To the price-check brigade, I did not invent prices from thin air. I priced both ammos by the box, not the case. I checked numerous retailers the day I made this video in late August. Though very few had the HEVI-12 in 3 " #6 with 1.25oz by the BOX. The prices have changed some since then, but they are still fairly similar. Here is some price data as of TODAY from REPUTABLE NATIONAL online retailers, who have the EXACT load as tested. www.newhuntersguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/HEVI-12-vs.-Warchief-Price-Data.pdf And yes, I know the sponsor segment is too long. I need to tighten it up, I haven't done many of these. I'm working on it.
Still hoping you’ll do some tests of lead hunting loads for those of us who do upland hunting. Great job as usual! God bless and go get ‘em on the high plains!
Great video, I like it a lot when you learn many things that are so applicable to other shotgun loads and development. Always a good day knowing more! Thanks
I just found your channel last night and find myself binge watching a lot of your videos where you are doing ammo comparisons. I feel like i am learning a lot. Yes, i do like these videos, and i am glad that you enjoy making them. PLEASE, keep em coming as my brain feels like a sponge now, and i can't get enough!!!
The Boss products really check every box that matters but the most important - their distribution being consumer direct only with no shipping or distributors in Canada.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide That's what it comes down to - regulations. Other brands get around it by using Canadian distributors like Cabela's but as a consumer direct distribution model its not possible. The postal system in Canada is completely broken for anything firearms related - we had sent some boolots (not loaded cartridges) to a customer in the same province.. some woke postal worker in the city inspected it and panicked so much the package was seized. Her supervisor also did not know the difference between Ammo and inert Boolots and confirmed the seizure.
Great videos, really enjoy these type of reviews. I also really like that you put the charts in the reviews with the percentages and other info. So do you prefer the Muller ufo choke to the Carlson BBB? Which choke would you be using if you were hunting with boss #2s and #4s?
Thanks! I have been using the Muller UFO often this season for jump hunting, because those are often max range scenarios. But its way too tight for regular hunting applications. It really comes down to what you are doing and which BOSS ammo you are using. For Warcheif, I'd use the Muller Decoy for hunting over decoys because it opens up the pattern faster than anything I've seen. For Legacy, I haven't really tested it with the Muller chokes yet, but I settled into using the BBB last season because it kept the pattern together well. Honestly, the two ammos need totally different choking strategies. The Legacy is maybe the best close range bismuth load on the market, in my opinion, and the Warcheif is maybe the best long range bismuth load. There is alot of overlap between them but I use the most open choke possible with Warchief at close range while I use a much tighter choke for Legacy over decoys.
What about a comparison of number 4 vs number 4? I understand why you compare different sizes of shot like you do but an accurate comparison with the same shot sizes would be nice to know also.
I appretiate your efforts trying to find out the best gear for our hunting time. Have you kicked around the idea of shooting off a sled? Now that ive been patterning my shotguns, ive found it makes my shots more uniform. Again, keep up the great work!!!
I missed commenting on this one :(. After patterning this past weekend I realized that my factory chokes are not nearly as dense as your patterns are. Based off that how would one decide which choke to buy and which company to use? Could be a good podcast or video topic too
I be bought 4 boxes of Hevi 12’s now for hunting greater Canadas. 2-boxes of 2’s and 2 boxes of 4’s I’ve unfortunately have not had a chance to try them out yet. 2’s cost me $50 a box the 4’s I believe were $55. Simmons Sporting Goods.
Hi George, As always great video. I’d appreciate your insights regarding pattern density. If a pattern density benchmark for a clean take is say 100 pellets in a 30” circle at 40 yards, and a shell selection provides 180 or 223 pellets, then what are your thoughts about opening up on the choke? Dividing 100 pellets into the area of a 30” circle, the density equates to about one pellet every 7.1”. 180 pellets provides a density of about 3.9”, and 223 pellets provides one pellet every 3.2”. Do you have a pattern density sweet spot? Is there a metric for too much density? From a few of your past videos, I’m reminded of sayings to the effect of “you can’t kill something more than dead” and a comment about too much constriction basically rendering game less edible. Your thoughts are appreciated. All the best and go get ‘em in the woods
I would absolutely open the choke up more to hunt at this distance. The only real way o can do good comparisons is with max range chokes to see the tightest possible pattern. If 40 yards was my max, I would open up the choke until I got to about 130 ish pellets in the circle. That would give a bigger circle and more margin. Ideally you tune the pattern to have 100-150 at whatever your intended range is.
Great Video as always! I would like to see this test again once the tempter is below 35. From my experience I saw an extreme decrease in performance from boss in colder weather. Ducks shot at 15 yards flying away, and multiple guns failed to cycle. I hope Boss fixes this issues because after buying a gun, gear, decoys, and a boat a dollar more a shell for HEVI-12 really shouldn't matter.
Thanks. I have done test videos in cold weather with BOSS before, never had any fall off in performance compared to other loads. BOSS actually chrono's their loads at 40 degrees f where most other loads do 70 degrees, so they are rated at colder temps than almost all other loads. However, just knowing how shotgun shells work, you lose less than 1 FPS for every degree drop in temperature. It is a relatively consistent thing across all brands and handloads. It's actually about a 0.7 fps drop per degree f. From 40f to 30f you'd lose about 7fps, so BOSS shells would be going about 1343fps. Not enough difference to change anything. There isn't anything BOSS could do or not do to make a load perform well at room temp and be impotent at 35f. It's just the physics of primers, powders, and pressures. UNLESS you got moisture in the powder or primer. That is the #1 thing that would cause that kind of effect. I have shot ducks with BOSS on mornings where it was 8 degrees F outside. One shot, one kill. Divers even. So I would say you got moisture in your shells at some point. Could even have been months before. That's the most likely cause.
Becareful with Hevi 12, shot hevi 12 - #2 out of my beretta a400 xtreme. Damaged every choke i used: patternmaster code black goose, carlson delta full, trulock f1, cremator full, patternmaster black cloud choke full. All the chokes were swollen. All rated for tungsten
They literally tell you on the optima hp chokes not to use over modified for steel or hevi shot. Carlson makes a special carpenter 455 steel choke for this gun as well. I have same gun and never had issues and shoot tight patterns out past 40 yrds with modified.
Based on your testing with the Warchief experience with the number 5s, do you think Warchief number 6s would be a sufficient wood duck load? Even in January when their feathers are a little thicker?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide 40 yards pattern tests with different chokes. I get two months to shoot at running deer here in nj. Thank you for the work you put in to make this happen!
From what I understand the hevi12 shouldn't be shot out of older shotguns with softer steel. The war chiefs are copper coated bismuth.. I don't think there is anything wrong with shooting those out of antique guns. Would love to see you test out different federal flight control shells like the prairie storm.. that is what I used for a cheap turkey shell. #5 shot
Ive used boss 3/5s 4s and 3/5 warcheifs i keep trying to like boss but it fails me used 4s couple weeks ago on geese at 35 yards and didnt drop few other things without going crazy details but used hevi x last season 4 shot on geese and straight slayed them
For January geese you need at least BOSS #3s or #2s. The 4s and 3/5 just aren't enough without pellets in the head/neck this time of year. HEVI 4 is a goose load, maybe even the best one on the market. BOSS #4 is a duck load.
No sir, my prices are accurate when you buy both by the box, not case. Here is one of many with similar prices. The shooting date and price check was over a month ago. www.midwayusa.com/product/1023643249?pid=868487
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To the price-check brigade, I did not invent prices from thin air. I priced both ammos by the box, not the case. I checked numerous retailers the day I made this video in late August. Though very few had the HEVI-12 in 3 " #6 with 1.25oz by the BOX. The prices have changed some since then, but they are still fairly similar. Here is some price data as of TODAY from REPUTABLE NATIONAL online retailers, who have the EXACT load as tested. www.newhuntersguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/HEVI-12-vs.-Warchief-Price-Data.pdf
And yes, I know the sponsor segment is too long. I need to tighten it up, I haven't done many of these. I'm working on it.
Still hoping you’ll do some tests of lead hunting loads for those of us who do upland hunting. Great job as usual! God bless and go get ‘em on the high plains!
Thanks! It is on my list. It's just a really long list... Sorry.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide that’s ok buddy! I’m here for the long term! Love the channel and the podcast!
No complications needed!!!
Again, your efforts are appretiated!!!!
Thank you!
Very excited for this video. Thanks for the awesome content.
Thanks so much for your support!
Great video,
I like it a lot when you learn many things that are so applicable to other shotgun loads and development. Always a good day knowing more! Thanks
Thanks so much!
Amazing as always. Thank you George for making this video.
Thanks so much for watching!
I just found your channel last night and find myself binge watching a lot of your videos where you are doing ammo comparisons. I feel like i am learning a lot. Yes, i do like these videos, and i am glad that you enjoy making them. PLEASE, keep em coming as my brain feels like a sponge now, and i can't get enough!!!
Hey, thank you so much! I have many more on the way!
I just got into duck hunting and I love your videos. Perfect amount of of info and testing. You really put perspective into your videos.
Thank you so much!!
Another great vid, George!
I shoot Boss legacy...multiple sizes.
I also shoot hevi-XII #4S.
Never see much difference in performance.
Thanks so much!
The Boss products really check every box that matters but the most important - their distribution being consumer direct only with no shipping or distributors in Canada.
They really need to get that fixed, that's a big gap. But I can't imagine what the regulations look like for exporting shells.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide That's what it comes down to - regulations. Other brands get around it by using Canadian distributors like Cabela's but as a consumer direct distribution model its not possible. The postal system in Canada is completely broken for anything firearms related - we had sent some boolots (not loaded cartridges) to a customer in the same province.. some woke postal worker in the city inspected it and panicked so much the package was seized. Her supervisor also did not know the difference between Ammo and inert Boolots and confirmed the seizure.
I was literally just thinking about this test yesterday.
Right on!
Another great informative video. But, I am still going to use steel. Keep them coming as you always have something to ponder over.
Thanks! I have more videos about steel on the way. And planning more in the future too.
Keep counting those pellets George, God bless you and go get them in the marsh.
Ha, thanks so much Jeff!
Thank you
Thanks for watching!
I have been waiting for this video awesome video.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
Nice work.
Thank you!
Great videos, really enjoy these type of reviews. I also really like that you put the charts in the reviews with the percentages and other info. So do you prefer the Muller ufo choke to the Carlson BBB? Which choke would you be using if you were hunting with boss #2s and #4s?
Thanks! I have been using the Muller UFO often this season for jump hunting, because those are often max range scenarios. But its way too tight for regular hunting applications. It really comes down to what you are doing and which BOSS ammo you are using. For Warcheif, I'd use the Muller Decoy for hunting over decoys because it opens up the pattern faster than anything I've seen. For Legacy, I haven't really tested it with the Muller chokes yet, but I settled into using the BBB last season because it kept the pattern together well.
Honestly, the two ammos need totally different choking strategies. The Legacy is maybe the best close range bismuth load on the market, in my opinion, and the Warcheif is maybe the best long range bismuth load. There is alot of overlap between them but I use the most open choke possible with Warchief at close range while I use a much tighter choke for Legacy over decoys.
What about a comparison of number 4 vs number 4? I understand why you compare different sizes of shot like you do but an accurate comparison with the same shot sizes would be nice to know also.
I did that test video the previous season, this one was a follow-up requested from that one.
PA duck opener...hope you got into some today brother
It was a slow day. Slowest opener I've ever had. But did get a nice teal!
I appretiate your efforts trying to find out the best gear for our hunting time.
Have you kicked around the idea of shooting off a sled?
Now that ive been patterning my shotguns, ive found it makes my shots more uniform.
Again, keep up the great work!!!
Thanks! The paper is so large that I'll still catch the whole pattern even if I pull the shot. And it would complicate the video more than its worth.
I missed commenting on this one :(.
After patterning this past weekend I realized that my factory chokes are not nearly as dense as your patterns are. Based off that how would one decide which choke to buy and which company to use? Could be a good podcast or video topic too
Video along those lines is already in the works! Thanks!
I be bought 4 boxes of Hevi 12’s now for hunting greater Canadas. 2-boxes of 2’s and 2 boxes of 4’s I’ve unfortunately have not had a chance to try them out yet. 2’s cost me $50 a box the 4’s I believe were $55. Simmons Sporting Goods.
These are the prices I've found everywhere I looked the day I shot this, a month ago www.midwayusa.com/product/1023643249?pid=868487
Hi George,
As always great video. I’d appreciate your insights regarding pattern density.
If a pattern density benchmark for a clean take is say 100 pellets in a 30” circle at 40 yards, and a shell selection provides 180 or 223 pellets, then what are your thoughts about opening up on the choke?
Dividing 100 pellets into the area of a 30” circle, the density equates to about one pellet every 7.1”. 180 pellets provides a density of about 3.9”, and 223 pellets provides one pellet every 3.2”.
Do you have a pattern density sweet spot?
Is there a metric for too much density?
From a few of your past videos, I’m reminded of sayings to the effect of “you can’t kill something more than dead” and a comment about too much constriction basically rendering game less edible.
Your thoughts are appreciated. All the best and go get ‘em in the woods
I would absolutely open the choke up more to hunt at this distance. The only real way o can do good comparisons is with max range chokes to see the tightest possible pattern. If 40 yards was my max, I would open up the choke until I got to about 130 ish pellets in the circle. That would give a bigger circle and more margin. Ideally you tune the pattern to have 100-150 at whatever your intended range is.
Thanks
Great Video as always! I would like to see this test again once the tempter is below 35. From my experience I saw an extreme decrease in performance from boss in colder weather. Ducks shot at 15 yards flying away, and multiple guns failed to cycle. I hope Boss fixes this issues because after buying a gun, gear, decoys, and a boat a dollar more a shell for HEVI-12 really shouldn't matter.
Thanks. I have done test videos in cold weather with BOSS before, never had any fall off in performance compared to other loads. BOSS actually chrono's their loads at 40 degrees f where most other loads do 70 degrees, so they are rated at colder temps than almost all other loads. However, just knowing how shotgun shells work, you lose less than 1 FPS for every degree drop in temperature. It is a relatively consistent thing across all brands and handloads. It's actually about a 0.7 fps drop per degree f. From 40f to 30f you'd lose about 7fps, so BOSS shells would be going about 1343fps. Not enough difference to change anything.
There isn't anything BOSS could do or not do to make a load perform well at room temp and be impotent at 35f. It's just the physics of primers, powders, and pressures. UNLESS you got moisture in the powder or primer. That is the #1 thing that would cause that kind of effect. I have shot ducks with BOSS on mornings where it was 8 degrees F outside. One shot, one kill. Divers even.
So I would say you got moisture in your shells at some point. Could even have been months before. That's the most likely cause.
Becareful with Hevi 12, shot hevi 12 - #2 out of my beretta a400 xtreme. Damaged every choke i used: patternmaster code black goose, carlson delta full, trulock f1, cremator full, patternmaster black cloud choke full. All the chokes were swollen. All rated for tungsten
Really? I hadn't heard of that. Have you tried to get them replaced under warranty?
My buddy had the same issue with his beretta a400 and he used steel 90% of the time. He sent it to beretta and they sent him a new barrel for no cost.
As they should have@@timwade8629
They literally tell you on the optima hp chokes not to use over modified for steel or hevi shot. Carlson makes a special carpenter 455 steel choke for this gun as well. I have same gun and never had issues and shoot tight patterns out past 40 yrds with modified.
Should try Migra 2/4 stacked load vs Boss 3/5 blended load
It's on my list, I just added it today actually. Want to test them against Fasteel+ 2/4 also.
Based on your testing with the Warchief experience with the number 5s, do you think Warchief number 6s would be a sufficient wood duck load? Even in January when their feathers are a little thicker?
If you are shooting inside of 35 yards, then probably. But not further than that. At least thats my take.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide yeah that’s what I was thinking. I usually don’t pull the trigger further than distance anyways.
To be fair, I've not tested them. Its mostly a guess based on the #5 at this point.@@nathanielchoate69
@@TheNewHuntersGuide test some number 6s man! I’ve heard of people shooting number 7s in the timber for mallards even
Do some 3.5" buckshot pattern tests
I'd like to do some buckshot tests. I think it will go right through the gel though.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide 40 yards pattern tests with different chokes. I get two months to shoot at running deer here in nj. Thank you for the work you put in to make this happen!
From what I understand the hevi12 shouldn't be shot out of older shotguns with softer steel. The war chiefs are copper coated bismuth.. I don't think there is anything wrong with shooting those out of antique guns.
Would love to see you test out different federal flight control shells like the prairie storm.. that is what I used for a cheap turkey shell. #5 shot
Thanks! That is on my list. But I haven't yet found the right load to test against the others I have.
dose the shotgun make difference in speed or dose the cartrige increase the speed
Got my warchiefs for free two boxes of the #2s 3 in
I still need to get some #2s, I bet they are super effective.
How did you grab them for free? Where are these free waterbird shells?
What do you mean? A viewer provided the shells.@@timd729
What other shotguns do you hunt with or is the 12 gauge it?
This is what I use for waterfowl. I have a 940 turkey that I use for gobblers.
Ive used boss 3/5s 4s and 3/5 warcheifs i keep trying to like boss but it fails me used 4s couple weeks ago on geese at 35 yards and didnt drop few other things without going crazy details but used hevi x last season 4 shot on geese and straight slayed them
Also I've used multiple chokes and pattern them to but I'll shoot what I have left of boss and continue to use hevi shot shells
For January geese you need at least BOSS #3s or #2s. The 4s and 3/5 just aren't enough without pellets in the head/neck this time of year. HEVI 4 is a goose load, maybe even the best one on the market. BOSS #4 is a duck load.
Wish we could just shoot lead and make everything easy 😂
It would be cheaper, that's for sure.
Good video
Thanks!
Why didn’t you compare number 4 hevi lol
I said in the video, I already did, that video posted last year.
Gonna be honest, the price is almost identical for both, Hevi 12 is so significantly better, and I’m a boss fan
Also you can find #6 Hevi 12 on rogers for 479.99 a case so I think you have some major misinformation in this video
I quoted the cost per box price the morning this was filmed. Not cost per case price. Yes you can get cases of both cheaper.
No sir, my prices are accurate when you buy both by the box, not case. Here is one of many with similar prices. The shooting date and price check was over a month ago. www.midwayusa.com/product/1023643249?pid=868487
I added more info in the pinned comment about pricing.