@@OurHiltsHurtand he had the nerve to be all pissie about it and start using his dragons to burn dorne for two years if I remember correctly I mean the guy expected people NOT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND FIGHT BACK
@@mohammadhosseini6675To be fair he had to fight only 3 of the 7 Kingdoms he conquered so far. Vale knelt, North knelt, Isles and Riverlands weren’t a fight, he just had to barbecue a family and all the lords helped him. Of the 3 he had to fight, Lannisters and Gardeners were grilled in open field in one afternoon. The only battle he won fair and square was against Argelac Durrandon, and only because it was raining.
@@project_ronin4789If you think that's true you're an idiot, dragon chooses it's master otherwise they can kill or severely burn the tamer, so no grandpa didn't give aegon his dragon, he made him his own. Unlike barratheon who got murked by a boar 🐗
@@project_ronin4789 No, he kinda did caught him... The dragons dont surrender to anyone who has Valyrian blood, they choose who they obbey (we still dont know why). For example: During the Dance of The Dragons, a lot of people died triying to claim the wild/riderless dragons. So claiming the most powerful there was, and making him obbey him like Balerion did, is a pretty big feat... Specially when considering out of his 4 known riders, Balerion only ever obeyed him and Maegor, not quite Aerea nor Viserys.
Roberts Rebellion was one of the Greatest 'me and the boys' moments I've heard of. There was no intricate plan or scheme, no prophecy, just this great family of destiny with 'the chosen one' (the archetype not TPTWP) leading their armies getting wrecked by a bunch of pissed off lads with no plan beyond 'kick Targaryen ass and shag girls, and Roberts out of girls' Finally the image of Rhaegar fighting like this super elegant warrior of myth and legend only to get absolutely destroyed in public by a mad lad wielding a giant hammer is so funny to me.
You left something out. Aegon showed up prepared for conquest against a bunch of unsuspecting people. Robert had to defeat an enemy that was already engaged in war and was militarily strong.
@@OurHiltsHurt To be fair it was a crumbling superpower at that point and Robert had the north behind him which is half the continent, at least in size.
If Bobby B had a dragon, he wouldn’t actually ride it himself. You can’t smash people with a hammer from dragonback, and what’s the point of fighting when you can’t cave in someone’s head with a comically oversized warhammer.
Yeah I never understood Henry Cavil being Aegon. I can see Aegon being muscular but not Henry Cavil buff. Now prime Robert would be perfectly played by Henry Cavil.
Henry Cavill is too old now to be Robert during the rebellion unfortunately. He was only supposed to be around 20/21 im sure. He definitely has the Baratheon look tho.
@@hdmb9180 I know, he still looks pretty young though and they could do some de-aging. But it might be better to find someone younger. I saw clips of him in this medieval movie and he fits it perfectly.
I used to think the Targaryens were overrated but when you think about it, it’s more fair to say they’re properly rated. They were a middle of the pack house in Valyria, and Aegon only conquered six of the seven kingdoms with the greatest weapons in the world. It can be argued the top dogs back in old Valyria would’ve conquered all seven even if dorne used their guerrilla tactics. Off that alone house Targaryen were just the big fish in the now small pond of Westeros. But to be fair to them even after losing all their dragons in the dance, they were able to hold the realm together and reign for another 150 or so years without their main weapon so I think that evens it out a bit.
@@OurHiltsHurtthey wouldn´t have gotten bent. The sand would have been molten to glass, everything organic turned to ash. They would have made an example out of them.
It’s so awesome to hear other people that feel the same way. Robert was a fucking boss and he had every right to do what he did. I hated in the show they say “Robert’s rebellion was built on a lie”. Uhhh no. I think Ned’s family would disagree vehemently.
Yeah it's hard to say it was based on a lie when the king ordered Robert and Ned to be killed because of what Ned's older brother did. Robert and Ned really had no choice but to go to war or else they would have been burned alive.
8:45 Its literally the meme with the kid being praised in that pool while the other is drowning, and then theres a rotting skeleton at the bottom. Except its the Targs, Valeryons and Celtigar respectively.
@@OurHiltsHurt Everyone forgets that Aerys called of Robert's and Ned's to be handed over so he could probably burn them like he did Ned's daddy, they just say "Robert started a war for Lyanna"
@@tanimal3964 well thats after the fact. but the rebellion WAS built on the lie that Lyanna was kidnapped. which led to Rickards and Brandons deaths at the hands of the mad king.
@@Themrine2013 Its not after the fact. The Rebellion started not because of lyanna nor because of Rickard and Brandon. It started when Aerys called for the heads of Robert and Ned. Lord Arryn declined and called for his banners and sent Robert and Ned to there lands to call for theirs. Lord Arryn call for his banners started the rebellion, and was a direct result of Aerys calling for their heads. Hell it technically was still kidnapping. As you no matter who you are cannot take a 15 year old daughter of a major lord without asking.
I am a simple man, I see a pro Baratheon video I give a like, and you are totally right, Boby B reconquered the throne without dragons and leading his armies
Ikr Robert had like 3 kingdoms and conquered 7 with his own army. Harren the Black is more impressive than Aegon but people simp for him because he married his sisters and had dragons. Like Harren actually built a monument Aegon didn’t build anything but a raggedy fort and a city without plumbing filled with crime.
Harren the black didn’t build a monument, his slaves built it. Pretty sure Aegon could have built something to rival Harrenhal if he was also into slave labour. Especially since dragon fire is said to have stone fusing properties. If Harren had dragons he wouldn’t unite the realm, he’d turn them into a continent of slaves.
As for Robert, I’ll give him all the credit he’s due. But let’s remember that he only “conquered” the 7 kingdoms as the majority of them were already united for the last 300 years. It’s all they knew. Relying on his Targaryen blood (that came from Aegon) is how most people accepted him.
@@OurHiltsHurtnobody over estimates kingslanding we all know what it is. Oldtown and lannisport are clearly far greater. How gulltown whiteharbor and sunpear rank we just dont know enough about them.
Yes! As much as Mark Addy killed the role, I think they made Robert a worse king and a worse person in a lot of ways. Like In the breastplate stretcher scene, in the show Robert just says that he thought being kin meant he could do whatever he wanted. In the books he apologizes to Ned about what happened to Sanaa’s direwolf, said that he’s staying the king to keep Cersei and Joffrey from ruling instead and talks about how he didn’t want to marry her, but Lord Arryn (who I like so this isn’t shade against him) decided she’d be the queen to secure the Lannister’s (whic doesn’t make a ton of sense imo, but that’s a different issue). I think Robert ranks somewhere around Aerys I as a king. He was just middling.
@@OurHiltsHurt Oh. Just conquering? I didn’t watch the video yet. He was definitely a lot better there. Aegon had dragons and he still couldn’t conquer Dorne, but Barristan was confident that Robert would have crushed the Dornish if he knew about their Targaryen restoration plot.
@@CatotheE yeah it really does. Either making him look so weak that he couldn't keep his wife and child from trying to enact any form of pointless revenge, or that he could have stopped it but didn't care about how letting cersie order lady's death would affect sansa and ned. His reasoning for abandoning the throne makes him like a mediocre king considering the whole notion behind heirs.
Aegon wasn’t even that great of a ruler considering we hear that he govern mostly in Dragonstone compared to the future city of Kingslanding, and he let his Sisters and his Bastard Brother to be the ones to govern mostly in his stead, because we don’t really hear or read anything impressive when it came down to his actual ruling. The Kingsguards were created because he was almost assassinated and Viseyna literally force him to admit that he would have been dead if it weren’t for her stepping in to protect him, and his sister Rhenys was one of the few to actually make laws in protecting women and children in the realm and marrying several heirs or spares to other kingdoms to unified them under their rule.
“He’s not this guy who drops his nutsack on the battlefield and it makes a crater on the ground before he lands his feet there.” Alright, starting off strong. Got me dying of laughter already.
Would you not be salty in their place? Imagine two powerful kings putting their differences aside to fight this big threat just to be destroyed because the boy brought his cheat code dragon.
@@DM-Oz If taming, controlling, and riding a dragon is just a cheat code that takes no skill or talent, what happened to the dornish prince who tried to hook up his gameshark using dany's dragon?
The arguments you guys make is akin to why I personally think the first Blackfyre Rebellion is more interesting than the Dance of the Dragons when it comes to Targaryen Civil Wars. Tbh I wasn't ever really into dragons as a kid aside from King Ghidorah but ASOIAF definitely made them cool. Despite that, while dragonriders fighting each other is indeed cool, I think the two Targaryen factions fighting each other without dragons is far more interesting and compelling because we see how individual people would cope with being better commanders and not being able to rely on dragon cheat codes to win the battle
A Blackfyre Rebellion series would be awesome. George needs to add more to this and finish his Targaryen history books but I want this more than Aegons conquest.
I like this video, but some think that Aegon married both his sisters to monopolize the dragon riding genes so as to not split the royal family as happens during Viserys’ reign
Yeah that makes sense. I remember hearing this before and it made sense. Keeping the blood like pure seems like an excuse after the fact but keeping the power only to one house sounds more accurate.
Facts and bb was a targ personal I see aegon fine with bb taking the throne he’s still blood plus with the way aerys and rhaegar handled the situation better this then nothing
The more I look into Robert the more I love his character. I think people sleep on him just because he decided to marry into house Lannister. I don't care that he ended up a fat spend-thrift drunk. He deserved to lay back after what he achieved. It just sucks that it ended the way it did. He had the strength, the story, the imperial aesthetics(Baratheon theme goes hard af in the show). It's uncertain if the Lannisters would've even let him get away with not marrying one of them, but one wonders if things would've ended a whole lot differently if he had taken a different wife and appointed a few different individuals to his inner circle.
If I had to apply this to our history timeline, I always saw what Robert did as equivalent to Henry 5th in the Battle of Agincourt, where, against overwhelming odds and being outnumbered, he won by sheer will and being a strategical genius and whilst Henry had his Brothers as his closest allies we could also say the Same thing with Robert who had his Blood Brother Ned and Jon Arryn. For me, I have more of a hatred towards the Targaryens(Even though, I as a massive House Baratheon fan knowing that the house is descendent supposedly from a Targaryen Bastard) and the one I hate the most isn't even the most vile but the so called "Conqueror" himself. People compare him to William the Conqueror, and all I think is WHAT???..... If we are gonna compare him to a historical figure, only one comes to mind, and that's Hernan Cotes.
Actually it is a fair comparison, William took advantage of England in a tumultuous state. Harold Godwinson had to deal with several revolts then a Norwegian invasion led by its King, Harald Hadrada then more revolts and that was when William the Bastard invaded England and then defeated a very weakened English army at Hastings then he exiled much of the traditional Anglo-Saxon Earls where a majority of them joined the Varangian Guard and resettled in Constantinople and replaced them with French speaking Normans.
Fun fact, Constantinople had an English quarter till the 14th century where the Anglo-Saxon exiled nobility who joined the Varangian Guard lived together with their families where Old English survived longer than it did in England where it was replaced by the very French influenced Middle English
He's called "one of the greatest warriors of his time" in Fire and Blood I think, but that's basically all. There's almost no actual fights we have from him.
Well I disagree with most of what you said. Concerning the conquests, they can't be measured by what happens on battlefield... When Robert siezed King's Landing he basically won, while Aegon had to consolidate his new realm. Also when there is precendt for unified Seven Kigdoms, it's easier to fight for it, because there are generally more people who will suport you. I wouldn't consider Robert a brilliant strategist, he was only able to win the easier battles, but lost to Randyl Tarly and had to be saved by Ned, Jon Arryn... And considering Aegons dragons: they provide, I would say potencial to win victories, not a guarantee. Not everyone able to wield dragons dragons like Aegon... And at the and Aegon was able to consolidate and rule the newly esteblished Seven Kingdoms, meanwhile Robert couldn't even rule himself. (Also I hear so many times "What's the name of that Stark up there?"... You obviously donť know your lore that much to make such wild claims.)
Roberts dynasty was just him the Targaryen’s lasted for centuries. Aegon is remembered so well because he was able to set up the kingdom after the conquest. Even with two consecutive bad rulers after him the kingdom was able to hold.
I think they even hype up Aegon being a very skilled swordsman. But from everything we hear it doesn’t sound like it. He was definitely capable but he almost got himself killed by Dornish assassins because once his terrible guards were killed he had nothing. It took his sister to dive in and save him and he still didn’t believe he needed protecting. She cut his face and he wasn’t even quick enough to react. Also the Targaryen’s only won Storms End because of the first Baratheon and Aegon relied on him just as much as his sisters. Aegon was a much better king but he screwed himself succession wise.
The absolute only impressive thing about Aegon's conquest is how he blended his house into westerosi culture. Anybody less smart about it woulda face tons of rebellions and conspiracies to maybe kill the dragons, maybe not while he was alive, but definitely in later generations.
There's a theory about Aegon being gay or shooting blanks. MF had two wives and one job (besides keeping the peace) knocking those bitches up as many times as possible to secure his bloodline. After 30 years Aegon only has two kids?! Meagor knew how important it was to have an heir. He was at war constantly and he still found time to fuck his 6 wives like non stop. Meagor didn't get any of them pregnant, but it certainly wasn't from a lack of trying.
Robert is definitely more of a chad with more impressive feats but aegon still was probably a better king imo Aegon was wiser and more evenhanded he didn't use his dragons to become a tyrant he mostly assimilated to westerosi culture allowing many lords to keep their lands, he didn't reform any laws and allowed the septons and maesters to keep their influence despite the fact he would have probably been smart to get rid of those scheming fuckers and basically only forced them to make an exception for him when it came to sisterfucking. Aegon was more virtuous then robert (probably). obviously aegon was no angel given he was a dragonlord but IIRC he never really went beyond the pale and the darkest thing he did was killing Harren the Black when he burnt harrenhall with him and all his sons in it but tbf they were tyrants and aegon aswell as literally everyone in the riverlands told them to get lost plus aegon warned them twice that he was going to burn it. It ended with the tullys replacing them so all's well that ends well lol Meanwhile Robert's rebellion resulted in the sack of kingslanding including the horrible shit the mountain did which robert let go unpunished all because he was sad he got cucked. Plus it's implied he kinda sorta raped cersei on their wedding night and he beats her and jeoffrey on at least one occasion.
The funniest part about Torrhen is his chad brother that wanted to sneak in and kill the dragons with weirwood arrows. So stupid it might’ve actually worked
Also why meagor trail by 7 is so impressive. Was he fought the 7 best knight of the warriors sons. With random poeple in the crowd. Some of them he knight on the spot.
7:53 peoples misconception is that Robert started the war for lyana 😭. It was Brandon and Richard Stark asking for Lyana back and being burnt alive that started it. On top of the mad king demanded the heads of Ned stark and Robert since they were adoptive brothers in the vale and would rebel potentially. Thus, even prior to doing anything Robert and Ned had no choice but to start a rebellion or die. They couldn’t run to essos since that region has strong connections to targaryens and they have a lot of informants.
I love Robert too but feel you are shitting on Aegon too much, not giving him the credit he deserves not only as a conquerer but as a king, which he was undeniably better at than Robert. Ik you say it was the Lannister’s fault but it was Robert neglecting his duties and role that allowed them to take hold essentially
I mean Robert rebelled the iron throne at its weakest and had 4 kingdoms on his back Aegon essentially fought 7 kingdoms with 5000 men and 3 dragons Aegon beats I think
Rhagar did "steal" Bobby's woman but that's not the whole reason for the rebellion... Jon Aaron was commanded by the throne to send Ned and Robert to kings landing after they killed Ned's brother and Dad and Jon said no effectively that is what started the rebellion.
I mean why was Jon commanded to do so? Because the Starks came to Kings Landing. Why did the Starks come to Kings Landing? Because Lyanna was thought to be kidnapped by Rhaegar.
More like jahaerys created a dynasty that lasted 300 years. If Maegor didn't die probably the targaryens would have ended with him as he'd have killed jahaerys with balerion and unlike jahaerys he can't have kids because he's a dark magic baby, plus all of westeros was against him.
@@mappingshaman5280 That such a weird logic, if we were to start listing every targ that assured the survival of the dynasty during a crisis then we'll be here tomorrow. You're saying Jaeherys built it because he succeeded Maegor and someone else can say Rhaenyra's kids since without them surviving the dance the house is done another will tell Daeron or bloodraven.
its true that robert's rebellion is better written and overall better than aegon's conquest but you forget that the conquest happened not because aegon felt like uniting the 7 kingdom but rather for a greater cause. he foresaw the horror of whitewalkers, he stepped up to unite the kingdom to battle that future. by that, it is unarguably better cause than robert's.
There's 2 main reasons why Aegon is insanely more impressive than Robert. The conquest might seem easy because of dragons but that's the point, this man showed up with nukes, of course he's gonna be treated as the most intimidating thing ever. But the second reason is way more important, Aegon came here with a family of 3 and set up a dynasty that lasted 300 years. His diplomacy skills held up his reign and you can easily see it wasn't just dragons because his son almost fucked it up just a few years after his death. Robert will never be remembered because in his few decades of reign he managed to dishonor and disrespect his wife to the point that she gave him no sons, made a bunch of bastards, bankrupted a realm that had been financially stable for 300 years and pretty much did everything possible to set up a succession crisis that would destroy his legacy. Aegon isn't remembered because he won some battles, he's remembered because his family wrote the next 300 years of history to the point that even his biggest haters can't deny his impact.
Aegon wasn't even that impressive of a king, Maegor and Jaeherys actually broke Faith's militant and created a legal system - its kind of a Henry VIII and Elizabeth dynamic where they both strengthened the monarchy but the latter couldn't have done the nice stuff without the former being a bit of an evil bastard
In regards to Aegon not going into battle and just "sending his dragon"; he rode Balerion the Black Dread into battle. Aegon is on top of a massive beast that bent to his will and would not have accepted him if he was not of proper character. Robert is a descendant of Orys Baratheon who was a bastard brother to Aegon; Robert's station in Westeros is the same as any Targaryen in terms of his legitimacy through right of Blood and Soil; by any First Man/Andal logic anyone else is an invader. Robert also stated the only thing that made his campaign strong was the unity of the cause; once it was over it had become shambles. Aegon had to unify Westeros through conquest which is in fact more volatile than the pre-established system that Robert was looking to conquer. His dragons are a massive boon, but they cannot be in all Seven Kingdoms at any given time so the fact that he was able to maintain order and initiate a dynasty that would last centuries is rather impressive. Robert's dynasty ended with him. Other than that you made solid points about Bobby B. and his big dick energy.
Gotta nitpick something. House Targaryen weren't shitsters in old Valyria, they were one of the 40 Dragonlord Families. Middling in rank, to be sure, but middling means middle... not low. Also, given how potent their prophecy power is, and how often it pops up, there's a good chance they might not have been one of the more martial Houses
It's because we get so much more information about Robert's Rebellion. If we get, just as much information about Aegon's Conquest, it would be different. But that's just me. And I love Robert and Aegon the Conqueror.
All I'm saying is that literally anyone could conquer a kingdom with 3 dragons on their side. It's like invading a country that only has spears and arrows with modern day weaponry
@@OurHiltsHurtcarrier? Give me one F-16, a hundred years worth of fuel and a time machine and I'll take over the entire world in any time period before world war one.
The actual conquest being fought better by Robert? Yes. But straight after Aegon drafted mountains of legislation and reformarions. Far and away the better ruler and statesman. Robert drank and partied rather than ruled, if he hadn't had such good allies as Jon Arryn and Tywin, his neglect would've been much more devastating.
I’m so glad someone brought this up. I pissed me off so much whenever people called Robert the Usurper. Aegon did the same shit, the only difference is he had dragons. Aegon was a power hungry bully, almost as bad as Dany
Aegons dream kinda fell flat in retrospect, cuz like the 7 kingdoms were NOWHERE near being united when the knight came king, and the only Targaryen prince alive at that time did f all during that battle. Arya ass pulled and ended up beating the night king
Respectfully, yeah that was a hot take. Aegon is more impressive in his conquest of (almost) all Westeros because he executed a military operation fully prepared and with substantially less casualties on his side. Its not about flashiness or how epic it is or how harder it was but in how flawlessly he denied his enemies victory and achieved his goals. From a strategic point of view Aegon's conquest is the gold standard (when it comes to ASOIAF). Send in a few dragons, get an empire (kingdom.) What you guys think is a point in favor of Robert is actually a failure in politics and diplomacy and its execution. All your allies should be prepared from the get go to initiate a campaign. If it wasn't for plot armor Robert would have failed.
If they’re making a show about Aegon I (which they are right now) the only way to make it interesting is to 1. Show that its propaganda and Aegon I isn’t even that great. Or 2. Make it actually about his two sons, visenya, his grandchildren and the ensuing conflict of the faith v.s. The Targaryens and Maegor’s usurpation (my preferred option). Aegon’s Conquest is boring. It doesn’t even hold our attention as pure fanservice and fans would realize to be careful what you wish for. The fact that the creators are catering to the desires of fans with stupid opinions (like wanting Henry cavill to play Aegon I) is very disappointing.
Aegon had to face all six kingdoms and conquer them all while Robert only had to face an unpopular Targaryen King and those who were still willing to be his allies. But I totally agree, Aegon was basically playing on easy mode while the enemy made the dumbest decisions possible. The Tyrells and Lannisters meeting the Targaryens on an open field while they could've holed up in Casterly Rock (which one of Aegon's sisters remarked would probably be impervious to dragonfire) is a questionable choice, although maybe it was because the story of Harrenhal had gotten around. You guys have some very contrarian/controversial takes on Game of Thrones. I enjoy it a lot. Do not regret subscribing!
Let’s not act like Robert was a good leader. Completely bankrupted the realm, put awful people in important positions, and was a terrible family man. Sure Cersei is evil, but Robert chose her at the end of the day and antagonized her since their wedding day, calling her his ex’s name and proceeding to have 20 bastards and never bothering to raise his son to not be a violent psychopath.
I'd like to amend my last comment. This video is great! I must've daydreamed through it last time😂 . Bobby B is a stud muffin, especially compared to Aegon. He was known for making former enemies friends as well. I can't remember which Lords Stannis was referring to, buy He said his brother defeated them on the battlefield, befriended them,then they ended up fighting for him. Total Boss move IMO. Love yalls content,keep them coming!
@OurHiltsHurt here's one, How in the hell did Ned figure out Jamie was pounding Cersi? I mean sure, I get he puzzled out she was putting horns on Sweet Bobby B, but to go from adultery to incest? That's quite a large leap lol. Btw, I'm becoming a big fan of yall pretty quickly😆
Bro I agree 100% and the video hasn't really started yet. Aegon had massive dragons and nobody else did. If this was GTA he would be an oppressor griefer who gets clapped on the ground.
I will give Aegon credit for adapting to the culture of westeros by making his family into a noble house in the style of a westerosi noble house with the house symbol and words which they didn't have before which made them seem more similar to the other noble houses. I will also give him credit for pure ambition and opportunism he wanted his house to be great and knew that there was nothing westeros could really do to stop his dragons and so took advantage to cement a place for his house. finally while I agree that Robert is more impressive because being lucky enough to be born into the one family with dragons isn't impressive but I can't really blame Aegon for making use of what he has, can you imagine if he was all "it wouldn't be honourable to use dragons against an enemy that doesn't have any." and then got himself killed in battle at least he knew he wasn't a top tier warrior and didn't let his pride make him do something stupid like some later Targaryens.
Robert had what it takes to be a good king. He showed amnesty to most of his former enemies, which contributed to the 20 years of peace along with Jon Arryn's effort. He excells in war, which is a great deterence to any attempt of rebellion. And he's good at making friends, which makes him a decent diplomat.
Ok, I'm all pro the "Aegon The Conqueror is the most overrated Targaryen ever" party but give the guy some credit, i can name a dozen Targaryens if were in his shoes with those three dragons that would have failed, Dany and Robert in his place almost certainly would've failed. While he was only decent at fighting, and fairly good at strategy, he was an excellent king, with a great ruling mind with a great knowledge in human minds that seems like common sense by today's standards but severely lacking in people in the setting (like Dany who is arguably a terrible ruler and conqueror, and Robert, a terrible king). He had charm and wit about him, and was pretty fair but stern as well, and was not a cruel man. Sure he had three dragons but three dragons can't be everywhere at once and they are not invincible either, and you still need men to hold territory, dragon's cant. Aegon's true greatest feat was winning over people as much as making them afraid of him, he united westeros and inspired unity, he conquered but was also merciful, he understood his enemies individual lands and cultures and used it to his advantage, he wiseley allowed the kings who bent the knee retain much of their power, he respected Westeros and it's culture and embraced it as his secondary culture. He had charisma, decency, basic understanding in human psychology, knowledgeable, and was one of the greatest dragon riders of his line, second only to maybe two. Aegon other than Dorne and an attempt on his life never had much rebellion to deal with like Dany did, and he didn't have the advantage Robert did as being the underdog and victim in a struggle against a tyrant pretty much everyone wanted gone. For as much as i roll my eyes at the Aegon THe Conqueror praise, (and i have always laughed at the idea of henry cavil being casted as Aegon, anyone who thinks that doesn't know anything about the character imo) but i truly do think he was the only man at the time who could've done what he did.
Honestly as a Targaryen fanboy there are way more impressive Targs to be hyping up as Tacticians and Strategists. You can't exactly fault Aegon for using his press this and win button but there's sure as fuck nothing particularly clever about it. Daeron the Young Dragon Conquered Dorne, something Aegon failed to do with Dragons. Though not a King, Daemon Blackfyre I, won every major battle of his rebellion, he also practically won the battle of the Red Grass Fields, the Targaryen army was routed and shattered, he pretty much only lost because Bloodraven killed him and his two sons immediately after. Hell fucking Maegor basically had to save the dynasty because his dumbass brother was a pussy and his Nephew & Niece were going to be murdered by a mob until they got wind Maegor Crowned himself King. Maegor was basically crushing resistance and terrifying Lords, Septs, Zealots Fanatics and other Dissidents so badly that by the time Jaehaerys inherited the throne everyone was just glad to have someone who wasn't Maegor, rebellion was a pipe dream at that point. Nevermind Jaehaerys, who well he didn't fight anything more than skirmishes and minor battles against Pirates, Essosi & Dornishmen was a hyper impressive ruler.
Yall are disrespecting aegon so hard. Yes Bobby b’s rebellion is more impressive as a battle but aegon was infinitely a better ruler and politician. He set the pieces for his future generations to prosper for years to come. Robert sucked monkey balls as a ruler. His neglect is directly responsible for the war of 5 kings. Robert was a great general. Aegon was a great general, politician, king and husband.
The Targaryens didn't even bring the technology for dragon roads, black stone and valyrian steel and much of the knowledge of old valyria that is the reason why I think they were in the lower houses of the freehold and had it been more powerful families like in the top 10 they would have hourded as much as they could before leaving and westeous would have stood no chance against these dragonlords, oh the faith rose up to rebel just straight blows the keep and spreads the more acceptable valyrian religion, the hightowers are conspiring against the Targaryens with the maesters with the 'maester conspiracy' just eradicates them both and appoints a new family to rule the hightower and the citadel falls under 'new management'. In my opinion the best Targaryen king is Visarys ll since he had no dragons and is the reason the targe lasted another 150 year.
I think that's sort of George's point too, is that the targaryens because of their dragons, took a lot less for them to be that much greater. whereas, it's always been that much harder for those of us on the ground
All of the stories of Aegon are just trying to explain why him just having dragons through no real action of his own and using them is somehow a feat of his genius. Its very propagandist, and I assume its supposed to be propagandist It reminds me of that one scene in Avatar: The Last Airbender that I despised as a kid where Azula explains the "Strategic genius" of the great grandpa, where the battle is won because there was a drought and the EARTH kingdom's "defenses burned" his strategy is just use fire which is just the main default weapon the fire nation has, and the fact that the earth nation would have wooden defenses, which for them would be actively harder to construct since they can just bend Earth and rock is actively ridiculous. Still on the fence about that scene because I'm almost completely sure my justification is just my own justification and it's supposed to be a real event.
Wanna hear something, i actualy tought as Aegon being superior to Robert, but after watching this, not only i know i was wrong but also, i'm feeling stupid for it. So, yeah, thank you for that You earned this new sub
A day must come where we join forces, love your humour guys 😂
TH-cam will never be the same after it
Love you fandome clips ❤❤
You might teach this channel how to do better narrations
Dam! The Collab I didn't know I needed 😂
Interesting this comment is on a Bobby B video😍🤣
"We're gonna build a huge castle, and the Riverlands are going to pay for it." -President Hoare, 7 BA
Glad you got the reference lol
Based.
He built a big ass Hoarehouse.
we are gonna make the iron islanders great again i will get vengeance for my ear being shot by a crossbow
😂😂😂
I also hate dorn, but it is telling that the moment Aegon had to face any real challenge he immediately gave up
Yeah exactly. Extremely telling even after he lost the wife he loved too.
@@OurHiltsHurtand he had the nerve to be all pissie about it and start using his dragons to burn dorne for two years if I remember correctly I mean the guy expected people NOT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AND FIGHT BACK
Clown 🤡 average dorn usurper
I dunno, taking Dorne the old-fashioned way, sex, is pretty genius.
@@mohammadhosseini6675To be fair he had to fight only 3 of the 7 Kingdoms he conquered so far. Vale knelt, North knelt, Isles and Riverlands weren’t a fight, he just had to barbecue a family and all the lords helped him. Of the 3 he had to fight, Lannisters and Gardeners were grilled in open field in one afternoon. The only battle he won fair and square was against Argelac Durrandon, and only because it was raining.
Aegon is literally baby me playing Pokemon Emerald, capturing Rayquaza, one shotting everything, and thinking I'm actually good at this thing.
capturing the most powerful thing means you're pretty good
@kaievoke no it's not even like that it's like your great granddad caught it then you were given it and started hyperbeaming shit
@@project_ronin4789If you think that's true you're an idiot, dragon chooses it's master otherwise they can kill or severely burn the tamer, so no grandpa didn't give aegon his dragon, he made him his own. Unlike barratheon who got murked by a boar 🐗
@@kaievoke Master ball
@@project_ronin4789 No, he kinda did caught him... The dragons dont surrender to anyone who has Valyrian blood, they choose who they obbey (we still dont know why). For example: During the Dance of The Dragons, a lot of people died triying to claim the wild/riderless dragons.
So claiming the most powerful there was, and making him obbey him like Balerion did, is a pretty big feat... Specially when considering out of his 4 known riders, Balerion only ever obeyed him and Maegor, not quite Aerea nor Viserys.
Roberts Rebellion was one of the Greatest 'me and the boys' moments I've heard of. There was no intricate plan or scheme, no prophecy, just this great family of destiny with 'the chosen one' (the archetype not TPTWP) leading their armies getting wrecked by a bunch of pissed off lads with no plan beyond 'kick Targaryen ass and shag girls, and Roberts out of girls'
Finally the image of Rhaegar fighting like this super elegant warrior of myth and legend only to get absolutely destroyed in public by a mad lad wielding a giant hammer is so funny to me.
Lads can’t stop winning on the battlefield. Take the L pretty boys.
@@OurHiltsHurt "L + ratio + get chest caved in lmao ur songs suck play a tavern jig"
@@vibechecker3168 ...+ got my nut + new crown who dis? + #RIPTargTrash "
@@OurHiltsHurt Smokin on that diabolical blood of the dragon Rhaegar pack, #packwatch rest in piss bozo
I don’t care if I go blind. I don’t need to see the Iron Throne anyways.
You left something out. Aegon showed up prepared for conquest against a bunch of unsuspecting people. Robert had to defeat an enemy that was already engaged in war and was militarily strong.
True. Robert had to fight an established super power in the realm while Aegon just melted everyone that stood in his way.
@@OurHiltsHurt To be fair it was a crumbling superpower at that point and Robert had the north behind him which is half the continent, at least in size.
@@monkeyboy275bobo8 and people
It wasn't unsuspecting aegon sent every house a letter that there will be a only one king in westeros form now on
By the time the war really kicked off, everyone knew that Akon was trying to conquer Westro And Robert had a lot more help than Aegon
The god's of Planetos sh*t themselves at the thought of Bobby B getting a dragon.
lol damn. RIP old gods and new if The Deamon of the Trident took flight.
O My God. That's a vision i'd die to see. Robert on a dragon smashing his warhammer: splendid!
@@cristinademartini6653 Robert conquers Essos without a doubt.
@@em34ev3r i'd say all planetos xD!
If Bobby B had a dragon, he wouldn’t actually ride it himself. You can’t smash people with a hammer from dragonback, and what’s the point of fighting when you can’t cave in someone’s head with a comically oversized warhammer.
AND STANNIS WAS HIS ONE TRUE HEIR! WE PUT UP A GIANT ICE WALL TO KEEP OUT MAGICAL TWINKS. DEATH TO DRAGONS!
Based and Baratheon pilled
Yeah I never understood Henry Cavil being Aegon. I can see Aegon being muscular but not Henry Cavil buff. Now prime Robert would be perfectly played by Henry Cavil.
Yeah Henry would be a better Maegor just based on his size
@@OurHiltsHurt gotta be honest: that would be near perfect cast...... also tbh i dont understand all that hype around Henry Cavill
Henry Cavill is too old now to be Robert during the rebellion unfortunately. He was only supposed to be around 20/21 im sure. He definitely has the Baratheon look tho.
@@hdmb9180 I know, he still looks pretty young though and they could do some de-aging. But it might be better to find someone younger. I saw clips of him in this medieval movie and he fits it perfectly.
Henry Cavill should be Dunc the Lunk
I used to think the Targaryens were overrated but when you think about it, it’s more fair to say they’re properly rated. They were a middle of the pack house in Valyria, and Aegon only conquered six of the seven kingdoms with the greatest weapons in the world. It can be argued the top dogs back in old Valyria would’ve conquered all seven even if dorne used their guerrilla tactics. Off that alone house Targaryen were just the big fish in the now small pond of Westeros. But to be fair to them even after losing all their dragons in the dance, they were able to hold the realm together and reign for another 150 or so years without their main weapon so I think that evens it out a bit.
True. Dorne would have gotten bent so quickly if Old Valyria came over and not just the Targs.
That would be a great fanfic to read imagine the yellow toad saying you can burn us but won’t break us then rhey say cool 300 dragons all over drone
@@OurHiltsHurtWho wouldn't?
@@OurHiltsHurtthey wouldn´t have gotten bent. The sand would have been molten to glass, everything organic turned to ash. They would have made an example out of them.
@@maxomat4319 and a new song would be made worse done the rains probably the land that became glass
It’s so awesome to hear other people that feel the same way. Robert was a fucking boss and he had every right to do what he did. I hated in the show they say “Robert’s rebellion was built on a lie”. Uhhh no. I think Ned’s family would disagree vehemently.
Yeah even if Lyanna didn’t love him, Rhaegar and the Mad King acted in such a way that basically was begging for war.
Yeah it's hard to say it was based on a lie when the king ordered Robert and Ned to be killed because of what Ned's older brother did. Robert and Ned really had no choice but to go to war or else they would have been burned alive.
8:45 Its literally the meme with the kid being praised in that pool while the other is drowning, and then theres a rotting skeleton at the bottom. Except its the Targs, Valeryons and Celtigar respectively.
The dumbest line in Game of Thrones is "Robert's rebellion was built on a lie".
True. Roberts Rebellion also has many reasons why it started.
@@OurHiltsHurt Everyone forgets that Aerys called of Robert's and Ned's to be handed over so he could probably burn them like he did Ned's daddy, they just say "Robert started a war for Lyanna"
well it technically was. the lie was Lyanna being kidnapped
@@tanimal3964 well thats after the fact. but the rebellion WAS built on the lie that Lyanna was kidnapped. which led to Rickards and Brandons deaths at the hands of the mad king.
@@Themrine2013
Its not after the fact. The Rebellion started not because of lyanna nor because of Rickard and Brandon. It started when Aerys called for the heads of Robert and Ned. Lord Arryn declined and called for his banners and sent Robert and Ned to there lands to call for theirs.
Lord Arryn call for his banners started the rebellion, and was a direct result of Aerys calling for their heads.
Hell it technically was still kidnapping. As you no matter who you are cannot take a 15 year old daughter of a major lord without asking.
When casting Robert, they said "lets see if we can get the fat guy from The Full Monty. He'd be perfect"
You have this leaked audio of this conversation? Or were you there?
@@OurHiltsHurt I have it here, come closer
@zaxx we are basically nose to nose right now. Idk how much closer we can get.
@@OurHiltsHurt lower
Yo… you need to talk to medical professional. That smell should not be on a living person.
Pov: your older brother and his friend get into your favorite fantasy series 😂
We hope that’s a good thing lol
@OurHiltsHurt of course it's funny af
@@idiotnostalgia5167 I hope you steered them well into being Baratheon chads instead of anyone else.
Start to finish Roberts Rebellion is like something from a mythical story in Westeros itself
That's why the fandom is mad that twink lancel was the reason he died
I keep saying this; a dragon doesn't matter. Robert won a continental war against an established kingdom. Sounds like a true Conqueror to me.
Thank the gods for Bessy and Robert
We thank the seven every morning
And their teats
I am a simple man, I see a pro Baratheon video I give a like, and you are totally right, Boby B reconquered the throne without dragons and leading his armies
Bobby The Based Baratheon > Aegon the Easy Mode Targaryen
Robert was an absolute unit.
Women want him, men want to be him.
I'm glad that at least one channel factors in the most important, and often overlooked, aspects of a monarch: being dripped out like a god.
Which king has the best drip?
@OurHiltsHurt I'm not sure. I never finished reading Fire and Blood, so I feel like I don't have an educated opinion on the subject
Ikr Robert had like 3 kingdoms and conquered 7 with his own army. Harren the Black is more impressive than Aegon but people simp for him because he married his sisters and had dragons. Like Harren actually built a monument Aegon didn’t build anything but a raggedy fort and a city without plumbing filled with crime.
True. Kingslanding is the most overrated city in all of Westeros.
Harren the black didn’t build a monument, his slaves built it. Pretty sure Aegon could have built something to rival Harrenhal if he was also into slave labour. Especially since dragon fire is said to have stone fusing properties. If Harren had dragons he wouldn’t unite the realm, he’d turn them into a continent of slaves.
As for Robert, I’ll give him all the credit he’s due. But let’s remember that he only “conquered” the 7 kingdoms as the majority of them were already united for the last 300 years. It’s all they knew. Relying on his Targaryen blood (that came from Aegon) is how most people accepted him.
Harren built an unsustainable castle and was too stupid to realize heat travels through stone
@@OurHiltsHurtnobody over estimates kingslanding we all know what it is. Oldtown and lannisport are clearly far greater. How gulltown whiteharbor and sunpear rank we just dont know enough about them.
Bro almost got a whole historical family line squad wiped, I got my silvers on Robert.
Yeah and without Dragons
Robert(gigachad) > Aegon(virgin) this is the most pure true
Two chicks man.
@@Fenris30His sisters man...
Yes! As much as Mark Addy killed the role, I think they made Robert a worse king and a worse person in a lot of ways. Like In the breastplate stretcher scene, in the show Robert just says that he thought being kin meant he could do whatever he wanted. In the books he apologizes to Ned about what happened to Sanaa’s direwolf, said that he’s staying the king to keep Cersei and Joffrey from ruling instead and talks about how he didn’t want to marry her, but Lord Arryn (who I like so this isn’t shade against him) decided she’d be the queen to secure the Lannister’s (whic doesn’t make a ton of sense imo, but that’s a different issue). I think Robert ranks somewhere around Aerys I as a king. He was just middling.
Yeah as a King Robert isn’t good. But when it comes to conquering and being a leader in battle Robert > Aegon. What do you think?
@@OurHiltsHurt Oh. Just conquering? I didn’t watch the video yet. He was definitely a lot better there. Aegon had dragons and he still couldn’t conquer Dorne, but Barristan was confident that Robert would have crushed the Dornish if he knew about their Targaryen restoration plot.
The apology scene actually makes robbert look worse since it's him admitting he let his best friends daughter needlessly suffer.
@@fightingmedialounge519 Nah.
@@CatotheE yeah it really does. Either making him look so weak that he couldn't keep his wife and child from trying to enact any form of pointless revenge, or that he could have stopped it but didn't care about how letting cersie order lady's death would affect sansa and ned. His reasoning for abandoning the throne makes him like a mediocre king considering the whole notion behind heirs.
In fantasy we all like to be Aegon and the realistically, as time passes we have prefer Robert.🤔🤔🤔
Bobby b is giga Chad
Twink death even affects our fantasies
I actually liked bobby b from the very beginning.
Finally. Yes. Robert is so much better than normie fans give him credit.
You guys forget that the mad king called for Rob's and Ned's head. So they we're only fighting to to stay alive.
That’s true. We might have forgotten to mention that so it made Neds and Roberts choice pretty easy.
Aegon wasn’t even that great of a ruler considering we hear that he govern mostly in Dragonstone compared to the future city of Kingslanding, and he let his Sisters and his Bastard Brother to be the ones to govern mostly in his stead, because we don’t really hear or read anything impressive when it came down to his actual ruling. The Kingsguards were created because he was almost assassinated and Viseyna literally force him to admit that he would have been dead if it weren’t for her stepping in to protect him, and his sister Rhenys was one of the few to actually make laws in protecting women and children in the realm and marrying several heirs or spares to other kingdoms to unified them under their rule.
Yeah idk if he’s in my top 3 or 5 best kings in Westeros
Well he's called Aegon the conquerer not Aegon the really good ruler
@OurHiltsHurt Aegon built the Kingdom so that Jaeherys could sit the Throne and rule it 🎉
“He’s not this guy who drops his nutsack on the battlefield and it makes a crater on the ground before he lands his feet there.”
Alright, starting off strong. Got me dying of laughter already.
Just trying to paint the most accurate picture we can for our boys
You guys sound like lords who begrudgingly swore fealty to Aegon, like, "the Field of Fire! That was absolute bullshit, right?"
I mean are we wrong? Lol
Would you not be salty in their place? Imagine two powerful kings putting their differences aside to fight this big threat just to be destroyed because the boy brought his cheat code dragon.
@@DM-Oz
If taming, controlling, and riding a dragon is just a cheat code that takes no skill or talent, what happened to the dornish prince who tried to hook up his gameshark using dany's dragon?
@@falseprophet1024Quentyn lives, and he will ride Viserion back to Dorne.
@@falseprophet1024a gigantic arrow proof fire breathing flying lizard vs swords and spears is 100% a cheat code.
Aegon having Dragons which was basically cheat code and still not being able to conquer Dorne.....
Embarrassing. If Dorne won’t bend, then give them the classic Harrenhal treatment
@@OurHiltsHurthe didnt do It because it was rumored that his sister was still alive and if he destroyed Dorne they would have tortured her
The arguments you guys make is akin to why I personally think the first Blackfyre Rebellion is more interesting than the Dance of the Dragons when it comes to Targaryen Civil Wars. Tbh I wasn't ever really into dragons as a kid aside from King Ghidorah but ASOIAF definitely made them cool.
Despite that, while dragonriders fighting each other is indeed cool, I think the two Targaryen factions fighting each other without dragons is far more interesting and compelling because we see how individual people would cope with being better commanders and not being able to rely on dragon cheat codes to win the battle
A Blackfyre Rebellion series would be awesome. George needs to add more to this and finish his Targaryen history books but I want this more than Aegons conquest.
I like this video, but some think that Aegon married both his sisters to monopolize the dragon riding genes so as to not split the royal family as happens during Viserys’ reign
Yeah that makes sense. I remember hearing this before and it made sense. Keeping the blood like pure seems like an excuse after the fact but keeping the power only to one house sounds more accurate.
Facts and bb was a targ personal I see aegon fine with bb taking the throne he’s still blood plus with the way aerys and rhaegar handled the situation better this then nothing
Supposedly, the whole incest thing is like a Valyrian tradition. That they brought over from the Freehold.
The more I look into Robert the more I love his character. I think people sleep on him just because he decided to marry into house Lannister. I don't care that he ended up a fat spend-thrift drunk. He deserved to lay back after what he achieved. It just sucks that it ended the way it did. He had the strength, the story, the imperial aesthetics(Baratheon theme goes hard af in the show). It's uncertain if the Lannisters would've even let him get away with not marrying one of them, but one wonders if things would've ended a whole lot differently if he had taken a different wife and appointed a few different individuals to his inner circle.
Bobby B was Azor Ahai
He still is
Based
Bro i love how u guys talk about these stories. So relatable
lol hey thanks, glad you found the channel and enjoy it
If I had to apply this to our history timeline, I always saw what Robert did as equivalent to Henry 5th in the Battle of Agincourt, where, against overwhelming odds and being outnumbered, he won by sheer will and being a strategical genius and whilst Henry had his Brothers as his closest allies we could also say the Same thing with Robert who had his Blood Brother Ned and Jon Arryn.
For me, I have more of a hatred towards the Targaryens(Even though, I as a massive House Baratheon fan knowing that the house is descendent supposedly from a Targaryen Bastard) and the one I hate the most isn't even the most vile but the so called "Conqueror" himself. People compare him to William the Conqueror, and all I think is WHAT???..... If we are gonna compare him to a historical figure, only one comes to mind, and that's Hernan Cotes.
Actually it is a fair comparison, William took advantage of England in a tumultuous state. Harold Godwinson had to deal with several revolts then a Norwegian invasion led by its King, Harald Hadrada then more revolts and that was when William the Bastard invaded England and then defeated a very weakened English army at Hastings then he exiled much of the traditional Anglo-Saxon Earls where a majority of them joined the Varangian Guard and resettled in Constantinople and replaced them with French speaking Normans.
Fun fact, Constantinople had an English quarter till the 14th century where the Anglo-Saxon exiled nobility who joined the Varangian Guard lived together with their families where Old English survived longer than it did in England where it was replaced by the very French influenced Middle English
Robert with three dragons would have taken over the earth and expand his empire into other planets.
Based and Baratheon pilled
The REAL gigachad was Argilac the Arrogant. Dude was an old ass man and still fought on the frontlines and killed 12 soldiers by himself.
I love Robert. He gets too much hate by the fandom imo. Personally i think his a tragic character.
Robert has some simp like behavior with Lyanna but other than that he’s a great character. Not a good king but many are not.
"Thank the gods Ned has a PUssY"
Ok I'm subscribed😂
lol thank you
Did Aegon even use Blackfyre? Has been sometime since i read the book but dont remember him fighting anyone
Yeah I don’t think he fights anyone in single combat but he has that awesome sword next to him collecting dust.
I think he did fight dornish assassins one time. Might have just been visenya saving him though
He's called "one of the greatest warriors of his time" in Fire and Blood I think, but that's basically all. There's almost no actual fights we have from him.
No nickname comes close to “Demon of the Trident”
Truth
Well I disagree with most of what you said.
Concerning the conquests, they can't be measured by what happens on battlefield... When Robert siezed King's Landing he basically won, while Aegon had to consolidate his new realm. Also when there is precendt for unified Seven Kigdoms, it's easier to fight for it, because there are generally more people who will suport you. I wouldn't consider Robert a brilliant strategist, he was only able to win the easier battles, but lost to Randyl Tarly and had to be saved by Ned, Jon Arryn... And considering Aegons dragons: they provide, I would say potencial to win victories, not a guarantee. Not everyone able to wield dragons dragons like Aegon...
And at the and Aegon was able to consolidate and rule the newly esteblished Seven Kingdoms, meanwhile Robert couldn't even rule himself. (Also I hear so many times "What's the name of that Stark up there?"... You obviously donť know your lore that much to make such wild claims.)
Your hat fits you well 👌👍
@@OurHiltsHurt In ASoIaF fools have prophetic powers.
@@mrmat3818 Seems like you would have better luck in that world then ours
Roberts dynasty was just him the Targaryen’s lasted for centuries. Aegon is remembered so well because he was able to set up the kingdom after the conquest. Even with two consecutive bad rulers after him the kingdom was able to hold.
Bobby B would absolutely fuck Aegon up in open war and single combat
Fact check true
I think they even hype up Aegon being a very skilled swordsman. But from everything we hear it doesn’t sound like it. He was definitely capable but he almost got himself killed by Dornish assassins because once his terrible guards were killed he had nothing. It took his sister to dive in and save him and he still didn’t believe he needed protecting. She cut his face and he wasn’t even quick enough to react.
Also the Targaryen’s only won Storms End because of the first Baratheon and Aegon relied on him just as much as his sisters.
Aegon was a much better king but he screwed himself succession wise.
The absolute only impressive thing about Aegon's conquest is how he blended his house into westerosi culture. Anybody less smart about it woulda face tons of rebellions and conspiracies to maybe kill the dragons, maybe not while he was alive, but definitely in later generations.
Aegon had a dragon dream. That's why he conquered the 7 kingdoms
Let us know what you think and we will tell you why you are wrong
"God's he was strong then"
I called Aegon a cuck on reddit. Didn't go too well. People are dumb simps.
There's a theory about Aegon being gay or shooting blanks. MF had two wives and one job (besides keeping the peace) knocking those bitches up as many times as possible to secure his bloodline. After 30 years Aegon only has two kids?! Meagor knew how important it was to have an heir. He was at war constantly and he still found time to fuck his 6 wives like non stop. Meagor didn't get any of them pregnant, but it certainly wasn't from a lack of trying.
Robert is definitely more of a chad with more impressive feats but aegon still was probably a better king imo
Aegon was wiser and more evenhanded he didn't use his dragons to become a tyrant he mostly assimilated to westerosi culture allowing many lords to keep their lands, he didn't reform any laws and allowed the septons and maesters to keep their influence despite the fact he would have probably been smart to get rid of those scheming fuckers and basically only forced them to make an exception for him when it came to sisterfucking.
Aegon was more virtuous then robert (probably). obviously aegon was no angel given he was a dragonlord but IIRC he never really went beyond the pale and the darkest thing he did was killing Harren the Black when he burnt harrenhall with him and all his sons in it but tbf they were tyrants and aegon aswell as literally everyone in the riverlands told them to get lost plus aegon warned them twice that he was going to burn it. It ended with the tullys replacing them so all's well that ends well lol
Meanwhile Robert's rebellion resulted in the sack of kingslanding including the horrible shit the mountain did which robert let go unpunished all because he was sad he got cucked. Plus it's implied he kinda sorta raped cersei on their wedding night and he beats her and jeoffrey on at least one occasion.
You are wronf
Robert took 9 Kingdoms without dragons, Aegon couldn't took Dorme.
The funniest part about Torrhen is his chad brother that wanted to sneak in and kill the dragons with weirwood arrows. So stupid it might’ve actually worked
Also why meagor trail by 7 is so impressive. Was he fought the 7 best knight of the warriors sons. With random poeple in the crowd. Some of them he knight on the spot.
7:53 peoples misconception is that Robert started the war for lyana 😭. It was Brandon and Richard Stark asking for Lyana back and being burnt alive that started it. On top of the mad king demanded the heads of Ned stark and Robert since they were adoptive brothers in the vale and would rebel potentially. Thus, even prior to doing anything Robert and Ned had no choice but to start a rebellion or die. They couldn’t run to essos since that region has strong connections to targaryens and they have a lot of informants.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who DOESN’T simp for Aegon. 🦌🖤💛
Exceptional clickbait. I had to. Im glad i did. 😂
We are glad you did too lol
I love Robert too but feel you are shitting on Aegon too much, not giving him the credit he deserves not only as a conquerer but as a king, which he was undeniably better at than Robert. Ik you say it was the Lannister’s fault but it was Robert neglecting his duties and role that allowed them to take hold essentially
Yeah we arnt really focused on ruling kings. Because Aegon is better. Just talking about the Conquest vs the Rebellion.
Was he that much better than Robert whoever? Just like with Robert, the realmed descended into chaos after Aegon's death
I mean Robert rebelled the iron throne at its weakest and had 4 kingdoms on his back Aegon essentially fought 7 kingdoms with 5000 men and 3 dragons
Aegon beats I think
Rhagar did "steal" Bobby's woman but that's not the whole reason for the rebellion... Jon Aaron was commanded by the throne to send Ned and Robert to kings landing after they killed Ned's brother and Dad and Jon said no effectively that is what started the rebellion.
I mean why was Jon commanded to do so? Because the Starks came to Kings Landing. Why did the Starks come to Kings Landing? Because Lyanna was thought to be kidnapped by Rhaegar.
Who tf is "aaron"
@goodstuff6006
That's what your mom's nickname for my junk, she loves the Aaron
@goodstuff6006 🙄 stfu dude, you know wtf I meant to say. Go away if you don't have anything interesting to say.
I love Bobby B, but you cannot tell me he wouldn’t use a dragon if he had access to one
Targaryen simps absolutely seething rn
They always do lol
Like Baratheon ones
@@sliferskydragon9798we don't need to seethe since the only l we took is against lannister inbreds, which shall be avenged!
Aegon created a dynasty that lasted almost 300 years, Robert's crumbled after his death.
Crumbled like Rhaegars breastplate.
More like jahaerys created a dynasty that lasted 300 years. If Maegor didn't die probably the targaryens would have ended with him as he'd have killed jahaerys with balerion and unlike jahaerys he can't have kids because he's a dark magic baby, plus all of westeros was against him.
@@mappingshaman5280 That such a weird logic, if we were to start listing every targ that assured the survival of the dynasty during a crisis then we'll be here tomorrow. You're saying Jaeherys built it because he succeeded Maegor and someone else can say Rhaenyra's kids since without them surviving the dance the house is done another will tell Daeron or bloodraven.
its true that robert's rebellion is better written and overall better than aegon's conquest but you forget that the conquest happened not because aegon felt like uniting the 7 kingdom but rather for a greater cause. he foresaw the horror of whitewalkers, he stepped up to unite the kingdom to battle that future. by that, it is unarguably better cause than robert's.
That's a trashy leap of logic BS explanation for a F'ing genocide and invasion.
There's 2 main reasons why Aegon is insanely more impressive than Robert. The conquest might seem easy because of dragons but that's the point, this man showed up with nukes, of course he's gonna be treated as the most intimidating thing ever. But the second reason is way more important, Aegon came here with a family of 3 and set up a dynasty that lasted 300 years. His diplomacy skills held up his reign and you can easily see it wasn't just dragons because his son almost fucked it up just a few years after his death. Robert will never be remembered because in his few decades of reign he managed to dishonor and disrespect his wife to the point that she gave him no sons, made a bunch of bastards, bankrupted a realm that had been financially stable for 300 years and pretty much did everything possible to set up a succession crisis that would destroy his legacy. Aegon isn't remembered because he won some battles, he's remembered because his family wrote the next 300 years of history to the point that even his biggest haters can't deny his impact.
Aegon wasn't even that impressive of a king, Maegor and Jaeherys actually broke Faith's militant and created a legal system - its kind of a Henry VIII and Elizabeth dynamic where they both strengthened the monarchy but the latter couldn't have done the nice stuff without the former being a bit of an evil bastard
True. The classic Good King Bad King routine
Congratulations, you just destroyed the biggest, most useful castle in the country you genius
In regards to Aegon not going into battle and just "sending his dragon"; he rode Balerion the Black Dread into battle. Aegon is on top of a massive beast that bent to his will and would not have accepted him if he was not of proper character.
Robert is a descendant of Orys Baratheon who was a bastard brother to Aegon; Robert's station in Westeros is the same as any Targaryen in terms of his legitimacy through right of Blood and Soil; by any First Man/Andal logic anyone else is an invader.
Robert also stated the only thing that made his campaign strong was the unity of the cause; once it was over it had become shambles.
Aegon had to unify Westeros through conquest which is in fact more volatile than the pre-established system that Robert was looking to conquer. His dragons are a massive boon, but they cannot be in all Seven Kingdoms at any given time so the fact that he was able to maintain order and initiate a dynasty that would last centuries is rather impressive. Robert's dynasty ended with him.
Other than that you made solid points about Bobby B. and his big dick energy.
Gotta nitpick something. House Targaryen weren't shitsters in old Valyria, they were one of the 40 Dragonlord Families. Middling in rank, to be sure, but middling means middle... not low. Also, given how potent their prophecy power is, and how often it pops up, there's a good chance they might not have been one of the more martial Houses
It's because we get so much more information about Robert's Rebellion. If we get, just as much information about Aegon's Conquest, it would be different. But that's just me. And I love Robert and Aegon the Conqueror.
Yeah that’s true. We get a lot of information about Aegons conquest but none of the first person accounts or POVs like we get with Roberts.
All I'm saying is that literally anyone could conquer a kingdom with 3 dragons on their side. It's like invading a country that only has spears and arrows with modern day weaponry
Agreed. One aircraft carrier would rule the world for most of its existence
@@OurHiltsHurtcarrier? Give me one F-16, a hundred years worth of fuel and a time machine and I'll take over the entire world in any time period before world war one.
The actual conquest being fought better by Robert? Yes.
But straight after Aegon drafted mountains of legislation and reformarions. Far and away the better ruler and statesman. Robert drank and partied rather than ruled, if he hadn't had such good allies as Jon Arryn and Tywin, his neglect would've been much more devastating.
exactly
@@tlungu962 not to mention the moment the people supporting him started to die and abandon ship things crumbled
I’m so glad someone brought this up. I pissed me off so much whenever people called Robert the Usurper. Aegon did the same shit, the only difference is he had dragons. Aegon was a power hungry bully, almost as bad as Dany
Yup. It’s all based on how you view the figure in history on how we label them and characterize their actions.
To be fair to Aegon it would be quite difficult to not use your dragons when they are your only advantage
Aegons dream kinda fell flat in retrospect, cuz like the 7 kingdoms were NOWHERE near being united when the knight came king, and the only Targaryen prince alive at that time did f all during that battle. Arya ass pulled and ended up beating the night king
Respectfully, yeah that was a hot take. Aegon is more impressive in his conquest of (almost) all Westeros because he executed a military operation fully prepared and with substantially less casualties on his side. Its not about flashiness or how epic it is or how harder it was but in how flawlessly he denied his enemies victory and achieved his goals. From a strategic point of view Aegon's conquest is the gold standard (when it comes to ASOIAF). Send in a few dragons, get an empire (kingdom.)
What you guys think is a point in favor of Robert is actually a failure in politics and diplomacy and its execution. All your allies should be prepared from the get go to initiate a campaign. If it wasn't for plot armor Robert would have failed.
Nah, big hammer goes bonk, your opinion is nullified.
@@BoiledOdenn Welp f*ck I got nothing else...
im imagining this conversation taking place in a westerosi bar, between two drunk maesters
Never thought I would listen to the Conquerer get roasted for over 20 min LMAO bravo fellas 👏🏽
If they’re making a show about Aegon I (which they are right now) the only way to make it interesting is to 1. Show that its propaganda and Aegon I isn’t even that great. Or 2. Make it actually about his two sons, visenya, his grandchildren and the ensuing conflict of the faith v.s. The Targaryens and Maegor’s usurpation (my preferred option).
Aegon’s Conquest is boring. It doesn’t even hold our attention as pure fanservice and fans would realize to be careful what you wish for. The fact that the creators are catering to the desires of fans with stupid opinions (like wanting Henry cavill to play Aegon I) is very disappointing.
so I appreciate the gaming terminology in this video. Robert would never use such dirty tactics to win as a "game shark" that dude is a true gamer.
No save, no game shark, guy was a real gamer
@@OurHiltsHurt Robert would totally do a no damage, no upgrade, single segment speedrun of a game
I think we can integrate "victors of circumstance" into the lexicon.
Did aegon not kill anyone during one on one combat during this?
At least Aegon didn't mistreat his wives\ wife
Aegon had to face all six kingdoms and conquer them all while Robert only had to face an unpopular Targaryen King and those who were still willing to be his allies. But I totally agree, Aegon was basically playing on easy mode while the enemy made the dumbest decisions possible. The Tyrells and Lannisters meeting the Targaryens on an open field while they could've holed up in Casterly Rock (which one of Aegon's sisters remarked would probably be impervious to dragonfire) is a questionable choice, although maybe it was because the story of Harrenhal had gotten around.
You guys have some very contrarian/controversial takes on Game of Thrones. I enjoy it a lot. Do not regret subscribing!
He didn't even face them he just rode he's nuke of a dragon around burning ppl😂😂😂
Let’s not act like Robert was a good leader. Completely bankrupted the realm, put awful people in important positions, and was a terrible family man.
Sure Cersei is evil, but Robert chose her at the end of the day and antagonized her since their wedding day, calling her his ex’s name and proceeding to have 20 bastards and never bothering to raise his son to not be a violent psychopath.
Yeah but we were talking about the Rebellion vs the Conquest
I'd like to amend my last comment. This video is great! I must've daydreamed through it last time😂 . Bobby B is a stud muffin, especially compared to Aegon. He was known for making former enemies friends as well. I can't remember which Lords Stannis was referring to, buy He said his brother defeated them on the battlefield, befriended them,then they ended up fighting for him. Total Boss move IMO. Love yalls content,keep them coming!
Thanks lol. I’m glad you enjoyed it. And let us know if you have any video ideas or topics you want us to cover.
@OurHiltsHurt here's one, How in the hell did Ned figure out Jamie was pounding Cersi? I mean sure, I get he puzzled out she was putting horns on Sweet Bobby B, but to go from adultery to incest? That's quite a large leap lol. Btw, I'm becoming a big fan of yall pretty quickly😆
Bro I agree 100% and the video hasn't really started yet. Aegon had massive dragons and nobody else did. If this was GTA he would be an oppressor griefer who gets clapped on the ground.
I will give Aegon credit for adapting to the culture of westeros by making his family into a noble house in the style of a westerosi noble house with the house symbol and words which they didn't have before which made them seem more similar to the other noble houses.
I will also give him credit for pure ambition and opportunism he wanted his house to be great and knew that there was nothing westeros could really do to stop his dragons and so took advantage to cement a place for his house.
finally while I agree that Robert is more impressive because being lucky enough to be born into the one family with dragons isn't impressive but I can't really blame Aegon for making use of what he has, can you imagine if he was all "it wouldn't be honourable to use dragons against an enemy that doesn't have any." and then got himself killed in battle at least he knew he wasn't a top tier warrior and didn't let his pride make him do something stupid like some later Targaryens.
Robert had what it takes to be a good king. He showed amnesty to most of his former enemies, which contributed to the 20 years of peace along with Jon Arryn's effort. He excells in war, which is a great deterence to any attempt of rebellion. And he's good at making friends, which makes him a decent diplomat.
The Lyanna Stark slander at 10:12 I used to pray for times like this 😭
Ok, I'm all pro the "Aegon The Conqueror is the most overrated Targaryen ever" party but give the guy some credit, i can name a dozen Targaryens if were in his shoes with those three dragons that would have failed, Dany and Robert in his place almost certainly would've failed. While he was only decent at fighting, and fairly good at strategy, he was an excellent king, with a great ruling mind with a great knowledge in human minds that seems like common sense by today's standards but severely lacking in people in the setting (like Dany who is arguably a terrible ruler and conqueror, and Robert, a terrible king). He had charm and wit about him, and was pretty fair but stern as well, and was not a cruel man. Sure he had three dragons but three dragons can't be everywhere at once and they are not invincible either, and you still need men to hold territory, dragon's cant. Aegon's true greatest feat was winning over people as much as making them afraid of him, he united westeros and inspired unity, he conquered but was also merciful, he understood his enemies individual lands and cultures and used it to his advantage, he wiseley allowed the kings who bent the knee retain much of their power, he respected Westeros and it's culture and embraced it as his secondary culture. He had charisma, decency, basic understanding in human psychology, knowledgeable, and was one of the greatest dragon riders of his line, second only to maybe two. Aegon other than Dorne and an attempt on his life never had much rebellion to deal with like Dany did, and he didn't have the advantage Robert did as being the underdog and victim in a struggle against a tyrant pretty much everyone wanted gone. For as much as i roll my eyes at the Aegon THe Conqueror praise, (and i have always laughed at the idea of henry cavil being casted as Aegon, anyone who thinks that doesn't know anything about the character imo) but i truly do think he was the only man at the time who could've done what he did.
Chad Robert and his hammer will always win
HBO should make a show about Robert Baratheon about the war I would watch that
Yeah but I would rather just have an animation version of it so it’s accurate to the book
Honestly as a Targaryen fanboy there are way more impressive Targs to be hyping up as Tacticians and Strategists. You can't exactly fault Aegon for using his press this and win button but there's sure as fuck nothing particularly clever about it. Daeron the Young Dragon Conquered Dorne, something Aegon failed to do with Dragons. Though not a King, Daemon Blackfyre I, won every major battle of his rebellion, he also practically won the battle of the Red Grass Fields, the Targaryen army was routed and shattered, he pretty much only lost because Bloodraven killed him and his two sons immediately after. Hell fucking Maegor basically had to save the dynasty because his dumbass brother was a pussy and his Nephew & Niece were going to be murdered by a mob until they got wind Maegor Crowned himself King.
Maegor was basically crushing resistance and terrifying Lords, Septs, Zealots Fanatics and other Dissidents so badly that by the time Jaehaerys inherited the throne everyone was just glad to have someone who wasn't Maegor, rebellion was a pipe dream at that point. Nevermind Jaehaerys, who well he didn't fight anything more than skirmishes and minor battles against Pirates, Essosi & Dornishmen was a hyper impressive ruler.
This video is so based. You guy's got yourselves a new subscriber.
Glad you found the channel and enjoy our content.
Yall are disrespecting aegon so hard. Yes Bobby b’s rebellion is more impressive as a battle but aegon was infinitely a better ruler and politician. He set the pieces for his future generations to prosper for years to come.
Robert sucked monkey balls as a ruler. His neglect is directly responsible for the war of 5 kings.
Robert was a great general.
Aegon was a great general, politician, king and husband.
The Targaryens didn't even bring the technology for dragon roads, black stone and valyrian steel and much of the knowledge of old valyria that is the reason why I think they were in the lower houses of the freehold and had it been more powerful families like in the top 10 they would have hourded as much as they could before leaving and westeous would have stood no chance against these dragonlords, oh the faith rose up to rebel just straight blows the keep and spreads the more acceptable valyrian religion, the hightowers are conspiring against the Targaryens with the maesters with the 'maester conspiracy' just eradicates them both and appoints a new family to rule the hightower and the citadel falls under 'new management'. In my opinion the best Targaryen king is Visarys ll since he had no dragons and is the reason the targe lasted another 150 year.
I think that's sort of George's point too, is that the targaryens because of their dragons, took a lot less for them to be that much greater. whereas, it's always been that much harder for those of us on the ground
All of the stories of Aegon are just trying to explain why him just having dragons through no real action of his own and using them is somehow a feat of his genius. Its very propagandist, and I assume its supposed to be propagandist
It reminds me of that one scene in Avatar: The Last Airbender that I despised as a kid where Azula explains the "Strategic genius" of the great grandpa, where the battle is won because there was a drought and the EARTH kingdom's "defenses burned" his strategy is just use fire which is just the main default weapon the fire nation has, and the fact that the earth nation would have wooden defenses, which for them would be actively harder to construct since they can just bend Earth and rock is actively ridiculous. Still on the fence about that scene because I'm almost completely sure my justification is just my own justification and it's supposed to be a real event.
Wanna hear something, i actualy tought as Aegon being superior to Robert, but after watching this, not only i know i was wrong but also, i'm feeling stupid for it.
So, yeah, thank you for that
You earned this new sub
Welcome to the fight brother ✊🏼 these Targaryans need to be taken down a peg