Thank you for your comment! We don't use enneagram, for a number of reasons. For one, unlike Socionics it does not have a strict model and ends up having a failing akin to the MBTI, that of vagueness. Also, for example, the fear of type 8 (being powerless) could be assigned (and that's stretching it) to both SLE and IEE (who are SuperEgos), but would mean literally opposite understandings of what being powerless would be. You can find more on the opposite styles in here: th-cam.com/video/MJ_yYB9kZp0/w-d-xo.html
I am just freeballing this, but let me know how it sounds. I may be wrong. I think you messed up with the non-literal comunications. I actually know that my IEE mom is like that, but she is definitly to chaotic, talkative and initiating to be an introvert. Simple example: -Me "Mom, what are we eating tonight?" -Mom "No way, are you hungry already (hints of sarcasm)? -Me "No, but what are we eating?" -Mom "Ok, ok, I'll start cooking." -Me "No don't, I just want to know what we are eating!" Explaination: Mom assumed that I wanted to eat, by analysing the context of the spoken words. Fi-Creative is only focused on intent and Ti-Vulnerable is not willing to translate every individual word into meaning. It's the entirety of context that is being observed to deduce meaning. An Fi-polr would on the contrary completly ignore the context and only focus on the meaning of the words being said. There is more focus on the specific details to deduce meaning. Ti users will often missout on someones intention, only focusing on what is said. As someone who doesn't know if he is an INFP or INTP (EII or LII) these destinctions help me understand the difference between Ti and Fi on an elemental level, compared to the classic "Stereotypes" which destroy the foundation of type. EIIs are often seen as being very different from LIIs, but they are actually almost the same. The only thing different is the direction of their primary function. One is Human, the other robotic, both are analysing everthing. When someone feels like EIIs innocent, they are. Because they are focused on intent as an end-goal (Unlike IEEs, who only use Fi as a tool), and since They are Ne-creative, they will try to compare reality with as many alternate possibilities as possible. What we find often is that EIIs will be very good at seeing the potential in things, because of Ne-Creative, but too avoidant of resposibility (Se-Vulnerable) to change their environment for their purpose (Ni)
I agree with what you say (with the exception of avoiding responsibility - but that's altogether a different topic), but I fail to see how we messed up since we are saying exactly the same thing? : ) IEEs will of course also be non-literal communications, they are a mirror type of EIIs after all and also have Fi as one of the two strongest aspects. You are right that it is the feature of Fi as opposed to Ti, and EIIs have Fi as their first aspect : )
@@encyclopediasocionika285 What type are you? Any advice on how to be improve your own type, or troubles your type deals with? Have you got any experience with EIIs that contradicts my observation/experience? The reason I may appear over-critical, is because I feel, like an EII (as in that every single detail matches up with socionics EII), but I am just way too, Ti-adequate and -focused. I am not trying to correct YOU, I am just trying to give feedback and get feedback on my feedbacking-skills 🤪. Fi-book incoming: By taking responsibility I mean using Se, or Making sacrifices to get what you PREFFER (Ni). Or Letting go of possibilities. Or getting your priorities straight. (It's all the same thing in the abstract) By 'taking responsibility' you accept that you can't always get everything, that live isn't a utopia (like my inner world), and instead you should give up everything that isn't 'that' important, and prioritise some things over others. Analogy: Like taking the stick in an Estafette-race, you get what you get, no point in being disappointed in the slowness of your teammates, you gotta give it all you got. Personal experience: I personally have a lot of problems with this as I cannot accept my mistakes as being 'just the past' or 'It be like that sometimes' and also, society being so inhumane; thus I get shackled in: self-pity and society-denial. 😡: You could call me a TRUE romantic, not the concretified version they teach in highschool literature-class. End of digression: I want to continue writing, but Let's Be Honest, In true EII fashion, I'd never stop, xIIs are just as talkative as Ne-Leads, they just need to trust you first, since they are weak in the extraverted-rational IMEs and, thus can't judge people all too quickly.
@@fakedoorsfordinner1677 I am an IEI. : ) Not sure if your question is how to improve my type or your type? 😅 And what exactly you want to improve? You definitely come across to me like a Ti type - either valuing Ti or Ti Lead/Creative with Ne. Definitely far too "adequate" Ti for EII I would say... Very happy to get feedback! So thank you for taking time to look at our work :) And happy to engage in a conversation = ) You see, the part of your post that you called Fi-book, I think is Ne - a lot of it is about not letting go of opportunities etc. I would put it under Idealism category rather than Romanticism, and that is just as common for Alphas as for Deltas - with different spins on it : ) But the way talk about it is very descriptive, again looks like Ti, not Fi at all...
@@encyclopediasocionika285 Afterthought: I always write more, versus when I speak. Does this mean I am an extravert masking or is this just normal introvert behaviour? Maybe I am an EII afterall🤪 I apologise for the bloat, my inner-mologue is just constant or am sorry for my 'Ne' book, once again. Seeing this rainbow-vomit propably makes you feel nautious. (It's clear i am not Ni dominant 😅, my thoughts just aren't organised at all): On your questions: Yeah, I meant what advice do you have for IEIs. -Well, I belief that to become better as a person (In the classical 'overcome your fears' Disney-like fashion), is to reach for the middle, improve your weaknesses. Only 'then' will you make an everlasting improvemen, that will not disappear in situational-distress. Self Quadra: Before I start, the Delta quadra sounds way more like me, than Alpha. I won't explain, sorry... Ti flattery: Eloquent ≠ Ti, And Ti ≠ intelligence. And Eloquent ≠ intelligence Though I am not an native English speaker, as still in highschool, so maybe that was an etempt at being modest. As I said before I employ both Ti and Fi in ways, but Fi is how I see the world and Ti is what I am good at, for some reason. Maybe the reason is because I, on accident, went to study scientific school (math, science, physics, biology, technology) and that forced my Ti to expand. O well. My hate for Fe: I dislike all Fe-activities, being apart of a group just makes me feel like a sheep, why do something like nationalism or sport-loving or going to a pub to get some social interaction with strangers. For I am not a sheep nor a shepherd. I am an observer watching it all unfold. My dislikes of Se and maybe Ti: As someone who gets highly attached to certain people -I stick to people like a magnet-, I'd have to that I am not a materialistic person (as in Barbie... Not the philosofical category) at all. In fact when focussing on materialistic stuff I feel bored: Playing video games = boring getting an gift = boring gaining money = boring Competition = scarry and bad Any type of entertainment = feels like fake happiness Eating good food = why bother Travelling = boring, could've done this at home Popularity contests = I dislike flaunting a lot, please stay sincere. Partying with random strangers = No way, I will stand in this corner only, and start interacting only when I feel like there is someone 'I' care about is there to experience it. Having FUN = wasting energy. I'd work on something that will last, rather than wasting time on something that will only be felt momentarily. It just feels stupid to activly seek happiness, to me happiness is more of a measuring-instrument. I am an Idealist: That all while I am extremly sensitive too the attrocities that happen every day -I cry about meaningless stuff, like someone not doing stuff in the right way. And extremly hard on people (In my imagination), critiquing pretty much everyone and every imperfection (While obviously not telling them unless I feel safe enough to not be punished by Fe types censoring my observations. Side-character: People, and their improvement however are literally the thing I live for. Seeing someone grow and achieve greatness, while watching them from the side-lines as a side-character; feels way better than actually being anything or doing anything else. I guess that that is why I like books so much. Let it happen: Or simply not be left behind by people. Because of my inaction, normal people, rarely care to help me or consider me. I don't ask a lot of things, but why be so unempathetic? It's moreso the feeling of being disappointed, rather than FOMO, which I do not have at all. I am infinite, but no one can see it: Or being understood/taken seriously, (I often say things and people misunderstand me, because It is too abstract and I usually have to use words in wrong contexts, which people don't seem to understand). Anyway, nothing is better than being understood. That feeling that the things you are feel and think aren't JUST yours to experience, someone knows of your (internal) existence. Your feelings do make sense and are important, and you don't exist in vacuüm, alone in your brain, without anything besides yourself existing. "I have no idea, what that means?" When I am understood, I forget solepsism and can finally connect with people/be myself, because I usually have to dumb myself down to not seem like someone arrogant or a know-it-all, albeit a very much more theoretical and less practical know-it-all that usually is the stereotype in their head. for I am unfunny: People find me boring for being to focused on the abstract things in life and people wish I were more interactive. Though I get very exited when someone I do care about, has anything at all happening (I don't care what it is, I am happy to exist in your life, and that you are sharing this to me.) Afterthought: I also love the style of texting, in which you talk in monologue in turns, rather than in a dialogue. It normally feels more appropriate to speak in this way, and I remember it being a Reinin dichotomy. PS: sorry for the bloat, I know Ni-Doms have trouble with this quantity of information, I apologise really.
@@fakedoorsfordinner1677 OK, yeah, that sounds like Delta Quadra rather than Alpha :) But there are 2 Delta Logical types that can do Ti and Ne ;) I don't have advice for IEIs really, because, you see, we, Betas, don't go for that kind of thing - it is inherently TeNe/FiSi to fix and improve and become "a better person"... Also on the point of Fe - we keep on saying that the whole group thing assigned under Fe is completely false - Fe is about raw emotions, not relationships with others. Ask Nietzsche, a Beta type, what he thought about herd... :D >>happiness is more of a measuring-instrument>I always write more, versus when I speak
Ugh the non-literal communicators, that sounds too complicated. That should be banned it creates inefficiency. But I guess all types hold stuff back so there you go.
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What Enneagram type fits well with EII? I’ve people say Sp6,Sp4 or even so 4 so can u also add a detailed explanation as to y?
Thank you for your comment! We don't use enneagram, for a number of reasons. For one, unlike Socionics it does not have a strict model and ends up having a failing akin to the MBTI, that of vagueness. Also, for example, the fear of type 8 (being powerless) could be assigned (and that's stretching it) to both SLE and IEE (who are SuperEgos), but would mean literally opposite understandings of what being powerless would be. You can find more on the opposite styles in here: th-cam.com/video/MJ_yYB9kZp0/w-d-xo.html
I am just freeballing this, but let me know how it sounds. I may be wrong.
I think you messed up with the non-literal comunications. I actually know that my IEE mom is like that, but she is definitly to chaotic, talkative and initiating to be an introvert.
Simple example:
-Me "Mom, what are we eating tonight?"
-Mom "No way, are you hungry already (hints of sarcasm)?
-Me "No, but what are we eating?"
-Mom "Ok, ok, I'll start cooking."
-Me "No don't, I just want to know what we are eating!"
Explaination:
Mom assumed that I wanted to eat, by analysing the context of the spoken words. Fi-Creative is only focused on intent and Ti-Vulnerable is not willing to translate every individual word into meaning. It's the entirety of context that is being observed to deduce meaning.
An Fi-polr would on the contrary completly ignore the context and only focus on the meaning of the words being said. There is more focus on the specific details to deduce meaning. Ti users will often missout on someones intention, only focusing on what is said.
As someone who doesn't know if he is an INFP or INTP (EII or LII) these destinctions help me understand the difference between Ti and Fi on an elemental level, compared to the classic "Stereotypes" which destroy the foundation of type.
EIIs are often seen as being very different from LIIs, but they are actually almost the same. The only thing different is the direction of their primary function.
One is Human, the other robotic, both are analysing everthing.
When someone feels like EIIs innocent, they are. Because they are focused on intent as an end-goal (Unlike IEEs, who only use Fi as a tool), and since They are Ne-creative, they will try to compare reality with as many alternate possibilities as possible. What we find often is that EIIs will be very good at seeing the potential in things, because of Ne-Creative, but too avoidant of resposibility (Se-Vulnerable) to change their environment for their purpose (Ni)
I agree with what you say (with the exception of avoiding responsibility - but that's altogether a different topic), but I fail to see how we messed up since we are saying exactly the same thing? : ) IEEs will of course also be non-literal communications, they are a mirror type of EIIs after all and also have Fi as one of the two strongest aspects. You are right that it is the feature of Fi as opposed to Ti, and EIIs have Fi as their first aspect : )
@@encyclopediasocionika285 What type are you?
Any advice on how to be improve your own type, or troubles your type deals with?
Have you got any experience with EIIs that contradicts my observation/experience?
The reason I may appear over-critical, is because I feel, like an EII (as in that every single detail matches up with socionics EII), but I am just way too, Ti-adequate and -focused. I am not trying to correct YOU, I am just trying to give feedback and get feedback on my feedbacking-skills 🤪.
Fi-book incoming:
By taking responsibility I mean using Se, or Making sacrifices to get what you PREFFER (Ni). Or Letting go of possibilities. Or getting your priorities straight. (It's all the same thing in the abstract)
By 'taking responsibility' you accept that you can't always get everything, that live isn't a utopia (like my inner world), and instead you should give up everything that isn't 'that' important, and prioritise some things over others.
Analogy:
Like taking the stick in an Estafette-race, you get what you get, no point in being disappointed in the slowness of your teammates, you gotta give it all you got.
Personal experience:
I personally have a lot of problems with this as I cannot accept my mistakes as being 'just the past' or 'It be like that sometimes' and also, society being so inhumane; thus I get shackled in: self-pity and society-denial.
😡:
You could call me a TRUE romantic, not the concretified version they teach in highschool literature-class.
End of digression:
I want to continue writing, but Let's Be Honest, In true EII fashion, I'd never stop, xIIs are just as talkative as Ne-Leads, they just need to trust you first, since they are weak in the extraverted-rational IMEs and, thus can't judge people all too quickly.
@@fakedoorsfordinner1677 I am an IEI. : ) Not sure if your question is how to improve my type or your type? 😅 And what exactly you want to improve?
You definitely come across to me like a Ti type - either valuing Ti or Ti Lead/Creative with Ne. Definitely far too "adequate" Ti for EII I would say...
Very happy to get feedback! So thank you for taking time to look at our work :) And happy to engage in a conversation = )
You see, the part of your post that you called Fi-book, I think is Ne - a lot of it is about not letting go of opportunities etc. I would put it under Idealism category rather than Romanticism, and that is just as common for Alphas as for Deltas - with different spins on it : )
But the way talk about it is very descriptive, again looks like Ti, not Fi at all...
@@encyclopediasocionika285 Afterthought:
I always write more, versus when I speak. Does this mean I am an extravert masking or is this just normal introvert behaviour? Maybe I am an EII afterall🤪
I apologise for the bloat, my inner-mologue is just constant or am sorry for my 'Ne' book, once again. Seeing this rainbow-vomit propably makes you feel nautious.
(It's clear i am not Ni dominant 😅, my thoughts just aren't organised at all):
On your questions:
Yeah, I meant what advice do you have for IEIs.
-Well, I belief that to become better as a person (In the classical 'overcome your fears' Disney-like fashion), is to reach for the middle, improve your weaknesses. Only 'then' will you make an everlasting improvemen, that will not disappear in situational-distress.
Self Quadra:
Before I start, the Delta quadra sounds way more like me, than Alpha. I won't explain, sorry...
Ti flattery:
Eloquent ≠ Ti,
And Ti ≠ intelligence.
And Eloquent ≠ intelligence
Though I am not an native English speaker, as still in highschool, so maybe that was an etempt at being modest. As I said before I employ both Ti and Fi in ways, but Fi is how I see the world and Ti is what I am good at, for some reason.
Maybe the reason is because I, on accident, went to study scientific school (math, science, physics, biology, technology) and that forced my Ti to expand. O well.
My hate for Fe:
I dislike all Fe-activities, being apart of a group just makes me feel like a sheep, why do something like nationalism or sport-loving or going to a pub to get some social interaction with strangers. For I am not a sheep nor a shepherd. I am an observer watching it all unfold.
My dislikes of Se and maybe Ti:
As someone who gets highly attached to certain people -I stick to people like a magnet-, I'd have to that I am not a materialistic person (as in Barbie... Not the philosofical category) at all. In fact when focussing on materialistic stuff I feel bored:
Playing video games = boring
getting an gift = boring
gaining money = boring
Competition = scarry and bad
Any type of entertainment = feels like fake happiness
Eating good food = why bother
Travelling = boring, could've done this at home
Popularity contests = I dislike flaunting a lot, please stay sincere.
Partying with random strangers = No way, I will stand in this corner only, and start interacting only when I feel like there is someone 'I' care about is there to experience it.
Having FUN = wasting energy. I'd work on something that will last, rather than wasting time on something that will only be felt momentarily. It just feels stupid to activly seek happiness, to me happiness is more of a measuring-instrument.
I am an Idealist:
That all while I am extremly sensitive too the attrocities that happen every day -I cry about meaningless stuff, like someone not doing stuff in the right way. And extremly hard on people (In my imagination), critiquing pretty much everyone and every imperfection (While obviously not telling them unless I feel safe enough to not be punished by Fe types censoring my observations.
Side-character:
People, and their improvement however are literally the thing I live for. Seeing someone grow and achieve greatness, while watching them from the side-lines as a side-character; feels way better than actually being anything or doing anything else. I guess that that is why I like books so much.
Let it happen:
Or simply not be left behind by people. Because of my inaction, normal people, rarely care to help me or consider me. I don't ask a lot of things, but why be so unempathetic? It's moreso the feeling of being disappointed, rather than FOMO, which I do not have at all.
I am infinite, but no one can see it:
Or being understood/taken seriously,
(I often say things and people misunderstand me, because It is too abstract and I usually have to use words in wrong contexts, which people don't seem to understand).
Anyway, nothing is better than being understood. That feeling that the things you are feel and think aren't JUST yours to experience, someone knows of your (internal) existence. Your feelings do make sense and are important, and you don't exist in vacuüm, alone in your brain, without anything besides yourself existing.
"I have no idea, what that means?"
When I am understood, I forget solepsism and can finally connect with people/be myself, because I usually have to dumb myself down to not seem like someone arrogant or a know-it-all, albeit a very much more theoretical and less practical know-it-all that usually is the stereotype in their head.
for I am unfunny:
People find me boring for being to focused on the abstract things in life and people wish I were more interactive. Though I get very exited when someone I do care about, has anything at all happening (I don't care what it is, I am happy to exist in your life, and that you are sharing this to me.)
Afterthought:
I also love the style of texting, in which you talk in monologue in turns, rather than in a dialogue. It normally feels more appropriate to speak in this way, and I remember it being a Reinin dichotomy.
PS: sorry for the bloat, I know Ni-Doms have trouble with this quantity of information, I apologise really.
@@fakedoorsfordinner1677
OK, yeah, that sounds like Delta Quadra rather than Alpha :) But there are 2 Delta Logical types that can do Ti and Ne ;)
I don't have advice for IEIs really, because, you see, we, Betas, don't go for that kind of thing - it is inherently TeNe/FiSi to fix and improve and become "a better person"...
Also on the point of Fe - we keep on saying that the whole group thing assigned under Fe is completely false - Fe is about raw emotions, not relationships with others. Ask Nietzsche, a Beta type, what he thought about herd... :D
>>happiness is more of a measuring-instrument>I always write more, versus when I speak
Ugh the non-literal communicators, that sounds too complicated. That should be banned it creates inefficiency.
But I guess all types hold stuff back so there you go.