AR-15 Barrel Length & Twist Rate (Part I)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Here we talk AR-15 Barrel Length & Twist Rate. Nate Murr, Inventor of the Gripstop, and I talk AR-15 short barrel vs longer barrel, twist rate, muzzle velocity, M855 62gr Green Tip and M193 55gr ammo and much more. Do you want a longer or shorter barrel on your AR-15 build? We hope we answered most of your questions on building an AR-15 and barrel length and twist rate. Leave a comment below. Thanks!
Barrel Lengths discussed: 10.5", 14.5", 16", 18" and 20"
Twist Rates Discussed: 1 in 7, 1 in 8, 1 in 9, 1 in 10 and 1 in 12
Ammo Discussed: M193 55gr Ball, M855 62gr Green Tip, SS109 77gr Sierra Match King
Check out Nate's Instagram:
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I'll take the extra velocity of a 20 inch barrel vs any SBR any day. Depends on environmental factors of course but I'm definitely not going to be kicking in doors any time soon.
Exactly. It's a small caliber and depends on velocity. Short barrels look cool, but the reality is longer barrels are more effective and produce less flash.
nice presentation. i just got a 5.56, 16in barrel in a 1:8 twist. looking forward to playing with it.
that dude knows his stuff.. I felt uncomfortable with my limited brain function.
great video guys!
Twist rate is a personal choice and is somewhat determined by the manufacturer as is barrel length it really depends on what your doing with your rifle and what rifle you buy.Some take it to the extreme some times with truck guns but again it's their choice. Personally I like the 1:8 it stabilizes what I shoot and I have 16 and 18 inch barrels and it works for me.
I have a friend who's father was a green beret in Vietnam and he has photos of his father carrying a C.A.R. 15 with a vertical fore grip and a suppressor.
Snowdonkie can you find this photo and post a scan or take a picture of it?
Yes pictures would appreciated. There were S&W 9mm and some .45's fitted with suppressors, I have yet to see or hear of an XM177 being fitted with one or a vertical fore-grip. On the the subject of the XM177 carbine, which actually is what is considered pistol length now a days or an SBR with an 11.5" barrel, the video says XM155 which is probably just a "whoops".
Great video. Most straightforward explanation of ballistic performance as it pertains to barrel length I've seen yet.
Very cool information. I'm currently building my first AR15 and this is gives me alot to think about.
So, realistically, a 7.5”-16” barrel combined with a standard 55 grain bullet will have effective terminal ballistics at 0-150 yards. When combined with the m855 rounds, it will penetrate, but won’t fragment effectively. Gotcha 👍🏼
realistically, a 7.5 won't make a m193 fragment at point blank. If you want to use FMJ, 16" minimum, 20" ideally.
In the 90's I had no problem in urban area's with a 20" barrel. When I received the m4 I did not care for it. I guess I'm just old school.
I would like to see a dmr section with suppressor discussion (impact shifts, velocity lose or gains, and how it effects the projectile on certain lengths of a rifle). I know that is asking a lot Berz. Keep em coming brother.
In 1960, a 20" was a carbine lenth barrel... All the other US rifles in WW2 was 24", the post war M14 was 22" plus a long flash hider. The M1 Carbine had a 18"
Well actually the 20 inch rifle was standard length seeing how it was a 5.56 and the other rifles you have mentioned here where either 30-06 or 7.62. The carbine length came out in 66 with the CAR-15 in Vietnam when the military asked for a shorter rifle for special operations units. And this lead to the adjustable stock and a 15 inch barrel and round forward hand guard. That's is when the carbine craze started.
@@umami0247 No. that is not the start carbines, just the start of a shorter M16. Also see Musketoon lol
This is one of the most interesting videos on this subject I have ever seen !
I'd rather opt for a 20" barrel. I couldn't justify the marginal benefit of an 18" barrel over a 16" that I already have.
Makes sense to me. I have neither, so I think I will go middle of the road and build 18"
there's a high pitch noise playing in the background
when will youtube give us an onboard equalizer?!?!?!
yeah, that was killing me!
Just garbage mics I'd bet
Great video. Perfect timing, Getting ready to build my first AR15.
20" served the Corps well while taking Fallujah -- twice. Something the Army couldn't do in two attempts, with better equipment and more air and armor support.
Heinrich Von Kekelnazi maybe you should read up on who actually fought in the second battle of fallujah. It was quite a mix of troops and it was an escalation of forces in the area.
It all comes Down to ammo in regards to 5.56 being lethal. The velocity loss from a 20 to a 16 inch barrel is minimal.
The first ar ever was a 222 and their is a few out their in private ownership,then 223,the 5.56x45 to up the the ability, in a 14 inch twist, then down 12 inch. 12 inch twist in 55 grain is the best for close to 150 yards. Unstable built tumbles and on a human body and does a good job.
GREAT vids Berz !!!!!
The info/barrel length JU-JU is OUTSTANDING !
THX to you BOTH !!
Please keep them coming !!
The way I see it is if I'm going to be shooting anything past 150 yards I grab my 270. If um hog hunting in a thicket or shooting less than 150 I grab my ar, it's that simple for me. I understand that in a combat scenario yiu can't do that but for all other purposes I can.
WOW......Nate knows his stuff......Thanks for the info.........I'm getting ready to build my first AR and this helped a lot with some of my questions.........
Great video, and great attitude from Berz letting someone with more technical know how take the lead.
A video worth archiving!
The best and most informative video on the subject ..
When someone is shooting at you from 500 yards, you'll wish you had left that snub-nose phone booth clearing pea shooter home and had a 20" M-16A1 or A2. Trust me 🪖🇺🇸
You don't need 20" to shoot 500 yards. LMAO. Even she said that!
16in bbl 1/9 twist
Another thing you may not know is that the flash hider on most NATO rifles was exactly 22 millimeters in diameter for the purpose of firing rifle grenades. Perhaps all of the other commercial "flash" hidders are just for looks. Of course today we use the 40mm attachments or M79s. The other thing you may not know is that short barrels sound like the enemys' rifles (FAL or AKMs) and, particularly at night, this may draw friendly fire.
Went 20" on my 6.5G for extended range hunting
But do agree short barrels have their purpose
Also have 16" 5.56 & 10.5" x39
Muir knows his stuff
AlphaHotel0311 He sure does, and I like to get the best information out to my viewers, not talk about stuff I am not fully versed in like some TH-cam channels do. I do not know everything and have no problem saying so when that is. I have a good understanding of this subject but Murr really has put the time in, studied it, lived it, and taught it, etc. ;)
Good info. For myself 20in is my to go lenght! I understand shorter barrels but I'm a pretty big guy and a 20in fits me very well. The M4's are for the smaller frame people imho.
This was a great video… My only part disagreement is that barrels over 18 inches have their place. If you are doing a build for precision work at distances greater than 500 meters then a barrel over 18" may be of benefit (higher muzzle velocity) to keep the bullet supersonic longer for accuracy. Especially in heavier loads… But for 99% of shooters / builders this is video is spot on!!
Part II was phenomenal too… You discussed more about this. I would love for you to do a Part 3 with: chamber types, feed ramps, barrel contours, etc.
Very informative - and another reason 300 blackout rocks
.223/5.56 was designed to be fired out of a 20 inch barrel. Shorter the barrel less effect the round becomes. The round depends on the high velocity to be effective. There is a huge reason 300 BLK is replacing the 5.56 for SBR's ar15s
2 thumbs up
I think the barrel length is subject to the environment in which you live. If you live in an urban environment then a 16" barrel is what you need, but if you live in a wilderness habitat then perhaps a 20" barrel would be more practical.
20" barrel, 1:7 twist, 62gr 5.56. No other choice for me.
I want a retro AR15. I want my first AR15 to look like an m16. Fixed stock. Carrying handle. 20 Round Mags. Iron sights. Almost like the one that my father used in Vietnam.
Great Content Guys!! Definitely Following This Channel!
Beautiful. Just subscribed. Recently bitten by the gun bug.
Welcome aboard!
JP McPherson guns are cool. But what even cooler is when the training bug bites you.
basically spent the whole video explaining why the 20 inc barrel is superior in every aspect BUT in confined spaces such as a house, only to come to to conclusion that you would never build a 20inch upper. o.0
20 inch uppers have their place and are better in just about every scenario past 100 yards.
if you use your rifle for just target shooting and or hunting - 20 inch.
if you use it primarily as a ranch rifle - 20inch
if you use it primarily as a home defense rifle - 16 inch
there is no reason to limit your ballistic capability unless your surroundings absolutely require that you do.
the only reason most people steer away from the 20's now a days is because its not general considered as "cool"
The AR15 market is flooded wit trend following zombies.
A 20 inc rifle with a collapsible stock is only an inch or two longer than someone holding a fully extended handgun.
If you look at the muzzle velocity charts of an 18" vs 20" barrels, that's where the "law of diminishing returns" really takes effect and they become kind of arbitrary. He said he'd opt for an 18" for a dmr style rifle due to this. If you think 20" is great, then by all means dive on it. I think even a 24" would be cool, but it's ultimately cosmetic in the end and that much more of a pain to store and move with. Really you only want a barrel that's just barely long enough to accomplish what you want it to though, in the end.
Btw, we have 20" rifles in our towers at work and 16"s for our mobile positions, however we have the option to use the 20's during training. I'll tell you what, they're fine static-wise but they're a fucking pain to run around with. It's like the guys that pack their kitchen sink when going hiking. On paper, it sounds great. But actually hoofing around with it, it sucks.
Dont you worry I'm bringing the 20incher back into style ;)
What Dan said right here... Someone frame this.
7.62 x51 is coming back because it can shoot weak small loads or 1000 yard heavy loads with ELD rounds that perform like 300 WM
Theoretical Question...
62 gr designed to move at 3100 f/s through a 1 in 8 barrel...
Now if you run that same 62 gr through a 7.5 inch barrel at 2200 f/s... does it lose stability???
Should not the twist rate change ?
@ tsafa: Reloaders/hand-loaders have long-known that if the twist rate is marginal, one can sometimes compensate for it with higher MV, and still get a well-stabilized bullet which does not keyhole on target. To answer your question, in theory yes the barrel length - and thereby attained MV - should have an impact on stability of your 62-grain projectile. The easier way would be to test it empirically, i.e., by going to the range and firing test groups with each at a variety of distances and studying closely the targets for signs of keyholing and degraded accuracy/stability. My hunch is that both examples will adequately stabilize the 62-grain bullet, but that the maximum stabilized range of the shorter barrel is going to substantially less. In other words, it will take less time and therefore less yardage for its flight path to decay. That stands to reason since it ought to go transsonic and then subsonic sooner, thereby becoming dynamically-unstable sooner. Your 62-grain bullet is tail-heavy naturally when at rest; what keeps it stable and in the proper nose-first orientation is the very high rate of spin imparted by the rifling. Once that decays, the projectile will begin becoming unstable and eventually its spin rate will decay such that it will exhibit greater yaw and finally "swap ends" as its spin fails to keep it nose-forward. A bullet not fully-stabilized as it leaves the barrel characteristically shows poor accuracy and "keyholing" of the target, for these reasons.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961
Great information. Thanks for taking the time to write this.
@@tsafa -You bet... no worries.
Mmmmkayy. Twist rate wasn't discussed. Looking for part 2 just to see if I just wasted my time
The Marine Corps still uses the 20 inch m16a4 for the range and velocity. Army mostly uses m4.
No the m14 is the dmr ( designated marksmen rifle) the a4 has 16" barrel along with m16a2. The m4 has 14"
Taylor Nothnagel Uh no you are wrong. Both the a4 and a2 have 20 inch barrels. I would know I was a Marine
Your still wrong Hansen you are(former) marine as I am myself, I know it's 20, I just like gettin under peeps skin. YUT! And ur wrong about you was a marine not the 20" part, you will always be a devil dog
brothers chill out hoahhh!
Thanks for the info, great video.
Interesting video Berz. Got a Model1Sales 16" upper in 5.45 with 1:8 twist earlier this year. Read articles on twist rates. Those rounds keyhole terribly with less twist. Think my CAI AK is same twist, same barrel length. Put on paper at 100, no keyholes. Been busy and have not been able to test it much. Again, good video.
wish they would have posted the full version of the video. id like to hear what all the guy on the left had to say about the rifle and such.
My goto is an 18 inch 1:8 twist in .556 my reasoning is I like the full length gas system and .556 was designed for a 20 inch barrel as we all know so anything lower you're losing that velocity at range.
With that being said I've owned a 10.5 inch .556 and a 12 inch .556 AR when I go target shooting the 10.5 hits out about 200 torso sized groups the 12 about out to 250.
Now when hog hunting anything above 100.yards they have problems taking them down that's because even though on the range they might look like they can hit out hard at 200 yards plus but in reality .556 needs a vertain velocityto work.
If not you're basicly hitting with a beefy .22 lr if you want a short barrel ar go with 300 black out or 6.5 creadmor or whatever is out there at the moment I mean we are no longer bound by .556 lol.
good info' however i went to Bootcamp in 1985 M.C.R.D. San Diego.
i was litteraly in the last Company that was issued the M-16 (a1) rifle we qualified at 200 yards' 300 yards and 500 yards..
the A1 weighd a lil less than the A2 from my memory. had a thinner barrell and a shorter barrel also.. the A2 had improoved sights stronger and longer stock... newer flash hider/suppressor and had brass deflector integral.. finger groove on pistol grip and different hand guards.. basically the same rifle but with some very significant upgrades.. we were already begiining to shoot the newer Nato round when i checked into my first Active duty unit that replaced the Vietnam era 55 grain bullet the new green tipped Nato round was used in desert Storm and Somalia as well as other battle grounds. many reports from Army Rangers in the Migadishu fight were saying it took two or three hits sometimes to drop an enemy Somalian soldier (skinny's) those dudes typically weigh about 160 pounds thats not a big man.. and if it takes two hits or three hits from a 5.56x45 mm round at 62 grain. thats not good baliatics..
thw 300 blackout or a good 7.62x51. doesnt have these issues.. so yes theb77 grain ball round u mention here os much more lethal due to its mass. i dont see why logic doesnt scream loudly to the military to widely use the 77 grain bullet or have the D.M.R. program reintroduced at the squad level to have at least two men per squad with a 7.62mm rifle to help with hard targets.. either way the military loves the AR platform becauwes its lightweight and ammo is easy to hump i get it especially as a grunt.. or In the L.R.R.P type missions u need to carry more ammo and less weight if possible but what good is it if it takes 2 or 3 shots to drop the threat?? 77 grain all day long baby!!!!!! one shot one kill.... lets wise up!. and make our shots count.
A 20 inch barrel with a 1/9 twist is armor piercing with a 55 grain bullet at close quarters ....18inch is not
24 inch bull barrel 1/9 TARGET CROWN. Running 55gn fmj at almost 3400 fps im not clearing houses if i need to i got my tokarev hand loads at 1972 fps clearing house and next door as well lmao
That was interesting, who’s the bloke on my left(your right.
I don't know about that, I use a 20inch barreled c7 (m16) in the cf, it's extremely accurate and reliable with a low recoil impulse, being a big guy it doesn't feel like a hindrance in cqb, clearing rooms and shooting in close proximity. it's still easily maneuverable, my arm can reach the end on the rifle in a way that I can grip it firmly and have positive control over it, I barely feel recoil or have muzzle deviation when I do this whereas with a carbine I need to bend my arm to hold the rifle which makes for a much less stable platform, what makes it worse is less stopping power, more recoil and less reliability. I think you should only settle for less than 18inches if you are very small
thisghy short people problems.. I'm 5'8" and love me the long guns, but a 18" gun is pushing the length for me at my height. it only becomes a problem though when I have to wear body armor and the length of pull starts to get out there.
Great info!
He has beard. he is right
Abe Halawa what do you think the point of hair that short combined with a lumberjack beard is? Is this a reverse mullet?
Right!!!
Great video thank you
Great info
Thanks
14.5 & 1:8
I used to have a per-Clinton ban AR15 and one of the best shooting rifles that I had for 100+yds. Also one of the few that have no recoil that I can shoot because of my AR. And with the right barrel the the AR15 can still hit for the 1500M and still take down a target. Now personally I do not want to pay the $200 tax for SBR/SBS or suppressor. My problem is the Liberal media calls an AR15 an assault weapon when it is just a platform.
nicely said.
If you actually look up the velocity difference between the 20" barrel vs the 14.5 there is only about 100fps variation even at 500 yards. The difference between the 20" and the 16" is approximately 50fps. Don't know where you came up with the 14.5" is only effective at 100 yards.
Mk 262 will fragment down to around 1500 fps outta 16 inch barrel thats like 700 yards
At 500 yards with m855 your more like in the 1700 fps range and about 400 ft lbs of energy thats more then a 9mm at the muzzle. Green tip fragments at lower then 2500 just not reliably
I learned something new! :D
What about other caliber's ???? My 6.8 has a 20" barrel and that's my barrel length. Do other cartridges too .
Cap'n, good video..... Part II should be "How To Grow a Full Beard like Bluto". Mine grows like a goatee
I would be more than happy to learn about the philosophy behind "make love and war."
Short barrel does not make full use of the burn rate of the powder in the cartridge . if I could afford to build specialized AR it would be 20 inch bullpup piston with a tab on bolt and slot in the upper housing no forward assistance plunger .
Is there a part 2? Awesome video...
Ian Shepherd Coming out today in 9 minutes...
i just got done building a desitanted marksman rifle but i went with a 1/8 twist 20" stainless steal heavy barrel.223 wylde.
do you think thats was a good choice??as of now I'm getting awesome results with it :) so much fun and make you appreciate what you built
Sure, that will get it done!
There is a video of guy testing 10 inch sbr ballistics it was out to 100 or 200 can't remember exactly it still fragmented, a 10 inch sbr!!!
For the record, your 500 yard numbers are way off. From a 20 in barrel, with a muzzle velocity of 3100 fps and a G1 BC of about .309 M855 is going to have about 1600 fps remaining at 500 yards.
Now from a 10.3 in barrel (Mk18), you're looking at just over 2700 fps at the muzzle, which puts you transonic at 500 yards.
16.5 M4 work fine
Right?
What kind of muzzle breaks are those 2 on this video
they refuse to answer this question
what is better for 6.5 grendel ? 20" 1x8 twist and rifle , or 18" 1x8-5R and mid lengths ?
I do not have experience with 6.5. But a lower twist is always better at stabilizing heavier bullets.
CaptainBerz thanks for your attention , i appreciated.
I've seen vids of guys with twenty Inch barrels punching through ar 500 armor due to higher velocity. Do you think that can be done with an 18 inch barrel?
Doubtful they can punch through AR500 armor with FMJ or anything non steel cored.
LOL SURE
+CaptainBerz saw a video on TH-cam where they tested that armor. Somewhere between60-90 green tips fired, two rounds penetrated. obviously realistically speaking, you'll never be shot at 60 + times in the chest plate.
CaptainBerz doesnt that depend on the thickness of the ar500?
Depends. On Level III armour, which is rated for 7.62 NATO by AR500, even the XM193's can penetrate fully. You need Level III+ armour to reliably stop the M855's.
does having a free floating handguard make that much of a difference in accuracy?
sniperbait1 The majority of the accuracy of a gun lies in the operator of it.
Does it matter in a desperate time in war
so how much of a difference does the 2-4 inches of shorter barrel make in closer quarters combat? am in california so ive never been able to feel either long or short barrels, ive only shot 30 inch shotguns
what kind of muzzle break is on that stainless steel ar
Hey Capt. I have a 16" barrel on my Ar15. Is that suitable for hunting white tail
are there vids on the 2 ARs
Are there any manufacturers that produce a 20 inch barrel with a 1 in 9 twist?
I’d Go 1/8 or 1/7. For heavier bullet stabilization.
@@CaptainBerz But that does not answer my question. 1 in 9 out of a 20 inch barrel spins considerably faster than 1 in 9 out of a 16 inch barrel.
20 inch barrel or nothing. Yes, 16 inch barrels weigh less, but they recoil more, create significantly lower velocities which decreases the range and lethality that you NEED with a .22 caliber bullet, and you lose accuracy. I'll take 4 more inches of length and 1/4lb more of weight, for a lower recoiling, more accurate, more lethal 20 inch rifle.
+NovaMan 350 if u cant handle the recoil of a 22 you shoudnt be shooting
+hambone950 It isn't that you can't handle it, it is that you can shoot faster without spraying bullets all over creation.
+NovaMan 350 "Yes, 16 inch barrels weigh less, but they recoil more" This is PATENTLY false. The Length of an A15/m16 barrel has dick to do with recoil. Recoil is determined by your gas tube length. The Longer your gas tube the less recoil you experience. If you could find a 16 inch ar15 barrel that can utilize a rifle length gas system it would have the exact same recoil as a 20 inch barrel. A LOT of dumbasses get 16 inch barrels with carbine length gas systems and they have a more recoil than the midlength gas system 16 inch barrels.
Moto Rad Did I ever imply or say it would be good? No! I only said the recoil difference between the 16 inch rifle length and a 20 inch rifle length would be unnoticeable. Now fuck off.
godofawesum223 The recoil would only improve since everything would be undergassed. Go get your armorer's cert before you start spewing bullshit on the internet.
what kinda of barrel does the guy on the left have on his ar?
What kind of angled grip is that?
Berz, is the gripstop considered a vertical fore grip or angled fore grip ? I would like to put one on a future pistol build but have concerns with ATF compliance.
Sneakywakiki Variable Angle...
So AR20” 1:7 twist is it good?
Firearms are only as good as the owner at accuracy
gatta say the picture of the two joes clearing the house made me giggle. they have dual-eye nvgs. kinda seems hard to aim, or designate your IR laser from someone else's in a high adrenaline situation. also, the first guy in the room lacks eye pro. art15, loss of rank.
20-to 14 1/2 is slight shorter ! ..dude that's 25% shorter . right right right right
Will you be discussing sbr length barrels?
Okieundercover We did cover SBR barrel lengths in this video in relation to the topic. Can you expand on what you would like to see? In part II there will be more discussion that might hit on the this topic.
CaptainBerz Regarding this subject, Berz, can you give us some data on proper twist rates for AR pistol barrels? The most common lengths I'm seeing on the market are 7.5" and 10.5", all done in standard 1 in 9 twist. I'm setting up to do an AR pistol build and would like some advice regarding ammo and barrel to get the most juice out of the shorter platform. Thanks bro!
6:09 😞 If it does not have a 20"+ barrel it's truly not a rifle, it's really a carbine or SBR, rifles are meant to hit with force over longer distances, and carbines and SBR'S are meant to hit with force within medium to short distance, traditionally rifle barrel lengths were 20"-50" today it's like people want rifle performance from a carbine, a carbine is a light weight short rifle, but not truly a rifle in the traditional sense, carbines are meant for CQB not distance, I don't see how he can confidently say that the 20"+ barrels are obsolete when they are clearly not, it's just that people want to look "TACTIC😎😎L" and we all also want to get SBR'S removed off of the NFA list, so the short answer is a rifle can do everything that a carbine/SBR can but at longer distances with better stability but they do not maneuver in vehicles, doorways and tight spaces like a carbine, and carbine/SBR can do everything that a rifle can do but only at a short limit range but are more maneuverable and concealable but not as powerful or accurate as a rifle, I never heard of a sniper using a carbine as their primary weapon, can you truly be called a rifleman with a carbine as your primary weapon? It's questionable maybe a Carbineman lol just playing!
Adopting the .223 is the biggest mistake the US Military ever made and the move back toward the .308 caliber..( i.e. The Blackout) which is actually nothing more than the 300 Whisper renamed, proves it...If you read the stories of the Army Infantry and their reaction to Stoner's invention when it was first shoved down their collective throats, you will see it for yourselves.....Kalashnikov had it right from the beginning...The US Military was just to proud/stupid/cheap to see it...I would not be surprised to see the .223 abandoned in the not to distant future...
I've heard the military is staring to look more into 6.8spc now
What's the handguard on the 18 inch build?
Ian Jacob AM-TAC 15" Keymod....
Are you twins?
What buffer do you recommend on a 18" and 20" barrel?
JSCamouflage carbine and H buffer worked for me on both barrel lengths.
my Name is berz
I'll tell you why you would need a 20" barrel...for hunting varmints.
Depends, four legs or two?
April Hales oh for the love of god, don't worry about it. just be waiting in the kitchen until the men get back so you can clean the haul before you cook it for them.
Brandon BoxCutter lmao lol haha rofl
Brandon BoxCutter Wow, you must of Substandard intelligence to be watching gun videos and not know what a 2 legged varmint is. Either that or you must have eaten alot of them.
Check out the wound channel on TH-cam. He's done some cool tests on this topic.