Great video, and as someone who's firmly on the "Hydro City" side of this debate and never heard anyone say it another way until around 2011, I think the most illuminating part for me was when you said it doesn't matter if it's "right," that name means something to people, it's everything you feel in this zone, and that's why people are so willing to fight for it. Because that's exactly how the way I pronounce Hydrocity feels to ME. It brings me back to being absolutely enamored with this new game in 1994, to feeling that tension and worry when I got dropped into what was clearly a water level, and being absolutely blown away with how wonderful everything about it was. The name was some long word I didn't recognize, so I paused when the title card came up again and asked my dad what it said, and he told me: "Hydro City!" Then told me what the prefix "hydro" meant. I learned language off of this stage! I remember I beat the boss for the first time by playing as Tails while my Mamaw dodged Robotnik as Sonic, and that memory is absolutely precious to me. That's the kind of attachment and reverence and nostalgia that gets drummed up in my subconscious when I think of Hydrocity, and why it's so weird to hear it being said so "wrong"... but that's true for you too, and it just goes to show how important this silly video game level is to both of us. Again, take a bow, Nick, you knocked this one out of the park!
Lifelong Sonic gamer since it first released on Genesis. I tend to steer well clear of the fandom so I had no idea this was debated. I'm no scholar so take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt. Modern English is dubbed a Romance language due to it descending from Rome's influence. The reason people read Hydrocity's name as a single word is because the name itself is a perfect representation of the source material, one which we can intuitively grok but also one we struggle to explain because it hinges on a valid yet uncommon linguistic branch. To me, this is clearly not a compound word ala Icecap, but rather a constructed word with mixed greek & latin components. Those components are not ℎ𝑦𝑑𝑟𝑜-𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑦, they are ℎ𝑦𝑑𝑟-𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑦; ℎ𝑦𝑑𝑟- being the obvious Greek root for water and -𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑦 being a Latin suffix meaning "the quality of". I think what creates the confusion is that the latter component (-𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑦) is rarely found in modern English words. Consider, also. that Hydrocity level design has a vaguely "ancient Roman" look. The Romans built a massive sewer system called the Cloaca Maxima (literally, Greatest Sewer), which is both still partially used today AND has its own Wikipedia page. Now consider the languages Rome officially spoke while its empire was active: first latin, and then greek. Finally, consider how Sonic arrived to the Zone: Knuckles literally dropped him, like one would drop refuse into the sewer. Taking all of this together, from word etymology to architectural inspiration, I believe Hydrocity is properly read as a single word. PS: Mixed root words aren't unheard of. These are known as hybrid words or "internally macaronic" words. Some common-use examples that were invented relatively recently in history: Antacid, automobile, sociopath, television PPS: call the level whatever you want because it's a game and all of this is for fun :D
In the '90s, all of my friends called it Hydrocity so that's what I went with. Didn't realize this was even a debate until recently, but I think Hydro City is correct. However, I still call it Hydrocity for nostalgia's sake.
Nick is the only person who can make a 20 minute long video on something as stupid as hydrocity and keep you laughing throughout. And to top it off, he even validated both sides of the argument. Good stuff
Have you seen Splash Dash or Chaomix’s vids? They all cover stupid shit like this and I love them for it. Also, I’ve always pronounced it Hydrocity simply because that’s how it’s written. And I fully agree with Nick in that I never saw it as a city. Maybe an underwater temple but not a city lol
Loved the conversation and the puns with every -city word 🤣 Gotta love the justifications on each side. That’s what makes debates like this so silly but fun
Ngl I never once heard anyone say Hydrocity (as one word) in my entire life till a few years ago. I think most people would say Hydro City going in blind.
4:24 - 4:32 Fun fact about the katakana used here: ハイドロシティ (Hydro City) is only one character away from ハイベロシティ (High Velocity). You just switch out the ド (do) for a べ (be). I’m not sure if it’s intentional, but it looks like a bit of cheeky wordplay that got lost in translation since “Hydro” and “Velo-“ don’t sound all that alike in English. Japanese has a lot, and I do mean a lot, of puns that get lost when they’re translated into English since they’re so radically different as languages.
That might also be why people like Hydrocity (Hai-drosity) over Hydro City since Hydrocity sounds a lot closer to Velocity. Honestly when you phrase it that way, I think Hydrocity is a much more fitting name than Hydro City. The latter is too...basic.
The place itself can be nameless as well After all its hydrocity ZONE Think of it like mystic cave... Not exactly the name of an actual cave but just a descriptor that in this zone theres is a cave thats mystic
yeah, same. in my head the word was always defined as "the measure of how hydrated something is," like how tenacity is "the measure of how tenacious something is," or how viscosity is "the measure of how viscous something is." it's a word that just makes sense to me, and just because it isn't a "real" word didn't stop people from understanding the made-up word "sandopolis" and considering we've seen zone names like labyrinth, hill top, or carnival night, it feels like it fits the bill as a zone name being self-descriptive, while still not really telling much about the zone itself outside of the primary motif. hydrocity zone has a high level of hydrocity because there's water everywhere. it's just always made sense to me growing up.
It's because "city" comes from French and "-city" comes from Latin, and English is a fake language of morons who haven't invented a way to write "their" native language. On account of not HAVING a native language, just a series of Klingon grunts attempting to sound enough like human speech to be legible when they ask doctors and lawyers to treat them. Doctors and lawyers being people who know quite a bit of Latin, which they use for fun things like remembering more than 2 bones, and setting up a lot of legalese to justify why 500 Million westerners get to take all the chocolate and bananas away from people who have real jobs, but no "democracy", like google adsense funneling food into their gobs.
"they call it mexicocity" I was 1 entire hour laughing of that, that actually sounds like a way of the gringos to see how much we (the whole people from Latin America) look like the stereotype of the Mexicans like "wait you have a high mexicocity" and the other person called pancho with a Mexican hat, a mustache, a poncho, and saying "NACHO TACO TAMALES CARNITAS" with music of the genere "musica banda" in the background, and that made me laugh another hour
I always pronounced it "Hydro City" as a kid, but then I started to like the name "Hydrocity" because it rhymes with "atrocity" and is therefore much more appropriate for a water level in a Sonic game. By that logic, "Hydro Shitty" seems like an even better alternative.
17:13 *Mexicocity Zone Act 1* I love how nonchalantly it rolls off of Nick's tongue after him struggling to pronounce words that end in -city, just the icing on the cake man
The funniest part to me is that growing up Canadian, we call our electricity "hydro" for whatever reason. Because of that, as a young kid I always expected the level to feature both water *and* electricity as obstacles.
As a kid, I always called it Hydro City, but then I got older and for some reason started calling it Hydrocity, like it was one word. Now I can't go back to calling it Hydro City. Hydrocity is just ingrained in my memory now.
This whole issue reminds me of the part in Pirates of the Caribbean 2, where the two pirates are arguing over the pronunciation of the kraken. One argues the term originated from Scandinavian or something and that they pronounced it Cracken, the other said the spelling implied it's pronounced Krayken, after arguing for over a minute the second declares it's a mythological sea monster, I'll call it whatever I want.
Someone has probably already told you in the comments or somewhere, but to add to the conversation: The Japanese katakana used to spell Hydrocity, ハイドロシチィ(ha-i-do-ro-shi-ti, the last two characters count as one sound, that's why it's smaller), uses the character ロ, which is pronounced "ro" (like "row" without the w). Japanese kana, which includes the alphabets if hiragana and katakana, is a very precise phonetic alphabet. Foreign words and names are usually written in katakana as is the case of Hydrocity. They also do not have the "see" sound so they use the character し(hiragana) or シ (katakana) as a stand in, which is pronounced "shi" or "she". From this we can say with certainty that it's pronounced Hydro City. There is also the case of the word hydrogen, which we pronounce Hydro Gen. All that said, I fell into the same reasoning as you when I was a kid, Nick! I have read it as Hydrocity (like velocity) for years until I realized that must be wrong. I still love the way it sounds and the feeling it evokes is a much cooler sound than Hydro City. So like Knuckles said, "It's moot." It's your game and your experience, so it's pronounced whatever way you want! Thanks again for another fun video, Nick!
It is amazing how completely even the divide is. I always read "Hydrocity" as a youngin' and did not once consider "Hydro City" untill I dived into the world of the internet. It is crazy to me how this is a 50-50 divide with each person on either side being set in stone about how they pronounce it. Honestly, I'm not opposed to the idea of the cannon being that none of the characters really know (or care) how it is pernounced and it remaining a mystery till the end of time.
I had no idea that there even was a debate going on, because as a German kid playing it I just accepted that none of the zone names made much sense to me. At least in the GC Megadrive Collection, they didn't bother to translate the names. I think I did recognise Hydro, but at the same time I just brushed over most names 'coz at that point I was used to parts of my games not being localised. Now I just think the velocity pronounciation sounds cooler so i think that's what I'll stick with
I’ve always pronounced it Hydro City, but seeing how passionately you talked about how Hydrocity having meaning has given me a newfound appreciation of the pronunciation and I kinda hope that debate ends in the canoni city being that it’s pronounced both ways. Also I loved all the -city word jokes you made.
All this does is make me think of how Megamind pronounces Metro City as "Metrocity." Its the same thing. (Oh... you actually brought that up in the video)
Fun fact: You call it a "crap-thedral" at 11:20. You'll be glad to know such a thing actually exists. The Crossness Sewage Pumping Station, in southeast London is exactly that; a cathedral for a sewage system. The TIm Traveler has a wonderful video on this, should you wish to learn more about this real life Hydrocity!
Ah yes, Hiderockity Zone. I can't believe we're getting a 20 minute video on a water level, and the string of -city words was top notch. Still, personally, I subscribe to Hydro City, but recognize that Hydrocity (as hydrossity) as a valid answer, even if my word correct just tried to correct it as Hydro City...
I always assumed that it was Hydro City, since every sonic level follows a sort of "adjective+location" naming scheme. I will admit though, hydrocity sounds like a real word, and a pretty cool one.
I'm still team hydrocity. I never once thought it was hydro city until this video. I always thought it had to do with it's watery-ness, it's hydroliciosness, it's hydrocity.
Can’t wait for your review on the IDW 50th issue. I love the Themes of Freedom and Beliefs on the Comic. It feel like this issue was what everything was building up Too.
"Haidoroshiti" is just "Hydro City" with a Japanese accent. Katakana is a writing system meant to portray foreign words in Japanese. Sentences in Japanese do not contain spaces unless the sentence is entirely in Katakana, and even then, spaces are usually portrayed with a dot between the words, not an actual space. Just like Hydro City, Green Hill or "グリーンヒル" (Gurinhiru) doesn't have a space in it in Japanese. *Edit, another thing to note:* Even in the Japanese version of Sonic, the zone names are written in English. It's much more likely that Sega forgot the space just because they're unfamiliar with English, cause it's hard to write in a language you aren't fluent in, and the translators overlooked it since the zone names were already in English. Tldr: They goofed and forgot to add the space, and they've rolled with it ever since.
Sorry to be pedantic here, but the kana ン isn't nu it's n. So グリーンヒル is just "Gurinhiru." Reminder that ン is the only kana without an inherent vowel sound. The sound "nu" would instead be ヌ. Otherwise your points are valid.
Looking at how the word “velocity” is rendered in katakana (べロシティ based on the cover to the racing game “Critical Velocity”) I think the “o” vowel would be preserved regardless of the intended English pronunciation, simply because of the smaller number of vowel sounds in Japanese. I’m not saying Hydro City wasn’t the intended pronunciation, simply that using the katakana isn’t a definitive argument.
But if isn’t ハイドロシティ read as Hy-dross-ity? I keep reading it, and it seems just as vague as Hyrdocity. (EDIT: Ah, it’s because Hy-dross-ity would be pronounce different in an American accent)
I have long followed the idea that the correct answer is "Hydro City." I pronounce it "Hydro City" every single time I say it. However, that will never discount how cool "Hydrocity" sounds. It fits the feel of a quick water level that Hydro City deserves. One has just always made sense to me.
I'll be honest, I never thought of Hydrocity as in Velocity, and it has struck so deep I've changed my ways of the 'Hydro city' and I'm going to use both terms at random whenever I feel like it. Thank you for your amazing work as always. Can't wait for another episode of the Word Apologist. Toot toot, Sonic warrior.
In Spanish we say /'Ee-draw-thee-tee/ or /'Ee-draw-sea-tee/ in Latin America. That's because "hidro" normally functions as a prefix except in make-up words as in "hidrógeno" (Hydrogen). Note that tilde above the "o", it's used to mark a stress and it's pronounced as /Ee-'draw-he-no/. We never say /Ee-'draw-thee-tee/ because of that.
1:02 - 1:38 OK i already learnt that i should let anyone pronounce words in any way they want or else i would descend into madness... also i love how each time you and pup are together leads to a hilarious situation
I love spending my time reading japanese Mang-uh (oops, Main-ga), researching interesting early Bet-uhs (I man Bay-tuhs), and playing Poke-e-mon (uhg, Poke-a-mon) using my main and person favorite Vap-or-e-on (Vay-por-e-on). I also enjoy some Sun-ik (I mean S-on-ik) from time to time.
I love the idea that the developers who thought "Genocide City Zone" would be a good stage name knew enough English to make some weird pun. Also, at 16:12 you wasted an opportunity to say "It doesn't matter who is wrong or who is right."
I literally just ask my dad and my sister to pronounce it and my dad calls it Hydro City, while my sister and I say Hydrocity. I personally prefer Hydrocity because it makes it sound like a water atrocity. Which kinda highlights Sonic's fear of water to me and not wanting to be in this city full of water. Overall this debate is fun
Yuji Naka tweeted that it's indeed Hydro-City, so, case closed! Still, I like the idea of "Hydrocity" as a compound word, but never thought to call it that until the first time I head someone say it on TH-cam.
To be fair, the internet doesn't call a certain image format "jiffs" despite the creator himself stating it's the correct pronunciation. So this is unlikely to make much of a difference to the Internet's opinion.
@@PowerStar004 Yeah no, I understand people have already made up their minds on the matter, despite whatever new information will come our way. I just pointed it out as an interesting thing that definitely weighs in on the argument, but shouldn't force people to accept that as their preferred pronounciation.
Growing up I never trusted the spacing of the letters and just went with hydro city. That O is be enough to have eaten the space. I like the pun. And Sega has done at least one big pun before this. Tails real name. However I am sticking with hydro city
i actually tried to show this word to someone and know what they think Until i forgot that by translating the name you lose the verbal differece between "velocity" and "city", i am an idiot
That doesn't really apply since those words are intended to be together, like you're not saying "mar ble zone" obviously but marble is alrededor a Word. Hydrocity is not, and it's pretty obvious it makes reference of how the zone is an ancient city flooded by water, hydro is related with water
Excellent. This is an outstanding video. So well researched, killer comedy (surely due in part to the subject matter’s inherent comedic value), and *somehow,* this is the first time I’ve seen this issue taken seriously! Bravo, Nick, (it is Nick, right?) bravo. Take a bow.
So something interesting I realized while discussing this a few days ago with someone over on Reddit. Hydrocity isn't the only made up compound name for a stage in Sonic 3&K. There's also *Sandopolis.* Interesting that the two stages that are both made up compound words would both be the names of cities.
16:34 I would totally watch an entire video breaking down how it was done or at the very least just watching the background go up and down like that without stuff in the foreground blocking it
I speak some Japanese! And have also spoken with a native Japanese friend of mine. It's Hydro-City in the sense that Hydrossity would be spelt completely different in Japanese katakana. ハイドロシティ (hai-doh-roh-shi-tii) has that "roh" in it that makes Hyrossity incorrect. Also it's literally just ハイドロ+シティ (Hydro + city). To make Hyrdrossity make sense, it would need to be spelt like ハイドラシティ (hai-do-RAH-shi-tii) (even then, it would be like saying "Hydra-City").
It's also a pun on "high velocity" ハイベロシティ as if you change the べ to a ド. It changes to ハイドロシティ or "hydro city." Funny language humor. But all in all. I say it's Hydro City. At the end of the day, it's a water city that you go fast in. Hence forth the "hydro city" and "high velocity" making "hydrocity" thing.
Oh my word, this is the punniest video I’ve ever seen, and I love it! Couldn’t stop laughing at the Patron read. Great video, I enjoyed seeing this a bit deeper, it was neat to learn the stuff. (Team Hydro City forever!) Unless I’m mistaken, you missed a metropolitan joke there…
I always thought it was a intentional neat double meaning, like it’s literally Hydro City but it was spelt like you could pronounce it like ‘hydrossity’ as a pun for it being the fastest water stage. But I guess there’s no room for subtlety in the Sonic fan base so people take up the pronunciations as if they were freaking political positions.
I've always said "Hydro City" ever since I was a kid. It made more sense to me that way, since these are the underground ruins of what was presumably a city with a lot of water. Regardless of how one says it, it doesn't change the fact that it's the best water level in all of Classic Sonic (and one of the best water levels period).
Since the echidnas built on top of the ancients stuff according to frontiers what if it was specially made for the ancients who were water people best I can tell, or what if it is connected to chaos, what if they built a zone special for chaos to have fun in
I used to think it was “Hydrocity” too, and the idea of it being a pun on hydro and velocity is admittedly cool. But it’s definitely meant to be Hydro City regardless. I just find it really funny that even Sega has acknowledged this whole debate. Seeing Sonic and Tails discuss it and have Knuckles shut them both down is definitely hilarious! It makes a lot more sense to reference than Sanic…
8:05 I'm pretty sure this came from an IT forum where a humiliated user said he went to his first job interview calling SQL "Squall" like the Final Fantasy character instead of "Sequel" and most of the entire thread was patting him on the back, learning from books shows real dedication.
This debate stirred tension between sonic fans for a LONG time. Personally I called it Hydrocity (like velocity...) To this day the name still stands and honestly I don't mind if others call it in a different way. Anywho, I'm really digging the humour in this video and also I like you discuss this matter in a mature but playful manner.
The day this video went up, someone asked Yuji Naka how it's pronounced on twitter. According to his reply (archived and accessible on the Sonic wiki), he pronounces it "Hydro City".
If it was meant to be a long O sound, it should have a space or hyphen or something. I've always seen it as meaning that the level has a lot of water in it. That is, it has a high _hydrocity_ to it. It doesn't look like a city to me at all either. But if Hydro City was the intention, then maybe they just accidentally made the O too big. That O does look quite large in that name...
Oh sorry game apologist I noticed you made a mistake on your title. It’s probably just a typo but it should be titled, “The great Hydro City debate.” Hope this helps! Edit: no joke though this video is mad entertaining and funny
While I do think it's "Hydro City" as this stage is a city of water ways (or sewerage systems) but, yeah just make both cannon. Hell just add to the joke make this place's pronunciation lost to time and, have some in cannon fight over how it's said. (And have everybody else question their sanity over it)
I totally wasn't going to click on this, I was like "this better not be 20 minutes arguing the pronunciation of this word..." but I regret nothing, this is hilarious!
My knowledge of the English language was VERY limited as a kid, so when I came across the name Hydrocity I thought it was a joke about it being a place where drowning was really easy so I thought it was meant to rhyme with atrocity. I think a good compromise would be to rename it to Hydrocity City Zone, since it still somewhat works.
While I expected to this answer, the same can not be said for your stance. I salute another who openly defies a single pseudo-word's convention, just because it feels right. Hydro-city Sonic Warriors!
Some call it 'hydrocity', others call it 'hydro-city'. I call it 'the only water level in Sonic history I don't completely hate'.
Water Palace from Sonic Rush is also pretty good. It’s a little too hard in the original game, but it was pretty darn fun in Generations 3DS.
Aquarium Park from Colors (wii) was good!
Aquatic ruins allowed you to skip the water entirely if you're at least slightly competent at jumping
@@wanderlustwarrior I LOVE Aquarium Park.
@@howlingpig got a point there
"Mexicocity" killed me. Brilliant delivery, sir.
Same here homie.
Same 🤣
"Mexicocidad"
Breaking Badrocity
Mexico + velocity
"What starts off as a joke eventually leads to warfare…"
Me as a die hard Sonic fanboy: "Cowbunga it is!"
This man out here fuckn cows.
You sure your not a tmnt fan?
Ahem! *Booyakasha!*
@@cliffturbo2146 ok
For some reason I thought his line was "It's time to split!" but then I remembered that's Cortez from TimeSplitters.
Great video, and as someone who's firmly on the "Hydro City" side of this debate and never heard anyone say it another way until around 2011, I think the most illuminating part for me was when you said it doesn't matter if it's "right," that name means something to people, it's everything you feel in this zone, and that's why people are so willing to fight for it.
Because that's exactly how the way I pronounce Hydrocity feels to ME. It brings me back to being absolutely enamored with this new game in 1994, to feeling that tension and worry when I got dropped into what was clearly a water level, and being absolutely blown away with how wonderful everything about it was. The name was some long word I didn't recognize, so I paused when the title card came up again and asked my dad what it said, and he told me: "Hydro City!" Then told me what the prefix "hydro" meant. I learned language off of this stage!
I remember I beat the boss for the first time by playing as Tails while my Mamaw dodged Robotnik as Sonic, and that memory is absolutely precious to me.
That's the kind of attachment and reverence and nostalgia that gets drummed up in my subconscious when I think of Hydrocity, and why it's so weird to hear it being said so "wrong"... but that's true for you too, and it just goes to show how important this silly video game level is to both of us.
Again, take a bow, Nick, you knocked this one out of the park!
Lifelong Sonic gamer since it first released on Genesis. I tend to steer well clear of the fandom so I had no idea this was debated. I'm no scholar so take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt.
Modern English is dubbed a Romance language due to it descending from Rome's influence. The reason people read Hydrocity's name as a single word is because the name itself is a perfect representation of the source material, one which we can intuitively grok but also one we struggle to explain because it hinges on a valid yet uncommon linguistic branch.
To me, this is clearly not a compound word ala Icecap, but rather a constructed word with mixed greek & latin components.
Those components are not ℎ𝑦𝑑𝑟𝑜-𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑦, they are ℎ𝑦𝑑𝑟-𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑦; ℎ𝑦𝑑𝑟- being the obvious Greek root for water and -𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑦 being a Latin suffix meaning "the quality of". I think what creates the confusion is that the latter component (-𝑜𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑦) is rarely found in modern English words.
Consider, also. that Hydrocity level design has a vaguely "ancient Roman" look. The Romans built a massive sewer system called the Cloaca Maxima (literally, Greatest Sewer), which is both still partially used today AND has its own Wikipedia page. Now consider the languages Rome officially spoke while its empire was active: first latin, and then greek.
Finally, consider how Sonic arrived to the Zone: Knuckles literally dropped him, like one would drop refuse into the sewer.
Taking all of this together, from word etymology to architectural inspiration, I believe Hydrocity is properly read as a single word.
PS: Mixed root words aren't unheard of. These are known as hybrid words or "internally macaronic" words. Some common-use examples that were invented relatively recently in history: Antacid, automobile, sociopath, television
PPS: call the level whatever you want because it's a game and all of this is for fun :D
I wrote something small
@@qriist I've always been firmly on the Hydro City side of things but damn man, now you've made me really question things...
@@TheCrimsonEmo haha good to know my caterwauling wasn't in vain! ^_^
In the '90s, all of my friends called it Hydrocity so that's what I went with. Didn't realize this was even a debate until recently, but I think Hydro City is correct. However, I still call it Hydrocity for nostalgia's sake.
Nick is the only person who can make a 20 minute long video on something as stupid as hydrocity and keep you laughing throughout. And to top it off, he even validated both sides of the argument. Good stuff
Have you seen Splash Dash or Chaomix’s vids? They all cover stupid shit like this and I love them for it.
Also, I’ve always pronounced it Hydrocity simply because that’s how it’s written. And I fully agree with Nick in that I never saw it as a city. Maybe an underwater temple but not a city lol
You mean Hydro City
SO looking forward to the Mobius video 👀
What about cybershell tho
Loved the conversation and the puns with every -city word 🤣 Gotta love the justifications on each side. That’s what makes debates like this so silly but fun
I almost rofl from all the "city" words and his avatar's expressions
I thought we were talking about -ocity words.
Ngl I never once heard anyone say Hydrocity (as one word) in my entire life till a few years ago. I think most people would say Hydro City going in blind.
Hell I didn’t. I always said it as one word
Hydro city probably makes more sense tho
I first heard it literally in the last week...
I don't doubt a lot of people did pronounce it as 1 word as a kid but I think a lot more people started to claim they did to be part of the in-joke.
I didn't
I also only heared it a few years ago, 2016 sonic hacking contest i think it was
4:24 - 4:32
Fun fact about the katakana used here: ハイドロシティ (Hydro City) is only one character away from ハイベロシティ (High Velocity). You just switch out the ド (do) for a べ (be).
I’m not sure if it’s intentional, but it looks like a bit of cheeky wordplay that got lost in translation since “Hydro” and “Velo-“ don’t sound all that alike in English. Japanese has a lot, and I do mean a lot, of puns that get lost when they’re translated into English since they’re so radically different as languages.
That might be why they called it Hydro City Zone, even though it's not really a city.
This is the canon now
That might also be why people like Hydrocity (Hai-drosity) over Hydro City since Hydrocity sounds a lot closer to Velocity. Honestly when you phrase it that way, I think Hydrocity is a much more fitting name than Hydro City. The latter is too...basic.
Inserting
thats good enough proof to me that its hydrocity!
Hydro City debate be looking a lot more like Hydro Atrocity debate right now
A-tro City
* runs out of goodwill rotfl *
or hydro atro-city
You referenced Megamind and acknowledged the similarity between the Metrocity debate and the Hydrocity debate. A true man of culture.
“Hydrocity”, as one word, feels like another word for “wetness”, in the same way “velocity” means “speed”. Hydro City feels more like a place.
what about terminal velocity
thats not a descriptor but its a valid zone name
Velocity doesn’t necessarily mean speed. They’re different
The place itself can be nameless as well
After all its hydrocity ZONE
Think of it like mystic cave... Not exactly the name of an actual cave but just a descriptor that in this zone theres is a cave thats mystic
yeah, same. in my head the word was always defined as "the measure of how hydrated something is," like how tenacity is "the measure of how tenacious something is," or how viscosity is "the measure of how viscous something is." it's a word that just makes sense to me, and just because it isn't a "real" word didn't stop people from understanding the made-up word "sandopolis"
and considering we've seen zone names like labyrinth, hill top, or carnival night, it feels like it fits the bill as a zone name being self-descriptive, while still not really telling much about the zone itself outside of the primary motif. hydrocity zone has a high level of hydrocity because there's water everywhere. it's just always made sense to me growing up.
It's because "city" comes from French and "-city" comes from Latin, and English is a fake language of morons who haven't invented a way to write "their" native language.
On account of not HAVING a native language, just a series of Klingon grunts attempting to sound enough like human speech to be legible when they ask doctors and lawyers to treat them. Doctors and lawyers being people who know quite a bit of Latin, which they use for fun things like remembering more than 2 bones, and setting up a lot of legalese to justify why 500 Million westerners get to take all the chocolate and bananas away from people who have real jobs, but no "democracy", like google adsense funneling food into their gobs.
"they call it mexicocity" I was 1 entire hour laughing of that, that actually sounds like a way of the gringos to see how much we (the whole people from Latin America) look like the stereotype of the Mexicans like "wait you have a high mexicocity" and the other person called pancho with a Mexican hat, a mustache, a poncho, and saying "NACHO TACO TAMALES CARNITAS" with music of the genere "musica banda" in the background, and that made me laugh another hour
as a gringo, fair enough
I always pronounced it "Hydro City" as a kid, but then I started to like the name "Hydrocity" because it rhymes with "atrocity" and is therefore much more appropriate for a water level in a Sonic game. By that logic, "Hydro Shitty" seems like an even better alternative.
Which is ironic, considering Hydrocity Zone is a shining example of a water level in a Sonic game done _right._
@@CoralCopperHead A level that contains the genesis-era drowning music is automatically awful, sorry, I don't make the rules.
@@Sylocat I must concede, it's literally the only good water level from the Genesis, so the instant "WATER = HATE" response is justified.
I always read it as Hydro-Atrocity, or Hydrocity as well. My logic was that this was the consequence of Robotnik's activities there.
Ahem atro-city
17:13
*Mexicocity Zone Act 1*
I love how nonchalantly it rolls off of Nick's tongue after him struggling to pronounce words that end in -city, just the icing on the cake man
The funniest part to me is that growing up Canadian, we call our electricity "hydro" for whatever reason. Because of that, as a young kid I always expected the level to feature both water *and* electricity as obstacles.
Because much of it comes from hydroelectric dams (not "hydro electric")
💪🏿💪🏿 repping the mapple leaf
@@julien2983 It's still weird when you get your power from a Thorium plant like a good chunk of N.B. does.
don't you mean Electri City
I’ve never heard that as a Canadian
Gonna be honest, I've never heard anyone call it anything besides Hydro City
Allow us to introduce ourselves
@@chaosarcana no please, I wish for my ears to remain pure
@@SXR123_YT hydros-ity
@@leonglitch my ears, they've been tainted.
@@SXR123_YT I was trying to find a middle ground between the 2 pronunciations
As a kid, I always called it Hydro City, but then I got older and for some reason started calling it Hydrocity, like it was one word. Now I can't go back to calling it Hydro City. Hydrocity is just ingrained in my memory now.
th-cam.com/video/JUHVzJVZzlU/w-d-xo.html
hydrossity is not a word
This whole issue reminds me of the part in Pirates of the Caribbean 2, where the two pirates are arguing over the pronunciation of the kraken. One argues the term originated from Scandinavian or something and that they pronounced it Cracken, the other said the spelling implied it's pronounced Krayken, after arguing for over a minute the second declares it's a mythological sea monster, I'll call it whatever I want.
"I guess that's a point towards the sewer system" was the best line of the video
Someone has probably already told you in the comments or somewhere, but to add to the conversation:
The Japanese katakana used to spell Hydrocity, ハイドロシチィ(ha-i-do-ro-shi-ti, the last two characters count as one sound, that's why it's smaller), uses the character ロ, which is pronounced "ro" (like "row" without the w). Japanese kana, which includes the alphabets if hiragana and katakana, is a very precise phonetic alphabet. Foreign words and names are usually written in katakana as is the case of Hydrocity. They also do not have the "see" sound so they use the character し(hiragana) or シ (katakana) as a stand in, which is pronounced "shi" or "she". From this we can say with certainty that it's pronounced Hydro City. There is also the case of the word hydrogen, which we pronounce Hydro Gen.
All that said, I fell into the same reasoning as you when I was a kid, Nick! I have read it as Hydrocity (like velocity) for years until I realized that must be wrong. I still love the way it sounds and the feeling it evokes is a much cooler sound than Hydro City. So like Knuckles said, "It's moot." It's your game and your experience, so it's pronounced whatever way you want!
Thanks again for another fun video, Nick!
Man, starting a new account is rough. Dealing with shadow blocking is weak. Hope you get to see this and it's helpful, Nick!
16:34 I agree. That water effect is awesome. I've admired it ever since I was a kid.
once more
@@cay7809 Yep. What's the score again? 7 to 1?
@@Sovic91 seems like it
It is amazing how completely even the divide is. I always read "Hydrocity" as a youngin' and did not once consider "Hydro City" untill I dived into the world of the internet. It is crazy to me how this is a 50-50 divide with each person on either side being set in stone about how they pronounce it. Honestly, I'm not opposed to the idea of the cannon being that none of the characters really know (or care) how it is pernounced and it remaining a mystery till the end of time.
I had no idea that there even was a debate going on, because as a German kid playing it I just accepted that none of the zone names made much sense to me. At least in the GC Megadrive Collection, they didn't bother to translate the names. I think I did recognise Hydro, but at the same time I just brushed over most names 'coz at that point I was used to parts of my games not being localised. Now I just think the velocity pronounciation sounds cooler so i think that's what I'll stick with
I’ve always pronounced it Hydro City, but seeing how passionately you talked about how Hydrocity having meaning has given me a newfound appreciation of the pronunciation and I kinda hope that debate ends in the canoni city being that it’s pronounced both ways. Also I loved all the -city word jokes you made.
Today I learned more about English language as a foreign. Thank you very much for this Opa city of video.
Heyy uhh....
All this does is make me think of how Megamind pronounces Metro City as "Metrocity." Its the same thing.
(Oh... you actually brought that up in the video)
Always saw it as Hydro City ever since I first encountered the name, as a kid. But, at this point.
"IT DOESN'T MATTER, NOW WHAT HAPPENS!!!"
"WE WILL NEVER, GIVE UP THE FIGHT!!"
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHOOOOOO IS WRONG OR WHO IS RIGHT!
"That's where I shit, sonic. Stop trying to name it."
HYDRO CITY just without a space but it could be Hydrocity the best name
Fun fact: You call it a "crap-thedral" at 11:20. You'll be glad to know such a thing actually exists. The Crossness Sewage Pumping Station, in southeast London is exactly that; a cathedral for a sewage system. The TIm Traveler has a wonderful video on this, should you wish to learn more about this real life Hydrocity!
Thanks Nick, now I can never unthink the fact that knuckles flushed Sonic and Tails down the tur-let 🚽
My favourite zone.
Doesn't matter how the name sounds, what matters is how that music sounds, act 2 especially.
Beautiful.
🎶
Ah yes, Hiderockity Zone. I can't believe we're getting a 20 minute video on a water level, and the string of -city words was top notch. Still, personally, I subscribe to Hydro City, but recognize that Hydrocity (as hydrossity) as a valid answer, even if my word correct just tried to correct it as Hydro City...
Is hiderockity a scott the woz reference
@@melo-7904 Yes, yes it is.
@@parnash nice
@@melo-7904 CUT!
Your line was "I understood that reference."
*Boasting about your memetics, Take 28: ACTION!*
‘hydrocity’ just rolls off the tongue easier than ‘hydro city’ does.
I always assumed that it was Hydro City, since every sonic level follows a sort of "adjective+location" naming scheme. I will admit though, hydrocity sounds like a real word, and a pretty cool one.
Marble zone, Sandopolis zone
@@techmark3665i mean sandopolis means sand city
@@MilkEnjoyer2It's still one word. You don't say "Sando Polis."
I'm still team hydrocity. I never once thought it was hydro city until this video. I always thought it had to do with it's watery-ness, it's hydroliciosness, it's hydrocity.
Can’t wait for your review on the IDW 50th issue. I love the Themes of Freedom and Beliefs on the Comic. It feel like this issue was what everything was building up Too.
Me neither. I particularly like Tails and Kit's interactions. They're going pretty much exactly how I'd hoped.
Atrocity: Putting Sonic underwater.
Hydrocity: Putting Sonic underwater then chasing him with crushing death wall.
"Haidoroshiti" is just "Hydro City" with a Japanese accent. Katakana is a writing system meant to portray foreign words in Japanese. Sentences in Japanese do not contain spaces unless the sentence is entirely in Katakana, and even then, spaces are usually portrayed with a dot between the words, not an actual space. Just like Hydro City, Green Hill or "グリーンヒル" (Gurinhiru) doesn't have a space in it in Japanese.
*Edit, another thing to note:* Even in the Japanese version of Sonic, the zone names are written in English. It's much more likely that Sega forgot the space just because they're unfamiliar with English, cause it's hard to write in a language you aren't fluent in, and the translators overlooked it since the zone names were already in English.
Tldr: They goofed and forgot to add the space, and they've rolled with it ever since.
That's exactly what I thought too.
Sorry to be pedantic here, but the kana ン isn't nu it's n. So グリーンヒル is just "Gurinhiru." Reminder that ン is the only kana without an inherent vowel sound. The sound "nu" would instead be ヌ.
Otherwise your points are valid.
16bit typo by non english speakers in an age before download patches and internet. seems rather obvious.
Looking at how the word “velocity” is rendered in katakana (べロシティ based on the cover to the racing game “Critical Velocity”) I think the “o” vowel would be preserved regardless of the intended English pronunciation, simply because of the smaller number of vowel sounds in Japanese.
I’m not saying Hydro City wasn’t the intended pronunciation, simply that using the katakana isn’t a definitive argument.
But if isn’t ハイドロシティ read as Hy-dross-ity? I keep reading it, and it seems just as vague as Hyrdocity. (EDIT: Ah, it’s because Hy-dross-ity would be pronounce different in an American accent)
I have long followed the idea that the correct answer is "Hydro City." I pronounce it "Hydro City" every single time I say it. However, that will never discount how cool "Hydrocity" sounds. It fits the feel of a quick water level that Hydro City deserves. One has just always made sense to me.
I'll be honest, I never thought of Hydrocity as in Velocity, and it has struck so deep I've changed my ways of the 'Hydro city' and I'm going to use both terms at random whenever I feel like it. Thank you for your amazing work as always. Can't wait for another episode of the Word Apologist.
Toot toot, Sonic warrior.
In Spanish we say /'Ee-draw-thee-tee/ or /'Ee-draw-sea-tee/ in Latin America. That's because "hidro" normally functions as a prefix except in make-up words as in "hidrógeno" (Hydrogen). Note that tilde above the "o", it's used to mark a stress and it's pronounced as /Ee-'draw-he-no/. We never say /Ee-'draw-thee-tee/ because of that.
1:02 - 1:38 OK i already learnt that i should let anyone pronounce words in any way they want or else i would descend into madness...
also i love how each time you and pup are together leads to a hilarious situation
I love spending my time reading japanese Mang-uh (oops, Main-ga), researching interesting early Bet-uhs (I man Bay-tuhs), and playing Poke-e-mon (uhg, Poke-a-mon) using my main and person favorite Vap-or-e-on (Vay-por-e-on). I also enjoy some Sun-ik (I mean S-on-ik) from time to time.
@@greatergam2493 "S-On-Ik?" I would've written that as "Saw-Nikk," but hey.
I love the idea that the developers who thought "Genocide City Zone" would be a good stage name knew enough English to make some weird pun.
Also, at 16:12 you wasted an opportunity to say "It doesn't matter who is wrong or who is right."
You mean "Genocidecity."
I just don't understand why Hydrocity can't simply be two things at once. To me it's both a Hydro City AND wordplay on Velocity.
I literally just ask my dad and my sister to pronounce it and my dad calls it Hydro City, while my sister and I say Hydrocity. I personally prefer Hydrocity because it makes it sound like a water atrocity. Which kinda highlights Sonic's fear of water to me and not wanting to be in this city full of water. Overall this debate is fun
I don't care what you think! to me it'll always be Hydrocity, not Hydrocity
Yuji Naka tweeted that it's indeed Hydro-City, so, case closed!
Still, I like the idea of "Hydrocity" as a compound word, but never thought to call it that until the first time I head someone say it on TH-cam.
To be fair, the internet doesn't call a certain image format "jiffs" despite the creator himself stating it's the correct pronunciation. So this is unlikely to make much of a difference to the Internet's opinion.
Nah it's hydrocity.
@@PowerStar004 Yeah no, I understand people have already made up their minds on the matter, despite whatever new information will come our way. I just pointed it out as an interesting thing that definitely weighs in on the argument, but shouldn't force people to accept that as their preferred pronounciation.
Growing up I never trusted the spacing of the letters and just went with hydro city. That O is be enough to have eaten the space.
I like the pun. And Sega has done at least one big pun before this. Tails real name. However I am sticking with hydro city
But 'miles per hour' actually mean something, unlike 'hydrocity'
@@TotalWannabe "Hydrocity" literally means "Water City" though?
@@lamenwatch1877 if you pronounce it as Hydro City - yes, it makes sense. But it's not a pun tho
@@TotalWannabe Oh, I think I misunderstood your comment.
Toilet Town. That’s such an amazing name for a Sonic Level. You gotta love it.
I asked a few people who never played Sonic 3 and the most common answer I got was “Hydro City”
i actually tried to show this word to someone and know what they think
Until i forgot that by translating the name you lose the verbal differece between "velocity" and "city", i am an idiot
It’s like how megamind pronounces metro city as “metrossity”
“There’s only person I know who pronounces it ‘Metrossity’.”
@@_mango_ you’ll stay out of hytrossity
bruh watch the video all the way through first before commenting
Yeah I like that
THIS
Sonic: It's Hidro City.
Tails: I'm pretty sure is Hidrocity.
Knuckles: Are you talking about my toilet?
I always liked to say IT as hydro City because its an old city full of water
Its not a city its a temple
@@gatewaybois i Dont think its a tempel because it IS so massive and its full of water
@@nostalgiagamer9452 that doesn’t make any sense labriynth zone is basically the same thing but you would probably agree that its a temple
@@gatewaybois i like to think its a labyrinth and that's why its so big
The problem with “Hydro City” is that if you take most other one word zones you end up with things like “Laby rinth” and “Studio polis”.
That doesn't really apply since those words are intended to be together, like you're not saying "mar ble zone" obviously but marble is alrededor a Word.
Hydrocity is not, and it's pretty obvious it makes reference of how the zone is an ancient city flooded by water, hydro is related with water
My inevitable collab with Game Apologist grows closer by the day.
Also, I’m sorry for being the only objectively correct Sonic fan, Nick. I know that intimidates you. 🗿
🗿
This man somehow made a 20 minute video on a word debate and was still highly entertaining
i asked my friend what Hydrocity looked like and he said Hydro City LOL
I've always pronounced it "Hydrocity" as one words because I had assumed it's the name of the location rather than a description of it.
In Brazil everyone refers to it as "hidrociti". When going back to English, it just makes sense to call it "hydroCIty" instead of "hyDROcity"
Excellent. This is an outstanding video. So well researched, killer comedy (surely due in part to the subject matter’s inherent comedic value), and *somehow,* this is the first time I’ve seen this issue taken seriously! Bravo, Nick, (it is Nick, right?) bravo. Take a bow.
Hydrocity just makes the zone sound cooler.
I can't remember if you said this in the video or not, but you handled this topic with great Perspica City.
You’ve peaked… and this is your greatest video. I love it
yujii confirmed it was Hydro-City
So something interesting I realized while discussing this a few days ago with someone over on Reddit. Hydrocity isn't the only made up compound name for a stage in Sonic 3&K. There's also *Sandopolis.* Interesting that the two stages that are both made up compound words would both be the names of cities.
And don't forget Casinopolis from Sonic Adventure!
"Sand-O-Polis"
16:34
I would totally watch an entire video breaking down how it was done or at the very least just watching the background go up and down like that without stuff in the foreground blocking it
I speak some Japanese! And have also spoken with a native Japanese friend of mine. It's Hydro-City in the sense that Hydrossity would be spelt completely different in Japanese katakana. ハイドロシティ (hai-doh-roh-shi-tii) has that "roh" in it that makes Hyrossity incorrect. Also it's literally just ハイドロ+シティ (Hydro + city). To make Hyrdrossity make sense, it would need to be spelt like ハイドラシティ (hai-do-RAH-shi-tii) (even then, it would be like saying "Hydra-City").
It's also a pun on "high velocity" ハイベロシティ as if you change the べ to a ド. It changes to ハイドロシティ or "hydro city." Funny language humor.
But all in all. I say it's Hydro City. At the end of the day, it's a water city that you go fast in.
Hence forth the "hydro city" and "high velocity" making "hydrocity" thing.
A hydro atrocity in full velocity, a sunken in sorrow city, a bended reality.
Oh my word, this is the punniest video I’ve ever seen, and I love it! Couldn’t stop laughing at the Patron read. Great video, I enjoyed seeing this a bit deeper, it was neat to learn the stuff. (Team Hydro City forever!)
Unless I’m mistaken, you missed a metropolitan joke there…
I recently discovered the musical song called "I’ve heard it both ways" and after watching this video, I now have perfect association.
I always thought it was a intentional neat double meaning, like it’s literally Hydro City but it was spelt like you could pronounce it like ‘hydrossity’ as a pun for it being the fastest water stage.
But I guess there’s no room for subtlety in the Sonic fan base so people take up the pronunciations as if they were freaking political positions.
the hydro city side are super defensive about it for no fucking reason
@@yurifairy2969 "No fucking reason," also known as "Being a person."
...I'm sorry if I sounded like a jerk, I'm agreeing with you.
Yuji Naka has confirmed the name.
It’s HydroCity.
I've always said "Hydro City" ever since I was a kid. It made more sense to me that way, since these are the underground ruins of what was presumably a city with a lot of water. Regardless of how one says it, it doesn't change the fact that it's the best water level in all of Classic Sonic (and one of the best water levels period).
Same
Since the echidnas built on top of the ancients stuff according to frontiers what if it was specially made for the ancients who were water people best I can tell, or what if it is connected to chaos, what if they built a zone special for chaos to have fun in
I used to think it was “Hydrocity” too, and the idea of it being a pun on hydro and velocity is admittedly cool. But it’s definitely meant to be Hydro City regardless. I just find it really funny that even Sega has acknowledged this whole debate. Seeing Sonic and Tails discuss it and have Knuckles shut them both down is definitely hilarious!
It makes a lot more sense to reference than Sanic…
8:05 I'm pretty sure this came from an IT forum where a humiliated user said he went to his first job interview calling SQL "Squall" like the Final Fantasy character instead of "Sequel" and most of the entire thread was patting him on the back, learning from books shows real dedication.
This debate stirred tension between sonic fans for a LONG time. Personally I called it Hydrocity (like velocity...) To this day the name still stands and honestly I don't mind if others call it in a different way. Anywho, I'm really digging the humour in this video and also I like you discuss this matter in a mature but playful manner.
15:51 is that BATMAN!
Mystery solved...
It's pronounced Toilet Town!!!
The day this video went up, someone asked Yuji Naka how it's pronounced on twitter. According to his reply (archived and accessible on the Sonic wiki), he pronounces it "Hydro City".
The war for Hydrussy lives on! Also 9:47 had me wheezing lmao
I call it hydrocity instead of hydro city. But this is all just a theory, A GAME THEORY!
If it was meant to be a long O sound, it should have a space or hyphen or something.
I've always seen it as meaning that the level has a lot of water in it. That is, it has a high _hydrocity_ to it. It doesn't look like a city to me at all either.
But if Hydro City was the intention, then maybe they just accidentally made the O too big. That O does look quite large in that name...
Mania doesn’t have the space either
Yuji Naka has said its pronounced Hydro-city so game over for hydroscity camp
Oh sorry game apologist I noticed you made a mistake on your title. It’s probably just a typo but it should be titled, “The great Hydro City debate.” Hope this helps!
Edit: no joke though this video is mad entertaining and funny
At 16:25 I saw another water slide with a yellow ring in the dark area for just a few frames, and thought it was a giant Metal Sonic.
While I do think it's "Hydro City" as this stage is a city of water ways (or sewerage systems) but, yeah just make both cannon. Hell just add to the joke make this place's pronunciation lost to time and, have some in cannon fight over how it's said. (And have everybody else question their sanity over it)
there is a fight between tails and sonic in the comics actually
@@raphaelhenker8771 I know it's literally in this video (unless you're talking about a different time they fought about this place's name).
I totally wasn't going to click on this, I was like "this better not be 20 minutes arguing the pronunciation of this word..." but I regret nothing, this is hilarious!
The whole bit with the "city" sounding words was excellent. I love fighting this fight for Hydrocity - definitely the better name.
I feel like if the main villain can be both "Robotnik" and "Eggman" then we can have Hydrocity AND Hydro City.
I think megamind calls metro city like that because of the word "Atrocity" think about it for a moment
Edit: oh i'm sorry, Atro city
My knowledge of the English language was VERY limited as a kid, so when I came across the name Hydrocity I thought it was a joke about it being a place where drowning was really easy so I thought it was meant to rhyme with atrocity.
I think a good compromise would be to rename it to Hydrocity City Zone, since it still somewhat works.
An underwater city where you reach high velocity. Hydrocity. A play on words.
Metroman: ITS PRONOUNED HYRDO CITY
How the hell do you make a 20 min long video from this topic. It's Hydro City, end of debate. Fight Me
Time and place?
Hydrocity
I love how every word with city in it gets said correctly but then gets said how hydrocity gets said "hydro-city" love that detail.
While I expected to this answer, the same can not be said for your stance. I salute another who openly defies a single pseudo-word's convention, just because it feels right. Hydro-city Sonic Warriors!
It is Hydrocity, but my heart still says Hydrocity