A longer bullet has to spin faster than a shorter bullet to maintain a stable flight profile. Since all three bullets (55gn, 62gn, and 77gn) are 5.556mm/.223" in diameter, heavier bullets are longer than lighter bullets. So, a 77gn bullet can spin at 1/7" and a 55 gn bullet can spin at 1/9" to maintain a stable flight profile. At longer ranges as bullet spin rate diminishes, it's rotational wobble (bullets angle of attack compared to it's spin axis) increases, reducing stable flight profile and increasing MOA (minute of angle) of flight profile.
I have heard a lot of explanations of twist rate in my day and this I must say has been the MOST simplistic explanation I have heard yet. Too the extent that I had one of my 9 year old shooting students listen to this tonight and she completely understood and expanded on it.... Point being if you don't get it after this explanation, you NEVER will.......
A buddy of mine explained to me just a couple days ago that a bullet is considered "stabilized" when it is rotating through the air at 250,000-300,000 rpm, and this partly explains the different twist rates in barrels.
I really did like the way you explained it. I just shot my very first pistol last week, and I just fired my very first AR-15 today. This video helped me a lot to know my ammo.
Definitely 1:9 for the usual shooter. We all use 55gn stuff for training and ammo stock. Honestly though, doing some math with a stability calc + what others have posted online, the 1:8 will stabilize the 77gn just fine and still have some room for error. The 77gn round is the longest that will fit in an AR mag. What I don't understand is why so many companies make the 1:7 twist barrels.. They're everywhere. One thing that happens when you spin a bullet more than it needs to is that accuracy opens up because it's spinning faster and any imperfections in the bullet will open the group up (very slightly). What also happens is you get more spin drift. The bullet stays angled up at the angle it was shot at why flying down range and it starts drifting right as opposed to a properly stabilized bullet. 1:8 or 1:9. I do 1:8 because it will take any bullet that will fit in an AR mag.
Do you know if there have been actual spin measurements made of the bullet in flight vs twist rate? We know the rifling "affects" the projectile to create the spin but I doubt it actually produces that rate in flight. If it did the bullet would never get out of the barrel. Just wondering.
so 12.5 inch barrel with 1:8 twist, i should still go with the 62 grain ideally? i it was thinking to get some heavier stuff for the shorter barrel, instead should I be comfortable stocking up on 55gr?
I was comfortable with the normal rounds listed but what about the all copper TSX bullets? Since they are longer than the lead counterparts 1 in 7 probably the way to go for most of them?
what barrel is best when shooting a variety of different grain bullets? I'm putting together my first ar but I want one that can shoot almost any kind of bullet.
Thanks for explaining this to me. I knew it at once upon a time and forgot it. I also knew that if I wanted an explanation without the bullshit, that I had to locate you. You do an awesome job and screw those bastards that are hating.
i have a cuestion... here "switzerland" i use the 62 grains gp90 in 1-10 "standart" Twist rate... we know that our sig 550/551/552 can use any Kind of ammo, but not the AR rifle... so what Twist rate are the best for our ammo? thanks and very good explain...
Great video. I've got a 1/8 and a 1/9. Really happy I didn't go with the 1/7 since I only really shoot 55 and 62. Explains a lot! Love your videos even when you talk shit on the ACR ; ) still absolutely love shooting mine from the bench or prone.
Thx, so sounds like the 1:8 barrel is preferred over the 1:7? I’m asking to confirm from your comments - you used “pretty good” as the best performance term for the 1:8 and “OK” as the best term for the 1:7. Doesn’t appear that the 1:7 gets there or do we need to be using heavier than 77 for 1:7?
Football analogy is by far best I've heard. Though the spiral aspect of a throw is basically exactly same concept. And 55gr stabilizes pretty darn good out of all the 1/7s I've had. But just giving you crap. Lol. Great channel subd
So what is your preferred barrel for an ar15? I was looking for CHF melonite treated barrels and found Daniel defense barrels but they are all 1 in 7 twist
Sorry for being so late to the party. Just recently, I've heard it said that 1/7" IN LESS THAN 14.5" barrels will stabilize any weight bullet. Does anyone have good information on such a statement (distances, group sizes)? Never heard that before, and was wondering if anybody else had and knew more.
This question is more about ballistics than long-range accuracy, but does barrel length make any noticable difference in performance? I use xm193 for home defense and have been thinking about getting a 20" upper to get the best ballistic performance out of the round, but I'm not sure of it would make a difference.
***** Yeah, people have told me to look into rounds marketed as defensive loads, but for the price and quality, I think standard 55 grain stuff works just as well, at least out of a carbine or rifle length barrel (pistol.sbr length might be a different story). Thanks for the info!
This channel needs to be more popular, literally the best most straight forward informative gun channel I’ve come across with none of the clickbait stupid fluff
Have you done a video on .308 and 7.62x51? I have received so much conflicting information on the internet and at gun shops. Like an AR barrel is stamped 5.56 you can also shoot .223. If your M1A is stamped .308 can you also shoot 7.62x51? Or is it vice versa? Let me know thanks man
Dan Saracco You can shoot either through your .308. 7.62x51 NATO is actually a slightly less hot round than .308 Winchester. You can interchange 308 and 7.62x51 going either way. It doesn't matter. You can even get away with shooting 5.56 through a .223, but I wouldn't recommend it. It is dangerous. Some rifles the headspace would be wrong and the neck would mash up against the throat and create unacceptable pressures. It just all depends on the rifle.
Very well said video. The twist rate argument, for most people, is nit picky bullshit. Under 200 yards (what most people's AR's are setup for, and what most people would shoot cheap 55 grain ammo for), Federal XM193 groups as well as 2 MOA in my 1/7 rifle. That's pretty damn respectable. Past 300, things really open up. I believe this has lots to do with 55 grain rounds' bad ballistic coefficient, but I have no doubt that the twist rate exacerbates that, just how you described.
Good vid and thanks for putting in the time on them. I agree with the conclusions but not exactly in the same way. The twist rate needed to stabilize a bullet is more dependant on the length of the projectile than on the weight. For a typical lead & copper bullet it's not so much a factor. However, a 62 grain M855 bullet is much longer than an all lead 62 grain and therefore needs more twist to stabilize. All copper bullets (GMX, TSX) are long for their weight and need a faster twist. Spinning faster than needed will cause imperfections in the bullet to influence it's path and spread groups. That's why the AMU runs 1-8" barrels on their match rifles instead of 1-7". I hope this helps and doesn't confuse the issue.
Green tip 5.56 62 grain vs Remmington .223 55 grain. These are at the same price point. I can't get a definitive answer on what twist rate and/or optimal range. Edit: Let me add to that that the green tip 5.56 steel rod isn't perfectly center for each bullet, or so I've been told. At 100 - 150 yards my group on my 16" 1:8 twist almost exactly 1" tighter than the regular 55 grain fmj.
This is all info that I already knew, but I'm surprised how many "gun guys" don't understand this. As with most of my firearms I take a "middle of the road" approach with my ar15s. I shoot a ton of this cheap federal xm855 lc1 ammo. I pay around. 40 cents per round for it, so I can shoot a lot for my money. I like barrels in the 1/8 twist variety be cause it works well for the ammo I have 1000s of rds of and it will also work ok with anything else I'm likely to get my hands on in a SHTF situation. Great video, I really enjoy the content you put out there.
55gr has been killing people just fine for a while man. if you want a little bit more accuracy at distance then yeah you can go 62, but as far as lethality is concerned, 55 is just fine.
Good info.Especially for those who are new to the ar platform.Having been around ak47s and military surplus rifles most of my life just purchased my first ar15.It is a different animal.Do your! research before you buy.Informed decisions are always. best! Once again thanks!
Best explanaton. Ive seen in a while ,.keep it simple. Ill take 1/9 for everyday training,.. it'll go up to 69 gr easily,.. maybe if its a good bbl,(DD)...75 gr. The problem the military had with 62 gr ammo stabilizing was with 1/12 twist bbls I think or thought
SG Brainstrain, it doesn't change it at all. The twist rate is the same no matter what, it's just a matter of how much rifling the bullet comes into contact with.
D Rock 75 If the barrel is 16 inches and you have a 1 in 9 twist rate you get 1.78 twists before the bullet leaves the barrel. Now if it's a twenty inch barrel you get 2.22 turns before the bullet leaves the barrel. Surely that matters in stabilization right?
Yeah for sure. The longer the barrel the more accurate you're going to be. I must've misread as I thought you were asking if the length of the barrel changed the rate of twist.
D Rock 75 no he was matching twist rates to bullet weights. I was wondering if this would change as the barrel got longer. Like could a slower twist rate stabilize a heavier bullet if the barrel is long enough
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The football analogy is pretty good, man. Better than I could explain it to people.
This is the best concise explanation of this topic that I've heard. Obviously, I need to start hanging out with smarter people.
A longer bullet has to spin faster than a shorter bullet to maintain a stable flight profile. Since all three bullets (55gn, 62gn, and 77gn) are 5.556mm/.223" in diameter, heavier bullets are longer than lighter bullets. So, a 77gn bullet can spin at 1/7" and a 55 gn bullet can spin at 1/9" to maintain a stable flight profile. At longer ranges as bullet spin rate diminishes, it's rotational wobble (bullets angle of attack compared to it's spin axis) increases, reducing stable flight profile and increasing MOA (minute of angle) of flight profile.
Great way of explaining this stuff. My AR with a 1/7 twist scatters the lite 55gr round. It loves the 62gr round though, much tighter groups.
1/8 makes em twists like a happy ballerina (sounds the most promising to me so far...)
1/8 is arguably the best
Agreed. It’s the most versatile.
I just love how real this guy is! You had me busting up laughing while learning...... mad respect to you brother. Great video.
I recommended some of your videos to a friend of mine who is new to guns. I like the straight forward no bullshit approach.
I have heard a lot of explanations of twist rate in my day and this I must say has been the MOST simplistic explanation I have heard yet. Too the extent that I had one of my 9 year old shooting students listen to this tonight and she completely understood and expanded on it.... Point being if you don't get it after this explanation, you NEVER will.......
Glimtech Arms im glad you dig it buddy.
Ak keeps it simple always. Great explanation of the twist rate and bullet weights.
Man thank you for always answering my of topic questions. You are da man. Follow you to the end buddy!
Damn dude! I actually learned something on this one. New sub!
great video. straight to the point
Great video as always! Thank you for the info and your time it's appreciated
A buddy of mine explained to me just a couple days ago that a bullet is considered "stabilized" when it is rotating through the air at 250,000-300,000 rpm, and this partly explains the different twist rates in barrels.
Excellent, just perfect! I like your football analogy. For some reason that's when my mind wrapped all the way around what you were talking about.
Great video.. I finally understand the twist rate with recommended grain weight 😊
I really did like the way you explained it. I just shot my very first pistol last week, and I just fired my very first AR-15 today. This video helped me a lot to know my ammo.
Definitely 1:9 for the usual shooter. We all use 55gn stuff for training and ammo stock. Honestly though, doing some math with a stability calc + what others have posted online, the 1:8 will stabilize the 77gn just fine and still have some room for error. The 77gn round is the longest that will fit in an AR mag. What I don't understand is why so many companies make the 1:7 twist barrels.. They're everywhere. One thing that happens when you spin a bullet more than it needs to is that accuracy opens up because it's spinning faster and any imperfections in the bullet will open the group up (very slightly). What also happens is you get more spin drift. The bullet stays angled up at the angle it was shot at why flying down range and it starts drifting right as opposed to a properly stabilized bullet. 1:8 or 1:9. I do 1:8 because it will take any bullet that will fit in an AR mag.
joshv06 dude, im trying to keep this simple and general so the new guys can start on this more easily
Thanks for the vid man, I never quite got it but this cleared it up for me, keep up the good work :)
Do you know if there have been actual spin measurements made of the bullet in flight vs twist rate? We know the rifling "affects" the projectile to create the spin but I doubt it actually produces that rate in flight. If it did the bullet would never get out of the barrel. Just wondering.
so 12.5 inch barrel with 1:8 twist, i should still go with the 62 grain ideally? i it was thinking to get some heavier stuff for the shorter barrel, instead should I be comfortable stocking up on 55gr?
Most of my barrels are 1/7 am i really losing a bunch of accuracy shooting 55gr or 62gr? Or does it not really make a huge difference?
This is so much easier to retain when somebody is telling it to me like I am a complete moron... good info bro
I'm looking at picking up my first AK what would you suggest ? I was looking at the ras47and the c39v2
I was comfortable with the normal rounds listed but what about the all copper TSX bullets? Since they are longer than the lead counterparts 1 in 7 probably the way to go for most of them?
what barrel is best when shooting a variety of different grain bullets? I'm putting together my first ar but I want one that can shoot almost any kind of bullet.
Go with 1/8 for 55-77 gr bullets...but 1/7 if you like extremely heavy bullets 77+ gr.
Thanks for explaining this to me. I knew it at once upon a time and forgot it. I also knew that if I wanted an explanation without the bullshit, that I had to locate you. You do an awesome job and screw those bastards that are hating.
Thanks for the concise explanation and leaving out the extraneous.
i have a cuestion... here "switzerland" i use the 62 grains gp90 in 1-10 "standart" Twist rate... we know that our sig 550/551/552 can use any Kind of ammo, but not the AR rifle... so what Twist rate are the best for our ammo? thanks and very good explain...
62gr 223 bullets prefer 1/8 twist. 1/8 stabilizes 55-77 pretty well...anything heavier use 1/7.
Great video. I've got a 1/8 and a 1/9. Really happy I didn't go with the 1/7 since I only really shoot 55 and 62. Explains a lot! Love your videos even when you talk shit on the ACR ; ) still absolutely love shooting mine from the bench or prone.
What do you recommend for a home defense SHTF rifle?
Colt 16” barrels with a 1/7” twist, that is 2&1/4 twist before leaving the barrel how affective is at a long range target?
Can a 1-9 from a 20 inch HBar (Bushmaster) handle out to 600 yards on a 18x30 target? Not looking of 1-3 moa just hitting the target is all.
I got a AR15 556 with a 1:8 what would you recommend me to use at the range???
Nice job on this video.
Just the info I was looking for. Plain and simple, and in the language I understand! 😁
Thx, so sounds like the 1:8 barrel is preferred over the 1:7? I’m asking to confirm from your comments - you used “pretty good” as the best performance term for the 1:8 and “OK” as the best term for the 1:7. Doesn’t appear that the 1:7 gets there or do we need to be using heavier than 77 for 1:7?
I concur....the football analogy was spot on! Investing in an AR platform soon (H&K likely) and appreciated the info....Bravo good brotha!
It is ok to load green tip ammo 1:7 twist with barrel length of 11.5?
What if you have a 308 rifle with a 1/9 barrel twist what grain will work best
Football analogy is by far best I've heard. Though the spiral aspect of a throw is basically exactly same concept. And 55gr stabilizes pretty darn good out of all the 1/7s I've had. But just giving you crap. Lol. Great channel subd
So what is your preferred barrel for an ar15? I was looking for CHF melonite treated barrels and found Daniel defense barrels but they are all 1 in 7 twist
The absolute vast majority of ar shooting I do is in a non dm role. So it's 55 at 1/9
Sorry for being so late to the party. Just recently, I've heard it said that 1/7" IN LESS THAN 14.5" barrels will stabilize any weight bullet. Does anyone have good information on such a statement (distances, group sizes)? Never heard that before, and was wondering if anybody else had and knew more.
This question is more about ballistics than long-range accuracy, but does barrel length make any noticable difference in performance? I use xm193 for home defense and have been thinking about getting a 20" upper to get the best ballistic performance out of the round, but I'm not sure of it would make a difference.
Inside of a house, no
***** Yeah, people have told me to look into rounds marketed as defensive loads, but for the price and quality, I think standard 55 grain stuff works just as well, at least out of a carbine or rifle length barrel (pistol.sbr length might be a different story). Thanks for the info!
So if im building a ar47 with a 16inch barrel and 1:10 twist rate which would be the best grain for it. Using it for hogs and deer 50 to 150yards
I have ADHD could you please explain it again 😀😀😀😀 just kidding good shit though
What grain should I use in drills easier to find 55gr but I run a 1/7 and use 77gr for defense
This channel needs to be more popular, literally the best most straight forward informative gun channel I’ve come across with none of the clickbait stupid fluff
Great video as always man. I have to ask. Do you think sometime you could do a longevity review of a ddi stamped AK47/74?
I want to
77gr 5.56 out of a 16" barrel with a 1/8 twist. I was looking at the IMI 77gr razor core.
Will solve all your inaccuracy issues immediately
Have you done a video on .308 and 7.62x51? I have received so much conflicting information on the internet and at gun shops.
Like an AR barrel is stamped 5.56 you can also shoot .223. If your M1A is stamped .308 can you also shoot 7.62x51? Or is it vice versa?
Let me know thanks man
Dan Saracco 308 is the higher pressure round. 308 can shoot 7.62x51mm.
Dan Saracco You can shoot either through your .308. 7.62x51 NATO is actually a slightly less hot round than .308 Winchester. You can interchange 308 and 7.62x51 going either way. It doesn't matter. You can even get away with shooting 5.56 through a .223, but I wouldn't recommend it. It is dangerous. Some rifles the headspace would be wrong and the neck would mash up against the throat and create unacceptable pressures. It just all depends on the rifle.
Great video brother. Thank you! Love your vids man.
Twist rate on rpg?
Very well said video. The twist rate argument, for most people, is nit picky bullshit. Under 200 yards (what most people's AR's are setup for, and what most people would shoot cheap 55 grain ammo for), Federal XM193 groups as well as 2 MOA in my 1/7 rifle. That's pretty damn respectable. Past 300, things really open up. I believe this has lots to do with 55 grain rounds' bad ballistic coefficient, but I have no doubt that the twist rate exacerbates that, just how you described.
My AR has a 1/9 twist with a 556 bl what ammo is good ammo for that?
Does barrel length play much of a role? Does this apply to 16" barrels better than say a pistol length 8.5 or 10.5 barrel?
As far as velocity it certainly does
Like the hoodie. Also this video will be a good resource for new people.
Fucking people up with knowledge. Simple and well put. #YouGoGirl
Can you answer for 30 cal or 7.62 twist rates? All I can find is 5.56 charts
This was good, thanks! Don’t know if you were trying to be funny but you had me laughing a few times haha thanks again
Does this info apply to 16", 18", and 20" barrels alike?
william629 twist rate stays the same no matter length of the barrel.
Correct only difference really among those barrels are velocity and what your intending to use it for.
Which bullet weight would you recommend for 1.12 twist rate on my 270 win. For long distance shooting . Thx
Long distance shooting requires heavy for caliber bullets. I'd use Nosler 150gr Accubond L-R with a 591 BC www.nosler.com/accubond-long-range-bullet/
Thanks for helping me understand the twist rates
Thanks your definitely got it lol the 1/9 is honestly the best for accuracy 55 or the 62 grain plus barrel length. Helps. 👍
Good vid and thanks for putting in the time on them. I agree with the conclusions but not exactly in the same way. The twist rate needed to stabilize a bullet is more dependant on the length of the projectile than on the weight. For a typical lead & copper bullet it's not so much a factor. However, a 62 grain M855 bullet is much longer than an all lead 62 grain and therefore needs more twist to stabilize. All copper bullets (GMX, TSX) are long for their weight and need a faster twist. Spinning faster than needed will cause imperfections in the bullet to influence it's path and spread groups. That's why the AMU runs 1-8" barrels on their match rifles instead of 1-7". I hope this helps and doesn't confuse the issue.
Finally someone has explained the twist rate where everyone will know what a twist rate is
So a 1/7 Will throw all three decently within 150yds?
Green tip 5.56 62 grain vs Remmington .223 55 grain. These are at the same price point. I can't get a definitive answer on what twist rate and/or optimal range.
Edit: Let me add to that that the green tip 5.56 steel rod isn't perfectly center for each bullet, or so I've been told. At 100 - 150 yards my group on my 16" 1:8 twist almost exactly 1" tighter than the regular 55 grain fmj.
So what I take from this is that with a lower grain bullet you want a higher (#) twist rate. Am I even moderately correct?
George Ramirez generally, you still need to confirm with rounds on target. but yes
This is all info that I already knew, but I'm surprised how many "gun guys" don't understand this.
As with most of my firearms I take a "middle of the road" approach with my ar15s. I shoot a ton of this cheap federal xm855 lc1 ammo. I pay around. 40 cents per round for it, so I can shoot a lot for my money. I like barrels in the 1/8 twist variety be cause it works well for the ammo I have 1000s of rds of and it will also work ok with anything else I'm likely to get my hands on in a SHTF situation. Great video, I really enjoy the content you put out there.
Thanks so much man, that totally helps!!
is the 55 grain a pee shooter load I have a 1/9 barrel 16" so do you recommend the 62 or 5t
55gr has been killing people just fine for a while man. if you want a little bit more accuracy at distance then yeah you can go 62, but as far as lethality is concerned, 55 is just fine.
thanks man
Cleared up some questions I had, thanks.
Is XM193 the best to stockpile in bulk for defensive purposes or should I be looking for something else?
+SpartanG062 that's the most effective 556 round against people
Are there any particular ammo manufacturers you recommend or does it not matter?
for xm193 I like pmc
Great to know time to find a 1/8 twist barrel.
What should shoot out of my 10.5 1&7 pistol AR..?
Thank you, short and so I can research the facts and get on with my life.
Loved the F-bombs you threw in at just the right times!
Stop blocking the board
Is this chart based on 16" or 20" barrels?
Thanks, brother! I appreciate the info!
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsie Pop?
Good info.Especially for those who are new to the ar platform.Having been around ak47s and military surplus rifles most of my life just purchased my first ar15.It is a different animal.Do your! research before you buy.Informed decisions are always. best! Once again thanks!
Thank u so much. the best explanation on youtube
Great points simplest way explained I've heard
Good analogy with the Nerf ball. Nice job man.
Appreciate the education. Thanks for sharing!
Fantastic explanation, thanks man!!
Amen brother. Grind hard, stay humble.
Best explanaton. Ive seen in a while ,.keep it simple. Ill take 1/9 for everyday training,.. it'll go up to 69 gr easily,.. maybe if its a good bbl,(DD)...75 gr. The problem the military had with 62 gr ammo stabilizing was with 1/12 twist bbls I think or thought
Thank you for clearly explaining.
Good info. I learned something today.
I know this is an old video but how does barrel length change this? if I have an 18 in barrel instead of a 14.5 for example?
SG Brainstrain, it doesn't change it at all. The twist rate is the same no matter what, it's just a matter of how much rifling the bullet comes into contact with.
D Rock 75 If the barrel is 16 inches and you have a 1 in 9 twist rate you get 1.78 twists before the bullet leaves the barrel. Now if it's a twenty inch barrel you get 2.22 turns before the bullet leaves the barrel. Surely that matters in stabilization right?
Yeah for sure. The longer the barrel the more accurate you're going to be.
I must've misread as I thought you were asking if the length of the barrel changed the rate of twist.
D Rock 75 no he was matching twist rates to bullet weights. I was wondering if this would change as the barrel got longer. Like could a slower twist rate stabilize a heavier bullet if the barrel is long enough
Oh I gotcha. Scroll down in the comments a little bit and I think someone answered that. I'll go look the name and put it here in a minute
Subbed straight to the point and what I need to know
Loved it brother thank you for you input
Informative, and hilarious! Awesome!
Thanks. Simple to the point. Got it.
You explained it perfectly thank you.
Thanks. I don't own a rifle yet but I always wondered about what's twist rate, thanks!!
The Nerf ball analogy was brilliant.
Watched this after your gas system video where a guy commented thanking you for not being profane and now I'm weak