Steel vs. Bismuth vs. TSS Waterfowl Ammo Tested | Kent, BOSS, Apex
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- This is a 3-way test of Steel, Bismuth, and TSS waterfowl hunting ammunition. In this review I pattern tested and ballistics gel tested new BOSS Warchief buffered bismuth, Kent Fasteel steel, and APEX TSS waterfowl ammo to find which is the most effective and the most cost-effective shells. I evaluated pattern density and gel penetration as well as the pricing to see how these three shells compare for hunting ducks and geese.
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I did this test with my Mossberg 940 Pro Waterfowl and three different choke tubes to try and get the best out of every load. I used a Carlson's Sporting Clays modified choke, Full choke, and a Muller UFO choke. This was done with proper eye and ear protection at a certified shooting range. BOSS and APEX provided some of the shells tested in this video at my request, and Carlsons and Muller provided the chokes, thanks to them for their support.#waterfowlhunting #duckhunting #goosehunting
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This channel is so underrated … I love it
Thank you so much! Tell those millions of people who are missing out lol.
If I had to pay 7 dollars a shell I would have to quit duck hunting. Good video
I would keep hunting. I just wouldn't hunt much...
TSS is absurd. Love the stuff and hope it becomes more economical in the future. I also love seeing the over shot card confetti when you shoot them.
It is amazing stuff, that is for sure. If they could cut the price in half, I might buy a box every season for special ops type hunts with long range jump shots.
I love these tests. Great job. I would’ve liked to have seen a #5 or even #6 bismuth as it would’ve have been similar in penetration to the steel, but with way more pellets in the pattern
Thanks so much!
My Tetras should be delivered today. I used your code several weeks ago when I ordered. The delay was on my end, getting the molds made for the custom fit. Thanks for what you do & keep it up George!
Awesome! Can't wait to hear how you like them after your first couple hunts!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide just wearing around the house they seem very comfortable. Our season down south doesn’t open until end of November so it will be a bit before I can field test them. Also switched to Boss Warchief for this season. Been shooting Muller chokes exclusively for 10+ years so no changes there! Glad hunters finally seem to be finding out about Muller, sporting clays shooters have been his big market for years.
I totally agree!@@miklm
George, you are top-notch. Thank you so much!
Than you so much!
You just sold me on the hearing thing. I can't wait to try that out
Thanks! Makes a huge difference!
Great video, I always enjoy the information you present. We know how good bismuth loads are, I would like to see you test these steel/TSS loads like HEVi X extreme or Apex steel/TSS. I would like to see the patterns and gel penetration. Also, if you're looking for more content, start testing these duplex loads, IE migra or Kent faststeel +. Even Remington brought back their duplex load. I shot that back in 96'. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! Duplex load testing is on the horizon!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide sweet! Def curious because it's the new marketing hype.
It is definitely some loud hype too!@@mdblem2
Very curious about apex tss/ steel vs war chief. I think the war chief might out perform it for range. Also curious about the migra stack steel range.
I love your channel. You answer so many questions I have but don’t have the equipment to find out.
Thanks so much! Glad I can help!
Been waiting on this one George! Great video and great work!
Thank you so much!
TSS is very effective for long distance hunting. Or larger game. No need to use it with ducks at "normal" distances. I was a bit surprised how good penetration #4 steel had. Temperature of the gel block might influenced. Gel should be close to 4°C.
Also id like to see test where there is duck skin and feather in front of the gel block. At british test feathers reduced more lead pellets penetration than steel pellets. It would be nice to have similar test to compare steel and bismuth. Preferably by using #4 bismuth and #3 steel.
The feathers test is coming!
I bought the Apex TSS 7.5 for late season pheasants that were flushing 50 yds out all the time and I patterned it at 50 yds I was amazed it went right through 3/8 thick rubber target paper holder when 3.5 in Turkey magnum #4 shot bounced off. That Apex tss is no joke but an ass beating of $$$
Yea, it is pricy! I have started using it since this test a little. I typically take 1 shell with me each time I go out and lead it into the gun as my first shell when I expect long range encounters. You never know how many shots you'll get on any hunt, so it helps to make the first one really count. I took 3 ducks with one TSS shell a few weeks ago. And on another day a nice pheasant. One box might last me a season using it this way. And I'm ok with that.
Great videos man! I really enjoy watching and getting real info!
Thank you so much!
Glad tetra finally gave you a sponsor.
I’ve had really good patterning and success with the Winchester super x in my Benelli nova, up to 10 ducks this season. I wouldn’t have even know it’s the best without you consistently talking about the need to pattern.
Do you have a spread sheet on your website of the different gel performances for all the shells you have tested?
Might be sacrilegious but you might want to give the muller choke series on the mvm show podcast a listen. It is very insightful on chokes and how velocity affects pattern.
Keep up the great work
Thanks so much! No such spreadsheet exists, but you aren't the first person to ask for it. I'll probably build it out sooner or later. I listened to those podcast episodes! I plan to do more testing in the future.
There was an even greater increase of penetration from boss to tss vs steel to boss. All three being more than adequate for ducks. I keep #9 tss on me while hunting. The paramount advantage it has over all other ammo is ethically finishing off cripples that fall out of range for bismuth or steel loads. I feel the black cloud tss is better for actually shooting ducks and geese because of the lower number of tss, and it’s still more than adequate without excessive number of shot.
Tell me more about the black cloud load you prefer.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide The Black cloud load I prefer is the black cloud tss 3/9 combination. In 12 or 20 gauge doesn’t matter. The Turkey loads I shoot are federal custom shop tss, and can shoot them through same choke with a crazy distance capability for finishing crippled birds. Usually the black cloud tss or these loads would do fine for extended ranges also.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I don’t think there is actually a quality tss load that should be used on ducks at close range. It’s actually hard to open up tss patterns at close range, but you can use a spreader tube to help and you still have dense pattern. I typically don’t put a tss load for a first shot unless I am hunting with youth or someone that hasn’t harvested many birds. In those cases I let them do the shooting first or at the same time at birds farther out. I do like having the option with an over/under to instantly select a barrel with a choke and load combination for extended ranges. Most of my birds are killed with Bismuth or Steel.
@@p.williamfox6417 is the 3/9 combo really any more effective than lower priced bismuth?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide I’m definitely not trying to persuade someone to buy expensive ammo. I really like Bismuth and I am expecting better performance on birds at longer ranges with the Boss War Chief loads. At the end of this season I will give you my honest opinion from what we see. The only thing is I don’t know why they are charging as much as they are for the buffering.
Deciding on whether or not Black Cloud tss is actually better/worth it or not has everything to do with Shooter, gun, choke, ammo, application, and finances. Even though there’s not as many tss pellets as a full load of tss pellets they still maintain a good pattern density and knock birds down solid at extended ranges. I My self will test ammo at various distances and if I see patterns that are sufficient And then I will field test it. If I find it works better than something else for a specific scenario it’s what I shoot. If I can. We owe it to the game we hunt and I like to see birds dropped dead. I sure appreciate the videos you do.
Thanks George I could not imagine what the tss would do to a decoyed duck at 15-25 yds , God bless you and go get them in the marsh.
Thanks Jeff, I bet it would be like a slug lol.
Dont buy tss though, its not worth the price. Boss #5's hammer ducks. after discovering #5 bismuth, i stopped hunting ducks with a 12 gauge.
@@michaelallen1953 I shoot boss #4's in 20ga at everything.
Hi George Love the work you put in all your testing . I do see a little bias toward Boss shells , ican see why ,used them think they are a very good shell but if not a Boss member they are very pricey. I wish you would do a test with new Kent Fast Steel + 2/4 duplex shot and Boss warchief 3/5 both using the Muller waterfowl passing choke. I believe you like what you see from the new Kent Fast Steel + . For the price wow
I'm Definitely biased towards, their performance across many tests has set me there. But I just got a box of the Fasteel+ so that test will happen!
i know the shits expensive. but black cloud TSS knocks them down with a modified choke at any range. the 3 and 9 shot works on geese out to 50 yards too
Steel 3s in that blend?
@@TheNewHuntersGuide yup. i usually carry a box of those and a box of steel or bismuth and i usually limit out on the TSS shells before i can open the other box. i’m not the best shot in the world but the Black cloud TSS shells sure help out a lot
Based on this test, why would anyone need more than an ounce of TSS #9 going 1550 fps for even turkey? Great job, George, as usual.
People want to be able take birds at 60-70. As someone who doesn’t, that’s why I went down to a 410 rather than pay for a bunch of expensive pellets I don’t need and that give me a wallop.
Absolutely correct. Actually less velocity Is better for turkey because you can get tighter patterns. Keep in mind the pellet counts were in a 30 not 10" circle. So while it would be a very potent turkey load, it's not as impressive as it seems. But it is cheaper and would work fine in a pinch!
I'm way too old to fathom why a so-called hunter would even consider shooting at a turkey beyond 40 yards.
I would love to see a video comparing boss and hevi xii to Black Cloud tss (the mixed steel and tss load offering from Federal).
Thank you for the idea!
Awesome test. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for watching!
I find hunt frequency is often the best dictator of what one should afford in terms of ammunition. If youre a guy like me thats out nearly every day during season, steel #3 is just fine for the whole season.if youre a guy who goes out to north dakota or another state that allows havest of a swan, tss #7 would be my first choice. Same goes for destination hunting. When traveling maybe once or twice a year to go on the years only trip id buy a case of boss #5s. Nor dirt cheap, but high quality and an increase on performance. If i were to take an expensivewaterfowl trip or hunting for chukkar or any other hardto get bird i can justify any price. He ammo on a trip is the least expensive part of the budget but has a huge difference on success.
Right on. It's all about how much the regular hunter shoots as well. To those who shoot a case a year, one price may be reasonable. To those who sheet 5 cases a year, that ammo may no longer be affordable. To him who shoots one box a year, why not make every shot count as much as possible.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide that's my view. I can afford to miss a few wood ducks and such since primarily it's our dominant duck up here in northern mn. Now if I drew a permit for a king eider or some other duck ill never have a second chance at I'm dumping the good stuff at em every shot. Any other ducks for me see Kent faststeel 2.75 shells. For wood ducks and teal the Kent upland faststeel in an ounce and an eighth load of #5 can't be beat, and it's much cheaper than the waterfowl version. Smacks em pretty good. Doesn't need to be "waterfowl ammo" to take ducks with. This upland steel shot really offers a hunter a great early duck load. I've smoked a few geese with it too. #5 is plenty of energy when you make head and neck hits, and lots of them. Waterfowlers tend to think you need larger pellets and "x" amount of penetration when in reality I need to penetrat a thin little neck, break wing bones, legs etc. Smalle4 shot for me is hands down the best option if shooting 35 yards and in.it causes all systems to fail. And at 13 dollars a box, I can do a lot more hunting for my dollar.
Most of the ammo used through history to take ducks was never labeled "waterfowl" anyway. That's a new marketing invention lol.@@eduffy4937
hi, thx again for this test
Thanks for watching!
Great video!
Thank you!
This is a great video and I don't even hunt. By these figures you could use 1/2 an ounce of tss at about $1.60 per shell( for the tss only) have 169 pellets in the 30 inch circle with superior penetration. Would you have extended range? I don't know .
If you were hand loading you could definitely save money by using less shot and still have pretty good range I think. But I think the best use of 1 oz of tss is shooting ultra long range, beyond what anything else can reach.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide * Would like to see the depth of the penetration ( at longer distances ) for different tss loads. As well as the pattern density.
The test are great...but to get a fair and equal test, it needs to be a equal shot size and weight charge
So test 1oz of steel #9 against the TSS? I doubt they could even enter the gel with the energy they have left at 40 yards.
Absolutely one of the best videos out there. I’ve got a question for you. I’m looking at loading my own 28ga. Bismuth or a TSS / Steel Duplex Load. I can load the Bismuth for about .95 Cents a Shell and the TSS / Steel Duplex load for about $1.35 a Shell. Which would you recommend based on this information ? Thanks for your time and help.
Thanks! Why not a bismuth / tss duplex load? That would be cool. The only great reason I can see to use steel is to save money for close range hunting. Else I would go with bismuth or a bismuth tss blend.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide That’s the main reason I’m going with TSS / Steel Duplex load. I can use 1/2 ounce #9 or #10 TSS and 5/8 ounce #4 steel for a real HAMMER of a Duck / Goose load. And it’s cheaper than TSS / Bismuth Duplex.
Once again this proves that there is no gain to be had with anything other than steel at normal ranges. A couple of weeks ago I went to decoy my local coastal marsh. Just after high tide two wigeon came in to the left. I killed one at about 35yds; the other dropped in a little further. I fired at that one and it got up and I killed it with my 3rd shot. Then two just behind the decoys at about 30yds. My shot dropped both. One needing a cripple stopper. Then another double, on teal-both dead. Again another two wigeon to the left, just behind the decoys. They both dropped to my shot-both dead. Then a few singles-a couple needing cripple stoppers. Ending up with 9 wigeon and 3 teal. What was I using? My Browning A5 with a Browning extended cyl choke, which with steel gives me a 1/4 choke and a very even patterns. The shells? Two 3" 1-1/4 oz 3.5mm no 3's followed by a 3-1/2" 1-3/8 home loaded copperplated 3.8mm no 2's. The patterns with the no 2's are devastating at 40yds. The water just erupting when finishing off ducks. So in conclusion- don't limit yourselves with over tight chokes, patterns and expensive shot.
The days of testing more open chokes are coming!
Do comparison on war chief and migra timber both are blends
I'd like too. Just need to get some!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide where can I send you a box?
Sweet 👍👍
Thanks!
I appreciate the content, but the initial price chart feels intentionally deceptive. The cost of the BOSS program is $150 annually. This should be factored into your cost/shell, or at least mentioned elsewhere in the video.
That or go off base price instead so its all equal.
Yea, I should have shown the price both ways. On one hand I'm in the zone just rolling with what the price is for me, on the other hand I don't want to explain the program and make it a commercial about that. And on the third hand I should probably just go with the retail price. No matter which I pick, someone won't be happy though lol.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide very true. Some people would never be happy. To make it easy, non program cost me 2.36 per boss shell not including shipping. A little steeper, but still worth it for where I hunt.
I like your videos a lot. I know nothing about shooting ballistic gel.
Does shooting the same gel block back to back like that make the penatration more for each consecutive shot? I would think that the 1st rounds would open channels for the next round pellets to pass through easier.
So if you shot the steel last it may go deeper than it did.
I may not be saying it right but just seems using a separate block for each shot would be more conclusive.
Thanks so much. Generally no, taking shots in the gel does not compromise the resistance of the gel. Eventually you can get so many pellets in the gel that pellets begin hitting each other. That'd a problem, but I never shoot the same peice that much. I did a whole video about Gel, you should search for it. I'm holding a sword in the thumbnail.
Thanks. Keep up the great work.
Would have been nice to see the steel Kent in #2 in this test.
I'm hoping to find some
Do you approve of say Modified Factory screw in Rem Choke using the Kent Fast Steel as far as huting the shotgun. I have a Carlson TSS .640 Turkey choke that fits the Remington 870 Barrel as well. Thankyou for you great videw. and letting us know about the hearing company. On a fixed income it is hard to support many things but I do appreciate your testing and expertise.
Thanks. If that choke is rated for the ammo and it patterns well for you then I see no reason to pay for others. I have a new video on the way testing some more stock chokes against aftermarket.
Any plans to test the new warcheif 1 3/4 oz #1 load?
#1? No, never. No use for those in anything I can imagine hunting. The 2s have more power than steel BB shot. I might test 1.75 in other things, but I'm not loving the idea. The 1.5 warcheif has more than enough recoil. I also heard them day say the 1.75 is above pressure spec for a 3" chamber and should be used only in 3.5" guns. But that note doesn't seem to be on the website now that I look. Maybe they changed things around.
Just thinking does the wound channel effect it at all? You would think the larger wound channel with a #4 vs a #9 might have an advantage?
With deer hunting, yes, it makes a big difference but less so with ducks. We aren't usually knocking birds out of the sky due to blood loss. Birds are dropped due to critical organ disruption, brain, neck, heart, lungs, etc. For some of those larger pellets may help, like the lungs. But for the others a smaller faster pellet is preferable because more of them can hit a vital area. And smaller pellets result in less meat destruction which never was what killed them anyway. So generally speaking, smaller is better overall, but there are times when a larger pellet, if you could have just as many of them, would be more effective. But that isn't the real world scenario becuase larger pellets always mean fewer pellets.
how do the tetras hold up in the rain? i live in Oregon and hunt almost exclusively when it's pouring rain.
Tetra calls them "huntproof". They are made to hold up to any conditions the average hunter would face, including hunting ducks in the rain. They told me plenty of stories of dropping them in the water, taking out the batteries and letting them dry in the sun and using them tomorrow. Or running them through the wash and dryer and they keep working. The rechargeable ones have no battery door and are more of a sealed unit as well.
So I’m confused. Ur saying the boss has a .25 oz bigger payload than the steel and they are both #4 but somehow has less pellets🤔🤔
Denser metals mean they are heavier for the same volume. 1 Ounce of steel 4#s is 192 pellets, 1 ounce of bismuth 4s is 140 pellets. Let would have even fewer pellets at the same weight.
Can you do a video on boss 3" 3-5 with a Carlson cremator long range?
I don't have one of those chokes presently, but maybe in the future I can get one. The cremators are steel chokes designed for more open patterns. I think the LR is the equivalent of IM or F.
Am I the only guy left on this planet that crumples ducks at 25 yards with #4 steel and a factory IC choke lol.
No you are not. But more and more people are hunting outside of ideal conditions in major fly ways. Hunting options which weren't possible 15 years ago are now very viable due to ammo improvements.
Well said,
Lol you did 9 vs 4 shot what you expect?
And what shot sizes do you think would be better to test?
This is a lot of really useful information, but for some reason listening to him gives me a headache.
Sorry, not sure what would help that.
My first choice is Bismuth, second is steel, TSS is way over priced in my opinion.
No doubt about that!