@@Ddube84 Have you tried the mixbox joystick controller it’s basically a joystick controller without the joystick so it’s like having a real big click button directional pad but it has the actual you know joystick buttons as well I think you’ll probably be into something like that
This really came out of the left field and I feel oddly shocked. The man who convinced me to buy not 1 but 2 8bitdo controllers praising the D-pad is... a keyboard guy? This... This just feels so wrong.
same but I kinda agree with him and I still love my pad controllers... All 6 of them... lol jk I just have the sn30 pro and pro plus and the pro controller jeez that is a lot
@@thelookingcat Do you feel good using the D-pad on the pro controller? I actually got the SN30 pro+ instead of the pro controller (because of the D-pad positioning advertised by someone) and have been using the WiiU pro controller with the 8bitdo adapter for 3D games. Also got the N30 Pro 2 for a small traveling option later on. Been actually using it surprisingly a lot because it is very quick to switch between devices (unlike the SN30 pro+).
@@Hooked_on_Gyro Such a shame to hear, that your having trouble with your SN30pro+ but happy to hear your liking the pro controller! Maybe someday I'll pick up one myself.
I mean, it’s interesting, but he did a similar video a while ago. Wulff has pushed keyboards for 2D games a while now Edited: this video isn’t new. This is probably the video I am talking about. I don’t know why a year old video I already watched was recommended to me. I hate TH-cam.
As someone who owns a HitBox controller, I can't believe I didn't think of using it for 2D platformers! Definitely trying that out for sure. Love the video and the effort put into this! (I've also outfitted my hitbox controller with keyboard switches via Gamer Finger buttons so this video definitely hit more home to me than I thought it would lol)
Watching something that has been self-evident to me ever since I booted up an NES emulator with Mario in the mid-90s be discovered by people two and a half decades later is oddly satisfying. I kind of thought it was common knowledge that a keyboard would be more precise because there's almost no chance of accidentally hitting a wrong direction like on a D-Pad, but I guess it's just a thing I found out by happenstance that I assumed everyone knew. Fun video! Let's see if you evolve to discovering that the numpad is by far the best thing to use on a keyboard for movement due to the key layout, 8462 is more spaced out, which for larger hands is much more comfortable than cramped WASD or arrow keys, plus the rectangular design means a lot more readily accessible keys in instances where you are using more buttons. Of course, using the numpad requires moving your keyboard over a bit (I know, a huge inconvenience) to retain the same hand position, but I think that's easy enough. Breakout, standalone keypads also work well but are too much trouble for me.
Actually, this is a great video, and I am intrigued if I can find an affordable keyboard/controller solution! I also thought you might be interested in checking out the RetroUSB Wireless Gamepad sometime. It's limited use because it's intended for NES games, and has only a D-pad, Select, Start, B, and A buttons; however, it uses *microswitches*-even for the D-pad! It seems like a good option for someone who likes both D-pads and keyboards, like yourself. There are a couple of reviews on TH-cam (including one of mine), if you're curious.
Yeah your right I’ve been wanting to use a keyboard mostly for typing messages faster but now that I have seen this I want a keyboard that is compatible with the Nintendo switch
@@ecmyersvids the keyboard is the worse part of PC gaming. cramping up your fingers to use WASD while your pinky reaches for the buttons you need to sprint and crouch, why your thumb, your most accurate, dexterous, and quickest finger, gets relegated to a single action, usually jump, tends to result in major hand cramps, as well as carpal tunnel and other wrist/hand degredation. Keyboards for gaming just aren't ergonomic in the least. You'd make a better case for using the button half of a left handed arcade board or a gaming keypad set up with better spacing
Im more of a bidet guy personally, you just turn the knob according to the button and it becomes as intuitive as can be. Not to mention it comes with a bonus of painting a new picasso blasted on your butt each playthrough, the quality of which easily lets you form an opinion about the game
i hooked up a midi keyboard and put it through a keybind program to try playing some games with it. didn’t go well, but shooters and sidescrollers were surprisingly playable.
Fun fact! In case you were still wondering, in melee there's the 8 directions/angles for Firefox in addition to 4 angles in between each of them for a total of 48 different angles with that hitbox style controller, the Frame 1.
And that's why I like the joy cons! The "d-pad" is 4 separate buttons and at least for me, I feel better control over what I'm doing. But now I'm curious to try this
As someone who made the switch from console to PC about a year ago, I can't overstate how insanely useful and intuitive a keyboard is for playing games. Especially once you play enough to understand the somewhat universal "language" of keyboard gaming (WASD for movement, shift to run, R to reload, etc.) that applies across several games. You can rebind anything to your preference. Just great. Be careful how deep you get into custom keyboards, though... It is a vast, addictive, expensive rabbit hole.
@@dxtremecaliber I disagree, at this point the only games I use controller for are side scrollers. Joysticks suck and using menus with that or a d pad is terrible once you've used a mouse for those things.
@@codexnecrogeddon depends on the game, my favourite genre is racing and a joystick is much better for steering than a keyboard, especially if you don’t a wheel, it’s the same with aviation games
Just a heads up; you can also try to just plug your keyboard directly into the switch and see if your games picks it up. For example One Step From Eden just works with a plugged in keyboard (granted, you cant change the layout and the ingame prompts still assume a controller.. so you have to try a bit until you find all the keys the game uses (it also helps if you know the pc version, since the switch version uses the same keyboard layout)). So yeah... this might save you a bit of money, if your games directly accept a keyboard.
No joke, I completed Mega Man X and Chrono Trigger the first time on a laptop and I didn't own a PC controller. I couldn't play for too long without getting aches in the back of my hands from constantly picking my fingers up. D-pads for me!
Correction on Firefox Angles with hitbox style controllers, Frame1 controllers and SmashBox controllers (the leading Smash Bros hitbox controller models) have control stick modifier buttons, allowing for somewhere around 40-50 angles. Other than that, very informative and interesting video!
Really excited to see what you do with the 8bitdo arcade stick. I have one myself and have been slowly customizing it, but switching out the lever to keys sounds really interesting!
One of your best videos Bob. Very informative and thought provoking. Never really been interested in keyboard gaming but has given me a lot of think about. Looking forward to seeing 3D World tonight on Twitch!
Bob, I commend your search for the 'Holy Grail' of D-pads. It was not the easiet of problems to solve and you have demonstrated great preserverance and focus on one of the most abominable pursuits since the first console mankind has produced.
You can hit a large number of firefox angles on controllers like the frame 1, B0XX, and Smash Box by holding modifiers along with your general angle to hit more specific spots. You can add c stick on top of that to get even more.
Is it more intuitive than it sounds? Having to use multiple buttons at the same time for essentially one input doesn’t seem ideal. I’m a mouse and keyboard gamer at heart. I hate PlayStation controllers, but Xbox controllers feel pretty good to me, so I’ve never tried any of these alternate hybrid controllers.
When I was young and broke I finished the GBA Castlevanias all on my old keyboard during thesis, since I had no money to buy anything else. And it was great, not really just because I had to use it out of necessity, but the accuracy is really there. I think it just needs getting used to, since after a while using the right hand for the directions can mess with your muscle memory.
"Man discovers mixbox, acts like he's discovered fire, literally everyone who has been using keyboards for fighting games and racing games is unamused."
I still have muscular memory from the almost ten years playing emulators on my desktop computer. The difference between our setups is that I use to use the keyboard arrows for directions and ASZX for action buttons. I'm not left-handed, but strangely that worked better for me.
this controller looks amazing, the second you showed it i was blown away! this looks like the perfect controller for me. although i was definitely not expecting it to be $350USD
i got into mechanical keyboards recently, so now i just wanna get a diy kit for the fightboard mx so i can build it myself. could be fun to play games with it, too
I was going to build a mixbox, but ended up going with an extended hitbox that has an extra button for up, I think best of both worlds, and the buttons I used crown that use the Cherry MX keyboard switches. Can't wait to finish the build, need a drill press to do some precision drilling, so a few more weeks.
I got a hitbox, that bigger bottom button essentially acts like a space bar/jump button. At first I thought it didn’t make sense either but it really does work wonders
I do think using a hitbox style controller for a while helped me understand how I was screwing up inputs and allowed me to be deliberate with my timings, so even when I played on pad again, I was better than before still.
I've always had a hard time finding good controllers that don't connect via bluetooth, or that have a bad d-pad or it's in a bad position. The only 2D game I've played willingly on keyboard was Cave Story, and it worked fine. I wouldn't do it again. But after seeing this, maybe I would...
honestly, Hitboxes make more sense if you consider the "Up" button at the bottom to be "Jump", like a spacebar in some keyboard controls. It doesn't work great if you're playing Zangief though.
The box style controllers that Leffen's is talking about and using have modifiers to get some additional firefox angles as well as tilt functions, so they somewhat make up for the "digital" nature of the controller for the more "analog" inputs. The main downside, besides the learning curve, to the current line of box controllers for smash is either they're pretty expensive (except for the Frame1 Light, that one's pretty reasonable), unavailable a lot of the time because the companies making them are small, or both.
What are the FREAKIN CHANCES that yesterday I started researching keyboards and switches for the first time ever??? Whoa! I actually knew what you were talking about!
I'm just glad somebody else is becoming a Keyboard Guy like me. Also, that Fightboard MX really needs to return. I got one of the last ones with Cherry MX Speed Silver switches. If I even THINK about the switch, it actuates
I also recently realized I hate d-pads (to the point that I even prefer the joycon buttons just to not have random diagonal inputs), so it would be really cool if after you finished the 8bitdo stick replacement you could give a parts list.
The cycle of retro-gaming elitism: 1. You're emulating on your pc with a keyboard 2. You get an OG controller so you can be more l337 3. You're too l337 for a normal controller, return to 1.
@@lucabrito6155 I'm slowly getting there as well. It's much easier to buy a decent keyboard and mouse that'll last you a while, than to buy controllers that are prone to breaking. I'm considering getting a new keyboard, just because the one I'm currently using has ghosting issues (Dell KB216). I'll probably get a Redragon Karura (low-profile, affordable, has anti-ghosting, membrane, backlit keys).
@@penatio Yeah, I'm much better at kb and mouse than controllers. KB allows me to make custom settings easier and it's very precise and accurate as well.
On the Hitbox the down button is the middle finger button. The red button at the bottom is the up, like space bar on a keyboard. It’s weird at first but you get use to it after a little bit. I’d love to see you review one though, I feel you’d weirdly like it
To answer the speedrunner question: It is a definite preference. Like for example you have a lot more options for controls, like having space be jump (or up in fighters like a lot of players who use KB do)! You have the flexibility of a controller with the precision and tactile feel of an arcade stick. I will forever die on this hill that keyboard is best for ANY 2D game (tho 3d third person games usually are hell on mouse+kb unless the devs optimized for it)
You can’t fit your ring and index fingers on left and right buttons and middle finger on the up and down. Instead you have to have one finger or thumb hovering over all four buttons.
@@justindbond. Yeah, that's true, but, as someone who has played the entirety of Celeste and even gotten 8 golden berries, I can tell you that's not an issue at all, and on top of that you still have your index and middle finger for the L and ZL buttons
You still have to use a single thumb on all these "buttons d-pad" of the joy-con, instead of having various fingers to easy access them like the keyboard. Pay attention on the video next time.
@@Mari_Izu a joy-con d-pad having separate buttons gives it the additional accuracy of keys with only one finger as opposed to having to use multiple making it more efficient too. Use your head before opening your mouth.
How close the movement button and action button on Hitbox is what makes it really good for fighting game. You could simultaneously press right direction + action with one hand making it more precise
That pro controller harness is kinda pointless and hilarious now that there are proper (thicc) joycon alternatives, namely, the Binbok ones. The one you're sponsored by is overpriced too xD
Idk man, I just bought a clip for my sn30 pro and phone, pretty worth for 10 bucks since it isnt adjustable but feels nice. I wouldnt mind spending some 35ish bucks to get one that can sit over one of the best controllers I've ever used. Joycons just aren't the same even if thicker
@@AkibaMomoro I own one of these clips btw, so I'm not just guessing. Phones aren't nearly as heavy and thick as a whole Switch console. It's technically safe as it won't topple over but they still feel cumbersome by just a bit. The binbok Joycons are the slightest bit inferior to the Pro Controller but they are very damn well close to that same controller in terms of feel and durability. The fact they are also chunky means that the Switch itself "feels lighter" as it has something safer to hold on to. Also in regards to your 8bitdo, was it the plus version (with handles?) That one is nicer to hold your phone but its smaller sibling has a hard time holding a phone with a case on, without exerting more force to hold it. If you have to go with a controller mount, the plus model is not a bad choice (much like the xbox or dualshock controllers with their grips. In fact I would say that those have a better weight to counterbalance a cased phone. The sn30pro + is a bit on the light side, which makes it really comfy on its own though) I have long since switched to the Razer Kishi (pun not intended?) because of the faster input and stable design. It's only major downside is having to remove the case and also your phone needs to be compatible with USB-C cables (the round ones.)
@@CJSai64 I do not use the plus, didnt want the handles personally. I take my case off, as I have a pop socket on it, and it feels great. Given I am still using a Samsung Galaxy S8 so it's almost perfectly ideal weight and size for it.
@@AkibaMomoro I have an S9 so it's a similar size and dimensions. Seeing as I remove my armored case for the Kishi I won't say much about the hassle of doing so lol. I guess with your setup, your controller doesn't take up much space huh? I myself would be terrified of dropping my phone caseless but then again I'm a klutz. >_
And since this video is about using independent buttons instead of a D-Pad, the joy cons are actually the perfect choice for Switch users, and that makes that ad silly
So great man! Also, thank you so much for raiding me this past week on Twitch, so great to hang with you and your homies for a bit :) I'll pop into your chat this week!
that fixture gaming grip is sick! There's so many games in my library I generally avoid when in handheld, so I may have to pick this thing up at some point for in-bed gaming. Also, I just got a mechanical keyboard this week and am totally stoked to be able to appreciate this video more than I would've a week ago.
3:52 Someone else has probably already said this, but hitbox style controllers use modifiers. So for example, if you hold one modifier while pressing forward, you'll walk instead of run, you'll perform a tilt instead of a smash. Using a combination of modifiers, you can access angles that are hard, if not impossible to access of a normal controller. For example, specific firefox or Pikachu quick attack angles. The main reason a lot of people switch to box is because it's more ergonomic than a gamecube controller, and when you get comfortable with the modifiers, it is just so much more precise and accurate.
I'd say that the Hitbox is definitely worth a shot, though it isn't a trivial investment and it's possible for your hands to just not fit to its shape. If it fits, though, it's legitimately incredible. For me, it's the most comfortable and precise controller I've used in my life.
BRUH... Did you seriously montage a hot swap keyboard switch? That's the tech equivalent of making a montage of buttering toast. /groan Soldering in switches I get for a montage but a hot swap? Comon man..... You're killing me. You're just killing me dude.
6:48 The directional button layout on the Hitbox is supposed to emulate the A, S, D, and Spacebar (which is often bound to jump in most games) buttons on a keyboard. So you have your left, down, and right buttons all in one row for your ring, middle, and index fingers, and you have your thumb for up/jump. It's actually quite intuitive once you spend a few minutes with it. It also has the added benefit of being able to hit the up button with either your left or right thumb, which can lead to overall easier execution, like for 360 degree motions in fighting games.
I got a project diva style keypad for the PS4 from the same etsy seller, and it works fantastic. It's definitely clear everything was 3D printed, but it still holds together quite well. Even included the touchpad. I really like this guy's stuff.
This is a prime example of unexpected character development
Written and directed by Rian Johnson
Also a prime example of completing the circle. Going back to dos gaming.
@@Ddube84 Have you tried the mixbox joystick controller it’s basically a joystick controller without the joystick so it’s like having a real big click button directional pad but it has the actual you know joystick buttons as well I think you’ll probably be into something like that
@@Ddube84Rian kami! He saved Star Wars by dragging it into the Abyss! Bless
More like unexpected reversion
This really came out of the left field and I feel oddly shocked. The man who convinced me to buy not 1 but 2 8bitdo controllers praising the D-pad is... a keyboard guy? This... This just feels so wrong.
same but I kinda agree with him and I still love my pad controllers... All 6 of them... lol jk I just have the sn30 pro and pro plus and the pro controller jeez that is a lot
@@thelookingcat Do you feel good using the D-pad on the pro controller? I actually got the SN30 pro+ instead of the pro controller (because of the D-pad positioning advertised by someone) and have been using the WiiU pro controller with the 8bitdo adapter for 3D games. Also got the N30 Pro 2 for a small traveling option later on. Been actually using it surprisingly a lot because it is very quick to switch between devices (unlike the SN30 pro+).
@@Hooked_on_Gyro Such a shame to hear, that your having trouble with your SN30pro+ but happy to hear your liking the pro controller! Maybe someday I'll pick up one myself.
Yes just like when my uncle fondled my pistachios
I mean, it’s interesting, but he did a similar video a while ago. Wulff has pushed keyboards for 2D games a while now
Edited: this video isn’t new. This is probably the video I am talking about. I don’t know why a year old video I already watched was recommended to me. I hate TH-cam.
I play with donkey kong bongos to avoid this problem
Divekick would like to know your location
Haha. Nice.
"I'm done using D-Pads"
sure grandpa let's get you back to bed
Lol
This is the best comment on this video. Bravo.
' Back in my day we had a joystick and we made it work 🕹
Oh no Bob is getting radicalized
It was inevitable, he's just a few years late. Should've realised after the fight stick video
Keyboard feels so uncomfortable.
Someone needs to call contra-points for proper de-radicalization
::evil laughs:: Bob will be a Keeb in no time!
@@cesarsavan2494 idk I like keyboard
EVERYONE: "Super Mario"
BOB: "Super Mary-O"
What's the difference 🤔
prison time for pronoucing it soo per mar ee oh
@@snerttt the proper pronunciation is mah-ree-oh, mary-o is an american thing like aluminum instead of aluminium in the rest of the world
@@_herb not an american thing
@@_herb it’s actually a British thing so I have no idea why bob says it this way
Bob's Thumb will forever haunt me.
Same though
That thing could crush my dreams in an instant
Lmfaao as soon as I saw it I looked at the comments n this the first thing I see 😂☠️
TH-cam went from Annoying Orange to Terrifying Thumb.
That nail, I can’t
"You mean you have to use your hands? That's like a baby's toy!" - Back to the Future Part II, 1989
that technically took place in 2015.
No. No. No. No. No. NO. NO. NO. NO! NO! NO! NO!
NO! GOD! PLEASE! NO!!!!!
Yes so that’s a boom shakalaka in yo face!!!!!!!!
I
Ok
Damn I didn't know quarantine was this rough on ya, Bob.
You're so brave to come out like this.
As someone who owns a HitBox controller, I can't believe I didn't think of using it for 2D platformers! Definitely trying that out for sure. Love the video and the effort put into this!
(I've also outfitted my hitbox controller with keyboard switches via Gamer Finger buttons so this video definitely hit more home to me than I thought it would lol)
Next Video: I’m done breathing air
For the hitbox think of the red movement buttons as ASD + Space for jump, and the left hand buttons like your mouse 1+2+mounds side buttons
I’ve heard many pronunciations of hadouken, but today I learned of “hi do ken”
hydookin
It's Ryu greeting Ken.
_"Hiya do Ken?!"_
Sounds like an instruction
yeah ill stand by my pronunciation of mario but im aware of how very wrong this one is lol
In smash I always hear hi do ken... when someone else uses Ken.
Watching something that has been self-evident to me ever since I booted up an NES emulator with Mario in the mid-90s be discovered by people two and a half decades later is oddly satisfying. I kind of thought it was common knowledge that a keyboard would be more precise because there's almost no chance of accidentally hitting a wrong direction like on a D-Pad, but I guess it's just a thing I found out by happenstance that I assumed everyone knew. Fun video!
Let's see if you evolve to discovering that the numpad is by far the best thing to use on a keyboard for movement due to the key layout, 8462 is more spaced out, which for larger hands is much more comfortable than cramped WASD or arrow keys, plus the rectangular design means a lot more readily accessible keys in instances where you are using more buttons.
Of course, using the numpad requires moving your keyboard over a bit (I know, a huge inconvenience) to retain the same hand position, but I think that's easy enough. Breakout, standalone keypads also work well but are too much trouble for me.
"I'm done using D-Pads." *unsubcribes*
Actually, this is a great video, and I am intrigued if I can find an affordable keyboard/controller solution! I also thought you might be interested in checking out the RetroUSB Wireless Gamepad sometime. It's limited use because it's intended for NES games, and has only a D-pad, Select, Start, B, and A buttons; however, it uses *microswitches*-even for the D-pad! It seems like a good option for someone who likes both D-pads and keyboards, like yourself. There are a couple of reviews on TH-cam (including one of mine), if you're curious.
Yeah your right I’ve been wanting to use a keyboard mostly for typing messages faster but now that I have seen this I want a keyboard that is compatible with the Nintendo switch
@@ecmyersvids the keyboard is the worse part of PC gaming. cramping up your fingers to use WASD while your pinky reaches for the buttons you need to sprint and crouch, why your thumb, your most accurate, dexterous, and quickest finger, gets relegated to a single action, usually jump, tends to result in major hand cramps, as well as carpal tunnel and other wrist/hand degredation. Keyboards for gaming just aren't ergonomic in the least. You'd make a better case for using the button half of a left handed arcade board or a gaming keypad set up with better spacing
@@ulfrinn8783 When I'm playing a frantic game like Left 4 Dead 2, I always hit the wrong keys.
The Switch Pro controller's D-Pad sucks tho.
Heard Bobs thumb is getting his own spin off show. Good for him honestly
Y personally like to use piano keyboards but that's just me.
Crazy, I like to use my harmonica but that's just me
Im more of a bidet guy personally, you just turn the knob according to the button and it becomes as intuitive as can be. Not to mention it comes with a bonus of painting a new picasso blasted on your butt each playthrough, the quality of which easily lets you form an opinion about the game
Y
That's actually smart
i hooked up a midi keyboard and put it through a keybind program to try playing some games with it. didn’t go well, but shooters and sidescrollers were surprisingly playable.
Fun fact! In case you were still wondering, in melee there's the 8 directions/angles for Firefox in addition to 4 angles in between each of them for a total of 48 different angles with that hitbox style controller, the Frame 1.
‘Friendship ended with D-Pads 😡’
‘Now keyboards are my best friend 🥰’
Fuck that’s such a good reference, unlocking memories I forgot I had lmao
And that's why I like the joy cons! The "d-pad" is 4 separate buttons and at least for me, I feel better control over what I'm doing. But now I'm curious to try this
I definitely prefer it for something like tetris, it's harder to missdrop haha
Bob has brainwashed us for years and is now telling us he was wrong the whole time ahahahaha
As someone who made the switch from console to PC about a year ago, I can't overstate how insanely useful and intuitive a keyboard is for playing games. Especially once you play enough to understand the somewhat universal "language" of keyboard gaming (WASD for movement, shift to run, R to reload, etc.) that applies across several games. You can rebind anything to your preference. Just great.
Be careful how deep you get into custom keyboards, though... It is a vast, addictive, expensive rabbit hole.
nah controllers is much much better than kb for playing games that is not FPS lol
@@dxtremecaliber I disagree, at this point the only games I use controller for are side scrollers. Joysticks suck and using menus with that or a d pad is terrible once you've used a mouse for those things.
@@codexnecrogeddon best use case for keyboards is fighting games for me since they act just like fightsticks.
@@codexnecrogeddon depends on the game, my favourite genre is racing and a joystick is much better for steering than a keyboard, especially if you don’t a wheel, it’s the same with aviation games
2:18 that thumb is gonna haunt me for the rest of my life
_"Hey thanks man."_
-Bob's thumb 2021
He's always watching you.
Just a heads up; you can also try to just plug your keyboard directly into the switch and see if your games picks it up. For example One Step From Eden just works with a plugged in keyboard (granted, you cant change the layout and the ingame prompts still assume a controller.. so you have to try a bit until you find all the keys the game uses (it also helps if you know the pc version, since the switch version uses the same keyboard layout)). So yeah... this might save you a bit of money, if your games directly accept a keyboard.
Me personal uses a cronus zen
@@The_Comment_Section_and_chat based
Me, seeing the title of this video in my push notifications: "What a liar"
First “Mareeo”, now “Haidooken” and this. Wood has really lost it.
True, lol
Now he's trying to tell us his name is actually Bob Wulff. We need to get him off whatever he's using
No joke, I completed Mega Man X and Chrono Trigger the first time on a laptop and I didn't own a PC controller. I couldn't play for too long without getting aches in the back of my hands from constantly picking my fingers up. D-pads for me!
you just reminded me that I first played megamanx on my old phone with an SNES emulator and beat it. Holy shit.
Correction on Firefox Angles with hitbox style controllers, Frame1 controllers and SmashBox controllers (the leading Smash Bros hitbox controller models) have control stick modifier buttons, allowing for somewhere around 40-50 angles.
Other than that, very informative and interesting video!
Really excited to see what you do with the 8bitdo arcade stick. I have one myself and have been slowly customizing it, but switching out the lever to keys sounds really interesting!
The box has specific buttons that do very specific angles for Firefox and wavedash and also buttons that reduce the range to 50 percent to walk
0:53
".... i actually like it better than ..."
.... dies on the first stage of Super Mario World ....
Lol you cant even get the game hes playing right hahahaha
Yeah it’s super mario bros the all stars version. Get it right! Lol 😆
All of you need to stop
Ill turn this car around
That’s Super Mario Bros 1X, but technically this is still true cuz this game is a rom hack of Super Mario World
@@garburias it’s Super Mario All Stars Super Mario Bros
The man has basically lost his mind, it's official.
One of your best videos Bob. Very informative and thought provoking. Never really been interested in keyboard gaming but has given me a lot of think about. Looking forward to seeing 3D World tonight on Twitch!
That ad was the greatest thing I've ever seen.
Bob, I commend your search for the 'Holy Grail' of D-pads. It was not the easiet of problems to solve and you have demonstrated great preserverance and focus on one of the most abominable pursuits since the first console mankind has produced.
You can hit a large number of firefox angles on controllers like the frame 1, B0XX, and Smash Box by holding modifiers along with your general angle to hit more specific spots. You can add c stick on top of that to get even more.
Is it more intuitive than it sounds? Having to use multiple buttons at the same time for essentially one input doesn’t seem ideal. I’m a mouse and keyboard gamer at heart. I hate PlayStation controllers, but Xbox controllers feel pretty good to me, so I’ve never tried any of these alternate hybrid controllers.
Finally an ad tha is actually relevant to me.
High Du Ken
I actually instantly flinched in pain
The ad spots just keep getting better and better
When I was young and broke I finished the GBA Castlevanias all on my old keyboard during thesis, since I had no money to buy anything else. And it was great, not really just because I had to use it out of necessity, but the accuracy is really there. I think it just needs getting used to, since after a while using the right hand for the directions can mess with your muscle memory.
In 2 months time: "I have carpal tunnel syndrome".
When you said Firefox, I thought of the browser LOL
"Man discovers mixbox, acts like he's discovered fire, literally everyone who has been using keyboards for fighting games and racing games is unamused."
I started listening to kenny loggins interviews and man..... Bob and kenny loggins talk exactly the same
I still have muscular memory from the almost ten years playing emulators on my desktop computer. The difference between our setups is that I use to use the keyboard arrows for directions and ASZX for action buttons. I'm not left-handed, but strangely that worked better for me.
the title of this episode should be at the top of the "top 10 anime betrayals" list
How is bob anime?
@@Matanumi My guy, do you live under a rock?
this controller looks amazing, the second you showed it i was blown away! this looks like the perfect controller for me. although i was definitely not expecting it to be $350USD
i got into mechanical keyboards recently, so now i just wanna get a diy kit for the fightboard mx so i can build it myself. could be fun to play games with it, too
I was going to build a mixbox, but ended up going with an extended hitbox that has an extra button for up, I think best of both worlds, and the buttons I used crown that use the Cherry MX keyboard switches. Can't wait to finish the build, need a drill press to do some precision drilling, so a few more weeks.
I got a hitbox, that bigger bottom button essentially acts like a space bar/jump button. At first I thought it didn’t make sense either but it really does work wonders
I do think using a hitbox style controller for a while helped me understand how I was screwing up inputs and allowed me to be deliberate with my timings, so even when I played on pad again, I was better than before still.
Bob, a former D-pad user: "I'm switching to a keyboard."
Me, an intellectual and a member of PCMR: "We got him, boys!"
0:51 says he likes keyboard better, dies at an insanely easy part...
I just bought a Mayflash elite 500... this hobby will never end and I'm so happy
Alternative title: jesus loses all his subscribers
I've always had a hard time finding good controllers that don't connect via bluetooth, or that have a bad d-pad or it's in a bad position. The only 2D game I've played willingly on keyboard was Cave Story, and it worked fine. I wouldn't do it again.
But after seeing this, maybe I would...
Bob's editting has gotten so good over the years
You can thank Guywiththehair and Ianwhynot for the help 🤗
I gotta ask.. was the typo intentional?
honestly, Hitboxes make more sense if you consider the "Up" button at the bottom to be "Jump", like a spacebar in some keyboard controls.
It doesn't work great if you're playing Zangief though.
The box style controllers that Leffen's is talking about and using have modifiers to get some additional firefox angles as well as tilt functions, so they somewhat make up for the "digital" nature of the controller for the more "analog" inputs. The main downside, besides the learning curve, to the current line of box controllers for smash is either they're pretty expensive (except for the Frame1 Light, that one's pretty reasonable), unavailable a lot of the time because the companies making them are small, or both.
He's practicing for an offline scene that will never return.
What are the FREAKIN CHANCES that yesterday I started researching keyboards and switches for the first time ever??? Whoa! I actually knew what you were talking about!
Well, I guess BaHb has to change his logo now. 🤷♂️
I'm just glad somebody else is becoming a Keyboard Guy like me. Also, that Fightboard MX really needs to return. I got one of the last ones with Cherry MX Speed Silver switches. If I even THINK about the switch, it actuates
Well r/MK is going to take someone else's life savings..
Did you not see the wrist pog :^)
I went out and got myself a Fixture S1 because of this video, thanks it's what I've been looking for to play games around my house.
I also recently realized I hate d-pads (to the point that I even prefer the joycon buttons just to not have random diagonal inputs), so it would be really cool if after you finished the 8bitdo stick replacement you could give a parts list.
bro this guy is evolving backards
The cycle of retro-gaming elitism:
1. You're emulating on your pc with a keyboard
2. You get an OG controller so you can be more l337
3. You're too l337 for a normal controller, return to 1.
the cycle of retro gaming
1. emulator with kb
2. too lazy to get controller, just go back to 1
That’s exactly what happened to me. Lol
@@lucabrito6155 I'm slowly getting there as well. It's much easier to buy a decent keyboard and mouse that'll last you a while, than to buy controllers that are prone to breaking. I'm considering getting a new keyboard, just because the one I'm currently using has ghosting issues (Dell KB216). I'll probably get a Redragon Karura (low-profile, affordable, has anti-ghosting, membrane, backlit keys).
@@penatio Yeah, I'm much better at kb and mouse than controllers. KB allows me to make custom settings easier and it's very precise and accurate as well.
@@lucabrito6155 Yeah, playing Doom Eternal on PS4 was a pain for me :L
WULFF DEN: "Keyboards are instant"
Keyboard enthusiasts: *Rambles on about keycap actuation force and mechanical keyboards*
I'm done believing that Bob doesn't like Dpads.
dang that ad is such a throwback, but still so well done, great job man, love the vibe : )
"Keycron K3, Basicly just a much better keyboard than Apple makes"
*Angry keyboard noises
On the Hitbox the down button is the middle finger button. The red button at the bottom is the up, like space bar on a keyboard. It’s weird at first but you get use to it after a little bit. I’d love to see you review one though, I feel you’d weirdly like it
I cant see this being ergonomic at all, more responsive sure, but what about your wrists?
Alright, I've been inspired... I'm buying a Keymander and two new buckling spring keyboards (actual Model Ms from Unicomp)
it's funny because a D-Pad was literally in his logo
To answer the speedrunner question: It is a definite preference. Like for example you have a lot more options for controls, like having space be jump (or up in fighters like a lot of players who use KB do)! You have the flexibility of a controller with the precision and tactile feel of an arcade stick. I will forever die on this hill that keyboard is best for ANY 2D game (tho 3d third person games usually are hell on mouse+kb unless the devs optimized for it)
Bob really just said "hi-doo-ken"
Bob: *complains about Switch's replacement for D-Pad*
Also Bob: *now uses replacement for D-Pad*
Does he not realize this is the same concept as the Joy-con D-pad? The controller he bashes on in the commercial at the beginning of the video.
You can’t fit your ring and index fingers on left and right buttons and middle finger on the up and down. Instead you have to have one finger or thumb hovering over all four buttons.
Also the Playstation controllers
@@justindbond. Yeah, that's true, but, as someone who has played the entirety of Celeste and even gotten 8 golden berries, I can tell you that's not an issue at all, and on top of that you still have your index and middle finger for the L and ZL buttons
You still have to use a single thumb on all these "buttons d-pad" of the joy-con, instead of having various fingers to easy access them like the keyboard.
Pay attention on the video next time.
@@Mari_Izu a joy-con d-pad having separate buttons gives it the additional accuracy of keys with only one finger as opposed to having to use multiple making it more efficient too.
Use your head before opening your mouth.
How close the movement button and action button on Hitbox is what makes it really good for fighting game. You could simultaneously press right direction + action with one hand making it more precise
That pro controller harness is kinda pointless and hilarious now that there are proper (thicc) joycon alternatives, namely, the Binbok ones. The one you're sponsored by is overpriced too xD
Idk man, I just bought a clip for my sn30 pro and phone, pretty worth for 10 bucks since it isnt adjustable but feels nice. I wouldnt mind spending some 35ish bucks to get one that can sit over one of the best controllers I've ever used. Joycons just aren't the same even if thicker
@@AkibaMomoro I own one of these clips btw, so I'm not just guessing.
Phones aren't nearly as heavy and thick as a whole Switch console. It's technically safe as it won't topple over but they still feel cumbersome by just a bit.
The binbok Joycons are the slightest bit inferior to the Pro Controller but they are very damn well close to that same controller in terms of feel and durability. The fact they are also chunky means that the Switch itself "feels lighter" as it has something safer to hold on to.
Also in regards to your 8bitdo, was it the plus version (with handles?) That one is nicer to hold your phone but its smaller sibling has a hard time holding a phone with a case on, without exerting more force to hold it. If you have to go with a controller mount, the plus model is not a bad choice (much like the xbox or dualshock controllers with their grips. In fact I would say that those have a better weight to counterbalance a cased phone. The sn30pro + is a bit on the light side, which makes it really comfy on its own though)
I have long since switched to the Razer Kishi (pun not intended?) because of the faster input and stable design. It's only major downside is having to remove the case and also your phone needs to be compatible with USB-C cables (the round ones.)
@@CJSai64 I do not use the plus, didnt want the handles personally. I take my case off, as I have a pop socket on it, and it feels great. Given I am still using a Samsung Galaxy S8 so it's almost perfectly ideal weight and size for it.
@@AkibaMomoro I have an S9 so it's a similar size and dimensions. Seeing as I remove my armored case for the Kishi I won't say much about the hassle of doing so lol. I guess with your setup, your controller doesn't take up much space huh?
I myself would be terrified of dropping my phone caseless but then again I'm a klutz. >_
And since this video is about using independent buttons instead of a D-Pad, the joy cons are actually the perfect choice for Switch users, and that makes that ad silly
So great man! Also, thank you so much for raiding me this past week on Twitch, so great to hang with you and your homies for a bit :) I'll pop into your chat this week!
YOOOOO! Thanks man 😎
A turtle doesn't approve of D-Pads
Hi
2:20 “here’s a bunch of really tiny text...” Yup. I am that dork. Love your videos!
Your add gave me Shamwow flashbacks
that fixture gaming grip is sick! There's so many games in my library I generally avoid when in handheld, so I may have to pick this thing up at some point for in-bed gaming. Also, I just got a mechanical keyboard this week and am totally stoked to be able to appreciate this video more than I would've a week ago.
THICC CLICKS?!?
Damn.
I thought you’d go for linears.
He'll come around. Lots of people start on clicky blues and later become enlightened
3:52 Someone else has probably already said this, but hitbox style controllers use modifiers. So for example, if you hold one modifier while pressing forward, you'll walk instead of run, you'll perform a tilt instead of a smash. Using a combination of modifiers, you can access angles that are hard, if not impossible to access of a normal controller. For example, specific firefox or Pikachu quick attack angles. The main reason a lot of people switch to box is because it's more ergonomic than a gamecube controller, and when you get comfortable with the modifiers, it is just so much more precise and accurate.
The Dpad has been around almost 40 years now. As much as I love it, I'm very interested in new control methods
@Tony Montella and play with keyboard exist in the past 50 year... So is not a new thing too.
I'd say that the Hitbox is definitely worth a shot, though it isn't a trivial investment and it's possible for your hands to just not fit to its shape. If it fits, though, it's legitimately incredible. For me, it's the most comfortable and precise controller I've used in my life.
top 10 biggest anime betrayals
Wulff den: advertises controller attachment
Also him: I’m never using a controller again
I mean, technically a Joycon doesn't have a dpad...
@@Hooked_on_Gyro. I am a lot more precise with the joy cons, specially on a game like Celeste where you have to make many fast precise movements
BRUH... Did you seriously montage a hot swap keyboard switch? That's the tech equivalent of making a montage of buttering toast. /groan
Soldering in switches I get for a montage but a hot swap? Comon man..... You're killing me. You're just killing me dude.
"console gamer discovers pc for the first time"
6:48 The directional button layout on the Hitbox is supposed to emulate the A, S, D, and Spacebar (which is often bound to jump in most games) buttons on a keyboard. So you have your left, down, and right buttons all in one row for your ring, middle, and index fingers, and you have your thumb for up/jump. It's actually quite intuitive once you spend a few minutes with it. It also has the added benefit of being able to hit the up button with either your left or right thumb, which can lead to overall easier execution, like for 360 degree motions in fighting games.
Wtf we have lost him to the dark side
hitboxes are absolutely worth trying, i dont have one but i use the layout on my keyboard for fighting games, it's improved my execution significantly
I got a project diva style keypad for the PS4 from the same etsy seller, and it works fantastic. It's definitely clear everything was 3D printed, but it still holds together quite well. Even included the touchpad. I really like this guy's stuff.