I'm not coping with this very well - Therapist Plays Disco Elysium: Part 26
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
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We're back! And still not coping very well with all that's going on in our compromised brain. Next episode is available already through patreon if you're a supporter; coming to YT shortly www.patreon.com/eurobrady. Enjoy!
I'm curious what your opinion is on many psychologists wanting to remove narcissism personality disorder from the DSM as a separate diagnosis because they view it more as a spectrum encompassing all types of personality disorders (similar to how Aspergers became a part of the autism spectrum). I'm not a psychologist, I am a medical anthropologist (though I actually have presented research at a psychology conference before addressing a different kind of topic), but this idea seems to carry some weight in my opinion. You defined personality disorders as a problem with self-reflection and difficulty coping with other people. One of my colleagues, who is a psychologist, basically defined the difference between a personality and mood disorder as a personality disorder being inward-facing: the person in question is thinking about themselves and in a sense are very self-interested. The mood disorder is different in that it is basically reactionary, ie. outward facing, and that people with mood disorders do not necessarily have the same issues with self-reflection or being empathetic, essentially. There are chemical imbalances and biological foundations, to be sure, just as with personality disorders, but the divergence seems to be with how the afflicted person views and interacts with others, ie. how they fit into the culture or society. I think this theoretical framework makes the modest movement to consider narcissism as a spectrum of personality disorders make sense.
I'm not trying to challenge or anything, I am legitimately curious how you view these ideas in your field. Thanks.
I like that perspective about personality being inward facing conflict and mood being outward. They become recursive on each other but the core issue definitely has a specific direction. As for personality disorders being considered on more of a spectrum, I do think it needs some reclassification that way. There are many times where it feels like there is personality stuff going on with someone but the volume is turned pretty low on it. Considering how a personality diagnosis follows people for life, I'm sometimes hesitant to give it when it only kind of fits. Just as ASD was reclassified as being on a continuum I think it only makes sense to take that perspective on many of the other diagnoses that try to explain a person's entire worldview and behaviors. Hopefully we see that in the next revision, but change on that scale is often glacial.
@@eurobrady awesome response. Thanks a lot. Cool getting a bit of an academic perspective from you in addition to your more “teaching oriented” videos.
Holy heck, that choice to write on the active screen without going to the blackboard is so amazing!
yeah its great i also love the possibility that brady can now draw a little hat on harry or kims portraits
It felt like an actual game moment, extremely immersive
Kim doesn't want to talk about the pale because he thinks that you can't handle it, not that he can't
he is scared of you not being able to cope with it, tho. and i think he feels responsible for you
Well maybe he can’t handle it. Maybe he can only push it to the back of his mind, for the sake of his work. Can any of us truly handle global warming and its implications? Or do we just stop thinking about it temporarily
...but why does he think that? Isn't it because it's something that scares the hell out of him on a deeper level?
@@SergK86 because harry is an alcoholic who forgot everything (because of the aforementioned alcoholism) and regularly has "20 hour mind projects"
@@SergK86 also yeah you might be right
Klaasje’s attitude towards you has been odd from the very beginning: the moment Harry first steps out of his room on the first day she is _so_ casual interacting with him, despite everything she heard him say and do previously. When you learn more about her relationship with Lely and how fond she was of him, it starts to make a lot more sense.
The reason she has “compromised” your skills to such a degree is because she’s simply used to handling men like Harry, to the point where she’s really good at it. It’s why she just goes along with whatever wild shit you say to her. She wants to feel in control no matter what you do. It’s not really about playing around. When you look at it that way, it does seem to be her own sort of defense mechanism.
In a way the Harry is like the mercenary. Both have coping mechanisms and running jokes. Both in a way broken and heavy drug abusers. Klassja can talk to Harry without the sexuality that she would to the merc and he’d still fall for her.
This made me realise that the reason I still think of my ex, and kinda miss him is not that I miss the person.
He was my only way of coping for a year, and I felt he was the only one to understand me.
Ironically, once he figured out I was using him to cope he felt drained by me and left.
The feeling I had for him was more dependence than love.
This will definitely help me deal with those emotions and finally move on.
I like the way you analyze the use of the flashlight, to me it feels like your Harry not only uses the flashlight to cosplay as his idea of a cop, but also uses it as a sort of spotlight so he can avoid introspection and self-confrontation by putting the focus on others. As always, love your videos!
Also, resident Dutch person here: the Oranese stuff is definitely based on the Netherlands. The names, the orange - clear as day. I have family in Lelystad and everything.
(Hearing the way the voice actors pronounce words like "Klaasje" and "Oranjenrijk" in this game is so interesting, but that's a discussion for another day.)
Is there something wrong with these pronunciations? Isn't J kind of like Y in Germanic languages?
@@TheR00kprobably the fact that most of the actors are either english or french speakers so there are sounds that they try to make sound native to disco elysium that the actors might not be able to make like natives speakers
@@TheR00k english is a germanic language
18:37 He said the word 👀
Internally coherent!
To the mega
haaaaardcooooore
To quote one of the tooltips in Disco Elysium: "Don't be afraid to say *weird* things. People are more forgiving to persons of power - like police officers."
Even though sometimes lines of questioning can feel odd, I like to think that to some extent they are part of Harry's modus operandi, regardless of how one chooses to play him. That's just the kind of person he is! Not to mention sometimes saying weird things catches characters off-guard, which is a great chance to press certain lines of questioning. Just saying this, because hearing you remark "someone's going to be mad about this" every so often made me think about how difficult it must be to play this game in front of an audience, where some people are bound to assume that your character's choices = your own choices as a person, or god forbid, as a professional. 😅 You got this, go on, be a weird unapologetic disaster of a Supercop! ⭐
Fun fact, now that you talked to Klaasje about the murder victim some more: If your intelligence would have been higher, you could've found out a lot of this stuff at the autopsy already!
Doesn't make thaaat much of a difference but it's really cool to see. I did my first run with a high INT Harry and it's cool to see a completely different character build here, especially with how you roleplay him.
honey wake up new brady DE video !!
Every now and then Kim will play along with Harry’s weirdness if he sees the value in it. it’s super adorable when he does!
18:38 - HARDCORE!
YEAAGHH!
TO THE MEGA
INTERNALLY COHERENT
Is it tho? I’m beginning to think that it isn’t.
HERE COMES THE NIGHT!
I love the fact that this playtrough doesn't go for "what Brady would say" but "what Raphael would say" and the professional explanation afterwards.
Your save containing "Are you manipulating me?" makes the whole conversation here even better. Up to you if you want to reexplore that file, for *bonus content*.
I feel like I'm learning a lot with the diagrams. My ways to cope haven't been the most balanced to my psyche.
26 Episodes so far of DE lining them up and Brady knocking them down 😄
It’s almost like this game understands people…. 🤔
Politically minded people love this game because it does the same thing with politics as psychology: if you're educated on the subject, it feels like Disco Elysium reads your mind.
Yes whenever these drop I can’t click fast enough
As a very insecure person it's hard to distinguish when I'm developing my volition and protecting myself to when I'm just being too proud
It helps me to imagine these inner voices in a lawyerly, legal context. Volition developing is, in that context, like being what is called a "zealous advocate", for yourself.
I wonder if you'll go back and ask Klassje for her passport. Harry not asking for it before could be part of his sorry cop phase, not wanting to press too hard on things that may inconvenience someone. But now that he is the super cop, and Klassje has slighted him by tricking him and omitting information or lying, perhaps he will try and get all the information he can about her.
Great episode, as always. I'm so excited to see your interactions with the characters from across the canal, now that it's been repaired.
I like how The Game suddenly became the bradyboard
I haven't watched the video till the end yet, but this game is a perfect fit for you dude lmao
Volition is my favorite skill in the game. Just the idea of having one single skill reining in the others and all the crazy things going on in the game is funny
ALL YA GUYS AND GALLS SKILLS HAVE BEEN COMPROMISED! ..., but not by Klaasje, but by Volition.
Face it crowd, yes, Volition's main purpose is to protect Harry's self-esteem. But it is also deeply mysogynist!
Basically blaming Klaasje for being attractive to Harry on so many levels, and trying to denounce every aspect of Harry's own personality, that makes Harry feel drawn to Klaasje as traitorous.
In a list of all skills "compromised" by Klaasje, Volition itself is the first and worst offender, wildly projecting Harry's own insecurity in the most hateful way outward.
Pretty much most of those "compromised" skills have actually quite rational reasons for trusting Klaasje, as she represents herself in a very authentic and consistent way, self aware, mature, empathic and emotionally honest.
It is actually Volition itself, which is highly irrational. Nothing in Klaasje's actual dialogue lines or descriptions actually points to her being manipulative or secretive, beyond reasonable basic caution about self preservations.
This guy's compromised.
Diving into the role and then breaking the surface to explain the character you're playing is brilliant. I won't lie, I've never been good at learning, but I've picked up a lot about psychology following this LP
18:38 HARDCORE TO ZE MEGA!
Are distraction and avoidance distinct from each other? It seems like they would have some overlap.
My character was also Psyche/Physique. It was very fun - the dichotomy between the nebulous skills like Inland and Empathy, and the very grounded, adrenaline-pumped skills like Physical Instrument and Endurance was cool.
Oranje is the Netherlands in Disco Elysium, yeah. They were chosen for the mercenaries in this game as a reference to specific events in the late 1900s.
As Kim's mentioned it when you spoke with Paledriver, he's not concerned about the Pale for his own sake - he's concerned that you would have broken if you heard about it.
Those random questions about "Did love do him in" and "Did communism kill him" are from your little surreal Inland Empire moment where you 'spoke' with Lely's corpse during the field autopsy.
Also, in case it helps your analysis of Kim, the talk about the Moralintern and all that with him back during the Day 1 Debrief on the balcony lets a bit of his internal concerns slip through. He was a moralist earlier in life, but has become disillusioned. Now, the only things he believes in are "facts" and the RCM. Despite this, he's still a bit defensive of them ("There are far more nefarious powers to work for than the Moralintern"). He seems to be a guy who cares deeply about the world around him and wants to believe, but can't. Maybe he only clings to the RCM because he feels like it's the only good thing the city has going for it? At the same time, I feel like he has a real knee-jerk need for authority - he is quick to attempt to assert the RCM's dominance over the Union even in matters where the Union is beneficial to the people of Martinaise, and comes to the Moralists' defense (the people who grant authority to the RCM) even when he (honestly) claims to no longer buy their motto. Perhaps its born of a feeling of insecurity, either social (RCM is quasi-legal, need to always justify its existence to the world or else it will be ineffecgive) or personal?
One of the main creators and writers of this game, Robert Kurvitz, is from Estonia. There are references in the worldbuilding to many European countries and cultures that are analogous to our own and to his experience in post-Soviet Estonia. I know he did so in his 2013 novel Sacred and Terrible Air, which shares the same world as Disco Elysium and chronologically happens after this game.
Also, since your character is going in on the delusion roleplay, the most delusional thought to invest in might be the Magnesium-based lifeform thought. But you can choose any other thought now for the thought cabinet, since I don't want to backseat!
OK, I see another angle on "Harry's skills being compromised." Let's remember, the concept was brought up by "Volition", which is in itself one of Harry's skills, so just another unreliable narrator, identified by its main goal to protect Harry's self-esteem.
I mean, what objectively happened is, that Harry feels attracted to Klaasje in more than one way, then his traumatized memorys of relations with women turns around, and does the best to blame Klaasje for somehow deceiving him.
I mean, all of Harrys skills have always been "compromised" from the very beginning. None of them has a truely objective view of thw world, all of them have always been tinted and colored by Harrys personal experiences and short-comings. But when the same thing that constantly happens, happens with Klaasje, this is suddenly a terrfying and catastrophic development, that classifies Klaasje as an end end-game super boss monster.
To put it in other words, Harry's "Volition" is deeply misogynist, and his misogyny is acting up to "protect" harry from the "viles" of an attractive woman, by vilifying her for Harry's desire.
Which works especially well with Klaasje, who obviously have come to turn with being desired by men long ago in her biography, and doesn't react judgmental to men, who don't hide their desire, but actually affirms it. Her reaction to Harry's super awkward "I want to have fuck with you" on first encounter was a very genuinely narrated laughter, but without any passive agressive implications.
And yet Volition is also correct that all of Harry's other skills go way easier on Klaasje because he is attracted to her. Ofc all the skills are being filtered through Harry's lens but it's pretty inarguable that his skills are extra unreliable when it comes to Kllasje. You can argue that Volition is motivated by misogyny but that doesn't change the fact that it's correct in this instance.
@@Thatguypat It is extremely easy to argue, that that is just nonsense. What would be the objective scale to measure, that those skills should be harsher to Klaasje?
The only reason to assume that is that Harry got boo-boo from women before.
It's not that Klaasje does weird shit or behaves abusive or incoherent, and then Harry comes up with obvious excuses, because she is pretty.
Klaasje just acts like a cool gal from the first moment Harry meets her.
@@stefanb6539 She demonstrably lies several times, and harry's skills deliberately and explicitly give the most charitable interpretation of her actions at all times.
@@Thatguypat Blaming her for what Harrys "skills" supposedly do is completely mental. Thats clearly a Harry problem, not a Klaasje problem.
"Oooh, I clearly feel favorable of this woman. Burn her on the stake, she must be a witch for seducing a man of the cloth like me!"
Volition hates her guts, and all the "deliberation" and "explicity" comes from Volition. The "proof" is everytime any other aspect of Harry sees her favorably, Volition brands that trait as traitor, without any further debate.
Also, when does she demonstrably lie? She herself? Not Harry, not Titus, not anyone else? Cause my count doesn't go up extremely high.
There might be one or two lies at the end, when she is clearly desperate and in fear for her life, but most of the time, she is shockingly honest.
I mean, if she intentionally tried to manipulate Harry, the easiest thing for her would be to just stick to Titus rape narration and play the victim card.
Kims opinion on woman? Seems like a 20-hour thought project to me
INLAND EMPIRE [Challenging: Success]: Stop. Don't progress the dialogue. Now would be a perfect time to talk about coping mechanisms. Don't ask why, just get talking.
In the vision, he said "Communism killed me" and " love did me in". There is significance to those words but it's pretty much impossible to fully understand it until certain information is revealed. The "something miraculous is coming" line is a more... complex revelation, I'm not sure that it really came to pass.
You keep getting amazed that the game has already "predicted" your analysis on it. That's a good example of how good work the writers had put into the game's dialogues. I haven't researched about it, but it seems that they actually did their reading on the themes they wanted to present in the game before stitting down and write the script.
Not that it matters all that much, as this was probably explained months ago, but Rhetoric chimes in at around 44 minutes because it is a passive check. Those are always the value of the skill (here 2) + 6. So it will always chime in for any passive roll that has a value of 8(or lower). Shivers(5+6) would go to 11(and lower) and so on.
I believe we will get to the end of the game in the year 2030.
Heh, actually, there is another coping item in the game, that is designed around the principles you described - it’s The Ledger.
There are two outcomes when opening the hidden compartment in it. One is a healthier way, another is more self destructive, but in the end - holding the Ledger helps Harry manage himself. With the bonuses to Authority and Volition that he gets when the ledger is held in hand.
The ledger reminds him, that he’s in fact not a total loser, but just a very sad cop, but one that has effectively cracked around 280 cases in this ledger alone. Which is a lot, Kim has around 5 cases in his and around 20 cases of small theft or something?
Anyhow, to say more would be to spoil future content, so I’ll stop here :)
I think we saw Kim at his most acutely stressed so far with the racist driver. Usually he stays aloof and detached especially with cuno, but he drops the facade briefly to tear into the "welcome to revachol" guy
If you had brought Kim to ugh you when you realised you were compromised you could’ve asked him if she influences him the same way. If I remember it right he says that he isn’t.
You pronounce Den Haag perfectly fine, including the G. The characters in game don't pronounce Lelystad in Dutch, the E is a long vowel and rather than a short "Leh" sound. Then again, names of places are commonly pronounced a bit differently by other nationals the world over. But if Klaasje is from Oranje... (could be just the voice actor, since various people in game pronounce some of the same names differently, or it could be something else...)
Funny when you mention Kim being compromised, if you make that volition check to “look her in the eye” with Kim present you can ask him about his opinion on the matter. He says something like he is not easily affected by young women. Is up to you to believe him or not at that point.
Im on the patreon but try not to watch them early cus I like seeing the other youtube comments and feeling like watching along with a community - and hey this way maybe it bumps you up in the algorithm aha
I like how your “indignation” towards Klaasje is constantly broken up by stifled laughter
also wow, it’s so obvious now how Volition is just as compromised as the rest of them lol
BTW brady if the option that you heard something or said something shows up, it means you did it indeed
I knew you would loove klaasje and drama surrounding her
[Brady starts talking about personality disorders, writes "avoidance" on the screen.]
Me, diagnosed with Avoidant Personality Disorder: Wait, am I finally going to hear this talked about by someone *in the wild*?
[Brady mentions borderline and narcissistic personality disorders, then moves on.]
Me: Ahw nuts.
(Not a criticism, by the way - this was a really interesting episode as always and I loved hearing your thoughts on how Harry responds to Klaasje. My ears just always perk up when I hear someone say the words "personality disorder" but no one ever talks about APD.)
I watched this video 5 hours ago and i have come back to comment. I absolutely love this series and i would say one of the best disco elysium series out there. Your commentary is so interesting to listen to along with how the game is laid out and unfolds. Your tangents and deep dive into how our minds work is truly fascinating!!
But on the other end there is so much more of this game for you to explore and so many more characters to meet. I don’t want you to get discouraged the takes so long and stuff gets forgotten. Maybe focus on getting ahead a bit?
Keep at it! God speed
Edit: im literally back one minute later but i want to add. As a person in my early 20ies i feel like everything you say is so valuable and gets picked up in my brain. I had no idea what coping mechanisms actually were and now i know!!
Thank you for the explanation about coping skills. That was very helpfull.
Something often forgotten is electrochemistry also involves…. Sex.
Even though you’re compromised, that doesn’t mean Klassje is lying about everything. No need to overcompensate
COPING TIER LIEST LETS GO
Say Gex
DE is a weird pastiche of real-world influences when it comes to geopolitics. Now you know Oranje is kinda Netherlands. So Occidental is something like European, maybe. Oranje is also a member of EPIS - could that be the EU? This also gives context to Klaasje studying "Oranjese lit".
The thing you say about a coping by basing all your coping mechanisms on one person is exactly how I play Harry with Kim. My Harry does a lot of things just because it’ll make Kim proud, because then Kim will like him, if Kim likes him he can’t be _that_ fucked up, right? Because Kim is so cool.
I just think Harry is all or nothing, all the time. With drugs, with feelings, with politics, with people. Addictive personality, I guess.
Cop-ing? Isn't it natural for cops to do that? xD
I'll excuse myself for this dry joke now.
Thanks for the coping talk though. I really appreciate the part about differences between coping skills and coping strategies.
Im waiting for the Truman show esque moment when brady realizes that the game is listening to his audio and then instantly changing the dialogue prompts to what he was talking about lol
Thank you. Today I've learned many new things from you about the nature of coping and how little trips away from reality is a good thing.
The whole mercenary part of Oranje gives me big Boer South African vibe.
I really enjoyed this discussion. My PhD thesis is on coping. More specifically, I'm proposing the links between coping and the theory of the three basic psychological needs : the need of autonomy, competence and relatedness. In other words, I don't think the strategy in of itself is enough to guarantee a positive or negative outcome, but rather that its effectiveness is based on the satisfaction (or frustration) of those needs. And so, while Harry is building a façade, he's still the sorry cop inside, as despite the super cop persona he's trying to portray, it's not helping his basic psychological needs. We can think that his path to solving his case will 1) satisfy his competence needs that he's a good detective, 2) satisfy his autonomy that he was in charge and didn't need Kim or any backup to do it for him, and ultimately got his life in order once more, and 3) probably reclaim a sense of relatedness within his precinct by proving to them he's no longer a mess.
After rewatching the game after playing it " communism killed killed him" makes soooo much fucking sense. Wtf how do u do that inland Empire
Dude I don't want to spoil much, but in your last vid on patreon, you missed the bridge you could go over completely. Lots more down there and it's where you want to go next - and also home of the second best character in disco.😊😊
you and the game are on one line, maybe one of the writers was a therapist
It’s gotta be. How can a person be on the same level as a literal therapist, if not for being one? Or else being very serious about taking notes from being IN therapy.
I think the lead writer went through therapy because of depression, alcoholism and drug abuse.
19:50 It looks like you accidentally selected 'Catchphrase' instead of 'Coping mechanism' at the last second... now we have to cope with never knowing the real truth.
Just like the game surprises you by "reading your thoughts" this episode was on point for me - I was just talking to my therapist today about how I keep distracting myself and avoiding thinking about grief (mom died last month) and here we go, episode about coping! Thank you.
Do remember, there are important choices.
Harry is a broken man, and a failed supercop, but when the cards are down, he does the right thing.
So long as you let him
disco elysium is a very politically focused game, and for that reason a lot of streamers/let's-players have focused most on politics in their analysis of the game.
i love the focus on psychology and social dynamics as a change from all that--and clearly the game doesn't mind it, given how many times it had directly confirmed what you were saying instantly afterward 😆 is that spooky or just exciting?
I honestly can't wait until you get into late game. The game really has a twist.
as for culture, disco elysium is inspired by estonia, france, holland and i assume some parts of the uk for the sea power side of things and the other countries outside of le caillou have inspirations with other countries in asia
Cope cop
You can say he's...
Cop-ing.
Hell yeah.
Harry is so desperate to cope that he became a cop!
Hey! Your video on the 1st episode of symphogear showed op on my TH-cam today and I decided to check your channel, and I couldn't help but notice that you stopped at ep 4, is there any reason for that? As a big fan of the series it got me curious.
He’s no longer doing reaction content. He actually finished the entire first season but it will not be uploaded it to TH-cam. Instead you can find it in the archive on the Discord server, which you need to be a patreon member/twitch subscriber to access.
when you talk about avoidance and distraction as coping mechanism, what would you recommend for someone with anxiety? distraction doesn't solve the issue like you say but with an issue like anxiety where it's completely out of your control what can you do to go to the roots of the issue?
I would recommend looking into cognitive defusion. It's a CBT perspective that gets into the attachments we develop to our negative thoughts. It's less about trying to reduce the frequency of the anxious thouhts, which is what we try to do when we're being avoidant or distracting ourselves (aka turning off the anxiety), and more about learning to see and believe more of your thoughts than just the anxious ones, reducing their overall impact or importance in how you feel about something.
Oranje is pretty much the netherlands yeh. Measurehead also jokes about oranjese people loving clogs and potatoes... :9
I believe it's clogs and lactose intolerance for the Maun, as Jean-Luc calls them. It's the Kojkos (Slav equivalents) that are inexplicably obsessed with the potaat.
@@ImVeryOriginal the maun (as said by jean-luc) is a name for a collection of nation states, including the oranjese. (although encyclopedia says it specifically is a derogatory name for the gottwaldians).
i was wrong about the potatoes yeh. misremembered. lactose intolerance is also not very dutch. But there's enough evidence to suppose it's the dutch equivalent.
There is a reason in-universe it feels like she is lying.
Love the drawing over the game screen!
beautoful ranga
Given your continued reaction I think you should rename the series 'Therapists gets played...By Klaasje of course' 🤣🤣🤣
18:37 YEAAAAAAGH!
This is why the necktie is his friend. It's the only "person" he thought he could trust for years.
BRADY
THIS GAME GETS PEOPLE. ROBERT KURVITZ IS V E R Y GOOD AT PEOPLE
I wonder if he’s been a therapist tbh 🤔
No, but he has been to psychiatry multiple times, if I understand it correctly, for addictions, mostly alcoholism. He is one of us.
How much do you prepare for each episode? These feel like mental health course thinly veiled in a playthrough.
No preparation, but I teach on these same subjects frequently at work so I usually have a practiced way of explaining something already
You were asking if he enjoyed his death and the question after it because when tou talked to corpse it said that he was enjoying it and love with communism did him in.
Love did him in. Communism killed him. Very important distinction.
Euro Brady, You're fantastic! Let's be friends and have fun!
Yes