Been waiting for this one. I bought the 3’ 3/5s a few days ago so I’m happy to see the results of this. You’re the man, George! Wish I could like this video twice. Your hard work isn’t going unnoticed. Cheers and give ‘em hell this year!
I know you said you’ve done boss test with different chokes but do you think there is any merit to trying some different chokes (Mueller UFO/Carlson/Kicks) with the warchiefs. Would be interested to see if the UFO is in fact the best for these. Whatever the results, that choke should sponsor you bc I will buy it instantly pending those results. Thanks again and looking forward to your videos throughout duck season. Cheers from TX!
Thanks so much. I've tested Carlson's but not Kicks. The problem is that most choke companies that make specialty chokes are not trying to make the tightest long range choke possible. Even if they say they are. That is also not the most useful choke most of the time because few people hunt mostly long range in the real world. So tests like that are hard to do. Though I would happily do more if I could get more chokes.@@OG_Ghost
Yeah sorry, 30/40 yds is right where I want to be/ interested in. Everything else I just don’t feel is an ethical shot - so I’m usually shooting modified chokes for decoying birds and some closer passing shots…if that makes sense. Just a thought, I’m a fan regardless and have been sharing your videos with friends. Keep doing what you’re doing brother. We appreciate all the insight and test that most of us simply can’t do. Best
Thank you so much! So I would say most chokes with the Warchief is going to be great. If anything you may want to use more open chokes, this stuff patterns tight!@@OG_Ghost
When I switched to Bismuth I went from 3” Winchester drylock#3 as my preferred steel load to the #5 2 3/4” bismuth load. My dead right there tally doubled out of my Winchester Select O/U. Recoil was much easier on my shoulder and middle knuckle bruising on my middle finger disappeared. Frankly the bismuth killed like the lead loads of my youth.
Love the 5 shot bismuth brother, I shoot 3 inch and it does so well I don’t doubt your luck with 2 3/4 if you’re shooting 40 and in. We diver hunt a lot so I buy cases of 3 inch and occasionally take longer shots on puddlers, very few cripples, boss just works, wish I switched sooner I’d probably have a lot more bling on the lanyard, I’m convinced every cripple has a band😂
I bought a case of 1 1/2oz boss #4’s and after pattering them, I wish I wouldn’t have bought a case. I patterned some turkey loads the same day and the 1 1/2oz boss kicked as much or more than some of the 1 5/8oz, 1 3/4oz, 1 7/8oz and 2 oz turkey loads!
They do kick. But I didn't think they were quite that bad. I wouldn't want to shoot a whole box of them though. Keep in mind you'll probably hunt with more layers on that will take edge off. I definitely prefer the 2.75" though. Much friendlier round. No recoil issues all there. The 3" 1.5 is more than I want for most hunts.
I've used Boss in my SxS 16 ga . It does wonderful with #4 shot on Mallards etc. My son uses Boss in 12 ga 2.75 inch #5 shot in his Browning Auto 5 and it kills ducks very dead.
Hi, I’m shooting for the first time soon through a o/u 16 gauge I just bought. What shell would you recommend for a beginner worried about recoil just looking to shoot the odd rabbit?👍🏴
I am using shorty 12 gauge 3/5 original Boss this season along with a couple of boxes of #5 and a couple boxes of 3" #3s Boss from last year. Very happy with their performance and don't feel like i want to spend more on the Warchiefs. Thanks for you excellent reviews!
Thank you so much! It's a great step to help the channel be able to do more. Get the free 2 week trial, it can help you fix anything that might be in jeopardy within minutes.
I wonder what the shot stringing comparison would look like between the 2. I think that's probably the real story. I'm not sure how one would go testing that or if even slo-mo camera work would be able to pick that up, but I'm sure we all know a moving target and a fixed plane target are pretty different. What I mean is those pellets are not all hitting the target simultaneously, so if that target is moving, the pattern reflected on the paper isn't necessarily what it would look like on a moving target. Difficult to test I imagine. Either way you're doing great things bro, and i totally hear you on the western PA duck hunting style.
Check out these two videos Joel did. Best work ever done on the subject. th-cam.com/video/fac-03JF3GA/w-d-xo.html& th-cam.com/video/r-MHcpMgPsg/w-d-xo.html
@@eduffy4937 i guess it depends. I don’t shoot anything but steel #4’s at everything. Strange I can’t find a load heavier than 1 3/8” for steel 4’s, but the velocity gets way up there in a 3.5” shell. I can’t use anything larger than 4 shot, and no lead, where I hunt. So i shoot #4 waterfowl loads at pretty much anything. Turns out to be a great long range load on grey squirrels. Apparently #4 bismuth beats steel #2 even if it’s got about 30% faster velocity. So now I am hunting for bismuth loads on sale. Apparently 2 3/4” boss bismuth has better ballistics than 3.5” steel
Again another great vid. test. Because of you I reached out to Boss about the lack of or to say the leased the absence of the word BISMUTH on their site. They describe their shot as "copper-plated" shot. Thats it. So waiting to hear back form Boss. Their products seem amazing and couldn't wait to try them but when I went to order and realized they never use the word BISMUTH. ??? I asked if it was a trademark name or something else. Keep on testing and I'll keep watching.
I have no idea about the bismuth wording. They used to have the word all over the website. I guess they do are doing TSS these days too. I checked the product listing for the warcheif and it says bismuth very clearly.
Really enjoy the videos! I’m wanting to buy a muller choke this year but don’t know which one I want. I’m shooting Boss 2.75 #5s and I’d like to see you test the decoy, passing, and ufo chokes with boss 5s. Again love the content!!
Thank you so much! I think the 3/5 choke test is probably going to give about the same results as the straight 5s. Since they are mostly 5s. You could probably go by that. Ultimately it comes down to how far do you plan to shoot from I think.
Excellent video. I will say that in my own experience, the #5 bismuth just cant handle longer shots on geese. Ive bumped up to #4’s bismuth. But due to this terrible yr, haven’t really shot at geese, let alone a couple of ducks.
Awesome! Case orders are a little cheaper, I've not seen any coupons or discount codes or anything like that. I always recommend you shoot a box before a case, to make sure it does the job you have planned for it, in case you want another size, payload, shell type, etc.@@toplcame
Loves your videos buddy! Sorry to hear about your account. I live up in Canada would love to try out the boss shells one day they unfortunately don’t sell them up here
Man these videos is almost making me regret buying 5 cases of the legacy 3/5, 4, and 5 for this season. No not 5 cases of each but in all with those shot sizes. I generally hunt teal and woodies with number #5's mallards with #4's and 3/5 for my geese and diver duck hunts. Guess I'll try some of these warchiefs next year
You know, for regular range hunts, the Warchief does not gain you much. It's engineered to be a range extending load. I don't think you are at any disadvantage with the legacy shells for regular ranges. You could maybe use legacy #4 with a XF choke and at 35 yards get the same pattern as #4 Warchief with an IC choke. Its that kind of thing. Now if you are hunting at 50+ yards, then yea, the Warcheif is a leg up. That video is on the way too. But for the average hunting scenario, the legacy is great.
@TheNewHuntersGuide well if you hunt divers like I do religiously then you know my shot are 30+ all day long. Especially for goldeneye buffy's and Canvasbacks. They don't land often and when they do its at distance. Mostly flybys
@TheNewHuntersGuide I'll try a few boxes out and see how they perform but like I said I've already got 5 cases so next year hopefully they don't go up in price to much and I'll shoot exclusively warchief shells. Atleast for my diver hunts anyways
I’d pass on that test. It might work for the UFO, but it likely won’t for regular turkey chokes. I couldn’t break 70 with 3” 5’s using a Carlsons 660, 679, 690, or cremator LR (which was actually the best performer). I think the legacy could be choked down more with conventional chokes. Warchief doesn’t seem to want to go much past Full choke. Oh well.
I have found the Muller UFO is too tight for the #4 boss load this is why the bad pattern efficiency. Got to shoot the passing choke for #4... UFO throws #5 at a high efficiency.
Good job. I enjoy your reviews. You do a great service to consumers. I wish you would do some tests with the manufactures chokes in chotguns when testing different shells. I refuse to pay 2K and above for a shotgun and then pay over 100 for an aftermarket choke.
Thanks. Usually when you spend that much for the shotgun, the chokes are fine. If it's rated for what you shoot. But unfortunately I don't have a vault of different shotguns I can test. Yet.
I like this channel ,he answers the questions we have without the bullshit and frills. Doesn't have some jackass personality and science based . Thank you I enjoy all your videos
@@TheNewHuntersGuide in response to your boss 2 3/4 versus 3 inch shell. a fellow Pennsylvanian not far from you and a taxidermist. My opinion from what I see skinning boatloads of birds out each year. Not a sportsman's skinning job a taxidermist skinning job ,taking out the wing bones,neck ,head feet etc. There's way too many guys shooting large bbs at birds . You do not need to shoot a size 2 steel shot at a mallard or scoter or bufflehead . Over compensating. You can't get it through guys heads. They buy cheap shells and end up needing more than one to kill them . Bigger shot size blows the feathers all to hell for mounting. And doesn't give a consistent kill. The bismuth and tungsten makes a lot smaller hole and you've got way more pellets. I liked how you didn't look where on the paper the shell is shooting rather where the densist 30 inch circle is at and count from there. Here in pa we got bad duck hunting . Chances are that duck has seen 3 spreads that day and 30 all season . We have to shoot far and shoot dense patterns to get the birds. This isn't Arkansas or California. People will complain that it isn't duck hunting if your not bringing the birds close . But also the same guys never patterned there gun or understand ballistics like your showing. I like it keep up the good work and videos. One thing people are missing I see from my perspective as a taxidermist is that you don't need to be penetrating 4 inches of gel. You need to only.penetrate an inch of skull or inch of breast to the heart or lungs or break a wing bone or spine etc. If you got 20 random pellets in 20 inch circle that bird is either dead or knocked down for a follow up shot. If you know your gun and ammo you can make some really good shots most other hunters won't make .
A pellet to the head or neck or heart is dead , regardless if it's a size bb or 2 or 4 or 5s . It doesn't matter the species or area. Shooting through a few down feathers doesn't make a difference. I personally am hunting with 4s and 5s bismuth . Boss of course
boss should make the comparrison fair , and actually use the correct shot wad in the 3" shell instead of using the same wad in both 2 3/4 and 3" shells , leaving pellets laying against the hull , and streaking down the barrel unprotected by the wad , wasting shot on pattern deformation may as well use the 2 3/4 load
That may have been the case with the legacy BOSS but not the Warchief. They developed new wads. I've taken them apart and confirmed it in my other video.
Thank you for your videos!! Could you make a similar comparison for 20 gauge? Boss 20 gauge 3" #5 warchief vs Boss 20 Gauge 2 3/4" MAG 7/8oz Shotshells (legacy)... I feel it is more detrimental to know for the 20 gauge folks on what is the gain for the 3".
Great video. I think a comparison video between warchief and Hevi-xii would be really interesting. Hevi 4 and 6 vs Boss 2,3,4,5. It would be really interesting to see how the density and shot count effects overall performance.
George, loved the video! That is some terrific performance. I do not know much about your model of shotgun but it seems very nice. I’m in the market for a new shotgun and an older guy. I really like what I’ve seen in the Mossberg 835. (I have a couple 870’s so that’s where i’m coming from here) how do you feel it handles in recoil comparatively and are factory rifled deer barrels available. Give a little insight to reliability for you etc…. I appreciate your opinion
Thanks so much! I actually did a whole video on the shotgun th-cam.com/video/sSiyLExy4pI/w-d-xo.html I am a big fan. Its a great all around shotgun and shoots much softer than the pumps I've tried. I wouldn't go for 3.5" gun personally. 3" loads provide more power and recoil than I have any use for. I'd never shoot a 3.5". But this gun is great.
I don’t know if you noticed this but between the #4 shells the 3”, which did worse in pattern efficiency was the one that got jammed. Idk if that coincidence or not but maybe could have had a defect or something that affected the pattern
If you have any interest in hearing about the very beginning of the beta testing and field testing of non-toxic shot with the federal wildlife services in 1972-1974 let me know. I have been documenting my uncle’s experience and participation of the blind studies and have some of the very first beta steel shells that were tested in 1972. It is a really interesting untold story about the field testing of steel shot that started in the 70’s. Long before the mandate and most hunters knew about it.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide well, for instance the stinger is a lighter payload so velocities are boosted slightly(reportedly), but I'd be curious to see actual recoil energy compared to the 2.75" shorty, and also gel penetration comparison with it. Think of it as a light, medium, heavy comparison. I like #6 bismuth for ducks. Most folks say "it's way too small" for big ducks but my records indicate it works better since you're saturating a target with many more pellets, thus breaking down many more vital systems. 1.5" of gel penetration is "the standard" for waterfowl, but thats with the golden pellet train of thought. Wings, brains, legs, and spinal vertebrae are nowhere near 1.5" deep. Many hits on target always wins against fewer in my book.
@eduffy4937 hmm, I wonder what their plans are for the stinger. Will it continue as a stand alone product line? If you wanted to send some shells I'd be happy to test them, but it will be awhile. I have done most of my recording for this season already. I might ask Boss what their big picture goal is for the stingers.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I think thier stingers are primarily marketed to upland hunter chasing pheasants, doves, chukkar, and quail. They're all smaller pellet sized offerings, but lower payload overall.
3 inch #2’s will not cycle through my beneli super black eagle 2. I have two of that model gun, I’ve tried them both one is brand new the other is broken in. They will cycle through my browning A-5 just fine. I’m not a fan of the this load or the price. Yes they are the warcheif’s. I just got them last week. Have tried it several times. 2$ a pop to find out the shells don’t work with the sbe 2
Anyway at some point you can do a generic test of how far 2.75 regular steel in #2 and BB are effective at killing distance? We blind hunt and keep our shots 40yd and less
What Payload and velocities are you most using? Shell length doesn't matter much, in fact often 2.75 works better. Less velocity with larger payloads are ideal.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide, 1-1/4 ounce mostly. If we order ammo we get 1-1/4 ounce if we get it off the shelf whatever we can find sometimes it’s 1-1/8 ounce
Great, those are about the exact specs of what I plan to test. That will be in 3" shells but it should perform at the same in 2.75 if the specs are the same. "Should" being the key word. @@justinferguson5451
There are often a lot of close shots with pheasant hunting. I'd probably go with a modified for pheasants. If you are using BOSS warchief, you probably want cylinder.
All I’m going to say ladies and gentlemen… I have shot the cheapest shit I could find at waterfowl for years. Me and my crowd are some damn good shooters, we had a few cripples and always thought fuck we must be making a few bad shots. We will occasionally take a 40 yard passing shot on black ducks or pins hauling ass taking there 9th circle and getting wary. Same result a bunch of dead ducks but a number of cripples. Never bought into the hype of tungsten and bismuth. Kept shooting super x and having too many cripples. I looked at the price of tungsten and said hell no. Covid hit and I said damn this bismuth isn’t too bad compared to steel fuck it I’ll try a case. Shot it one year we hunted super hard (work at a fire department so I’m fortunate to go a lot) my crews number if cripples dropped drastically. Everything stayed the same except the shells. If he was 20 yards or 50 yards we either missed or he folded (few cripples) I swear by the shit now. 3 inch 5 shot boss is all I shoot now, they go bang every time, they pattern great, they start me whatever unfortunate waterfowl comes in range. I could probably shoot it at 70 yards and have the same result, but I choose to behave like a grown up. Left some on the boat and they got rusted all to hell still went bang. Solid product solid company, they send you a nice bag with every case too. If you’re on the fence just try it. You get some canadas in close that 5 shot will roll em out. If anyone’s had similar results please let me know, also let me know if tungsten is even better, I probably won’t try it simply due to cost and boss working just fine, but still curious.
Hey George are you still using the Bismuth Bone Buster chokes? I know you’re using a Müller in this video. I just didn’t know if you had permanently converted
Well, the season hasn't started yet, and I don't really think in terms of what my full time choke is. It depends on the hunt and range. The Muller UFO is what I'll use for long range hunts for sure. For normal ranges, I'm not sure. Might be the Bone Buster, might be the Muller passing. Time will tell.
I've had some issues with the new war chiefs, i've been through about 100. Boss has kind of ignored it and blocked my review... not to happy. I had no issues with legacy Boss...
had quite a number of shells come out burnt/melted, cycling issues and many more crippled birds than normal. Now the last two could possibly be me/gun but after 100 shots over the last 18 days or so I'm ONLY seeing this issue with the war chief shells. None of those issues with the legacy shells. Only 100 shells and slightly different hunting conditions but it's what I'm seeing. shooting 28g SBE3 26" @@TheNewHuntersGuide
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Just got off the phone with Chris over at Benelli about the cycling issues and he said "I've been hearing that alot with those shells". referring to the new Boss shells.
Well that is crazy. I would contact BOSS. Though it seems predictable the gun would blame the ammo and the ammo will likely blame the gun. But I would still call BOSS on the phone @@erikcr80
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I did, they pretty much just said "thanks for the heads up". all other shells tested no cycling issues. Keep in mind it's not just cycling issues. That's my biggest complaint, it seems like they have a known issue and are attempting to cover it up and play it off. Not posting reviews unless they are 5 stars is pretty bad, its very deceptive and I'm not the only one.
You only shot one shell of each? I appreciate the effort to help inform us about these shells but only testing a certain shell one time isn't exactly scientific and any result shown could easily be an outlier.
This is real world testing, not a lab. I don't have a lab, or the resources or time to generate research that will stand up to peer reviewed journals. I'm out here testing something, because no one else is. And if you watch 20 or 40 of these test videos, you will see the results really do trend consistently each time a shell is used. repeating this test 100 times might make the data more statistically significant, but my experience is that it would not overturn the final results in my tests, most times.
Shotguns aren't meant to be shot like that. Unless you have a red dot, scope, or double bead, there isn't a great way to ensure aim. Point of impact is a product of body position. Unless you put the gun in a vice and just move the target after a few shots to ensure its center, using a rest just creates bad habits that I don't have the time to make and then break lol.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide when pattern testing you have to take the wobble out of your aim for consistency in shot per shot. If you wobble a little left the pattern will be left. On the next, if you wobble a little right the pattern can be off set right. If you use a rest. It will be consistent. Bead on center every time. I pattern test my own. I’m not lying to you. 😂
@@TheNewHuntersGuide bad habits??? you are not bird hunting. You are pattern testing. Which means same POA in order to determine the exact point of impact. You can’t do that with a rifle or a shotgun for the same reasons. Wobble.
But none of that matters if the paper is large enough to catch the entire pattern. You can make aim better or the target bigger, and we've done the second.@@Meh-hr7gq
That consistency doesn't matter here. We are grabbing the densest part of the pattern where it hits the paper. A few inches high or left makes do difference, the paper is massive. Catching a 30" circle is easy. I shoot so many chokes and ammos in a range day, POA and POI are constantly in flux.@@Meh-hr7gq
Then people complain it's too short and I'm not explaining the context and nuance. I used to make them shorter but people asked for more. But TH-cam meets us in the middle with a skip button.
Been waiting for this one. I bought the 3’ 3/5s a few days ago so I’m happy to see the results of this. You’re the man, George! Wish I could like this video twice. Your hard work isn’t going unnoticed. Cheers and give ‘em hell this year!
Thank you so much! I've been looking forward to do this teat. Rushed it forward as soon as I got the first of the 3" shells
I know you said you’ve done boss test with different chokes but do you think there is any merit to trying some different chokes (Mueller UFO/Carlson/Kicks) with the warchiefs. Would be interested to see if the UFO is in fact the best for these. Whatever the results, that choke should sponsor you bc I will buy it instantly pending those results. Thanks again and looking forward to your videos throughout duck season. Cheers from TX!
Thanks so much. I've tested Carlson's but not Kicks. The problem is that most choke companies that make specialty chokes are not trying to make the tightest long range choke possible. Even if they say they are. That is also not the most useful choke most of the time because few people hunt mostly long range in the real world. So tests like that are hard to do. Though I would happily do more if I could get more chokes.@@OG_Ghost
Yeah sorry, 30/40 yds is right where I want to be/ interested in. Everything else I just don’t feel is an ethical shot - so I’m usually shooting modified chokes for decoying birds and some closer passing shots…if that makes sense. Just a thought, I’m a fan regardless and have been sharing your videos with friends. Keep doing what you’re doing brother. We appreciate all the insight and test that most of us simply can’t do. Best
Thank you so much! So I would say most chokes with the Warchief is going to be great. If anything you may want to use more open chokes, this stuff patterns tight!@@OG_Ghost
When I switched to Bismuth I went from 3” Winchester drylock#3 as my preferred steel load to the #5 2 3/4” bismuth load. My dead right there tally doubled out of my Winchester Select O/U. Recoil was much easier on my shoulder and middle knuckle bruising on my middle finger disappeared. Frankly the bismuth killed like the lead loads of my youth.
And at normal range, that should be all you need!
Love the 5 shot bismuth brother, I shoot 3 inch and it does so well I don’t doubt your luck with 2 3/4 if you’re shooting 40 and in. We diver hunt a lot so I buy cases of 3 inch and occasionally take longer shots on puddlers, very few cripples, boss just works, wish I switched sooner I’d probably have a lot more bling on the lanyard, I’m convinced every cripple has a band😂
I bought a case of 1 1/2oz boss #4’s and after pattering them, I wish I wouldn’t have bought a case. I patterned some turkey loads the same day and the 1 1/2oz boss kicked as much or more than some of the 1 5/8oz, 1 3/4oz, 1 7/8oz and 2 oz turkey loads!
They do kick. But I didn't think they were quite that bad. I wouldn't want to shoot a whole box of them though. Keep in mind you'll probably hunt with more layers on that will take edge off. I definitely prefer the 2.75" though. Much friendlier round. No recoil issues all there. The 3" 1.5 is more than I want for most hunts.
I've used Boss in my SxS 16 ga . It does wonderful with #4 shot on Mallards etc. My son uses Boss in 12 ga 2.75 inch #5 shot in his Browning Auto 5 and it kills ducks very dead.
Thank you sir for sharing!
If you could we would love to see the Boss Legacy 3in #3 testing with the muller chokes!!
Thanks, I definitely need to teat the BOSS legacy with Muller chokes, somehow I never got around to it. Hoping to do it this summer.
Follow up shots are key in waterfowling. Less recoil=better shooting, and less recoil offers faster follow up shots.
I agree totally!
Hi, I’m shooting for the first time soon through a o/u 16 gauge I just bought. What shell would you recommend for a beginner worried about recoil just looking to shoot the odd rabbit?👍🏴
@@GG-jw8pt any target load in size 7.5 will do just fine for rabbits. 16 GA does not have much for recoil even in its most "manly" offerings.
@@eduffy4937
My local shop only does
‘Shot size 5 / 28 gms’
Is that good? What else could I hunt with them?
@@GG-jw8pt grouse, pheasants, rabbits, and if you get non toxic shot, waterfowl is all fair game. Where in the world are you located?
I am using shorty 12 gauge 3/5 original Boss this season along with a couple of boxes of #5 and a couple boxes of 3" #3s Boss from last year. Very happy with their performance and don't feel like i want to spend more on the Warchiefs. Thanks for you excellent reviews!
No reason to spend more unless you want the long range benefits, which aren't really needed for many situations.
Glad you got your data back George, great info as always man, didn't get notified again, God bless you and go get them in the marsh.
Thanks so much Jeff!
Pleased you have a real sponsor, well done. I will look into them.
Thank you so much! It's a great step to help the channel be able to do more. Get the free 2 week trial, it can help you fix anything that might be in jeopardy within minutes.
I wonder what the shot stringing comparison would look like between the 2. I think that's probably the real story. I'm not sure how one would go testing that or if even slo-mo camera work would be able to pick that up, but I'm sure we all know a moving target and a fixed plane target are pretty different. What I mean is those pellets are not all hitting the target simultaneously, so if that target is moving, the pattern reflected on the paper isn't necessarily what it would look like on a moving target. Difficult to test I imagine. Either way you're doing great things bro, and i totally hear you on the western PA duck hunting style.
Check out these two videos Joel did. Best work ever done on the subject.
th-cam.com/video/fac-03JF3GA/w-d-xo.html&
th-cam.com/video/r-MHcpMgPsg/w-d-xo.html
I’ll take significantly less recoil over moderate increase in pattern density
I agree whole heartedly!
2.75", whether it be slugs or birds hot, or buckshot, have ALWAYS out performed 3" in every gun I've owned.
My previous test data supports that. But the buffer material must help keep those pellets together.
I think it’s got something to do with lower velocity.
@@eduffy4937 i guess it depends. I don’t shoot anything but steel #4’s at everything. Strange I can’t find a load heavier than 1 3/8” for steel 4’s, but the velocity gets way up there in a 3.5” shell.
I can’t use anything larger than 4 shot, and no lead, where I hunt. So i shoot #4 waterfowl loads at pretty much anything. Turns out to be a great long range load on grey squirrels.
Apparently #4 bismuth beats steel #2 even if it’s got about 30% faster velocity. So now I am hunting for bismuth loads on sale.
Apparently 2 3/4” boss bismuth has better ballistics than 3.5” steel
Best channel on TH-cam.
Hey thanks so much!
3" shells used to be called magnums. They were intended for those folks who wanted to reach targets at a longer range. Few people are that good.
Again another great vid. test. Because of you I reached out to Boss about the lack of or to say the leased the absence of the word BISMUTH on their site. They describe their shot as "copper-plated" shot. Thats it. So waiting to hear back form Boss. Their products seem amazing and couldn't wait to try them but when I went to order and realized they never use the word BISMUTH. ??? I asked if it was a trademark name or something else. Keep on testing and I'll keep watching.
I have no idea about the bismuth wording. They used to have the word all over the website. I guess they do are doing TSS these days too. I checked the product listing for the warcheif and it says bismuth very clearly.
Used to be branded "boss bismuth"
@@eduffy4937 that was before they added tss to their lineup. The ammo is still labeled bismuth.
Enjoy all your videos and thanks for taking the time to get the data that you do! I'm also from Western PA, the Washington area. What area are you in?
Thanks! I'm in Westmoreland County. Out past murrysville
Incredible content! Thank you so much!
Thank you, for watching!
Really enjoy the videos! I’m wanting to buy a muller choke this year but don’t know which one I want. I’m shooting Boss 2.75 #5s and I’d like to see you test the decoy, passing, and ufo chokes with boss 5s. Again love the content!!
Thank you so much! I think the 3/5 choke test is probably going to give about the same results as the straight 5s. Since they are mostly 5s. You could probably go by that. Ultimately it comes down to how far do you plan to shoot from I think.
Another great video, George!
Thank you so much!
Excellent video.
I will say that in my own experience, the #5 bismuth just cant handle longer shots on geese. Ive bumped up to #4’s bismuth. But due to this terrible yr, haven’t really shot at geese, let alone a couple of ducks.
I agree with you. I might use 3s for geese even.
Thanks for your hard work and time!
Thanks for watching!
I love this info and I'm going to switch to boss. Are there any discounts for ordering by the case?
Awesome! Case orders are a little cheaper, I've not seen any coupons or discount codes or anything like that. I always recommend you shoot a box before a case, to make sure it does the job you have planned for it, in case you want another size, payload, shell type, etc.@@toplcame
Loves your videos buddy! Sorry to hear about your account. I live up in Canada would love to try out the boss shells one day they unfortunately don’t sell them up here
Wow, it seems crazy to me they don't ship there. They aren't far from the boarder either. There has to be a way to solve that lol
Man these videos is almost making me regret buying 5 cases of the legacy 3/5, 4, and 5 for this season. No not 5 cases of each but in all with those shot sizes. I generally hunt teal and woodies with number #5's mallards with #4's and 3/5 for my geese and diver duck hunts. Guess I'll try some of these warchiefs next year
You know, for regular range hunts, the Warchief does not gain you much. It's engineered to be a range extending load. I don't think you are at any disadvantage with the legacy shells for regular ranges. You could maybe use legacy #4 with a XF choke and at 35 yards get the same pattern as #4 Warchief with an IC choke. Its that kind of thing. Now if you are hunting at 50+ yards, then yea, the Warcheif is a leg up. That video is on the way too. But for the average hunting scenario, the legacy is great.
@TheNewHuntersGuide well if you hunt divers like I do religiously then you know my shot are 30+ all day long. Especially for goldeneye buffy's and Canvasbacks. They don't land often and when they do its at distance. Mostly flybys
Well, yea, the warcheif is a benefit there for sure. I mostly jump hunt, and any shot taken within 40 yards is hard fought.@@houstonjohnson7703
@TheNewHuntersGuide I'll try a few boxes out and see how they perform but like I said I've already got 5 cases so next year hopefully they don't go up in price to much and I'll shoot exclusively warchief shells. Atleast for my diver hunts anyways
As usual You make excellent videos Sir. Well done 👏
Thanks so much! Glad you like them!
I still think it would be a good video to test out the new #5 shells as a turkey load. I have to think it’s getting pretty dang close to 100 in 10”.
That is on my list actually!
I’d pass on that test. It might work for the UFO, but it likely won’t for regular turkey chokes. I couldn’t break 70 with 3” 5’s using a Carlsons 660, 679, 690, or cremator LR (which was actually the best performer). I think the legacy could be choked down more with conventional chokes. Warchief doesn’t seem to want to go much past Full choke. Oh well.
I have found the Muller UFO is too tight for the #4 boss load this is why the bad pattern efficiency. Got to shoot the passing choke for #4... UFO throws #5 at a high efficiency.
You know, I've just been finding #4s to have the lowest pattern efficientcy with all chokes.
Thanks for the testing and reviews. Do you have any starling/house sparrow/pudge on hunting videos in the works?
I have actually not pursued anything that small, though I'd like to. A little dove hunting but that's about it so far.
Good job. I enjoy your reviews. You do a great service to consumers. I wish you would do some tests with the manufactures chokes in chotguns when testing different shells. I refuse to pay 2K and above for a shotgun and then pay over 100 for an aftermarket choke.
Thanks. Usually when you spend that much for the shotgun, the chokes are fine. If it's rated for what you shoot. But unfortunately I don't have a vault of different shotguns I can test. Yet.
I like this channel ,he answers the questions we have without the bullshit and frills. Doesn't have some jackass personality and science based . Thank you I enjoy all your videos
Thank you so much for the support!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide in response to your boss 2 3/4 versus 3 inch shell. a fellow Pennsylvanian not far from you and a taxidermist. My opinion from what I see skinning boatloads of birds out each year. Not a sportsman's skinning job a taxidermist skinning job ,taking out the wing bones,neck ,head feet etc. There's way too many guys shooting large bbs at birds . You do not need to shoot a size 2 steel shot at a mallard or scoter or bufflehead . Over compensating. You can't get it through guys heads. They buy cheap shells and end up needing more than one to kill them . Bigger shot size blows the feathers all to hell for mounting. And doesn't give a consistent kill. The bismuth and tungsten makes a lot smaller hole and you've got way more pellets. I liked how you didn't look where on the paper the shell is shooting rather where the densist 30 inch circle is at and count from there.
Here in pa we got bad duck hunting . Chances are that duck has seen 3 spreads that day and 30 all season . We have to shoot far and shoot dense patterns to get the birds. This isn't Arkansas or California. People will complain that it isn't duck hunting if your not bringing the birds close . But also the same guys never patterned there gun or understand ballistics like your showing. I like it keep up the good work and videos. One thing people are missing I see from my perspective as a taxidermist is that you don't need to be penetrating 4 inches of gel. You need to only.penetrate an inch of skull or inch of breast to the heart or lungs or break a wing bone or spine etc. If you got 20 random pellets in 20 inch circle that bird is either dead or knocked down for a follow up shot. If you know your gun and ammo you can make some really good shots most other hunters won't make .
A pellet to the head or neck or heart is dead , regardless if it's a size bb or 2 or 4 or 5s . It doesn't matter the species or area. Shooting through a few down feathers doesn't make a difference. I personally am hunting with 4s and 5s bismuth . Boss of course
boss should make the comparrison fair , and actually use the correct shot wad in the 3" shell instead of using the same wad in both 2 3/4 and 3" shells , leaving pellets laying against the hull , and streaking down the barrel unprotected by the wad , wasting shot on pattern deformation may as well use the 2 3/4 load
That may have been the case with the legacy BOSS but not the Warchief. They developed new wads. I've taken them apart and confirmed it in my other video.
Thank you for your videos!!
Could you make a similar comparison for 20 gauge? Boss 20 gauge 3" #5 warchief vs Boss 20 Gauge 2 3/4" MAG 7/8oz Shotshells (legacy)... I feel it is more detrimental to know for the 20 gauge folks on what is the gain for the 3".
I hope to! I don't have a 20 gauge on hand, but am planning to get one soon.
Appreciate the time & effort george. Have you tested any sub-gauge bore sizes, like 20 & 28?
I have not actually. Mostly because I don't have any. But I've been considering adding a 20 to lineup next year. We shall see!
Great video.
I think a comparison video between warchief and Hevi-xii would be really interesting. Hevi 4 and 6 vs Boss 2,3,4,5. It would be really interesting to see how the density and shot count effects overall performance.
Already recorded! Gimme a few weeks to get it posted.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide awesome. Looking forward to it
Good stuff 👍👍🦆🦆
Glad you enjoyed it
George, loved the video! That is some terrific performance. I do not know much about your model of shotgun but it seems very nice. I’m in the market for a new shotgun and an older guy. I really like what I’ve seen in the Mossberg 835. (I have a couple 870’s so that’s where i’m coming from here) how do you feel it handles in recoil comparatively and are factory rifled deer barrels available.
Give a little insight to reliability for you etc…. I appreciate your opinion
I guess i should add that i plan on extensive use of heavy 2 .75” and 3” buckshot loads as well if that bares any significance.
Thanks so much! I actually did a whole video on the shotgun th-cam.com/video/sSiyLExy4pI/w-d-xo.html
I am a big fan. Its a great all around shotgun and shoots much softer than the pumps I've tried. I wouldn't go for 3.5" gun personally. 3" loads provide more power and recoil than I have any use for. I'd never shoot a 3.5". But this gun is great.
I don’t know if you noticed this but between the #4 shells the 3”, which did worse in pattern efficiency was the one that got jammed. Idk if that coincidence or not but maybe could have had a defect or something that affected the pattern
That is a good thought. Might have been a bad shell. I will be doing more tests with the 4s. I'll keep an eye out to see if they perform better.
Why is the number of pellets different on the chart showed in the beginning to the one at 9:18?
Because I made a typo in the first one. The second one is accurate.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide ok! Thanks for the clarification.
If you have any interest in hearing about the very beginning of the beta testing and field testing of non-toxic shot with the federal wildlife services in 1972-1974 let me know. I have been documenting my uncle’s experience and participation of the blind studies and have some of the very first beta steel shells that were tested in 1972. It is a really interesting untold story about the field testing of steel shot that started in the 70’s. Long before the mandate and most hunters knew about it.
I would be interested! That history fascinates me.
@@TheNewHuntersGuideI sent a message via your site so we can connect.
George, can you review some of the 2.75" stingers? I will buy some and have them shipped to you.
I can probably do that. What kind of testing are you thinking about?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide well, for instance the stinger is a lighter payload so velocities are boosted slightly(reportedly), but I'd be curious to see actual recoil energy compared to the 2.75" shorty, and also gel penetration comparison with it. Think of it as a light, medium, heavy comparison. I like #6 bismuth for ducks. Most folks say "it's way too small" for big ducks but my records indicate it works better since you're saturating a target with many more pellets, thus breaking down many more vital systems. 1.5" of gel penetration is "the standard" for waterfowl, but thats with the golden pellet train of thought. Wings, brains, legs, and spinal vertebrae are nowhere near 1.5" deep. Many hits on target always wins against fewer in my book.
@eduffy4937 hmm, I wonder what their plans are for the stinger. Will it continue as a stand alone product line? If you wanted to send some shells I'd be happy to test them, but it will be awhile. I have done most of my recording for this season already. I might ask Boss what their big picture goal is for the stingers.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I think thier stingers are primarily marketed to upland hunter chasing pheasants, doves, chukkar, and quail. They're all smaller pellet sized offerings, but lower payload overall.
What distance? Were those counts in a 30” circle like you usually use? 96% and 99% aren't realistic.
These were all at 40 yards in a 30" circle. This ammo, gun, choke combo will do it all day. I've shot several videos so far with the same results.
3 inch #2’s will not cycle through my beneli super black eagle 2. I have two of that model gun, I’ve tried them both one is brand new the other is broken in. They will cycle through my browning A-5 just fine. I’m not a fan of the this load or the price. Yes they are the warcheif’s. I just got them last week. Have tried it several times. 2$ a pop to find out the shells don’t work with the sbe 2
Well that is strange. I have no idea what might be the cause of that. Been working well for me.
Random somewhat unrelated question. Do you know if it’s possible/ok to shoot brass shells out of modern semiautomatic shotguns?
I would check with your gun manufacture. I don't know enough to risk a guess on that one.
How about 20guage Boss Warchief and Legacy comparisons?
I don't have a 20 gauge. But hopefully soon.
Anyway at some point you can do a generic test of how far 2.75 regular steel in #2 and BB are effective at killing distance? We blind hunt and keep our shots 40yd and less
What Payload and velocities are you most using? Shell length doesn't matter much, in fact often 2.75 works better. Less velocity with larger payloads are ideal.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide, 1-1/4 ounce mostly. If we order ammo we get 1-1/4 ounce if we get it off the shelf whatever we can find sometimes it’s 1-1/8 ounce
1400-1550
Great, those are about the exact specs of what I plan to test. That will be in 3" shells but it should perform at the same in 2.75 if the specs are the same. "Should" being the key word. @@justinferguson5451
Awesome, sounds good. I’m sure it’ll be pretty close there’s always some inconsistency between shooters
Great Video 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Thanks so much!
Thank you for the 10minute Aura advert....
Thank you for putting up with it to help fund the channel and keep it on the air!
Do you have an opinion on what choke tube for pheasant hunting
I plan on using # 5 boss shells
There are often a lot of close shots with pheasant hunting. I'd probably go with a modified for pheasants. If you are using BOSS warchief, you probably want cylinder.
Is the added price of the warchief worth iit over the legacy rounds? Going to order some 2.75 3/5's soon.
It depends on how you hunt. Short range over decoys? Probably not. Long range, absolutely.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide that's kinda how I was thinking. Most shots are sub 40 yards.
All I’m going to say ladies and gentlemen… I have shot the cheapest shit I could find at waterfowl for years. Me and my crowd are some damn good shooters, we had a few cripples and always thought fuck we must be making a few bad shots. We will occasionally take a 40 yard passing shot on black ducks or pins hauling ass taking there 9th circle and getting wary. Same result a bunch of dead ducks but a number of cripples. Never bought into the hype of tungsten and bismuth. Kept shooting super x and having too many cripples. I looked at the price of tungsten and said hell no. Covid hit and I said damn this bismuth isn’t too bad compared to steel fuck it I’ll try a case. Shot it one year we hunted super hard (work at a fire department so I’m fortunate to go a lot) my crews number if cripples dropped drastically. Everything stayed the same except the shells. If he was 20 yards or 50 yards we either missed or he folded (few cripples) I swear by the shit now. 3 inch 5 shot boss is all I shoot now, they go bang every time, they pattern great, they start me whatever unfortunate waterfowl comes in range. I could probably shoot it at 70 yards and have the same result, but I choose to behave like a grown up. Left some on the boat and they got rusted all to hell still went bang. Solid product solid company, they send you a nice bag with every case too. If you’re on the fence just try it. You get some canadas in close that 5 shot will roll em out. If anyone’s had similar results please let me know, also let me know if tungsten is even better, I probably won’t try it simply due to cost and boss working just fine, but still curious.
There is different count from 2 different shot size 2 3/4 1 1/4 n 3 1 1/2
They only make warchief in 1.5, at least this year.
If I have the same brand and shame shells in 2 3/4 inch and 3 inch but both have a 1 oz load of shot, does the 3 inch shoot better?
Only if one uses a different wad or other components. Same components and payload will not be impacted by the extra quarter inch of plastic hull.
Test an unported jebs .690 please!
Why not go as tight as they go at 0.685?
Hey George are you still using the Bismuth Bone Buster chokes? I know you’re using a Müller in this video. I just didn’t know if you had permanently converted
Well, the season hasn't started yet, and I don't really think in terms of what my full time choke is. It depends on the hunt and range. The Muller UFO is what I'll use for long range hunts for sure. For normal ranges, I'm not sure. Might be the Bone Buster, might be the Muller passing. Time will tell.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide are you getting better patterns out of the muller passing than the bone buster ER?
That test is here: th-cam.com/video/a6fPj6dmK8s/w-d-xo.html& @@nathanielchoate69
I've had some issues with the new war chiefs, i've been through about 100. Boss has kind of ignored it and blocked my review... not to happy. I had no issues with legacy Boss...
What issues are you seeing?
had quite a number of shells come out burnt/melted, cycling issues and many more crippled birds than normal. Now the last two could possibly be me/gun but after 100 shots over the last 18 days or so I'm ONLY seeing this issue with the war chief shells. None of those issues with the legacy shells. Only 100 shells and slightly different hunting conditions but it's what I'm seeing. shooting 28g SBE3 26" @@TheNewHuntersGuide
@@TheNewHuntersGuide Just got off the phone with Chris over at Benelli about the cycling issues and he said "I've been hearing that alot with those shells". referring to the new Boss shells.
Well that is crazy. I would contact BOSS. Though it seems predictable the gun would blame the ammo and the ammo will likely blame the gun. But I would still call BOSS on the phone @@erikcr80
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I did, they pretty much just said "thanks for the heads up". all other shells tested no cycling issues. Keep in mind it's not just cycling issues. That's my biggest complaint, it seems like they have a known issue and are attempting to cover it up and play it off. Not posting reviews unless they are 5 stars is pretty bad, its very deceptive and I'm not the only one.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks so much!
Just think of the performance of the 3.5 ". How can I get some ?
Ha, They would also kick like a turkey load for sure!
Was the recoil very bad on the 2 3/4 #5
Very mild on the 2.75" shells. But the 3" definitely had some bite.
Boss needs 3.5” and I’m in😅
Naw, the recoil of the 3" loaded to 1 5/8 oz is plenty! Better off practicing more and using 2.75 shells.
Wow I had to pay $2.20 per shell
It's alot cheaper for program members, and free shipping.
You only shot one shell of each? I appreciate the effort to help inform us about these shells but only testing a certain shell one time isn't exactly scientific and any result shown could easily be an outlier.
This is real world testing, not a lab. I don't have a lab, or the resources or time to generate research that will stand up to peer reviewed journals. I'm out here testing something, because no one else is. And if you watch 20 or 40 of these test videos, you will see the results really do trend consistently each time a shell is used. repeating this test 100 times might make the data more statistically significant, but my experience is that it would not overturn the final results in my tests, most times.
Use a bench rest for all testing. Even shotgun. You have to be consistent
Shotguns aren't meant to be shot like that. Unless you have a red dot, scope, or double bead, there isn't a great way to ensure aim. Point of impact is a product of body position. Unless you put the gun in a vice and just move the target after a few shots to ensure its center, using a rest just creates bad habits that I don't have the time to make and then break lol.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide when pattern testing you have to take the wobble out of your aim for consistency in shot per shot. If you wobble a little left the pattern will be left. On the next, if you wobble a little right the pattern can be off set right. If you use a rest. It will be consistent. Bead on center every time. I pattern test my own. I’m not lying to you. 😂
@@TheNewHuntersGuide bad habits??? you are not bird hunting. You are pattern testing. Which means same POA in order to determine the exact point of impact. You can’t do that with a rifle or a shotgun for the same reasons. Wobble.
But none of that matters if the paper is large enough to catch the entire pattern. You can make aim better or the target bigger, and we've done the second.@@Meh-hr7gq
That consistency doesn't matter here. We are grabbing the densest part of the pattern where it hits the paper. A few inches high or left makes do difference, the paper is massive. Catching a 30" circle is easy. I shoot so many chokes and ammos in a range day, POA and POI are constantly in flux.@@Meh-hr7gq
you should try to condense this stuff, way to long for what your explaining
Then people complain it's too short and I'm not explaining the context and nuance. I used to make them shorter but people asked for more. But TH-cam meets us in the middle with a skip button.