I didn't realize they made different types of black PC print surfaces. I thought they were all the same, but this one is actually pretty great. The ones I got with the Ender 3 S1 and Ender 5 S1 were waaaay too textured and wouldn't let go of prints. I assumed the S1 max surface sucked without trying it, so I replaced it with PEI without even trying it. Only reason I gave this bed surface a shot is because I have no idea where I'd get a 450x450mm replacement. But I'm glad I tried it out, will probably be keeping it. This makes the wobbly noise too!
The day Bambu Labs release an XL printer is the day Creality will have to start upping their game seriously, Creality do come up with some great beneficial features to their printers but there is always something else that's really stupid that they do to spoil that printer.
Pretty much need to be modder to get the most out of them. Some parts are overbuilt (sprite extruder for example) others are under built, like part cooling fans. This one has good part cooling but bad heatbreak, always something with them for sure! But that’s half the fun of owning one IMO, customization
Also, Push Plastics sells 25 kg spools of PLA, if you’re looking for the biggest spools possible. Granted, 1 25 kg spool of PLA is $550, which is more than a lot of printers on the market, and I don’t know how good their tolerances are, though it seems like something worth checking out for giant printers like that one.
Thats expensive for 25Kg, the shipping would be expensive for that weight though. It would be cheaper to buy a bulk order of 3Kg spools, I cant see the point of a 25Kg spool, 3 Kg will more or less fill the build plate of an Ender 5 Plus.
It relates to manageabilty...I have 1m3 printers but pretty much 5kg is sweetspot for those..these smaller machines are fine with 3kg and they all fit into dehumidifier boxes much more easily :-)
You put a new printer into a real "whiskey" situation 🤣 I really enjoy your printer reviews and insight into all of their shortcomings. The price and size are a no-go for my needs but it would be well suited in a print farm/industrial situation. Looking forward to your next video (and subsequent prints) regarding this machine. Cheers!
There was a kit someone made to make an Ender 3 about that size, saw it a few years back, similiar Y axis. My issue with bed slingers is the size of an enclosure needed if you want one and the mass being moved. I like my Ender 3 Pro but I spent a way too much on it to make it work really well as well as made it IDEX, full rails, side mounted dual Z belts with gear reduction and a good enclosure. It can print just about anything now but I could have built a CoreXY for what I have in it. I'll never buy another Creality or any bed slinger for that matter. Bambu is out because it's not open source, I like to tinker too much. A larger CoreXY will be my next build, either my own design a Rat Rig or maybe something using the E3D tool changer. Depends how motivated I get next fall.
Was it an Ender extender kit that increased the printer size? I saw those and kind of wanted to build one. This is a lot more purpose built for being a large printer, but you can go big without having to spend a fortune with one of those extender kits
Really wish that Creality would have put some effort into an updated plus sized Ender 6 (or not fllopped the Ender 7 so bad) The 7 especially could have grown into a decent foil to the Prusa XL on the everyman side with just a few tweaks (v wheels on the side rails in addition to the cantilever if they weren't going to jump to linear rods like the 5 and 6)
Not really, first time I’ve heard them here. All metal hotends break a lot more easily, but they include one on the Ender 5 S1 so idk why they wouldn’t put one on here
Sometimes I think it would be better if these printers came as kits. That way I can assemble them properly. As it is you have to check a whole lot of things that aren't in the instruction manual. You need some mechanical know-how to get everything working properly.
I took a couple hours disassembling mine when I received it. Undid alot of screws and used blue Loctite on everything. Never did build plate though. After watching this video I checked them and sure enough, could get a full turn out of them.😂😄😆😅😂 Always something, thanks!
Easily modded to be IDEX. Did it to my Ender 3 Pro, no kits needed if your handy but you will need to be proficient with configuring firmware. I don't dual/mirror print anything so I run Klipper. I mainly use it to have 2 different nozzle sizes ready to go and dissolvale supports. There are downsides to IDEX as well, nozzle changes for example require zeroing both tools again. Take it apart and you will be re-aligning X/Y tool offsets which can be a pain to get accurate.
I contacted Creality and was told there wouldn't be a major sonic pad update until November for CR-M4 compatibility. Then I asked a question about my extruder quiting mid print multiple times and got no response. They are really hit or miss.
@Nathan Builds Robots The extruder on my CR-M4. It's sporadic. Been through connections, hotend, swapped usb sticks, swapped hot end with spare, flir camera extruder, reset firmware... really odd too cause I stop the print and can extrude manually.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I'm just a beginner hobbyists with a 6 year old boy that likes cosplay so making large items was selling point. Borrowed friends ender 5 and decided to go this route buying my own. I'm learning a lot as I go and don't mind. If I were capable I woulda had klipper running as soon as I started having extruder issues.
@@chriswhite2718 I wonder if its a slicer issue. It could also be the stepper driver overheating on the mainboard. I think they automatically turn off when they get too hot? Not 100% sure on that. In any case, you might want to try getting some help on my Discord, a lot of people get free troubleshooting done there.
I had purchased a CR-M4 and had the same backflow. I replaced the hot end and after I reinstalled it the printer kept trying to push the nozzle through the build plate. Even if I manually set the z axis. I ended up returning it and getting a new one.
With that much filament the rotating weight may cause tugging on the hotend and uneven layer lines. I use reverse Bowden fastened on both ends so the extruder has something to pull against that isn’t itself.
The larger spool diameter could help make up for some of the difference, but still is something to keep an eye on. Might be cool to have some kind of buffer system like what is used on the Bambulab AMS, just a big spring to take up the sudden jolts and smoothly pull on the spool. Or something servo controlled, but last thing we need is another motor on these things
Its not a standard Klipper image though, Creality have messed with it, there are loads of updates for the Sonic Pad and sometimes multiple updates every day for longer than a week, some of the updates are to fix previous updates according to some Reddit posts I have read.
Hello, I have also bought the CR-M4, but I haven’t been able to achieve the print quality I want. The printer has a 0.8 nozzle installed. I’ve tried Creality Slicer, Creality Cloud, etc., but couldn’t get a proper result. Could you share the slicer and profile you use?
yeah i wish they'd give proper instructions how to assemble the machine, the same ones they give their employees, better yet the engineer who designed it should explain how it goes together, the best order etc. I had mine already preassmbled but sort of wish i had to assemble it, because after rotaing my zrods for fun i realized i didnt have the correct order of operations when i put it back together. I managed to find out how but what you just said there in that 5 seconds was more info then i could find on the subject. I actually found a nother video that mentioned how to align everything but not really a step by step from scratch. I think all printers print great when properly setup, some fater then others is the only real difference, quality should be the same, since the models are.
I have a whole hour of going through the wheel tightening step by step. But it really interrupted the flow of the review. I could edit it into its own video if you think that'd be useful? Basically you want the tension of all the wheels to be roughly even. It requires things to be assembled a certain way. The components have float built into the joints, so you can loosen things, and the tolerances/forces between all the parts completely changes.
@@NathanBuildsRobots woah yaeh that would definately be useful,but yeah not really fitting the flow of this video i understand. Thats more of a guide video that would be a totaly differnt thing but definatley helpful to a lot im sure. Im still not sure i put everything back correctly and just leaving it becaus i got no issues with it, but deep down would still like to take it apart and put it back together properly, infact i know i put swapped the left and right frame peieces by accident but by doing so i was able to get a squarer fit when locking down the bolts it seems, id have gaps and overhangs the other way... so im laeving it for now because i might of just got lucky, it prints better then when i got it. So it definalty wasnt perfect from the factory either, making a video like that even more useful to many i think.
Nathan, Have you tried running this beast on the Sonic Pad? Many people are reporting the hot-end fan will not work in combination with the Sonic Pad. I would love to hear if you have any experience with this. A video on the subject would be really nice!
@@NathanBuildsRobots I have uneven bed on my CR-M4, but I don't understand why my CR-TOUCH only reads, but it doesn't use mesh bed leveling data during the printing? Despite Z-offset adjustment my first layer tests are uneven.
Nice review. For someone who is strictly a hobbyist, I don't see the point of such a large printer. And I am looking forward to hearing the story behind the helmet...
It does take up a lot of space, but as a hobbyist I'm more concerned about the price than the size. Fortunately I didn't have to pay for it, because I probably wouldn't have bought it. But now that I have it, I can think of 100 things to do with the extra print volume. Lots of stuff that just isn't possible with 200 or 300mm build areas.
@Nathan Builds Robots CHC = 60W CHC Pro = 115W Creality mainboard PSU = 75W As you showed too, to upgrade and go with a true volcano nozzle, you have to adjust parts cooling. Then the issue of switching or sourcing ones with PT1000 thermistor because the NTC ones are under-rated from what I've researched if you use heater to full potential.
I have a Prusa I3 MK 3 I was wondering how much work I would have to make this print good for me I'm not a total beginner but I'm not an expert by far I just like the Idea of a large format machine because I would like to be able to print boats all at one time no gluing together.
Hey got a quick question, do you have a link for the right heat break and nozzle your using. I think im going to do the same mod to print petg without any problem
Thank you for the review, this is very thorough ! In my case I do need large prints . I have been using the printer for the past week with very variable results. I tend to get jumps in the Z axis and the initial layer has gone from great to total crap. Is there any specific tightening/setting you would recommend ? Not sure if I am missing something that is causing uneven layers
@@NathanBuildsRobots I’ve asked creality on several occasions to just stop releasing printers with vslot rollers and bed springs, yet they just continue. It’s like they only sell things for the most profit, cutting corners to get there. I’m simply done with creality and their bs.
@@NathanBuildsRobots So Cask strength bourbon and a giant bed slinger, what could possibly go wrong? 🤣 Not judging obviously, the helmet was brilliant!
Excellent vid Nathan...Has anyone here got one of these to print with Octo/Pi etc? The manual is hopeless and there is no USB B host port??? I have lan access but there is no webserver at the address. The creality print is absolute toy/rubbish with ads and slicing. I simply want it to work like the rest of the printers with servers/usb per machine
@@NathanBuildsRobots Yeah I dont use the creality...after market only and Pis have always been great...have a small setup ie 7 but mostly large and a couple of 1m3 but the multi component stuff I do for a job and there are no neg volumes or reasonable ways to use creality print...mainly on the industrial design side. Issue is I just cant get connection to it and the connector glossary suggests usb c for online printing? I also ran the (600mm) verniers over the frame and it was out especially the vertical top so the v rollers were hard to adjust but the real issue is the slap in the lead screw nuts (and the nut mounts were loose out of the box!)
@NathanBuildsRobots Thanks for the response. Very new to 3D printing. Plan to use PA once I'm comfortable with the machine, but is there an overall particular brand of filament you recommend?
Hey, Nathan. As I'm new to 3D printing, I have a question. I purchased your modder board. Do you manually have to offset the Z axis for the additional spacing for the modder board? Thanks
Nathan. First congrats for the vid! and sorry for my poor english. Im from Argentina and in my company (orthopedic insoles industry )we are looking to implement 3d printing. We have no knowledge on it, witch printer you suggest for us. We need speed, size up to 30cm each insole long and 15width, industrial periods printing. Thanks for your help.
The least expensive option that will meet your needs is the Artillery Sodewinder X2. The Bambu lab P1P is another good option, it is faster and easier to operate. The space might not be large enough for you, but you might be able to print the insoles diagonally on the bed which is over 300mm diagonally
another crap printer from Creality. You'd have to remove the touch screen, then add the 12864, you'd have to remove the Sprite and add a decent hotend and extruder combo to it. And it likely has that goofy Motherboard the S1 uses. So you'd have to replace the motherboard as well.
I prefer the older motherboards, not a big fan of what creality has done to force everyone onto their proprietary boards with goofy connectors. However, it does the job just fine, and we SHOULD be moving to a single plug harness, but I don't think any of the main brands have really found a good solution. Bambu has the best I've seen with the USBC cable to carry all the power/signal to the hotend. That is ideal, except now you have 2 MCUs, one on the mainboard and one on the hotend. That isn't ideal, but it might be the best solution i've seen so far. I do like having only 1 MCU for the whole printer, with a breakout board for the hotend. Makes troubleshooting much easier, though the 20+ wires required to make it work is a bit barbaric. Spare motherboards are $26 on aliexpress, so just buy another to have on hand if you're worried about it failing. Or just get the Sonic Pad and be happy running Klipper for dummies.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Single Plug Harnesses are prone to Electromagnetic Interference, and if one item goes down, it could back feed and short circuit other items. Everything should have it's own independent wire[s]. And I won't run Klipper it was designed as a crutch for older 8bit boards. Now that Marlin 2.1.2 has Linear Advance and Input Shaping. There is no reason for Klipper to exist.
Im honestly not so sure what to think about the x axis drag chain. If the wires are not built for drag chains they will break sooner or later, many voron users switch to umbilical style wiring for the xy motion in order to improve reliability. For z it makes perfectly sense as there is so little movement. Do you have any idea why they chose such a awkward nozzle length and not just use a regular volcano? From my knowledge some cr10 variant used a volcano with a titan extruder, so nothing new in theory. Sovol has also such nozzle i think, in the sv06 plus. Also couldn't think of any reason why to go for that style, haven't seen them anywhere else.
Just out of curiosity: was wondering that a lot of 3D printing TH-camrs from the U.S. are using metric measurements and part sizes instead of imperial. Did there something silently change in the U.S. regarding imperial?
I think the younger generation of engineers has a preference for metric. Also, it helps that most consumer grade printers are made in foreign countries. So fasteners and software are all set to metric by default. Plus, nobody wants to describe the flow rate in cubic inches per second, or densities in pound per cubic inch... its all so awful. Much happier to work in metric!
@@NathanBuildsRobots Great to hear that. Lived a long "full metric live" but having experienced quite a handful of different currencies I suspect it might not the easiest thing to "feel" in two completely different systems of measurements. We internalize all kinds of lengths, weights, heights, volumes, speeds, distances and more in a live time that I find it hard to imagine learning a second "kind of language" for all these things.
I enjoyed your demonstration and tips on the printer and it is obvious that you have said the word printer more than 5 times. Were as other people don't have a clue what they are doing or talking about. Thanks chum and great video.
Why are you saying that you are not seeing the point of high accelerations corexy design brings? What I am missing? The bottleneck for speed is not the melt rate of nozzles if you are using a cht 1mm nozzle and 0.24mm layer height. (Which is the near ideal layer height for good layer adhesion for 1mm nozzles)
The point is: most of yall have your printer sitting idle 95% of the time and complain about them printing too slow 😅 Speed printing tends to smell bad and make a lot of noise. So I tend not to go all speed racer mode for no reason. Only time you NEED that speed is when rapidly iterating prototypes. Which I don't do more than once a month. I will probably print at 1.1mm wide, 0.4mm tall travelling at 40-80mm/s for a volumetric flow rate of 15-25mm^3/s That will eat a spool of filament in about 16 hrs If I want to print lots of filament I can do vase mode 1.8mm CHT at 5x2mm bead. Going 60mm^3/s would equate to a printhead speed of 6mm/s and would eat up a spool in about 5 hrs. I could push it faster, and go 100mm^3/s, at 10mm/s, which I might do just for 1 video to show off, destroying a spool in maybe 4 hrs? That 5 kg spool would be toast in under 24 hrs. It's not necessary unless I were going into production mode. Push things too fast, and things break more often. Slow and steady wins the race for me. Plus excessive cooling that many high speed printers use can lead to weak parts.
Tell them to send me one! I have been consistently reaching out to them. Apparently I am on the list to try one of the Neptune printers when they have them in stock in April. I have not heard back from Anycubic. www.anycubic.com/pages/contact-us www.elegoo.com/pages/support
@@NathanBuildsRobots the only downside of the Neptune 3 Max are the bed springs. I might buy one and replace them with aluminium spacers, since it has a bed leveling sensor anyways. And the heatbreak PTFE liner needs replacement if you want a full metal hotend assembly
If the bed was off by 1 degree it would cause an 8-13 mm variance, so the fact that it is only about 1mm of variance is quite good. It’s off by maybe 0.1 degree, and quite flat despite the size of the bed
I was trying to adjust the alignment of the little pulley belt system in the rear of the machine. Ultimately it was the wax line that really cut down in the nose so I’m not sure if the hammering did anything.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I'm trying to get a refund from Creality, They sent me a new hot end & cabling but it hasn't resolved the problem. I keep getting an Error code E07. . I regret buying this printer 😞
we dont need a sonic pad we have a Pi4 :) nice vid good printer but you can up grade the ender3 with v-slots to the same size. but thats for us moders ......
There is always the Tronxy X5SA if you want CoreXY. Its a 500x500 corexy printer, but it is missing some features like direct drive extruder, and who knows what the quality is like.
seems like an Ender 30 same problems as the 3... times 10! jk looks like a good machine but just crazy to ship it as a low-flow printer (no klipper, no input shaping, 0.4mm nozzle, etc) especially for the price like how are you ever supposed to take advantage of that build volume in the Z axis! Practically a 2D printer as shipped.
Right, well it seems you have to mod it to get it to live up to expectations. Not too much of a problem for me, and I kind of like the challenge of modifying these to suit my use-case. But I know some people prefer a more out-of-the-box experience.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I'm all for modding, but the price should reflect that. I bought my S1 for £220 (about $300) brand new. I'd rather buy 3 more for less money to have the same build volume (x, y) than buy one of these. I'd also have 4x the extruders running at 150mm/s each with the sonic pad The numbers just don't add up with the m4.
@@iamdmc Yeah, I can see that. However, I have some projects that I have not been able to do until now due to build area limitations. I have some designs that can be made in 1-3 pcs that would have otherwise need to be made in out of 4-12 pcs. Having multiple pieces drives up cost, complexity, and difficulty to model and assemble, and failure points so for me, personally, this 450 build area is a game changer.
@@iamdmc And, given the price, I agree, it should be in a perfectly working state - not needing trivial stuff like nozzle tightening, wheel tensioning, heatbreak replacement, belt lubing, bed screw tightening, etc. A premium price should have premium build quality, fit, and finish,
@@AndrewAHayes not sure of the exact dimensions, but the whole P1P fits on the build tray, so it should be able to engulf the whole thing in 1 print. would be cool to do a print-in-place door hinge mechanism ad just drop it in when finished printing
Clearly insufficient torque was used on that nozzle, two clicks isn't nearly enough. Yeah, the heat brakes being different lengths is a known thing, not sure why it doesn't get mentioned more. The Mk8 PTFE lined heat breaks have a super long separation/break zone in the middle, whereas all the all metal heat brakes are usually just clones of the E3d Kraken heat brake and have a much shorter break zone and are just that bit shorter. There are now Mk8 specific all metal hot ends but you have to be careful what you get.
Lol. I really don’t mind them. At least they used linear rails where it was important, on the Y axis. When that tray is loaded up with 2-3kg of plastic, having a super rigid bed and Y axis will be a print saver
Hi grade whiskey - thafuq dude? Might as well have used coca cola to wash it off.. there’s probably 60% of impurities there.. using windex might be a better option.. Not the best review, as you just did a bunch of stuff to it that I’m not gonna do.. Run as it is straight from the box so I can se what to expect..
I have seen half the video , and come to the conclusion that this printer need complete make over in order to work properly. For who did they build this? Sorry, great tutorial! But I am so dissapointed because specs seem so great! But thanks to people like you, I realize I should never buy this printer....because it is so damn unreliable and loud....that any sane person would feel the urge to mod the hack out of this. To come back to the reason of wanting this printer: print big stuff as it comes. Is that possible with this printer? And better use isopropanol;-) (Althought the other taste a lot better!)
Worst Printer I have ever used! & Customer Service is useless. I had to purchase the Kobra Max because I was losing money, waiting for parts from Creality, The Kobra Max is so much better than this, Can't believe I wasted £1099 on the CRM4 when the Kobra Max is half the price & better in Speed, Quality & Noise.
Not sure the Kobra Max could keep up in volumetric flow rate using a Bowden tube extruder, but yeah this thing is loud and needs some fixes straight out of the factory. Unfortunate
I would agree with everything prior to the sprite being garbage. I really like the sprite though. It’s not perfect, but it does remarkably well at high flow rate printing, which is what I’m into. Also the print quality is really nice at standard settings.
that's the s1 plus print surface! I thought it was pretty good, although a giant PEI sheet would make a better noise when you wobble it, so...
I didn't realize they made different types of black PC print surfaces. I thought they were all the same, but this one is actually pretty great.
The ones I got with the Ender 3 S1 and Ender 5 S1 were waaaay too textured and wouldn't let go of prints. I assumed the S1 max surface sucked without trying it, so I replaced it with PEI without even trying it.
Only reason I gave this bed surface a shot is because I have no idea where I'd get a 450x450mm replacement. But I'm glad I tried it out, will probably be keeping it.
This makes the wobbly noise too!
The day Bambu Labs release an XL printer is the day Creality will have to start upping their game seriously, Creality do come up with some great beneficial features to their printers but there is always something else that's really stupid that they do to spoil that printer.
Pretty much need to be modder to get the most out of them. Some parts are overbuilt (sprite extruder for example) others are under built, like part cooling fans. This one has good part cooling but bad heatbreak, always something with them for sure! But that’s half the fun of owning one IMO, customization
Yup, I just realized i want a bambu in that size, I had some projects in mind, but until then it can wait
@@robob3ar do you know when Bambu Lab would produce such big printer ?
The chaos in your videos is S tier. I dig it
Also, Push Plastics sells 25 kg spools of PLA, if you’re looking for the biggest spools possible. Granted, 1 25 kg spool of PLA is $550, which is more than a lot of printers on the market, and I don’t know how good their tolerances are, though it seems like something worth checking out for giant printers like that one.
That is great. 5kg is already pretty massive, 25kg would need a special spool holder made of reinforced steel!
Thats expensive for 25Kg, the shipping would be expensive for that weight though. It would be cheaper to buy a bulk order of 3Kg spools, I cant see the point of a 25Kg spool, 3 Kg will more or less fill the build plate of an Ender 5 Plus.
It relates to manageabilty...I have 1m3 printers but pretty much 5kg is sweetspot for those..these smaller machines are fine with 3kg and they all fit into dehumidifier boxes much more easily :-)
You put a new printer into a real "whiskey" situation 🤣
I really enjoy your printer reviews and insight into all of their shortcomings. The price and size are a no-go for my needs but it would be well suited in a print farm/industrial situation.
Looking forward to your next video (and subsequent prints) regarding this machine. Cheers!
There was a kit someone made to make an Ender 3 about that size, saw it a few years back, similiar Y axis. My issue with bed slingers is the size of an enclosure needed if you want one and the mass being moved.
I like my Ender 3 Pro but I spent a way too much on it to make it work really well as well as made it IDEX, full rails, side mounted dual Z belts with gear reduction and a good enclosure. It can print just about anything now but I could have built a CoreXY for what I have in it. I'll never buy another Creality or any bed slinger for that matter. Bambu is out because it's not open source, I like to tinker too much. A larger CoreXY will be my next build, either my own design a Rat Rig or maybe something using the E3D tool changer. Depends how motivated I get next fall.
You might be able to reassemble it into a Corexy printer like the rook. Good luck with your future build, sounds like it will be a beast
Was it an Ender extender kit that increased the printer size? I saw those and kind of wanted to build one. This is a lot more purpose built for being a large printer, but you can go big without having to spend a fortune with one of those extender kits
@@NathanBuildsRobots Yes thats what it was called. Couldn't think of the name.
Really wish that Creality would have put some effort into an updated plus sized Ender 6 (or not fllopped the Ender 7 so bad)
The 7 especially could have grown into a decent foil to the Prusa XL on the everyman side with just a few tweaks (v wheels on the side rails in addition to the cantilever if they weren't going to jump to linear rods like the 5 and 6)
Why didn't they include an all metal hotend? Do you have a lot of Blue jays?
Not really, first time I’ve heard them here.
All metal hotends break a lot more easily, but they include one on the Ender 5 S1 so idk why they wouldn’t put one on here
Loose screws in Creality, who would have thought? :D
Sometimes I think it would be better if these printers came as kits. That way I can assemble them properly. As it is you have to check a whole lot of things that aren't in the instruction manual. You need some mechanical know-how to get everything working properly.
@@NathanBuildsRobots you need mechanical know how + luck + software trouble shooting skills.
It's been 6 hours since this comment and I am still laughing.
I took a couple hours disassembling mine when I received it. Undid alot of screws and used blue Loctite on everything. Never did build plate though. After watching this video I checked them and sure enough, could get a full turn out of them.😂😄😆😅😂 Always something, thanks!
an idex version of this is a must for this print size. speed up production
iQex at this price
Easily modded to be IDEX. Did it to my Ender 3 Pro, no kits needed if your handy but you will need to be proficient with configuring firmware. I don't dual/mirror print anything so I run Klipper. I mainly use it to have 2 different nozzle sizes ready to go and dissolvale supports. There are downsides to IDEX as well, nozzle changes for example require zeroing both tools again. Take it apart and you will be re-aligning X/Y tool offsets which can be a pain to get accurate.
I contacted Creality and was told there wouldn't be a major sonic pad update until November for CR-M4 compatibility. Then I asked a question about my extruder quiting mid print multiple times and got no response. They are really hit or miss.
Wow, the extruder on which machine?
Kinda odd that the klipper config takes that long. I’d be able to do it in an afternoon…
Maybe their plan is wait for someone from the community to do it, then copy it onto their next sonic pad firmware update
@Nathan Builds Robots The extruder on my CR-M4. It's sporadic. Been through connections, hotend, swapped usb sticks, swapped hot end with spare, flir camera extruder, reset firmware... really odd too cause I stop the print and can extrude manually.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I'm just a beginner hobbyists with a 6 year old boy that likes cosplay so making large items was selling point. Borrowed friends ender 5 and decided to go this route buying my own. I'm learning a lot as I go and don't mind. If I were capable I woulda had klipper running as soon as I started having extruder issues.
@@chriswhite2718 I wonder if its a slicer issue. It could also be the stepper driver overheating on the mainboard. I think they automatically turn off when they get too hot? Not 100% sure on that. In any case, you might want to try getting some help on my Discord, a lot of people get free troubleshooting done there.
Which all-metal heat break did you use?
I just added them to the description, thanks for pointing that out
bro whisky has sugar and stuff in it >.>
Well now I need to take a trip down the bourbon trail and write it off as a business expense... for research purposes.
I had purchased a CR-M4 and had the same backflow. I replaced the hot end and after I reinstalled it the printer kept trying to push the nozzle through the build plate. Even if I manually set the z axis. I ended up returning it and getting a new one.
With that much filament the rotating weight may cause tugging on the hotend and uneven layer lines. I use reverse Bowden fastened on both ends so the extruder has something to pull against that isn’t itself.
The larger spool diameter could help make up for some of the difference, but still is something to keep an eye on. Might be cool to have some kind of buffer system like what is used on the Bambulab AMS, just a big spring to take up the sudden jolts and smoothly pull on the spool. Or something servo controlled, but last thing we need is another motor on these things
Need help with the retraction what is your retraction speed that you use on this printer?
But Sonic Pad is just a Klipper device. It should be able to run it if you make your own cfg file
Yeah, I'm all about that easy mode though :P
Its not a standard Klipper image though, Creality have messed with it, there are loads of updates for the Sonic Pad and sometimes multiple updates every day for longer than a week, some of the updates are to fix previous updates according to some Reddit posts I have read.
Hello, I have also bought the CR-M4, but I haven’t been able to achieve the print quality I want. The printer has a 0.8 nozzle installed. I’ve tried Creality Slicer, Creality Cloud, etc., but couldn’t get a proper result. Could you share the slicer and profile you use?
Ok you upgraded the hotend on your CR M4 can you give details of the to updates for the upgrade.
yeah i wish they'd give proper instructions how to assemble the machine, the same ones they give their employees, better yet the engineer who designed it should explain how it goes together, the best order etc. I had mine already preassmbled but sort of wish i had to assemble it, because after rotaing my zrods for fun i realized i didnt have the correct order of operations when i put it back together. I managed to find out how but what you just said there in that 5 seconds was more info then i could find on the subject. I actually found a nother video that mentioned how to align everything but not really a step by step from scratch. I think all printers print great when properly setup, some fater then others is the only real difference, quality should be the same, since the models are.
I have a whole hour of going through the wheel tightening step by step. But it really interrupted the flow of the review. I could edit it into its own video if you think that'd be useful?
Basically you want the tension of all the wheels to be roughly even. It requires things to be assembled a certain way. The components have float built into the joints, so you can loosen things, and the tolerances/forces between all the parts completely changes.
@@NathanBuildsRobots woah yaeh that would definately be useful,but yeah not really fitting the flow of this video i understand. Thats more of a guide video that would be a totaly differnt thing but definatley helpful to a lot im sure. Im still not sure i put everything back correctly and just leaving it becaus i got no issues with it, but deep down would still like to take it apart and put it back together properly, infact i know i put swapped the left and right frame peieces by accident but by doing so i was able to get a squarer fit when locking down the bolts it seems, id have gaps and overhangs the other way... so im laeving it for now because i might of just got lucky, it prints better then when i got it. So it definalty wasnt perfect from the factory either, making a video like that even more useful to many i think.
Nathan, Have you tried running this beast on the Sonic Pad? Many people are reporting the hot-end fan will not work in combination with the Sonic Pad. I would love to hear if you have any experience with this. A video on the subject would be really nice!
Where I get the motherboard shown in your video?
I noticed that my bed is way out, the middle is around .-001 but all of the outsides are .-900 and i have to use +3.80 z offset.
That's what bed-leveling is for! Really not too bad IMO as long as your prints are working
@@NathanBuildsRobots I have uneven bed on my CR-M4, but I don't understand why my CR-TOUCH only reads, but it doesn't use mesh bed leveling data during the printing? Despite Z-offset adjustment my first layer tests are uneven.
Nice review. For someone who is strictly a hobbyist, I don't see the point of such a large printer. And I am looking forward to hearing the story behind the helmet...
It does take up a lot of space, but as a hobbyist I'm more concerned about the price than the size. Fortunately I didn't have to pay for it, because I probably wouldn't have bought it.
But now that I have it, I can think of 100 things to do with the extra print volume. Lots of stuff that just isn't possible with 200 or 300mm build areas.
FYI Triangle Labs CHC Pro(volcano) is a no-go on machine without a lot of homework for various reasons.
Why is that?
@Nathan Builds Robots
CHC = 60W
CHC Pro = 115W
Creality mainboard PSU = 75W
As you showed too, to upgrade and go with a true volcano nozzle, you have to adjust parts cooling.
Then the issue of switching or sourcing ones with PT1000 thermistor because the NTC ones are under-rated from what I've researched if you use heater to full potential.
If so, looks like I'll be sending the CHC Pro back.
@@SlickNickBA the 800w can handle mainboard and hotend. I just wouldn't heat both simultaneously. Lol Ask me how I know!
@@chriswhite2718 Did you upgrade the PSU or just give up on it?
I have a Prusa I3 MK 3 I was wondering how much work I would have to make this print good for me I'm not a total beginner but I'm not an expert by far I just like the Idea of a large format machine because I would like to be able to print boats all at one time no gluing together.
Awesome thanks man!
Hey got a quick question, do you have a link for the right heat break and nozzle your using. I think im going to do the same mod to print petg without any problem
this is a huge step in the right direction for creality. your mod game is the kind of energy we need more of in the community
Thanks. I think they need to ship this out with my mods pre installed :D
How does this compare to the cr10-max?
I've got a cr10-max with a microswiss extruder setup...
Thank you for the review, this is very thorough ! In my case I do need large prints . I have been using the printer for the past week with very variable results. I tend to get jumps in the Z axis and the initial layer has gone from great to total crap. Is there any specific tightening/setting you would recommend ? Not sure if I am missing something that is causing uneven layers
Looks like a cr10-max upgraded and i have the ender cr10-max and now Bambu lab x1c with AMS.Bambu is light years ahead of all the rest including Voron
Switched from creality to bambu. I’m done supporting a company that doesn’t listen to me.
Which company doesn’t listen to you?
@@NathanBuildsRobots I’ve asked creality on several occasions to just stop releasing printers with vslot rollers and bed springs, yet they just continue. It’s like they only sell things for the most profit, cutting corners to get there. I’m simply done with creality and their bs.
@@cgwworldministries83I can confirm +1
Hi, great video. Which slicer did you use? This printer is new and I was no able to find it in Creality Slicer.
He literally says
Giant bed slinger, a bottle of bourbon, helmet was a great choice! 😂
When that print bed gets moving it’s probably got enough momentum to knock you out! If you position your head very stupidly
@@NathanBuildsRobots So Cask strength bourbon and a giant bed slinger, what could possibly go wrong? 🤣 Not judging obviously, the helmet was brilliant!
Excellent vid Nathan...Has anyone here got one of these to print with Octo/Pi etc? The manual is hopeless and there is no USB B host port??? I have lan access but there is no webserver at the address. The creality print is absolute toy/rubbish with ads and slicing. I simply want it to work like the rest of the printers with servers/usb per machine
Apparently the sonic pad works on this. I haven’t set it up yet though
@@NathanBuildsRobots Yeah I dont use the creality...after market only and Pis have always been great...have a small setup ie 7 but mostly large and a couple of 1m3 but the multi component stuff I do for a job and there are no neg volumes or reasonable ways to use creality print...mainly on the industrial design side. Issue is I just cant get connection to it and the connector glossary suggests usb c for online printing?
I also ran the (600mm) verniers over the frame and it was out especially the vertical top so the v rollers were hard to adjust but the real issue is the slap in the lead screw nuts (and the nut mounts were loose out of the box!)
I cannot get the PLA to stick. No matter what I do, it doesn't adhere to the plate cover.
Try cleaning with alcohol, turning temp up to 60-70 and trying a different brand
@NathanBuildsRobots Thanks for the response. Very new to 3D printing. Plan to use PA once I'm comfortable with the machine, but is there an overall particular brand of filament you recommend?
I’ve had a bad batch with pretty much every brand. My polyterra matte black has been pretty reliably good.
@@NathanBuildsRobotsThanks. I will check that one out.
Hey, Nathan. As I'm new to 3D printing, I have a question. I purchased your modder board. Do you manually have to offset the Z axis for the additional spacing for the modder board? Thanks
I don't understand which parts of this are satire.
The whole thing is satire, especially the comments section :D
Nathan. First congrats for the vid! and sorry for my poor english. Im from Argentina and in my company (orthopedic insoles industry )we are looking to implement 3d printing. We have no knowledge on it, witch printer you suggest for us. We need speed, size up to 30cm each insole long and 15width, industrial periods printing. Thanks for your help.
The least expensive option that will meet your needs is the Artillery Sodewinder X2.
The Bambu lab P1P is another good option, it is faster and easier to operate. The space might not be large enough for you, but you might be able to print the insoles diagonally on the bed which is over 300mm diagonally
another crap printer from Creality. You'd have to remove the touch screen, then add the 12864, you'd have to remove the Sprite and add a decent hotend and extruder combo to it. And it likely has that goofy Motherboard the S1 uses. So you'd have to replace the motherboard as well.
I prefer the older motherboards, not a big fan of what creality has done to force everyone onto their proprietary boards with goofy connectors. However, it does the job just fine, and we SHOULD be moving to a single plug harness, but I don't think any of the main brands have really found a good solution. Bambu has the best I've seen with the USBC cable to carry all the power/signal to the hotend. That is ideal, except now you have 2 MCUs, one on the mainboard and one on the hotend. That isn't ideal, but it might be the best solution i've seen so far.
I do like having only 1 MCU for the whole printer, with a breakout board for the hotend. Makes troubleshooting much easier, though the 20+ wires required to make it work is a bit barbaric.
Spare motherboards are $26 on aliexpress, so just buy another to have on hand if you're worried about it failing. Or just get the Sonic Pad and be happy running Klipper for dummies.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Single Plug Harnesses are prone to Electromagnetic Interference, and if one item goes down, it could back feed and short circuit other items. Everything should have it's own independent wire[s].
And I won't run Klipper it was designed as a crutch for older 8bit boards. Now that Marlin 2.1.2 has Linear Advance and Input Shaping. There is no reason for Klipper to exist.
Im honestly not so sure what to think about the x axis drag chain. If the wires are not built for drag chains they will break sooner or later, many voron users switch to umbilical style wiring for the xy motion in order to improve reliability. For z it makes perfectly sense as there is so little movement.
Do you have any idea why they chose such a awkward nozzle length and not just use a regular volcano? From my knowledge some cr10 variant used a volcano with a titan extruder, so nothing new in theory.
Sovol has also such nozzle i think, in the sv06 plus. Also couldn't think of any reason why to go for that style, haven't seen them anywhere else.
I think Sovol and Creality are related somehow... They share a lot of similar parts. I couldnt tell you the rationale, it is an odd thing.
Great video, man. I am deciding between a CR-M4 and a K1 Max at the moment. Any ideas? (Subbed!)
K1 Max won't be shipping for at least a month, CR-M4 seems nice, but Neptune Max is much cheaper.
@@NathanBuildsRobots thanks for your reply. I am willing to wait if the K1 MAX is worth it. I am not that impatient 😅
That thing is yuuuuuge. Good show, Nathan.... as usual 😺😺
Just out of curiosity: was wondering that a lot of 3D printing TH-camrs from the U.S. are using metric measurements and part sizes instead of imperial. Did there something silently change in the U.S. regarding imperial?
I think the younger generation of engineers has a preference for metric. Also, it helps that most consumer grade printers are made in foreign countries. So fasteners and software are all set to metric by default.
Plus, nobody wants to describe the flow rate in cubic inches per second, or densities in pound per cubic inch... its all so awful. Much happier to work in metric!
@@NathanBuildsRobots Great to hear that. Lived a long "full metric live" but having experienced quite a handful of different currencies I suspect it might not the easiest thing to "feel" in two completely different systems of measurements. We internalize all kinds of lengths, weights, heights, volumes, speeds, distances and more in a live time that I find it hard to imagine learning a second "kind of language" for all these things.
I'm new to this. How do you adjust the slice for the new size tip?
I enjoyed your demonstration and tips on the printer and it is obvious that you have said the word printer more than 5 times. Were as other people don't have a clue what they are doing or talking about. Thanks chum and great video.
Why are you saying that you are not seeing the point of high accelerations corexy design brings? What I am missing? The bottleneck for speed is not the melt rate of nozzles if you are using a cht 1mm nozzle and 0.24mm layer height. (Which is the near ideal layer height for good layer adhesion for 1mm nozzles)
The point is: most of yall have your printer sitting idle 95% of the time and complain about them printing too slow 😅
Speed printing tends to smell bad and make a lot of noise. So I tend not to go all speed racer mode for no reason. Only time you NEED that speed is when rapidly iterating prototypes. Which I don't do more than once a month.
I will probably print at 1.1mm wide, 0.4mm tall travelling at 40-80mm/s for a volumetric flow rate of 15-25mm^3/s That will eat a spool of filament in about 16 hrs
If I want to print lots of filament I can do vase mode 1.8mm CHT at 5x2mm bead. Going 60mm^3/s would equate to a printhead speed of 6mm/s and would eat up a spool in about 5 hrs. I could push it faster, and go 100mm^3/s, at 10mm/s, which I might do just for 1 video to show off, destroying a spool in maybe 4 hrs? That 5 kg spool would be toast in under 24 hrs.
It's not necessary unless I were going into production mode.
Push things too fast, and things break more often. Slow and steady wins the race for me. Plus excessive cooling that many high speed printers use can lead to weak parts.
Ha, say that to a Bambu Lab x1c printer. It laughs at your slow speeds.
best put on my helmet iam about to print! print quality wont be there long with that ptfe lined hot end. ahh
Safety thirst! Also, I replaced the ptfe lined horns right away.
This video has me cracking up between the booze and the shake-removal method hahah. Well done.
This vs the Anycubic Kobra Max would be a good comparison.
And the Elegoo Neptune 3 Max
Tell them to send me one! I have been consistently reaching out to them.
Apparently I am on the list to try one of the Neptune printers when they have them in stock in April. I have not heard back from Anycubic.
www.anycubic.com/pages/contact-us
www.elegoo.com/pages/support
@@NathanBuildsRobots the only downside of the Neptune 3 Max are the bed springs. I might buy one and replace them with aluminium spacers, since it has a bed leveling sensor anyways. And the heatbreak PTFE liner needs replacement if you want a full metal hotend assembly
Not surprised the screws are loose after manhandling the box the way you did
Next up, see how hard it is to find each one of those pieces scattered in the room
14:34 - ... It had a variance of ONLY 1 mm ??? In my book, that is WAY too much!
If the bed was off by 1 degree it would cause an 8-13 mm variance, so the fact that it is only about 1mm of variance is quite good. It’s off by maybe 0.1 degree, and quite flat despite the size of the bed
Check what kind of variance the PRUSA XL has
Why u slam it around like that though? lol
I was trying to adjust the alignment of the little pulley belt system in the rear of the machine. Ultimately it was the wax line that really cut down in the nose so I’m not sure if the hammering did anything.
Has it broke yet? My hotend failed after 3 prints, now I’m trying to get a refund from creality..
In the video you can see the hotend leak. I fixed it and it has been solid ever since.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I'm trying to get a refund from Creality, They sent me a new hot end & cabling but it hasn't resolved the problem. I keep getting an Error code E07. . I regret buying this printer 😞
we dont need a sonic pad we have a Pi4 :) nice vid good printer but you can up grade the ender3 with v-slots to the same size. but thats for us moders ......
Halarious video!
Impressive bedslinger but should be xy-core for the price.
There is always the Tronxy X5SA if you want CoreXY. Its a 500x500 corexy printer, but it is missing some features like direct drive extruder, and who knows what the quality is like.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I'm pleased with my ratrig at that price, but you do have to assemble.
Just a heads up, your discord link is broken…
Bro you should print a massive Lucky 13 (see on printables) with this it could be super funny
Wow, I could probably print it life size without having to glue and parts together
@@NathanBuildsRobots Yea but the clearance needed between pieces is hell trust me. I struggled so hard building it.
I think thay copped the elegoo Neptune max
seems like an Ender 30
same problems as the 3... times 10!
jk looks like a good machine but just crazy to ship it as a low-flow printer (no klipper, no input shaping, 0.4mm nozzle, etc) especially for the price
like how are you ever supposed to take advantage of that build volume in the Z axis! Practically a 2D printer as shipped.
Right, well it seems you have to mod it to get it to live up to expectations. Not too much of a problem for me, and I kind of like the challenge of modifying these to suit my use-case. But I know some people prefer a more out-of-the-box experience.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I'm all for modding, but the price should reflect that. I bought my S1 for £220 (about $300) brand new. I'd rather buy 3 more for less money to have the same build volume (x, y) than buy one of these. I'd also have 4x the extruders running at 150mm/s each with the sonic pad
The numbers just don't add up with the m4.
@@iamdmc Yeah, I can see that. However, I have some projects that I have not been able to do until now due to build area limitations. I have some designs that can be made in 1-3 pcs that would have otherwise need to be made in out of 4-12 pcs.
Having multiple pieces drives up cost, complexity, and difficulty to model and assemble, and failure points so for me, personally, this 450 build area is a game changer.
@@iamdmc And, given the price, I agree, it should be in a perfectly working state - not needing trivial stuff like nozzle tightening, wheel tensioning, heatbreak replacement, belt lubing, bed screw tightening, etc.
A premium price should have premium build quality, fit, and finish,
@@iamdmc I think this would make a lot more sense in the $800-$1000 price range. $1100 seems a bit much.
Nice helmet! Safety is sexy!
Yeah. Definitely an interesting size comparison.
printing an enclosure for my P1P in one piece would be an interesting project
@@NathanBuildsRobots How large do the panels have to be for the P1P?
@@AndrewAHayes not sure of the exact dimensions, but the whole P1P fits on the build tray, so it should be able to engulf the whole thing in 1 print. would be cool to do a print-in-place door hinge mechanism ad just drop it in when finished printing
Clearly insufficient torque was used on that nozzle, two clicks isn't nearly enough.
Yeah, the heat brakes being different lengths is a known thing, not sure why it doesn't get mentioned more. The Mk8 PTFE lined heat breaks have a super long separation/break zone in the middle, whereas all the all metal heat brakes are usually just clones of the E3d Kraken heat brake and have a much shorter break zone and are just that bit shorter.
There are now Mk8 specific all metal hot ends but you have to be careful what you get.
I really wish the industry would just pick a standard and stick with it. Everything is +- 2mm here and there when it comes to heatbreaks and nozzles.
Best V-wheel procedure: don’t use V-wheels
Lol. I really don’t mind them. At least they used linear rails where it was important, on the Y axis. When that tray is loaded up with 2-3kg of plastic, having a super rigid bed and Y axis will be a print saver
You should have changed the background music to One Burbon, One Scotch.... George version.
You are evil. How could you not finish that print?😢
I've got to push these reviews out man! Next 10 projects are already nipping at my heels.
I have a cr-m4 and never had to mod shit. Besides the Kobra 2 max from anycubic puts this one to shame .
worst printer I've ever used! Replaced every part on this machine & it still displays the error code E07.. I feel completely ripped off by Creality..
cool sty
If anyone is watching this video and living in NJ looking for a full-time job running my 3D printing lab, contact me.
What are you printing?
@@NathanBuildsRobots everything. Resin, filament, high temperature materials, metals, ceramic, etc....
Hi grade whiskey - thafuq dude? Might as well have used coca cola to wash it off.. there’s probably 60% of impurities there.. using windex might be a better option..
Not the best review, as you just did a bunch of stuff to it that I’m not gonna do..
Run as it is straight from the box so I can se what to expect..
I have seen half the video , and come to the conclusion that this printer need complete make over in order to work properly. For who did they build this?
Sorry, great tutorial! But I am so dissapointed because specs seem so great! But thanks to people like you, I realize I should never buy this printer....because it is so damn unreliable and loud....that any sane person would feel the urge to mod the hack out of this. To come back to the reason of wanting this printer: print big stuff as it comes.
Is that possible with this printer? And better use isopropanol;-) (Althought the other taste a lot better!)
Worst Printer I have ever used! & Customer Service is useless. I had to purchase the Kobra Max because I was losing money, waiting for parts from Creality, The Kobra Max is so much better than this, Can't believe I wasted £1099 on the CRM4 when the Kobra Max is half the price & better in Speed, Quality & Noise.
Not sure the Kobra Max could keep up in volumetric flow rate using a Bowden tube extruder, but yeah this thing is loud and needs some fixes straight out of the factory. Unfortunate
@@NathanBuildsRobots my banks been chasing a refund from Creality as they have no spare parts in stock. been waiting 6 weeks for the mother board.
:)
So unnecessary
Creality extruders/hotends are such crap. I don't even install them, straight in the trash anymore.
I would agree with everything prior to the sprite being garbage. I really like the sprite though. It’s not perfect, but it does remarkably well at high flow rate printing, which is what I’m into. Also the print quality is really nice at standard settings.