$70,000 Dumb Shortcut… Causes Us to FAIL
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2022
- Incompetence that leads to a $70,000 mistake and waste in resources. Not all shortcuts are worth it in the end.
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I would be willing to bet that this part had no need of such tight tolerances.
Happens all the time at my shop...we're having trouble holding tolerances, the boss calls the customer, the customer verbally revises the tolerances on the spot.
Oh man. I saw H7 specified for a hole which gets rubber grommet later to run some cables thru. Many times. Why ? "Oh, our cad package put it in like that" lol
It *could* be going into an precision temperature controlled environment 🙄
Love when our customers engineering department thinks +/- .0002 is "Totally doable on UHMW plastic".
Well, leave this part machined at 60-70° Fahrenheit outside in 50° weather and watch it shrink up by .0005 or soak it in water and watch it swell by that much.
Engineers can put good ideas on paper, but alot of em don't know what they are talking about in the real world.
@@imadequate3376 I call them office engineers.
The reason so many people whip out the "its not my job" is they never get rewarded for it. If anything all you get is a reprimand for daring to think you could contribute to work beyond your title.
yep pretty much
I always say Daddy gets what daddy wants. Even if I know its not gonna work.
Save your company thousands get back on the back
Not do anything nothing changes
@@kinsgaming8197 100%. Especially because something totally unrelated goes wrong after it is YOUR FAULT lol
Been there, done that. Sometimes all you can do is stand back and watch the world burn. I once found a mistake on a wiring schematic and ending up getting fire because of it. I got a call about 2 weeks later by my old boss, the one that fired me, asking if I would come back to work. I said no.He then asked if I would at least come in and explain the mistake that I had found. The man that replaced me had spent a week trying to figure out why the system kept shorting out. I told him no, it was not my problem.
This is a culture problem in the U.S.. Both upper management, and their employees are to blame for it. Its the "us vs them" mentality that exists. Managers look down on employees, and employees despise managers.
Never get rewarded for it........ that's the mantra of losers.
Fun engineering story. Had someone ask what material to make a friction damper material out of. Basically it needed to sit for years bolted up. Then in an earthquake break free and slide back and forth with a bunch of friction at huge loads without galling or failing or changing friction much. I said highly leaded bronze because the lead will act as a high pressure solid lube for a bit. They laughed and said lead is too dangerous they spent years removing lead paint and they weren’t going to add lead back. Ok…it’s not free it’s embedded whatever….turns out they tested every other material they could think of at a uni and every one didn’t work. They called me 6 months later to ask what material I had suggested again. Sure enough they tested it until the testing machine broke. Worked like a charm. Polished out and ran like a champ. Copper sucks the heat out and the material wouldn’t gall because of the lead.
Teflon is the worst material I've ever had to hold tight tolerances on. I had to hold a thousandth parallelism on a piece that finished at .093 thick. After seeing how much it moved from thermal expansion I realized I was trying to make precision parts from rubber bands basically. It's never stable.
UHMW is just about as bad. Milk jug plastic. Shit will gain .010” if you fart in the wrong direction.
😳
I wish engineers and drafters would just stay away from the material there is plenty other plastic out there that will work. Mostly over engineering is the problem trying to build a rocket ship with every part
@@SaviorTheBurn this is when engineers need to "peer review" their works by the manufacturers of their own company more
but they are too prideful for that
@@adammiller4879 Food and Drug regulations keep us engineers stuck with using this material for certain applications. Get gud, I make parts out of this material because trying to depend on a machine shop was a waste of time.
I worl with Teflon every day. Old-school "Teflon" meaning PTFE have a phase-transition at around 18 degC (room temp) that also give a change in dimensions, explaining why it is hard to keep accurate tolerances. Today there are modern alternative materials that also go under the name Teflon, for example FEP and PFA. These are chemically the same, but they are not pressed, instead they are cast/melt-extruded so no risk of porosity, and they have much smaller thermal expansion around room temperature.
Teflon™ is just a brand name. Teflon™ ≠ PTFE, FEP, or PFA. For those, the correct name, presuming it's coming from or licensed by Chemours, is Teflon™ PTFE, Teflon™ FEP, or Teflon™ PFA. Using it as a generic term for any fluoropolymer is just genericizing the trademark, similar to Kleenex, Xerox, and Band-Aids.
And they aren't chemically the same, only very similar.
The narrator of this had some solid reasoning. I'm an engineer for lots of years...and, I can't begin to count the number of times a shop worker has raised some important issues. Great job!
It takes a mature adult to admit they've made a mistake. As frustrating as I'm sure the situation was at the time, I'm glad to hear this engineer decided to finally listen to the issues at hand and come to a reasonable solution for both parties; and you kept your cool. I know many of us have had our glory days in people's faces dishing out a heated argument at least once in our career.
I also have to commend all parties involved for working with you to get the resources necessary for job completion. To help a guy out over a large sale takes an exceptional level of experience and wisdom. It truly does take a village.
I was fired from a very good paying job in Aerospace QC because of a not to dissimilar situation. The engineer refused to admit he was wrong, and instead created drama to get me fired. Two years later that shop closed down; didn't feel vindicated, I liked that job, shop, and crew.
Team work in individualistic countries is more difficult to achieve although collectivist countries generally have individuals that lack personal responsibility.
That was very motivational, wish my employers would listen to and understand the point you clearly made. They'll make a mistake, tell us we're wrong when we try to warn them in the shop then complain further when the inevitable happens to them.
One sinks we all sink. A lesson I'm glad I learned before I was 21.
Being one of those people, I wish more people had this mentality.
Great morals mate, good to hear people doing the right thing.
I was an engineer with a big aerospace fuel components manufacturer. I made it a point to build a great network of shop guys that I treated with respect and typically brought my ideas to during the design process. To this day I am good friends with the retired manager of the entire manufacturing side of the airframe group. It is amazing what you can learn if you let go of ego.
I now have my own shop with 4 cnc machines making fuel components. Cheers
Great job! Risk is everywhere, and I find it amazing how many people are willing to make massive assumptions about things they aren't even well versed in.
Best CNC channel, best practical information and also good life priorities
Thank you for sharing. I didn't know this could so picky.
Teflon is a trigger word in our house because of this 😂
Dodged a huge bullet on that one! Great work Jess
Speaking as an engineer, any "engineer" who doesn't listen to the advice of experts in other fields is a fool... a fool who hopefully learns, and thus becomes a better engineer.
as an engineer speaking to another engineer about another engineer, unfortunately there are many of these types of engineers that I have had the unfortunate opportunity to work with. makes us all look bad.
I had the same problem with co-workers in every job I had before. Now I'm in charge, pay well and have the best workers in country.
Man I watched the video losing 100 million I thought man he has a strong heart hope that things get to where you want them to go.peace and love to you and your family. Just signed up your a true human being. Inspirational makes me work harder on myself to be better. Thanks
This story does not surprise me one bit. I experienced much of this during my years at Magna International. The engineers were constantly expected to meet various cost targets, and they had little knowledge of the materials and processes required to make the aprt.
we sometimes have huge issues with material inconsistencies. one time our machinist was turning from a 40mm diameter bar of aluminum and a foot of the material just fell out of the rest of it with a cone shaped end. or they have to change cutting parameter mid bar because of changing proterties ... but at least it's cheap and the people who order it only care about that
God damn that’s extra cheap. That’s why I’m a machinist and not a carpenter, consistent mediums. If your purchaser can’t even get material in that has the potential of being made into a good part efficiently then they need ran out the door. Running cast parts you’ll have problems like this but not to the point your safety is at risk because the material is that faulty.
Another example of "Maybe I should look at EVERYTHING on the print?" Great catch!
As always, fantastic point of view and a solid message to all the young guns. Bravo sir!
This was a really good talk on this very real problem.. i don't have to do things at that sort of tolerance levels but Man its a good lesson to take in all around..
I work in a completely different industry (software development) and it is scary how often I've had this exact situation play out.
True words of wisdom there. if you are beginning in this trade or any other manufacturing position. Pay close attention to this video. This attitude is the difference of someone that will be successful and someone that won’t! Great video guys! Keep it up.
Good for Titan. This "Whatever it Takes" attitude starts at the top.
I was an engineer for 40+ years at a very large American machine tool builder. That was the attitude there for a lot of years. Then we somehow got a new CEO who didn't belong anywhere near a machine shop. He hired a bunch of Yes-men who also didn't belong anywhere near a machine shop. Everything went to shit. Glad I retired 7 years ago.
I always considered everyone in the shop to be my friends and co-workers; machinists, maintenance, janitors, everybody. I never pulled any one up crap on any of them and trained many, many young engineers to be the same. A lot of the machinists saved my bacon when I screwed up or just when I needed help. In return, I treated them with respect and helped them when they needed it. Now that most of us are retired, they invite me to have coffee with them, etc, which makes me feel good. There's no reason to disrespect anyone you work with unless they've really earned it. Above all, there's no reason to lie and try to shirk your responsibilities
good story! makes me wonder, if those tight tolerances are actually necessary on that part in the first place.
since i am watching your channel, i often start discussions with my boss about his "design kinks" and how expensive those are to manufacture, and ask him why he insists on modeling free-form surfaces that require a 1mm radius ball mill to finish, in places that are just relief cuts. (injection mold inserts)
Sometimes failure is needed to promote change. Not everyone gets it.
And some people need to be promoted right out of there...
You should totally ask that engineer to be your pallbearer…. And if he ask why. Just tell him so you can let me down one more time lol
I've got 24 years of machining experience only in plastics 95% is virgin ptfe. And rough the stock down to .200 of finish and recooking it will help alot is in get a more stable and consistent part. But also most ppl don't realize thermo expansion is only part of the issue with compression molding. The amount of stress that is released after a part is cut off is a huge factor. I've seen parts @17 dia grow over night in the temperate controlled environment .080 to .090. So keep all those thing in mind guys. And in my opinion UHMW is probably the hardest plastic to hold tight tolerances. Its basically a garbage material and is used as the cheapest alternative. Give me ptfe mc901 vespel or peek over UHMW any day.
God Bless conscientious engineers and craftsmen in all fields. I'm a software engineer and we encounter similar problems regularly. Our client outsourced a lot of work to developers in India and Pakistan and they simply do not care to check the quality of their work, which also seems affected by a lack of discipline and attention - all of which leads to a LOT more work for others down the road, troubleshooting and recovering from careless or lazy mistakes.
Every conscientious engineer faces this realization: that if they do not do the best they know how to do they will generate a lot more work and lost revenue down the "production line". But many of those people don't realize how they benefit from our careful work.
One analogy that comes to mind is an auto mechanic working under a car: say he removes a part held on by six bolts and finds one of them stripped and not usable. Nobody else will know if he just puts back five bolts, drops the car back down to the ground, and moves on to the next job. Even if the part fails later it probably won't be traceable to him - he might even get "repeat business" for it!
How about the engineers design it not to strip? Now you're expecting this mechanic to take extra time fo fix the designer's mistake. For him time is money, he gets paid per job, not per hour. So you want him to drill and tap it, and go buy a new bolt to fit the larger bore? His customer isn't going tocpah more for that. Get the manufacturing process right. Factory stripped threads on a vehicle are pathetic. Manufacturers have miions of dollars in robotic torque guns.
@@Synergy7Studios I said the bolt was stripped, not the hole. But even in the example you give - if the engineer finds a stripped hole they should tell the owner or their boss, so that people can decide whether to do anything about it. If it took a lot of work to tap the hole that could be offered as an additional service to the customer.
My absolute loathing of willfully ignorant engineers knows no bounds. Specifying holding a .005 tolerance off an "as cast" surface that varies by .050 ought to get an engineer horse whipped.
basically it comes down to egos, and there's just too many bosses who can't accept they don't know more than the experts on their payroll.
I used to work at a company that had to fusion weld in a foil burst disk (no filler) and the procedure caused about a 40 % failure rate. The base part cost $800 and it could only be done once, you couldn't redo it.
I figured out a better way and for a year I had less than 4% failure to pass testing, so I was making the company about $600k in extra profits.
Due to a divorce and crazy child support (which got reduced when they finally admitted after a year they'd miscalculated it) I needed more money so asked for a raise. Note that in a small 15 employee company I was making HALF the company profit.
I didn't want much, $1.5 an hour and was refused.
So I quit and found a better job the next day. The old boss that thought he knew everything tried to do my job himself and ruined millions of dollars of production and they lost the lucrative contract. But he never asked me to come back either and I would have saved his company...
see? Ego
Engineer must have graduated from the Institute of Incompetence.
Maybe, if the boss was running around like a mad man just yelling order it and your in some massive corp who hates putting new suppliers on the books.
He was probably trying to get the quickest result. The supplier was also telling him they meet the spec so no worries!
I'd say the guy changed his mind and also took the time to setup a meeting, that doesn't seem like a poor response to me.
Good on the machinest though for following the whole thing through, most wouldn't.
@@ruuman yea, don't always be that way. When I get a job going I always verify all the information is up to date and signed off on the blueprint. Job number is always marked on the material received as well. Everything is tracked. Just as it should be. But you never know when you'll get that one guy like Mr. Engineer.
@@ruuman Everything has a learning curve. I think this particular situation changed the way that engineer thought about many things from that point forward.
@@randywl8925 exactly. The story is from the machinist perspective and he may not know other driving factors behind the supplier choice.
For example If the shop isn't cash rich but has good credit with the existing supplier that would be a big factor.
The engineer listened in the first place and admitted he was wrong when proven wrong. He learnt a good lesson for sure, but there is no way I'd say he was incompetent without knowing the whole situation.
This is really helping me to become a better engineer
The “it’s not my job” attitude is taught by the employer. By slapping down anyone who questioned a engineer. Or something similar. So it may be popular but that’s on corporate. 🤷♂️
That's Teflon! I've had a few parts with bores that had to be held to a couple of tenths and similar crazy features.
Great lesson, thanks for sharing.
What a mess. It's insane how hard is to machine parts made from weird materials like this one...
I love this! All of my experience is with PTFE and UHMW.
We ate 1.5 million dollars because we ordered from a guy that could do it cheaper. We had 800 machine hours in 250 parts that later failed crack testing after weld because the alloy wasn't to specification. Then we spent another 750k remaking them.
Hold on. Did you fail or didn't you? The title says you did, but the narrative says you didn't. Which is it?
I had to machine a bunch of Teflon on the lathe and brought in my shop vac from home and set that up at the tool and it just came off like a beautiful ribbon and just disappeared down the vacuum hose like magic. No pain the arse wrapping around the part.
Thank you Jessie!!!
很好的建議，也很發人深省。
Great advice and thought provoking.
super sharp tooling with postive rake will minamize growth and shrinkage
Good story this, quite enjoyed the content, I was looking forward to seeing the part though, it sounded impressive
Can you share the specified PTFE supplier? We have many issues trying to find a good one. Thank you.
Hearing stories like this makes me happy that i dont work at a job shop anymore lol
Awesome story. Sadly there are also people out there that think the other way around, my boss once said to me "It's not you're job to think about that, it will work" when i told him it will not.
Our company bought 4 machine's that where old and in bad condition from a insolvent company together with the contract that was running on them. My boss wanted to make them run even faster when they already where on they're limit... well in the end every thing didn't work out and the company made a loss with that contract cause they where forced to make that part's for about 4-5 year's by law. They lost even more money cause they didn't hear on us when we told them that we need repair here and there, one time the colant pump from the highspeed engine faild and they didn't repair it... well 50000€ for a new engine...
Hell i'm so happy i made it out of there, it realy was toxic and energy pulling in that company. Sadly it needed a Depresion befor realizing what they did to me...
This sounds like a tough one. I am familiar with machining specifications. This is an educated guess on my part. Was the finished piece a non-stick pacifier?
We gotta see this part when its done
Except what about the circumstance where one individual continually seeks to bypass protocols because they're "too much work" and in the process create more work for the manufacturing team with little to no lead time to react/adjust, and seems to be rewarded due to their "hard" work, that the rest of the team is actually making work out? As true as one sinks we all sink, I also believe in the idea that you can give someone enough rope to hang themselves
If there were any kind of tangible incentive for the underpaid boots on the ground to go through the trouble of finding a mistake or corner cut that is "above their pay grade" then we might actually see this kind of fairy tale play out in real life but all this would get most people is a "do your job and shut up or we'll find another guy that will". Like I said in another comment most companies set up their employees like crabs in a bucket and everyone is hoping for each other to fail because that is the only way there is room to move up.
@@ianbuilds7712 , or the cream rises to the top and everyone that thinks they're underpaid is just another miserable ashle making everyone around them miserable.
Bottom line in one word TEAMWORK
At least you guys got it straightened out before it all went the wrong direction. Last place I worked the engineers wouldn't listen to the floor guys at all. If I had half the money they wasted in material and labor I would be sitting pretty.
Absolutely agree, sir
Yeah, we have some huge teflon parts in our plasma process chamber.
Teflon has a huge thermal expansion coefficient AND goes through a structural change at around 18 degrees
You have to machine it warm
Nice message!
Did the thermal expansion end up being constant?
Good video and great message
6:19 The head of our local division does next to nothing for the company and gets paid like a prince. We are not in the same boat, and that goes for most companies.
good story but clickbait
i dont get what you expected but the story is exactly as the title suggests
Thank you!
True. Doesn't seem like Titan failed. Thanks to a diligent employee.
Definitely not clickbait.
But we do have to make the title intriguing.
Dude ordered the wrong material without looking at the print or caring and the material was $70k and Jessie tells the whole story… Oh and ya, that was a dumb mistake.
I would like to know who was the Teflon supplier you are talking about.
May we have access to the research papers that you read? Thanks.
Are there any jobs that are just so difficult that the cost is open ended because you have no idea how many dozens of times you will mess up and ruin the expensive material?
Would that have been the TH-cam Engineer? Im happy you saved it and keep pushing for Excellence.
These video should be used in high school and college classes to teach students about the real world. I teach high school economics. I am trying to figure a way to use them.
But what if you and all your employees hate the company ( and management ) ? How much do you give them ? I’m not proud of it , but I once sat back and watched almost every single person in management and engineering try to do a simple task on a machine all day long. They had demoted me temporarily because I actually took the vacation I turned in for and they approved. Did I eventually help them ? Yes. Was it 5 minutes before my shift ended ? Also yes. Do I work for them anymore ? NO
Sounds so familiar. I once worked in heat treatment departement of a big company. I had , 1995 , a beeper always with me in case of problems in the heat treatment departement 24/7 . When I went for 2 weeks on vacation I wrote a complete manual for 2 of the most important furnaces , in case of problems, which always should be running as whole production of this company was treated in those 2. Nobody from management wanted , not even a minute, to talk the manual through and show what to do in case of problems. Then I dropped the manual at 1 of the operators of the furnace and went on holiday/ vacation.
When I returned ....management called me out for not so pretty things...as it was almost impossible to solve malfunctions etc...it was A NIGHTMARE.
Then I went to operator of the biggest furnace..... I asked how was the NIGHTMARE ??? He answered : management are a bunch of weeners...I took your manual in case of malfunction.......looked up the specific malfunction and followed steps in the manual : NO PROBLEMO !!!! Those wankers in the office should SHUT UP !!
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I’m glad I don’t work in a little company.We have a material dept that specifically deals with those situations. Being a global company makes it even harder considering different locations make materials different.it all has to be tested and approved before I can add material to the cad.
good call
Most problems can be traced back to the engineer, regardless of the job or trade.
A load of glass fibre in the part would help stabilise it but it’s a nightmare
Very telling that this so called machinist hadn’t heard of thermal expansion. The coefficient of linear expansion was something that I had to do as part of my apprenticeship and years later had to use whilst making a machining fixture for a jet turbine fuel pump. Basic engineering practice and covered in about year two of an apprenticeship.
it was obviously a hyperbolic statement
From what I got out of it all was that the machinist knew enough to question the engineer?? It was apparently the engineer who specs the material and who had no idea about the different issues he could cause by trying to skim a lil more off the top . it's a real who's on first story but with a happy ending..
All of that and we don't even get to see a completed 17-inch part, good thing I jumped to fast fwd several times.
You must be the number one employee at your company and I hope your boss thanked you personally and rewarded you very well for your efforts!
I work as a leading hand machinist for a very big global company. Unfortunately I’m just a number and not much respect is given to people on the shop floor. Engineers and sales men are held in high regard. It doesn’t matter how hard we work or the floor because of politics the sales men and engineers get ALL the glory, so I stopped trying to fix their incorrect quotes and engineering mistakes, I just do as I’m told and make sure I have proof that the mistake lies with them.
I guess that’s what happens when you treat your staff like second rate citizens, sad but true.
More like "same shit another day". Thats how most companies work. Saved $70k ? Oh well... thx.
1:15 wtf!!!! how can it possible?
Plastics will change from sheet to sheet or part to part. Been there done that.
Lol tight tolerances and Teflon don't go together. Shit moves with heat so much. It's like you need to calculate exact heat expansion with the tool offsets.
Someone ordered from the material list, not the blueprints.
lol, client states 'preferred' supplier. thats a detailed spec...thanks client. lucky you had experience with eclectic materials.
And after all that , the night shift packed them up with dirty hands and stained the part 😭😭😭
Hey Titan.. I just seen on our website you came in to our shop. I work out at Firefly Aerospace.. sorry I missed you. I'm on nights and you were apparently already gone. Maybe next time!
Ya, Sorry I missed you. You guys are doing great things… Keep It Up
That was an interesting story until you performed an enormous self head job at the end. Bravo oldman. Youre an effin hero
Any tips on how to get management to listen to the ideas of a lowly machinist that’s only been doing it for 10+ years? Lol
Hello guys, i found your channel i was watching it before, i started one mont ago as an cnc operator and i crave for info! Im fresh as a lettuce, i was working as an carpenter for past 10 years, so im desperately search for step by step to improve faster. Do you have any lessons which could help me out? I mean anything, cause i feel i need more information and its really hard to digest and work at the same time.
Great question! Check out our Titans of CNC Academy website! Here you will learn how to design, program, and machine parts, followed by 101 fundamental resources. It's all FREE!
academy.titansofcnc.com/
We also provide a 24/7 global CNC support group on Facebook, Titans of CNC Machining. Hope to see you there! 😁
facebook.com/groups/titansofcncacademy/
People are asking if the close tolerances are necessary. If the material changes significantly with ordinary temperature changes, then it will be changing in use, and will not stay within the tolerances so carefully manufactured. Clearly useless.
Teflon was a wonderful invention if you needed lowest coefficient of friction & could live with its weird thermal properties. Washers, bushings & simple sliding surfaces OK. Fancy machined parts, not so much...
Honestly if its a larger company most dont give a fuk about it. They would have just ordered the material and said oh well "My bad" and could care less.
Tell the engineer to fly a kite and redesign it
Is Teflon plastic like this the same as Teflon used in old frying pans that causes cancer and know as a “forever chemical”? I’m very curious to know as I’ve been making Teflon piston rings at work and machining it makes a fair bit of fine dust that I’m surely breathing in a little bit.
It’s mostly about burning it which releases the cancer stuff if I’m correct (>200C)
They also sell PTFE spray to lubricate chains. It it would be cancerous at room temperature I assume (hope) it wouldn’t be legal to sell it without any warning
@@ronald7638 ya that’s what’s you hope anyway. I just watched that Dark Waters movie about Teflon and everything the company DuPont had to do with it, definitely has me a bit worried. Lol
Why on earth teflon has thermal expansion?!
Back when I was a young machinist
We had a part come into the shop internal part
I looked at the drawing and realized that it's not going to work it's physically impossible
I show it to my boss who's been a tool and die maker for at this point probably 25 years and he immediately says yep you're right it's not going to work take it back to engineering
So I take the drawing to engineering I try to explain to the engineer that the part won't work
He explains to me how he's an engineer he went to college I didn't I should just shut the f****** and do my job
So I tell my boss what he told me
My boss says okay you know what to do Make his part
So I took my brown paper bag dumped my lunch out of it scooped a handful of metal shavings into the bag
Then my boss and myself went back to the engineering office with the drawing handed him the drawing and then dumped the bag of metal shavings onto his desk and said here's your part
He gets all kinds of pissed off naturally
My boss tells him he can either A look at the damn drawing like I had tried to get him to do earlier
or b my boss was going to allow me to drag him over his desk and beat him into a coma and his own office which I was more than happy to do
So he takes a quick look at the drawing and realizes where he made the mistake
He scoffs and says you guys could have fixed this
My boss and I both pointed out that we are not authorized to change engineering designs nor do we get paid to do engineering that was solely his responsibility to make sure his parts were right when they hit the shop floor not our responsibility to make changes to drawings that he messed up since he gets paid way more than we do
"that's not my job" has always been in fashion.
:}
Amen!
Imagine working with delrin instead of Teflon..
I hope that engineer doesn't have a job anymore