Here’s a story: my brother got accepted to Chicago Med School, drove more than halfway across the US to get there, and decided within the first week, that he didn’t want to become a doctor. He called my Dad, who is a doctor, and told him this. My Dad said, “Come home then. Don’t waste your time doing what you don’t want to do.” He came home, enrolled in a one-year teaching program. Met his wife. Became an elementary school teacher, became an elementary school principle, became an assistant superintendent in a very large school district, and now works at a university in their education department. Through the years he got a masters and doctorate degree on top of his teaching degree. He is happy and content.
The stock example is a great one which I have experienced many times, and having also walked away from a 9 year legal career I can relate to this a lot! Reminds me of the Warren Buffett quote "should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks."
I honestly have no problem ignoring sunk costs. That always surprises me. But the way I see it is that I tend to focus on the greater value, yes there is money going to waste, but at the end of the day, I saved myself in another way. And that is more important to me. And I also tend to focus on the future, when I make a mistake I tend to shut it down, I don’t like to dwell on it, yes I made a mistake, yes I received the consequences, now let me be and let me move on. [Here’s a recent example: My friend and I reserved a plane ticket and hotel room for a trip just at the end of February, non refundable, covid was just beginning to surface, I could’ve went, but I didn’t want to put my family at risk when I come back. I had no problem letting that money go. My friend wasn’t, she kept asking me to check with the hotel and try to convince them. I was like: no I don’t care, I made a mistake, if you want I’ll pay you back the money you lost, but I’m done with dwelling on it. It’s already painful that I couldn’t go, now I have to deal with the things that rub it in my face even more. So I was good with that decision.]
Nada Pw I used to look at things this way... ignoring sunk costs, not dwelling, moving forward... but I lost the ability to in just the past few years and I don’t know how to get it back. The rug got pulled out from under me and then the cost became too steep it scared the crap out of me. Now I try really hard to keep myself from drifting into the future. It’s too scary to live there right now.
Wow ! I loved your video. Thank you for your precious insights. I definitely would leave the movie theater 😅😅I lost 5 years of my life to get my PhD...And 7 years being a university professor (socially prestigious....)....And I was miserable... I woke up one day and decided to stop wasting more years. Now I earn les money, I have less social "prestige"...but I am much happier.
You have this amazing ability to articulate things I think about that I have trouble communicating. The social pressure about this kind of thing is immense and unhelpful, but I do think it's sometimes difficult to figure out whether something is indeed the wrong choice or if it is just going through a difficult phase. What I find perplexing is that decisions that do ignore sunk costs tend to be viewed as impulsive no matter how much thought was actually put into them.
I think most decisions are that way if you're a type of person that thinks in private. We could think for 2 years about whether to end a relationship, and then one day when we actually do it, people see it as coming out of nowhere. Along with that comes judgement of making flippant decisions. But that's why we have to move forward without worrying too much about what people think :)
I think it is actually quite confident to quit something, because it shows that you know who you are and what you want out of life. I think that the only way forward is to take action, so you have to start somewhere and usually it will make sense when you look back at your life. I also quit a career choice that I had worked really hard to achieve, but the thing is, the thing I'm doing now I wouldn't be able to do back then because the job did not exist. So trust yourself and your intuition and walk away if it does not feel right anymore. About relationships, yes sunk costs is way worse in relationships, I think it is also something to do with the term that is called 'cognitive dissonance' that if you have stayed in a bad relationship for a while, then you end up convinced that this is what you deserve because otherwise you would not stay in the relationship. Anyway, yeah, after a bad relationship I don't think we regret leaving, but there might be a feeling of 'missing what we thought we had', like the idea, the memory or the illusion of the person in question.
I have a bright highlighter yellow sweater that I taught myself to knit during the 1980's...post college...at the time I was depressed and assessing sunk costs to the core. In my defense the color of the yarn didn't look so bright wrapped up in a skein. This lovely, flawed sweater is hanging in the back of my closet as a reminder of when to walk away...and when to persist... I had to persist through my last year of college to finish my undergraduate degree...through the sexual harassment of my supposed mentor who I expected would guide me through graduate school and early career moves...At the time there were others who had experienced the same thing...but no one would come forward...Ah, I had no literal proof except for my word...as he reminded me... So, sunk costs...when to walk away...ergo my "ugly" yellow sweater...which is now more valuable to me than my college degree...
Lately I decided to give away a bunch of clothes that I’ve bought in the past. I always thought I would end up selling them on the internet due to sunk cost but now, when push comes to shove, I realized I don’t want to. Instead I’m going to be giving them away to my friends; I have a small bit to give to all of them that are curated based on their personal style 😊 I believe sunk cost is a huge factor behind hoarding behavior. This video hits home for a lot of reasons in my life right now... thank you for that, and keep up the great work!!
Like the friggin Titanic...... Or you could stop thinking of the $50 bucks as a wasted ticket, look for someone in the ticket line who looks like they could do with a free ticket, and make their day a bit brighter. Then that $50 bucks will have paid back the original trip that you would have gone on alone, and you’re luckier anyhow, because now you get to catch up with a friend and that right there is priceless.
I agree that would be nice, but if you could give it to somebody else, it wouldn’t be a sunk anymore. The analogy only works if it’s non returnable and non transferable. The ticket would have to be not used to be a true sunk cost.
Interesting analogy hoarding and sunk costs: that you identify with form not with the content. And the remark that succesfull people stop with something as soon as they see a better chance, instead of finishing
For someone who went through many changes in life, sunk cost related guilt has really bothered me for a while but I'm glad I quit my PhD. My health was suffering at that time and I lacked insight. Yes I am not in a stable position yet. It does bother me where I stand in society with my peers but I have done self searching. Sometimes what we do with our lives is in our hands.
I studied law for three years even though that wasn't exciting me and I didn't see my future in that field. At that time, I found it difficult to stop, but also found it difficult to continue. Finally near the end of the three years of studying law, I decided to change paths. I took a few years off, then studied graphic design, and now I get to enjoy doing something I love to do, create art, and get paid for it. My extended family still doesn't understand why I didn't finish my law degree, no matter how many times I tell them I wasn't happy. Yes, I'm an INFJ. No, I don't regret switching from law to graphic design. Am I happy now? Yes!
I prefer to minimize opportunity cost than sunk cost. Possibilities are more interesting than baggages of the past. Perhaps it is the nature of intuitive types 🙂 we are bad at cost accounting. Intuitives are good at pursuit of wonders against all odds. One thing for sure, such selective forgetfulness on “sunk cost” helps this type survive bad experiences, traumas, heartaches, then move on in their lives. INFJs & INTJs will say, “I told you” in a positive tone when the future is better than the past.
My husband and I, have left the theater once and it was the movie Alexander. It was painful to watch for us so we decided to leave rather than endure through it.
As an INTJ, I spend so much time ruminating on options to prevent or minimize sunk costs. My challenge then becomes not sacrificing opportunity costs (time or other resources) by planning for perfection.
Why hasn’t this thought process been dropped into my brain until now? Or was I just not listening in the past? I like how you started with an obvious, almost daily, sunk cost example of deciding which thing to cut our losses. I have been in so many relationships or jobs waaaay too long because of investment of time and energy, or weighing how it will make me look or affect other people, which caused me to willingly extend my prison sentence. I have wondered how other people can just suddenly change directions in their lives and find myself internally judging them for not sticking it out. So, your analysis of stepping outside of ourselves and seeing it as a gift to ourselves where we can change course, reminds me that it takes bravery and risk-taking to do this-muscles that many of us have not exercised. Instead we wear our now-dead choices like badges of honor, leaving us in emotional (and perhaps financial) poverty. This was a great thought to mull about in my head today...thank you, Clay. 😊
I am glad I changed my mayor after two years and finished a diffrent one last month in three. I would never have thought to choose it if It weren‘t for the first one. I am also so thankful for other choices I made because of that change or more specific the impact it had on me and my character development, ... if that makes sense.
Time with a true friend is always worth more than money 💜 With movies, I'll watch to the end, holding onto hope it gets better. Halfway through tech school, trauma hit, and I just quit. Had to pay all of it regardless. Tough lesson. Fixing that soonish, at least 💜
This is me... 2 of 3 years in my psychotherapy program. I want to be a psychotherapist but I don’t like the direction the field is taking... it’s becoming less holistic/humanistic and more clinical BUT I REFUSE TO QUIT even though I just admitted to myself over the weekend that my heart is no longer in it. There is so much resistance, there are further obstacles that are popping up but I refuse to quit my program. I’m negotiating with my physical, mental, and emotional health to just push through. It’s such a painful process. The problem is I don’t know what else to do if I quit. Thanks for the chat. I still plan on finishing and trying to use my training to do something different than the traditional path of psychotherapy. I hear you but I’m terrified of walking away. Same way with my relationships. :( Happy Monday...
Clay Arnall Yeah, I hear you. “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water?” 😂 that’s what I keep telling myself... but that physical, internal feeling working against what I “want” feels immovable sometimes. Ni can only take us so far, so fast before Se slows us down. Like you said, freedom is what I need ultimately (crave) and it seems what I think I “want” keeps getting in the way of that freedom. I miss dancing, and photography, working out, and just sitting in silence in nature... all of these I’ve slowly had to let go to make space for my program. INFJs cling on until we see it through and that’s often to the exclusion of everything else. It’s not good for us.
Hey! That's a great field...you can do alot with a psych degree. It's used in every field and will give you an edge on being hired almost any field. So not such a bad problem to have.
@@grumpyschnauzer Yes, I quit nothing unless it's classified as a misery factor of 8 or more. The older I get the more okay I get with quitting things because I want all my time spent on anything I do to be fulfilling
Ahh this is a great topic! Don't have questions to record, just too many thoughts and tangents. Here are a few. -The problem with sunk costs is that it only works to leave something when it's very clear it is not the right choice. Banking on something else that appears good may not always be the right choice. Take it from an ENFP and the grass is always greener phenomenon. I've concluded that personally if I have to do something for a living I will never love it. Tolerating it is important. So is loving parts of it. Relationships are a whole new level too complex to comment on. -I think it's ego that is the issue and not self confidence. However, I agree with you in that it's not always optimal to be too confident...for many other reasons. -Also there's these two opposing theories. "To succeed means to persevere"/"where there's a will there's a way," versus "don't cling to a mistake just because you've spent a lot of time making it." Both I think are true; It's up to us to pick the right one in the right moment. Which is why I think the king of all philosophies is bringing it back to the Greeks. Παν μέτρον άριστον. Everything in moderation.
So put the ticket in a scrapbook with a little story about it, and go with the friend. Paint example: always repaint in the colour you like. Don't bother trying to live in a room or house that's a colour you don't like. That's bad energy. Movie: get up and walk out.
Hi! Interesting topic. I always have tried to turn decisions into research projects. First, I include misery factor....If finishing the degree is going to make me miserable, I place a number from 1 to 10 on how miserable it will make me. I research what are my options and go forth with my decision. Marriage, same thing. Not worth the misery...if its like an 8 on the misery scale and you have done all the research to move where your quality of life will be a misery factor of 0 or 1, then that increases the value of the choice and decreases the value of the sunk cost. I also changed my degree from Acctg to Finance....I had decided that Accounting would give me a misery factor of 10 so if I was miserable, then my quality of life would have been poor and that actually has sunk costs too!. So, in the end, make the change and lead a healthy happy life.... Now , the stock, choice is the same....I research the market and decide the best option. That comes with maturity....I fell in love with a Future option once and lost 200 dollars. That taught me not to fall in love with stocks or bonds. That decision has to be research based. There is no other way to look at that. What do you think?
I love this video! No question, I will sink costs in a good cause any day, however in relationships I have a limit on sunk costs and it varies per person but once the life line is depleted I am very willing to let go most of the time, I am working on making it 100% of the time.
for me the 'sunk cost' has not really ever been about things or $. But the relationship aspect has been problematic. It's the same for the 'door slam' -- I have done it - but only AFTER having tried and tried repeatedly to resolve the issues - but that is very difficult to do when the other is unwilling to look at themselves or the relationship and acknowledge and deal with the issues. By the time the 'door slam' comes I have NO more energy to invest in that relationship (and yes, I can then become quite 'cold') it is protective.
Thank you for this video Clay, you are always doing such insightful videos. I finally feel a bit better about leaving the second part of my master's. It's even tougher for perfectionists to leave anything because it feels like triple the failure! Cheers.
This was extremely helpful Clay, thank you!🙏🏼😊🙏🏼 I really love the concept of viewing past time, investments, and commitments as GIFTS from your past self. That itself is a game changer!! I'm the same way and have a hard time admitting something wasn't as expected, or I made a wrong decision for myself at the time etc... instead if viewing it as a gift, even if it the gift of learning 'hey, this isn't for you, its okay to switch gears'. The advice you gave on relationships was awesome too, stepping back would you be choosing the same relationship again? I left my marriage to another Infj, my best friend, for an enfp ...and it ended up being extremely toxic and very abusive. ALL those sunk costs, relocated from Sask. to Texas, sold house, business, all of my material possessions only to feel so trapped and alone in this new country. The sunk costs built up for five years and I continued to stay despite it the abuse. Finally I left, yet sometimes I'll ask myself, should I of tried harder? was that the right choice to make? Your 'would you choose this relationship again?' question cleared that all up, NO, not in a million years, thank you, this provided so much mental freedom from the hamster wheel of regret. 🙏🏼
When I think of the decisions I have made under the influence of this fallacy! Ouch! I had never been aware of this before watching your video. So for that I am grateful! Happy Thanksgiving!
Isn’t it interesting how most all these scenarios revolve around a monetary cost (among others? What would our society look like... what would people do (i.e. their passions) were money not a factor in decision-making?
Clay Arnall Agreed. I also feel that since our current society uses money as a reflection of one’s value/specificity (i.e. amount per hour) and notion of time invested (i.e. total amount earned), it is roughly equivalent to say that money earned represents time invested (in most cases). I feel people would be a lot more willing to pursue passions were they not beholden to money investments, as with the case of deciding a college major as you mentioned in the video. Side note - I’m interested in podcasts! I would love to follow your thoughts on there as well. Thanks Clay!
@@ClayArnall yes time and effort is the hardest one to walk away from and i get stuck in analytical paralysis. Because one of the things i highly value is time. If i give you my time that is the most precious thing i can give. I would not want to waste yours or mine.
The degree -- that's tricky. Getting the degree -- not wanting to work in that field, is there a way to write a book about it? Journal the last year? Wow, never thought about that one.
Yes, very crucial with my life. I'm alot older. In college had to take losses on a few classes because of just being not comfortable. I wish I had done that with relationships earlier than I did. So I'm much better at non relationship decisions.
lol i was going to ask you what do you think about making your videos as podcast too and found my answer at the end, thank you for talking about this topic!
I do was in a situation were i realized i didnt like what i was studying but i already spended like 3 years on that, like you said i thought about my parents and i also thought that it would be a waste to just leave at that point, so i finished that degree, i even make a good effort and finish that last year with very good grades, then i do worked on that field while studying the other one , i hated those jobs but i could pay the other degree with that. but yeah i do have to admit that it took a lot of time to finished and find a work (specially fing a job) and then make the decision to work and study, here i am 27 year old me almost finishing that new degree, but it could be a maybe 24 year old me finishing the right degree if i just took the other path
Sunk costs....Story of my life....Personally I always kiss those costs goodbye in favor of the best overall outcome....and I have kissed a L O T of money and time goodbye in my life. To me, it's "just money and time"...which is one type of "currency", sure....but there is also "quality" on the other side of the equation. As long as we're cognizant of the actual "tradeoff" and still feel the better option is to "let those costs sink!"...then that's 100% fine in my book. I recently painted my garage door (6? times...I stopped counting after a while) until I got the color right. Do I "enjoy" all of this painting? No. But it would bother me more for a longer period of time if, every time I pulled into my driveway I was annoyed by the color of my garage door. Yes, paint can get expensive...especially if you're buying it one quart at a time...and my own "time"...painting and re-painting...was also a factor, but for me it wasn't even a question. It had to be done and I consider any "waste" along the way "par for the course" and sometimes even a lesson in how to avoid "the long and expensive path" next time. Allowing these costs to prevent us from what choices would otherwise be "obvious" is known as "loss aversion bias". To me, the story of the train ticket would be a perfect one to illustrate this....that is, "if" the person decided they had to take the train because they already paid for the ticket. That would just be goofy. I know someone who makes decisions like these on a pretty regular basis (I think they've just been overly conditioned to value money over everything else and are not yet aware of it), but I like this person so I just keep my mouth shut for the most part...or, if it's really getting out of hand I might crack a little friendly joke about it or "drop a line" about loss aversion bias, in the hope that they might possibly become a little more conscious of the pattern without risking offending them.
oh...and I would and HAVE totally decided 15 minutes into a movie....NOT WORTH MY TIME!....shut it off and did something else. Is that unusual? I think it might be, but I'm not sure.
I've been in training to become an aviation mechanic and I'm finding out i have no interest working in this aviation field. I enjoy mechanical work for example cars, Being a relatively quiet person Im finding the aviation field is not a place for me where your expected to have excellent interpersonal, Oral and written skills which I struggle with. I'm two years in but I'm only interested in the money its self only.
Wow. I guess it all depends on what it is. Not sure if this is an infj thing but I know I'd rather just finish than waste more and being wasteful but that is why I really really make sure I know what I want and if I change my mind oh well, too bad so sad.....
I see this fruitless way of thinking, in people’s relationships. “But we’ve been together for x amount of years”... with an investment more precious than money, time. I have always felt, that when you become clear about something,... reevaluate, and make the next best choice. Not admitting to the new perspective seems very Ego based, to me. I don’t mind being wrong, as long as I correct when I realize it. Worth something.... isn’t value a very subjective idea?
I would used the train ticket. But if my friend is a worth it, I would go with my friend (because even then, the friend itself is a “cost”) . Because not all friends are created equal.
![เปิดคำทำนาย นอสตราดามุส - บาบา วานก้า ปี 2025 คนทั่วโลกต้องเจออะไรบ้าง? | แฉ 11 ธ.ค. 67 [2/3] |GMM25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xmTIKWJUMPM/mqdefault.jpg)
Here’s a story: my brother got accepted to Chicago Med School, drove more than halfway across the US to get there, and decided within the first week, that he didn’t want to become a doctor. He called my Dad, who is a doctor, and told him this. My Dad said, “Come home then. Don’t waste your time doing what you don’t want to do.” He came home, enrolled in a one-year teaching program. Met his wife. Became an elementary school teacher, became an elementary school principle, became an assistant superintendent in a very large school district, and now works at a university in their education department. Through the years he got a masters and doctorate degree on top of his teaching degree. He is happy and content.
Top tier father
The stock example is a great one which I have experienced many times, and having also walked away from a 9 year legal career I can relate to this a lot! Reminds me of the Warren Buffett quote "should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks."
I honestly have no problem ignoring sunk costs. That always surprises me. But the way I see it is that I tend to focus on the greater value, yes there is money going to waste, but at the end of the day, I saved myself in another way. And that is more important to me. And I also tend to focus on the future, when I make a mistake I tend to shut it down, I don’t like to dwell on it, yes I made a mistake, yes I received the consequences, now let me be and let me move on. [Here’s a recent example: My friend and I reserved a plane ticket and hotel room for a trip just at the end of February, non refundable, covid was just beginning to surface, I could’ve went, but I didn’t want to put my family at risk when I come back. I had no problem letting that money go. My friend wasn’t, she kept asking me to check with the hotel and try to convince them. I was like: no I don’t care, I made a mistake, if you want I’ll pay you back the money you lost, but I’m done with dwelling on it. It’s already painful that I couldn’t go, now I have to deal with the things that rub it in my face even more. So I was good with that decision.]
Nada Pw I used to look at things this way... ignoring sunk costs, not dwelling, moving forward... but I lost the ability to in just the past few years and I don’t know how to get it back. The rug got pulled out from under me and then the cost became too steep it scared the crap out of me. Now I try really hard to keep myself from drifting into the future. It’s too scary to live there right now.
Nada Pw Good on you. Life is a daily gamble. Know when to hold them and know when to fold them. Well played.
Wow ! I loved your video. Thank you for your precious insights.
I definitely would leave the movie theater 😅😅I lost 5 years of my life to get my PhD...And 7 years being a university professor (socially prestigious....)....And I was miserable... I woke up one day and decided to stop wasting more years. Now I earn les money, I have less social "prestige"...but I am much happier.
You have this amazing ability to articulate things I think about that I have trouble communicating. The social pressure about this kind of thing is immense and unhelpful, but I do think it's sometimes difficult to figure out whether something is indeed the wrong choice or if it is just going through a difficult phase. What I find perplexing is that decisions that do ignore sunk costs tend to be viewed as impulsive no matter how much thought was actually put into them.
I think most decisions are that way if you're a type of person that thinks in private. We could think for 2 years about whether to end a relationship, and then one day when we actually do it, people see it as coming out of nowhere. Along with that comes judgement of making flippant decisions. But that's why we have to move forward without worrying too much about what people think :)
I let go of sunk costs. Life is too short. Our life/time is more important than everything else.
I think it is actually quite confident to quit something, because it shows that you know who you are and what you want out of life. I think that the only way forward is to take action, so you have to start somewhere and usually it will make sense when you look back at your life. I also quit a career choice that I had worked really hard to achieve, but the thing is, the thing I'm doing now I wouldn't be able to do back then because the job did not exist. So trust yourself and your intuition and walk away if it does not feel right anymore.
About relationships, yes sunk costs is way worse in relationships, I think it is also something to do with the term that is called 'cognitive dissonance' that if you have stayed in a bad relationship for a while, then you end up convinced that this is what you deserve because otherwise you would not stay in the relationship. Anyway, yeah, after a bad relationship I don't think we regret leaving, but there might be a feeling of 'missing what we thought we had', like the idea, the memory or the illusion of the person in question.
BirkeClara Spot on!
I have a bright highlighter yellow sweater that I taught myself to knit during the 1980's...post college...at the time I was depressed and assessing sunk costs to the core. In my defense the color of the yarn didn't look so bright wrapped up in a skein. This lovely, flawed sweater is hanging in the back of my closet as a reminder of when to walk away...and when to persist...
I had to persist through my last year of college to finish my undergraduate degree...through the sexual harassment of my supposed mentor who I expected would guide me through graduate school and early career moves...At the time there were others who had experienced the same thing...but no one would come forward...Ah, I had no literal proof except for my word...as he reminded me...
So, sunk costs...when to walk away...ergo my "ugly" yellow sweater...which is now more valuable to me than my college degree...
Lately I decided to give away a bunch of clothes that I’ve bought in the past. I always thought I would end up selling them on the internet due to sunk cost but now, when push comes to shove, I realized I don’t want to. Instead I’m going to be giving them away to my friends; I have a small bit to give to all of them that are curated based on their personal style 😊 I believe sunk cost is a huge factor behind hoarding behavior. This video hits home for a lot of reasons in my life right now... thank you for that, and keep up the great work!!
Like the friggin Titanic......
Or you could stop thinking of the $50 bucks as a wasted ticket, look for someone in the ticket line who looks like they could do with a free ticket, and make their day a bit brighter. Then that $50 bucks will have paid back the original trip that you would have gone on alone, and you’re luckier anyhow, because now you get to catch up with a friend and that right there is priceless.
I agree that would be nice, but if you could give it to somebody else, it wouldn’t be a sunk anymore. The analogy only works if it’s non returnable and non transferable. The ticket would have to be not used to be a true sunk cost.
Yes, pay it forward
Interesting analogy hoarding and sunk costs: that you identify with form not with the content. And the remark that succesfull people stop with something as soon as they see a better chance, instead of finishing
I would forget the train & go with my friend. Furthermore I would offer to pay their petrol money as well but secretly hope they refuse my offer.
For someone who went through many changes in life, sunk cost related guilt has really bothered me for a while but I'm glad I quit my PhD. My health was suffering at that time and I lacked insight. Yes I am not in a stable position yet. It does bother me where I stand in society with my peers but I have done self searching. Sometimes what we do with our lives is in our hands.
I studied law for three years even though that wasn't exciting me and I didn't see my future in that field. At that time, I found it difficult to stop, but also found it difficult to continue. Finally near the end of the three years of studying law, I decided to change paths. I took a few years off, then studied graphic design, and now I get to enjoy doing something I love to do, create art, and get paid for it. My extended family still doesn't understand why I didn't finish my law degree, no matter how many times I tell them I wasn't happy. Yes, I'm an INFJ. No, I don't regret switching from law to graphic design. Am I happy now? Yes!
I prefer to minimize opportunity cost than sunk cost. Possibilities are more interesting than baggages of the past. Perhaps it is the nature of intuitive types 🙂 we are bad at cost accounting. Intuitives are good at pursuit of wonders against all odds. One thing for sure, such selective forgetfulness on “sunk cost” helps this type survive bad experiences, traumas, heartaches, then move on in their lives. INFJs & INTJs will say, “I told you” in a positive tone when the future is better than the past.
My husband and I, have left the theater once and it was the movie Alexander. It was painful to watch for us so we decided to leave rather than endure through it.
Also those three years of education aren’t wasted, I would take that education to put towards a new degree.
I left a movie once or twice as well. Violence gets me ill. That has sunk costs of its own if I were to stay at that movie
this guy is a deep thinker. i like that.
As an INTJ, I spend so much time ruminating on options to prevent or minimize sunk costs. My challenge then becomes not sacrificing opportunity costs (time or other resources) by planning for perfection.
Thank you a lot for this video. I really struggle with this sunk cost fallacy and I’m very grateful that I watched this video :)
Why hasn’t this thought process been dropped into my brain until now? Or was I just not listening in the past?
I like how you started with an obvious, almost daily, sunk cost example of deciding which thing to cut our losses. I have been in so many relationships or jobs waaaay too long because of investment of time and energy, or weighing how it will make me look or affect other people, which caused me to willingly extend my prison sentence. I have wondered how other people can just suddenly change directions in their lives and find myself internally judging them for not sticking it out. So, your analysis of stepping outside of ourselves and seeing it as a gift to ourselves where we can change course, reminds me that it takes bravery and risk-taking to do this-muscles that many of us have not exercised. Instead we wear our now-dead choices like badges of honor, leaving us in emotional (and perhaps financial) poverty.
This was a great thought to mull about in my head today...thank you, Clay. 😊
I am glad I changed my mayor after two years and finished a diffrent one last month in three. I would never have thought to choose it if It weren‘t for the first one. I am also so thankful for other choices I made because of that change or more specific the impact it had on me and my character development, ... if that makes sense.
Time with a true friend is always worth more than money 💜
With movies, I'll watch to the end, holding onto hope it gets better.
Halfway through tech school, trauma hit, and I just quit. Had to pay all of it regardless. Tough lesson. Fixing that soonish, at least 💜
This is me... 2 of 3 years in my psychotherapy program. I want to be a psychotherapist but I don’t like the direction the field is taking... it’s becoming less holistic/humanistic and more clinical BUT I REFUSE TO QUIT even though I just admitted to myself over the weekend that my heart is no longer in it. There is so much resistance, there are further obstacles that are popping up but I refuse to quit my program. I’m negotiating with my physical, mental, and emotional health to just push through. It’s such a painful process. The problem is I don’t know what else to do if I quit. Thanks for the chat. I still plan on finishing and trying to use my training to do something different than the traditional path of psychotherapy. I hear you but I’m terrified of walking away. Same way with my relationships. :(
Happy Monday...
I'm not saying quitting is always the best choice. Perhaps you can use the training to get you into something that you like more.
Clay Arnall Yeah, I hear you. “Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water?” 😂 that’s what I keep telling myself... but that physical, internal feeling working against what I “want” feels immovable sometimes. Ni can only take us so far, so fast before Se slows us down. Like you said, freedom is what I need ultimately (crave) and it seems what I think I “want” keeps getting in the way of that freedom. I miss dancing, and photography, working out, and just sitting in silence in nature... all of these I’ve slowly had to let go to make space for my program. INFJs cling on until we see it through and that’s often to the exclusion of everything else. It’s not good for us.
Hey! That's a great field...you can do alot with a psych degree. It's used in every field and will give you an edge on being hired almost any field. So not such a bad problem to have.
@@grumpyschnauzer Yes, I quit nothing unless it's classified as a misery factor of 8 or more. The older I get the more okay I get with quitting things because I want all my time spent on anything I do to be fulfilling
Cool ideas Clay . Great food for thought. Thank you. Sending Love your way from another B.C. INFJ.
Video questions is an awesome idea! Also, thank you for bringing another topic that close to my heart.
Ahh this is a great topic! Don't have questions to record, just too many thoughts and tangents. Here are a few.
-The problem with sunk costs is that it only works to leave something when it's very clear it is not the right choice. Banking on something else that appears good may not always be the right choice. Take it from an ENFP and the grass is always greener phenomenon. I've concluded that personally if I have to do something for a living I will never love it. Tolerating it is important. So is loving parts of it. Relationships are a whole new level too complex to comment on.
-I think it's ego that is the issue and not self confidence. However, I agree with you in that it's not always optimal to be too confident...for many other reasons.
-Also there's these two opposing theories. "To succeed means to persevere"/"where there's a will there's a way," versus "don't cling to a mistake just because you've spent a lot of time making it." Both I think are true; It's up to us to pick the right one in the right moment. Which is why I think the king of all philosophies is bringing it back to the Greeks. Παν μέτρον άριστον. Everything in moderation.
So put the ticket in a scrapbook with a little story about it, and go with the friend. Paint example: always repaint in the colour you like. Don't bother trying to live in a room or house that's a colour you don't like. That's bad energy. Movie: get up and walk out.
Hi! Interesting topic. I always have tried to turn decisions into research projects. First, I include misery factor....If finishing the degree is going to make me miserable, I place a number from 1 to 10 on how miserable it will make me. I research what are my options and go forth with my decision. Marriage, same thing. Not worth the misery...if its like an 8 on the misery scale and you have done all the research to move where your quality of life will be a misery factor of 0 or 1, then that increases the value of the choice and decreases the value of the sunk cost. I also changed my degree from Acctg to Finance....I had decided that Accounting would give me a misery factor of 10 so if I was miserable, then my quality of life would have been poor and that actually has sunk costs too!. So, in the end, make the change and lead a healthy happy life.... Now , the stock, choice is the same....I research the market and decide the best option. That comes with maturity....I fell in love with a Future option once and lost 200 dollars. That taught me not to fall in love with stocks or bonds. That decision has to be research based. There is no other way to look at that. What do you think?
I love this video! No question, I will sink costs in a good cause any day, however in relationships I have a limit on sunk costs and it varies per person but once the life line is depleted I am very willing to let go most of the time, I am working on making it 100% of the time.
for me the 'sunk cost' has not really ever been about things or $. But the relationship aspect has been problematic. It's the same for the 'door slam' -- I have done it - but only AFTER having tried and tried repeatedly to resolve the issues - but that is very difficult to do when the other is unwilling to look at themselves or the relationship and acknowledge and deal with the issues. By the time the 'door slam' comes I have NO more energy to invest in that relationship (and yes, I can then become quite 'cold') it is protective.
Thank you for this video Clay, you are always doing such insightful videos. I finally feel a bit better about leaving the second part of my master's. It's even tougher for perfectionists to leave anything because it feels like triple the failure! Cheers.
This was extremely helpful Clay, thank you!🙏🏼😊🙏🏼 I really love the concept of viewing past time, investments, and commitments as GIFTS from your past self. That itself is a game changer!! I'm the same way and have a hard time admitting something wasn't as expected, or I made a wrong decision for myself at the time etc... instead if viewing it as a gift, even if it the gift of learning 'hey, this isn't for you, its okay to switch gears'. The advice you gave on relationships was awesome too, stepping back would you be choosing the same relationship again? I left my marriage to another Infj, my best friend, for an enfp ...and it ended up being extremely toxic and very abusive. ALL those sunk costs, relocated from Sask. to Texas, sold house, business, all of my material possessions only to feel so trapped and alone in this new country. The sunk costs built up for five years and I continued to stay despite it the abuse. Finally I left, yet sometimes I'll ask myself, should I of tried harder? was that the right choice to make? Your 'would you choose this relationship again?' question cleared that all up, NO, not in a million years, thank you, this provided so much mental freedom from the hamster wheel of regret. 🙏🏼
When I think of the decisions I have made under the influence of this fallacy! Ouch! I had never been aware of this before watching your video. So for that I am grateful! Happy Thanksgiving!
Thanks for another great video man!
Isn’t it interesting how most all these scenarios revolve around a monetary cost (among others? What would our society look like... what would people do (i.e. their passions) were money not a factor in decision-making?
I outline a number of other types of sunk costs later in the video. I think the biggest sunk cost is time and effort.
Clay Arnall Agreed. I also feel that since our current society uses money as a reflection of one’s value/specificity (i.e. amount per hour) and notion of time invested (i.e. total amount earned), it is roughly equivalent to say that money earned represents time invested (in most cases). I feel people would be a lot more willing to pursue passions were they not beholden to money investments, as with the case of deciding a college major as you mentioned in the video.
Side note - I’m interested in podcasts! I would love to follow your thoughts on there as well. Thanks Clay!
@@ClayArnall yes time and effort is the hardest one to walk away from and i get stuck in analytical paralysis. Because one of the things i highly value is time. If i give you my time that is the most precious thing i can give. I would not want to waste yours or mine.
Thank you, seriously so much.
The degree -- that's tricky. Getting the degree -- not wanting to work in that field, is there a way to write a book about it? Journal the last year? Wow, never thought about that one.
Yes, very crucial with my life. I'm alot older. In college had to take losses on a few classes because of just being not comfortable. I wish I had done that with relationships earlier than I did.
So I'm much better at non relationship decisions.
lol i was going to ask you what do you think about making your videos as podcast too and found my answer at the end, thank you for talking about this topic!
Yay, I don’t have this problem!
Does this message apply to high school students who are thinking about dropping out?
Yes, I have left. On TV, if I'm seeing a movie and it's not good, I don't wait for it to get good. If it's not good, it won't get better.
I do was in a situation were i realized i didnt like what i was studying but i already spended like 3 years on that, like you said i thought about my parents and i also thought that it would be a waste to just leave at that point, so i finished that degree, i even make a good effort and finish that last year with very good grades, then i do worked on that field while studying the other one , i hated those jobs but i could pay the other degree with that. but yeah i do have to admit that it took a lot of time to finished and find a work (specially fing a job) and then make the decision to work and study, here i am 27 year old me almost finishing that new degree, but it could be a maybe 24 year old me finishing the right degree if i just took the other path
🌬💨 🌟" GREAT PRESENTATION "👉🏽🥸 CLAY.👏🏾 🇺🇸💱🇨🇦 " NAMSTAE "🙏🏾
Sunk costs....Story of my life....Personally I always kiss those costs goodbye in favor of the best overall outcome....and I have kissed a L O T of money and time goodbye in my life. To me, it's "just money and time"...which is one type of "currency", sure....but there is also "quality" on the other side of the equation. As long as we're cognizant of the actual "tradeoff" and still feel the better option is to "let those costs sink!"...then that's 100% fine in my book.
I recently painted my garage door (6? times...I stopped counting after a while) until I got the color right. Do I "enjoy" all of this painting? No. But it would bother me more for a longer period of time if, every time I pulled into my driveway I was annoyed by the color of my garage door. Yes, paint can get expensive...especially if you're buying it one quart at a time...and my own "time"...painting and re-painting...was also a factor, but for me it wasn't even a question. It had to be done and I consider any "waste" along the way "par for the course" and sometimes even a lesson in how to avoid "the long and expensive path" next time.
Allowing these costs to prevent us from what choices would otherwise be "obvious" is known as "loss aversion bias". To me, the story of the train ticket would be a perfect one to illustrate this....that is, "if" the person decided they had to take the train because they already paid for the ticket. That would just be goofy. I know someone who makes decisions like these on a pretty regular basis (I think they've just been overly conditioned to value money over everything else and are not yet aware of it), but I like this person so I just keep my mouth shut for the most part...or, if it's really getting out of hand I might crack a little friendly joke about it or "drop a line" about loss aversion bias, in the hope that they might possibly become a little more conscious of the pattern without risking offending them.
oh...and I would and HAVE totally decided 15 minutes into a movie....NOT WORTH MY TIME!....shut it off and did something else. Is that unusual? I think it might be, but I'm not sure.
Good thought exercises.
I've been in training to become an aviation mechanic and I'm finding out i have no interest working in this aviation field. I enjoy mechanical work for example cars, Being a relatively quiet person Im finding the aviation field is not a place for me where your expected to have excellent interpersonal, Oral and written skills which I struggle with. I'm two years in but I'm only interested in the money its self only.
I think developing fi is the solution to the sunk cost fallacy.
Wow. I guess it all depends on what it is. Not sure if this is an infj thing but I know I'd rather just finish than waste more and being wasteful but that is why I really really make sure I know what I want and if I change my mind oh well, too bad so sad.....
I give it to someone who can make use of the ticket :D
a great idea, but if you could do that, it is no longer a sunk cost :)
I see this fruitless way of thinking, in people’s relationships. “But we’ve been together for x amount of years”... with an investment more precious than money, time. I have always felt, that when you become clear about something,... reevaluate, and make the next best choice. Not admitting to the new perspective seems very Ego based, to me. I don’t mind being wrong, as long as I correct when I realize it. Worth something.... isn’t value a very subjective idea?
What's your ancestry? Just curious :)
I would used the train ticket. But if my friend is a worth it, I would go with my friend (because even then, the friend itself is a “cost”) . Because not all friends are created equal.