Thought the same! I "endured" it, coz the content is interesting. So, please, FMC, keep it up but either without or at least with tuned down music in the background. Better without it;-).
It's not music. It's the cams rattling on another KTM in the background. Good, fair, balanced assessment of the problem by Mr Flows. It's astonishing that anyone even contemplates buying one of these machines now. And the way in which KTM has sidestepped the problem is an absolute disgrace. What a sad end to a hitherto reputable company.
@@m2menuiserie540 it’s a very sad situation, and yet we see people on the FB pages still buying them, saying it’s all just a hype, or the “deal” was to sweet to not buy it. Thanks for watching!!!
Mine has just failed 19 k miles and after service for valve check , Ktm new the oil feed problem and chose not to recall the bikes on that year 2019 ..will not be buying a Ktm in the future , and will tell everyone I see on 790 890 to get rid of their bikes
So crazy he has to go through all that work and trouble pulling proof of service just to have to pay for labor. I'd rather just try my luck at doing the top end myself.
You are absolutely right, it’s a crazy deal with this issue. If they don’t come through then we will fix it ourselves. If that happens we will make a video for sure
I changed my own cams and followers because it was cheaper than paying labor and hoping KTM gave me parts. $800 in parts. The best part is, when you have what looks like galling on the cams KTM says they are "discolored," and you should buff them off and put it back together. WTF? I will NEVER BUY A KTM PRODUCT AGAIN.
I don´t mind the music. Sure it is kind of annoying, but as you said, it is a learning process. I want to support smaller channels. You earned a sub and my like.
I did a video on the 890 and touched on its reliability issues, I was blown away with the amount of comments concerning head internals failing at around 12,00 miles
Take a class action out against KTM. KTM have been selling motorcycles with cylinder-heads that are not designed with a correct oil-feed to the camshafts. Hence, these KTM motorcycles with this type of cylinder-head are not of merchantable quality. KTM have since superseded the original flawed cylinder-head with a newly improved design, which has to be installed along with new cam-shafts.
Pressed on lobes with a crush fit instead of making them for one piece of billet , it’s not enough that KTM charges so much for their bikes , but cut corners as well to increase profits ,top end failures for years on these bikes ,you’d think they would just do it properly by now. They deny so many warranty’s when they know it’s entirely their own doing , total scam company.
If you respect your money, stay away from european junks. These days, all the companies, hunt horsepower via tight tolerances to meet euro 5 regulations and the mechanical parts always fail. Buy japanese bikes only.
I’m a big Japanese fan myself, but I have to be honest I have a 2020 husky te250 2 stroke and that bike is working like clockwork. Never a single issue
Hardly. The Ducati Testastretta engine (937cc L Twin) is a bomb proof design. Guys who regularly track this motor can't destroy it. Has a long, proven track record. I put over 13k miles on my DesertX in the first year of ownership, at 15k miles now. I have a 5 year/unlimited mileage TRANSFERABLE warranty on my Ducati. I plan on selling it in year 4, with around 50k miles on it. Will have my local Ducati Dealer (AMS Ducati Dallas) do a full PPI and inspection report on the bike before listing it for sale. You don't know how much a vehicle costs until you sell it. 😊
but KTM say this is not happening must be my imagination I am watching this, thanks for adding some evidence, but as others have said the music is not helping but it is your vid.
@@bikenavbm1229 well sadly it is happening, and many bikes are victim to the issue. The music problem has been fixed in the update video 😉. Thank for watching!!!
I think the FTC, and State AG's need to get involved with this issue. If it was rare it would be one thing, but this is very common. The owner shouldn't have to pay a dime for failure in manufacturing. KTM will continue shafting customers as long as people allow them to get away with it.
@@maximusmiles8435 actually it seems like ktm is coming through for the customers on a case by case deal. They won’t recall all the bikes but they agreed to fix my buddy’s bike for free. Thanks for watching!!!
i have a 2019 KTM 790R with 12,500 miles, did the first service with the dealer but all subsequent oil changes were done by me, if my cams are toast i hope they don't try to bullshit me. All oil changes were done at 5,000 miles or less, KTM recommends 9,800 miles, which is crazy!
Orange used to be a Great Flavor, I've owned a number of KTM's but won't buy again. This issue has simply been around far too long without resolution by the manufacturer, and support for the impacted owners is sadly lacking. I think the modern trend to extend oil change intervals is also not working in the owners favor.
Oils have become better over the years but bikes has way too little oil and too high rpm and power and also the debris from the wet clutch. I have a Husky 701, it has 10000km oil change interval. A Husky 501 has 15 hours. They have almost the same amount of oil (very little) If i would follow the recommendations i would be at my second oil change at 185 hours, second after the initial break-in oil change. So that would be like 170 hours or so on the same oil.
@@tonyharding5336 There is still no concrete answer out there for they question. Some say the cams are soft, some say the followers are the issue. Some say it’s he oil jet. At this point we don’t have a answer, what I personally do think is that the extreme cam profile in conjunction with the follower setup is a problem. Thanks for watching
KTM bikes are expensive to maintain and are not user friendly when it comes to doing work on them yourself unless you have some reasonable mechanical aptitude.I have spent plenty on my old 950 over the years with the power and performance making it difficult to let go of.The new T7 tenere looks like a cheaper more reliable option.
I agree 💯 with you!!! They are fun bikes but pricey and high maintenance. I own a t7 myself and love the bike, motor is basically bulletproof, but suspension is a bit on the weak side. Thanks for watching
@@cliftonsr honestly I don’t know, the owner of the bike took it to the dealer and is waiting for it to get repaired, they said ktm will warranty parts and labor. Thanks for watching
@@FMC-20244 thanks friend, good work on your videos and keep us posted if you find out about the thimble filter screen being in the cylinder head or not because that is very important to know.
Makes no difference newer or older head design. A guy in the uk has proved the oil pressure at the squirter isnt the cause. The camshafts lobes are individually pressed on to the shaft, it's looking more likely that some of the lobes have not been heat treated correctly, not an issue with oiling as some early 790's are still going strong with over 20k.
@@adamhrachowina9119 thank you for that input!!! Honestly I never thought about how camshafts are made, always thought they where a one piece design. I’ll have to look closer into that. Thanks for watching!!!
@@FMC-20244 You're welcome, so much contradictory info floating around. His investigation mirrors what a few people have been thinking. He's sent a set of worn cams away for metallurgy testing and awaiting him putting the next vid up with findings, a UK guy, but annoyingly I can't remember his channel 😡 I also suspected the same when I looked at a set, the lobes are all individual not one piece like traditional cams so there's a potential for some errors during manufacture. Despite some saying not enough oil was getting through the oil ways, the bearing journals don't wear. Also the squirters were in question but he debunked that. The best I've found is a billet inlet cam, but it's for the Duke motor. Loads more mid to top power and looking at the graphs we wouldn't lose any low end, but that would remain to be seen and depend on how the cam was degree'd and the tuners attention to ign timing creating a new map. I checked my 890 cams early at 6k and continue to do so at early intervals. As a daily driver mine gets started at 05:30 and ridden straight off, I don't sit there like some waiting for the oil to "warm up" that's just stupid. The engine should be run normally without thrashing until at full temp. I'll have a look for the vid later and link it for your info 👍
@@adamhrachowina9119 i absolutely agree that there is a lot of difference and controversy info around. I take my 25 years of motorcycle mechanic knowledge and what I have right in front of me. I’m not a engineer so it’s always interesting to see what the smarter people can find out!!! Thanks for the insight and yes please share a link to that video if you find it!!!
@@FMC-20244 The last last experience I had of anything like this was the VW golf GTI. They would eat through the top face of lifters like they were plastic. VW went straight to defensive mode and stated the engines needed to be run on "special" oil and dealer service or they wouldn't warranty them lol. My friend is a mechanic and looked after his meticulously but was denied warranty. He rebuilt his with aftermarket buckets and never had an issue after that. I suspect it is similar with KTM, this could have gone away with a recall or even sending cams out to owners out of warranty. They should just come clean and admit if it's quality control as It goes a long way to maintaining public confidence in their products, where denial in the face of hard facts (which they have forced people to look for) will have a huge dent in their integrity. I bought the 890R knowingly with only 12mth warranty as I was spoiled with excellent service when I raced KTM way back in the 90's. The dealer was an ex works mechanic and even though it was a race bike anything not right got sorted by the shop. These days though I've no dealer confidence and as soon as my warranty was finished I avoided the dealership and did everything myself. It's gone as far as looking at replacing the ECU to be rid of any tie to a shop.
You say many KTMs have this problem but what is the actual number? I had my 2019 790 Adv serviced a couple of weeks ago at 19,000 miles, the valves were still in tolerance and the cam lobes were ok.
Then you sir are one of the lucky ones!!! Even though there is no official actual number it seems like over 50% of the 790/890 series has this problem. There is a group page that only discusses the cam issue and every day we see 5-10 new members stating that they bike have a worn cam. And the problem seems world wide, not limited to any country
Exactly. There are more stories than actual cases. Especially alot of keyboard warriors who like to be "experts". There are some, but how many? My dealer had never heard of the problem and he has sold alot. What's alot? Exactly!
Got a 2020 790 adv r, bought with 30.000 km/18.600 miles, just after the service with valve check, everything oke. Now it has 44000 km/27400 miles, still rides like a dream. Did 2 oil changes in that periode and last week a clutch plates, springs, pressure cap and oil jet change. Running as smooth as when i bought it, also clean oil, screens and filter, no metal shavings. Got the main filter oiled from twin air and the twin air pre filter, no dust is coming in, check it regular.
Anybody tried swapping out the KTM camshaft for a CFmoto one? Haven't heard CFmoto 800 owners complaining but maybe it's because the bikes are still new. But if it took only 11k miles for the camshaft problem to show up in the KTM, I guess we'll know soon enough when they get sent in for the first major service.
G’day Flows , mate I have to tell you how brilliant it is to watch your reactions to people losing their lunch over a bit of low volume back ground music , after just trying to make a good video for the same people , which you did .. first inclination is to say you’d be a great politician , but who wants to lower themselves that far .. brilliant mate , just brilliant .. it’s a lesson for us all in a angry , ranting, selfish format like TH-cam. Your higher road is as seldom used so brilliantly . Well done mate 👊
@@queenslander954 I appreciate the kind words!!! Yea bunch of people complained but I didn’t see them make a video on the matter, even less one that’s better. Sadly in these days everyone complains way to much. Hahah definitely not politician material here😁😂😂. Thanks for watching!!!
The trouble with potential major manufacturing defects is that v large numbers of customers will have no issues at all which creates an atmosphere of scepticism about complainants reinforced by manufacturers' rigorous denial that any problem ever existed. I guess ultimately we can all use the internet to conduct our own research and consequently exercise our freedom of well informed choice as to when and where we open our wallets.
Well this raises the question of how many other bikes are effected with this issue, and when has the new cylinder head been put into production of new bikes. I never really new the truth about this motor; is it designed by KTM and built by CF Moto? The motor is used by KTM and CF Moto and is used by Husqvarna as well. This is really disappointing, considering how many good reviews there has been on this motor. Definitely staying away from any bike with this motor or it's variants till there is a clean bill of health.
@@robertgagne9355 there is no official number out there on how many bikes are affected, and many owners of these bikes say they don’t have any problems, but honestly you wouldn’t know unless you take it apart and check. This bike ran 💯 and we couldn’t tell what was going on until we took the valve cover off. This bike was still build by Ktm in 2019. Word is that 2024 has upgraded head but no real info on that neither. I believe this year cf Moto started building the engines and bikes. It’s sad what’s going and all we can do it hope they fix it soon!!! Thanks for watching
A so called premium brand. Do they not do long term engine testing before releasing this crap onto the general public. Would be a great informative video without the soundtrack please.
They haven't learnt the lessons of the car industry. They have gone cheap and its not working for them. Every manufacture has to go through this for some unbeknown reason. Bring production back to Europe and sort your quality control out!! not hard??? Also lose that tech pack shit. That really pissses customers off. I've bought 6 new ktm's over the years. Really want the 1390 SMT when it comes out, but just do not want hand 20K plus over for a bike with dodgy reliability and over bearing electronics. I don't ride fast, but hate them. My super duke GT traction control put me in hospital for a week. Love my Ducati, but miss my ktm. That's the future.
Yes sadly the quality control is a big issue here, as far as the tech pack, I personally don’t care for it at all, but most of todays consumers do and that’s why they keep stuffing these bikes with electronics. What blows my mind is that ktm charges a arm and a leg for those bikes and then you have to pay extra to unlock the tech that’s already on the bike and the consumer already paid for 🤦🏻♂️
No, it's not a wheelie problem. I had to replace the camshafts on my KTM 790 Duke and I'm not very good at wheelies. My bike being a Duke also removes the "dusting" issue that KTM states is the issue/cause on the Adventure bikes. It is more likely poor surface hardening and possibly clogged oil jets.
@@muzzkeg8172 feel free to send him the link. There are a good amount of people in denial but the truth is the problem is real!!!! Thanks for watching!!!
Its not KTM 4 strokes this is supposedly an 890 issue ... Im about to go check mine but my 500exc is like a clock other than normal maintenance.. I also have suspicions the 890 cam issue is related to oil change interval.. they call for way too many miles on an oil change...
So far we know that the 790/890/ Norden 901 are all failing in the cam department. Even heard a few 690 owners reaching out. I agree that probably half of those bikes don’t the serviced as the factory recommends, yet I personally know 2 bikes that have been serviced “ by the book” at the dealer, even a touch early and still have the same issues
But you are right, I misspoke here, it’s not all the 4T but the parallel twin with the issues. I’ll clarify this in the next update video. Thanks for watching!!!
@@FMC-20244 From what i've seen in the Failed Camshaft group most owners split KTM's recommended oil service mileage into thirds. It's insane to leave an oil change for 15,000km as suggested by KTM. I'd also say a high percentage of owners do the service themselves but that shouldn't affect camshafts. Camshafts don't know who changed the oil. 😃
@@FMC-20244 My consensus use those big ktm with snow track on back and ski up front, ferocious hp from a single, I rode a ktm 125 dirt bike two stroke and it felt like it was a tricked out race bike but it was stock and so fast.
All these cam wipe outs on ktms look like oil starvation to me. The harder material wears rather than the softer material. Without oil to protect the metal to metal contact you get this
I see so many vehicles, 2 wheels and 4, that have this issue. The cam lobes furthest from the oil feed get starved. What a useless design having oil come in from one side through one channel in my opinion. All it takes is some particle build up or maybe even oil filter change without soaking the filter in oil before installation.
Interesting how this policy is different around the world. A mate here in Austria got an entire new engine on his Norden, all paid for, no questions asked... which is very telling since usually KTM is the worst brand when it comes to correcting manufacturing issues that are 100% their fault...
Hello, what country are you in? In France, I have never heard of a problem on camshafts of Ktm 790 or 890 advendure many motorcycles have high mileage and not this problem
I stick to my Japanese make, I do like the 1290R but I probably never will buy one as there are also issues with these engines and KTM does not deliver on warranty when looking at other videos
@@Compasscard I’m in the same boat, love my japs. Been looking at the 1290 tho. The v twin engines seem pretty reliable. The parallel twins is where the issue started. Thanks for watching!!!
Update I will not be taking my new 790 r on my planned adventure ride. I will be on my 690 enduro since that's my bike with butter cam lobes. Sitting at the dealer to be continued
Crazy stuff, I have a 1995 GPZ1100 in the shed I ride between the others. old GPZ has a pretty low mileage of 35k, but like néw inside, haven’t even had to adjusted valve clearance. The bike gets very well looked after, but.. it gets ridden hard when running. KTM has lost there way big time here.
I can’t say for certain, we see 23 models with the issue, the 24 are still to new. I guess by end of the year we would know if the 24 are better. Thanks for watching
Really I bought a 2023 890r Duke. I figured if this problem showed up in the 2019 790r they would have made some updates. Now I’m worried! I’m thinking I want to contact ktm before I have issues and ask will they be warranty the bike if it fails. I have bought 11 of there bikes over the years. The only problem I have had was the 08 990duke swelling compensate fuel tank. They did replace under warranty. On my 14 SDR the radiator sprung a leak and needed to be replaced. They didn’t cover that. That cost me $750. I also had the rear single sided swing arm loose hub failure. They covered that under warranty. I don’t no why this wouldn’t be a recall replacement under warranty. If this is still an issue from a 2019 790r and it wasn’t been updated in following years why hasn’t anyone sued ktm?
Really I bought a 2023 890r Duke. I figured if this problem showed up in the 2019 790r they would have made some updates. Now I’m worried! I’m thinking I want to contact ktm before I have issues and ask will they be warranty the bike if it fails. I have bought 11 of there bikes over the years. The only problem I have had was the 08 990duke swelling compensate fuel tank. They did replace under warranty. On my 14 SDR the radiator sprung a leak and needed to be replaced. They didn’t cover that. That cost me $750. I also had the rear single sided swing arm loose hub failure. They covered that under warranty. I don’t no why this wouldn’t be a recall replacement under warranty. If this is still an issue from a 2019 790r and it wasn’t been updated in following years why hasn’t anyone sued ktm?
KTM has had their share of trouble, but not on all models. Seems to be the 790/801, 690, and maybe some TBI issues on the newer off road 2t. The dirt-bikes and big advs are pretty good. I've had a 2014 350 EXCF for a long time now and it's solid, and way lighter than any Japanese dual sport offering.
@@Adv_Charlie his point was the scooter is faster because the KTM is broken and doesn't go anywhere. But to be fair, the average Chinese scooter will be a total pile that's also broken continuously.
I can’t watch a video with irritating background music.
@@chestertownelectric6290 that has been brought to my attention!!! It’s a learning process, thanks for watching!!!
Thought the same! I "endured" it, coz the content is interesting. So, please, FMC, keep it up but either without or at least with tuned down music in the background. Better without it;-).
@@anchinkan yes sir, it’s noted and if you watch the following Update video, no more music!!! Thanks for watching!!!
@@FMC-20244 Vielen Dank 😉
@@anchinkan Dankeschön!!!
The music has got to go! No music on serious topics and this issue deserves the spotlight
@@paulb_614 noted!!! No more music!!! Thanks for watching
It's not music. It's the cams rattling on another KTM in the background. Good, fair, balanced assessment of the problem by Mr Flows. It's astonishing that anyone even contemplates buying one of these machines now. And the way in which KTM has sidestepped the problem is an absolute disgrace. What a sad end to a hitherto reputable company.
@@m2menuiserie540 it’s a very sad situation, and yet we see people on the FB pages still buying them, saying it’s all just a hype, or the “deal” was to sweet to not buy it. Thanks for watching!!!
That music is almost as annoying as KTM engineering flaws .
@@robertstone4025 thanks for watching
1. The music is annoying and loud
2. Your friend was scammed, sorry
Thanks for the feedback, just started the channel and still learning a lot!! Thanks for watching
How was his mate scammed?
yep he was scammed by KTM
@@Adv_Charlie. lol .. he brought a KTM mate 😂. When will yours go ?
Thank you for sharing the issues with the 790/890 motors. My 1090 R was solid, my 890R ain’t.
Yes its a sad case!! the V twin engines seem to be good, the Parallel twins are the failing ones!!! Thanks for watching!!!
More reason not to buy china made anything
ditto here 2017 1090r 32000 tough trouble free miles
@@justsomedude445 I have 2017 ktm 1090 adventure s with 94000 Km with no problems
Should have bought the tenere smh
I agree 😂
Mine has just failed 19 k miles and after service for valve check , Ktm new the oil feed problem and chose not to recall the bikes on that year 2019 ..will not be buying a Ktm in the future , and will tell everyone I see on 790 890 to get rid of their bikes
It’s sad to see this problem to so many people, hopefully they will fix this asap
Did they offer to help goodwill parts to you? Any help at all?
I think the problem goes back as far as 2017. But I could be mistaken.
@@spartanx169x you are absolutely right
So crazy he has to go through all that work and trouble pulling proof of service just to have to pay for labor. I'd rather just try my luck at doing the top end myself.
You are absolutely right, it’s a crazy deal with this issue. If they don’t come through then we will fix it ourselves. If that happens we will make a video for sure
I changed my own cams and followers because it was cheaper than paying labor and hoping KTM gave me parts. $800 in parts. The best part is, when you have what looks like galling on the cams KTM says they are "discolored," and you should buff them off and put it back together. WTF? I will NEVER BUY A KTM PRODUCT AGAIN.
@@RatBike750 sadly we have hear the “ discoloration” story to often. Thanks for watching!!!
I don´t mind the music. Sure it is kind of annoying, but as you said, it is a learning process. I want to support smaller channels. You earned a sub and my like.
@@thomasdoe6768 thank you so much for the support!!!
I did a video on the 890 and touched on its reliability issues, I was blown away with the amount of comments concerning head internals failing at around 12,00 miles
@@rangeroadmoto sadly a wide spread issue
Take a class action out against KTM.
KTM have been selling motorcycles with cylinder-heads that are not designed with a correct oil-feed to the camshafts.
Hence, these KTM motorcycles with this type of cylinder-head are not of merchantable quality.
KTM have since superseded the original flawed cylinder-head with a newly improved design, which has to be installed along with new cam-shafts.
Pressed on lobes with a crush fit instead of making them for one piece of billet , it’s not enough that KTM charges so much for their bikes , but cut corners as well to increase profits ,top end failures for years on these bikes ,you’d think they would just do it properly by now.
They deny so many warranty’s when they know it’s entirely their own doing , total scam company.
@@queenslander954 it’s so sad to see what’s going on, they are expensive bike to begin with. Hopefully they come through. Thanks for watching
If you respect your money, stay away from european junks. These days, all the companies, hunt horsepower via tight tolerances to meet euro 5 regulations and the mechanical parts always fail. Buy japanese bikes only.
I’m a big Japanese fan myself, but I have to be honest I have a 2020 husky te250 2 stroke and that bike is working like clockwork. Never a single issue
Hardly.
The Ducati Testastretta engine (937cc L Twin) is a bomb proof design. Guys who regularly track this motor can't destroy it. Has a long, proven track record.
I put over 13k miles on my DesertX in the first year of ownership, at 15k miles now.
I have a 5 year/unlimited mileage TRANSFERABLE warranty on my Ducati. I plan on selling it in year 4, with around 50k miles on it.
Will have my local Ducati Dealer (AMS Ducati Dallas) do a full PPI and inspection report on the bike before listing it for sale.
You don't know how much a vehicle costs until you sell it. 😊
@@jamescampbell4334 I hope you reach 50k miles on it. 😉
I have a honda cbr 1100 xx blackbird with 450k kms on it. I'm the 4th owner. Same engine.
@@manosath3834 that’s the Japanese quality right there!!! 🙌
Wow that was a hard watch with the terrible music. Good info though once you try and ignore the background
@@slakk5093 thanks for watching!!!
but KTM say this is not happening must be my imagination I am watching this, thanks for adding some evidence, but as others have said the music is not helping but it is your vid.
@@bikenavbm1229 well sadly it is happening, and many bikes are victim to the issue. The music problem has been fixed in the update video 😉. Thank for watching!!!
I think the FTC, and State AG's need to get involved with this issue. If it was rare it would be one thing, but this is very common. The owner shouldn't have to pay a dime for failure in manufacturing. KTM will continue shafting customers as long as people allow them to get away with it.
@@maximusmiles8435 actually it seems like ktm is coming through for the customers on a case by case deal. They won’t recall all the bikes but they agreed to fix my buddy’s bike for free. Thanks for watching!!!
20.000 km in 12 months on my 890 smt.
Camshafts looking ok, no wear
@@Dino-l4e that’s great news!!! Hopefully it stays that way!! Thanks for watching!!!
i have a 2019 KTM 790R with 12,500 miles, did the first service with the dealer but all subsequent oil changes were done by me, if my cams are toast i hope they don't try to bullshit me. All oil changes were done at 5,000 miles or less, KTM recommends 9,800 miles, which is crazy!
@@frankgulla8782 my buddy has his bike at the dealer right now, they said they will cover the costs and fix it!! Thanks for watching!!!
Orange used to be a Great Flavor, I've owned a number of KTM's but won't buy again. This issue has simply been around far too long without resolution by the manufacturer, and support for the impacted owners is sadly lacking. I think the modern trend to extend oil change intervals is also not working in the owners favor.
@@KevinDaken absolutely agreed!!! Thanks for watching!!!
Oils have become better over the years but bikes has way too little oil and too high rpm and power and also the debris from the wet clutch. I have a Husky 701, it has 10000km oil change interval. A Husky 501 has 15 hours. They have almost the same amount of oil (very little) If i would follow the recommendations i would be at my second oil change at 185 hours, second after the initial break-in oil change. So that would be like 170 hours or so on the same oil.
@@Gud-y2s totally agree!!! Thanks for watching!!!
Is it the cams or the followers which then wear the cams like on bmw’s
@@tonyharding5336 There is still no concrete answer out there for they question. Some say the cams are soft, some say the followers are the issue. Some say it’s he oil jet. At this point we don’t have a answer, what I personally do think is that the extreme cam profile in conjunction with the follower setup is a problem. Thanks for watching
Why the stupid music? What does it add? Nothing - it detracts.
@@ProphetAndLoss no music in the next one!!! Thanks for watching!!!
KTM bikes are expensive to maintain and are not user friendly when it comes to doing work on them yourself unless you have some reasonable mechanical aptitude.I have spent plenty on my old 950 over the years with the power and performance making it difficult to let go of.The new T7 tenere looks like a cheaper more reliable option.
I agree 💯 with you!!! They are fun bikes but pricey and high maintenance. I own a t7 myself and love the bike, motor is basically bulletproof, but suspension is a bit on the weak side. Thanks for watching
KTM is going under !!!! DO NOT BUY ONE !!
@@RT-tn4ry let’s hope they turn the ship around!! Thanks for watching!!!
Cross your fingers that this problem somehow won't affect the Kove 800x....Because that thing looks pretty awesome.
Does it have the screen thimble filter in the cylinder head under camshaft bearing bridge hold down?
@@cliftonsr honestly I don’t know, the owner of the bike took it to the dealer and is waiting for it to get repaired, they said ktm will warranty parts and labor. Thanks for watching
@@FMC-20244 thanks friend, good work on your videos and keep us posted if you find out about the thimble filter screen being in the cylinder head or not because that is very important to know.
@@cliftonsrthank you!!! Absolutely will do!!!
Makes no difference newer or older head design. A guy in the uk has proved the oil pressure at the squirter isnt the cause.
The camshafts lobes are individually pressed on to the shaft, it's looking more likely that some of the lobes have not been heat treated correctly, not an issue with oiling as some early 790's are still going strong with over 20k.
@@adamhrachowina9119 thank you for that input!!! Honestly I never thought about how camshafts are made, always thought they where a one piece design. I’ll have to look closer into that. Thanks for watching!!!
@@FMC-20244
You're welcome, so much contradictory info floating around.
His investigation mirrors what a few people have been thinking.
He's sent a set of worn cams away for metallurgy testing and awaiting him putting the next vid up with findings, a UK guy, but annoyingly I can't remember his channel 😡
I also suspected the same when I looked at a set, the lobes are all individual not one piece like traditional cams so there's a potential for some errors during manufacture.
Despite some saying not enough oil was getting through the oil ways, the bearing journals don't wear. Also the squirters were in question but he debunked that.
The best I've found is a billet inlet cam, but it's for the Duke motor. Loads more mid to top power and looking at the graphs we wouldn't lose any low end, but that would remain to be seen and depend on how the cam was degree'd and the tuners attention to ign timing creating a new map.
I checked my 890 cams early at 6k and continue to do so at early intervals.
As a daily driver mine gets started at 05:30 and ridden straight off, I don't sit there like some waiting for the oil to "warm up" that's just stupid. The engine should be run normally without thrashing until at full temp.
I'll have a look for the vid later and link it for your info 👍
@@adamhrachowina9119 i absolutely agree that there is a lot of difference and controversy info around. I take my 25 years of motorcycle mechanic knowledge and what I have right in front of me. I’m not a engineer so it’s always interesting to see what the smarter people can find out!!! Thanks for the insight and yes please share a link to that video if you find it!!!
@@FMC-20244 The last last experience I had of anything like this was the VW golf GTI. They would eat through the top face of lifters like they were plastic.
VW went straight to defensive mode and stated the engines needed to be run on "special" oil and dealer service or they wouldn't warranty them lol.
My friend is a mechanic and looked after his meticulously but was denied warranty. He rebuilt his with aftermarket buckets and never had an issue after that.
I suspect it is similar with KTM, this could have gone away with a recall or even sending cams out to owners out of warranty.
They should just come clean and admit if it's quality control as It goes a long way to maintaining public confidence in their products, where denial in the face of hard facts (which they have forced people to look for) will have a huge dent in their integrity.
I bought the 890R knowingly with only 12mth warranty as I was spoiled with excellent service when I raced KTM way back in the 90's. The dealer was an ex works mechanic and even though it was a race bike anything not right got sorted by the shop.
These days though I've no dealer confidence and as soon as my warranty was finished I avoided the dealership and did everything myself. It's gone as far as looking at replacing the ECU to be rid of any tie to a shop.
just type in KTM cheese in youtube and his channel will come up
Awful crap from KTM, brake pads last longer than their cams… they did lots of work and durability tests to make sure we get a durable product!
I just laughed at that statement with the brake pads. Sad but true!!! Thanks for watching!!!
lol - it's true I replaced my camshafts at just under 70,000km, my brake pads were still good at 80,000km but I changed them anyway.
Get rid of the music, it’s irritating
@@Simon-qy7pe thanks for watching!!!
I just traded in my 790 for a Suzuki 800de.
@@8andsk835 hope you like it!!! Thanks for watching!!!
You say many KTMs have this problem but what is the actual number? I had my 2019 790 Adv serviced a couple of weeks ago at 19,000 miles, the valves were still in tolerance and the cam lobes were ok.
Then you sir are one of the lucky ones!!! Even though there is no official actual number it seems like over 50% of the 790/890 series has this problem. There is a group page that only discusses the cam issue and every day we see 5-10 new members stating that they bike have a worn cam. And the problem seems world wide, not limited to any country
@@FMC-20244 that's a bold claim of over 50%. Is there actually any evidence to back it up or is it a case of my mate said etc
@@jimcarr8425 as stated there is no actual official number, and no it’s not what a mate said, it’s weeks of research. Thanks for watching!!
Exactly. There are more stories than actual cases. Especially alot of keyboard warriors who like to be "experts". There are some, but how many? My dealer had never heard of the problem and he has sold alot. What's alot? Exactly!
Got a 2020 790 adv r, bought with 30.000 km/18.600 miles, just after the service with valve check, everything oke. Now it has 44000 km/27400 miles, still rides like a dream. Did 2 oil changes in that periode and last week a clutch plates, springs, pressure cap and oil jet change. Running as smooth as when i bought it, also clean oil, screens and filter, no metal shavings. Got the main filter oiled from twin air and the twin air pre filter, no dust is coming in, check it regular.
I’ve never heard of the issue being with the head and oiling. Always heard it was just cams not being hard enough. I’ll have to look into it
@@shortbusdog seems like multiple factors involved here!! Thanks for watching!!!
So far I've only seen it on the LH intake cam lobes. Maybe an oil distribution issue?
That’s great he might get it back in a year or so.
@@donkimes2135 sadly you not wrong, thanks for watching!!!
Anybody tried swapping out the KTM camshaft for a CFmoto one?
Haven't heard CFmoto 800 owners complaining but maybe it's because the bikes are still new. But if it took only 11k miles for the camshaft problem to show up in the KTM, I guess we'll know soon enough when they get sent in for the first major service.
There are complaints that the CFmotos are having the same issue.
G’day Flows , mate I have to tell you how brilliant it is to watch your reactions to people losing their lunch over a bit of low volume back ground music ,
after just trying to make a good video for the same people , which you did ..
first inclination is to say you’d be a great politician , but who wants to lower themselves that far ..
brilliant mate , just brilliant .. it’s a lesson for us all in a angry , ranting, selfish format like TH-cam.
Your higher road is as seldom used so brilliantly . Well done mate 👊
@@queenslander954 I appreciate the kind words!!! Yea bunch of people complained but I didn’t see them make a video on the matter, even less one that’s better. Sadly in these days everyone complains way to much. Hahah definitely not politician material here😁😂😂. Thanks for watching!!!
Great video. I have 25K miles on my 2021 KTM 890 Adventure. Either I am lucky or don't redline my bike enough. I hope you're listening KTM.
@@greatfallskam glad to hear you got a good one!!! Enjoy it!!! Thanks for watching!!!
CF- MOTO engine?
@@sgomez3047 no, still made in Austria 🇦🇹. The CF moto are supposed to be pretty solid!! Thanks for watching!!!
The trouble with potential major manufacturing defects is that v large numbers of customers will have no issues at all which creates an atmosphere of scepticism about complainants reinforced by manufacturers' rigorous denial that any problem ever existed. I guess ultimately we can all use the internet to conduct our own research and consequently exercise our freedom of well informed choice as to when and where we open our wallets.
@@keyboarddancers7751 you have a point here!!! Thanks for watching!!!
Just changing the camshaft like you would casually change a spark plug, is,.. insane!
@@TammyDenseDdank5658 absolutely agree!! This is nuts. Thanks for watching
Well this raises the question of how many other bikes are effected with this issue, and when has the new cylinder head been put into production of new bikes. I never really new the truth about this motor; is it designed by KTM and built by CF Moto? The motor is used by KTM and CF Moto and is used by Husqvarna as well. This is really disappointing, considering how many good reviews there has been on this motor. Definitely staying away from any bike with this motor or it's variants till there is a clean bill of health.
@@robertgagne9355 there is no official number out there on how many bikes are affected, and many owners of these bikes say they don’t have any problems, but honestly you wouldn’t know unless you take it apart and check. This bike ran 💯 and we couldn’t tell what was going on until we took the valve cover off. This bike was still build by Ktm in 2019. Word is that 2024 has upgraded head but no real info on that neither. I believe this year cf Moto started building the engines and bikes. It’s sad what’s going and all we can do it hope they fix it soon!!! Thanks for watching
A so called premium brand. Do they not do long term engine testing before releasing this crap onto the general public. Would be a great informative video without the soundtrack please.
@@Jones-xx2gc thank you!! Yes the music has been pointed out by several people and I fixed that in the second video!!! Thanks for watching!!
They haven't learnt the lessons of the car industry. They have gone cheap and its not working for them. Every manufacture has to go through this for some unbeknown reason. Bring production back to Europe and sort your quality control out!! not hard??? Also lose that tech pack shit. That really pissses customers off. I've bought 6 new ktm's over the years. Really want the 1390 SMT when it comes out, but just do not want hand 20K plus over for a bike with dodgy reliability and over bearing electronics. I don't ride fast, but hate them. My super duke GT traction control put me in hospital for a week. Love my Ducati, but miss my ktm. That's the future.
Yes sadly the quality control is a big issue here, as far as the tech pack, I personally don’t care for it at all, but most of todays consumers do and that’s why they keep stuffing these bikes with electronics. What blows my mind is that ktm charges a arm and a leg for those bikes and then you have to pay extra to unlock the tech that’s already on the bike and the consumer already paid for 🤦🏻♂️
Could it be a wheely problem?
Like the sv 650 .
Wheely that and you're front cilinder gets no oil so you're 650 ends up as a 325
I doubt it, way to many bikes with those issues. But still a interesting thought!!! Thanks for watching
No, it's not a wheelie problem. I had to replace the camshafts on my KTM 790 Duke and I'm not very good at wheelies.
My bike being a Duke also removes the "dusting" issue that KTM states is the issue/cause on the Adventure bikes. It is more likely poor surface hardening and possibly clogged oil jets.
My friend is a REALLY calm rider and he had to replace his camshaft at less than 20000km.
@@iamandreja sorry for your friend. This is such a let down on a very loved bike
OMG, another 790 with chocolate cams. Quality engines made in China.
@@cpuuk sadly this is a 2019 so it was still made in Switzerland. But yes it sucks. Update coming soon. Thanks for watching!!!
Can you send a link to The Bingley Wheeler? He is in complete denial about this issue
@@muzzkeg8172 feel free to send him the link. There are a good amount of people in denial but the truth is the problem is real!!!! Thanks for watching!!!
Its not KTM 4 strokes this is supposedly an 890 issue ... Im about to go check mine but my 500exc is like a clock other than normal maintenance.. I also have suspicions the 890 cam issue is related to oil change interval.. they call for way too many miles on an oil change...
So far we know that the 790/890/ Norden 901 are all failing in the cam department. Even heard a few 690 owners reaching out. I agree that probably half of those bikes don’t the serviced as the factory recommends, yet I personally know 2 bikes that have been serviced “ by the book” at the dealer, even a touch early and still have the same issues
But you are right, I misspoke here, it’s not all the 4T but the parallel twin with the issues. I’ll clarify this in the next update video. Thanks for watching!!!
@@FMC-20244 I just checked my 22 890 at I think 19,000mi cams look fine.. And now I know where my coolant is going time for a water pump seal..
@@imridingwithstoopidohwaiti3948 glad to hear your cam is good. Did the coolant mix with the oil?
@@FMC-20244 From what i've seen in the Failed Camshaft group most owners split KTM's recommended oil service mileage into thirds. It's insane to leave an oil change for 15,000km as suggested by KTM. I'd also say a high percentage of owners do the service themselves but that shouldn't affect camshafts. Camshafts don't know who changed the oil. 😃
Amateur night at KTM. Motorcycles are Japanese guys.
@@rafaellastracom6411 thanks for watching!!!
I would be fuming if my motor went to crap with that milage what were they thinking?
@@paulscountry456 yes it’s very upsetting. But a update on the situation is coming soon on a follow up video
@@FMC-20244 My consensus use those big ktm with snow track on back and ski up front, ferocious hp from a single, I rode a ktm 125 dirt bike two stroke and it felt like it was a tricked out race bike but it was stock and so fast.
All these cam wipe outs on ktms look like oil starvation to me. The harder material wears rather than the softer material. Without oil to protect the metal to metal contact you get this
That’s what many say, they have little oil jets and they get blocked with any little bit of debris in the oil.
Chinese steel, bad stuff.
I see so many vehicles, 2 wheels and 4, that have this issue. The cam lobes furthest from the oil feed get starved. What a useless design having oil come in from one side through one channel in my opinion. All it takes is some particle build up or maybe even oil filter change without soaking the filter in oil before installation.
Definitely a design flaw here!! Thanks for watching!!!
It's been shown not to be the lobes farthest from the oil feed in some cases.
Being more and more exposed fir there dodgy manufactured parts , r and on reliability
Yes, it’s sad!! Those are expensive motorcycles to begin with
Interesting how this policy is different around the world. A mate here in Austria got an entire new engine on his Norden, all paid for, no questions asked... which is very telling since usually KTM is the worst brand when it comes to correcting manufacturing issues that are 100% their fault...
Hello, what country are you in? In France, I have never heard of a problem on camshafts of Ktm 790 or 890 advendure many motorcycles have high mileage and not this problem
@@alain2274 hey we are in the USA, so far it’s recorded that USA, UK and Australia have the most bikes with recorded issues. Thanks for watching
@@FMC-20244 Thank you.
What oil do you usually use , in France 10/50 sea.
.
@@alain2274 not exactly sure, it’s not my bike. It’s a friend bike. But all the services have been done by ktm dealer
Thanks for the video and Prawno Music
@@thefika thanks for watching!!!
That's very impressive. Music was good too. 🤦♂
Just started and still
Learning, thanks for watching
@@FMC-20244 Appreciate your efforts. Thanks for trying. Hope it gets easier with time
@@yk10yk I’m sure it will, like everything it’s a learning process!!!
If you don't have any input on the 790 or cam or failure why comment. 😅 trolling I guess since you have 6 subscribers in 6 years lol
@@outdoorkreations7051 I apologise sir. Never again. Glad my profile put a smile on your face. Can I leave now?
I stick to my Japanese make, I do like the 1290R but I probably never will buy one as there are also issues with these engines and KTM does not deliver on warranty when looking at other videos
@@Compasscard I’m in the same boat, love my japs. Been looking at the 1290 tho. The v twin engines seem pretty reliable. The parallel twins is where the issue started. Thanks for watching!!!
@@FMC-20244I have a 1290 SAS. Awesome bike 👍
@@AndersPetersson79 I can imagine!!! Thanks for watching!!!
There is a guy on youtube with a kawasaki z900 that reached 60.000 miles (100.000km) 😂
@@Snotroggel453 that’s nothing out of common, I used to own a 1982 cb900c that had 89,000 miles when I sold it!! Thanks for watching!!!
Buy Yamaha 🤣
@@evalds1983 😂😉
Update I will not be taking my new 790 r on my planned adventure ride. I will be on my 690 enduro since that's my bike with butter cam lobes. Sitting at the dealer to be continued
Someone here on the comments has a 22 701 with 4k miles in with the same problem
@@FMC-20244 that's crazy they might be having those cams made in Wonka chocolate factory
Crazy stuff, I have a 1995 GPZ1100 in the shed I ride between the others. old GPZ has a pretty low mileage of 35k, but like néw inside, haven’t even had to adjusted valve clearance.
The bike gets very well looked after, but.. it gets ridden hard when running.
KTM has lost there way big time here.
@@benlondon8467 Gpz are great bikes!! I owned several KZs and they are basically bulletproof. Thanks for watching
@@FMC-20244 yeah they are a beautiful old bike, easy to get more grunt out of them too 😉
Remove the music
@@nzseagull noted. No more music. Thanks for watching!!!
Do you know if this issue got resolved within the newer models?
I can’t say for certain, we see 23 models with the issue, the 24 are still to new. I guess by end of the year we would know if the 24 are better. Thanks for watching
Really I bought a 2023 890r Duke. I figured if this problem showed up in the 2019 790r they would have made some updates. Now I’m worried! I’m thinking I want to contact ktm before I have issues and ask will they be warranty the bike if it fails.
I have bought 11 of there bikes over the years. The only problem I have had was the 08 990duke swelling compensate fuel tank. They did replace under warranty. On my 14 SDR the radiator sprung a leak and needed to be replaced. They didn’t cover that. That cost me $750. I also had the rear single sided swing arm loose hub failure. They covered that under warranty.
I don’t no why this wouldn’t be a recall replacement under warranty. If this is still an issue from a 2019 790r and it wasn’t been updated in following years why hasn’t anyone sued ktm?
Really I bought a 2023 890r Duke. I figured if this problem showed up in the 2019 790r they would have made some updates. Now I’m worried! I’m thinking I want to contact ktm before I have issues and ask will they be warranty the bike if it fails.
I have bought 11 of there bikes over the years. The only problem I have had was the 08 990duke swelling compensate fuel tank. They did replace under warranty. On my 14 SDR the radiator sprung a leak and needed to be replaced. They didn’t cover that. That cost me $750. I also had the rear single sided swing arm loose hub failure. They covered that under warranty.
I don’t no why this wouldn’t be a recall replacement under warranty. If this is still an issue from a 2019 790r and it wasn’t been updated in following years why hasn’t anyone sued ktm?
@@RobertKehl It is definitely less frequent on the Dukes, but there are cases reported.
What trash, utter trash. 11k? Pure junk
Love your intro Flo!😂😅
😂😂😂 stay tuned, more to come
Looks like a metallurgy problem.
Yes I agree, let see if ktm comes through!!! Thanks for watching
@@FMC-20244 I will take Japanese steel over Chinese steel any day.
@@TXLorenzo I prefer Japanese bikes in general!!!
690 has same problem
Wow really? Haven’t heard that yet.
@@FMC-20244 yeah well I got the husqie and it has worn cam coating as well.
@@VirtueelGamingNL 701? How many miles?
@@FMC-20244 4-5k miles cams have pitting and are blue. Finger followers look worn but can't really see them will replace the end of the season
@@VirtueelGamingNL wow that’s insane. Sorry to hear that!!! Seems like ktm cam issues are a big issue now. What year is your bike?
KTMs are either new or close to scrap value. Nothing in between. The moment you realize, that every chinese 125cc scooter is faster and more reliable.
Sadly there are a few motorcycles brands and styles that automatically loose 25% the moment they roll out the dealership
KTM has had their share of trouble, but not on all models.
Seems to be the 790/801, 690, and maybe some TBI issues on the newer off road 2t.
The dirt-bikes and big advs are pretty good.
I've had a 2014 350 EXCF for a long time now and it's solid, and way lighter than any Japanese dual sport offering.
“Every Chinese 125cc scooter is faster” ? I’d like to see one beat a 1290 or even my 790
@@Adv_Charlie his point was the scooter is faster because the KTM is broken and doesn't go anywhere. But to be fair, the average Chinese scooter will be a total pile that's also broken continuously.
Shitheap
@@danstevens2204 thanks for watching!!!