The easiest answer is because if he hadn't spared gero, we wouldn't have a woman who has been consistently making it into "top 10 waifu" lists for almost 20 years.
Gero would not have been innocent though, he already abudcted the chidlren, and we are not talking about him committing some future crime, he has already set the androids up to kill people - it's more akin to planting a bomb that will go off in the future. I doubt Bulma would have let the others awaken 17 and 18 if they had killed Gero too, she'd probably have insisted on some way of depowering them or keeping them asleep until they were not a threat.
Goku is not dumb when he faught hit he knew he was going to die so he fired a ki blast in the sky and when it came back it shocked goku on the floor and revived him
They didn't have to go kill him, but yeah finding out where he was and what he was up to, keeping an eye on him -- at the very least, that should have been part of the plan.
And the genius, Bulma, didn't even suggest it. Even after Goku gave her an explanation. Loved the arc, but that was a bad plot point that could've easily been tied up
They knew that the androids would kill them in the future so they could have used roshi's sister (as the poster above suggested) or used the dragon balls to wish for the androids to be good and not to be under the influence of Dr. Gero. They could have resolved it with a wish, their power to stop anyone escaping and the police force to apprehend anyone working for/with Dr. Gero since he was a Red Ribbon member, a terrorist organization at the least.
@@arthursmith1181 As far as the dragon, it can't grant a wish that exceeds its creator, Kami's, power. The androids are way too powerful for it to carry out that wish.
@@TheHylden They had the dragon balls from earth, dragon balls from New Namek and roshi's sister. They could have found out where all the members who were helping Dr. Gero with building the androids and the red ribbon army. ALso, they could act before Gero had any chance of defending himself or even if he had already being turned into an android they would know how powerful he was. Worst case just send him for a far off planet or just the surface of the sun. There, the end of Gero and android 19. As for 17 and 18 just wish to know what would happen, if they would be enemies, I mean, they used a wish to remove a bomb from 18 maybe they could use a wish to remove the "kill Goku at all costs" order.
bruh, that's like, exactly what Future Krillin would do i can already see it. Him chillin with his wife in another time line, suddenly she vanishes. Krillin is like: "OH F#%K, someone time traveled..... TRUNKS.." Krillin travels back to regain his robopµ$$y
@@Zorothex5152 Problem is changing time travel creates a new timeline and won't affect any current ones, so that wouldn't happen. Trunks goes back to kill the androids in his timeline after Cell is killed.
"Friends" that Goku MET (In chronological order): His mother & "nurse" do not count. Neither his father (when he placed him on the pod). -> Brolly WOULD count... if he was canon. Son Gohan (Senior) *adopted* him. He is dead (Goku accidentally killed him). Goku probably met many animals & beasts (dinosaurs) over the years. He fed some of them, he ate some of them. Bulma is the FIRST (canon) humanoid he interacted with that was not part of his family.
@@adolfodef ok that's fine about bulma. But he didn't even know broly so how were they friends??.... and he was too young to really understand his parents so...yeah. that shouldn't even matter, and by default without much thought his true oldest friend is bulma.
And relying on the dragon isn’t smart The dragon can only grant wishes the guardian can fulfill. Sure you can murder a man in cold blood, but that dosent Redo the future or prevent the creations Gero has already made So your killing someone. Because they might do something. Or they already did it, but you have no real idea If that’s cool, why arnt we Murdering politicians in the street? We know they will do some corrupt shit if they haven’t already. Same logic
And that Stupid mentality is why Future Zenou Erased the entire Multiverse of the Future, including killing Future Goku in the afterlife. Good riddence. Now hopefully Present Zenou does the same one of these days.
Still believe it was a bad decision, honor is not a good excuse when your enemy is making killer robots out of kidnaped childrens, and mosters out of your dna to kill everyone. And they did not need to kill gero, just find him and take him to the police (at this point, gero has done lots of things to deserve prison, like creating weapons for a mercernary group that killed inocent people, and kidnaping and experimented on children). Then, they could take the androids to bulma, so she could remove all the "kill goku" of them brainwashing from them. Worse case scenario, they would just not be wake up
except he doesn't know that he just knows there is someone creating androids that haven't done anything wrong its like saying I should go outside and beat up a completely random person that did absolutely nothing wrong because someone from the future said he is gonna turn into the second hitler and as for the prison thing do you really thing the prison would be able to do anything to gero? even if he is still a human he is so intelligent he could easily break out which would solve nothing and no androids=no perfect cell=no ssj2 or anyone else getting really strong=weaker against buu=death
@@k1llsh0t_87 didn'tyou read? hero had done enouight terrible things at that point to deserve prison or death.0 And whu do you think the plot would change forpower level? the power level changes for plot, toriyama made up transformation as he needed
@@chabri2000 I did my point was that if the story didn't change except that specific point they would have died and so what if gero did horrible things none of the zfighters knew what he did so there is no reason for them to murder someone that as far as they knew was perfectly innocent
@@k1llsh0t_87 goku knew about the androids before, he met one in dragonball as a kid. and trunks literally told them what he was doing (and at that point, t he androids had already been kidnaped by gero).
Goku: We shouldn't kill Gero now because he didn't do anything wrong yet. Me: But you could track down Gero, find evidence of him kidnapping 17 and 18, then have him arrested instead of killing him. Or you can track him down and convince him to use his research for good and have him make people into Androids who consented to the procedure.
@@fio_lume They already give him the medicine... so, same thing. If Goku procastinated about taking the medicine that was already with him, something way easier than assembling all dragon balls, no way in hell he would do the "hard way".
asrsst him sure you dont no when geor become in android and vallins liek gero dont go to jail in db huamsn could not arrst king piccolo or tao wha tmake thank geor can be assrest
Imagine if Gero wasn't discarded at the beginning, instead served as a villain that is not necessarily a threat because of how strong he is but because of his resources and intelligence. Then sparing him wouldn't be completely stupid, if at the end of the arc the villain wasn't defeated with a big laser or explosion but instead they convinced him of his evils and turn him good. Wasted potential, really sparing Gero isn't nearly the worst thing in the Cell arc.
I'm more confused on WHY Dr.gero even cared to kill Goku. Dude had Money and resources so I guess he wanted to Conquer the World? And was doing that out of the Red Ribbon army. To technically Gero was going to overthrow Commander Red if Red did get all the Dragonballs? Why would Dr.Gero really even care about wanting to take out Goku? Think about it?
@@greennimbus2519 because he holds Goku accountable for de-railing the red ribbon army’s future of attaining world domination, and in his eyes, evolving humanity. That, and with the destruction of the RRA, he undermined his research and took away a lot of the resources that he had.
Honestly, one of the best “canon additions” Team Four Star did to their Abridged series was make it so Dr. Gero’s son died in an attack Goku made on a Red Ribbon Army base, thus motivating Gero to seek revenge. It also fits in here rather well as a way to show how Goku changed morally speaking. His son’s death would have shown a great consequence to Goku’s original line of thinking of not caring about casualties that he very much stopped having for years by the time Trunks even shows up. He would have had to confront his past deeds and atone for them, eventually culminating in sacrificing himself and leaving his son to finish the job.
This decision had zero influence on Cell coming back in time, he would've done so anyway since in HIS timeline he was already born/created and he couldn't find 17 and 18. It'd only mean the Z fighters would get slaughtered since without the prospect of fighting the Androids they wouldn't be training so hard and Cell at his weakest was still more powerful than 19 and Gero.
@@_Seru_ They wouldn't be completely out of the game. With the androids gone their only real threat is Cell, a quick trip to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber would be enough to deal with him. Heck, just Piccolo fused with Kami they would be enough to mop the floor with Cell and thanks to Goku's instant transmission they could instantly get to Cell before he ever had the chance to hide once Goku woke up. Really it's only a matter of time before Cell dies.
@@spritvio639 Last I checked Cell effortlessly escaped from said Piccolo, absorbed more humans and proceeded to nearly kill him with one attack. You mistake Imperfect Cell with Perfect Cell - Cell in his first form was NOT stupid and he was NOT playing around, if he was strong enough to kill someone, he would. He wouldn't bother looking for strong opponents, if anything he'd proceed to slaughter or absorb everything he could and he'd try to jump to yet another timeline to find 17 and 18 after he found out they were destroyed here.
I'm still waiting for Laughingstock Media to tell me why the Z Fighters have never just used the Dragon Balls to wish the BAD GUY into a GOOD GUY. I'll continue waiting.
I never understood why they couldn’t kill with the dragonballs, Ik you can’t wish to kill people out right but you’re telling me they couldn’t wish for rapid aging, heart failure etc?
I wish they would drop their pride/code or whatever and just start jumping dudes. I know it's for story purposes but can you imagine if a villain came in and killed a couple people then gets jumped by Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, 17, 18, Tien, Yamcha, Roshi, and Chiaotzu, Majin Buu, Puar, OX king, Bulma, ChiChi Videl, Dende, Farmer with a Shot Gun, All pull up and beat his ass.
They dropped the honor code when they learned that #17 and #18 exist, and despite the little resistance they had, the Dragon Team still went all the way to kill them before they are activated. They also tried to kill Cell before he became perfect. It's mainly Vegeta who continued to act that way to fill his own ego.
Great break down and explanation! As to revisionist history, I'd also say that Team Four Star helped push ideas that people now accept as truth such as Goku putting everyone in danger for a good fight. I still love the abridged series by the way.
stupid arc because they could have gathered the dragon balls. they gathered them extra fast for the nameks but all of a sudden they can't grab seven in 3 years.
@Roman Francis which is one of the many reasons why batman is stupid. as far as Z fighters go goku met Tien there but that's it, right? he fought king piccolo there but king piccolo was not a Z fighter. everyone else he met on his adventures for dragon balls. i believe i never watched all of dragon ball but i studied the fuck out of Z
@@secoTheSonicFan majin boo saga had a lot of middle guys, the spaceship was basically a boss rush, the problem was that Dabura was the only strong enough
@@secoTheSonicFan With Babadi's incredible powers, I'm surprised he couldn't do more than just "controlling minds" Like could you imagine if he could pull fighters from other timelines? and turning them into an ultimate dark warrior? Imagine that.
There's also another reason I think a lot of people don't realize is that, goku might have also been trying to make sure trunks was still born. because if they went off and killed them like that there's a good chance Vegeta and Bulma wouldn't have gotten together and made him.
@@UnexpectedDanger yeah stop going with the meme he literally asked Krillin how he had a baby with 18 because he thought she was a robot which means he knows where they come from. He's straight up tails Vegeta that the women has the baby in super. Goku knows where they come from
@@UnexpectedDanger Where in the world did you get that impression from? Goku knows where babies come from. He got Chichi pregnant, didn't he? Did they have him say or do something else stupid for Super? I haven't watched it, but have heard how dumb they've made him for it.
So Krillin was right to spare 18. Both he & Goku trained with Kami so they would have similar outlook of life & not wanting to kill innocents. Its also thanks to Krillin's kindness toward 18 that made her an ally & his wish to help 17 & 18 that made 17 want to help in the ToP.
@@markx322 Yes. I'd say he played a big part. He also saved 18 from elimination, 18 saved 17 from elimination, & 17 won. But everyone played a big part
Thank you for mentioning Kame! Everyone forgets that Goku learned both morals, and was educated by Kame and Popo. His personality at end of Dragon Ball was akin to his personality all throughout Z. People mad at his laid back attitude also forget that he chilled way out after dying the 2nd time-which makes a ton of sense. Goku vs Cell was Goku as a Master (like Roshi) which is why his gi was different too, and his pupil was Gohan. Dying a hero for the 2nd time, when Goku came back, it was as a legend
Gero was the type who worked behind the scenes and was probably never even in the same vicinity as Goku to begin with. We see his lab deep in a forest far from any sort of civilization. Gero decides to simply study Goku and others while designing his androids. Simply put, Gero and Goku just never met each other in-person until the android saga.
And Gero wasent evil He was a genius that believed to much in his work And the Red Ribbon army backed his research He built peaceful models, but they didn’t get funded aswell And Goku began destroying his combat models, so he improved for funding and to beat his challenge He’s no more evil then a player in a MMO trying to be #1 from the bottom. He doesn’t even agree with 17-18’s rampage He wants to reshape the world Not gonna say he’s “good” But far from pure evil More like a story of how devotion and dedication can lead people astray if focused to much
@@donovanulrich348 Goku also killed his son, though that was added in retroactively. 16 was based on his son, who was in the RR army and died when Goku blew up their main base. The irony is if they wished to find him, a more level headed individual like bulma might have been able to figure out Gero was trying to avenge his son, and just wished his son back and defused the situation. _But Goku dum._
@@donovanulrich348 Dude...the first time we see Dr. Gero, he and #19 are going on a killing spree. They weren't even absorbing energy like Cell was, they were just wiping out a city full of people for shits and giggles. No, he's not just some misunderstood genius looking for funding.
@@donovanulrich348 yeah because the android missions are to kill Goku. Look at 16 for example, out side of wanting to kill Goku, he loves the nature and the planet
@@donovanulrich348 He was obsessed with revenge enough, due to Goku destroying the Red Ribbon Army, that he spent decades nonstop building Robots with the intent purpose of Killing Goku. Even though, he was perfectly well aware of the fact that Goku saved the planet. Also, after gaining a android's body, the first thing he does is slaughter a city of civilians- what bullshit are you talking about? Gero is civilian murdering Revenge obsessed ( goku didn't even do anything bad to him, just took out an army intent on world domination) lunatic. He's basically a generic evil doer from a comic book.
Interesting note, his morality works synergistically with his love of fighting, because his frequent offers of mercy, and the threats that mercy brings with it, are what help keep him going to get stronger.
I've been a dbz fan for decades and i've never realised both Gero and 16's heads were decapetated then stomped. I knew both individually happened but I never connected the 2 until this vid, what a great video. you get a like for that.
@@BonesDMS4life it was from before then, it mentions he was shot and killed by enemy fire. Unless Dragon Ball took a really dark turn that I don't remember with Goku channeling his inner Anton Chigurh asking Gero's son to pick heads or tails lol.
Why Goku was right to Spare Majin Buu Because we wouldn’t have Super Buu then Kid Buu and if we didn’t have Kid Buu we wouldn’t have Uub give energy to help Goku against Moro
Might want to get rid of the spoilers in this comment or say there are spoilers. Some people haven't read the Manga yet and genuinely care about spoilers :)
Dr. Gero as the mastermind behind the Red Ribbon army always felt like a retcon to me. Because he was never even mentioned once in the original Dragon Ball series. Also Goku totally fought Frieza because he wanted a good fight. His motivations were purely selfish.
He didn't fight Frieza because had he not he would have kill his bestfriends and son? At that point no you could say he really wanted to fight him when he turned super saiyan and wished everybody on namek away except him and frieza but even then he got tired of fighting frieza
@@rebal180 yes goku clearly wanted to fight him but when he fought him he was doing it to protect his friends but the whole reason goku even went to namek was because they were on danger
@@nnightkingj Well no Goku went as back up to bring their other friends back but, he didn't find out they were in trouble until he ran into the Ginyu Force. King Kai even warned him to stay away from Frieza which even if Frieza hadn't found Vegeta and the others that wasn't going to happen. Goku would've tracked Frieza down after he would order everyone to leave him on Namek because that's who he is.
@@rebal180 I'm pretty sure master roshi came up to him while he was still in the hospital and said vegeta and a whole bunch of other people were on namek much before the ginyu forces arrival
Also to consider, if they had just gone and killed Gero then they would have been woefully ill-prepared for the Buu saga. Timeline as is; -Trunks shows up to warn Goku -3 Years of goal oriented training to defeat the androids. -The Androids overwhelm the fighters so there is intense training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, plus the fusion of Kami and Piccolo. -Trunks becomes strong enough to defeat HIS androids/cell -Gohan attains SSj -Dende is brought to earth as the new guardian thus decoupling the use of dragon balls with the life of one of the fighters. -Cell Games, Goku dies, Gohan becomes SSj2 -Dead Goku does 7 years of training in otherworld and attains SSj 2 and 3 -Vegeta does 7 years of goal oriented training of hoping to attain SSj2 and surpass Gohan If they just went off to kill Gero then by the time Buu Saga occurs then Future Trunks gets merced in his own timeline either by his Androids or Cell, the fighters get 10 years of just whatever training they were doing, there are probably not any SSj2 and they might not know it exists, and if Piccolo dies in this saga there are no dragon balls.
Goku is really not some western Super Hero ideal like how you are seeing him. I think most American fans really missed out on a dominant trait of Goku: childish innocence. It's hard to explain, but he is not thinking in a "conventional" way, like "how to solve issues as efficiently as possible", but he doesn't think like this because he is just dumb and doesn't take the risk factors into consideration, especially when others are in danger. The reason for these decisions is different: He didn't kill Gero simply for the same reason he didn't train more before the Cell tournament, or why he gave Cell the beans. He is just very confident in his or his close ones' abilities, and unlike Vegeta or others, he is not blinded by pride or a desire for glory that would make him misjudge these abilities. He has a very "pure" way of seeing everything, and he could tell without any delusions what he or Gohan was capable of if they tried. The reason he is not killing villains is simply because it is not necessary, because even if they would to return, he is confident in being able to get stronger and stop them, and that's also why you misinterpreted what that Super page talked about. It didn't meant that goku doesn't care about consequences and Only cares about the excitement of fighting, he just explained why he doesn't take the easy and sure way of getting rid of these villains by just killing them: because he can already deal with them in his own way, which is both more exciting for him and also gives the villains a second chance to turn good.
I disagree with Gero being innocent because he hasn't done anything wrong yet. For example if you plan to to harm or murder and build a weapon to do so the police will arrest you in the USA and you'll be a terrorist with conspiracy to commit murder... I'd say the act of planning to and building the tools do it is almost just as bad acually doing it.
@Roman Francis this may be a little bit of a stretch, but I always interpreted Cell going into the water and dodging the light grenade as a way of showing that he couldn’t take it head on
@@rdeal8912 yeah but still, look at it this way, when Krillin used the destructo disk on Freeza, it cut his tail clean off. But no one is going to make the argument that Krillin is stronger than Freeza. Some attacks are just inherently strong no matter what the user’s power level is.
In DBZ logic sparing everyone is a good idea. Mass murderers magically become good people just from Goku being nice. But it doesn't work like that in real life. Really hard criminals usually have mental illnesses that make them permanently evil.
maybe you should reword that one better my guy. "mental illness that makes them evil" sounds a bit bad, like if they are inflicted with a mental illness to stop that from causing violence in other people they should at least be treated
@@dominusangelo4659 nope it’s just because the author pulled it out of his ass since his editor didn’t like the original Annedroids, not sure there’s an actual reason in the lore
Great video. You provided great points for Goku's morality that people tend to ignore. Though super is consistent with Goku's morality and him sparing his enemies in both the anime and manga which was also the discussion that Goku and Merus had.
7:55 No one ever said Goku had to murder Gero. They could've just destroyed his research and had Bulma use her influence to get him arrested for both having ties to the Red Ribbon Army, and planning to build killer robots. As for 17 and 18, if they were still around and in the process of being made into androids, they could've been reprogrammed by Bulma and her father. Lastly, if Goku and pals were smart, they'd do some scouting before attacking Gero's lab, either through the Dragon Balls, or by having Fortuneteller Baba spy on him. By doing that, they'd know exactly what they were up against, and would be able to formulate a proper plan of action.
With all of this being said, it still wouldn't have helped the future timeline anyway. We see evidence of that after the defeat of Cell and Trucks goes back to his time where Cell is still in his base form. Granted due to the battle in the past, Trunks got much stronger as a result and was able to defeat the Androids after his return. If they'd decided Bulma's plan was viable to execute, Trunks would never have been able to improve his strength to take them on and bring peace to his time in the end. Plus in his travels he learned of Cells existence and knew he needed the extra boots to be able to take him on. Ergo; they off Gero early = Future is screwed even more, and with Piccolo having been killed (future timeline) Trunks wouldn't have the Dragonballs as an aid to wish everyone back that had perished. So yes, Goku making this decision (regardless of plot device setup) was the best one to make in order to preserve a safer timeline for both parties involved.
So Basically, Goku isn't a hero, He isn't a guy who wants to have a good fight, He's a Martial Artist with Good Morale and Honor. To Have Honor doesn't mean to be Prideful. To have honor means to know when your opponent is beat, to be able to show mercy regardless of what your enemy has done, the ability to humble yourside, and cast your pride aside. Pride is infact, the true source of shame, however, that doesn't mean have no pride at all but being too prideful is what causes you to bring nothing but shame upon yourself. Vegeta being a prime example of that. He had too much pride, and it wasn't until the end of Buu Saga where he finally started to let go alot of it. He kept his pride but reformed it, rather than it being about strength, it was more about being a better martial artist, and his family. Case 1 of Goku being Honorable: He was willing to let the Ginyu Force live and he had hoped they'd let go their evil ways. (Which would never happen because unlike most, the Ginyu Force were truly evil like Frieza. That's why they were Frieza's most trusted fighting force. They had outstanding loyalty but were just as wicked as the Frost Demon.) Case 2: He gave Frieza energy, despite what he had done. He still showed mercy, there was no dirty tricks, there was no bullshitting. He gave Frieza the energy to escape and live Now being Honorable doesn't mean "oH Don'T tHrOW DIRT iN ThEIR eYes" Because technically speaking, being in a real life or death battle, being resourceful, such as throwing dirt to blind your opponent is a smart move. Goku didn't want to do that however, he wanted to be able to beat his opponents on his own terms. Which is apart of what he thinks a fighter should be. Especially if you're a swordsman, use your surroundings to your advantage. However, if you're dueling someone, not for life or death, that's different. Using tricks such as throwing dirt in a duel, would be considered unhonorable, because you're simply dueling, which is meant to show your skills as a fighter without such tricks. Just wanna point out though, if the androids never came that doesn't mean they'd be unprepared for Majin Buu. Babadi only came to Earth, because of the incredible power caused by Cell and Gohan's Kamehameha wave clash. He wanted that power to revive Buu.
What if Goku saved Gero's Head? Even if it would be quite a stretch given the situation, I think Gero could become quite handy in the upcoming arcs. Not voluntarily though, but Goku has turned bigger Baddies before.
if doctor Gero became a ally after his defeat the humans could have recieve some power ups. ofcourse they need to accept the offer. he could have work together with the father of bulma or bulma herself.
@@meek7765 cause 17 was the last one standing him and feizea where holding him off and if he wasn't there jiren would have beaten frizea then goku or jiren would have knocked everyone off the stage with the blast he did when andriod 17 used the shield to protect goku and vegeta that's how
Android geroh has his brain transplanted in a robot. I would call him an android but most people would not with the modern day definition. Android 17 and 18 I would call cyborgs. Krillin is so potent he got his sex robot pregnant. If you add robot bionics to a human there a cyborg. If you add human organs to a robot it's a android
I was always wondering about where the hell Dr. Gero was because I didn’t remember any high ranking Red Ribbon members mention his name or even Eighter mention him
"After Vomi and Gero married, they had a son named Gevo who became the model for Android 16. However, the mother and son died at some point which pushed Gero to recreate his family as androids." Gero was a complex villain with not that much screen time. his screen time translated into the complexities of all the androids.
other option: go to dr gero - if he is still human, talk him out of scene. Maybe use Dragon balls to give his son back (even with 1-year time to ressurect, they can use option like "transfer Gero's son soul into #16 body") and: TAKE BULMA TO MAKE NEW PROGRAM TO ANDROIDS
but what if he didn't, but it made things worse. Let's say Gero starts releasing all the bots as a bid for time. As Goku and the party fight them Gero rushes to his underground lab... Cell is the only thing that can help now but it's just starting. It will be decades. Hearing 13 bite it, he starts cranking things up to 11, Cell convolves in pain as it's flesh grows faster than its skeletal system. "No, it still needs more time" He cries as Krillin makes it down first and blasts him right into the tank holding cell. The lab starts it's self destruct and as everyone makes it out, Gero reaches out with one hand, Cell as a gel reaches out and covers his hand. Symbiot cell awakens.
that's what i say, people who said super has shitty power scaling must have not watch dragon ball closely to see that it has been like this since the beginning
Yeah I always thought that was ridiculous. People go to super or the buu saga to say super saiyan got devalued there but it got devalued as soon as androids could crush ss
@@i-10haula88 ik how does a human being I mean the old man 👴 is a genius but at the same time being able to create and turn himself into a jinzo ningen plus turning two teenage orphans into one of the universe strongest is just.... wow u would think that Frieza with his army of different species there scientists couldn’t do the same for him or king 👑 cold smh
People tend to forget that Goku and the Z warriors aren't superheroes they aren't obligated to save/fight anyone so even if they have selfish motives they have more power than any of us so they can do as they like.
You know, I really like hearing these types of theories that have pretty strong logic behind them and facts that take into account characters past motivations and who they are now to come up with sound reason to explain certain actions that seem dumb or hypocritical to the story/character at first glance. You know what I hate? When some overly spiteful critic comes in and then says "Your not aloud to say s-it the show/manga isn't saying. However, this show/manga IS BAD because it is saying what I'AM saying. Even though my theory has nearly no facts and is mostly 'shoulda, woulda, coulda' head cannon theory."
Well, the thing that made the androids diffrent from the future ones, or so I like to think, is the training. Because Gero had to focuse more on powering up the androids, he couldn't get more brainwashing in, in order to make them more evil. And Maybe, just maybe, if they met Gero Earlier, and just tried to, talk, of all things, maybe something better could have came from it. But we'll never know.
Look what it lead to when Goku let Dr. Gero go?, Gero created the Androids which devastated Trunks’ Future which lead to time travel which is a taboo and made Zamasu ruined Trunks’ Future again, all this is Goku’s fault
He didn't let him go. He never met him or knew he existed until the Android Saga. The old dub got that wrong. However, he and the other Z Warriors ae guilty of not listening to Bulma and stopping him 3 years earlier.
When you say "despite what Dragon Ball Super would have you believe" and "revisionist history", I don't think you take into account that this isn't something that originated in Dragon Ball Super. First of all, not even DBS implies that Goku's morality is just fighting strong opponents since that's not morality. But fighting strong opponents is a driving factor for his character. And when it comes to honor, he didn't like the Super Saiyan God transformation originally, because he didn't earn it himself. But it's clear that he's put fighting before caring for others multiple times. That's not necessarily in a malicious way. But during the Cell Games, Goku forfeited (which isn't a problem itself), then he sent his son in to fight (yeah, he saw the power that Gohan had inside, but Gohan was ignorant to this fact), and that could be excusable if it weren't for the fact that Goku also gave Cell a Senzu Bean before sending Gohan in to fight. You could argue that that's Goku being honorable. But when the fate of a planet is on the line, there's no place for that kind of honor. As for Doctor Gero, his existence is a retcon. Doctor Gero wasn't in Dragon Ball. There wouldn't even be any differences until you come to the DBZ Android Saga. The fact is that Goku didn't spare Gero's life, Goku just never came across Gero. However, without Gero being in DBZ, there would be no androids 17 and 18 in the Future timeline, so Trunks would never have come back in time to warn the Z Fighters of Goku's heart virus, and therefore Goku would die without an option to be wished back with the Dragonballs. Although if they caught it in time, could they use the Dragonballs to wish for the heart virus to go away?
If they killed Gero and the Androids without any issues, it'd mean they'd be dead soon afterwards - Cell would've come to this timeline anyway and while he wouldn't be able to absorb the Androids due to them being destroyed, I bet he'd be pretty pissed and considering at his weakest he was still much stronger than Gero and 19, he'd proceed to slaughter everything in his way with Goku and the rest being too weak to stop him since they'd have no reason to train hard with 17 and 18 gone.
There would actually also be two Cells running around as they wouldn't even know about the cell in Dr. Gero's basement. So unless the Current cell consumes the embryo cell, there would be two Cells roaming around 17 years later due to the fuck you just described.
I don't think so. Cell was strong, sure, but at his "weakest" he was very easily beaten by Piccolo (fused with Kami), and promptly ran away upon Trunks' arrival on the battlefield. He became stronger later, but only because the androids were still a threat searching for Goku, thus the main characters' efforts were focused on something else, giving him time to absorb more cities. In my opinion, what was likely to happen, if the Androids were killed was that future Cell would eventually come, as he did, and would most likely be slaughtered by the Z-Warriors, most likely Piccolo, Trunks and Vegeta, once people realized a lot of cities were suddenly disappearing.
@@victorabreu13 Sure, ignore the fact that they WERE searching for Cell but were unable to find him because he was moving on the ground and hiding his ki. He wasn't as stupid as you believe, quite contrary. Piccolo in particular would have no reason to even consider fusing with Kami due to 17 and 18 not being a threat, he'd first have to meet Cell and - guess what - even Cell at his weakest would be too much for this Piccolo. And no, he wouldn't let his enemies go. Imperfect Cell wasn't looking for a good fight, he'd kill everything in his way if he was able to. And if he wasn't, he'd simply escape and get stronger by absorbing more humans.
@@anthonyclark9591 Yeah, but the Present Cell would probably try to find some way to go to the past since I bet he'd find out pretty soon that 17 and 18 are dead. In fact it'd be a similar situation to the one from Cell's time line.
@@_Seru_ You are right. But even in this scenario, Kami only fused with Piccolo BECAUSE he was afraid of a bigger threat, namely Cell, so why would that change? Now, even if it did change, and they didn't fuse, how would it be possible for Cell become so strong that even the eventual Hyperbolic Time Chamber training would not be enough to kill him, even when taking in consideration that he'll never be perfect due to a lack of Androids 17 and 18? We're also talking about an universe where Goku has access to the antidote for his heart virus, so he would be alive.
The easiest answer is because if he hadn't spared gero, we wouldn't have a woman who has been consistently making it into "top 10 waifu" lists for almost 20 years.
One of the reason why I love blondes lol
@CollabX oh ya
@CollabX him, i wouldn't miss.
@@clericofchaos1
Come bro SSJ2 Gohan was the Goat
@@CJ-qv4sd honestly, if the only new character introduced after frieza was android 18...i'd be ok with that.
"Like father, like son" is the best line in the whole vid
This feels like a Mass Effect theory video
Random but if 19 didn't die and met andriod 16, 17 and 18 how you do you think their reaction would be?
Oh. I feel bad now.
And you would never see vegeta become a super saiyan
Goku was right about villains turning good, almost all of them he knew turned good
Gero would not have been innocent though, he already abudcted the chidlren, and we are not talking about him committing some future crime, he has already set the androids up to kill people - it's more akin to planting a bomb that will go off in the future.
I doubt Bulma would have let the others awaken 17 and 18 if they had killed Gero too, she'd probably have insisted on some way of depowering them or keeping them asleep until they were not a threat.
Goku is not dumb when he faught hit he knew he was going to die so he fired a ki blast in the sky and when it came back it shocked goku on the floor and revived him
They didn't have to go kill him, but yeah finding out where he was and what he was up to, keeping an eye on him -- at the very least, that should have been part of the plan.
And the genius, Bulma, didn't even suggest it. Even after Goku gave her an explanation. Loved the arc, but that was a bad plot point that could've easily been tied up
I agree with you, not finding their location was very stupid. They could have used Roshi's sister to safely watch Gero.
They knew that the androids would kill them in the future so they could have used roshi's sister (as the poster above suggested) or used the dragon balls to wish for the androids to be good and not to be under the influence of Dr. Gero.
They could have resolved it with a wish, their power to stop anyone escaping and the police force to apprehend anyone working for/with Dr. Gero since he was a Red Ribbon member, a terrorist organization at the least.
@@arthursmith1181 As far as the dragon, it can't grant a wish that exceeds its creator, Kami's, power. The androids are way too powerful for it to carry out that wish.
@@TheHylden They had the dragon balls from earth, dragon balls from New Namek and roshi's sister.
They could have found out where all the members who were helping Dr. Gero with building the androids and the red ribbon army.
ALso, they could act before Gero had any chance of defending himself or even if he had already being turned into an android they would know how powerful he was. Worst case just send him for a far off planet or just the surface of the sun. There, the end of Gero and android 19.
As for 17 and 18 just wish to know what would happen, if they would be enemies, I mean, they used a wish to remove a bomb from 18 maybe they could use a wish to remove the "kill Goku at all costs" order.
Krillin: We can't prevent the androids!
Trunks: why the hell not?
Krillin: I'll die single if we do!
dang
@@blackice7050 It’s either win it all or win nothing
Go big or go home
There ain’t nobody better than 18
bruh, that's like,
exactly what Future Krillin would do
i can already see it.
Him chillin with his wife in another time line, suddenly she vanishes.
Krillin is like: "OH F#%K, someone time traveled..... TRUNKS.."
Krillin travels back to regain his robopµ$$y
@@Zorothex5152 Problem is changing time travel creates a new timeline and won't affect any current ones, so that wouldn't happen. Trunks goes back to kill the androids in his timeline after Cell is killed.
He already died single twice.
"Voice of Goku's oldest friend..."
I don't think Bulma would appreciate that description.
FIRST human friend (his family does not count, either biological or adopted).
Why not? Bulma is his first friend. The first person he met. Right?
@@adolfodef but all his friends are apart of his family right?
"Friends" that Goku MET (In chronological order):
His mother & "nurse" do not count. Neither his father (when he placed him on the pod).
-> Brolly WOULD count... if he was canon.
Son Gohan (Senior) *adopted* him. He is dead (Goku accidentally killed him).
Goku probably met many animals & beasts (dinosaurs) over the years. He fed some of them, he ate some of them.
Bulma is the FIRST (canon) humanoid he interacted with that was not part of his family.
@@adolfodef ok that's fine about bulma. But he didn't even know broly so how were they friends??.... and he was too young to really understand his parents so...yeah. that shouldn't even matter, and by default without much thought his true oldest friend is bulma.
This was one of those DBZ things that I forgot about
And relying on the dragon isn’t smart
The dragon can only grant wishes the guardian can fulfill.
Sure you can murder a man in cold blood, but that dosent Redo the future or prevent the creations Gero has already made
So your killing someone. Because they might do something. Or they already did it, but you have no real idea
If that’s cool, why arnt we Murdering politicians in the street? We know they will do some corrupt shit if they haven’t already. Same logic
Everyone forgot about that moment
@@donovanulrich348 Who is saying we shouldnt?!? We should.
Boooooooioo boyyyyyy
Pre Android Gero looks like Dr. Wily from Megaman
I was just about to say that lol.
Who would build machines
To crush Society
Hmmmmmmmmm
“There are. No accidents”
Megaman came out in 1987, the android saga started publication in 1992. There is plenty of time for overlap.
Maybe they are both the same person? Or an ironically coincidence or one is inspired by the other?
Lol I thought the same thing.
Like father, like son. Damn, I just realized both Gero and 16 had their heads crushed. Both ironically by his creations.
wow, that's actually crazy! I can't believe I never noticed and never heard anyone mentioned this before!
My mind is blown!!
Oh damn, that is true
@@LoveyoDance Just like gero's and 16's head.
Must've been there "17" part of Cell
Wiped this comment so the replies are out of context
In Dubbed DBZ he was goofy, but in DBS he is straight retarded.. it’s hard to watch sometimes
@@secoTheSonicFan well yeah. DBS finally shows that Goku just loves to fight. Why else would he bait his friends to fight a survival T.O.P?
@@JC-zj2is he was smarter in the early episodes of DB, than he is in DBS
@@abdullahifarah5878 id say its what will happen when you die for 7 years and suddenly came back to life but you didnt want to be revived
@@JC-zj2is great comparison.
Goku is a fighter before a survivor. He'd rather die fighting than live beating on weaker opponents
And doom the rest of humanity
@@mr.protagonist5639 Lets just say Frieza isnt the only reason the Saiyan race is on the brink of extinction...
And that Stupid mentality is why Future Zenou Erased the entire Multiverse of the Future, including killing Future Goku in the afterlife. Good riddence. Now hopefully Present Zenou does the same one of these days.
@@DJYC21215 who pissed in your cereal
@@SkyStrife2690 It was Goku.
Still believe it was a bad decision, honor is not a good excuse when your enemy is making killer robots out of kidnaped childrens, and mosters out of your dna to kill everyone.
And they did not need to kill gero, just find him and take him to the police (at this point, gero has done lots of things to deserve prison, like creating weapons for a mercernary group that killed inocent people, and kidnaping and experimented on children).
Then, they could take the androids to bulma, so she could remove all the "kill goku" of them brainwashing from them. Worse case scenario, they would just not be wake up
except he doesn't know that he just knows there is someone creating androids that haven't done anything wrong its like saying I should go outside and beat up a completely random person that did absolutely nothing wrong because someone from the future said he is gonna turn into the second hitler and as for the prison thing do you really thing the prison would be able to do anything to gero? even if he is still a human he is so intelligent he could easily break out which would solve nothing and no androids=no perfect cell=no ssj2 or anyone else getting really strong=weaker against buu=death
@@k1llsh0t_87 didn'tyou read? hero had done enouight terrible things at that point to deserve prison or death.0
And whu do you think the plot would change forpower level? the power level changes for plot, toriyama made up transformation as he needed
@@chabri2000 I did my point was that if the story didn't change except that specific point they would have died and so what if gero did horrible things none of the zfighters knew what he did so there is no reason for them to murder someone that as far as they knew was perfectly innocent
@@k1llsh0t_87 goku knew about the androids before, he met one in dragonball as a kid. and trunks literally told them what he was doing (and at that point, t he androids had already been kidnaped by gero).
You could argue that Earth wouldn't have enough energy to release buy if the android s were taken out early
Goku: We shouldn't kill Gero now because he didn't do anything wrong yet.
Me: But you could track down Gero, find evidence of him kidnapping 17 and 18, then have him arrested instead of killing him. Or you can track him down and convince him to use his research for good and have him make people into Androids who consented to the procedure.
They probably still wanted to fight
What was reaaaally dumb was not taking his meds
@@kyubeycoobie3568 "Oh great wish dragon, cure my heart disease from which i would die in the future"
@@fio_lume They already give him the medicine... so, same thing.
If Goku procastinated about taking the medicine that was already with him, something way easier than assembling all dragon balls, no way in hell he would do the "hard way".
asrsst him sure you dont no when geor become in android and vallins liek gero dont go to jail in db huamsn could not arrst king piccolo or tao wha tmake thank geor can be assrest
Imagine if Gero wasn't discarded at the beginning, instead served as a villain that is not necessarily a threat because of how strong he is but because of his resources and intelligence. Then sparing him wouldn't be completely stupid, if at the end of the arc the villain wasn't defeated with a big laser or explosion but instead they convinced him of his evils and turn him good. Wasted potential, really sparing Gero isn't nearly the worst thing in the Cell arc.
Maybe some detective work or something but naaaahhhhhhhh
I'm more confused on WHY Dr.gero even cared to kill Goku. Dude had Money and resources so I guess he wanted to Conquer the World? And was doing that out of the Red Ribbon army. To technically Gero was going to overthrow Commander Red if Red did get all the Dragonballs? Why would Dr.Gero really even care about wanting to take out Goku? Think about it?
@@greennimbus2519 because he holds Goku accountable for de-railing the red ribbon army’s future of attaining world domination, and in his eyes, evolving humanity. That, and with the destruction of the RRA, he undermined his research and took away a lot of the resources that he had.
And the death of his son.
Honestly, one of the best “canon additions” Team Four Star did to their Abridged series was make it so Dr. Gero’s son died in an attack Goku made on a Red Ribbon Army base, thus motivating Gero to seek revenge. It also fits in here rather well as a way to show how Goku changed morally speaking. His son’s death would have shown a great consequence to Goku’s original line of thinking of not caring about casualties that he very much stopped having for years by the time Trunks even shows up. He would have had to confront his past deeds and atone for them, eventually culminating in sacrificing himself and leaving his son to finish the job.
No Cell- no warning- no threats to get stronger and combat- No Super Saiyan 2
That’s very true
This decision had zero influence on Cell coming back in time, he would've done so anyway since in HIS timeline he was already born/created and he couldn't find 17 and 18. It'd only mean the Z fighters would get slaughtered since without the prospect of fighting the Androids they wouldn't be training so hard and Cell at his weakest was still more powerful than 19 and Gero.
@@_Seru_ They wouldn't be completely out of the game. With the androids gone their only real threat is Cell, a quick trip to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber would be enough to deal with him. Heck, just Piccolo fused with Kami they would be enough to mop the floor with Cell and thanks to Goku's instant transmission they could instantly get to Cell before he ever had the chance to hide once Goku woke up. Really it's only a matter of time before Cell dies.
@Sun Wu-Entai 90 cell can’t become strong enough for ss2 to come to light even with cities because they would find him by then
@@spritvio639 Last I checked Cell effortlessly escaped from said Piccolo, absorbed more humans and proceeded to nearly kill him with one attack. You mistake Imperfect Cell with Perfect Cell - Cell in his first form was NOT stupid and he was NOT playing around, if he was strong enough to kill someone, he would. He wouldn't bother looking for strong opponents, if anything he'd proceed to slaughter or absorb everything he could and he'd try to jump to yet another timeline to find 17 and 18 after he found out they were destroyed here.
I'm still waiting for Laughingstock Media to tell me why the Z Fighters have never just used the Dragon Balls to wish the BAD GUY into a GOOD GUY. I'll continue waiting.
The iq levels for this move surpasses anything possible in DB
I never understood why they couldn’t kill with the dragonballs, Ik you can’t wish to kill people out right but you’re telling me they couldn’t wish for rapid aging, heart failure etc?
@@ziongamer6905 exactly but they probably won't but they literally could just wish them to be good.
@@mainelettuce9040 to be fair, I don’t think heart failure would’ve worked in many of them.
@@RambunctiousReptilian Mate, heart failure killed SSJ GOKU. I think that alone is killing 90% of the villains lol
that's bad logic. You can't use unknowable future events to reasonably determine if someone made the right decision in the moment.
The beginning of this video took me back to the 90's for a brief moment
Goku: We can't prevent the Androids existence.
Everyone: Why???
Goku: My homie needs to get laid
Goku is a real one 😎
Krillen: 😳
I wish they would drop their pride/code or whatever and just start jumping dudes.
I know it's for story purposes but can you imagine if a villain came in and killed a couple people then gets jumped by Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, 17, 18, Tien, Yamcha, Roshi, and Chiaotzu, Majin Buu, Puar, OX king, Bulma, ChiChi Videl, Dende, Farmer with a Shot Gun, All pull up and beat his ass.
Lmaoooo
I dont think that'll be fun or entertaining to watch tho Akira wouldn't do that
They used fusion against buu and jumped jiren.
They dropped the honor code when they learned that #17 and #18 exist, and despite the little resistance they had, the Dragon Team still went all the way to kill them before they are activated. They also tried to kill Cell before he became perfect. It's mainly Vegeta who continued to act that way to fill his own ego.
Spirits 2024 If you ask me that sounds like a mob.
They didn't have to kill him, they could've just stopped him from awaking the Androids.
Great break down and explanation! As to revisionist history, I'd also say that Team Four Star helped push ideas that people now accept as truth such as Goku putting everyone in danger for a good fight. I still love the abridged series by the way.
That shit is trash
Which is why I wonder why no one calls TeamFourStar out on that.
Their jokes that became mainstream on DB community, personally didn't see the appeal of it. I'm just the minority though
@@HerotsLament how so?
Proven in tOp
This honestly boils down to the question of "If you had a time machine to kill someone before they did a horrible action,is it the right thing to do?"
Before you counter this belongs to the androids themselves while Dr. Gero was a wildcard according to Goku's view
Depends did the person actually commit the act or was he BRANDED as the culprit?
stupid arc because they could have gathered the dragon balls. they gathered them extra fast for the nameks but all of a sudden they can't grab seven in 3 years.
@Roman Francis are the Z fighters there to protect the earth or get their rocks off amid combat ? just a terrible premise
@Roman Francis which is one of the many reasons why batman is stupid. as far as Z fighters go goku met Tien there but that's it, right? he fought king piccolo there but king piccolo was not a Z fighter. everyone else he met on his adventures for dragon balls. i believe i never watched all of dragon ball but i studied the fuck out of Z
Yk I'm wondering how much the Android arc would change if toriyama kept 19 and 20 as the main antagonists and not The first fodder enemies
@@secoTheSonicFan The moro arc was like that. He had henchman that they faced in addition to Moro
@@secoTheSonicFan majin boo saga had a lot of middle guys, the spaceship was basically a boss rush, the problem was that Dabura was the only strong enough
he would probably absorb Vegeta's power and reach Goku's level
@@secoTheSonicFan With Babadi's incredible powers, I'm surprised he couldn't do more than just "controlling minds"
Like could you imagine if he could pull fighters from other timelines? and turning them into an ultimate dark warrior? Imagine that.
@@gwell2118 something bleach did right
There's also another reason I think a lot of people don't realize is that, goku might have also been trying to make sure trunks was still born. because if they went off and killed them like that there's a good chance Vegeta and Bulma wouldn't have gotten together and made him.
The joker himself wanted trunks to be born?
There's a 0% chance goku knows where babies come from
@@UnexpectedDanger yeah stop going with the meme he literally asked Krillin how he had a baby with 18 because he thought she was a robot which means he knows where they come from. He's straight up tails Vegeta that the women has the baby in super. Goku knows where they come from
Makes sense. Vegeta's training and Bulma hanging around him more and more led to their one-night stand.
@@UnexpectedDanger Where in the world did you get that impression from? Goku knows where babies come from. He got Chichi pregnant, didn't he? Did they have him say or do something else stupid for Super? I haven't watched it, but have heard how dumb they've made him for it.
So Krillin was right to spare 18. Both he & Goku trained with Kami so they would have similar outlook of life & not wanting to kill innocents.
Its also thanks to Krillin's kindness toward 18 that made her an ally & his wish to help 17 & 18 that made 17 want to help in the ToP.
So what you are saying is
Krillin is the real reason they won the ToP
@@markx322 Yes. I'd say he played a big part.
He also saved 18 from elimination, 18 saved 17 from elimination, & 17 won. But everyone played a big part
absurd. if Krillin killed 18, the timeline would shift so much that the ToP wouldnt exist at all, nor would most of Super.
You see... Krillin saved the whole damn Franchise lol
So krillin parents saved the multiverse
Thank you for mentioning Kame! Everyone forgets that Goku learned both morals, and was educated by Kame and Popo. His personality at end of Dragon Ball was akin to his personality all throughout Z.
People mad at his laid back attitude also forget that he chilled way out after dying the 2nd time-which makes a ton of sense. Goku vs Cell was Goku as a Master (like Roshi) which is why his gi was different too, and his pupil was Gohan. Dying a hero for the 2nd time, when Goku came back, it was as a legend
Gero was the type who worked behind the scenes and was probably never even in the same vicinity as Goku to begin with. We see his lab deep in a forest far from any sort of civilization. Gero decides to simply study Goku and others while designing his androids. Simply put, Gero and Goku just never met each other in-person until the android saga.
And Gero wasent evil
He was a genius that believed to much in his work
And the Red Ribbon army backed his research
He built peaceful models, but they didn’t get funded aswell
And Goku began destroying his combat models, so he improved for funding and to beat his challenge
He’s no more evil then a player in a MMO trying to be #1 from the bottom. He doesn’t even agree with 17-18’s rampage
He wants to reshape the world
Not gonna say he’s “good”
But far from pure evil
More like a story of how devotion and dedication can lead people astray if focused to much
@@donovanulrich348 Goku also killed his son, though that was added in retroactively. 16 was based on his son, who was in the RR army and died when Goku blew up their main base. The irony is if they wished to find him, a more level headed individual like bulma might have been able to figure out Gero was trying to avenge his son, and just wished his son back and defused the situation. _But Goku dum._
@@donovanulrich348 Dude...the first time we see Dr. Gero, he and #19 are going on a killing spree. They weren't even absorbing energy like Cell was, they were just wiping out a city full of people for shits and giggles. No, he's not just some misunderstood genius looking for funding.
@@donovanulrich348 yeah because the android missions are to kill Goku. Look at 16 for example, out side of wanting to kill Goku, he loves the nature and the planet
@@donovanulrich348 He was obsessed with revenge enough, due to Goku destroying the Red Ribbon Army, that he spent decades nonstop building Robots with the intent purpose of Killing Goku. Even though, he was perfectly well aware of the fact that Goku saved the planet. Also, after gaining a android's body, the first thing he does is slaughter a city of civilians- what bullshit are you talking about? Gero is civilian murdering Revenge obsessed ( goku didn't even do anything bad to him, just took out an army intent on world domination) lunatic. He's basically a generic evil doer from a comic book.
Interesting note, his morality works synergistically with his love of fighting, because his frequent offers of mercy, and the threats that mercy brings with it, are what help keep him going to get stronger.
I've been a dbz fan for decades and i've never realised both Gero and 16's heads were decapetated then stomped. I knew both individually happened but I never connected the 2 until this vid, what a great video. you get a like for that.
Also android 16's appearance was modeled after Gero's dead son.
@@jamesb1988 that Goku killed during the time he killed the red ribbon army right ?when he was a kid
@@BonesDMS4life it was from before then, it mentions he was shot and killed by enemy fire. Unless Dragon Ball took a really dark turn that I don't remember with Goku channeling his inner Anton Chigurh asking Gero's son to pick heads or tails lol.
@@jamesb1988 haha back then goku was killing people that was the last bad thing he did . He literally wiped the entire army out . 😆
aka recoome
Why Goku was right to Spare Majin Buu
Because we wouldn’t have Super Buu then Kid Buu and if we didn’t have Kid Buu we wouldn’t have Uub give energy to help Goku against Moro
If he was smarter he wouldn't be in that mess that he was and wouldn't need Uub to bail him out. But yeah, you are right.
I mean, if he had killed either of those versions of Buu then Uub would actually be vastly stronger so...
@@jamainegardner4193
Uub wouldn’t exist if Goku killed Fat Buu
**SPOILERS FOR THE MANGA**
Goku got the chance to finish off moro but had to fuck it up with the senzu bean retardation
Might want to get rid of the spoilers in this comment or say there are spoilers. Some people haven't read the Manga yet and genuinely care about spoilers :)
5:20 *cough* *cough* *Moro* *cough*
before even watching the video they would have been scraped by half powered majin buu
I agree with you on that completely
They wouldn't have beaten Dabura. But maybe it would've been really difficult.
There would be no majin buu thwy needed goku's power to wake him.
@@reddenfam8050 they didnt need goku's power...it just sped things up instead of taking a lot longer
Scraped?
Dr. Gero as the mastermind behind the Red Ribbon army always felt like a retcon to me. Because he was never even mentioned once in the original Dragon Ball series. Also Goku totally fought Frieza because he wanted a good fight. His motivations were purely selfish.
He didn't fight Frieza because had he not he would have kill his bestfriends and son? At that point no you could say he really wanted to fight him when he turned super saiyan and wished everybody on namek away except him and frieza but even then he got tired of fighting frieza
@@nnightkingj He's initial reaction to hearing about Frieza was I really wanna fight this guy. His friends and son weren't even in danger yet.
@@rebal180 yes goku clearly wanted to fight him but when he fought him he was doing it to protect his friends but the whole reason goku even went to namek was because they were on danger
@@nnightkingj Well no Goku went as back up to bring their other friends back but, he didn't find out they were in trouble until he ran into the Ginyu Force. King Kai even warned him to stay away from Frieza which even if Frieza hadn't found Vegeta and the others that wasn't going to happen. Goku would've tracked Frieza down after he would order everyone to leave him on Namek because that's who he is.
@@rebal180 I'm pretty sure master roshi came up to him while he was still in the hospital and said vegeta and a whole bunch of other people were on namek much before the ginyu forces arrival
A pre-crime death sentence a day keeps the Doctor away.
As well as his jinzoningen.
~_~
Why not ask Fortune Teller Baba where Dr. Gero was and what would happen?
Makes sense actually
@@ghettokage6104 That's why it couldn't happen...
@@AndrewAce. Damn
Also to consider, if they had just gone and killed Gero then they would have been woefully ill-prepared for the Buu saga.
Timeline as is;
-Trunks shows up to warn Goku
-3 Years of goal oriented training to defeat the androids.
-The Androids overwhelm the fighters so there is intense training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, plus the fusion of Kami and Piccolo.
-Trunks becomes strong enough to defeat HIS androids/cell
-Gohan attains SSj
-Dende is brought to earth as the new guardian thus decoupling the use of dragon balls with the life of one of the fighters.
-Cell Games, Goku dies, Gohan becomes SSj2
-Dead Goku does 7 years of training in otherworld and attains SSj 2 and 3
-Vegeta does 7 years of goal oriented training of hoping to attain SSj2 and surpass Gohan
If they just went off to kill Gero then by the time Buu Saga occurs then Future Trunks gets merced in his own timeline either by his Androids or Cell, the fighters get 10 years of just whatever training they were doing, there are probably not any SSj2 and they might not know it exists, and if Piccolo dies in this saga there are no dragon balls.
Yeah and there's still the Goku Black saga and the battle of Gods as well
Goku is really not some western Super Hero ideal like how you are seeing him.
I think most American fans really missed out on a dominant trait of Goku: childish innocence. It's hard to explain, but he is not thinking in a "conventional" way, like "how to solve issues as efficiently as possible", but he doesn't think like this because he is just dumb and doesn't take the risk factors into consideration, especially when others are in danger. The reason for these decisions is different:
He didn't kill Gero simply for the same reason he didn't train more before the Cell tournament, or why he gave Cell the beans. He is just very confident in his or his close ones' abilities, and unlike Vegeta or others, he is not blinded by pride or a desire for glory that would make him misjudge these abilities. He has a very "pure" way of seeing everything, and he could tell without any delusions what he or Gohan was capable of if they tried.
The reason he is not killing villains is simply because it is not necessary, because even if they would to return, he is confident in being able to get stronger and stop them, and that's also why you misinterpreted what that Super page talked about. It didn't meant that goku doesn't care about consequences and Only cares about the excitement of fighting, he just explained why he doesn't take the easy and sure way of getting rid of these villains by just killing them: because he can already deal with them in his own way, which is both more exciting for him and also gives the villains a second chance to turn good.
Glad someone acknowledges that Goku was an actual character before Super came and made him a simple caricature of himself.
I disagree with Gero being innocent because he hasn't done anything wrong yet.
For example if you plan to to harm or murder and build a weapon to do so the police will arrest you in the USA and you'll be a terrorist with conspiracy to commit murder...
I'd say the act of planning to and building the tools do it is almost just as bad acually doing it.
You know, when Cell shows up during Piccolo and Android 17’s fight, all 5 of them should’ve just jumped his ass.
@Roman Francis this may be a little bit of a stretch, but I always interpreted Cell going into the water and dodging the light grenade as a way of showing that he couldn’t take it head on
@Roman Francis yeah, that’s actually a really good comparison
@@rdeal8912 he literally walked into the light grenade
@@dylanaruto20 he also emerged from the water below afterwards
@@rdeal8912 yeah but still, look at it this way, when Krillin used the destructo disk on Freeza, it cut his tail clean off. But no one is going to make the argument that Krillin is stronger than Freeza. Some attacks are just inherently strong no matter what the user’s power level is.
In DBZ logic sparing everyone is a good idea. Mass murderers magically become good people just from Goku being nice. But it doesn't work like that in real life. Really hard criminals usually have mental illnesses that make them permanently evil.
maybe you should reword that one better my guy. "mental illness that makes them evil" sounds a bit bad, like if they are inflicted with a mental illness to stop that from causing violence in other people they should at least be treated
A sociopath is an evil person, despite it being a mental condition.
What if Dr. Gero became an Android just like 17 and 18 instead of the one he made himself
Androids that absorb energy are more fast to make?
@@dominusangelo4659 nope it’s just because the author pulled it out of his ass since his editor didn’t like the original Annedroids, not sure there’s an actual reason in the lore
The energy absorption was pretty cool tho.
Even if limitless energy is also pretty good it is not as exciting to watch
Great video. You provided great points for Goku's morality that people tend to ignore. Though super is consistent with Goku's morality and him sparing his enemies in both the anime and manga which was also the discussion that Goku and Merus had.
7:55 No one ever said Goku had to murder Gero. They could've just destroyed his research and had Bulma use her influence to get him arrested for both having ties to the Red Ribbon Army, and planning to build killer robots. As for 17 and 18, if they were still around and in the process of being made into androids, they could've been reprogrammed by Bulma and her father.
Lastly, if Goku and pals were smart, they'd do some scouting before attacking Gero's lab, either through the Dragon Balls, or by having Fortuneteller Baba spy on him. By doing that, they'd know exactly what they were up against, and would be able to formulate a proper plan of action.
A prison stop Gero? Serious?
@@dominusangelo4659 Gero was an old man. They aren't known for their jailbreaking prowess.
@@dominusangelo4659if he wasnt an android yet it should be fine. but if he was an android by then, no way he is staying locked up on an earth prison
With all of this being said, it still wouldn't have helped the future timeline anyway. We see evidence of that after the defeat of Cell and Trucks goes back to his time where Cell is still in his base form. Granted due to the battle in the past, Trunks got much stronger as a result and was able to defeat the Androids after his return.
If they'd decided Bulma's plan was viable to execute, Trunks would never have been able to improve his strength to take them on and bring peace to his time in the end. Plus in his travels he learned of Cells existence and knew he needed the extra boots to be able to take him on.
Ergo; they off Gero early = Future is screwed even more, and with Piccolo having been killed (future timeline) Trunks wouldn't have the Dragonballs as an aid to wish everyone back that had perished. So yes, Goku making this decision (regardless of plot device setup) was the best one to make in order to preserve a safer timeline for both parties involved.
Wow, this was really thought out! I'm glad someone found a way to make Goku's decision to not kill Gero early plausable.
So Basically, Goku isn't a hero, He isn't a guy who wants to have a good fight, He's a Martial Artist with Good Morale and Honor.
To Have Honor doesn't mean to be Prideful. To have honor means to know when your opponent is beat, to be able to show mercy regardless of what your enemy has done, the ability to humble yourside, and cast your pride aside.
Pride is infact, the true source of shame, however, that doesn't mean have no pride at all but being too prideful is what causes you to bring nothing but shame upon yourself. Vegeta being a prime example of that. He had too much pride, and it wasn't until the end of Buu Saga where he finally started to let go alot of it. He kept his pride but reformed it, rather than it being about strength, it was more about being a better martial artist, and his family.
Case 1 of Goku being Honorable:
He was willing to let the Ginyu Force live and he had hoped they'd let go their evil ways. (Which would never happen because unlike most, the Ginyu Force were truly evil like Frieza. That's why they were Frieza's most trusted fighting force. They had outstanding loyalty but were just as wicked as the Frost Demon.)
Case 2:
He gave Frieza energy, despite what he had done. He still showed mercy, there was no dirty tricks, there was no bullshitting. He gave Frieza the energy to escape and live
Now being Honorable doesn't mean "oH Don'T tHrOW DIRT iN ThEIR eYes"
Because technically speaking, being in a real life or death battle, being resourceful, such as throwing dirt to blind your opponent is a smart move. Goku didn't want to do that however, he wanted to be able to beat his opponents on his own terms. Which is apart of what he thinks a fighter should be.
Especially if you're a swordsman, use your surroundings to your advantage.
However, if you're dueling someone, not for life or death, that's different. Using tricks such as throwing dirt in a duel, would be considered unhonorable, because you're simply dueling, which is meant to show your skills as a fighter without such tricks.
Just wanna point out though, if the androids never came that doesn't mean they'd be unprepared for Majin Buu. Babadi only came to Earth, because of the incredible power caused by Cell and Gohan's Kamehameha wave clash. He wanted that power to revive Buu.
What if Goku saved Gero's Head? Even if it would be quite a stretch given the situation, I think Gero could become quite handy in the upcoming arcs. Not voluntarily though, but Goku has turned bigger Baddies before.
Ehhh it just hit me.. 🤔 could cell had fused with piccolo???? 🤯🤯🤯
Or piccolo with cell. 🤯🤯🤯
if doctor Gero became a ally after his defeat the humans could have recieve some power ups.
ofcourse they need to accept the offer.
he could have work together with the father of bulma or bulma herself.
If he didnt do that then univsre 7 would have been erased
How would it have been erased
@@meek7765 no 17 so possible that no wish for the rest tp be wished back
@@joestarjester6011 okay there wouldve been somebody else to wish them back
@@meek7765 cause 17 was the last one standing him and feizea where holding him off and if he wasn't there jiren would have beaten frizea then goku or jiren would have knocked everyone off the stage with the blast he did when andriod 17 used the shield to protect goku and vegeta that's how
"The ends don't justify the means Goku!"
"You're mean!"
Alternate Title: Laughingstock plays Devil's advocate.
Android geroh has his brain transplanted in a robot. I would call him an android but most people would not with the modern day definition. Android 17 and 18 I would call cyborgs. Krillin is so potent he got his sex robot pregnant. If you add robot bionics to a human there a cyborg. If you add human organs to a robot it's a android
I was always wondering about where the hell Dr. Gero was because I didn’t remember any high ranking Red Ribbon members mention his name or even Eighter mention him
Who said anything about killing the guy? Why not have him arrested for kidnapping and illegal genetic experimentation.
I can see both sides to the argument. Good vid though
In all honesty it was still a bad idea. Hindsight is 2020. And Trunks time-line was completely destroyed.
Also their power levels were based off of the projected power levels. Being monitored via micro bug robots!
Sure, I bet them all getting killed by Cell when he inevitably came back in time would've been a better outcome, right?
toyotaro was better working on af tbh the characters there are much better than super heres hoping it comes official one day
i don't think he spared Dr.Gero it's more like they never met each other
They didn't. The first time Goku met the guy was when everyone thought he and 19 were THE Androids.
Ohhh so it was 19 who put geros brain in the cyborgs gero that’s crazy
3:09 why does bulma gotta be right there.
"After Vomi and Gero married, they had a son named Gevo who became the model for Android 16. However, the mother and son died at some point which pushed Gero to recreate his family as androids."
Gero was a complex villain with not that much screen time. his screen time translated into the complexities of all the androids.
Tien's quote reminds me of Drago. "If he dies, he dies."
Hello
Hi
In other words, without much of Goku, the Z Fighters are nothing but a murderous band of avenging tricksters, plunderers, backstabbers, and sadists.
Woah actually
@@ghettokage6104 Oh right, and Users.
@@TheMightyN Damn bro
other option:
go to dr gero - if he is still human, talk him out of scene. Maybe use Dragon balls to give his son back (even with 1-year time to ressurect, they can use option like "transfer Gero's son soul into #16 body")
and:
TAKE BULMA TO MAKE NEW PROGRAM TO ANDROIDS
Based Bulma
Tenshinhan got beat so bad he never thought about fighting another villain like that.
You said teaming up on bad guys dosent help?
It actually helps alot
Goku will spare anyone to fight them again
but what if he didn't, but it made things worse. Let's say Gero starts releasing all the bots as a bid for time. As Goku and the party fight them Gero rushes to his underground lab... Cell is the only thing that can help now but it's just starting. It will be decades. Hearing 13 bite it, he starts cranking things up to 11, Cell convolves in pain as it's flesh grows faster than its skeletal system. "No, it still needs more time" He cries as Krillin makes it down first and blasts him right into the tank holding cell. The lab starts it's self destruct and as everyone makes it out, Gero reaches out with one hand, Cell as a gel reaches out and covers his hand.
Symbiot cell awakens.
no
Gero- setting up the brow line and long hair of Super Saiyan 3 before 2 was even a thing!
"If I die then it will be an honorable death."
The countless dead from the Androids: "I feel so honored."
The fact that android 19 & 20 were stronger than full form Frezia on namek is just nonsense idk it just feels not right
that's what i say, people who said super has shitty power scaling must have not watch dragon ball closely to see that it has been like this since the beginning
Yeah I always thought that was ridiculous. People go to super or the buu saga to say super saiyan got devalued there but it got devalued as soon as androids could crush ss
@@i-10haula88 ik how does a human being I mean the old man 👴 is a genius but at the same time being able to create and turn himself into a jinzo ningen plus turning two teenage orphans into one of the universe strongest is just.... wow u would think that Frieza with his army of different species there scientists couldn’t do the same for him or king 👑 cold smh
@@gamerxgamerz2172 yup it would have been nice to get some sort of explanation as to how he made them so powerful.
@@i-10haula88 probably something to do with their limitless energy
People tend to forget that Goku and the Z warriors aren't superheroes they aren't obligated to save/fight anyone so even if they have selfish motives they have more power than any of us so they can do as they like.
So where was Dr Gero is Dragon Ball? Was he the Dr that removed Android’s 8 bomb?
I wanna know this too. Where was Gero in DragonBall?
Without Dr. Gero, 17 would never be there to save the multiverse from Zenos' judgement.
Bruh Goku didn't even know Gero existed
Random thought after watching the original Dragon Ball - Did Tao Pai Pai get his cyborg modifications from Doctor Gero in the six years?
Okay but couldn't he have at least tried to interfere with his work?
Oooh this wasn't a time travel thing.
Android saga was the one that sold me on the DBZ franchise.
6:36 WRONG
I agree with you no way 19-20 was stronger than lord frezia 100% form if so piccolo wouldn’t won so easy over dr gero
@@donnaykilgoremo3 I dunno bruh maybe because there was an entire year worth of difference? I dunno
You know, I really like hearing these types of theories that have pretty strong logic behind them and facts that take into account characters past motivations and who they are now to come up with sound reason to explain certain actions that seem dumb or hypocritical to the story/character at first glance.
You know what I hate? When some overly spiteful critic comes in and then says "Your not aloud to say s-it the show/manga isn't saying. However, this show/manga IS BAD because it is saying what I'AM saying. Even though my theory has nearly no facts and is mostly 'shoulda, woulda, coulda' head cannon theory."
He needed the Androids for the T.O.P. as allies so good job Kakorot
Well, the thing that made the androids diffrent from the future ones, or so I like to think, is the training. Because Gero had to focuse more on powering up the androids, he couldn't get more brainwashing in, in order to make them more evil.
And Maybe, just maybe, if they met Gero Earlier, and just tried to, talk, of all things, maybe something better could have came from it. But we'll never know.
Look what it lead to when Goku let Dr. Gero go?, Gero created the Androids which devastated Trunks’ Future which lead to time travel which is a taboo and made Zamasu ruined Trunks’ Future again, all this is Goku’s fault
Goku is mostly the cause of all problems
He didn't let him go. He never met him or knew he existed until the Android Saga. The old dub got that wrong. However, he and the other Z Warriors ae guilty of not listening to Bulma and stopping him 3 years earlier.
@@parkerboy795 and now Goku let Frieza go, Frieza is gonna do something Terrible that it’s gonna Goku’s Fault
@@gerardorodriguez7500 Sadly, that's true.
@@parkerboy795 what do you think Frieza’s next evil plan is?
Plus if Everyone followed Bulmas plan, there wouldnt be much of a story
2:36 to 2:50
Wait WHAT?
When you say "despite what Dragon Ball Super would have you believe" and "revisionist history", I don't think you take into account that this isn't something that originated in Dragon Ball Super. First of all, not even DBS implies that Goku's morality is just fighting strong opponents since that's not morality. But fighting strong opponents is a driving factor for his character. And when it comes to honor, he didn't like the Super Saiyan God transformation originally, because he didn't earn it himself. But it's clear that he's put fighting before caring for others multiple times. That's not necessarily in a malicious way. But during the Cell Games, Goku forfeited (which isn't a problem itself), then he sent his son in to fight (yeah, he saw the power that Gohan had inside, but Gohan was ignorant to this fact), and that could be excusable if it weren't for the fact that Goku also gave Cell a Senzu Bean before sending Gohan in to fight. You could argue that that's Goku being honorable. But when the fate of a planet is on the line, there's no place for that kind of honor.
As for Doctor Gero, his existence is a retcon. Doctor Gero wasn't in Dragon Ball. There wouldn't even be any differences until you come to the DBZ Android Saga. The fact is that Goku didn't spare Gero's life, Goku just never came across Gero. However, without Gero being in DBZ, there would be no androids 17 and 18 in the Future timeline, so Trunks would never have come back in time to warn the Z Fighters of Goku's heart virus, and therefore Goku would die without an option to be wished back with the Dragonballs. Although if they caught it in time, could they use the Dragonballs to wish for the heart virus to go away?
If they killed Gero and the Androids without any issues, it'd mean they'd be dead soon afterwards - Cell would've come to this timeline anyway and while he wouldn't be able to absorb the Androids due to them being destroyed, I bet he'd be pretty pissed and considering at his weakest he was still much stronger than Gero and 19, he'd proceed to slaughter everything in his way with Goku and the rest being too weak to stop him since they'd have no reason to train hard with 17 and 18 gone.
There would actually also be two Cells running around as they wouldn't even know about the cell in Dr. Gero's basement. So unless the Current cell consumes the embryo cell, there would be two Cells roaming around 17 years later due to the fuck you just described.
I don't think so. Cell was strong, sure, but at his "weakest" he was very easily beaten by Piccolo (fused with Kami), and promptly ran away upon Trunks' arrival on the battlefield. He became stronger later, but only because the androids were still a threat searching for Goku, thus the main characters' efforts were focused on something else, giving him time to absorb more cities.
In my opinion, what was likely to happen, if the Androids were killed was that future Cell would eventually come, as he did, and would most likely be slaughtered by the Z-Warriors, most likely Piccolo, Trunks and Vegeta, once people realized a lot of cities were suddenly disappearing.
@@victorabreu13 Sure, ignore the fact that they WERE searching for Cell but were unable to find him because he was moving on the ground and hiding his ki. He wasn't as stupid as you believe, quite contrary. Piccolo in particular would have no reason to even consider fusing with Kami due to 17 and 18 not being a threat, he'd first have to meet Cell and - guess what - even Cell at his weakest would be too much for this Piccolo. And no, he wouldn't let his enemies go. Imperfect Cell wasn't looking for a good fight, he'd kill everything in his way if he was able to. And if he wasn't, he'd simply escape and get stronger by absorbing more humans.
@@anthonyclark9591 Yeah, but the Present Cell would probably try to find some way to go to the past since I bet he'd find out pretty soon that 17 and 18 are dead. In fact it'd be a similar situation to the one from Cell's time line.
@@_Seru_ You are right. But even in this scenario, Kami only fused with Piccolo BECAUSE he was afraid of a bigger threat, namely Cell, so why would that change? Now, even if it did change, and they didn't fuse, how would it be possible for Cell become so strong that even the eventual Hyperbolic Time Chamber training would not be enough to kill him, even when taking in consideration that he'll never be perfect due to a lack of Androids 17 and 18? We're also talking about an universe where Goku has access to the antidote for his heart virus, so he would be alive.
I mean, Goku never even ran into him, Gero was created outta nowhere. How can you spare or not spare someone you don't even know exists.
Gero was never spared by Goku, and they never even met until 19 and 20 came. Goku didn't even recognize Artificial Human #20 as Dr. Gero
Dragon Balls