The Tragic Fall of the Fighting Type in Competitive Monotype Pokemon
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2022
- The Tragic Fall of the Fighting Type in Competitive Monotype Pokemon
Did you know that in generation 5, Fighting was one of the top types? But now in gen 8 it's terribad... A look at the history of the fighting type...
thanks to ashbala, sasha, drifting and tga for helping with the video :)
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What’s the music used in the video, and could you credit the composer(s)? I know you usually use music straight from the games, but I think there was a remix in there somewhere.
Yo awesome vid! This is Wyv from the battle at 3:30. Before the Mega Medi ban fighting was defs a top 5 type gen 6, and I still believe it is for gen 6, but MPL/BLT doesn't reflect type useability super well. The meta there is entirely Flying/Psy/Water which is why Elec was such a huge type as an antimeta in the last MPL. Also honest opinion from Gen 6 MPL/BLT this past year but fighting was seriously underused and misused. Mega Gard is practically nonexistant on Psy builds there in turn for Mega Gallade psy, and fighting has a mu that can go either way there, plus Fighting has a winning mu vs. water so it can handle 2 of the big 3 rather well and beat the anti meta types hands down. Main reason I didn't use fighting at all is how high my bug usage is, pretty much a 50% chance I end up facing flying so no point
Fighting-types had fall from grace in normal competitive pokemon as well. There was a time when all fully-evolved Fighting Pokemon were tiered I think NU and above (I think PU had to use Monferno and ZU had to use Pignite, and both were still top Pokemon in those tiers). It was truly an amazing type back then, before they nerfed it, and quite the reversal of fortunes compared to Gen I where it was arguably the absolute worst type!
the best emote ever made
You could honestly do a whole video on how the Tapus revolutionized Gen 7 competitive.
i back this
I agree and now I need this
*cries in keldeo*
*ruined
That sounds like a video idea for false swipe gaming
Im a top 500 gen 8 monotype player. The main problem with mono fighting is simply it's lack of diversity. A huge amount of fighting types are simply close combat nukes, and that leaves insane compression for the few fighting types that have rocks, hazard removal, are special attackers, etc. Toxicroak and Scrafty/Pangoro are mandatory in order to stop Fairy and Psychic, however the two types usally bring psychic and fairy coverage respectfully, leaving things like hattrene, slowbro, and tapu lele to shred open mono fighting. It's main draw, a good matchup against mono-steel, isn't even true. Specs jirachi and leftovers aegislash are very common picks on mono steel, and as someone who mains mono-steel, the few times I have ever seen mono-fighting, I have usually won with careful prediction and sacs. A resistance to stealth rocks helps the type with it's lack of defoggers, but having kommo-oh and coballion pressured too much throughout a game means there is little time to setup your own stealth rocks. Unlike dragon, who suffers from similar issues but has great breakers to wear down teams as well as the monster that is ou legal kyruem, it generally tries to cover simple teambuilding mechanics, and suddenly fall apart mid game once it's mons are chipped down. One last point is that fighting types almost always lack recovery, and have no healing, making them prone to close combat drops even more. These issues are less present in Ou normal, where you can cover for a strong close combat users like urshifu-r or terrakion with wish support, clerical support, and hazard removal.
Sorry this was so long lol.
Thanks for this comment! I knew nothing about the monotype scene before this video so I liked the extra context you added. How's mono-water?
@@Yesnomu probly OP considering you can build around their weakness with sap sipper or volt absorb so their only weakness is freeze dry. Also water is is pretty diverse
@@Yesnomu Water is one of the best, Freezai has another vid recently going through the top 5 types in the meta if you're interested!
th-cam.com/video/sjel3avy7Dk/w-d-xo.html
Honestly you would be better off using mono-fire or ground for steel types
@@Yesnomu really good. has lots of counterplay to most types, can run either rain offense, the most common, or even a bit bulkier style of team which is rare in monotype as it's a very offensive tier. I've even tried sap sipper azumarill with knock off to attempt at handling it's only auto loss, grass.
Gen 8 also removed Pursuit, which meant Psychic and Ghost-types were more at their advantage.
Mono Ghost being more common is insanely bad for Mono Fighting because Mono Fighting vs Mono Ghost has a real shot at being possibly the single worst match up in the entire game. The fighting type is a one trick pony with no versatility, longevity or utility, and that one trick happens to be Close Combat Spam
So being faced by a type with a lot of versa6 and just as strong and spammable offenses that also happens to be completely immune to basically your one only one trick ...... yeah, that's tough, especially when Corsola Galar, Aegislash and Mimikyu are in almost every single Ghost team and all are massive headaches for the few ways that Fighting might try to break through.
And yeah of course as you implied, there's also the issue of the Ghost and Psychic types in other teams, but having such a clearly one sided and basically unwinnable match up against one of the more popular and better types out there is such a massive flaw (not like Fighting needs help in struggling with the rest of the meta, like it doesn't even have such great match ups against Ice and Steel, and being good against Rock isn't really very valuable when Rock is also a bottom tier type that you never see played, and the Fighting teams themselves are barely even functional since everything they might try to have more than just CC spam will be some pretty unreliable lower tier mons for the most part).
Holt shit I think I could go on and on with this tirade about how bad the type is
Freezai: "Why did the Fighting-type fall off the wagon?"
Us: "Was it the Fairy-type?"
Freezai: "Well no, but actually yes."
I mostly play mono-Electric and when I match up against a Fighting-type player I almost feel bad for them. It's kinda baffling that we still don't have a Fighting/Ground type yet. Without any Electric immunities, Regieleki in Electric Terrain basically destroys mono-Fighting by itself. If they have Kommo-o, then you might have to attack once with Tapu Koko too.
At least mono-Bug has the chance to sweep me with Volcarona. Fighting really has nothing haha
Why isn't there a fighting ground pokemon
@@Chunkosaurus there just isn't. Maybe in the next games
@@Chunkosaurus This is a pretty good question. We have almost every other type with ground covered except for Dark and Fighting which is weird
@@Whodjathink Krookodile
Although Ground/Fairy is unused.
As a Monotype player and analysis contributor, what really killed Fighting was the newfound dominance of Flying, alongside the reliable killings of Fairy and Psychic. Fighting was decent when Urshifu-S, but that goes to show how weak Fighting was; even Urshifu-S couldn't save it. Now there's semi-serious discussion of unbanning Zamazenta-H to buff Fighting. Yikes.
I want to see a video about how Dragon monotype reacted to the Fairy introduction. It seems from this video that the Fairy monotype wasn't really a big issue in its debut gen, but with the addition of the Tapus in Gen 7 Dragon would definitely be the one type that hurt the most, even more than Fighting.
Dragon basically had to use Dragalge to have a prayer against Fairy in Gen 7. Not ideal
@@seanscott2677 What's worse is Fairy has Magearna in Gen 8, which absolutely walls Dragalge, so i guess if Dragon face against Fairy they have to be agressive to get rid of the Magearna somehow, or else they just instantly lose once Dragalge goes down.
my brother is a dragon type stan and he's still to this day malding over how dragons got cucked
Dragon is unironically worse than fighting
@@Rarest26 How? Dragon types generally have good stats overall, and while Dragon isn't the best STAB for type effectiveness, it hits anything that *isn't* Steel or Fairy for at least neutral. Also, Dragon has plenty of good mons (like Dragapult) and coverage moves. I mean, yeah, Gen. VII/Gen. VIII mono fairy is tough, as is mono ice, but outside of those flaws (and opposing mono dragon), it seems pretty good.
I think a funny idea for a video is how GF’s game design made Kubfu, Urshifu’s pre-evo, unavailable for LC play, due to it being given to the player at level 10, and Urshifu being unbreedable. Some theoring on how Kubfu could impact the meta would also be cool…
Nunca entendi por que um urso bodybuilder lendário tem dois gêneros. Seria porque Kubfu é um "Pseudo-inicial"?
WDYM? I think urshifu is very breedable
@@AveragePearEnjoyer ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
No, it isn’t
As someone who was massively into gen 6 mono and got to top 50 with it, coming back and playing gen 8 mono fighting was a nightmare. The loss of breloom, infernape, mega gallade and hidden power all stung really bad. Keldeo used to solo monoground, but now is hard walled by gastradon, infernape used to be a solid switch in to will-o-wisp pokemon, which combined with it's speed then allowed it do some serious damage through teams. Breloom was just a better version of Verizion with priority. Not to mention, everything now is just way faster. Like speed creep was insane, tapu Koko +regi eleki can outspeed your entire team and there's literally no swtichins for either if electric terrain is up. Not to mention the lack of a good fighting dark. Pangoro and scrafty are all too slow to out perform most psychic mons, aside from slow bro and are still extremely weak to being ohko'd by any no stab fairy move. Every game comes down to if you can setup Hawlucha to sweep, but actually getting him there requires your opponent to mess up
That, and dark-types lost pursuit in gen 8, so psychic and ghost-types could just run away from fighting/darks that had pursuit in prior gens.
They just had to make it weak against Fairy...
I honestly feel bad for Fighting type at this point, it's kind of like Ice where having it as a coverage move is an awesome thing for any Pokemon to have access to, but having the type itself a massive weak point.
Yeah, not as bad as making fairy resist bug, but it really hurt
Bug should be se against fairy.
@Aqua Rius least delusional fairy fan
@Aqua Rius its for balancing sake, and some fairy in tale actually afraid of bug
@@aquarius4201 fire burns nature, flying eats nature, rock smash nature, water drowns nature, psychic manipulate nature, steel dominates nature, dragon crushes nature, ground smother nature...
with such a logic, everything should be super effective over bug type
Always happy to see an idea brought up in a different video actually come to fruition. A lot of TH-camrs bring up these really interesting video topics and never deliver. Props
Let's get to 100k! So happy for you Freezai, I've been here since before 2k and it's been awesome seeing you grow and get better!
fighting type wasnt hurt by the introduction of fairy type, it was hurt by the introduction of more fairy, basically
I love your choices of music. The nostalgia it triggers is just… chefs kiss 🔥
Eh, sounds like a skill issue
Spoken like a melmetal user in let’s go.
I agree!
@@jayplay8869 Spoken like a Melmetal user.* FTFY
Based
True
This video was really good as per usual! Keep up the great work
Been subbed for a while and I really like the brevity of content on this channel. One of the few channels I watch every single new release from!
On top of the things mentioned in the video, Pursuit's removal in gen 8 increased the popularity of psychic and ghost types since pokemon that used to have Pursuit could no longer trap them, which further hampered the effectiveness of fighting-types.
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Congrats on almost 100k. I started following you early this year and you were at like 17k. You blew up fast
the end screen is sick btw, lovin' the pokemon explorers of time Iconic beach sunset!
yesss I’ve been waiting for this video
Like the endcard. I think there were some people complaining about the abrupt endings to these videos before. I think the music is a bit too loud, though.
Between Marshadow, Urshifu-dark, and Blaziken, there's a lot of useful fighting types you can't use in monotype.
Why won’t they unban Blaziken? It’s literally in UUBL
@@Nameless0131 blaziken singlehandedly invalidated many mono types team,that's why it's banned
When mono-Fighting needs a broken Pokémon to be good
@@iantaakalla8180 when there's types like steel that have an answer to literally everything, then yeah. Being Uber doesn't stop Cinderace and Galarian Darmanitan from being allowed in monotype.
@@colder32 Blaziken is much much more oppressive in a Monotype format tho
WAIT FREEZAI SO CLOSE TO 100K LET’S GOOOOOOOOOO
Honestly I've been struggling to use mono fighting and this video perfectly sums up why
Gen 1: Fighting Sucked
Gens 2-5: Buff after Buff after Buff
Gens 6-8: Oh No! Fighting Sucks Again!
it was serviceable in Gen 6, which is more than we can say about Gens 7 and 8
Personally abandoned fighting mono into gen 6, but my electric mono very rarely lost to it after I swapped with mega amph cotton guard since usually the only special fighting type was keldeo who rarely ran focus blast and secret sword hit def with hydro was resisted. Hugely loving not only a trip down memory lane but an update since I dropped mono and comp pokemon midway through gen 7. Got a new sub from me
I have over 2000 battles with generation 7 monotype fighting. I have been consistently top 20 in the past and had up to 90% GXE with only the same fighting team. I can say that it did not completely fall off in gen 7, it just became a different kind of playstyle. Kommonium-Z is an extremely strong tool for the type, and it can singlehandedly take down entire types, including flying under the right conditions. Scarf Terrakion is an absolute must for its revenge killing and its sweep potential. Cobalion is a must for its utility and answer to most fairies. Mega Gallade is required as it is a wincon in many matchups such as poison and psychic. That gives you two remaining options. Breloom is an amazing lead against nearly every type, as it can give you a very good head start with spore and it's amazing as a wallbreaker with swords dance and technician dual stab. As for a last slot, I advocate for Buzzwole, because it can be an amazing tank and has great coverage. You can give it a choice scarf, but it does not need max speed like Terrakion. Enough to outspeed Tapu Koko and Crobat is enough. As weird as it is, I believe dual scarf fighting is viable and I have proven that it can work against nearly any kind of team under the right conditions, even being able to win very unfavorable matchups against consistently good players. It hard loses to webs fairy, though. Nothing can be done about that unless you want to bring some weird defog Hawlucha set. A lot of people will also say that Keldeo is required on fighting, but I believe you get more usage out of something like Buzzwole. Not having Keldeo on a fighting team makes it kind of difficult to break through dark's defensive core, stragely enough. Fighting is a very fun type to play in my opinion, and I really enjoy the challenge it presented in generation 7. It's such a shame to see how gutted it got in generation 8, maybe it'll be better in generation 9.
shut the hell up noob
Cool
Great content!
One more reason I think is that a Fighting type Pokémon on any other monotype team will act to create offensive pressure. The fighting types are incredibly strong attackers, but not many can actually take a hit. The only fighting type Pokémon that can called defensively better is Conkeldurr, that too barely. As such, you cannot switch into any attacks, which is very difficult in battles. Let me know what you think
Love the Pokémon reborn music
I'd personally love to see a video about the Bug Type and how it has improved over the years.
first impression + water bubble
Why Mono Fighting was good in Gen 5: Swords of Justice
Why Mono Fighting was bad in Gen 7: The Tapus
When he did his subscriber plug I thought "You know he puts in good work, I enjoy his videos, I'll subscribe." I then see I am already subscribed.
"Let's fix competitive Pokemon by introducing the fairy type! What do you mean everything weak to fairy is now trash?"
As someone who only plays mono-fighting, it’s pretty difficult. Lele, jirachi, aegislash, toxapex, koko, both slowbro, ghosts that can burn and fairy in general are all huge problems. Maybe Sneasler can boost up fighting’s viability if it ever gets the chance to be used
So, if fighting types are really bad, then Normal types can shine, right?
... right?
Not in Gen 8, but maybe in Gen 9 when we get H-Zoroark, Wyrdeer, Ursaluna, and Farigarif
UPDATE: Blissey/Chansey got their movepools gutted, also lost Diggersby and Heliolisk for base-game (tho Ursaluan should take the former's place). But then again S/V base-game screws over 10/18 types in mono-type
thanks god, I has been a long time without a red arrow in the thumbnail
Fairy’s introduction to the game seemed pretty clearly to be a case of hoping it would be a panacea to type imbalances, but trying to excuse that with low stats and weak fairy types.
But immediately Azumarill, Mega Mawile, Xerneas etc kind of broke things. Then it just got power creeped.
Fairy as a concept is fine, but I hate fairy as it exists.
Agree. I still don't see why they made Fairy resist Dark when they made a Dark Legendary. Gen 6 had the worst balanced boxed legendaries right up until Gen 8 came along. Like serious gamefreak, Xerneas is a fairy and gets its fairy moves boosted versus Yveltal who is a dark type? They should have made Fairy weak to Dark while also keeping Dark weak to Fairy
@@Whodjathink I mean not really? Yveltal certainly wasn’t bad in Gen 6 even though Xerneas was considered better. However in Gen 7 and especially in Gen 8 Yveltal became the superior unit of the two.
@@Whodjathink TF??? Dark needed another type to resist it so knock off could've been buffed. Without it many Dark types may have been too powerful for thier respective tiers. Besides as of now Yveltal is the most important mon in Ubers
You know what this series needs?
A collab with NathanLikesChicken, the people’s monotype champ
Excellent video
I play mono Dark and Ice and I don't remember the last time I lost to a Fighting team lol, I definitely did as my teams are not optimized at all and I just play for fun with stuff like Scarf Trick Zoroark and Body Press Avalugg but most of the time Mandibuzz and Ninetales are enough to just stop them in their tracks, it's a shame really I wish the type had more diversity
As underwelming as fighting type teams are now, sturdy scarf Sawk will always be my guilty pleasure
Watching this after sweeping a fighting type team using porygonz lol
i like the more upbeat music, i think it helps the videos act a little less passive while still not changing the core vibe in a harmful way
Do you know the name of the background song at 4:01?
@@DarkKnight_Rules Team flare theme
@@shapesbb thanks
I wonder how fighting fares in hypothetical earlier gen monotype metas. 4 seems viable, probably 3 too, but 2 I'm not sure of. 1 is obviously a disaster, though at least it can field a full team of fully evolved pokemon.
5:47 I am concerned at this Latias' nickname
I love the name scheme of that first steel team! All named after a metal album!
I literally don't play or like Pokémon nor do I ever watch Pokémon, yet I still got this video on my recommended and watched it for some reason.
Great channel
The Pokemon Reborn OST cut activated me like a sleeper agent
Love the new music choices bro. Keep up the good work!
Finally, music that is not the sootopolis city theme.
I though he was gonna talk about Teleport on slowbro
I mained fighting in gen 6 for some time, and it was great! Lawless league representing
I also did, I tried the 7th gen, but got absolutely destroyed
Correction for those who don’t know: Defog did exist. It just didn’t have the much better effect that it has now so it wasn’t worth acknowledging from a competitive standpoint.
Something that always bothered me is that when X and Y were released, moves which previously had 95 base power (Tbolt, Fthrower and Surf) had their numbers nerfed to 90 yet Moonblast was released with 95 base power. Talk about favoritism, lol. It's annoying that a Pokèmon, to be good, either has insane stats or is a Water/Steel/Fairy/Flying type. Wish gamefreak knew what they're doing but clearly it's not the case
Edit: forgot that ground is also among the deus ex machina types
It's 5 AM, why the hell am I watching this video instead of sleeping, like what the fuck is wrong with me, I have school tomorrow.
Glad to see mega gallade getting some appreciation
Wild to see fighting be complete ass in every other format as an LC player bc fighting type goes nuts in LC
I feel like if there were a good Electric-Fighting and Ground-Fighting pokemon that would shake things up
Pawmot + Iron Hands, and Great Tusk, one has support (Revivial Blessing), the other has hazard removal (Rapid Spin)
Iron Hands doesn't bring much to the table to be honest, besides being a bulkier alternative to Pawmot but without Revival Blessing
Base-Game S/V really screws over 10/18 types in monotypes, and Fighting is no exception with the loss of Kommo-o, Cobalion, Buzzwole, and Keldeo
I wonder if mono fight could be good if dark urshifu and/or zamazenta gets unbanned (for only mono fighting and not mono dark)
Nice from paradisin' with the black album nicknames lol
Please tell me the background song, it's a banger!
oh wow lol the thumbnail is cool
So what exactly happened? Psychic, poison, water, and flying all got Regen mons that resists fighting
and the Tapus
"If i had a nickel for every time fighting types are unviable to use in a metagame I would have 2 nickles, wich is isn't much but it is funny that happened twice." - Dr. Heinz Doffenshmeirtz
Also them banning the dark Urshifu makes using Mono fighting even more difficult
Seems like the Fighting Type is going back to its Gen I roots
based freezai video
what if you unbanned marshadow, zamazenta and pheromosa for mono fighting? would it become strong again without being over powered?
It will be overpowered
Fighting type was really fun when Urshifu was free. Although iirc, Lando Incarnate was also running around and earth powering shit, so there were a lot of flying types too.
no pursuit makes ghosts and psychic really free so they can switch in and out against fighting too
is monotype dark good
I wonder how the introduction of Sneasler later on will help Fighting, if even at all.
Sneasler will make the Poison type good. Not really the fighting type
But wouldn’t Sneasler sort of be a slower yet bulkier Toxicroak and therefore another choice against Fairies against those that do not have Psychic coverage moves or are not Psychic/Fairy?
@@iantaakalla8180 Sneasler is actually faster and stronger than Toxicroak, it's also slightly specially bulkier but not that much
My Mono-Ice team is so glad mono fighting is not that popular. It's hard enough to deal with 1 close combat spammer when using Mono-Ice, let alone 5 or 6 of them.
Just use 6 frosslass, lol
Mono steel and fire laughing and ice usually has unbalanced def sp def, if ice have strong defense, sp defense is weak
Yo by any chance does anyone know what this song is called because it's a banger
Oh well, the close combat spam was fun while it lasted.
the black album mono steel team
How can you use double type pokemon in a monotype event
Still waiting for my Fire/Fairy type
Why did that guy have a dartrix in his mono-flying
A big thing I'd note is that it's impossible for a mono-fighting mon to be able to hit its resistances super effectively with coverage if it runs its stab. You run fighting stab, a rock move (for flying and bug), a ghost/dark move (for ghost and psychic), either ground/psychic (for poison) and steel/poison (for fairy). This requires five moves, and while this is a simplification, only bug as far as I'm aware shares this quality and grass has no mons with the coverage necessary. Yes, you don't always have to carry stab in monotype, but there are also annoying dual types (eg lando-T who isn't weak to rock), which further creates the problem that fighting really struggles to spam something offensively and sweep compared to a type like water or ground, which just need 3-4 coverage moves and they are generally fine. Fairy tipped the scale by adding even more needed coverage to a type that could handle its current coverage but was on the edge.
Also, I wouldn't put stock in perfect neutral coverage for sweepers (eg, Ghost coverage), a neutral coverage vs a stab resist of same base power only does about 33% difference in damage, which isn't a great upgrade, which I learned from my Autotomize, Belly Drum, Drain Punch, Shadow Claw Komo-o set, even if I could hit something neutrally with shadow claw, it just didn't do enough damage and I was probably better off drain punching for the extra health.
Torterra and Chesnaught can cover everything that Grass has a problem with, the problem is neither of them are in Gen 8................and even then only Chesnaught is coming back in Gen 9
can you link the background music ?
BTW, decided to challenge myself with mono Fighting in Showdown today, and for a type that is so bad combined with someone who has next to no experience in monotype, it did surprisingly well with about a 50/50 win rate. Granted, I did not run into mono Electric, mono Fairy, or Monopsychic. I did run into mono Flying once. Literally my first battle iirc.
I remember G5 fighting types they were bruuuutal.
All the good fighting mons are in ubers now.
Can you do video on Revelationmons .
I’m interested in the problems of the ghost monotype lol
Early gang 💪
Wake up babe Freezai posted
I still like it, in Nat dex mono, so many options means offence is unstoppable if tempo is in favor
I stopped paying close attention to competitive pokemon in gen6 and it's so disorienting hearing someone be like "did you know fighting used to be an S-Tier Type??" And my last frame of reference is competitive 5th gen so I'm like ah shit...the march of time got me again
Can you do a grass monotype analysis please ?
Why did we see a lot of Urshifu after he got released then?
Would banning some mons from certains types be a viable thing to do? Like for the example of Urshifu you commented at the end: banning it on Dark teams but leaving it legal on Fighting
I believe that's the case for some mons? I can't recall exactly which ones though, I might also be misremembering completely as I don't really play Showdown that often lmao so feel free to correct me
Now I wanna know how good fire and ghost are
Ngl the music in this one kept giving me anxiety, like am I battling the Unova Champion at a Rave or am I watching a video about the fall of Fighting types in Monotype??
Him talking about abilities at the beginning:
Me just trying to look at all of the Metallica songs the guy named his Pokémon: