19:50 I really like what you said here cause I can connect with this a lot. In my work as a mathematician this is precisely how I operate. I come up with ideas through my introverted intuition, sort of out of nowhere, and then prove them using introverted thinking, in a more organised and conscious way. These two complement one another nicely. People often tend to assume that maths is just logic and deduction, but the core of it is actually intuition. So it was interesting to hear you say that.
All my friends have these blanket apologies and I keep telling them it won't cut it. If you don't know what you've done me wrong, you're gonna repeat it. They don't apologize from their heart, but from their mind. They have the social cue, they know they HAVE to apologize, but they don't mean it. And, Infj or not, but I don't care what you say if you don't mean it. And now that you mentioned it being a way of manipulation, I 100% agree now that I see it.
What people forget is that INFJs are highly aware of the social norms and what is expected of us, yes we do feel the discomfort of being social but we know it’s something we have to do so we do look more confident and outgoing. And as we get older and we grow and we realize that we are not weirdos and the world does actually appreciates us we can be more confident as we mature 😅
Comment followed by a question: INFJ here. I was solidly aware of my introversion long before I knew about Myers-Briggs, but I was raised in the American southeast (known for forced friendliness). Now that I live somewhere else and in a field with more introverts than extrovert (scientist), I am often told that I am lying about being an introvert. Question (if you've gotten this far): I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household and was told to listen for the voice of God to "call" me to do something. When I was younger, I interpreted my strong sense of intuition to the feeling of being "called" and didn't realize that most people do not experience that in the way that I did. Since you've mentioned being raised in a conservative Christian family and having broken away from it, did you personally couple the ideas as strongly as I did, and, if so, did you struggle with losing faith in your intuition while growing away from your religion? If you did, what are your thoughts on handling that well? If you answer this question, thanks ahead of time.
Seems to me that the MBTI system allows for flux and flow, where many of the the non-dominant traits are expressed from time to time. Which is to say that we all have a full spectrum of human personality characteristics, with dominant functions. In my mind Clay is definitely an INFJ, almost a mirror for fellow INFJs, with distinct INFJ traits. As for the vague hope concept, I agree, it is used to assuage fears and frustrations. When we take responsibility for our own lives and behavior, it is easier to see how the vague hope card is simply a bluff. Another strong vlog, Clay, thanks for speaking your mind.
Yay! A TH-cam typology commentor who writes sensible things. Personalities are super complicated. The more you learn about them the more you realize that. I’m Glad you exist Sarah. To be fair, Clay is also on the list of people that I’m glad exist, but no big - it’s way easier to make a space on a metaphorical list than it is on a spreadsheet - if it wasn’t, I’d be in trouble. (Which suddenly prompts a question, I wonder if it’s possible that some male INFjs, just by virtue of their XY brain anatomy and increased testosterone production, may have increased aptitude for tasks like computer programming, over some female INFJs? Of course development, socialization and individual differences are also factors that could influence this capacity. I know the Clay had talked about that in one of these TH-cam videos, I don’t remember him going into much detail. (The concept of the Sims is superhardcore Ni IMO). I’m not bad with computers, but the process of learning to use certain programs and applications is laborious. I am fascinated by the possibilities associated with learning to program, and right now I’m obsessed with making these 3D terrain height maps for a strategy game, but following procedural steps -to carry out basic tasks - like uploading a file to a server in the proper format, is almost more than I can handle. I’m both so smart and so stupid at the same time, y’know? Anyway it’s just an interesting question about whether or not hormones can alter the presentation of a cognitive style to a degree that it would be worth studying. So yeah this comment became a reflective essay embarrassingly quickly. Apologies, I had a long day at work and clearly I needed to process some things before I got on TH-cam.
There is such a thing as post traumatic growth, sometimes hard things do make us stronger but I totally agree with your take in it in the context of relationships. Thanks 🙏
Vague, pat answers really stand out when you start to listen for them. Christianity (my history) is full of these. Now when I say I need to “own” something or say that person needs to take responsibility for their actions, I can see christians uneasiness and hear pat answers of “God is in control”, “let’s pray about it”, and “can I pray for you?” How is organized worrying going to solve anything? I really tried to believe in all of that, for YEARS! Being an INFJ with intuition (extrapolated thought-processing), it fits great with spirituality, bc it can make us believe God is speaking to us and the Holy Spirit lives in me, telling me what to do or say. However, when I abruptly stopped trying to make Christianity fit in my life, what I discovered was that the same things happened, good or bad, but I had to take responsibility for the results. I had to face issues now and make changes. For me, this was when I got my life back and started living fully.
I said to my ex yesterday “any false hope could kill me at anytime”. I think I wanna change it to “vague hope” after watching this, this is what I wanted to tell him. Thanks 😊
I spent 20+ years living in what my therapist called ‘false hope’ with a partner who sucked me dry emotionally and materially. I’m not a person of faith but I had faith that this person would grow into an equal partner. More fool me. Took a long time to learn that lesson. This is very apt. Cheers.
I have so many crazy theories that my Ti then either proves or disproves. It’s so fun. Definitely very childlike. “I wonder THIS!” then, later, after some research “whoa! I was WAY off but what I’ve learned now, is SO COOL!” is generally how it goes. Either that, or “YAY! I was correct! Now I wanna know even MORE about it!”
One more 'vague hope' example that particularly resonates with me is the hymn "God will take care of you." But how? I know it's meant to offer comfort, but all I think when I hear it is "Is that a threat or a promise?" I suppose it could be either...So, I'm anxious...
BTW - vague hope serves a purpose for people who have yet to come up w/ a feasible solution. > I would not push anyone to “give up “ anything - that could be dangerous. > Instead, I would recommend adding & or trying some new & different things, each day. Like engage in mini new adventures. For example, do something opposite of what you usually do. Try a new food place. Visit a different park. Talk w. a person you feel is not in your league. Practice being interested in every little thing you do .. Stuff like that - is so beneficial to overall neurological health & well being. 😍😇😄
I have listened to your struggle with growing up in a very strict, fundamental Christian home, which probably included many "vague hope" phrases that were little more than thinly veiled masks for other issues. As a fellow INFJ, I can understand the need to get to the root of problems instead of dismissing them with nice-sounding cliches. But even though Christians can resort to vague hope cliches when they really should be working through certain problems instead, there really is a difference between vague hope and certain hope as a believer in Christ. It saddens me that your upbringing may have stripped away much that is truly beautiful, rational, and faith-filled about Who Jesus is and why, through Him, Christians can confidently say that yes, in the end, even if we are hurt or killed for our faith, that eternity with Christ means that it really does work out. Jesus told us that we would have trials in this world, but to take heart for He overcame the world through His death and resurrection. I say this as someone who is an overthinker and analyzer, who has been able to objectively look at things from many perspectives throughout the years. I pray you will find healing and be able to move past a version of Christianity that was an insult to both your mind and spirit. I enjoy your videos and resonate with your thinking process. Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts with all of us.
I would just like to clarify what you're saying here. It sounds like you're implying that dying is actually part of 'everything working out okay'? Do you think that's what most Christians mean when they say this? You think that they actually think being burnt in a cage fulfills that promise? Their children being tortured fulfills that promise? If so, I don't see how this isn't just a giant word game. If everything actually does works out okay, while using a normal cultural definition of what okay actually means, and nobody dies, then Christiains will rejoice that God fulfilled his promise. But if anything bad happens, no matter how horrendous it is, it is STILL all part of everything working out okay?
@@ClayArnall From a human, logical standpoint, it sounds insane, right? If we think that this life is all there is, then it's absolutely crazy. But Christians truly believe that dying or being persecuted for their faith is an honor, in the same way Christ died for us. Especially when this life pales in comparison to spending eternity with God. Christians who die a martyr's death are rewarded even greater in heaven. I understand that it sounds utterly foolish, and you don't believe in any of this. I get that. Before I believed, it sounded that way to me. All I had was my human understanding until the day I realized that Jesus really is Who He said He was. In faith I believed it, and was then filled with the Holy Spirit. Now that sounds weird too, I realize. But it's not like I walked around afterwards in some strange trance and acted high or something. But it did change me and my perspective on many things, long before some church teacher started telling me what to believe and even then, I questioned everything until I could fit things together myself. Things that I thought were perfectly okay before, I suddenly was uncomfortable with. Even before finding out what the Bible said about it. I could go on here and annoy you with more examples, but I also had both a peace and confidence that extended beyond who I normally was, that for the life of me, I couldn't articulate. It defied human logic. Even now, in the midst of chronic health problems with no easy answers, ( but still working through them, rather than just making vague hope statements,) I have a faith and peace outside of just myself that God gives me. I know that this will be looked upon as a subjective experience at best, but I also hope that you can look past imperfect Christians, and seek Christ Himself. He promises that all who seek Him will find Him.
@@wonderingpilgrim Well the thing is I was a very devoted Christiain until I was about 30 years old. I studied the bible extensively, listened to many different teachers and even lead discussion groups to try to unpack the teachings. It was the centre point of my life. One thing I've noticed about Christiains nownately is that even though I tell people I 'was' a Christian, it is assumed that perhaps I never was a 'real' Christian. I find this quite annoying. The reality is, I completely agree there is a comfort in believing. In fact, that's statistically proven, that religious people, regardless of the religion, are happier and more hopeful. That's because all of life's hardest questions are answered for you. The anxiety of death is removed. But regardless, the thing is I did try to seek him to the best of my ability, so the fact that I didn't find him, what does that mean for the promise you reference that all who seek will find? All I've done my whole life is seek. The only response you could possibly make is to say that I never was a 'real' Christian or didn't seek in the 'right way'. Which in the end is just extremely assumptive and borderline insulting to attempt to know what I was or wasn't.
@@ClayArnall That's a really good point, and I will have to think about that, Clay. I would also never say you weren't really a believer. That is extremely annoying, and definitely insulting. For the first 1500 years of Christianity, it was taught that a true believer could walk away, even after they found Him. I guess in that context, you did find Him, but then chose not to remain in the faith. It wasn't until the Protestant Reformation and Calvin's teaching on election and doctrine of eternal security that this understanding of false believers took root. To be clear, there have always been false believers, but many of them actually stay in the church and cause a lot of damage, like televangelists who are always demanding money for private jets, etc. Even then, I can't possibly judge for certain if they believe or not, but those who truly love Jesus usually don't go around using His Name to con people out of their money. There are a lot of scriptures that point to someone genuinely being in the faith but then walking away. If you had been in the faith that long, then you've most likely heard it all and will only become annoyed with much of what I have to say. But know that I come from a place that genuinely seeks to understand, as well as share my own experiences, rather than just merely "Bible Thumping " you. I guess my biggest concern is that whatever you went through might have caused a warped sense of Christianity. I have heard that from other fundamental Christians who were simply done with Christ because of Christians that caused them a lot of pain. Also, there is a scripture that refers to someone who is always learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. So it is possible to seek, have Jesus reveal Himself to a person through the scriptures and the Holy Spirit, but never in faith repent of their sins and believe in Him and Who He is. I am certainly not saying you are in this camp either, but only that this happens as well.
Apologies are very misunderstood. Apologies are the conclusion/report of a problem solving process. That means an apology should consist out of: - Problem Identification (What was the problem?) - Problem Resolution plan (How to solve the problem?) - Problem Resolution action (What did I do to solve the problem?) - Success Report (What worked?) - Failure Report (What did not work?) - Future plan (What will I do?) Example: Sorry for insulting you by calling you thick (Problem Identification). In future I will use more appropriate words (Problem Resolution Action). Please know, if I call you thick, it's meant as compliment (Problem Resolution Action in action). As my example show, some points need to be done (1 + 2), but mots of them can be done while the apology itself. In my example the success report, failure report and future plan may be discussed while the apology, But in other situation they can nbe done upfront.
Vague hope is TOXIC to the INFJ!! I couldn’t LIVE with it in my marriage any more. So I made the difficult decision to divorce, despite knowing it would pain my babies. (They’re both teens.) Earlier this week, my husband took his own life. He couldn’t rug sweep the reality of having to create a life for himself (and his time with our children) on his own, without me making everything easy for him.
yes, good point...there are pro's a cons to all of these messages....It's a matter of discernment....and/or "chewing the meat and spitting out the bones"....and it also should be said that sometimes "hope" is all that's available. I mean we can do what we can do, and "should" do what we can do...but sometimes that's not enough and hope/prayer/new ideas to consider, etc, are all that's left. I totally agree though that "rug sweeping" is THE WORST! ...especially when these "vague hopes" are fed to us by people who are just avoiding appropriate action....or worse....manipulating us to "hang in there" for long enough that eventually they can say "you've really been stuck on that for a long time...maybe it's time to let it go" (a tactic often used by narcissists....along with another, which is what I call "non-pologies") Ultimately I believe anything...)whether it's a hopeful message...and inspirational message....proverbs...a political belief...pretty much any ideaology..).holds the potential to be helpful or harmful. The trick is growing our self awareness to the point that we're not fooling ourselves or allowing ourselves to be fooled by others. The more self awareness we have, it almost doesn't matter what "vaguely hopeful" messages come our way... We can consider them...and with brutal self-honesty, determine if they fit the situation at hand...and if not....then just toss them.
Vague hope is extremely unnerving to me, because as you stated, it minimizes my legitimate concern. It’s rude and sometimes even borders on gaslighting. “Oh you’re just worrying over nothing”. It’s also mean because they’re waving me and my concerns off, as if I don’t even matter. What if I feel scared? What if I see a path to resolution? Why are you trying to knock me off kilter?
Clay, any thoughts on INfJ apathy? I feel like my introverted intuition leads me to thoughts that are depressing in that this world isn’t doing what it should be, when in fact solutions seem so simple to me. If you listen to the song ‘Can You Afford To Be An Individual’ by Nothing But Thieves, it does a really great job of telling my exact thoughts about our sociopolitical climate (especially here in the US). Let me know, or feel free to use this question in another video!
In my video on 8 reasons for INFJ burnout, I talk a bit about this. One of the top reasons for burnout is paying too close attention to what is happening in the world that is outside of your control. There's a lot of nonsense happening everywhere you look, and if you spend too much time on it, it will drag you down into depression. That's why I recommend not even reading the news. Also, try to Ignore politics or anything else that is based on status wars.
Yay for NBT fans! I third this, "CAN YOU AFFORD TO BE AN INDIVIDUAL" just hits all those emotions on how we feel about wtf is going on right now... such an anthem.
I know one ENFJ very well, and she is so warm! The child Se comes out prominently when we've gone on walks together and she's pointed out various details that I would have completely missed in my inferior Se default, and watching her revert to some pretty weak Ti when under stress is a little amusing. But yes, generally ENFJs have this natural warmth with people that makes me a little jealous, although I've noticed they often have difficulty listening to their Ni when it comes to getting away from people who are not healthy for them.
I just cant tell you how many times ive had conflict in close relationships bc i wont sweep things under the rug!😂 My MBTI consult suggested i may flip back and forth btween F/T bc my numbers were really close on the test. But maybe i just hv a well developed Ti. Cant explain how that happened. Much as you say, i hv these theories and can sometimes prove them. Other times some big "expert" appears on TV or i run across a book with the same ideas and proof. I get super excited when that happens. Funny you mentioned the small percentage of blacks in Vancouver. It is on my list of places im considering moving to (black infj). Thanks for the breakdown on the MBTI stacks. This is the first time where i fully get it. I now hv a better understanding of my functions and can be more cognizant (and gentle) with myself when the weaknesses kick in and consciously modify them to improve my life and better understand myself.
Hey Clay😊 First of all, this is such a a great video and channel to begin with, and I love how you break down concepts and we think about a lot of the same things. I also wanna say that I’ve been wondering if you’re an ENFJ for months now. ENFJ and INFJ are very similar, and I know it’s very easy for anyone to say you’re an introvert cause you have a calm presence and you seem “deep” which is not often attributed to Extroverts, even ENFJ. But I do think that I am also very reserved, even more so in person than on camera cause I project myself the same way you said you do. And yeah, I don’t know. I just really felt severe connection and similarity to you. But you answered very cleanly, and I trust your assessment. You said that the ENFJ you know are warm and comforting and nothing like “Oh they talk so much” etc. I also love that you really broke down the functions. Especially talking about Se > Ti in the ENFJ vs Ti > Se in the INFJ. You really understand Type unlike a lot who often stick to dichotomy. And I like that once again you don’t just say stereotypical things. You didn’t describe Se in the ENFJ as bombastic and wild. And yeah, you aren’t INTP In my opinion. Your Fe is too strong haha. Either way, I love your channel and I appreciate you taking time to address the question. Keep up what you’re doing, man. Would love to interview you sometime. Would be dope to discuss concepts sometime or even have it be covering ENFJ and INFJ differences and similarities of ours, especially as men.
“Suffering breeds character “...type thinking. Survival will impart learning, but not necessarily make one a better person. “ God has a plan” thinking, seems like veiled, helplessness. I can’t change it, so,... believe that, it’s for my own good, I just can’t see it yet?...loved ones in my life, really like these life tactics. I sometimes, with I could hide there, as well. Just can’t.
One thing I need to expend and which I really don't because everything. that HurtS makes so much sense it's acting like I was afraid of FACTS but now I like how people say they're old school AS IF MIXING THIS WITH THAT WASN'T WANTED 4/LACKING TRUST ONCE IN US HONEST. ONES Gets THOSE SOFTIES HARDER THEN ANY BRANCHES THE STRONGEST CORE CANT PART ME FROM
In our personality’s raw, reactive state, us INFJs are much easier typed by others bc our strengths are strong and our weaknesses are obvious. However, IF we choose to work on our weaknesses and rein in our strengths, we become harder to peg. Plus INFJs are chameleons, so we can become what you need us to be for a brief time. If we do start to place boundaries, speak OUR truths, take social risks, and stop fixing everyone, we become more healthy, mature INFJs, but much less immediately recognizable as an INFJ. Which give us great delight to fool you, bc we love our ambiguity 😆
It's interesting that you bring up the whole "INFJs are 1% of the population" stat. I wonder about that too, especially because (at least in my experience and from what I've noticed from others) we generally feel like the outcasts of society. There is an overwhelming feeling that there is no one like us and that no one could possibly understand our perspective. Whether that's true or not seems unclear. Maybe part of it has to do with our lack of communication skills? How could someone understand us properly if we can't explain ourselves? Maybe that general feeling of aloneness is amplified by our personality type, leading us to believe that we are in fact only 1% of the population when in actuality it's much more than that. It could be that a lot of people mis-type themselves, but I've definitely come across more than 1% of people in my life who type themselves as INFJ.
I don't understand why these people just because they cannot relate to you at some point felt like hey you prolly mistyped yourself and i am the real one, It's gets annoying really like hey since i cannot relate to you over this part so i am assuming that you are not the same kind as my type. They did'nt realized that it is same as telling you, you are fake and lying to yourself and i am the genuine one. Wow. I don't think there is any type that has been judge and criticized more than the "rare" type infj and sometimes i just wanna be something else cause i know if i tell other people i am an infj they will instantly judge me like anyone else. It's so sad that these shallow things like putting a person in a box and if you don't fit in that box you're out of it when all you want is to just basically belong in everyone's box and to be understood but because the name infj itself is so damning that is rare they already judge you for being one. An infj if they are really honest to themselves would not be spreading false information about themselves if they are not sure about it, if they don't painstakingly studied it and researched about the functions and everything and finally come to a conclusion they might be one after all the research and there you are judging what they had already judge themselves in the first place about what type they are because you happen to be so "expert" to watching their videos which is just like not even a half of what they are in real life. Truth be told but not all infj or even whatever type you are, are the same.
Let me just say.. lol.. when I heard the recorded question I got mad. I'm an INFJ and I don't like people questioning my type instead of looking at themselves and questioning their own type. In my mind I'm like "if you have a question ask it, but don't tell me who I am or I'm not" 😂 I'm triggered.
Vague hope.. umm.. i resonate with the idea that is our own responsibility of every movement we made, basically, but is not ut what makes us human by using the vague hope ater all? I mean, we dont even decide fully of why we are human at the begining? Do you know that actually? Umm, so, it relates with the ending too like we do not know it even we resonsible fully about it. Ah.. interesting
Hello everyone i have a question for you But it looks simple but its very deep and I as an Infj cant answer it in a full answer What are words and why they have understanding(beacuse we give meaning but how did we do that?) and how we can understand them :p I feel like im really different from anyone and from other Infj (i didnt met anyone in real life but) Im really like an Entp i dont care so much about to debate with people to make them uncomfortable and yet when they are in trouble I will sacrifice all my time just to make them smile And i have a problem that I talk alot.Im very scared if i dont train to talk i wont be able to talk about my ideas Those things that i said may be weird but idk Im typed as an Infj everywhere but may it can be beacuse of my friend idk xD cus i have so many friends in school and i just shared my idea with them and i start to talk nonstop in 5 th grad in 4 i didnt talk but when my class talked alot i wont say any word but one day when i say a teacher that my class is making noise and he said you are making the most when i didnt say any word i got so madddd that from that end of year i was the first person to talk more than my class than anyone i asked them really everything that comes to my mind the dumbest thing they have heard like idont remember very wall but like hihihihi how are you did you learn tell me about why bank as four leg and why not 5 what if you cut your hair how would you feel why you look like this ex like a tree xD hahaha and they get really mad but idk this world is confusion in the maximum A advice:I as an Infj have really big gifts that we couldnt never exchange with anything but we may be so naive to want easy things like ur looks that is not really important if someone is more good looking like you no one only infj can have super rarest gift to understand this life and to take the most of it bring light to this dark human being that are very not careful about their action Love you Infj pls pls pls im struggle with this problem but the best advice from me to you is dont compare yourself to others but make yourself better when you was yesterday and try to think what can i do in a day free time to do to acomplish your goals Love you all If we wouldnt have those problem like sadness depresion etc it would be unfair for others type to not have those gift like is a fair building that we so little can understand but the truth is the truth and no lie can deny it
But they fall in love luck baguette the talk about nothing to really know about the Wish Upon a Star the one they reach where they are what they want they don't be like oh no it's okay not doing everything that they promised but they get it is it all know it was me it was but when you're talking about the people in the car as they use it as your do Harriet Tubman came up out of the ground from the state came here is like nobody has appreciated out here and they know where their asses came up but when they don't get what they want pull that card and this will be the first song People appreciate it people were actually humid I just want to do I meant to say human using the voice audio texting cuz I got to live in nervous and
It's funny when they say they're not judgemental but then it asked me why I changed my weight it's like okay then I guess you are we we once again I'm using the voice audio text Dave who is this time to write but what makes me laugh like when they say I'm crazy but they want to go cray cray I guess that is your crayon and I'm saying I'm about to reach Insanity I guess so
Those vague hope quotes are cheeseball and kinda false positivity people use to avoid fixing an actual problem. However, is it just me or do you feel incredibly cynical when you press it? Like the example of a guy getting burned in a cage. The realist in me knows that JUST believing in God doesn’t mean everything’s gonna be alright but if I attack the comment with logical questions, I just feel like a Debbie Downer - maybe because those comments would only be made (by me) regarding someone elses situation, only because I wouldn’t use this kind of false positivity to try to avoid tackling my own problems.
Hey some people in the comments >> Did you *really* think *you* could type Clay? Do you live in his head and heart? Did you know him his entire life? How stupid do you have to be to watch his videos and think you know what he is better than he does? FFS... go figure your own selves out first - the # of mis-typed confused individuals out there is staggering.
Wait .. What ? Did you say - in real life you don’t talk ? 🤔 Is it bc of lack of social congruency ? IE - you haven’t met people to verbally engage w: the way you like to ?
No way, you're much too close to an INTJ and ENTP, therefore your Ti is much more developed than an ENFJ's, and also would say you're more introverted.
Refer to this as malignant hope. When you continually allow others to take advantage of you, in spite of proof of their toxicity.
19:50 I really like what you said here cause I can connect with this a lot. In my work as a mathematician this is precisely how I operate. I come up with ideas through my introverted intuition, sort of out of nowhere, and then prove them using introverted thinking, in a more organised and conscious way. These two complement one another nicely. People often tend to assume that maths is just logic and deduction, but the core of it is actually intuition. So it was interesting to hear you say that.
interesting! That's how I find I solve problems as well.
Wow, I am exactly the same. I love the comment section because of people like you!
All my friends have these blanket apologies and I keep telling them it won't cut it. If you don't know what you've done me wrong, you're gonna repeat it. They don't apologize from their heart, but from their mind. They have the social cue, they know they HAVE to apologize, but they don't mean it. And, Infj or not, but I don't care what you say if you don't mean it. And now that you mentioned it being a way of manipulation, I 100% agree now that I see it.
This is for Nathaniel: Many believe that MLK was an INFJ, a great man of vision and valor.
What people forget is that INFJs are highly aware of the social norms and what is expected of us, yes we do feel the discomfort of being social but we know it’s something we have to do so we do look more confident and outgoing. And as we get older and we grow and we realize that we are not weirdos and the world does actually appreciates us we can be more confident as we mature 😅
Comment followed by a question: INFJ here. I was solidly aware of my introversion long before I knew about Myers-Briggs, but I was raised in the American southeast (known for forced friendliness). Now that I live somewhere else and in a field with more introverts than extrovert (scientist), I am often told that I am lying about being an introvert.
Question (if you've gotten this far): I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household and was told to listen for the voice of God to "call" me to do something. When I was younger, I interpreted my strong sense of intuition to the feeling of being "called" and didn't realize that most people do not experience that in the way that I did. Since you've mentioned being raised in a conservative Christian family and having broken away from it, did you personally couple the ideas as strongly as I did, and, if so, did you struggle with losing faith in your intuition while growing away from your religion? If you did, what are your thoughts on handling that well? If you answer this question, thanks ahead of time.
Seems to me that the MBTI system allows for flux and flow, where many of the the non-dominant traits are expressed from time to time. Which is to say that we all have a full spectrum of human personality characteristics, with dominant functions. In my mind Clay is definitely an INFJ, almost a mirror for fellow INFJs, with distinct INFJ traits. As for the vague hope concept, I agree, it is used to assuage fears and frustrations. When we take responsibility for our own lives and behavior, it is easier to see how the vague hope card is simply a bluff. Another strong vlog, Clay, thanks for speaking your mind.
One of the reasons why people like Jordan Peterson say that the Big 5 is more up2date
Yay! A TH-cam typology commentor who writes sensible things. Personalities are super complicated. The more you learn about them the more you realize that. I’m Glad you exist Sarah. To be fair, Clay is also on the list of people that I’m glad exist, but no big - it’s way easier to make a space on a metaphorical list than it is on a spreadsheet - if it wasn’t, I’d be in trouble. (Which suddenly prompts a question, I wonder if it’s possible that some male INFjs, just by virtue of their XY brain anatomy and increased testosterone production, may have increased aptitude for tasks like computer programming, over some female INFJs? Of course development, socialization and individual differences are also factors that could influence this capacity. I know the Clay had talked about that in one of these TH-cam videos, I don’t remember him going into much detail. (The concept of the Sims is superhardcore Ni IMO). I’m not bad with computers, but the process of learning to use certain programs and applications is laborious. I am fascinated by the possibilities associated with learning to program, and right now I’m obsessed with making these 3D terrain height maps for a strategy game, but following procedural steps -to carry out basic tasks - like uploading a file to a server in the proper format, is almost more than I can handle. I’m both so smart and so stupid at the same time, y’know? Anyway it’s just an interesting question about whether or not hormones can alter the presentation of a cognitive style to a degree that it would be worth studying. So yeah this comment became a reflective essay embarrassingly quickly. Apologies, I had a long day at work and clearly I needed to process some things before I got on TH-cam.
There is such a thing as post traumatic growth, sometimes hard things do make us stronger but I totally agree with your take in it in the context of relationships. Thanks 🙏
Vague, pat answers really stand out when you start to listen for them. Christianity (my history) is full of these. Now when I say I need to “own” something or say that person needs to take responsibility for their actions, I can see christians uneasiness and hear pat answers of “God is in control”, “let’s pray about it”, and “can I pray for you?” How is organized worrying going to solve anything? I really tried to believe in all of that, for YEARS! Being an INFJ with intuition (extrapolated thought-processing), it fits great with spirituality, bc it can make us believe God is speaking to us and the Holy Spirit lives in me, telling me what to do or say. However, when I abruptly stopped trying to make Christianity fit in my life, what I discovered was that the same things happened, good or bad, but I had to take responsibility for the results. I had to face issues now and make changes. For me, this was when I got my life back and started living fully.
I said to my ex yesterday “any false hope could kill me at anytime”. I think I wanna change it to “vague hope” after watching this, this is what I wanted to tell him. Thanks 😊
I spent 20+ years living in what my therapist called ‘false hope’ with a partner who sucked me dry emotionally and materially. I’m not a person of faith but I had faith that this person would grow into an equal partner. More fool me. Took a long time to learn that lesson. This is very apt. Cheers.
Vague hope is basically another word for gaslighting.
Vague hope reminds me a lot of "toxic positivity".
I have so many crazy theories that my Ti then either proves or disproves. It’s so fun. Definitely very childlike. “I wonder THIS!” then, later, after some research “whoa! I was WAY off but what I’ve learned now, is SO COOL!” is generally how it goes. Either that, or “YAY! I was correct! Now I wanna know even MORE about it!”
thanks for your existence, honestly
One more 'vague hope' example that particularly resonates with me is the hymn "God will take care of you." But how? I know it's meant to offer comfort, but all I think when I hear it is "Is that a threat or a promise?" I suppose it could be either...So, I'm anxious...
BTW - vague hope serves a purpose for people who have yet to come up w/ a feasible solution.
> I would not push anyone to “give up “ anything - that could be dangerous.
> Instead, I would recommend adding & or trying some new & different things, each day.
Like engage in mini new adventures. For example, do something opposite of what you usually do. Try a new food place. Visit a different park. Talk w. a person you feel is not in your league. Practice being interested in every little thing you do ..
Stuff like that - is so beneficial to overall neurological health & well being. 😍😇😄
I have listened to your struggle with growing up in a very strict, fundamental Christian home, which probably included many "vague hope" phrases that were little more than thinly veiled masks for other issues.
As a fellow INFJ, I can understand the need to get to the root of problems instead of dismissing them with nice-sounding cliches.
But even though Christians can resort to vague hope cliches when they really should be working through certain problems instead, there really is a difference between vague hope and certain hope as a believer in Christ.
It saddens me that your upbringing may have stripped away much that is truly beautiful, rational, and faith-filled about Who Jesus is and why, through Him, Christians can confidently say that yes, in the end, even if we are hurt or killed for our faith, that eternity with Christ means that it really does work out.
Jesus told us that we would have trials in this world, but to take heart for He overcame the world through His death and resurrection.
I say this as someone who is an overthinker and analyzer, who has been able to objectively look at things from many perspectives throughout the years.
I pray you will find healing and be able to move past a version of Christianity that was an insult to both your mind and spirit.
I enjoy your videos and resonate with your thinking process. Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts with all of us.
I would just like to clarify what you're saying here. It sounds like you're implying that dying is actually part of 'everything working out okay'? Do you think that's what most Christians mean when they say this? You think that they actually think being burnt in a cage fulfills that promise? Their children being tortured fulfills that promise? If so, I don't see how this isn't just a giant word game. If everything actually does works out okay, while using a normal cultural definition of what okay actually means, and nobody dies, then Christiains will rejoice that God fulfilled his promise. But if anything bad happens, no matter how horrendous it is, it is STILL all part of everything working out okay?
@@ClayArnall From a human, logical standpoint, it sounds insane, right? If we think that this life is all there is, then it's absolutely crazy.
But Christians truly believe that dying or being persecuted for their faith is an honor, in the same way Christ died for us.
Especially when this life pales in comparison to spending eternity with God.
Christians who die a martyr's death are rewarded even greater in heaven.
I understand that it sounds utterly foolish, and you don't believe in any of this. I get that.
Before I believed, it sounded that way to me. All I had was my human understanding until the day I realized that Jesus really is Who He said He was. In faith I believed it, and was then filled with the Holy Spirit.
Now that sounds weird too, I realize.
But it's not like I walked around afterwards in some strange trance and acted high or something.
But it did change me and my perspective on many things, long before some church teacher started telling me what to believe and even then, I questioned everything until I could fit things together myself.
Things that I thought were perfectly okay before, I suddenly was uncomfortable with. Even before finding out what the Bible said about it.
I could go on here and annoy you with more examples, but I also had both a peace and confidence that extended beyond who I normally was, that for the life of me, I couldn't articulate. It defied human logic.
Even now, in the midst of chronic health problems with no easy answers, ( but still working through them, rather than just making vague hope statements,) I
have a faith and peace outside of just myself that God gives me.
I know that this will be looked upon as a subjective experience at best, but I also hope that you can look past imperfect Christians, and seek Christ Himself. He promises that all who seek Him will find Him.
@@wonderingpilgrim Well the thing is I was a very devoted Christiain until I was about 30 years old. I studied the bible extensively, listened to many different teachers and even lead discussion groups to try to unpack the teachings. It was the centre point of my life. One thing I've noticed about Christiains nownately is that even though I tell people I 'was' a Christian, it is assumed that perhaps I never was a 'real' Christian. I find this quite annoying. The reality is, I completely agree there is a comfort in believing. In fact, that's statistically proven, that religious people, regardless of the religion, are happier and more hopeful. That's because all of life's hardest questions are answered for you. The anxiety of death is removed. But regardless, the thing is I did try to seek him to the best of my ability, so the fact that I didn't find him, what does that mean for the promise you reference that all who seek will find? All I've done my whole life is seek. The only response you could possibly make is to say that I never was a 'real' Christian or didn't seek in the 'right way'. Which in the end is just extremely assumptive and borderline insulting to attempt to know what I was or wasn't.
@@ClayArnall That's a really good point, and I will have to think about that, Clay.
I would also never say you weren't really a believer.
That is extremely annoying, and definitely insulting.
For the first 1500 years of Christianity, it was taught that a true believer could walk away, even after they found Him.
I guess in that context, you did find Him, but then chose not to remain in the faith.
It wasn't until the Protestant Reformation and Calvin's teaching on election and doctrine of eternal security that this understanding of false believers took root.
To be clear, there have always been false believers, but many of them actually stay in the church and cause a lot of damage, like televangelists who are always demanding money for private jets, etc.
Even then, I can't possibly judge for certain if they believe or not, but those who truly love Jesus usually don't go around using His Name to con people out of their money.
There are a lot of scriptures that point to someone genuinely being in the faith but then walking away.
If you had been in the faith that long, then you've most likely heard it all and will only become annoyed with much of what I have to say.
But know that I come from a place that genuinely seeks to understand, as well as share my own experiences, rather than just merely "Bible Thumping " you.
I guess my biggest concern is that whatever you went through might have caused a warped sense of Christianity. I have heard that from other fundamental Christians who were simply done with Christ because of Christians that caused them a lot of pain.
Also, there is a scripture that refers to someone who is always learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. So it is possible to seek, have Jesus reveal Himself to a person through the scriptures and the Holy Spirit, but never in faith repent of their sins and believe in Him and Who He is.
I am certainly not saying you are in this camp either, but only that this happens as well.
Love the Q&A formula!
Apologies are very misunderstood. Apologies are the conclusion/report of a problem solving process. That means an apology should consist out of:
- Problem Identification (What was the problem?)
- Problem Resolution plan (How to solve the problem?)
- Problem Resolution action (What did I do to solve the problem?)
- Success Report (What worked?)
- Failure Report (What did not work?)
- Future plan (What will I do?)
Example: Sorry for insulting you by calling you thick (Problem Identification). In future I will use more appropriate words (Problem Resolution Action). Please know, if I call you thick, it's meant as compliment (Problem Resolution Action in action).
As my example show, some points need to be done (1 + 2), but mots of them can be done while the apology itself. In my example the success report, failure report and future plan may be discussed while the apology, But in other situation they can nbe done upfront.
Vague hope is TOXIC to the INFJ!! I couldn’t LIVE with it in my marriage any more. So I made the difficult decision to divorce, despite knowing it would pain my babies. (They’re both teens.) Earlier this week, my husband took his own life. He couldn’t rug sweep the reality of having to create a life for himself (and his time with our children) on his own, without me making everything easy for him.
yes, good point...there are pro's a cons to all of these messages....It's a matter of discernment....and/or "chewing the meat and spitting out the bones"....and it also should be said that sometimes "hope" is all that's available. I mean we can do what we can do, and "should" do what we can do...but sometimes that's not enough and hope/prayer/new ideas to consider, etc, are all that's left. I totally agree though that "rug sweeping" is THE WORST! ...especially when these "vague hopes" are fed to us by people who are just avoiding appropriate action....or worse....manipulating us to "hang in there" for long enough that eventually they can say "you've really been stuck on that for a long time...maybe it's time to let it go" (a tactic often used by narcissists....along with another, which is what I call "non-pologies")
Ultimately I believe anything...)whether it's a hopeful message...and inspirational message....proverbs...a political belief...pretty much any ideaology..).holds the potential to be helpful or harmful. The trick is growing our self awareness to the point that we're not fooling ourselves or allowing ourselves to be fooled by others. The more self awareness we have, it almost doesn't matter what "vaguely hopeful" messages come our way... We can consider them...and with brutal self-honesty, determine if they fit the situation at hand...and if not....then just toss them.
I loved the second question. I am a black, female, infj. It’s quite interesting out here 😅
Vague hope is extremely unnerving to me, because as you stated, it minimizes my legitimate concern. It’s rude and sometimes even borders on gaslighting. “Oh you’re just worrying over nothing”. It’s also mean because they’re waving me and my concerns off, as if I don’t even matter. What if I feel scared? What if I see a path to resolution? Why are you trying to knock me off kilter?
Clay, any thoughts on INfJ apathy? I feel like my introverted intuition leads me to thoughts that are depressing in that this world isn’t doing what it should be, when in fact solutions seem so simple to me. If you listen to the song ‘Can You Afford To Be An Individual’ by Nothing But Thieves, it does a really great job of telling my exact thoughts about our sociopolitical climate (especially here in the US). Let me know, or feel free to use this question in another video!
In my video on 8 reasons for INFJ burnout, I talk a bit about this. One of the top reasons for burnout is paying too close attention to what is happening in the world that is outside of your control. There's a lot of nonsense happening everywhere you look, and if you spend too much time on it, it will drag you down into depression. That's why I recommend not even reading the news. Also, try to Ignore politics or anything else that is based on status wars.
Good song!
Yay for NBT fans! I third this, "CAN YOU AFFORD TO BE AN INDIVIDUAL" just hits all those emotions on how we feel about wtf is going on right now... such an anthem.
I know one ENFJ very well, and she is so warm! The child Se comes out prominently when we've gone on walks together and she's pointed out various details that I would have completely missed in my inferior Se default, and watching her revert to some pretty weak Ti when under stress is a little amusing.
But yes, generally ENFJs have this natural warmth with people that makes me a little jealous, although I've noticed they often have difficulty listening to their Ni when it comes to getting away from people who are not healthy for them.
I just cant tell you how many times ive had conflict in close relationships bc i wont sweep things under the rug!😂 My MBTI consult suggested i may flip back and forth btween F/T bc my numbers were really close on the test. But maybe i just hv a well developed Ti. Cant explain how that happened. Much as you say, i hv these theories and can sometimes prove them. Other times some big "expert" appears on TV or i run across a book with the same ideas and proof. I get super excited when that happens. Funny you mentioned the small percentage of blacks in Vancouver. It is on my list of places im considering moving to (black infj). Thanks for the breakdown on the MBTI stacks. This is the first time where i fully get it. I now hv a better understanding of my functions and can be more cognizant (and gentle) with myself when the weaknesses kick in and consciously modify them to improve my life and better understand myself.
I am actually in a really good mood now, but the way you describe people right now in this video makes me believe all my friends are narcisists, haha
Great video! I like this set up.
Hey Clay😊 First of all, this is such a a great video and channel to begin with, and I love how you break down concepts and we think about a lot of the same things. I also wanna say that I’ve been wondering if you’re an ENFJ for months now. ENFJ and INFJ are very similar, and I know it’s very easy for anyone to say you’re an introvert cause you have a calm presence and you seem “deep” which is not often attributed to Extroverts, even ENFJ. But I do think that I am also very reserved, even more so in person than on camera cause I project myself the same way you said you do. And yeah, I don’t know. I just really felt severe connection and similarity to you.
But you answered very cleanly, and I trust your assessment. You said that the ENFJ you know are warm and comforting and nothing like “Oh they talk so much” etc. I also love that you really broke down the functions. Especially talking about Se > Ti in the ENFJ vs Ti > Se in the INFJ. You really understand Type unlike a lot who often stick to dichotomy. And I like that once again you don’t just say stereotypical things. You didn’t describe Se in the ENFJ as bombastic and wild. And yeah, you aren’t INTP In my opinion. Your Fe is too strong haha. Either way, I love your channel and I appreciate you taking time to address the question.
Keep up what you’re doing, man. Would love to interview you sometime. Would be dope to discuss concepts sometime or even have it be covering ENFJ and INFJ differences and similarities of ours, especially as men.
“Suffering breeds character “...type thinking. Survival will impart learning, but not necessarily make one a better person. “ God has a plan” thinking, seems like veiled, helplessness. I can’t change it, so,... believe that, it’s for my own good, I just can’t see it yet?...loved ones in my life, really like these life tactics. I sometimes, with I could hide there, as well. Just can’t.
One thing I need to expend and which I really don't because everything. that HurtS
makes so much sense
it's acting like I was afraid of FACTS
but now I like how people say they're
old school
AS IF MIXING
THIS WITH THAT
WASN'T WANTED
4/LACKING TRUST
ONCE
IN US HONEST. ONES
Gets THOSE SOFTIES
HARDER THEN
ANY BRANCHES
THE STRONGEST
CORE
CANT PART ME FROM
In our personality’s raw, reactive state, us INFJs are much easier typed by others bc our strengths are strong and our weaknesses are obvious. However, IF we choose to work on our weaknesses and rein in our strengths, we become harder to peg. Plus INFJs are chameleons, so we can become what you need us to be for a brief time. If we do start to place boundaries, speak OUR truths, take social risks, and stop fixing everyone, we become more healthy, mature INFJs, but much less immediately recognizable as an INFJ. Which give us great delight to fool you, bc we love our ambiguity 😆
Couldn’t have said it better myself. You said what I had in my mind.
It's interesting that you bring up the whole "INFJs are 1% of the population" stat. I wonder about that too, especially because (at least in my experience and from what I've noticed from others) we generally feel like the outcasts of society. There is an overwhelming feeling that there is no one like us and that no one could possibly understand our perspective. Whether that's true or not seems unclear. Maybe part of it has to do with our lack of communication skills? How could someone understand us properly if we can't explain ourselves? Maybe that general feeling of aloneness is amplified by our personality type, leading us to believe that we are in fact only 1% of the population when in actuality it's much more than that. It could be that a lot of people mis-type themselves, but I've definitely come across more than 1% of people in my life who type themselves as INFJ.
If you keep on sweeping things under the rug...sooner or later you will trip over the bump 🙄
Love that
the funny thing is they do not know really what the plan is to follow it.
Hi Clay, I am trying to get to the reasons why You think that being paraplegic in the hospital doesn't make You stronger.
Please elaborate.
The greater the insight, the more the infj I think.
I don't understand why these people just because they cannot relate to you at some point felt like hey you prolly mistyped yourself and i am the real one, It's gets annoying really like hey since i cannot relate to you over this part so i am assuming that you are not the same kind as my type. They did'nt realized that it is same as telling you, you are fake and lying to yourself and i am the genuine one. Wow. I don't think there is any type that has been judge and criticized more than the "rare" type infj and sometimes i just wanna be something else cause i know if i tell other people i am an infj they will instantly judge me like anyone else. It's so sad that these shallow things like putting a person in a box and if you don't fit in that box you're out of it when all you want is to just basically belong in everyone's box and to be understood but because the name infj itself is so damning that is rare they already judge you for being one. An infj if they are really honest to themselves would not be spreading false information about themselves if they are not sure about it, if they don't painstakingly studied it and researched about the functions and everything and finally come to a conclusion they might be one after all the research and there you are judging what they had already judge themselves in the first place about what type they are because you happen to be so "expert" to watching their videos which is just like not even a half of what they are in real life. Truth be told but not all infj or even whatever type you are, are the same.
I wholeheartedly feel your frustrations and agree. Not all infjs are the same, and that’s okay!
Let me just say.. lol.. when I heard the recorded question I got mad. I'm an INFJ and I don't like people questioning my type instead of looking at themselves and questioning their own type. In my mind I'm like "if you have a question ask it, but don't tell me who I am or I'm not" 😂 I'm triggered.
Vague hope.. umm.. i resonate with the idea that is our own responsibility of every movement we made, basically, but is not ut what makes us human by using the vague hope ater all? I mean, we dont even decide fully of why we are human at the begining? Do you know that actually? Umm, so, it relates with the ending too like we do not know it even we resonsible fully about it. Ah.. interesting
Somebody can say it is my problem if I see something that others do not.
If people are trying to guess someone's type and name that many, they're probably infj haha
Hello everyone i have a question for you
But it looks simple but its very deep and I as an Infj cant answer it in a full answer
What are words and why they have understanding(beacuse we give meaning but how did we do that?) and how we can understand them :p
I feel like im really different from anyone and from other Infj (i didnt met anyone in real life but) Im really like an Entp i dont care so much about to debate with people to make them uncomfortable and yet when they are in trouble I will sacrifice all my time just to make them smile And i have a problem that I talk alot.Im very scared if i dont train to talk i wont be able to talk about my ideas
Those things that i said may be weird but idk Im typed as an Infj everywhere but may it can be beacuse of my friend idk xD cus i have so many friends in school and i just shared my idea with them and i start to talk nonstop in 5 th grad in 4 i didnt talk but when my class talked alot i wont say any word but one day when i say a teacher that my class is making noise and he said you are making the most when i didnt say any word i got so madddd that from that end of year i was the first person to talk more than my class than anyone i asked them really everything that comes to my mind the dumbest thing they have heard like idont remember very wall but like hihihihi how are you did you learn tell me about why bank as four leg and why not 5 what if you cut your hair how would you feel why you look like this ex like a tree xD hahaha and they get really mad but idk this world is confusion in the maximum
A advice:I as an Infj have really big gifts that we couldnt never exchange with anything but we may be so naive to want easy things like ur looks that is not really important if someone is more good looking like you no one only infj can have super rarest gift to understand this life and to take the most of it bring light to this dark human being that are very not careful about their action
Love you Infj pls pls pls im struggle with this problem but the best advice from me to you is dont compare yourself to others but make yourself better when you was yesterday and try to think what can i do in a day free time to do to acomplish your goals
Love you all
If we wouldnt have those problem like sadness depresion etc it would be unfair for others type to not have those gift like is a fair building that we so little can understand but the truth is the truth and no lie can deny it
This is also what I call pulling the “God” card; the “oh, God knows”, or using God as an excuse for not knowing something. Makes me laugh.
Its like the forgot
Sry cant speak with out rymes or over ANALYZING
But they fall in love luck baguette the talk about nothing to really know about the Wish Upon a Star the one they reach where they are what they want they don't be like oh no it's okay not doing everything that they promised but they get it is it all know it was me it was but when you're talking about the people in the car as they use it as your do Harriet Tubman came up out of the ground from the state came here is like nobody has appreciated out here and they know where their asses came up but when they don't get what they want pull that card and this will be the first song People appreciate it people were actually humid I just want to do I meant to say human using the voice audio texting cuz I got to live in nervous and
It's funny when they say they're not judgemental but then it asked me why I changed my weight it's like okay then I guess you are we we once again I'm using the voice audio text Dave who is this time to write but what makes me laugh like when they say I'm crazy but they want to go cray cray I guess that is your crayon and I'm saying I'm about to reach Insanity I guess so
I hate vague hope so much.
Those vague hope quotes are cheeseball and kinda false positivity people use to avoid fixing an actual problem. However, is it just me or do you feel incredibly cynical when you press it? Like the example of a guy getting burned in a cage. The realist in me knows that JUST believing in God doesn’t mean everything’s gonna be alright but if I attack the comment with logical questions, I just feel like a Debbie Downer - maybe because those comments would only be made (by me) regarding someone elses situation, only because I wouldn’t use this kind of false positivity to try to avoid tackling my own problems.
Good Lord that’s a confusing comment. Whatever, made sense in my head. It’s 6AM and I haven’t been to sleep 🥴🤦🏻♀️😂
yes, I think a lot of people confuse being a realist with being a pessimist.
I think fake, er, vague hope is offered by those who have nothing concrete or useful to suggest. Retired INTJ doorslam for them....
You're so cute😊😍 I'm enjoying watching your video.
Hey some people in the comments >> Did you *really* think *you* could type Clay? Do you live in his head and heart? Did you know him his entire life? How stupid do you have to be to watch his videos and think you know what he is better than he does? FFS... go figure your own selves out first - the # of mis-typed confused individuals out there is staggering.
Wait ..
What ?
Did you say - in real life you don’t talk ? 🤔 Is it bc of lack of social congruency ? IE - you haven’t met people to verbally engage w: the way you like to ?
No way, you're much too close to an INTJ and ENTP, therefore your Ti is much more developed than an ENFJ's, and also would say you're more introverted.