We use Kaiser boringhead's in our shop with analogue dial's and we also hit really tight tolerances with those tools. It's just all about being focused when doing precise work. You made a point by losing count yes, but when you know you are doing something exact just don't get distracted. If your buddy that came to ask you something is a machinist too he should be able to understand that you are doing something where you gotta be focused. All in all it is a cool tool and useful if you are not used to it.
because TITANS are usually only buisness model of youtubing :D bro you cannot take every word they say :) they show us so many tips and tricks i agree but i think every normal cnc machinist,programer must know these things withou TITANS if dont is not good operator,machinist,programator :)
its not usually a workmate that's the problem. I usually find its management ! (Particularly the ones who came off the shop floor who SHOULD know better)
Exactly, some of us used to hold +\~ .0002 on 60 year old Bridgeports on a boring head with no adjustable cross slide, just a half thousandth indicator and some tappy tappy
Also I noticed he's boring both down and no Q retract from an M98 spindle position so I'm predicting he's not using a G76 boring cycle, moreso just basic plunge feed and return feed.
I still heared from this system, but never seen one in action before. Thank you for showing. At my workplace, we have very tight tolerances at our workpieces to produce. Sometimes it is not allowed to open the window or door, because the change in room temperature can affects the result of the bore diameter. Also the coolant must cooled down to 20 degrees celsius, before starting the boreing process. Greetings from Germany.
@@mostlymotorized We have measuring pins for bores up to 10 mm. They are polished and manufactured with an accuracy of 0.0001 mm. Each diameter comes into a set of 100 pins with tight gradations. Every bore that has a larger diameter is measured with 3-point probes that can measure to an accuracy of 0.001 mm. The bore tools we use, are manufactured by KAISER in Germany an have an accuracy of 0,001 mm. All measuring tools are stored in an climate box and getting checkt each half year from an certified calibrating laboratory.
you live the dream. In summer my workshop is around 38 degrees, the enclosure of my machine is at 45 degrees and I'm suppose to get tight tolerances of 0 +0.02 😓
@@mendadrog this is absolutely bad for the quality of your product output. The foundry, I am working for, is the world leader in its market. To stay the best in the world, needing a lot of innovations and manpower. Actually we build up an second machining center and needing in the next two years 100 machinists and people for our tool management. East 1995 we are using 3D printing technology in industrial scale. All our products are Prototypes and the world is needing more and more of this hy quality products. So the future looks very good for us. We have Offices in Bangalore - India and Ann Arbor - North America. More than 1700 Custumors in 37 Countries. The name of the company is ACTech GmbH, located in Freiberg - Saxony in Germany. The ACT means Advanced Casting Technologies.
Another awesone video by Titan, personally never went off the dial as a tool and die maker, always setup a tenths indicator off the side for opening up the bore. I can't even imagine working in a place with all this modern tech. My shop has such old equipment.
As a machinist who started out boring with boring bars both with AND without those dials, I'd have KILLED for something like that. I always dreaded having to change the inserts on my boring bar. It was a custom built bar with multiple inserts going down it and cut 5 diameters at once, each a different size. NO DIALS. Each insert had a set screw that could be used to adjust the insert and, therefore the diameter of the corresponding bore. Bringing each one into size was a chore, especially making all adjustments by feel with allen keys. I can almost guarantee that company is still using them too. Glad to see that something far better is out there.
I saw video about this thing long time ago on Kennametal channel. As far as I remember, it's designed to fall off as soon as the tool starts to rotate and should survive impact into wall of the machine.
I am just amazed at today machines. I am thankful to see stuff like this it's a education on line and one of the biggest reason for the internet. These machines are light-years past the old bridge port, and davin port I used just out of high school none of this computer stuff I'm lost just watching this and in wonder what is ahead thanks for the video.
What is ahead is dark manufacturing, where robots cut the stock, load it into your machine and run the job with no human intervention required. In 2009 I was hauling beer out of Anheuser-Busch’s brewery outside Syracuse, NY. They’ve got a huge warehouse where they keep the deliverable beer. Distributors send in their orders via EDI. There’s a little office that assigns these orders to particular docks. A Teamster backs your empty trailer into a dock. When it’s there, all these little robotic forklifts immediately pull your order and put it in your trailer; the only possible point of failure is if the wrong trailer was put in the dock. So, basically, we’re all going to be administrators in the future. Consider Titan’s shop. Titan doesn’t employ engineers; all his work comes in pre-designed. There’s no reason why a computer and robots couldn’t look at each job as it came in to assign it to a machine, order materials, set up all the tooling, load and run the jobs, do QC on the finished pieces, crate them and load the trucks with the finished work. Same thing with most of the skilled trades. However, he’d need a lot more floor space for maneuver paths for the robots.
@@jmowreader9555 well that's if we let them, and yet their are no robots to fix the robots so humans aren't out of the picture yet. BUT ONE DAY and we know it's coming!
Button pushers lol, I’ve never messed with CNC but it was funny watching CNC guys come into the shop I worked at, they learned really fast that they weren’t machinists.
Really love the way you guys use tool presetter and everything. The only thing I would say could be done otherwise - that our company got - is to get that software to print out a QR code on the lable, and install a QR code scanner into the machine. It will delete the last possible human error, not reading anything, and not puching in any digits. Awesome video!
While presenting the tool you put the data in the chip of that is attached to the tool holder, when you put the tool inside the ATC the machine reads the data. So you can swap tools between machines without risk of collisions
That tool is nice! Thanks for posting this video as it shows we can all do better if we keep up with the times and I am sure many are like me and never knew this tool existed.
That's so awesome. I had that happen to me on my first set of boring operations at my first job. At some point a coworker came by looking for something and being friendly. That was enough for me to completely lose my rhythm, and I think I ended up doubling up on my second cut, which took the bore just out of tolerance. I let my boss know. Unfortunately, it was a piece of like 4-5" thick steel, and we didn't have the stock to just fire off another. I felt bad about that one.
I worked for a small minded company in Sheffield England after 6 months of excellent work. Despite getting them out of the suit numerous times they thought they would dock me 6 hours pay.... I left that place they say after
What would be REALLY cool is if all this equipment was networked. In that system, instead of Jessie having to plug the numbers off the Haimer print into his mill’s console, the Haimer would transmit them directly to it…no chance of transcription errors.
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It's a pre-setter. Normally prepare tools for the next job while one is running. So not best to change tool offsets while another job is running.
I might be getting confused with a different vid but I thunk you can save them to a USB stick and transfer all the tool for the job simultaneously. Again I might be wrong haha
We use RFID chips for all information about tool lenght, no Stickers or something! All information fully automated saved and updated. Industry 4.0 Germany :) Company big Kaiser has digital display tools for boring, so nothing really new ;)
pffff...)))) while you are setting up, I would have time to make a rough and finish pass.... Of course, you have good equipment, in any case, thanks for the knowledge) With love from Russia ;)
once had a tight tolerance in polyoxymethylene (POM) with 21,9 (+-0,005) mm and this tool actually helped me get them all perfect. and btw: your tip with loosening up the vice before you go for tight tolerances saved me really. keep the good videos up :)
@@boerke123 since it was only 8 holes total and I only had to take off .05mm in the soft material the insert was like brand new aafterwards I think it really comes down to what material you are machining and how well built the tool is
All of the high tech equipment is impressive! I have experience with Dykem, trusty Post-It Notes, and Tool Eyes (when you could trust them) hahaha The Haimer Uno looks like a blessing in disguise, ease of use to the operator and those who don't have eagle eye vision. Chips on some inserts can be insanely small and just as difficult to see under a standard backlit magnifying glass. Awesome video!
When using a boring head in a CNC machine how does the retract work.? Do you just feed it out? I would think it would take a small spring pass cut on the way out then. Probably bad for the finish and could introduce chatter. Any insight would be greatly appreciated
Most CNC mills have monitored spindle orientation, so you can easily just tell the machine to stop the tool, set the spindle to a preset orientation, move the cutting edge 0.1mm away from the bore diameter and retract in rapid. We got a ~30 year old cnc mill with a sub-routine for that out of the box, where we just tell it how deep to bore with a parameter and all we have to do beforehand is mount the boring head in the right orientation
@@jetfire5991 Ok thanks. That makes sense. I’ve been curious about this for a while. I thought I saw at one point in the video the tool spinning as it came out. It may of even been on the finish pass.
@@Revilokab it might have been, since a spring pass is just a result of tool deflection. That boring head they're using in the video looks really rigid, and they are only removing like ~0.1mm each side, so I imagine that spring pass that would happen to be next to non-existent. I'm just speaking from my experience, since we're usually trying to hit the dimension with a single pass to save on cycle time, and depending on the material, that spring pass for us could make a difference of 0.01mm in mild steel (~0.0005") or 0.05mm in stainless (~0.002"), so we're usually using the routine for pulling away to avoid that.
subroutines are great, but most newer machines have a handful of canned cycles just for boring. writing a subroutine would have the same result. IIRC, theres a cycle to orient the spindle and retract a spscific distance in I and J, dwell at the bottom and feed out, feed in and feed out at different rates, feed in and rapid out maybe? probably for spring loaded tools on the rapid out. it's been a while for me, so I don't know them off hand. as with mosy things, it always depends on the job. is it a short run of one offs? are you trying to shave seconds off a production cycle that rapid is worth risking? is there a surface finish callout? maybe they want a cross hatch on the cylinder walls that an abrasive will touch up minor scuffs afterwards. have pride in your work, but make sure you're not doing unnecessary work for free.
Excellent, use of technology. Can the display be used on multiple bars and does it remember the size of each bar? Also what happens if the display isn’t removed, can the machine be started?
If trying to hold a close tolerance AND make the best possible finish, is it still normal practice to bore through the part then feed back out again? Doesn't the tip of the insert cut more material on the way up and/or compromise the finish you produced on the way down?
We use d'Andrea and Sandvik, and I can wholeheartedly say that d'Andrea is way better than Sandvik. I'll have to be making adjustments after every part with the Sandvik and I've never touched the d'Andrea since changing the insert 60 parts ago!
We use big kaiser with a built in digital display Btw: why no spindlestop and spindleorientation when you reach the final depth and a small offset to get out of the hole? Sry, english is not my first language
We all get trapped in our ways sometimes and the simplest thing goes right over our head. In another comment a guy says he uses an indicator to adjust the boring tool in the machine. I do this method all the time for a lot of other tools but for some reason I was a dumbass and never thought of it because there is a dial. Screw the dial, I'll start using the indicator method, it's much more precise.
We use those bar style for roughing and finishing, but I don't think they hold up as well as the older style finish bars But our bars get used hard. And I always make my adjustments in the tool setter But it would be great not having to take the bar out to make the adjustments
You can also use a dial gage on the cutting edge of the boring head to measure for the backlash. 1, Set your boring head. 2, cut a test whole and measure the whole for actual cut settings. 3, set a dial gage on the cutting bar3, 4, final set the boring head and make sure the dial gage readings confirm the radius you are dealing in on the boring head. I know its cumbersome but certainly doable without breaking the bank.
I could tell he was trying to hold back a smile when the size right off the presetter would have put the part in tolerance. Of course, you don't go straight to size with your presetter, but in this case he totally could have.
It's not that simple exactly. If you already know what material you are boring, and you already know how much stock you are leaving, and you know what the setting needs to be with a certain amount of stock left to have just the right amount of tool pressure... then sure you could offset the number straight from the tool presetter and hit it bang on (Can I justify one of those for my garage? LOL). But that requires the exact thing these tools are meant to fix: You need a specific operator who knows the quirks of the specific tool in a specific material and knows what voodoo numbers to use for a particular job. That's all well and good and in a small shop environment it can work, but not ideal when you need 20 different people to be able to knock out a new random part out of a random material and hit the tolerance the first time.
Love your video's!!! But with all the respect, I've been using digital boring heads for over 20 years now. Even the newer generation were you are able to read your size out on your phone. I really hate to ad stuff to tools that rotate at those speeds.
Do newer bore heads still have backlash or is there newer better technology? Seems like they should have covered removing the backlash in the adjustment.
Everything has backlash. Backlash isn't your enemy, worn/sloppy ways are. Drunk threads and ignoring the foundations of mechanical accuracy are your enemy. Also there's no way to fit a ball screw arrangement in that small of a package, without it costing half a million.
Getting accurate results with lots of lash isn't a problem if the ways have propper guidance and no sticktion do to in proper thrust design. Read foundations of mechanical accuracy and precision hole location by Wayne f Moore.
The problem with using a presenter to set boring bars, in my experience, is that the presenter doesn't measure the tool as it's cutting with the cutting pressure on it. I normally go .002 undersize to be safe and then work my way up. More for sub .0005 tolerances. Also, alot of boring bar adjustment is in how you tighten the set screw. Everyone has their own way. Kaiserheads aren't as bad but in my shop I rarely see them. Also spring passes. The nice thing is once a boring bar is dialed, it's dialed. The digital gauge would help with adjusting it though. You can note where your original adjustment left you and comp for your spring pass on the current and your first pass on future parts separately.
If your employer won’t buy a boring head like this would putting a clock on your insert do similar job ? With spindle locked in place . Just wondering 💭
Does the display show the true radial movement or is it diameter . Like let’s say you have a 5.0000 hole, the first cut was at 4.995, would it be .0025 or .005 adjustment ? (Not accounting for tool pressure)
You'd be shocked at what those boreheads will do. We, myself and the kid I trained, make .0001 adjustments while feeding an assembly line the old fashioned way, dial tools. It really boils down to keeping it in spec but it's not hard without the digital reader.
I have a question how does the Haimer Uno know the length of the tool? Is the length of the tool the height of the tool or the diameter of the tool in the offset page for tool geometry?
It's the height. I've never used a tool setter like that but it's a safe assumption there is a machine zero that is set from a standard dimension of a CAT40 tapered holder.
Yes, it's bordering on offensive to label mechanical boring heads as "obsolete" just because a more convenient option has been developed (probably driven more by marketing than by innovation). These guys are just trying to monetise a sort of fifth column marketing effort, trying to induce the machinist's equivalent of penis envy, and I for one am not particularly interested.
OMG, I feel like a dumbass. Doh!! I use this method for a bunch of our other tools, I can't believe it went over my head to use this method for an adjustable boring tool.
Did you bore all the way in then all the way out again? Do you not have spindle orientation? Just stop at the bottom, stop spindle, orientate, move off centre then rapid out. Halving the life of the insert doing it your way.
Just to point out, no machinist worth his salt will trust the boring head dial alone. I would always use a dial on the tool as it is adjusted. That said, it’s a pretty sweet system.
I was taught to get you real close anyways. Measure the holder flange diameter, then use an indicator and zero it on that, teach your axis as that flange diameter. Then move to your insert and find the highest point and look at your axis that you input the flange diameter to. You should now see what that diameter is. Im sure this sounds confusing.
Maybe a little thing for automation. you are printing a label from the measuring machine. Then manually typing in that data on the label. Why not just have the measuring machine print a barcode 1D or 2D and then have a scanner on the mill, to scan said data in. This way you can't make a mistake in typing in said data from the tool
The operator could mess up transferring the length for Z or he could touch it off on the tool eye. I am assuming the program is going off the centerline of the tool so it won’t matter if the operator fat fingers the X and does t double check.
Fanuc? I'll have to check it out. When we are trying to hold a surface finish and a tight tolerance we usually G85 because the bore out helps reduce tool pressure.
I understand that you guys are sponsored by kenametal and you review and demonstrate their products, but there is a company called diabore that produce a boring tool with a integrated digital screen that is permanent with the tool and not a separate add on device.
I’ve never used a dial on any boring head, always used a .0001 indicator but then again that was many years ago lol, that’s pretty much all this is though.
You can do that depending on the tool and orientation. In Fanuc we G85. Bore in, bore out, which is what you want to do when trying to hold a surface finish and remove tool pressure. G86 will bore to depth, stop the spindle at depth and rapid out but it will leave a tool mark. However, the tool mark is minimal. You could also G01 in at one feed and feed out at another feed. Most of the time we just G81(feed in, rapid out), like a drill cycle.
It would be nice to have that equipment but we wouldn't use it enough for it to efficiently pay off in the time saved. (*edit* What is extremely affordable? That's certainly a debatable topic when it comes to buying machinines) We set boring tools the old fashioned way... On the surface plate, sweeping the insert to find the high, and adjusting accordingly or in our optical comparator(
Hey Mr. Jessie! PLEASE change the insert clamping screw! The overtorqued screw is junk, Mister! I've see'n it at 2'49" and 3'38" (at the haimer screen). It does'nt match to a high tech machine shop with a lot of brand new equipment with high standards...
We use Kaiser boringhead's in our shop with analogue dial's and we also hit really tight tolerances with those tools. It's just all about being focused when doing precise work. You made a point by losing count yes, but when you know you are doing something exact just don't get distracted. If your buddy that came to ask you something is a machinist too he should be able to understand that you are doing something where you gotta be focused. All in all it is a cool tool and useful if you are not used to it.
it's now OK to ask all sorts of questions including stupid ones using the Kennametal boring bar as it doesn't lose count
because TITANS are usually only buisness model of youtubing :D bro you cannot take every word they say :) they show us so many tips and tricks i agree but i think every normal cnc machinist,programer must know these things withou TITANS if dont is not good operator,machinist,programator :)
its not usually a workmate that's the problem.
I usually find its management ! (Particularly the ones who came off the shop floor who SHOULD know better)
Damn straight!
Exactly, some of us used to hold +\~ .0002 on 60 year old Bridgeports on a boring head with no adjustable cross slide, just a half thousandth indicator and some tappy tappy
How many of those are going to get flung off and smashed when someone forgets it on the tool?
Exactly, why not just make a digital boring bar -_-
Also I noticed he's boring both down and no Q retract from an M98 spindle position so I'm predicting he's not using a G76 boring cycle, moreso just basic plunge feed and return feed.
Don't forget it on the tool then. 😉
i was about to say that
We are using this stuff for years and never had one of us forgotten to remove it, i had the same thought in the beginning when we started using them
I still heared from this system, but never seen one in action before. Thank you for showing. At my workplace, we have very tight tolerances at our workpieces to produce.
Sometimes it is not allowed to open the window or door, because the change in room temperature can affects the result of the bore diameter. Also the coolant must cooled down to 20 degrees celsius, before starting the boreing process.
Greetings from Germany.
@@mostlymotorized We have measuring pins for bores up to 10 mm. They are polished and manufactured with an accuracy of 0.0001 mm. Each diameter comes into a set of 100 pins with tight gradations. Every bore that has a larger diameter is measured with 3-point probes that can measure to an accuracy of 0.001 mm. The bore tools we use, are manufactured by KAISER in Germany an have an accuracy of 0,001 mm. All measuring tools are stored in an climate box and getting checkt each half year from an certified calibrating laboratory.
you live the dream. In summer my workshop is around 38 degrees, the enclosure of my machine is at 45 degrees and I'm suppose to get tight tolerances of 0 +0.02 😓
@@mendadrog this is absolutely bad for the quality of your product output. The foundry, I am working for, is the world leader in its market. To stay the best in the world, needing a lot of innovations and manpower. Actually we build up an second machining center and needing in the next two years 100 machinists and people for our tool management. East 1995 we are using 3D printing technology in industrial scale. All our products are Prototypes and the world is needing more and more of this hy quality products. So the future looks very good for us. We have Offices in Bangalore - India and Ann Arbor - North America. More than 1700 Custumors in 37 Countries.
The name of the company is ACTech GmbH, located in Freiberg - Saxony in Germany. The ACT means Advanced Casting Technologies.
Another awesone video by Titan, personally never went off the dial as a tool and die maker, always setup a tenths indicator off the side for opening up the bore. I can't even imagine working in a place with all this modern tech. My shop has such old equipment.
As a machinist who started out boring with boring bars both with AND without those dials, I'd have KILLED for something like that. I always dreaded having to change the inserts on my boring bar. It was a custom built bar with multiple inserts going down it and cut 5 diameters at once, each a different size. NO DIALS. Each insert had a set screw that could be used to adjust the insert and, therefore the diameter of the corresponding bore. Bringing each one into size was a chore, especially making all adjustments by feel with allen keys. I can almost guarantee that company is still using them too. Glad to see that something far better is out there.
You can immagine how often the digital dial take a fly throug the tangent 😁
I saw video about this thing long time ago on Kennametal channel. As far as I remember, it's designed to fall off as soon as the tool starts to rotate and should survive impact into wall of the machine.
That thing better be bulletproof!
That's why u just get a digital boring bar...
Maybe itll find the rest of my indicator I threw a while back
I am just amazed at today machines.
I am thankful to see stuff like this it's a education on line and one of the biggest reason for the internet.
These machines are light-years past the old bridge port, and davin port I used just out of high school none of this computer stuff I'm lost just watching this and in wonder what is ahead thanks for the video.
What is ahead is dark manufacturing, where robots cut the stock, load it into your machine and run the job with no human intervention required.
In 2009 I was hauling beer out of Anheuser-Busch’s brewery outside Syracuse, NY. They’ve got a huge warehouse where they keep the deliverable beer. Distributors send in their orders via EDI. There’s a little office that assigns these orders to particular docks. A Teamster backs your empty trailer into a dock. When it’s there, all these little robotic forklifts immediately pull your order and put it in your trailer; the only possible point of failure is if the wrong trailer was put in the dock.
So, basically, we’re all going to be administrators in the future. Consider Titan’s shop. Titan doesn’t employ engineers; all his work comes in pre-designed. There’s no reason why a computer and robots couldn’t look at each job as it came in to assign it to a machine, order materials, set up all the tooling, load and run the jobs, do QC on the finished pieces, crate them and load the trucks with the finished work. Same thing with most of the skilled trades. However, he’d need a lot more floor space for maneuver paths for the robots.
@@jmowreader9555 well that's if we let them, and yet their are no robots to fix the robots so humans aren't out of the picture yet.
BUT ONE DAY and we know it's coming!
@@darrellhart9363 Yes, "robot maintenance technician" is the growth profession of the 21st Century.
Button pushers lol, I’ve never messed with CNC but it was funny watching CNC guys come into the shop I worked at, they learned really fast that they weren’t machinists.
Really love the way you guys use tool presetter and everything. The only thing I would say could be done otherwise - that our company got - is to get that software to print out a QR code on the lable, and install a QR code scanner into the machine. It will delete the last possible human error, not reading anything, and not puching in any digits.
Awesome video!
We have the Numbers put in the mashine by wifi. No need for qr scanner of you have wifi.
Even better is a RFID chip on the tool holder that has all the data.
We had it already 20 years ago on a Mandelli Milling center
@@daveticino1 so tell me what is the bennefits rfid chip?
While presenting the tool you put the data in the chip of that is attached to the tool holder, when you put the tool inside the ATC the machine reads the data. So you can swap tools between machines without risk of collisions
@@daveticino1 we never swap Tools in our mashines. Thats the same as swearing in the church.
That tool is nice! Thanks for posting this video as it shows we can all do better if we keep up with the times and I am sure many are like me and never knew this tool existed.
I used to adjust the boring head on the spindle sweeping the insert tip against a dial indicator (.0001) This is awesome.
The best way right here!
This fancy boring head looks like a waste of money to me. Nothing wrong with using a dial indicator method on.normal boring head.
I was going to say this but found it in the comments first.
@@TorchRed99FRC A "grayhair" taught me that a long time ago.
Titan and crew are on some next level sh*t. Im just tryna keep up.🤣
That's so awesome. I had that happen to me on my first set of boring operations at my first job. At some point a coworker came by looking for something and being friendly. That was enough for me to completely lose my rhythm, and I think I ended up doubling up on my second cut, which took the bore just out of tolerance. I let my boss know. Unfortunately, it was a piece of like 4-5" thick steel, and we didn't have the stock to just fire off another. I felt bad about that one.
I worked for a small minded company in Sheffield England after 6 months of excellent work. Despite getting them out of the suit numerous times they thought they would dock me 6 hours pay.... I left that place they say after
What would be REALLY cool is if all this equipment was networked. In that system, instead of Jessie having to plug the numbers off the Haimer print into his mill’s console, the Haimer would transmit them directly to it…no chance of transcription errors.
It's a pre-setter. Normally prepare tools for the next job while one is running. So not best to change tool offsets while another job is running.
You can get rfid tags in the retention knobs and Zoller has a presenter that can do it. I’m sure the haimer probably could too.
I might be getting confused with a different vid but I thunk you can save them to a USB stick and transfer all the tool for the job simultaneously. Again I might be wrong haha
Calibration just became easy with your DD ,what a handy little sucker
Titans T-Team play hard to teach with passion....BOOM.....
We use RFID chips for all information about tool lenght, no Stickers or something! All information fully automated saved and updated. Industry 4.0 Germany :)
Company big Kaiser has digital display tools for boring, so nothing really new ;)
I came late to see this video...Last week has been very difficult for me ...Thank you Mr. Jesse for such a great job that makes the mood better ....
Dang made life a lot easier after 30 yrs, this is cool stuff.
pffff...)))) while you are setting up, I would have time to make a rough and finish pass....
Of course, you have good equipment, in any case, thanks for the knowledge)
With love from Russia ;)
Kaiser heads are the best I've used. Digital and does exactly what you tell it to do every time.
once had a tight tolerance in polyoxymethylene (POM) with 21,9 (+-0,005) mm and this tool actually helped me get them all perfect.
and btw: your tip with loosening up the vice before you go for tight tolerances saved me really. keep the good videos up :)
How well did the mate stay in the material overtime, in my experience its really hard to keep it at a tight tolerance
@@boerke123 since it was only 8 holes total and I only had to take off .05mm in the soft material the insert was like brand new aafterwards I think it really comes down to what material you are machining and how well built the tool is
LOL, is it just me, or has this channel turned into QVC home shopping network for machinists?
Awesome video. Something satisfying about boring especially seeing the finish after.
I love seeing the Haimer Microset in action! Very cool!
have you seen the "spindle inside a spindle" from Heller? thats Heller cool you can change the cutting diameter while the spindle is turning.
All of the high tech equipment is impressive! I have experience with Dykem, trusty Post-It Notes, and Tool Eyes (when you could trust them) hahaha
The Haimer Uno looks like a blessing in disguise, ease of use to the operator and those who don't have eagle eye vision. Chips on some inserts can be insanely small and just as difficult to see under a standard backlit magnifying glass.
Awesome video!
Now that is COOL. Way easier than the usual boring heads
How's your eyesight my man, Jessie telling the truth? 😂
@@UrsusSuperior44 Hey, enough with the shade. A lot of us don't have perfect hearing after years of machining 🤣
Hey Barry, how many fingers am I holding up ✌😂
When using a boring head in a CNC machine how does the retract work.? Do you just feed it out? I would think it would take a small spring pass cut on the way out then. Probably bad for the finish and could introduce chatter. Any insight would be greatly appreciated
Most CNC mills have monitored spindle orientation, so you can easily just tell the machine to stop the tool, set the spindle to a preset orientation, move the cutting edge 0.1mm away from the bore diameter and retract in rapid. We got a ~30 year old cnc mill with a sub-routine for that out of the box, where we just tell it how deep to bore with a parameter and all we have to do beforehand is mount the boring head in the right orientation
@@jetfire5991 Ok thanks. That makes sense. I’ve been curious about this for a while. I thought I saw at one point in the video the tool spinning as it came out. It may of even been on the finish pass.
@@Revilokab it might have been, since a spring pass is just a result of tool deflection. That boring head they're using in the video looks really rigid, and they are only removing like ~0.1mm each side, so I imagine that spring pass that would happen to be next to non-existent.
I'm just speaking from my experience, since we're usually trying to hit the dimension with a single pass to save on cycle time, and depending on the material, that spring pass for us could make a difference of 0.01mm in mild steel (~0.0005") or 0.05mm in stainless (~0.002"), so we're usually using the routine for pulling away to avoid that.
subroutines are great, but most newer machines have a handful of canned cycles just for boring. writing a subroutine would have the same result. IIRC, theres a cycle to orient the spindle and retract a spscific distance in I and J, dwell at the bottom and feed out, feed in and feed out at different rates, feed in and rapid out maybe? probably for spring loaded tools on the rapid out. it's been a while for me, so I don't know them off hand.
as with mosy things, it always depends on the job. is it a short run of one offs? are you trying to shave seconds off a production cycle that rapid is worth risking? is there a surface finish callout? maybe they want a cross hatch on the cylinder walls that an abrasive will touch up minor scuffs afterwards. have pride in your work, but make sure you're not doing unnecessary work for free.
Smooth as Tennessee whiskey, damn good presentation Jesse !
120k views in 5 minutes... machining's futur is bright! Keep it up :) 🤘🏼
Excellent, use of technology.
Can the display be used on multiple bars and does it remember the size of each bar?
Also what happens if the display isn’t removed, can the machine be started?
Pro tip, use a torque wrench to tighten up the lock on the boring Head to get more equal results
If trying to hold a close tolerance AND make the best possible finish, is it still normal practice to bore through the part then feed back out again? Doesn't the tip of the insert cut more material on the way up and/or compromise the finish you produced on the way down?
We use d'Andrea and Sandvik, and I can wholeheartedly say that d'Andrea is way better than Sandvik. I'll have to be making adjustments after every part with the Sandvik and I've never touched the d'Andrea since changing the insert 60 parts ago!
We use big kaiser with a built in digital display
Btw: why no spindlestop and spindleorientation when you reach the final depth and a small offset to get out of the hole?
Sry, english is not my first language
He doesn't know about it)
We all get trapped in our ways sometimes and the simplest thing goes right over our head. In another comment a guy says he uses an indicator to adjust the boring tool in the machine. I do this method all the time for a lot of other tools but for some reason I was a dumbass and never thought of it because there is a dial. Screw the dial, I'll start using the indicator method, it's much more precise.
@@romekkis2776 😂
We use those bar style for roughing and finishing, but I don't think they hold up as well as the older style finish bars
But our bars get used hard.
And I always make my adjustments in the tool setter
But it would be great not having to take the bar out to make the adjustments
You can also use a dial gage on the cutting edge of the boring head to measure for the backlash. 1, Set your boring head. 2, cut a test whole and measure the whole for actual cut settings. 3, set a dial gage on the cutting bar3, 4, final set the boring head and make sure the dial gage readings confirm the radius you are dealing in on the boring head.
I know its cumbersome but certainly doable without breaking the bank.
I could tell he was trying to hold back a smile when the size right off the presetter would have put the part in tolerance. Of course, you don't go straight to size with your presetter, but in this case he totally could have.
It's not that simple exactly. If you already know what material you are boring, and you already know how much stock you are leaving, and you know what the setting needs to be with a certain amount of stock left to have just the right amount of tool pressure... then sure you could offset the number straight from the tool presetter and hit it bang on (Can I justify one of those for my garage? LOL). But that requires the exact thing these tools are meant to fix: You need a specific operator who knows the quirks of the specific tool in a specific material and knows what voodoo numbers to use for a particular job. That's all well and good and in a small shop environment it can work, but not ideal when you need 20 different people to be able to knock out a new random part out of a random material and hit the tolerance the first time.
A way to improve efficiency is to print a QR-code on your tool labels that you can scan directly into the machine's tool set.
Incredible tool. Thank you.
Love your video's!!! But with all the respect, I've been using digital boring heads for over 20 years now. Even the newer generation were you are able to read your size out on your phone. I really hate to ad stuff to tools that rotate at those speeds.
Awesome demo Jessie. Ciao, Marco.
Poor Barry. 😢
this clicking mechanism is awesome.
Does the display ever need to get re-calibrated after so many uses.
how well does it survive being yeeted into enclosure by centrifugal force ?
Poor Barry! I love that boring head, though. Can you say how much it costs?
yeah i wonder if it will cost a kidney :P
Yes we need to know the price.
Thank you for teaching about that very cool tool!
Do newer bore heads still have backlash or is there newer better technology? Seems like they should have covered removing the backlash in the adjustment.
Well seems they do! Was wondering why he didn't mention it on the tool setter.
It sounded like it has backlash but the digital readout won't register movement until you move forward, or rather increase boring diameter.
@@GrumpyMachinist yea i noticed that during the digital adjustments. pretty awesome tech not gunna lie!
Everything has backlash. Backlash isn't your enemy, worn/sloppy ways are. Drunk threads and ignoring the foundations of mechanical accuracy are your enemy.
Also there's no way to fit a ball screw arrangement in that small of a package, without it costing half a million.
Getting accurate results with lots of lash isn't a problem if the ways have propper guidance and no sticktion do to in proper thrust design.
Read foundations of mechanical accuracy and precision hole location by Wayne f Moore.
we have tool setter but it broke about 5 years ago after a blackout
The problem with using a presenter to set boring bars, in my experience, is that the presenter doesn't measure the tool as it's cutting with the cutting pressure on it.
I normally go .002 undersize to be safe and then work my way up. More for sub .0005 tolerances.
Also, alot of boring bar adjustment is in how you tighten the set screw. Everyone has their own way. Kaiserheads aren't as bad but in my shop I rarely see them.
Also spring passes. The nice thing is once a boring bar is dialed, it's dialed.
The digital gauge would help with adjusting it though. You can note where your original adjustment left you and comp for your spring pass on the current and your first pass on future parts separately.
just use the dial. you don't need a 35 000 pre setter
Nice new technology..thanks for sharing..I still use dail indicators..
If your employer won’t buy a boring head like this would putting a clock on your insert do similar job ? With spindle locked in place . Just wondering 💭
Does the display show the true radial movement or is it diameter . Like let’s say you have a 5.0000 hole, the first cut was at 4.995, would it be .0025 or .005 adjustment ? (Not accounting for tool pressure)
According to the video it goes off diameter.
This is just awesome. I can imagine even more tech and automation to ease this process. Still too manual for super efficient production.
You'd be shocked at what those boreheads will do. We, myself and the kid I trained, make .0001 adjustments while feeding an assembly line the old fashioned way, dial tools. It really boils down to keeping it in spec but it's not hard without the digital reader.
Very interesting, not at all boring 🤔
I have a question how does the Haimer Uno know the length of the tool? Is the length of the tool the height of the tool or the diameter of the tool in the offset page for tool geometry?
It's the height. I've never used a tool setter like that but it's a safe assumption there is a machine zero that is set from a standard dimension of a CAT40 tapered holder.
ok but like dial indicator in the shank measuring the tool
I want to learn from you. Boom💖
What are the odds that any machine shop will make a good invesment like that?
Hi, sir we are using Wholehapter Boring head, we are getting same issue.
This is a beautiful tool, but realistically what is the cost of this set up, and how many small shops can afford this?
Yes, it's bordering on offensive to label mechanical boring heads as "obsolete" just because a more convenient option has been developed (probably driven more by marketing than by innovation). These guys are just trying to monetise a sort of fifth column marketing effort, trying to induce the machinist's equivalent of penis envy, and I for one am not particularly interested.
Next step is a WiFi one.
Thanks for the video 😊
i lock the spindle, set up a .00005"indicator anto the head and adjust that way
OMG, I feel like a dumbass. Doh!! I use this method for a bunch of our other tools, I can't believe it went over my head to use this method for an adjustable boring tool.
The problem with this video is that I can’t hit the like button twice.
Did you bore all the way in then all the way out again? Do you not have spindle orientation? Just stop at the bottom, stop spindle, orientate, move off centre then rapid out. Halving the life of the insert doing it your way.
Just to point out, no machinist worth his salt will trust the boring head dial alone. I would always use a dial on the tool as it is adjusted.
That said, it’s a pretty sweet system.
What a a coincidence or what I was doing a part that looks almost the same at work drilled and bored but doing the old fashion way.
i used that setter at Columbia Machine in Vancouver,Wa
I used to live in Vancouver, WA! Ever heard of a company called US Digital?
I was taught to get you real close anyways. Measure the holder flange diameter, then use an indicator and zero it on that, teach your axis as that flange diameter. Then move to your insert and find the highest point and look at your axis that you input the flange diameter to. You should now see what that diameter is. Im sure this sounds confusing.
Big Kaiser did that in like 2011 😬
That's super useful.
Can you test at what rpms it flings off? If it flings off quick it aint no problem :)
If it flings off at 6000rpms than its dangerous but if it flings off at 100 it might be just fine.
Great video .
That is a great feature to have, just don't forget to remove it before you turn it back on. That would be an expensive mistake.
You’d be surprised, our operators forget it time to time and it has held up so far so good
Maybe a little thing for automation.
you are printing a label from the measuring machine.
Then manually typing in that data on the label.
Why not just have the measuring machine print a barcode 1D or 2D and then have a scanner on the mill, to scan said data in. This way you can't make a mistake in typing in said data from the tool
The operator could mess up transferring the length for Z or he could touch it off on the tool eye. I am assuming the program is going off the centerline of the tool so it won’t matter if the operator fat fingers the X and does t double check.
I just used an old Parlec pre setter.
Can you show us, what happens, if you dont pop it off!?
That's something I need
What happens if you forget that on???
Does your machine not have a Fine Boring cycle? G76
Fanuc? I'll have to check it out.
When we are trying to hold a surface finish and a tight tolerance we usually G85 because the bore out helps reduce tool pressure.
LMAO elderly like Barry.. wish I could come from KY and show you the old man luck lol. Great video and great work guys
Set mine using a clock against the bar. Universal solution
Cool and useful gadget!
Good stuff....thanks
Oh hell yeah. I want one 🤩
You can't beat the Germans in this
I understand that you guys are sponsored by kenametal and you review and demonstrate their products, but there is a company called diabore that produce a boring tool with a integrated digital screen that is permanent with the tool and not a separate add on device.
I’ve never used a dial on any boring head, always used a .0001 indicator but then again that was many years ago lol, that’s pretty much all this is though.
Elderly machinist like Barry...LOL 🙂 I am sure he has one for you.
I want to buy this just to somehow adapt it to work with my clapped out knee mill.
Or you could just go back to your presenter and make your adjustments , a lot of us don't have unlimited tooling budgets .
What's Krazy to me all the trial and error to get to this level machinery and craftsmanship impressive...
How do you back up the tool on Z axis once it’s done cutting? So the insert won’t scrape the bore you just cut
You can do that depending on the tool and orientation. In Fanuc we G85. Bore in, bore out, which is what you want to do when trying to hold a surface finish and remove tool pressure. G86 will bore to depth, stop the spindle at depth and rapid out but it will leave a tool mark. However, the tool mark is minimal. You could also G01 in at one feed and feed out at another feed. Most of the time we just G81(feed in, rapid out), like a drill cycle.
Looks like they are back cutting on the way out…..
Dont forget to take the backlash off
sandvik have motorized boring head, you can control it by your smartphone.
It would be nice to have that equipment but we wouldn't use it enough for it to efficiently pay off in the time saved. (*edit* What is extremely affordable? That's certainly a debatable topic when it comes to buying machinines) We set boring tools the old fashioned way... On the surface plate, sweeping the insert to find the high, and adjusting accordingly or in our optical comparator(
Yeah, I sometimes resort to honing, lapping or ballizing when I'm just under a very tight tolerance band.
Always use a Wohlhaupter!!
Hey Mr. Jessie! PLEASE change the insert clamping screw! The overtorqued screw is junk, Mister! I've see'n it at 2'49" and 3'38" (at the haimer screen). It does'nt match to a high tech machine shop with a lot of brand new equipment with high standards...
@1:57 ... Seems to be german precision after all ;)
Nice demo 👍
Bro rpm feed