It was good but it was definitely not one of my top tracks, I would put Hydrocity Zone, Icecape Zone, and even Marble Zone far above Carnival Night Zone, and the ending them really is subpar, I honestly would be down with both tracks being replaced if it means we actually start getting new releases on todays market.
@Phyrion Aurum I made an entire review on the game (it kinda sucked) and the game isn't the best, but it still runs well and it's great to take on like a road trip with Mario Kart DS if you want to play Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
@Phyrion Aurum There are some problems with the games, but it was how I originally how I beat Sonic 3 & Knuckles. It was the only version I had of the game for over a year so I ended up 100%ing the game on all save slots.
Video game piracy is a Bad, Dangerous activity which should only be carried out by Smooth Criminals. You Are Not Alone. This game is Just Another Part of Me.
We need to organise a peaceful protest. Don't Stop Til You Get Enough re-releases of S3+K. We shall rise to this challenge and Beat It. They'll say, "Leave Me Alone!", but they really should give this game One More Chance. After One Night in Japan, you might think this attitude is odd, but it'd be Stranger in Moscow.
Which is probably why SEGA went back to the songs done by Jackson and his team, and just hoped it would never be an issue. Someone heard the non-Jackson songs and went “these are crap compared to those”. Unfortunately, we kind of dug our own graves. Gamers are the ones who wouldn’t let sleeping dogs lie, and made SEGA nervous to rerelease those tunes.
@@DiscordedHaru That's my point. Just because they lack polish and it's not finished, doesn't mean they will stay bad forever. Just need more work on them. That's how music creation works.
@@MahNamJeff For me, it represents Sonic and Tails' feeling of "yeah, we're gonna take down that Buttnik again!" before they realise how serious he actually is about his plans to take over the world during the second half of the game. Act 1 sounds more upbeat, while Act 2 is more like "this might be a little harder than we thought! no matter, we'll win anyway"
I fundamentally disagree with the “The tracks aren’t even that good” line. Sonic 3 part 1 is nothing without ice caps or launch based music tracks, and I sorta would miss carnival night too lmao.
Angel island act 2 hyrdocity act 1 & 2 Marble garden act is okay, Marble garden act 2 is decent I like Carnival act 1 and 2, I think they are actually pretty good. Miniboss theme is good from both S3 and S&K. Ice cap act 1 is good, Ice cap act 2 is heavenly. Major boss theme is very good, the final boss theme is one of the best final boss themes. Yeeaaaa...no. Almost every track in S3&K is actually pretty good.
FlyingTankEngine Studios Jackson wasn’t involved in all of those tracks. I had the PC version and Angel Island and Hydrocity had the same music as the Genesis version, which leads me to believe those songs were ones MJ wasn’t involved in. I’m not sure what tracks MJ helped produce, but this guy’s point seems to be that the songs attributed to MJ aren’t that good.
@@brandonreed3670 Yeah, it's hard to know for sure... But some tracks just sound SO similar to micheal jackson's songs from the same era. Stranger in Moscow for one... Listen to that then some of the sonic sountrack. Icecap zone is also a bit... Familiar... But actually it is almost an exact match for a 1982 song that was never released. The song relates to a musician that worked with MJ, but it's not MJ himself. th-cam.com/video/H2OWC5Hosv8/w-d-xo.html I mean this is SO obviously the same song. Not even a a question...
>Michael's Music isn't even that good That's a bad take right there. While Michael Jackson might not have worked on all the songs in the soundtrack, I've listening to both the beta soundtrack, the PC version, and the one that we had included in the original genesis release and I can say that I'm so much happier that we go the compositions from Michael Jackson. I actually think Sonic 3's credits music is much better than the one we get in the "& Knuckles" expansion because it felt a lot more iconic. It had a better sense of finality than just a music medley. I'm glad we got his music. That being said, I would drop those tracks in a heartbeat if it meant we could get a proper taxman remake for modern hardware. I would love new music to be composed again, but hey, what are we gonna do? Not be able to play Sonic 3 & K on modern hardware! Or Sonic 1 and 2 on anything other than a phone for that matter!
@@retrofan4963 they've genuinely just sounded incomplete to me. Even when people try to add to it more to complete it themselves it always sounds empty or like it's missing something. I think of they got Sega's official same music guy to fully finish those tracks maybe it would be different. But as it stands they always sound incomplete.
10:09 “It’s out there, but it might not always be.” Considering the fact that SEGA de-listed Sonic 3 & Knuckles off of Steam with the release of Orgins, this aged like fine wine.
Let's not forget that in 2013, it was discovered that Ice Cap Zone's music was based on an unreleased 80s song called: Hard Times by The Jetzons, and not based on a Michael Jackson song.
I feel like this needs to be mentioned, due to how little Sonic 3 & Knuckles gets ported nowadays, and with how there never was a Taxman and Stealth remake made for the game. There is a fan project named Sonic 3: Angel Island Revisited. It’s essentially a fan remaster of Sonic 3, and it contains the entire game as we all know it but in widescreen 60 fps, as well as containing bonus features not contained in the original version, such as the Peelout and Drop Dash from the other 2D Sonic games, the option to use the recently discovered beta music, achievements, a time trial mode for the actual stages, etc etc. I heavily recommend that anyone interested in playing Sonic 3 checks it out. It’s the best version of one of the series’ best titles. All someone needs to play it is a S3K rom on their computer (purchaseable on Steam from SEGA still or obtainable in other ways) and the download for the game.
I mean... There's a worst fate for a Game besides "Not being ported nowadays". Just look at the Advance series, brigth colorful visuals, beautiful music, fun gameplay, and still nowadays the only "Legal" way to play the Game is to purchase a GBA.
@@MilesAway Actually, I've checked the lineup of GBA games available on the Wii U eShop both via Wikipedia and the eShop itself, and I did not find any of the Advance games on either list so... yeah.
6:27 I LOVE Mystic Cave Zone's music and just everything about the zone. Edit: and yes the spike pit because it brings you to Hidden Palace in the mobile remake.
I find it funny this whole thing happened due to the music, then around december of the same year this video uploaded; a prototype was uncovered showing that the pc version music was indeed a slightly better quality of the pre-jackson release. Meaning there is a way to release this game without jacksons music and some content we never saw (like the super sonic form). I bring this all up despite many people now knowing this because, well. Where's the excuse they can release it now? Music? We have proof that isn't the case!
makes sense to me the idea that you can be declared guilty by the court of pubic opinion, then innocent, then guilty again _after you're dead_ has got to be making everyone fucking terrified.
IMO "slightly" is an understatement - the FM And MIDI implementation of those songs in the S3&K collection, again IMO, is pure ass - compared to the versions heard in the 1993-11-03 prototype... especially Carnival Night Act 1 … pure eargasm...
@@KairuHakubi Everyone isn't serially credibly accused of sexually abusing children, so no. And there's no reason to let someone off the hook just because they're dead.
That thumbnail alone makes this worth watching. However, you give the best Sonic reviews that I've seen on TH-cam up to this date. Thank you for giving a perspective that only a true Sonic fan could understand through experience and not through one sided opinions
I'm glad you mentioned it was on loads of other platforms in recent generations. Many speaking about this fail to point that out. I don't think it's down to Michael Jackson. There's something else going on.
It's really hard to tell without some kind of official confirmation. The best any of us can guess is just with more people talking about it, the more of a problem it's become.
@@TechBlade9000 well think about how the cosby allegations are literally decades old and he still got in trouble. Companies see trials like that and they don't even want to dip their toe in the waters of controversy.
I dont buy the whole, "michael jackson wasn't satisfied with the genesis'" sound thing. He had his own game released on the console years before the Sonic 2 even came around. He wouldn't go so blindly into the console, as if he didn't know video game music at the time. Especially after the generation before genesis. Seriously. Of course he know how the system performed in terms of sound quality. The sonic games on mobile aren't ports, they're re-creations. That's why they're 16x9 with other improvements, like 3D 60FPS special stages, and Hidden Palace Zone with a new boss in Sonic 2. They're not ports by any definition. I think that Jackson's family may be holding back Sonic 3, as they've been doing with other things, i think in preserving his image, and not wanting these companies to make money off him after he's passed. Obviously when he was alive, Michael didn't have any issues with it, but maybe his family doesn't like how Sonic 3 exists with no credit given to him. Finally, anyone who knows anything about sonic 3 understands the issue of the licensed music. Most of us, or at least a good portion of us who are in the market for wanting a new sonic 3 re-release understand that it's either going to be no sonic 3, or sonic 3 with some of the music replaced.
@@M3mphix The arcade game was a multiplayer. It wasn't a port at all, just a totally different game with the same name, and given how it sounds, I doubt Michael Jackson was expecting all that much from an even lesser console in the early 90s, given how much of a sonic fan he was. If he'd seen or heard any console in the 80s or early 90s, he'd know what the musical capabilities of the console was. Again, especially if he has a game on the console. He was also in Ready 2 Rumble 2, and a space channel 5 game, and probably some other stuff too.
@@Burning_Typhoon The Jackson family has a lot of money, of course. But the music rights are Sony's if I'm not mistaken. So Sega would actually have to deal with Sony for the rights.
If the music has to be replaced, then just replace them for the prototype tracks of Sonic 3. None of the prototype tracks are done by MJ and his sound team.
I saw the notification on my way home from work and was not ashamed at all when I pulled into a random parking lot to watch it immediately. Awesome video Nick!
When I heard about the Sega Genesis Mini being released in August, I thought of pre-ordering it but I decided to see what games were on it and I was very disappointed to find out Sonic 3 & Knuckles wasn’t going to be on the Sega Genesis Mini so I bought the GameCube and a copy of Sonic Mega Collection instead. A few months later, I saw this at Walmart and it made me want to get it for every other game that was on it that I didn’t already have and by the end of the year, I got it as an early Christmas present.
So 2 years later and were getting the classic mainline games in the sonic origins collection, including 3 and knuckles. So im pretty sure mj wasnt the reason it wasnt being rereleased
1:30 i paused the video after he said "sonic 3 has been in legal limbo with michael jackson" and spent 20 minutes looking into it for him to explain it in a minute
Both games can still be purchased for Xbox 360 and are backwards compatible with the Xbox One It just seems odd to me that if the music rights are the reason for the lack of more recent re-releases (which is possible) that it can still be officially purchased digitally on any platform, even if it was originally released years ago before this became an issue.
Honestly S3&K's OST is the only soundtrack I can listen to from Sonic's Genesis classics. And most of the songs I actually like were made by MJ and/or Brad Buxer.
I like the Carnival Night themes we got. For me, the prototype songs do sound like they would work for a carnival, but not the levels we played in. Especially not after the lights went out. The act 2 theme we got was neat because the main melody from act 1 was left out, which suited that moment. The credits theme also sounds nice. That said, Sonic games are known for having good music. They could replace the songs with something good if they wanted to.
“I understand why these rules are in place. I do believe artists should be compensated for their work.” “But... a little more selfishly...” *”LET ME PLAY MY FUCKING GAME, MAN”* mood
That's a reworked Jetzons song called Hard Times, which is very good on its own too. That is not a Michael Jackson song however it still might get in trouble due to the lead singer being the one who did Ice Cap's track.
I have come from the Future to tell you, thanks to Hidden Palace releasing a Sonic 3 Prototype, the OST from the Sonic 3&Knuckles PC was originally made for the Genesis version before they got Michael Jackson!
Dude, I played Sonic 3 & Knuckles religiously back in the day. I knew all the hacks, where all the Giant Rings were, got perfects in all the special zones. It was the best Sonic game, hands down. The game mechanics introduced with the insta shield, element shields, and Knuckles' gameplay really made the game feel fresh. Plus, the character sprites looked so much better than in Sonic 1 and 2. Kinda bummed me out that Sonic Mania used the sprites from Sonic 2 instead of 3, especially the Super Sonic sprite.
You know what the issue is, it’s a great jam without question, however, this was a common level for us to get stuck in for awhile as kids, and suddenly that results in some seriously overwhelming repetition. Listen to any song too much and overdoing it will, first kill the enjoyment in it, and then if it’s continued beyond that point it becomes a bane on your mind. Literally learning to dislike it based on the accidental connection to displeasure in our brains from being trapped listening to it for hours like some long forgotten, primitive and foreign form of a torture method. Imagine being tied to a chair in a room with constant rave lights flashing day in and day out, while “don’t worry be happy” plays over and over again subtlety in the background. If you didn’t eventually bite off your own tongue in an attempt to bleed out and end it all, and assuming you were eventually rescued, not only would you perpetually hate colorful flashing lights, but any Bobby Mcferrin song would have the potential to send you into PTSD flashbacks and cause you to instantly begin weeping in the fetal position in the children’s clothing section of Walmart on a Sunday at 4pm in December, and when the hired Santa Claus kneels down to ask if you’re ok, you leap onto his shoulders and begin viciously ripping out his beard hair with your teeth in a blind rage until all 8 elves summon every bit of strength they have to pin you down and knock you out with a pressure cooker because there was literally no other way to bring you back to reality and snap you out of it in that moment. All I’m saying is, even though it’s a good song, it might be related to traumatic memories for some people that had a harder time getting through the level, and so, they dislike it because of that subconscious connection and not because it lacks any sort of artistic value. Know what I mean? I thought an arbitrary analogy might help better paint the picture... nothing that actually happened to anyone in any way. No sir. Not that if it did, it wouldn’t be past the statute of limitations for anyone to press charges. No no, not that in the slightest, what makes you think that? Anyway, my favorite jam was from the ice level for sure, what about you guys?
9:58 years ago I got a hankering to play that game only to find out it had been removed from all digital stores, I really want to play it, help me please somebody send help!
Sega could just rerelease it with the songs from the Sonic 3 beta. No legal issues, they won't have to remake anything, and it'd be a lot less boring then just re-releasing the same game.
I gotta tell you, nothing beats sailing the seven seas with the full, finished, widescreen, modified to have all optional content and additional features version of sonic 3 & knuckles and not having to give anyone any money
The thumbnail changes how I’ll see Sonic 3 and Knuckles forever Edit: I like the ending theme, knuckles theme, the carnival night theme(gasp), and ice cap zone
F***ing Pend- sorry, force of habit. F***ing Jackson and/or Brad Buxer and/or Bobby Brooks and/or Cirrocco Jones and/or WHO THE HELL KNOWS? Let’s be honest, it’s at least partially Sega’s fault.
Could you imagine if Nintendo didn't secure the rights to the music of Mario or Zelda? Of course not, that would be stupid. This was your flagship series Sega, no excuses.
They should do a New Sonic series like Nintendo did with Mario. Sonic Rush and the 2D segments in Generations and such were really good,but why not make a full game that way? Look at the success of Mania?
Tbh this was my favorite sonic game in the whole series. I feel that even if this had been the last game in the entire series, then it’d still have been amazing. Whenever I play a sonic game I try to give em the benefit of the doubt, but none of em have affected me the way this game did haha. S3&K needs to be remade. I would want my children and my children’s children to experience this game
Dude, how would you feel if you were watching a video and out of nowhere the narrator insinuated that [thing you love] was actually loved by no one? I LOVE Carnival Night Zone's music--lots of people do! And don't forget that Ice Cap is one of the MJ-associated tracks too (even though it was composed by Brad Buxer), and no one hates Ice Cap Zone.
Fun Fact: Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles is already available for PC. Just go to Steam and it is one of the available games you can buy for SEGA MEGA DRIVE AND GENESIS CLASSICS, they even have steam workshop support that sport some well known hacks for those old games. Hell here are the links for both the game itself and the collection it is for: S3&K: store.steampowered.com/app/71162/Sonic_3__Knuckles/ SMDAGC: store.steampowered.com/app/34270/SEGA_Mega_Drive_and_Genesis_Classics/
Funny how the "crappy"music turned out to be the originals, and now everyone seems to be on board with releasing the game with those songs. Honestly, idk if the MJ music is all that great, but I can't hear anything else in the majority of those levels. I grew up on that music, I love that music, and I don't understand all the Tee Lopes fanfare. His music was ok. But, nothing stuck in my head like the Genesis release of S3&K At least we have S3C
I was one of the few who's first experience with Sonic 3 was on the PC collection. But I only heard the Carnival Night tracks, cause I COULDN'T GET PAST THAT STUPID BARREL. But when I did finally get past it, it was after watching some of the Genesis playthrough online, so I had heard the Genesis tracks for Ice Cap first. So I have an affinity for the PC Carnival Night music and for the Genesis Ice Cap. Feel free to ramble with me.
We’re having Hard Times with Sonic 3 because we created our own Bad Future. Great 😬. Hearing the proto music was a nice surprise, but only Carnival Night’s was polished.
I'd take S3&K on mobile with the PC ost over having no S3&K at all. Yes, ther'd probably be some backlash, but not that much if SEGA communicated it correctly. Like tell everyone about it using the PC soundtrack instead of the Genesis one, (and the reason why this change had to be made) right there when you announce it. Maybe store the songs as plain files, (like how Undertale does) so if someone wants to mod back the original music, they can? Idk. And anyways... The Carnival Night PC theme is better than the Genesis one... YES I SAID IT!!!
They are lost in time because creators feel like, “yo yo yo! I have all this money? I can make and do what i want. Replace old with new” Not knowing how many people enjoyed creating/playing it.
and you're calling the retro engine "mania engine" also apparently the PC collection music is actually the original music for sonic 3, so there is that
The Xbox 360 sega collection had sonic 3 & knuckles as an unlockable. I forget exactly how to do it but I do distinctly remember unlocking it back in the day.
I've never been a 100% convinced that licensing was the sole issue for S3&K. FWIW, personally I'm not sure it isn't intentional. How many more people will buy the Genesis Mini 2 if it ships with S3&K? It could even be a combination of issues. Sega: "We could easily pay the $XXX they're asking but we'll get more sales if we spread the Sonic collection over two products..." I'm not phased, I have the originals and a bagillion ways to play them AND I never picked up a Genesis Mini anyway, for that reason. As I've said countless times before, on practically any site that allows comments... I DON'T NEED ANOTHER WAY TO PLAY MEGA DRIVE GAMES! I DO HOWEVER WANT MORE WAYS TO *BUY* MEGA DRIVE GAMES! Shit they could release them on Steam as add-ons for the Sega Classic collection. Dollar per game? Hell yes Right now, there's just "other options" Yo ho, Sonic warriors indeed! =) P.S. Carnival Night and the Ending Theme kicked arse =p
"Proceeds to play Ice Cap Zone theme while talking about getting rid of the old music" You've got balls sir.
H.D. Look up “hard times by the jetzons “
@@SUPERIORPRODUCTIONSfilms Thank you for introducing me to that song.
@@defnotjef111yearsago3 lies
Thought exactly the same - "MJ's the music wasn't even that good" he says while the Ice Cap theme, the best track in S3&K plays...
oops
"Who even likes Carnival Night Zone's music?" Me
"Who even remembers the end credits theme?" Me!
carnival night was my favorite!!
Speaking of Sonic 3, I was upset that the last boss music was replaced with the lock-on combo. That theme slapped hard
The credits theme still kicks ass, even if it does resemble stranger in Moscow a little too much.
Sonic 3 credits music >>> Sonic and Knuckles credits music
It was good but it was definitely not one of my top tracks, I would put Hydrocity Zone, Icecape Zone, and even Marble Zone far above Carnival Night Zone, and the ending them really is subpar, I honestly would be down with both tracks being replaced if it means we actually start getting new releases on todays market.
At least we will always have Sonic Classic Collection on the DS
@Phyrion Aurum I hate to be THAT guy, but this game runs fine for me.
@@Talondrone same for me
@@Talondrone I love to be THAT guy. Their experiences don't define others.
@Phyrion Aurum I made an entire review on the game (it kinda sucked) and the game isn't the best, but it still runs well and it's great to take on like a road trip with Mario Kart DS if you want to play Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
@Phyrion Aurum There are some problems with the games, but it was how I originally how I beat Sonic 3 & Knuckles. It was the only version I had of the game for over a year so I ended up 100%ing the game on all save slots.
1: Jesus that thumbnail
2: wait You finally made the sonic 3 video! *and knuckles*
Oh this isn't THE video. It's one of many. Stick around.
Game Apologist W A T, good god now I need this thing called patience, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Can’t wait!
3:Not a bonus video
AGuyOn Tube GOOD GOD! (In James Brown voice)
OH GOD, IT'S THE ANGRY SEGA NERD!!!! 😱😂
Video game piracy is a Bad, Dangerous activity which should only be carried out by Smooth Criminals.
You Are Not Alone. This game is Just Another Part of Me.
the fact Sega refuses to rerelease S3+K just makes me want to Scream
Well, it obviously because they don't really care about us!
We need to organise a peaceful protest. Don't Stop Til You Get Enough re-releases of S3+K.
We shall rise to this challenge and Beat It.
They'll say, "Leave Me Alone!", but they really should give this game One More Chance.
After One Night in Japan, you might think this attitude is odd, but it'd be Stranger in Moscow.
oooof
Thriller.
Agree wholeheartedly. Tee Lope's music work has been phenomenal.
Agreed
Ayy
Ironic how “those pc songs suck” since they are the original prototype songs from the beta build found by hidden palace.
Which is probably why SEGA went back to the songs done by Jackson and his team, and just hoped it would never be an issue.
Someone heard the non-Jackson songs and went “these are crap compared to those”.
Unfortunately, we kind of dug our own graves. Gamers are the ones who wouldn’t let sleeping dogs lie, and made SEGA nervous to rerelease those tunes.
@@Jatycre Even though Carnival Night is so much better in the prototype.
The original soundtrack was in the right path. Just needed a little more polish.
Ever think they were prototype songs for a reason?
@@DiscordedHaru That's my point. Just because they lack polish and it's not finished, doesn't mean they will stay bad forever. Just need more work on them. That's how music creation works.
Angel Island, Hydrocity, Ice Cap and Launch Base themes are iconic. Oh, and Blue Sphere.
Flying Battery.
Lava reef, death egg
I really don't like Launch Base. I think the prototype song sounds a lot better.
@@dragonick2947 however it doesnt fit at all tonally. its too upbeat at its own detriment
@@MahNamJeff For me, it represents Sonic and Tails' feeling of "yeah, we're gonna take down that Buttnik again!" before they realise how serious he actually is about his plans to take over the world during the second half of the game.
Act 1 sounds more upbeat, while Act 2 is more like "this might be a little harder than we thought! no matter, we'll win anyway"
I fundamentally disagree with the “The tracks aren’t even that good” line. Sonic 3 part 1 is nothing without ice caps or launch based music tracks, and I sorta would miss carnival night too lmao.
Angel island act 2
hyrdocity act 1 & 2
Marble garden act is okay, Marble garden act 2 is decent
I like Carnival act 1 and 2, I think they are actually pretty good.
Miniboss theme is good from both S3 and S&K.
Ice cap act 1 is good, Ice cap act 2 is heavenly.
Major boss theme is very good, the final boss theme is one of the best final boss themes.
Yeeaaaa...no. Almost every track in S3&K is actually pretty good.
Special stage zone...end credits cmon now this guy is buggin the original music DOES matter especially for us who grew up on the game over 25 years
FlyingTankEngine Studios Jackson wasn’t involved in all of those tracks. I had the PC version and Angel Island and Hydrocity had the same music as the Genesis version, which leads me to believe those songs were ones MJ wasn’t involved in. I’m not sure what tracks MJ helped produce, but this guy’s point seems to be that the songs attributed to MJ aren’t that good.
@@brandonreed3670 Yeah, it's hard to know for sure...
But some tracks just sound SO similar to micheal jackson's songs from the same era.
Stranger in Moscow for one...
Listen to that then some of the sonic sountrack.
Icecap zone is also a bit... Familiar...
But actually it is almost an exact match for a 1982 song that was never released. The song relates to a musician that worked with MJ, but it's not MJ himself.
th-cam.com/video/H2OWC5Hosv8/w-d-xo.html
I mean this is SO obviously the same song.
Not even a a question...
Ice Cap Act 1 is a bop, certainly. Act 2 sounds like something broke on the sound chip and it is only playing 3 of the parts.
>Michael's Music isn't even that good
That's a bad take right there. While Michael Jackson might not have worked on all the songs in the soundtrack, I've listening to both the beta soundtrack, the PC version, and the one that we had included in the original genesis release and I can say that I'm so much happier that we go the compositions from Michael Jackson. I actually think Sonic 3's credits music is much better than the one we get in the "& Knuckles" expansion because it felt a lot more iconic. It had a better sense of finality than just a music medley.
I'm glad we got his music.
That being said, I would drop those tracks in a heartbeat if it meant we could get a proper taxman remake for modern hardware. I would love new music to be composed again, but hey, what are we gonna do? Not be able to play Sonic 3 & K on modern hardware! Or Sonic 1 and 2 on anything other than a phone for that matter!
I prefer the beta tracks tbh, especially when they're played on Sonic 3 Complete.
The prototype tracks are great too. Never understand why the beta tracks are hated.
@@retrofan4963 they've genuinely just sounded incomplete to me. Even when people try to add to it more to complete it themselves it always sounds empty or like it's missing something.
I think of they got Sega's official same music guy to fully finish those tracks maybe it would be different. But as it stands they always sound incomplete.
@@FlameEliwood Even incomplete, they're still great tracks in my opinion. But yeah, It'd be great to hear how they sound like if their complete.
In my opinion I like the beta tracks of carnival night zone and launch base zone better than final
10:09 “It’s out there, but it might not always be.”
Considering the fact that SEGA de-listed Sonic 3 & Knuckles off of Steam with the release of Orgins, this aged like fine wine.
I heard that Michael Jackson was signed on to HELP compose music but he never got around to crafting any tracks.
6:21 i like that song, and yes, I remember the end credits, because it's Stranger In Moscow.
The credis music is my favourite song in sonic 3
Let's not forget that in 2013, it was discovered that Ice Cap Zone's music was based on an unreleased 80s song called: Hard Times by The Jetzons, and not based on a Michael Jackson song.
I feel like this needs to be mentioned, due to how little Sonic 3 & Knuckles gets ported nowadays, and with how there never was a Taxman and Stealth remake made for the game.
There is a fan project named Sonic 3: Angel Island Revisited. It’s essentially a fan remaster of Sonic 3, and it contains the entire game as we all know it but in widescreen 60 fps, as well as containing bonus features not contained in the original version, such as the Peelout and Drop Dash from the other 2D Sonic games, the option to use the recently discovered beta music, achievements, a time trial mode for the actual stages, etc etc.
I heavily recommend that anyone interested in playing Sonic 3 checks it out. It’s the best version of one of the series’ best titles. All someone needs to play it is a S3K rom on their computer (purchaseable on Steam from SEGA still or obtainable in other ways) and the download for the game.
I mean... There's a worst fate for a Game besides "Not being ported nowadays".
Just look at the Advance series, brigth colorful visuals, beautiful music, fun gameplay, and still nowadays the only "Legal" way to play the Game is to purchase a GBA.
@@CuriousGuy_ The advance series is on Wii U lmao
@@MilesAway Actually, I've checked the lineup of GBA games available on the Wii U eShop both via Wikipedia and the eShop itself, and I did not find any of the Advance games on either list so... yeah.
A fam remaster?
Gavin Wilson It was a typo. I meant the word “fan”
"do you even remember the sonic 3 end credit music" - yea, it's fucking awesome
Dude literally used it in the start of the video.
6:27 I LOVE Mystic Cave Zone's music and just everything about the zone.
Edit: and yes the spike pit because it brings you to Hidden Palace in the mobile remake.
But, I also have Sonic 3"s credits in my head.
I find it funny this whole thing happened due to the music, then around december of the same year this video uploaded; a prototype was uncovered showing that the pc version music was indeed a slightly better quality of the pre-jackson release.
Meaning there is a way to release this game without jacksons music and some content we never saw (like the super sonic form). I bring this all up despite many people now knowing this because, well.
Where's the excuse they can release it now? Music? We have proof that isn't the case!
It could just be that Sega is being so overly cautious that they're afraid to even risk raising awareness of the issue. :-/
makes sense to me
the idea that you can be declared guilty by the court of pubic opinion, then innocent, then guilty again _after you're dead_ has got to be making everyone fucking terrified.
IMO "slightly" is an understatement - the FM And MIDI implementation of those songs in the S3&K collection, again IMO, is pure ass - compared to the versions heard in the 1993-11-03 prototype... especially Carnival Night Act 1 … pure eargasm...
@@KairuHakubi Everyone isn't serially credibly accused of sexually abusing children, so no. And there's no reason to let someone off the hook just because they're dead.
it's cute you think there's such a thing as credible accusation, but worrying that the court of public opinion has no double jeopardy clause.
That thumbnail alone makes this worth watching.
However, you give the best Sonic reviews that I've seen on TH-cam up to this date. Thank you for giving a perspective that only a true Sonic fan could understand through experience and not through one sided opinions
I'm glad you mentioned it was on loads of other platforms in recent generations. Many speaking about this fail to point that out. I don't think it's down to Michael Jackson. There's something else going on.
It's really hard to tell without some kind of official confirmation. The best any of us can guess is just with more people talking about it, the more of a problem it's become.
It might be because of the Micheal Jackson ordeal PLUS how the internet reacts to any form of controversy nowadays
@@TechBlade9000 well think about how the cosby allegations are literally decades old and he still got in trouble. Companies see trials like that and they don't even want to dip their toe in the waters of controversy.
if it was related to MJ... wouldnt they just change the music? I mean sure people would be pissed, but thatd just be a vocal minority.
@@cygnusprime6728 He admit to it in court.
I dont buy the whole, "michael jackson wasn't satisfied with the genesis'" sound thing. He had his own game released on the console years before the Sonic 2 even came around. He wouldn't go so blindly into the console, as if he didn't know video game music at the time. Especially after the generation before genesis. Seriously. Of course he know how the system performed in terms of sound quality.
The sonic games on mobile aren't ports, they're re-creations. That's why they're 16x9 with other improvements, like 3D 60FPS special stages, and Hidden Palace Zone with a new boss in Sonic 2. They're not ports by any definition.
I think that Jackson's family may be holding back Sonic 3, as they've been doing with other things, i think in preserving his image, and not wanting these companies to make money off him after he's passed. Obviously when he was alive, Michael didn't have any issues with it, but maybe his family doesn't like how Sonic 3 exists with no credit given to him.
Finally, anyone who knows anything about sonic 3 understands the issue of the licensed music. Most of us, or at least a good portion of us who are in the market for wanting a new sonic 3 re-release understand that it's either going to be no sonic 3, or sonic 3 with some of the music replaced.
Moonwalker was an arcade game mind, before it was a Genesis/Megadrive port.
@@M3mphix The arcade game was a multiplayer. It wasn't a port at all, just a totally different game with the same name, and given how it sounds, I doubt Michael Jackson was expecting all that much from an even lesser console in the early 90s, given how much of a sonic fan he was. If he'd seen or heard any console in the 80s or early 90s, he'd know what the musical capabilities of the console was. Again, especially if he has a game on the console. He was also in Ready 2 Rumble 2, and a space channel 5 game, and probably some other stuff too.
@@Burning_Typhoon The Jackson family has a lot of money, of course. But the music rights are Sony's if I'm not mistaken. So Sega would actually have to deal with Sony for the rights.
If the music has to be replaced, then just replace them for the prototype tracks of Sonic 3. None of the prototype tracks are done by MJ and his sound team.
@@retrofan4963 Who knows what the legal agreements were, though. Not to mention, the genesis version would shoot to 60 dollars on ebay.
I’m very happy that Sonic 3&Knuckles exists.
Me too
The bad part in that image is that knuckles was forced to have an uni-eye
I saw the notification on my way home from work and was not ashamed at all when I pulled into a random parking lot to watch it immediately. Awesome video Nick!
I'm SO ready for Sonic Origins FINALLY!!
When I heard about the Sega Genesis Mini being released in August, I thought of pre-ordering it but I decided to see what games were on it and I was very disappointed to find out Sonic 3 & Knuckles wasn’t going to be on the Sega Genesis Mini so I bought the GameCube and a copy of Sonic Mega Collection instead. A few months later, I saw this at Walmart and it made me want to get it for every other game that was on it that I didn’t already have and by the end of the year, I got it as an early Christmas present.
So 2 years later and were getting the classic mainline games in the sonic origins collection, including 3 and knuckles. So im pretty sure mj wasnt the reason it wasnt being rereleased
Or they paid what they needed to.
Some people think that Sonic 3&Knuckles isn’t canon when it is. In sonic mania the SUPER EMERALDS make an appearance during a boss fight.
Sonic 3 complete has everything and sega supports fangames and rom hacks so yeah
Hes saying its the idea sega isnt supporting it and re releasing it on newer platforms.
unless it's a streets of rage fan game...
EM Sega DOES come after fan games dude get real
@@BagzAndPresident they don't
Gavin Wilson yes they do idiot in fact they came after one last year
1:30 i paused the video after he said "sonic 3 has been in legal limbo with michael jackson" and spent 20 minutes looking into it for him to explain it in a minute
Both games can still be purchased for Xbox 360 and are backwards compatible with the Xbox One
It just seems odd to me that if the music rights are the reason for the lack of more recent re-releases (which is possible) that it can still be officially purchased digitally on any platform, even if it was originally released years ago before this became an issue.
Looks like Origins which is comin out in June 2022 will have Sonic 3 & Knuckles in it!!! (along with 1, 2 & CD)
Honestly S3&K's OST is the only soundtrack I can listen to from Sonic's Genesis classics.
And most of the songs I actually like were made by MJ and/or Brad Buxer.
I'm with you on that! Ice Cap/Hard Times is awesome!
The Megadrive's Carnival Night is really the better one too!
What's wrong with Sonic 2's OST? Mystic Cave is awesome, Chemical Plant is badass, and Metropolis sounds great.
Considering the multiple credits for musicians (excluding MJ), how do you know who did what, other than Ice Cap?
Funny how you showed that Scott Pilgrim game and now it's getting re-released on the Switch. How things change in a year
On the topic of music in Sonic 3 Ice Cap Zone’s BGM is from a previously unreleased track Hard Times from the Jetzons.
I like the Carnival Night themes we got. For me, the prototype songs do sound like they would work for a carnival, but not the levels we played in. Especially not after the lights went out. The act 2 theme we got was neat because the main melody from act 1 was left out, which suited that moment.
The credits theme also sounds nice.
That said, Sonic games are known for having good music. They could replace the songs with something good if they wanted to.
What he didn't knew, it was that 2 years later it would be announced
“I understand why these rules are in place. I do believe artists should be compensated for their work.”
“But... a little more selfishly...”
*”LET ME PLAY MY FUCKING GAME, MAN”*
mood
I find it really weird how less than 5 minutes ago I searched Sonic 3 & Knuckles platforms to see what I can get it on
SCOTT PILGRIM IS BACK ON SWITCH
Imagine if Sonic 3 in Sonic Origins had had three totally original Tee Lopes tracks, instead of unfinished prototype placeholders.
Only someone without a soul could forget the Sonic 3 end credits tune
Unapologist: says michael jackson music aren't even good.
Unapologist: *plays Icecap theme in the background*
Me: ironic.
That's a reworked Jetzons song called Hard Times, which is very good on its own too. That is not a Michael Jackson song however it still might get in trouble due to the lead singer being the one who did Ice Cap's track.
Playing Smooth Criminal at the end is a masterstroke and a great layered joke
I have come from the Future to tell you, thanks to Hidden Palace releasing a Sonic 3 Prototype, the OST from the Sonic 3&Knuckles PC was originally made for the Genesis version before they got Michael Jackson!
Dude, I played Sonic 3 & Knuckles religiously back in the day. I knew all the hacks, where all the Giant Rings were, got perfects in all the special zones. It was the best Sonic game, hands down. The game mechanics introduced with the insta shield, element shields, and Knuckles' gameplay really made the game feel fresh. Plus, the character sprites looked so much better than in Sonic 1 and 2. Kinda bummed me out that Sonic Mania used the sprites from Sonic 2 instead of 3, especially the Super Sonic sprite.
Thanks God for Sonic 3 Complete and Sonic 3 A.I.R !
Great video, I totally agree Sonic and Knuckles deserves a remaster.
Man leave Carnival Night Zone alone. That music is my JAM!
facts
You know what the issue is, it’s a great jam without question, however, this was a common level for us to get stuck in for awhile as kids, and suddenly that results in some seriously overwhelming repetition. Listen to any song too much and overdoing it will, first kill the enjoyment in it, and then if it’s continued beyond that point it becomes a bane on your mind. Literally learning to dislike it based on the accidental connection to displeasure in our brains from being trapped listening to it for hours like some long forgotten, primitive and foreign form of a torture method.
Imagine being tied to a chair in a room with constant rave lights flashing day in and day out, while “don’t worry be happy” plays over and over again subtlety in the background. If you didn’t eventually bite off your own tongue in an attempt to bleed out and end it all, and assuming you were eventually rescued, not only would you perpetually hate colorful flashing lights, but any Bobby Mcferrin song would have the potential to send you into PTSD flashbacks and cause you to instantly begin weeping in the fetal position in the children’s clothing section of Walmart on a Sunday at 4pm in December, and when the hired Santa Claus kneels down to ask if you’re ok, you leap onto his shoulders and begin viciously ripping out his beard hair with your teeth in a blind rage until all 8 elves summon every bit of strength they have to pin you down and knock you out with a pressure cooker because there was literally no other way to bring you back to reality and snap you out of it in that moment.
All I’m saying is, even though it’s a good song, it might be related to traumatic memories for some people that had a harder time getting through the level, and so, they dislike it because of that subconscious connection and not because it lacks any sort of artistic value. Know what I mean? I thought an arbitrary analogy might help better paint the picture... nothing that actually happened to anyone in any way. No sir. Not that if it did, it wouldn’t be past the statute of limitations for anyone to press charges. No no, not that in the slightest, what makes you think that?
Anyway, my favorite jam was from the ice level for sure, what about you guys?
BushidoBrownSama bushido is a favorite of mine.
Vidal SuperNinja Diaz is that Vidal from DBZ or something else?, wait that’s videl isn’t it...? Nvm. I think I don’t know what I’m talking about...
BARREL NIGHTMARE FLASHBACKS
9:58 years ago I got a hankering to play that game only to find out it had been removed from all digital stores, I really want to play it, help me please somebody send help!
I always wanted to try s3&k but couldn't find any ports of it
It’s on Steam for just five dollars (plus, there will soon be the Sonic Origins collection).
I listen to Ice Cap Zone's original song, Hard Times, so often. It's sooooo good.
Sonic A.I.R ?? There's a mod that uses the pc/beta music. Im good but i was upset when 3&k. Was not on the mini i tryed find it .
Also couldn't oneof the Mania bois just remix them but remove the king of pop's voice
There was also sonic compilation for the genesis
The music from the sonic and knuckles collection actually comes from the Sonic 3 prototype which is a Genesis game so why can’t they use that?
Sega could just rerelease it with the songs from the Sonic 3 beta. No legal issues, they won't have to remake anything, and it'd be a lot less boring then just re-releasing the same game.
I gotta tell you, nothing beats sailing the seven seas with the full, finished, widescreen, modified to have all optional content and additional features version of sonic 3 & knuckles and not having to give anyone any money
Are you referring to Sonic 3 Complete? :1
The thumbnail changes how I’ll see Sonic 3 and Knuckles forever
Edit: I like the ending theme, knuckles theme, the carnival night theme(gasp), and ice cap zone
I should have clarified in the video, I don't hate the tracks, but if I had to sacrifice them for a killer re-release? I'd be fine with that.
Ice Cap isn't MJ, it's The Jetzons.
this is before sonic origins
Are you as in love with the Sonic 3 credits theme as I am?
As you're soon to find out, I actually talk a little crap about it. Sorry :S
I think it's fine!!!
One of the recently discovered Sonic 3 Beta's has a complete pre jackson soundtrack, which seems to be the one they ported to the pc
And it's better on the Genesis soundchip in beta than the Midi PC version :)
Wait a minute, isn't it already on steam? I own it myself
Me: sees the thumbnail
Me: *so that's what Homeworld thinks of fusion*
Lapis Lazuli FINALLY A SU COMMENT FOR THUMBNAIL!
Lapis Lazuli you fled into the bottom of the sea
I got the Rom for Sonic 3 Complete. Extra settings, includes the knuckles intro on angel island and the sonic3 credits music is still present
F***ing Pend- sorry, force of habit.
F***ing Jackson and/or Brad Buxer and/or Bobby Brooks and/or Cirrocco Jones and/or WHO THE HELL KNOWS? Let’s be honest, it’s at least partially Sega’s fault.
Could you imagine if Nintendo didn't secure the rights to the music of Mario or Zelda? Of course not, that would be stupid.
This was your flagship series Sega, no excuses.
They should do a New Sonic series like Nintendo did with Mario. Sonic Rush and the 2D segments in Generations and such were really good,but why not make a full game that way? Look at the success of Mania?
This guy has a point MICHAEL JACKON IS DED
The quality of your channel is great, can’t believe you’re only at 12.5k subs
I'm glad you mentioned phantasy star. We need remakes/rereleases of he original quadrilogy
Tbh this was my favorite sonic game in the whole series. I feel that even if this had been the last game in the entire series, then it’d still have been amazing. Whenever I play a sonic game I try to give em the benefit of the doubt, but none of em have affected me the way this game did haha. S3&K needs to be remade. I would want my children and my children’s children to experience this game
7:55 "I would love to see another port of this game"
Me after watching Sonic Central: Your wish has been granted
Imagine unironically disliking Sonic 3's music
You can play s&k combined on sonic mega collections.
Carnival Night and the end credits are some of my favorite Sonic songs lmao
the pc music is actuly the music before michale. (I forgot how to spell these 2 words)
It's "actually" and "Michael" respectively
SEGA to Sonic 3: "Sorry, S3&K it just wasn't working out. BYEEEEEEEEE!"
Carnival Night zone was unironically FIRE! Sonic 3 and Knuckles was UNDOUBTEDLY my favorite OST!
Ice cap zone is hard times. It’s was made by the Jetzons. The ice cap zone theme is owned by brad buxer.
7:33 - Altered Beast was the original pack-in game before they changed it to Sonic in 1991. That's likely the big reason why it's there.
Dude, how would you feel if you were watching a video and out of nowhere the narrator insinuated that [thing you love] was actually loved by no one? I LOVE Carnival Night Zone's music--lots of people do! And don't forget that Ice Cap is one of the MJ-associated tracks too (even though it was composed by Brad Buxer), and no one hates Ice Cap Zone.
Fun Fact: Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles is already available for PC.
Just go to Steam and it is one of the available games you can buy for SEGA MEGA DRIVE AND GENESIS CLASSICS, they even have steam workshop support that sport some well known hacks for those old games. Hell here are the links for both the game itself and the collection it is for:
S3&K: store.steampowered.com/app/71162/Sonic_3__Knuckles/
SMDAGC: store.steampowered.com/app/34270/SEGA_Mega_Drive_and_Genesis_Classics/
I agree on Carnival Night, but the Sonic 3 credits theme is a banger.
Stranger in Moscow tune 😍😍
What happened to Sonic & Knuckles?
*Knuckles Chaotix crying in the distance*
also yeah that take on piracy is exactly how I feel on the topic
The PC music was good. Fite me.
Funny how the "crappy"music turned out to be the originals, and now everyone seems to be on board with releasing the game with those songs. Honestly, idk if the MJ music is all that great, but I can't hear anything else in the majority of those levels. I grew up on that music, I love that music, and I don't understand all the Tee Lopes fanfare. His music was ok. But, nothing stuck in my head like the Genesis release of S3&K
At least we have S3C
I was one of the few who's first experience with Sonic 3 was on the PC collection. But I only heard the Carnival Night tracks, cause I COULDN'T GET PAST THAT STUPID BARREL.
But when I did finally get past it, it was after watching some of the Genesis playthrough online, so I had heard the Genesis tracks for Ice Cap first. So I have an affinity for the PC Carnival Night music and for the Genesis Ice Cap.
Feel free to ramble with me.
It's getting rereleased as a part of the sonic origins collection this month!
We’re having Hard Times with Sonic 3 because we created our own Bad Future. Great 😬. Hearing the proto music was a nice surprise, but only Carnival Night’s was polished.
I'd take S3&K on mobile with the PC ost over having no S3&K at all.
Yes, ther'd probably be some backlash, but not that much if SEGA communicated it correctly. Like tell everyone about it using the PC soundtrack instead of the Genesis one, (and the reason why this change had to be made) right there when you announce it. Maybe store the songs as plain files, (like how Undertale does) so if someone wants to mod back the original music, they can? Idk.
And anyways... The Carnival Night PC theme is better than the Genesis one... YES I SAID IT!!!
I 75 percent agree
Aren't you just an original thinker?Just like everybody else when the beta came out.Pro tip: not following the crowd is ok.
You're gonna have fun with sonic origins
Ah I can't believe I missed this! Excellent vid as always, Nick!
They are lost in time because creators feel like, “yo yo yo! I have all this money? I can make and do what i want. Replace old with new”
Not knowing how many people enjoyed creating/playing it.
So what part of the sonic 3 soundtrack did John Maus help with?
Or just have Tee Lopes remix the music. He did some for Mania
I would be happy if sega let the mania team remake the entirety of s3&k in the mania engine and remix the music of the pc collection
and you're calling the retro engine "mania engine"
also apparently the PC collection music is actually the original music for sonic 3, so there is that
The Xbox 360 sega collection had sonic 3 & knuckles as an unlockable. I forget exactly how to do it but I do distinctly remember unlocking it back in the day.
3:25 the weird thing about the Genesis Collection for current consoles not having S3K is that the same collection on steam does…
For the record, my brother's favorite track in the game is carnival night act 2.
I've never been a 100% convinced that licensing was the sole issue for S3&K.
FWIW, personally I'm not sure it isn't intentional. How many more people will buy the Genesis Mini 2 if it ships with S3&K?
It could even be a combination of issues. Sega: "We could easily pay the $XXX they're asking but we'll get more sales if we spread the Sonic collection over two products..." I'm not phased, I have the originals and a bagillion ways to play them AND I never picked up a Genesis Mini anyway, for that reason. As I've said countless times before, on practically any site that allows comments...
I DON'T NEED ANOTHER WAY TO PLAY MEGA DRIVE GAMES! I DO HOWEVER WANT MORE WAYS TO *BUY* MEGA DRIVE GAMES!
Shit they could release them on Steam as add-ons for the Sega Classic collection. Dollar per game? Hell yes
Right now, there's just "other options"
Yo ho, Sonic warriors indeed! =)
P.S. Carnival Night and the Ending Theme kicked arse =p