Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
Unlike Alolan Muk, Galarian Weezing, and Hisuian Samurott, who are straight up upgrades to their regular formes with their secondary types, Hisuian Avalugg is a massive downgrade. Ice/Rock is that bad of a typing and its Speed boost is simply laughable. The only good thing it got out of the exchange is a stronger Ice STAB in Mountain Gale although it’s still too slow to flinch things unless it’s in Trick Room.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that Hisuian Avalugg signature more has a 30% flinch chance despite Avalugg being one of the slowest Pokémons in the entire series.
Even worse, its niche in Trick Room was dimished by the fact that it GAINED speed, turning a 28 to a whopping...38. This is enough to where it wouldnt be able to outspeed other trick room pokemon. Its also not enough to boost to sweep outside of that. Oh, it doesnt learn rock polish either
It also bafflingly gets the ability Strong Jaw, which could potentially make it a niche wallbreaker if its only STAB move boosted by it wasn’t Ice Fang. When boosted, Ice Fang has a base power of 97.5 which makes it practically the same as Mountain Gale but 10% more accurate and with an actually usable Freeze effect without Trick Room up. Very strange that an ability it has exclusive access to over its base form has no niche because of its movepool, and by using this exclusive ability, you’re also undermining its signature attack. Such a weirdly designed Pokemon.
Shoutouts to H-Zoroark being the most unique typing in the entire franchise... Only for Bitter Malice to be left with a bitter change upon Gen 9. Would it kill them to just make it drop Sp.Atk instead of Atk, since Frostbite in Legends was essentially the Special version of Burn?
I think the intent was to let you pair it with Snarl, so you usd attacks guaranteed to lower both offensive stats while still dealing damage It also could've just, you know, had a 10% chance to freeze, if Infernal Parade can still be a status forcing hex why can't this?
It’s still so sad that Primal Kyogre and Groudon got +100 to stats and broken abilities while Origin Dialga and Palkia has to hold an item for minimum gains for the gen 9 meta. I get wanting to be similar to Giritina Origin but in that case give them better distribution of stats and abilities like…something other than Pressure again.
@@zenoxgaming7421everyone would have loved it if they buffed giratina stats' along side Palkia and Dialga in order to give a bit more impact to them in their alternative forms though
I think prime Kyogre and Grondon were supposed to be a stronger form than themselves, whereas Origin Dialga and Palkia were meant to be alternate forms, just like what Giratina is.
@@nicolaswhitehouse3894and would you look at that, being item locked for no extra stats isn't that good. Getting a better ability and better stats is way better than that. They probably should have made it so all three of them change form outside of battle, similarly to how Kyurem, Neceozma and Calyrex fusions are made
@@unaffectedbycardeffects9152I think the devs weren’t trying to make Dialga and Palkia a better Pokemon. They were focusing on the lore more than the gameplay. They were inspired by the original form of Giratina and thought that it should apply the same for them, with an item that is locked to it.
At least now we know Dialga goes to the same pharmacy as Mr. Krabs! Wonder if Origin Dialga swallowed the Adamant Crsytal like a huge pill causing its neck to expand like that...
@@THGMR-ox7sd Ngl, Imo Palkia's origin form looks a lot lot worse. Like, why did bro turn into a horse all of a sudden? Regular Palkia had such a cool design but they just butchered the origin form
@@facade6927For me it's the fact that he's devoid of arms, the centaur look could have been interesting, but instead they created a monstrosity that is somewhere in between
To Alolan Dugtrio's credit, it is still much better than Kantonian Dugtrio post-Arena Trap ban. It ended up being a solid mon in PU in Gen 7, while normal Dugtrio is eternally stuck as a useless mon without its broken ability.
It’s really strange how they CONSTANTLY gave the Dugtrio variants abilities that requires the user to take contact damage, and funnily both abilities are very similar as they lower speed (Tangling Hair and Gooey)
@@Kannon_Shots It probably wishes it was a form instead, because then it'd at least have the glory of being a form of an extremely broken Pokémon instead of just being one of the worst in the game...
Whats even funnier, is that alolan Dugtrio has more defense then kantoian Dugtrio but it's only by 10 points, so Gamefreak actually did make it tankier but not by enough that anyone who isn't a nerd like me would actually notice.
Palkia-Origin would've been so much better if it existed in an earlier gen of Ubers, but Ubers got supremely speed-crept in the past two gens with demons like Zacian-C, Eternatus, and Koraidon.
@@the_bookworm8281 imagine if origin forms were kinda like primals. A stat increase with holding an item. Would make sense for the Creation Trio right?
Each of them retain good stats. The only thing holding them back is their bad abilities and inability to hold items. If each form got new abilities (Dialga-O got filter and Palkia-O got speed boost), there would be more versatility and reason to use them.
@@PCG06 They want to keep it consistent with Giratina-Origin, who has the same BST but simply swaps the offensive and defensive stats (100/120/100/120 -> 120/100/120/100). It is strange, however, that they did not give the new forms new abilities like what they did with Giratina-Origin. Actually come to think of it, it is kind of weird in general that Dialga and Palkia were given Pressure as an ability in the first place, when the generation prior they gave ultra busted Weather abilities to their box cover legends. Is it because Groudon and Kyogre have 10 less BST than other box cover legends? Bizarre choice regardless. Wow, this reply to a comment went off on a massive tangent. lol
I really wish they had converted the GMax moves into standard signature moves in SV like they had with Clangerous Soul Blaze being converted to Clangerous Soul in SwSh for Kommo-o. Granted, some of their effects would need nerfs, like the status ones being made percent chance based, but they all likely would’ve either been big boons to their respective mons’ viability or at least given them a niche. Imagine Copperajah with Steel Surge, setting the sharp metal hazard in the same vein as Ceaseless Edge & Stone Axe.
@@goGothitaLOL G-Max STONEsurge should've been Rock type. Drednaw probably would've been a very good G-Max sweeper if it could set rain and rocks all while attacking at the same time. Idk what Gamefreak was thinking with this mon🤦♂
Unfortunate issue is that copperajah's regular ability is sheer force, so unless it got a second ability the effect would never go off unless you got one with heavy metal.
@@TLNT2103-zg3sb Dang, I didn't know that Sheer Force affects moves like Stone Axe.Idk why they're treated as secondary effects(like Ice Beam, Iron Head, Scald) instead of primary effects (like Knock Off, Dragon Tail, Thief)
After Kyogre and Groudon got meta defining new forms with boosted stats, awesome designs, and busted abilities, I was hoping that the gods of time and space would get something similar. Boy, was I disappointed
@zenoxgaming7421 They should've at least given them some good abilities like ones that automatically set Trickroom and Gravity for Dialga and Palkia respectively. Even if they just fully copied Giratina and gave them both Levitate, I'd say that at least Dialga-Origin would be significantly more viable.
@zenoxgaming7421 that's a fair point. But even when you just compare them just to Giratina's origin form, they still come up short for me. Ignoring designs since that's subjective (even though I'm pretty sure everyone agrees Giratina's looks way better) Giratina's completely changes how it's played: turning it from a defensive pokemon to an offensive one, so both forms have their own competitive niches. Dialga and Palkia's, on the other hand, just swaps their high attack with a more useful stat, making it so there's no real reason to use the originals, while still being too small a buff to get them more usage
Dialga & Palkia: “But how?! We’ve taken on this form to harness the power of Father! Why isn’t it enough?!” Giratina, chuckling that soon becomes all-out laughter: “That’s always been your problem, my foolish siblings. You were ever the model children to Father and eager to please Him. Your new “forms” are nothing but a pathetic imitation of His, while mine…” _Giratina transforms_ “Has always been my own strength.”
Darmanitan's Zen Mode should start as zen, letting it actually take advantage of the bulk. Plus, from a fluff perspective, it would make sense if it's at peace right up until someone strikes first. Would it make Zen useful? Probably not, but it would make more sense
lore wise, darmanitan zen mode should be its default while its tk form should be the revenge attacker after poking it too much or what? the lore explanation is that after receiving so many hits it cooled down and now its at peace with whatever happens?
In balanced hackmons or “totally legitimate” versions of Pokémon, I’ve seen them just give Zen Mode Darmanitan Sheer Force like base Darm. Or any other ability for that matter (like Magic Guard which also prevents life orb damage like Sheer Force but feels like the more special/psychic version of it) because technically, if you had a Zen Darm without Zen Mode as its ability, it can’t change back at over half health. Then it can use its bulk with leftovers and it can actually use its special attack stat before it dies
Also a signature move that is psychic special in Zen and turns into fire physical in angry mode. It would be slightly weaker than alternative moves with the boon of combining what would have been two attacks into one reliable one leaving more room for other moves.
Honorable mention goes to Mega Garchomp. Losing 10 points of speed wasn’t worth it since it gets out speed by the 100 speed stat Pokémon. Plus Life Orb Garchomp hits hard as its Mega Form.
I believe they already touched on that when talking about Mega Forms in another video. I don't think Mega Forms should be conflated with regional forms.
Rotom-Flying should have been mentioned, not only does it's Ability become useless unless under very specific circumstances, but it also gets weaker with it's STAB being Air Slash over Shadow Ball which is has more common resistances. It's typing also makes it weak to Stealth Rock and Ice-types instead of being immine to Rapid Spin and Fighting-type attacks.
@@williamjewell6247Sure, it does... But Fan was NU with a niche in RU while Base was RU with a niche in UU all the way back in gen 5, right after the 5 forms' type changes; and it has only gotten worse since. Being weak to the pesky pebbles and having weak STABs really hurts it.
@@skeetermania3202 But that's about it. Rotom-Fan keeping Levitate wastes its ability slot with redundancy, and its only Flying STAB is Air Slash, the weakest move Rotom gets changing forms
We all hoped the origin forms would be closer to primal form in terms of power. Instead they look goofy af and barely changed at all. Like imagine if they had special abilities, Dialga can skip charge and recharge turns (cuz time) while Palkia has an accuracy and secondary effect chance boost (cuz space)
Speaking of secondary effect chance boosting, did you know Spacial Rend had a boosted crit change when used by Palkia-O back in Legends: Arceus (12.5% crit rate to 50% crit rate)? In a somewhat similar vein, Dialga-O and Giratina-O had the power of their respective signature moves boosted, though those might have just been to simulate the boost they would have gotten from their orbs (since held items weren't in Legends: Arceus). Can you also guess which move mechanics never made it to S/V?
@@ArtsyJet because someone who controls space shouldnt be able to miss because they can just bend space to make the attack hit. and the effect chance is basically so spacial rend always crits lol
Why Origin Dialga and Palkia DON'T have a different ability from their base forms is the greatest mystery, did they forget Giratina Origin's viability lied nearly all on it's ability?
The origin Palkia and Dialga were clearly an after thought. That’s why they just appear out of nowhere, and no explanation for the forms were ever given. We still don’t know why we haven’t seen these forms ever before if they could just transform. With the Primals there was the whole multiverse thing which explained the differences, and there was actual lore as to how they oost their original forms.
It's crazy to me that they brought over the origin form key items from Legends, originally making me think they were going to allow itemless form changes for them via a key item instead like Shaymin (this would buff Giratina too but he's really bad in VGC so it's needed) which would make both new forms very much worth using, but no, they changed the functionality of them to just all work like the griseous orb and even changed the original griseous orb to just not work like it used to... felt like such a missed opportunity, especially when the gen 3 superancient trio made out like bandits with their primal forms
5:20 i know yall don't cover the Lets Go games, but it is fair to mention that Alolan Dugtrio does fair better in these games. One of the few Steel types in that game, a type combo that quad resists stealth rock in a game you can't remove them, it works very well as a Zapdos counter.
I'm surprised that G-Max Eevee wasn't mentioned alongside G-Max Meowth in terms of "Bad Pokemon with Bad G-Max Moves", given how vastly inferior G-Max Cuddle is to Max Strike.
Origin Forme Dialga and Palkia are just such missed opportunities. Both in terms of making them more competitive, but also because there's already so little connecting these two with their lore of being the creators of time and space. Cool, new abilities that tie into that theme would have fixed that, but instead they just got a slight base stat reshuffle.
Gamefreak be trolling with some of these, i swear. Avalugg, a mon that was made for taking hits, could barely do it with the ice typing, and then they paired it with the 2nd worst defensive type in the game, rock. Gave it a signature move with a flinch chance, on a mon with no speed...
Also it doesn't even look that different, so you don't even get to enjoy a twist on a Pokemon. Say what you will about A!Sandslash, but at least it looks cool.
One other thing to mention about Zen Mode is that if Darmanitan recovers above half HP, it goes back to its regular form. If it was a permanent transformation, ala Zygarde’s Complete form, maybe then a recovery focused team or set could be occasionally worthwhile (or just fun).
Copperajah gmax form I think was the most interesting. Setting up steel type steal rocks is an interesting idea and I’d like to see it come back as an actual move
Shoutout to G-max Butterfree for getting G-max Befuddle, a Bug type max move that would inflict a random status effect (Poison, Sleep, or Paralysis) on the target 100% of the time. Basically just Dire Claw but even better. Too bad it was stuck on Butterfree...
They should've made the move into a regular signature move for Butterfree in Gen 9 instead of having it stuck toa generational gimmick. Same goes for Copperajah with its Steel hazards
I feel Zen mode OG Darmanitan would do better if it got the treatment that Bloodmoon Ursaluna got. In that it was a separate exclusive alternate form and got a unique ability or even kept Sheer Force
Or if zen mode worked by activating based on if the move you clicked was physical or special, kinda like stance change. Maybe give it built in lifesteal on moves
Or even just have zen mode activate from the start rather than it being nearly KOd and have all of its moves scale off of its highest attacking state (kinda like a reverse psyshock effect) only while in zen mode then switch to normal while below 25% hp.
I hope to Arceus that Game Freak has a "Pokemon Legends Eternatus" planned in the future Cause if there's one concept that needs a second chance to be conceptually cool, it's Dynamaxing and Gigantanaxing Imagine either a giant pokemon battle in a similar vein to Giant bowser or giant luigi battles in The Mario and luigi series OR just imagine riding on the back of your dynamax pokemon of Choice while you are in an arena fight against a rampaging gigantanax toxtricity That'd be amazing!
@skeetermania3202 that's the only thing it's good at along with it being the most used mon in ZU tier aside from these it's so ass. At least it has cool design though
The G-Max Fire Spin and Sand Tomb moves were actually better since both the regular version of the moves because they did a bit more damage and additionally trapped the opponent when you switch out. These were the only moves in all of Pokemon that can trap opponents while letting you manually switch.
Groudon and Kyogre: Get fantastic remakes that are compatible with the main games of that gen that also integrated the main mechanics of that gen into Hoenn perfectly and then also get amazing new forms that tied into the lore and surpassed even the megas. Dialga and Palkia: Get "faithful" remakes that did nothing interesting and were then shoved into a much better spinoff but ultimately weren't that important and get turned into funny horses. Pearl was my first game... why must they do this to me...
G-Max Melmetal would actually be pretty good if someone was running a Choice Scarf. G-Max Meltdown subjects mons to Torment, meaning it wouldn't be able to use the same move twice, which puts Choice Scarf users at a major disadvantage.
that sounds good on paper until you realize that the Scarfed mon that outsped Melmetal on the previous turn can still use its attack for another turn. Unless Melmetal somehow outspeeds a Scarf mon then the Torment doesnt count the move used before Torment became applied. Unless you've got Melmetal in Trick Room, then its decent ig. But at that point youre already in such an advantageous position that I dont think Torment would be more useful than a Def boost.
i feel like if avalugg-h was ice / ground instead it could have been decent, ground typing would (maybe) remove the need for boots and give it a good immunity (which doesn't help it with the other moves of electric mons but still)
Ice / Ground would have been a better typing in the long run. Amazing STAB combination, an Electric immunity, Sneaky Pebble neutrality, immunity to Sandstorm. Life would be good.
You can get that too with Ice/Steel. It loses offensive potential, but it has the addition of being immune to Toxic Spikes. Ice/Ground doesn't give it any ×4 weaknesses tho
Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
I'm not the biggest fan of running mixed attacking sets on mons with few exceptions(such as running Fake Out on special attackers like Salazzle) mainly because it is better for both EVs and nature's to focus on one attack Stat or the other depending on the mons natural stats and what role I have planned for them and so when I already EV train a certain amount into one attacking stat I can focus more EVs into its bulk of my choosing or speed. Same with natures. I find it easier to run modest or timid for special attackers than to run mild or rash or naive or hasty for a mixed special attacker. That's just my take on mixed attackers.
Shoutouts to G-Max Melmetal being ultra nonexistent because Dynamax is banned in Smogon singles and Mythicals are always banned in VGC But in the event that G-Max Melmetal does get to do the whole "exist" thing, what does G-Max Meltdown get you? Applying Torment to the enemies Keep in mind, Dynamaxed Pokemon are immune to mental statuses like Encore, Taunt, Torment, etc., so it's more often than not going to be having no extra effect, essentially, and is thus a worse option compared to Max Steelspike Which leads to the ultimate comedy being that Melmetal is the only 'mon with a G-Max form that cannot have it added or removed with the Dynamax Soup from Isle of Armor, so the Home gift Melmetal is basically worse compared to any regular Melmetal you could get from GO Lovely.
I think the biggest problem with origin palkia and dialga is that for some asinine reason, they are still shackled with a pressure as abilities which are terrible to useless on them. Origin Giratina at the very least had levitate which gave it a defensive immunity to ground which stacked on top of its immunity to fighting and normal and resistance to 6 types thus essentially making it resilient against half of the entire type chart. Origin palkia at least could do more with its added speed but origin dialga has nothing that stands out over its base form (I would have thought it’d do an inverse to origin palkia where dialga becomes slower to take better advantage of trick room but nope gamefreak couldn’t even do that) The only problem origin Giratina has (aside from general power creep) is its reliance on its held item which they could have fixed (this could also apply to dialga and palkia) if the useless redundant clone items of the adamant, lustrous and griseous orbs (adamant crystal, lustrous globe and griseous core) were key items that enabled their form change without losing an item slot so they have more flexibility. Granted Giratina will still face difficulties since speed creep has gotten way too out of hand but it still would have had more to work with if its item slot wasn’t shackled. Tbh origin palkia and dialga alongside many old legends don’t need primal groudon/kyogre levels of stat buffs, they just need to flat out replace pressure as an ability to something thats more useful (while also making sense thematically) or just add secondary abilities in addition to their hidden ones as that ability is actively making most old legendaries worse in the long term.
I mean I get the devs where trying to focus more on the lore rather than gameplay. It makes sense that these pokes holds an orb because they come from a different plane of existence. And it makes sense that origin Dialga and Palkia shares the same trait than origin Giratina but what I don’t understand is that the devs are trying to make Origin Dialga and Palkia, similar to origin Giratina, but they forgot to put an ability that is different from pressure. I mean I understand there logic, but at least they only need to do the job well.
@@nicolaswhitehouse3894 I get that as well especially with the mechanic being functionally similar to Arceus’s multitype but the problem I have with the item thing is gamefreak made that worse in legends arceus and SV by introducing whats literally a redundant item set and stripped the griseous orbs form change effect to put it into the said redundant items as a weird roundabout way of avoiding giving the form change effect to the original adamant and lustrous orbs. This would have been fine if the adamant crystal, lustrous globe and griseous core functioned like in legends Arceus where they were operated like key items but instead their just clone items that stole the form change effect from the og orbs which in turn added unnecessary bloat to the item pool for no reason. it’s an atrocious approach to the origin form as a form changing mechanic and not only that but origin dialga and palkia not having new abilities kinda just makes these forms feel like an afterthought.
@@mectainea5575I agree 100%. I get the same feeling as well of an idea that is unfinished. Like they were trying to do something but ended up not doing it completely.
If you include Zen Mode Darmanitan, you should also include Castform as his forms still had 70 everywhere. You should've also added Mega Audino. And maybe Mega Banette.
There are no words to describe how dirty Palkia and Dialga were done, after Giratina had it's offenses and defenses completely swapped, after Groudon and Kyogre got a boost of 100 to their BST, all cases with new useful abilities They got 20 stat points moved around and still having just pressure and Telepathy And mind you, for the same price of being locked into an item Couldn't we have gotten new special abilities at least Gamefreak?
Don't they still get like 20% boost on their stabs because of their orb? But I agree that they should have different abilities to have a bigger seperation from their base forms
@EggscellentTree oh yes they do get the 20% boost to their STABS, I forgot that, but so does Giratina, and both forms of Giratina are fundamentally different from each other on how they play.
I feel like Wugtrio deserves a mention here since it's literally just Alolan Dugtrio 2.0 here Seriously, they already made a worse Dugtrio, then got together just to say, "What if we do the same exact thing, but make it longer?"
Hisuin Avalugg gets Sturdy and Mirror Coat along with its lower special defense. Guaranteed to KO almost any serious special attacker, then finish its part in the fight with an Ice Shard.
Meloetta Pirouette form It’s stat-spread, movepool, and the atm brand new Normal/Fighting typing was really promising too, only for all that to be wasted for the same reason Unovaian Zen Mode is here, except rather it costing your ability slot it costs your move slot in the form of Relic Song instead, which is even worse Say bye bye to any Banded or (physical) Scarfed Meloetta sets But hey at least there’s Mega Lopunny
17:47 "Unfortunately, Game Freak seemed to really prefer saving the good moves for the pokemon who were already good." So, just like they did with Megas. Yeah, there were some weaker/less popular pokemon that got megas, such as Audino, but they also gave megas to 4 of the, at the time, 7 pseudo legends (Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, and Garchomp) who very distinctly did not need them.
I'd love a series where you analyze non-traditional pokemon games, like Pokemon Go, Pokken, or Unite. Almost every single regional form in Pokemon Go PVP is an upgrade from its standard form. Galarian Stunfisk was one of the top used pokemon for years before the mud shot nerf. Alolan Sandslash is still one of the best pokemon in Great League
The worst part about Hisuian Avalugg is that its abilities are all worthless. Why does it get Strong Jaw with zero boosted moves? Ice Body is kind of funny since the best legal Trick Room setters (the Slowkings) also set Snow by doing so, but it's certainly no Rock Head Arcanine or Sharpness Samurott.
H-Avalugg would have been great as a ground/ice type. Ice/Rock is amazing offensively but the absolutely worse defensively outside of grass/bug. Terastalization is the only thing that allows it to be usable.
Atleast the Gigantamax Designs look all really good, especially Giga Cinderace. And atleast they weren´t as obvious... Compared to Mega Evolution which had many bad ones (with minor Exceptions).
Mirroring Darmanitan, Gen 5 had another stat swapping form in Meloetta. Cool in design and theory. But in actual practice, you don’t want to have to use a move to transform and then switch between a physical and special attacker in battle. It was really cool how Gen 5 played with stats (also introducing moves like Psyshock, Psystrike, and Secret Sword). But when it came to implementing those mechanics as Pokemon forms, they didn’t go off as well as they could have. And then Gen 6 improved on this by focusing on typing (Ion Deluge, Burn Up, Flying Press, Freeze-Dry, Pixilate, Aerialate, Refrigerate, etc.)
To give an idea how much Origin form is a downgrade for Dialga, recently Smogon created the "Ubers UU", a place to give a home for the Pokémon that are bad for Ubers but still too powerful for OU. Before the second DLC not only Dialga-Origin was a C rank (basically unusable), but it shared the rank with CROCALOR and CUTIEFLY! (Trying to fill the role of their evolutions (banned since they had usage in Ubers) as "roadblock for the local Zacian form" and "fast Sticky Web setter" respectively)
My suggestions for the their signature moves changing in their origin forms: DIalga: Roar of time works like blood moon Palkia: Spacial rend works like Flower trick but special Giratina: Shadow force's power goes down to 100 but it raises its atk and spatk by +1 the first turn. Has 95 Acc
If we look across titles, Alolan Raticate actually wasn’t pointless. It recently won the Pokémon Go event at the Gdańsk regional, because the combat system rewards relative bulk, and its typing and moves made it a strong meta read
I hate the fact that these regional forms BARELY change the stats up. Ten to twenty stat swap, like that change much for most, especially Hisuian Avalugg. The Pokemon could've been a deceivingly fast Ice/Rock type. From it's stats of Hp- 95 Atk- 127 Def- 184 SpAtk- 34 SpDef- 36 Speed- 38 to maybe making it a very frail Special speed attacker. It would've been hilarious. Say the stats of Hp- 38 Atk- 34 Def- 36 SpAtk- 127 SpDef- 154 Speed- 125
I remember thinking when Mega Beedrill came out that it would be cool if Raticate got the same treatment - a Mega that sheds unnecessary stats and becomes a fast, hard hitting glass cannon. And I wanted it to be Normal/Dark with Strong Jaw to power up STAB Crunch, Hyper Fang, and other coverage Fangs. So when I heard about Alolan Raticate, I was first excited, then instantly disappointed by its design and stats. Missed opportunity to be sure
Origin-Dialga and Origin-Palkia really just needed actually decent abilities. I was thinking Filter and Speed Boost respectively to lean into their stat buffs. This also mimics something like Sitrus Berry or Choice Scarf respectively in an Abilities=Items kind of way
I think they should change Darmanitan's Zen Mode so that it starts the battle in Zen Mode (at least it should work that way for regular Darm... maybe not Galarian Darmanitan) and stays in Zen Mode until it has less than 25% of its max HP. That way you can start the battle firing off powerful Special attacks, and as soon as you're below 25% HP you switch back to regular Darm and can fire off a final Flare Blitz or two as a desperation attack.
An even worse feather on G-Max Orbeetle’s cap is that it can’t even really abuse the Gravity it sets up. Its frail, so it dies too fast. It Maxed, so the moves have 100% accuracy anyway. And even if it survives, the only thing it might wanna use is Hypnosis, which turns to Guard, so it actually has to wait for Dynamax to be over… and this thing is not surviving three turns even with double HP.
Maybe we should consider unban arena trap dugtrio, like many other ubers such as Blaziken. We now have many more priority moves, multi hits and 120 speed is not THAT big now
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Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
No.
7:45
Was Kevin trying to say both "Passivity" and "Specificity" at the same time?
Sucks that all these good games are for PC and not console
Shoutout To Hisuian Avalugg looking at Avalugg’s typing and being like “Nah, I can make this worse”
Great, now he's horribly weak to knife cuts and punches
Hey, now we know why it went extinct.
And this is to go, even further behind!
H avalug trainer: take you best shot jerk face
Me with my butter knife: it’ll be right. Between the eyes.
Unlike Alolan Muk, Galarian Weezing, and Hisuian Samurott, who are straight up upgrades to their regular formes with their secondary types, Hisuian Avalugg is a massive downgrade. Ice/Rock is that bad of a typing and its Speed boost is simply laughable. The only good thing it got out of the exchange is a stronger Ice STAB in Mountain Gale although it’s still too slow to flinch things unless it’s in Trick Room.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the fact that Hisuian Avalugg signature more has a 30% flinch chance despite Avalugg being one of the slowest Pokémons in the entire series.
Even worse, its niche in Trick Room was dimished by the fact that it GAINED speed, turning a 28 to a whopping...38. This is enough to where it wouldnt be able to outspeed other trick room pokemon. Its also not enough to boost to sweep outside of that. Oh, it doesnt learn rock polish either
@@sterling8389Talk about no longer under speeding Amoonguss.
@@sterling8389does it learn Curse? It’s still dead weight if it does, just by virtue of its existence, but hey at least it’s an option
It also bafflingly gets the ability Strong Jaw, which could potentially make it a niche wallbreaker if its only STAB move boosted by it wasn’t Ice Fang. When boosted, Ice Fang has a base power of 97.5 which makes it practically the same as Mountain Gale but 10% more accurate and with an actually usable Freeze effect without Trick Room up.
Very strange that an ability it has exclusive access to over its base form has no niche because of its movepool, and by using this exclusive ability, you’re also undermining its signature attack. Such a weirdly designed Pokemon.
I’m convinced Hisuian Avalugg was made as a joke
Shoutouts to H-Zoroark being the most unique typing in the entire franchise...
Only for Bitter Malice to be left with a bitter change upon Gen 9. Would it kill them to just make it drop Sp.Atk instead of Atk, since Frostbite in Legends was essentially the Special version of Burn?
I think the intent was to let you pair it with Snarl, so you usd attacks guaranteed to lower both offensive stats while still dealing damage
It also could've just, you know, had a 10% chance to freeze, if Infernal Parade can still be a status forcing hex why can't this?
Count Empleon in there too, it's literally the only water steel type in the entire game.
@@SkillHunterThousandManPlanI think my brain just exploded from learning this
Zubat line: yeah, so cute.
@@RandalfElVikingothere’s three of them tho.
It’s still so sad that Primal Kyogre and Groudon got +100 to stats and broken abilities while Origin Dialga and Palkia has to hold an item for minimum gains for the gen 9 meta. I get wanting to be similar to Giritina Origin but in that case give them better distribution of stats and abilities like…something other than Pressure again.
Giratina doesn't get any more stats in his origin form so dialga and palkia will not too it's obvious
@@zenoxgaming7421everyone would have loved it if they buffed giratina stats' along side Palkia and Dialga in order to give a bit more impact to them in their alternative forms though
I think prime Kyogre and Grondon
were supposed to be a stronger form than themselves, whereas Origin Dialga and Palkia were meant to be alternate forms, just like what Giratina is.
@@nicolaswhitehouse3894and would you look at that, being item locked for no extra stats isn't that good. Getting a better ability and better stats is way better than that. They probably should have made it so all three of them change form outside of battle, similarly to how Kyurem, Neceozma and Calyrex fusions are made
@@unaffectedbycardeffects9152I think the devs weren’t trying to make Dialga and Palkia a better Pokemon. They were focusing on the lore more than the gameplay. They were inspired by the original form of Giratina and thought that it should apply the same for them, with an item that is locked to it.
7:21
A running joke me and my friends have is that Hisuian Avalugg’s only good niche is that it’d make an amazing coffee table for the living room.
I'm gonna be real... H. Avalugg would be a terrible coffee table
@@brendantw Agree, the coffee will get cold and iced coffee will get frozen
Ngl I named the Hisuian Avalugg in my Legends playthrough "The Table"
🥷's call H-Avalugg "the Table"
@@The_MoodiThey call it the what!?
A furniture of sorts!?
Dialga: **looks at Giratina** Yeah, that's one fine-looking origin forme **looks at itself** Why doesn't mine look like that?!
At least now we know Dialga goes to the same pharmacy as Mr. Krabs! Wonder if Origin Dialga swallowed the Adamant Crsytal like a huge pill causing its neck to expand like that...
A lot of people have a problem with origin dialga’s legs too but I honestly don’t hate them.
I only have an issue with the neck situation.
@@THGMR-ox7sd Ngl, Imo Palkia's origin form looks a lot lot worse. Like, why did bro turn into a horse all of a sudden? Regular Palkia had such a cool design but they just butchered the origin form
@@facade6927For me it's the fact that he's devoid of arms, the centaur look could have been interesting, but instead they created a monstrosity that is somewhere in between
lmfao. might as well have scrapped them, who the f at clownfeak gave the ok to those horrible designs
To Alolan Dugtrio's credit, it is still much better than Kantonian Dugtrio post-Arena Trap ban. It ended up being a solid mon in PU in Gen 7, while normal Dugtrio is eternally stuck as a useless mon without its broken ability.
Soon to be called "The Wobbaffet Theorem"
Fun fact: Alolan Sandshrew is considered the best Pokémon… in a format about dying the fastest.
And Avalugg is the best defensive Pokémon in Inverse Battles.
Alolan sandslash is good in go pvp/gbl
Alolan sandshrew is also pretty good in Gen 9 LC
Tell that to Haydunn. When he gives it LOTS of support and versus an average opponent it CLEANS!
It’s really strange how they CONSTANTLY gave the Dugtrio variants abilities that requires the user to take contact damage, and funnily both abilities are very similar as they lower speed (Tangling Hair and Gooey)
Inside, Whack-a-mole joke?
🤓 actually wugtrio is its own pokemon not a dugtrio variant
@@Kannon_Shots It probably wishes it was a form instead, because then it'd at least have the glory of being a form of an extremely broken Pokémon instead of just being one of the worst in the game...
Alolan dugtrio is actually great in LGPE meta.
Whats even funnier, is that alolan Dugtrio has more defense then kantoian Dugtrio but it's only by 10 points, so Gamefreak actually did make it tankier but not by enough that anyone who isn't a nerd like me would actually notice.
Palkia and Dialga origin forms were so disappointing. At least Palkia Origin has 120 speed, so that's something ig
O-Palkia has seen some niche usage in VGC with Dragon Cheer creating the Funny Crit Button TM
Dialga sucks, both forms
Palkia-Origin would've been so much better if it existed in an earlier gen of Ubers, but Ubers got supremely speed-crept in the past two gens with demons like Zacian-C, Eternatus, and Koraidon.
@@the_bookworm8281 imagine if origin forms were kinda like primals. A stat increase with holding an item. Would make sense for the Creation Trio right?
Each of them retain good stats. The only thing holding them back is their bad abilities and inability to hold items. If each form got new abilities (Dialga-O got filter and Palkia-O got speed boost), there would be more versatility and reason to use them.
@@PCG06 They want to keep it consistent with Giratina-Origin, who has the same BST but simply swaps the offensive and defensive stats (100/120/100/120 -> 120/100/120/100).
It is strange, however, that they did not give the new forms new abilities like what they did with Giratina-Origin.
Actually come to think of it, it is kind of weird in general that Dialga and Palkia were given Pressure as an ability in the first place, when the generation prior they gave ultra busted Weather abilities to their box cover legends. Is it because Groudon and Kyogre have 10 less BST than other box cover legends? Bizarre choice regardless.
Wow, this reply to a comment went off on a massive tangent. lol
I really wish they had converted the GMax moves into standard signature moves in SV like they had with Clangerous Soul Blaze being converted to Clangerous Soul in SwSh for Kommo-o. Granted, some of their effects would need nerfs, like the status ones being made percent chance based, but they all likely would’ve either been big boons to their respective mons’ viability or at least given them a niche. Imagine Copperajah with Steel Surge, setting the sharp metal hazard in the same vein as Ceaseless Edge & Stone Axe.
Drednaw’s G-Max move would’ve been converted to into Stone Axe
@@goGothitaLOL G-Max STONEsurge should've been Rock type. Drednaw probably would've been a very good G-Max sweeper if it could set rain and rocks all while attacking at the same time.
Idk what Gamefreak was thinking with this mon🤦♂
Unfortunate issue is that copperajah's regular ability is sheer force, so unless it got a second ability the effect would never go off unless you got one with heavy metal.
@@TLNT2103-zg3sb Dang, I didn't know that Sheer Force affects moves like Stone Axe.Idk why they're treated as secondary effects(like Ice Beam, Iron Head, Scald) instead of primary effects (like Knock Off, Dragon Tail, Thief)
Imagine Garbodor with a poisoning Icy Wind or Corviknight with a damaging Defog, it’d be so cool
Cursola helped out Corsola by letting their dead cousin hold an Eviolite.
It also helped give people existential dread.
After Kyogre and Groudon got meta defining new forms with boosted stats, awesome designs, and busted abilities, I was hoping that the gods of time and space would get something similar.
Boy, was I disappointed
I don't understand why you guys think they will get a buff in stats origin form giratina doesn't have any extra stat why should dialga and palkia
@@Krumpins i think the design is pretty cool
@zenoxgaming7421 They should've at least given them some good abilities like ones that automatically set Trickroom and Gravity for Dialga and Palkia respectively. Even if they just fully copied Giratina and gave them both Levitate, I'd say that at least Dialga-Origin would be significantly more viable.
@zenoxgaming7421 that's a fair point. But even when you just compare them just to Giratina's origin form, they still come up short for me.
Ignoring designs since that's subjective (even though I'm pretty sure everyone agrees Giratina's looks way better) Giratina's completely changes how it's played: turning it from a defensive pokemon to an offensive one, so both forms have their own competitive niches.
Dialga and Palkia's, on the other hand, just swaps their high attack with a more useful stat, making it so there's no real reason to use the originals, while still being too small a buff to get them more usage
@@Sleeper800Do you want to ruin VGC?
Dialga & Palkia: “But how?! We’ve taken on this form to harness the power of Father! Why isn’t it enough?!”
Giratina, chuckling that soon becomes all-out laughter: “That’s always been your problem, my foolish siblings. You were ever the model children to Father and eager to please Him. Your new “forms” are nothing but a pathetic imitation of His, while mine…”
_Giratina transforms_
“Has always been my own strength.”
Is this some kind of reference?
@@anwarhussain5830Nah, I saw the thumbnail and got inspired.
peak fiction 🔥🔥🔥✍
Virgin
@tonyelgoatferguson809 Bro has an MMA pfp and hates reading. Who'd have guessed?
Darmanitan's Zen Mode should start as zen, letting it actually take advantage of the bulk. Plus, from a fluff perspective, it would make sense if it's at peace right up until someone strikes first. Would it make Zen useful? Probably not, but it would make more sense
FR
Wat, you're on to something
lore wise, darmanitan zen mode should be its default while its tk form should be the revenge attacker after poking it too much
or what? the lore explanation is that after receiving so many hits it cooled down and now its at peace with whatever happens?
In balanced hackmons or “totally legitimate” versions of Pokémon, I’ve seen them just give Zen Mode Darmanitan Sheer Force like base Darm. Or any other ability for that matter (like Magic Guard which also prevents life orb damage like Sheer Force but feels like the more special/psychic version of it) because technically, if you had a Zen Darm without Zen Mode as its ability, it can’t change back at over half health. Then it can use its bulk with leftovers and it can actually use its special attack stat before it dies
Also a signature move that is psychic special in Zen and turns into fire physical in angry mode.
It would be slightly weaker than alternative moves with the boon of combining what would have been two attacks into one reliable one leaving more room for other moves.
Honorable mention goes to Mega Garchomp. Losing 10 points of speed wasn’t worth it since it gets out speed by the 100 speed stat Pokémon. Plus Life Orb Garchomp hits hard as its Mega Form.
I believe they already touched on that when talking about Mega Forms in another video. I don't think Mega Forms should be conflated with regional forms.
Alolan dugtrio lost speed for defence...
Those wigs must be too heavy to get snatched :'(
Rotom-Flying should have been mentioned, not only does it's Ability become useless unless under very specific circumstances, but it also gets weaker with it's STAB being Air Slash over Shadow Ball which is has more common resistances. It's typing also makes it weak to Stealth Rock and Ice-types instead of being immine to Rapid Spin and Fighting-type attacks.
At least Rotom-Fan has higher stats than base rotom
I used to equip air balloon to rotom fan.
@@williamjewell6247Sure, it does... But Fan was NU with a niche in RU while Base was RU with a niche in UU all the way back in gen 5, right after the 5 forms' type changes; and it has only gotten worse since.
Being weak to the pesky pebbles and having weak STABs really hurts it.
@@darkfiredragon3410Electric/Flying is an amazing typing, though.
@@skeetermania3202 But that's about it. Rotom-Fan keeping Levitate wastes its ability slot with redundancy, and its only Flying STAB is Air Slash, the weakest move Rotom gets changing forms
We all hoped the origin forms would be closer to primal form in terms of power. Instead they look goofy af and barely changed at all. Like imagine if they had special abilities, Dialga can skip charge and recharge turns (cuz time) while Palkia has an accuracy and secondary effect chance boost (cuz space)
I even would be fine if they made abilities that gave the modifications to their signature moves that LA had.
Speaking of secondary effect chance boosting, did you know Spacial Rend had a boosted crit change when used by Palkia-O back in Legends: Arceus (12.5% crit rate to 50% crit rate)? In a somewhat similar vein, Dialga-O and Giratina-O had the power of their respective signature moves boosted, though those might have just been to simulate the boost they would have gotten from their orbs (since held items weren't in Legends: Arceus).
Can you also guess which move mechanics never made it to S/V?
A free Power Herb on Dialga would've been amazing since its signature move is already a Dragon Hyper Beam so it synergizes with Roar of Time
Yeah, I don't understand how being the God of space ties into...accuracy boosts or effect chances.
@@ArtsyJet because someone who controls space shouldnt be able to miss because they can just bend space to make the attack hit. and the effect chance is basically so spacial rend always crits lol
Why Origin Dialga and Palkia DON'T have a different ability from their base forms is the greatest mystery, did they forget Giratina Origin's viability lied nearly all on it's ability?
The origin Palkia and Dialga were clearly an after thought. That’s why they just appear out of nowhere, and no explanation for the forms were ever given. We still don’t know why we haven’t seen these forms ever before if they could just transform. With the Primals there was the whole multiverse thing which explained the differences, and there was actual lore as to how they oost their original forms.
It's crazy to me that they brought over the origin form key items from Legends, originally making me think they were going to allow itemless form changes for them via a key item instead like Shaymin (this would buff Giratina too but he's really bad in VGC so it's needed) which would make both new forms very much worth using, but no, they changed the functionality of them to just all work like the griseous orb and even changed the original griseous orb to just not work like it used to... felt like such a missed opportunity, especially when the gen 3 superancient trio made out like bandits with their primal forms
Wassup Shay
5:20 i know yall don't cover the Lets Go games, but it is fair to mention that Alolan Dugtrio does fair better in these games. One of the few Steel types in that game, a type combo that quad resists stealth rock in a game you can't remove them, it works very well as a Zapdos counter.
If I remember right, Alolan Sandslash is also supposed to be good.
I'm surprised that G-Max Eevee wasn't mentioned alongside G-Max Meowth in terms of "Bad Pokemon with Bad G-Max Moves", given how vastly inferior G-Max Cuddle is to Max Strike.
I love the thumbnail 😂
Giratina is the only origin forme that doesn't look goofy or stupid
"screw your horse cosplays!"
I think it looks decent for the concept of an otherwordly being
Palkias looks sick af
@tommygenesisenthusiast it's literally a horse...
The origin forms all have aspects from Arceus
Soo that's interesting
Shoutout to eternal floette for never being released
Origin Forme Dialga and Palkia are just such missed opportunities. Both in terms of making them more competitive, but also because there's already so little connecting these two with their lore of being the creators of time and space. Cool, new abilities that tie into that theme would have fixed that, but instead they just got a slight base stat reshuffle.
Gamefreak be trolling with some of these, i swear.
Avalugg, a mon that was made for taking hits, could barely do it with the ice typing, and then they paired it with the 2nd worst defensive type in the game, rock.
Gave it a signature move with a flinch chance, on a mon with no speed...
And they traded Sp. Def for Spe, by 10 points
Also it doesn't even look that different, so you don't even get to enjoy a twist on a Pokemon. Say what you will about A!Sandslash, but at least it looks cool.
One other thing to mention about Zen Mode is that if Darmanitan recovers above half HP, it goes back to its regular form. If it was a permanent transformation, ala Zygarde’s Complete form, maybe then a recovery focused team or set could be occasionally worthwhile (or just fun).
Copperajah gmax form I think was the most interesting. Setting up steel type steal rocks is an interesting idea and I’d like to see it come back as an actual move
Banishing useless abilities would help older mons
Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Luxray, and Haxorus all nod in agreement. They all have rivalry as a second ability.
Shoutout to G-max Butterfree for getting G-max Befuddle, a Bug type max move that would inflict a random status effect (Poison, Sleep, or Paralysis) on the target 100% of the time. Basically just Dire Claw but even better. Too bad it was stuck on Butterfree...
@@mjdxp5688 At least it was pretty good in Gen 8 early on.
They should've made the move into a regular signature move for Butterfree in Gen 9 instead of having it stuck toa generational gimmick. Same goes for Copperajah with its Steel hazards
I feel Zen mode OG Darmanitan would do better if it got the treatment that Bloodmoon Ursaluna got. In that it was a separate exclusive alternate form and got a unique ability or even kept Sheer Force
Or if zen mode worked by activating based on if the move you clicked was physical or special, kinda like stance change.
Maybe give it built in lifesteal on moves
@@shirshobanerjee7751 Or just have Zen Mode activate the Zen form automatically and permanently like Arceus
Or even just have zen mode activate from the start rather than it being nearly KOd and have all of its moves scale off of its highest attacking state (kinda like a reverse psyshock effect) only while in zen mode then switch to normal while below 25% hp.
8:50 Your “Um Ackshually” voice sounds like Squidward. You should use it more often.
When Arceus gave the Origin forms to Dialga and Palkia, they found out who was His favorite...
I hope to Arceus that Game Freak has a "Pokemon Legends Eternatus" planned in the future
Cause if there's one concept that needs a second chance to be conceptually cool, it's Dynamaxing and Gigantanaxing
Imagine either a giant pokemon battle in a similar vein to Giant bowser or giant luigi battles in The Mario and luigi series
OR
just imagine riding on the back of your dynamax pokemon of Choice while you are in an arena fight against a rampaging gigantanax toxtricity
That'd be amazing!
I fully agree.
We NEED a legends game in galar and it better have a well written story because you know…
Shoutouts to Wugtrio for avoiding this list on the technicality of not being a regional form because OH DEAR GOD THAT BASTARD DESERVES A SPOT HERE.
9:59 I certainly learned something from the captions.
Decidueye being the worst Alola Starter competitively is given a second chance yet that second chance is way worse than its regular form
VGC Reg H says hi.
@skeetermania3202 that's the only thing it's good at along with it being the most used mon in ZU tier aside from these it's so ass. At least it has cool design though
Let me guess…
Because it’s too slow.
Poor decidueye 😢
The G-Max Fire Spin and Sand Tomb moves were actually better since both the regular version of the moves because they did a bit more damage and additionally trapped the opponent when you switch out. These were the only moves in all of Pokemon that can trap opponents while letting you manually switch.
Suggestions:
(Former) Signature Moves that didn’t help - Toxic Thread, Triple Kick, Blaze Kick, pre-buff Luster Purge+Mist Ball, Roar of Time, Freeze Shock+Ice Burn, Relic Song, Techno Blast, Mystical Fire in gen 6, Flying Press, Core Enforcer, Sparkling Aria, Trop Kick in singles, Shell Trap, Drum Beating, Jaw Lock, Octolock, No Retreat?, Aura Wheel, Snap Trap, Freezing Glare, Thunderous Kick, Thunder Cage, Bitter Malice, Shelter, Mountain Gale? Triple Arrows?, Triple Dive, Spin Out, most signature Z-moves
(Former) Signature Abilities that didn’t help - Water Veil, Magican, Flower Veil+Symbosis, Grass Pelt, Gooey/Tangling Hair, Harvest? Long Reach, Liquid Voice in singles, Steakout? Schooling, Mercliess, Corrosion in gens 7-8, Emergency Exit ofc, Water Compaction, RKS System, Steam Engine in singles, Sand Spit+Seed Sower, Perish Body, Screen Cleaner, Ice Face, Pastel Veil, Mimicry, Guard Dog, Anger Shell, Mycelium Might ofc, Toxic Chain?
THAT
Groudon and Kyogre: Get fantastic remakes that are compatible with the main games of that gen that also integrated the main mechanics of that gen into Hoenn perfectly and then also get amazing new forms that tied into the lore and surpassed even the megas.
Dialga and Palkia: Get "faithful" remakes that did nothing interesting and were then shoved into a much better spinoff but ultimately weren't that important and get turned into funny horses.
Pearl was my first game... why must they do this to me...
G-Max Melmetal would actually be pretty good if someone was running a Choice Scarf. G-Max Meltdown subjects mons to Torment, meaning it wouldn't be able to use the same move twice, which puts Choice Scarf users at a major disadvantage.
that sounds good on paper until you realize that the Scarfed mon that outsped Melmetal on the previous turn can still use its attack for another turn. Unless Melmetal somehow outspeeds a Scarf mon then the Torment doesnt count the move used before Torment became applied.
Unless you've got Melmetal in Trick Room, then its decent ig. But at that point youre already in such an advantageous position that I dont think Torment would be more useful than a Def boost.
Gigantamax Kingler makes me so so sad because it's easily my favorite,, you'll always be goated in my heart, crab
the line at 20:10 came so out of left-field it had me laughing until a tears were shed LOL
i feel like if avalugg-h was ice / ground instead it could have been decent, ground typing would (maybe) remove the need for boots and give it a good immunity (which doesn't help it with the other moves of electric mons but still)
Ice / Ground would have been a better typing in the long run. Amazing STAB combination, an Electric immunity, Sneaky Pebble neutrality, immunity to Sandstorm. Life would be good.
You can get that too with Ice/Steel. It loses offensive potential, but it has the addition of being immune to Toxic Spikes. Ice/Ground doesn't give it any ×4 weaknesses tho
Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
I'm not the biggest fan of running mixed attacking sets on mons with few exceptions(such as running Fake Out on special attackers like Salazzle) mainly because it is better for both EVs and nature's to focus on one attack Stat or the other depending on the mons natural stats and what role I have planned for them and so when I already EV train a certain amount into one attacking stat I can focus more EVs into its bulk of my choosing or speed. Same with natures. I find it easier to run modest or timid for special attackers than to run mild or rash or naive or hasty for a mixed special attacker. That's just my take on mixed attackers.
Meloetta’s alternate form is in the same boat as Darm’s where it could be good but the set up puts it at a massive disadvantage
Shoutouts to G-Max Melmetal being ultra nonexistent because Dynamax is banned in Smogon singles and Mythicals are always banned in VGC
But in the event that G-Max Melmetal does get to do the whole "exist" thing, what does G-Max Meltdown get you?
Applying Torment to the enemies
Keep in mind, Dynamaxed Pokemon are immune to mental statuses like Encore, Taunt, Torment, etc., so it's more often than not going to be having no extra effect, essentially, and is thus a worse option compared to Max Steelspike
Which leads to the ultimate comedy being that Melmetal is the only 'mon with a G-Max form that cannot have it added or removed with the Dynamax Soup from Isle of Armor, so the Home gift Melmetal is basically worse compared to any regular Melmetal you could get from GO
Lovely.
Dialga Origin is so bad that even in Ubers RU, it's unviable. You really couldn't do more than giving +20 Sp. Def?
This just goes to show that Gigantamax is Walmart mega evolution.
16:55 to be fair, I imagine none of the male pokemon would want to be on the receiving end of that
I think the biggest problem with origin palkia and dialga is that for some asinine reason, they are still shackled with a pressure as abilities which are terrible to useless on them.
Origin Giratina at the very least had levitate which gave it a defensive immunity to ground which stacked on top of its immunity to fighting and normal and resistance to 6 types thus essentially making it resilient against half of the entire type chart. Origin palkia at least could do more with its added speed but origin dialga has nothing that stands out over its base form (I would have thought it’d do an inverse to origin palkia where dialga becomes slower to take better advantage of trick room but nope gamefreak couldn’t even do that)
The only problem origin Giratina has (aside from general power creep) is its reliance on its held item which they could have fixed (this could also apply to dialga and palkia) if the useless redundant clone items of the adamant, lustrous and griseous orbs (adamant crystal, lustrous globe and griseous core) were key items that enabled their form change without losing an item slot so they have more flexibility. Granted Giratina will still face difficulties since speed creep has gotten way too out of hand but it still would have had more to work with if its item slot wasn’t shackled.
Tbh origin palkia and dialga alongside many old legends don’t need primal groudon/kyogre levels of stat buffs, they just need to flat out replace pressure as an ability to something thats more useful (while also making sense thematically) or just add secondary abilities in addition to their hidden ones as that ability is actively making most old legendaries worse in the long term.
If anyone needs to be the new primals it's the origin dragons, at least for the lore scaling
I mean I get the devs where trying to focus more on the lore rather than gameplay. It makes sense that these pokes holds an orb because they come from a different plane of existence. And it makes sense that origin Dialga and Palkia shares the same trait than origin Giratina but what I don’t understand is that the devs are trying to make Origin Dialga and Palkia, similar to origin Giratina, but they forgot to put an ability that is different from pressure. I mean I understand there logic, but at least they only need to do the job well.
@@nicolaswhitehouse3894 I get that as well especially with the mechanic being functionally similar to Arceus’s multitype but the problem I have with the item thing is gamefreak made that worse in legends arceus and SV by introducing whats literally a redundant item set and stripped the griseous orbs form change effect to put it into the said redundant items as a weird roundabout way of avoiding giving the form change effect to the original adamant and lustrous orbs. This would have been fine if the adamant crystal, lustrous globe and griseous core functioned like in legends Arceus where they were operated like key items but instead their just clone items that stole the form change effect from the og orbs which in turn added unnecessary bloat to the item pool for no reason. it’s an atrocious approach to the origin form as a form changing mechanic and not only that but origin dialga and palkia not having new abilities kinda just makes these forms feel like an afterthought.
@@mectainea5575I agree 100%. I get the same feeling as well of an idea that is unfinished. Like they were trying to do something but ended up not doing it completely.
If you include Zen Mode Darmanitan, you should also include Castform as his forms still had 70 everywhere.
You should've also added Mega Audino. And maybe Mega Banette.
There are no words to describe how dirty Palkia and Dialga were done, after Giratina had it's offenses and defenses completely swapped, after Groudon and Kyogre got a boost of 100 to their BST, all cases with new useful abilities
They got 20 stat points moved around and still having just pressure and Telepathy
And mind you, for the same price of being locked into an item
Couldn't we have gotten new special abilities at least Gamefreak?
Don't they still get like 20% boost on their stabs because of their orb? But I agree that they should have different abilities to have a bigger seperation from their base forms
@EggscellentTree oh yes they do get the 20% boost to their STABS, I forgot that, but so does Giratina, and both forms of Giratina are fundamentally different from each other on how they play.
I feel like Wugtrio deserves a mention here since it's literally just Alolan Dugtrio 2.0 here
Seriously, they already made a worse Dugtrio, then got together just to say, "What if we do the same exact thing, but make it longer?"
I don't care for normal Dugtrio, Alolan Dugtrio, OR Wugtrio.
Hisuin Avalugg gets Sturdy and Mirror Coat along with its lower special defense. Guaranteed to KO almost any serious special attacker, then finish its part in the fight with an Ice Shard.
Avalugg-Hisui doesn't learn Ice Shard.
As much as I love gimmick builds and type-changing in Pokemons, Zen mode Darmanitan makes me sad how completely impossible it is to use.
What Hissuian Avalugg needed was Solid Rock. Then maybe it might have been able to work as a wall
Nah, that wouldn't even come close to saving Avalugg
Meloetta Pirouette form
It’s stat-spread, movepool, and the atm brand new Normal/Fighting typing was really promising too, only for all that to be wasted for the same reason Unovaian Zen Mode is here, except rather it costing your ability slot it costs your move slot in the form of Relic Song instead, which is even worse
Say bye bye to any Banded or (physical) Scarfed Meloetta sets
But hey at least there’s Mega Lopunny
I wonder why Galarian Rapidash isn’t on here. It and regular Rapidash are in Gen 8 ZU. Not even the Galarian form was able to save Rapidash.
Next: Signature items that DIDN’T help these Pokemon
Lucky punch.
17:47 "Unfortunately, Game Freak seemed to really prefer saving the good moves for the pokemon who were already good."
So, just like they did with Megas. Yeah, there were some weaker/less popular pokemon that got megas, such as Audino, but they also gave megas to 4 of the, at the time, 7 pseudo legends (Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, and Garchomp) who very distinctly did not need them.
I mean too be fair Metagross at least gets a pass for being the ace of the regional champion of the game
Think a shout out to Galarian Mr Mime and Mr Rime as well…
6:21 what did alolan dugtrio do to deserve getting called out like that man 😭
The WORST thing about H-Avalugg is that its signature move's secondary effect is FLINCHING!
Yep, on something as slow as a tortoise with a broken leg.
I'd love a series where you analyze non-traditional pokemon games, like Pokemon Go, Pokken, or Unite.
Almost every single regional form in Pokemon Go PVP is an upgrade from its standard form. Galarian Stunfisk was one of the top used pokemon for years before the mud shot nerf. Alolan Sandslash is still one of the best pokemon in Great League
The worst part about Hisuian Avalugg is that its abilities are all worthless. Why does it get Strong Jaw with zero boosted moves? Ice Body is kind of funny since the best legal Trick Room setters (the Slowkings) also set Snow by doing so, but it's certainly no Rock Head Arcanine or Sharpness Samurott.
H-Avalugg would have been great as a ground/ice type. Ice/Rock is amazing offensively but the absolutely worse defensively outside of grass/bug. Terastalization is the only thing that allows it to be usable.
" Duraludon's pp reducing effects" made me giggle
Hearing Kellen do the mocking voice at 8:49 actually made my day hahaha
Dialga-Origin with Levitate with only 1 weakness would be really cool
I think Runerigus and Wugtrio deserve a mention. Maybe Galarian Rapidash too
Shoutout to my favorite gmax Pokemon, Meowth, bc that's how i was able to buy all the clothes in the game
you ever kick ball through brick wall?
Hisuian Avalugg is ALOT smaller then imagined
Atleast the Gigantamax Designs look all really good, especially Giga Cinderace.
And atleast they weren´t as obvious...
Compared to Mega Evolution which had many bad ones (with minor Exceptions).
Mirroring Darmanitan, Gen 5 had another stat swapping form in Meloetta. Cool in design and theory. But in actual practice, you don’t want to have to use a move to transform and then switch between a physical and special attacker in battle.
It was really cool how Gen 5 played with stats (also introducing moves like Psyshock, Psystrike, and Secret Sword). But when it came to implementing those mechanics as Pokemon forms, they didn’t go off as well as they could have.
And then Gen 6 improved on this by focusing on typing (Ion Deluge, Burn Up, Flying Press, Freeze-Dry, Pixilate, Aerialate, Refrigerate, etc.)
Why Giratina giving Dialga backshots in the thumbnail
Another FSG W, I love these videos so much ❤
Keep up the good work 👍
To give an idea how much Origin form is a downgrade for Dialga, recently Smogon created the "Ubers UU", a place to give a home for the Pokémon that are bad for Ubers but still too powerful for OU.
Before the second DLC not only Dialga-Origin was a C rank (basically unusable), but it shared the rank with CROCALOR and CUTIEFLY!
(Trying to fill the role of their evolutions (banned since they had usage in Ubers) as "roadblock for the local Zacian form" and "fast Sticky Web setter" respectively)
15:44 This made me sad
9:20 This made cry
12:33 This made my brain itch
Dugtrio's Alolan form certainly helped its beauty. That majestic hair is worth a team slot by itself.
My suggestions for the their signature moves changing in their origin forms:
DIalga: Roar of time works like blood moon
Palkia: Spacial rend works like Flower trick but special
Giratina: Shadow force's power goes down to 100 but it raises its atk and spatk by +1 the first turn. Has 95 Acc
Would you guys consider making a video on late gen evolutions that changed a pokemon game entirely? (like anihleape for example)
If we look across titles, Alolan Raticate actually wasn’t pointless. It recently won the Pokémon Go event at the Gdańsk regional, because the combat system rewards relative bulk, and its typing and moves made it a strong meta read
I completely forgot what the g-max forms looked like or existed
I hate the fact that these regional forms BARELY change the stats up. Ten to twenty stat swap, like that change much for most, especially Hisuian Avalugg. The Pokemon could've been a deceivingly fast Ice/Rock type. From it's stats of
Hp- 95
Atk- 127
Def- 184
SpAtk- 34
SpDef- 36
Speed- 38
to maybe making it a very frail Special speed attacker. It would've been hilarious. Say the stats of
Hp- 38
Atk- 34
Def- 36
SpAtk- 127
SpDef- 154
Speed- 125
Frosty Flutter Mane
Ah yes, the literal permafrost glacier should have a Speed stat of 125.
Gamefreak has had two different tries to give Dugtrio a facelift, between it's Alolan form, and Wugtrio, but they just can't seem to get it right.
How did Mega Garchomp not get any mention?
Mega Chomp was an underrated, very dangerous threat in ORAS and SM OU, not nearly on par with these disasters
@@BKCplaysPokemon Expectations for it were still high, especially compared to the later Mega Salamence and Mega Metagross
The one G-Max I did actually get a little use out of early in the generation was Snorlax. The berry replenishing could be really handy.
I remember thinking when Mega Beedrill came out that it would be cool if Raticate got the same treatment - a Mega that sheds unnecessary stats and becomes a fast, hard hitting glass cannon. And I wanted it to be Normal/Dark with Strong Jaw to power up STAB Crunch, Hyper Fang, and other coverage Fangs. So when I heard about Alolan Raticate, I was first excited, then instantly disappointed by its design and stats. Missed opportunity to be sure
G - Max Copperajah steel spikes tho, nothing like stacking max hazzards.
Starting the video with the best new form, we'll played FSG
Origin-Dialga and Origin-Palkia really just needed actually decent abilities. I was thinking Filter and Speed Boost respectively to lean into their stat buffs. This also mimics something like Sitrus Berry or Choice Scarf respectively in an Abilities=Items kind of way
I think they should change Darmanitan's Zen Mode so that it starts the battle in Zen Mode (at least it should work that way for regular Darm... maybe not Galarian Darmanitan) and stays in Zen Mode until it has less than 25% of its max HP. That way you can start the battle firing off powerful Special attacks, and as soon as you're below 25% HP you switch back to regular Darm and can fire off a final Flare Blitz or two as a desperation attack.
An even worse feather on G-Max Orbeetle’s cap is that it can’t even really abuse the Gravity it sets up. Its frail, so it dies too fast. It Maxed, so the moves have 100% accuracy anyway. And even if it survives, the only thing it might wanna use is Hypnosis, which turns to Guard, so it actually has to wait for Dynamax to be over… and this thing is not surviving three turns even with double HP.
Maybe we should consider unban arena trap dugtrio, like many other ubers such as Blaziken. We now have many more priority moves, multi hits and 120 speed is not THAT big now
Lol love the thumbnail. Great video!
Some of those "bad" G-Max moves would've been good in singles, if only Smogon didn't stupidly ban it.