Because there were so many requests for more info, here’s a link to the rear locker Robert is using on his Outback. (Not sponsored) www.torqmasters.com/torq_locker_tl_r1605b_subaru_r160_five_bolt?fbclid=IwAR0rP3yWMbWs-K57hD4z4o8aCmrO44hV8y-pzCcK6KNl0Kc3qaKvn9dM4zc
It's funny you mention this locker , i had already contacted Torqmasters and was told this particular locker would not fit the 2022 Wilderness ! So who is right and who is wrong . Maybe Robert can give us the right answer on how and about ?
You guys said e locker in the video but this a mechanical lunchbox locker. You will hear a huge pop when it locks and unlocks all the time because the teeth are engaging back and forth.
@@paladain55 It is an autolocker that self engages when challenged. It is designed to be able to ratchet differential speeds between tires under low load conditions, like slow in a parking lot, and this does make a ratcheting clicking noise, as opposed to the loud POP you are describing that is prevelent in other designs.. Off road under challenge this is a very effective tool. And as far as sharp turns into traffic, if you keep it low torque it will ratchet, it you punch it you will chirp your tires. It's a compromise. Databyter
Please somebody (Subaru?) design a switchable rear locker for the Subaru lines. Not sure why this hasn't been done yet. It would sell like hotcakes. Databyter
The lockers for Subarus have been out for nearly 3 years. Unfortunately, they are not very nice to live with for everyday driving with a constant AWD car.
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 It's unfortunate that the USA never got the dual range Subarus that we got here in Australia. I love mine, makes the car so much more capable.
The outback is classified as "wagon/estate" in the US. But this has nothing to do with wagon anymore. This is an offroader. You don't have to try this with real wagons/estates, those are pratical and made for normal roads with good handling/ speed and mpg.
you know what, i think i might do the rear dif also. And as a fellow outback person, i like what he has done and i think outback is a rised up family wagon. because if you lower it like 4 inches or like 10cm, it is going to be like a wagon. because it drives like one.
I'm still not a fan of Subie wagon aesthetics. I don't even like the Levorg. I much prefer the Crosstrek hatch, or the pre-2022 WRXs. That's a personal preference though. Subaru has always been a little "funky", which I like, what with boxer motors, 4WD/AWD cars, unibody pickups, symmetrical AWD, rally cars instead of muscle cars or low sportscaster, etc.
@@MASKOAA False. Why would anyone spend that much more money when they can just buy a quieter, larger Outback? I bought mine to off-road, just need to modify over time.
@@mandingo9471 From what I’ve read this is not a base with a lift. Subaru raised it by using bigger springs and other suspension, not spacers. Check out the underneath at Sarah n used.
I’ve had several lifted Subarus from 2016 FXT to a 2020 Forester Sport. This OB right here, is awesome, and is the way the Wilderness SHOULD have come from the factory. I went 4Runner after my last Forester Sport…and not looking back.
@@darthtyranus7683 I had coolant smells on all of mine as well as engine oil leaks (2) and trans leaks (1) on a few. Just not a quality product anymore.
Subaru reliability ratings would get trashed. With that kind of lift you can expect to change CVs once a year, plus the torq locker + tires would make a fuckton of noise on pavement. The torq locker could potentially fuck with xmode as well. Upgrading yourself is pretty inexpensive and straightforward.
@@norincofan1949 I hear you, but the CV angles can be corrected with subframe spacers, as Robert said the Xmode is not affected, it just works less hard since there is less slippage under some conditions and therefore less to compensate for. As far as noise, yes aggressive tires make noise and an auto locker will make clicking noises at low speeds while making sharp turns. My only concern with them is not having control over when they lock. I mean, if you are on Ice or a slippery pavement or something they would be counter productive right? Apparently they only engage on heavy load tho and so probably would not engage under such conditions unless you were really giving it the beans, and why would you be under those conditions. Then again it is the "Probably" would not engage that bothers me. Id much prefer an electronic solution. Also keep in mind that the CV angles in his lift are only 1" more than factory. That is not much. The wilderness already has compensated for the new height so it is only the extra inch that detracts from the optimum angles. Databyter
Hey thanks again for a comparison video. I actually bought my wilderness based on your last video. It ended up being a literal perfect vehicle for me. Coming stock hybrid for offroading and road driving is perfect. Highly recommend if you are doing basic off roading on forest roads, doing in car camping. Seeing a wilderness hold its own against a 4Runner really made me feel confident, and the amount of bonuses with the vehicle were amazing. Again, thanks for the videos.
The Outback didn’t hold its own against the 4Runner. This video was staged and the drivers are incompetent. The 4Runner and Outback aren’t comparable at all when it comes to off-road capability. The fact that they compared them is a sign of their incompetence.
It’s called a Cherokee trailhawk elite ;-) V6 or awesome turbo 4. 9 speed. Crazy good ratio 4low with locker. Hatchback. Cooled seats. Same 40k. Just sayin
I’d also prefer NA over turbo, I live in mountains but not in high enough elevation for it to put me at a disadvantage. Turbos will always eventually fail and it usually always takes something with it. Plus I’d like a vehicle that doesn’t eat through CV axles and head gaskets.
Great video! Very cool to see what that Wilderness can do with a little work. Still looked like it had a little less finesse over the obstacles due to a lack of low range but aside from that it did everything you could reasonably ask of a basic off-roader. And being that much more refined and poised on road makes it a very compelling vehicle.
theres so much hate on the subaru, like all the jeep warriors are complaining about how the subaru " doesn't compare" and how the 4runner could have done so much better, but honestly I think that the subaru is underrated, I take my stock outback places where my budies in jacked up trucks get stuck and I don't.
Nicely said! I’m told the Honda passport, Kia’s need time to cool their AWD when they spin a bit. Sure the Subaru has limitations but they are a package deal, safe roads, highways, and if you want to get some off Roading you can! Pretty versatile 🏆
Hell yeah! this definitely was a great one. If the outback came with packages from the dealership like this, not only would it be pricey, but i think more people would buy them. just friggin incredible how this guy built his. RESPECTS.
Damn!!! that is seriously a great contender... Love the color and the mods done to the Outback.. Definitely Props to Robert. Thanks for another Awesome video, Ryan...
I went with the 2021 Crosstrek Sport .. 2.5 liter engine at 182 hp .. lifted 2" and put on Toyo All Terrains in a taller profile to have 113/4" at the pumpkin .. also have an aluminum skid plate . The Crosstrek is about 500 lbs lighter and 14" shorter then the Outback .. been to Moab and Death Valley a couple of times and it's doing well traction wise! I also run with traction control off .. X-mode works well going downhill .. don't like the X-mode cutting power and momentum when climbing so I just shut it off. 🤠
@@pablomoreno1999 With traction control off the wheels keep spinning as they are then both open differentials .. and I can keep momentum .. the minute you loose the momentum you’re screwed
The revised CVT and Xmode should better handle these scenarios which previously inhibited crawling performance. The locker featured here really takes it to another level, though.
@@zachv8286 the locker is indeed a gamechanger, but in the case of a standard subaru. Where the cvt just doesn't send enough power not even to spin the wheels sometimes. The locker wouldn't be that efficient ... there's no point of locking the wheels together if none of them get torque to work with in the first place...
@@pablomoreno1999 It's not the CVT that stops the wheels from spinning. It's the TCS. With a locker in the rear, the TCS doesn't have to clamp the brakes on and cut engine power as much. Note: Newer Subies with Dual-Function X-Mode are allowed by the TCS to spin more in setting 2.
Where is Robert's channel?? That car looks and performs great. I've watched much less interesting vehicles for sure and Robert looked as comfortable as a news anchor. Love this type of content. Keep these coming, DSTV! edit: I enjoy the sound quality. Stock engine sounds come through clearly.
Hp doesn’t matter for trails, tourque matters. In 4lo, it is multiplied, and with the automatic, the tourque converter doubles the tourque. It could climb vertical without issues, if it had traction.
You’re absolutely correct John! Even with a turbo, and even if boost happens down low, it still takes considerable time to get from that 800 rpm idle to whatever boost engages. I personally drive a 2019 Honda Passport with a 20.4:1 crawl ratio. I’ve been to the 13.1K Imogene pass trail and didnt notice any difference driving at sea level at low speeds. I’m sure I’d notice a difference at wide open throttle, but…. that’s just not how you drive on a 4WD trail. A 4runner with a 34:1 crawl ratio will have zero issue, and a Jeep Wrangler rubicon geared 80:1 won’t even skip a beat. Our older Hondas that are geared closer to the Subaru Outback wilderness were huffing and puffing and needed to be towed up by our Jeeps.
@@estebanjr11 This appears to be true in tests. Sarah n tuned tried both Outback Wilderness and Forrester Wilderness and Forrester could climb what Outback could not. Maybe weight and wheel span.
@Bill Brown They are auto lockers. You have no control over when they come on other than the fact that they come on under periods of increased load, so in a sense you could create that load by increasing your throttle, and maybe even a bit of brake. It's great, but it controls itself.
I think the Crosstrek is a better platform for offroading. The 2.5L was a step in the right direction. I can't wait to see the Wilderness Crosstrek. Even better if it's a 2.4T.
@@JS-qi1ou it kind of depends on what part, with some parts on subarus as long as you can prove whatever mod you did, did not cause whatever problem you are having then it will not be considered void (not warranty advice)
@@jake-mv5oi literally zero stock AWD will make it through. You need 12 inches of ground clearance if you want to do the whole thing, not just the first 2 miles. But even with the first 2 miles, most stock AWDs will lose the front bumper.
I really love seeing your 4Runner videos. I appreciate the work you do in making them. That Subaru was really nice but definitely with the wilderness package and suspension/differential upgrade it is not cheap and more than the 4Runner but it’s nice to know you have options.
@David Xereria or you could learn to drive without having to slam on the gas pedal and quit acting like your drive to work is a NASCAR race. EV is horrible and the US infrastructure doesn't support it. Ask for it in 40 years.
Not true on the price. MSRP vs MSRP, the 4runner TRD-Pro starts $4k higher than the Outback wilderness. The Torque Locker added to the wilderness is maybe another $1k total. Add another $1k to $1.5k for the 1" lift. I'm including paying someone to do the work in those prices. The outback is still a couple thousand cheaper.
@@Offshore1977 I got the name wrong, but the price right. TRD Off Road starts at $4k+ more than the Outback Wilderness. 2023 Subaru Outback Wilderness is MSRP $39,960 and can be had for a couple thousand less (using VIP pricing). 2023 Toyota 4Runner shows an MSRP of $44,000. Plus the 4Runner is not going to be found lower than MSRP.
The Subbie did better than expected, in fact I think it did better than any independent suspension rig without a 2 speed transfer case could expect to do. However I still don't think it can get you farther than a 4runner Off-road. Yeah, I know, with momentum Subbies can go far, but momentum is not always the answer, when it's your daily driver. Looks like that 4runner is back from the body shop. Great vid!
@@axpx6666 Ryans 4R could have easily made it up the last obstacle and I was a little miffed that he didn’t attempt it. It’s as if he wanted the Subie to win. Yes the modded subie is super capable, but it’s not a rock crawler. If Ryan spent half as much money in mods as the smug guy in the subie, he could raise his truck 2 inches and install larger tires. Then what would you subie people say? “But my Subaru gets 21 mpg in the city and it handles like a corvette”. Subie folks are an interesting bunch. They buy rugged looking Honda civics and think they’re high performance street machines, and gods gift to off-roading all at the same time, when in fact it’s just usually people who are afraid of going all in and just buying the right car. That’s how you end up with a subie. “Subaru, because you want to look extreme but you’re really just kind of practical”.
2:55 the auto locker is a Detroit style ratchet. It has an internal plate that allows the pushed wheel to break the ratchet open when moving faster than the carrier but will not allow it to spin slower. The plate shifts with carrier rotation so that no output shaft can spin slower than it but either can rotate faster as the pushed wheel and disengage the output.
Just depends on input torque whether it locks or unlocks. More torque > more outward force on the cam from the cross-pin > more force overcoming spring pressure, & holding the dogs together keeping the axles spooled together.
@@jake-mv5oi actually, input torque has nothing to do with it. So long as the inside wheel can hold that torque the road will force that output to advance faster than the carrier which triggers the ramping plate to disconnect the dog clutch. . Detroit style lockers do not work off torque and prevent either output from rotating slower than the carrier. Either output can always rotate faster under their own power. It’s pure rpm based which makes it excellent off road as it doesn’t need to generate lockup forces off traction.
Thats all true for a Detroit. The torq locker is not Detroit style though. Different design with fewer parts. On the torq locker, the only thing in play is the cross-pin pushing against the cam to push the dogs together and keep it locked up. Maybe dogs is not the correct term on a torq locker, because the ones on the torq locker do not pull each other together with torque, but rather try to unseat each other as the axle is turned. The higher force of the cam overcomes that tendency and keeps it locked.
@@jake-mv5oi it has different parts, but still operated in the same manner. When ground forces accelerate a wheel faster than the carrier speed it unlocks its dog clutch to allow it to free spin. Once at the same rpm it will reengage and prevent it from spinning slower which is when it transfers torque. . The drive pin’s job is to orient the cam mechanism which is different than a Detroit but provides the same operation so that the ratchet works in both directions. . It still requires zero torque(above what it takes to reorient the cam) to operate and it doesn’t matter how much input torque is being applied, either wheel can be unlocked when ground forces rotate the wheel faster than the carrier. Their website claims this is accomplished with less than the strength of a finger. . It’s still a Detroit style locker. Just like helical gear differentials are still torsen style even though they might only use helical gears instead of torsen’s helical/spur combo idler gears. . It is true that the more input torque means the harder the dogs are compressed, but it’s not equal on both sides, once the ground forces accelerate the wheel that sides cam disengages and allows it to free spin faster. So input torque doesn’t lock up the outputs, but is used to prevent the outputs from rotating slower.
I understand you guys are not rock crawlers, but I guarantee the 4-runner could have made that last obstacle, and would have loved to see the Subaru attempt it.
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD too conservative - but must 4runner owners are. This feature is like a '2' rating where a stock 4runner can easily take on a '3-4' rated trail
One of the best comparison reviews that I've seen. This is the way the Outback Wilderness should have come from the factory. I bet the Outback with mods is still less money than the four runner. I'd buy it!
I had a 2018 Subaru Outback with the last of the 3.6. I put a 2" ADF spacer lift on it. It was just fine for most of these things you're doing here. It got us loaded down with 4 adults, a dog, and a Thule Motion XL XXL on the top up to the Stargazer Yurt in ID with 6-10" of snow on the few miles up. Even two hunters left their 4x4 pickup at the trailhead and walked. When we passed them, one of them was cheering me on screaming up the hill and the other had a look of dumbfoundedness, or so my passengers said. I was quite focused on the road. Then I moved to CO, now I own a Jeep. The Subaru AWD system was second to none, best vehicle in the snow I've ever owned. It was pretty comfortable on long road trips. I got 27mpg before the lift and larger tires. After, I think I got about 24-25mpg per tank. The Jeep wins hands down though. I heard someone once say, "I want a vehicle to get me to camp sites that Subaru's and camper vans can't get to. I love my Jeep.
@@Goadvtr I just pasted off what I found on an article about him and his rig cause people asked about his list. Can say if it was accurate or not. Don't know the guy
I think if I could only choose one, I would pick the 4runner. I really do like the Outback but I keep reading bad things about reliability. Toyota seems to hold its value well and be a more reliable choice than most other manufacturers.
@@ReubenHorner The new ones aren't made with Toyota. Toyota only used their D4S (direct and port fuel injection) on the BRZ/86, maybe looked over the engine but did not co-develop. The engine in a non BRZ are completely Subaru, and direct injection only.
Subaru is #1 in resale value in North America. Subarus are reliable if you understand how to drive their engines, they are more susceptible to driver error, where as Toyotas are just bomb proof. I frequent on Subaru forums, and 90% of the reliability complaints are driver error that they refuse to admit. Subarus, especially turbo ones, do not like low rev acceleration, that's when it blows, so when you drive aggressively in an automatic, manually shift down before you step on the gas. Automatics don't downshift enough, that goes for any brand.
All this really showed was that any vehicle with a locker, ground clearance, and tires can pretty much do any trail you want. I predict his cvt will last long though.
Enjoyed the episode. When will Subaru build a trail worthy Outback such as Robert has done, from the factory? It would be popular, I am sure there is a market for one or a new model perhaps.
the 4 runner in the hands of a capable driver would have walked up where you turned around. Also the lack of a low range transfer case and proper gearing will severely limit the subi. So no it cannot do anything the 4runner can. That trail was really mild.
Showing LOVE for the channel and I've gotta admit I'm beyond impressed with the Subaru outback wilderness I am in the market for a vehicle I've looked at Jeeps 4Runners and I've got to admit with the left and everything that this guy has done with this Subaru I am sold for my daily commutes and yes I do like traveling here in East Tennessee in the beautiful Appalachian mountains and on these fire roads that we have I am just bedazzled at the Subaru now my wife hands down once a 4Runner there is no as if bus about it TRD off-road package that is what my wife wants and that's what my wife will get hate to think she wouldn't but i Absolutely LOVED this video point blank thank you and have a Blessed day everyone
I don’t see how this was deemed a tie, when we all know the 4Runner could of kept going and going with the Subaru watching from a distance. Good effort for the Subaru though.
This. The 4Runner is an off-road legend. The Suburu is a decent off-roading vehicle. You won't be overlanding as much in a Subaru as you will in a 4Runner.
i completely disagree, while i think that yes the 4runner could keep going the outback could do MUCH more than they showed in the video. I have seen some of these lifted subarus with lockers do insane stuff and this was nowhere near the limit
Very nice Outback. . . I will say this, there is no "comparison" in this video because neither vehicle was pushed anywhere near its limit. The limit was in the driver's seat. With an extremely competent driver in each vehicle and the wherewithal to find the limits, there would have been no "tie". The 4Runner would have been vastly better on the rocks and the 'baru would be the king of the gravel road and maybe the daily driver. That said, the lunchbox locker in the Outback is an interesting concept and it would be fun to see how much it can take both on and off pavement.
Awesome! I would have never thought Robert Champion would be in something like this..awesome dude! I met you like 15 years ago at a Rally Event in NJ. Always pop up somewhere in my feed. Keep going man 🤙
@@wtDrake Ive had my car for going on 2 years. I decided to keep my XT though as I rarely go offroad. Its nice that we have people who can judge you on the internet though.
I'm from Colorado.. now based in western Washington.. I'm also a 4runner offroad driver... have had and drove Subarus.. this is one of the nicest Subarus I've seen. And it's nice to see how well it does when modified to that level.. 😊 although I probably won't rush out to get a Subaru again.. maybe when my youngest child is ready for a car.. a Subaru like that will be in the works.
Locker with the Subaru is amazing, even better is the CVT not overheating with the adding cooling. Overall just a few changes makes a world of difference in capability and reliability.
+1 for the CVT cooler mod, even for a stock Outback, I think this makes sense to mod. The additional heat removal should be beneficial for extending the life expectancy ... and allowing it to stay out of "self-protect mode" longer, when you need it to do its thing.
So Proud to see the 4 Runner I sold Ryan in all the videos....AWESOME!!! I'm not GURU and I was just the guy doing the paperwork but still glad to feel like I'm a part of this. Let's go 4 Runner!!! :)
Very cool face off and that modified outback is rad, although, to be fair, the 4runner is still certainly better "out of the box." Going that deep on mods on a vehicle that already costs 40,000+ in stock form is daunting. Beautiful car though. Better daily driver and more feature rich.
@@adamrandaustin No, it does not. I paid $35K for my 4runner OffRoad in 2018 which is comparable if not less than adequately equipped outback. Plus all those upgrades.
Kudos to the 3 of you on a well played video! Great shots, clear audio and even some nice soft background music. Where can I get the full lowdown on the exact mods Robert used to upgrade his Wilderness? Availability and costs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much, guys, on great content for a wannabe owner of a Wilderness type vehicle, that can also tow a small camper, with which to “explore” my bucket list in retirement.
The body on frame construction and four low transfer case really make the four runner a winner here. The Subaru is cool, but if both vehicles were given a regular diet of trails like this the Subaru wouldn’t last. I don’t have a dog in this fight, as I am not a fanboy of either. The Subaru is great for occasional rough use as it’s built, but I wouldn’t want to deal with that auto locker in the rear in snowy and icy weather or daily driving for that matter. Selectable lockers are definitely the way to go for a street driven car.
Let's be real. A stock Subaru Outback/Crosstrek/Forester (mechanically, basically the same thing) is capable of far more than 99% of people will ever put it through. The same goes for a 4Runner. I see off-road tests like this as reassurance that my Subaru will be able to handle anything the Northeastern winters and the occasional unmaintained trail to a hike/camp spot in the will throw at me. Putting some BFG K02's on it next week and stoked.
Your channel deserves at least 5 million subscribers.I would say one of the best channels for cars I the whole TH-cam video thing, if not the best.Support them guys!
Excellent video, and very much impressed with the Outback Wilderness from the factory - but this setup definitely takes it to a new level with more capability; not getting rid of my 4Runner quite yet though... ;)
Subaru's whole existence is based on its supposed advanced AWD systems. It feels like it would be in their interest to actually make something that is really off-road capable like this Outback.
The Outback and Outback Wilderness, in particular, are indeed off road capable. These mods just enhance that capability. I’d love to see the locker come installed from the factory, though.
some older outbacks could do that as well with lift and locker. mine is 3.0 , 7cm lifted. 11' ground clearance. every day car , shoping and such.. fun car too.
I used to want a 4Runner, and still love them. I ended up buying an outback because I wanted better gas milage. Since it's my daily/commuter, I had to sacrifice some off road capability. Maybe one day I can buy a second car as a dedicated off road vehicle. Something like a wrangler Rubicon or 4 runner TRD pro.
Honestly, looking at the price of 4Runners right now was enough to dissuade me from getting a 4Runner. I'm not paying $50,000 for such a dated and utilitarian vehicle.
@God Emperor of Mankind dated. Lmfao modern designs are crap and overthought. The engine in that 4Runner will last 400k miles. Whatever you buy will be lucky to last half of that.
I am very interested to see what the Wilderness brings with the next generation of vehicles. Are they just going to consider it good or will they continue to refine the drivetrain features. Seeing something like the torq locker on it would be very cool.
They're just going to keep it as is. Subarus aren't meant for that crazy offroading for need of lockers. They see their cars as just something for the outdoors and hitting some small trails
In the Subaru instruction manual : NOT FOR OFF-ROAD USE. It's not the lift or tires, its the bushings, the size of the bolts, the architecture of the suspension, the strength of all the underpinnings on a truck you just simply don't get with a car.
I really hope y’all got a few more challenged filmed. Would like to see a dirt-hill climb, some off-set wheels, etc. all the goodies. Real good stuff here.
That guy modded the Subaru well but I would still opt for the 4runner as you can tell the 4runner is still more capable as the Subaru did raise some wheels where the 4runner didn't but still excellent for a car/suv
No way. I don't blame you guys for not wanting to tear up personal vehicles. Me on the other hand loves it. First time I took my '18 Outback up a bunny hill like that I broke it. Few parts later we went up a way harder rocky trail. Broke it even worse and the body damage is just a reminder of what a great day we had. Many parts later, this thing will get you there. Dang thing squeaks worse than a 78 Celica though.
This is a fun video. I am impressed with what the after market offers and improves the capability of vehicles. This Subaru climbed effortlessly what many traditional trucks and suvs could not.
I will be that guy. Are we really comparing a unibody non low range, to a 4runner🧐? I own both a 2016 3.6R and 2019 4rnr. Hate to mention but the 4rnr tested is stock, tires and all so are we doing an apples to apple comparison? “Jealous of your buddy with a 2k lift fitted to his ride clearance?” GREAT REVIEW AND AWESOME SUBARU! But for the truth remains that the two are not even close in comparison.
YASSSSSSSS!!! Super interested in both that suspension and locker! 14:15 So now you rally race? Or do we check back in 100k for a maintenance report? And what do you think of my take that the Lexus GX is the missing link between them?
GX is just a fancier looking 4R. Same drivetrain. Just different interior and exterior. And I agree that they didn’t even try. The prior test involved a steep, rutted uphill climb. Nothing remotely close on this easy trail.
The locker itself is about $500, labour depends on shop and area, for trucks/SUVs would probably average $1000 just for labour, I'm assuming it would be the same for a Subaru.
Very interesting head to head. Really impressed with the Scubie. Looks like it can handle 99% of trails but the lack of low range would make me nervous for longevity. If it's meant to be an overland vehicle capable of occasional trails it's fine, but if it's something you do often you will most likely see accelerated wear and tear to the drive line on the Subaru.
That's how I see mine personally, good daily and good snow handling and *can* go off roading if it's required, the gas mileage isn't bad either in their flat 6.
There's definitely cars that are better in every category, more comfortable dailies, better mileage, better off-roading..definitely better towing, but I like one that can do about whatever I ask of it.
Nice rig. I''m considering an Outback as a second car. My 3rd Gen 4runner limited(elocker) is a beast and get me through the woods and reservations in Northern AZ. Terrain is just like this down to desert. 2 inch lift with bilsteins and KO2s is all I have and it eats up trails like this. However, no armor so I would have stopped where they did. I'm constantly impressed what it can do with the most minor mods.
Nice Outback! love the capability it has. Building something like that I worry about all the little spacers and longer hoses and linkages and whatnots that the extra lift and articulation bring stress to. I'm a newbie researching and I haven't found a good Subaru off road shop that I trust yet (Albuquerque area, but willing to drive a bit to find one) as I'm not experienced enough for DIY.
Ryan, good luck buddy, it looks like the wilderness did ok....I have the wilderness in the geyser blue. Subaru did a wonderful job in producing this vehicle. Toyota is a fantastic vehicle as well. Nice job....this is my favorite video
Very curious what trail you’re on. Would love to see this outback on some of the tougher trails in Colorado. Thinking Slaughterhouse Gulch, Barbour Fork, or Red Cone. Done them all in a stock Lexus GX470.
The 3%/1000ft rule applies to the gross engine power before all internal losses at the engine, which are static for a given RPM. At 9-10K ft elevation, you probably have closer to 170HP in the 4runner. Not that it matters with low-range on a trail like this, but still... something for car buyers in colorado to keep in mind. We love our turbo volvo's, which have enough absolute pressure compensation headroom in their systems for ~5-6K ft elevation before they start to lose any power.
GX460 loves the tough stuff. KDSS disconnects sways off road, then back on again during on road turns. Max articulation... 4runner could've made it through that last part in this video. But I understand Ryan's reasoning. The Subaru wins with gas mileage thats for sure. Overall, nice comparison. Next time I think both vehicles can make it past where they stopped...
Our Toyota's are not known for their excellent MPG. Lol. I am jealous of your V8. But I am also jealous of a rig like this Outback and his 20 mpg city. Lol
We have a 2013 4Runner Trail and a 2015 Forester XT. Both excel at different tasks. The 4Runner with the KDSS, crawl control, and skid plates is more than adequate for the jeep trails that we use. The Forester's AWD system is much better on snow and ice but the CVT and lack of low range and skid plates keep this vehicle on decent roads. Also have to say that the tires that came with both vehicles were mediocre at best. High quality AT rubber makes a huge difference when off roading and less likely to get punctured.
Nah, you ain't taking that Subaru everywhere my 4Runner TRD has been in Alaska and the only thing I changed was the tires, cuz they sucked in the deep snow and ice. Dont judge the capability of a 4Runner on this video alone.
Taking a 4runner over an outback any day lol. Those obstacles were pretty easy honestly. A 4Runner is 4WD and not AWD, so just because of that alone it is a better off roader without adding in all of its tech.
I have a 2017 subaru crosstrek with falken wildpeak trail AT's and it is a monster in the snow, mud, sand, and going over large rocks. I wish subaru came out with a wilderness model for the trek it's super capable.
The Runner would have made it over that section without any issue. The Subaru may have too. If you want to test the offroad capability of vehicles you need drivers that aren't afraid to scratch the skid plates.
@ Driving Sports TV I'm getting a Subaru outback and want some advice on the mods I see here and how to make it better for getting me to trailheads. I also want to know more about what you did to the outback and how it affected fuel milliage, I really enjoy your videos. Thank you. Your videos helped me decide what vehicle to get for my lifestyle.
Because there were so many requests for more info, here’s a link to the rear locker Robert is using on his Outback. (Not sponsored) www.torqmasters.com/torq_locker_tl_r1605b_subaru_r160_five_bolt?fbclid=IwAR0rP3yWMbWs-K57hD4z4o8aCmrO44hV8y-pzCcK6KNl0Kc3qaKvn9dM4zc
It's funny you mention this locker , i had already contacted Torqmasters and was told this particular locker would not fit the 2022 Wilderness ! So who is right and who is wrong . Maybe Robert can give us the right answer on how and about ?
@@alainbrouillette7740 it is modified in a Colorado shop
You guys said e locker in the video but this a mechanical lunchbox locker. You will hear a huge pop when it locks and unlocks all the time because the teeth are engaging back and forth.
@@paladain55 It is an autolocker that self engages when challenged. It is designed to be able to ratchet differential speeds between tires under low load conditions, like slow in a parking lot, and this does make a ratcheting clicking noise, as opposed to the loud POP you are describing that is prevelent in other designs.. Off road under challenge this is a very effective tool. And as far as sharp turns into traffic, if you keep it low torque it will ratchet, it you punch it you will chirp your tires. It's a compromise. Databyter
Please somebody (Subaru?) design a switchable rear locker for the Subaru lines. Not sure why this hasn't been done yet. It would sell like hotcakes. Databyter
Biggest skill: Knowing when to stop and not exceed your equipments' ability or the drivers. Finally, a locker on the Subby. This is a game changer.
The lockers for Subarus have been out for nearly 3 years. Unfortunately, they are not very nice to live with for everyday driving with a constant AWD car.
@@procrastinator1842 I can be slow on the uptake. Thanks for the heads up on everyday driving.
No a game changer on a Subaru would be a low range and a traditional automatic transmission.
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 Truth
@@haroldbeauchamp3770 It's unfortunate that the USA never got the dual range Subarus that we got here in Australia. I love mine, makes the car so much more capable.
That’s a clean looking Outback, props to Robert
The outback is classified as "wagon/estate" in the US. But this has nothing to do with wagon anymore. This is an offroader.
You don't have to try this with real wagons/estates, those are pratical and made for normal roads with good handling/ speed and mpg.
you know what, i think i might do the rear dif also. And as a fellow outback person, i like what he has done and i think outback is a rised up family wagon.
because if you lower it like 4 inches or like 10cm, it is going to be like a wagon. because it drives like one.
I just ordered thst Outback super happy to see these upgrades. They are exactly what I was looking for.
Clean looking Outback? There's no such thing.
The stance of the Outback looks much better with aftermarket parts
Completely. Light years better. I'm going to do mine exactly like this one.
Yup. No longer hearse-like.
Got mine lifted 2in from lp adventure and the same wheels and tires. Got to say look better and not a boring outback haha. Just need that locker...
I'm still not a fan of Subie wagon aesthetics. I don't even like the Levorg. I much prefer the Crosstrek hatch, or the pre-2022 WRXs. That's a personal preference though.
Subaru has always been a little "funky", which I like, what with boxer motors, 4WD/AWD cars, unibody pickups, symmetrical AWD, rally cars instead of muscle cars or low sportscaster, etc.
@@victorrubio9085 I’m getting one soon, want to throw rims and tires on asap to fix that stance! What’s the wheel/tire sizes you installed?
Someone from Subaru should watch this video and see how much difference adding a simple locker would make.
While yes you are right less then a fraction of a percent buy a Subaru for this purpose….. it actually isn’t a good investment for them.
@@MASKOAA If that were true they never would've released a wilderness version in the first place.
@@wswatson I almost guarantee the majority of the sales for the wilderness edition won't see more offroading than a curb just like most jeep owners.
@@MASKOAA False. Why would anyone spend that much more money when they can just buy a quieter, larger Outback? I bought mine to off-road, just need to modify over time.
@@mandingo9471 From what I’ve read this is not a base with a lift. Subaru raised it by using bigger springs and other suspension, not spacers. Check out the underneath at Sarah n used.
The 4runner is just a timeless piece, no matter what gen.
Agreed - as is the Outback. This was a fun matchup.
I'm digging the look of that Outback. The additional lift and bigger tires definitely give it a more rugged appearance
But lift your Outback reasonably. Some people were complaining about handling while driving over 80mph on the highway.
I’ve had several lifted Subarus from 2016 FXT to a 2020 Forester Sport. This OB right here, is awesome, and is the way the Wilderness SHOULD have come from the factory. I went 4Runner after my last Forester Sport…and not looking back.
Same I've had way too much coolant leaks on my Subies more than once on two different outbacks and on a STI as well
@@darthtyranus7683 I had coolant smells on all of mine as well as engine oil leaks (2) and trans leaks (1) on a few. Just not a quality product anymore.
Subaru reliability ratings would get trashed. With that kind of lift you can expect to change CVs once a year, plus the torq locker + tires would make a fuckton of noise on pavement. The torq locker could potentially fuck with xmode as well. Upgrading yourself is pretty inexpensive and straightforward.
@@norincofan1949 I hear you, but the CV angles can be corrected with subframe spacers, as Robert said the Xmode is not affected, it just works less hard since there is less slippage under some conditions and therefore less to compensate for. As far as noise, yes aggressive tires make noise and an auto locker will make clicking noises at low speeds while making sharp turns. My only concern with them is not having control over when they lock. I mean, if you are on Ice or a slippery pavement or something they would be counter productive right? Apparently they only engage on heavy load tho and so probably would not engage under such conditions unless you were really giving it the beans, and why would you be under those conditions. Then again it is the "Probably" would not engage that bothers me. Id much prefer an electronic solution. Also keep in mind that the CV angles in his lift are only 1" more than factory. That is not much. The wilderness already has compensated for the new height so it is only the extra inch that detracts from the optimum angles. Databyter
Forester Sport is a pile of junk. Can’t even climb a molehill 😂😂😂 good thing you switched teams. YOTA gang 🤙🏾
Hey thanks again for a comparison video. I actually bought my wilderness based on your last video. It ended up being a literal perfect vehicle for me. Coming stock hybrid for offroading and road driving is perfect. Highly recommend if you are doing basic off roading on forest roads, doing in car camping. Seeing a wilderness hold its own against a 4Runner really made me feel confident, and the amount of bonuses with the vehicle were amazing. Again, thanks for the videos.
The Outback didn’t hold its own against the 4Runner. This video was staged and the drivers are incompetent. The 4Runner and Outback aren’t comparable at all when it comes to off-road capability. The fact that they compared them is a sign of their incompetence.
If Subaru offered a similar package, and added a proper 8+ speed transmission, it would be the perfect daily for me.
I wouldn’t mind an 8 speed, but the improved version in the Wilderness is actually quite good.
It’s called a Cherokee trailhawk elite ;-)
V6 or awesome turbo 4. 9 speed. Crazy good ratio 4low with locker. Hatchback. Cooled seats. Same 40k. Just sayin
@@thomaskrutulis2289 With the "legendary" reliability
I’d also prefer NA over turbo, I live in mountains but not in high enough elevation for it to put me at a disadvantage. Turbos will always eventually fail and it usually always takes something with it. Plus I’d like a vehicle that doesn’t eat through CV axles and head gaskets.
@@JS-qi1ou modem factory turbos are built for longevity and rarely cause problems. Also, head gaskets in modern Subarus aren’t a concern.
Great video! Very cool to see what that Wilderness can do with a little work. Still looked like it had a little less finesse over the obstacles due to a lack of low range but aside from that it did everything you could reasonably ask of a basic off-roader. And being that much more refined and poised on road makes it a very compelling vehicle.
no, all "basic off-roaders" have 4LO, that's one of the criteria.
@@matthewschiebout7384 we’ll have to agree to disagree on the use of the term.
@@matthewschiebout7384 If you have enough torque at low RPM you do not really need it, and those boxer engines have good low end torque.
@@matthewschiebout7384clearly not if it's done time and time again, Subaru just has the best AWD system
theres so much hate on the subaru, like all the jeep warriors are complaining about how the subaru " doesn't compare" and how the 4runner could have done so much better, but honestly I think that the subaru is underrated, I take my stock outback places where my budies in jacked up trucks get stuck and I don't.
Nicely said! I’m told the Honda passport, Kia’s need time to cool their AWD when they spin a bit. Sure the Subaru has limitations but they are a package deal, safe roads, highways, and if you want to get some off Roading you can! Pretty versatile 🏆
Those are really some great upgrades on the Outback. Awesome video!
Hell yeah! this definitely was a great one. If the outback came with packages from the dealership like this, not only would it be pricey, but i think more people would buy them. just friggin incredible how this guy built his. RESPECTS.
Damn!!! that is seriously a great contender... Love the color and the mods done to the Outback.. Definitely Props to Robert.
Thanks for another Awesome video, Ryan...
This will become your most watched video Ryan! Thumbs up for that Outback, if I could order one like this from Subaru, I would in an instant.
I went with the 2021 Crosstrek Sport .. 2.5 liter engine at 182 hp .. lifted 2" and put on Toyo All Terrains in a taller profile to have 113/4" at the pumpkin .. also have an aluminum skid plate . The Crosstrek is about 500 lbs lighter and 14" shorter then the Outback .. been to Moab and Death Valley a couple of times and it's doing well traction wise! I also run with traction control off .. X-mode works well going downhill .. don't like the X-mode cutting power and momentum when climbing so I just shut it off. 🤠
And how does the CVT cope when you lift wheels or go up the steeper stuff?
@@pablomoreno1999 With traction control off the wheels keep spinning as they are then both open differentials .. and I can keep momentum .. the minute you loose the momentum you’re screwed
The revised CVT and Xmode should better handle these scenarios which previously inhibited crawling performance. The locker featured here really takes it to another level, though.
@@zachv8286 the locker is indeed a gamechanger, but in the case of a standard subaru. Where the cvt just doesn't send enough power not even to spin the wheels sometimes. The locker wouldn't be that efficient ... there's no point of locking the wheels together if none of them get torque to work with in the first place...
@@pablomoreno1999 It's not the CVT that stops the wheels from spinning. It's the TCS. With a locker in the rear, the TCS doesn't have to clamp the brakes on and cut engine power as much.
Note: Newer Subies with Dual-Function X-Mode are allowed by the TCS to spin more in setting 2.
Where is Robert's channel?? That car looks and performs great. I've watched much less interesting vehicles for sure and Robert looked as comfortable as a news anchor.
Love this type of content. Keep these coming, DSTV!
edit: I enjoy the sound quality. Stock engine sounds come through clearly.
He was really good on camera!
Can't get enough of these videos. Thanks Ryan! What trail was that?
Hp doesn’t matter for trails, tourque matters. In 4lo, it is multiplied, and with the automatic, the tourque converter doubles the tourque. It could climb vertical without issues, if it had traction.
You’re absolutely correct John! Even with a turbo, and even if boost happens down low, it still takes considerable time to get from that 800 rpm idle to whatever boost engages. I personally drive a 2019 Honda Passport with a 20.4:1 crawl ratio. I’ve been to the 13.1K Imogene pass trail and didnt notice any difference driving at sea level at low speeds. I’m sure I’d notice a difference at wide open throttle, but…. that’s just not how you drive on a 4WD trail.
A 4runner with a 34:1 crawl ratio will have zero issue, and a Jeep Wrangler rubicon geared 80:1 won’t even skip a beat. Our older Hondas that are geared closer to the Subaru Outback wilderness were huffing and puffing and needed to be towed up by our Jeeps.
6:54 transmission speed stall
This is why I think the wilderness forester with its lower gearing is actually a better choice than the outback but hey “MoRe pOwEr bEtTeR”
@@estebanjr11 This appears to be true in tests. Sarah n tuned tried both Outback Wilderness and Forrester Wilderness and Forrester could climb what Outback could not. Maybe weight and wheel span.
@@estebanjr11 Maybe but dam is it a pain on the road, the Forester is on life support there.
So cool to see a locker on an outback, gives me ideas for my crosstrek
@Bill Brown They are auto lockers. You have no control over when they come on other than the fact that they come on under periods of increased load, so in a sense you could create that load by increasing your throttle, and maybe even a bit of brake. It's great, but it controls itself.
You also void your warranty so make sure you are outside of the factory warranty before modding your Subaru
I think the Crosstrek is a better platform for offroading. The 2.5L was a step in the right direction. I can't wait to see the Wilderness Crosstrek. Even better if it's a 2.4T.
@@JS-qi1ou it kind of depends on what part, with some parts on subarus as long as you can prove whatever mod you did, did not cause whatever problem you are having then it will not be considered void (not warranty advice)
I say all 3 of us take on the entire 9 miles of Fins N Things 😃. Let’s make it happen Ryan and Robert ☺️. It’ll be a good comparison.
Most anything could make it through fins n things.
@@jake-mv5oi literally zero stock AWD will make it through. You need 12 inches of ground clearance if you want to do the whole thing, not just the first 2 miles. But even with the first 2 miles, most stock AWDs will lose the front bumper.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring no.
@@jake-mv5oi says the guy with a lifted XJ Cherokee 4WD
I really love seeing your 4Runner videos. I appreciate the work you do in making them. That Subaru was really nice but definitely with the wilderness package and suspension/differential upgrade it is not cheap and more than the 4Runner but it’s nice to know you have options.
@David Xereria or you could learn to drive without having to slam on the gas pedal and quit acting like your drive to work is a NASCAR race. EV is horrible and the US infrastructure doesn't support it. Ask for it in 40 years.
Not true on the price. MSRP vs MSRP, the 4runner TRD-Pro starts $4k higher than the Outback wilderness. The Torque Locker added to the wilderness is maybe another $1k total. Add another $1k to $1.5k for the 1" lift. I'm including paying someone to do the work in those prices. The outback is still a couple thousand cheaper.
@@weatherornotsubaru this is not a TRD Pro. It’s a TRD Off Road. Again, the Subaru is more.
@@Offshore1977 I got the name wrong, but the price right. TRD Off Road starts at $4k+ more than the Outback Wilderness.
2023 Subaru Outback Wilderness is MSRP $39,960 and can be had for a couple thousand less (using VIP pricing).
2023 Toyota 4Runner shows an MSRP of $44,000. Plus the 4Runner is not going to be found lower than MSRP.
The Subbie did better than expected, in fact I think it did better than any independent suspension rig without a 2 speed transfer case could expect to do. However I still don't think it can get you farther than a 4runner Off-road. Yeah, I know, with momentum Subbies can go far, but momentum is not always the answer, when it's your daily driver. Looks like that 4runner is back from the body shop. Great vid!
I'm guessing this was filmed prior to the last one. Considering they are both in the Denver area I'm doubting he took too trips.
lol. It made it exactly as far as the 4Runner did, while using half as much fuel
@@axpx6666 I bet it used just as much with all of the Mods.
@@axpx6666 I didn't say it did poorly. I just think a 4runner TRD off-road in 4lo will go farther on most up hill rutted tracks than a Subbie.
@@axpx6666 Ryans 4R could have easily made it up the last obstacle and I was a little miffed that he didn’t attempt it. It’s as if he wanted the Subie to win. Yes the modded subie is super capable, but it’s not a rock crawler. If Ryan spent half as much money in mods as the smug guy in the subie, he could raise his truck 2 inches and install larger tires. Then what would you subie people say? “But my Subaru gets 21 mpg in the city and it handles like a corvette”. Subie folks are an interesting bunch. They buy rugged looking Honda civics and think they’re high performance street machines, and gods gift to off-roading all at the same time, when in fact it’s just usually people who are afraid of going all in and just buying the right car. That’s how you end up with a subie. “Subaru, because you want to look extreme but you’re really just kind of practical”.
2:55 the auto locker is a Detroit style ratchet. It has an internal plate that allows the pushed wheel to break the ratchet open when moving faster than the carrier but will not allow it to spin slower. The plate shifts with carrier rotation so that no output shaft can spin slower than it but either can rotate faster as the pushed wheel and disengage the output.
Just depends on input torque whether it locks or unlocks. More torque > more outward force on the cam from the cross-pin > more force overcoming spring pressure, & holding the dogs together keeping the axles spooled together.
@@jake-mv5oi actually, input torque has nothing to do with it. So long as the inside wheel can hold that torque the road will force that output to advance faster than the carrier which triggers the ramping plate to disconnect the dog clutch.
.
Detroit style lockers do not work off torque and prevent either output from rotating slower than the carrier. Either output can always rotate faster under their own power. It’s pure rpm based which makes it excellent off road as it doesn’t need to generate lockup forces off traction.
Thats all true for a Detroit. The torq locker is not Detroit style though. Different design with fewer parts. On the torq locker, the only thing in play is the cross-pin pushing against the cam to push the dogs together and keep it locked up. Maybe dogs is not the correct term on a torq locker, because the ones on the torq locker do not pull each other together with torque, but rather try to unseat each other as the axle is turned. The higher force of the cam overcomes that tendency and keeps it locked.
@@jake-mv5oi it has different parts, but still operated in the same manner. When ground forces accelerate a wheel faster than the carrier speed it unlocks its dog clutch to allow it to free spin. Once at the same rpm it will reengage and prevent it from spinning slower which is when it transfers torque.
.
The drive pin’s job is to orient the cam mechanism which is different than a Detroit but provides the same operation so that the ratchet works in both directions.
.
It still requires zero torque(above what it takes to reorient the cam) to operate and it doesn’t matter how much input torque is being applied, either wheel can be unlocked when ground forces rotate the wheel faster than the carrier. Their website claims this is accomplished with less than the strength of a finger.
.
It’s still a Detroit style locker. Just like helical gear differentials are still torsen style even though they might only use helical gears instead of torsen’s helical/spur combo idler gears.
.
It is true that the more input torque means the harder the dogs are compressed, but it’s not equal on both sides, once the ground forces accelerate the wheel that sides cam disengages and allows it to free spin faster. So input torque doesn’t lock up the outputs, but is used to prevent the outputs from rotating slower.
I understand you guys are not rock crawlers, but I guarantee the 4-runner could have made that last obstacle, and would have loved to see the Subaru attempt it.
Agree... Ryan is conservative in his off roading... 4runner would've made it no problem
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD too conservative - but must 4runner owners are. This feature is like a '2' rating where a stock 4runner can easily take on a '3-4' rated trail
Go far left and either of them could have made it.
I agree, that’s exactly where the 4 runner would shine.
Outback is a perfect combination of light duty offroad with road trip.
As a new outback owner and a longtime toyota tacoma owner this makes me happy best video yall made.
One of the best comparison reviews that I've seen. This is the way the Outback Wilderness should have come from the factory. I bet the Outback with mods is still less money than the four runner. I'd buy it!
It’s probably more money. An stock Outback wilderness is about the same price as a SR5 4Runner and those mods aren’t cheap.
I had a 2018 Subaru Outback with the last of the 3.6. I put a 2" ADF spacer lift on it. It was just fine for most of these things you're doing here. It got us loaded down with 4 adults, a dog, and a Thule Motion XL XXL on the top up to the Stargazer Yurt in ID with 6-10" of snow on the few miles up. Even two hunters left their 4x4 pickup at the trailhead and walked. When we passed them, one of them was cheering me on screaming up the hill and the other had a look of dumbfoundedness, or so my passengers said. I was quite focused on the road. Then I moved to CO, now I own a Jeep.
The Subaru AWD system was second to none, best vehicle in the snow I've ever owned. It was pretty comfortable on long road trips. I got 27mpg before the lift and larger tires. After, I think I got about 24-25mpg per tank.
The Jeep wins hands down though. I heard someone once say, "I want a vehicle to get me to camp sites that Subaru's and camper vans can't get to. I love my Jeep.
How about the prices of each car as well as the cost of the upgrades? That usually helps in making decisions
The subaru even with the upgrades is still probably cheaper than a stock 4runner😂
- LP Aventure Hood light brackets
- LP Aventure Axleback
- LP Aventure 5 x LP1 Wheels
- Goodyear Wrangler TrailRunner AT 245/65R-17
- RIGd UltraSwing Hitch Carrier
- Rigid Flood Lights
- Thule Vector M Roofbox
- Thule AeroBlade Edge 7502B
- Torq Masters TORQ Locker
- ARP Extended Wheel Studs
- 15mm Spacers
- Mishimoto Oil Cooler
- Add'l CVT Cooler
- Flatout GR40 Suspension
- RalliTEK Subframe Drop Spacer Kit
- Curt Class 3 Hitch
- Redarc Brake Controller
- PowerStop Z26 Brake Pads
That swing out isn’t a rigd. It’s the Dirtcom Trail swing.
@@Goadvtr I just pasted off what I found on an article about him and his rig cause people asked about his list. Can say if it was accurate or not. Don't know the guy
I think if I could only choose one, I would pick the 4runner. I really do like the Outback but I keep reading bad things about reliability. Toyota seems to hold its value well and be a more reliable choice than most other manufacturers.
Subaru is known for blown up gaskets. I used to own a Subaru Forrester
@@esanhaider8727 the new ones are apparently a lot better (since they partnered up with Toyota)
@@ReubenHorner The new ones aren't made with Toyota. Toyota only used their D4S (direct and port fuel injection) on the BRZ/86, maybe looked over the engine but did not co-develop. The engine in a non BRZ are completely Subaru, and direct injection only.
Subaru is #1 in resale value in North America. Subarus are reliable if you understand how to drive their engines, they are more susceptible to driver error, where as Toyotas are just bomb proof. I frequent on Subaru forums, and 90% of the reliability complaints are driver error that they refuse to admit. Subarus, especially turbo ones, do not like low rev acceleration, that's when it blows, so when you drive aggressively in an automatic, manually shift down before you step on the gas. Automatics don't downshift enough, that goes for any brand.
All this really showed was that any vehicle with a locker, ground clearance, and tires can pretty much do any trail you want. I predict his cvt will last long though.
Enjoyed the episode. When will Subaru build a trail worthy Outback such as Robert has done, from the factory? It would be popular, I am sure there is a market for one or a new model perhaps.
Oven been waiting all week for this video, Awesome job!
the 4 runner in the hands of a capable driver would have walked up where you turned around. Also the lack of a low range transfer case and proper gearing will severely limit the subi. So no it cannot do anything the 4runner can. That trail was really mild.
WOW !! Totally impressed with the Outback !! Thoroughly enjoyed that vid. Please accept more challenges on your channel. Nuff thumbs up !!!
Showing LOVE for the channel and I've gotta admit I'm beyond impressed with the Subaru outback wilderness I am in the market for a vehicle I've looked at Jeeps 4Runners and I've got to admit with the left and everything that this guy has done with this Subaru I am sold for my daily commutes and yes I do like traveling here in East Tennessee in the beautiful Appalachian mountains and on these fire roads that we have I am just bedazzled at the Subaru now my wife hands down once a 4Runner there is no as if bus about it TRD off-road package that is what my wife wants and that's what my wife will get hate to think she wouldn't but i Absolutely LOVED this video point blank thank you and have a Blessed day everyone
Both vehicles are solid. Good luck with your wife. Lol
Now this was a fun video. Way to go Robert. Nicely done.
Thats what makes the Outback unique, you wont see most other crossovers do the same stuff...
I don’t see how this was deemed a tie, when we all know the 4Runner could of kept going and going with the Subaru watching from a distance. Good effort for the Subaru though.
This. The 4Runner is an off-road legend. The Suburu is a decent off-roading vehicle. You won't be overlanding as much in a Subaru as you will in a 4Runner.
i completely disagree, while i think that yes the 4runner could keep going the outback could do MUCH more than they showed in the video. I have seen some of these lifted subarus with lockers do insane stuff and this was nowhere near the limit
Very nice Outback. . . I will say this, there is no "comparison" in this video because neither vehicle was pushed anywhere near its limit. The limit was in the driver's seat. With an extremely competent driver in each vehicle and the wherewithal to find the limits, there would have been no "tie". The 4Runner would have been vastly better on the rocks and the 'baru would be the king of the gravel road and maybe the daily driver. That said, the lunchbox locker in the Outback is an interesting concept and it would be fun to see how much it can take both on and off pavement.
Awesome! I would have never thought Robert Champion would be in something like this..awesome dude! I met you like 15 years ago at a Rally Event in NJ. Always pop up somewhere in my feed. Keep going man 🤙
That has to be one of the best looking outback!!! It’s such a beautiful car! By far the best modified outback!
Been up this trail in my 4runner. Careful maneuvering got me up those rocks on the right hand side.
Love what he did with the wilderness. I been thinking about trading in my 21 Touring XT for one. Very impressive with that rear locker and lift.
Trading in a car that's barely a year old... Sounds like an impulse buyer
@@wtDrake Ive had my car for going on 2 years. I decided to keep my XT though as I rarely go offroad. Its nice that we have people who can judge you on the internet though.
@@jjay718 Good for you. Sounds like you couldn't bite the massive depreciation. There's plenty of people who do and stay broke.
@@wtDrake I could care less what other people do with their money. If it makes them happy then so be it. I wont pay over msrp for any car though.
@@jjay718 it was fine for everyone in 2007 to buy whatever made them happy til it ruined the economy for everyone else.
I'm from Colorado.. now based in western Washington.. I'm also a 4runner offroad driver... have had and drove Subarus.. this is one of the nicest Subarus I've seen. And it's nice to see how well it does when modified to that level.. 😊 although I probably won't rush out to get a Subaru again.. maybe when my youngest child is ready for a car.. a Subaru like that will be in the works.
Locker with the Subaru is amazing, even better is the CVT not overheating with the adding cooling. Overall just a few changes makes a world of difference in capability and reliability.
Love to see someone doing functional mods that just make sense and actually serve a purpose.
+1 for the CVT cooler mod, even for a stock Outback, I think this makes sense to mod. The additional heat removal should be beneficial for extending the life expectancy ... and allowing it to stay out of "self-protect mode" longer, when you need it to do its thing.
So Proud to see the 4 Runner I sold Ryan in all the videos....AWESOME!!! I'm not GURU and I was just the guy doing the paperwork but still glad to feel like I'm a part of this. Let's go 4 Runner!!! :)
Very cool face off and that modified outback is rad, although, to be fair, the 4runner is still certainly better "out of the box." Going that deep on mods on a vehicle that already costs 40,000+ in stock form is daunting. Beautiful car though. Better daily driver and more feature rich.
Even with the additional mods on the Subie, it still costs less over all than the 4runner lol
@@adamrandaustin I really doubt that.
@@adamrandaustin No, it does not. I paid $35K for my 4runner OffRoad in 2018 which is comparable if not less than adequately equipped outback. Plus all those upgrades.
@@nofyfb123 you got a deal or used. Out the door my buddy bought a 4ru ner not even the TRD for 55$k. It's a 2019. The TRD goes for 60k
@@adamrandaustin It was new, and I paid what the stealer asked - $35K.
Kudos to the 3 of you on a well played video! Great shots, clear audio and even some nice soft background music. Where can I get the full lowdown on the exact mods Robert used to upgrade his Wilderness? Availability and costs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much, guys, on great content for a wannabe owner of a Wilderness type vehicle, that can also tow a small camper, with which to “explore” my bucket list in retirement.
The body on frame construction and four low transfer case really make the four runner a winner here. The Subaru is cool, but if both vehicles were given a regular diet of trails like this the Subaru wouldn’t last. I don’t have a dog in this fight, as I am not a fanboy of either. The Subaru is great for occasional rough use as it’s built, but I wouldn’t want to deal with that auto locker in the rear in snowy and icy weather or daily driving for that matter. Selectable lockers are definitely the way to go for a street driven car.
Body-on-frame doesn't matter much, other than replaceability. Remember the Jeep XJ?
@@RKmndo yes I do. Every owner of them who uses them in the rough eventually scraps them or tries to reinforce the unibody construction.
@@johnwalker3263 Similar can be said of body-on-frame vehicles.
Let's be real. A stock Subaru Outback/Crosstrek/Forester (mechanically, basically the same thing) is capable of far more than 99% of people will ever put it through. The same goes for a 4Runner. I see off-road tests like this as reassurance that my Subaru will be able to handle anything the Northeastern winters and the occasional unmaintained trail to a hike/camp spot in the will throw at me. Putting some BFG K02's on it next week and stoked.
Always enjoy the 4Runner content!
Very good video. Fantastic rebuild of Subaru. You did great work with your Subaru. Thanks a lot.
Nice video ! Thats a lot of work on the Subie compared to stock 4Runner.. but if you want a crossover type SUV thats capable... thats the one !!
My man Robert! Nice to see you on here!
Subaru should really offer the locker if it wants to be a 4x4 in more than looks alone.
Your channel deserves at least 5 million subscribers.I would say one of the best channels for cars I the whole TH-cam video thing, if not the best.Support them guys!
Excellent video, and very much impressed with the Outback Wilderness from the factory - but this setup definitely takes it to a new level with more capability; not getting rid of my 4Runner quite yet though... ;)
This is a great video, Robert was an excellent guest and both vehicles are awesome.
Subaru's whole existence is based on its supposed advanced AWD systems. It feels like it would be in their interest to actually make something that is really off-road capable like this Outback.
The Outback and Outback Wilderness, in particular, are indeed off road capable. These mods just enhance that capability. I’d love to see the locker come installed from the factory, though.
That Subaru...my dream car. Can't afford it though so I'll just keep watching videos. Great video by the way.
some older outbacks could do that as well with lift and locker. mine is 3.0 , 7cm lifted. 11' ground clearance. every day car , shoping and such.. fun car too.
11 foot ground clearance is crazy, like a monster truck!
Love this segment ! So unbiased and real coverage. Wish FOX and CNN could be as honest as you guys ! Cheers
You forgot to add ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC...or are you a sheep who believes those are honest? 🤡🤡🤡🤡
I used to want a 4Runner, and still love them. I ended up buying an outback because I wanted better gas milage. Since it's my daily/commuter, I had to sacrifice some off road capability. Maybe one day I can buy a second car as a dedicated off road vehicle. Something like a wrangler Rubicon or 4 runner TRD pro.
Honestly, looking at the price of 4Runners right now was enough to dissuade me from getting a 4Runner. I'm not paying $50,000 for such a dated and utilitarian vehicle.
@God Emperor of Mankind dated. Lmfao modern designs are crap and overthought. The engine in that 4Runner will last 400k miles. Whatever you buy will be lucky to last half of that.
You have a point. I got a Rav4 hybrid as a daily driver but I am not giving up any of my 4Runners - 2004 and 2018.
Great review gentleman! I really do think the new Outback Wilderness mods might be a big upgrade!
I am very interested to see what the Wilderness brings with the next generation of vehicles. Are they just going to consider it good or will they continue to refine the drivetrain features. Seeing something like the torq locker on it would be very cool.
They're just going to keep it as is. Subarus aren't meant for that crazy offroading for need of lockers. They see their cars as just something for the outdoors and hitting some small trails
In the Subaru instruction manual : NOT FOR OFF-ROAD USE. It's not the lift or tires, its the bushings, the size of the bolts, the architecture of the suspension, the strength of all the underpinnings on a truck you just simply don't get with a car.
Lol
can Robert provide a list of the modifications he did? have had my Outback Wilderness for a month now and would like to do what he did...thanks.
Agreed; a parts list would be great! Love the upgrades.
+1
He's got a website that lists all his mods. Could probably Google his name and find it
He lists them at the beginning. Most are pretty standard upgrades, the only unusual mod is the torq locker.
Same here, had it for a month and would like to slowly add parts to it. Starting with Yakima racks first.
I really hope y’all got a few more challenged filmed. Would like to see a dirt-hill climb, some off-set wheels, etc. all the goodies. Real good stuff here.
That guy modded the Subaru well but I would still opt for the 4runner as you can tell the 4runner is still more capable as the Subaru did raise some wheels where the 4runner didn't but still excellent for a car/suv
No way. I don't blame you guys for not wanting to tear up personal vehicles. Me on the other hand loves it. First time I took my '18 Outback up a bunny hill like that I broke it. Few parts later we went up a way harder rocky trail. Broke it even worse and the body damage is just a reminder of what a great day we had. Many parts later, this thing will get you there. Dang thing squeaks worse than a 78 Celica though.
That's a nice Subaru but at the end of the day I rather have the ladder frame!
And having the option for rear wheel drive only can be too much fun.
This is a fun video. I am impressed with what the after market offers and improves the capability of vehicles. This Subaru climbed effortlessly what many traditional trucks and suvs could not.
That is a badass OBW
I will be that guy. Are we really comparing a unibody non low range, to a 4runner🧐? I own both a 2016 3.6R and 2019 4rnr. Hate to mention but the 4rnr tested is stock, tires and all so are we doing an apples to apple comparison? “Jealous of your buddy with a 2k lift fitted to his ride clearance?” GREAT REVIEW AND AWESOME SUBARU! But for the truth remains that the two are not even close in comparison.
We already have another whole video comparing them stock-for-stock as mentioned in the video.
YASSSSSSSS!!! Super interested in both that suspension and locker!
14:15 So now you rally race? Or do we check back in 100k for a maintenance report?
And what do you think of my take that the Lexus GX is the missing link between them?
GX is just a fancier looking 4R. Same drivetrain. Just different interior and exterior. And I agree that they didn’t even try. The prior test involved a steep, rutted uphill climb. Nothing remotely close on this easy trail.
Lifting a lifted wagon thats lifted over a lifted wagon thats lifted over the regular wagon lol
Awesome video guys! Any idea on the cost to purchase/install the E-locker on the outback?
The locker itself is about $500, labour depends on shop and area, for trucks/SUVs would probably average $1000 just for labour, I'm assuming it would be the same for a Subaru.
@@gwot That sounds very reasonable considering the performance gained.
Pretty sure he was mistaken, when he said E-Locker. The Outback has a ratcheting "Lunchbox" Locker.
An E locker would be awesome, the torque lockers are very noisy.
TORQ Locker for Subaru is $430, install can be around $300. You don't need to setup backlash with this style of locker, so it's an easy job.
Can’t wait to get my lifted Forester Wilderness locked and loaded!!! Great vid!!! Want to see more!!!
Very interesting head to head. Really impressed with the Scubie.
Looks like it can handle 99% of trails but the lack of low range would make me nervous for longevity.
If it's meant to be an overland vehicle capable of occasional trails it's fine, but if it's something you do often you will most likely see accelerated wear and tear to the drive line on the Subaru.
That's how I see mine personally, good daily and good snow handling and *can* go off roading if it's required, the gas mileage isn't bad either in their flat 6.
There's definitely cars that are better in every category, more comfortable dailies, better mileage, better off-roading..definitely better towing, but I like one that can do about whatever I ask of it.
@@MrLaz0rz how old is your subaru to have a flat 6????
@@kimmyyimmel2010 2018, their 3.6R version.
@@MrLaz0rz dang I don't know why but I thought all the recent models were some variety of a 4 cylinder
Nice rig. I''m considering an Outback as a second car. My 3rd Gen 4runner limited(elocker) is a beast and get me through the woods and reservations in Northern AZ. Terrain is just like this down to desert. 2 inch lift with bilsteins and KO2s is all I have and it eats up trails like this. However, no armor so I would have stopped where they did. I'm constantly impressed what it can do with the most minor mods.
Nice Outback! love the capability it has. Building something like that I worry about all the little spacers and longer hoses and linkages and whatnots that the extra lift and articulation bring stress to. I'm a newbie researching and I haven't found a good Subaru off road shop that I trust yet (Albuquerque area, but willing to drive a bit to find one) as I'm not experienced enough for DIY.
Ryan, good luck buddy, it looks like the wilderness did ok....I have the wilderness in the geyser blue. Subaru did a wonderful job in producing this vehicle. Toyota is a fantastic vehicle as well. Nice job....this is my favorite video
Very curious what trail you’re on. Would love to see this outback on some of the tougher trails in Colorado. Thinking Slaughterhouse Gulch, Barbour Fork, or Red Cone. Done them all in a stock Lexus GX470.
The 3%/1000ft rule applies to the gross engine power before all internal losses at the engine, which are static for a given RPM. At 9-10K ft elevation, you probably have closer to 170HP in the 4runner.
Not that it matters with low-range on a trail like this, but still... something for car buyers in colorado to keep in mind. We love our turbo volvo's, which have enough absolute pressure compensation headroom in their systems for ~5-6K ft elevation before they start to lose any power.
GX460 loves the tough stuff. KDSS disconnects sways off road, then back on again during on road turns. Max articulation... 4runner could've made it through that last part in this video. But I understand Ryan's reasoning. The Subaru wins with gas mileage thats for sure. Overall, nice comparison. Next time I think both vehicles can make it past where they stopped...
Our Toyota's are not known for their excellent MPG. Lol.
I am jealous of your V8. But I am also jealous of a rig like this Outback and his 20 mpg city. Lol
We have a 2013 4Runner Trail and a 2015 Forester XT. Both excel at different tasks. The 4Runner with the KDSS, crawl control, and skid plates is more than adequate for the jeep trails that we use. The Forester's AWD system is much better on snow and ice but the CVT and lack of low range and skid plates keep this vehicle on decent roads. Also have to say that the tires that came with both vehicles were mediocre at best. High quality AT rubber makes a huge difference when off roading and less likely to get punctured.
4Runner owners out here finally realizing their overpriced 13MPG rig isn't all that great anymore. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Nah, you ain't taking that Subaru everywhere my 4Runner TRD has been in Alaska and the only thing I changed was the tires, cuz they sucked in the deep snow and ice. Dont judge the capability of a 4Runner on this video alone.
Taking a 4runner over an outback any day lol. Those obstacles were pretty easy honestly. A 4Runner is 4WD and not AWD, so just because of that alone it is a better off roader without adding in all of its tech.
I have a 2017 subaru crosstrek with falken wildpeak trail AT's and it is a monster in the snow, mud, sand, and going over large rocks. I wish subaru came out with a wilderness model for the trek it's super capable.
The Runner would have made it over that section without any issue. The Subaru may have too. If you want to test the offroad capability of vehicles you need drivers that aren't afraid to scratch the skid plates.
Great video, fun to watch and learn about the OB n 4R
Where can we get a complete build list on this Subaru?! I'd like to replicate 90% of that.
Yes please. Can we get some links to Robert’s social media accounts.
main parts are the torque master rear locking diff and the flatout suspension gr40
I helped develop the Torq locker system for the Subie platform. Great to see it going into the wilderness.
im interested in putting it in my outback, how much does it cost?
@@ryanroberts3793 $430 plus shipping
I'd like to put one in my 2016 CVT Crosstrek. Which sundial tool is needed for the rear diff?
Really hope he does some actual mods to the 4Runner. Lift/suspension kit, bigger tires, sliders.
@ Driving Sports TV I'm getting a Subaru outback and want some advice on the mods I see here and how to make it better for getting me to trailheads. I also want to know more about what you did to the outback and how it affected fuel milliage, I really enjoy your videos. Thank you. Your videos helped me decide what vehicle to get for my lifestyle.
I’d like to know what the Outback mpg’s with the lift and tires
Im guessing around 20.
Less than a 4Runner
@@user-tb7rn1il3q that would be abysmal. My 4Runner only got about 13 with a best of 15. That’s why I sold it
@@J.Young808 I get 23-25 mpg in my 5th Gen 4Runner. No Subaru can touch that. The boxer engines eat fuel, oil, and antifreeze. They are junk.
This was awesome thank you. You just helped me realize that I don't really need a Tacoma because I probably will always stop where you stopped anyway.