 Spoilers:
GLYNDA STILL EXISTS!!! She gave up fixing that pillar, though 😅
Couldn’t Ironwood have just sent the ace ops to pick up Penny’s creator rather than trusting the guy he just had a death battle with?
What are you talking about? Ironwood can't do smart things, he's EVIL!
Ren at the start of the next episode having no talks with Yang or Jaune: I’m sorry guys
I just didn't like Yang's approach at all. Why was she provoking Ren, instead of comforting him? Aren't they friends? Isn't negativity a bad thing for everyone? Why do something that will spread it?
The only thing they kept about Yang from volume 1-3 her stupid temper.
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 She was never that bad in regards to her temper.
Vol 4 and onwards, Yang is unreasonably angry and threatening toward her allies more than her enemies
@@carbodude5414 yeah while she was hot headed in volumes 1-3 she was more soft towards her friends now she feels like the one who starts bad situations.
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 From V1-V3 she had a temper. But it was just that. A bit of a short fuse but it burned out pretty quickly.
Now, she's a full on bully. She punches down and berates anyone who stands against her and her Mistress Bitch-Kitten. In every damn way, she is as bad, if not worse than Adam.
Is this Blake's real Semblance? Does being around her turn once decent people into raging Simps like radiation causes tumors and cancer?
@@carbodude5414 there is a part of me that wishes I could defend this with the fact she lost her arm at the end of vol 3, that her already quick temper was made even worse by her trauma to the point of lashing out at even her family and friends, but sadly I cant do that since the show did so little with that aspect of what her character could have been that it feels like trying to thread separate ideas together that have little to no ties
"seriously,is your goal just to push everyone away?" Yeah look who's actually talking Yang
There sheer balls on her saying that when she's pushed so many people away that her own sister's safety means nothing to her when she still worries over Bitch-Kitten. AKA, the only thing she cares about anymore.
@@randomcenturion7264 she only cares for her side piece now.
Something else that makes me angry; Yang started all of this. Ren didn't start accusing her or Jaune of not being ready out of nowhere; he just wanted to stay focused on getting out of the cold. But then she started giving him crap about not being positive - despite the fact that they just lost Oscar! - then escalated the situation when he finally did open up and admitted how scared and out of his league he felt.
As an introvert, I relate a lot to Ren, and absolutely hate when people like Yang do that: if you didn't care about what we're thinking about, why did you force us to open up in the first place?
If they really wanted ren to say devastating facts what he should've done is this........
Yang:...... don't you care what happens to the people in mantle?!
Ren: like how you cared about ruby when she left with us to go to haven? How long DID you take before you got off your ass and did something?! Did you care that your LITTLE sister went on a dangerous journey in uncharted territory full of Grimm, or were you more worried about Blake?!
Jaune: come on man! This isnt helping anyone.......
Ren: YOU COULDNT EVEN HELP PYYRHA WHEN SHE NEEDED IT! *stun silence* you cheated your way into beacon because you weren't strong enough, you weren't strong enough to support pyyrha, what makes you think you're strong enough to help now?
That would've been good
Sadly that would be hollow as Yang doesn’t care about Ruby and hasn’t for some time.
Character: *makes sense*
Writers: "So you have chosen death"
In the words of Mr. Popo "He's gonna die"
Sudden character development, sudden focus on him after who knows how long. Dude just needs to wear a couple red flags and it'll be set. That or Nora just to make Ren a villain or something. WHEN they kill off Ren- Jaune will have a harem just like all the Jaune shippers wanted. *for clarity sake that last part is a joke oh god I hope it doesn't come to that.
Yea I might like Jaune and I am not a shipper I repeat I am not a shipper, but god I hope that doesn't happen
Level of Red Flag: Ren just became a bunch of red flags knitted in human shape
@@d.tsukuyomi1869 Ackshually, he's a humanoid spacial anomaly filled with infinite red flags compressed into an infinitely dense mass.
Ren and death is the new cannon prove me wrong
Blake and yang are tied for my least favourite characters in the show, I don’t like how the writers love to shove their gayness in our faces without any build up to their relationship romantically at all. Volume 4 they were basically setting up Blake and suns relationship and then they wrote him off like nothing so they could push bumblebee forward which would’ve been fine had they executed it correctly which they didn’t.
I just want sun back man, he don’t need to be with blake I just miss my homie
SAME I MISS HIM TO I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE :( and I agree with everything u said
Trust me, you don't. They will find some way to ruin him as a character, I just know it. Hell, they might decide to make him clingy and/or abusive, just to drive another nail into the "Ships that oppose the mighty Bumblebee" coffin🤦♀️
SERIOUSLY AND ITS ONLY GOTTEN WORSE IN VOLUME 9
Blake doesn't deserve him
"We were holding back!" is the new "they're locked!"
Funny thing is Marrow is always holding back, but the other Aceops aside from Clover were just a bunch of jobbers taking advantage of his good luck.
Ren will:
a) Be painted as a bad guy for not agreeing with Yang, and most likely die to something stupid because, plot.
b) He will see the error of his ways and beg for forgiveness. Then crawl back to being a boring character again.
And they went for the b-plot
@@djmars1983 Typical RT.
Notice how in fanfics you get actual legit Huntsmen that do there job and not die
*do their job...
I mean fanfics aren't restricted by plot armour/contrivance (insert an Emerald diving in gif saying "NOOO!" here).
Coeur is a master at this.
@@d.tsukuyomi1869 I don't like when he (or anyone) crosses over with his own story. But yeah, he's fantastic.
@@anonymousapproximation8549 yeah, yeah, it feels a bit cheap for me, but even so, with the limited info we had from volumes 1-3, he still managed to write one of my favorite fics 'Not This Time, Fate' and only managed to improve, like Professor Arc II: Headmaster Arc (where he put the Ace Ops organically like a true chad) and is a genius and a master at his craft, writing circles around M&K.
And he does it with, like, all of the 7 fanfics he writes simultaneously.
They only had Ren say "You cheated" to Jaune to make Ren the obvious "bad guy" in that argument (even though Yang provoked him into lashing out in the first place) when that scene could've gone a completely different way if the emphasis wasn't on Jaune cheating but on how Jaune is frequently _rewarded_ for his incompetence while his teammates had to work harder to compensate for it. If Pyrrha actually felt that Jaune genuinely earned his place in Beacon, she wouldn't have shoved him in a rocket locker and fought Cinder alone
I really liked Ren at the end Vol 7 and hen Vol 8 I knew I would love Ren.
Ren has jumped from 6th place to 1st.
Who took 6th place now
@@deamonmindgaming2054 Definitely not yang lol she's probably like around were Robyn is rn
@@MIR_ilmenite In the trash bin below the ranking list?
@@anonymousapproximation8549 Yes
Yang was SO ANNOYING in this chapter. "What is your deal?!" "Seriously? Is your goal to push everyone away?" like, OH my GOD. Ren is the ONLY one with common sense in this group. He literally saved her and Jaune from falling cause they just happened to forget what landing strategies were. Now, the writers are gonna kill him off for having a single working braincell. If he just let them fall, I would've been happy cause then, I wouldn't hate Yang as much as I do now.
Anyone remember Flynt Coals team? How they basically cameoed last season and never appeared again even though all this stuff is happening in their home. Im not saying we need more characters to be done badly but its really weird to me.
There were way too many characters last season, so that's probably why. The problem is that RWBY needs a bigger budget, more episodes, longer episodes, and a full year production cycle.
@@buffgarfield3231 The twins in vol. 4 were a really bad addition
For now, he's at least being the most logical (but that's not saying much).
Though he still hasn't chewed anyone out for betraying the man who actually knew what to do and had the resources to do it.
I think it's more a double-edged sword, honestly - there’s a pro *and* con to it.
For the con, the way Ren says it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win as opposed to just surviving. *That,* more than anything, seems to be what Yang and Jaune took issue with.
On the flip-side though, one can also argue that Yang and Jaune are so focused on the “we still have to try/we can't just give up” aspect that they’re trying to avoid acknowledging the hubris they committed in blindly treating Ruby like she’d know what she was doing - the moment Ruby chose to hide the truth from Ironwood, they basically became hypocrites because they just sat there and enabled her to do exactly what they turned on Ozpin for… for no other reason then “we know her” and “she keeps us in the loop” (even though she seemingly didn’t consult them about hiding the truth and made that decision on her own, given Yang’s concern in V7 - only thing different from Oz is that she let everyone know what she’d done). Wrongheaded as one can possibly call Ren for all but openly suggesting they abandon Mantle as a lost cause… Ren does make a valid point that they’ve never really known what they were doing and that it’s not really turned out well for them outside of Haven, given most or all of Ruby's plans to this point have gone wrong constantly and only end in their favor by dumb luck.
When I look at Ruby, a quote from Jonathan Stroud’s “The Bartimaeus Trilogy: The Amulet of Sammarkand” comes to mind, when the story’s namesake demon-protagonist chastises the human-protagonist/his summoner for getting his teacher and said teacher’s wife killed in his game of payback towards another mage;
~ _“It isn't justice or honor that drives you now, boy, but _*_guilt._*_ You can't take the consequences of your actions. You seek to drown out what you've done”_ ~
To me at least, this encapsulates the impetus for Ruby’s actions in the V7 finale and V8 - in V6, she was getting pretty big-for-her-britches in talking about how they’ve come far without Ozpin, and it immediately came back to bite her when their plan caused a fight with the Atlas military that scared the townspeople of Argus and drew a Grimm Leviathan to them. This is that but tenfold - Ruby lied to to Ironwood, seemingly losing faith in authority figures after all the veteran huntsman became broken pedestals to her (Qrow for being a drunk, Oz for being a liar, Lionheart for being a traitor - hell, maybe even her own mother for dying on her) and now, in desperation to fix it, she’s trying to save both Mantle and Atlas even if it jeopardizes the chances of _anyone_ getting out alive by keeping the Winter Maiden away from the Staff of Creation along with splitting Atlas' efforts between her rebellion and Salem's invasion. IMHO, Ren was wrong to act like they shouldn’t try to save people or should just let it go… but at the same time, he’s not wrong to point out they haven’t really had a good track record of things working right under Ruby’s leadership. And I think it's kinda telling that, for all her agitation at Ren seemingly giving up on Mantle, she doesn't actually deny his point about Ruby being a kid in over her head - as if maybe some of her anger is because she knows he's right and that it's partly their fault for just letting Ruby take that responsibility anyway.
Or in short; IMHO, Ren was all but openly saying they should just give up and focus on saving who they can, and I think he was wrong to do that or to use his friends’ personal failures as the fuel for it… but just because he was wrong to do that, it doesn’t mean I think he was wrong to question the inherent hubris in the group treating Ruby like she’d have all the answers or make all the right calls any better than Oz. IMHO, it all comes down to whether you think Ren’s pointing out the flaws in the blind faith they gave Ruby was worth him darn-near forsaking Mantle’s people and weaponizing his friends’ mistakes to make that point - that’s a call each viewer’s gotta make for themselves, I think ^_^;
This man is always spitting facts. I had completely forgotten about the other Huntsman because they rarely appear, and when they do, they either need "help" or just incompetent in combat. That scene of HxH really made me think. How the hell is the power scaling so weird?
Its ridiculous. They built a world based around children going to a school to train to be huntsmen. The "World of RWBY" keeps referencing huntsmen, but outside of basically useless side-characters, we have no veterans. The way this is written, you would think that only Beacon was a hunter academy and were responsible for the world's hunter supply, rather than there being 3 other schools
@@BluemoonLacrymosa Right! Where are the veterans? Why are the only ones who seem to do anything are these indecisive kids? I get it that Salem killed a lot of experienced huntsman who Qrow trusted, but I have yet to see a huntsman or huntress and say to myself, "wow they are super strong."(other than like Glynda or Maria in her prime) Like in HxH, when the veterans appeared they were genuinely handling the chimera ants with the help of the kids. All of the side characters here either are just full blown useless at combat, or can't make a good decision with the greater threat at hand. Haven was empty and Atlas ops got outclassed by kids who barely trained.
At some point Jaune, Nora, but most possibly Ren has to ask "Why did Ironwood have us out for arrest?" Because from their point of view it's an incomplete picture
I like that scene, but they make it look like Ren is in the wrong for calling this out. I bet later on he will admit he was wrong or will later try to join ironwood. Most likely the former.
Ren is going to be the one to die, he is the Neji Hyuga of RWBY. He is sending major death flags as he overcame the monster that destroyed his village, is levelheaded and Nora confused her love. RIP Ren
I agree with most of this. Ren has valid points, but your counter is just as strong; if they don't step up, who is going to? Because most of the adult Huntsmen in the series haven't been shown to be hyper-competent themselves. There aren't 50 Qrow-tier skilled Huntsmen lining up to take their places or anything.
Maybe they'll actually play into this. The whole "We AREN'T ready, but we're never going to be, nobody else is either, and we have to move anyways". That would have been a stronger counter to Ren than what Yang said. I guess we'll see.
Another thing I'd bring up is that this... really isn't a "typical Huntsman situation". Fighting Grimm is one thing, but fighting hyper-competent extremely powerful Grimm while the anti-christ of the setting lurks a few blocks away? That's a little more extreme.
Kind of a lose-lose situation they are stuck in right now
All the more reason to have Ironwood help them... Well, it would've makes much more sense since he's basically more experienced at ordering people around since he's military.
That is, if they didn't just screw that part up.
Also, now that I think of it, almost every soldier in the Atlas military should be huntsmen right? Since Atlas Academy do train them to be Specialists or something like that... but the only specialists we have are the AceOps and Winter. What do you think happened to the rest of the Specialists? I'm sure Ironwood didn't kill em since he wouldn't pull a Lionheart so yeah...
How to become the best character in one scene. Please don't turn this into a situation where Ren is made out to be wrong, Roosterteeth.
What am I saying, of course they will. They manage to ruin anything good they create. Only a matter of time before they find a way to ruin this scene.
Only a matter of time before they find a way to ruin Neo the only mute character.
Nah, this isn't self-awareness. This is them trying to paint Ren as being in a dark place and saying 'untrue', hurtful things because he's beating himself up for thinking the 'wrong' things and making the 'wrong' choices. The whole reason this is happening is because the writers want to show how incorrect Ren is. This whole scene is going to be building up to him later saying how wrong he was, then falling in line with the rest of the main cast's blind idealistic optimism.
This hurt cause it'll likely become true
I hate how true this is.
Spot on...unfortunately for this show.
Yeah, you're not wrong. Time to set our watches for when this happens. How many episodes will it take?
I disagree; I think it's more a double-edged sword, honestly - there’s a pro *and* con to it.
For the con, the way Ren says it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win as opposed to just surviving. *That,* more than anything, seems to be what Yang and Jaune took issue with.
On the flip-side though, one can also argue that Yang and Jaune are so focused on the “we still have to try/we can't just give up” aspect that they’re trying to avoid acknowledging the hubris they committed in blindly treating Ruby like she’d know what she was doing - the moment Ruby chose to hide the truth from Ironwood, they basically became hypocrites because they just sat there and enabled her to do exactly what they turned on Ozpin for… for no other reason then “we know her” and “she keeps us in the loop” (even though she seemingly didn’t consult them about hiding the truth and made that decision on her own, given Yang’s concern in V7 - only thing different from Oz is that she let everyone know what she’d done). Wrongheaded as one can possibly call Ren for all but openly suggesting they abandon Mantle as a lost cause… Ren does make a valid point that they’ve never really known what they were doing and that it’s not really turned out well for them outside of Haven, given most or all of Ruby's plans to this point have gone wrong constantly and only end in their favor by dumb luck.
When I look at Ruby, a quote from Jonathan Stroud’s “The Bartimaeus Trilogy: The Amulet of Sammarkand” comes to mind, when the story’s namesake demon-protagonist chastises the human-protagonist/his summoner for getting his teacher and said teacher’s wife killed in his game of payback towards another mage;
~ _“It isn't justice or honor that drives you now, boy, but _*_guilt._*_ You can't take the consequences of your actions. You seek to drown out what you've done”_ ~
To me at least, this encapsulates the impetus for Ruby’s actions in the V7 finale and V8 - in V6, she was getting pretty big-for-her-britches in talking about how they’ve come far without Ozpin, and it immediately came back to bite her when their plan caused a fight with the Atlas military that scared the townspeople of Argus and drew a Grimm Leviathan to them. This is that but tenfold - Ruby lied to to Ironwood, seemingly losing faith in authority figures after all the veteran huntsman became broken pedestals to her (Qrow for being a drunk, Oz for being a liar, Lionheart for being a traitor - hell, maybe even her own mother for dying on her) and now, in desperation to fix it, she’s trying to save both Mantle and Atlas even if it jeopardizes the chances of _anyone_ getting out alive by keeping the Winter Maiden away from the Staff of Creation along with splitting Atlas' efforts between her rebellion and Salem's invasion. IMHO, Ren was wrong to act like they shouldn’t try to save people or should just let it go… but at the same time, he’s not wrong to point out they haven’t really had a good track record of things working right under Ruby’s leadership. And I think it's kinda telling that, for all her agitation at Ren seemingly giving up on Mantle, she doesn't actually deny his point about Ruby being a kid in over her head - as if maybe some of her anger is because she knows he's right and that it's partly their fault for just letting Ruby take that responsibility anyway.
Or in short; IMHO, Ren was all but openly saying they should just give up and focus on saving who they can, and I think he was wrong to do that or to use his friends’ personal failures as the fuel for it… but just because he was wrong to do that, it doesn’t mean I think he was wrong to question the inherent hubris in the group treating Ruby like she’d have all the answers or make all the right calls any better than Oz. IMHO, it all comes down to whether you think Ren’s pointing out the flaws in the blind faith they gave Ruby was worth him darn-near forsaking Mantle’s people and weaponizing his friends’ mistakes to make that point - that’s a call each viewer’s gotta make for themselves, I think ^_^;
I didn’t even think about a possible “ranking” system, there should be a group of remnant’s “best” like the 12 zodiacs equip to handle stuff like this. And YEAH team RWBY would be in their sophomore year of Beacon and the lost to elite and established huntsman, that’s dumb.
I'm worried because Ren is making sense, enough sense that the writers will make him do something deliberately stupid, fooling the audience that Ren was in the wrong, just like they did with Ironwood.
IDK; I think it's more a double-edged sword, honestly - there’s a pro *and* con to it.
For the con, the way Ren says it makes it seem like he's advocating they give up and not even try to save all the people of Mantle; that they should just call it a lost cause and act by numbers like Ironwood was going to without even making an effort. That’s not something I could ever see Yang or Jaune accepting, especially since they seem to treat this as their personal responsibility to fix as being part of the reason these people are all in danger by driving Ironwood over the edge. He talks like they should just let people die - that because they’ve made mistakes, they shouldn’t try anymore. That’s dangerously close to what Ruby’s team was like under the Apathy Grimm’s appearance - and this being Ren who’s Semblance is meant for calming emotions, this isn’t just panic; he’s genuinely hitting “fuck it” where he’s no longer seeing a point in trying to win as opposed to just surviving. *That,* more than anything, seems to be what Yang and Jaune took issue with.
On the flip-side though, one can also argue that Yang and Jaune are so focused on the “we still have to try/we can't just give up” aspect that they’re trying to avoid acknowledging the hubris they committed in blindly treating Ruby like she’d know what she was doing - the moment Ruby chose to hide the truth from Ironwood, they basically became hypocrites because they just sat there and enabled her to do exactly what they turned on Ozpin for… for no other reason then “we know her” and “she keeps us in the loop” (even though she seemingly didn’t consult them about hiding the truth and made that decision on her own, given Yang’s concern in V7 - only thing different from Oz is that she let everyone know what she’d done). Wrongheaded as one can possibly call Ren for all but openly suggesting they abandon Mantle as a lost cause… Ren does make a valid point that they’ve never really known what they were doing and that it’s not really turned out well for them outside of Haven, given most or all of Ruby's plans to this point have gone wrong constantly and only end in their favor by dumb luck.
When I look at Ruby, a quote from Jonathan Stroud’s “The Bartimaeus Trilogy: The Amulet of Sammarkand” comes to mind, when the story’s namesake demon-protagonist chastises the human-protagonist/his summoner for getting his teacher and said teacher’s wife killed in his game of payback towards another mage;
~ _“It isn't justice or honor that drives you now, boy, but _*_guilt._*_ You can't take the consequences of your actions. You seek to drown out what you've done”_ ~
To me at least, this encapsulates the impetus for Ruby’s actions in the V7 finale and V8 - in V6, she was getting pretty big-for-her-britches in talking about how they’ve come far without Ozpin, and it immediately came back to bite her when their plan caused a fight with the Atlas military that scared the townspeople of Argus and drew a Grimm Leviathan to them. This is that but tenfold - Ruby lied to to Ironwood, seemingly losing faith in authority figures after all the veteran huntsman became broken pedestals to her (Qrow for being a drunk, Oz for being a liar, Lionheart for being a traitor - hell, maybe even her own mother for dying on her) and now, in desperation to fix it, she’s trying to save both Mantle and Atlas even if it jeopardizes the chances of _anyone_ getting out alive by keeping the Winter Maiden away from the Staff of Creation along with splitting Atlas' efforts between her rebellion and Salem's invasion. IMHO, Ren was wrong to act like they shouldn’t try to save people or should just let it go… but at the same time, he’s not wrong to point out they haven’t really had a good track record of things working right under Ruby’s leadership. And I think it's kinda telling that, for all her agitation at Ren seemingly giving up on Mantle, she doesn't actually deny his point about Ruby being a kid in over her head - as if maybe some of her anger is because she knows he's right and that it's partly their fault for just letting Ruby take that responsibility anyway.
Or in short; IMHO, Ren was all but openly saying they should just give up and focus on saving who they can, and I think he was wrong to do that or to use his friends’ personal failures as the fuel for it… but just because he was wrong to do that, it doesn’t mean I think he was wrong to question the inherent hubris in the group treating Ruby like she’d have all the answers or make all the right calls any better than Oz. IMHO, it all comes down to whether you think Ren’s pointing out the flaws in the blind faith they gave Ruby was worth him darn-near forsaking Mantle’s people and weaponizing his friends’ mistakes to make that point - that’s a call each viewer’s gotta make for themselves, I think ^_^;
"After failing miserably to save Oscar..." lol, please, someone fire Oscar's Protection Squad!
There was a scene in the ace ops training montage that kinda calls back to this particular scene.
Ren was fighting the tree-stance girl and he gets laid the fuck out. But he gets back up, looks and sounds visibly frustrated and says ‘again’.
As if he knew how much he needed to work to be called a proper huntsman. He wasn’t happy to just get a license. He wanted to get better for himself.
Ren is probably going to be a straight up villain by the end of the season knowing crwby standards.
Ren it the only person in the show finally said the truth about Ruby be a horrible leader and wtf they do this crow like they make him believe it ironwood fault like come on dude man up
Oh, trust me, Qrow being an idiot is by far not the worst thing that could happen to him. I'm almost 100% sure he's about to get shipped with Robyn (a.k.a. the biggest middle finger they can write to every existing Qrow ship)👍
@@historynerd205 know the writer I won't be shocked they baic ship blake with yang horrible relationship
@@historynerd205 and they say "Winter´s bad for him"
I always love Fanfiction that makes real Huntsman just total monsters. Saw one that had Oobleck have super speed beyond Ruby's, Ozpin was a fucking Demigod, Glynda was Glynda, but it was Port that was the best.
Port's Semblance wasn't something like Super Strength or Ultra Instinst, but returning to the Prime of his Youth.
Dude was one-shotting _Goliaths._
Shit was so fucking good.
Gimme the sauce, good commenter!
What is the sauce?
That sounds awesome.
Dude what is the sauce?!?
You made me realize that the heroes are scaled like Marvel heroes and the villains are scaled like D.C. Heroes and or villains and only lose cause of plot armor.
I'm not sure what you mean by this comparison. Can you explain?
@@matthewreyes5951 Marvel characters and DC characters scale differently from each other. (off the top of your head) If you take a random superhero from Marvel and a Random superhero from DC it's quite evident that a DC character would win most of the time.
When I say 'The villains of RWBY would only lose because of plot armor'.... It's kinda self-explanatory if you look at the previous volumes.
@@vertousofficial3735 Okay, that clears it up. Thank you. I just wasn't that sure what you meant.
@@matthewreyes5951 No problem
I mean RWBY now has a maiden on their side and Silver Eyes which counters Cinder . It just really goes down to Salem and her strong Grimm.
If you asked this question in V5 where the antagonists had an ambush + two maidens...
Marvel characters do vary a bit. Thor and Silver Surfer at their peak can compete well with the upper justice league.
You know this my theory, I think because we have 4 writers we now have a case of "too many cooks in the kitchen."
One of the writers want to make a black and white story and make Ironwood a villain while the other want to make an actual morally grey story arc with Ironwood being a flawed hero alongside the other heroes like Ren. I think this is why everything's feeling inconsistent.
Then why tf does that one writer hold so much power because it seems to be going his way.
@@MIR_ilmenite Coz that guy most likely is either Miles Luna or Kerry Shawcross. Idk.
@@mikedanielespeja6128 both.
Yang: if we done nothing, things would be even worst.
Salem is in atlas!
The thing is, they could probably invest some of their time to train and study in order to gain knowledge. Maybe even try getting in contact with veterans who could help them keep on helping people and since they don't want to give up, why not train? Yang being a fighter should have recognized this by a long shot and told everyone to grow a little more.
She is a fighter who doesn't seem to train anymore. Where the hell is the ''I'll never give up''?
in this scene ren was being possessed by the ghost of monty oum, whom shrieks in pain in his grave due to the writing
Ren just death flagged himself, RIP young buck :(
None of their major victories have been their own doing for a while. Haven was a win only because Raven was going to betray Cinder and Adam's actions motivated the folks in Menagerie to do something. Cordovan actually killed the Leviathan despite having a damaged mech. Even the Breach wasn't a total fiasco because JNPR, CVFY, and Atlas intervened.
They haven't successfully countered Salem's plans without some intervention of one kind or another. There are times where it feels like RWBY doesn't appreciate how dangerous their does could be and that their wins have been dumb luck rather than due to their own skill or planning.
Salem wouldn't even be at Atlas if she hadn't learned that Ozpin was back earlier than expected.
Is it strange that Ruby's plan right now is to get Amity running and even if help doesn't come, tell everyone about Salem? The thing Ironwood was worried causing a worldwide panic when the only issue was telling everyone about her? What will happen if she reveals this, by some chance is believes, and then says Atlas and Mantle are and anger of being wiped out? Won't that cause panic on an even greater scale?
It doesn't help that none of the kingdoms are in any shape to help Atlas anyhow. Mistral suffered from Leo getting huntsmen killed off to where none could be found to help the heroes. Vale is trying to retake Beacon and needs its huntsmen just for that and protecting its own settlements. Nevermind that we have no instance of a town or city successfully being retaken after it fell to the Grimm so they're trying something that seemingly hasn't been done. If we go by the books, Vacuo isn't in shape to send help and some of its citizens might actually cheer the fall of Atlas. Atlas also seems to be the only military around, so any help wouldn't arrive until a kingdom was able to gather enough huntsmen to make a difference, which takes time. So help won't come in time.
That assumes Salem even lets Amity launch when Tyrian has to have told her about it.
So right now, Ruby's plan is to send a message that will cause untold panic, hope that the kingdoms aren't so overwhelmed with Grimm attacks they can send enough help to turn the tide rather than try and fortify their own defenses, and if no help comes, make a last stand and hope that Salem doesn't figure a way to either hack Penny, lure her out into the open, or bring Amity down when she learns there's a Maiden there.
TLDR, Ruby knows help won't come, so she's going to spread worldwide panic and make sure that Atlas and Mantle have no options except a glorious last stand they can't win. How is this better than Ironwood's plan again?
It honestly really sucks that we haven't seen any pro Huntsmen in action. The most we've gotten recently is the AceOps and that's not saying much with how the show handled them. It makes the world feel less lived in.
It honestly does kinda suck.
Be it because of the writing or the lack of budget to commit to such a thing, there aren't enough Huntsmen to go around.
idk what's going on with the RT self awareness but I love it. These really are a bunch of children who plot armored their way through their journey, which would be all fine and dandy if they weren't so self righteous.
cough* cough* Yang-
i remember saying once; "can you imagine if team JNPR would have gone with ironwoods plan because when ruby told them ironwood was gonna abandon mantle, she didn't mention Salem, the un-killable powerful grim controlling witch, was on her way"
huh uh, it seems ren would have
"Where's the apathy grimm when you need them"
Well....who's to say they AREN'T here
Probably watching this bullshit of a character called yang and laughing their asses off.
They were in the intro so I assume they'll make a comeback
I always think that they still a student and they still not ready yet
They don't have the luxury to get ready. Like it or not, they're in this for the long haul.
@@benjaminmcneil574 Not really, the writes just love to ignore logic. Besides Ruby little Grimm powers. They leave in a word with profession huntsmen and huntress. Some with some really OP powers too (detecting lies, Messing with time,etc). However, the shows loves to ignore this until they need them to further their story, then we get a weak excuse for where the characters have been. Also, even if they had go to the veil early ( a experienced and older fighter should be in charge not Ruby (sadly they ruined Qrow ,Ozpin, and mostly every other adult).
Damn bro, why'd you have to go and use the Hunter Association by comparison? Do we really need to bury RWBY further by comparing its Huntsman and their capabilities to one of the best examples of a ranked system of Hunters and their capabilities in all of anime??
Go big or go home. But seriously, RWBY has zero ranking system as well as basically zero examples of veteran hunters. I doubt there is any anime with a worse system
@@BluemoonLacrymosa Qrow and Winter are good examples. They've been nerfed to Oblivion.
Morel alone completely shits on much nen users throughout the show
Ren it just spitting facts, because is the only logical being in RWBY team; i mean the Ren disagreement with the team was the best thing in that volume, cause he was fu**** right.
“Seriously is it your job to push everyone away” like how you have been doing to everyone including your sister (but excluding Blake cause BuMbleBeE) yang you have no right to speak when your character has been the cancer of the series for the past several volumes, and the fact that you are like half the reason that Ironwood snapped and everything went crazy in volume 7. The hypocrisy, I think the only thing I’ve enjoyed from yang was her challenging her sister.
And it’s really sad cause I actually enjoyed yang in volumes 1-3
I strongly agree with your points about there being no other Huntsmen in the show. We've probably seen like 100 students in the first 3 volumes, so I'm willing to be there are at least a few Huntsmen in all of Remnant. So where are they?
It makes no sense that Team RWBY and friends seem to be the only characters in the entire show who care about the Grimm attacking and fighting Salem. But for some reason they are and that screams of terrible world building. At least when the characters were still in school, we could assume lots of Huntsmen were doing cool stuff off screen but now the kids are in the real world and no one else is doing anything. It's extremely frustrating and makes the entire premise of a bunch of kids saving the world by themselves seem illogical.
Even in early volumes the kids that are just background characters dont even seem like Huntsmen
is a new volume out? RWBY has been blowing up on my home page recently
Yes
for the last month yes lol
The "and you cheated your way into Beacon" line is a dead giveaway that the writers won't actually go anywhere with this. Ren, just like Ironwood, will be "wrong", and this whole argument was nothing more than an attempt at creating some kind of conflict between the main cast.
Hmm
Nora questions who she is as an individual without Ren since they've always been together
Ren gets a bunch of focus and good character moments and is a logical character in a show were it's scarce
The death flags are pilling up
"Hey, so we noticed that this character's getting logical and interesting. Should we expand on this?"
"No no, we don't like this and can't continue this, so let's nerf him and make him look bad."
Random RWBY character: *shows signs of promise*
CRWBY: "This is grounds for execution!"
I kinda like the fact that Ren, the character that used to be voiced by Monty, is the only person with logical sense here. It's like Monty slapping RT on what the fuck they are doing to RWBY