LOL Yes i bought a Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas One last year from Argos and the girl behind the counter Read out the description to me to confirm what i was picking up! She immediately latched onto the Thrustmaster part of the name and started laughing saying she had never sold a Thrustmaster before and hoped i enjoyed my item as it sounded like a lot of fun to own!
"Hopefully it'll come out in 2021..." Nope.. it didn't. :D Matter of fact, I had no idea this was such a touchy subject. Been finding some weird discussion threads about the VKB-throttle that went very bad, very quickly for some reason... Given the fact that they promised an entry level / ~$200 option, I'd be very interested in the VKB. I mean... my heart says VIRPIL of course, but my bank account seems to disagree. Plus I mostly fly WW2 era stuff where you don't really need the insane amount of controls that the VIRPIL offers.
Yeah it didn't but I know its close, I just don't want to make any other guesses to avoid any other touchyness. So yeah they'll have one that they say is going to be around $250. They also recently released a module called the THQ that has several small throttles on it, well they offer a module that connects two of those throttles and is made for WWII warbirds. I recommend checking out their site, its pretty cheap.
Using Warthog throttle with CM2 base and Mongoos CM2 grip - awesome combo. Even just changing the the base and using Warthog stick initially made a total difference but changing the stick, with all the additional functions, made it into a really formidable combo.
MSFS 2020 has made Thrustmaster complacent because demand has far exceeded supply, so Thrustmaster can sell as much as they can produce without having to innovate.
They were complacent far before that. I don't know if its because they are one of the two "mainstream" options or what, but you are also totally right, the high demand has allowed them to totally stagnate. Take the Winwing Orion vs Warthog Throttle, the Orion absolutely dominates the WH, because the WH is 10+ years old now, and hasn't been updated among other reasons.
I'd have put the Thrustmaster Warthog as an expensive mid-grade HOTAS, not High End, but I'd have to acknowledge that that is based on prejudice from owning a Cougar and not from any actual experience with the Warthog and comments I've read elsewhere similar to the ones you made at the beginning of this video about the Warthog. Like the Cougar, the Warthog seems to be a HOTAS for people that love to mod their gear rather than fly with it, as you can't really fly long term with the Warthog without first making a number of modifications to it to improve it and, based on a quick scan of pricing, possibly spending as much to improve the HOTAS as you spent to buy it in the first place.
Man, first quarter almost throgh, and VKB' throttle still not availabe, nor is there an ETA... Think I'm going for the WinWing... Although I'm not sure if I'm going to use it much. Having is better than Wanting ;)
The force sensing base from Real Simulator is by far the best I've ever used. It is called the R3 FSSB Lighting. I've been through 3 warthogs and the VKB Gunfighter MK III. The Real Sim stick (I have their SGRH viper grip also - one piece resin with five ways on most switches and a rotary under the trim hat to enable 8 profiles on the fly) blows them out of the water. Extremely precise and able the handle all the abuse my BFM can throw at it.
Good stuff, thanks for this breakdown. A small suggestion: I would highly recommend checking your volume levels. Music is very loud in the beginning of videos and it doesn't blend well with the volume of your voice. The mix is quite jarring and has made me auto-skip a few of your videos because it is so loud. Otherwise, great content. Keep it up!
quick question. If I buy the warthog HOTAS could I fly other planes like the f18 just as well? Looking to buy a hotas setup and don't know much. Want to buy Virpil but over 1k is kinda expensive.
I love the Virpil Mongoose base. I’ve got TM Warthog stick and throttle TM Hornet Stick Virpil Mongoose CM2 with a 150mm extension. (Also have the curved Virpil 200mm but it’s too long of a throw to comfortably use in my sitting position) VIRPIL F-14 stick The Virpil Mongoose has taken over as my primary base for everything besides the F-16. (I use the TM base as a sidestick). I want the WinWing Orion 2 in the F-16 config and the Taurus in the F-18. I’m so close to pulling the trigger on the Orion 2 F-16. Just can’t decide if I want the F-16 or if I should save some money over the Taurus later on and buy the Orion 2 F-18 and then get the F-16 grip later (along with another Orion 2 later on so I don’t have to deal with swapping out the handles since the F-16 rail is a pain). Also eyeing the Orion 2 base with the soon to be released pressure activation add on (so it functions just like a real F-16 stick)
@@FalconsLedge Yep. Just ordered the Orion 2 F-18. Figured I could always order the Taurus w/o the grips along with the F-16 grip and put the F18 on the Taurus and convert the Orion 2 into a F-16 throttle.
The TM is metal except in the areas it needs (inside). I also searched all over looking for spare parts to no avail. TM wanted me to buy a completely new stick. I have since gone with Virpil, and loving every minute.
Yep absolutely true, and having a metal grip is a bit of a gimmick honestly. I've used metal sticks and both cheap and nice plastic ones. Honestly I'd rather have my kosmosima grip over the warthog stick
@@FalconsLedge I went with the Virpil Constellation Alpha after I received the WARBRD base the quality was so impressive. Going to be ordering the Control Panel #2 next week.
Man, great videos, may I ask you to also check for rudder twist? It is shame that most if not all high end sticks doesn't have rudder twist, as default or as option.
I am looking at purchasing a F-16 Hotas. I am not sure if I should buy the A10 stick and mount or the F16 stick and the magnetic mount. Is there any difference in the A10 and F16 sticks? Is there any difference in the warthog mount vs the magnetic mount or the way it moves. Any help would be awesome.
To say that I was an avid falcon 4.0 guy would probably be a lie, but I owned it and spent a good number of hours getting shot down and not properly learning the systems ;)
Yes ...very nice reviews there. I've a problem that hasn't really been addressed anywhere yet::::::do you know how to or know of x52 Pro profile set-ups and configuring other than the standard utility that loads from the logitech website into windows. It's been a while since I had a 15pin Thrustmaster Hotas and this looks a bit more involved Thanks in advance if yo know where the confusion lies...
Great vid! I personally would rank winwing no1 because metal just feels way more solid than plastic that Virpil is using. Also, the longer throw of the throttle makes is much easier for small adjustments, this is not offered by any other brands. Besides, winwing is going to offer more options to the grips (like the already available airbus grip, and f16 throttle handle & grip that are still in development). Exchangeable throttle handle is also unique atm. Perhaps this year realsimulator can be mentioned? They got the new f35 hotas, but the main point is that the force sensing base is really one of its kind.
@@TheLukemcdaniel I would certainly agree that it is overpriced. I think its worth probably in the neighborhood of $350. I would actually love to see TM introduce a new high end stick with all metal construction, and then offer a new mid range version of the warthog that is basically the same with a few tweaks to improve some of the problems such as stiction, but the grip what not would be made of plastic, and really try to work both the high end and mid range markets.
Hey, I have a story to tell about Thrustmaster T16km. A nightmare story. I’d like to tell it to you so that you can share it with other consumers. I could just tell it in the comments but I prefer it YOU reported on the story in your channel. :)
I did one near the end of 2021.. pretty much goes like this: mid range - buy gladiator NXT EVO, two if you need a throttle. Warthog range: don't buy Warthog, it's outdated, buy winwing Orion instead. High end: you really can't go wrong, but if you ask what my favorite setup would be - VKB Gunfighter mk.iii, your choice of grip, and a Virpil cm3 throttle, Orion 2 is a close second. For pedals: mfg Crosswinds.
Stick extensions help with precision. It's the same basic concept between accuracy between game pads and joysticks. Bigger movement range results in more precision.
Couple up options: Virpil and Winwing offer helicopter collectives, combine that with a good stick, my recommendations would be vkb gunfighter, extension and mcg grip preferably ultimate, alternatively the Virpil mongoosT50 cm2 base with extension and either the mongoosT50 grip or possibly the constellation alpha, deepening on your preferences.
@@FalconsLedge Thank you for your response, I was thinking about the winwing CGRIP-KA50&T3-BASE&EXTENSION2&MT3 chair mount, would the joystick JGRIP-3xx&J1+BPJ1 be a good match? Not sure what you meant by vkb and mcg ?
@@andrew194854 so the VKB gunfighter with mcg ultimate would be the cyclic, the winwing item you ordered would be the collective, and as far as I understand, it's a good one. The mechanism is the same as the Orion.
Just to give my two cents worth, I don't think you gave the WinWing it's due recognition. I am currently in the market to buy either the WinWing or Verpil and from what I have seen, the WinWing has a host of advantages over the Verpil IMHO. And just for flavor, WW is a commercial flight simulation provider, not just a joystick manufacture. 1st off, Verpil uses a single cam system, which is nice as far as smooth operation but the WW duel cam setup is a lot more realistic and precise. Meaning, in the flight stick, the verpil has the same pressure on single cams to move the stick all the way to its boundaries where the WW increases in resistance using duel cams as you move it further from center. This gives you a better ability to micro use the throw for things like refueling and precise flying. It also provides a much smoother return to center. The total throttle throw for the WW is almost double that of the verpil with a fulcrum throw that is double. This provides much more precise throttle response where you can actually achieve 1 kt throttle changes. Don't get me wrong, the verpil is a good setup far superior to Thrustmaster. But if you look at the bare bones of the Verpil gimbal next to the WW, WW took it to the next level. Not to mention they also provide the flight panels for their setup as well. Another nice addition is all of their flight sticks are machined aluminum. Not plastic and they have the ability with their software to change your different hats to an actual axis. Thats pretty important if you fly DCS. I just thought you might like to re-evaluate the WW for yourself. Its really a next level system.
I like the winwing system, they are great and I look forward to getting more time with them. Virpil does offer a dual cam solution in the WarBRD gimbal. What it did not offer that winwing and VKB offer is a dry clutch. When it comes to single and dual cam, there are pros and cons to both, it ends up being a bit of a toss up in the end. We'll see how winwing does in 2021
@@FalconsLedge I am pretty sure I am going with the WW. I will let you know how it works out. I have watched a few videos from Grim Reapers on the WW as well as a lot of comparison videos. But nothing is better than having them in your had to try yourself. I will be selling my HOTAS system. I already did the gimbal upgrades with sanding and grease. It works a lot better but that bang to center just drives me crazy. Cheers
Actually HOSAS vs HOTAS is not "slightly" more advantage. It's much more than "slightly". Throttle is very ineffective in space combat because of Newtonian translations and buttons are way more ineffective than stick.
I'll go over this in a later video, but because the thruster axis are really secondary movements, and there are hotas with analog sticks, it is slightly. It's still better, but only slightly.
@@horashio1593 my system specs are in the description, but I'm still running a 1080. I desperately want a 3000 series card but don't have the capability of getting one right now.
@@FalconsLedge oh ok nice, the 3060 is a bit more underpowered than I would have liked. But before this I had a rx 460. So honestly I'm glad I got anything for a reasonable price! Also with the 30 series cards I would just wait until like july-august to get one because currently you have to be looking 24/7 to get one it's madness
@@FalconsLedge Language barrier here... but I got this on chat with WINWING; ***Because the orion joy is relatively small, so its power is not enough to hold the extension. We mean if you add an extention to an ORION, your divice may be off center, or you will meet other problems which may affect your game experience. So we donot recommend you to add an extension for ORION.*** Sounds grey area to me. Maybe I will try it.
@@marcw.5492 I.E. it can use an extension, but the springs may not be able to overcome the leverage of the stick. Considering it's an all metal gimbal I would suspect there is a way to add stronger springs
I guess I'll buy one and try it I sent an email to the folks who offer the extensions for win-wing sticks haven't heard back they are on Amazon the trick now is to get the Orion setup if it ever becomes available thanks for the reply
As a summer who still utilizes a standard desk setup and a normal chair, I find the Warthog setup the best. I can simply place the throttle on my desk’s left side L-extension, and place the joystick base on my normal chair between my legs. Winwings throttle base absolutely can’t be used. Virpil’s joystick might be too high, and base mishaped for placing on my chair. This is to say, I find this review fairly incomplete. Not everyone has or wants to use mounts to modify their desk setups - or maybe we value being able to put it away. Also what are the price differences? Lastly, what about ergonomics? TM is certainly not being innovative, but there was decades of research and testing that went into the control sticks on U.S. jets and planes. At some point, crowding the controls just means mistakes can and will be made.
I love the assumption that they're was not decades of research for o other companies. I find the winwing, VKB and Virpil controls to be MORE ergonomic by far than the Warthog. Winwings throttle base has the same dimensions as Warthog. It sounds like you are writing this with absolutely no experience with the other devices.
@@FalconsLedgeI did make an assumption about a research gap, but I'll by it. I'd place my faith on the U.S. military since the 70s/80s; designs which are used as for control in NASA modules as well. Something tells me that "they work." Where this is somewhat of an asymmetric argument is the U.S. military isn't trying to make the most ergonomic gear. If it's not uncomfortable for the length of time real pilot has to fly and doesn't develop long term physical problems, that's as good as that has to be. If there's ambiguity or a even a tiny chance of error in the pilot's input, or pilot's confidence about what they are inputting, that's a no go. Yeah, I'll take the world's top military budget research for being more than adequate. I'll give the others the benefit of being more comfortable to feel -- I've used other high end gaming equipment to know my particular TM flight gear isn't the most comfortable. Winwing's throttle you showed is NOT at all usable on a desktop like the TM Warthog base. You forgot what this video showed. The Winwing Orion2 base looks to be great and usable on a desk. I'm sure it has sufficient weight and base grips that prevent it from sliding and an improvement on my current base. Point is, I don't want to have to screw anything down to use it. I don't need to try out equipment that don't even meet functional requirements I can see and confirm before purchase. Most of the other gear compared to the TM Warthog requires consider modification to a desk, chair, and/or desk area beyond what is normal for productivity and other gaming use. There's reasons why many, like myself, don't want to make such modifications but still want something "high end" (or mid end if you want to knock it). You should take my comment somewhat more as critique for review substantiation. I'm sure the other HOTAS systems have the benefits you mention in this video. You just missed a huge consideration in this review that will apply to many which is that the TM Warthog is usable on very standard and existing desk and chair setups.
@@EbonySeraphim I'm on the hospital right now, so when I get out I can respond. Also this is my 2020 video. You may also like to know what winwings solutions are also copies from us aircraft, so all that research is in there too
Its the same advantage a joystick has over a game pad. The joystick has far more throw, and therefore more accuracy than a gamepad stick. This is basically the same principal why dual stick has an advantage over HOTAS. Even on the best HOTAS, your throttle side movements have very little throws, either via a hat switch, which has no granularity, or an analog stick, which has very little throw. The reason why it is only a slight advantage is as follows: The movements that are on the throttle side, or left stick side are secondary movements. Since the throttle thrust axis is roughly the same in terms of throws on both HOTAS and HOSAS we'll just drop that one as a factor, so the secondary movements I'm referring to are the "thruster" axis, or "strafe" axis, up, down, left, and right. This is why there is only a slight advantage and only in combat. When you are talking about flying formation or what-not for long periods of time, there is actually a slight advantage to using a throttle, because there is less pilot fatigue. This comparison is specific to combat, which is why I didn't bring the long term flight up.
@@isshaye Thats actually what this channel is all about. Taking all this so called useless knowledge I built up while researching to build sticks, and helping people with it.
The price is staggering . the warthog is nearly 800 bucks right now. I want one but I really can't justify that price. I mean I can afford it but I can't justify it. I have the TM16000 stick and throttle when I bought that in early 2019 it was 130 bucks now they are like 300 easy....it is getting nuts.
@@FalconsLedge Wow right on main :D I just bought the premium right hannder. with the tm throttle it looks to be almost as good as having a full warthog HOTAS ! SUBSCRIBED
HOTAS. The only reason VKB didn't make the list is that they do not have a throttle and therefore are not going to get included in a HOTAS roundup. I have two VKB sticks mounted to my desk right now if that tells you something.
As someone who owns the winwing HOTAS, it should be in first place. Well worth what I got it for. They couled easly get more for the quality and precision of it
And while I don't disagree that they are high quality, so are their competitors. Also they had a few growing pains with their initial units having some QA problems, but those may be behind them. Perhaps they will be first place this year, we'll see.
@@FalconsLedge mine was the first one they sent out with the latest revisions and updates. Definitely doesn’t have the issues of the past. Plus adding their two flight ready panels makes it that much better. While it’s not exact 1:1 replica as far as buttons and switches, the functionality is not lost. It’s fully there, at a higher quality. the look, feel and similarity to the real thing is why I went with them. Virpil or VKB, they are essentially just button boxes with some throttles added...
@@Cooper_013 and while the replica factor may be why you wanted that specifically, that is only a small factor in my comparisons. Many people don't care about that, they may play multiple aircraft, or play both air and space sims or what not, it really reduces the replica factor as a motivation in purchasing. I'm one of those people. I don't like the ridiculous looking sticks, but the gladiator NXT is a good example of a stick that doesn't look like anything real, but is a great stick.
@@FalconsLedge the throttle from winwing has the ability to set a center detent for space sims, and while it looks like an F/A-18 throttle, it can be assigned to any plane or any sim. But I get what you’re saying.
i am currently bought a vkb mk3 mcg pro for Startcitien, not sure if i should still wait for the vkb throttle or just buy a virpil one, it would be nice to just using one app for the hardware
Honestly, you can't go wrong either way, and I don't think you'd be kicking yourself for not waiting honestly. Look, the TECS is going to be a great product, but Virpil makes a helluva product too.
The TECS look amazing and a fantasitic idea 2.5 years ago when that pic released. Since then Virpil has released several throttles that are better featurewise than the pictures of the TEC suggest it'll be, and is about to release, or has just released, it's modular button boxes as well. VKB missed the bus with the TECS. Had they beat Virpil to release, they'd have a ton of people beating down their doors to get that throttle, now it's going to be people's 2nd choice and an afterthought.
Sorry folks, for some reason the timing is a little off, It was perfect in Resolve, but somehow got a bit off in recording somehow.
My wife thinks the Thrustmaster name is pretty funny...
Lol i literally didnt think of it like that until now thank you for that gift
Ha ha never thought of that before but it does sound like it could be some sort of high end sex machine 🤣🤣.
LOL Yes i bought a Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas One last year from Argos and the girl behind the counter Read out the description to me to confirm what i was picking up! She immediately latched onto the Thrustmaster part of the name and started laughing saying she had never sold a Thrustmaster before and hoped i enjoyed my item as it sounded like a lot of fun to own!
What is a wife?
@@97Navdeep Something that prevents you from spending enough time with your simulators...
Me watching these has about as much reality/point to it as checking rtx 3090 prices on ebay: nothing:D
"Hopefully it'll come out in 2021..."
Nope.. it didn't. :D
Matter of fact, I had no idea this was such a touchy subject. Been finding some weird discussion threads about the VKB-throttle that went very bad, very quickly for some reason...
Given the fact that they promised an entry level / ~$200 option, I'd be very interested in the VKB. I mean... my heart says VIRPIL of course, but my bank account seems to disagree. Plus I mostly fly WW2 era stuff where you don't really need the insane amount of controls that the VIRPIL offers.
Yeah it didn't but I know its close, I just don't want to make any other guesses to avoid any other touchyness. So yeah they'll have one that they say is going to be around $250. They also recently released a module called the THQ that has several small throttles on it, well they offer a module that connects two of those throttles and is made for WWII warbirds. I recommend checking out their site, its pretty cheap.
Using Warthog throttle with CM2 base and Mongoos CM2 grip - awesome combo. Even just changing the the base and using Warthog stick initially made a total difference but changing the stick, with all the additional functions, made it into a really formidable combo.
Great video, I had not heard about the warthog throttle upgrades, ordering ASAP!
2022, and still not here. VKB really be dropping the ball, big sad because I love their stick and pedals.
MSFS 2020 has made Thrustmaster complacent because demand has far exceeded supply, so Thrustmaster can sell as much as they can produce without having to innovate.
They were complacent far before that. I don't know if its because they are one of the two "mainstream" options or what, but you are also totally right, the high demand has allowed them to totally stagnate. Take the Winwing Orion vs Warthog Throttle, the Orion absolutely dominates the WH, because the WH is 10+ years old now, and hasn't been updated among other reasons.
I'd have put the Thrustmaster Warthog as an expensive mid-grade HOTAS, not High End, but I'd have to acknowledge that that is based on prejudice from owning a Cougar and not from any actual experience with the Warthog and comments I've read elsewhere similar to the ones you made at the beginning of this video about the Warthog. Like the Cougar, the Warthog seems to be a HOTAS for people that love to mod their gear rather than fly with it, as you can't really fly long term with the Warthog without first making a number of modifications to it to improve it and, based on a quick scan of pricing, possibly spending as much to improve the HOTAS as you spent to buy it in the first place.
Watch my latest hotas roundup. In my defense, thrustmaster considers the Warthog to be high end.
Man, first quarter almost throgh, and VKB' throttle still not availabe, nor is there an ETA...
Think I'm going for the WinWing... Although I'm not sure if I'm going to use it much.
Having is better than Wanting ;)
I bought a winwing, I'll still probably pick up the VKB for in the very least a review, we'll see how they stack up. Someday
The force sensing base from Real Simulator is by far the best I've ever used. It is called the R3 FSSB Lighting. I've been through 3 warthogs and the VKB Gunfighter MK III. The Real Sim stick (I have their SGRH viper grip also - one piece resin with five ways on most switches and a rotary under the trim hat to enable 8 profiles on the fly) blows them out of the water. Extremely precise and able the handle all the abuse my BFM can throw at it.
I've heard of this base before but haven't used it before. Since it is super rare I don't include it on the list.
@@FalconsLedge 590 euros for the base tax and shipped to the UK. About 480 euros for the viper SGRH grip.
My god man what have you been doing? My thrustmaster is 6 years old and has no problems or breaks.
#crazyrussianpilot :-> Awesome video!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Good stuff, thanks for this breakdown.
A small suggestion: I would highly recommend checking your volume levels. Music is very loud in the beginning of videos and it doesn't blend well with the volume of your voice. The mix is quite jarring and has made me auto-skip a few of your videos because it is so loud. Otherwise, great content. Keep it up!
Having access to all this cool stuff to play with is a drool inducing moment moment.
Bit late but reckon the virpil warbrd base would be suitable for desktop usage with a constellation?
Yes it can be used that way. I would highly, highly recommend a mount. for ANY stick. It is day and night difference.
The Winwing hotas are so nice. espacially the new orion.
dont forget to add a yaw 2 sim chair with that that ould make agreat combo only couple of hours left on kick starter Oo
quick question. If I buy the warthog HOTAS could I fly other planes like the f18 just as well? Looking to buy a hotas setup and don't know much. Want to buy Virpil but over 1k is kinda expensive.
Absolutely you can
Spoiler: VKB TECS Throttle didn't come out in 2021, either.
Yup, pretty disappointing, but I'm sure the chip shortage, lockdowns in China and what not all played roles. Here's to hoping next year?
I love the Virpil Mongoose base.
I’ve got TM Warthog stick and throttle
TM Hornet Stick
Virpil Mongoose CM2 with a 150mm extension. (Also have the curved Virpil 200mm but it’s too long of a throw to comfortably use in my sitting position)
VIRPIL F-14 stick
The Virpil Mongoose has taken over as my primary base for everything besides the F-16. (I use the TM base as a sidestick).
I want the WinWing Orion 2 in the F-16 config and the Taurus in the F-18.
I’m so close to pulling the trigger on the Orion 2 F-16. Just can’t decide if I want the F-16 or if I should save some money over the Taurus later on and buy the Orion 2 F-18 and then get the F-16 grip later (along with another Orion 2 later on so I don’t have to deal with swapping out the handles since the F-16 rail is a pain).
Also eyeing the Orion 2 base with the soon to be released pressure activation add on (so it functions just like a real F-16 stick)
The fssb looks to be pretty nice for falcon drivers for sure!
@@FalconsLedge
Yep. Just ordered the Orion 2 F-18.
Figured I could always order the Taurus w/o the grips along with the F-16 grip and put the F18 on the Taurus and convert the Orion 2 into a F-16 throttle.
The TM is metal except in the areas it needs (inside). I also searched all over looking for spare parts to no avail. TM wanted me to buy a completely new stick. I have since gone with Virpil, and loving every minute.
Yep absolutely true, and having a metal grip is a bit of a gimmick honestly. I've used metal sticks and both cheap and nice plastic ones. Honestly I'd rather have my kosmosima grip over the warthog stick
@@FalconsLedge I went with the Virpil Constellation Alpha after I received the WARBRD base the quality was so impressive. Going to be ordering the Control Panel #2 next week.
@@neodecker I just wish the warbrd had dry clutches, because of them I much prefer the VKB gunfighter to the warbrd
X52 made me an ace on aces high 2 😆
💯
I just bought a T16000M..... really hate the skyrocketed prices now
Good analysis.
The pandemic passes? It's here to stay in one manufactured form or another
Yeah something like that.
Man, great videos, may I ask you to also check for rudder twist? It is shame that most if not all high end sticks doesn't have rudder twist, as default or as option.
Most of the high end sticks do have rudder twist. A few don't, but I'd be happy to include that in the 2021 roundup
I'm a stay at home Dad, I need this
No you don't. Too distractive. You need to keep at least one eye on your kid(s) :)
I am looking at purchasing a F-16 Hotas. I am not sure if I should buy the A10 stick and mount or the F16 stick and the magnetic mount. Is there any difference in the A10 and F16 sticks? Is there any difference in the warthog mount vs the magnetic mount or the way it moves. Any help would be awesome.
No difference in the stick, night consider the winwing orion, they will have an f16 throttle and stick for their platform, as well as f18
Fantastic review from a former FALCON 4.0 driver who is itching to get back into the virtual cockpit. 😎
To say that I was an avid falcon 4.0 guy would probably be a lie, but I owned it and spent a good number of hours getting shot down and not properly learning the systems ;)
Hoping VKB will release their throttle. They make great products.
I'm waiting on baited breath for it
Yes ...very nice reviews there. I've a problem that hasn't really been addressed anywhere yet::::::do you know how to or know of x52 Pro profile set-ups and configuring other than the standard utility that loads from the logitech website into windows. It's been a while since I had a 15pin Thrustmaster Hotas and this looks a bit more involved Thanks in advance if yo know where the confusion lies...
I used an X52 for a long while, did not like thier utility so assigned most things in game.
I've had 2 Warthog throttles fail in 8 years. I'm switching to Virpil.
I would agree with you. Warthogs are nice, but if you are spending that kind of money, honestly the Virpil is better by far, or the winwing
+1 vote for the Virpil, great products.
My died after 2 years I just ordered super Taurus
@@B0bik I love my new Virpil throttle
Great vid!
I personally would rank winwing no1 because metal just feels way more solid than plastic that Virpil is using. Also, the longer throw of the throttle makes is much easier for small adjustments, this is not offered by any other brands.
Besides, winwing is going to offer more options to the grips (like the already available airbus grip, and f16 throttle handle & grip that are still in development). Exchangeable throttle handle is also unique atm.
Perhaps this year realsimulator can be mentioned? They got the new f35 hotas, but the main point is that the force sensing base is really one of its kind.
I don't include extreme low volume boutique sources like realsim. I'd love to review the stick, but these roundups are more for mainstream sticks
Just don't buy Warthog.... its shit
I don't think it's as good as it used to be, but I don't know if I'd call it shit
@@FalconsLedge For what it costs, yeah. At that price it had better be 100% perfection.
@@TheLukemcdaniel I would certainly agree that it is overpriced. I think its worth probably in the neighborhood of $350. I would actually love to see TM introduce a new high end stick with all metal construction, and then offer a new mid range version of the warthog that is basically the same with a few tweaks to improve some of the problems such as stiction, but the grip what not would be made of plastic, and really try to work both the high end and mid range markets.
So how far awy is your new version of this for 2022?
I j just released one a few weeks ago, so probably October or November 2022. I'm shooting for October to help with Christmas buying
@@FalconsLedge Thanks I will look for that :)
Huge sale at winwing right now.
I recognized the Wing Commander music at the start right away. Nice choice.
This year's giveaways will be linked to the intro music, stay tuned!
Amazing video....👌👌👌
The cm3
Cm3 are great
Hey, I have a story to tell about Thrustmaster T16km. A nightmare story. I’d like to tell it to you so that you can share it with other consumers. I could just tell it in the comments but I prefer it YOU reported on the story in your channel. :)
Send it to my business email, I have it on my about page
@@FalconsLedge Roger that.
Mug club
Man I’d love a 2022 update
I did one near the end of 2021.. pretty much goes like this: mid range - buy gladiator NXT EVO, two if you need a throttle. Warthog range: don't buy Warthog, it's outdated, buy winwing Orion instead. High end: you really can't go wrong, but if you ask what my favorite setup would be - VKB Gunfighter mk.iii, your choice of grip, and a Virpil cm3 throttle, Orion 2 is a close second. For pedals: mfg Crosswinds.
@@FalconsLedge ok I’ll check it out thanks!
Good video 😎👌
Can i use winwing stick and thrust master throttle combined ?
They will use separate software, but definitely yes!
So nice 💪😀 👌
random comment
A random comment lol
Thanks, but the drawing was some time ago, just know that in the future the comment will need to be more relevant, you'll see :)
@@FalconsLedge haha, I'm still in 2021 mode
Well done and so in depths video! Was great listening to and very informative.
The 2021 edition should be out tomorrow I hope, script, and audio recorded, just putting together video should be done tomorrow afternoon
You forgot to mention the advantage/disadvantage between HOTAS and HOSAS.
In space games with 6dof, HOSAS has an advantage. Having all axis on long throws gives you better accuracy
I have both the Winwing, and Virpil hotas.. As well as the cougar, and the f18 TM GRIP..I agree 100% with your assessment.
@@scoso1313 You won't be dissappointed.
sick
Still looking for a high-end stick with yaw
Vkb gunfighter with kosmosima grip, I'm using one right now
Also winwing offers a unit that can add twist to any of their sticks. VKB mcg is offered in both twist and no twist
@@FalconsLedge Wow, well that resolves things, thanks!
Ooooooh that Wing Commander music intro...Awesome...
Heck yeah
Ja ja ja VKB
With the winwing, the throttle grips can be changed to a heli collective grip in the future.
Yep, and it's very exciting. VKB s throttle is also going to have swappable grips
пожалуй самое лучшее сравнение что я видел на ютубе, спс бро
рад помочь чем смогу
Great tip about the hotas Warthog delta sim upgrade thx a lot
Is there a benefit to getting a stick extension? I'm looking at a vkb ultimate
Stick extensions help with precision. It's the same basic concept between accuracy between game pads and joysticks. Bigger movement range results in more precision.
Just a question if I may, I strictly want to use one of these units for Helicopter flying, which one would be the best to purchase? Thank you.
Couple up options: Virpil and Winwing offer helicopter collectives, combine that with a good stick, my recommendations would be vkb gunfighter, extension and mcg grip preferably ultimate, alternatively the Virpil mongoosT50 cm2 base with extension and either the mongoosT50 grip or possibly the constellation alpha, deepening on your preferences.
@@FalconsLedge Thank you for your response, I was thinking about the winwing CGRIP-KA50&T3-BASE&EXTENSION2&MT3 chair mount, would the joystick JGRIP-3xx&J1+BPJ1 be a good match? Not sure what you meant by vkb and mcg ?
@@andrew194854 so the VKB gunfighter with mcg ultimate would be the cyclic, the winwing item you ordered would be the collective, and as far as I understand, it's a good one. The mechanism is the same as the Orion.
@@FalconsLedge Thank you for your help.
Nice video
Just to give my two cents worth, I don't think you gave the WinWing it's due recognition. I am currently in the market to buy either the WinWing or Verpil and from what I have seen, the WinWing has a host of advantages over the Verpil IMHO. And just for flavor, WW is a commercial flight simulation provider, not just a joystick manufacture.
1st off, Verpil uses a single cam system, which is nice as far as smooth operation but the WW duel cam setup is a lot more realistic and precise.
Meaning, in the flight stick, the verpil has the same pressure on single cams to move the stick all the way to its boundaries where the WW increases in resistance using duel cams as you move it further from center. This gives you a better ability to micro use the throw for things like refueling and precise flying. It also provides a much smoother return to center.
The total throttle throw for the WW is almost double that of the verpil with a fulcrum throw that is double. This provides much more precise throttle response where you can actually achieve 1 kt throttle changes. Don't get me wrong, the verpil is a good setup far superior to Thrustmaster. But if you look at the bare bones of the Verpil gimbal next to the WW, WW took it to the next level. Not to mention they also provide the flight panels for their setup as well.
Another nice addition is all of their flight sticks are machined aluminum. Not plastic and they have the ability with their software to change your different hats to an actual axis. Thats pretty important if you fly DCS. I just thought you might like to re-evaluate the WW for yourself. Its really a next level system.
I like the winwing system, they are great and I look forward to getting more time with them. Virpil does offer a dual cam solution in the WarBRD gimbal. What it did not offer that winwing and VKB offer is a dry clutch. When it comes to single and dual cam, there are pros and cons to both, it ends up being a bit of a toss up in the end.
We'll see how winwing does in 2021
@@FalconsLedge I am pretty sure I am going with the WW. I will let you know how it works out. I have watched a few videos from Grim Reapers on the WW as well as a lot of comparison videos. But nothing is better than having them in your had to try yourself.
I will be selling my HOTAS system. I already did the gimbal upgrades with sanding and grease. It works a lot better but that bang to center just drives me crazy.
Cheers
@@Condor060 I think you will love the winwing, it's a lot better than the warthog that is for sure.
@@Condor060 winwing for the win 🏆
the hotas look good
Actually HOSAS vs HOTAS is not "slightly" more advantage. It's much more than "slightly". Throttle is very ineffective in space combat because of Newtonian translations and buttons are way more ineffective than stick.
I'll go over this in a later video, but because the thruster axis are really secondary movements, and there are hotas with analog sticks, it is slightly. It's still better, but only slightly.
Dude that clamp needs a thick desk otherwise it's going to break stuff.
Are you referring to my wooden ones? Not really thicker than other clamps honestly. I'm not using those anymore, I'm using foxx and monster mounts now
@@FalconsLedge Yes I would personally need to upgrade my desk, again.
Great review 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Any chance of doing an updated version?
It is in the works right now
but basically: Mid range: 2x VKB Gladiator NXT, Warthog Tier: Winwing Orion, High end: Virpil T-50CM3 Stick/Throttle.
I'm saving for a new graphics card AND the Virpil setup. In 2021. This is just my luck lol, maybe I'll just cash in my 401k.
I hear ya. I want a new video card, but do not have the funds to chase one right now.
@@FalconsLedge what graphics card do you have? I just got a 3060 which is pretty sweet
@@horashio1593 my system specs are in the description, but I'm still running a 1080. I desperately want a 3000 series card but don't have the capability of getting one right now.
@@FalconsLedge oh ok nice, the 3060 is a bit more underpowered than I would have liked. But before this I had a rx 460. So honestly I'm glad I got anything for a reasonable price! Also with the 30 series cards I would just wait until like july-august to get one because currently you have to be looking 24/7 to get one it's madness
@@horashio1593 I planned to buy a new card early next year
No VKB? LOL
VKB doesn't have a HOTAS.
VKB wasn’t included?
Are there extensions for the ORION ? I see the Super L has one but not to be used for Orion ??
I believe the extensions work for both, I think they share a connector
@@FalconsLedge Language barrier here... but I got this on chat with WINWING;
***Because the orion joy is relatively small, so its power is not enough to hold the extension. We mean if you add an extention to an ORION, your divice may be off center, or you will meet other problems which may affect your game experience. So we donot recommend you to add an extension for ORION.***
Sounds grey area to me. Maybe I will try it.
@@marcw.5492 I.E. it can use an extension, but the springs may not be able to overcome the leverage of the stick. Considering it's an all metal gimbal I would suspect there is a way to add stronger springs
@@marcw.5492 Extensions create an incredibly large amount of leverage, it will blow you away how much lighter the stick is extended
I guess I'll buy one and try it I sent an email to the folks who offer the extensions for win-wing sticks haven't heard back they are on Amazon the trick now is to get the Orion setup if it ever becomes available thanks for the reply
Great work :)
To use that all, will be the best ^^
As a summer who still utilizes a standard desk setup and a normal chair, I find the Warthog setup the best. I can simply place the throttle on my desk’s left side L-extension, and place the joystick base on my normal chair between my legs.
Winwings throttle base absolutely can’t be used. Virpil’s joystick might be too high, and base mishaped for placing on my chair.
This is to say, I find this review fairly incomplete. Not everyone has or wants to use mounts to modify their desk setups - or maybe we value being able to put it away. Also what are the price differences? Lastly, what about ergonomics? TM is certainly not being innovative, but there was decades of research and testing that went into the control sticks on U.S. jets and planes. At some point, crowding the controls just means mistakes can and will be made.
I love the assumption that they're was not decades of research for o other companies. I find the winwing, VKB and Virpil controls to be MORE ergonomic by far than the Warthog.
Winwings throttle base has the same dimensions as Warthog.
It sounds like you are writing this with absolutely no experience with the other devices.
@@FalconsLedgeI did make an assumption about a research gap, but I'll by it. I'd place my faith on the U.S. military since the 70s/80s; designs which are used as for control in NASA modules as well. Something tells me that "they work." Where this is somewhat of an asymmetric argument is the U.S. military isn't trying to make the most ergonomic gear. If it's not uncomfortable for the length of time real pilot has to fly and doesn't develop long term physical problems, that's as good as that has to be. If there's ambiguity or a even a tiny chance of error in the pilot's input, or pilot's confidence about what they are inputting, that's a no go. Yeah, I'll take the world's top military budget research for being more than adequate. I'll give the others the benefit of being more comfortable to feel -- I've used other high end gaming equipment to know my particular TM flight gear isn't the most comfortable.
Winwing's throttle you showed is NOT at all usable on a desktop like the TM Warthog base. You forgot what this video showed. The Winwing Orion2 base looks to be great and usable on a desk. I'm sure it has sufficient weight and base grips that prevent it from sliding and an improvement on my current base. Point is, I don't want to have to screw anything down to use it.
I don't need to try out equipment that don't even meet functional requirements I can see and confirm before purchase. Most of the other gear compared to the TM Warthog requires consider modification to a desk, chair, and/or desk area beyond what is normal for productivity and other gaming use. There's reasons why many, like myself, don't want to make such modifications but still want something "high end" (or mid end if you want to knock it).
You should take my comment somewhat more as critique for review substantiation. I'm sure the other HOTAS systems have the benefits you mention in this video. You just missed a huge consideration in this review that will apply to many which is that the TM Warthog is usable on very standard and existing desk and chair setups.
@@EbonySeraphim I'm on the hospital right now, so when I get out I can respond. Also this is my 2020 video.
You may also like to know what winwings solutions are also copies from us aircraft, so all that research is in there too
What was the slight advantage you mentioned using hosas over hotas?
Its the same advantage a joystick has over a game pad. The joystick has far more throw, and therefore more accuracy than a gamepad stick.
This is basically the same principal why dual stick has an advantage over HOTAS. Even on the best HOTAS, your throttle side movements have very little throws, either via a hat switch, which has no granularity, or an analog stick, which has very little throw.
The reason why it is only a slight advantage is as follows: The movements that are on the throttle side, or left stick side are secondary movements. Since the throttle thrust axis is roughly the same in terms of throws on both HOTAS and HOSAS we'll just drop that one as a factor, so the secondary movements I'm referring to are the "thruster" axis, or "strafe" axis, up, down, left, and right.
This is why there is only a slight advantage and only in combat.
When you are talking about flying formation or what-not for long periods of time, there is actually a slight advantage to using a throttle, because there is less pilot fatigue. This comparison is specific to combat, which is why I didn't bring the long term flight up.
It should be mentioned that I think the best setup is actually Dual stick + throttle, which is what I use.
@@FalconsLedge Wonderful, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. That helps a lot.
@@isshaye Thats actually what this channel is all about. Taking all this so called useless knowledge I built up while researching to build sticks, and helping people with it.
The price is staggering . the warthog is nearly 800 bucks right now. I want one but I really can't justify that price. I mean I can afford it but I can't justify it. I have the TM16000 stick and throttle when I bought that in early 2019 it was 130 bucks now they are like 300 easy....it is getting nuts.
Buy a Gladiator NXT, and use the TM throttle, you will love it, and it's way cheaper
@@FalconsLedge Wow right on main :D I just bought the premium right hannder. with the tm throttle it looks to be almost as good as having a full warthog HOTAS ! SUBSCRIBED
@@ladyhawk7408 yeah I sold my Warthog after the review and bought a gunfighter to go with my gladiator, love it so far.
Does the winwing have a twist option on the joystick?
There is an add on module that provides twist, yes.
@@FalconsLedge and how much does that cost?
@@CptFrosty 80 dollars
Awesome
This is literally just a Virpil ad... VKBs newest MCG Ultimate kicks virpil to the curb.
HOTAS. The only reason VKB didn't make the list is that they do not have a throttle and therefore are not going to get included in a HOTAS roundup.
I have two VKB sticks mounted to my desk right now if that tells you something.
vkb sucks
Is there any high end stick that i can swap for both left and right hand?
None that swap between no, but there are plenty that have a left hand grip, VKB and. Virpil both offer left j hand varieties
As someone who owns the winwing HOTAS, it should be in first place. Well worth what I got it for. They couled easly get more for the quality and precision of it
And while I don't disagree that they are high quality, so are their competitors. Also they had a few growing pains with their initial units having some QA problems, but those may be behind them. Perhaps they will be first place this year, we'll see.
@@FalconsLedge mine was the first one they sent out with the latest revisions and updates. Definitely doesn’t have the issues of the past. Plus adding their two flight ready panels makes it that much better. While it’s not exact 1:1 replica as far as buttons and switches, the functionality is not lost. It’s fully there, at a higher quality.
the look, feel and similarity to the real thing is why I went with them. Virpil or VKB, they are essentially just button boxes with some throttles added...
@@Cooper_013 and while the replica factor may be why you wanted that specifically, that is only a small factor in my comparisons. Many people don't care about that, they may play multiple aircraft, or play both air and space sims or what not, it really reduces the replica factor as a motivation in purchasing.
I'm one of those people. I don't like the ridiculous looking sticks, but the gladiator NXT is a good example of a stick that doesn't look like anything real, but is a great stick.
@@FalconsLedge the throttle from winwing has the ability to set a center detent for space sims, and while it looks like an F/A-18 throttle, it can be assigned to any plane or any sim. But I get what you’re saying.
i am currently bought a vkb mk3 mcg pro for Startcitien, not sure if i should still wait for the vkb throttle or just buy a virpil one, it would be nice to just using one app for the hardware
Honestly, you can't go wrong either way, and I don't think you'd be kicking yourself for not waiting honestly. Look, the TECS is going to be a great product, but Virpil makes a helluva product too.
@@FalconsLedge oh man, I just ordered one from Virpil!😂
@@suppermanzzzz291 I'm jealous, that is a great throttle!
@@FalconsLedge thanks for the videos!👍
@@FalconsLedge btw, do you know what are the materials of the detent? thanks
The TECS look amazing and a fantasitic idea 2.5 years ago when that pic released. Since then Virpil has released several throttles that are better featurewise than the pictures of the TEC suggest it'll be, and is about to release, or has just released, it's modular button boxes as well.
VKB missed the bus with the TECS. Had they beat Virpil to release, they'd have a ton of people beating down their doors to get that throttle, now it's going to be people's 2nd choice and an afterthought.
Virpils throttle is great, but I disagree with you on it being an afterthought. It has some great tech, it will compete just fine.
Slew nub.
Stubby slew thingy?
@@FalconsLedge I just like the name. I replaced mine with the mini analogue stick.