Interesting video, thanks for sharing this! Now an ex-KTM owner I have to say, having had two KTMs (2019 1290SAS and 2023 890 Adventure) I chose not to listen to all the noise. 55.000km on the 1290, the engine was checked and no wear found. The 2023 890 Adventure was also problem free. But practicality had me for indefinite time go back to BMW and a 1250GS. One day I might switch back, time will tell. Cheers :)
@@MotoVibes For those who care to, just searching on my username should (with a couple of click) wind up quite a few posts about my experiences with KTM . I try to act as a counterweight to all the negatives. Simply because I think a lot comes down to how you treat your bike. Regardless of make :)
@@BraapBanana_ I did in excess of 25.000 kilometers and had two services. The bike was traded in before the big service. Plenty of info on my website about the (a little over) one year ownership :)
A friend of mine has a 2021 890 Duke R, opened the valve cover and inspected the cams at 8.7k kms and the lobes already showed some minor scuffing. The valve lash was within spec and not too tight. This kinda disproves his theory of too little valve lash.
There are a few others on the Failed camshafts FB page who also had the camshaft issue and their clearances were not too tight. Having said this...I own also an 1190 ADV R...on first valve clearance check....intake clearances were in negative numbers....Luckily no damage noticed. But have been told by many that KTM is known to have tight clearances from the factory. They need to change this.
Great video! I own a 901 Expedition since October 23 and I give a 💩 on the stuff postet on the internet! 😂 If it hits me, it hits me. You can be unlucky with any bike. If it’s a GS, CRF1100 or a KTM ADV! I love the Husky and it’s a lot of fun. Today I throw it on my first ever TET ride. Netherlands section 5. No crash bars, no nothing. Just standard out of the factory. Ok… 50mm bar risers because I’m 209cm tall. The only thing I need now are some new mirrors because I sacrificed the left one to the “TET-God”. 😂
Good info on 790/890 DUKE camshaft failure. The first valve clearance check is at 30 000 km/ ~18 500 miles per the service manual. People are having issues way earlier mileages than that. I heard that lots of manufacturing debris is left in the early 790 cylinder head that can also cause oil squirter clog. Now KTM shows some responsibility for the failed camshaft with goodwill replacement. ✌🏻
@@Mr.Bearded.Mechanic thank you very much - I saw the recent press release from KTM. I am also glad to see that the social media posts have not fallen on deaf ears
Great episode. I posted your video on the ADV thread for 790 / 890 Cam Loge Wear. Your video perhaps provides some clues why some bikes have the camshaft ( cam lobe ) wear issue and many others are just fine. Keep this engine shop coming. Cheers.
@@greatfallskam thank you very much 😉 it’s definitely an interesting perspective but of course I still don’t know how common the issues are they we get to see. They are definitely there but maybe the valve clearance check can help
That was an informative video, thanks for that!! There are a lot of compliants on the KTMs camshaft wear out issue, atleast not all the vehicles like the expert mentioned, but all the issues reported had to do something with the camshaft. This mostly probably has to do something with the oil distribution, the varying temperatures inside a cylinder block might give rise to this issue. But with limited engine construction space and weight limitations, its a challenge for the KTM engineers to solve.
@@arunbenny6540 I hope they have addressed any potential issues in their next iteration of the 990 engine- I can’t imagine that KTM is not aware of this issue
Klasse Video... Danke das du auch mal bissl Wind,um die Camshaft Geschichten rausgenommen hast... Bei der 1300er BMW gibt's die nächsten Rückrufe, da das Problem rund um das Starterrelais wieder da ist und immernoch nicht aus der Welt ist... Da wird auch keine Welle gemacht... BMW kommt seinen Verpflichtungen nach und gut ist das... Schönen Sonntag und Cheers🫡👍🏻
Besten Dank 😉Die 1300 GS hat ja allerhand an Kinderkrankheiten aber BMW scheint da wirklich hinterher zu sein die Probleme schnellstmöglich aus dem Weg zu räumen. Das mit den KTM Nockenwellen ist sicherlich ein Thema für einige aber es ist echt schwer abzuleiten ob das nun wenige oder viele sind gemessen an den verkauften Maschinen. Die Zurückhaltung in der Sache von KTM hilft dem ganzen natürlich nicht. KTM baut so gute Motorräder aber der Service hat wohl schon einige Kunden verprellt, wenn man so durch die Kommentare schaut.
Thanks for another interesting and informative video. It’s great to see you riding in amazing places on a KTM of course but these sorts of videos are appreciated too. The more people discuss issues and solutions and see disassembled bikes and engines, the more they’ll understand their machine and how to care for it. I don’t think it’s just me who’s learning 🙂
@@MotoVibes it's just gone over 30,000 miles or 48,000 km. It's been pretty reliable to be honest. Race on switch got replaced in the first week due to water ingress. Apart from that and the failed cam chain tensioner it's been good.
Thanks for another one video very interesting for all of us 👍 I was speaking with 1 dealer in Austria, and he said that ktm is actually building motorcycles (i m referring to 1290) to make 100 000kms
It's not a very high goal...Plenty of Yamahas's Honda's and Suzuki's go far more than 100000. A lot easily to 200000.. A few 300000. A Honda CBF 600 or a NTV 600 you think about the distribution chain at more than 160000 km. On a air oil ccoled Suzuki GSXR 1100, althought the 140 HP and many 1000 km on the autobahn at high speed, the camshaft chain began a little noise at 120000 km. It was changed, the engine had all its compressions, camshafts like knew. It has now 200000 km. I know a VFR 750 with almost 300000 km going well, all its compressions and not burning oil.
Good video. I do all my own servicing but I change oil every 5000k as I think 12000 is far too long and may help in causing wear. I would be interested to know how often the oil was changed in this KTM? Great video.
@@MotoVibes would you think 10k is s too long for such an engine. I do mine every 5000 and at 40.000k without even the slightest hint of trouble. It always seems that on the 1290 engine these problems arise when oil changes go to 10.000 and over. Be interested to know what you think. Cheers
@@biker_dan I am not an expert on this but typically oil degradation does depend on how you ride. Harder “race” like riding or off-road riding would benefit from earlier than recommended oil changes. I think 10k kilometers as an average for is rental fleet is pretty good (KTM recommends 15k kilometers)
It's simply bad metallurgy. The cams are not correctly treated. Camshaft problems is a very old issue on KTMs, on the monos that was an insufficient oil pump, on a lot of others it's simply being cheap, the camshafts don't have a good enough treatment. Honda had that on the 1984 750 VF and corrected it in a short time. Now a VFR can have 250000 km with impeccable camshafts. Kawasaki had that on a series of 500 and 1000 in the 90's, that was corrected within a year. KTM has a long tradition of not correcting issues and mistreating customers.
KTM has several major problems. 1. Loads of power so highly stressed engines. 2. Many components come from China CF. 3. Awful dealer network, mainly former 2 stroke off road dealers. 4. Quality control awful. Result? Horrible reliability.
most bikes are mad in china., it's just how much profit company's want so Quality department is the first one to go. Hence why CFmoto can sell bikes so cheap
It was an interesting point but I do not know what the actual issue was on those bikes affected and how high the percentage was compared to the number of bikes sold. It is defintely an issue that KTM recently repsonded to publicly.
I agree. It's a problem of quality, specially the metal treatments for hardening the surface of the camshafts. It's a recurrent issue on the KTM since a very long time.
I just had to do a rebuild on my 2015 KTM 1290 SA after 115000km. The main shaft to the sprocket got damaged when the sprocket came loose. Some interesting things found inside the engine. 2 of the 3 oil pumps was damaged and it would only have been a matter of time before it would have seized up. The culpret of the damage.... the 6th gear was worn out and about to break bits off the teeth. Another interesting find was the stator coil that was burned and on tye way out. The pistons and sleeves was still within specs so we only did new rings and a full bearing and seals kit. The head was also sent to engineering works for a freshup. Have done another 4000km since the rebuild and it runs perfect now.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience- especially interesting with the mileage that you had. Well I hope you get to ride another 100k km with it 😉
@@gorgeousgeorge187 I was also thinking of doing it myself but there is a bunch of special tools I did not have. The repairs was around $2000 at my local KTM dealer. And I do get a 12 month warrantee from KTM on the work. So I guess it was worth it.
@@MotoVibes my 2020 AT 1100 has also reached over 100k kilometers however so far i do not foresee any engine rebuild coming up ever, the beast still runs like the first day off the dealer, never had any major problems with it, only issue i had was with seized up exhaust can valve which has been entirely pulled out since last year. Get a Japanese bike folks and ride them problem free into the hundreds of thousands km/miles.
Does anyone know where the 1290 engine is made? I have a 790 Duke and an RC390 and would love to buy more KTMs but i cannot as they are more and more reliant on CF Moto. Not interested in sending my money to China for several reasons, and not only quality concerns.
Agreed, I would love a 790 adventure but I can't stand to send my money to an adversarial and possibly terrorist country who would rather see me dead just to save myself a few bucks. These may not be your reasons but they are mine.
Most of the engines are made in china.not just for ktm.there are engine assembled in other countries,but many castings are from china also wheels, frames,etc.not just ktm.since 2010 or thereabouts
They do contract work for KTM , so of course they are not going to say the 790/ 890 camshafts are made from an inferior too-soft metal that has a low CARBON content. Independant metallurgy testing has been proven the melal in the camshafts to be too soft regarding the rockwell hardness standards specification.
@@islanddreaming8591 it’s a possibility but I did not get the impression that he was just telling us story. I don’t have the expert knowledge myself I was just interested in hearing from someone that works on KTM engines all the time
The 790/890 cam issues highlights where KTM don’t give good warranty cover, and so they get bad reputation with their customers and potential future customers. If only they looked after their customers better, this would give more confidence, even with the known issues.
@@windinthewillows6248 I absolutely agree. Having a problem with something isn’t the end of the day but we the pain drags on with slow or poor customer service this can deter future customers.
Hi! The TH-cam transcript was set to German and it is not possible to use TH-cam translator because the source is in German, not English, detect with errors the transcript to another language. Could you please set the source language to English (not German) for the subtitles? This way non-English speaking users will be able to change the transcript from English to another language. Thanks!
Nice video and definitely a pro setup but it could be nice if KTM would tell about the weak point for their engine, the oil pump or whatever because the rumours affects the value of bikes without warranty. I can do any kind of repair on my BMW myself so Personally I would not dare to buy a KTM and risk months without my bike. In general the dealerships moves bikes while they lack technical knowledge.
@@bjrnhjjakobsen2174 thank you very much Peter s was telling us that the 1290 engine is very reliable but sometimes parts can brake. Also with lots of mileage there is wear on the parts. In this case we think that the oil pump was damage early in the life of the engine because some one at the KTM service overfilled the bike with engine oil. If that was indeed the reason no one knows but the oil pump was definitely damaged
Great vid! I love content like this and there is so much conjecture going around. Thanks for asking about the 790/890 engines...I have a 790 Duke and Norden 901. Yet to pull the valve cover off the Duke yet and it's a 2018 model :)
Thank you very much. I was curious about the 790/890 issues and maybe the valve clearance is something to take a closer look at but of course it’s a big deal to open the engine before the 30k km service - but hey maybe someone will do it and prevent damage to the camshaft 😉
The KTM twins in line engines surely are made in China. Some say the complete bikes in China. Probably all the components are made in China and assembled in Austria for a problem de custom taxes and grants from Europe and Austria. Plenty of components of the HTM, Husqvarna and other satellites of KTM are made in China. The 390 is 110% indian by Bajaj which owns 49% of KTM since 2007. No Austrian has been harmed making the 390. In fact if you want to be sure to not buy any Chinese component in a motorcycle, the best is to stop buying new bikes, and buy only used bikes made before 2000 to be absolutely sure for any Japanese brand. The European brands began a bit later including Triumph which closed their British facilities to assemble bikes in Thailand with plenty of Chinese components. Except a few engineers no British worker is earning a pound from Triumph. The 400 is made 110% by Bajaj which probably will buy Ducati from Audi. Honda has joint ventures with Chinese companies since 2000 like Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki. BMW has had the F650 engine and all the parallel twins made in China since ages by Loncin which makes also components of the flat twins. Loncin makes also engines for Kawasaki and uses the KLX 300 engine fot its Voge 300 Rally and plenty of pieces for several brands. Even Ducati (owned by Audi) uses plenty of Chinese components, and Moto Guzzi is using gear boxes made in China. I don't talk about electronics, as 95% of the electronics on bikes are made in China.The Bosch injections are made in China. That's global capitalism. Probably you're reading this post on a computer or a smartphone Chinese or plenty of Chinese components.
@@MotoVibes It's useless and with KTM you may loose the guarantee, except the valve clearance. Better make an analysis of the oil that will tell more than a visual inspection. The marks on the cams are visible only when the hard surface is worn, before you won't see anything except if you can measure by 1/1000 of mm, but the oil analysis will tell you if there is steel in the oil. it's the method used in aviation.
The biggest problem of KTM is their „OEM” oil. I have 1290 2021 30k kms running only on shell advance ultra 15w50 and don’t have any even smallest scratches on cams. Only one shim was corrected at valve clearance check. Also I do not more than 8k kms on oil, always warming up especially after few days of staying.
@@MotoVibes 6-8k and proper oil filter clean because a lot of dealers are NOT cleaning them propertly, they aren’t cleaning those magnets inside, after that they clog everything and camshafts aren’t lubed correctly. I’ve found that KTM has changed those filters to newer one. Actually it’s bad servicing and bad things happen
@@jerronimo6874 You are supposed to change your filter every time you change oil and change your oil every 5000 miles/8000km, on any bike for that reason, it is cheap, it will cost you like 50 euro with oil and filter together and give you peace of mind, do it yourself.
@@jerronimo6874 That's good, you're not supposed to clean oil filters, you replace them cause they are cheap. And if OEM ones are not cheap then buy aftermarket ones, same quality, often much cheaper.
I'm anoyed that KTM would not let me buy an extended warranty, in Germany where I bought the bike, or in Latvia where I live. I bought a 890 knowing about the potential problems because I so enjoyed the 950A that I owned for twenty years and covered over 225,000 kms on. I looked after the engine because I don't trust any company to do this.
That is a shame - warranty seems to be very different from country to country. In Germany we get the min. 2 years warranty - in the USA it is only one year. But then again if you are skilled enough to do your own maintenance then over time this likely the best and cheapest way to go. If you go with the manufacturer warranty you need to let them do all the services otherwise you risk that they will not honor the warranty anymore.
@@MotoVibes In the English language promotional brochure, it stated that extended warranty could be purchased and extended each year until the bike was a certain age or had covered a certain number of kms, but in actual fact I was unable to to buy it. I do agree that it probably works out cheaper (and better) to carry out the service, maintenance and repair work yourself, but to purchase a new cylinder head would be crazy money, and to spend that on a potentially unreliable bike! I've already had to replace the suspension because the OE WP/KTM units are absolute rubbish, because when KTM bought the company, the specialists were left behind in the Netherlands. It's law to provide two years warranty in Europe. In the US, it suits KTM to call the R model a competition machine, and hence reduce the warranty term.
what is he talking about? tight valve clearance wiping the oil away? so how come the lobe pushing the valve for half of a turn is not wiping the oil off the lobe? a tight clearance would first cause the cylinder to misfire.
@@fs5866 it does not work that way. the lobe is constantly wet in oil. even if it's in constant contact with the lifter it'll transfer an oil film underneath. besides, if that was the culprit why only the lobe would get eaten away and not the lifter? not to mention, you'd much faster lose the compression from no valve clearance than had the lobe worn down. it's a simple case of failed hardening process by the looks of it.
@@MotoVibesThe guy actually stated the crankshaft bearings were very close to their minimum acceptable size! That is far from normal after 60.000 km and seems to point to lubrication and/or cooling and/or material quality issues. But perhaps that’s normal for a KTM? Also: keep in mind this company gets quite a bit of work from KTM so I’m not convinced they are completely honest in their public statements on KTM quality issues. Also: if the 790/890 camshaft problems are linked to overly tight valve clearance then why did KTM recently redesign the LC8c engine rocker arms and oil strainer? It all sounds very fishy to me and then there is of course the terrible way in which KTM has been handling this treating its customers (and dealers) like 💩.
Very interesting. Does it mean that valve clearance is set manually, engine by engine (he calls it setting up), during manufacturing? I’d have thought it would all be identically the same shims for all.
@@cpuuk thanks I didn’t know. So there’s actually a man who goes with a feeler gauge and puts the right shims in? Or perhaps checks if any is out of spec after “standard” shims are in and adjusts tolerance? Of course this can be highly error prone.
I can imagine if this shit was with a GS.. Rebuilding a engine at 60000Km, really??? Some guys I Know make 50000km a year on GS, (I do 20k to 30K) so a bit more and they need to replace a engine every year. These machines are not build to last, just for race, and they are good doing it, but 99.99% are not racers.
If you try to ride a GS like a KTM they break pretty quickly. Had a buddy who tried to ride a BMW HP2 with us who had KTM 950. He gave up after a few clutches and final drives and bought a KTM. Oh, and the air intake on that bike was low on the side of the bike pointed forward as i recall it. When he went through a puddle, the puddle went into the air filter. And then the rear air shock without rebound dampening, lethal. Had to be replaced with an Öhlins. He basically ended up paying the bike twice trying to sort everything. Amazing. But sure, if you just putting a bike on cruise control and start ticking the miles, that's a different story.
@@user-do1sr9wg1wSorry, but your point is a bit ridiculous to justify that a engine is gone at 60k. Riding a BMW like a KTM ??? What that really means??? I think you don't know the same riders as me. I know a big bunch of them riding aggressively, If is that what you mean riding a KTM (even if the vast majority of KTM users, don't ride like that) and none of them has a engine gone at 60k, none. It's funny the arguments we use to justify our choices.
@@nunosantos8784 it means nothing lol, the riders for a big ktm and a big bmw are the same, guy talks out of his a hole.Both of these big bikes are used by old farts with money to tour on nicely smooth roads 2 or 3 months a year.
@@fs5866 are you sure about that? Not in my world. Regarding the KTM, not reliable enough in the past 20 years, at least, to gain the confidence of the real travelers, that's why I never saw 1 single KTM around in the counties I rode, Africa, and South America. Regarding BMW, you have 2 different kinds, one is the ones you referred, but the second group is on the other side of the scope, the ones who put thousands of km in their bikes.. and no, they are not old nor fat, they are people across different ages, since 20 till 80s. Paying 20 or 30k for a bike, of course is a lot, but why paying that amount of money for a car is not? With 50k to spend in vehicles, I much prefer spending 30k in a bike and 20k in a car, and is more than enough. Is a matter of options and how much value you put in something that you really want.
music.th-cam.com/video/EO82piFrBRg/w-d-xo.html&feature=shared Go to 1 minute 52 seconds and listen again. That’s the outro to this video. There may be other mixes but that’s the familiar part.
@@aarsenalfan the cams issue is a 790/890 problem not a 1290 problem. There are plenty of 790/890 with no problems but there are a few that have problems with camshaft and they are dealing with KTMs service which is not always the most accommodating for customers I rode a 890 adventure off-road earlier this year and was absolutely blown away by how well it rides - they are thrilling bikes
Vahrahannes hat schon Heute 758.235km auf seinem Moped, Honda Varadero XL1000, bin gespannt ob ein 790/890er Motor 1/10 davon erreicht, von meinem Sohn hat sich nach ca. 14tkm verabschiedet, Motorschaden. Ansonsten gute Motorräder 🙂
@@MotoVibes die Nocken fast rund geworden und und ich glaube zwei oder drei Hebeln gebrochen, Gott sei Dank Garantiefall, ansonsten im KTM Forum genug Bilder davon, 790/890er Probleme. Das ist nur ein Bruchteil was kaputt war 🙂deswegen nie wieder
Echt ein sehr interessantes Video, gerade auch was die 890er Motoren betrifft 👍 Meine 1290s adv von 2018 hat jetzt 76k auf der Uhr und sie hat mich diesmal in Zagreb im Stich gelassen, ein Jahr Planung und Vorfreude voll fürn Arsch, ich könnte kotzen! Ich überlege ernsthaft auf einen Japaner umzusteigen weil zuverlässig auf größeren Reisen einfach das wichtigste ist! Ich hätte sie einfach vor ihren 50k in Zahlung geben sollen. Aber alle 3 Jahre ein neues Motorrad geht auch gut ins Geld 😢
@@pierreschmale vielen Dank 😉 tut mir leid mit deinem Motorrad und vor allem für den Abbruch der Reise. Das ist echt ärgerlich. Weisst du was das Problem war?
I would never consider buying a KTM now. Maybe in 10 years I’ll look at them again in case they have learnt to build a reliable bike by then, but with an abundance of caution.
They're spending a lot of money on that engine! It's not cleaver to spend other people's money just to protect your own reputation. If you are a specialist, you should know that those pistons are still good. They have a small amount of wear on the Teflon coating. It's nothing.
Stephan actually bought all the parts himself - not Peter. Stephan followed his recommendations but he did not have to. If was worth it to him as the bike itself is in prestine condition and now looks like new after the engine rebuild and major service.
The fact that the main guy there wears a Ducati T-shirt says it all 🤣🤣🤣🤣 WTF KTM makes nice bikes But !!! They are unreliable and The residential value is shit !!!!
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.6 (2/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GgeGQOP10RQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Interesting video, thanks for sharing this! Now an ex-KTM owner I have to say, having had two KTMs (2019 1290SAS and 2023 890 Adventure) I chose not to listen to all the noise. 55.000km on the 1290, the engine was checked and no wear found. The 2023 890 Adventure was also problem free. But practicality had me for indefinite time go back to BMW and a 1250GS. One day I might switch back, time will tell. Cheers :)
@@KMeyn thank you very much and thank you for sharing your experience with both of your KTMs 😉
@@MotoVibes For those who care to, just searching on my username should (with a couple of click) wind up quite a few posts about my experiences with KTM . I try to act as a counterweight to all the negatives. Simply because I think a lot comes down to how you treat your bike. Regardless of make :)
How many kms have you got on the 890? Have you had the valve check yet?
@@BraapBanana_ I did in excess of 25.000 kilometers and had two services. The bike was traded in before the big service. Plenty of info on my website about the (a little over) one year ownership :)
It is so nice to see and hear proper experts!!! In North America there is no motorcycle or automotive shops at this level of expertise!
@@alexstan5358 glad to here that you found this interesting- it sure was for me 😉
A friend of mine has a 2021 890 Duke R, opened the valve cover and inspected the cams at 8.7k kms and the lobes already showed some minor scuffing. The valve lash was within spec and not too tight. This kinda disproves his theory of too little valve lash.
Interesting- thank you for sharing your experience 😉
There are a few others on the Failed camshafts FB page who also had the camshaft issue and their clearances were not too tight. Having said this...I own also an 1190 ADV R...on first valve clearance check....intake clearances were in negative numbers....Luckily no damage noticed. But have been told by many that KTM is known to have tight clearances from the factory. They need to change this.
Great video! I own a 901 Expedition since October 23 and I give a 💩 on the stuff postet on the internet! 😂 If it hits me, it hits me. You can be unlucky with any bike. If it’s a GS, CRF1100 or a KTM ADV! I love the Husky and it’s a lot of fun. Today I throw it on my first ever TET ride. Netherlands section 5. No crash bars, no nothing. Just standard out of the factory. Ok… 50mm bar risers because I’m 209cm tall. The only thing I need now are some new mirrors because I sacrificed the left one to the “TET-God”. 😂
Good attitude. Enjoy your Husky 😉
Good info on 790/890 DUKE camshaft failure. The first valve clearance check is at 30 000 km/ ~18 500 miles per the service manual. People are having issues way earlier mileages than that.
I heard that lots of manufacturing debris is left in the early 790 cylinder head that can also cause oil squirter clog.
Now KTM shows some responsibility for the failed camshaft with goodwill replacement.
✌🏻
@@Mr.Bearded.Mechanic thank you very much - I saw the recent press release from KTM. I am also glad to see that the social media posts have not fallen on deaf ears
Great episode. I posted your video on the ADV thread for 790 / 890 Cam Loge Wear. Your video perhaps provides some clues why some bikes have the camshaft ( cam lobe ) wear issue and many others are just fine. Keep this engine shop coming. Cheers.
@@greatfallskam thank you very much 😉 it’s definitely an interesting perspective but of course I still don’t know how common the issues are they we get to see. They are definitely there but maybe the valve clearance check can help
That was an informative video, thanks for that!!
There are a lot of compliants on the KTMs camshaft wear out issue, atleast not all the vehicles like the expert mentioned, but all the issues reported had to do something with the camshaft.
This mostly probably has to do something with the oil distribution, the varying temperatures inside a cylinder block might give rise to this issue. But with limited engine construction space and weight limitations, its a challenge for the KTM engineers to solve.
@@arunbenny6540 I hope they have addressed any potential issues in their next iteration of the 990 engine- I can’t imagine that KTM is not aware of this issue
Klasse Video... Danke das du auch mal bissl Wind,um die Camshaft Geschichten rausgenommen hast... Bei der 1300er BMW gibt's die nächsten Rückrufe, da das Problem rund um das Starterrelais wieder da ist und immernoch nicht aus der Welt ist... Da wird auch keine Welle gemacht... BMW kommt seinen Verpflichtungen nach und gut ist das... Schönen Sonntag und Cheers🫡👍🏻
Besten Dank 😉Die 1300 GS hat ja allerhand an Kinderkrankheiten aber BMW scheint da wirklich hinterher zu sein die Probleme schnellstmöglich aus dem Weg zu räumen. Das mit den KTM Nockenwellen ist sicherlich ein Thema für einige aber es ist echt schwer abzuleiten ob das nun wenige oder viele sind gemessen an den verkauften Maschinen. Die Zurückhaltung in der Sache von KTM hilft dem ganzen natürlich nicht. KTM baut so gute Motorräder aber der Service hat wohl schon einige Kunden verprellt, wenn man so durch die Kommentare schaut.
Thanks for another interesting and informative video. It’s great to see you riding in amazing places on a KTM of course but these sorts of videos are appreciated too. The more people discuss issues and solutions and see disassembled bikes and engines, the more they’ll understand their machine and how to care for it. I don’t think it’s just me who’s learning 🙂
Thank you very much. I was very curious myself and I am happy when I can share what I just learned 😉
My 21 sas had a failed cam chain tensioner around its first big service. Was making a nasty rattle noise. Lucky I caught it in time.
@@jamessymes1 glad you caught it 😉 thank you for sharing your experience- what is your current mileage on the bike?
@@MotoVibes it's just gone over 30,000 miles or 48,000 km. It's been pretty reliable to be honest. Race on switch got replaced in the first week due to water ingress. Apart from that and the failed cam chain tensioner it's been good.
@@jamessymes1 it’s good know 😉 well - I hope you have many more trouble free miles 👍
I would say that if you see the same failure part, then you have a quality control problem.
It's common on KTM since ages.
Thanks for another one video very interesting for all of us 👍
I was speaking with 1 dealer in Austria, and he said that ktm is actually building motorcycles (i m referring to 1290) to make 100 000kms
Thank you very much. I think most riders would need a long time to hit 100k on a single bike 😉
It's not a very high goal...Plenty of Yamahas's Honda's and Suzuki's go far more than 100000. A lot easily to 200000.. A few 300000. A Honda CBF 600 or a NTV 600 you think about the distribution chain at more than 160000 km. On a air oil ccoled Suzuki GSXR 1100, althought the 140 HP and many 1000 km on the autobahn at high speed, the camshaft chain began a little noise at 120000 km. It was changed, the engine had all its compressions, camshafts like knew. It has now 200000 km. I know a VFR 750 with almost 300000 km going well, all its compressions and not burning oil.
Good video. I do all my own servicing but I change oil every 5000k as I think 12000 is far too long and may help in causing wear. I would be interested to know how often the oil was changed in this KTM?
Great video.
Thank you very much 😉 Stephan typically changes oil every 10k km instead of the recommended 15k km
@@MotoVibes would you think 10k is s too long for such an engine. I do mine every 5000 and at 40.000k without even the slightest hint of trouble. It always seems that on the 1290 engine these problems arise when oil changes go to 10.000 and over. Be interested to know what you think.
Cheers
@@biker_dan I am not an expert on this but typically oil degradation does depend on how you ride. Harder “race” like riding or off-road riding would benefit from earlier than recommended oil changes. I think 10k kilometers as an average for is rental fleet is pretty good (KTM recommends 15k kilometers)
I agree 5000klm maximum,oil is cheap engine rebuild not so much.
It's simply bad metallurgy. The cams are not correctly treated. Camshaft problems is a very old issue on KTMs, on the monos that was an insufficient oil pump, on a lot of others it's simply being cheap, the camshafts don't have a good enough treatment.
Honda had that on the 1984 750 VF and corrected it in a short time. Now a VFR can have 250000 km with impeccable camshafts. Kawasaki had that on a series of 500 and 1000 in the 90's, that was corrected within a year. KTM has a long tradition of not correcting issues and mistreating customers.
KTM offers 10 years on their cams. So that’s good support.
KTM has several major problems. 1. Loads of power so highly stressed engines. 2. Many components come from China CF. 3. Awful dealer network, mainly former 2 stroke off road dealers. 4. Quality control awful. Result? Horrible reliability.
most bikes are mad in china., it's just how much profit company's want so Quality department is the first one to go. Hence why CFmoto can sell bikes so cheap
I don't believe the camshaft wear is due to tight clearance of the valves. This will cause the valve seats to burn.
It was an interesting point but I do not know what the actual issue was on those bikes affected and how high the percentage was compared to the number of bikes sold. It is defintely an issue that KTM recently repsonded to publicly.
I agree. It's a problem of quality, specially the metal treatments for hardening the surface of the camshafts. It's a recurrent issue on the KTM since a very long time.
Very nice review and good opinion from professionals.
@@janisvinters8797 thank you very much 😉
Interessante Einblicke, danke Dir! 👍🏼
@@Zitoline1 gerne doch. Vielen Dank fürs schauen 😉
I just had to do a rebuild on my 2015 KTM 1290 SA after 115000km. The main shaft to the sprocket got damaged when the sprocket came loose. Some interesting things found inside the engine. 2 of the 3 oil pumps was damaged and it would only have been a matter of time before it would have seized up. The culpret of the damage.... the 6th gear was worn out and about to break bits off the teeth. Another interesting find was the stator coil that was burned and on tye way out. The pistons and sleeves was still within specs so we only did new rings and a full bearing and seals kit. The head was also sent to engineering works for a freshup. Have done another 4000km since the rebuild and it runs perfect now.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience- especially interesting with the mileage that you had. Well I hope you get to ride another 100k km with it 😉
Wow, what was the cost of this major operation if I might ask?
My 1190 has 100k kilometres on it, I might be looking at a rebuild myself..
@@gorgeousgeorge187 engine rebuild labor was about 1000 Euros plus parts
@@gorgeousgeorge187 I was also thinking of doing it myself but there is a bunch of special tools I did not have. The repairs was around $2000 at my local KTM dealer. And I do get a 12 month warrantee from KTM on the work. So I guess it was worth it.
@@MotoVibes my 2020 AT 1100 has also reached over 100k kilometers however so far i do not foresee any engine rebuild coming up ever, the beast still runs like the first day off the dealer, never had any major problems with it, only issue i had was with seized up exhaust can valve which has been entirely pulled out since last year.
Get a Japanese bike folks and ride them problem free into the hundreds of thousands km/miles.
Does anyone know where the 1290 engine is made? I have a 790 Duke and an RC390 and would love to buy more KTMs but i cannot as they are more and more reliant on CF Moto. Not interested in sending my money to China for several reasons, and not only quality concerns.
Agreed, I would love a 790 adventure but I can't stand to send my money to an adversarial and possibly terrorist country who would rather see me dead just to save myself a few bucks. These may not be your reasons but they are mine.
Austria, but I can see that changing.
The 1290 engines are made in Austria...
All the older 1x90 engines as well
Most of the engines are made in china.not just for ktm.there are engine assembled in other countries,but many castings are from china also wheels, frames,etc.not just ktm.since 2010 or thereabouts
Exactly, me too I boycott china mades. For many reasons
That was cool!
@@chriseastburn3551 thank you - I wasn’t sure how interesting this is going to be for others but I thought it was pretty interesting too 😉
They do contract work for KTM , so of course they are not going to say the 790/ 890 camshafts are made from an inferior too-soft metal that has a low CARBON content. Independant metallurgy testing has been proven the melal in the camshafts to be too soft regarding the rockwell hardness standards specification.
@@islanddreaming8591 it’s a possibility but I did not get the impression that he was just telling us story. I don’t have the expert knowledge myself I was just interested in hearing from someone that works on KTM engines all the time
The 790/890 cam issues highlights where KTM don’t give good warranty cover, and so they get bad reputation with their customers and potential future customers. If only they looked after their customers better, this would give more confidence, even with the known issues.
@@windinthewillows6248 I absolutely agree. Having a problem with something isn’t the end of the day but we the pain drags on with slow or poor customer service this can deter future customers.
Interesting Video
Thank you very much 😉
Hi! The TH-cam transcript was set to German and it is not possible to use TH-cam translator because the source is in German, not English, detect with errors the transcript to another language. Could you please set the source language to English (not German) for the subtitles? This way non-English speaking users will be able to change the transcript from English to another language. Thanks!
Thank you. I will check this one I am back from my current tour 😉
Nice video and definitely a pro setup but it could be nice if KTM would tell about the weak point for their engine, the oil pump or whatever because the rumours affects the value of bikes without warranty. I can do any kind of repair on my BMW myself so Personally I would not dare to buy a KTM and risk months without my bike. In general the dealerships moves bikes while they lack technical knowledge.
@@bjrnhjjakobsen2174 thank you very much Peter s was telling us that the 1290 engine is very reliable but sometimes parts can brake. Also with lots of mileage there is wear on the parts. In this case we think that the oil pump was damage early in the life of the engine because some one at the KTM service overfilled the bike with engine oil. If that was indeed the reason no one knows but the oil pump was definitely damaged
Great vid! I love content like this and there is so much conjecture going around. Thanks for asking about the 790/890 engines...I have a 790 Duke and Norden 901. Yet to pull the valve cover off the Duke yet and it's a 2018 model :)
Thank you very much. I was curious about the 790/890 issues and maybe the valve clearance is something to take a closer look at but of course it’s a big deal to open the engine before the 30k km service - but hey maybe someone will do it and prevent damage to the camshaft 😉
The KTM twins in line engines surely are made in China. Some say the complete bikes in China. Probably all the components are made in China and assembled in Austria for a problem de custom taxes and grants from Europe and Austria. Plenty of components of the HTM, Husqvarna and other satellites of KTM are made in China. The 390 is 110% indian by Bajaj which owns 49% of KTM since 2007. No Austrian has been harmed making the 390.
In fact if you want to be sure to not buy any Chinese component in a motorcycle, the best is to stop buying new bikes, and buy only used bikes made before 2000 to be absolutely sure for any Japanese brand. The European brands began a bit later including Triumph which closed their British facilities to assemble bikes in Thailand with plenty of Chinese components. Except a few engineers no British worker is earning a pound from Triumph. The 400 is made 110% by Bajaj which probably will buy Ducati from Audi.
Honda has joint ventures with Chinese companies since 2000 like Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki. BMW has had the F650 engine and all the parallel twins made in China since ages by Loncin which makes also components of the flat twins. Loncin makes also engines for Kawasaki and uses the KLX 300 engine fot its Voge 300 Rally and plenty of pieces for several brands.
Even Ducati (owned by Audi) uses plenty of Chinese components, and Moto Guzzi is using gear boxes made in China.
I don't talk about electronics, as 95% of the electronics on bikes are made in China.The Bosch injections are made in China. That's global capitalism.
Probably you're reading this post on a computer or a smartphone Chinese or plenty of Chinese components.
@@MotoVibes It's useless and with KTM you may loose the guarantee, except the valve clearance. Better make an analysis of the oil that will tell more than a visual inspection. The marks on the cams are visible only when the hard surface is worn, before you won't see anything except if you can measure by 1/1000 of mm, but the oil analysis will tell you if there is steel in the oil. it's the method used in aviation.
Gutes Video
Vielen Dank 🙏
The biggest problem of KTM is their „OEM” oil. I have 1290 2021 30k kms running only on shell advance ultra 15w50 and don’t have any even smallest scratches on cams. Only one shim was corrected at valve clearance check. Also I do not more than 8k kms on oil, always warming up especially after few days of staying.
@@jerronimo6874 thank you for the advice. Definitely not a bad idea to do oil changes more frequently than then typical 15k km 😉
@@MotoVibes 6-8k and proper oil filter clean because a lot of dealers are NOT cleaning them propertly, they aren’t cleaning those magnets inside, after that they clog everything and camshafts aren’t lubed correctly. I’ve found that KTM has changed those filters to newer one. Actually it’s bad servicing and bad things happen
@@jerronimo6874 You are supposed to change your filter every time you change oil and change your oil every 5000 miles/8000km, on any bike for that reason, it is cheap, it will cost you like 50 euro with oil and filter together and give you peace of mind, do it yourself.
@@fs5866 but I’m doing that, always.
@@jerronimo6874 That's good, you're not supposed to clean oil filters, you replace them cause they are cheap.
And if OEM ones are not cheap then buy aftermarket ones, same quality, often much cheaper.
Change oil and filter's maximum 5000klm,160 hp v twin engine.
2020 KTM 790 Adv R, and my intake cam failed before the first major service/valve check
What did KTM say?
@@MotoVibes I didn't even bother with them based on previous experience, I just bought a replacement and installed it myself
@@theshadyeightyshow3355 way to go - seems like you are skilled enough to perform such repairs on your bike 👍
@@MotoVibes KTM provides all of their service manuals for free in PDF format, they are detailed and easy to follow
@@theshadyeightyshow3355 mate i would've been outraged.
I'm anoyed that KTM would not let me buy an extended warranty, in Germany where I bought the bike, or in Latvia where I live.
I bought a 890 knowing about the potential problems because I so enjoyed the 950A that I owned for twenty years and covered over 225,000 kms on. I looked after the engine because I don't trust any company to do this.
That is a shame - warranty seems to be very different from country to country. In Germany we get the min. 2 years warranty - in the USA it is only one year. But then again if you are skilled enough to do your own maintenance then over time this likely the best and cheapest way to go. If you go with the manufacturer warranty you need to let them do all the services otherwise you risk that they will not honor the warranty anymore.
@@MotoVibes In the English language promotional brochure, it stated that extended warranty could be purchased and extended each year until the bike was a certain age or had covered a certain number of kms, but in actual fact I was unable to to buy it. I do agree that it probably works out cheaper (and better) to carry out the service, maintenance and repair work yourself, but to purchase a new cylinder head would be crazy money, and to spend that on a potentially unreliable bike! I've already had to replace the suspension because the OE WP/KTM units are absolute rubbish, because when KTM bought the company, the specialists were left behind in the Netherlands.
It's law to provide two years warranty in Europe. In the US, it suits KTM to call the R model a competition machine, and hence reduce the warranty term.
what is he talking about? tight valve clearance wiping the oil away? so how come the lobe pushing the valve for half of a turn is not wiping the oil off the lobe? a tight clearance would first cause the cylinder to misfire.
i guess that would make sense, since lobe would have no space to get lubed in between pushing the valves down.
@@fs5866 it does not work that way. the lobe is constantly wet in oil. even if it's in constant contact with the lifter it'll transfer an oil film underneath. besides, if that was the culprit why only the lobe would get eaten away and not the lifter? not to mention, you'd much faster lose the compression from no valve clearance than had the lobe worn down. it's a simple case of failed hardening process by the looks of it.
new pistons and crankshaft at 60.000km? my 1290 GT has 110.000km at its ODO-meter and don't consume any oil.
It was not necessary as said in the video but since engine was open it made sense to change them too
@@MotoVibesThe guy actually stated the crankshaft bearings were very close to their minimum acceptable size! That is far from normal after 60.000 km and seems to point to lubrication and/or cooling and/or material quality issues. But perhaps that’s normal for a KTM? Also: keep in mind this company gets quite a bit of work from KTM so I’m not convinced they are completely honest in their public statements on KTM quality issues.
Also: if the 790/890 camshaft problems are linked to overly tight valve clearance then why did KTM recently redesign the LC8c engine rocker arms and oil strainer? It all sounds very fishy to me and then there is of course the terrible way in which KTM has been handling this treating its customers (and dealers) like 💩.
@@jschoofs That was definitely not normal, crankshaft bearing were pretty worn, it should NOT happen at only 60k kilometers.
Very interesting. Does it mean that valve clearance is set manually, engine by engine (he calls it setting up), during manufacturing? I’d have thought it would all be identically the same shims for all.
Manufacturing has a tolerance of acceptability, as such the valves can and do have different shims, so they have to be checked after assembly.
Interesting- I did not know that either 👍
@@cpuuk thanks I didn’t know. So there’s actually a man who goes with a feeler gauge and puts the right shims in? Or perhaps checks if any is out of spec after “standard” shims are in and adjusts tolerance? Of course this can be highly error prone.
Finally a nice engine in a Tesla 😂
😂😂
I can imagine if this shit was with a GS.. Rebuilding a engine at 60000Km, really??? Some guys I Know make 50000km a year on GS, (I do 20k to 30K) so a bit more and they need to replace a engine every year. These machines are not build to last, just for race, and they are good doing it, but 99.99% are not racers.
For most engines a rebuild is not necessary at that mileage 😉
If you try to ride a GS like a KTM they break pretty quickly. Had a buddy who tried to ride a BMW HP2 with us who had KTM 950. He gave up after a few clutches and final drives and bought a KTM. Oh, and the air intake on that bike was low on the side of the bike pointed forward as i recall it. When he went through a puddle, the puddle went into the air filter. And then the rear air shock without rebound dampening, lethal. Had to be replaced with an Öhlins. He basically ended up paying the bike twice trying to sort everything. Amazing. But sure, if you just putting a bike on cruise control and start ticking the miles, that's a different story.
@@user-do1sr9wg1wSorry, but your point is a bit ridiculous to justify that a engine is gone at 60k. Riding a BMW like a KTM ??? What that really means??? I think you don't know the same riders as me. I know a big bunch of them riding aggressively, If is that what you mean riding a KTM (even if the vast majority of KTM users, don't ride like that) and none of them has a engine gone at 60k, none. It's funny the arguments we use to justify our choices.
@@nunosantos8784 it means nothing lol, the riders for a big ktm and a big bmw are the same, guy talks out of his a hole.Both of these big bikes are used by old farts with money to tour on nicely smooth roads 2 or 3 months a year.
@@fs5866 are you sure about that? Not in my world. Regarding the KTM, not reliable enough in the past 20 years, at least, to gain the confidence of the real travelers, that's why I never saw 1 single KTM around in the counties I rode, Africa, and South America. Regarding BMW, you have 2 different kinds, one is the ones you referred, but the second group is on the other side of the scope, the ones who put thousands of km in their bikes.. and no, they are not old nor fat, they are people across different ages, since 20 till 80s. Paying 20 or 30k for a bike, of course is a lot, but why paying that amount of money for a car is not? With 50k to spend in vehicles, I much prefer spending 30k in a bike and 20k in a car, and is more than enough. Is a matter of options and how much value you put in something that you really want.
Fantastic video 🏆🏆 What music do you. use for your exit video please? Tks
@@DaveDayve thank you very much. I need to look up the song when I am back home again tomorrow 😉
Destination by STRLGHT 👍🏻
@@zexypupil doesn't sound like it
music.th-cam.com/video/EO82piFrBRg/w-d-xo.html&feature=shared
Go to 1 minute 52 seconds and listen again. That’s the outro to this video. There may be other mixes but that’s the familiar part.
@@zexypupil OK Tks and sorry for being impatient
Bei 6:14 ist beim Krümmer am Motorengehäuse eine Schraube am mit vibrieren. sollte nicht sein.
Are you saying that it's OK to buy KTM 790, 890,1290 and that there shouldn't be any problems with cams ?
@@aarsenalfan the cams issue is a 790/890 problem not a 1290 problem. There are plenty of 790/890 with no problems but there are a few that have problems with camshaft and they are dealing with KTMs service which is not always the most accommodating for customers
I rode a 890 adventure off-road earlier this year and was absolutely blown away by how well it rides - they are thrilling bikes
@@MotoVibes Thinking about 790 because is $5K cheeper then 890, 1290 is $10K more.
@@aarsenalfan go for it 😉🤙
@@aarsenalfan go for Japanese brand.
Where did you go to get the decals for you 1290?
It is a place in the USA called Moto Design Studio
What was actually the cause for the broken engine? Was it due to oil pump failure?
Oil pump failure that caused the breakdown of connecting rod, if I understood
@@jage6126 it’s hard to say but the oil pump was damaged for sure - the rest of the parts still looked pretty good
Vahrahannes hat schon Heute 758.235km auf seinem Moped, Honda Varadero XL1000, bin gespannt ob ein 790/890er Motor 1/10 davon erreicht, von meinem Sohn hat sich nach ca. 14tkm verabschiedet, Motorschaden. Ansonsten gute Motorräder 🙂
Wow. Wahnsinn die Kilometerleistung! Tut mir leid mit dem Motorschaden Deines Sohns. Wisst ihr was die Ursache war?
@@MotoVibes die Nocken fast rund geworden und und ich glaube zwei oder drei Hebeln gebrochen, Gott sei Dank Garantiefall, ansonsten im KTM Forum genug Bilder davon, 790/890er Probleme. Das ist nur ein Bruchteil was kaputt war 🙂deswegen nie wieder
Echt ein sehr interessantes Video, gerade auch was die 890er Motoren betrifft 👍
Meine 1290s adv von 2018 hat jetzt 76k auf der Uhr und sie hat mich diesmal in Zagreb im Stich gelassen, ein Jahr Planung und Vorfreude voll fürn Arsch, ich könnte kotzen!
Ich überlege ernsthaft auf einen Japaner umzusteigen weil zuverlässig auf größeren Reisen einfach das wichtigste ist!
Ich hätte sie einfach vor ihren 50k in Zahlung geben sollen. Aber alle 3 Jahre ein neues Motorrad geht auch gut ins Geld 😢
@@pierreschmale vielen Dank 😉 tut mir leid mit deinem Motorrad und vor allem für den Abbruch der Reise. Das ist echt ärgerlich. Weisst du was das Problem war?
@@MotoVibes noch nicht, aber ich vermute die Lichtmaschine, werde berichten 👍
It’s the crap material and case hardening with insufficient oil supply.
I would never consider buying a KTM now. Maybe in 10 years I’ll look at them again in case they have learnt to build a reliable bike by then, but with an abundance of caution.
They're spending a lot of money on that engine! It's not cleaver to spend other people's money just to protect your own reputation. If you are a specialist, you should know that those pistons are still good. They have a small amount of wear on the Teflon coating. It's nothing.
Stephan actually bought all the parts himself - not Peter. Stephan followed his recommendations but he did not have to. If was worth it to him as the bike itself is in prestine condition and now looks like new after the engine rebuild and major service.
@@MotoVibesHow much was spent on the engine - parts, labour etc.?
Geht der Ganze "Spaß" jetzt auf deine Kappe ?
Das war Stephans Motor. Ja - er zahlt das ganze
60,000km is NOT a "lot"! It is absolutely absurd that at ONLY 60K an engine had wear and issues!!!
To be fair - the only big issue was with the oil pump. The rest was just exchanged because the engine was already taken apart.
@@MotoVibes i mean a faulty oil pump can ruin and destroy the whole engine so that is a major issue.
@@fs5866 that was our best guys but no one really knows- even from looking at the parts
How much did you pay for the rebuild?
I think it was 1200 Euros for the rebuild. Parts between 1500-2000 euro I believe.
@@MotoVibes for that money you could've gotten 2 used engines from ebay in working order with less miles.
@@fs5866 where is the fun in that 😂
KTM is not Honda.
nope it is not - for better and for worse 😉
Najważniejszego czyli górnej panewki nie pokazali😡
Hey - I have tried to google translate your comment but all I could get was that something was missing? but I did not understand what excatly. 🤔
@@MotoVibesthey didn't show the most important part - upper bearing shell
The fact that the main guy there wears a Ducati T-shirt says it all 🤣🤣🤣🤣
WTF
KTM
makes nice bikes
But !!!
They are unreliable and The residential value is shit !!!!
@@piotrmodnicki3406 😂 well - they work on bikes of all brands 😉
@@MotoVibes and yet he chose to wear a DUCATI T-shirt 🙈😅
@@piotrmodnicki3406 it's his dirty work shirt, his KTM shirt is in the trophy cabinet :D
@@dawn-moon 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🙌🏻
Deberias de traducirlo al español. Me gustan tus vídeos pero si no lo haces no te podré seguir. No te pongas obstáculos para poder seguirte 😢😢😢
Just put auto subtitles on. Most of his vids aren’t translated into English either…
The sub titles are a good idea. TH-cam does a good job translating the videos 😉
na lieber keine obere Lagerschale vom Pleul zeigen was....
Jeder der KTM fährt weiß warum .-))
KTM are overpriced overweight garbage.