Who Would Win? Littlefinger vs Varys | Game of Thrones
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- Who would Win between Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish against Varys the Spider. Who is the greatest spymaster between the 2?
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Contents
00:00 Intro
01:01 Spycraft
05:24 Intel and Spy Quality
11:55 Network Security
14:49 Political Influence
18:03 Conclusion - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Lol, I know I'm bringing up the forbidden season, but I recall a small moment between Varys and Tyrion.
"What does that scroll say?"
"It's a sealed, confidential letter to [Jon Snow]."
"So... what does it say?"
"....nothing good."
Thats how you know Varys is a badass when it comes to spy craft. Genuinely a good character for prequel coverage in all honesty.
Thanks for watching matey! Liam
Given that Varys regarded him as a foe he enjoyed rather than feared, I'd put the Spider ahead. Especially given how few times Varys was caught off-guard by something compared to the times Petyr was 🤔
I think that's definitely the case for them as players of the game of thrones Jeremy my good man. I think as spymasters though its impressive how Littlefinger has managed to beat Varys to the punch a few times due to his willingness to be a little more proactive at the cost of security.
Thanks for watching as always matey, we'll get you over to discord one day 😂 Liam
The thing is in the Books Varys has been trying to figure out what Littlefinger wants and has come out short while Littlefinger doesn't care enough about Varys' plans to try. Considering that Varys wanted Ned alive and Littlefinger wanted him dead. I think Littlefinger has the edge.
@@George-Hawthorne While Littlefinger surely wanted Ned dead, I don't think he wanted it to go that way and definitely not then and there. But Ned forced his hand by insisting Stannis be the next king. In which case Littlefinger would get absolutely nothing for his help. On top of that, Stannis wouldn't have stood for his business practices or brothels all together. Stannis becoming king hurts Lingerfinger in many ways. While he got a castle from the Lannisters. Makes it an easy choice. I just don't think he betrayed Ned just bc he "wanted him dead". He stood to gain from betraying him
@@chrisjolly4880 No I'm certain that it was him that convinced Joffrey to execute him. After all Ned's dead ensured that the war was a devastating as it was. And with everybody that could be a threat to him too busy fighting each other he is able to climb the ladder and now he is in a rather secure position.
Varys also has the huge disadvantage of being the official spymaster. He is called the spider, and people know to be cautious around him. I don't think anyone really knows how expansive little fingers ring is. They know he is a cunning business man and knows things. But I imagine not being a known spy helps more than it limits him. You giving up something when getting help from the master of coin seems a lot less risky than getting something from the master of spies.
Its definitely a boon to Littlefingers game, same with his spies, way less suspicious than mute children scurrying through tunnels 😂 thanks for watching Jake! Liam
Petyr is more of an extremely skilled manipulator and liar who have people close to him who can help him achieve his goals, where Varys is more of an actual spy with an entire spy network across Westeros and Essos. I’d say in this situation Varys is a better spy
I definitely think there is the argument to be made for Varys, he's definitely more professional and has a larger network along with being a better spy personally. But I wouldn't write off Littlefingers network, he's got eyes and ears in all levels of society reporting to him.
Thanks for watching my salty friend! Liam
Varys honestly feels omniscient sometimes in the books. I was so confused how he knew the letter Tyrion gave to Pycelle when he was trying to find out who was Cersi's informant.
Also confused why upon learning that Varys knows about his talk with Grand Maester, Tyrion still felt confident about his test being capable of screening Varys.
Remember your "Kingdom under Littlefinger" vid? What if he and Varys found a compromise and joined forces? How formidable would their combined spy network be?
I think they would take over the world not just westeros if they put their heads together my friend, they are lethal on their own! Thanks for watching matey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClipsgimme that video! Little finger and Varys team up
I think we have to give it to varys just off the fact that he's working with a plan and has to keep dealing with random occurrences that speed up slow down or even stop his plans. meanwhile little finger doesn't have a plan he just does whatever he wants with the goal of using the chaos to his benefit. for example because littlefinger doesn't;t care about anything he can just leave anywhere in chaos without caring, meanwhile varys is shackled to kingslanding even when he's being hunted as a traitor because he needs to be there for his plans to succeed. in short littlefinger is plating with all the agency and freedom meanwhile varys has to deal with everything with in a time constraint and he's still surfing on Littlefinger.
Littlefinger is impressive to even rival Varys, given that he's ostensibly minister of coin, having arrived on the King's Landing scene decades after Varys did and thus has had far less time to cultivate his powerbase. All that being said...there's a reason Varys is the standard to which all spymasters must ultimately be measured against.
Not sure how you put a question mark over the security. The very fact that Littlefinger’s spies can all be flipped makes him lose that round badly
Because reasons....
I think that was a joke.
We were being sarcastic Connor good buddy! Varys took it by such a laughable margin that we thought people would just get we were taking the micky 😂 our bad my friend! Thanks for watching! Liam
I feel saying Varys only has is little birds isn't fair. We know he had Jorah spying on Danny for him. I feel that is enough to say he most likely has other spys who aren't little boys out there than just Jorah
You guys never miss! Can’t believe Varys just kills all of his little birds when they grow older. As if cutting their tongues out wasn’t cruel enough.
Haha thanks matey! Yeah it's actually more of a plot hole than anything. There aren't a bunch of mute adults knocking around the realm, which there should be if Varys has as many ears as its suspected he does, leaving fans to fill in the gap with the most logical explanation when considering how messed up Westeros is 😂 thanks for watching as always matey!
Why didn't Tywin Lannister try to raise Joffrey himself if he was so important to tywins plan? And frankly, Rob Starks entire rebellion could have been avoided if Tywin just said sorry and sent the stark girls home. I know it's Tywin and he'd never do that. But man, for someone who is so smart, Tywin Sucks at diplomacy.
Some one please tell me I'm not the only one who wants a video on this?
Well, I think, Tywin would not have the power nor reason to get Joffrey as his protegé. Back then Robert was still in charge, and he was backed by 4 of the 7 kingdoms, not counting the Westerlands. And he would have wanted his heir at his side, well, in the same city at least. I don't think sending his eldest son to the other side of the continent was ever an option for him.
Tywin would have needed a very, very good reason to become his guardian. I can think of none.
@@physeter_de595 possibly but you would think Tywin would have been at least a little more active and not well like a distant grandpa
"They released me, didn't they?" Is one level higher than sheldon's "I've been tested" 😂😂😂😂😂
What if Ned declined to leave a ND he send Robb to take his place as the hand of the king
The windows 95 explanation had me rolling.
I think there's a very useful point to make about their counterspying skills. In other words, how well do they handle others (and in this case, the other) spying on them? Admittedly Littlefinger's foremost example of it is show-only, but when Varys recruited Ros to spy on him, he was able to pretty quickly figure her out and get rid of her before she could do any more damage. I don't think we've ever seen Varys engage in any counterintelligence in either form of the story, so his level of skill at it is completely unknown, but it's a very important aspect
I have a feeling that this two are actually secret allies in the books
You Should do Ned Stark vs Tywin Lannister next, comparing Ideology, Strategy, Politics, Family and the Loyalty they inspire
I think the real difference between the two and why I'd also agree Littlefinger is the better spy is explained in the "chaos is a ladder" scene. While Varys is ruthless and will do some pretty despicable things to achieve his goals, he still has SOME moral scruples that he adheres to. His goals are, largely, good-natured, and he plays a patient game to make sure he's dotting his Is and crossing his Ts and not doing anything to truly make things worse.
Littlefinger, on the other hand, is a complete sociopath that will literally delve the world into a Yugoslav style civil war if it meant getting a promotion. Theres no limit to what he's willing to do, and his MO of creating chaos to advance his personal position makes him much more unpredictable.
In the show Littlefinger exposes Ros as a double agent working for Varys (and lets Joffrey use her as target practice). This might show Varys’s limitations when dealing with non child spies and/or show that Littlefinger has decent security in his spy ring if he detected a double agent.
Littlefinger is definitely agile and nimble in the books. He tosses the famed dagger end over end catching it, and deftly avoids a bowl of porridge thrown by sweetrobin.
Maybe a sequel in honor of HotD with Larys Strong VS the White Worm
Nice suggestion GameBawesome 👌 ill definitely add it to the list, hoping we get to see Larys as a greenseer confirmed that could make things very interesting! Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
Varys looks like Charlie Brown and that automatically means he wins by pity
😂
I like the fact that Varys kept Little finger around so he knew what was going on, but he actually respected Tyrion, he doesn’t talk to Baelish as an equal, but he does with Tyrion, at least in the books
Also, who are you going to suspect more? The royal copper counter, or the guy whose job is to collect information
I think that's why Littlefinger shouldn't be underestimated, sure he's less of a pro than Varys but its only more helpful in making him unassuming. Same with his Spies they all do other jobs making them far less suspicious.
Thanks for watching my vinger soaked grace! Liam
“The best liars always tell the truth - they just choose which parts”
- Mark Lawrence, _The Liar's Key_
I feel like this describes Varys very well
Can you imagine if these two tentatively teamed up and shared resources! They would be feared.
I just wunna say i love this channel! Im a major GOT nerd and have watched MANY a GOT videos(seriously its probably in the 100's by now..) and your channel is definitely one of my favourites!
Thanks Behee that comment has most certainly made our day! We will endeavour to become your defacto favourite in future! Thanks for watching! Liam
If I was a king or hand I’m taking Varys as my spy master strictly bc I don’t want Littlefinger trying to stab me in the back every two seconds
My interpretation of Varys, is that he sees himself as a means to an end, and while he may have misgivings sometimes (like killing Kevyn), he never lets them take priority over the bigger picture.
Great vid btw 👍
Thats what makes him the best player of the game in my opinion. Same with his interactions with Ned. There's no way he wasn't racked with guilt and wanted to free the good and honourable man he knew Ned was, but was able to push past his own wants for what he perceived to be the good of the realm.
Thats what makes him so dangerous, his being a good man. Bad people do bad things because they are bad people. But when a good person does bad things, you know they are willing to do anything up to giving their life for the cause and will not stop.
Thanks for watching Seldom matey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Exactly, it's what makes him compelling.
Cheers mate.
13:00 OH MY GOOOOD!!! LMAO "Before ring ring became scroll scroll..." Jesus Christ.
14:50 You're a glutton for punishment. You KNOW I wasn't gonna let that one slide.
These young kids these days with their weird clothes and their music 👨🦳
Haha I'm perpetually prepared now for you mate 🤣
Thanks for watching as always! Liam
At 16:47 you wasted a GOLDEN opportunity to show a clip of Tyrion at his trial in Season 4 over that delivery of "I wish". "I wish I was the monster you think I am!"
But that's just me nitpicking. As always, great video, and I fully agree with your case and argument, you nailed it and convinced me. You guys rock.
Haha dont worry Thom will be punished for his lacking use of meme clips!
Thanks for the kind words and for watching as always matey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips THOMMMMM!!!!
Best fighter Jon snow vs joaha mormont pls...
I'll add it to the list! Liam
?? Weird
Jorah Mormont by a country mile IMO. At least that is what my heart tells me.
I think it's hard to compare their spy networks since they serve a completely different purpose. Varys' birds have a lot bigger reach and will provide him with information all over the place. It is serving Varys but Varys ultimately uses them as information for someone else, to make that other person with power never be surprised and never be on the back foot, ready to exploit weakness. He himself doesn't wield political power but Aegon does. And I think in large parts due to Varys and his little birds he will take King's Landing from Cersei in TWoW. Varys is also very much playing the long game, waiting for Aegon to come of age.
Littlefingers spies on the other hand only serve Littlefinger and themselves. They are by nature also selfish and ambitious just like Littlefinger himself and might burn him at any moment. They are however more powerful and proactive. But they also only work where Littlefinger wants them to. If a threat emerges from a point Littlefinger doesn't expect he's very much on the back foot. For example, Aegon's conquest of King's Landing might fuck over his plans outside of the vale significantly cause that's a hard one to see coming. Littlefinger is an opportunist through and through to the point where he will also create his own opportunities for himself but I think his constantly play with fire will eventually get him burned. Varys is playing the far safer game
Personally Little finger has rapidly become my favorite character. He’s not a good man but he’s by far the most entertaining for me to read/watch and I’m always interested in seeing what he’s scheming.
Varys is certainly a spider, the master of whisperers; everyone knows what he is before they even see him, they know who they are dealing with without even knowing him. Petyr on the other hand is the devil, people trust him, they give him everything on the promises spoken by a forked tongue. I’m my opinion I’m far more terrified of Petyr, he’ll have you calling him friend before you even feel the dagger in your back.
Finished My exams today needed this great video as always
I'm glad we could cheer you up Connor! I wish the best of luck with your results and hope you've got the grades you wanted!
Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam.
I’d say Varys he has them all over the world of game of thrones and a lot of them are very influential. Little finger has his eyes set on the 7 kingdoms and everything going on there which is more of a hindrance in this match up. Also can you do a match up of if there was a free for all of all the houses who would come out of the destruction.
I love the idea, like a demolition Derby for the houses 😂 ill add it to the list!
Thanks for watching Historybuffmuppet! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips be mad can do so much with it
Awesome 👏 can’t remember if i asked for this one but exited anyway
Quite a few people asked for it my friend. I do recall your name among them! Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
It's most important to look at how they both met their ends. Varys sloppily tried to turn Dany's inner circle against her and towards Jon. Only to be betrayed by his friend, Tyrion. While Petyr was outmaneuvered by Sansa, who he spent 8 seasons grooming as his protege/bride. It's definitely Petyr. Based on the show, at least. Varys taking out Kevan Lannister in the books is probably the most boss moment in ADWD.
14:29 wait, who's to say Varys kills off his little birds when they reach maturity? there's no reason they cant still surve a purpose - say, raise new little birds. Besides, their loyalty is already as guaranteed as could be
Its just fan speculation my friend. The evidence to back it up comes from the lack of abundance of adult mute boys in the realms. There should be loads of them knocking around and there just isn't. In all reality its just one of those rare plot holes that has yet to be filled in. But westeros being westeros fans turn to the darkest logical potenial explanation over the nice kind one 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
Of course, we all know Mace the Ace is the real mastermind behind it all
Of course my good lord of spud! Noone would ever question the mastery of Mace the Ace.
Thanks for watching mate! Liam
Lil finger literally set all plots in motions. He got my vote
And I have another question on Tywin. He only cares about benefiting the Lannister name right? So.... Why not instead of marrying Cersei to Robert Baratheon. Marry her to the Tyrells and fuse the families together, or marry to the starks? I know Tywin tried in show but I mean.... Do it when Cersei is young and hasn't committed twincest yet. If the Tyrells and Lannisters were one house that would be a very great prize for house Lannister.
As one of the people looking forward to this video I'm happy with the results and breakdown of what makes a good spy master, I hate how they ended both characters in the TV show and hope to get the books to correct that, totally agree with the choice of best player of the game of thrones too since doing anything results in death most of the time a wait for everyone else to die strategy does start to look appealing, now you just need to make videos explaining who else is on your small council.
#justice4Varys&LF
I do too Kyle mate, I think they sort of had the right idea for Littlefingers death being that his own plots and schemes impoded on him but just rushed and terrible execution
Varys, there is no sense whatsoever, just seems they wanted to have one more shocking death before the end 😂
Thanks for watching as always mate, your presence in the comments is always a welcome sight! Liam
Same, Little finger dying without even trying to dispute the charges that are loose at best, a boy claiming he can see all and sansa going back on what she already claims was the truth hurts especially when no repercussions comes from killing such an influencing person in thrones also feels wrong, unfortunately par for the course in the late seasons and we hope for the books, but if his plans collapsing and enough time given who do you think would be most satisfying to drive the final knife in his back?
Keep in mind that Varys has been playing the game of thrones longer than little finger so he has more experience. Though spy wise Varys is an internet hacker who has no problem spending a whole year stealing your identity. While little finger could easily fit as a spy in a James Bond movie.
What if the white walkers attacked during Roberts rebellion
The reason they didn't attack during the rebellion is because they knew Robert was still alive and they'd end up getting solo'd ;)
Great video again guys ! Liam i hope you stopped the little birds from spying on you who knows who sent them? Stay vigilant!
Thanks Hayden! Unfortunately Thom refused to give me an Alibi :/ "Its murder and its illegal and its wrong" apparently. Don't see what the fuss is in all honesty.
Thanks for watching as always mate! Liam
Little finger caused many wars and deaths, Varys wrote a few letters and got burned at the stake, little finger was killed by Arya, but he made so many effective moves first
See i think a good VS episode would be who is the better commander Robb Stark or Stannis Baratheon (And no i'm not just suggesting this to torture Liam when he realises and had to admit the Norths true king beats his beloved manis).
Both men have solid combat records Robb won every battle and Stannis fought in some of the worst battles in recent Westero history, they both have had to make do with army's at less then ideal sizes, Robb's army was way under strength at the start of his campagin and he was able to keep going when he lost the Karstarks and Stannis has had to make do with a tiny army most recently in the books, they are also both willing to lead from the front.
Also they are able to inspire loyalty in their own men like Stannis at Storms End and loyalty people like Davos have for Stannis.
Robb is also able to inspire loyalty in his own men like how he was able to get the Great Jon to back down and i think this one says a lot about Robbs ability to inspire, Perwyn Frey and Olyvar Frey serves as Robbs personal guard and squire and at no point does Walder try and get them to attack him or are they involved in the Red Wedding which means the rest of the Freys must have seen them as friends to Robb at the least and saw them as unreliable to them and reliable to Robb which given that house is frankly a feat for the gods.
But they both have flaws Stannis has no love from the nobles meaning his army is always on the back foot and while he is able to inspire loyalty in his foot sloggers the Northmen in his army marching to Winterfel right now are more marching to save Arrya (Jane) and kill the Bolton for what they did to the Starks then any love for Stannis.
Robb is too stuck in his honourable ways and while he was able to recover from some of these mistakes he does make so blunders that could have bitten him badly, like his failure to inform Edmure about the plan for the Mountian and Robb was putting way to much trust into the Freys and Boltons way to much.
What if Jon snow was raised by Ashara dayne in Dorne (as payment for Ned having killed her brother)
Oooo I like that buddy, that's getting added to the list!
Varys. Period. It is not even debatable. Both are geniouses but Varyses motives are far less cold and less personal. Littlefinger is ruled by ego, desire, frustration, malice, revenge and ambition. Varys is simply following... a long term plan. He is castrated, and lived trough far worse than Littlefinger, it is not far fetched to believe he would sacrifice himself for his goals and his friend Illyrio. Also, littlefinger is quicker to underestimate his enemies, pawns and allies alike. It will be his downfall in the books as well.
The editor knows ball
He certainly does, thats why I keep Thom around 😂 don't know what I do without him in all honesty. Thanks for watching Skiron! Liam
If you are a king, Varys is a better choice for spymaster, specifically because he'd be easier to extract if necessary. And, if they were to have a head to head matchup, Varys would have one advantage (or lack of hindrance) that would cost Littlefinger has a dick. And Littlefinger does let it affect his decisions. Varys could easily set a trap with Sansa as bait, and Littlefinger ends up dead.
Do you think the last category could go to Varys when his goal is realized? If the invasion is successful Varys will be the only one of them to put a king on the throne. Also Varys has survived and thrived in four separate political factions (Mad King, Bobby B, Lannisters, and the Targaryen Reboot)
I think it will depend on how the Faegon invasion pans out in all honesty and how Faegon decides to reward Varys. What lost Varys the round was his lack of political resources outside of his position as master of whispers. If Faegon gives him some fancy new position and some holdings and titles, he'd probably have more of a case.
Thanks for watching Benjamin! Liam
You appear to believe Varis has no other spys than his little birds , Varis assign all data to his birds to keep to others secret but jonas is not a boy or mute so there are known examples.
No we don't Alan my friend, we even said in the video, its possible he employs other people to spy for him, but we know his most predominant source of spies is the little birds.
Thanks for watching! Liam
Varys has a king landing in the stormlands, feel like he played the game better.
I haven't read the books...but have learned a lot of lore here on YT. I don't see how Varys isnt the obvious answer. I believe you guys "out-thought" yourselves and came to the controversial decision...rather than the one right in front of you 😅
An excellent point-counterpoint discussion.
There are a few points I'd like to make that would have turned this back to Varys's advantage, despite improving Littlefinger's performance.
Spycraft: This would still be an advantage for Varys, but Littlefinger is no slouch either. After his humiliating defeat to Brandon Stark, Littlefinger dedicated himself to knifework instead. In Book 1, Eddard notices Littlefinger is constantly twirling that dagger with a mastery that would be truly deadly. However, it only succeeded because of Littlefinger's single identity as the man who is only too happy to serve. It let him get so close he put the knife to Eddard's throat (Sorry, Ned).
Varys, retains his big advantage because he can disguise himself so well. Even a Lord Regent wouldn't be safe, catching a crossbow bolt from a common serving man who turned out to be Varys in disguise (Sorry, Kevan). 1 Point to Varys.
Intel & Spy Quality: I would disagree on the outcome of this round, but only because fans of the books and show assume ALL of Varys's spies are children. It seems we've all forgotten that Illyrio Mopatis and Ser Jorah Mormont were also parts of Varys's spy network. Those little birds across the Narrow Sea would need handlers to maintain their codependency/loyalty. Handlers would be older and more astute at interpreting the intel they're given, sending it back to Varys. However, even if someone discovered Varys used children, they'd just be more likely to overlook the handlers and other assets like Ser Jorah. Meanwhile, Littlefinger's spies are varied but capable of disloyalty and always willing to serve new masters if the pay is better (RIP Ros). 1 Point to Varys
Network Security: This would still be a tie because Varys relied on a sickening codependency in his little bird while Littlefinger was capable of giving compromised or disloyal assets Early Retirement (like a Bladerunner). 1 point to Varys, 1 point to Littlefinger.
Political Influence: Littlefinger does sweep this round based on the show and current place in the books. He had his fingers on the scales of Westeros's entire economy, he had brokered the Lannister-Tyrell Alliance, and then brought the Vale into his influence. Big point to Littlefinger, based on the current placement of the show. HOWEVER, this is discounting all the little details that indicate there may be another Aegon (a FAegon, if you will) who may have landed in the Stormlands as part of Varys's scheme to put a Targaryen (or Blackfyre) on the Iron Throne all along. 1 point to Littlefinger (possible point to Varys)
So the score is Littlefinger: 2 and Varys: 3 (possibly 4)
The outcome of their respective spy networks opposing one another is far from certain. Despite his disadvantage, Littlefinger could still pull out a win by relying heavily on his vast economic resources while Varys would be dependent on what is effectively a grass-roots movement-version of a spy network.
I'm curious who you think would win between Jaime Lannister and Robert Baratheon. I think it could be a good match
Cat said it early on Petyr is smart but not wise
What if Dynarius Targaryen simply married joffrey or tommen and took her dragons with her?
Also why doesnt Tywin punish Cersei? Since Cersei screws up Tywins plans more often then anyone. She's even worse then Joffrey!
I think anyone can be good at this with the right knowledge I mean Tyrion sets up his own in a few months
I think anyone can be good but I think it takes something special to be a master at it. I imagine Tyrion could have been an amazing spymatser had he been given a fair shake at it! Thanks for watching as always unreal! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Agreed I mean Jaime literally goes throughout the tunnels at the start of Feast and Varys hasn’t left yet as he’s in KL at the end of Dance. 🍻 look forward to next vid
HOW does this chjannel only have 18k subscribers
We're quite slow on releases compared to other channels which hurts sub growth quite a bit. Slowly but surely though We're picking up our release speed 😂 thanks for watching Felix! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Just saying, this channel is better than many with over 100k subs...In my oppinion
Littlefingers spies as you said they are GROWN and have the inclination of “providing false truths” if it is in their best interest, so I’d still give Varys the edge
Thats the argument between them both overall I think Heady. Varys is way more careful about his information and security whereas littlefinger is high risk and high reward.
Like we said in the video, What would you prefer? Security or Results?
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips when you’re right, you’re right my dude. Love the channel!
Sick
Honestly to be fair Varys had a lot more time to play then little finger. If little finger had the same amount of time as Varys I'm pretty sure Varys would have everything he wants by now
Varys vs Tywin who's the better planner?
20 good men💀
Ser twenty of the house goodmen is a bit more like a special forces soldier than a spymaster my friend! Thanks for watching! Liam
Bloodraven negs both of them
Haha that is very true Debater. Bloodraven negs everybody in just about everything minus combat 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
I think while little finger is the better player of the game, with the manipulation and ambition and cunning.
Varys has to be the better spymaster, his network seems larger and more dependable. Littlefinger’s spies work for him for the money and out of fear, which often means they are more likely to fold and turn on him if they get a better offer (like with Ros when Varys recruits her)
See im the other way round. I think Varys is the better player and Littlefinger is a better spymaster by the skin of his teeth (but i don't think it will last much longer)
When putting them against each other for this i found the argument boiled down to whats more important? Security or results?
I'm quite biased towards Varys as a character in all honesty but I just couldn't seem to argue with littlefingers results 😂
Thanks for watching Buzz! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips in my view, Varys has the better access to information but Little finger is able to do more with his information, which is why I say he is a better player (tho I have only seen the show so my knowledge is one sided). But it’s two completely different strategies so it’s hard to compare them.
Varys is a lie and wait for the right moment to strike (like freeing Tyrion and leaving King’s Landing) whereas Littlefinger is more of a catalyst, causing events to help achieve his goals (like war with the starks and lannisters)
But, at least in the show, Varys seems to know more than Littlefinger, especially since Littlefinger’s network ends at Westeros.
Ned stark vs Tywin who is better at securing family future. Starks and Lannisters are rivals.
What if Varys found out about Jon being Raegars son when Ned got him from the tower of joy
Aegon would still come first in the line of succession ( assuming he's not a fake)
He’s a Blackfire
Where’s the Ned Starrk video?
I think house Baelish comes from beyond the wall, not bravos.. this has nothing to do with the video just sending it into the ether
I got it! Whos the worst spy master?
I'm sure we'd find some way to make that answer Balon Greyjoy 😂
@@TheFandomeClips i can't wait:).
Littlefinger is better at literally everything. Only a casual would think otherwise
Varys..he's the wildcard...
I need a better how the Lanisters could win or how the Targaryans could have won.
Lions are in the works!
Varys is the dark horse of GOT. Varys all the way.
Tywin V. Olenna for who is the better head of Household
Now that is a quality suggestion! It's going on the list! Though in the books it's mot quite clear whose i charge at high garden like it is in the show. Mace is a little bit more competent 😂 thanks for watching Adam! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Well if were dedicated to using the books, we could modify the idea to just Lannister v. Tyrell which house is better at climbing up the ladder?
This is one I’m going to have to disagree with. You guys certainly do some good research etc. But this was a wrong conclusion.
To be honest, I would reverse the results of this video and the "Best Player" video. Littlefinger is the lesser Spymaster, whilst being the better player of the game. I will also note I have a massive bias against Littlefinger as one of the most detestable people in the books/show (Yes Ramsey and the Mountain are worse but I detest Littlefinger). Any character who will deliberately ruin the nation for their own enrichment is a monster and he is probably responsible for as many deaths as anyone else in the whole AOIAF setting. I do hate him. (For the record the only character I despise more irrationally is Renly "never did anything right in his life" Baratheon).
Still I hope I make sense.
Amongst other things, one of the main differences between the 2 is that they are NOT playing the same game. Littlefinger is playing the game of "advancing my interests at all costs and the devil take the hindmost" approach. He sets up his resources in order to do this and so focuses on getting in with the nobles and utterly f******** up the finances of the realm to enrich himself. He is trying to accrue personal power and that is what he gains. I also think you overrate the access his brothels give him as they are for the most part a pretty passive sort of information gathering too. If the right people don't show up then he cannot get access to them that way. His merchants are a more active source of data but unless they are actively seeking things for him then they are also just another passive means of passing information on.
Varys is scheming to a) keep the situation at a nice even boil whilst he gets Aegon into position, and b) gather information from a wide variety of sources in order to act when the moment is right. He is not trying to get power for himself and so he doesn't and this means he will not make enemies in the same way that Littlefinger does once he starts to gain power. He is trying to quietly get his enemies to screw themselves over whilst setting himself up to avoid suspicion. And his main spy network is perfectly set up to do that.
I would also add that his little birds need not be a passive a network as you imply they would be. He sends them on missions to do key tasks for him, the assassination of Kevan Lannister being a prime example. And that one is pulled off even after he is out of the city. He is more than capable of sending them off to look into key players when he wants. He does not, it must be said, have quite the same immediate access to the highborn as Littlefinger but he has enough to be going on there and to make things happen when he needs to.
Both are indeed good at both, and on their best days each can outwit the other, but I give the win to Varys and look forward to the day he personally leads Sansa to throwing Littlefinger through the moon door....... a man can dream right?
"was"
What if Brann was evil
Don't worry Liam, I know you're not mad. But your plan do the kid isn't a good one. Parents tend to complain
Then ill silence them also! They're probably in on it!
Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
Second rate at least
LITTLEFINGER IS SMOOTHER, MORE FOXY N BETTER SHADOW WALKER WICH MAKES HIM BETTER.
Bran would win between little finger and varys.
I think all Greenseers get the win in these types of match ups in all honesty 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
Little finger is rich
Larys Feet-network is better than these guys
😂 his feets of dipping his toes into spy craft certainly demonstrate hes got a foot in the door thats for sure Hilts
LF, the entire counsel wants him back including Jaime. No one liked Varys.
Edit: Not surprising a YT nerd content creator wouldn’t think highly of social approval of their higher ups in someone’s ability to get their plans done.
Varis wins
Thom is better at everything except reading the narration. Love you Thom (u smarmy argument winning and only slightly less brilliant sounding git)
I can accept that… Liams definitely the better writer though 😂😂 Are you on our discord? -Thom
@@TheFandomeClips Am now!
yooo
If this included season 8 neither would win…
Haha there's a reason we said we'd be leaning hardest on the books 😂
I really think that Cersei should have been the mad queen and Not Dany. I also think that Dany should have won the game of thrones and in Tyrions final meeting, i think it should have been revealed that Tyrions birth wasn't what really killed the mom but the entire time Cersei just told everyone that was what killed her cause she blamed him.. and then Tyrion finally ends her like in the prophecy.
Varys.
Lf=typical manipulative politician
Varys=cia director
Haha while I totally agree regarding Varys I think that's doing Littlefinger a little dirty lol 😆
@@TheFandomeClips I mean lf is a great manipulator