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I find it kind of sad that swapping between your weapons in a specific order to deal more damage is the only advanced tech in the game. I honestly would have enjoyed the game more If it included actual Interactions between weapons like shooting your weapons in the air to make it explode in more complex games like Ultrakill😢.
Seeing Decino play this on Nightmare, I can confidently say, no, not quite. You can get by playing Doom Eternal even on harder difficulties without quick swapping specifically. And to the main point, do you have to quick swap to have fun in Doom Eternal or let alone play the game? The answer is also the same. The easier difficulties is just as fun and prepares you for the harder difficulty levels if you feel like you're ready. If you're a new player, be a new player. Nobody starts Doom Eternal like they're born with a mouse and keyboard in their hands.
You're right. Nightmare is easily playable and beatable without quick swapping. I can do quick swapping, I don't enjoy it. I got through Nightmare on TAG1 without quick-swapping and it's a fun challenge.
@@neighbourhoodmusician Even to this day, I believe Doom Eternal's true optimal strategy is knowing your arsenal, situation, and enemy you're gonna handle. Which is to be fair, it has always been something since the original games. People think you have to be Bob Munden with your mouse and keyboard when basic gaming sense and skills can carry you for quite a distance. If Doom Eternal can truly be defined by just one or two kinds of playstyles, then it wouldn't make sense why a lot of its player base praise it a lot. New and older players and fans alike.
Yes it is doable I'm a noob doom player and I played on nightmare because i wanted a challenge and I'm not good a quick swapping but I was able to finish that game. The only time I was kinda forced to swapping is to fight the guys with the axe and shield (I forgot the name)
The problem is once you see how quickly you can kill stuff with Quick Swap, it becomes an Ultimate strategy because of the insane DPS, So you feel obligated to use it if you are getting your ass beat.
I started to play on my Legion Go (a bigger steam deck)zand it was refreshing, it has back paddles so you can have better mobility but not having direct access to the insane quick swaps was interesting.
doom eternal players when they have to quick swap to the gongloid rifle into a binkulus blast with a fonguloid alt fire instead of simply using the flamethrower, iceblast, iceblast: the sequel, grenade, and then chainsaw
To be fair the gongloid rifle has an animation cancel and the binkulus blast actually gives you some i-frames, so it's no wonder they've taken over the meta.
This video reminds me, I had a pop-up window appear to me while playing ARC Complex recently. It reminded me that quick swapping was a thing, and seeing it encouraged me to actually try it out and I could definitely feel the difference when killing heavy demons. I'm not very good at quick swapping, so I was mainly just tapping the Q key to swap between the super shotgun and the ballista. It's interesting because I don't remember seeing that window pop up before. Before, I was only using the SSG+ballista combo to maximise damage when dealing with the Marauder. Quick swapping is tricky (at least for me), but it's also a fun way to quickly melt other demons, so I don't get why some say that they don't enjoy it. I'll try and remember to use it more often and to experiment with other combos from now on. Loving these new Doom Eternal videos. It's always interesting to explore things with the benefit of hindsight.
that popup was definitely added after the release, i remember seeing it i think after TAG 1 dropped, I am okay with the inclusion of quick swapping in the game but people who die by it annoy me, its almost an exploit and to act like its the intended playstyle is so dumb
If you're having trouble with quick swapping, try binding your weapons to keys that sit near your fingers naturally during gameplay (I think I have mine bound to like 12345, Q, R, and E (of course rebinding keys as you need them) and turn off the weapon wheel. Sure, it sounds like it makes the game harder, but once you remembered what key pulls out what weapon, it becomes significantly easier to quick swap.
@@RipRLeeErmey I currently have keys 1, 2, 3, and 4 bound to the Shotgun, Heavy Cannon, Super Shotgun, and Plasma Rifle respectively. Those keys are within easy reach and I have memorised which weapons they bring up. After seeing that pop-up window, I've been experimenting with binding the Ctrl, Z, X, and C keys to the BFG/Unmaykr, Chaingun, Ballista and Rocket Launcher respectively. I may alter this later depending on how well things go. How do I turn off the weapon wheel?
@@NoXion100 If you want to get rid of the wheel entirely, you can do that by unbinding it so that it's not assigned to any key. To unbind, do what you do when binding something to a key, but select the key that you're currently using for the wheel instead of selecting a different key. Personally, I like having access to the weapon wheel- I don't use it to switch weapons but it's a handy way to check how much ammo I have in all of my weapons.
@@danielwilliams3393 Ah, I was hoping that I'd be able to just disable the weapon wheel part when using the Q key, and just have it as a "swap to last used weapon" key like in Half-Life. I can do that now just by tapping the Q key, but normally I don't use the weapon wheel at all.
Considering 2016 had it, it probably will not as a feature but a byproduct. To negate it they would have to deliberately implement cooldowns when swapping between weapons, which would feel very uncomfortable.
One of the main issues I have with a lot of shooters is how you're either limited in how many weapons you can carry (looking at you, BioShock) or the majority of weapons are so esoteric & specific to an uncommon scenario that you only wind up using two or three for the majority of the game. The variety of weapons in Doom Eternal and how each of them has a lot of utility (some more than others, but all of them are useful) is one of the game's strongest points, and I love how it encourages & trains you to use all of them.
For me, the answer is very simple. I was replaying Doom Eternal's main campaign on Nightmare difficulty when I got to the part where it puts you in a purple slime hallway and spawns a hellknight in front of you. When that happened, a tutorial prompt came up teaching me how to quickswap the power weapons. I don't know if that tutorial prompt existed way back when the game came out, but it exists now and the message is clear: quickswapping the weapons is now considered a common gameplay mechanic to be designed around. (funniest part is that it isn't even the only way to deal with that hellknight; I had cryo grenades too!)
That tutorial was added after I did a video mentioning that that there should be a quick swap tutorial because it's an awesome thing to know about and leads to higher fun. It was never talked about when the game launched, and never intended by the devs as "the way to play". But they realized a lot of people found great fun in it and more players should learn about it. They embraced it. But the game is still perfectly enjoyable and beatable without it as the majority of causal players play without it.
Doing no upgrades runs of 2016 taught me to quickswap before Eternal even came out. I don't quickswap constantly, moreso on specific enemies or in high pressure moments. Hugo has said the game is completely beatable on controller where quickswapping isn't quite doable. That said, quickswapping takes out the Mancubus insanely quick (pbolt one cannon, ballista the other, rocket to his body, then meathook in for a SSG blast. It's incredibly satisfying.) I've also never strayed from good ol' SSG+ballista against the Marauder. I also came up with a SSG+microwave beam quickswap combo that completely humilates Barons and Tyrants and locks them down and takes them out quite quickly (doesn't work against Archviles sadly, they break out of it.) There's also weapon mods that deal pretty good damage without quickswapping. Full Auto, Micro Missiles, Lock On, Mobile Turret... Pair them with either grenade type or a blood punch and you can delete enemies almost as quick as quickswapping.
I never understood why Eternal got this much criticism for it, but when 2016 did it, no one cared. You'll even see people claim they prefer 2016 because you don't quickswap- like they clearly never played MP.
Switching from ssg and batista only takes 2 buttons on pc and only one if on controller with the recall last gun thing, that at least is pretty doable. Also people forget about the gun dial.
it's not a quickswapping game, it's just the game pushing you into learning a particular playstyle, which you will more than likely take full advantage of once you learn the game. understanding the game itself is key, not learning complicated combos
Didn't the Quick Swap mechanic once used to be this cool gimmick on release which actually later on became an real offical in-game mechanic mentioned through the tutorial itself months AFTER the game's release ? I think that's pretty cool...that'll be like if someone figures out animation cancelling and later game introduce it an actual mechanic rather than nerfing or out right removing because some devs see it as an harmful exploit.
isn't that what happened with fighting games? at first animation cancelling, counters and stuff like that were considered glitches, now they are woven into all fighting games.
it was a cool gimmick in 2016, in Eternal it was intended from the start. Note that quickswapping in Eternal isn't nearly as game-breaking as it was in 2016 (double-tap SSG into insta-Siege, anyone?)
I beat the game without quickswapping while on console so I say it isn't really required tbh (unless you try ultra nightmare or something lol). Yes it's powerful but it isn't mandatory. You can play normally and beat the game just fine.
I beat it on the Switch without anything too fancy. I used the weapon wheel button to toggle between 2 weapons sometimes when facing a boss or annoying pair of enemy types. (I liked the Super Shotgun + 2nd gun)
What difficulty did you try? Because I could only beat the game on hard on console. But once I switched to pc, kbm & learned quickswapping then nightmare became my main difficulty
@Jbeckjs I get the feeling that on console, it comes down to movement and evasion, because the goal isn't to kill things as fast as possible, but to stay alive and try to get the enemies to follow you to good positions before freezing, burning, grenading, etc. That alone will get huge multikills that refill you and scales with difficulty well. The pacing is different, but it is only harder if you're impatient.
I'm on pc and I prefer not to quick-swap. I like to play without doing it. I beat the game on medium difficulty and had a great time, none of my family and friends have disowned me... so far
Difficulty in game design is always a tough one, on the one hand you want to appeal to the broadest audience (money), but on the other hand you also want an in-depth system that caters to the core / or enthusiastic audience. Quick swapping also reminds me of the cod-meme 'lightning bolt, lightning bolt, magic missle, lightning bolt, lake of fire, lightning bolt, lightning bolt'.
1:35 Interestingly this doesn't necessarily apply to the cooldown for alt fires. If you get into weapon modding you can change Precision Bolt so that its cooldown doesn't get skipped when you switch weapons. I think they actually did this sometime after the game released but reverted it after pushback from the community like you said. I sort of wonder if the whole arsenal would be better balanced if they had acknowledged weapon combos right from the start, like increasing the DPS of rapid-fire weapons to be a bit closer to what you can do with quickswapping. The gap in damage output between playing with quickswapping and playing without it is huge which is probably why a lot of people feel like you "have to" quickswap to play the game well.
i have poor motor skills with my fingers on keyboard, when i got my first gaming pc i got doom eternal as my first game and beat it on UV, i couldnt hit the number keys to go to each weapon directly, but got down quick swapping with the Q key between my current and previous weapon. Made me more comfortable on K&M, i love this game!
@@WarningStrangerDanger i’ve experimented with a 1-9 on mouse and i have a hard time actually hitting the one i want, my mouse has two thumb buttons that ive made to be x and alt usually depending on the game
When the game came out , i played it with a controller ( which makes swapping harder ) and i didn't use any weapon swapping , right until the marauder fight where that fight pushed me to swap between the super shotgun and ballista , and i finished the game with occasionally quick swapping between 2 weapons ( fire weapon 1 , press LB , fire weapon 2 ) without the crazy combos you see . So it's not necessary but i believe the more you play the game and the harder the difficulty, the more you'll naturally start doing it .
I'm the guy that made videos against player elitism and championed underused weapon mods like full auto, microwave beam, and remote detonation. You literally couldn't be more wrong.
@@underthemayo "said it in a pretty humorous way ,I exaggerated so far that it had to be taken as a joke , I foolishly thought there's no way you would have taken it seriously , boy was I wrong "
6:16 hahah this is one of the few times i genuinely like what you have to say! Ive screamed about this while it was happening. The whole quick swapping thing was a huge turn off. Visiting DE strims was like watching the same gameplay. And to have the dlcs, master levels (and even horde mode) designed around it made me completely lose interest in the game and the community overall as if the game was now exclusively for the elites. Thanks for this video.
Fun is always the hardest thing to get when playing a video game nowadays, there are always some sort of "pro" bitching about how this game should be played, but they are acturally dont have fun. If you really want to see how bad this kind of behaviour can be, you can learn more about TF2's MvM mode, in there, if you dont do what the community said. You will get bullied and kicked.
In my personal experience, I feel like the game forced quickswapping on me at times in order to continue. I am really not good at at it at all, but my poor attempts to quickswap like the pros was _good enough_ to get me by. Absolutely wouldn't have gotten by without the mechanic. This is in Tag 1, by the way. I don't feel forced to quickswap anywhere else.
It doesn't force quick swapping, it forces faster action and more focus. Blood punch usage, grenade setups, better ammo management, ice bombs on priority targets, group flame belches. You just gotta play the game better. Using Quick Swap is simply one way of doing that.
@@underthemayo Yeah whatever, say whatever you have to in order to justify your point. Forcing faster action is the same as saying it forces quickswapping. You have to ACT FASTER. Playing the game better IS quickswapping. It's easy to understand why you're not really that liked in the doom community...
Great video and analysis. I’m not a high level player, but as I played through Eternal, I never learned or cared to learn quick-swapping combos. I frequently bounced around the map, creating space to keep the AI’s pressure off of me while I would select a weapon based on the weak points of whatever targets I wanted to prioritize, and then focused on those enemies before making sure I had space to think about which target I wanted to tackle next, pull up the wheel, and select my next weapon. No, I wasn’t speedrunning Ultra-Nightmare; I was casually playing through Hurt Me Plenty, but I had fun throughout the entire campaign. The idea that a game absolutely must be completed as quickly as possible on the highest difficulty while using every possible exploit to be played “the right way” is stupid. At the end of the day, it’s a game. It’s supposed to be fun. Eternal provided a fun challenge that genuinely tested me and also made me a better FPS player overall.
I just recently got through ultra nightmare first time with my trusty ol' Nintendo switch. Nothing is less convinient with a Switch than quick swapping as your main strategy. Also weapon swapoing animation feels way slower on switch than it looks like on PC, so yea its not neccessary but flashy af, I envy PC gamer but I'm a broke student.
This generalizes to pretty much every game with a high skill ceiling. And you're right community matters most. In BroodWar, my childhood game, I came back with the SCII announcement, learned people were absolutely cracked, and started playing and practicing that way. For a new, modern AAA game, absolutely even the crackedest speedrunners could do a lot of good by being like "yeah, this technique melts the devil folk, but if you're just starting it you can just play, don't worry lol."
Ego Shooter Veteran here, I like Doom but hate quickswapping. Was fun to play on ultra violence :) Wouldnt say its necessary to have fun but surely the meta if you wanna "go pro"
I completely agree. My first playthrough was on PS4, and as I always try to extend my gametime while playing a game, I tend to select the highest difficulty. I fell in love with Doom Eternal, and I completed the campaign on Nightmare without much thought on optimizing my damage output outside of just using high damagin weapons. While already loving the game, I discovered quick swapping. Fast forward to today, Doom made me build a PC and buy it again for PC. I truly believe you are one of the best figures in the community, even though there are some points you have made in other videos to which I disagree. It is just how it is, but seriously, thank you for the passion you put into all Doom Eternal videos!
Although the game doesn't require quick swapping, I will say that once you learn it you can't really go back. It is by far the best way to increase you DPS fairly easily, meaning that DPS mods like the mobile turret or the micro missiles end up being rarely used. Even worse, weapons that neither dish out high DPS nor fit into quick switching combos like the Plasma Rifle end up becoming obsolete.
There's still a lot of variety in high level play though. When you have 8 guns with 3 fire modes each, you can expect them all to equal once you know the game. But then not everyone plays for DPS. I play more about the falter system.
@@underthemayo Sure, most people don't play specifically for DPS, however, killing enemies fast is an inherent motivation to any combat shooter. Doom Eternal is actually a ton of fun without quick swapping (With maybe the exception of Master Levels), but it is far more efficient and in some ways less complex to quick swap than learning all of the mods. I think ID recognized how prevalent and efficient swapping was with how difficult they've made their Master Levels
Yeah dps will always be king in a single player campaign. At least the game does a good job at getting you into general variety so you're already booked on the fun and can decide what you like from there. I still do a lot of dps too of course.
Like in JRPGs the difficulty comes from the level differences between yourself and the enemy, and the way to beat them is either through careful buffing and out damaging your opponents or by maximizing how much EXP you can get out of an encounter you can easily go beyond the level that the game expects you to be and you can use brute force to go through it. It’s all about which style you prefer.
"A lot of people didnt use quick swapping in the game." True. However, if you want to beat the game on one of the higher difficulty setting, you basically have to do it. If you avoid it, you'll get the feeling that the game was meant to be played with quick swapping. "This is were a lot of high level fun is found in Doom." Okay, what do you define as "high level fun"? What is fun and what is not is bound to an individual. Calling quick swapping as "high level fun" sounds to me like an attempt to divide the community. People using quick swapping are considered to have a higher level of fun than others who do not use quick swapping.
"you have to quick swap to beat the game on a higher difficulty" is the most ridiculous lie I've heard in a while. The VAST MAJORITY of people who played doom eternal have never quick swapped. I beat it on nightmare, and months later on ultra nightmare without even knowing what quick swapping was. Most console players don't use quick swapping. You don't know what you're talking about.
And "high level fun' is not an attempt to divide the community lol what are you on about? They're just the players that engage in the higher execution mechanics, pushing the game to its limits.
I tried to beat Eternal on nightmare using quick swapping and I found it totally overwhelming-I kept losing track of which weapon was at which binding and like, having to hesitate before each swap (which, of course got me killed a lot). I told myself I’d set new keybinds and practice with them, but I never got around to it.
Doom eternal is like xonotic used to be and still is, quick swapping is advantageous but sometimes sticking to fewer or just a certain weapon depending on the context, can be a good choice just as much. Quake 3, live and 4 (the games which doom 3, doom eternal and 2016 clearly are shaped on) forced players to alternate using a single weapon in certain situations and to switch them in others by making combos, quake champions put this philosophy to the extreme by adding abilities in the mix as well, it is indeed the hardest quake to play by considering just the mechanics themselves imo....
I appreciate it that other users were showing quick swapping. I never knew about it when I first played Eternal and when I saw others doing it, it made me want to do that and be successful. Quick swapping is a big reason I still play the game over 4 years later.
"Because the vast majority of people..." Presumptive nonsense from someone who isn't an ordinary player. The vast majority of people probably never get through the game. (according to Steam achievements only 32% finish on any level.) And no one that does -- even on easy -- doesn't have some idea that quick swapping is essential.
To be fair its pretty obvious he means people that actually at least played and/or cleared DE, if you consider everyone that just plays 1-2 hours and bails then we arent talking about people that you can use to fairly assess the game. Although that would be hilariously disingenuous if that was the video we got, almost wish we did.
@@SparePencils "To be fair its pretty obvious he means people that actually at least played and/or cleared DE" So not someone like me who has only finished once, but put in 300 hours playing the first two/thirds of the game, eh (400 if you believe Steam). I would rather play D2016. It's a more straightforward shooter. But you miss the point, no one can play through DE more than once on anything but easy and not have to learn a few fighting combos. Mayo isn't talking for the average player here when so few manage to finish the game.
He is trying to use the hype created with the trailer of the new game. Since he is not relevant anymore, the options are to do this or shitposting on ultrakill
To be fair, quickswapping existed already in Doom2016 s an unlockable upgrade. Considering that in Doom Eternal it is given to the player right away, - the devs at ID indeed intended for it to be there and taken advantage of. And it is a good trick, which when used in moderation - does make the game more impactful and more fun. Hell, i use it in every game that allows it! But in excessive manner - when all weapons just become a constant blinking blur - it is a turn-off, cause you don't get to visually enjoy the full spectacle of monster-slaying: you don't see the weapon animations, you don't see how rockets travel from your gun barrel and into the enemies, you don't see how Doomslayer reloads his shotgun and so on. With this approach, the entire weapon HUD could've been removed, - switched off, and just replaced with a colored crosshair (in a true DE fashion, lol), or a colored vignette. Red is for shotgun, Blue is for rockets, Green is Ballista...you get the gist🤣. And i am willing to bet that if this was an existing option - there would be tons of people who would use it immediately. Fun is indeed subjective, and just like there are ways to bolster it, there are ways to derail it. Or simply make it "not fun enough" to the degree that it is "no fun at all". Sometimes, the gameplay is good, but the presentation and dilution of it with unrelated filler - creates a deal-breaker.
Great take. Doom Eternal is designed to be dynamic and flexible to different levels of player engagement. I tried using quick swap techniques during my various runs with the game, but I'm not proficient with it. I primarily set myself up with two weapons that will be most useful depending on the combat encounter, use the quick swap key as a way to switch between them when I need to. Otherwise I'm a weapon wheel man through and through.
This video is very encouraging for console players. I beat Eternals campaign on XBox but it was extremely frustrating. I couldn't do most of the fast pace "quick swapping " the cool youtube videos showed so I simply gave up and ignored the DLC. I feel re-engaged now and am going to download the game again and try a more natural play through, as Mayo described. I hear the DLC is hard so I may need to put my ego in check and dial down the difficulty... but why not?
TLDR at the bottom ----------- I wasn’t around when mayo started his doom eternal vods in the beginning, but would eventually watch it later. Speaking about fun.. I first played eternal on switch which is 30 fps. I never knew the difference that 60 could make at the time, and I’m also a controller player . After a while, I got addicted to eternals gameplay, and I never owned a shooter except goldeneye or nightfire.. but slowly but surely I was able to be it on the switch on nightmare mode. And in all that… did not quick swap. I got doom on the pc to experience 60 fps and I figured out a few things. - I wasn’t quick swapping correctly ( because it thought I had been doing it) - controller was harder to pull off quick swap, but was impressed how well the game taught me to switch weapons that I do it instinctually( I am switching, but not optimally) - I know I wasn’t quick swapping correctly when I saw people get 3 shots on a juggernaut (not including the stagger combo here) when I only could get 2 TLDR i still had a ton of fun and I didn’t have to weapon swap correctly. Yesterday, I beat it on ultra violent on pc to warm up to nightmare on and i didn’t die once, which just goes to show how much i improved... and im still using controller
When I first played this game on Ultra-Violence, I struggled a lot, I was waiting for weapon recoveries between bad movement and died quite a few times. Quick swapping wasn't in mind, but even still I had a ton of fun playing, near the end I was normal swapping to destroy weak points and deal a lot of damage with heavy weapons. So the game isn't built around it, but once I saw a video on Mayo absolutely decimating super heavy demons with icebombs, frags and quickswap combos I thought... Nah no way, the game can't be played this way surely. So few arenas later I got some basic combos down, prescision bolt + rocket and then stuff like frag + meathook shotgun blast + blood punch + balista + frag + rocket lock on repeat. Then from scratch jumped into nightmare with weapon quick swapping and better movement. My god, the game went from fun the best damn shooter I played. I feel Quick Swapping is there if you want to access higher difficulties and do well, it's not necessary but it makes the oppressive Heavy and Super Heavy Demons in Nightmare and probably UN a cinch while looking cool af. It's fine if people don't want to play that way, and most of them have their fun on a casual playthrough but since quick swapping is intuitive to the game... I think people should try it out at least once in an arena past Exultia.
Tangentially, I did an entire UN playthrough without ever unlocking the Precision Bolt and mostly using (after the first four levels) the autoshotty. Rendering my edit of that playthrough as we speak. Anyway, while I did unlock Hot Swap as a formality, I don't think I abused it as much as I really needed to (ballista boosting and bhopping, on the other hand...). So yeah, I agree.
I have recently been watching through your old doom vids and this is 1 one of the 2 things this community has to remember for darkages. 1- dont harrase players to play in a certain way. 2- the tag 2 situation where need to communicate better with id if any issues are there
No, you're wrong. Hugo Martin explicitely told in one of his interviews, that the Marauder was created specifically around fast-swapping mechanic. That's the only way to defeat him without much stress.
A friend of mine started playing UN and he is dead set on beating it like that. He did all of what you said, he explored the game on his own and when I showed him the wonders of quick swapping, his enjoyment of the game increased and is still increasing. You really need to learn the game on your own before you jump into the more high level play. My journey looked like that, most of us had that probably.
The more you tell someone that Doom Eternal can only be played through a specific and effective way, the more you are gonna undersell what's fun about it in the first place. The game is made to be fun and chaotic yet overall, very efficient. And one optimal method is the opposite of chaotic. It's not just Doom that has this concept to be fair. All great games encourage this type of mindset. Diablo II encourages your own preference before you are dead set on fixing on a certain build to tackle higher challenges, Blood makes you get familiarized with your arsenal before you handle Well Done or Extra Crispy. It's also why a lot of people find Dark Souls hard even though, there are a lot of varieties of builds you can do in it that don't remotely require one specific play style.
This video is an eye opener for me. I've been put off by seeing those quick swapping gameplays and thinking I lack the mechanical skill to pull it off. I've always been a "do few things well" kind of player (coming from battlefield, r6 etc.) and lack the ability to juggle multiple things quickly. This kinda changed my mind about it and I might actually buy 2016 and eternal.
Hearing mayo say, "Who cares how people play if they're having fun?" is surreal. The same dude who runs defense on Hugo Martin fundamentally changing the 2016 game loop because "people were playing it wrong" now thinks youre not allowed to critique the consequences of that very decision.
The idea of people "playing the game wrong" in 2016 is not that simple. The change was not a response to people "playing it wrong and having fun". It's not about judging people's fun. It was instead a response to how easy it was to fall into boring play, NOT HAVE FUN, and then dismiss the game as dumb. How easy it was to "not get it". But you're taking me out of context. I'm saying that if people are having fun in a game, don't harass them. That's not the same thing as wanting to craft a different gameplay experience in another game. If you're playing a game and you're having fun and you're finding success, chances are you aren't playing wrong. However note that I was very careful to say "chances are." This is not a universal statement. And the terms "have fun" and "find success" are crucial to be together. There are plenty of games out there where it's super easy to be successful from level 1 by just doing boring repetitive stuff and ignoring 90% of what the game offers. If you have fun with that, hey, great. But you can't argue that that's good game design.
I definitely enjoyed this game before discovering quick swapping. On nightmare I was getting my ass handed to me, and I stumbled across one of your videos. I was on Xbox at the time and after practicing, I was able to beat TAG 1 on ultra nightmare while controller quick swapping. As soon as I bought my PC… man the fun went up to 11. My girlfriend has a harder time understanding quick swapping, but she enjoyed the game without it and I think that’s what it should be all about anyway. Good video!
In my first play through of the game I was overly dependant on sticky bombs, always forgot to use the flame for armour and never even used the ice bomb! Let alone worry about weapon swapping. It was overwhelming for me but in my future play throughs on a harder setting I was doing all of these things. It gave the game amazing replay value.
idk why my first two playthroughs were with a controller before I got into really tryhardalism and mods. Didn't quick swap, just enjoyed the flow, the same as I did with 2016. After learning Eternal I completely changed how I play 2016. Thanks for all the content!
I "queue up" my quick swaps and certainly cannot swap how you do, Mr mayo. And that's perfectly fine Before a battle I'll select Balista/SSG and will flick away at Q to swap between the two, then bring up the weapon wheel and just switch to what I need to. It's a moment to assess the situation and think about what mods I'll need and who's on the board
Hey Mayo will you planned on reviewing Doom Eternal mod again? There's a new mod called "Hell's Abyss" and it's a really big and impressive mod in technical level but seem like no one know about it yet. You did say before that you'll be back when there a big community mod drop
@@RaidenWithBiden in term of difficulty not that hard (at least on the balance version) but what special about it is the creativity. There's ton of custom geomatry make the level look nothing like the original, new custom enemies, new boss, re-using some of the best tracks from Doom 2016. And plenty of cool thing
@@RaidenWithBidenit aint too bad. There are currently 3 versions (not exactly sure what their names are) but it's something like: balanced, unbalanced and CBT (CBT being the hardest). But, the CBT version is said to be an old file on Nexus because it was too hard lol. But I still did the first arena of the CBT version while only using slow weapon wheel switching (so no quick switching) and the video is on my channel, a little self promotion heheh
I remember when I started playing I’d get frustrated bc every video I saw quickswaping looked crazy and I couldn’t do that with my Xbox but I learned that you don’t necessarily need to do crazy quickswaping to have fun
It was hard to achieve quick swapping for me, but it is so fits for game "getting ammo system" that make a lot of fun. What makes you a real DoomGuy even in Hardcore or Nightmare. But they complain that there is not enough ammo for them, what show them as kids that don't want to accept developers vision of the game, it's rules. They want "a choice" that would make a game into casual experience. Like you can choose easy difficulty, but they want hardcore and nightmare and then they dont want to learn new, cause they "dont like it". I dont know, when i was playing quake3 it was sooo funny to make combos when circumstances are changing. Like - different weapons for different situations. And now feels like ordinary player can't adapt or evolve, they are trying to make gameplay under them. To make it sandbox-like. They cant admit that they are not good enough what will move them to self improvement. This does not apply to new players who do not complain. Only for childish people, who don't want to grow, because life will force them to adapt anyway. And doom wanted to be a brutal game and quick swap give this opportunity to the game.
As a person who plays Doom Eternal on the Nintendo Switch… it’s generally harder to quick swap on controller because it only lets you swap between the gun you’re using now and the previous one. So when you do want to quick swap you have manually set it up with the weapon wheel, unlike keyboard players where you have all of your weapons with just a click of a key. That’s why I feel like that Doom Eternal on console is kind of harder than on PC for that reason… with an example being that it makes it harder to deal with the Marauder because it takes up a lot of time just switching between two weapons, making that window to deal damage to the Marauder seem smaller than it actually is
I WANT to. It's like Devil May Cry, You can finish the game just mashing randomly but the game has so many options that your personality can be displayed through the gameplay.
Coming from multiplayer FPS where comboing with burst weapons is just the most intuitive thing to do, I never once understood the "complaint" about swapping weapons back and forth. Complaints about nagging ammo management and shoehorned weapon roles, sure, but quickswapping by itself? Literally what's the issue? Like, I'm pretty sure someone was taking the piss and it just stuck as part of a laundry list of "new thing bad". People love drafting themselves into wars of us vs. them without really knowing why lol. But yeah, you don't even have to quickswap, because the game is so forgiving and lets you circle the arena forever in a battle of attrition. You can caveman your way through EVERY unmodded map as long as you tap your health/ammo/armor regen buttons every now and then.
This video is 200% valid for me. I was never a double barrel shotgunner in Doom 2016, I was a proper swapper, ...and a Pistol Charger/sniper!! ...An "all-weapons guy," swapping more than once every minute. I learned to run forward and become the terror. It was amazing. Finding the fun too slowly increasing in D.E., and hearing judgements against people "playing wrong," I judged myself as a D2016 guy, thinking "well, I don't have the time to put into Doom Eternal to enjoy it "right," so I guess I'll play something else. But games are supposed to be fun. I highly resonate with everything you've said in this video, and after watching, I'm far more likely to give Doom Eternal some more play time.
I just use the Super Shotgun for most things and switch to the Chain Gun whenever I get overwhelmed, works for me so far because I got through the main game and the 1st DLC playing like that.
If you're playing on Nightmare or Ultra-Nightmare difficulty, then yes, I would argue that quick-swapping is absolutely mandatory. You stand no chance without it. And with the DLC and later Master Levels, the devs basically expect players to utilize the technique consistently. By the time of Ancient Gods Part 2 release, quick-swapping went from an unintended quirk to "This is how we expect you to play the game."
I've played a lot of Eternal, but never quickswapped on purpose. I love the game tho. It's intimidating because everybody (you included) says that you need to quickswap to play the game seriously, and it's actually not true, you can reach a good level wthout bothering with this technique.
To me the quick swapping looks very boring, as I was drawn to the new Dooms because of the gameplay trailers showing a "combat dance", shooting and weaving to make it hard for enemies to kill you and killing them off. And because of Quick swap spamming, the Doom Eternal lets plays with skilled players have completely destroyed my interest in looking for Doom Eternal Lets plays completely. If the guns had a "1 shot magazines", which have to just complete the animation cycle after each shots, which won't complete if the gun is switched away, the quick swap would be good time to time method to add damage quickly and not something one could repeatedly use all the time to stunlock everything.
It is but not to the extent that players made it into to. The heavy cannon swap was never intended by the devs at launch and was even patched out of the game at one point (you can thank me and the Spicy Demons discord for that one) but was re-added as it became core to the games DNA.
I play this game from start to finish at least once every few months. There are some situations where I do quick swap but honestly I don't need to do it to be THAT efficient. I'll go through a fight just ripping through the fodder with the chain gun, occasionally fire a Rocket at something thick. Run out of ammo, switch to one of the shotguns or the plasma rifle...so on so forth. While I do admit that quick swapping is useful, I never really find it that necessary. You can totally play the game without the need to quick swap.
It's amazing how Doom Eternal managed to capture all the controversy of Souls games, while at the same time being so different -Gatekeepers: "don't use summons" / "do quick swap" -General public: "the game seems so hard, I better go play something else" -Game reviewers: "I can't get pass the tutorial" EDIT: You got it completely with that "you're not having fun the right way". I would just like to quote the PR team of Doom Eternal: "... You control the buttons you press"
I used to play doom 2016 for years using a very basic kind of quick swapping without any real thought put into it, before i even knew it was a strategy. The game seemed slower without swapping weapons and after playing it for so long since you didn't have a dash and stuff like that. But in eternal i just didn't carry it over originally when i played the game for the first time. Now i do quick swap occasionally when playing. So for me it was reversed i used to quick swap in 2016, but not in eternal.
Your argument is a bit feeble here. "Most people who play the game don't use X, so it's not an X game". Okay. But there is plenty of content in the game that all but require it, such as the Master Levels and NM+ clears. "But it's technically not a requirement"". Okay, but to play Doom Slayer ideally (or as ideally as you can) in Battle Mode, maximizing DPS, you will have to use it. "But it's technically not a requirement!". See how disingenuous it is? I guess Doom Eternal is also technically not a FPS for most of its encounters, but rather a melee game, since I can wait for one gas pip to regen, get only chainsaw kills and procure extra gas cans on the map to chainsaw bigger enemies, blood punching if possible. "But that's not how the majority of people play it" - And? What a game is and isn't shouldn't depend on a weird manner of democractic vote. Doom Eternal is a quick swapping game because it's essential to much of its deeper gameplay, nevermind if all areas of play or all levels of players make use of it.
This isn't entirely accurate. Quick swapping is a symptom, not the cause. What really happened is that people who liked Doom 2016 simply didn't get their game. Playing the game without quick swapping isn't like Doom 2016, it's still Doom Eternal, with low ammo counts, constant monkey bar swinging and constant chainsaw use on every third enemy. A sizeable portion of people didn't like that change in direction. Yeah, supershotgunning every enemy may not be fun according to the devs, but a lot of people simply liked D2016 just for that. The freedom and no bullshit approach, contrary to a lot of shooters at the time.
I'd argue that a more balanced approach is what makes DE shine the most. A pure quick swap playstyle is effective but gets tedious. I'm at a point where most games can't really hold my interest, but with Eternal, I find myself constantly experimenting with different mods and combos, raising my skill ceiling, and quick swap can really limit creativity and, in turn, longevity.
You know, I actually like quick swapping weapons. Makes gameplay a lot faster. Especially when you wanna clear that one level because you are in the hurry to do something else besides playing video games. But at the same time, very fast gameplay makes me feel dizzy. I mean, I can play with fast gameplay as long as I can but after that I feel like I'm drunk. So I think that id software need to do something about it and maybe in new Doom they fix the dizzy problem. Can't wait to see what Doom The Dark Ages has to offer, and the news about the fact that gameplay gonna be slow and grounded makes me happy because.. well, I'm gonna be less dizzy and had less motion sickness.
PC player here who doesn't quickswap. Quickswapping is absolutely optional. In fact, I think it is pretty bad at faltering. Here's what I think: Quickswapping weapons don't falter. (SSG, RL, PB, Ballista, etc.) I like to use the hard falter machine known as Heat Blast. You can make great combos with it. Micro Missiles can damage an enemy severely before applying a damage falter. Destroyer Blade oneshots most heavies, and the free falter can be used mid-combo. However, it can't be ignored that it's the simplest and easiest way of playing high-level DE.
Heat blast has a long cooldown time and benefits greatly from switching during the cooldown. If you use heat blast regularly you probably switch weapons during the cooldown even if you don't notice it.
Quickswapping weapons absolutely can Falter. It's just not consistent because enemies have an internal Falter cooldown, and only some weapons can bypass the cooldown for a guaranteed Falter. Such as Frag Grenades, Heat Blast, Memebeam explosion, Energy Shield Mastery upgrade, breaking Weakpoints, and I think Blood Punch and Mobile Turret too. And probably a few more I don't remember.
After playing 2016 and now eternal my literal only complaint is the ammo scarcity, I understand why it’s done but sometimes I have ammo for enemies which isn’t the right type and am out of the ammo to kill that specific enemy, and if you’re out of chainsaw fuel you’re basically screwed. It’s something 2016 did superbly well - player choice.
I'm a console player so quick swapping is quite a bit more difficult on controller, but I was still able to beat the campaign on Nightmare difficulty. I just memorized the directions of each weapon on the weapon wheel so I could open it and swap to my desired weapon real quick.
A question about quick swapping especially for the veterans that constantly used it, is it a big help if I use a mouse with many side buttons like the razer naga hex or the corsair scimitar? To further elaborate, as suggested by many youtubers i’ve rebinded half of my weapon keys closer to the WASD key to help my fingers to reach the keys for easier swapping. However, despite that i still find it awkward to move while quickswapping. Because it’s either you’re going to stop for a bit to quickswap, which is bad even for just a split second, or even if you are moving you are only moving in one direction since most of your fingers are busy quickswapping. So basically, moving while quickswapping gets my fingers on my left hand all tangled up because of so many things you have to do 😆So that’s why I feel using a mouse with at least 6 side buttons like the razer naga hex would help alleviate that since now your fingers on your left hand will be free to keep moving and your fingers on your right hand would do the quick swapping on your mouse side buttons while shooting. And if a mouse with many side buttons is not needed, how do people quickswap in videos so quickly and still be able to move around the arena with no problem?
I use a razer naga trinity with the 7-side button configuration that's very similar to the Naga Hex. Before that I used a hex. I personally fucking love it for DE especially but really for any FPS with a large arsenal it's a godsend to have more programmable buttons that dont require you to move your fingers from the movement keys to access. I will say that since you'll be doing the majority of your swapping with only your thumb, the ABSOLUTE maximum speeds of quickswapping that require 200+ FPS and insane skill to pull off consistently might be out of reach with this setup. But unless you're speeedrunning, I can't see it mattering. With practice, you can still do quickswap combos more than fast enough for everything up to and including master levels on Ultranightmare. it's also worth noting that these swap speed concerns due to button configuration only apply to combos using the precision bolt + another weapon, which is itself kind of an advanced technique. quickswapping between two heavy weapons like ballista and SSG has a top speed that's much slower than PB combos (but still much faster than waiting for one of these weapons to reload before firing again ofc) which is not difficult at all to reach. the only other downside is that sometimes frantically thumbing those buttons could throw off your aim but this can be avoided by just being mindful.
I prefer to just use the right tool for the job rather than insane quick swapping. A single arbalest shot is all it takes to delete a Cacodemon rather than quick swapping between 3 different guns. A single lock-on with rockets will delete a Hell Knight. Name an enemy, and I know exactly which weapon and mod I have found works great at killing it. Each weapon is most effective at dealing with certain demons. Find the right tool for the job, and no quick swapping is necessary. I used this method to beat the game and both DLC on Nightmare and even TAG 2 on Ultra Nightmare on Xbox.
me personally I love the Punchswap because I farm Bloodpunch a lot, so I can mutilate a Cyberdemon in 1 second by using Double Barrel Shotgun and Bloodpunch over and over
I beat the Super Gore Nest Master level on Ultra-nightmare using the weapon wheel on an old Xbox controller - quick swapping has never been a real option for me but there is definitely the possibility of reaching higher skill levels without quick swapping, you just need to move faster and understand the combinations of weapon shots with the greatest damage output at certain ranges to make up for the advantages of playing on PC.
@@henryfleischer404 Its a strawman i made up for comedic purposes, theres no shot someone seriously puts down a game due to depth. If anything its just a "reason why" someone might have if they are just being silly.
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Might have one more in me... I need to get to Fallen Aces. We'll see.
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I've gotta give Fallen Aces a try, it looks sick!
I find it kind of sad that swapping between your weapons in a specific order to deal more damage is the only advanced tech in the game.
I honestly would have enjoyed the game more If it included actual Interactions between weapons like shooting your weapons in the air to make it explode in more complex games like Ultrakill😢.
please do not get fallen aces I beg of you
Friend of mine had "Meathook" playing while walking to the cage in one of his MMA fights. That was lit
That is awesome
@@RacingSnails64 dammnn. did he win ?
@@nathanr6381we don’t know that yet, but at least we know that he won the crowd
do u have a link i wanna see
Damn thats cool
Seeing Decino play this on Nightmare, I can confidently say, no, not quite. You can get by playing Doom Eternal even on harder difficulties without quick swapping specifically. And to the main point, do you have to quick swap to have fun in Doom Eternal or let alone play the game? The answer is also the same. The easier difficulties is just as fun and prepares you for the harder difficulty levels if you feel like you're ready.
If you're a new player, be a new player. Nobody starts Doom Eternal like they're born with a mouse and keyboard in their hands.
You're right. Nightmare is easily playable and beatable without quick swapping. I can do quick swapping, I don't enjoy it. I got through Nightmare on TAG1 without quick-swapping and it's a fun challenge.
@@neighbourhoodmusician Even to this day, I believe Doom Eternal's true optimal strategy is knowing your arsenal, situation, and enemy you're gonna handle. Which is to be fair, it has always been something since the original games. People think you have to be Bob Munden with your mouse and keyboard when basic gaming sense and skills can carry you for quite a distance.
If Doom Eternal can truly be defined by just one or two kinds of playstyles, then it wouldn't make sense why a lot of its player base praise it a lot. New and older players and fans alike.
This. I have mastered this game on PS4, but when I switched to PC, I felt handicapped. But 100 hours made a competent player.
Yes it is doable I'm a noob doom player and I played on nightmare because i wanted a challenge and I'm not good a quick swapping but I was able to finish that game. The only time I was kinda forced to swapping is to fight the guys with the axe and shield (I forgot the name)
@@Silverflower351 Strange. I am experienced FPS player and could not finish Doom Eternal on ITYTD
The problem is once you see how quickly you can kill stuff with Quick Swap, it becomes an Ultimate strategy because of the insane DPS, So you feel obligated to use it if you are getting your ass beat.
I"m this side too.
Quick swap always felt mandatory and honestly is cool
If I see a pistol that I can charge to one shot enemies, I'm taking that too.
I started to play on my Legion Go (a bigger steam deck)zand it was refreshing, it has back paddles so you can have better mobility but not having direct access to the insane quick swaps was interesting.
It was the same in 2016.
I’ve been playing this game over and over for the past 3 months. Been nice to go back after years of not playing it.
Same!
I even started it on the Deck now. It's not that bad even on nightmare. I'm doing touchpad + gyro.
It’s only been 4🤦🏽♂️
doom eternal players when they have to quick swap to the gongloid rifle into a binkulus blast with a fonguloid alt fire instead of simply using the flamethrower, iceblast, iceblast: the sequel, grenade, and then chainsaw
SHUT UP MARAUDER!11!!!! ❄💥💥 🗡🗡🗡(doomguy blast)
Corny ahh joke
To be fair the gongloid rifle has an animation cancel and the binkulus blast actually gives you some i-frames, so it's no wonder they've taken over the meta.
lmao
@@davidavila8805 i typed it as fast as i could to get first comment so ermmmmmmmm ermmmmmm erm
This video reminds me, I had a pop-up window appear to me while playing ARC Complex recently. It reminded me that quick swapping was a thing, and seeing it encouraged me to actually try it out and I could definitely feel the difference when killing heavy demons. I'm not very good at quick swapping, so I was mainly just tapping the Q key to swap between the super shotgun and the ballista. It's interesting because I don't remember seeing that window pop up before.
Before, I was only using the SSG+ballista combo to maximise damage when dealing with the Marauder. Quick swapping is tricky (at least for me), but it's also a fun way to quickly melt other demons, so I don't get why some say that they don't enjoy it. I'll try and remember to use it more often and to experiment with other combos from now on.
Loving these new Doom Eternal videos. It's always interesting to explore things with the benefit of hindsight.
that popup was definitely added after the release, i remember seeing it i think after TAG 1 dropped, I am okay with the inclusion of quick swapping in the game but people who die by it annoy me, its almost an exploit and to act like its the intended playstyle is so dumb
If you're having trouble with quick swapping, try binding your weapons to keys that sit near your fingers naturally during gameplay (I think I have mine bound to like 12345, Q, R, and E (of course rebinding keys as you need them) and turn off the weapon wheel.
Sure, it sounds like it makes the game harder, but once you remembered what key pulls out what weapon, it becomes significantly easier to quick swap.
@@RipRLeeErmey I currently have keys 1, 2, 3, and 4 bound to the Shotgun, Heavy Cannon, Super Shotgun, and Plasma Rifle respectively. Those keys are within easy reach and I have memorised which weapons they bring up. After seeing that pop-up window, I've been experimenting with binding the Ctrl, Z, X, and C keys to the BFG/Unmaykr, Chaingun, Ballista and Rocket Launcher respectively. I may alter this later depending on how well things go.
How do I turn off the weapon wheel?
@@NoXion100 If you want to get rid of the wheel entirely, you can do that by unbinding it so that it's not assigned to any key. To unbind, do what you do when binding something to a key, but select the key that you're currently using for the wheel instead of selecting a different key. Personally, I like having access to the weapon wheel- I don't use it to switch weapons but it's a handy way to check how much ammo I have in all of my weapons.
@@danielwilliams3393 Ah, I was hoping that I'd be able to just disable the weapon wheel part when using the Q key, and just have it as a "swap to last used weapon" key like in Half-Life. I can do that now just by tapping the Q key, but normally I don't use the weapon wheel at all.
I wonder if the slower paced dark ages will have quick swapping
I hope it doesnt
I don’t think slow pace is a thing. More enemies, bullet hell, big relatively flat arenas. No way I’m going through 200 enemies at a slow pace.
@@zombine7103I also hope it isn't slow.
Considering 2016 had it, it probably will not as a feature but a byproduct. To negate it they would have to deliberately implement cooldowns when swapping between weapons, which would feel very uncomfortable.
@@WarningStrangerDangerI can only see it being as "slow" as 2016, which is still pretty damn fast even without the dash and meathook.
One of the main issues I have with a lot of shooters is how you're either limited in how many weapons you can carry (looking at you, BioShock) or the majority of weapons are so esoteric & specific to an uncommon scenario that you only wind up using two or three for the majority of the game. The variety of weapons in Doom Eternal and how each of them has a lot of utility (some more than others, but all of them are useful) is one of the game's strongest points, and I love how it encourages & trains you to use all of them.
Mayo in an alternate timeline: I don’t like doom eternal because it isn’t ultrakill.
Evil mayo be like:
He likes Ultrakill tho
@@jackliu8991 over the mayo be like:
but he likes ultrakill
@@Auvisomeare you sped
For me, the answer is very simple.
I was replaying Doom Eternal's main campaign on Nightmare difficulty when I got to the part where it puts you in a purple slime hallway and spawns a hellknight in front of you. When that happened, a tutorial prompt came up teaching me how to quickswap the power weapons. I don't know if that tutorial prompt existed way back when the game came out, but it exists now and the message is clear: quickswapping the weapons is now considered a common gameplay mechanic to be designed around.
(funniest part is that it isn't even the only way to deal with that hellknight; I had cryo grenades too!)
That tutorial was added after I did a video mentioning that that there should be a quick swap tutorial because it's an awesome thing to know about and leads to higher fun. It was never talked about when the game launched, and never intended by the devs as "the way to play". But they realized a lot of people found great fun in it and more players should learn about it. They embraced it. But the game is still perfectly enjoyable and beatable without it as the majority of causal players play without it.
Doing no upgrades runs of 2016 taught me to quickswap before Eternal even came out. I don't quickswap constantly, moreso on specific enemies or in high pressure moments. Hugo has said the game is completely beatable on controller where quickswapping isn't quite doable.
That said, quickswapping takes out the Mancubus insanely quick (pbolt one cannon, ballista the other, rocket to his body, then meathook in for a SSG blast. It's incredibly satisfying.) I've also never strayed from good ol' SSG+ballista against the Marauder. I also came up with a SSG+microwave beam quickswap combo that completely humilates Barons and Tyrants and locks them down and takes them out quite quickly (doesn't work against Archviles sadly, they break out of it.)
There's also weapon mods that deal pretty good damage without quickswapping. Full Auto, Micro Missiles, Lock On, Mobile Turret... Pair them with either grenade type or a blood punch and you can delete enemies almost as quick as quickswapping.
You can quick swap quite good on controller actually but the swap itself feels slower than on MnK for some reason.
I never understood why Eternal got this much criticism for it, but when 2016 did it, no one cared. You'll even see people claim they prefer 2016 because you don't quickswap- like they clearly never played MP.
Switching from ssg and batista only takes 2 buttons on pc and only one if on controller with the recall last gun thing, that at least is pretty doable. Also people forget about the gun dial.
it's not a quickswapping game, it's just the game pushing you into learning a particular playstyle, which you will more than likely take full advantage of once you learn the game. understanding the game itself is key, not learning complicated combos
I've been playing DOOM Eternal for 3 years now, never used quick swap because I don't like it. It doesn't feel natural
Didn't the Quick Swap mechanic once used to be this cool gimmick on release which actually later on became an real offical in-game mechanic mentioned through the tutorial itself months AFTER the game's release ?
I think that's pretty cool...that'll be like if someone figures out animation cancelling and later game introduce it an actual mechanic rather than nerfing or out right removing because some devs see it as an harmful exploit.
isn't that what happened with fighting games? at first animation cancelling, counters and stuff like that were considered glitches, now they are woven into all fighting games.
it was a cool gimmick in 2016, in Eternal it was intended from the start. Note that quickswapping in Eternal isn't nearly as game-breaking as it was in 2016 (double-tap SSG into insta-Siege, anyone?)
sonic frontiers also had this same thing, where an animation canceling glitch became a mechanic and devs acknowledged as such now
Also happened with jumping in Quake.
I beat the game without quickswapping while on console so I say it isn't really required tbh (unless you try ultra nightmare or something lol).
Yes it's powerful but it isn't mandatory. You can play normally and beat the game just fine.
I beat it on the Switch without anything too fancy. I used the weapon wheel button to toggle between 2 weapons sometimes when facing a boss or annoying pair of enemy types. (I liked the Super Shotgun + 2nd gun)
What difficulty did you try? Because I could only beat the game on hard on console. But once I switched to pc, kbm & learned quickswapping then nightmare became my main difficulty
@@Tokyoprism pretty sure base nightmare. Idk
@Jbeckjs I get the feeling that on console, it comes down to movement and evasion, because the goal isn't to kill things as fast as possible, but to stay alive and try to get the enemies to follow you to good positions before freezing, burning, grenading, etc. That alone will get huge multikills that refill you and scales with difficulty well. The pacing is different, but it is only harder if you're impatient.
I'm on pc and I prefer not to quick-swap. I like to play without doing it. I beat the game on medium difficulty and had a great time, none of my family and friends have disowned me... so far
Difficulty in game design is always a tough one, on the one hand you want to appeal to the broadest audience (money), but on the other hand you also want an in-depth system that caters to the core / or enthusiastic audience. Quick swapping also reminds me of the cod-meme 'lightning bolt, lightning bolt, magic missle, lightning bolt, lake of fire, lightning bolt, lightning bolt'.
1:35 Interestingly this doesn't necessarily apply to the cooldown for alt fires. If you get into weapon modding you can change Precision Bolt so that its cooldown doesn't get skipped when you switch weapons. I think they actually did this sometime after the game released but reverted it after pushback from the community like you said.
I sort of wonder if the whole arsenal would be better balanced if they had acknowledged weapon combos right from the start, like increasing the DPS of rapid-fire weapons to be a bit closer to what you can do with quickswapping. The gap in damage output between playing with quickswapping and playing without it is huge which is probably why a lot of people feel like you "have to" quickswap to play the game well.
i have poor motor skills with my fingers on keyboard, when i got my first gaming pc i got doom eternal as my first game and beat it on UV, i couldnt hit the number keys to go to each weapon directly, but got down quick swapping with the Q key between my current and previous weapon. Made me more comfortable on K&M, i love this game!
A good mouse with extra buttons or an MMO mouse can make things easier. I don't like having to reach for numbers, so I have 1-9 on my mouse.
@@WarningStrangerDanger i’ve experimented with a 1-9 on mouse and i have a hard time actually hitting the one i want, my mouse has two thumb buttons that ive made to be x and alt usually depending on the game
When the game came out , i played it with a controller ( which makes swapping harder ) and i didn't use any weapon swapping , right until the marauder fight where that fight pushed me to swap between the super shotgun and ballista , and i finished the game with occasionally quick swapping between 2 weapons ( fire weapon 1 , press LB , fire weapon 2 ) without the crazy combos you see .
So it's not necessary but i believe the more you play the game and the harder the difficulty, the more you'll naturally start doing it .
"I wonder who's to blame " you Mayo you
I'm the guy that made videos against player elitism and championed underused weapon mods like full auto, microwave beam, and remote detonation. You literally couldn't be more wrong.
@@underthemayo "said it in a pretty humorous way ,I exaggerated so far that it had to be taken as a joke , I foolishly thought there's no way you would have taken it seriously , boy was I wrong "
On my first playthrough, I beat Doom Eternal on UV by using (hold onto something) THE WEAPON WHEEL.
Same I only did very minimal quick swapping against the marauder with like the SS and gauss canon
6:16 hahah this is one of the few times i genuinely like what you have to say! Ive screamed about this while it was happening. The whole quick swapping thing was a huge turn off. Visiting DE strims was like watching the same gameplay. And to have the dlcs, master levels (and even horde mode) designed around it made me completely lose interest in the game and the community overall as if the game was now exclusively for the elites. Thanks for this video.
I never quick swap. I spam the chaingun shield instead
Fun is always the hardest thing to get when playing a video game nowadays, there are always some sort of "pro" bitching about how this game should be played, but they are acturally dont have fun. If you really want to see how bad this kind of behaviour can be, you can learn more about TF2's MvM mode, in there, if you dont do what the community said. You will get bullied and kicked.
In my personal experience, I feel like the game forced quickswapping on me at times in order to continue.
I am really not good at at it at all, but my poor attempts to quickswap like the pros was _good enough_ to get me by. Absolutely wouldn't have gotten by without the mechanic. This is in Tag 1, by the way. I don't feel forced to quickswap anywhere else.
It doesn't force quick swapping, it forces faster action and more focus. Blood punch usage, grenade setups, better ammo management, ice bombs on priority targets, group flame belches. You just gotta play the game better. Using Quick Swap is simply one way of doing that.
@@underthemayo Yeah whatever, say whatever you have to in order to justify your point. Forcing faster action is the same as saying it forces quickswapping. You have to ACT FASTER. Playing the game better IS quickswapping.
It's easy to understand why you're not really that liked in the doom community...
Not everyone is ZERO MASTER. The rest of us just play it.
Great video and analysis. I’m not a high level player, but as I played through Eternal, I never learned or cared to learn quick-swapping combos. I frequently bounced around the map, creating space to keep the AI’s pressure off of me while I would select a weapon based on the weak points of whatever targets I wanted to prioritize, and then focused on those enemies before making sure I had space to think about which target I wanted to tackle next, pull up the wheel, and select my next weapon. No, I wasn’t speedrunning Ultra-Nightmare; I was casually playing through Hurt Me Plenty, but I had fun throughout the entire campaign.
The idea that a game absolutely must be completed as quickly as possible on the highest difficulty while using every possible exploit to be played “the right way” is stupid. At the end of the day, it’s a game. It’s supposed to be fun. Eternal provided a fun challenge that genuinely tested me and also made me a better FPS player overall.
I just recently got through ultra nightmare first time with my trusty ol' Nintendo switch. Nothing is less convinient with a Switch than quick swapping as your main strategy.
Also weapon swapoing animation feels way slower on switch than it looks like on PC, so yea its not neccessary but flashy af, I envy PC gamer but I'm a broke student.
Likely because the game is running at 30 FPS on switch and has higher input delay than at 60+ FPS
Not only input delay, the game a lot of things in the game are slower at lower fps, including weapon swap
It's funny because I have a high(er) end PC and never bought a Switch because I think they're too expensive.
For what they can do? Maybe. But in absolute terms 250 bucks is less than1000+ bucks :D
damn this poor soul has to play Doom Eternal on a switch
This generalizes to pretty much every game with a high skill ceiling. And you're right community matters most. In BroodWar, my childhood game, I came back with the SCII announcement, learned people were absolutely cracked, and started playing and practicing that way.
For a new, modern AAA game, absolutely even the crackedest speedrunners could do a lot of good by being like "yeah, this technique melts the devil folk, but if you're just starting it you can just play, don't worry lol."
I thought quick swapping back to the SSG after firing was a glitch, cuz it magically reloaded the gun. Just learned it was intended (I guess).
At the end of the day, videogames are just about having a good time :)
You just want every game be like Doom Eternal.
GOOOD I missed this line so much. We all can finally use it again guys! 😁
Ego Shooter Veteran here, I like Doom but hate quickswapping. Was fun to play on ultra violence :)
Wouldnt say its necessary to have fun but surely the meta if you wanna "go pro"
I completely agree. My first playthrough was on PS4, and as I always try to extend my gametime while playing a game, I tend to select the highest difficulty. I fell in love with Doom Eternal, and I completed the campaign on Nightmare without much thought on optimizing my damage output outside of just using high damagin weapons. While already loving the game, I discovered quick swapping. Fast forward to today, Doom made me build a PC and buy it again for PC. I truly believe you are one of the best figures in the community, even though there are some points you have made in other videos to which I disagree. It is just how it is, but seriously, thank you for the passion you put into all Doom Eternal videos!
Glad you found love for the game! Hopefully The Dark Ages is just as fun but in a different way.
Although the game doesn't require quick swapping, I will say that once you learn it you can't really go back. It is by far the best way to increase you DPS fairly easily, meaning that DPS mods like the mobile turret or the micro missiles end up being rarely used. Even worse, weapons that neither dish out high DPS nor fit into quick switching combos like the Plasma Rifle end up becoming obsolete.
There's still a lot of variety in high level play though. When you have 8 guns with 3 fire modes each, you can expect them all to equal once you know the game. But then not everyone plays for DPS. I play more about the falter system.
@@underthemayo Sure, most people don't play specifically for DPS, however, killing enemies fast is an inherent motivation to any combat shooter. Doom Eternal is actually a ton of fun without quick swapping (With maybe the exception of Master Levels), but it is far more efficient and in some ways less complex to quick swap than learning all of the mods.
I think ID recognized how prevalent and efficient swapping was with how difficult they've made their Master Levels
Yeah dps will always be king in a single player campaign. At least the game does a good job at getting you into general variety so you're already booked on the fun and can decide what you like from there. I still do a lot of dps too of course.
i use plasma rifle vs fodders to recharge the heatblast
@@Ronin_019 plasma is also a great glory set up on fodder.
As a PS player, i didnt really start quickswapping before my third play through. But boy does it help with naggy stuff like marauders and archy
Like in JRPGs the difficulty comes from the level differences between yourself and the enemy, and the way to beat them is either through careful buffing and out damaging your opponents or by maximizing how much EXP you can get out of an encounter you can easily go beyond the level that the game expects you to be and you can use brute force to go through it. It’s all about which style you prefer.
"A lot of people didnt use quick swapping in the game."
True. However, if you want to beat the game on one of the higher difficulty setting, you basically have to do it.
If you avoid it, you'll get the feeling that the game was meant to be played with quick swapping.
"This is were a lot of high level fun is found in Doom."
Okay, what do you define as "high level fun"?
What is fun and what is not is bound to an individual. Calling quick swapping as "high level fun" sounds to me like an
attempt to divide the community. People using quick swapping are considered to have a higher level of fun
than others who do not use quick swapping.
"you have to quick swap to beat the game on a higher difficulty" is the most ridiculous lie I've heard in a while. The VAST MAJORITY of people who played doom eternal have never quick swapped. I beat it on nightmare, and months later on ultra nightmare without even knowing what quick swapping was. Most console players don't use quick swapping. You don't know what you're talking about.
And "high level fun' is not an attempt to divide the community lol what are you on about? They're just the players that engage in the higher execution mechanics, pushing the game to its limits.
I heard a few people refer to this as a thinking man’s fps and for that reason alone I like 2016 better
Totally fair. We all have our preferences.
I tried to beat Eternal on nightmare using quick swapping and I found it totally overwhelming-I kept losing track of which weapon was at which binding and like, having to hesitate before each swap (which, of course got me killed a lot). I told myself I’d set new keybinds and practice with them, but I never got around to it.
I use the same keybinds for all my games pretty much. Like g is always grenade, 3 is always shotgun etc.
@@GangsterFrankensteinComputer on my mouse, forwards is always grenade and backwards is always melee.
Yeah, it's really just a matter of practicing regularly and developing that muscle memory. Takes some time.
@@japaroads now just expand that for all the weapons. Quake 3 was my first big fps, so I've been using pretty much the same keybind for 25+ years now.
Doom eternal is like xonotic used to be and still is, quick swapping is advantageous but sometimes sticking to fewer or just a certain weapon depending on the context, can be a good choice just as much. Quake 3, live and 4 (the games which doom 3, doom eternal and 2016 clearly are shaped on) forced players to alternate using a single weapon in certain situations and to switch them in others by making combos, quake champions put this philosophy to the extreme by adding abilities in the mix as well, it is indeed the hardest quake to play by considering just the mechanics themselves imo....
I appreciate it that other users were showing quick swapping. I never knew about it when I first played Eternal and when I saw others doing it, it made me want to do that and be successful. Quick swapping is a big reason I still play the game over 4 years later.
"Because the vast majority of people..."
Presumptive nonsense from someone who isn't an ordinary player. The vast majority of people probably never get through the game. (according to Steam achievements only 32% finish on any level.) And no one that does -- even on easy -- doesn't have some idea that quick swapping is essential.
To be fair its pretty obvious he means people that actually at least played and/or cleared DE, if you consider everyone that just plays 1-2 hours and bails then we arent talking about people that you can use to fairly assess the game.
Although that would be hilariously disingenuous if that was the video we got, almost wish we did.
@@SparePencils "To be fair its pretty obvious he means people that actually at least played and/or cleared DE"
So not someone like me who has only finished once, but put in 300 hours playing the first two/thirds of the game, eh (400 if you believe Steam). I would rather play D2016. It's a more straightforward shooter.
But you miss the point, no one can play through DE more than once on anything but easy and not have to learn a few fighting combos. Mayo isn't talking for the average player here when so few manage to finish the game.
3 Eternal videos in a row? We have been blessed
He is trying to use the hype created with the trailer of the new game. Since he is not relevant anymore, the options are to do this or shitposting on ultrakill
@@Odin3589 he wasnt relevant to begin with. Everyone knows him as the guy who plays games purposly wrong and then complains about it.
To be fair, quickswapping existed already in Doom2016 s an unlockable upgrade.
Considering that in Doom Eternal it is given to the player right away, - the devs at ID indeed intended for
it to be there and taken advantage of. And it is a good trick, which when used in moderation - does make
the game more impactful and more fun. Hell, i use it in every game that allows it! But in excessive manner -
when all weapons just become a constant blinking blur - it is a turn-off, cause you don't get to visually enjoy
the full spectacle of monster-slaying: you don't see the weapon animations, you don't see how rockets travel
from your gun barrel and into the enemies, you don't see how Doomslayer reloads his shotgun and so on.
With this approach, the entire weapon HUD could've been removed, - switched off, and just replaced with a
colored crosshair (in a true DE fashion, lol), or a colored vignette. Red is for shotgun, Blue is for rockets,
Green is Ballista...you get the gist🤣. And i am willing to bet that if this was an existing option - there would
be tons of people who would use it immediately.
Fun is indeed subjective, and just like there are ways to bolster it, there are ways to derail it. Or simply make it
"not fun enough" to the degree that it is "no fun at all". Sometimes, the gameplay is good, but the presentation
and dilution of it with unrelated filler - creates a deal-breaker.
Great take. Doom Eternal is designed to be dynamic and flexible to different levels of player engagement. I tried using quick swap techniques during my various runs with the game, but I'm not proficient with it. I primarily set myself up with two weapons that will be most useful depending on the combat encounter, use the quick swap key as a way to switch between them when I need to. Otherwise I'm a weapon wheel man through and through.
This video is very encouraging for console players. I beat Eternals campaign on XBox but it was extremely frustrating. I couldn't do most of the fast pace "quick swapping " the cool youtube videos showed so I simply gave up and ignored the DLC.
I feel re-engaged now and am going to download the game again and try a more natural play through, as Mayo described. I hear the DLC is hard so I may need to put my ego in check and dial down the difficulty... but why not?
TLDR at the bottom
-----------
I wasn’t around when mayo started his doom eternal vods in the beginning, but would eventually watch it later.
Speaking about fun.. I first played eternal on switch which is 30 fps. I never knew the difference that 60 could make at the time, and I’m also a controller player .
After a while, I got addicted to eternals gameplay, and I never owned a shooter except goldeneye or nightfire.. but slowly but surely I was able to be it on the switch on nightmare mode.
And in all that… did not quick swap. I got doom on the pc to experience 60 fps and I figured out a few things.
- I wasn’t quick swapping correctly ( because it thought I had been doing it)
- controller was harder to pull off quick swap, but was impressed how well the game taught me to switch weapons that I do it instinctually( I am switching, but not optimally)
- I know I wasn’t quick swapping correctly when I saw people get 3 shots on a juggernaut (not including the stagger combo here) when I only could get 2
TLDR i still had a ton of fun and I didn’t have to weapon swap correctly. Yesterday, I beat it on ultra violent on pc to warm up to nightmare on and i didn’t die once, which just goes to show how much i improved... and im still using controller
When I first played this game on Ultra-Violence, I struggled a lot, I was waiting for weapon recoveries between bad movement and died quite a few times. Quick swapping wasn't in mind, but even still I had a ton of fun playing, near the end I was normal swapping to destroy weak points and deal a lot of damage with heavy weapons.
So the game isn't built around it, but once I saw a video on Mayo absolutely decimating super heavy demons with icebombs, frags and quickswap combos I thought... Nah no way, the game can't be played this way surely.
So few arenas later I got some basic combos down, prescision bolt + rocket and then stuff like frag + meathook shotgun blast + blood punch + balista + frag + rocket lock on repeat.
Then from scratch jumped into nightmare with weapon quick swapping and better movement.
My god, the game went from fun the best damn shooter I played.
I feel Quick Swapping is there if you want to access higher difficulties and do well, it's not necessary but it makes the oppressive Heavy and Super Heavy Demons in Nightmare and probably UN a cinch while looking cool af.
It's fine if people don't want to play that way, and most of them have their fun on a casual playthrough but since quick swapping is intuitive to the game... I think people should try it out at least once in an arena past Exultia.
Tangentially, I did an entire UN playthrough without ever unlocking the Precision Bolt and mostly using (after the first four levels) the autoshotty. Rendering my edit of that playthrough as we speak. Anyway, while I did unlock Hot Swap as a formality, I don't think I abused it as much as I really needed to (ballista boosting and bhopping, on the other hand...). So yeah, I agree.
I have recently been watching through your old doom vids and this is 1 one of the 2 things this community has to remember for darkages.
1- dont harrase players to play in a certain way.
2- the tag 2 situation where need to communicate better with id if any issues are there
I'm hoping Doom Dark Ages gets rid of it.
It likely won't as quick swapping is actually a technique invented by players. Doom Eternal simply made it more official.
Love the return to doom eternal videos and commentary! Great stuff!
No, you're wrong. Hugo Martin explicitely told in one of his interviews, that the Marauder was created specifically around fast-swapping mechanic. That's the only way to defeat him without much stress.
yeah, but that is one enemy, its like saying that youre meant to throw granades at every enemy bc thats what the cacodemon teaches you to do
@@enzoborghetto the most funny thing: they actually don't teach you about fast swapping in marauder tutorial prompt, which is ridiculous
@@misteranonimous7137 i mean, you can kinda figure it out with
@@enzoborghetto Well, yeah, most people certainly figured that out after release, didn't they? 😉
@@misteranonimous7137 well yeah, hugo martin has said that he didnt make it clear enough that the marauder gets stuned when you interrupt him
Love these retrospective videos on Doom Eternal!
A friend of mine started playing UN and he is dead set on beating it like that. He did all of what you said, he explored the game on his own and when I showed him the wonders of quick swapping, his enjoyment of the game increased and is still increasing. You really need to learn the game on your own before you jump into the more high level play. My journey looked like that, most of us had that probably.
The more you tell someone that Doom Eternal can only be played through a specific and effective way, the more you are gonna undersell what's fun about it in the first place. The game is made to be fun and chaotic yet overall, very efficient. And one optimal method is the opposite of chaotic.
It's not just Doom that has this concept to be fair. All great games encourage this type of mindset. Diablo II encourages your own preference before you are dead set on fixing on a certain build to tackle higher challenges, Blood makes you get familiarized with your arsenal before you handle Well Done or Extra Crispy. It's also why a lot of people find Dark Souls hard even though, there are a lot of varieties of builds you can do in it that don't remotely require one specific play style.
This video is an eye opener for me. I've been put off by seeing those quick swapping gameplays and thinking I lack the mechanical skill to pull it off. I've always been a "do few things well" kind of player (coming from battlefield, r6 etc.) and lack the ability to juggle multiple things quickly. This kinda changed my mind about it and I might actually buy 2016 and eternal.
Hearing mayo say, "Who cares how people play if they're having fun?" is surreal. The same dude who runs defense on Hugo Martin fundamentally changing the 2016 game loop because "people were playing it wrong" now thinks youre not allowed to critique the consequences of that very decision.
The idea of people "playing the game wrong" in 2016 is not that simple. The change was not a response to people "playing it wrong and having fun". It's not about judging people's fun. It was instead a response to how easy it was to fall into boring play, NOT HAVE FUN, and then dismiss the game as dumb. How easy it was to "not get it".
But you're taking me out of context. I'm saying that if people are having fun in a game, don't harass them. That's not the same thing as wanting to craft a different gameplay experience in another game.
If you're playing a game and you're having fun and you're finding success, chances are you aren't playing wrong. However note that I was very careful to say "chances are." This is not a universal statement. And the terms "have fun" and "find success" are crucial to be together. There are plenty of games out there where it's super easy to be successful from level 1 by just doing boring repetitive stuff and ignoring 90% of what the game offers. If you have fun with that, hey, great. But you can't argue that that's good game design.
I definitely enjoyed this game before discovering quick swapping. On nightmare I was getting my ass handed to me, and I stumbled across one of your videos. I was on Xbox at the time and after practicing, I was able to beat TAG 1 on ultra nightmare while controller quick swapping. As soon as I bought my PC… man the fun went up to 11. My girlfriend has a harder time understanding quick swapping, but she enjoyed the game without it and I think that’s what it should be all about anyway. Good video!
In my first play through of the game I was overly dependant on sticky bombs, always forgot to use the flame for armour and never even used the ice bomb! Let alone worry about weapon swapping.
It was overwhelming for me but in my future play throughs on a harder setting I was doing all of these things. It gave the game amazing replay value.
Variety makes this game come alive!
@@underthemayo I see what you did there 😅
idk why my first two playthroughs were with a controller before I got into really tryhardalism and mods. Didn't quick swap, just enjoyed the flow, the same as I did with 2016. After learning Eternal I completely changed how I play 2016. Thanks for all the content!
When I played Eternal I would only do the Super Shotgun into regular Shotgun quickswap because I liked how it sounded when I did that
I "queue up" my quick swaps and certainly cannot swap how you do, Mr mayo. And that's perfectly fine
Before a battle I'll select Balista/SSG and will flick away at Q to swap between the two, then bring up the weapon wheel and just switch to what I need to. It's a moment to assess the situation and think about what mods I'll need and who's on the board
Hey Mayo will you planned on reviewing Doom Eternal mod again? There's a new mod called "Hell's Abyss" and it's a really big and impressive mod in technical level but seem like no one know about it yet. You did say before that you'll be back when there a big community mod drop
What's it about? How hard is it?
@@RaidenWithBiden in term of difficulty not that hard (at least on the balance version) but what special about it is the creativity. There's ton of custom geomatry make the level look nothing like the original, new custom enemies, new boss, re-using some of the best tracks from Doom 2016. And plenty of cool thing
@@RaidenWithBidenit aint too bad. There are currently 3 versions (not exactly sure what their names are) but it's something like: balanced, unbalanced and CBT (CBT being the hardest). But, the CBT version is said to be an old file on Nexus because it was too hard lol.
But I still did the first arena of the CBT version while only using slow weapon wheel switching (so no quick switching) and the video is on my channel, a little self promotion heheh
Ey I watched that crazy man play that last night.
I remember when I started playing I’d get frustrated bc every video I saw quickswaping looked crazy and I couldn’t do that with my Xbox but I learned that you don’t necessarily need to do crazy quickswaping to have fun
It was hard to achieve quick swapping for me, but it is so fits for game "getting ammo system" that make a lot of fun. What makes you a real DoomGuy even in Hardcore or Nightmare.
But they complain that there is not enough ammo for them, what show them as kids that don't want to accept developers vision of the game, it's rules. They want "a choice" that would make a game into casual experience. Like you can choose easy difficulty, but they want hardcore and nightmare and then they dont want to learn new, cause they "dont like it".
I dont know, when i was playing quake3 it was sooo funny to make combos when circumstances are changing. Like - different weapons for different situations. And now feels like ordinary player can't adapt or evolve, they are trying to make gameplay under them. To make it sandbox-like.
They cant admit that they are not good enough what will move them to self improvement.
This does not apply to new players who do not complain.
Only for childish people, who don't want to grow, because life will force them to adapt anyway. And doom wanted to be a brutal game and quick swap give this opportunity to the game.
As a person who plays Doom Eternal on the Nintendo Switch… it’s generally harder to quick swap on controller because it only lets you swap between the gun you’re using now and the previous one. So when you do want to quick swap you have manually set it up with the weapon wheel, unlike keyboard players where you have all of your weapons with just a click of a key. That’s why I feel like that Doom Eternal on console is kind of harder than on PC for that reason… with an example being that it makes it harder to deal with the Marauder because it takes up a lot of time just switching between two weapons, making that window to deal damage to the Marauder seem smaller than it actually is
I WANT to. It's like Devil May Cry,
You can finish the game just mashing randomly but the game has so many options that your personality can be displayed through the gameplay.
I'm forced to play on console right now, and i was so used to quick swapping on PC I'm needing to relearn the game, so this was helpful!
Coming from multiplayer FPS where comboing with burst weapons is just the most intuitive thing to do, I never once understood the "complaint" about swapping weapons back and forth. Complaints about nagging ammo management and shoehorned weapon roles, sure, but quickswapping by itself? Literally what's the issue? Like, I'm pretty sure someone was taking the piss and it just stuck as part of a laundry list of "new thing bad". People love drafting themselves into wars of us vs. them without really knowing why lol.
But yeah, you don't even have to quickswap, because the game is so forgiving and lets you circle the arena forever in a battle of attrition. You can caveman your way through EVERY unmodded map as long as you tap your health/ammo/armor regen buttons every now and then.
This video is 200% valid for me. I was never a double barrel shotgunner in Doom 2016, I was a proper swapper, ...and a Pistol Charger/sniper!! ...An "all-weapons guy," swapping more than once every minute.
I learned to run forward and become the terror. It was amazing.
Finding the fun too slowly increasing in D.E., and hearing judgements against people "playing wrong," I judged myself as a D2016 guy, thinking "well, I don't have the time to put into Doom Eternal to enjoy it "right," so I guess I'll play something else.
But games are supposed to be fun. I highly resonate with everything you've said in this video, and after watching, I'm far more likely to give Doom Eternal some more play time.
Now I’m gonna have to challenge myself to beat a marauder without quick swapping. One weapon per cycle.
I just use the Super Shotgun for most things and switch to the Chain Gun whenever I get overwhelmed, works for me so far because I got through the main game and the 1st DLC playing like that.
If you're playing on Nightmare or Ultra-Nightmare difficulty, then yes, I would argue that quick-swapping is absolutely mandatory. You stand no chance without it. And with the DLC and later Master Levels, the devs basically expect players to utilize the technique consistently. By the time of Ancient Gods Part 2 release, quick-swapping went from an unintended quirk to "This is how we expect you to play the game."
I've played a lot of Eternal, but never quickswapped on purpose. I love the game tho. It's intimidating because everybody (you included) says that you need to quickswap to play the game seriously, and it's actually not true, you can reach a good level wthout bothering with this technique.
To me the quick swapping looks very boring, as I was drawn to the new Dooms because of the gameplay trailers showing a "combat dance", shooting and weaving to make it hard for enemies to kill you and killing them off.
And because of Quick swap spamming, the Doom Eternal lets plays with skilled players have completely destroyed my interest in looking for Doom Eternal Lets plays completely.
If the guns had a "1 shot magazines", which have to just complete the animation cycle after each shots, which won't complete if the gun is switched away, the quick swap would be good time to time method to add damage quickly and not something one could repeatedly use all the time to stunlock everything.
It is but not to the extent that players made it into to. The heavy cannon swap was never intended by the devs at launch and was even patched out of the game at one point (you can thank me and the Spicy Demons discord for that one) but was re-added as it became core to the games DNA.
I can't even imitate that quick swap speeds. Especially, when I saw some guy who swapped between 3 weapons O_O
I play this game from start to finish at least once every few months. There are some situations where I do quick swap but honestly I don't need to do it to be THAT efficient. I'll go through a fight just ripping through the fodder with the chain gun, occasionally fire a Rocket at something thick. Run out of ammo, switch to one of the shotguns or the plasma rifle...so on so forth. While I do admit that quick swapping is useful, I never really find it that necessary. You can totally play the game without the need to quick swap.
Okay this is a start…
Day 1 of asking mayo to make an asmr video
It's amazing how Doom Eternal managed to capture all the controversy of Souls games, while at the same time being so different
-Gatekeepers: "don't use summons" / "do quick swap"
-General public: "the game seems so hard, I better go play something else"
-Game reviewers: "I can't get pass the tutorial"
EDIT: You got it completely with that "you're not having fun the right way". I would just like to quote the PR team of Doom Eternal: "... You control the buttons you press"
I used to play doom 2016 for years using a very basic kind of quick swapping without any real thought put into it, before i even knew it was a strategy. The game seemed slower without swapping weapons and after playing it for so long since you didn't have a dash and stuff like that. But in eternal i just didn't carry it over originally when i played the game for the first time. Now i do quick swap occasionally when playing. So for me it was reversed i used to quick swap in 2016, but not in eternal.
Your argument is a bit feeble here. "Most people who play the game don't use X, so it's not an X game". Okay. But there is plenty of content in the game that all but require it, such as the Master Levels and NM+ clears. "But it's technically not a requirement"". Okay, but to play Doom Slayer ideally (or as ideally as you can) in Battle Mode, maximizing DPS, you will have to use it. "But it's technically not a requirement!". See how disingenuous it is? I guess Doom Eternal is also technically not a FPS for most of its encounters, but rather a melee game, since I can wait for one gas pip to regen, get only chainsaw kills and procure extra gas cans on the map to chainsaw bigger enemies, blood punching if possible. "But that's not how the majority of people play it" - And? What a game is and isn't shouldn't depend on a weird manner of democractic vote. Doom Eternal is a quick swapping game because it's essential to much of its deeper gameplay, nevermind if all areas of play or all levels of players make use of it.
This isn't entirely accurate. Quick swapping is a symptom, not the cause. What really happened is that people who liked Doom 2016 simply didn't get their game. Playing the game without quick swapping isn't like Doom 2016, it's still Doom Eternal, with low ammo counts, constant monkey bar swinging and constant chainsaw use on every third enemy. A sizeable portion of people didn't like that change in direction. Yeah, supershotgunning every enemy may not be fun according to the devs, but a lot of people simply liked D2016 just for that. The freedom and no bullshit approach, contrary to a lot of shooters at the time.
I'd argue that a more balanced approach is what makes DE shine the most. A pure quick swap playstyle is effective but gets tedious. I'm at a point where most games can't really hold my interest, but with Eternal, I find myself constantly experimenting with different mods and combos, raising my skill ceiling, and quick swap can really limit creativity and, in turn, longevity.
You know, I actually like quick swapping weapons. Makes gameplay a lot faster. Especially when you wanna clear that one level because you are in the hurry to do something else besides playing video games. But at the same time, very fast gameplay makes me feel dizzy. I mean, I can play with fast gameplay as long as I can but after that I feel like I'm drunk. So I think that id software need to do something about it and maybe in new Doom they fix the dizzy problem. Can't wait to see what Doom The Dark Ages has to offer, and the news about the fact that gameplay gonna be slow and grounded makes me happy because.. well, I'm gonna be less dizzy and had less motion sickness.
at 2:00 quickswapping is starting to look like an exploit and not an intended feature.
It's almost like that's what it is!
They wanted you to be able to switch between weapons but certainly never imagined how insane it actually was lol
PC player here who doesn't quickswap.
Quickswapping is absolutely optional. In fact, I think it is pretty bad at faltering.
Here's what I think:
Quickswapping weapons don't falter. (SSG, RL, PB, Ballista, etc.) I like to use the hard falter machine known as Heat Blast. You can make great combos with it. Micro Missiles can damage an enemy severely before applying a damage falter. Destroyer Blade oneshots most heavies, and the free falter can be used mid-combo.
However, it can't be ignored that it's the simplest and easiest way of playing high-level DE.
Heat blast has a long cooldown time and benefits greatly from switching during the cooldown. If you use heat blast regularly you probably switch weapons during the cooldown even if you don't notice it.
Quickswapping weapons absolutely can Falter. It's just not consistent because enemies have an internal Falter cooldown, and only some weapons can bypass the cooldown for a guaranteed Falter. Such as Frag Grenades, Heat Blast, Memebeam explosion, Energy Shield Mastery upgrade, breaking Weakpoints, and I think Blood Punch and Mobile Turret too. And probably a few more I don't remember.
S'funny, I remember people arguing that quickswapping was an unintended glitch.
After playing 2016 and now eternal my literal only complaint is the ammo scarcity, I understand why it’s done but sometimes I have ammo for enemies which isn’t the right type and am out of the ammo to kill that specific enemy, and if you’re out of chainsaw fuel you’re basically screwed. It’s something 2016 did superbly well - player choice.
when u tell someone to try something in game it feels like feeding kid with veggies
I'm a console player so quick swapping is quite a bit more difficult on controller, but I was still able to beat the campaign on Nightmare difficulty. I just memorized the directions of each weapon on the weapon wheel so I could open it and swap to my desired weapon real quick.
A question about quick swapping especially for the veterans that constantly used it, is it a big help if I use a mouse with many side buttons like the razer naga hex or the corsair scimitar? To further elaborate, as suggested by many youtubers i’ve rebinded half of my weapon keys closer to the WASD key to help my fingers to reach the keys for easier swapping. However, despite that i still find it awkward to move while quickswapping. Because it’s either you’re going to stop for a bit to quickswap, which is bad even for just a split second, or even if you are moving you are only moving in one direction since most of your fingers are busy quickswapping. So basically, moving while quickswapping gets my fingers on my left hand all tangled up because of so many things you have to do 😆So that’s why I feel using a mouse with at least 6 side buttons like the razer naga hex would help alleviate that since now your fingers on your left hand will be free to keep moving and your fingers on your right hand would do the quick swapping on your mouse side buttons while shooting.
And if a mouse with many side buttons is not needed, how do people quickswap in videos so quickly and still be able to move around the arena with no problem?
I use a razer naga trinity with the 7-side button configuration that's very similar to the Naga Hex. Before that I used a hex. I personally fucking love it for DE especially but really for any FPS with a large arsenal it's a godsend to have more programmable buttons that dont require you to move your fingers from the movement keys to access.
I will say that since you'll be doing the majority of your swapping with only your thumb, the ABSOLUTE maximum speeds of quickswapping that require 200+ FPS and insane skill to pull off consistently might be out of reach with this setup. But unless you're speeedrunning, I can't see it mattering. With practice, you can still do quickswap combos more than fast enough for everything up to and including master levels on Ultranightmare. it's also worth noting that these swap speed concerns due to button configuration only apply to combos using the precision bolt + another weapon, which is itself kind of an advanced technique. quickswapping between two heavy weapons like ballista and SSG has a top speed that's much slower than PB combos (but still much faster than waiting for one of these weapons to reload before firing again ofc) which is not difficult at all to reach.
the only other downside is that sometimes frantically thumbing those buttons could throw off your aim but this can be avoided by just being mindful.
I went all the way to the dark lord boss fight with only combat shotgun and sticky grenades cuz i didnt know how to swap efficiently
I prefer to just use the right tool for the job rather than insane quick swapping. A single arbalest shot is all it takes to delete a Cacodemon rather than quick swapping between 3 different guns. A single lock-on with rockets will delete a Hell Knight. Name an enemy, and I know exactly which weapon and mod I have found works great at killing it.
Each weapon is most effective at dealing with certain demons. Find the right tool for the job, and no quick swapping is necessary. I used this method to beat the game and both DLC on Nightmare and even TAG 2 on Ultra Nightmare on Xbox.
Had 2 “beef” bacon burritos while watching this video made it 1000x better!!! BTW PLEASE AMKE MORE DOOM VIDEOS LOVE EM 👏 👏👏
me personally I love the Punchswap because I farm Bloodpunch a lot, so I can mutilate a Cyberdemon in 1 second by using Double Barrel Shotgun and Bloodpunch over and over
I beat the Super Gore Nest Master level on Ultra-nightmare using the weapon wheel on an old Xbox controller - quick swapping has never been a real option for me but there is definitely the possibility of reaching higher skill levels without quick swapping, you just need to move faster and understand the combinations of weapon shots with the greatest damage output at certain ranges to make up for the advantages of playing on PC.
Its comical imagining a person just putting down a game because they can cancel weapon anims with swapping.
Not so comical if you imagine them thinking it's the only way to play the game
@@henryfleischer404 Its a strawman i made up for comedic purposes, theres no shot someone seriously puts down a game due to depth. If anything its just a "reason why" someone might have if they are just being silly.