ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- EP. 57 - In this video we tackle a customer fitting where not only is the customer loosing distance with their irons, but they were also hitting that dreaded Moon Ball, and the solution we moved them into just might surprise you as it came down to the brand new Titleist T100, and the Callaway Apex Pro irons. So if you ever wanted to know just how good of a golfer do you really need to be to move into a Players style iron then this is a great example of how you just might be better then what you think.
Timeline:
0:00 - Start
1:16 - Welcome
1:42 - Player Profile
3:06 - Callaway Apex Pro Walkthrough
5:14 - Titleist T100 Walkthrough
7:14 - Build Specs
8:00 - Baseline Tracers Both Clubs
8:50 - Compare Tab
9:28 - Apex Pro Data Walkthrough
12:54 - T100 and Apex Pro Data Deep Dive
15:42 - Final Recommendation
16:09 - Closing Remarks
Video Release Schedule:
Right now we are following a twice a month release schedule as we are currently working on a couple of big projects here at the Golfshop, and our goal to ramp backup will resume to weekly releases, and perhaps twice a week once they have been completed.
More About Us:
We've been building and fitting clubs for the better part of 13 years, and what once started out in the basement of our house has now turned into a Professional Club Fitting business that rivals the likes of some of the more notable ranked Club Fitting Companies out there like: TXG, Club Champion, Golftec, TrueSpec, and 2nd Swing to just name a few.
Current Fitting Matrix:
Callaway, Cobra, Cleveland, Mizuno, Miura, Ping, PXG, Srixon, Taylormade. and Titleist.
Website: www.swingfit.net.
Instagram: / swingfit_studios
TH-cam channels we proudly support:
TXG, James Robinson, MyGolfSpy, Alex Etches, Rick Shiels, Peter Finch, Mark Crossfield, Cogorno Golf, Top Speed Golf, Wisdom in Golf, and Mr. Short Game himself.
Questions:
We respond to every question within 24 hours, so if you have any questions about todays video then just leave your comments in the remarks.
Feedback: We welcome all Feedback and suggestions.
#swingfit #playbettergolf #clubfitting #clubbuilding #dontguessgetfit #golf #doityourself - กีฬา
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Man you know your stuff, this is exactly what I was/am doing with my irons. Just have to say the T100 are like butter I'm a 13 handicapper and they can be played. Great video.
Thanks for the feedback and sharing your experience.
This is the exact club comparison I wanted. Great breakdown - thanks!
Awesome, thanks for sharing hope it helped.
Great work! I’m a fan of TXG channel but your right there with them!
Ian has been a good friend and an even better mentor. Thanks for the kind words.
Fantastic timing. Just came back from a fit from Titleist Canada, north of Toronto, and my crazy forward shaft lean (hockey and tennis player), was giving me at 82mph swing speed, a 19-degree launch, 75 peak height (off grass), with a 1.43 smash factor (radar), 2 in to out, 5 down, using a KBS $-taper light stiff, a 170 carry with 5200 spin with the T100S and similar but very slightly higher peak height, with the T200. Ended up with a combo set of T100S (Gap _W @47, 9-iron @41, 8-iron @36) and T200 (7-iron @31, 6-iron @27, 4-iron @23). So that's (47, 41, 36, 31, 27, 23) with carries, based on old irons with same specs (133, ..., 197). I like to carry 6 irons to give me another headcover in the bag and 3 wedges. For me, being an Original Year 2008 AP2 player, these new T100(s) are tiny compared to my AP2 - the Titleist guy actually said that they want all the Tour guys using T100 if they aren't using blades - sounds like the CB may be about to die. Love the content.
Thanks for sharing and the kind words.
I’ve just been through exactly the same process I’m exactly the same age as that customer and I have ended up with the same dynamic loft problems and I’ve been working on it for a year and it’s finally got a bit better and I ended up getting fitted into this same Iron
Thanks for sharing, such a really good iron.
Thanks for the video
Good job of explaining the difference Between clubs John
Thanks for the feedback and support
Fantastic breakdown of numbers I appreciate that
Thanks for the feedback and kind words.
just ordered my apex pros this past weekend as an upgrade from my x22 tours - im a 12 handicap that was mostly looking for more consistency and distance control and the apex was giving me better spin numbers and a steeper descent angle so i felt i could stop shots at a specific distance better with the apex - plus the ball just jumps off the face contact is so soft but still delivers feedback theyre a treat to hit the feeling is amazing when you hit it pure
The biggest difference for me is actually going to be the shaft - i bought my x22s used when i was in high school - im 5'5" so I should be playing a -.5" shaft - but when i went to get fit for the pros i found out my irons ive had were +.5"!! So i feel like the shaft change is going to have more of an impact than the club head on my consistency
Thanks for sharing I believe the Apex irons are still going to be a strong contender this year, I love the smaller foot print and it does pack some power with a more traditional loft at that as well.
I just got fitting today and was battling between these two clubs. The Apex Pro won in almost every category for me as far as ball speed, smash factor, and carry. I am looking for a reason to go with the less improving T100 for me, but everything points to the Callaway. Seems like I am not the only one with this same predicament. I ordered the Apex Pro. Now need to see if they show up on the course.
They still continue to be a good head to head for many of my customers, thanks for sharing and I’m sure you will be happy.
Was hoping to the T100S since I ordered mine about 1 month ago. My numbers are really similar to the guy you fit in this video too.
We didn’t have the t100s at the time of filming and the customer is going to wait until we do get just to make sure. If I we’re a betting man I’m pretty sure the 100s might be a good fit…
@@SwingFit Thanks for your response.
Love the breakdown. This customer was delivering too much loft and super shallow, what would you look at for the opposite? On the steeper side (4-5 down) and really de-lofted (22 dynamic at 33 static).
Anything north of 5 degrees down would be considered steep, and Dynamic loft that is -10 or more from that of static loft unless you are swinging the club like Bryson.
@@SwingFit what are some iron heads that you have seen work for better players that are steep (-6 AOA), low launch angle (14.5), also struggle with peak height (90ft) and descent angle (45)? These are average numbers with my ping s55 irons.
T100 is a beautiful iron but ZX7 and i59 were more forgiving and the bounce and soles worked better for me. I'm off 12. Just a lot of fantastic options for mid cappers.
Couldn’t agree more it’s like splitting hairs.
Amazing video! Although why didn’t you put him into a heavier shaft? Like DG S400 or Project X LS/LZ or KBS Tour? I know 5 grams might not sound like much to an average golfer but fitters like yourself know how a small variable can make a huge impact! Again amazing video, I learned a lot, and you are a great fitter! Thank you
For sure won’t argue the value of weight, flex or bend profile, the lZ has a unique bend profile for sure and with this customer delivery likely would have introduced my toe droop at impact, and LS could have been a possibility but only if we dropped down in flex as it is a little stiffer from handle to tip. thanks for sharing and your support
@@SwingFit I figured that was probably the case. Keep up the hard work brother!
As ever many thanks for a thought provoking fitting vid.
It will be interesting to see what numbers the customer gets once he has reshaped his swing with his swing coach.
Quick question, would changing to a heavier shaft weight help reduce the launch angle and peak height numbers?
Sup bandittttt!
@@zacharymilos392 Zach my friend how are you doing?
@@banditbaker1675 I'm good sir, hope this are well in your side of the pond
@@zacharymilos392 That's good to hear👍
Apart from the UK being in chaos due to Brexit and a corrupt & incompetent government, I'm ok thanks👍
Take care & stay healthy
I’ve the apex pro 3 months, played nothing but titleist beforehand. Find them unbelievably forgiving and at least 1 to 1.5 clubs longer the my last 718 ap2’s plus they look fantastic. On the negative I find that there appears to be more offset and this offset seams to differ club to club down through the set. I also found that the turf interaction isn’t just as smooth as my last ap’s. But most of all I definitely have have had a few flyers from the apex pro’s like airmailing greens by 10 to 15 yards which is sending me back towards changing to the t100. The flyers could be down to me as I’m only a 4 handicap, Anyone noticed the odd flyer from the apex?
Have had the AP Pros for 4 months. Have not had any flyers at all. The short irons in particular are the best I have used and I seem to be more consistent.
I have tested the new Titleist at The Titleist fit centre and it really is a toss up between the two.
Just a shame they will not allow a Callaway near the Titleist centre so I could at least compare.
I vary around 5 - 6 and dont think either club will make a great difference to my game but the Callaway do feel lovely..using DG 200 shafts.
No flyers from the Apex Pro for me. I'm a pretty good ball striker
nice!!
Just had another look at this video. Really interesting. But I’m curious to know why you picked the lower descent angle as the winner (51 preferred to 52)
Great question so it really comes down to having a balanced ball flight with as many numbers as we possibly can in the optimum ranges with distance being one of those. And here the price of admission is 47, and in both of these situations we had plenty of room to work with, so even if the number was still say 50 or 49 I still likely would have chosen this over the other as it just checked more boxes. Thanks for asking.
I think this suggests the T100 was ballooning a bit
Great comparison
I’m in the market to be fitted for new itons, love the thin top line of the titleist
Where are you located.
We are located in bunker hill wv it’s just outside of Wash. DC
did you mitigate the slight push tendency by building his clubs a deg or two more up right to bring the average grouping more to the left? Thx!
No lie change but rathe how the head and shaft worked together, there was significantly less toe droop with the one…
I’m curious in this situation.... would a game improvement iron with a stronger loft be a possibility for your customer with his same swing he has ?
I’m Not saying that trying to improve your swing technique is not important just curious. Because I’m sure that some big box stores fitters would try to recommend to customers buying stronger lofted clubs in a fitting other than trying to work on his swing.
Yes this would indeed be a legitimate possibility, but I believe the customer would be back next summer once he resolved his technique challenges as the stronger lofted club would no longer be a good fit. This is what I would hope that more fitters would recommend against but I understand some establishments built a model where they don’t mind selling customers new clubs every year, but I can say I’m not one of them…
@@SwingFit As a fitter, I can say you made a good call not going the game improvement route, all you need is a low cg club adding more height, which is who is generally playing a gi iron, when your trying to decrease height. I was wondering why you didn't try the T100S, should drop height and spin!?!?
Thanks for the video :)
Would regular Ctaper be a better option due to lower launching characteristics? Or was the customer keen on lighter shaft?
I’m similar SS (little bit faster)… currently Mizuno mp67 DG S300 (36 degree 7 iron) is launching way too high for my liking (22-24). Im considering t100 with ctaper x 130 vs project x 6.5 (both launching 17-18 range…) I don’t know my angle of attack is though. Any thoughts? Tips? Thanks
This customer needed the lighter shaft for sure, now in regards to your question of the two I’ve found the px shafts to launch a tad higher then the C taper big boys. And if you are a heavy loader then without question go with the c-tapers.
@@SwingFit thanks for your speedy response :).. I am a heavy loader. Keen to make sure spin stays mid 6 to 7 (I think px spun more than ctaper). Does C taper have higher balance point? Making it feel similar weight as px even with extra 5g? But I do wonder if a lighter shaft will be worth exploring for me also. I will be having another fitting before I pull the trigger. Ctaper light is on my list to try.. any other shafts you recommend trying? Thinking my 3 iron will be a t200 with hzdous black RDX X or ventus black 6x shaft (have 6tx on my driver atm)... Thanks again.
@@lakmalliyanage4935 I would say for sure give them a try and if you are loading them pretty dang on good then a potential alternative shaft just might be the PX LS shaft I think it really falls in between the px and the C taper…
@@SwingFit thanks heaps for all the responses. Keep up the awesome work. Stay safe 👍🏾
3:04 T100 is not a players distance iron. 34° as you mentioned, with "normal spin" when propel fit. (as opposed to ZX7 and such). The Apex Pro were disqualified in my testing based on the loud artificial clicky sound that everyone is complaining about in this head.
Won’t argue the Apex feedback at all, but for what it’s worth the better players I’ve put into the t100 has increased yardage, so at least from my perspective it’s kind of hard to not refer to it as a players distance club when that happens, but I guess in the end it’s tomatoe/tomato. Thanks for sharing.
@@SwingFit Maybe T100S?
I started golfing during Covid and currently game the apex pro21. I do have a background in high level hockey. I hit these phenomenally. Trust me it’s not that hard
Is this harder than Apex? I mean similar or a lot harder?
Is the ball flight lower off the apex pro than the apex21?
We didn’t test the Apex 21 with this customer because of his delivery but in general the pro should launch a little lower when compared to the Regular Apex. But of course speed is one of the contributing variables which steers us in one direction or another. Great question.
Which sole is better for a shallow swinger
I would likely say apex pro as it fairs a little better on lower strikes which is where you may find the miss with a shallow swing, the t100 does not like to be hit low in the face.
What would it have been in your matched the lofts on the T100s?
Launch and spin would have been a touch different at least from our side by side testing that we have done and the explanation is because of CG. Great question.
@@SwingFit I just know that loft tends to have an impact on ball speed. I just wonder if both clubs were bent to the same loft and lie how they would perform. I know from my testing the Apex’s are a bit hotter than the T100’s.
Shouldn’t you use the titliest 100s to have the same lofts specs?
We didn’t have the t100s at the time of doing this video and the t100s would be 1 degree stronger then that of the apex as its loft is 32. The other thing is we could have simply bent the irons stronger but that would have been a bandaid fix as the excessive dynamic loft is something the customer really shouldn’t ignore….
I need to be fitted for some
They are really nice and I love my tour921’s but if I make the switch, it would likely be one of these.
im a 16-18handicap…. can i play the new mizumo pro 223?
With the right shaft and delivery yes. It’s a club that prefers to be struck two to three grooves high so if you are a sweeper may not be a good choice. Ideal AOA would be 3-5 down
@@SwingFit good to know, my usual AOA is around 2-5 down and i can find the middle of the face without an issue usually. thanks for the feedback!!
Curious how he would've faired with the t100s compared to the apex pro considering the t100s is 1 degree stronger than the apex pros are. With these numbers he was producing I feel the t100s might have actually won the battle if tested. Either way tho I don't think he could've went wrong both fantastic irons
It’s so cool to see the golfing community getting smarter about club selections and you are spot on, we didn’t have the t100s at the time of doing the video and the customer did elect to wait until we get it because I too am from the same mindset the it just might be the best fit. Thanks for sharing.
They are actually 2 degrees stronger my friend and that would make every club but the pW for each set 2 degrees stronger on the titliest side
Looked it up after the video I was told wrong lofts on the callaway sat a fitting. Your correct my bad.
@@johnhathaway735 all good my man with all of the options and choices I too even get stuff screwed up from time to time, but none the less it’s still good to see golfers digesting the material because my hope is that everyone walks away with a little more knowledge.. thanks again for contributing to the channel
@@SwingFit you got it. It was a good breakdown I have subscribed for similar content (I enjoyed the way you broke it down) as I finally get rid of my 714 AP2 lol. After a fitting I’m more confused than anything your entirely correct. Tons of options. Lol
If the T100 is 1 degree weaker, how can you give a check mark to the apex pro for 1 degree difference in launch angle and decent angle?
It’s a fair question, and had we bent the iron a little stronger we surely would have seen a difference, but I would say the it usually doesn’t equate to a one to one ratio. But this would be a great follow on video to talk about the impact of going stronger or weaker. Thanks for sharing.
@@SwingFit thank you for you’re reply, keep up the great content. I am a 5 handicap, playing PXG 0311T’s and am currently trying to decide between these two irons.
@@bobbyscott9605 I would say they are good enough that you should try them side by side, but I’m going to assume that you might have a pretty good aoa meaning that you are likely hitting down if this is the case then the T100 may get a leg up but once again I would say compare them.
@@bobbyscott9605 I am in your current situation now. I have PXG 0311P and wanted to go with the T100 before the fitting, but once I went through the fitting everything pointed towards the Apex Pro. What irons did you decide between?
@@viewthroughcass I went with the T100 and am more than happy with them. I didn’t really care for the Apex Pro, I also tried the Callaway Apex TCB as those are a better comparison to the T100. I could have went either way with those, I just preferred the look of the T100. Another iron I tried was the Mizuno 223, but ultimately felt the T100 suited me the best
This was me a few months ago. Made major changes this winter to fix it
So glad to hear that you was able to get things corrected, I try to tell everyone that the gear alone can only do so much, Thanks again for sharing bud, and don’t hesitate to drop any suggestions in the comments.
@@SwingFit yeah, I’m looking for new gear. My struggle is last year I had an awful fitting experience. Almost everything I got fit for I don’t enjoy. I’m trying to calculate stuff before I go so I’m educated. What 100 ish gram graphite iron are you having most success with? Steelfiber? Accra? recoil? MMT? What are you noticing between them?
@@ryang1910 the MMT for sure, and I love these for a couple of reasons with the main reason with that of the extra mass they are putting in the tip end of the shaft through the metal mesh, it protects the SW so that it doesn’t get out of wack, currently the only way to protect SW in other graphite shafts is to use super lightweight grips, and generally they suck, or build it longer, and he’ll that’s just not good either. The good thing about the MMT shafts is you can get them in parallel tip which allows the fitter to really dial the launch in so if you want a 100 gram shaft but need more launch I can just make the tip section a little longer, if I need ti bring it down then I would tip it shorter. Hope this helped. Also where are you located?
@@SwingFit one more question. I’m getting a full bag fit in March. There is a guy 30 minutes from my house. He is golf digest top 100 fitter. He has a good reputation. He doesn’t carry Mitsubishi shafts, UST, or fujikura. He doesn’t also carry a couple brands I would be interested in, like Titleist, srixon, or cobra. He does however carry aero tech, Accra, project x, oban, graphite design, true temper. He uses flight scope. If you were me, would you go local.
Or would you take a train ride in to NYC and go to a truespec. They carry all the brands, they use GC quad. I’m trying to figure out if the trip to NYC is worth it. Or just let the guy local, use what he has to make it work.
Thank in advance for hour response
@@ryang1910 I’m a huge fan of more options if not then you will always have some level of doubt or question in the back of your mind if this shaft or that head just might have performed differently. The challenge with smaller establishments is access to more products, so it’s not a knock on them by any means, and I would imagine at some point they will expand if not they wouldn’t have made the Top100.
Why not compare the Apex with the T100S?
Never mind.. Just saw the comments that you didn't have them. Better comparison tho.
Does anyone on tour play the apex pros?
I do not but have reached out to a couple of my contacts to confirm. Most of them are rocking the TCB’s that I’m aware of
@@SwingFit ya maybe in the lower irons but I would be surprised. I hit them the other day and you can definitely notice the tugnesten over a traditional blade
With those type of delivery number, why would you even recommend new clubs…exp if the customer says they are going to work at reducing the AoA?
I ask as I would assume that the shaft could easily change…what would have been great was if you said “if you don’t plan on changing the way you swing, this is the best I can do, but my recommendation would be to not buy anything now and to go work with your swing Coach to reduce your AoA and come back and see me!”
Thanks for sharing and yes this is a valid point for certain technique variables, but AOA and Dynamic loft would be two variables that wouldn’t concern me from a technique perspective, as it’s in my honest opinion that the shots and outcome would only get better not worse, now if somebody was working on their speed then I would for sure hold off on the purchase.. Now in regards to the shafts, well we do something that no other fitting studio I know of does and that’’s we have a complimentary shaft exchange program, so let’s say someone found themselves in the situation where they did make some technique changes down the road and the clubs no longer perform well for their swing, then we will swap the shafts out minus the difference and labor to do so. Thanks again for asking as this was a really good question.
@@SwingFit Thanks for the reply and that service you provide is really awesome! Here’s to many new subs (I’m one)!!!
chrome is cool
In to Out / Angle of Attack Up / Toe Down ... customer should focus on fixing his swing.
Well for sure I’m not going to argue that point at all but what’s wrong with hitting the ball better while your working on your technique…🤔🤔
Your vids are pretty good brother. However, if you really want the viewer to connect and be more engaged with your material, you may want to let us visibly observe the interactions between you and the customer, and to watch them go through the fitting process, rather then just watching shots on the monitor. Just a suggestion.
Thanks for sharing my man, I still haven’t been quite able to put my finger on how to capture a 90 minute session in just a 10-15 minute video. And have been simply thinking about recording a video start to finish and letting it ride. But it’s definitely one that I also see tremendous value as sometimes it’s the in the weed perspective that can become the most beneficial. Thanks again bud and for supporting the channel.
@@SwingFit you will be surprised to know that most of us enjoy long form videos. Check out the views on TXG's long videos; we just want information and you are really knowledgeable and your delivery is impeccable. Keep up the good work brother 👊😁
Brushed satin all day long over chrome
Satin finish. Always.
Those are not players distance irons. P790 & Cobra ForgedTec are PDIs...
IMHO I don’t know very many good players playing with strong lofted irons such as the ones you mentioned so personally I wouldn’t categorize anything with a loft stronger then that of 32 to be in the players category….but once again that’s just my opinion. Thanks for sharing.
T100S all day for this guy. Pitty it wasn't tested for him.
If we had the head for sure it would have came out, hoping to get in the next two weeks and the customer is going to retest once we do get it
T100s for the win
I wish we had the demo to compare but I think it would have surely been the correct one and the customer is holding off until we get it just to make sure.
@@SwingFit smart. i think the T100s going to be perfect for a lot of people
No neither of these, or any other model like them, can help me play better golf. Quite to the contrary.
Well perhaps not these but I’m sure there’s something in my cabinet that could help you out.😀
T100 is not player distance....t100s would be
It’s kind of hard to argue what is a Players distance iron anymore these days as everything is arguably going farther. So in this situation a label is just a label but the results is what you can hang your hat on and in this test, both clubs performed very well and comparable. Thanks for sharing.