Your analysis and conclusion is interesting. But the jury’s verdict was in keeping with TN law which makes allowances for crimes of passion. No she may not have been in imminent danger, but she was under tremendous pressure, he berated and he bullied once too often. He may have been punished for his transgression too severely, but she snapped. Anyway, one less hypocritical skunk in the world
Yet, the children were returned to her. If none of her allegations were substantiated, this wouldn’t have happened. Sadly, this should have been a divorce, not the death of the husband.
Does every American home have a firearm? Seems like it! But I suppose that knives are always available too! This idea that people endure years of mistreatment and then snap seems as though other remedies were not tried (counseling, trial separation, divorce?) How does religion seem to often play a part that is not helpful? Loving families should not degenerate to this extent!
Mary claiming at her sentencing that she lost someone she loved reminded me of the definition of Chutzpah- a man kills his parents in front of the entire congregation of his synagogue and prevails on the judge at his trial to show him mercy, because he is an orphan.
Reminds me of one of the O.J. jurors. I'm not kidding, she really said that she felt sympathy for O.J. because he had to go right to jail and never had time to grieve Nicole's death. You can't make this shit up.
@@TheGrmany69 I was married to a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing for 40 years. He mistreated me, but I divorced him when I found out he was having an affair. My wise Grandmother said, "I'm not going to jail or hell for any man."
I live in Tennessee and remember them looking for her .She is from near where I live . I think the fact there were so many women in the jury and the fact he was a preacher and this what he supposedly did in a very conservative bible belt state helped her also .Much 💘 from Tennessee
“He was a phony; and therefore, somehow, …didn’t have the same right to remain alive.” This line had me laughing to the point of tears. You’ve got a real gift, Dr. Grande.
This was capital murder! I just rewatched the trail a while back.....when they all walked out of the courthouse there was a frame shot of Mary.......she was glowing!
She shot a man in the back while he was asleep in bed. She then left him to bleed to death and took off. I wasn't in the courtroom but it is puzzling how she got such a light sentence.
@@lenitaa7938 nah there are other ways. He was from a great family. They would’ve helped her. My gosh they would’ve pd back that scam money to have had their son live. She killed him, his children, his family, and the church. I think everyone could understand a D I V O R C E before murder.
@@rubymcclain5078 The Church of Christ believes that divorce is a sin, a great one at that. Her husband wouldn't allow a divorce to taint his good name within the church, especially as a leader, with it disqualifying them from leader roles. The husband doesn't seem like the kind of man just to let her leave.
Your facetious slogans get me chuckling every time-i imagine they come to your mind just as rapidly as your wry, well placed jabs at celebrity icons -thanx Dr. Grande for the quirky smiles too; you make every day light-hearted
When I was a licensed counselor, I spent a number of years working at the local women's center. So I met a number of people who were or had been in an abusive relationship. Many of the obvious tactics in this situation do not work for these people. 1. Leave the relationship. The abusive partner has convinced them that they are ugly and will never find a new partner; they have no skills and cannot support self or children; that they will lose their children because they can't support them; that the abuser will never "give" the victim a penny, that they are willing to quit their job so as not to be forced to pay child support. They constantly criticise, harangue, and put down. Often they threaten violence. Sometimes their threats are not idle. Unfortunately, this happened to one of our clients: abuser killed her after she left him, and then he said she "needed killin' ". Their child watched the murder. Another told a client, "You will be beaten, or you will be dead." An abuser took still another client to the shores of a remote lake and said, "This is where I'm going to put your body." In most cases, very early in the relationship, the perpetrator cuts off contact with any source of support; makes passes at the victim's girlfriends, picks fights with the family. They explain that the couple is complete, does not need anyone else. So, being convinced that they are undesirable, without either emotional or financial support, miserable, feeling helpless, brainwashed and depressed, they hunker down and perhaps pray. After some years of this, one may well snap. The tension becomes unbearable. 2) Marriage counseling. Usually, abusers refuse to go. If they don't refuse, they are unlikely to last through the first session. It may be helpful for the victim to go alone, if the abuser will let the victim go. This may make the abuser look like something of a monster, but consider: this person may have been well-trained in a mysogynistic world view. That view will teach that women are naturally submissive, men are leaders and heads of households, that men have a duty to guide and discipline not only their children, but also their wives. The abusers' behaviors may imitate exactly their fathers' behaviors. Many of the abusers are terrified that their partners will cheat. They will constantly check the partner's phone, their car's mileage, and may put location tracers on their cars. They will stalk them, showing up at their workplaces and friends' houses, if they still have any. They constantly accuse them of cheating. One man moved his girlfriend the country, gave her no money or means of transportation, locked her down every way he could, but was very suspicious of the mailman. Women who escape this kind of partner have to have a great deal of courage, and a couple of supportive helpers. Sorry. I did not intend to write a book here.
Thank you for making an educated comment. I am sorry that Dr Grande knows so little about the subject. He should not review cases involving domestic violence.
“Daddy was hurt, and we are leaving.” Growing up in the ghetto had its silver linings, because I would’ve said, “You can leave mom, but I’m not going anywhere with your crazy ass!”
I was following this case and the problem I had is that everything was based on hearsay. I remember people in the community saying that he did not seem like a abusive man. Her own daughters testified that they had never seem their father abuse their mother yet the jurors believed her at face value. So, you can shoot someone in the back, flee, get caught and then bring a wig and a pair of high heel shoes to court and claim abuse and you'll either be acquitted or serve only a few months. Think about this, if criticism/badgering your partner is consider abuse then a lot of men should be acquitted or only service a few months for brutalizing/killing their partners if justice truly is blind.
Thank you, Doctor for another good video. I had a friend in a similar situation, and she left him but would never divorce him. I asked her why just out of curiosity. She said, "Don't you know that if you divorce men like that they always hunt you down and kill you?" I was absolutely stunned. Is there anything to support what she said? I totally agree that she was certainly guilty of a greater charge.
Yes, I have a friend who has been in a miserable marriage for over 40 years. He’s verbally and emotionally abusive, has cheated always, is even flagrant about it. Incidentally, he also attends church services somewhat regularly. But she will not divorce him because he has told her that if she did, he would kill her, and she believes him. She’s concerned about how that would destroy her children and grandchildren. By the way, I also believe him, and I feel powerless to help her.
I live in this area and remember the trial well. The one thing not discussed is the pro Bono defense attorneys. Everyone that watched this knew when Ballen and Farese took over her case, she was going to get a light sentence - if any at all. They are well known for their track record of defending people. The prosecution was not prepared to take on theses big dogs from the city. Ballen knew how to set up and deliver her defense for maximum impact. The jury did not see it coming.
Let's not minimize abuse by calling it "mistreatment ". Giving your spouse a black eye is abuse. I do agree that she deserved a stiffer sentence however, due to there being no immediate threat.
@@erdelegy One doesn't call police in an abusive home!! Every Child growing up in one, knows this! He will be 10 times more angry when he comes from police station, and they will all get it much worse!
He is a man, she is a woman! She may have been too frightened to face him when he is awake, can intimidate and hit her, overpower her! It made sense for her to do it when is unaware and can't get at her as easily! It makes a lot of sense to do it this way! Please, don't say that she could have just left him, because controlling, abusive men rarely let their 'possessions' go, without a severe retribution!
@@lenitaa7938 I can't believe how much Dr. Grande left out!! She was abused and sodomized by this man against her will. He tried to suffocate the baby to get her to stop crying. You can only push people so far before they snap.
@@thomson872 I have noticed elements of unconscious (I’m assuming) misogyny in his videos. It’s a shame. When a therapist doesn’t realise that extreme provocation can look very different to an abused woman than to a man. His involuntary manslaughter definition is skewed towards how those events effect men, rather than how both genders are affected. Snapping can look very different in a woman, particularly one with children, than with a man
They lived in my town, he was a wife and child user. The morning she shot him, baby was crying he gets up puts his hand over the babies nose and mouth and shut her up. Wasn't the first time and not the only child he did this to, she snapped, he would take his girls to local funeral home if he had the girls and if errands to run, he would lock kids in a room till he got back. The staff would freak what if there was a fire, but he was a preacher so he did as he pleased, Mary and her children were victims and she stopped him.
Dr. Grande, you are killing me "what better way to get somebody's attention than a 12 - gauge shotgun"😆 Very unusual case and sad of course but I do agree with your analysis of the sentence for Mary
I have been thinking something along those lines when he made two in one day not long ago. You could see him squinting one eye and I was about to check if he wasn't warning us in Morse code...but then I noticed the video being cut and pasted too many times, haha. I'm glad it was you spilling the beans on the brick wall being fake...😉
You’re right if she were tried in another state, say, NY or CA, the outcome would have been much different. My ex was an abuser in many different ways that made Mary’s experiences look like a day in the park. But never once did I think that killing him was a way out. Justice is best served by others.
If you couple it with the idea that divorce is basically a sin, pressure to wear a wig and heels kind of forces the woman to do something she doesn't really want to or else commit a sin. That thought probably drove her to a psychotic breaking point. Any other type of person would just get out of the relationship or would be open to it. But neither of those things were real options to her.
@@walexander8378 They have three kids and he's mad that he has to go comfort one of them. That can't be a lifestyle that's helpful to a woman's sanity.
Ah, yep, the old ‘conversation at gunpoint’ is an effective technique for focussing any discussion. It really should be a more widely known counselling option. As should the ‘pointing a gun at my own head screaming at you to tell me you love me’ move. It’s the basis for any stable relationship. Why yes I AM single, why do you ask?!
Jury's sometimes have to compromise. A mostly female jury is always going to be lenient when a female claims abuse. It's what it is. The major concern is she murdered her kids father, and then somehow got custody of those kids...
Back in the early 80s when I was a preteen I visited my great grandmother in Knoxville, Tennessee. My great grandmother lived next door to Mary's family - Mary would have been a few years younger than I and apparently we played together while I was visiting. I remember my grandmother telling me that I met her when this news story broke in 2006.
Yeah because people are idiots and easily manipulated. What a silly and weak argument that could only work on extremely uneducated and ignorant people. Even if he did ask her to wear that if she didn't want to that doesn't even come close to justification for murder. He killed him because she was an idiot and got scammed and was too much of a coward to face up to the truth with her husband so took the cowards way out. I hope someone gets this woman now that she is out
I feel like she played innocent because a rational person would just think that maybe she was into the costumes, if you hear of two out of context people engaging in costumed sex you would assume that's it's fun for them and both agreed. I feel like this was the case here too but she played up being a good christian wife and how depraved her husband was for forcing her to engage in this "bad" behavior. Apparently it worked
For everyone out there that knows what a PK is and the baggage that comes with them....well - I'd say there's WAY much more to story PK (Preachers Kid)
Yeah, saw the movie about this, if what was in the movie is true, he was an a-hole to her. Can't remember everything, but he was having an affair, he was very controlling piece of ....
As a former Army medic I would like to point out that weapons are not a good thing to bring to any family discussion. This American addiction to the idea of firearms as a method of problem solving is killing the country.
I didn’t know Mary but around 1976/77 Matthew Winkler’s family rented a farmhouse in rural Morrison Tn (Cannon County). Matthew Winkler was just a little boy then and I’d see kid toys in their front yard when I’d pass by. I never saw any kids outside playing though. Only one lady in our community liked the preacher or his wife (Matthew’s parents). My sister was a second grader then and Mrs Winkler was a substitute teacher for her class. My sister. Was terrified of her and would start sobbing whenever I’d drop her off and Mrs Winkler was subbing. My mother met Mrs Winkler during a school event and she said she was very condescending and rude. Word got around pretty quick that Mr Winkler was rather arrogant too. He didn’t stay at his new preaching position for long before he had to “move on”. The CoC try’s to keep any wrong-doing by church leaders quiet but it got around that Brother Winkler was a crook. - Anyhow, when this story broke my Mom called me up and told me it was them, our old neighbors. Daddy said that old Sum-beoch didn’t waste any time setting up a fund for the little girls (which he and his wife controlled). -. As time went by everyone in our community and McMinnville was rooting for Mary and were happy with the outcome. I bet those little girls were so happy to be reunited with their mother and not have to be raised by Matthew Winkler’s parents. I think Mary and the kids were all happier without Matthew around. If Mary had tried to divorce Matthew he and his parents would have taken the children away from Mary. They had all the power and control, Mary had none. She snapped when he started mistreating the kids.
I watched her testimony, she cited the morning of the incident , she saw him with his hand over the babies face. She all described him blaming her for anything that went wrong in his day. She appeared to be emotionally shut down. I don’t agree with her shooting him, however she appeared to be emotionally abused. I think she was fearful he was going to hurt the children. My opinion
I agree with you TL Campbell, it appears clear that she was fearful to discuss anything with him. I've been in a relatioship like that. For 30 years, Im just glad I never had a shotgun in the house. If that sounds calous that may be because one has to live it to truly understand what happens to ones mind.
To this day I wonder that she was eventually given custody of her pre-teen daughters. If she could decide to murder due to being made fun of and misused by her husband, why did hte courts think she was safe to be a mother of teenagers? I don't mean that as a joke; she proved unable to behave wisely and make good decisions under emotional distress. To the point she murdered. So, how could any court trust her with chidren?
When it came to her husband, sure she didn't make very good choices. We can't really know how someone will finally break after years of abuse. It doesn't have anything to do about her capacity as a mother. Perhaps she believed they would be better without him? I don't know. She shouldn't have killed him, and I'm not trying to justify her actions. Given the circumstances I don't think a Judge would just hand over those kids if they didn't believe she posed no harm to her kids. I don't know, this whole case is bonkers
Things would have turned out different for mary had matthew not been a preacher. Also mary was somewhat a chameleon. She could change her demeaner in a matter of seconds.
I remember this case from years ago. I was immediately struck by the difference in their sizes - big guy, tiny wife. The black eye thing convinced me he was definitely not a nice guy, no matter how well he behaved in public and in the pulpit. I think it would have been better for her to have shot him full on in front of witnesses, without making any prior plan, but yes, I think she deserved to serve time for killing him. Had she pulled a gun on him in private and then backed down, can you imagine what he would have done to her for daring to threaten him with a gun? There is no doubt in my mind that many pastors' wives could tell hair-raising stories that could cause an immediate decline in the collection basket should the wives decide to speak up. Lol. I just read an article from 2010 saying that his parents had taken money from a trust fund set up for their granddaughters and were ordered to pay back $175,000, which is certainly interesting. I guess maybe an acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.
@@aarondavis8943 Sorry, I most definitely won't go that far with you. Wow, what you don't know about women. Lol. At age 70, my past work experience alone has shown me how incredibly devious and vengeful women can be. I worked in an office full of catty backstabbing women in a hospital for years and was thrilled to learn I could go home to work and get away from other women, and I did just that happily for 16 years until I retired. I'd rather work for and with a man any day of the week and did have good male supervisors in my experience. Some women these days have demonstrated they apparently have no problem whatsoever in bumping off a spouse or boyfriend if he can't measure up to their high expectations when it was their own bad choice, and many haven't been "abused" by anyone and have had good parents and examples in their lives. Nope, women need to own up and take responsibility for their dumb and childish decisions and grow up. Maybe you should tune into Pink Book Lessons here on you tube and check those "ladies" out.
She deserved to go to jail for much longer. She shot him and left him to bleed to death. She took away his chance to get help. He wasn’t a great husband, but he didn’t deserve that. Just get a divorce.
There are many out there who agree that Mary Winkler should have been given a much harsher prison sentence. Some believe that Mary should have been sentenced to life in prison whereas others believe that Mary should have gotten the Death Penalty, even though the Prosecution did not seek the Death Penalty against Mary; which is extremely surprising from the state of Tennessee. Seeing as how Tennessee is a Death Penalty state like the majority of the southeastern US- except for Virginia and West Virginia- it wouldn't have been surprising if the courts sentenced Mary Winkler to Death by Lethal Injection. Some people believe that Susan Wright aka the Blue-eyed Butcher should have been sentenced to death for stabbing her abusive piece of shit husband Jeff Wright 193 times and burying him in the backyard of their Houston area home in 2003. One standout moment of the Susan Wright trial was lead prosecutor Kelly Siegler reenacting the murder of Jeff Wright using a colleague of hers to portray Jeff and using the Wrights bed for the reenactment. Despite her claims that Jeff was abusive towards her; the jury convicted Susan Wright of First Degree Murder and sentenced her to twenty-five years in prison. Kelly Siegler painted Susan Wright as an unrepentant bloodthirsty psychopath who committed the murder to gain the benefits of Jeff's life insurance policy and asserted that if Susan was acquitted she would kill again if the opportunity were to present itself.
@@michaellovely6601 You are a FOOL if you believe ANY abuse STORY from a fe-MALE killer. There is NO evidence Susan Wright's husband abused her, NONE, just as there is NO evidence R Kelly abused anyone, all Kelly's accusers were caught in several LIES, for ex. "he held us as sex slaves chained to the walls" well the police investigated the scene and found the accusers getting drunk at a party, making crank calls! Right there the who sham of a trial should have been thrown out. These $MeToo cases are show trials, where MALE celebrities are deliberately scapegoated for the purpose of ushering in kangaroo justice
@@josephesposito3499 Jeff Wright was no saint either because he was addicted to cocaine and steroids which made him a rampaging monster. During the autopsy of Jeff Wright; the coroner discovered that Jeff had alarmingly high levels of cocaine in his system, so much so that his body hadn't metabolized all of the cocaine. Though Jeff did indeed have a history of abusing women. During Susan's appeal; Jeff's former fiancé Misty McMichael testified that Jeff had abused her during their relationship.
The way I heard it he did not get up to comfort the crying child. I heard that he covered the childs mouth and nose with his hand to quiet it when it cried. Also that he had done this with all the children. I heard that was one of the reasons she was mad.
She also alleged that he literally kicked her (physically) out of bed to go to the crying child. Some church members stated that Mary seemed frightened of her husband and would go from friendly and laughing to silent and cowed when he came near. That doesn't justify murder, of course, but I think there's more to this than meets the eye.
It doesn't but if this dude was risking killing his child because crying annoyed him and he literally kicked his wife to make her take care of the kids I meannnnnnn did we really lose much?
Well that’s what the perp said. Doesn’t make it true. She could’ve called someone. I think it was all because she didn’t want him to know she was stupid enough to fall for a money scam.
I am in TN and I remember when this happened and I watched the trial on tv. Followed the reports closely. Mary was a very meek and timid kind of woman. Which made her easy to dominate, which her husband did. She was a pastors wife and who is gong to believe her story of abuse over his? He was the charismatic one and she was the quiet and obedient wife. I also remember her saying that the night she shot him was because he had become a threat to the daughter that he went to check on that night. I can't remember the details she gave, but I do remember thinking that was probably what made her snap and kill him. It is one thing for a wife to take the abuse of her husband, but most mothers will panic and fight for a threat or even a perceived threat to their children. Mary said he had been getting more threatening toward their children. Mary felt like she had no one to help her in the abuse situation. No one would believe her and did not think divorce would be an option. She believed he would get custody of the children, because he was the one in control of her and her life. She felt helpless and pushed in a corner. She felt like her children might be in danger. How much of what she said was true and how much of it was just her perception. We don't know. But the jury believed her as did her lawyer. The meekest, weakest and most frightened of people have their breaking point. And Mary reached hers that night. A lot of women will kill their abusive spouse in their sleep, because they feel that is their only chance of escape from their nightmare. So they sneak up on them. I can remember another famous wife that burned her abusive husband up when she set their house on fire while he was asleep. Mary's story is such a tragic one. I especially felt the pain of Mathews parents as they set in the courtroom during her trial. They both set their so stoic and without visable emotion. Domestic violence is no joke.
No, actually, her own testimony referred to a sex act she did not want to do. Quite understandably, but above anything else, there was no immediate threat to her, or a child.
The baby was crying and she woke him up with her crying. It made him mad, so he went into her room and put his hand over her mouth (or nose and mouth?) to stop her from crying so he could go back to sleep. Mary saw what he did and became enraged. She thought he might suffocate their daughter. Of course, this is all Mary's account. The husband isn't alive to tell his side of the story or if any of this is actually true or not.
I was shocked by this verdict. I could not understand how she basically walked. Can you comment on the R. Kelly verdict? Would love to hear your analysis!
You had me dying on the floor there too, Dr Grande, ...laughing when I heard that bit about showing her love. Mary's biggest problem was that she just coudn't say no...no to the dressing up, no to the con-artists and no to herself before she shot her husband. She could have left him before shooting him or even before but 'no'. It surprises me that woman are not able to go against the will of their husband or partner but they are able to kill them. And as I understand it because he would find out about the money. Talk about extreme measures not to hear his negative comments anymore. As for him, he should have married a taller woman with natural long hair. 🤭🧟👋
You mean, "was she impulsive?" of course she was... but not in this case, specifically, she was reckoning before the fact. This is a pattern I see often in female criminals, narcissistic victimism.
I guess the lesson is: when your partner makes a huge mistake financially, as did Mary (and as did my sister's partner,) TREAD VERY CAREFULLY... with the damage done, becoming infuriated helps no one and could actually be dangerous.
I don't think Matthew was that bad of a husband - I think Mary found herself in a hole of her own digging and didn't know how to get out. Matthew would've been furious about the Nigerian money scam and irregularities at the bank and rather than confront him about it, Mary just shot him. Much easier than an argument.
I think so too. I think he may have had a bad temper( people forget pastors are human too) and he may have intimidated her, but from all I have read of this case, I don’t believe he was abusive. Even the daughter said she never saw her dad mistreat her mom. To me this is just another double standard, I do think women are treated leniently by the justice system, if this was the opposite and the husband did this I think he would have been sentenced to life.
Sadly that seems how it goes. A friends dad murdered and did 2 years and another friend had a nonviolent drug case and did 10 years. He was addicted not a bad person. The other guy was still a bad guy after 2 yrs in prison.
@@Gabriellakittywitch Looks exactly right n Fetterman wants to legalize Fentanyl for heaven’s sake. Everyday thousands are dying from this killer drug. I think Mary should’ve gotten 20 yes in prison. That was premeditated it I ever saw it. I’m scared of that mousy liar.
Dr Grande is getting better and more hilarious by the episode! In my opinion, in early videos, his deadpan quips were accidentally funny. I feel like he embraced his inner comedian and now we all get to enjoy the fruit of his labors! Does anyone else find themselves saying “in a situation like this..” in conversations? Well done, Dr G❤️
@@kitchfacepalm Maybe it would have been a much slower, more painful death ? Maybe she would have ordered him to put on the 8 inch heels and wig at gunpoint ?
Yes. First, she entangles herself in a ridiculous scam without discussing it with her husband. I don't blame him for becoming irate. I remember that Nigerian e-mail scam with all the misspellings and grammatical errors; it would have only have appealed to a particularly naive or greedy person. Secondly, all defendants are entitled to a robust defense, but character assassination of the victim is inexcusable.
Ohhh fo shooo! I have no doubt - that jury was comprised entirely of religious nuts, capable of being convinced of the dumbest shit anyone could imagine!! And it’s fucking damn near impossible to out-dumb the nonsense in the bible….
It's like this Tennessee jury was made up of a bunch of prayer group Susans in menopause. If not for the two men and the ONE female that had any sense of rational logic, she would have gotten off just based on her bullshit claim about roleplay sex - which she was actively consensual to. Dumbest shit I've ever heard.
I might be wrong but the implication could be he preferred her to dress like a hooker or prostitute. Since he is a pastor and the community is extremely religious bible belt area it was viewed by them as deviant behavior. Granted in a lot of areas like this the only discussions about sex are abstinence before marriage nothing else is openly discussed so a lack of understanding about what is considered deviant behavior isn't surprising. Dr. Grande mentioned the jury was mostly female, it'd be interesting to know if they were mostly white women around the defendants age as they could have seen themselves in her and been overly sympathetic. I believe the prosecution should have pushed more for an even demographic split in jurors. I have seen the opposite case happen as well with a female defendant having all male or almost all male jurors and the evidence of self defense very strong unlike this case but they get a much more severe sentence. I personally think having an almost even number of genders and a wider range of ages and ethnicities makes for a more fair trail and less chance of biases but that's not what most lawyers are looking for in jury selection, just what will win their case.
Its not the wig and heels, but that he FORCED her. Any forced sexual act is assault. Even between spouses. That was legally cleared up in 2005 in Tennessee. Its crazy it took that long.
Your subtle innuendos are absolutely hysterical! I thoroughly enjoy listening to you.I agree that your analysis is absolutely more exciting than a shotgun blast!
Another toxic relationship. As we have seen with the Gabby Petito case, sometimes there is only one way out. The most dangerous time for an abused victim is when they try to leave the relationship, Mary must have known this on some level. Trauma bonded victims in abusive situations really don’t have the same choices as regular couples. If Gabby had killed Brian I guess the media would be treating her as a second degree murderer. What kind of a world are we in when we can’t tell the difference between a victim and an abuser.
Another great one Dr. I’ve lived a stones throw from there most of my life also raised in a very conservative church. Some of the preachers around here are very creepy and their families seem to be very controlled (brainwashed) by the husband. Glad the military gave me a way out to see beyond the bible belt. After returning to take care of my mother I see these people in a different light and feel sorry for the kids. Keep up the great work. Thanks Dr
This case occurred close to where I grew up. I remember hearing about it as a kid, and then reading online about it as an adult. So bizarre to hear Dr. G talk about towns that are so familiar to me.😳
Yea it's interesting. Like when he says Knoxville I can picture it in my head because it's right down the road. Most stories the places are just names I know nothing about. Makes it more interesting.
Man, imagine your brother or son being shot like that in his sleep, suffering and dying all alone on the floor… and then his murderer gets off with just 200-something days in jail. Sheesh.
I've always had mixed feelings about this case. Was she abused? Sure, what she described can certainly be classified as abuse. However, when she went and got the shotgun on her own without an ongoing physical altercation she became the instigator. She absolutely could have left. The fact that she also had a nearly all female jury probably had something to do with her light punishment. The whole case is bonkers and the children are the only ones I feel sorry for.
There was a problem with money, she was abused, but she could've left him. In Brazil a woman paid to have her husband killed because divorce it is against God's law and the church does not see that with sympathy. But murder...her entire family is involved, sons and daughters, even the grandkids, it is just unbelievable she thought she was going to get away with. For Mary it worked, but she is kind of shady!
@@laurenmay2098 Was she? I missed whether there was conclusive evidence of that. Idk what Brazil has to do with it. There's always penalties in divorce. We don't sympathize with men who murder their wives to avoid alimony and the like.
@@PajamaJazama I am saying a pastor in Brazil, killed her husband, also a pastor, because the divorce is not good for the church. They don't see you as good by being divorced. That's why I mention that case. Who is to say that Mary didn't think the same? Rather killed than divorce it? I don't know, but she is savy with their money, she is no domestic abused wife.
The phone line was cut so they'd be no hope of 911. He was shot in the back while sleeping, so there's no self defense or even gunpoint negotiations here. This is murder. She's a maniac.
She did not know it was a scam. She had been isolated by her husband and probably forbidden from talking to anyone about their money problems or her mental state She was scammed after feeling desperate enough to think an email from a stranger was a gift from God. Someone close to me had this scam happen in their family the victim was a Pastors Widow believing her lending money to someone in need would bring in monetary blessings. Her kids tried to break through the illusion but it didn't stop until she lost her paid for house and her retirement savings. In that house reality wasn't reality and living hand to mouth and being expected to put up with marital rape constantly while seeming perfect, content and serene. Her husband had what he wanted and could not let her show any imperfection in their 4th Baptist Church illusion of a life. The family photo shows Mary's stress and the anger on their middle daughters face was a reflection of the family secrets. The fact that both parents bought or kept that picture shows how dysfunctional the couple had become. She snapped and finally ran away from the train wreck that was their lives. Living under a microscope with friends and family excluded led her to that final act. She did not shoot the children or herself and if her husband had not reprimanded her for not hearing their scared daughter, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. She did wrong, knew it and expected to pay for it but she had not been planning for that to happen. Taking the kids and leaving was the sane thing to do it did not even occur to her she could do that and then fix their problems later. Temporary Psychosis.
What is even the point of a justice system if the perpetrator can always escape the judgment with an appeal to emotion? It's like having a 'bad childhood' gives you at least 1 free card for murdering someone in cold blood. At least a very weak sentence.
@@Blobby192 Exactly, also R Kelly was FRAMED as well, GOSSIP & HYPOTHISES is NOT evidence of a crime , Kelly's accusers had too many inconsistencies in their claims, "he chained us to the wall" turned out to be a PRANK CALL to the police! why did this not result in throwing the case out? Unfortunately evidence is no longer required to convict MEN, just a hatred of the MAN is all that's needed. We are a banana republic thanks to the unstable influence of wo-MEN
@joey The point is the prison system is clogged full of people and there's no point in taking someone's life who won't reoffend. Lets say a boy r@pes and kills his girlfriend then says "I did it for fun I've always wanted to" lets say another boy shoots his dad who has been r@ping and beating him. I mean why give both these Boys the same sentence when one can be rehabilitated? It's just more money frm the tax payers and a young man loses the rest of his life needlessly.
@joeph Esposito you are all over these comments shitting on women, calling women names, above said the military has been "pussified" since women are allowed in it and now you say rkelly was framed when he is on video pissing on a underage girl. Get help before you kill A woman cause you clearly hate them.
@UCzx2JX-LZ495u8cGPcgGuVQ first of all, it’s vital to the integrity of a functional justice system that civilians can’t just take justice into their own hands without any consequences. Secondly; we don’t know the extent of the abuse this woman endured. Her husband asking her to wear high heels and a blonde wig hardly equals abuse. And it was just used to garner sympathy with the conservative female jurors. Thirdly; the wife was hiding financial woes from her husband so she had motive to kill besides the alleged abuse.
Exactly...and lucky to survive their insanity once told it's time for them to go. I had the deputy tell me I should not be home without a firearm or to have someone with a gun come stay with me, that I needed to be terrified (because at this point I was nearly immune to how crazy his behavior was) and that they would not hesitate to shoot him on site as his behavior had become so out of control. And no, this is the side of the narcissist that no one except the immediate spouse and kids sees....until narcissistic injury occurs and they unravel. Which is what both LEO and the judge saw in my case. And we don't talk about it because we are told that what is happening to us is our fault. These aholes are the devil...and will go on to do the same to the next person, thinking their behavior is fine and they are perfect. Smdh....
My opinion She was religious, at the beginninig you said. Traditional as community they lived in. For her, it was normal to be obedient. I don't think they argued, knowing all that. She was under constant criticism and trying to satisfy his urges and values. All that acumulated and stress because of scam and first day at work made her did it. His "why" doesn't say he didn't do anything, but he didn't know he did. She snapped. Thank you
Abuse is a damaging problem. Living with abuse daily can erode any empathy for the spouse badgering the other mate. I lived it for 26 years and it cuts deeply. Being a ministers wife I understand her pain.
I do so love your videos, Dr. Grande. Personally, I believe that the reason she served so little time was because of the very large number of women who were, at one time or another, subjected to years of Narcissistic abuse. It is NEVER obvious to people outside the immediate family, and even if they do witness it, blow it off as "boys being boys". One of the VERY few times I have ever disagreed, respectfully, sir. I have lived it, but no, I never murdered the perp, lol.
I don’t think anyone looks at abuse by a grown ass man and thinks to themselves “boys being boys”. Fact of the matter is that the justice system in the US is skewed to favor women. They receive lighter sentences for committing the same crimes and are more likely to have favorable outcomes in custody disputes. This is because women as seen as protectors, nurturers and mothers while men are seen as violent and abusive and this more deserving of jail time.
Oh I think a lot of people don't give two fucks about that, including a whole bunch of (mostly white) women who elected a man who was friends with Jeffrey Epstein for 17 years, has dozens of SA accusations, 3 wives and said shit like "grab em by the pussy" for the entire world to hear. Conservative Christians care about a whole different bunch of despicable stuff. Narcissistic abuse ain't one of them.
Her Mom was dead, his Mom always excused his behaviors but didn't see the worst of it. I don't find psychological abuse a reason for this type of murder, but I do think she had a psychological break and needs to continue receiving treatment.
If she had fled with her children or filed for divorce, who would get custody in today’s society? The abused woman or the good preacher who denies any wrongdoing? There is still (in the age of Me Too) who would take her husband’s side. I can’t imagine the stress this woman was under. The most important part of her life was her children (one could argue not important since shooting their father is devastating to them). She struggled against her fear against her husband (taking her word) and losing the kids. There is a chasm size hole in our legal system against options for abused women. Without being in her head, nobody really knows what she struggled with.
I agree that there aren’t nearly enough ways for abused women to safely leave their abusers. I just watched ID’s “Evil Lives Here.” THAT husband deserves killing (after beating up his wife regularly he ended up slaughtering another woman and her two small kids). In the case discussed by Dr. Grande, however, she could’ve divorced him and tried to keep her kids. She could’ve fled with the kids (though she may not have had money). Murdering him was far from her only solution.
@@Ceerads I totally agree that murder is wrong, full stop. But… if you’re cornered or feel threatened, then the age old assumption that the person will react with “fight or flight”. With the wide range of mental issues (and extremes of each issue), are we really surprised when tragedies like this occur? Dr. Grande listed observable behavior noted by mental professionals, but without knowing what is in her head, it could be real, manipulative, or something else. Plato’s Cave Allegory comes specifically to mind.
@@laurenmay2098 I agree, that’s what an emotionally balanced person does. But I thought Dr. Grande’s mission is to teach and learn about mental health topics. In this case, applying what I’ve learned so far, is that mentally challenged individuals don’t react the same as a mentally healthy person. I’m arguing, that given an emotionally distressed person, under stress (which we don’t know is true or an act) will react to stressors that an emotionally balanced person will either disregard or at the very least not commit murder. I guess I got this channel wrong. I thought it was about mental health, not meting out justice like Judge Judy, which the vast majority of commenters seem to prefer. My bad…
@@danbuchman7497 do you think she was emotionally challenged when she expended the money and continue to lie about it? In my opinion she is a capable person. I remember watching the trial, her in the witness stand, boy oh boy, she was not traumatized, not even remorseful. I was victim of emotional abuse and my ex is alive. Just saying, she is a manipulative person and planned the murder. But she is a petite little woman, fragile, so we don't think she is capable of murder. 25 to life with possibility of parole.
I think your absolutely correct with your analysis. Thank you Dr. Grande. I think Mary was definetly being mistreated. I think she just snapped. I really do. Your analysis was certainly much more interesting than a shotgun blast. Thanks again Dr. G. Your the best at what you do.
I grew up in a small town near there. There wouldn't be a report of abuse. Talking to your wife like trash and making her do all the child raising is 99% of marriages I grew up seeing. It's so normalized between that and churches around here pretty much preaching women are lost lambs who need to be controlled by the god fearing husband she probably didn't even know she was being abused. Even if she did a pastors wife wouldn't have a snow balls chance in he'll of reporting abuse unless it was really obvious and extremely. She would be chased outta town.
"The Straw that Broke the Camels Back" To my mind, it is the build up of all the negative things Mary was living through. To a person who can deal with many stressors, can mistakenly view Mary's actions has callous and cold, since she was not in immediate danger. The cumulative stressors leading up to the incident, The money situation, the requirement of wigs and degrading sexual encounters, and then him being angry about having to care for their daughter who was crying. (who knows what was said and done when that took place). Mary may have tried to calm herself down but was too enflamed to succeed. A single derogatory word could have been the straw that weighed too much to handle reasonably. Although I would have suggested more time for her, what she did was terribly wrong, but I think the charge she was found guilty of was appropriate.
I remember when this happened. I don't normally find murder funny, but I have laughed over this story a few times over the years. And when there is a church named "4th St. Church", I think there are WAY too many churches in that community.
This church is about 35 miles from me. We are deep in the Bible Belt and, yes, there is a church on every other block! In "our" defense, these small towns do not have very much to offer(no malls; no facilities for entertainment, etc, etc). Social interaction occurs at church or at school(if you have children). If you aren't involved in one of these enteties, you are pretty much on your own. It's very frustrating!
Mary's attorney is a legend in this part of the country. I doubt he has lost a case. We are in the Bible Belt and people put pastors on a pedestal. Behavior like he did isn't very well received. Mary paid in other ways....after murder, she developed Muscular Sclerosis and had many health problems. It was a surprise to most people that her sentence was so light.
I had a friend from Ireland, a place that has been devastated by religious wars for a thousand years, come visit me in Alabama. One of the first things he noticed was how many churches we have over here. He said there were two on every corner and three more behind them!
The clothing in the bedroom part isn’t shocking to me. It’s the asking permission to get her hair done, which kind of makes me feel like their sex life also included some emotional abuse. Clothing alone is not the issue. It’s what’s behind it. Did he force her because he knew she hated it? Was he making her pretend to be someone else in an attempt to make her feel like she wasn’t good enough? I’m worried that’s what was going on. I’m a hair stylist. Every woman who had a guy tell her how and when to style her hair, had a bad marriage. Most were cheated on, some were abused, and many eventually got divorced. I wish she’d just gotten a divorce. Not that I care that he is dead, but he really should have faced some consequences before dipping out in his sleep. She could have ruined his life of that info came out during their divorce. He could have felt the gravity of his behavior, but instead, he went to sleep and never woke up, without ever having to face judgment or shame over how he treated her.
I went to church of Christ for 20 years my whole family went there ,my uncle was elder there. They are very condemning and women are not allowed to serve in the unless it is concerning little kids, like Sunday school. They preach that they are the only church, the true churchI t was so judgmental and hateful that I couldn't take it any so I can see why this woman was so messed up!!Kay Collins Indiana
I was a bit surprised he was a Church of Christ pastor, but then again, I know little about that denomination. A distant cousin of mine is married to a Church of Christ pastor but handles herself very well, not on the timid side. I'm much more familiar with Baptists (and there are many flavors - Southern, Independent, Landmark, Primitive, Reformed, etc.). Oh well, there are phonies and hypocrites in any group you can name. We'd be naive to believe otherwise.
How big was Mary? How big was her husband? In many cases, abused wives murder their husbands when they are asleep or otherwise defenseless because to confront them during an attack would be suicide. Are we supposed to let ourselves be killed because we happen to be smaller/weaker/less experienced with using violence? It sounds to me like hubby dearest expected his wife to cook, clean, take care of the kids, probably do all the housework AND put HIM on a pedestal. (8" heels) This after a full day at a new job. Then he's angry that he has to take care of his little girl because he woke up more easily. Parenting is obvioiusly beneath him. Would he have reacted the same way if it was his little boy? Then he expects her to get up and make his coffee and get him ready to go to work while he has a lie in. Then she has to get the kids breakfast and ready to go, drop them off, and THEN she can take care of herself, or more likely go on to another full day of work. Sorry, guys, this is the definition of abuse. She has no voice, no agency, is treated like a slave by her husband. She goes upstairs to tell him that since she now has a job herself, he's going to have to pitch in more, AND HE'S ASLEEP! Doesn't give a crap about her. He got his way, everything is right with the world. What she should have done was packed the kids up and left after he was gone for the day, then divorced him. He'd never work as a pastor again.
Are you at all aware of what they are taught to believe from the bible? Eating human flesh and drinking human blood, talking animals, Genital mutilation - CRAZY SUPER-FUCKIN-CRAZY-WACKOS
It does seem as though some Christians pick out what I would consider the least Christian constructs to adhere to! What about "Thou shalt not kill" or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!"? I question the teachings of any church that produces people like this!🤔
In a very religious and conservative small Southern town like Selmer, TN; divorce is widely frowned upon and the preachers are treated with God-like status. Some people in both Selmer, TN and in McMinnville, TN- where the trial was held- believe that Mary Winkler should have been sentenced to life in prison for murdering her husband in cold blood. The state of Tennessee did not seek the Death Penalty against Mary.
The reality of it all, is that NOBODY knows exactly what goes on behind closed doors. It's amazing of the Dark Side that exists in the lives of countless people... Too many assume that everyone acts the same in their private lives, as they pretend to be 'That Good Ol' Boy' in the workplace. Some of us pretend that we are all 'Living the Dream' 24/7. Very sad, indeed.
@@josephesposito3499 Hey Joe Joe how's the ride on your scooter..... I'm sorry I'm sorry..... I shouldn't have said that you ride a motor camel..... I meant gurl bike 🚳😃🗡️🗡️🗡️
Oh my gosh, my family & I lived in Selmer when this murder occurred. Their middle daughter was on our basketball team. Selmer is a very small town. This was an extreme shock in this community. Yip...her defense would not have worked in all areas of country. She had good counsel, for her anyway.
Based on what I recall of this case, and on the good doctors analysis, my guess is that he was an emotional and psychological abuser, and possibly a porn addict. I’m not justifying what she did, but if she was raised to be a good little church girl who was taught all her life that divorce is not an option, she believed she had no choice but to endure his abuse and hope it would get better.
Dropped out of college because of financial inability. Go to college to be financially stable but going to college requires you to be financially stable before your life even exist. What a dilemma the US puts us in
Conservatism has nothing to do with being appalled at someone being forced into wearing a costume for sex. It's not kink shaming if what is being shamed is not consensual and not fun for everyone involved! Liberal folks are, very much, into consent you know.
Dr. Grande, your clothes closet probably looks as colorful as mine with the exception of the color palette. Any ideas concerning a person's color selection? It would be interesting to hear.
Its so difficult to think clearly after years of gaslighting, emotional, verbal, financial and physical abuse and many calls to the police, I wanted my husband to disappear. Not saying I would have killed him but I would not have shed a tear if he dropped dead. Why does the batterer always get the benefit of the doubt?
@@grandmaida7819 5:43 6:15 11:33. Also, neighbors witnessed violent behavior because 9:13 and had reason to believe he mistreated her 9:18 and 11:07. Furthermore a father who thinks he's above and resents comforting thier own child 2:10. Too often batterers are given the benefit of the doubt by people who are ignorant of what spousal abuse actually is. It is not always broken bones or bashed out teeth. I could be way off but if it looks like poop, smells like poop, I don't have to taste it to think he sounds like a prick.
Dr. Grande, I think a video analyzing people who fall for Nigerian money scams would be interesting.
😂
Absolutely
The best tagline for that kind of marriage counseling: your best shot at reconciliation.
I'll see myself out.
😂😂😂👍
No, stay! We need your kind of humor🤣😎🤣
@Trueblave noice 👏👏
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
Your analysis and conclusion is interesting. But the jury’s verdict was in keeping with TN law which makes allowances for crimes of passion. No she may not have been in imminent danger, but she was under tremendous pressure, he berated and he bullied once too often. He may have been punished for his transgression too severely, but she snapped.
Anyway, one less hypocritical skunk in the world
Sad story on so many levels-especially for the children.😔
Yet, the children were returned to her. If none of her allegations were substantiated, this wouldn’t have happened. Sadly, this should have been a divorce, not the death of the husband.
Yeah, poor kids they got it so much worse then the dad!! Who cares about him...
Stupid+psychopath=total catastrophe.
but not the victim because he is a man
looking dashing in that bold red today, Dr!
He looks great in solids doesn't he! 😊
He looks like he's sitting still and not dashing.
Aren't we the literalist! Good looking then! How's that?
@@bthomson doc has a joie de vivre about him! 😉
Brick red ♥️ lovely color.
That’s quite a jump, from making morning coffee to walking upstairs and retrieving a pump action shotgun 😳
Does every American home have a firearm? Seems like it! But I suppose that knives are always available too! This idea that people endure years of mistreatment and then snap seems as though other remedies were not tried (counseling, trial separation, divorce?) How does religion seem to often play a part that is not helpful? Loving families should not degenerate to this extent!
Good thing he didn't demand sconces with his morning coffee, right??
Yeah that was the only part of this story that was odd, going from dumbass to murderer. But this is Tennessee, and a 70 IQ.
First the coffee, *then* the shotgun.
Priorities, people. Proper reverent devotion to the Holy Fluid always comes first.
"Would you like something to go with your coffee? I'll be right back ..I gotta go upstairs for a minute.."
Mary claiming at her sentencing that she lost someone she loved reminded me of the definition of Chutzpah- a man kills his parents in front of the entire congregation of his synagogue and prevails on the judge at his trial to show him mercy, because he is an orphan.
similar to hubris, already love the term.
Reminds me of one of the O.J. jurors.
I'm not kidding, she really said that she felt sympathy for O.J. because he had to go right to jail and never had time to grieve Nicole's death.
You can't make this shit up.
Did that work, saying he was an orphan?
@@TheGrmany69 I was married to a Wolf in Sheep's Clothing for 40 years. He mistreated me, but I divorced him when I found out he was having an affair. My wise Grandmother said, "I'm not going to jail or hell for any man."
@@pamalaboyd7008 It worked for this chick, saying she was a widow and lost the man she loved.
I live in Tennessee and remember them looking for her .She is from near where I live . I think the fact there were so many women in the jury and the fact he was a preacher and this what he supposedly did in a very conservative bible belt state helped her also .Much 💘 from Tennessee
“He was a phony; and therefore, somehow, …didn’t have the same right to remain alive.” This line had me laughing to the point of tears. You’ve got a real gift, Dr. Grande.
… a gift to add the absurd without a real reason. Great sense of humor 😁
@@AS-sn5gf no WHAT didn't?
I wish I could burst out in cry-laugh this easy
@@AS-sn5gf sober up, my dude
@@AS-sn5gf it wasn’t yelling. It was stress on a word without _doing something like this _ which doesn’t fucking work properly anymore
This was capital murder! I just rewatched the trail a while back.....when they all walked out of the courthouse there was a frame shot of Mary.......she was glowing!
She shot a man in the back while he was asleep in bed. She then left him to bleed to death and took off. I wasn't in the courtroom but it is puzzling how she got such a light sentence.
She should have been convicted on a more severe charge than voluntary manslaughter. The reason she wasn't is that the jury consisted of mostly women.
I know!
If she was seriously afraid of the husband, it makes sense what she did!
@@lenitaa7938 nah there are other ways. He was from a great family. They would’ve helped her. My gosh they would’ve pd back that scam money to have had their son live. She killed him, his children, his family, and the church. I think everyone could understand a D I V O R C E before murder.
@@rubymcclain5078 The Church of Christ believes that divorce is a sin, a great one at that. Her husband wouldn't allow a divorce to taint his good name within the church, especially as a leader, with it disqualifying them from leader roles. The husband doesn't seem like the kind of man just to let her leave.
Your facetious slogans get me chuckling every time-i imagine they come to your mind just as rapidly as your wry, well placed jabs at celebrity icons -thanx Dr. Grande for the quirky smiles too; you make every day light-hearted
I've been essentially bedridden for the past 2 months, your videos have been a godsend in making getting thru this possible
Sorry to hear that. I hope you are getting stronger and feeling better by the day. Take care.
Get well fast friend 😊
Hope you feel better soon. Dr. Grande's videos are something to look forward to each day.
Sending positivity your way
Aww, Hate to hear that man.
"Tired of racking your brain, try racking a shotgun instead" 🤣 I can't with you, Dr. G.
When I was a licensed counselor, I spent a number of years working at the local women's center. So I met a number of people who were or had been in an abusive relationship. Many of the obvious tactics in this situation do not work for these people.
1. Leave the relationship. The abusive partner has convinced them that they are ugly and will never find a new partner; they have no skills and cannot support self or children; that they will lose their children because they can't support them; that the abuser will never "give" the victim a penny, that they are willing to quit their job so as not to be forced to pay child support. They constantly criticise, harangue, and put down. Often they threaten violence. Sometimes their threats are not idle. Unfortunately, this happened to one of our clients: abuser killed her after she left him, and then he said she "needed killin' ". Their child watched the murder. Another told a client, "You will be beaten, or you will be dead." An abuser took still another client to the shores of a remote lake and said, "This is where I'm going to put your body."
In most cases, very early in the relationship, the perpetrator cuts off contact with any source of support; makes passes at the victim's girlfriends, picks fights with the family. They explain that the couple is complete, does not need anyone else.
So, being convinced that they are undesirable, without either emotional or financial support, miserable, feeling helpless, brainwashed and depressed, they hunker down and perhaps pray. After some years of this, one may well snap. The tension becomes unbearable.
2) Marriage counseling. Usually, abusers refuse to go. If they don't refuse, they are unlikely to last through the first session. It may be helpful for the victim to go alone, if the abuser will let the victim go.
This may make the abuser look like something of a monster, but consider: this person may have been well-trained in a mysogynistic world view. That view will teach that women are naturally submissive, men are leaders and heads of households, that men have a duty to guide and discipline not only their children, but also their wives. The abusers' behaviors may imitate exactly their fathers' behaviors. Many of the abusers are terrified that their partners will cheat. They will constantly check the partner's phone, their car's mileage, and may put location tracers on their cars. They will stalk them, showing up at their workplaces and friends' houses, if they still have any. They constantly accuse them of cheating. One man moved his girlfriend the country, gave her no money or means of transportation, locked her down every way he could, but was very suspicious of the mailman.
Women who escape this kind of partner have to have a great deal of courage, and a couple of supportive helpers.
Sorry. I did not intend to write a book here.
Thank you for making an educated comment. I am sorry that Dr Grande knows so little about the subject. He should not review cases involving domestic violence.
“Daddy was hurt, and we are leaving.”
Growing up in the ghetto had its silver linings, because I would’ve said, “You can leave mom, but I’m not going anywhere with your crazy ass!”
I was following this case and the problem I had is that everything was based on hearsay. I remember people in the community saying that he did not seem like a abusive man. Her own daughters testified that they had never seem their father abuse their mother yet the jurors believed her at face value. So, you can shoot someone in the back, flee, get caught and then bring a wig and a pair of high heel shoes to court and claim abuse and you'll either be acquitted or serve only a few months. Think about this, if criticism/badgering your partner is consider abuse then a lot of men should be acquitted or only service a few months for brutalizing/killing their partners if justice truly is blind.
Thank you, Doctor for another good video. I had a friend in a similar situation, and she left him but would never divorce him. I asked her why just out of curiosity. She said, "Don't you know that if you divorce men like that they always hunt you down and kill you?" I was absolutely stunned. Is there anything to support what she said?
I totally agree that she was certainly guilty of a greater charge.
yeah, there's lots of guys in prison to support what she said, plus a few that aren't in prison like o.j. simpson
@@whbgegs5571 Wow. Thank you - how awful.
0 evidence. But you believe anyways because you are all just ignorant, man hating, buffoons.
Yes, I have a friend who has been in a miserable marriage for over 40 years. He’s verbally and emotionally abusive, has cheated always, is even flagrant about it. Incidentally, he also attends church services somewhat regularly. But she will not divorce him because he has told her that if she did, he would kill her, and she believes him. She’s concerned about how that would destroy her children and grandchildren. By the way, I also believe him, and I feel powerless to help her.
The defense attorneys for this case are champions at jury selection.
Repeal the 19th. Shows how modern women process information.
Yep, just Wauu 😱😨
Exactly, with the "right" jury you wouldn't be able to convict Hitler.
Troglodyte
This is Tennessee.
the jury was the worst in this case
Even Mary was like, “That’s it?!”
Ikr, that's when you really know you beat the system, when even you can't believe it.
I live in this area and remember the trial well. The one thing not discussed is the pro Bono defense attorneys. Everyone that watched this knew when Ballen and Farese took over her case, she was going to get a light sentence - if any at all. They are well known for their track record of defending people. The prosecution was not prepared to take on theses big dogs from the city. Ballen knew how to set up and deliver her defense for maximum impact. The jury did not see it coming.
Stop it😀
Let's not minimize abuse by calling it "mistreatment ". Giving your spouse a black eye is abuse. I do agree that she deserved a stiffer sentence however, due to there being no immediate threat.
@@erdelegy One doesn't call police in an abusive home!! Every Child growing up in one, knows this! He will be 10 times more angry when he comes from police station, and they will all get it much worse!
He is a man, she is a woman! She may have been too frightened to face him when he is awake, can intimidate and hit her, overpower her! It made sense for her to do it when is unaware and can't get at her as easily! It makes a lot of sense to do it this way! Please, don't say that she could have just left him, because controlling, abusive men rarely let their 'possessions' go, without a severe retribution!
@@lenitaa7938 I can't believe how much Dr. Grande left out!! She was abused and sodomized by this man against her will. He tried to suffocate the baby to get her to stop crying. You can only push people so far before they snap.
@@thomson872 I have noticed elements of unconscious (I’m assuming) misogyny in his videos. It’s a shame. When a therapist doesn’t realise that extreme provocation can look very different to an abused woman than to a man. His involuntary manslaughter definition is skewed towards how those events effect men, rather than how both genders are affected. Snapping can look very different in a woman, particularly one with children, than with a man
@@tradwitchmorgana6933 I agree.
They lived in my town, he was a wife and child user. The morning she shot him, baby was crying he gets up puts his hand over the babies nose and mouth and shut her up. Wasn't the first time and not the only child he did this to, she snapped, he would take his girls to local funeral home if he had the girls and if errands to run, he would lock kids in a room till he got back. The staff would freak what if there was a fire, but he was a preacher so he did as he pleased, Mary and her children were victims and she stopped him.
Is this a lie?
@@eadweard. I think its quite possibly true. If you scroll up you can see comments from people who watched the trial. It fits.
Dr. Grande, you are killing me "what better way to get somebody's attention than a 12 - gauge shotgun"😆 Very unusual case and sad of course but I do agree with your analysis of the sentence for Mary
Wow, sometimes our justice system can really be a complete joke.
Speaking as a native Tennessean, there's an old joke that in Tennessee, "They just needed killing" is a valid legal defense.
I've just read that same line in a John Grisham novel.
That's funny
Oh I believe it lol
I heard that line in an old movie:
"I just thought he needed killing!"
i think that applies for all of the deep south too-- please don't travel beyond the WV border. Not welcome in the civilized states.
With all these constant uploads I'm starting to wonder if our good doctor is captive in a cellar with a fake brick wall!?!? Send me a sign doc!
:p
I have been thinking something along those lines when he made two in one day not long ago. You could see him squinting one eye and I was about to check if he wasn't warning us in Morse code...but then I noticed the video being cut and pasted too many times, haha. I'm glad it was you spilling the beans on the brick wall being fake...😉
Good one 👍😄
Signal to us if you need help Dr. Grande!!😮 Maybe hold your cactus close to your heart ❤ as a signal for help. Okay?
Blink if you need a rescue squad, doc! We'll blast through that wall for you like the kool-aid man!
Why a fake wall? Wouldn't a cellar have a real wall?
You’re right if she were tried in another state, say, NY or CA, the outcome would have been much different. My ex was an abuser in many different ways that made Mary’s experiences look like a day in the park. But never once did I think that killing him was a way out. Justice is best served by others.
You didn't consider murder because you are an intelligent well-balanced person who realizes that actions have consequences.
@@ExiledStardust are...are you defending a murderer??? tf...
There's got to be more to this story than just wearing a wig
Church of Christ is a cult that messes up your mind. If you were in it you’d understand how it could happen.
@@robinhensley6228 oh I bet
If you couple it with the idea that divorce is basically a sin, pressure to wear a wig and heels kind of forces the woman to do something she doesn't really want to or else commit a sin. That thought probably drove her to a psychotic breaking point. Any other type of person would just get out of the relationship or would be open to it. But neither of those things were real options to her.
@@walexander8378 They have three kids and he's mad that he has to go comfort one of them. That can't be a lifestyle that's helpful to a woman's sanity.
@@robinhensley6228 finally someone said it. I grew up in it and it fucked with my mind
Ah, yep, the old ‘conversation at gunpoint’ is an effective technique for focussing any discussion. It really should be a more widely known counselling option. As should the ‘pointing a gun at my own head screaming at you to tell me you love me’ move. It’s the basis for any stable relationship. Why yes I AM single, why do you ask?!
I would agree with you Dr. Grande with the second degree murder charge. The sentence she received seemed way too lenient to me.
Jury's sometimes have to compromise. A mostly female jury is always going to be lenient when a female claims abuse.
It's what it is. The major concern is she murdered her kids father, and then somehow got custody of those kids...
Me too
“My analysis more exciting than a shotgun blast” 🤦🏻♂️ 🤣. This guy kills it
Back in the early 80s when I was a preteen I visited my great grandmother in Knoxville, Tennessee. My great grandmother lived next door to Mary's family - Mary would have been a few years younger than I and apparently we played together while I was visiting. I remember my grandmother telling me that I met her when this news story broke in 2006.
I think those high heels and costume struck a nerve in the jury. Good move on the defense. Not sure if it was a good move for society.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Society was not present for this one😱😂👍
Ok that's literally what he said in the video
Yeah because people are idiots and easily manipulated. What a silly and weak argument that could only work on extremely uneducated and ignorant people. Even if he did ask her to wear that if she didn't want to that doesn't even come close to justification for murder. He killed him because she was an idiot and got scammed and was too much of a coward to face up to the truth with her husband so took the cowards way out. I hope someone gets this woman now that she is out
I feel like she played innocent because a rational person would just think that maybe she was into the costumes, if you hear of two out of context people engaging in costumed sex you would assume that's it's fun for them and both agreed. I feel like this was the case here too but she played up being a good christian wife and how depraved her husband was for forcing her to engage in this "bad" behavior. Apparently it worked
For everyone out there that knows what a PK is and the baggage that comes with them....well - I'd say there's WAY much more to story
PK (Preachers Kid)
My brother married one. I still can't get myself to like her!
Yeah, saw the movie about this, if what was in the movie is true, he was an a-hole to her. Can't remember everything, but he was having an affair, he was very controlling piece of ....
Amen!
I am a PK. It's not easy.
"You get a lot further with a kind word and a Gun...than you do with just a kind word"
- Capone - 😉
Yeah! But in which direction?
@@bthomson I guess...in the direction of getting what you want....as Dr.Todd mentioned the theory about her getting the gun out...🤫😉
As a former Army medic I would like to point out that weapons are not a good thing to bring to any family discussion. This American addiction to the idea of firearms as a method of problem solving is killing the country.
I didn’t know Mary but around 1976/77 Matthew Winkler’s family rented a farmhouse in rural Morrison Tn (Cannon County). Matthew Winkler was just a little boy then and I’d see kid toys in their front yard when I’d pass by. I never saw any kids outside playing though. Only one lady in our community liked the preacher or his wife (Matthew’s parents). My sister was a second grader then and Mrs Winkler was a substitute teacher for her class. My sister. Was terrified of her and would start sobbing whenever I’d drop her off and Mrs Winkler was subbing. My mother met Mrs Winkler during a school event and she said she was very condescending and rude. Word got around pretty quick that Mr Winkler was rather arrogant too. He didn’t stay at his new preaching position for long before he had to “move on”. The CoC try’s to keep any wrong-doing by church leaders quiet but it got around that Brother Winkler was a crook. - Anyhow, when this story broke my Mom called me up and told me it was them, our old neighbors. Daddy said that old Sum-beoch didn’t waste any time setting up a fund for the little girls (which he and his wife controlled). -. As time went by everyone in our community and McMinnville was rooting for Mary and were happy with the outcome. I bet those little girls were so happy to be reunited with their mother and not have to be raised by Matthew Winkler’s parents. I think Mary and the kids were all happier without Matthew around.
If Mary had tried to divorce Matthew he and his parents would have taken the children away from Mary. They had all the power and control, Mary had none. She snapped when he started mistreating the kids.
Thank you, this backstory gives helpful perspective.
Thanks for the insight. Maybe the reason Mary did not feel she owed his parents an apology.
Remember as we enter the middle of the work week always give 100%
Mon-11% Tues-24%
Wen-40% Thurs-23%
Fri-2%
Oh my goodness--YES! This is do true! 🤣
I watched her testimony, she cited the morning of the incident , she saw him with his hand over the babies face. She all described him blaming her for anything that went wrong in his day. She appeared to be emotionally shut down. I don’t agree with her shooting him, however she appeared to be emotionally abused. I think she was fearful he was going to hurt the children. My opinion
Thankyou
Yes.
Yea Sure, she protected the children... by peppering their Father to death with Lead.
I agree with you TL Campbell, it appears clear that she was fearful to discuss anything with him. I've been in a relatioship like that. For 30 years, Im just glad I never had a shotgun in the house. If that sounds calous that may be because one has to live it to truly understand what happens to ones mind.
Yes, when your spouse is emotionally shut down after spending all the money in a scam, it’s certainly excusable to kill them. After all, the shoes… 🙄
Your going to be ten times more widely viewed worldwide in just one year. You truly are an online star.
To this day I wonder that she was eventually given custody of her pre-teen daughters. If she could decide to murder due to being made fun of and misused by her husband, why did hte courts think she was safe to be a mother of teenagers? I don't mean that as a joke; she proved unable to behave wisely and make good decisions under emotional distress. To the point she murdered. So, how could any court trust her with chidren?
When it came to her husband, sure she didn't make very good choices. We can't really know how someone will finally break after years of abuse. It doesn't have anything to do about her capacity as a mother. Perhaps she believed they would be better without him? I don't know. She shouldn't have killed him, and I'm not trying to justify her actions. Given the circumstances I don't think a Judge would just hand over those kids if they didn't believe she posed no harm to her kids. I don't know, this whole case is bonkers
She’s a woman. The law treats them differently
Mary is a shady character. She knows how to lured for money, but didn't fled her husband.
@@ransakreject5221 Because they are different and anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant.
Things would have turned out different for mary had matthew not been a preacher. Also mary was somewhat a chameleon. She could change her demeaner in a matter of seconds.
I remember this case from years ago. I was immediately struck by the difference in their sizes - big guy, tiny wife. The black eye thing convinced me he was definitely not a nice guy, no matter how well he behaved in public and in the pulpit. I think it would have been better for her to have shot him full on in front of witnesses, without making any prior plan, but yes, I think she deserved to serve time for killing him. Had she pulled a gun on him in private and then backed down, can you imagine what he would have done to her for daring to threaten him with a gun? There is no doubt in my mind that many pastors' wives could tell hair-raising stories that could cause an immediate decline in the collection basket should the wives decide to speak up. Lol. I just read an article from 2010 saying that his parents had taken money from a trust fund set up for their granddaughters and were ordered to pay back $175,000, which is certainly interesting. I guess maybe an acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.
Imagine if the genders were reversed LMAO. You guys are insane.
Every woman who murders her husband was abused. Even when they weren't.
@@aarondavis8943 Sorry, I most definitely won't go that far with you. Wow, what you don't know about women. Lol. At age 70, my past work experience alone has shown me how incredibly devious and vengeful women can be. I worked in an office full of catty backstabbing women in a hospital for years and was thrilled to learn I could go home to work and get away from other women, and I did just that happily for 16 years until I retired. I'd rather work for and with a man any day of the week and did have good male supervisors in my experience. Some women these days have demonstrated they apparently have no problem whatsoever in bumping off a spouse or boyfriend if he can't measure up to their high expectations when it was their own bad choice, and many haven't been "abused" by anyone and have had good parents and examples in their lives. Nope, women need to own up and take responsibility for their dumb and childish decisions and grow up. Maybe you should tune into Pink Book Lessons here on you tube and check those "ladies" out.
She deserved to go to jail for much longer. She shot him and left him to bleed to death. She took away his chance to get help. He wasn’t a great husband, but he didn’t deserve that. Just get a divorce.
There are many out there who agree that Mary Winkler should have been given a much harsher prison sentence. Some believe that Mary should have been sentenced to life in prison whereas others believe that Mary should have gotten the Death Penalty, even though the Prosecution did not seek the Death Penalty against Mary; which is extremely surprising from the state of Tennessee. Seeing as how Tennessee is a Death Penalty state like the majority of the southeastern US- except for Virginia and West Virginia- it wouldn't have been surprising if the courts sentenced Mary Winkler to Death by Lethal Injection. Some people believe that Susan Wright aka the Blue-eyed Butcher should have been sentenced to death for stabbing her abusive piece of shit husband Jeff Wright 193 times and burying him in the backyard of their Houston area home in 2003. One standout moment of the Susan Wright trial was lead prosecutor Kelly Siegler reenacting the murder of Jeff Wright using a colleague of hers to portray Jeff and using the Wrights bed for the reenactment. Despite her claims that Jeff was abusive towards her; the jury convicted Susan Wright of First Degree Murder and sentenced her to twenty-five years in prison. Kelly Siegler painted Susan Wright as an unrepentant bloodthirsty psychopath who committed the murder to gain the benefits of Jeff's life insurance policy and asserted that if Susan was acquitted she would kill again if the opportunity were to present itself.
@@michaellovely6601 You are a FOOL if you believe ANY abuse STORY from a fe-MALE killer. There is NO evidence Susan Wright's husband abused her, NONE, just as there is NO evidence R Kelly abused anyone, all Kelly's accusers were caught in several LIES, for ex. "he held us as sex slaves chained to the walls" well the police investigated the scene and found the accusers getting drunk at a party, making crank calls! Right there the who sham of a trial should have been thrown out. These $MeToo cases are show trials, where MALE celebrities are deliberately scapegoated for the purpose of ushering in kangaroo justice
@Your mom I don’t get people who show love and support to abusers. 🚩
@@josephesposito3499 Jeff Wright was no saint either because he was addicted to cocaine and steroids which made him a rampaging monster. During the autopsy of Jeff Wright; the coroner discovered that Jeff had alarmingly high levels of cocaine in his system, so much so that his body hadn't metabolized all of the cocaine. Though Jeff did indeed have a history of abusing women. During Susan's appeal; Jeff's former fiancé Misty McMichael testified that Jeff had abused her during their relationship.
The way I heard it he did not get up to comfort the crying child. I heard that he covered the childs mouth and nose with his hand to quiet it when it cried. Also that he had done this with all the children. I heard that was one of the reasons she was mad.
She also alleged that he literally kicked her (physically) out of bed to go to the crying child. Some church members stated that Mary seemed frightened of her husband and would go from friendly and laughing to silent and cowed when he came near. That doesn't justify murder, of course, but I think there's more to this than meets the eye.
Yes, correct...it still doesn't justify murder.
It doesn't but if this dude was risking killing his child because crying annoyed him and he literally kicked his wife to make her take care of the kids I meannnnnnn did we really lose much?
Well that’s what the perp said. Doesn’t make it true. She could’ve called someone. I think it was all because she didn’t want him to know she was stupid enough to fall for a money scam.
But remember a murderer can be a liar too!!!!
I am in TN and I remember when this happened and I watched the trial on tv. Followed the reports closely. Mary was a very meek and timid kind of woman. Which made her easy to dominate, which her husband did. She was a pastors wife and who is gong to believe her story of abuse over his? He was the charismatic one and she was the quiet and obedient wife. I also remember her saying that the night she shot him was because he had become a threat to the daughter that he went to check on that night. I can't remember the details she gave, but I do remember thinking that was probably what made her snap and kill him. It is one thing for a wife to take the abuse of her husband, but most mothers will panic and fight for a threat or even a perceived threat to their children. Mary said he had been getting more threatening toward their children. Mary felt like she had no one to help her in the abuse situation. No one would believe her and did not think divorce would be an option. She believed he would get custody of the children, because he was the one in control of her and her life. She felt helpless and pushed in a corner. She felt like her children might be in danger. How much of what she said was true and how much of it was just her perception. We don't know. But the jury believed her as did her lawyer. The meekest, weakest and most frightened of people have their breaking point. And Mary reached hers that night. A lot of women will kill their abusive spouse in their sleep, because they feel that is their only chance of escape from their nightmare. So they sneak up on them. I can remember another famous wife that burned her abusive husband up when she set their house on fire while he was asleep. Mary's story is such a tragic one. I especially felt the pain of Mathews parents as they set in the courtroom during her trial. They both set their so stoic and without visable emotion. Domestic violence is no joke.
Thankyou for those insights. I understand her situation better now.
I had wondered if there might not have been something with the daughters. If that's true then I understand.
No, actually, her own testimony referred to a sex act she did not want to do. Quite understandably, but above anything else, there was no immediate threat to her, or a child.
The baby was crying and she woke him up with her crying. It made him mad, so he went into her room and put his hand over her mouth (or nose and mouth?) to stop her from crying so he could go back to sleep. Mary saw what he did and became enraged. She thought he might suffocate their daughter. Of course, this is all Mary's account. The husband isn't alive to tell his side of the story or if any of this is actually true or not.
Thank you for posting this more in depth explanation.
I can't help it, this one cracked me up! You are very entertaining and l like your dry wit! Loved that ad also.
I was shocked by this verdict. I could not understand how she basically walked. Can you comment on the R. Kelly verdict? Would love to hear your analysis!
Yes!! Would love to hear what the good Dr has to say about that garbage excuse for a "man" R kelly! So glad he was found guilty! It's about time!
You had me dying on the floor there too, Dr Grande, ...laughing when I heard that bit about showing her love. Mary's biggest problem was that she just coudn't say no...no to the dressing up, no to the con-artists and no to herself before she shot her husband. She could have left him before shooting him or even before but 'no'. It surprises me that woman are not able to go against the will of their husband or partner but they are able to kill them. And as I understand it because he would find out about the money. Talk about extreme measures not to hear his negative comments anymore. As for him, he should have married a taller woman with natural long hair. 🤭🧟👋
The last line of your comment had me rolling! 🤣
You mean, "was she impulsive?" of course she was... but not in this case, specifically, she was reckoning before the fact. This is a pattern I see often in female criminals, narcissistic victimism.
I guess the lesson is: when your partner makes a huge mistake financially, as did Mary (and as did my sister's partner,) TREAD VERY CAREFULLY... with the damage done, becoming infuriated helps no one and could actually be dangerous.
I am suddenly very glad I'm not married.
I don't think Matthew was that bad of a husband - I think Mary found herself in a hole of her own digging and didn't know how to get out. Matthew would've been furious about the Nigerian money scam and irregularities at the bank and rather than confront him about it, Mary just shot him. Much easier than an argument.
Or, just walk away...easy!
I do too. She hated to admit the financial mess she had gotten into. She didn’t want to look like the little lying fool she was 😡
I think so too. I think he may have had a bad temper( people forget pastors are human too) and he may have intimidated her, but from all I have read of this case, I don’t believe he was abusive. Even the daughter said she never saw her dad mistreat her mom. To me this is just another double standard, I do think women are treated leniently by the justice system, if this was the opposite and the husband did this I think he would have been sentenced to life.
Shotgun marriage counseling! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 The shade of it all!
She got away with cold blooded murder. My sister did more time and parole than that for a first time drug offense.
Agree 💯
Sadly that seems how it goes. A friends dad murdered and did 2 years and another friend had a nonviolent drug case and did 10 years. He was addicted not a bad person. The other guy was still a bad guy after 2 yrs in prison.
War on drugs-murder ok. 🙄
@@Gabriellakittywitch Looks exactly right n Fetterman wants to legalize Fentanyl for heaven’s sake. Everyday thousands are dying from this killer drug. I think Mary should’ve gotten 20 yes in prison. That was premeditated it I ever saw it. I’m scared of that mousy liar.
Dr Grande is getting better and more hilarious by the episode!
In my opinion, in early videos,
his deadpan quips were accidentally funny. I feel like he embraced his inner comedian and now we all get to enjoy the fruit of his labors!
Does anyone else find themselves saying “in a situation like this..” in conversations?
Well done, Dr G❤️
"I'd hate to think what would happen if she didn't love him" LMAO
What would (or could) have happened, had she not loved him.
@@kitchfacepalm Maybe it would have been a much slower, more painful death ?
Maybe she would have ordered him to put on the 8 inch heels and wig at gunpoint ?
@@brucejohnson9696 loll😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
I think the jury were behaving almost as irrationally as Winkler...
Yes. First, she entangles herself in a ridiculous scam without discussing it with her husband. I don't blame him for becoming irate. I remember that Nigerian e-mail scam with all the misspellings and grammatical errors; it would have only have appealed to a particularly naive or greedy person. Secondly, all defendants are entitled to a robust defense, but character assassination of the victim is inexcusable.
@@JeannetteShoreland I'd be furious too, if I'd fallen for a scam like that one
Ohhh fo shooo!
I have no doubt - that jury was comprised entirely of religious nuts, capable of being convinced of the dumbest shit anyone could imagine!!
And it’s fucking damn near impossible to out-dumb the nonsense in the bible….
white knight lawyers show up out of the woodworks, and hysterical women on a jury try to let her walk. Yikes
It's like this Tennessee jury was made up of a bunch of prayer group Susans in menopause. If not for the two men and the ONE female that had any sense of rational logic, she would have gotten off just based on her bullshit claim about roleplay sex - which she was actively consensual to. Dumbest shit I've ever heard.
I hope their daughters are okay.
Great video Dr Grande!!
That's so bizarre to think that a husband who likes for his own wife to wear heels and a wig would be seen as being a sexual deviant.
Someone mentioned that she was lesbian, I can see that, because of religion she had to marry, but the sex, that was to much.
I might be wrong but the implication could be he preferred her to dress like a hooker or prostitute. Since he is a pastor and the community is extremely religious bible belt area it was viewed by them as deviant behavior. Granted in a lot of areas like this the only discussions about sex are abstinence before marriage nothing else is openly discussed so a lack of understanding about what is considered deviant behavior isn't surprising. Dr. Grande mentioned the jury was mostly female, it'd be interesting to know if they were mostly white women around the defendants age as they could have seen themselves in her and been overly sympathetic. I believe the prosecution should have pushed more for an even demographic split in jurors. I have seen the opposite case happen as well with a female defendant having all male or almost all male jurors and the evidence of self defense very strong unlike this case but they get a much more severe sentence. I personally think having an almost even number of genders and a wider range of ages and ethnicities makes for a more fair trail and less chance of biases but that's not what most lawyers are looking for in jury selection, just what will win their case.
This is so vanilla by today’s standards. She must have been extremely boring.
@@mariemm200 Ikr, that jury would have executed me.
High heels and a wig? That is some very tame role-play.
Its not the wig and heels, but that he FORCED her. Any forced sexual act is assault. Even between spouses. That was legally cleared up in 2005 in Tennessee. Its crazy it took that long.
I kept up with this story. From a legal point of view.
Your analysis is spot on.
But, it's the humor that keeps Me coming back.
You're the best.
💕🇺🇸
Your subtle innuendos are absolutely hysterical! I thoroughly enjoy listening to you.I agree that your analysis is absolutely more exciting than a shotgun blast!
Another toxic relationship. As we have seen with the Gabby Petito case, sometimes there is only one way out. The most dangerous time for an abused victim is when they try to leave the relationship, Mary must have known this on some level. Trauma bonded victims in abusive situations really don’t have the same choices as regular couples. If Gabby had killed Brian I guess the media would be treating her as a second degree murderer. What kind of a world are we in when we can’t tell the difference between a victim and an abuser.
Absolutely !!! Thankyou. So glad to see someone else who understands abuse when they see it.
Another great one Dr. I’ve lived a stones throw from there most of my life also raised in a very conservative church. Some of the preachers around here are very creepy and their families seem to be very controlled (brainwashed) by the husband. Glad the military gave me a way out to see beyond the bible belt. After returning to take care of my mother I see these people in a different light and feel sorry for the kids. Keep up the great work. Thanks Dr
Oh no Dr.Grande!!! Not shoes and a wig!! How horrible!!! It seems cut and dried. Poor kids!!!! Great job!!!!!
This case occurred close to where I grew up. I remember hearing about it as a kid, and then reading online about it as an adult. So bizarre to hear Dr. G talk about towns that are so familiar to me.😳
Yea it's interesting. Like when he says Knoxville I can picture it in my head because it's right down the road. Most stories the places are just names I know nothing about. Makes it more interesting.
10 women and 2 men? prosecution really dropped the ball on that jury selection. not that im complaining.
Man, imagine your brother or son being shot like that in his sleep, suffering and dying all alone on the floor… and then his murderer gets off with just 200-something days in jail. Sheesh.
@ What a strange perspective you have. You might want to seek help.
I've always had mixed feelings about this case. Was she abused? Sure, what she described can certainly be classified as abuse. However, when she went and got the shotgun on her own without an ongoing physical altercation she became the instigator. She absolutely could have left. The fact that she also had a nearly all female jury probably had something to do with her light punishment. The whole case is bonkers and the children are the only ones I feel sorry for.
The female bias is real. Imagine if a man had tried any part of this defense
There was a problem with money, she was abused, but she could've left him. In Brazil a woman paid to have her husband killed because divorce it is against God's law and the church does not see that with sympathy. But murder...her entire family is involved, sons and daughters, even the grandkids, it is just unbelievable she thought she was going to get away with. For Mary it worked, but she is kind of shady!
@@laurenmay2098 news flash. Thou shalt not murder.
@@laurenmay2098 Was she? I missed whether there was conclusive evidence of that. Idk what Brazil has to do with it. There's always penalties in divorce. We don't sympathize with men who murder their wives to avoid alimony and the like.
@@PajamaJazama I am saying a pastor in Brazil, killed her husband, also a pastor, because the divorce is not good for the church. They don't see you as good by being divorced. That's why I mention that case. Who is to say that Mary didn't think the same? Rather killed than divorce it? I don't know, but she is savy with their money, she is no domestic abused wife.
The phone line was cut so they'd be no hope of 911. He was shot in the back while sleeping, so there's no self defense or even gunpoint negotiations here.
This is murder. She's a maniac.
Exactly I posted a similar comment.
I agree with you; she lied through her teeth.......
Blame the victim. Sad. Great analysis, Dr. Grande.
It seems many of these spousal murders involve a spouse trying to cover up their financial fraud.
She did not know it was a scam. She had been isolated by her husband and probably forbidden from talking to anyone about their money
problems or her mental state
She was scammed after feeling desperate enough to think an email from a stranger was a gift from God.
Someone close to me had this scam happen in their family the victim was a Pastors Widow believing her lending money to someone in need would bring in monetary blessings. Her kids tried to break through the illusion but it didn't stop until she lost her paid for house and her retirement savings.
In that house reality wasn't reality and living hand to mouth and being expected to put up with marital rape constantly while seeming perfect, content and serene.
Her husband had what he wanted and could not let her show any imperfection in their 4th Baptist Church illusion of a life.
The family photo shows Mary's
stress and the anger on their middle daughters face was a reflection of the family secrets. The fact that both parents bought or kept that picture shows how dysfunctional the couple had become.
She snapped and finally ran away from the train wreck that was their lives. Living under a microscope with friends and family excluded led her to that final act. She did not shoot the children or herself and if her husband had not reprimanded her for not hearing their scared daughter, that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
She did wrong, knew it and expected to pay for it but she had not been planning for that to happen. Taking the kids and leaving was the sane thing to do it did not even occur to her she could do that and then fix their problems later. Temporary Psychosis.
"Blast your way to reconciliation." - Dr. Grande and his Grande-isms HAHAHA 😂😂
Hi Dr. Grande, Having a New Video from you Each Day is like Christmas Everyday.♥
She figured he'd be mad being mortally wounded an' all 😆, You mortally wound ME Dr. G 🤣😂
Yeah, that got me laughing too 😂🤣
Omg I died 🤣🤣🤣☠️
What is even the point of a justice system if the perpetrator can always escape the judgment with an appeal to emotion? It's like having a 'bad childhood' gives you at least 1 free card for murdering someone in cold blood. At least a very weak sentence.
You're the only poster who gets it. She deserves whatever a MAN would get
@@Blobby192 Exactly, also R Kelly was FRAMED as well, GOSSIP & HYPOTHISES is NOT evidence of a crime , Kelly's accusers had too many inconsistencies in their claims, "he chained us to the wall" turned out to be a PRANK CALL to the police! why did this not result in throwing the case out? Unfortunately evidence is no longer required to convict MEN, just a hatred of the MAN is all that's needed. We are a banana republic thanks to the unstable influence of wo-MEN
@joey The point is the prison system is clogged full of people and there's no point in taking someone's life who won't reoffend. Lets say a boy r@pes and kills his girlfriend then says "I did it for fun I've always wanted to" lets say another boy shoots his dad who has been r@ping and beating him. I mean why give both these Boys the same sentence when one can be rehabilitated? It's just more money frm the tax payers and a young man loses the rest of his life needlessly.
@joeph Esposito you are all over these comments shitting on women, calling women names, above said the military has been "pussified" since women are allowed in it and now you say rkelly was framed when he is on video pissing on a underage girl. Get help before you kill A woman cause you clearly hate them.
@UCzx2JX-LZ495u8cGPcgGuVQ first of all, it’s vital to the integrity of a functional justice system that civilians can’t just take justice into their own hands without any consequences.
Secondly; we don’t know the extent of the abuse this woman endured. Her husband asking her to wear high heels and a blonde wig hardly equals abuse. And it was just used to garner sympathy with the conservative female jurors.
Thirdly; the wife was hiding financial woes from her husband so she had motive to kill besides the alleged abuse.
I can tell you this from experience, when you leave a toxic person they do ask "why " because they don't think anything is wrong.
Exactly...and lucky to survive their insanity once told it's time for them to go. I had the deputy tell me I should not be home without a firearm or to have someone with a gun come stay with me, that I needed to be terrified (because at this point I was nearly immune to how crazy his behavior was) and that they would not hesitate to shoot him on site as his behavior had become so out of control. And no, this is the side of the narcissist that no one except the immediate spouse and kids sees....until narcissistic injury occurs and they unravel. Which is what both LEO and the judge saw in my case. And we don't talk about it because we are told that what is happening to us is our fault. These aholes are the devil...and will go on to do the same to the next person, thinking their behavior is fine and they are perfect. Smdh....
@@karelancona7402 🕊🙏
@@terrijamison9154 I apologize for the vehemence in my response...guess I'm still a bit reactivated by some things. :)
@@karelancona7402 I didn't take it that way. It's okay, I understand.
I live near Selmer and learned she isn't the only female who "got away" with killing a husband.
Who else?
My opinion
She was religious, at the beginninig you said. Traditional as community they lived in. For her, it was normal to be obedient.
I don't think they argued, knowing all that. She was under constant criticism and trying to satisfy his urges and values.
All that acumulated and stress because of scam and first day at work made her did it. His "why" doesn't say he didn't do anything, but he didn't know he did.
She snapped.
Thank you
Abuse is a damaging problem. Living with abuse daily can erode any empathy for the spouse badgering the other mate. I lived it for 26 years and it cuts deeply. Being a ministers wife I understand her pain.
I do so love your videos, Dr. Grande. Personally, I believe that the reason she served so little time was because of the very large number of women who were, at one time or another, subjected to years of Narcissistic abuse. It is NEVER obvious to people outside the immediate family, and even if they do witness it, blow it off as "boys being boys". One of the VERY few times I have ever disagreed, respectfully, sir. I have lived it, but no, I never murdered the perp, lol.
I don’t think anyone looks at abuse by a grown ass man and thinks to themselves “boys being boys”. Fact of the matter is that the justice system in the US is skewed to favor women. They receive lighter sentences for committing the same crimes and are more likely to have favorable outcomes in custody disputes. This is because women as seen as protectors, nurturers and mothers while men are seen as violent and abusive and this more deserving of jail time.
Sentence way too short
Oh I think a lot of people don't give two fucks about that, including a whole bunch of (mostly white) women who elected a man who was friends with Jeffrey Epstein for 17 years, has dozens of SA accusations, 3 wives and said shit like "grab em by the pussy" for the entire world to hear. Conservative Christians care about a whole different bunch of despicable stuff. Narcissistic abuse ain't one of them.
Having lived the joy of narcissistic abuse I can see where someone could just have enough and snap.
Her Mom was dead, his Mom always excused his behaviors but didn't see the worst of it. I don't find psychological abuse a reason for this type of murder, but I do think she had a psychological break and needs to continue receiving treatment.
You are the hardest worker, Dr. Grande! 💜
Well too much abuse verbal or physical enough is enough by husband can drive a woman crazy compounded by financial and children
If she had fled with her children or filed for divorce, who would get custody in today’s society? The abused woman or the good preacher who denies any wrongdoing?
There is still (in the age of Me Too) who would take her husband’s side.
I can’t imagine the stress this woman was under. The most important part of her life was her children (one could argue not important since shooting their father is devastating to them). She struggled against her fear against her husband (taking her word) and losing the kids.
There is a chasm size hole in our legal system against options for abused women.
Without being in her head, nobody really knows what she struggled with.
I agree that there aren’t nearly enough ways for abused women to safely leave their abusers. I just watched ID’s “Evil Lives Here.” THAT husband deserves killing (after beating up his wife regularly he ended up slaughtering another woman and her two small kids). In the case discussed by Dr. Grande, however, she could’ve divorced him and tried to keep her kids. She could’ve fled with the kids (though she may not have had money). Murdering him was far from her only solution.
Then you leave without your kids. You do not killed, period.
@@Ceerads I totally agree that murder is wrong, full stop. But… if you’re cornered or feel threatened, then the age old assumption that the person will react with “fight or flight”. With the wide range of mental issues (and extremes of each issue), are we really surprised when tragedies like this occur?
Dr. Grande listed observable behavior noted by mental professionals, but without knowing what is in her head, it could be real, manipulative, or something else.
Plato’s Cave Allegory comes specifically to mind.
@@laurenmay2098 I agree, that’s what an emotionally balanced person does. But I thought Dr. Grande’s mission is to teach and learn about mental health topics. In this case, applying what I’ve learned so far, is that mentally challenged individuals don’t react the same as a mentally healthy person. I’m arguing, that given an emotionally distressed person, under stress (which we don’t know is true or an act) will react to stressors that an emotionally balanced person will either disregard or at the very least not commit murder.
I guess I got this channel wrong. I thought it was about mental health, not meting out justice like Judge Judy, which the vast majority of commenters seem to prefer. My bad…
@@danbuchman7497 do you think she was emotionally challenged when she expended the money and continue to lie about it? In my opinion she is a capable person. I remember watching the trial, her in the witness stand, boy oh boy, she was not traumatized, not even remorseful. I was victim of emotional abuse and my ex is alive. Just saying, she is a manipulative person and planned the murder. But she is a petite little woman, fragile, so we don't think she is capable of murder. 25 to life with possibility of parole.
I think your absolutely correct with your analysis. Thank you Dr. Grande. I think Mary was definetly being mistreated. I think she just snapped. I really do. Your analysis was certainly much more interesting than a shotgun blast. Thanks again Dr. G. Your the best at what you do.
I grew up in a small town near there. There wouldn't be a report of abuse. Talking to your wife like trash and making her do all the child raising is 99% of marriages I grew up seeing. It's so normalized between that and churches around here pretty much preaching women are lost lambs who need to be controlled by the god fearing husband she probably didn't even know she was being abused. Even if she did a pastors wife wouldn't have a snow balls chance in he'll of reporting abuse unless it was really obvious and extremely. She would be chased outta town.
Chris watts also just snapped after being abused. But you wont show any sympathy for him.
"The Straw that Broke the Camels Back" To my mind, it is the build up of all the negative things Mary was living through. To a person who can deal with many stressors, can mistakenly view Mary's actions has callous and cold, since she was not in immediate danger. The cumulative stressors leading up to the incident, The money situation, the requirement of wigs and degrading sexual encounters, and then him being angry about having to care for their daughter who was crying. (who knows what was said and done when that took place). Mary may have tried to calm herself down but was too enflamed to succeed. A single derogatory word could have been the straw that weighed too much to handle reasonably. Although I would have suggested more time for her, what she did was terribly wrong, but I think the charge she was found guilty of was appropriate.
I believe you grasp it. It is a situation where unless one has experienced it and actually lived it day after day one cannot even imagine such an act.
I remember when this happened.
I don't normally find murder funny, but I have laughed over this story a few times over the years.
And when there is a church named "4th St. Church", I think there are WAY too many churches in that community.
This church is about 35 miles from me. We are deep in the Bible Belt and, yes, there is a church on every other block! In "our" defense, these small towns do not have very much to offer(no malls; no facilities for entertainment, etc, etc). Social interaction occurs at church or at school(if you have children). If you aren't involved in one of these enteties, you are pretty much on your own.
It's very frustrating!
Mary's attorney is a legend in this part of the country. I doubt he has lost a case. We are in the Bible Belt and people put pastors on a pedestal. Behavior like he did isn't very well received. Mary paid in other ways....after murder, she developed Muscular Sclerosis and had many health problems. It was a surprise to most people that her sentence was so light.
Religion and NARCISSISM… nice COMBO
@@sebastiangimenez400 Yep! 🤪
I had a friend from Ireland, a place that has been devastated by religious wars for a thousand years, come visit me in Alabama. One of the first things he noticed was how many churches we have over here. He said there were two on every corner and three more behind them!
The clothing in the bedroom part isn’t shocking to me. It’s the asking permission to get her hair done, which kind of makes me feel like their sex life also included some emotional abuse. Clothing alone is not the issue. It’s what’s behind it. Did he force her because he knew she hated it? Was he making her pretend to be someone else in an attempt to make her feel like she wasn’t good enough? I’m worried that’s what was going on. I’m a hair stylist. Every woman who had a guy tell her how and when to style her hair, had a bad marriage. Most were cheated on, some were abused, and many eventually got divorced. I wish she’d just gotten a divorce. Not that I care that he is dead, but he really should have faced some consequences before dipping out in his sleep. She could have ruined his life of that info came out during their divorce. He could have felt the gravity of his behavior, but instead, he went to sleep and never woke up, without ever having to face judgment or shame over how he treated her.
I went to church of Christ for 20 years my whole family went there ,my uncle was elder there. They are very condemning and women are not allowed to serve in the unless it is concerning little kids, like Sunday school. They preach that they are the only church, the true churchI t was so judgmental and hateful that I couldn't take it any so I can see why this woman was so messed up!!Kay Collins Indiana
I was a bit surprised he was a Church of Christ pastor, but then again, I know little about that denomination. A distant cousin of mine is married to a Church of Christ pastor but handles herself very well, not on the timid side. I'm much more familiar with Baptists (and there are many flavors - Southern, Independent, Landmark, Primitive, Reformed, etc.). Oh well, there are phonies and hypocrites in any group you can name. We'd be naive to believe otherwise.
How big was Mary? How big was her husband? In many cases, abused wives murder their husbands when they are asleep or otherwise defenseless because to confront them during an attack would be suicide. Are we supposed to let ourselves be killed because we happen to be smaller/weaker/less experienced with using violence? It sounds to me like hubby dearest expected his wife to cook, clean, take care of the kids, probably do all the housework AND put HIM on a pedestal. (8" heels) This after a full day at a new job. Then he's angry that he has to take care of his little girl because he woke up more easily. Parenting is obvioiusly beneath him. Would he have reacted the same way if it was his little boy? Then he expects her to get up and make his coffee and get him ready to go to work while he has a lie in. Then she has to get the kids breakfast and ready to go, drop them off, and THEN she can take care of herself, or more likely go on to another full day of work. Sorry, guys, this is the definition of abuse. She has no voice, no agency, is treated like a slave by her husband. She goes upstairs to tell him that since she now has a job herself, he's going to have to pitch in more, AND HE'S ASLEEP! Doesn't give a crap about her. He got his way, everything is right with the world.
What she should have done was packed the kids up and left after he was gone for the day, then divorced him. He'd never work as a pastor again.
Dr Grande, you're more stimulating that a shotgun blast any day! Thanks for the great upload today! Have a good week
Are shotgun blasts stimulating? Possibly the opposite if anything.
@@eadweard. It was in reference to the last thing Dr Grande said before the video ended
Boom😀
@@tomlewis5542
💥BOOM .. Shaka-lakah
Shaka-lakah, Shaka-lakah
Shaka --> BOOM 💥
You're laughing at noises
Lol, counseling called "blast your way to reconciliation" is honestly too funny. Thanks for the smile Doc!😆
What the hell? Are these people certifiably crazy to give up their whole family? There is always divorce.
Are you at all aware of what they are taught to believe from the bible?
Eating human flesh and drinking human blood, talking animals, Genital mutilation - CRAZY
SUPER-FUCKIN-CRAZY-WACKOS
It does seem as though some Christians pick out what I would consider the least Christian constructs to adhere to! What about "Thou shalt not kill" or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!"? I question the teachings of any church that produces people like this!🤔
In a very religious and conservative small Southern town like Selmer, TN; divorce is widely frowned upon and the preachers are treated with God-like status. Some people in both Selmer, TN and in McMinnville, TN- where the trial was held- believe that Mary Winkler should have been sentenced to life in prison for murdering her husband in cold blood. The state of Tennessee did not seek the Death Penalty against Mary.
The reality of it all, is that
NOBODY knows exactly what goes on behind closed doors. It's amazing of the Dark Side that exists in the lives of countless people...
Too many assume that everyone acts the same in their private lives, as they pretend to be 'That Good Ol' Boy' in the workplace. Some of us pretend that we are all 'Living the Dream' 24/7. Very sad, indeed.
This happened in my hometown. I was away on active duty at the time it happened. Lots of differing opinions among people I know.
Not a surprise a fe-MALE murderer gets a pass in the same generation that allows affirmative action wo-MEN into the pussified military
@@josephesposito3499 I have no issues with having a woman in the field.. ...
And if it means I gotta be stronger than all the better...
@@SegaDream131 Ok, SIMP you're part of the problem.
@@josephesposito3499 Hey Joe Joe how's the ride on your scooter.....
I'm sorry I'm sorry.....
I shouldn't have said that you ride a motor camel.....
I meant gurl bike 🚳😃🗡️🗡️🗡️
Jesus Joseph get over your hatred of women. It's pathetic
Oh my gosh, my family & I lived in Selmer when this murder occurred. Their middle daughter was on our basketball team. Selmer is a very small town. This was an extreme shock in this community. Yip...her defense would not have worked in all areas of country. She had good counsel, for her anyway.
Based on what I recall of this case, and on the good doctors analysis, my guess is that he was an emotional and psychological abuser, and possibly a porn addict. I’m not justifying what she did, but if she was raised to be a good little church girl who was taught all her life that divorce is not an option, she believed she had no choice but to endure his abuse and hope it would get better.
Prosecutor did a really poor job on jury selection.
Mary was my neighbor a few years ago. She really is a very sweet women and great mother!
Dropped out of college because of financial inability. Go to college to be financially stable but going to college requires you to be financially stable before your life even exist. What a dilemma the US puts us in
Great analysis again. Totally bizarre she got off so easy. Love your shotgun comments🎱. Thanks Dr G😊💚💚
Conservatism has nothing to do with being appalled at someone being forced into wearing a costume for sex.
It's not kink shaming if what is being shamed is not consensual and not fun for everyone involved!
Liberal folks are, very much, into consent you know.
Dr. Grande, your clothes closet probably looks as colorful as mine with the exception of the color palette. Any ideas concerning a person's color selection? It would be interesting to hear.
Its so difficult to think clearly after years of gaslighting, emotional, verbal, financial and physical abuse and many calls to the police, I wanted my husband to disappear. Not saying I would have killed him but I would not have shed a tear if he dropped dead.
Why does the batterer always get the benefit of the doubt?
@@grandmaida7819
5:43
6:15
11:33.
Also, neighbors witnessed violent behavior because 9:13 and had reason to believe he mistreated her 9:18 and 11:07.
Furthermore a father who thinks he's above and resents comforting thier own child 2:10.
Too often batterers are given the benefit of the doubt by people who are ignorant of what spousal abuse actually is. It is not always broken bones or bashed out teeth.
I could be way off but if it looks like poop, smells like poop, I don't have to taste it to think he sounds like a prick.