Former DS/3DS game dev here: Those bars are system resource indicator. The kit you got is using one of the first firmware version for this unit (there have been multiple versions of the devkit) And that cartridge slot is never really used. You are usually streaming the game in debug from your PC to the devkit via USB. The capture could be output in much higher resolution then the native 800x240.
These were fun to play with. Ours stopped working randomly at one point and took us a little bit to figure out we had to change those internal batteries. What project did you work on?
For everyone’s knowledge, an FPGA isn’t just a field programmable chip, FPGAs are chips whos HARDWARE can be programmed. In other words, you can design an entire chip using code (the language is VHDL or Verilog) and the chip will “rearrange” the physical interconnects inside itself turning it into a different hardware configuration. So you can change the chip design on the fly. You can also program that chip with software on top of the hardware layer like a normal integrated circuit
@@barney9008 There are FPGAs available for a few dollars, although they don't contain so many interconnects and other components, so they can't implement large circuits.
I used that for cod games on my Wii lol, I wanted a regular one for mario kart etc or whatever but my dad insisted on getting the pro version, and if it weren't for that I would've not been able to play cod games xD
it would not have been "perfect" it would have been fucking obnoxious. the DS virtual console games on WII U proves it to you perfectly how BAD that implementation would have been
The additional RAM in dev kits is not to run “bloated” versions of the games. It’s to run development software and features concurrent to the game, like RAM dump, video capture, debugging, etc on the actual system. They aren’t using the additional RAM for native game performance.
I think what he also meant by bloated is that the code isn't optimized yet. When a game's still in alpha or beta, it's a lot more quick and dirty, just make it work. Once features have been iterated enough and are working well is when code hardening can patch remaining bugs and boost performance. Edit: I totally agree with OP's statement about dev also needing more resources for logging & monitoring
It also needs enough RAM to effectively store the entire games code and assets as you send the whole build over from the debug PC. Actually, I wonder if that might also be why it has AA batteries? So it can retain the virtual cartridge image between power cycles?
It's been about a month since you made this video, I just watched it and thought it was really cool. I know it's been a month, I'm not really sure how much you are still into learning more about 3ds development but I do have the actual software dev kit if you are interested in making a video about it, I wouldn't mind sharing that to you via some sort of platform.
As an FPGA Engineer myself, I always get excited when you talk about that. Fun Fact A cyclone 3 is made by Altera, not too long ago Altera was bought by intel! The competitor to Altera was Xilinx, as Xilinx was bought by AMD back in February!
Been trying to get into FPGAs using an Altera board, but since its acquisition I feel like all online resources for students made by altera have slowly disappeared and its a hot mess of broken links with Intel websites.
@@Nayayom Yeah, it is tough, but if you are interested and want something more up to date, I would actually suggest a Xilinx Zynq Board, they are a lot cheaper and more modern!
@@Kelble Thanks for the info! Will be scouting ebay then. As a student myself I was actually recommended by teachers to use a DE10-Lite board, since it cost just 30 USD + shipping it was a good deal.
I think that these are the kind of videos that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft hate to watch on TH-cam but ironically these kind of videos make us want to play again these games.
I have a feeling most of the dev kits in the future will just be a specced out PC (on dev side) with custom firmware (supplied by one of the 3) that the big 3 can just revoke just like the dev xbox video, no more custom hardware like these.
Speaking as someone who’s part of Nintendo Partner Dev program (no I don’t actually develop games lol), the 3DS dev kits were actually widely available to anyone who wanted them. You were able to choose from dev kits for the OG 3DS or the N3DS. Not sure how much a kit used to cost since I joined the program too late, but I remember that the debug systems were around $400. Also Wii U dev kits in full were $2.5k when I checked last year, so if anybody wants one, they got em.
@@LyokoisGreat2 Yep! At least you used to be able to, not sure if it’s changed or not. The reason why was because of how many more indies wanted on Nintendo consoles during the 3DS/Wii U era, so they opened up gates for everybody to develop. Once Unity development hit N3DS, that’s when the floodgates opened. You were able to but dev kits, debug consoles, they had a dedicated development software where you could develop both 3DS and Wii U games in it (tho you can’t access the servers anymore as far as I’m aware), and it was all accessible to anybody who signed up for the program. It’s not as easy now, for Switch development you need to already have two or three games under your belt on other services aka App Store, Google Play, or Steam so they can cut down on spam (didn’t help obviously).
Vertical mode is also useful because some games actually have you holding the 3DS vertically like a book. Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside story comes time mind for a few fights.
Funfact: That "development" controller was actually released to the public as the "wii classic pro controller" It even had some special editions like a golden one from goldeneye 007 and a red one from Xenoblade Chronicles.
You need to update to Luma 11.0 since in September there actually was a new firmware update for the 3ds (yeah crazy huh?) I mean there could be a ton of other problems with whatever firmware that 3ds is running, but thats normally what you would need to do with a Luma 3ds to update firmware.
@@Sanrasxz The 3DS part of it probably runs retail firmware. The development apps on the 3DS part most likely use connections that are simply severed in a retail product but are connected to the debug board within the dev kit. Alternatively they could use special codes over an otherwise used connection, either way the actual 3DS part is probably the same as a retail system.
Linus, that's the Wii Classic Controller Pro which did in fact make it to market :P also i'm shocked that they didn't irreversibly brick this system in the filming of this video
i like how linus finds a strandard wii classic pro controller and hes like "omg this is way better than the original" when the only difference is the coloring, he was confusing the classic with the classic pro
@@HungryFox02 the L and R buttons on the Classic controller (the one without handles) are analog. You should be able to test the controller using Brawl and lightly press the button to make a thin shield.
The "developer board" is probably an ICE (in circuit emulator), most console development kits have this circuit that sits between the CPU and the rest of the system to allow you to do things such as breaking the execution of the program and reading the CPU registers and the memory of the system etc etc etc.. It's how you can do breakpoints on an external system among other tricks.
I kinda hope game manufacturers enjoy seeing their old devkits get shown in videos like this, imagine developing something like this, and then the public never gets to know about the feat of engineering that it was
While Nintendo is way bigger than LMG, LMG probably has better than average lawyers on retainer so while they certainly exhibit a bit of hubris with these videos, it's no doubt a move they make after careful calculations.
A lawsuit Nintendo won't win since they're not actually pirating and using laws that were set a long time ago about VCR and cassette tape recording where we the consumer was given the "Right to copy as a backup" The only grey area are the dedicated emulation devices that don't reverse engineer the console software, but rather run the Nintendo firmware in a virtualized environment.
It's very unlikely the FPGAs are to swap out functionality in the main CPU or GPU. They generally aren't very good at stuff like that - they are usually not big or fast enough to do that (there are high end ones that probably could, but you don't want to know the price). They are probably used for things like glue logic or custom functions, perhaps related to debug or video capture, where it didn't make sense to put a whole board full of logic chips. They could also have been used for things like peripheral controllers and the like, perhaps before they had whatever custom silicon would be in the final device.
I would agree. Although the hardware from the 3DS is low end even for the era I doubt that they would just put the CPU in a FPGA. Specially since the 3DS CPU is not a special hardware. Its your run of the mill ARM CPU. A dual core ARM11 with a PICA200 as GPU. The main difference is that the 3DS also has a ARM9 that controls other stuff (and you can play with both ARM9 and ARM11 at the same time, both can run custom code). Probably the FPGA is there to glue them together. I think the whole processing unit is spread between all boards, I couldn't see a board with more than one "main" chip and on a retail they are discrete chips.
@@manoftherainshorts9075 Mister has a Cortex A9 on it and a much newer Cyclone V. Also, until now the limit of Mister is something close to a PSX. A 3DS can emulate a PSX (although slowly) on itself. Its very hard and costly to put a "modern" architecture CPU running at hundreds if not thousands of megahertz on a FPGA. And ARM CPUs are generic enough to be cheap to purchase instead of trying to build. Mister try to solve the issue of older more specialized hardware that aren't so generic.
@@manoftherainshorts9075 Quite true. But those are very old CPUs being emulated on modern FPGAs. To explain, the SNES processor might have been a 1um process (can't find exact numbers). The FPGA the Mister uses is 28nm (that's 0.028um). It's not that FPGAs can't emulate CPUs (they certainly can - lookup softcores), but, all other things being equal, an FPGA that can emulate a contemporary CPU will be very expensive, assuming it can do it at all.
The Nintendo 3DS is pretty special to me, since it was my first console. After homebrewing it I also put some of the Dev-Apps on it. Love seeing Linus messing around in these and showing the dev hardware in detail. Great video!
Fun fact: that development Wii Classic Controller with the handles actually made it to retail as the Wii Classic Controller Pro, most prominently marketed alongside the Wii release of the Goldeneye 007 remake.
That controller Linus was using actually did make it to market as the Classic Controller Pro. The dev one is a weird mix of parts from the white and black models though. Something about this video has awakened my nostalgia for when the 3DS was first announced and seemed like a crazy premium product. Thanks!
That capture USB: I recall that for the Wii dev kit, you had the ability to "fake" high rez when you took a screenshot, the machine would take a ton of screenshots then come up with a high rez composite.
if you mean the 3ds thats basically just a screen no those arent that fragile... plus it was super light cuse there were no other internals except a little display driver for the screen and the 3ds on its own is very sturdy design. ive dropped mine like a million times and it barely shows a scratch from it @@RyanMartinez
As someone who owns a Luma CFW 3DS and used to stream the 3DS over WiFi its awesome to see how Nintendo did it themselfes. Most of this stuff (systems/software) looks just like a hacked 3DS. I remember bricking my (if i remember correctly) SysNand before and was so glad that i had a backup. Any problem when using CFW is a nightmare lmao. Without a good guide i would have never been able to set up CFW/Luma its crazy how much work, testing and knowledge is needed for stuff like that.
Y'all should have seen the earlier Dev/Test kits... Imagine 2 screens on a giant (far from handheld) motherboard that you had to try to angle to make the 3D effect work in a pre-eye-tracking 3DS. Nausea-inducing, to say the least.
The first PCB has more RAM because its doing video scaling, composite and the DVI out. It needs a framebuffer. The second board with actual Nintendo silicon has another FPGA, probably to use its LVDS drivers to drive the longer cables to the controller.
19:32 someone tell Linus there is a tool called "Locale Emulator" and during XP days you could install Microsoft's own local emulation layer "App Locale" as well. NtLea was another option. All three could co-exist (each worked slightly different and thus the applications would run with one tool, but not with the other), but mainly "Locale Emulator" survived to this day.These tools work with like, I'd say, 97% of the software which require Asian locale settings. At the very least, I only have like a handful of games or software which do not run with the locale emulation. I have likely used it on a multiple of hundred games so far, for which you'd require a Japanese Windows installation otherwise.
Linus y'all should make a series where you guys get these console dev kits or dev consoles to show them off You guys did the XBox, PS3 and now the 3DS. More would be amazing
@Toma it isn't but they have a large community and people won't mind sending their consoles or dev kits to be features, also it's LMG, they a buncha madlads who'll put off anything that's tech nerdy or tech cool
he said at the start he is always wanting to review this things. it's just that they are so rare that it's hard to get ahold of them. even with his massive community it's rare to get even get a couple, even less that would be OK with him disassembling it
The 3DS is the main handheld I played on as a kid (the main home console being the og Wii, I believe we got it before the Wii U released), and it's cool seeing a devkit for it, even if I think I might of watched videos about it before. Also, apparently Linus never got the memo about the Classic Controller Pro existing for the Wii. Edit: It’s also a little interesting and weird to see a FPGA used, but I guess it makes sense for a devkit. I guess I just never really thought about it before. Edit 2: I suppose it is also possible that the Nintendo branded chip may be the SOC for the DS, as I believe the 3DS has a separate SOC inside for the DS, but I don't remember for sure. Obviously I don't know that that's the case, that's just my somewhat educated guess.
The Wii controller i believe is the Classic Pro Controller Nintendo had released with the Wii (after the normal Classic Controller (CC from hereon) that plugged into the Wiimote, they had originally released an ergonomic handle that clipped into the original CC; they later redesigned the CC to integrate the handles into the moulding of the shell itself)
If I was desiging that unit, top board is just for video out handling, middle board is actual 3DS with the actual silicon, bottom board are for debug info JTAG, TRACE, SWD, and running other monitoring stuff
Trust me, a lot of people have been dealing with the nightmare of capturing footage from the 3DS. Well, outside of emulators anyway. I remember Etika having issues with his modded 3DS.
The classic controller with handles was an actual product. I actually still have some for the Wii with the Nintendo branding still showing. Though mine were solid white like the Wii remote not two toned like yours.
Interesting to see that one of the boards uses a SuperH/SH-4 CPU. It's one of those weird RISC ISAs that keeps popping up in places, although it's mostly dead now. Apparently there's still a Renesas µC based on SH-2A with availability through 2029, so not completely dead. Most famously, especially considering this is a video about a game console (dev kit), a SH-4 CPU was used in the Dreamcast.
Intelligent Systems is a very long time non-subsidiary company that works exclusively with Nintendo. They actually do a lot of stuff overall, from prototyping to full on game development. They've made a ton of classics like the Paper Mario series, Fire Emblem series, and a lot of the classic small titles Nintendo put out in the 2000's like Tetris Attack, Pushmo, and Advance Wars. They're very similar to HAL Laboratories in this regard, though that company was notable for bringing Sakurai and Iwata directly to Nintendo
Yeah, IS are one of around 6-8 "second-party" developers. Other big names here are Monolith Soft (Xenoblade), SORA Ltd., and of course HAL Laboratory and Game Freak. Game Freak are especially interesting because they were at one point fully third-party and have titles in their catalog that were published for Sony systems!
@@NebulonRanger Nintendo owns Monolith Soft (97% ownership), they are not a 2nd party. They're on the same level as Retro Studios and Next Level Games, along side a couple lesser known studios that makes up Nintendo's puny resume of acquisitions
@@genderender Yeah, that was the one I was less sure of. I do know IS and Game Freak are functionally independent, as Game Freak in particular still inhabit the same office space in Tokyo they've been headquartered at since the 90s and are still making multiplatform games (as of 2019 at least).
Awesome video! I will say though the controller for the dev kit isn't based off the Wii classic Controller, it's the Classic Controller Pro. It was released alongside Goldeye on the wii, and featured better button placement for the shoulder and triggers, and actual handles.
I was kind of surprised Intelligent Systems' name wasn't on the 3DS devkit, but glad to see they're on the DS capture device! Fun fact, they started as a hardware partner for Nintendo, particularly manufacturing devkits and other related hardware/software tools, before they wound up developing games themselves.
I've always had a soft spot for the 3DS. Had a childhood OG 3DS. Got a New 3DS XL for homebrew around the beginning of 2021. I love to see that the community is keeping it alive, it really is a charming little system. With that being said, I've had nightmares with NNID and the System Settings music gives me heebie jeebies... I have yet to know what is happening in this video, but the first frame looks very interesting. 5:06 I'm assuming you tried pressing X?
Nitpick: The version of the Wii Classic Controller with the grips and upgraded shoulder buttons wasn't development-only, it was shipped for the Wii a few years after the original Classic Controller as the Classic Controller Pro
I think you could've updated the firmware. The problem was most likely that you weren't connected to the internet. At least, going by the previous shot at 5:25 showing that you didn't have a connection you weren't. Of course, if it's using the same wifi adapter as a regular 3DS, those things aren't the most stable, and I've had to try multiple times to do a firmware update.
I dont know if this is the case for this devkit but usually connecting a devkit to the internet on someplace that nintendo didnt whitelist/expect it to be connected in will get your door busted down by police
Absolutely loving these deep dives on these dev kits! I really hope that you continue to get some more from other consoles as well! Also: watch out for the Nintendo Hitmen... Your probably on a hit list somewhere now 🤣
The 3DS has 2 CPUs. The ARM11 SoC/GPU and main RAM is on the smaller board, the ARM9 SoC is on the larger board along with most of the other 3DS hardware.
fun fact for any other machine shop nerds like me; the Altera Cyclone processor is also used on Haas CNC machines (their "NGC" controller introduced in 2016).
Remember Nintendo Minute ? Those guys streamed 3DS gameplay into screens with a special cable. Maybe the streaming machines still and are sitting somewhere in a basement collecting dust
One way is by using a 3rd party porting service. These are studios with devkits who don't develop their own games but instead take contracts from other studios/publishers to port PC games to console. Services like these are actually required for certain game engines like Godot. This is because manufacturers treat console APIs as proprietary (not just the code itself but even the names of function calls) and don't typically allow any references to their APIs to be checked-in to open source game engines. Porting services can get around this by adding calls to the console APIs internally since they have the licenses and devkits to do so. These weird licensing restrictions on game middleware are also part of why some studios can't release multiplayer server code even if they wanted to as doing so might breach a licensing agreement.
The Wii did have a "pro" style controller that looked very similar to the dev console controller. It was normally gold painted and was only sold for a limited time. That said, yes, the most common controller was the one that looked like an SNES controller.
Why did no one try to stop him from even attempting a system update? It's a dev kit, and they already knew it was on custom firmware. But sure, haphazardly mess around with this 'precious relic' and then try something as drastic as a system update when you screw up the settings.. I bet the lender got triggered watching that nearly happen. I'm surprised it didn't end up totally bricked
I can only imagine if linus were to discover one of the original 3ds devkits: just one big unprotected circuit board sitting on a metal plate, with both screens and buttons/joysticks welded to it; no separate dummy 3ds.
You should look into emulation software instead. Those can often also increase the resolution of rendering to make it look better than on the console. Of course it might be a bit less fun without the 3D aspect, but 99% of viewers would just watch in 2D anyway.
I am sure some people already corrected you, but the controller you wired in isn't developer exclusive. It's the revised Wii Classic Controller Pro. The original Wii Classic Controller is the one without handles, but a revision called Classic Controller Pro has the handles.
These devkit videos are so cool. I would love to see a PS2 devkit sometime in the future. There were Debug versions of the PS2, which looked identical to retail except they could run games from any region and had some over-LAN debugging features, the Test PS2s which again are identical to retail except they lack the debugging stuff but will run games from any region, and then there's the big behemoth that is the PS2 TOOL, which is essentially a huge PS2-looking box that houses both PS2 hardware and a Linux PC for development and compiling, each with separate video outputs, at least from what I understand.
One thing Linus didn't consider is that daughter board could have the chip of the Nintendo DS on it. Nintendo's handhelds would essentially add on to the previous generation and use the prior system's cpu to help run games. It's why the 3DS can run GBA games without emulation. The GBA CPU helped run DS games and the 3DS retained backwards compatibility with the DS. I've even read that the CPU of the Game Boy Micro still has the GBC processor in it, but they couldn't put the switch in that toggled between the modes. Long story short, even the 3DS was still a Game Boy at heart.
-Linus doesn't realize or forgot about Classic Controller Pro I never even HAD an OG Wii Classic Controller, I just had the Gold controller from Goldeneye Wii, so I never had to even DEAL with the lesser controller.
Owning multiple dev kits (I have 2 Wii NDEV units, IS-NITRO-EMULATOR, a PS3 Test unit and a custom PS1 homebrew setup), I can definitely say that they are awesome. Both hardware and Software. Hardware side : for one, they are cool as hell. But there's more to it. Official dev kits have an amazing eletronics quality. They generally have top of the line capacitors, resistors and are generally well designed. Software side : You got full control. Of course, nowadays it's a bit tricky to install Nintendo NTR SDK and REVOLUTION SDK because of license expired, but I found a smarty way to have them running. The different tools you have (debugger, compiler etc..) really does the job extremely well. Of course, the price, even nowadays, are kinda big, though I bought mines for quite cheap. The bigger problem is availability. It's rare to have good things on ebay right now with dev kits, so the only way to not miss anything is to watch everyday. But other than that, for collection or actual dev, those things are amazing. And it's a pleasure to see those reviewed !
I have one that's known as the IS-CTR-Box. It's practically the same as the one in this video just without the ability to capture and output video to a monitor but overall it's cool piece of tech nonetheless. Currently I'm using it to teach myself how to program for the hardware and the debugging features really do come in handy.
Glad to see these dev kits getting some love, rather than sitting in my basement :)
its the man himself
How did you get this, buddy?.
Thank you for sharing them for all of us to see :)
i envy you
more toys from your dungeon plox
Former DS/3DS game dev here:
Those bars are system resource indicator.
The kit you got is using one of the first firmware version for this unit (there have been multiple versions of the devkit)
And that cartridge slot is never really used. You are usually streaming the game in debug from your PC to the devkit via USB.
The capture could be output in much higher resolution then the native 800x240.
Underrated comment, Linus Fly this guy out and let him show you how it works lol
Love this comment - great insights and i’d love to hear more about devving on the 3ds
These were fun to play with.
Ours stopped working randomly at one point and took us a little bit to figure out we had to change those internal batteries.
What project did you work on?
You are a legend, Sir!
@@BrushyHat You are also a Legend!
For everyone’s knowledge, an FPGA isn’t just a field programmable chip, FPGAs are chips whos HARDWARE can be programmed. In other words, you can design an entire chip using code (the language is VHDL or Verilog) and the chip will “rearrange” the physical interconnects inside itself turning it into a different hardware configuration. So you can change the chip design on the fly. You can also program that chip with software on top of the hardware layer like a normal integrated circuit
Thanks for the information
dang no wonder they are so expensive hella cool thogh
@@barney9008 There are FPGAs available for a few dollars, although they don't contain so many interconnects and other components, so they can't implement large circuits.
So basically the Smart Chips from X4 :D
Cool
At the same time it is just a field programmable chip. It is a chip, it is user programmable.
The Wii Classic Controller Pro came to market. Surprised to see it used in the dev kit as a controller. Pretty cool.
I was ABOUT to comment this! I have fond memories of using that controller for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U attached to a wiimote lol
I used that for cod games on my Wii lol, I wanted a regular one for mario kart etc or whatever but my dad insisted on getting the pro version, and if it weren't for that I would've not been able to play cod games xD
Yeah, Linus understandably doesn't know about the Classic Pro, but it was really the way to go to play CoD and Monster Hunter.
So this wasn't actually a Wii U Pro controller? I thought he was just mistaking it for the original Wii.
I love when Linus goes from content creation mode to full blown just genuine excitement
Man, I sure hope Linus' anti-ninja security system is up to snuff
Is this a cubic ninja reference?
It's just Taekwondo Dennis lurking
With the way Dennis sneaks around his house on the regular, pretty sure the Nintendo Ninjas will have no trouble.
@@malaki7123 maybe we’ll get to see the Epic Anime Fight between Dennis and Nintendo Ninjas?
@@malaki7123 They will have all the trouble, Dennis will stop them all.
The Wii U should have had a 3ds cartridge slot, the dual screen capability of that system would have been perfect for playing 3ds stuff on a TV.
I am still mad this was never implemented, I though that was the whole point of it!
it would not have been "perfect" it would have been fucking obnoxious. the DS virtual console games on WII U proves it to you perfectly how BAD that implementation would have been
If the WII U had a 3ds slot, then that slot should not only cover 3ds cartridges but also regular ds cartridges as well!
@@weberman173 I actually liked it. It ran pretty well imo.
Hopefully someone will be able to make a retro console or an accessory that can play DS/3DS cartridges someday
The additional RAM in dev kits is not to run “bloated” versions of the games. It’s to run development software and features concurrent to the game, like RAM dump, video capture, debugging, etc on the actual system. They aren’t using the additional RAM for native game performance.
Debug builds could also use a bit more RAM
This is actually a super funny one to have been spammed with DM claim your prize.
I think what he also meant by bloated is that the code isn't optimized yet. When a game's still in alpha or beta, it's a lot more quick and dirty, just make it work. Once features have been iterated enough and are working well is when code hardening can patch remaining bugs and boost performance.
Edit: I totally agree with OP's statement about dev also needing more resources for logging & monitoring
its a mix of both dev builds do use more ram and so do dev tools
It also needs enough RAM to effectively store the entire games code and assets as you send the whole build over from the debug PC.
Actually, I wonder if that might also be why it has AA batteries? So it can retain the virtual cartridge image between power cycles?
The moment I heard you mention Luma I burst out laughing over the fact that you homebrewed a 3DS dev kit
He didn't. Whoever loaned it did.
It's been about a month since you made this video, I just watched it and thought it was really cool. I know it's been a month, I'm not really sure how much you are still into learning more about 3ds development but I do have the actual software dev kit if you are interested in making a video about it, I wouldn't mind sharing that to you via some sort of platform.
As an FPGA Engineer myself, I always get excited when you talk about that. Fun Fact A cyclone 3 is made by Altera, not too long ago Altera was bought by intel! The competitor to Altera was Xilinx, as Xilinx was bought by AMD back in February!
Been trying to get into FPGAs using an Altera board, but since its acquisition I feel like all online resources for students made by altera have slowly disappeared and its a hot mess of broken links with Intel websites.
@@Nayayom Yeah, it is tough, but if you are interested and want something more up to date, I would actually suggest a Xilinx Zynq Board, they are a lot cheaper and more modern!
@@Kelble Thanks for the info! Will be scouting ebay then. As a student myself I was actually recommended by teachers to use a DE10-Lite board, since it cost just 30 USD + shipping it was a good deal.
I got a Xilinx FPGA board from my uni, its really cool
@@Nayayom we learned with xilinx Boards at Uni
I think that these are the kind of videos that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft hate to watch on TH-cam but ironically these kind of videos make us want to play again these games.
I have a feeling most of the dev kits in the future will just be a specced out PC (on dev side) with custom firmware (supplied by one of the 3) that the big 3 can just revoke just like the dev xbox video, no more custom hardware like these.
@@PrograError with Sony and Microsoft is at some point factible, with Nintendo not yet, but maybe in the future.
@@PrograError well yeah cuz all xboxes are essentially just highly customised pcs lol
i don't think they care, specially when they're old.
@@alyx6427 Yeah, like literally every other game console
The pro classic controller exists, though it does look slightly different than that dev controller Linus is holding.
Just other colours. It's all white instead of black on the back.
Was about to say. Back when Golden Eye came out on the Wii, they released pro controllers in a gold shell. I have 5 of them for dev purposes.
Was about to say, unfortunately, not the first nor likely the last time that Linus forgets stuff exists... :/
Exactly! He was saying he wanted a product so badly, but it already existed💀
Bet you can easily replicate the look of a dev controller by having both black and white pro controllers and swap their shells
Speaking as someone who’s part of Nintendo Partner Dev program (no I don’t actually develop games lol), the 3DS dev kits were actually widely available to anyone who wanted them. You were able to choose from dev kits for the OG 3DS or the N3DS. Not sure how much a kit used to cost since I joined the program too late, but I remember that the debug systems were around $400. Also Wii U dev kits in full were $2.5k when I checked last year, so if anybody wants one, they got em.
wait you can be part of the Nintendo Partner Dev program and not develop a game?
@@LyokoisGreat2 Yep! At least you used to be able to, not sure if it’s changed or not. The reason why was because of how many more indies wanted on Nintendo consoles during the 3DS/Wii U era, so they opened up gates for everybody to develop. Once Unity development hit N3DS, that’s when the floodgates opened. You were able to but dev kits, debug consoles, they had a dedicated development software where you could develop both 3DS and Wii U games in it (tho you can’t access the servers anymore as far as I’m aware), and it was all accessible to anybody who signed up for the program. It’s not as easy now, for Switch development you need to already have two or three games under your belt on other services aka App Store, Google Play, or Steam so they can cut down on spam (didn’t help obviously).
Makes me wonder just how many of these things are actually floating around in some indie dev studios or private collections.
8:28 That’s the Wii classic controller pro in a nutshell.
8:21 This controller is shaped like a Wii classic controller pro. It was a product you could buy, so it's not unique to the dev controllers.
Vertical mode is also useful because some games actually have you holding the 3DS vertically like a book. Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside story comes time mind for a few fights.
Brain age too
Dream Team use vertical play for the giant Luigi fights as well
There were some dating sims in Japan which need vertical
@@MrAgentEcho This, and Guitar Hero first came to mind
Rhythm Heaven on the regular ds
Funfact: That "development" controller was actually released to the public as the "wii classic pro controller" It even had some special editions like a golden one from goldeneye 007 and a red one from Xenoblade Chronicles.
I have that golden one.
It's actually Wii Classic Controller Pro
the Wii U actually has a mirrored AC adapter so they were not reusing the same AC/sensor bar parts
You need to update to Luma 11.0 since in September there actually was a new firmware update for the 3ds (yeah crazy huh?) I mean there could be a ton of other problems with whatever firmware that 3ds is running, but thats normally what you would need to do with a Luma 3ds to update firmware.
Doubt there's any firmware updates for a dev unit.
@@Sanrasxz The 3DS part of it probably runs retail firmware. The development apps on the 3DS part most likely use connections that are simply severed in a retail product but are connected to the debug board within the dev kit. Alternatively they could use special codes over an otherwise used connection, either way the actual 3DS part is probably the same as a retail system.
Linus, that's the Wii Classic Controller Pro which did in fact make it to market :P
also i'm shocked that they didn't irreversibly brick this system in the filming of this video
Well, we didn't see it work after they put it back together again. ;)
i like how linus finds a strandard wii classic pro controller and hes like "omg this is way better than the original" when the only difference is the coloring, he was confusing the classic with the classic pro
technically the original classic controller had analog shoulder buttons.
@@zero9112 which one? I have both the classic and the classic pro and they are not analog
@@HungryFox02 the L and R buttons on the Classic controller (the one without handles) are analog. You should be able to test the controller using Brawl and lightly press the button to make a thin shield.
The "developer board" is probably an ICE (in circuit emulator), most console development kits have this circuit that sits between the CPU and the rest of the system to allow you to do things such as breaking the execution of the program and reading the CPU registers and the memory of the system etc etc etc..
It's how you can do breakpoints on an external system among other tricks.
I kinda hope game manufacturers enjoy seeing their old devkits get shown in videos like this, imagine developing something like this, and then the public never gets to know about the feat of engineering that it was
Damn this man is risking a lawsuit from nintendo for everyones entertainment, what a legend
While Nintendo is way bigger than LMG, LMG probably has better than average lawyers on retainer so while they certainly exhibit a bit of hubris with these videos, it's no doubt a move they make after careful calculations.
A lawsuit Nintendo won't win since they're not actually pirating and using laws that were set a long time ago about VCR and cassette tape recording where we the consumer was given the "Right to copy as a backup"
The only grey area are the dedicated emulation devices that don't reverse engineer the console software, but rather run the Nintendo firmware in a virtualized environment.
@@bustex1 better than *average*. LRN2READ
Here before it blows up
@@bustex1 He said better than average, not better than Nintendo. Good enough to tell them what they *can* and *can't* do/say.
It's very unlikely the FPGAs are to swap out functionality in the main CPU or GPU. They generally aren't very good at stuff like that - they are usually not big or fast enough to do that (there are high end ones that probably could, but you don't want to know the price). They are probably used for things like glue logic or custom functions, perhaps related to debug or video capture, where it didn't make sense to put a whole board full of logic chips. They could also have been used for things like peripheral controllers and the like, perhaps before they had whatever custom silicon would be in the final device.
I would agree. Although the hardware from the 3DS is low end even for the era I doubt that they would just put the CPU in a FPGA. Specially since the 3DS CPU is not a special hardware. Its your run of the mill ARM CPU. A dual core ARM11 with a PICA200 as GPU.
The main difference is that the 3DS also has a ARM9 that controls other stuff (and you can play with both ARM9 and ARM11 at the same time, both can run custom code). Probably the FPGA is there to glue them together.
I think the whole processing unit is spread between all boards, I couldn't see a board with more than one "main" chip and on a retail they are discrete chips.
"Mister" project does exactly that - does hardware emulation of old consoles. It's expensive, but not unbearable so.
@@manoftherainshorts9075 Mister has a Cortex A9 on it and a much newer Cyclone V. Also, until now the limit of Mister is something close to a PSX. A 3DS can emulate a PSX (although slowly) on itself.
Its very hard and costly to put a "modern" architecture CPU running at hundreds if not thousands of megahertz on a FPGA. And ARM CPUs are generic enough to be cheap to purchase instead of trying to build.
Mister try to solve the issue of older more specialized hardware that aren't so generic.
@@manoftherainshorts9075 Quite true. But those are very old CPUs being emulated on modern FPGAs. To explain, the SNES processor might have been a 1um process (can't find exact numbers). The FPGA the Mister uses is 28nm (that's 0.028um). It's not that FPGAs can't emulate CPUs (they certainly can - lookup softcores), but, all other things being equal, an FPGA that can emulate a contemporary CPU will be very expensive, assuming it can do it at all.
Thank you for saying this I was screaming it at our cats through the whole video
The Nintendo 3DS is pretty special to me, since it was my first console. After homebrewing it I also put some of the Dev-Apps on it. Love seeing Linus messing around in these and showing the dev hardware in detail. Great video!
You did WHAT
9:09 His Canadian really came out in that sentence, and that's how you know his reaction was real lol.
Fun fact: that development Wii Classic Controller with the handles actually made it to retail as the Wii Classic Controller Pro, most prominently marketed alongside the Wii release of the Goldeneye 007 remake.
8:12 this did release as the "classic controller pro"
That top FPGA board is no doubt the dual video output board. Reproducing strict video signals and timings are exactly what FPGA's were designed to do
Instant like. This content is insanely cool, glad to see you guys not ignoring any end of the tech spectrum, 3DS has a lot of memories to me.
Your life must suck
11:38
"and the easiest way to get it open seems to be..."
drops it on the floor
That controller Linus was using actually did make it to market as the Classic Controller Pro. The dev one is a weird mix of parts from the white and black models though.
Something about this video has awakened my nostalgia for when the 3DS was first announced and seemed like a crazy premium product. Thanks!
That capture USB: I recall that for the Wii dev kit, you had the ability to "fake" high rez when you took a screenshot, the machine would take a ton of screenshots then come up with a high rez composite.
What kind of absolute madman would let Linus play with his one of a kind dev kit? Dude literally drops everything he touches!
The way he shakes around the open shell made me cringe. That hinge is not hard to damage..
they arent one of a kind lol you used to be able to buy them. yes literally anyone could buy one
I have a small anxiety attack any time I see Linus holding rare or expensive kit - I know I'm not the only one
at 11:35, he nearly drops the controller, and you can see him reaching to grab it
In his head "I can afford to do this." and then immediately breaks the thing he's carelessly swinging around by the most fragile part of it.
I usually don't mind but when it's other people's priceless gear that he's so obnoxiously waving around...
if you mean the 3ds thats basically just a screen no those arent that fragile... plus it was super light cuse there were no other internals except a little display driver for the screen and the 3ds on its own is very sturdy design. ive dropped mine like a million times and it barely shows a scratch from it @@RyanMartinez
As someone who owns a Luma CFW 3DS and used to stream the 3DS over WiFi its awesome to see how Nintendo did it themselfes.
Most of this stuff (systems/software) looks just like a hacked 3DS.
I remember bricking my (if i remember correctly) SysNand before and was so glad that i had a backup.
Any problem when using CFW is a nightmare lmao.
Without a good guide i would have never been able to set up CFW/Luma its crazy how much work, testing and knowledge is needed for stuff like that.
Y'all should have seen the earlier Dev/Test kits... Imagine 2 screens on a giant (far from handheld) motherboard that you had to try to angle to make the 3D effect work in a pre-eye-tracking 3DS. Nausea-inducing, to say the least.
The first PCB has more RAM because its doing video scaling, composite and the DVI out. It needs a framebuffer. The second board with actual Nintendo silicon has another FPGA, probably to use its LVDS drivers to drive the longer cables to the controller.
19:32 someone tell Linus there is a tool called "Locale Emulator" and during XP days you could install Microsoft's own local emulation layer "App Locale" as well. NtLea was another option. All three could co-exist (each worked slightly different and thus the applications would run with one tool, but not with the other), but mainly "Locale Emulator" survived to this day.These tools work with like, I'd say, 97% of the software which require Asian locale settings. At the very least, I only have like a handful of games or software which do not run with the locale emulation. I have likely used it on a multiple of hundred games so far, for which you'd require a Japanese Windows installation otherwise.
Linus y'all should make a series where you guys get these console dev kits or dev consoles to show them off
You guys did the XBox, PS3 and now the 3DS. More would be amazing
@Toma it isn't but they have a large community and people won't mind sending their consoles or dev kits to be features, also it's LMG, they a buncha madlads who'll put off anything that's tech nerdy or tech cool
Im pretty sure ltt is already doing that. As evidenced by this video, and several previous like it
he said at the start he is always wanting to review this things. it's just that they are so rare that it's hard to get ahold of them. even with his massive community it's rare to get even get a couple, even less that would be OK with him disassembling it
These dev kit videos are so cool, it's awesome seeing the behind the scenes
The 3DS is the main handheld I played on as a kid (the main home console being the og Wii, I believe we got it before the Wii U released), and it's cool seeing a devkit for it, even if I think I might of watched videos about it before. Also, apparently Linus never got the memo about the Classic Controller Pro existing for the Wii.
Edit: It’s also a little interesting and weird to see a FPGA used, but I guess it makes sense for a devkit. I guess I just never really thought about it before.
Edit 2: I suppose it is also possible that the Nintendo branded chip may be the SOC for the DS, as I believe the 3DS has a separate SOC inside for the DS, but I don't remember for sure. Obviously I don't know that that's the case, that's just my somewhat educated guess.
As a kid?!
@@zach.0 At the time the 3ds released in 2011, I was about 7.
bruh thats wild i turned 15 then lol@@jnut1246
love that they made the CTR look so similar to the Nitro (DS dev kit) despite being made by a different hardware manufacturer
I love seeing these dev kits.
same
Linus is his name, but spiting Nintendo is his game 🤙
same
Small correction: the 3ds did NOT have bluetooth, the antenna is more likely WiFi+NFC
Correct. I wish it had bluetooth.
@@hicknopunk you could wire up a bluetooth audio transmitter to the headphone jack but yeah something like the psp/psvita/switch have would be great
@@iknowdawae893 i thought of that too, but I really want bluetooth to use a ps4 controller to not wear out my buttons.
@@hicknopunk A software modded 3ds can use an external controller.
@@ImJustPassingThrough i remember using the xbox one controller on 3ds but you needed a pc
3ds was goated man low key
Considering the sales, it's not an unpopular opinion at all.
*trash
Low key? It's the Handheld GOAT period.
@@herooftime9921 yep. People who think the 3DS was a good console are human excrement. Thing had bad games. Vita was better too.
One of the best consoles
The Wii controller i believe is the Classic Pro Controller Nintendo had released with the Wii (after the normal Classic Controller (CC from hereon) that plugged into the Wiimote, they had originally released an ergonomic handle that clipped into the original CC; they later redesigned the CC to integrate the handles into the moulding of the shell itself)
If I was desiging that unit, top board is just for video out handling, middle board is actual 3DS with the actual silicon, bottom board are for debug info JTAG, TRACE, SWD, and running other monitoring stuff
I love how Linus didn’t know about the Classic Controller Pro.
Trust me, a lot of people have been dealing with the nightmare of capturing footage from the 3DS. Well, outside of emulators anyway. I remember Etika having issues with his modded 3DS.
The classic controller with handles was an actual product. I actually still have some for the Wii with the Nintendo branding still showing. Though mine were solid white like the Wii remote not two toned like yours.
I have a Wii classic controller that's a 'pro' version, and it has handles. Linus just doesn't use Google.
Interesting to see that one of the boards uses a SuperH/SH-4 CPU. It's one of those weird RISC ISAs that keeps popping up in places, although it's mostly dead now. Apparently there's still a Renesas µC based on SH-2A with availability through 2029, so not completely dead.
Most famously, especially considering this is a video about a game console (dev kit), a SH-4 CPU was used in the Dreamcast.
9:14 if you put that on a 3D TV you might be able to see it as the player will see on their 3DS...
Swimling you're crazy sending this to Linus who has a tendency to drop things. Linus the way you held that 3ds by the cord made me scream internally 🤣
I jokingly told them not to break it… if you were screaming internally, imagine how I felt lol
Oh I can here it all right
This would actually be pretty fun to play on a 3d tv/projector
I'm disappointed they didn't test it out on an actual 3D TV.
Intelligent Systems is a very long time non-subsidiary company that works exclusively with Nintendo. They actually do a lot of stuff overall, from prototyping to full on game development. They've made a ton of classics like the Paper Mario series, Fire Emblem series, and a lot of the classic small titles Nintendo put out in the 2000's like Tetris Attack, Pushmo, and Advance Wars. They're very similar to HAL Laboratories in this regard, though that company was notable for bringing Sakurai and Iwata directly to Nintendo
Yeah, IS are one of around 6-8 "second-party" developers. Other big names here are Monolith Soft (Xenoblade), SORA Ltd., and of course HAL Laboratory and Game Freak.
Game Freak are especially interesting because they were at one point fully third-party and have titles in their catalog that were published for Sony systems!
@@NebulonRanger Nintendo owns Monolith Soft (97% ownership), they are not a 2nd party. They're on the same level as Retro Studios and Next Level Games, along side a couple lesser known studios that makes up Nintendo's puny resume of acquisitions
@@genderender Yeah, that was the one I was less sure of. I do know IS and Game Freak are functionally independent, as Game Freak in particular still inhabit the same office space in Tokyo they've been headquartered at since the 90s and are still making multiplatform games (as of 2019 at least).
man, calling Advance Wars a "small title" is kinda BS
Awesome video! I will say though the controller for the dev kit isn't based off the Wii classic Controller, it's the Classic Controller Pro. It was released alongside Goldeye on the wii, and featured better button placement for the shoulder and triggers, and actual handles.
I was kind of surprised Intelligent Systems' name wasn't on the 3DS devkit, but glad to see they're on the DS capture device! Fun fact, they started as a hardware partner for Nintendo, particularly manufacturing devkits and other related hardware/software tools, before they wound up developing games themselves.
I've always had a soft spot for the 3DS.
Had a childhood OG 3DS. Got a New 3DS XL for homebrew around the beginning of 2021.
I love to see that the community is keeping it alive, it really is a charming little system.
With that being said, I've had nightmares with NNID and the System Settings music gives me heebie jeebies...
I have yet to know what is happening in this video, but the first frame looks very interesting.
5:06 I'm assuming you tried pressing X?
*_That dev kit would be a 3DS fanatic's dream come true._*
it didnt take me too long to find the comment but i did!
@@tylertr Nice.
Next morning, the Nintendo Ninjas will be paying Linus a visit...
Nice knowing ya, Linus!
Nitpick: The version of the Wii Classic Controller with the grips and upgraded shoulder buttons wasn't development-only, it was shipped for the Wii a few years after the original Classic Controller as the Classic Controller Pro
I think you could've updated the firmware. The problem was most likely that you weren't connected to the internet. At least, going by the previous shot at 5:25 showing that you didn't have a connection you weren't. Of course, if it's using the same wifi adapter as a regular 3DS, those things aren't the most stable, and I've had to try multiple times to do a firmware update.
I dont know if this is the case for this devkit but usually connecting a devkit to the internet on someplace that nintendo didnt whitelist/expect it to be connected in will get your door busted down by police
Linus lately been pushing for that Nintendo cease and desist 💀💀
Honestly, this kind of hardware is unlikely to get a cease and desist.
I don’t know about Nintendo but… I want it
Absolutely loving these deep dives on these dev kits! I really hope that you continue to get some more from other consoles as well! Also: watch out for the Nintendo Hitmen... Your probably on a hit list somewhere now 🤣
19:56
Starladder Berlin Csgo event in 2019
won by Astralis
Actually the Wii IR Bar wasn't an Ir receiver but only infrared lights using a power output from the console, the IR receiver was built in the console
Who in their right mind would trust Linus to told something like this...
Dev Kits are always so crazy
The 3DS has 2 CPUs. The ARM11 SoC/GPU and main RAM is on the smaller board, the ARM9 SoC is on the larger board along with most of the other 3DS hardware.
fun fact for any other machine shop nerds like me; the Altera Cyclone processor is also used on Haas CNC machines (their "NGC" controller introduced in 2016).
Alright, whose bright idea was it to let Linus Drops Tips to hold an extremely rare machine?
Especially when he was holding the boards 💀💀💀
THE WAY HE WAS SWINGING THE 3DS AROUND BY THE CORD BRO NOOOOO
bro has modded 3ds dev kit wtf
Remember Nintendo Minute ? Those guys streamed 3DS gameplay into screens with a special cable. Maybe the streaming machines still and are sitting somewhere in a basement collecting dust
cool to see how trailer gameplay was made
I struggle to understand how small developers and indie devs have been able to develop their games with entry requirements this high and expensive
One way is by using a 3rd party porting service. These are studios with devkits who don't develop their own games but instead take contracts from other studios/publishers to port PC games to console.
Services like these are actually required for certain game engines like Godot. This is because manufacturers treat console APIs as proprietary (not just the code itself but even the names of function calls) and don't typically allow any references to their APIs to be checked-in to open source game engines. Porting services can get around this by adding calls to the console APIs internally since they have the licenses and devkits to do so.
These weird licensing restrictions on game middleware are also part of why some studios can't release multiplayer server code even if they wanted to as doing so might breach a licensing agreement.
The Wii did have a "pro" style controller that looked very similar to the dev console controller. It was normally gold painted and was only sold for a limited time. That said, yes, the most common controller was the one that looked like an SNES controller.
4:08 that is such a familiar screen to me that i immediately felt the secondhand frustration of my 3ds crashing
Nintendo devkits are the epitome of "well, it works..."
Great review, good job 👍
The video is 5 minutes old you didn't even watch all of it 💀
Why did no one try to stop him from even attempting a system update? It's a dev kit, and they already knew it was on custom firmware. But sure, haphazardly mess around with this 'precious relic' and then try something as drastic as a system update when you screw up the settings..
I bet the lender got triggered watching that nearly happen. I'm surprised it didn't end up totally bricked
I can only imagine if linus were to discover one of the original 3ds devkits: just one big unprotected circuit board sitting on a metal plate, with both screens and buttons/joysticks welded to it; no separate dummy 3ds.
always a great day when linus uploads!
Bot reply?
I hope someone can reverse engineer this and make a device like this, it would be so useful to have this for game development and streaming
Why? No one is developing for the 3ds anymore.
You should look into emulation software instead. Those can often also increase the resolution of rendering to make it look better than on the console. Of course it might be a bit less fun without the 3D aspect, but 99% of viewers would just watch in 2D anyway.
I am sure some people already corrected you, but the controller you wired in isn't developer exclusive. It's the revised Wii Classic Controller Pro. The original Wii Classic Controller is the one without handles, but a revision called Classic Controller Pro has the handles.
10:45 both sides looks like the back to me
Let's see how long time it takes until Nintendo takes this down 😅
U might get sued at this point lmao
this isnt the only one. theres a dev 3ds thats in an actual 3ds and can play certain catridges a normal 3ds cant.
That black and white controller you were using is just a Wii Pro Controller. Its not a Dev controller (or it could be, but its just a shell swap)
The controller was used for the WII U, it was also used on the Pokken Tournament arcade machine
These devkit videos are so cool. I would love to see a PS2 devkit sometime in the future. There were Debug versions of the PS2, which looked identical to retail except they could run games from any region and had some over-LAN debugging features, the Test PS2s which again are identical to retail except they lack the debugging stuff but will run games from any region, and then there's the big behemoth that is the PS2 TOOL, which is essentially a huge PS2-looking box that houses both PS2 hardware and a Linux PC for development and compiling, each with separate video outputs, at least from what I understand.
One thing Linus didn't consider is that daughter board could have the chip of the Nintendo DS on it. Nintendo's handhelds would essentially add on to the previous generation and use the prior system's cpu to help run games. It's why the 3DS can run GBA games without emulation. The GBA CPU helped run DS games and the 3DS retained backwards compatibility with the DS. I've even read that the CPU of the Game Boy Micro still has the GBC processor in it, but they couldn't put the switch in that toggled between the modes.
Long story short, even the 3DS was still a Game Boy at heart.
Nintendo : *shuts down the whole 3DS store* "Your move Linus."
P.S. : Can anyone explain to ignorant me why a console that has WIFI cannot simply stream on the TV with that?
-Linus doesn't realize or forgot about Classic Controller Pro
I never even HAD an OG Wii Classic Controller, I just had the Gold controller from Goldeneye Wii, so I never had to even DEAL with the lesser controller.
Owning multiple dev kits (I have 2 Wii NDEV units, IS-NITRO-EMULATOR, a PS3 Test unit and a custom PS1 homebrew setup), I can definitely say that they are awesome. Both hardware and Software.
Hardware side : for one, they are cool as hell. But there's more to it. Official dev kits have an amazing eletronics quality. They generally have top of the line capacitors, resistors and are generally well designed.
Software side : You got full control. Of course, nowadays it's a bit tricky to install Nintendo NTR SDK and REVOLUTION SDK because of license expired, but I found a smarty way to have them running. The different tools you have (debugger, compiler etc..) really does the job extremely well.
Of course, the price, even nowadays, are kinda big, though I bought mines for quite cheap. The bigger problem is availability. It's rare to have good things on ebay right now with dev kits, so the only way to not miss anything is to watch everyday.
But other than that, for collection or actual dev, those things are amazing.
And it's a pleasure to see those reviewed !
I have one that's known as the IS-CTR-Box. It's practically the same as the one in this video just without the ability to capture and output video to a monitor but overall it's cool piece of tech nonetheless. Currently I'm using it to teach myself how to program for the hardware and the debugging features really do come in handy.