To be fair, this kind of outrage should have come out a long time ago when Jeffrey Dahmer show was released because they did the same thing. But because people love the Dahmer show so nobody called it out.
@@nont18411it was called out a lot, no one really cares tho, if a show is good it’s good, regardless of its method of production, it’s sad but there was definitely outrage from the minority who did care, and of course the family of the victims
I'm a "true crime girlie", but honestly, I have mixed feelings about this. Some content creators show empathy and even contribute to the families of victims like Kendall Rae, but most don't, so I can understand the concern. There are also instances where the families of victims get upset with creators for covering their story without permission or even for even getting information wrong, which can sometimes happen when covering more recent cases. For some of us watchers it's not just entertainment but we have a deep interest in human psychology and we do have empathy for victims, so idk I feel like it's a complex topic.
I remember seeing a commercial with the actress who played Gabby in that and she was like "oh I wanted to portray her with respect and love" and I think she genuinely thought that but also...babe you're portraying a woman who was murdered less than a year ago, in a movie being made against the wishes of her family, there is no way to make that respectful.
And her husband didn't get anything if I remember correctly. There's no way his kid was in the same house with him with taped legs, starved and with open wounds and he didn't know about that. How it's called when you pay zero attention to the kids or ignore their suffering? Neglect probably
completely agree but to clarify something D'Angelo said-- she was sentenced to a minimum of 4 years and a maximum of 30 and currently how many she will actually serve isn't known. Utah sentencing laws are sort of odd, in that they get decided by the Utah Parole board more so in real time as she serves, unlike most states. Hopefully she serves all 30!
I grew up in an abusive family and I was also starved and went without for making mistakes. Seeing what she said about her kids needing to go hungry for forgetting lunch at home, is literally the same things I was told. The fact that this wasn't an immediate red flag to the public is crazy.
Oh, people reported her several times. But I think this is one of these cases where white privilige comes into play big time. Child protective services saw a nice, white, clean, good-looking Mormon woman with a big house and an expensive car. They would never think twice that someone like that can actually be an abuser. Imagine the same report being filed about a Black or Hispanic family. I'm fairly certain the result would have been different.
@@lady8jane this definitely has full merit, and I appreciate you adding that to the conversation because it's important and shouldn't be brushed under the rug.
@@ashleeminnow8453 also should be noted that CPS doesn't take reports that come from anyone outside the family aside from family friends or direct neighbours seriously, it gets dismissed as a form of harassment via the internet akin to swatting, as well as making it easier for the families in question to hide evidence the next time a potential CPS visit occurs since they know what to expect (even worse when the children being abused are trained to hide from cops and investigators, eg. The Family, a new-age cult in australia in the 60s that kidnapped multiple children and raised them to believe they were the founder's children, only reason they were rescued was because one of the girls got kicked out and went to the police) There's a very good reason that certain subreddits focused on these families have a "do not interact" rule, very tragic tbh
We were calling and submitting reports for years through the internet, I was personally emailing CPS about it for years since like 2019-2020 nothing ever happened. I just prayed that those kids would make it out alive because the signs were horrible, my mom had a Law and Order SVU type childhood and she was horrified when I told her about Ruby. She was so happy the children got out alive, the TH-cam channel The Misery Machine covers a lot of kid cases and I was so scared Ruby’s kids would end up on it 😢
@EmiL_from_NieR it's heavily discouraged to contact CPS directly if you're not connected to the child (either by blood, friendship, or proximity ie. Neighbours) as its way more difficult to get physical evidence even when the person responsible is sharing them on the internet, more times CPS is called the more likely the abuser gets away with their behaviour
The whole movie is just using real child abuse for profit... and the fact they're ALREADY doing this??? These children are STILL CHILDREN and most likely still processing this! It's so fresh and that makes this even more gross
They couldn't even wait for the youngest to turn 18. And that's STILL too soon and inappropriate- but at least they would be all adults and better equipped to deal with it. Smfh
Another point to this is that remember the poor Turpin children? After all the MORBID MEDIA ATTENTION, they ended up getting effed over by the system and not given any of the funds supposedly donated to them. Absolutely revolting to use children -- really any survivors ever but ESPECIALLY children -- this way.
Not child abuse. TORTURE. She fucking tortured her children. The cops called it "The worst thing they had ever seen" when they contacted the dad about it. There were rope burns that went into the muscle. Experts believe they would have starved to death if they didn't get help when they did. The fact that lifetime is immediately like "Cool beans let's make a movie about this" kind of shows that we've learned absolutely nothing from this and think that milking children for profit is okay
Lifetime made a movie about my family in the early 2000s, I’m so glad the internet wasn’t as widespread because emotionally I CANNOT imagine what these kids are going through, sending all of my best wishes to them
That's horrible to have that happen to you. Is there no legal recourse to prevent people from exploiting tragedies in film or could they sue them? Well, I imagine if there *is* a legal recourse most victim's families probably couldn't afford the legal battle...
My parents definitely have legal recourse to sue lifetime over defamation of character but the people we would being suing over are long dead and it would be very expensive, and they’ve already spent so much effort and money on the original legal case in the first place so it’s just not worth it. It’s a very uniquely shitty situation to be in lmao
Literally every one of these true crime movies I’ve heard of, the family is completely against it and it upsets them. I’m so confused as to why they have no say?
I haven’t had my family be screwed over by Lifetime but I have had TH-camrs and Twitch streamers monetize my situation and make it weird. So my experience isn’t as bad, but I know what it’s like. People assume things that aren’t true, they mispronounce your name, they don’t even contact you to make sure it’s okay. And to an extent, I get it. What happened was interesting, the people involved were interesting. But if it’s going to be talked about, or made into fiction, then we should let the victims make it IF THEY WANT TO. No one is entitled to know the details. All proceeds should be going to the victims.
Nothing is scarier than ruby's actual videos. She got away with hinting towards abuse or admitting to abuse for years, she played her channel straight, she believed in what she said, she was /happy/ to do what she did for that channel. No dramatic lighting, no music, no zoom in shots. Just an evil woman being an evil mother. And publishing it for all to see. That's horror. Knowing that when you're watching her and Jody on the couch, that those kids were in the basement, TERRIFYING. The only reason to make and release a documentary of it within MONTHS of her conviction is to make money. Cash grab 100% what a fucked up thing to do.
I feel like the extended family massively let down the kids. Imagine the abuse getting so bad that they were denied food and water and no one stepped in
I used to be really into Bailey Sarian's Murder, Mystery & Makeup series a few years back. I found it interesting because she would focus on historical murder mysteries, research into the various theories, and give a pretty in-depth summary of events. Plus, I love makeup. I stopped watching a few months in because she started doing stories that were more modern due to people in the comments suggesting them. There was something that made me feel really uncomfortable about listening to stories that only happened a few years ago, and the families of the victims were active on social media asking people to please stop theorizing about their deceased loved one. It woke me up to how messed up it was to find entertainment in the suffering of others. Never looked back.
I've never watched her video's, but just her thumbnails alone make me detest her. Something as frivolous as posing with over the top makeup on really shouldn't be in the same thumbnail as a photo of a serial killer.
Yeah I had to stop watching her too, there comes a point with a lot of them (not just her really) where you can see them shift from "I wanna spread awareness" to "I hope this one does good financially" and I get it they have to make their money because it becomes a career but I think it's a very thin and easy line to cross over..
I never really got into Bailey Sarian, but Hailey Elizabeth does similar content with true crime while doing her makeup. I used to be really into true crime, but I had to give it up. Hailey specifically would CONSTANTLY get facts of the case she was talking about totally wrong, like major points, which seemed incredibly disrespectful. I''ll rarely watch other creators who do unsolved crimes or crimes from a looooong time ago, but I have a hard time being able to respect the people who make content about crimes that happened more recently. It's too easy to cross the line into being unethical, in my opinion, so I overall just gave up the whole genre.
I used to watch her sometimes, started getting uncomfortable with her "this is FUN!" tone, and walked permanently when she did a video talking about a town where a bunch of Black people were slaughtered, and she went right from an "oh, this is sad" tone, to IMMEDIATELY chipper when it was time for one of the several sponsors of that video. When I say immediately, I mean she didn't even have a cut in the video. The ability to go from just saying that several Black families were slaughtered to "And how, time for a sponsorrrr!!!!" literally the very next breath... I didn't finish the video. I clicked out and haven't watched anything since. There are certainly those who treat victims and families with respect, and then there's...that.
what an absolutely disgusting move to make a movie about something as horrible as that and not even _try_ to contact the victims to at least get _permission_ to make it
@@ericaj4494I don’t think that is at all how it works. When something becomes a matter of public interest, then what can you do that does not infringe on rights such as the free press or freedom of speech? If at least one 9-11 victim’s family member says no, should we not have books or films about 9-11? Or about the Menedez brothers, or Tyree Nichols and George Floyd? In some cases it is reasonably ethical to say that one should get permission from victims like Franke children, and I agree. I also recognize that there is no clear and objective line between the crimes of Franke and that of Breanna Taylor (Though I argue one is far more important than the other, that is just my prerogative). We as a society need to be able to freely discuss and write about 9-11, about George Floyd, and maybe about Ruby Franke too? In most cases permission is not a legal obligation, just a moral one. After all, they clearly did not need to ask permission for that Dahmer miniseries or for Ted Bundy.
@@PeripheralVisionary.I don’t think this argument holds up at all & I don’t think that’s what OP meant. Dahmer is dead, can’t get his permission. The victims also were k*lled brutally. However the victims families, oh they were pissed that Ryan Murphy didn’t reach out to them & they should’ve been. Same with the Mendendez brothers - he didn’t reach out so now we have fictionalilzed & inaccurate takes that deeply hurt the survivors families and may even prevent other SA or abuse victims from coming forward as misinformation spreads. George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, their families were INVOLVED in their justice movements and acted as their voice or representative. If a family member had spoken out against using their face for the movement, I think morally they should’ve been removed. Going against their wishes would’ve undermined any progress as well. However, their families wanted that respectful & widespread recognition bc we know how very unlikely it is that black victims get justice from police brutality.
I enjoy true crime, here’s my take. A majority of people do it wrong. Here are things that should never happen in my opinion. 1: Re-enactments of the crime. Just, don’t. 2: “drama” podcast style discussion on crimes. 3: romanticized criminals. Just, why? 4: not THOROUGHLY researching the crimes committed from all sides before reporting. 5: “excitement” surrounding the discussion of these tragic events. 6: changing events and timelines to make it “more interesting” or to change the motive or narrative of the crimes committed. All of these happen A LOT.
Forensic Files is a great example. They invented the entire thing of "re-enactments," but if you've watched the episodes, all of the reenactments are shot in a way to never be direct about the actual actions committed.
I only like true crime about historical crimes. I feel much less guilty listening to someone analyze the facts of a crime that occurred in 1920 (which means there are no people alive directly connected to the crime) than one that occurred two years ago.
I remember watching a Kendall Rae video where she was speaking with the family of a victim, there were phone calls that they were not able to play because OXYGEN HAD BOUGHT THE RIGHTS TO THE CALLS, without speaking to the family of course. Oxygen and lifetime are top tier disgusting. The opposite of victim advocates, they're basically criminal advocates
as a fellow Kendall Rae watcher (one of the most respectful true crime people imo): this happens all the time. the fact that you can copyright(??) 911 calls is already insane to me in the first place.
That is ne of the worst things I've heard today, and I've heard a lot. How is this type of stuff not in the news? How isn't there a campaign shaming these companies?
Both networks are agitprop for women. Someone watching either network regularly will have emotional regulation issues and paranoia. It's not healthy and those networks harm women.
@@flameshade7601 she's great except when she said the guy Jodie killed wasn't a pedo, there's literal evidence that he is, but she called those claims 'sick' and advocated for a pedophile. I stopped watching after that
12:15 there is a very thin line, when you’re watching true crime content, where it feels like you’re learning about cases and real people and then there’s content that makes it seem like a thriller movie which feels and is very disrespectful because these stories are real tragedies that happened to real people.
It's something similar to the separation between something like Forensic Files to the Jeffrey Dahmer show a while back. Forensic Files explains the crimes and the events that occur to figuring out how the law finds the perpetrator. The original series' narrator had this tone that, while nothing special outside of FF, often did more work in making you feel how horrible these crimes were and the people that committed them by doing away with figurative language or podcast-style suspense and tone. While I personally haven't seen that one particular Dahmer show, I find the idea of the show itself, and the whole process it had of "this is why Jeffrey Dahmer acted the way he did" felt...unnecessary. I remember people saying one particular episode was good in making you realize the damage and the pain that Jeffrey Dahmer has inflicted on people and their families, but that's it. If the idea was to make this piece about "why serial killers happen" and you chose Jeffrey Dahmer as the subject, then the idea would have been better in a much shorter and concise piece rather than a True Crime Drama.
I remember buzzfeed unsolved being super popular and looking back, that whole channel was incredibly bizarre… literally two guys cracking jokes about people who have died in horrendous ways
Any space dominated by men is always filled with insensitive comments like that. They're not there to discuss the horrific crimes or giving their respects for victims. They're only there for memes. Such creatures with low emotional intelligence
1:00 Honestly I'd argue it's the reverse, things are going right because people are finally figuring this out. Exploitative true crime is nothing new. If this story had happened pre-1900s newspapers would have been printing gory pictures and gruesome details while the public figured out a catch song about Ruby to be sung in scholyards by children. At the height of true crime comics kids would have been able to read all about it for a dime.
One True Crime TH-camr I do like is RottenMango. She tells stories from other countries, has a team of researchers, handles things sensitively, and donates the money to a charity related to the crime instead of pocketing it. She did have a rocky start but she reflected and found a way that she could actually help. I don’t usually feel entertained so much as really sad and angry for the people it happens to
Oh hell no! I dont know, why I expected this to be about Ryan Murphy's show retraumatising the Menendez brothers. I dont understand, why these producers cant go the "inspired by true events" route, change names and locations and let their imagination fly. Ruby Franke's 2 youngest children have been through enough. 🙅🏾♀️🙅🏾♀️🙅🏾♀️ Edit: I wonder, could judges be allowed to put a "gag order" on "true crime fiction" until the victims turn 18? Bec. what these kids have been through isnt "entertainment", it's a personal tragedy. 🤔
That is what they do, that is how they get away with it. Their whole thing is "ripped from the headlines" and "inspired by true events". That's why they don't bother consulting families
The absolute worst bull here is that the Menedez brothers may have accepted the film if it was respectful instead of fetishizing their ordeal. They said it best when society is still not ready to talk about male victims of sexual violence. Ryan Murphy did not have any respect. That being said, a public interest is a valid reason to argue against gag orders. Is there any difference between writing a book on Ruby Franke and writing a book on 9/11? I cannot say that there necessarily is no value to discussing Ruby Franke, although I think most will be rubbish.
Lifetime and Oxygen are stuck in the disrespectful 90s with their trash content. I commented elsewhere, but remember when Lifetime started production on a Gabby Petito movie while she was still missing?? Not a single empathetic human at that whole company
Absolutely. That's why I recommend people who are interested in a true crime just read an article about it. There are still trashy news sources obviously but at least they're more likely to be at least influenced by journalistic standards.
I kinda agree with you, but both can be true at the same time. Exactly like tv news, considered entertainment, it can be also be informative. All the creators i follow use their channels to spread awareness and try their best to educate the viewers, they talk about the victims with respect and most of the time their videos involve donations to organizations against the same crimes they cover. It's true that there are so many creators that just care about the creepy aspect and have no respect for the people involved, but it's not always like that and true crime can be very a very useful tool.
Yeah, you can see too when they start a channel and go from caring about the victims to just dramatizing everything. One person that came up for me now has a ton of ads and says “heyyyy true crime besties” like- to call someone a “true crime bestie”??? WHAT 😭 I like the people who raise awareness and funds for missing kids and dv situations but like D’Angelo said, it’s pretty depressing.
agreed, so many true crime channels are so insensitive about the way they talk abt these cases. an example is stephanie soo and how she talks about horrible things while doing these crazy mukbangs as if these are things to talk about casually...
@batterybroken that channel has taken everything good true crime channels do (creating awareness, getting people to donate to gofundme's, collecting signatures for different causes, giving families a platform to talk about their loved one, doing fundraisers, creating foundations that works to assist law enforcement, paying for dna-testing, educating people about things like DV etc etc) shat on all of it for money and fame. I don't know what happened to her but there's zero respect for the victims or their families and it gives a real bad taste in my mouth whenever I see one of her videos pop up.
With more than a passing interest in criminal psychology, have found the channel Dreading does a respectable job with covering cases, avoiding sensationalism, no manipulative soundtracks, putting empathy and information delivered calmly up front. - Is about as ethical as true crime gets here so far. But also I like to add Boze versus the World for more energy while maintaining care and consideration with her coverage too. -- That passengers film looked a cheap incurious exploitation though, no interest in exploring the full situation, systems and concerning beliefs/practices within some wealthy white US mormon communities that enabled and allowed such abuse to go on so long unhindered
I like him I feel like so much true crime romanticizes criminals or makes them seem like more interesting and complex people than they actually are, and something about the way he speaks about perpetrators just highlights how average and narcissistic they were which imo emphasizes the hurt they caused.. like “nothing to see here, just an incredibly selfish sociopathic evil nobody who took something they weren’t entitled to because they think they’re better and smarter than the rest of us but OOP- guess not cause they’re in jail 🤷🏻” His commentary on the Mary Kay Letourneau interview is one of my favorites as well as the Ezra McCandless series
1000% how is "true crime" a form of entertainment? (rhetortical question, I'm on the same page as South Park when they did that "murder porn" episode. it's obnoxious amd cruel for people to produce these movies).
@@SkarGig a lot of the times the family members of the victims are in the documentaries. if they are ok with it, why shouldn't we be? also, you could say the same about almost any historical documentaries. they usually deal with war and death or famine or something. should we just not watch those either?
@@ln5757 same. Can’t bring myself to feel as bad about stories where literally everyone in the world at the time is already dead, even if the subject matter is still objectively horrible. Kinda like a “can’t change the past, but can shape the future” mentality, in regards to acc supporting survivors of true crime/fighting so those situations occur less
Hey D'Angelo, great vid. I wanted to weigh in especially because you asked for a discussion. If we're gonna go at Lifetime, we need to hold Netflix to the same standard. I have a friend who wrote an article for Buzzfeed a few years ago, nobody asks these victims' families for permission, or pays anything. That's not a Lifetime issue. If someone gets murdered, it's public domain. I understand that stuff like this is a gripping story, I actually watch it on TH-cam often. One of my favorite creators is a great storyteller named MrBallen, but a lot of his stories end in tragedy. The problem for me is when media companies with millions of dollars come into the picture and hire actors, crew, marketing departments, etc. for murder reenactments. It's really dystopian and gross. Do we need another movie about Gacy, or Dahmer, or Bundy? We all know the story, and it's fucking gross that they hire guys like Zac Efron and Evan Peters to play these disgusting monsters. Imagine seeing your uncle's murder in the Dahmer show, being pushed front and center to everybody in America. I worked with kids and they would even make jokes about Dahmer. FIFTH GRADERS SHOULD NOT KNOW WHO JEFFREY DAHMER IS. But they do because Netflix cashes in and pushes it front and center. That shit happened over 30 years ago and there are countless documentaries/shows/movies about it. Just stop. Ryan Johnson can go away. But it's not gonna change. This stuff is real. My best friend's best friend was killed last Summer in nyc. Cops didn't do anything, and I'm waiting for the documentary or reenactment.
13:12 As someone who has watched true crime for most of my life. I hate any dramatization of murders and refuse to watch those. It’s sick in my opinion. I only watch the true crime documentaries that include the family and also spend a lot of time focusing on the details of the victim. I like to watch those because (in my opinion) it still humanizes the victim and gives the family the chance to control the narrative. The only other ones I may watch are ones from the perspective of the officers but those are usually cold cases. And I like to watch those cold cases because those officers usually stay in contact w/ the family and as a result they consistently talk about the families’ wants and needs during the time. If the victim’s family is not involved in the recounting of the true crime I typically do not watch it out of respect for the families.
yeah, something in my brain feels this like 'duty' to listen to and understand a victim's story. it's hard to explain but it's like, if i, a random person, can think about and empathise with what happened to you, maybe in some magical universe-is-all-connected way, you weren't truly alone in that moment.
I feel like true crime should be like this, none of the DRAMA but more on the facts, interviews, and people's perspectives (and by people, I mean the victims and authorities, not the person quote end-quote reading it through "research" and inserting their own interpretations of the events)
True crime fan here! I have definitely taken a step back from the content over the last year for similar reasons (profiting, explooitative, etc). I will say what initially grabbed me about it was the awareness it brought to things like DV, stalking, etc. Things that women SHOULD be aware of and can try their best to be cautios of and avoid. But for every good piece of media that discusses true crime, there are at least a handful of creators/companies/etc seeing it as something to profit off of.
14:38 I watch some true crime channels, but I’m a little picky. If they focus more on “how crazy” a story or killer is, then that’s kind of toeing a line… when they tell it with respect for the victims, and especially when they promote resources to help the victims, it can be more depressing rather than “sensational” but I think that’s better. It should be about info and awareness and not fascination. I think the most important are the ones that spread awareness about crimes against minorities, that often never get any media attention.
The only True Crime I engage with nowadays is Lazy Masquerade, because he mostly covers unsolved things and things that went under public attention to try and get Justice, or potentially help. I like it when there's at least the chance it could help something be better for the victims.
I agree. I respect documentaries that bring people who worked on the case and are just sticking to the facts versus trying to make it sound fascinating. I respect the documentaries that try to be objective while bringing some nuance and feel like they were well researched. Hate the ones that are just trying to entertain you and dramatize everything.
11:19 I don’t like true crime anymore because now as an adult it feels exploitative but when I was a lot younger I used to feel like I needed to watch true crime to convince myself that my own abuse was real and something that could actually happen to a person. True crime is way too unregulated tho, I feel like there should be stronger laws to protect the victims and make sure the victims and their families pain and suffering aren’t profited off of.
I used to really like watching true crime content (really just two creators, I never liked podcasts or most entertainmenty-style channels) but what changed my mind was when someone I knew was murdered and I kept thinking about how it would sound coming out of a true crime creator’s mouth. All of the little mistakes they made that I gave grace to (mispronouncing names of places, etc) no longer felt like “little” mistakes and I truly recognized the entire unmentioned communities affected by every video posted. It shouldn’t take personal experience to build that empathy but even those creators who I trusted, I could no longer support that. If it’s in video/podcast format, it’s being created for entertainment purposes. My mindset will not be changed.
This! I briefly watched a creator who would joke about mispronouncing names in almost every video, and it didn't feel as cute and quirky as they thought it was. Like, can we at least respect the victim enough to look up how to say their name before pressing record?
@@ktonytbb yes! I don’t do true crime but any time I make a video where I talk about real people I do everything I can to find a video of them saying their name so I know how to pronounce it properly. Or with place names, I’ll never forget one true crime TH-camr (who is usually well respected for her research) talked about something that happened in Greenwich CT, pronouncing it “green-witch” multiple times. It doesn’t take that much research to find out that it’s pronounced gren-ich, which then made me wonder how much they actually looked into the case at all.
@@lmelki89 this wasn’t true crime related but a commentary TH-camr who takes audience requests did a video about this past year’s Eurovision and horribly mispronounced nearly every contestant’s name… I couldn’t stop thinking to myself how embarrassed I would be if I put that out, clearly showing that I didn’t do any research
this happened to me too. the only content i still interact with is those made by the victim's family, like sarah turney's podcast. i wish it didn't have to happen for me to have that change of heart, though. this person wasn't even close to me at all, it was more like their family was close to mine, but it was and is still so horrible to think about. and to see the fallout on the rest of their family... horrible. it's just unfathomable.
3:39 my mom had a doggy daycare I was employed to refill their water and play with the puppies so I think that was pretty ethical I got paid to play with puppies. This however? Not ethical and there is very few ways that this is ethical to make children work.
I have a situationship with True Crime, I love what some creators are doing, spreading awarness towards the victims, working directly with families to help bring attention to cold cases o injustices, but I can't shake the feeling that even if I support only the respectful creators, is still feeding the wrong algorithm
I totally agree with your opinion on the true crime community as someone who used to watch that content a lot. I think there’s some people who do it well and for the right reasons, like Kendall Rae, who donates A LOT to organizations that work to prevent the kinds of crime she covers and has started other foundations of her own. But the majority of creators i used to watch fell off for me when it started to feel like there was a disconnect. A lot of creators seemed to forget that it’s TRUE crime and not just scary stories to tell in the dark.
I completely agree. I love Kendall and the work she does has made a difference. In my opinion as well, she is probably one of the only ones who does it respectfully and to make a difference.
I agree. I had to stop listening to a true crime podcast because it felt like there was a weird disconnect where I was feeling horrible listening to these stories and it was messing with my mental health, the podcasters seemed to just see it as a ‘story’ and not real things happening to innocent people. It was just jarring. So I don’t interact with that media anymore.
Agreed. A distant family member of mine was “off’d” by another family member a couple of years ago. A few channels covered it, and it was so gross the way some of them talked about the victim, and the family as a whole. It just really turned me away from most “true” crime channels, especially when some people were just making stuff up for views
I sometimes watched some true crime videos and didn’t really think about it. Then something happened to me and two friends. I’m so glad police have been keeping everything under wraps so far. I’m scared how that’ll go once trials get set etc. I would be devastated to see our case be covered by a true crime channel. I don’t want anyone to know who doesn’t need to know. Fuck awareness. I already didn’t get a choice in the pressing charges part, I completely understand why people choose not to. The state got to decide that this was too big and awful to not pursue and I get that. But I want to end it there. This whole process has already been traumatic by itself and we haven’t even made it to an actual trial date yet. I guess if other affected people feel differently that’s fine but I feel like unless a true crime creator knows this (and about every single (victimised) person involved) the default should be to just not. Thanks for reading my rant.
Seriously, we're living in one never-ending Black Mirror episode... Thanks for bringing awareness to this, I had no idea they made it into a movie. Absolutely fucked up
12:52 As someone who’s into true crime, I didn’t feel like you were attacking it with these critiques. They’re valid and things I’ve thought before, too.
So I feel like a well-informed source. I'm a survivor of abuse and watch true crime. Tldr: there are channels that do these stories justice and help me as a survivor deal with my own personal demons. There are a couple of channels I watch because of the way they present the information and the work they do. Swope and Stephanie Soo, Boze. Swope because she does the psychology of things. But she is very transparent about the fact that she isn't educated about it. She does bring a crap ton of receipts, though, and is very through. She also says its not drama its dangerous. Stephanie soo is amazing. She is highly educated and smart. She usually donates a portion of her money to a worthy cause. She usually has a trigger warning about the crimes she covers. I feel like she does a good job telling the stories about what happens and the aftermath. The justice or lack of at times. She also covers a lot of korean cases. Some of which are incredibly important to be informed about. Like burning sun, the sewol ferry, and the sampoong department store collapse. Also the nth room. Boze because she also points out the blatant abuse that happens in body cam and true crime situations. Thanks to her I'm better at identifying when I'm trying to be manipulated in my everyday life. I believe Boze did some videos on this case. They all have a good grasp on how terrible these situations are because they've experienced it. My own personal bologna is not the worst. However I was groomed to be abused. I struggle to make better choices for myself because I wasnt taught how to make better choices. Ive had to work hard to get where i am today. These channels give me a safe outlet to work though my trauma. I can turn it off at any point as well. Anyway thats just my thoughts. Sorry for the novel.
You're missing out. Anything based on a true story is nearly always entertaining. It's not even a recent thing, true stories used to be made into movies of the week all the time.
@simashakeri95 whaaaa. I only saw a clip on yt but the comments seemed like the public supported shorter sentences for them bc of the CSA they endured
@@xletragedyx i think a lot of people less familiar with the case came out supporting them nonetheless esp with cooper's acting as erik in ep 5 - but anyone familiar with the case knows how badly he misrepresented a lot of things. also yeah he fully has them kiss on the lips, shower together etc it's very bizarre and unnecessary and clearly just there to get off on ugh.
So I love true crime, haven't watched any in a while, but still. My fav true crime creator is Eleanor Neale. Most true crime creators focus on the murderer/ abuser, but Eleanor always starts the cases talking in depth about the victim/victims. Their life, their interests, their personalities, their dreams, their relationships, she does such a good job of reminding the viewer that they were real people that lost their lives and deserve to be remembered as themselves. Not as just another name on the kill list of a monster
She’s very underrated imo! I went from being interested to actively working in the field and she’s one of the very few I find actively respectful and journalistic.
I think my problem with true crime is that it's always about murder. Show me true crime about financial crimes, ponzi schemes, car thefts, bank robberies, literally any other crime that happened. But it's always about death. That's the problem I have with the true crime community.
There are TONS of those topics covered by TH-camrs, but they're almost never put under the "true crime" label. Vince Vintage makes some pretty interesting ones about heists, cybercrime, etc.
The podcast “Criminal” is always an interesting listen! they usually get different points of views. Experts, witnesses, reporters, and sometimes the criminals themselves. They also talk about advocacy for those serving time and shed light on cases where justice has not been served. You can expect hippos in colombia, bank robberies, and competition cheats
I hate “based on true story” kinda movies bc they blur reality and fiction and that uncertainty makes people move on and ignore the reality and depth of a situation
as someone who recently went through a tragedy where someone i love went missing and was found in a horrifying way, what lifetime is doing is absolutely reprehensible. they're known for their tradwife movies and should just stick to that. profiting off of the abuse of children is morally bankrupt. since that happened to me, i've also unsubscribed from almost every true crime channel except stephanie soo. she and her team are very careful, nuanced, and do everything to stay informed and she puts extensive trigger warnings into the topics she discusses beforehand. her video profits also go towards the families affected and/or charities relevant to the crime (like domestic violence, suicide prevention, etc).
Same, I tried listening to My Favorite Murder and that was the turning point away from the genre for me, hearing two tone deaf women giddily talk about horrific, evil tragedies that affected real life humans made me feel kind of... Disgusted? with myself.
@@cturtles9514it’s really weird. Almost like it gasses them up or something. As someone who used to be into Buzzfeed Unsolved, I’ve really had to write off the entire genre of true crime because the cases were too haunting. Some people are really out here acting giddy over it while making bank 😐
@@cturtles9514I think Stephanie Soo is one of the best people who talks about true crime. She always sides with the victims. Always is serious about the topic. Has information, and translators from different countries. And always ask people to make corrections if needed. And she always to please help donate, to charities, Women’s shelters, homeless, shelters, mental health spaces etc. She also talks about history and mostly stories that people in America don’t see in the news at all. So the awareness is alway the main focus. It’s not just 20 mins talk condense story is usually 2 hours and trying to get things accurate for the viewers. Also even crimes such as scams, robberies and other things are part of her channel
I used to be heavy into true crime until recently when it started affecting my mental health. I've heard things that are so heinous they keep me up at night. I think there's a time and place for these stories but it's easy to get carried away. I still indulge from time to time but I can see why some creators get criticized for being disrespectful, and they should. I will say Kendall Rae seems to be the most respectful when it comes to this genre, her calls to action and work to humanize victims are honestly the most redeeming part of it.
I love Stephanie Soo, she brings awareness to worldwide cases and provides support and donations to victims; as well as a platform for laws to change that support victims
I used to love listening to True Crime Mukbangs until I developed a brain and realized how weird it is. The only person from that genre I now continue to listen to is Stephanie Soo, and the reason for that was she actually listened to feedback. Now, she doesn't do many mukbangs anymore, especially with more gruesome stories. She has them on her podcast channel, Rotten Mango. If she does do any mukangs, it's lighthearted stories, also usually shared by her viewers. She has a team now that helps her do actual and confirmed research, always walks back statements if they happen to be incorrect, and always advocates for the victims. I respect her a lot because she's taken the feedback and actually made changes (instead of any sob story or sorry).
she's one of the few that cover stories from outside the US and also is donating money on every video, when I found out she used to do mukbangs I felt bad watching her but I really like how she changed and is continuing to change and bring awareness to cases that people don't usually know.
yes her rotten mango podcast & EWU (Explore with Us) are the only ones who put the focus on the victim’s stories & not dramatize it in a storytelling/ fantasy type way
I watch a good amount of true crime content here. On one hand, people are clearly watching it and have been since the beginning of time basically. But on the other hand, you really need to do it in such a respectful way that it's hard for creators to keep up with a weekly (or sometimes even less) upload schedule while being ethical. And, it's especially precarious for those creators who choose to cover extremely recent crimes. I mean, they could get information wrong, not have all the facts of the case, or take things way out of context if they're not well versed on the subject matter. Generally, when someone is constantly making jokes and focusing a huge majority of the video dissecting the life and mentality of the alleged/criminal, I consider those red flags. I appreciate those creators who talk about the victims lives and who they are/were as people- that is a green flag for me. Also, you are 100% right. Several true crime content creators who I have watched have talked about the mental toll researching their videos has taken on them, sometimes even tearing up on camera or having to pause to regain their composure. It's weird.
I actually love that someone finally spoke about this. I do watch true crime content, but I do have moments where I can’t support certain channels. I feel like some channels are so much more respectful about it and tell the person’s whole story. And then there’s people who put an ad about a mobile game where it’s a haunted garden mansion whatever the fuck and it’s jarring to go from that ad to talking about how a person was murdered. I commented on this person TH-cam as she’s so huge in the true crime space and Im not sure if anyone agreed with me. I get people want to monetize to make more money to make more videos etc, but it should be done right.
I had to step away from creators like Bailey Sarian and rotten mango for the same reasons: creating what sounds like the “most interesting story” that could be made from peopleS real lives and all of the shameless ads throughout the videos, not to mention doing your makeup while talking about somebody’s life is very… no. Really only Kendall ray remains.
1,000% omg, the one creator that goes “hey true crime bestieesss” like- I skip those faster than ads. 😭 I think I only respect like one or two creators now. (And even then, it’s overwhelming to listen too much 😞)
this is exactly why I've stopped watching Eleanor neale. you're really advertising love and pies??? before talking about real people's real tragedies? ick
I thought profiting off of someone’s likeness without consent is illegal, and considering they literally didn’t know it was happening, are they able to sue? If it’s possibly I hope they get enough money for all of them to live comfortably for the rest of their lives. I feel like Lifetime is hoping the family is too exhausted from the case to sue and that’s awful
The only true crime videos I tend to watch are from channels like rotten mango/Stephanie soo, etc. And that’s because the crimes she covers are crimes against women mostly from countries where they really aren’t getting the justice they deserve and the more awareness spread about the situation the better for helping the victims. Worldwide scrutiny is a thing that has the potential to put pressure on localised court and law systems even in small ways.
i believe you're not 100% correct. what actually makes her channel special is how much attention she pays to victims, how important it is to her team to respect these people and to tell stories not about the tradegies but about the lives lost. she also talks about crimes against children too. honestly, her videos made me so aware about how little protection children have all over the world. i now feel very strongly about children's safety and well-being and about the consequences of committing crimes against them
Stephanie Soo? You're joking right? She would do muckbangs while talking about tragic crimes as if it was juicy hot gossip. She's been called out countless times for being tone deaf and tactless in the way she approaches these topics. She's exactly the problem with this type of content.
Re: true crime. I have a “pet interest” in cults, so I’ve come across some true crime content. For me the distinction of true crime I can support vs the kind I can’t support comes down to the following points: 1) is the documentary/video done in collaboration with the victims and were their boundaries respected? 2) framing: is the character of the content informational and educational, or is it all about being voyeuristic and sensationalist about the trauma of others? Especially in the context of true crime related to cults it’s easy to tell bc if it falls into the former category they will highlight the methods of brainwashing, coercion and intimidation, the gradual increase of all of that, the us vs them mindset, etc. They’ll discuss how the recruitment of unassuming people can be successful, what makes someone vulnerable, where the red flags were showing etc.
Well…I just had a bad start to my day. One of my best friends basically dumped me over text after ignoring me for several days. No hint, no conversation, said I did nothing wrong but just immediately decided to end it once confronted. It’s been a bad day. Safe to say, I’m binge-watching D’Angelo videos and having some snacks as I process and try to take my mind off things. Thanks for the content, D’Angelo 😌
Something like this can be traumatizing, happend to me too, but it helped me realize that they dropped me as a friend not because Something I did, they just needed space.
I was a former true crime viewer and watched/listened to SO much back in 2018-2019. I listened to all kinds of podcasts, some were more serious and some were more "comedy" based (where the jokes were at the expense of the person committing the crime). However, I think what really made me take a huge step back was the coverage of Gabby Petito. Something about watching people treat an active investigation like it was a juicy thriller series truly disturbed me, not to mention hearing her 911 call played on a loop on the news. I even watched someone I followed (who was not a true crime person, just an influencer) tweet out how "obsessed" she was with the case made me feel physically ill. I still listen to the occasional podcast episode here and there but overall I feel pretty grossed out. I think there is a way to handle it ethically that I'm aware some people on YT/other places do (getting the family's permission, interviewing them, etc), but it's not a common enough practice. Lifetime covering a case so fresh that has children involved is just disgusting and I hope the family can take some kind of legal action here.
as someone who was/is-ish into True Crime, i feel like the key aspect to "good" TC as opposed to exploitative TC is respecting and honoring the wishes of the surviving families. when some details, and sometimes some cases all together, don't want to be shared by survivors and their families i think that needs to be respected. there's no shame in being fascinated by the macabre and we must be purposeful in remembering that these are more than stories. these are real people who suffered real tragedy and pain. i guess what i'm saying is to engage with True Crime in a way that is empathy-forward.
Oh D'Angelo you sweet summer child. The Lifetime Channel has been doing this for decades. In the 80s and 90s they made movies about so many high profile crime cases! Family favorites like The Burning Bed, about the first case of Battered Woman's Syndrome, and Small Sacrifices, about Diane Downs who shot her 3 children. That's just two, there are so many more.
yeah, as someone who does watch true crime shows, I tend to watch ones where they make a point to say the victim's names, outwardly say that it is a TRAGETY what happened to them and seem to want to create awareness about trusting the wrong people.. but this has made me think about it a little more. Someone who does tragic stories correctly I think is Kyle hates hiking. A channel who deals in tragic hiking cases, but proceeds from most of the videos goes to local search and rescues. I kind of wish all true crime had something like this.
Dude, when I saw the title I assumed this was another high profile murder case like the Dahmer special or something - when you said 8 passengers I literally said out loud "NO WAY... this JUST happened wtf??!". Those children have been abused and exploited ENOUGH, and to not even ask them about it makes me sick. I'm a CSA survivor and if this happened to me about MY case not even a year after it all came out, I mean I was a child so I couldn't do anything but I would WANT people in my life to fight this tooth and nail and prevent it from ever airing
For the record, the true crime specials focused on murderers is awful too, I just went into this thinking I knew how much I was going to dislike it and was FLOORED with how much worse it was
I've been a true crime girly, off and on, since I was around 10. It started with Cold Case Files, which from what I remember was always about a much older case. They would sometimes have scenes acted out & dramatized to tell the story, and they had interviews with the detectives & loved ones of the victims. I feel like they always honored the memory of the people who have passed. Cold Case Files never felt wrong to me, although it has been a few years since I watched any of it, so I might feel differently now. Idk how to explain it either, but I can just *tell* when a true crime story is being told with respect & keeps the dignity of the victims in mind. I follow a few podcasts & youtube channels that I feel are always respectful. Also most are about cases at least a few years old. Sometimes the stories are too much for my heart & at that point I just turn it off & take a break from consuming any true crime content. I 100% agree with you about this Lifetime drama. I don't think there can be any logical argument in favor of such a show where the living victims are not okay with the retelling and not getting any of the financial benefit from the (corporation) retelling. I feel the same about the Jeffery Dahmer film, so I stayed far away from that too. It's just so obviously disrespectful to the victims to not ask permission to use their real life story, that they will inevitably see advertised . :(
I had a similar experience as a kid with Forensic Files, which always just felt very factual to me. They'd recreate certain scenes of the crimes, but it was always for the purpose of explaining the science that ultimately convicted the perpetrators, it always felt respectful and they let the victims and their families share a lot of the story in their own words. There was another show I'd watch growing up too (ironically on Lifetime lol) called Unsolved Mysteries, and I liked that one if only because showing it on TV might hopefully solve one of those cases someday (which it actually did, I think at least like a dozen ended up being solved with help from the show's viewers). I had to give up true crime in the last couple of years though, I feel like it's just too easy to cross the line into sensationalizing or profiting from others' trauma. It's honestly a lot of work to do true crime content in an ethical way, and a lot of people don't want to put that work in, unfortunately.
I agree, my old headteacher just got jailed in July this year for 17.5 years for crimes against children and there have already been 2 documentaries made about him by the bbc. Honestly it’s unnecessary.
This is absolutely so callous like,, those kids haven't even had the chance to process and heal from this event. It wouldn't be any better if they had, but still. All Lifetime sees is money, I swear
I watched a true crime earlier from Kayleigha about some girls that went missing and the family put up posters, and the businesses and community took them DOWN bc aesthetic. Then when the girls were found not alive, the media was on the family for details. This reminds me of that. No onr cared about the call for help these kids made on a consistent basis, and estranged family members as well. But now that its a hot topic the media wants movies and views. We have strayed from human decency and sympathy andngone straight to, will this trauma make me money? I "enjoy" true crime bc its good to know how some people work and learn from situations we hope to never be in, but I always say " I dont like that people get hurt and I'm here enjoying the documentary wishing there was more to choose from." Bc i like the style, and if it's fake I can't get into it bc i like to know real life things. But most people now see a new true crime doc and get happy or excited and say they can't wait for it to drop, like people didn't get hurt.
That's actually vile that the community took down the missing posters. Like I now feel physically sickened, what kind of person do you have to be to prioritize looks over people's well-being. Those poor girls and their families, I don't even know them but I feel so sad for them.
It is totally valid to not be a true crime girlie - I have to be very careful which creators I support because of this very issue. There's a difference between channels like Fascinating Horror and Coffeehouse Crime that highlight the victims' stories as much as the tragedy, and creators like Lifetime and Ryan Murphy that only see murder as a sensational cash grab. If there are viewers that are interested in learning more about the Ruby Franke case but want to do so ethically, Jordan and McKay are two ex-mormons that covered 8 passengers long before the abuse became public knowledge. They had a livestream with Natalie the Lawyer Chick to help explain the trial, and Jordan herself is a licensed therapist. But I'm also warning you that the details of the case are incredibly triggering and to proceed with extreme caution. You DO NOT need to know the details about the Ruby Franke case to know that these kids will need intensive therapy for the rest of their lives, and don't deserve to have their story told without their permission.
Good news: he got it wrong, sort of! Both women were convicted on the same four counts, which carry between one and 15 years in prison, and they're to be served consecutively. So four years is the minimum, and the maximum is 30 years due to a law about Utah sentencing guidelines. They could end up being paroled. Hildebrandt will probably serve most of her sentence, but Franke may get out for less -- the prosecutor said that if the family are okay with her being paroled at some point, their office won't push to keep her in.
This is why I have so much respect for Stephanie Soo and what she's doing over on Rotten Mango when she's covering cases. I think the main priority of retelling tried cringe stories is to show the utmost respect to the victim and the family of the victim. And making sure you are telling the full, factual, unbiased truth. And Stephanie does that, and brings more attention to the causes. Which is something a lot of these true crime dramas don't do.
I used to watch her videos too but RM just got too dark, I can’t stomach it anymore. However I still watch her other content. I know some people don’t like her but I like that she stopped her mukbang true crime videos and even donates to non profit organisations and other such people trying to help those in need
I fell in love with True Crime when I went through a bad break up and it got me through a lot. It also made me more aware what toxic and DV relationships are and what they look like. It's honestly led me to take a closer view of how i used to receive the LDS Church. From that point, i feel like I've been more aware of who I let into my life now and the possible dangers. However, I have been really disturbed on how people have focused on the drama and grisly elements and how the media has begun to market it. People's trauma is not for our enjoyment. I've actively chosen not to watch some shows because of my views of exploitation. When i consume True Crime now, i go in with the intent of listening to these victims/famililes stories who had their voices taken away from them, these are their stories to tell. This is about them and not a story that we can just listen and forget about.I feel it is my duty and in general, respectful to listen and take what i know from those stories to use for my own safety and procection. I believe that the media and documentaries is important, its just the glorification of the perpetrator
I am grateful for those with nerve to tolerate being surgeons, researchers, rescuers and so forth. I appreciate the exposure to most facets of human experience. Helps perception. As with everything a balance is needed. Capitalism and classism throw off our motivations starting us eschewed, or so I think.
"I don't feel like I have the right to be depressed" resonates with me alot. You can't help but feel awful, but it has nothing to do with you. Kinda feels like you're invading someone's personal hell for no reason other than to be entertained. Stopped watching stuff like that. Felt deeply wrong.
Why would that happen? Plenty of movies and TV shows based on true crimes are made every year. Zac Efron played Ted Bundy a couple of years back and Evan Peterson has played Jeffrey Dahmer.
@@facthunt2facthunt245 doesn't negate the fact that it’s insensitive and just plain on WRONG to even make the movies without the appropriate protocols. It’s not about why it would happen, but why it SHOULD happen.
This was an important story to me along with Gypsy Rose. People view children and property and not people even to today. I’ve felt this first hand and it brought a little closer to see consequences come
I just saw a video @theconsciouslee made on IG/TT where he talked about this (consuming true crime as content). He was quoting a psychologist who said it's a "major red flag" when people watch it to relax. But then she went onto say that it's common for people who've experience trauma to consume True Crime because it's a way to practice processing traumatic information in a safe environment that we have more/all control over. I have a degree in Criminal Justice and I got it back in 2012 lol I went all the way with the true crime fascination to the point where I got a degree in it. I can say that for me it was definitely a coping strategy to process trauma. When you're raised thinking "justice" and "healing" are the same thing, you're already behind the ball.
I remember nicole rafiee talking about how insensitive true crime channels can be to the people involved who are trying to move on. She did mention some do get permission. I don't get how people don't see how messed up it is to talk about someone's death while doing a mukbang video to get views.
True Crime and disrespect are often hand in hand. Remember when they took that guy who had a bomb forcibly strapped to him to get hin to rob banks, and they made a _comedy_ movie out of it? The guy was murdered.
I thought at first it was all exploitative but curiosity got the better of me and over time I found what was worth listening to. I have the type of anxiety that wants to know even if horrific to make use of it for prevention purposes. I mainly watch/listen to Stephanie Soo. She has become a great advocate and regularly donates to the causes, works with people who want cases to being awareness to it. And I don't watch everything bc a lot of it gets to me but I believe it's important to spread awareness and learn from our mistakes and it reflects what we should change from society
I've been a fan of true crime as someone who likes the psychology and forensics of it for a VERY long time now and it's been so fucking devastating to see how True Crime Content has developed. For a long time, the fascination towards True Crime wasn't morbid curiosity but a way to learn how to survive and how dangerous the world is and now all the content is so dramatized and editorialized. It's genuinely crushing. This isn't a TV show, these are REAL people. I always look into the victims and their lives in any cases I look into. I haven't experienced things first hand but my mother had a friend in high school who was brutally murdered and she's still haunted by nightmares from it. How can you have so little empathy??? I feel so SO bad for the kids. My heart breaks for them with how they keep getting retraumatized.
This. I too like the psychology and forensics, and that's where I started as well. It's disappointing when people are out there to exploit stories just for money, but I do like the channels that donate their proceeds to related causes. Or like Kendall Rae, where sometimes she will have a call to action for the audience, like sending Emails or tweets to get officials to reopen cases.
it brings me so much joy to hear you talk about how you've just cut things out of your life and won't cover things that make you uncomfortable. hearing about you not covering cases like this, getting off twitter, etc. like... heck yeah. don't make yourself miserable.
I used to like true crime videos, like from Stephanie Soo And I don't hate those but when I'm feeling down it just gets into my head and I just can't find it in me to watch them anymore unless it's not too descriptive.. I do think Rotten Mango is ethically ok because they reach out to the families and try to go about things properly. But yeah, too descriptive for me.
As a true crime girlie, there are a TON of icky creators and streaming services in the genre. I have personally curated a list of creators that use their platform to help the victims and families of the stories they tell and that donate proceeds to organizations who help solve and support victims of the tragedies they discuss. Gabulosis is one of my favorite for this, her content is beautifully made and takes such good care of the stories she tells, she also tries to get in direct contact with victims families for permission and additional information they want shared. She always has links for donations and partners with companies that help solve cold cases
I personally find that the good of true crime comes with paying respects to the victims while telling the story of what happened without dramatizing it too far, but in the case of monetizing it i dont see it being very ethical unless atleast a portion of the money is donated to a good cause, it just doesnt make sense to actively gain off of someones trauma and life experiences especially if they dont contact them about making said videos and asking for permission to do so
In order for the movie to be made this fast, Lifetime would've had to start working on the movie at most like a month after the story made the news. They literally heard about a terrible and traumatic abuse and immediately thought "wow, this story is so horrible I might be able to exploit this for profit!" I really hate true crime as a genre. The whole appeal is mining other people's misery to gawk at for our entertainment. If it is possible to dramatize a real life serial killer ethically, what is happening with shows like Dahmer is not it.
11:19 I honestly despise true crime. maybe exceptions can be made if there is relevant information to be taken from a case, or if all relatives have decided it’s fine to share or if it’s long gone history and all parties/relatives have passed. But it all just feels odd. What do people gain from watching?
“True crime” includes everything from a primary source about a case to a dramatic (and in my opinion, disgusting) podcast laughing about it. It makes literally no sense to say it’s a useless thing when often it’s the only way victim’s families are able to get awareness, but that obviously only happens when it’s done with real journalistic standards in mind. Most on TH-cam or tv in general aren’t like this unfortunately. Edit because I forgot to add: People get awareness of events, the ability to donate or advocate for better resources in their locality, a way to assist specific cases, etc. It’s existed for centuries in a form as “spooky stories” often to warn kids about a family not trusted by their community or a thing they shouldn’t do, like walking around at night. This is just the most modern form.
I used to be VERY into true crime, but started getting creeped out by the way so many people acted like it was a game or a fun mystery to solve. The last straw for me was Gabby Petito. The woman was actively missing and people were acting like it was a game. I will occasionally listen to stuff put out by Sarah Tierney, but that’s because 1. She understands what it’s like to be the family member of a victim and 2. She actively works with family members of victims. I trust her to remain victim-focused rather that treating stories like an exciting movie. Other than that, I’m mostly done with true crime personally.
I am a true crime enjoyer, and when I look for stories I try to find ones that do not provide sympathy for a killer, or “oh but they were so attractive” I look for someone who regular sites sources, verbalizes them, and typically speaks in a way that does notate how actually serious it was. I.e. doing makeup during true crime seems .. very. Evil to me
as an avid true crime watcher, my reasoning is to hear the victims stories because as a woman I am scared everyday of my life, & listening to what other women have gone through and all the hardships they’ve experienced & survived with all their will, just makes me feel so confident that I will survive as well, they are an inspiration to me & show me that I must hold on no matter what comes my way,,, & on another note on youtube there’s a channel called ‘Explore with us’ (EWU) & they’re the only ones doing it right because they always check with what the victims or their families want or whether they wanna share their stories, & they also get to interview them sometimes so we’re hearing their stories directly & not just ‘he said she said’ stuff
Personally, i think the only perfectly ethical way to consume true crime content is when it is made by or with the victims themselves, or when the crime is so far in the distant past that people involved are no longer around to be retraumatized. I realize thats incredibly unrealistic to expect from the true crime community, though. I think a good amount of time past the crime, compassion, respect, accurate research and delivering information in a way that is not sensationalizing, romanticizing or victim blaming should be the bar none, bare minimum requirements for true crime authors, video creators, etc.
They are literally doing the exact same thing their mother did. Traumatizing them by not only abusing them, but also broadcasting that abuse without their consent to the entire world to make money the kids will never even see.
As a professional true crime story listener I cannot recommend Stephanie Soo's Rotten Mango enough. Her story telling ability brings so much depth to the victims and you feel so connected to them and their families. She does extensive research to bring all points of a story and is commonly contacted by the victim's families themselves for help to spread their stroy. I truly have yet to find a more humane true crime teller than her and her channel
14:15 I think the way some try to help people is by letting us know when to “turn on and off our empathy caps.” Many people do bad things to others as a result of hardships that an audience may be able to relate to, but what helps is letting us know when we should turn off our empathy towards those who choose to hurt others. Good people will find productive ways to deal with their own issues. This includes getting therapy, touching grass, being with friends, moving to better environments, asking for help, etc. People can benefit from seeing the path they should never go towards despite having similar issues. But that’s just what I think is beneficial about some true crime channels, only a few actually are good at doing this.
The general lack of respect for the victims and families involved in real life tragedies is both heartbreaking and infuriating. Those poor kids :(
Also I get that people have to do sponsors and earn but sometimes they try to relate the sponsor to a crime and it comes off rly scummy…
To be fair, this kind of outrage should have come out a long time ago when Jeffrey Dahmer show was released because they did the same thing. But because people love the Dahmer show so nobody called it out.
@@nont18411it was called out a lot, no one really cares tho, if a show is good it’s good, regardless of its method of production, it’s sad but there was definitely outrage from the minority who did care, and of course the family of the victims
I'm a "true crime girlie", but honestly, I have mixed feelings about this. Some content creators show empathy and even contribute to the families of victims like Kendall Rae, but most don't, so I can understand the concern. There are also instances where the families of victims get upset with creators for covering their story without permission or even for even getting information wrong, which can sometimes happen when covering more recent cases. For some of us watchers it's not just entertainment but we have a deep interest in human psychology and we do have empathy for victims, so idk I feel like it's a complex topic.
It makes me think of plagued moth
Lifetime made a movie out of the Gabby Petito case immediately after it happened, too. They have no shame.
I remember seeing a commercial with the actress who played Gabby in that and she was like "oh I wanted to portray her with respect and love" and I think she genuinely thought that but also...babe you're portraying a woman who was murdered less than a year ago, in a movie being made against the wishes of her family, there is no way to make that respectful.
I remember when they made a movie about Lori Vallow, a year after they found the remains.
Didn't they do one on Sandra Levy while they were still looking for her? IDK how they don't succumb to constant backlash
I remember the Drew Peterson movie with Rob Lowe
4 years is not enough for Ruby to begin with
She should serve a LIFETIME in jail... ( get it heh...)
And her husband didn't get anything if I remember correctly.
There's no way his kid was in the same house with him with taped legs, starved and with open wounds and he didn't know about that.
How it's called when you pay zero attention to the kids or ignore their suffering? Neglect probably
They forgot the 0 in 40. Disgusting in levels I can’t fathom.
@@ana-nim He was in a different state with 0 contact for over 12 months. Please do a simple bit of GoogleDehunking! 😂
completely agree but to clarify something D'Angelo said-- she was sentenced to a minimum of 4 years and a maximum of 30 and currently how many she will actually serve isn't known. Utah sentencing laws are sort of odd, in that they get decided by the Utah Parole board more so in real time as she serves, unlike most states. Hopefully she serves all 30!
I grew up in an abusive family and I was also starved and went without for making mistakes. Seeing what she said about her kids needing to go hungry for forgetting lunch at home, is literally the same things I was told. The fact that this wasn't an immediate red flag to the public is crazy.
Oh, people reported her several times. But I think this is one of these cases where white privilige comes into play big time. Child protective services saw a nice, white, clean, good-looking Mormon woman with a big house and an expensive car. They would never think twice that someone like that can actually be an abuser. Imagine the same report being filed about a Black or Hispanic family. I'm fairly certain the result would have been different.
@@lady8jane this definitely has full merit, and I appreciate you adding that to the conversation because it's important and shouldn't be brushed under the rug.
@@ashleeminnow8453 also should be noted that CPS doesn't take reports that come from anyone outside the family aside from family friends or direct neighbours seriously, it gets dismissed as a form of harassment via the internet akin to swatting, as well as making it easier for the families in question to hide evidence the next time a potential CPS visit occurs since they know what to expect (even worse when the children being abused are trained to hide from cops and investigators, eg. The Family, a new-age cult in australia in the 60s that kidnapped multiple children and raised them to believe they were the founder's children, only reason they were rescued was because one of the girls got kicked out and went to the police)
There's a very good reason that certain subreddits focused on these families have a "do not interact" rule, very tragic tbh
We were calling and submitting reports for years through the internet, I was personally emailing CPS about it for years since like 2019-2020 nothing ever happened. I just prayed that those kids would make it out alive because the signs were horrible, my mom had a Law and Order SVU type childhood and she was horrified when I told her about Ruby. She was so happy the children got out alive, the TH-cam channel The Misery Machine covers a lot of kid cases and I was so scared Ruby’s kids would end up on it 😢
@EmiL_from_NieR it's heavily discouraged to contact CPS directly if you're not connected to the child (either by blood, friendship, or proximity ie. Neighbours) as its way more difficult to get physical evidence even when the person responsible is sharing them on the internet, more times CPS is called the more likely the abuser gets away with their behaviour
The whole movie is just using real child abuse for profit... and the fact they're ALREADY doing this??? These children are STILL CHILDREN and most likely still processing this! It's so fresh and that makes this even more gross
They couldn't even wait for the youngest to turn 18. And that's STILL too soon and inappropriate- but at least they would be all adults and better equipped to deal with it. Smfh
Another point to this is that remember the poor Turpin children? After all the MORBID MEDIA ATTENTION, they ended up getting effed over by the system and not given any of the funds supposedly donated to them.
Absolutely revolting to use children -- really any survivors ever but ESPECIALLY children -- this way.
@@mmybickers yes!! Disgusting
@@arby64 exactly :(
Not child abuse. TORTURE. She fucking tortured her children. The cops called it "The worst thing they had ever seen" when they contacted the dad about it. There were rope burns that went into the muscle. Experts believe they would have starved to death if they didn't get help when they did. The fact that lifetime is immediately like "Cool beans let's make a movie about this" kind of shows that we've learned absolutely nothing from this and think that milking children for profit is okay
Lifetime made a movie about my family in the early 2000s, I’m so glad the internet wasn’t as widespread because emotionally I CANNOT imagine what these kids are going through, sending all of my best wishes to them
That's horrible to have that happen to you. Is there no legal recourse to prevent people from exploiting tragedies in film or could they sue them? Well, I imagine if there *is* a legal recourse most victim's families probably couldn't afford the legal battle...
My parents definitely have legal recourse to sue lifetime over defamation of character but the people we would being suing over are long dead and it would be very expensive, and they’ve already spent so much effort and money on the original legal case in the first place so it’s just not worth it. It’s a very uniquely shitty situation to be in lmao
Literally every one of these true crime movies I’ve heard of, the family is completely against it and it upsets them. I’m so confused as to why they have no say?
I haven’t had my family be screwed over by Lifetime but I have had TH-camrs and Twitch streamers monetize my situation and make it weird. So my experience isn’t as bad, but I know what it’s like. People assume things that aren’t true, they mispronounce your name, they don’t even contact you to make sure it’s okay. And to an extent, I get it. What happened was interesting, the people involved were interesting. But if it’s going to be talked about, or made into fiction, then we should let the victims make it IF THEY WANT TO. No one is entitled to know the details. All proceeds should be going to the victims.
Nothing is scarier than ruby's actual videos. She got away with hinting towards abuse or admitting to abuse for years, she played her channel straight, she believed in what she said, she was /happy/ to do what she did for that channel.
No dramatic lighting, no music, no zoom in shots.
Just an evil woman being an evil mother. And publishing it for all to see.
That's horror. Knowing that when you're watching her and Jody on the couch, that those kids were in the basement, TERRIFYING.
The only reason to make and release a documentary of it within MONTHS of her conviction is to make money. Cash grab 100% what a fucked up thing to do.
Random tip, if you put an underscore _ before and after a word or sentence, it makes it _italic._
@@ktonytbbprobably would emphasize _very_ in your reply rather than _helpful_
Sorry hahahaha
_cool_
TIL! this is _very_ cool
I feel like the extended family massively let down the kids. Imagine the abuse getting so bad that they were denied food and water and no one stepped in
I used to be really into Bailey Sarian's Murder, Mystery & Makeup series a few years back. I found it interesting because she would focus on historical murder mysteries, research into the various theories, and give a pretty in-depth summary of events. Plus, I love makeup. I stopped watching a few months in because she started doing stories that were more modern due to people in the comments suggesting them. There was something that made me feel really uncomfortable about listening to stories that only happened a few years ago, and the families of the victims were active on social media asking people to please stop theorizing about their deceased loved one. It woke me up to how messed up it was to find entertainment in the suffering of others. Never looked back.
I've never watched her video's, but just her thumbnails alone make me detest her. Something as frivolous as posing with over the top makeup on really shouldn't be in the same thumbnail as a photo of a serial killer.
Yeah I had to stop watching her too, there comes a point with a lot of them (not just her really) where you can see them shift from "I wanna spread awareness" to "I hope this one does good financially" and I get it they have to make their money because it becomes a career but I think it's a very thin and easy line to cross over..
I never really got into Bailey Sarian, but Hailey Elizabeth does similar content with true crime while doing her makeup. I used to be really into true crime, but I had to give it up. Hailey specifically would CONSTANTLY get facts of the case she was talking about totally wrong, like major points, which seemed incredibly disrespectful. I''ll rarely watch other creators who do unsolved crimes or crimes from a looooong time ago, but I have a hard time being able to respect the people who make content about crimes that happened more recently. It's too easy to cross the line into being unethical, in my opinion, so I overall just gave up the whole genre.
Same here now I only watch true crime when family members+survivors are involved or the host of the podcast is extremely respectful....
I used to watch her sometimes, started getting uncomfortable with her "this is FUN!" tone, and walked permanently when she did a video talking about a town where a bunch of Black people were slaughtered, and she went right from an "oh, this is sad" tone, to IMMEDIATELY chipper when it was time for one of the several sponsors of that video. When I say immediately, I mean she didn't even have a cut in the video. The ability to go from just saying that several Black families were slaughtered to "And how, time for a sponsorrrr!!!!" literally the very next breath... I didn't finish the video. I clicked out and haven't watched anything since. There are certainly those who treat victims and families with respect, and then there's...that.
what an absolutely disgusting move to make a movie about something as horrible as that and not even _try_ to contact the victims to at least get _permission_ to make it
Victim who they KNOW are very much alive!
The audacity
You can't get consent from children so the lawyers said it's ok to move forward it what it sounds like to me.
@@ericaj4494I don’t think that is at all how it works. When something becomes a matter of public interest, then what can you do that does not infringe on rights such as the free press or freedom of speech?
If at least one 9-11 victim’s family member says no, should we not have books or films about 9-11? Or about the Menedez brothers, or Tyree Nichols and George Floyd? In some cases it is reasonably ethical to say that one should get permission from victims like Franke children, and I agree. I also recognize that there is no clear and objective line between the crimes of Franke and that of Breanna Taylor (Though I argue one is far more important than the other, that is just my prerogative).
We as a society need to be able to freely discuss and write about 9-11, about George Floyd, and maybe about Ruby Franke too? In most cases permission is not a legal obligation, just a moral one.
After all, they clearly did not need to ask permission for that Dahmer miniseries or for Ted Bundy.
They didn't ask because they knew they wouldn't get permission.
@@PeripheralVisionary.I don’t think this argument holds up at all & I don’t think that’s what OP meant. Dahmer is dead, can’t get his permission. The victims also were k*lled brutally. However the victims families, oh they were pissed that Ryan Murphy didn’t reach out to them & they should’ve been. Same with the Mendendez brothers - he didn’t reach out so now we have fictionalilzed & inaccurate takes that deeply hurt the survivors families and may even prevent other SA or abuse victims from coming forward as misinformation spreads.
George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, their families were INVOLVED in their justice movements and acted as their voice or representative. If a family member had spoken out against using their face for the movement, I think morally they should’ve been removed. Going against their wishes would’ve undermined any progress as well. However, their families wanted that respectful & widespread recognition bc we know how very unlikely it is that black victims get justice from police brutality.
I enjoy true crime, here’s my take.
A majority of people do it wrong. Here are things that should never happen in my opinion.
1: Re-enactments of the crime. Just, don’t.
2: “drama” podcast style discussion on crimes.
3: romanticized criminals. Just, why?
4: not THOROUGHLY researching the crimes committed from all sides before reporting.
5: “excitement” surrounding the discussion of these tragic events.
6: changing events and timelines to make it “more interesting” or to change the motive or narrative of the crimes committed.
All of these happen A LOT.
Forensic Files is a great example. They invented the entire thing of "re-enactments," but if you've watched the episodes, all of the reenactments are shot in a way to never be direct about the actual actions committed.
I only like true crime about historical crimes. I feel much less guilty listening to someone analyze the facts of a crime that occurred in 1920 (which means there are no people alive directly connected to the crime) than one that occurred two years ago.
I remember watching a Kendall Rae video where she was speaking with the family of a victim, there were phone calls that they were not able to play because OXYGEN HAD BOUGHT THE RIGHTS TO THE CALLS, without speaking to the family of course. Oxygen and lifetime are top tier disgusting. The opposite of victim advocates, they're basically criminal advocates
as a fellow Kendall Rae watcher (one of the most respectful true crime people imo): this happens all the time. the fact that you can copyright(??) 911 calls is already insane to me in the first place.
That is ne of the worst things I've heard today, and I've heard a lot. How is this type of stuff not in the news? How isn't there a campaign shaming these companies?
Both networks are agitprop for women. Someone watching either network regularly will have emotional regulation issues and paranoia. It's not healthy and those networks harm women.
@@flameshade7601 she's great except when she said the guy Jodie killed wasn't a pedo, there's literal evidence that he is, but she called those claims 'sick' and advocated for a pedophile. I stopped watching after that
Like I guess hearing him say r word of a 12 year old is 'hot' doesn't confirm he's a pedo.. whatever.
12:15 there is a very thin line, when you’re watching true crime content, where it feels like you’re learning about cases and real people and then there’s content that makes it seem like a thriller movie which feels and is very disrespectful because these stories are real tragedies that happened to real people.
It's something similar to the separation between something like Forensic Files to the Jeffrey Dahmer show a while back. Forensic Files explains the crimes and the events that occur to figuring out how the law finds the perpetrator. The original series' narrator had this tone that, while nothing special outside of FF, often did more work in making you feel how horrible these crimes were and the people that committed them by doing away with figurative language or podcast-style suspense and tone. While I personally haven't seen that one particular Dahmer show, I find the idea of the show itself, and the whole process it had of "this is why Jeffrey Dahmer acted the way he did" felt...unnecessary. I remember people saying one particular episode was good in making you realize the damage and the pain that Jeffrey Dahmer has inflicted on people and their families, but that's it. If the idea was to make this piece about "why serial killers happen" and you chose Jeffrey Dahmer as the subject, then the idea would have been better in a much shorter and concise piece rather than a True Crime Drama.
I remember buzzfeed unsolved being super popular and looking back, that whole channel was incredibly bizarre… literally two guys cracking jokes about people who have died in horrendous ways
Speaking on diddy. I’ve heard grown ass men shouting “ain’t no party like a diddy party” in public. Like so fucking gross.
Any space dominated by men is always filled with insensitive comments like that. They're not there to discuss the horrific crimes or giving their respects for victims.
They're only there for memes. Such creatures with low emotional intelligence
ugh. nasty 😵💫
I see it as making fun of diddy and his associates, not his victims
Wait you do realize that's probably a joke right, making fun of a freaky criminal rather than his victims
@@amadare9261 yeah, sure... a "joke" said by the same type of guys I hear say all that other type of shit they say...
1:00 Honestly I'd argue it's the reverse, things are going right because people are finally figuring this out. Exploitative true crime is nothing new. If this story had happened pre-1900s newspapers would have been printing gory pictures and gruesome details while the public figured out a catch song about Ruby to be sung in scholyards by children. At the height of true crime comics kids would have been able to read all about it for a dime.
Good point 😔
Ruby ruby quite contrary how does your family grow? With silverbells and shackle-cells, and pretty maids all in a row
@@user-um8zt2ke8ogirl
Imagine escaping the worst abuse of your life and not even a year later someone tries to make a movie about it. Disgusting.
One True Crime TH-camr I do like is RottenMango. She tells stories from other countries, has a team of researchers, handles things sensitively, and donates the money to a charity related to the crime instead of pocketing it. She did have a rocky start but she reflected and found a way that she could actually help. I don’t usually feel entertained so much as really sad and angry for the people it happens to
Oh hell no! I dont know, why I expected this to be about Ryan Murphy's show retraumatising the Menendez brothers. I dont understand, why these producers cant go the "inspired by true events" route, change names and locations and let their imagination fly. Ruby Franke's 2 youngest children have been through enough.
🙅🏾♀️🙅🏾♀️🙅🏾♀️
Edit: I wonder, could judges be allowed to put a "gag order" on "true crime fiction" until the victims turn 18? Bec. what these kids have been through isnt "entertainment", it's a personal tragedy.
🤔
That is what they do, that is how they get away with it. Their whole thing is "ripped from the headlines" and "inspired by true events". That's why they don't bother consulting families
@@meganclow6959 I think, "inspired by true events" stories should be more regulated and come with automatic name and locations change.
The absolute worst bull here is that the Menedez brothers may have accepted the film if it was respectful instead of fetishizing their ordeal. They said it best when society is still not ready to talk about male victims of sexual violence. Ryan Murphy did not have any respect.
That being said, a public interest is a valid reason to argue against gag orders. Is there any difference between writing a book on Ruby Franke and writing a book on 9/11? I cannot say that there necessarily is no value to discussing Ruby Franke, although I think most will be rubbish.
@@PeripheralVisionary. Writing a non-fiction book is different from making a movie dramatised for entertainment imo.
Lifetime and Oxygen are stuck in the disrespectful 90s with their trash content. I commented elsewhere, but remember when Lifetime started production on a Gabby Petito movie while she was still missing?? Not a single empathetic human at that whole company
It's time, TLC needs to be shut down. Most of what they broadcast should have never been allowed, let alone this!
This is on lifetime. But honestly you're absolutely correct. TLC is also a cesspool of problematic crap. Both need to be ended.
TLC used to be truly amazing and genuinely informational and influential. Then the Duggars came along, and the channel went that direction....
The main purpose of true crime is never about ”awareness”, but in fact “entertainment”.
Absolutely. That's why I recommend people who are interested in a true crime just read an article about it. There are still trashy news sources obviously but at least they're more likely to be at least influenced by journalistic standards.
I kinda agree with you, but both can be true at the same time. Exactly like tv news, considered entertainment, it can be also be informative. All the creators i follow use their channels to spread awareness and try their best to educate the viewers, they talk about the victims with respect and most of the time their videos involve donations to organizations against the same crimes they cover. It's true that there are so many creators that just care about the creepy aspect and have no respect for the people involved, but it's not always like that and true crime can be very a very useful tool.
Yeah, you can see too when they start a channel and go from caring about the victims to just dramatizing everything. One person that came up for me now has a ton of ads and says “heyyyy true crime besties” like- to call someone a “true crime bestie”??? WHAT 😭 I like the people who raise awareness and funds for missing kids and dv situations but like D’Angelo said, it’s pretty depressing.
agreed, so many true crime channels are so insensitive about the way they talk abt these cases. an example is stephanie soo and how she talks about horrible things while doing these crazy mukbangs as if these are things to talk about casually...
@batterybroken that channel has taken everything good true crime channels do (creating awareness, getting people to donate to gofundme's, collecting signatures for different causes, giving families a platform to talk about their loved one, doing fundraisers, creating foundations that works to assist law enforcement, paying for dna-testing, educating people about things like DV etc etc) shat on all of it for money and fame. I don't know what happened to her but there's zero respect for the victims or their families and it gives a real bad taste in my mouth whenever I see one of her videos pop up.
With more than a passing interest in criminal psychology, have found the channel Dreading does a respectable job with covering cases, avoiding sensationalism, no manipulative soundtracks, putting empathy and information delivered calmly up front. - Is about as ethical as true crime gets here so far. But also I like to add Boze versus the World for more energy while maintaining care and consideration with her coverage too. -- That passengers film looked a cheap incurious exploitation though, no interest in exploring the full situation, systems and concerning beliefs/practices within some wealthy white US mormon communities that enabled and allowed such abuse to go on so long unhindered
was looking for someone else commenting about dreading! I love his content it is so simple yet impactful and respectful
I like him I feel like so much true crime romanticizes criminals or makes them seem like more interesting and complex people than they actually are, and something about the way he speaks about perpetrators just highlights how average and narcissistic they were which imo emphasizes the hurt they caused.. like “nothing to see here, just an incredibly selfish sociopathic evil nobody who took something they weren’t entitled to because they think they’re better and smarter than the rest of us but OOP- guess not cause they’re in jail 🤷🏻” His commentary on the Mary Kay Letourneau interview is one of my favorites as well as the Ezra McCandless series
“true crime dramas have gone way too far at this point” they always had, (most of the time) honestly. 🙁
1000% how is "true crime" a form of entertainment? (rhetortical question, I'm on the same page as South Park when they did that "murder porn" episode. it's obnoxious amd cruel for people to produce these movies).
and I'm not a fan of the strange shows like First 48 and on and on.
@@SkarGig a lot of the times the family members of the victims are in the documentaries. if they are ok with it, why shouldn't we be? also, you could say the same about almost any historical documentaries. they usually deal with war and death or famine or something. should we just not watch those either?
@@ln5757 same. Can’t bring myself to feel as bad about stories where literally everyone in the world at the time is already dead, even if the subject matter is still objectively horrible. Kinda like a “can’t change the past, but can shape the future” mentality, in regards to acc supporting survivors of true crime/fighting so those situations occur less
@@SkarGig because some of us can't stop staring at trainwrecks
Hey D'Angelo, great vid. I wanted to weigh in especially because you asked for a discussion. If we're gonna go at Lifetime, we need to hold Netflix to the same standard. I have a friend who wrote an article for Buzzfeed a few years ago, nobody asks these victims' families for permission, or pays anything. That's not a Lifetime issue. If someone gets murdered, it's public domain. I understand that stuff like this is a gripping story, I actually watch it on TH-cam often. One of my favorite creators is a great storyteller named MrBallen, but a lot of his stories end in tragedy. The problem for me is when media companies with millions of dollars come into the picture and hire actors, crew, marketing departments, etc. for murder reenactments. It's really dystopian and gross. Do we need another movie about Gacy, or Dahmer, or Bundy? We all know the story, and it's fucking gross that they hire guys like Zac Efron and Evan Peters to play these disgusting monsters. Imagine seeing your uncle's murder in the Dahmer show, being pushed front and center to everybody in America. I worked with kids and they would even make jokes about Dahmer. FIFTH GRADERS SHOULD NOT KNOW WHO JEFFREY DAHMER IS. But they do because Netflix cashes in and pushes it front and center. That shit happened over 30 years ago and there are countless documentaries/shows/movies about it. Just stop. Ryan Johnson can go away.
But it's not gonna change. This stuff is real. My best friend's best friend was killed last Summer in nyc. Cops didn't do anything, and I'm waiting for the documentary or reenactment.
13:12 As someone who has watched true crime for most of my life. I hate any dramatization of murders and refuse to watch those. It’s sick in my opinion. I only watch the true crime documentaries that include the family and also spend a lot of time focusing on the details of the victim. I like to watch those because (in my opinion) it still humanizes the victim and gives the family the chance to control the narrative. The only other ones I may watch are ones from the perspective of the officers but those are usually cold cases. And I like to watch those cold cases because those officers usually stay in contact w/ the family and as a result they consistently talk about the families’ wants and needs during the time. If the victim’s family is not involved in the recounting of the true crime I typically do not watch it out of respect for the families.
Agreed.
yeah, something in my brain feels this like 'duty' to listen to and understand a victim's story. it's hard to explain but it's like, if i, a random person, can think about and empathise with what happened to you, maybe in some magical universe-is-all-connected way, you weren't truly alone in that moment.
I agree, I like your way of viewing it.
I feel like true crime should be like this, none of the DRAMA but more on the facts, interviews, and people's perspectives (and by people, I mean the victims and authorities, not the person quote end-quote reading it through "research" and inserting their own interpretations of the events)
why have you watched true crime most your life thats kinda ofd
True crime fan here! I have definitely taken a step back from the content over the last year for similar reasons (profiting, explooitative, etc). I will say what initially grabbed me about it was the awareness it brought to things like DV, stalking, etc. Things that women SHOULD be aware of and can try their best to be cautios of and avoid. But for every good piece of media that discusses true crime, there are at least a handful of creators/companies/etc seeing it as something to profit off of.
14:38 I watch some true crime channels, but I’m a little picky. If they focus more on “how crazy” a story or killer is, then that’s kind of toeing a line… when they tell it with respect for the victims, and especially when they promote resources to help the victims, it can be more depressing rather than “sensational” but I think that’s better. It should be about info and awareness and not fascination. I think the most important are the ones that spread awareness about crimes against minorities, that often never get any media attention.
The only True Crime I engage with nowadays is Lazy Masquerade, because he mostly covers unsolved things and things that went under public attention to try and get Justice, or potentially help. I like it when there's at least the chance it could help something be better for the victims.
I agree.
I respect documentaries that bring people who worked on the case and are just sticking to the facts versus trying to make it sound fascinating.
I respect the documentaries that try to be objective while bringing some nuance and feel like they were well researched.
Hate the ones that are just trying to entertain you and dramatize everything.
@@gabrielleduplessis7388 exactly! I especially respect the ones that work with the families of the victims
i recommend MercDocs. the cases they cover are always handled with respect and without trying to be “spooky” or dramatization
yes yes yes
11:19 I don’t like true crime anymore because now as an adult it feels exploitative but when I was a lot younger I used to feel like I needed to watch true crime to convince myself that my own abuse was real and something that could actually happen to a person. True crime is way too unregulated tho, I feel like there should be stronger laws to protect the victims and make sure the victims and their families pain and suffering aren’t profited off of.
Technically genuine news reports are profiting off of pain and suffering. That's why legislating profits is a slippery slope.
You might think reverse psychological pedagogy is a fake degree but as a teacher I'm here to tell you we use it every day.
😂❤
9:58 despise and loathing are some good words to start with
I used to really like watching true crime content (really just two creators, I never liked podcasts or most entertainmenty-style channels) but what changed my mind was when someone I knew was murdered and I kept thinking about how it would sound coming out of a true crime creator’s mouth. All of the little mistakes they made that I gave grace to (mispronouncing names of places, etc) no longer felt like “little” mistakes and I truly recognized the entire unmentioned communities affected by every video posted. It shouldn’t take personal experience to build that empathy but even those creators who I trusted, I could no longer support that. If it’s in video/podcast format, it’s being created for entertainment purposes. My mindset will not be changed.
This! I briefly watched a creator who would joke about mispronouncing names in almost every video, and it didn't feel as cute and quirky as they thought it was. Like, can we at least respect the victim enough to look up how to say their name before pressing record?
TH-camrs mispronouncing names also gives me the ick. I mean, come on. Just do some basic research!
@@ktonytbb yes! I don’t do true crime but any time I make a video where I talk about real people I do everything I can to find a video of them saying their name so I know how to pronounce it properly. Or with place names, I’ll never forget one true crime TH-camr (who is usually well respected for her research) talked about something that happened in Greenwich CT, pronouncing it “green-witch” multiple times. It doesn’t take that much research to find out that it’s pronounced gren-ich, which then made me wonder how much they actually looked into the case at all.
@@lmelki89 this wasn’t true crime related but a commentary TH-camr who takes audience requests did a video about this past year’s Eurovision and horribly mispronounced nearly every contestant’s name… I couldn’t stop thinking to myself how embarrassed I would be if I put that out, clearly showing that I didn’t do any research
this happened to me too. the only content i still interact with is those made by the victim's family, like sarah turney's podcast. i wish it didn't have to happen for me to have that change of heart, though. this person wasn't even close to me at all, it was more like their family was close to mine, but it was and is still so horrible to think about. and to see the fallout on the rest of their family... horrible. it's just unfathomable.
3:39 my mom had a doggy daycare I was employed to refill their water and play with the puppies so I think that was pretty ethical I got paid to play with puppies. This however? Not ethical and there is very few ways that this is ethical to make children work.
I have a situationship with True Crime, I love what some creators are doing, spreading awarness towards the victims, working directly with families to help bring attention to cold cases o injustices, but I can't shake the feeling that even if I support only the respectful creators, is still feeding the wrong algorithm
They did this with the Dhamer series. So little consideration for the families of the victims was honestly so disturbing to see.
I totally agree with your opinion on the true crime community as someone who used to watch that content a lot. I think there’s some people who do it well and for the right reasons, like Kendall Rae, who donates A LOT to organizations that work to prevent the kinds of crime she covers and has started other foundations of her own. But the majority of creators i used to watch fell off for me when it started to feel like there was a disconnect. A lot of creators seemed to forget that it’s TRUE crime and not just scary stories to tell in the dark.
I completely agree. I love Kendall and the work she does has made a difference. In my opinion as well, she is probably one of the only ones who does it respectfully and to make a difference.
I agree. I had to stop listening to a true crime podcast because it felt like there was a weird disconnect where I was feeling horrible listening to these stories and it was messing with my mental health, the podcasters seemed to just see it as a ‘story’ and not real things happening to innocent people. It was just jarring. So I don’t interact with that media anymore.
Agreed. A distant family member of mine was “off’d” by another family member a couple of years ago. A few channels covered it, and it was so gross the way some of them talked about the victim, and the family as a whole. It just really turned me away from most “true” crime channels, especially when some people were just making stuff up for views
Kendall really isn’t a positive in true crime :/ she’s not a good person tbh
Kendall isn’t really good tho. There have been a few red flags about her
I sometimes watched some true crime videos and didn’t really think about it. Then something happened to me and two friends. I’m so glad police have been keeping everything under wraps so far. I’m scared how that’ll go once trials get set etc. I would be devastated to see our case be covered by a true crime channel. I don’t want anyone to know who doesn’t need to know. Fuck awareness. I already didn’t get a choice in the pressing charges part, I completely understand why people choose not to. The state got to decide that this was too big and awful to not pursue and I get that. But I want to end it there. This whole process has already been traumatic by itself and we haven’t even made it to an actual trial date yet.
I guess if other affected people feel differently that’s fine but I feel like unless a true crime creator knows this (and about every single (victimised) person involved) the default should be to just not.
Thanks for reading my rant.
Seriously, we're living in one never-ending Black Mirror episode... Thanks for bringing awareness to this, I had no idea they made it into a movie. Absolutely fucked up
12:52 As someone who’s into true crime, I didn’t feel like you were attacking it with these critiques. They’re valid and things I’ve thought before, too.
So I feel like a well-informed source. I'm a survivor of abuse and watch true crime. Tldr: there are channels that do these stories justice and help me as a survivor deal with my own personal demons.
There are a couple of channels I watch because of the way they present the information and the work they do. Swope and Stephanie Soo, Boze.
Swope because she does the psychology of things. But she is very transparent about the fact that she isn't educated about it. She does bring a crap ton of receipts, though, and is very through. She also says its not drama its dangerous.
Stephanie soo is amazing. She is highly educated and smart. She usually donates a portion of her money to a worthy cause. She usually has a trigger warning about the crimes she covers. I feel like she does a good job telling the stories about what happens and the aftermath. The justice or lack of at times. She also covers a lot of korean cases. Some of which are incredibly important to be informed about. Like burning sun, the sewol ferry, and the sampoong department store collapse. Also the nth room.
Boze because she also points out the blatant abuse that happens in body cam and true crime situations. Thanks to her I'm better at identifying when I'm trying to be manipulated in my everyday life. I believe Boze did some videos on this case.
They all have a good grasp on how terrible these situations are because they've experienced it.
My own personal bologna is not the worst. However I was groomed to be abused. I struggle to make better choices for myself because I wasnt taught how to make better choices. Ive had to work hard to get where i am today. These channels give me a safe outlet to work though my trauma. I can turn it off at any point as well. Anyway thats just my thoughts. Sorry for the novel.
2:00 oh my god i A HUNDRED PERCENT agree. making jokes about this is so disgusting tbh
It's the same thing Ryan Murphy did with his Mendez brothers movie Monsters. I refuse to watch these types of movies.
You're missing out. Anything based on a true story is nearly always entertaining. It's not even a recent thing, true stories used to be made into movies of the week all the time.
it's so morally bankrupt to write weird incest fanfic about CSA victims like he's actually such a deeply disturbed individual
@@simashakeri95 💯 Someone needs to check his hard drive 😒
@simashakeri95 whaaaa. I only saw a clip on yt but the comments seemed like the public supported shorter sentences for them bc of the CSA they endured
@@xletragedyx i think a lot of people less familiar with the case came out supporting them nonetheless esp with cooper's acting as erik in ep 5 - but anyone familiar with the case knows how badly he misrepresented a lot of things. also yeah he fully has them kiss on the lips, shower together etc it's very bizarre and unnecessary and clearly just there to get off on ugh.
So I love true crime, haven't watched any in a while, but still. My fav true crime creator is Eleanor Neale. Most true crime creators focus on the murderer/ abuser, but Eleanor always starts the cases talking in depth about the victim/victims. Their life, their interests, their personalities, their dreams, their relationships, she does such a good job of reminding the viewer that they were real people that lost their lives and deserve to be remembered as themselves. Not as just another name on the kill list of a monster
She’s very underrated imo! I went from being interested to actively working in the field and she’s one of the very few I find actively respectful and journalistic.
I think my problem with true crime is that it's always about murder. Show me true crime about financial crimes, ponzi schemes, car thefts, bank robberies, literally any other crime that happened. But it's always about death. That's the problem I have with the true crime community.
death and sex crime. lol. sensationalized topics which get the most clicks!
You should watch the Casual Criminalist! They do have a lot about the murders, but they also do the other stuff haha
Before The Watcher screwed over their fans Mystery Files was exactly this rip
There are TONS of those topics covered by TH-camrs, but they're almost never put under the "true crime" label. Vince Vintage makes some pretty interesting ones about heists, cybercrime, etc.
The podcast “Criminal” is always an interesting listen! they usually get different points of views. Experts, witnesses, reporters, and sometimes the criminals themselves. They also talk about advocacy for those serving time and shed light on cases where justice has not been served. You can expect hippos in colombia, bank robberies, and competition cheats
I hate “based on true story” kinda movies bc they blur reality and fiction and that uncertainty makes people move on and ignore the reality and depth of a situation
as someone who recently went through a tragedy where someone i love went missing and was found in a horrifying way, what lifetime is doing is absolutely reprehensible. they're known for their tradwife movies and should just stick to that. profiting off of the abuse of children is morally bankrupt. since that happened to me, i've also unsubscribed from almost every true crime channel except stephanie soo. she and her team are very careful, nuanced, and do everything to stay informed and she puts extensive trigger warnings into the topics she discusses beforehand. her video profits also go towards the families affected and/or charities relevant to the crime (like domestic violence, suicide prevention, etc).
I'm sorry for your tragedy.
as a parental abuse survivor, if my story was used as a “horror documentary”, pissed wouldn’t even be the beginning of how i’d feel
True crime is incredibly exploitive. I used to be into true crime content, but after a while it started giving me bad vibes and felt so heavy.
Same, I tried listening to My Favorite Murder and that was the turning point away from the genre for me, hearing two tone deaf women giddily talk about horrific, evil tragedies that affected real life humans made me feel kind of... Disgusted? with myself.
@@cturtles9514it’s really weird. Almost like it gasses them up or something. As someone who used to be into Buzzfeed Unsolved, I’ve really had to write off the entire genre of true crime because the cases were too haunting. Some people are really out here acting giddy over it while making bank 😐
true crime is inherently exploitative
I don't know how else to say it
@@cturtles9514I think Stephanie Soo is one of the best people who talks about true crime. She always sides with the victims. Always is serious about the topic. Has information, and translators from different countries. And always ask people to make corrections if needed. And she always to please help donate, to charities, Women’s shelters, homeless, shelters, mental health spaces etc. She also talks about history and mostly stories that people in America don’t see in the news at all. So the awareness is alway the main focus. It’s not just 20 mins talk condense story is usually 2 hours and trying to get things accurate for the viewers. Also even crimes such as scams, robberies and other things are part of her channel
Preach @@enoch2562
I used to be heavy into true crime until recently when it started affecting my mental health. I've heard things that are so heinous they keep me up at night. I think there's a time and place for these stories but it's easy to get carried away. I still indulge from time to time but I can see why some creators get criticized for being disrespectful, and they should. I will say Kendall Rae seems to be the most respectful when it comes to this genre, her calls to action and work to humanize victims are honestly the most redeeming part of it.
Im so glad to see other people who understand all true crime is NOT entertainment, but is purely exploitation.
I love Stephanie Soo, she brings awareness to worldwide cases and provides support and donations to victims; as well as a platform for laws to change that support victims
I used to love listening to True Crime Mukbangs until I developed a brain and realized how weird it is. The only person from that genre I now continue to listen to is Stephanie Soo, and the reason for that was she actually listened to feedback. Now, she doesn't do many mukbangs anymore, especially with more gruesome stories. She has them on her podcast channel, Rotten Mango. If she does do any mukangs, it's lighthearted stories, also usually shared by her viewers. She has a team now that helps her do actual and confirmed research, always walks back statements if they happen to be incorrect, and always advocates for the victims. I respect her a lot because she's taken the feedback and actually made changes (instead of any sob story or sorry).
she's one of the few that cover stories from outside the US and also is donating money on every video, when I found out she used to do mukbangs I felt bad watching her but I really like how she changed and is continuing to change and bring awareness to cases that people don't usually know.
yes her rotten mango podcast & EWU (Explore with Us) are the only ones who put the focus on the victim’s stories & not dramatize it in a storytelling/ fantasy type way
I watch a good amount of true crime content here. On one hand, people are clearly watching it and have been since the beginning of time basically. But on the other hand, you really need to do it in such a respectful way that it's hard for creators to keep up with a weekly (or sometimes even less) upload schedule while being ethical. And, it's especially precarious for those creators who choose to cover extremely recent crimes. I mean, they could get information wrong, not have all the facts of the case, or take things way out of context if they're not well versed on the subject matter.
Generally, when someone is constantly making jokes and focusing a huge majority of the video dissecting the life and mentality of the alleged/criminal, I consider those red flags. I appreciate those creators who talk about the victims lives and who they are/were as people- that is a green flag for me.
Also, you are 100% right. Several true crime content creators who I have watched have talked about the mental toll researching their videos has taken on them, sometimes even tearing up on camera or having to pause to regain their composure. It's weird.
I actually love that someone finally spoke about this. I do watch true crime content, but I do have moments where I can’t support certain channels. I feel like some channels are so much more respectful about it and tell the person’s whole story. And then there’s people who put an ad about a mobile game where it’s a haunted garden mansion whatever the fuck and it’s jarring to go from that ad to talking about how a person was murdered. I commented on this person TH-cam as she’s so huge in the true crime space and Im not sure if anyone agreed with me. I get people want to monetize to make more money to make more videos etc, but it should be done right.
I had to step away from creators like Bailey Sarian and rotten mango for the same reasons: creating what sounds like the “most interesting story” that could be made from peopleS real lives and all of the shameless ads throughout the videos, not to mention doing your makeup while talking about somebody’s life is very… no. Really only Kendall ray remains.
1,000% omg, the one creator that goes “hey true crime bestieesss” like- I skip those faster than ads. 😭 I think I only respect like one or two creators now. (And even then, it’s overwhelming to listen too much 😞)
@@batterybroken totally agree
do you want a medal
this is exactly why I've stopped watching Eleanor neale. you're really advertising love and pies??? before talking about real people's real tragedies? ick
I thought profiting off of someone’s likeness without consent is illegal, and considering they literally didn’t know it was happening, are they able to sue? If it’s possibly I hope they get enough money for all of them to live comfortably for the rest of their lives. I feel like Lifetime is hoping the family is too exhausted from the case to sue and that’s awful
The lack of sensitivity and empathy towards these situations by corpos is appalling.
The only true crime videos I tend to watch are from channels like rotten mango/Stephanie soo, etc. And that’s because the crimes she covers are crimes against women mostly from countries where they really aren’t getting the justice they deserve and the more awareness spread about the situation the better for helping the victims. Worldwide scrutiny is a thing that has the potential to put pressure on localised court and law systems even in small ways.
i believe you're not 100% correct. what actually makes her channel special is how much attention she pays to victims, how important it is to her team to respect these people and to tell stories not about the tradegies but about the lives lost. she also talks about crimes against children too. honestly, her videos made me so aware about how little protection children have all over the world. i now feel very strongly about children's safety and well-being and about the consequences of committing crimes against them
Stephanie Soo? You're joking right? She would do muckbangs while talking about tragic crimes as if it was juicy hot gossip. She's been called out countless times for being tone deaf and tactless in the way she approaches these topics. She's exactly the problem with this type of content.
@@Raven74408 name one video. and check the date of the video if you can
Re: true crime. I have a “pet interest” in cults, so I’ve come across some true crime content. For me the distinction of true crime I can support vs the kind I can’t support comes down to the following points:
1) is the documentary/video done in collaboration with the victims and were their boundaries respected?
2) framing: is the character of the content informational and educational, or is it all about being voyeuristic and sensationalist about the trauma of others? Especially in the context of true crime related to cults it’s easy to tell bc if it falls into the former category they will highlight the methods of brainwashing, coercion and intimidation, the gradual increase of all of that, the us vs them mindset, etc. They’ll discuss how the recruitment of unassuming people can be successful, what makes someone vulnerable, where the red flags were showing etc.
Well…I just had a bad start to my day. One of my best friends basically dumped me over text after ignoring me for several days. No hint, no conversation, said I did nothing wrong but just immediately decided to end it once confronted. It’s been a bad day.
Safe to say, I’m binge-watching D’Angelo videos and having some snacks as I process and try to take my mind off things.
Thanks for the content, D’Angelo 😌
That happened to me too (twice, actually) so I know how it feels and how much it sucks. Sending well wishes, I hope you're having a better day. 💜
Something like this can be traumatizing, happend to me too, but it helped me realize that they dropped me as a friend not because Something I did, they just needed space.
I was a former true crime viewer and watched/listened to SO much back in 2018-2019. I listened to all kinds of podcasts, some were more serious and some were more "comedy" based (where the jokes were at the expense of the person committing the crime). However, I think what really made me take a huge step back was the coverage of Gabby Petito. Something about watching people treat an active investigation like it was a juicy thriller series truly disturbed me, not to mention hearing her 911 call played on a loop on the news. I even watched someone I followed (who was not a true crime person, just an influencer) tweet out how "obsessed" she was with the case made me feel physically ill. I still listen to the occasional podcast episode here and there but overall I feel pretty grossed out. I think there is a way to handle it ethically that I'm aware some people on YT/other places do (getting the family's permission, interviewing them, etc), but it's not a common enough practice. Lifetime covering a case so fresh that has children involved is just disgusting and I hope the family can take some kind of legal action here.
as someone who was/is-ish into True Crime, i feel like the key aspect to "good" TC as opposed to exploitative TC is respecting and honoring the wishes of the surviving families. when some details, and sometimes some cases all together, don't want to be shared by survivors and their families i think that needs to be respected. there's no shame in being fascinated by the macabre and we must be purposeful in remembering that these are more than stories. these are real people who suffered real tragedy and pain. i guess what i'm saying is to engage with True Crime in a way that is empathy-forward.
D'angelo is truly on a roll with all these daily videos and I couldn't be happier!
I know right?😂 We are eating good with daily content 😊💯
@@Docmatema We are! And when the day comes that the streak must end, I will patiently wait for new content with a full stomach.
I think "despise" would be one 9:46
Oh D'Angelo you sweet summer child. The Lifetime Channel has been doing this for decades. In the 80s and 90s they made movies about so many high profile crime cases! Family favorites like The Burning Bed, about the first case of Battered Woman's Syndrome, and Small Sacrifices, about Diane Downs who shot her 3 children. That's just two, there are so many more.
Came here to say this. They've done this forever.
yeah, as someone who does watch true crime shows, I tend to watch ones where they make a point to say the victim's names, outwardly say that it is a TRAGETY what happened to them and seem to want to create awareness about trusting the wrong people.. but this has made me think about it a little more. Someone who does tragic stories correctly I think is Kyle hates hiking. A channel who deals in tragic hiking cases, but proceeds from most of the videos goes to local search and rescues. I kind of wish all true crime had something like this.
0:33 • THAT'S SO INSANE WHAT...
Dude, when I saw the title I assumed this was another high profile murder case like the Dahmer special or something - when you said 8 passengers I literally said out loud "NO WAY... this JUST happened wtf??!". Those children have been abused and exploited ENOUGH, and to not even ask them about it makes me sick. I'm a CSA survivor and if this happened to me about MY case not even a year after it all came out, I mean I was a child so I couldn't do anything but I would WANT people in my life to fight this tooth and nail and prevent it from ever airing
For the record, the true crime specials focused on murderers is awful too, I just went into this thinking I knew how much I was going to dislike it and was FLOORED with how much worse it was
I've been a true crime girly, off and on, since I was around 10. It started with Cold Case Files, which from what I remember was always about a much older case. They would sometimes have scenes acted out & dramatized to tell the story, and they had interviews with the detectives & loved ones of the victims. I feel like they always honored the memory of the people who have passed. Cold Case Files never felt wrong to me, although it has been a few years since I watched any of it, so I might feel differently now.
Idk how to explain it either, but I can just *tell* when a true crime story is being told with respect & keeps the dignity of the victims in mind. I follow a few podcasts & youtube channels that I feel are always respectful. Also most are about cases at least a few years old. Sometimes the stories are too much for my heart & at that point I just turn it off & take a break from consuming any true crime content.
I 100% agree with you about this Lifetime drama. I don't think there can be any logical argument in favor of such a show where the living victims are not okay with the retelling and not getting any of the financial benefit from the (corporation) retelling. I feel the same about the Jeffery Dahmer film, so I stayed far away from that too. It's just so obviously disrespectful to the victims to not ask permission to use their real life story, that they will inevitably see advertised . :(
I had a similar experience as a kid with Forensic Files, which always just felt very factual to me. They'd recreate certain scenes of the crimes, but it was always for the purpose of explaining the science that ultimately convicted the perpetrators, it always felt respectful and they let the victims and their families share a lot of the story in their own words. There was another show I'd watch growing up too (ironically on Lifetime lol) called Unsolved Mysteries, and I liked that one if only because showing it on TV might hopefully solve one of those cases someday (which it actually did, I think at least like a dozen ended up being solved with help from the show's viewers).
I had to give up true crime in the last couple of years though, I feel like it's just too easy to cross the line into sensationalizing or profiting from others' trauma. It's honestly a lot of work to do true crime content in an ethical way, and a lot of people don't want to put that work in, unfortunately.
I agree, my old headteacher just got jailed in July this year for 17.5 years for crimes against children and there have already been 2 documentaries made about him by the bbc. Honestly it’s unnecessary.
This is absolutely so callous like,, those kids haven't even had the chance to process and heal from this event. It wouldn't be any better if they had, but still. All Lifetime sees is money, I swear
I watched a true crime earlier from Kayleigha about some girls that went missing and the family put up posters, and the businesses and community took them DOWN bc aesthetic. Then when the girls were found not alive, the media was on the family for details. This reminds me of that. No onr cared about the call for help these kids made on a consistent basis, and estranged family members as well. But now that its a hot topic the media wants movies and views. We have strayed from human decency and sympathy andngone straight to, will this trauma make me money? I "enjoy" true crime bc its good to know how some people work and learn from situations we hope to never be in, but I always say " I dont like that people get hurt and I'm here enjoying the documentary wishing there was more to choose from." Bc i like the style, and if it's fake I can't get into it bc i like to know real life things. But most people now see a new true crime doc and get happy or excited and say they can't wait for it to drop, like people didn't get hurt.
That's actually vile that the community took down the missing posters. Like I now feel physically sickened, what kind of person do you have to be to prioritize looks over people's well-being. Those poor girls and their families, I don't even know them but I feel so sad for them.
When corporate money hunger goes before Ethics and Moral and human decency.
It is totally valid to not be a true crime girlie - I have to be very careful which creators I support because of this very issue. There's a difference between channels like Fascinating Horror and Coffeehouse Crime that highlight the victims' stories as much as the tragedy, and creators like Lifetime and Ryan Murphy that only see murder as a sensational cash grab. If there are viewers that are interested in learning more about the Ruby Franke case but want to do so ethically, Jordan and McKay are two ex-mormons that covered 8 passengers long before the abuse became public knowledge. They had a livestream with Natalie the Lawyer Chick to help explain the trial, and Jordan herself is a licensed therapist. But I'm also warning you that the details of the case are incredibly triggering and to proceed with extreme caution. You DO NOT need to know the details about the Ruby Franke case to know that these kids will need intensive therapy for the rest of their lives, and don't deserve to have their story told without their permission.
TH-cam can you please HIDE the “TH-cam is Hiding This..” comments 😒😂
Deadass it's not funny anymore
Honestly, 4 years doesn't sound like enough jailtime for Ruby
Good news: he got it wrong, sort of! Both women were convicted on the same four counts, which carry between one and 15 years in prison, and they're to be served consecutively. So four years is the minimum, and the maximum is 30 years due to a law about Utah sentencing guidelines.
They could end up being paroled. Hildebrandt will probably serve most of her sentence, but Franke may get out for less -- the prosecutor said that if the family are okay with her being paroled at some point, their office won't push to keep her in.
currently stuck in a well but can't stop that d'angelo wallace grind
Are you okay?
are you perhaps a goat
is this fr are you good
Do you need rescue?
aespa pfp spotted!!
This is why I have so much respect for Stephanie Soo and what she's doing over on Rotten Mango when she's covering cases. I think the main priority of retelling tried cringe stories is to show the utmost respect to the victim and the family of the victim. And making sure you are telling the full, factual, unbiased truth. And Stephanie does that, and brings more attention to the causes. Which is something a lot of these true crime dramas don't do.
I used to watch her videos too but RM just got too dark, I can’t stomach it anymore. However I still watch her other content. I know some people don’t like her but I like that she stopped her mukbang true crime videos and even donates to non profit organisations and other such people trying to help those in need
I fell in love with True Crime when I went through a bad break up and it got me through a lot. It also made me more aware what toxic and DV relationships are and what they look like. It's honestly led me to take a closer view of how i used to receive the LDS Church. From that point, i feel like I've been more aware of who I let into my life now and the possible dangers. However, I have been really disturbed on how people have focused on the drama and grisly elements and how the media has begun to market it. People's trauma is not for our enjoyment. I've actively chosen not to watch some shows because of my views of exploitation.
When i consume True Crime now, i go in with the intent of listening to these victims/famililes stories who had their voices taken away from them, these are their stories to tell. This is about them and not a story that we can just listen and forget about.I feel it is my duty and in general, respectful to listen and take what i know from those stories to use for my own safety and procection. I believe that the media and documentaries is important, its just the glorification of the perpetrator
I am grateful for those with nerve to tolerate being surgeons, researchers, rescuers and so forth. I appreciate the exposure to most facets of human experience. Helps perception. As with everything a balance is needed. Capitalism and classism throw off our motivations starting us eschewed, or so I think.
"How dare TH-cam hide this from me for x seconds" 🤖🗣️🗣️🗣️
boop beep
"I don't feel like I have the right to be depressed" resonates with me alot. You can't help but feel awful, but it has nothing to do with you. Kinda feels like you're invading someone's personal hell for no reason other than to be entertained. Stopped watching stuff like that. Felt deeply wrong.
hope they get sued and the film gets taken down or something. this is absolutely disgusting
Why would that happen? Plenty of movies and TV shows based on true crimes are made every year. Zac Efron played Ted Bundy a couple of years back and Evan Peterson has played Jeffrey Dahmer.
@@facthunt2facthunt245 doesn't negate the fact that it’s insensitive and just plain on WRONG to even make the movies without the appropriate protocols. It’s not about why it would happen, but why it SHOULD happen.
@@facthunt2facthunt245those crimes happened YEARS ago, this crime just happened in less than a year
This was an important story to me along with Gypsy Rose. People view children and property and not people even to today. I’ve felt this first hand and it brought a little closer to see consequences come
I just saw a video @theconsciouslee made on IG/TT where he talked about this (consuming true crime as content). He was quoting a psychologist who said it's a "major red flag" when people watch it to relax. But then she went onto say that it's common for people who've experience trauma to consume True Crime because it's a way to practice processing traumatic information in a safe environment that we have more/all control over.
I have a degree in Criminal Justice and I got it back in 2012 lol I went all the way with the true crime fascination to the point where I got a degree in it. I can say that for me it was definitely a coping strategy to process trauma. When you're raised thinking "justice" and "healing" are the same thing, you're already behind the ball.
I remember nicole rafiee talking about how insensitive true crime channels can be to the people involved who are trying to move on. She did mention some do get permission.
I don't get how people don't see how messed up it is to talk about someone's death while doing a mukbang video to get views.
True Crime and disrespect are often hand in hand. Remember when they took that guy who had a bomb forcibly strapped to him to get hin to rob banks, and they made a _comedy_ movie out of it? The guy was murdered.
that's awful! making comedy out of tragedy that isnt yours and doesnt belong to you is just sickening
I thought at first it was all exploitative but curiosity got the better of me and over time I found what was worth listening to. I have the type of anxiety that wants to know even if horrific to make use of it for prevention purposes. I mainly watch/listen to Stephanie Soo. She has become a great advocate and regularly donates to the causes, works with people who want cases to being awareness to it. And I don't watch everything bc a lot of it gets to me but I believe it's important to spread awareness and learn from our mistakes and it reflects what we should change from society
I've been a fan of true crime as someone who likes the psychology and forensics of it for a VERY long time now and it's been so fucking devastating to see how True Crime Content has developed. For a long time, the fascination towards True Crime wasn't morbid curiosity but a way to learn how to survive and how dangerous the world is and now all the content is so dramatized and editorialized. It's genuinely crushing. This isn't a TV show, these are REAL people. I always look into the victims and their lives in any cases I look into. I haven't experienced things first hand but my mother had a friend in high school who was brutally murdered and she's still haunted by nightmares from it. How can you have so little empathy??? I feel so SO bad for the kids. My heart breaks for them with how they keep getting retraumatized.
This. I too like the psychology and forensics, and that's where I started as well. It's disappointing when people are out there to exploit stories just for money, but I do like the channels that donate their proceeds to related causes. Or like Kendall Rae, where sometimes she will have a call to action for the audience, like sending Emails or tweets to get officials to reopen cases.
@@nonsequiturillogicalityKendall Rae is really not great if you look into some of her behaviour but I get what you’re saying.
it brings me so much joy to hear you talk about how you've just cut things out of your life and won't cover things that make you uncomfortable. hearing about you not covering cases like this, getting off twitter, etc. like... heck yeah. don't make yourself miserable.
I used to like true crime videos, like from Stephanie Soo
And I don't hate those but when I'm feeling down it just gets into my head and I just can't find it in me to watch them anymore unless it's not too descriptive.. I do think Rotten Mango is ethically ok because they reach out to the families and try to go about things properly. But yeah, too descriptive for me.
As a true crime girlie, there are a TON of icky creators and streaming services in the genre. I have personally curated a list of creators that use their platform to help the victims and families of the stories they tell and that donate proceeds to organizations who help solve and support victims of the tragedies they discuss.
Gabulosis is one of my favorite for this, her content is beautifully made and takes such good care of the stories she tells, she also tries to get in direct contact with victims families for permission and additional information they want shared. She always has links for donations and partners with companies that help solve cold cases
I personally find that the good of true crime comes with paying respects to the victims while telling the story of what happened without dramatizing it too far, but in the case of monetizing it i dont see it being very ethical unless atleast a portion of the money is donated to a good cause, it just doesnt make sense to actively gain off of someones trauma and life experiences especially if they dont contact them about making said videos and asking for permission to do so
In order for the movie to be made this fast, Lifetime would've had to start working on the movie at most like a month after the story made the news. They literally heard about a terrible and traumatic abuse and immediately thought "wow, this story is so horrible I might be able to exploit this for profit!"
I really hate true crime as a genre. The whole appeal is mining other people's misery to gawk at for our entertainment. If it is possible to dramatize a real life serial killer ethically, what is happening with shows like Dahmer is not it.
11:19 I honestly despise true crime. maybe exceptions can be made if there is relevant information to be taken from a case, or if all relatives have decided it’s fine to share or if it’s long gone history and all parties/relatives have passed. But it all just feels odd. What do people gain from watching?
“True crime” includes everything from a primary source about a case to a dramatic (and in my opinion, disgusting) podcast laughing about it. It makes literally no sense to say it’s a useless thing when often it’s the only way victim’s families are able to get awareness, but that obviously only happens when it’s done with real journalistic standards in mind. Most on TH-cam or tv in general aren’t like this unfortunately.
Edit because I forgot to add: People get awareness of events, the ability to donate or advocate for better resources in their locality, a way to assist specific cases, etc. It’s existed for centuries in a form as “spooky stories” often to warn kids about a family not trusted by their community or a thing they shouldn’t do, like walking around at night. This is just the most modern form.
I used to be VERY into true crime, but started getting creeped out by the way so many people acted like it was a game or a fun mystery to solve. The last straw for me was Gabby Petito. The woman was actively missing and people were acting like it was a game.
I will occasionally listen to stuff put out by Sarah Tierney, but that’s because 1. She understands what it’s like to be the family member of a victim and 2. She actively works with family members of victims. I trust her to remain victim-focused rather that treating stories like an exciting movie. Other than that, I’m mostly done with true crime personally.
I am a true crime enjoyer, and when I look for stories I try to find ones that do not provide sympathy for a killer, or “oh but they were so attractive”
I look for someone who regular sites sources, verbalizes them, and typically speaks in a way that does notate how actually serious it was.
I.e. doing makeup during true crime seems .. very. Evil to me
as an avid true crime watcher, my reasoning is to hear the victims stories because as a woman I am scared everyday of my life, & listening to what other women have gone through and all the hardships they’ve experienced & survived with all their will, just makes me feel so confident that I will survive as well, they are an inspiration to me & show me that I must hold on no matter what comes my way,,,
& on another note on youtube there’s a channel called ‘Explore with us’ (EWU) & they’re the only ones doing it right because they always check with what the victims or their families want or whether they wanna share their stories, & they also get to interview them sometimes so we’re hearing their stories directly & not just ‘he said she said’ stuff
Personally, i think the only perfectly ethical way to consume true crime content is when it is made by or with the victims themselves, or when the crime is so far in the distant past that people involved are no longer around to be retraumatized. I realize thats incredibly unrealistic to expect from the true crime community, though. I think a good amount of time past the crime, compassion, respect, accurate research and delivering information in a way that is not sensationalizing, romanticizing or victim blaming should be the bar none, bare minimum requirements for true crime authors, video creators, etc.
They are literally doing the exact same thing their mother did. Traumatizing them by not only abusing them, but also broadcasting that abuse without their consent to the entire world to make money the kids will never even see.
Jordan Peele warned us about this.
As a professional true crime story listener I cannot recommend Stephanie Soo's Rotten Mango enough. Her story telling ability brings so much depth to the victims and you feel so connected to them and their families. She does extensive research to bring all points of a story and is commonly contacted by the victim's families themselves for help to spread their stroy. I truly have yet to find a more humane true crime teller than her and her channel
'The vibes are just off' is all the evidence and data I need
14:15 I think the way some try to help people is by letting us know when to “turn on and off our empathy caps.”
Many people do bad things to others as a result of hardships that an audience may be able to relate to, but what helps is letting us know when we should turn off our empathy towards those who choose to hurt others. Good people will find productive ways to deal with their own issues. This includes getting therapy, touching grass, being with friends, moving to better environments, asking for help, etc. People can benefit from seeing the path they should never go towards despite having similar issues.
But that’s just what I think is beneficial about some true crime channels, only a few actually are good at doing this.