You're not a fraud and what you say is real for you and helpful to all your viewers. Jung knew that personality types were not a scientific reality but still saw how helpful they were to provide a language so that we can understand each other better. Many INFJs struggle with what you say: feeling like outsiders in a world where everyone else fits in but you. Jungs theory teaches us that that is not true, and that everyone is struggling with inner feelings of doubt and alienation, and that if we try to understand each other, we will connect better, and learn and grow together. :)
I agree with Antonia Dodge who said: It's a map, it's not a territory. It doesn't close anybody to a box. It just decribes patterns. I can see it works. I don't care so much about what authorities say, when something make me sense. And I also know psychologists that use MBTI. MBTI helps me to respond so many questions: "why", to understand myself much better and to understand people. To understand, why they don't understand me... I also find MBTI as a really useful tool for parents to understand better their children. I can see many extraverted parents pushing their introverted kids into socialising... So many misunderstood thinker girls and feeler boys... and so on and so on. But I think INFJs are the most prone type to get fascinated by MBTI, which make me sense when I look to our cognitive functions.
As an INFJ myself, i feel like my behaviour and the way i opt to think is changing over time, as i grow up. The basics are always there especially Ni but other than that i've "switched" a lot within, that's what gets me to start questioning MBTI most of the time. But then again those changes probably are the consequences of trying to improve on a daily basis, atleast that's how i choose to view it; i feel like that's why a scientifical evidence is a huge welcome (perfectionists always want things to be perfect lol). But if MBTI keeps on working, as you said, we keep benefitting from it, and maybe that's the whole point of it.
I like to call changing my opinions, observations and actions "microadjusting," Like I need to tweak how I view things and how I react after learning about an undesirable outcome I want to avoid.
Yes! Thank you for this as I have been mulling over how solid these things are and how confident I can be in them to use them in a Life Coaching business. Ultimately though I think about MBTI in exactly the same way you describe, especially in that now that I know about Cognitive Functions I can't "unsee" them. Also, even in the area of "real" Science, like Chemistry, Physics, or Biology, it is still a work in progress. We don't discount all of that just because the base knowledge keeps morphing. The bottom line is that MBTI has been extremely useful for many people and continues to be so, especially looking at the CFs. What bothers me is when people get so hung up on the specific attributes of the archetypal versions of the types that they miss what they really are underneath. ("An INFJ would NEVER...") The truth seems to be that we change how we "look" as our types as we grow and develop in life. But, we still have the same "bones" in the form of our CFs.
"A way to let people off the hook" Yes I would completely agree. I actually think that Dario Nardi's work seems to be unveiling connections between personality type and brain area hot spots and cold spots, which is very interesting.
I have been familiar with MBTI for over 10 years. I have taken the test multiple times over that span of time and got a different personality type almost every time. This was a common occurrence with any personality test. On top of that, none of the results ever ever felt like they were very accurate. They might have had a few characteristics that fit, but overall it just felt very broad and vague in a way that a psychic reading or a medium acting like they’re talking to your dead relatives would be. For this reason, I always felt like it was all bullshit. Fast forward to today… I’ve been in therapy now for a few months, and 2 weeks ago, my therapist said that she thought I “felt things first”. She said she understood that I considered myself a very logical person, and agreed that I do think about things deeply, but she was fairly confident that I first experienced feelings. She then asked if I knew what MBTI was. I explained my thoughts of it being pretty useless and like it never fit me, but I said I felt like I’d get a different result now because therapy has helped me become more familiar with myself. The next day I took the test again, and because therapy has helped me to understand that I shouldn’t be ashamed for who I am, I was finally able to answer the test questions honestly instead of answering the question how I wish it was, or how I wanted people to see me. This time I got INFJ. I have never felt so seen in my entire life. Every single piece of the description felt like it was about me specifically. Not only that, but based on how specific it was, I was even able to accurately guess that my therapist is an INFJ as well. I’ve never felt like someone understood me like she does, and she’s also commented on how safe and comfortable she feels with me as well. All of this has been incredibly insightful and a HUGE help for me. Finally understanding why I am the way that I am, and knowing there are other people like me at the age of 32 is a great thing. That’s all the proof that I need. It might not be scientific, but it is a way of accurately describing how I function and why I function the way I do. Not sure what more you could need. Keep up the great work. Your channel is awesome.
It's really funny that you mention how obvious certain types are. I relate to that a lot, in fact, I (infj) have become scarily accurate at typing people. Once you know how it works, and combine this with a generally good ability to read people, you can type people to an almost faultless degree
@@NJ-wb1cz by interacting with people? I get what you are going for. "You can't judge a book by it's cover". But it's not like they're probably going for people and tell them "you're this, you're that!" and offend them. At least I don't. But I have a good intuition if someone is a good fit on my circle or not. The aha moment just happen naturally but at least I've already distanced myself from that person. Again "distanced" not completely avoid them as sometimes these people are also necessary for your survival.
@@Vizible21 no, I mean literally how do you verify your typing and separate it from your personal bias. Seeing that someone is "obviously" some type isn't too much different from people pigeonholing and honestly seeing any groups as some types
@@AnyaAnnika67 sure, it's also obvious that typology isn't a science, it's a subjective mindset on how to think about people. Types don't actually exist, types reflect our own way of thinking about people. So someone can totally type you as INFJ in their mindset and it may be helpful to them, and you may type yourself as an ISTJ in your mindset and it will be helpful to you. Those subjective systems have no obligation to be compatible between each other, just like some people may judge someone as an asshole and other people may like them
The MBTI is a way to label people. Humans like labels. No, it’s not perfect, like you said. But we feel like we can “control” and understand things better when there is a label on things. Just like getting a diagnosis, even if it doesn’t change the treatment. It helps us understand what is going on with our body.
Thank you for answering my question! 😊 For a long time I felt ashamed that I liked the MBTI theory so much, due to its little scientific support, but as you say, it doesn’t have to be a true science (psychology often is not) it can be a tool that helps us to accept and understand others. As always, you have a brilliant way of ordering the topic of conversation and expressing it accurately and clearly! thanks for the insightful content.
Hi Clay. You have brought me a wealth of education about being an INFJ. So you keep doing what you are doing. 22 years ago when I got sober, I began to see things, detect things, and had abilities I could not explain the how and why about, all I could say was what I was experiencing. When I left the fellowship after 20 years and did an MBTI and came out as an INFJ, it made perfect sense. I could finally understand things that began well before I got sober, early on in life. I don't know enough of the other 15 types to "Type" the many people I have come across over 20 years, but I can tell you what I experienced, and how others made me feel, treated me, then dumped me. I've been able to pick apart my life in my journaling over these past months of exploration. I even went back to MBTI a few months later and retook the test again, and AGAIN came back as an INFJ. This whole journey has opened my eyes to an entire new facet of myself. And Everything I have heard you say, took root and has helped me immensely, so thank you from Montreal.
Funny I went through the exact same journey of hyper fixation then disbelief then a general a general understanding that there’s something there and it is useful to me personally. Thanks for the video
Since learning about MBTI I am much more patient with people and allow them to be who they are. Some personalities don’t upset me like they used to. I believe that it would help society if everyone learned about the differences of each other and recognized that it doesn’t have anything to do with them personally.
For me, I used to try to peg people in one of 16 types. I found that VERY difficult. I had to step back and see them as one of four, but (of course) also completely unique. MBTI has been helpful, as well as other systems. Personality theory helps me see how people have a TENDENCY to act such and so way, but they don’t have to.
I have no doubt that Katharine Briggs & her daughter Isabel Myers based this on science. It’s consistently accurate! And Clay, many times you describe something about yourself (hyperfocus on topics you’ve become curius about) that shock me how similar we are & I’ve tested countless times and have always come up INFJ. MBTI is not fluky!
Thanks Clay, I appreciate your comments. I'm an 83 year old INFJ man. If you want to find out why people are different you have to look no farther than ontological mathematics; everyone's mathematical identity is configured differently. Ontic math has two aspects: form and content: syntax and semantics. It's an objective language which we interpret subjectively. Our collective subjective experiences determine our shared phenomenal reality.
Hello Clark your comment really interests me thank you. I've always been terrible with maths, where I have felt blocked in a way which has bothered me. Would you be able to explain what your comment means in a way that someone with a poor understanding of maths?
As someone who is also an INFJ... into astrology and always on the pursuit of understanding I will say, astrology isn't so much someone personality but how this person's perspective is, how they cope with things etc etc. more than anything I see how these things as well as childhood upbringing etc all tie in together, mbti including. For example, your two kids who are very different with the same parents have completely different astrology meaning they cope differently with the same circumstances which in turn might show and tell us what mbti they might be. (I'm guessing they're different mbti) that's just my take. I could truly go on and on trying to explain this.
I am also and INFJ, though can sometimes test INTJ (my enneagram is 5w4, 2w1, 9w1, which i guess is the type most likely to mistype as INTJ). also LEVF (attitudinal psyche type). i look at the functions as more like the balance of a radio or an EQ that brings about a specific mix. we all use all the functions, but prefer these over those. the preferred functions develops the type. the descriptions function as behavioral tendencies, but not absolutes. It's a mistake to think that something that is supposed to establish a type is meant to explain your entire personality. it only serves to explain how we process information and make decisions. some critics often rely on strawman arguments, like "it's not consistent. i get different results". the test isn't the problem. if someone took the same 16 personalities test 10 times and gets different results, it's the answers causing the inconsistency, not the test. MBTI kind of makes you look at yourself honestly. it's that level of knowing yourself that helps determine your actual type. There is a book called Neuroscience of Personality by Dario Nardi which i guess is the first science done on it. the way i understand MBTI now is that it was meant to explain and categorize data, not a method of STUDYING personality. in this sense, it establishes a sort of beginning. what we do with it from there is kind of up to us. The reason I started using it is because most of what i do online is impartial analysis and discussion of topics, and passing on information. very little of myself is actually online. so i decided to use MBTI (and enneagram) as a kind of indirect way of talking about myself.
Is art a science? Is opinion science? So many other things are not science simply because they can't be quantified in numbers. But they all have value. Science is not the only thing of value, whatever we want to put in the category of science. What about morals? Do they have value? "it's not science" is becoming a pathetic excuse. btw. do you think you know your kids' types ? Is it telling early on?
Luna you have a beautiful voice 🙂 there is a gentle quality where I could listen to you talking for hours. For what it's worth, I have found myself in a similar situation to you when I discovered I was an INFJ. It was like unlocking a door where I was able to recognize patterns and make sense of the way I am and how I see/ feel/ experience life. It offered an explanation about lots of things that I didn't understand. Since then I have done a lot of research myself, where there were too many similarities between a number of people who are also INFJ. There may be a lack of rigorous academic research about the validity or reliability of the mbti system, but I see it as a tool that can help guide people with a greater understanding of themselves and their ways of experiencing life. I'd say if anyone does the test and relates to whatever their personality type is, they can take some value from it as a tool for working with preferences, perception and finding the best ways to optimise their strengths and be able to understand limitations. If it's helpful to an individual and improves their experience of life, I don't think it really matters whether it's taken seriously from a scientific perspective. What matters is whether it's of benefit or not. This may be an aspect of me being an INFJ but I don't really care what other people think about something that is a benefit to me. I'm not causing any harm, I'm just doing inner work to grow and have a better understanding of myself and my environment so I can be a better person 😊
Speaking of drastically different personalities, my brother and I couldn't be much more different from each other. We're about 13 months apart. I think my earliest memory of the two of us together was when he was pulling the legs off of a spider, and I was horrified (without knowing the word "horrified"). We are different in so many ways! 😂😂😂😅
I heard from many psychologists that MBTI is too general for science. The suggested model is Big-5, which rates personality traits (extroversion, agreeableness, ...) in percentage to the other test results (simi8lar to IQ tests). That's the reason why MBTI is not good for science, because it's too inaccurate. But no psychologist did tell me that MBTI is not applicable or is just false. It's just not applicable for science, because it's too broad. I think both models are very important. While MBTI looks at our cognition (cognitive functions), Big-5 looks at your character traits. //Edit: You said that nothing in psychology is scientific. If I'm not wrong, in psychology the way to proof something scientifically is statistics. And that's the reason why it's not applicable for science, because it works with absolute values and not statistical/relative values (like the IQ test). That's because to get to know people you will need test groups, a group of people. Than you do your tests and compare the answers to the rest of the group. And then they can do statements like "8% of the group scored 112 points in agreeableness.".
I feel when I know someone's personality type, which doesn't take long to figure out these days, it gives me so much understanding of them and I"m able to give them so much leeway because I know why they do what they do. People operate in their dominant function almost solely if they haven't grown or developed.
I find it to be very legit. The whole process of figuring out my type helped me see and understand myself on a level I didn’t reach before and then my growth journey came from it. And I might be human but I see how the functions affect me, how I freak out and jump to unrealistic visions, how I’m not entirely in touch and aware of myself and my emotions, things like that. It’s a tool to figure yourself out and not be too hard on yourself and others when they’re doing what their brain is wired to do.
I just wanted to tell you that I research things like you. I am really into rheumatology right now (I am pre-medical). I feel like I jump from medical topic to topic and research about it until I either get bored bc I understand it (which is kind of impossible with medicine bc there is SO much) or I get overwhelmed bc there is so much (usually what happens with medicine lol). Thanks for making me feel less alone about researching so hard haha
When in doubt as to the voracity of Jung's theories, read his book, from cover to cover, Psychological Types. Jung went to great pains to be as point-counter-point on his own ideas, researching all the know personality typing up to his time. It will be more insightful than just MBTI, and help you understand the introverted intuitive in Jung's own words. Happy Holidays!
I just finished taking the course psychology of personality and we took 57 different personality questionnaires. The big five is considered the most scientific personality test because it is the most valid and reliable. This means that it measures what it's supposed to measure and you get the same results consistently. The mbti is not as reliable as the big five because the mbti puts traits in categories rather than measuring traits on a continuum. If you are 51% extroverted you are put into the extrovert category and this gives a very different personality description, ENFJs are very different than INFJs. If you are around 50% in your extraversion trait and test over and over with the MBTI you could be put in a different category each time. I find MBTI works best with people who have traits that are clearly in one category or another. With the big five you can measure slightly differently on the scale, but it's not going to make a big difference in the outcome of the test like it does with MBTI. After taking the course I still find value in the MBTI. If you get good at identifying MBTI traits in others I find it useful for getting a quick snapshot of a person when you first meet them.
@@NJ-wb1cz that's interesting. Would you mind telling me a little more because the official MBTI is not free and the website doesn't give a detailed description of how the test is scored. How does the MBTI handle people in the middle of the spectrum on a trait? As far as I am aware there are 2 categories for each trait and no in between. For example, a person is either introverted or extraverted, is there some kind of ambivert clause or category?
@@TheNutCollector some people on reddit posted their results but I couldn't quickly find them now. Afaik it was more or less what 16personalities does in their results, they still give you a type and descriptions of dichotomies, but the bars provide qualifiers. I'm not sure if they personalise your type description itself from your bars or not
@@TheNutCollector but in any case, all of that is commercialized typology that's very different from actually useful personal typology, with cognitive functions and an endless search for a type that never feels quite true, that helps the person essentially find themselves. And the type they end up with or don't end up with is irrelevant, every typology in that sense is just one of many mindset how to think about people, not some inherent property of a person
Great Videos 👏 Maby you can make a Video about MBTI + numerology + astrology + human desgin chart ? I think this would help others because I personally as INFJ can now see me much clearer through these tools combined together.
I think INFJs are very good at pattern recognition. Especially when it comes to human behavior. With MBTI, this rough understanding of certain personality types is validated over and over again, because the INFJ can clearly see patterns in how certain types behave. I think most people don’t have this ability. They don’t see these patterns of behavior so clearly.
I am just a beginner with this stuff and I feel it’s really helping me understand myself and those around me and how relationships can function or not function because of it. I find it’s value. Biology only had a central tenet when Darwin came along until the. It was the same as psychology is at today.
The best way to think of MBTI is that it attempts to identify an individuals thinking preferences. Are you a chaotic intuative like an ENTP? Are you internal and and creative like an INFJ? It's more like putting fruit together than describing the fruit. I also get having a better capacity for patience when you have a way to put words to people's behavior.
Having some moments of hyperfixation. I recognize the feeling. Nicely expressed. I am thankful that you have these video's. By the way I noticed many similar charasteristics between INFJ type and gifted people. What are your thoughts about that?
Love you, Clay! I'd love to get your take on enneagram types! Like what's your core, your archetype, how do you find this model in comparison to MBTI, etc. :) Also looking fine with that green top on and new hairdo, hehe.
My stance is similar. Finding out I was an INFJ answered a lot of questions I was trying to solve on my own, so I mainly use it as a tool to understand myself and to place myself within the world. I don't really care what anyone's opinion of it or what the science behind it is if I'm able to benefit from it in that way. But having said that, I do think it has a negative reputation given how it's viewed as being one in the same with astrology or how fixated people get on it to the point that it's obnoxious so I get why people are on the more critical end of things.
Hi Clay. I am Seema from India. I am an INFJ myself. I am following to this MBTI from last few years. And it has been a life changing experience for me. This is my first msg on Social media. I just want to give suggestion based on my experience that if You can deeply research Vedic Astrology it can give wonderful worldview how things and people works. I learnt about MBTI first and then Vedic Astrology. The learning from Astrology was profound. There are some people which are doing quite good research in this and which is as applicable on us as MBTI, but over than it. Nakshatra System of Vedic Astrology is determining our lives at very minute level. There are some good channel on this topic like, Dr. Arjun Pai Astrology, Lunar Astro, KRS channel etc. which you can try. I found that Astrology give the answers to the roots of the lives of a person while through MBTI we can see the outer or physical manifestation of these roots. I hope you have great learning experience. Lastly, thanks for your efforts and sharing your views which are quite interesting and useful for us INFJ.
I think it's misleading tp call these personality types. It's more like your orientation to the world. Anyway, people definitely are introverted, extroverted or ambiverted. You definitely can be intuitive (big picture type) or a sensory type (focusing on details). We see how some people lead with intellect or feelings. The judgement vs perception axis is still vague for me. I think it's more accurate to acknowledge that a lot of people may be halfway between two functions (most people are ambiverts and not extroverted or introverted). It's uncanny how INFJ fits me (I may be split between F & T though). These functions do describe people. Maybe clinical psychologists have a problem with the MBTI because they are focused on mental illness, and this typology doesn't fit into their DSM. After all, they create their own categories and give them names based on criteria they select to diagnose mental illnesses.
I agree with you on that I also do see its value. But, I just wanted to say that this is the 2nd time that I also listened to the phrase "mbti is like astrology but for nerds" and I just wanted to say that I find that people that say that usually don't have any understanding of astrology. I personally know a little bit more about astrology than MBTI ( regarding MBTI I just read gifts differing and I only know about my type and 2 others. Meaning I don't know that much about MBTI yet) and is actually also deeper. Everything is divided, meaning like how you express yourself depends on the different areas of your life (houses in astrology), and also the way you think (mercury), or what you value (venus), or how you go after things (mars) is not fixed, because is NOT only about the sun sign, but it involves much more than that. Is about the whole chart, and Not only the sun. And then all the aspects between planets also affect your personality. So, my point is , people tend to think about the sun sign, when astrology is about the whole chart, and is not something that is fixed, and also differs a lot depending on the interpretation. So, I think is also very valuable as a tool of understanding yourself. But, is a DIFFERENT tool from mbti. fun fact, I actually also do wonder a lot about the charts of INFJ's (or any other type for that matter) because I tend to suspect that there could be a certain kind of correlation between planet's placements, or signs in their houses and aspects, and mbti personality types. But I don't know if somebody will actually do that type of research hehehe ;)
Regardless of “real” or not,…. Finding similarities in human behaviors, is just a human way to organize… the differences in humans. I see no down side. If it helps us understand each other, what’s the harm? Aren’t there absolutely differences in people that we all would like to better understand? Or is it just,… me?.. I find the MB very useful.
i have a question . So how can we connect personality traits to their types as in like being funny,optimistic,bright or playful ... what do these types say about these traits and is there a connection at all? Im trying to ask how can someone with the same MBTI act so different ?
Question: If you can figure out your kid's MBTI, and know what kinds of upbringings/trauma assist in shaping that MBTI result, can you adjust your parenting and change their personality? At what age do you think a personality would typically be set?
'I hate manipulation.' Calm your bits, Clay! ;) Manipulation is a means of getting a person (or something inanimate) to do something they wouldn't do if not for that means. It can be for good or bad. You can warn a person, that would be observable manipulation. You can prevent a child from drowning in the water. That's manipulation too. I even condone lying if it means less harm (like not telling a person you think their baby looks like a molten ET). If you put on make up, you manipulate your appearance. Going on vacation to catch more sunlight? You're manipulating your environment. In science, one manipulates variables to figure out cause and effect. Manipulation is ubiquitous and is something neutral. This is all something different than abuse and gaslighting etc. These are negative outlets of the same. Stop shaming manipulation. We all do it, for better or worse.
“Manipulating variables” is not what I’m referring to here. I’m referring to people, who instead of acting in direct, honest ways to get their needs or wants met, they revert to backhanded, covert or misleading means to get those needs met. They often use deception, dishonesty and selfish techniques instead of direct communication.
The CIA uses MBTI to assess prospective assets , and during the hiring process. Search for Andrew Bustamante .. former field officer who discussed this on the Lex Friedman podcast.
Fraudster My Boy! Just kidding. I am an INFJ myself, I just learned of my personality during a college course last year and found it useful, and I believe his studies to be true for my type, I haven’t took the time to look at the other types. I also have a degree in science in occupational therapy and soon bachelors in psychology
Science is not limited to facts. Key to science are Theories and Hypotheses. You use them as long as they work. You constantly test them and try to improve them. You get more data. It isn't if it is absolute truth, but is this a working system that can later be improved. Science is about improving things and better knowing things, not something that is supposed to be stagnant and permanent. Even with horoscopes (which I agree are not based on as much), I don't just peg someone by their birthday, but I find it useful as a construct to decide if they are like that or not so much. Once I analyze in which ways they fit the stereotype then I have more information. Systems do not have to be perfect in order to be useful. Is it fake news? Only if you don't analyze it. Most beliefs aren't totally false or totally true. (I do have to admit that some seem so untrue that I don't bother with them.) MBTI brings value to many. That is the bottom line. Thanks for your video.
You're not a fraud and what you say is real for you and helpful to all your viewers. Jung knew that personality types were not a scientific reality but still saw how helpful they were to provide a language so that we can understand each other better. Many INFJs struggle with what you say: feeling like outsiders in a world where everyone else fits in but you. Jungs theory teaches us that that is not true, and that everyone is struggling with inner feelings of doubt and alienation, and that if we try to understand each other, we will connect better, and learn and grow together. :)
I agree with Antonia Dodge who said: It's a map, it's not a territory. It doesn't close anybody to a box. It just decribes patterns.
I can see it works. I don't care so much about what authorities say, when something make me sense. And I also know psychologists that use MBTI.
MBTI helps me to respond so many questions: "why", to understand myself much better and to understand people. To understand, why they don't understand me...
I also find MBTI as a really useful tool for parents to understand better their children. I can see many extraverted parents pushing their introverted kids into socialising... So many misunderstood thinker girls and feeler boys... and so on and so on.
But I think INFJs are the most prone type to get fascinated by MBTI, which make me sense when I look to our cognitive functions.
As an INFJ myself, i feel like my behaviour and the way i opt to think is changing over time, as i grow up. The basics are always there especially Ni but other than that i've "switched" a lot within, that's what gets me to start questioning MBTI most of the time. But then again those changes probably are the consequences of trying to improve on a daily basis, atleast that's how i choose to view it; i feel like that's why a scientifical evidence is a huge welcome (perfectionists always want things to be perfect lol). But if MBTI keeps on working, as you said, we keep benefitting from it, and maybe that's the whole point of it.
I like to call changing my opinions, observations and actions "microadjusting," Like I need to tweak how I view things and how I react after learning about an undesirable outcome I want to avoid.
Yes! Thank you for this as I have been mulling over how solid these things are and how confident I can be in them to use them in a Life Coaching business. Ultimately though I think about MBTI in exactly the same way you describe, especially in that now that I know about Cognitive Functions I can't "unsee" them. Also, even in the area of "real" Science, like Chemistry, Physics, or Biology, it is still a work in progress. We don't discount all of that just because the base knowledge keeps morphing. The bottom line is that MBTI has been extremely useful for many people and continues to be so, especially looking at the CFs. What bothers me is when people get so hung up on the specific attributes of the archetypal versions of the types that they miss what they really are underneath. ("An INFJ would NEVER...") The truth seems to be that we change how we "look" as our types as we grow and develop in life. But, we still have the same "bones" in the form of our CFs.
"A way to let people off the hook" Yes I would completely agree. I actually think that Dario Nardi's work seems to be unveiling connections between personality type and brain area hot spots and cold spots, which is very interesting.
I have been familiar with MBTI for over 10 years. I have taken the test multiple times over that span of time and got a different personality type almost every time. This was a common occurrence with any personality test. On top of that, none of the results ever ever felt like they were very accurate. They might have had a few characteristics that fit, but overall it just felt very broad and vague in a way that a psychic reading or a medium acting like they’re talking to your dead relatives would be. For this reason, I always felt like it was all bullshit. Fast forward to today… I’ve been in therapy now for a few months, and 2 weeks ago, my therapist said that she thought I “felt things first”. She said she understood that I considered myself a very logical person, and agreed that I do think about things deeply, but she was fairly confident that I first experienced feelings. She then asked if I knew what MBTI was. I explained my thoughts of it being pretty useless and like it never fit me, but I said I felt like I’d get a different result now because therapy has helped me become more familiar with myself. The next day I took the test again, and because therapy has helped me to understand that I shouldn’t be ashamed for who I am, I was finally able to answer the test questions honestly instead of answering the question how I wish it was, or how I wanted people to see me. This time I got INFJ. I have never felt so seen in my entire life. Every single piece of the description felt like it was about me specifically. Not only that, but based on how specific it was, I was even able to accurately guess that my therapist is an INFJ as well. I’ve never felt like someone understood me like she does, and she’s also commented on how safe and comfortable she feels with me as well. All of this has been incredibly insightful and a HUGE help for me. Finally understanding why I am the way that I am, and knowing there are other people like me at the age of 32 is a great thing. That’s all the proof that I need. It might not be scientific, but it is a way of accurately describing how I function and why I function the way I do. Not sure what more you could need. Keep up the great work. Your channel is awesome.
What is science but observing repeatable patterns.
Making sure that your observations are correct. MBTI fails here
It's really funny that you mention how obvious certain types are. I relate to that a lot, in fact, I (infj) have become scarily accurate at typing people. Once you know how it works, and combine this with a generally good ability to read people, you can type people to an almost faultless degree
How do you verify your typing though?
@@NJ-wb1cz by interacting with people? I get what you are going for.
"You can't judge a book by it's cover".
But it's not like they're probably going for people and tell them "you're this, you're that!" and offend them. At least I don't. But I have a good intuition if someone is a good fit on my circle or not. The aha moment just happen naturally but at least I've already distanced myself from that person. Again "distanced" not completely avoid them as sometimes these people are also necessary for your survival.
@@Vizible21 no, I mean literally how do you verify your typing and separate it from your personal bias. Seeing that someone is "obviously" some type isn't too much different from people pigeonholing and honestly seeing any groups as some types
@@AnyaAnnika67 sure, it's also obvious that typology isn't a science, it's a subjective mindset on how to think about people. Types don't actually exist, types reflect our own way of thinking about people. So someone can totally type you as INFJ in their mindset and it may be helpful to them, and you may type yourself as an ISTJ in your mindset and it will be helpful to you. Those subjective systems have no obligation to be compatible between each other, just like some people may judge someone as an asshole and other people may like them
The MBTI is a way to label people. Humans like labels. No, it’s not perfect, like you said. But we feel like we can “control” and understand things better when there is a label on things. Just like getting a diagnosis, even if it doesn’t change the treatment. It helps us understand what is going on with our body.
Thank you for answering my question! 😊
For a long time I felt ashamed that I liked the MBTI theory so much, due to its little scientific support, but as you say, it doesn’t have to be a true science (psychology often is not) it can be a tool that helps us to accept and understand others.
As always, you have a brilliant way of ordering the topic of conversation and expressing it accurately and clearly! thanks for the insightful content.
Hi Clay. You have brought me a wealth of education about being an INFJ. So you keep doing what you are doing. 22 years ago when I got sober, I began to see things, detect things, and had abilities I could not explain the how and why about, all I could say was what I was experiencing. When I left the fellowship after 20 years and did an MBTI and came out as an INFJ, it made perfect sense. I could finally understand things that began well before I got sober, early on in life. I don't know enough of the other 15 types to "Type" the many people I have come across over 20 years, but I can tell you what I experienced, and how others made me feel, treated me, then dumped me. I've been able to pick apart my life in my journaling over these past months of exploration. I even went back to MBTI a few months later and retook the test again, and AGAIN came back as an INFJ. This whole journey has opened my eyes to an entire new facet of myself. And Everything I have heard you say, took root and has helped me immensely, so thank you from Montreal.
Funny I went through the exact same journey of hyper fixation then disbelief then a general a general understanding that there’s something there and it is useful to me personally.
Thanks for the video
Since learning about MBTI I am much more patient with people and allow them to be who they are. Some personalities don’t upset me like they used to. I believe that it would help society if everyone learned about the differences of each other and recognized that it doesn’t have anything to do with them personally.
For me, I used to try to peg people in one of 16 types. I found that VERY difficult. I had to step back and see them as one of four, but (of course) also completely unique. MBTI has been helpful, as well as other systems. Personality theory helps me see how people have a TENDENCY to act such and so way, but they don’t have to.
I have no doubt that Katharine Briggs & her daughter Isabel Myers based this on science. It’s consistently accurate! And Clay, many times you describe something about yourself (hyperfocus on topics you’ve become curius about) that shock me how similar we are & I’ve tested countless times and have always come up INFJ. MBTI is not fluky!
Spot on again Clay , thank you for putting your thoughts out there for people like us. Very enjoyable to listen to ya
Thanks Clay, I appreciate your comments. I'm an 83 year old INFJ man. If you want to find out why people are different you have to look no farther than ontological mathematics; everyone's mathematical identity is configured differently. Ontic math has two aspects: form and content: syntax and semantics. It's an objective language which we interpret subjectively. Our collective subjective experiences determine our shared phenomenal reality.
Why not look at people themselves instead of mathematics? we do have brainscans, those are actually objective
Hello Clark your comment really interests me thank you. I've always been terrible with maths, where I have felt blocked in a way which has bothered me. Would you be able to explain what your comment means in a way that someone with a poor understanding of maths?
As someone who is also an INFJ... into astrology and always on the pursuit of understanding I will say, astrology isn't so much someone personality but how this person's perspective is, how they cope with things etc etc.
more than anything I see how these things as well as childhood upbringing etc all tie in together, mbti including.
For example, your two kids who are very different with the same parents have completely different astrology meaning they cope differently with the same circumstances which in turn might show and tell us what mbti they might be. (I'm guessing they're different mbti)
that's just my take.
I could truly go on and on trying to explain this.
I am also and INFJ, though can sometimes test INTJ (my enneagram is 5w4, 2w1, 9w1, which i guess is the type most likely to mistype as INTJ). also LEVF (attitudinal psyche type).
i look at the functions as more like the balance of a radio or an EQ that brings about a specific mix. we all use all the functions, but prefer these over those. the preferred functions develops the type. the descriptions function as behavioral tendencies, but not absolutes. It's a mistake to think that something that is supposed to establish a type is meant to explain your entire personality. it only serves to explain how we process information and make decisions.
some critics often rely on strawman arguments, like "it's not consistent. i get different results". the test isn't the problem. if someone took the same 16 personalities test 10 times and gets different results, it's the answers causing the inconsistency, not the test. MBTI kind of makes you look at yourself honestly. it's that level of knowing yourself that helps determine your actual type.
There is a book called Neuroscience of Personality by Dario Nardi which i guess is the first science done on it. the way i understand MBTI now is that it was meant to explain and categorize data, not a method of STUDYING personality. in this sense, it establishes a sort of beginning. what we do with it from there is kind of up to us.
The reason I started using it is because most of what i do online is impartial analysis and discussion of topics, and passing on information. very little of myself is actually online. so i decided to use MBTI (and enneagram) as a kind of indirect way of talking about myself.
Is art a science? Is opinion science? So many other things are not science simply because they can't be quantified in numbers. But they all have value. Science is not the only thing of value, whatever we want to put in the category of science. What about morals? Do they have value? "it's not science" is becoming a pathetic excuse. btw. do you think you know your kids' types ? Is it telling early on?
Luna you have a beautiful voice 🙂 there is a gentle quality where I could listen to you talking for hours.
For what it's worth, I have found myself in a similar situation to you when I discovered I was an INFJ. It was like unlocking a door where I was able to recognize patterns and make sense of the way I am and how I see/ feel/ experience life.
It offered an explanation about lots of things that I didn't understand.
Since then I have done a lot of research myself, where there were too many similarities between a number of people who are also INFJ.
There may be a lack of rigorous academic research about the validity or reliability of the mbti system, but I see it as a tool that can help guide people with a greater understanding of themselves and their ways of experiencing life.
I'd say if anyone does the test and relates to whatever their personality type is, they can take some value from it as a tool for working with preferences, perception and finding the best ways to optimise their strengths and be able to understand limitations.
If it's helpful to an individual and improves their experience of life, I don't think it really matters whether it's taken seriously from a scientific perspective.
What matters is whether it's of benefit or not.
This may be an aspect of me being an INFJ but I don't really care what other people think about something that is a benefit to me. I'm not causing any harm, I'm just doing inner work to grow and have a better understanding of myself and my environment so I can be a better person 😊
Speaking of drastically different personalities, my brother and I couldn't be much more different from each other. We're about 13 months apart. I think my earliest memory of the two of us together was when he was pulling the legs off of a spider, and I was horrified (without knowing the word "horrified"). We are different in so many ways! 😂😂😂😅
I heard from many psychologists that MBTI is too general for science. The suggested model is Big-5, which rates personality traits (extroversion, agreeableness, ...) in percentage to the other test results (simi8lar to IQ tests). That's the reason why MBTI is not good for science, because it's too inaccurate.
But no psychologist did tell me that MBTI is not applicable or is just false. It's just not applicable for science, because it's too broad.
I think both models are very important. While MBTI looks at our cognition (cognitive functions), Big-5 looks at your character traits.
//Edit:
You said that nothing in psychology is scientific. If I'm not wrong, in psychology the way to proof something scientifically is statistics. And that's the reason why it's not applicable for science, because it works with absolute values and not statistical/relative values (like the IQ test).
That's because to get to know people you will need test groups, a group of people. Than you do your tests and compare the answers to the rest of the group. And then they can do statements like "8% of the group scored 112 points in agreeableness.".
I feel when I know someone's personality type, which doesn't take long to figure out these days, it gives me so much understanding of them and I"m able to give them so much leeway because I know why they do what they do. People operate in their dominant function almost solely if they haven't grown or developed.
I find it to be very legit. The whole process of figuring out my type helped me see and understand myself on a level I didn’t reach before and then my growth journey came from it.
And I might be human but I see how the functions affect me, how I freak out and jump to unrealistic visions, how I’m not entirely in touch and aware of myself and my emotions, things like that. It’s a tool to figure yourself out and not be too hard on yourself and others when they’re doing what their brain is wired to do.
I just wanted to tell you that I research things like you. I am really into rheumatology right now (I am pre-medical). I feel like I jump from medical topic to topic and research about it until I either get bored bc I understand it (which is kind of impossible with medicine bc there is SO much) or I get overwhelmed bc there is so much (usually what happens with medicine lol). Thanks for making me feel less alone about researching so hard haha
When in doubt as to the voracity of Jung's theories, read his book, from cover to cover, Psychological Types. Jung went to great pains to be as point-counter-point on his own ideas, researching all the know personality typing up to his time. It will be more insightful than just MBTI, and help you understand the introverted intuitive in Jung's own words. Happy Holidays!
Legit or not it explains so much of my life and it helps to know it is just not only me.
I just finished taking the course psychology of personality and we took 57 different personality questionnaires. The big five is considered the most scientific personality test because it is the most valid and reliable. This means that it measures what it's supposed to measure and you get the same results consistently. The mbti is not as reliable as the big five because the mbti puts traits in categories rather than measuring traits on a continuum. If you are 51% extroverted you are put into the extrovert category and this gives a very different personality description, ENFJs are very different than INFJs. If you are around 50% in your extraversion trait and test over and over with the MBTI you could be put in a different category each time. I find MBTI works best with people who have traits that are clearly in one category or another. With the big five you can measure slightly differently on the scale, but it's not going to make a big difference in the outcome of the test like it does with MBTI. After taking the course I still find value in the MBTI. If you get good at identifying MBTI traits in others I find it useful for getting a quick snapshot of a person when you first meet them.
They lied to you, MBTI also measures traits on a continuum. Look up examples of official MBTI®©™ test results
@@NJ-wb1cz that's interesting. Would you mind telling me a little more because the official MBTI is not free and the website doesn't give a detailed description of how the test is scored. How does the MBTI handle people in the middle of the spectrum on a trait? As far as I am aware there are 2 categories for each trait and no in between. For example, a person is either introverted or extraverted, is there some kind of ambivert clause or category?
@@TheNutCollector some people on reddit posted their results but I couldn't quickly find them now. Afaik it was more or less what 16personalities does in their results, they still give you a type and descriptions of dichotomies, but the bars provide qualifiers. I'm not sure if they personalise your type description itself from your bars or not
@@TheNutCollector but in any case, all of that is commercialized typology that's very different from actually useful personal typology, with cognitive functions and an endless search for a type that never feels quite true, that helps the person essentially find themselves. And the type they end up with or don't end up with is irrelevant, every typology in that sense is just one of many mindset how to think about people, not some inherent property of a person
Great Videos 👏
Maby you can make a Video about MBTI + numerology + astrology + human desgin chart ? I think this would help others because I personally as INFJ can now see me much clearer through these tools combined together.
I just had a discussion with someone about MBTI and astrology and these were my exact thoughts
I think INFJs are very good at pattern recognition. Especially when it comes to human behavior. With MBTI, this rough understanding of certain personality types is validated over and over again, because the INFJ can clearly see patterns in how certain types behave. I think most people don’t have this ability. They don’t see these patterns of behavior so clearly.
I am just a beginner with this stuff and I feel it’s really helping me understand myself and those around me and how relationships can function or not function because of it. I find it’s value. Biology only had a central tenet when Darwin came along until the. It was the same as psychology is at today.
The best way to think of MBTI is that it attempts to identify an individuals thinking preferences. Are you a chaotic intuative like an ENTP? Are you internal and and creative like an INFJ? It's more like putting fruit together than describing the fruit. I also get having a better capacity for patience when you have a way to put words to people's behavior.
as a gifted INFP I laughed really loud ... we not that hard to recognized .... day dreaming all day... day dreaming
Thank you for great videos. All the best for the new year
Having some moments of hyperfixation.
I recognize the feeling. Nicely expressed. I am thankful that you have these video's.
By the way I noticed many similar charasteristics between INFJ type and gifted people. What are your thoughts about that?
Love you, Clay! I'd love to get your take on enneagram types! Like what's your core, your archetype, how do you find this model in comparison to MBTI, etc. :) Also looking fine with that green top on and new hairdo, hehe.
Completely off topic and please forgive the dorkiness but would like to know your wall paint color?
It’s called Summer Nights by Benjamin Moore
It matches your sweater 🧥🧥
Thank you so much. I couldn’t take my eyes off of it but did listen to your video intently too!😊
My stance is similar. Finding out I was an INFJ answered a lot of questions I was trying to solve on my own, so I mainly use it as a tool to understand myself and to place myself within the world. I don't really care what anyone's opinion of it or what the science behind it is if I'm able to benefit from it in that way. But having said that, I do think it has a negative reputation given how it's viewed as being one in the same with astrology or how fixated people get on it to the point that it's obnoxious so I get why people are on the more critical end of things.
Imperfect strongly correlated personality theory
Hi Clay. I am Seema from India. I am an INFJ myself. I am following to this MBTI from last few years. And it has been a life changing experience for me. This is my first msg on Social media.
I just want to give suggestion based on my experience that if You can deeply research Vedic Astrology it can give wonderful worldview how things and people works. I learnt about MBTI first and then Vedic Astrology. The learning from Astrology was profound. There are some people which are doing quite good research in this and which is as applicable on us as MBTI, but over than it. Nakshatra System of Vedic Astrology is determining our lives at very minute level. There are some good channel on this topic like, Dr. Arjun Pai Astrology, Lunar Astro, KRS channel etc. which you can try. I found that Astrology give the answers to the roots of the lives of a person while through MBTI we can see the outer or physical manifestation of these roots. I hope you have great learning experience. Lastly, thanks for your efforts and sharing your views which are quite interesting and useful for us INFJ.
Some other important Astrology channel are - Vic Dicara's Astrology, Exotic Astrology, Astro Intelligence, Astro Scientist Navneet Chhikara
I think it's misleading tp call these personality types. It's more like your orientation to the world. Anyway, people definitely are introverted, extroverted or ambiverted. You definitely can be intuitive (big picture type) or a sensory type (focusing on details). We see how some people lead with intellect or feelings. The judgement vs perception axis is still vague for me. I think it's more accurate to acknowledge that a lot of people may be halfway between two functions (most people are ambiverts and not extroverted or introverted). It's uncanny how INFJ fits me (I may be split between F & T though). These functions do describe people. Maybe clinical psychologists have a problem with the MBTI because they are focused on mental illness, and this typology doesn't fit into their DSM. After all, they create their own categories and give them names based on criteria they select to diagnose mental illnesses.
I agree with you on that I also do see its value. But, I just wanted to say that this is the 2nd time that I also listened to the phrase "mbti is like astrology but for nerds" and I just wanted to say that I find that people that say that usually don't have any understanding of astrology.
I personally know a little bit more about astrology than MBTI ( regarding MBTI I just read gifts differing and I only know about my type and 2 others. Meaning I don't know that much about MBTI yet) and is actually also deeper.
Everything is divided, meaning like how you express yourself depends on the different areas of your life (houses in astrology), and also the way you think (mercury), or what you value (venus), or how you go after things (mars) is not fixed, because is NOT only about the sun sign, but it involves much more than that. Is about the whole chart, and Not only the sun. And then all the aspects between planets also affect your personality. So, my point is , people tend to think about the sun sign, when astrology is about the whole chart, and is not something that is fixed, and also differs a lot depending on the interpretation.
So, I think is also very valuable as a tool of understanding yourself. But, is a DIFFERENT tool from mbti.
fun fact, I actually also do wonder a lot about the charts of INFJ's (or any other type for that matter) because I tend to suspect that there could be a certain kind of correlation between planet's placements, or signs in their houses and aspects, and mbti personality types. But I don't know if somebody will actually do that type of research hehehe ;)
Regardless of “real” or not,…. Finding similarities in human behaviors, is just a human way to organize… the differences in humans. I see no down side. If it helps us understand each other, what’s the harm? Aren’t there absolutely differences in people that we all would like to better understand? Or is it just,… me?.. I find the MB very useful.
i have a question . So how can we connect personality traits to their types as in like being funny,optimistic,bright or playful ... what do these types say about these traits and is there a connection at all? Im trying to ask how can someone with the same MBTI act so different ?
As introvert how had avoident attachement style. MBTI help be to inderstand m'y self .
Question: If you can figure out your kid's MBTI, and know what kinds of upbringings/trauma assist in shaping that MBTI result, can you adjust your parenting and change their personality? At what age do you think a personality would typically be set?
'I hate manipulation.'
Calm your bits, Clay! ;) Manipulation is a means of getting a person (or something inanimate) to do something they wouldn't do if not for that means. It can be for good or bad. You can warn a person, that would be observable manipulation. You can prevent a child from drowning in the water. That's manipulation too. I even condone lying if it means less harm (like not telling a person you think their baby looks like a molten ET). If you put on make up, you manipulate your appearance. Going on vacation to catch more sunlight? You're manipulating your environment. In science, one manipulates variables to figure out cause and effect. Manipulation is ubiquitous and is something neutral.
This is all something different than abuse and gaslighting etc. These are negative outlets of the same.
Stop shaming manipulation. We all do it, for better or worse.
“Manipulating variables” is not what I’m referring to here. I’m referring to people, who instead of acting in direct, honest ways to get their needs or wants met, they revert to backhanded, covert or misleading means to get those needs met. They often use deception, dishonesty and selfish techniques instead of direct communication.
The CIA uses MBTI to assess prospective assets , and during the hiring process.
Search for Andrew Bustamante .. former field officer who discussed this on the Lex Friedman podcast.
Please make a video on infj -T
I think personalities change over time
Fraudster My Boy! Just kidding. I am an INFJ myself, I just learned of my personality during a college course last year and found it useful, and I believe his studies to be true for my type, I haven’t took the time to look at the other types. I also have a degree in science in occupational therapy and soon bachelors in psychology
I see ENFP coming at me too!
Gotta add….. do I really trust “ Science “ anyway…..
Isn't it scientific though because a psychiatrist has practiced using it in psychotherapy? Speaking of Carl Jung.
they use the MBTI ??!! hahaha
Promo-SM 🙋
Science is not limited to facts. Key to science are Theories and Hypotheses. You use them as long as they work. You constantly test them and try to improve them. You get more data. It isn't if it is absolute truth, but is this a working system that can later be improved. Science is about improving things and better knowing things, not something that is supposed to be stagnant and permanent.
Even with horoscopes (which I agree are not based on as much), I don't just peg someone by their birthday, but I find it useful as a construct to decide if they are like that or not so much. Once I analyze in which ways they fit the stereotype then I have more information.
Systems do not have to be perfect in order to be useful.
Is it fake news? Only if you don't analyze it. Most beliefs aren't totally false or totally true. (I do have to admit that some seem so untrue that I don't bother with them.)
MBTI brings value to many. That is the bottom line. Thanks for your video.
🌬 '💜 WOW". 🥸 FASCINATING. 🤔 KEEP UP THE GOOD WORKZ, CLAY.💯🇺🇸🍇🇨🇦☮