Sketch can't even work on it anymore and Mythicals have never been allowed in official tournaments. so iono it just seems Game Freak is just hating on Dark Void for no reason
gen 6 darkrai holds a special, yet stupid place in my heart. my buddy was so proud of his anything goes team, which was 6 shiny darkrai, all with the moveset of dark void, nightmare, dream eater, and dark pulse. so i made the funniest counter team i could think of: six sweet veil swirlix with max spdef investment. he forfeited, like, 2 turns in. ah, to be 12 years old playing pokemon showdown with your friends.
I remember having a match against a random player in Gen 6, his all Ubers team vs my OU+M!Lucario. The last turn was Lucario vs Darkrai. The hype when Lucario woke up, outsped, and CC'd Darkrai for the win was amazing
A pokemon could get no buff but still be better in a different gens metagame at times, Tapu Lele for example lost Hidden Power and had it's terrain nerfed but was still better in Gen 8 cause it's most consistent check Magearna got banned leaving OU without a viable Steel/Fairy type. Also one of the reasons Weavile is so terrifying in Gen 8.
@@SakhotGamer pretty sure he also does random battles, but I’m not too sure how high he is on ladder bc I never really watch twitch streams. Saying he isn’t good at the game is objectively false, the real question is HOW good is he? Would see if I can check, but its 3am as of now and I’m feeling lazy.
still baffled that gamefreak put a redundant nerf on dark void when they only needed to prevent smeargle from using it. if anything it should be at least 60%(hypnosis accuracy)
I think they should've just reduced its accuracy when targeting multiple opponents like how spread moves get reduced base power. Then it could've had the original 80% in single battles but 50% in double battles.
@@BaniniThePanini from a programming perspective yes it could be done, but there aren't really any spread moves in the game that get their accuracy reduced for targeting multiple opponents... including status moves like growl... it's a good idea though... 80% sleep would make darkrai viable, or maybe even broken in vgc now that mythicals are allowed, but 50% is a nice compromise to be able to use it in singles and not broken in doubles
@@reun1clus I believe every AoE move gets a damage nerf if it hits multiple opponents at once. Might be my bad, though. Besides, it doesn't matter much, only makes the move more special, I guess?
I remember when I played Platinum as a kid, I used Dark Void Darkrai to win most games, admittedly against AI. I was awful at strategising and usually went for the most powerful moves regardless of how suited they were for the pokemon, but I ended up finding that Dark Void, Nightmare, Dream Eater Darkrai would beat almost everything
Especially important in earlier gens; in gen 1, being put to sleep isn't that bad because it means Body Slam, one of the most popular moves of the gen, won't do anything but damage. So no Para means no speed drop or chance to fail.
I mean he says himself in the video that sleep wasn't as bad in earlier generations (also you're definitely thinking of freeze, in gen 1 freeze is permanent until you're hit by a fire move)
I remember seeing when you had like 18% of your viewers being subbed. I know you don't have a huge view count, but I'm still super happy for you. Keep it up! Love the content
Technically thats bad for a channel. It means he's only attracting the same audience and drawing a smalled number of new people to watch. It's actually a sign of the start of a decline of a channel.
One of my favorite ways to counter lead darkrai in gen 6 ubers was mega mewtwo y, since it has insomnia and aura sphere is a good roll to kill, plus it lives an unboosted dark pulse
Gamefreak: Dark void is so overpowered we need to nerf it! We will make it so that darkrai can only use it so that smeargle can no longer abuse it in VGC Darkrai: so I can use it like always? Gamefreak: mmmmmm no
Klefkis name is "Keys for MM" if anyone is wondering. edit:Kangashkan is "Mother and daughter", Arceus-rock is named just "Rock", Groudon is "Earthling"
Honestly sleep (and freeze aswell) should be fully reworked. Para, Toxic and Burn are all generally well balanced, especially Burn and Toxic but sleep and freeze are just a dice roll that has way too high an impact for how luck based it is. I'd rather see freeze become the special equivalent to Burn, dealing damage and lowering Sp.Atk instead of Phy.Atk Sleep is harder but it could range from making the sleep turns fixed at 2 or making its a version of para that lowers defense instead of speed and has the same 25% chance to to full sleep for a turn
So my response to luck is "when it gets *overcentralizing* is when it deserves a ban". In recent history, I remember seeing the King's Rock/Focus Band/etc ban get passed around and...it confused me. The worst thing I could think of *in practice* was SS Cloyster abusing a higher than usual flinch rate with King's Rock + 5 hit moves, which while pretty stupid... ehhh Serene Grace Iron Head exists so not awful. But in this instance I was like "why are these items getting banned" It's not even a matter of "is it bad for the game" because undeniably these items that rely exclusively on luck *are*, it's moreso that I don't have a problem with them because they aren't overcentralizing and unless someone in high ladder wants to go to Vegas, they never will be either. 10% is a chance you can't bank on in every game, it's simply not worth it. Maybe it makes fighting stall a bit worse since games are longer and chances have theoretically more time to proc? But that's where my argument stands on other luck-related shenanigans in Pokemon. Evasion is very obviously banned because it would be overcentralizing if it still existed, BP chain teams required just a little bit of luck to auto-win back in the day, etc. etc. Those all make sense, because not only are they bad for the game, they are also stupid common if the strategy was let loose. Darkrai is kinda on that razor's edge where it's hard to tell if it's to a point of too much, but overall I think he's just as bad as any Pokemon that can get Sleep for free in terms of the fundamental issue. He just abuses it more than any other Pokemon can. I also haven't played enough Gen 6 Ubers to give a definitive opinion
@@kirbymontrey3897 Well like I said though, we have 60% chances through things like Jirachi - though they aren't as obviously powerful with each hit as a Smash'd Cloyster is
@@WishMakers the difference is that jirachi cant boost atk and speed. not to mention steel is already a weak offensive typing and iron head is only 80 BP and gets shut down by helmet and iron barbs. comparatively cloyster can boost both atk and speed by 2 stages, has two 125 bp moves on strong offensive typings neither of which can be cheesed by helmets jirachi in OU is very easy to play around, kings rock cloyster was not
I always felt like Dark Void should have just been a damage dealing move with a 30% chance to sleep, like a sleep version of body slam, scald, or rock slide.
To be fair ive always 30% chance to X moves should have been 25% chance to X as well. But it is what it is i suppose, and only so many changes could happen without it starting to feel like a completely different game.
The thing about Dark Void now that Smeargle cant learn it is that it can return to being 80 accuracy. Its happened in PLA, where its 90 instead of 80, so its obvious Gamefreak is getting over how broken it was and noticed it was just Smeargle that was the problem, not Dark Void. Hopefully itll be re-buffed to its original accuracy in SV or another future game so Darkrai can be viable again, whether the power creep forces it into OU or it manages to stay in Ubers
Most sleep moves were given higher accuracy in PLA, and the Sleep condition was replaced by a new status condition called "Drowsy", which lowers the Pokemon's defenses, and only occasionally prevents them from moving (More like Paralysis).
The Sleep status in competitive pokemon (outside of gen 2/3 because of how many good Rest Talk sets there are) is kinda volatile and easy to take advantage of, but Darkrai specifically is an exceptionally good pokemon to take advantage of Sleep. For example, a move like Spore is inarguably more "broken" but it requires a switch, setup, and/or Breloom to get the most out of it, which virtually guarantees you can burn at least one turn of sleep, and since Spore doesn't affect Grass-type pokemon, it even has some innate counterplay. Darkrai and Dark Void, on the other hand, guarantees you take 8% just for existing while sleeping, and Darkrai has good setup moves on top of that. I don't think Darkrai should be banned, just because if you see one you KNOW it will try to inflict you with sleep, but it being able to take advantage of either outcome makes it pretty annoying to counter even when you know it is coming.
You don't even know it's going to try putting you to sleep. Maybe it will set up a Nasty Plot or a Substitute to outmanouevre your counterplay to Dark Void.
I think sleep as a mechanic is fine ingame thinking pokemon rpg wise. However it always brings problems in competitive since gen 1 where sleep clause was alredy a thing. Even on metagames where sleep is supposed to be in check, it is still pretty powerful (look at Jynx dominance in GSC and lovely kiss snorlax being a great set). in doubles gf made mechanics like electric terrain and introduced items like safety googles but they still had to nerf dark void. And they were so overkill doing so that it shows that it was a big issue. And im not sure sleep clause is a good enough solution. Unless you have a dedicated slep talker, you are basically playing 5v6 and giving a turn away unless you get lucky with a quick wake up or a miss. A good solution could be to buff certain types making them more resiliant to sleep, like a default Early Bird. But im not sure what is the best type that fits that niche tematic and balance wise (It makes no sense to give sleep resiliance bufff to dark types due to balance nor to ice types due to thematic reasons). Ofc grass types have certain resiliance alredy thanks to the powder immunity, but it might be a good idea to make psychic types immune to hypnosis for example.
I feel like this exact thing is why I gave up on trying to have fun with Showdown. It's what you might call the Ultra Beast or Stealth Rock effect. The thing in question is so, *so* very close to being overpowered- but because it just barely misses the mark, it's not considered banworthy- no matter how overcentralizing or uncompetitive it might be. So these things occupy that horrible sweet spot where they sap all the fun out of the experience for people like myself- but they're not overpowered enough for the powers that be to ban them, so they stay- no matter how it affects the playerbase. To be honest, I don't really know just how overcentralizing Stealth Rock or Ultra Beasts really were- but that's in part because I was never allowed to experience a game *without* them, so I couldn't exactly test it out. At this point, all I know for sure is that they were too annoying for me. Now I exclusively play romhacks, and develop my own. PvE was always more fun to me anyway.
Unrelated to this topic, but I really want to hear why you think meinfoo isn’t banned from LC. If it’s a must pick with no real counters then I think it’s a problem, at least it was last time I played the tier.
With the direction Smogon is going, I am expecting sleep to get banned altogether at some point, and further down the line ALL RNG from the game in general from Thunder Wave to even moves with secondary effect chances. If you want to be consistent with your arguments, if you ban sleep then you need to ban things like paralysis too because it can also cause you to lose a game just purely on time.
Game Freak nerfed to the ground a cool signature move that suited the original user (A MYTHICAL POKÉMON btw) perfectly only because Smeargle ran wild in VGC but somehow giving a non-legendary ice monke a built-in Choice Band is ok
As annoying as RNG can be, Dark Void has the potential to backfire. It can miss and the opponent might only sleep for one turn. If we have to live with other RNG mechanics (para, confuse, low accuracy), then this is fine.
I'm a huge Mega Mewtwo Y fan. So whenever I saw the opposing team have a Darkrai or smeargle, I knew they would most likely lead with it. I'd counter lead with my Mewtwo, mega evolve to the insomnia ability, and see the opponent get frustrated by the failed dark void lmao Eventually got to top 30 in Gen6 Ubers with my team 😁😁
That's something I noted too. I'm kind of surprised mm2y's direct ability to counter didn't lessen the impact darkrai seems to have had. Is it just not a popular mega? It's pretty damn powerful and unless it's banned to ag like mega ray I'd be surprised if it's not used often...
@@moronribbons5774 it was a good mega with a scary offensive prowess. But Yveltal was brokenly strong, and other megas like Kangaskhan usually took the mega slot instead
@@moronribbons5774 4 moveslot syndrome was mewtwo's biggest weakness. It had the moves to cover anything, but there were always a few types that it couldn't fit into it's set. If mewtwo was given moonblast and nasty plot that generation however, then 4 moveslot syndrome wouldn't have been as much of a handicap. This is because moonblast covers for both ice and fighting type moves (super effective against the dark and dragon types). Then the all encompassing moveset for mewtwo wouldve been nasty plot, psystrike, fireblast, and moonblast for unstoppable coverage
In Legend Arceus they actually buffed Dark Void to 90% accuracy, but that was because they changed the Sleeping mechanic entirely to Drowsy, which is basically getting Paralyzed, but instead of lowering the speed it increases the damage taken while being Drowzy by 50%.
This is kind of funny to me, because I had a friend in middle school who absolutely loved using Darkrai and I found it super frustrating to fight its Dark Void without Sleep Clause, but my go-to mega just so happened to be Mega Diancie, which is one of the best counters to Dark Void. So I would just Mega Evolve Diancie as soon as I could and swap it in whenever he would try to bring in Darkrai, and because we didn't have very complex strategies, it almost always worked. It's a big part of why Mega Diancie is one of my favorite Megas.
My favourite darkrai was wide lense & teamed with victini - before down grade 96% accuracy and in my instance I never got a miss - paired with Dark Pulse, Thunderbolt Dream Eater, and ofcourse Dark Void. max IV, EV ( spA and speed rest in HP) then a helping hand pokemon for rest of team had 100% success. Non competitive level, when people didn't know what to do with a highly accurate, high power, fast as possible darkrai who had stab and coverage always sleep opponents in double or single..
I kind of have to wonder why people hate the luck surrounding DV here so much considering basically every other aspect of the game is as much of a slot machine roulette as this. Inaccurate attacks, critical hits, effect move durations, etc... its legitimately impossible to have a game not influenced by luck anyways, so I dont see why darkrai taking advantage of a synergizing kit that is largely influenced by that is any worse than other kits that synergize. I'm especially surprised it's gen 6 in particular that gets the worst note for it since mm2y exists and has insomnia, aura sphere, and outspeeds with natural speeds along with being great for continuing to sweep after. It probably isn't as good as I'm picturing there or there would be some other reason to not pull that, I'm not the most versed in pokemon comp, but for all purpose there it seems like an excellent new counter among other methods. But like every status kit I guess gen 7 would kick its nads anyways, which I still assume was because of battle royales, but...
Hot take here: My opinion on luck based strategy is - if it's already in the game, it's fair game. If you don't like Minimize Clefable, get over it. Don't get me wrong, I hate going against Minimize Clefable, but I still accept that it's a part of the game, and I have to try to overcome it. That said, I do enjoy using some luck based strategies, such as Baton Passing Attack, Speed, and Evasion onto a Pokémon like Rhyperior, and watch it tear things to pieces. It's also fun to watch how some people try and work around my strategies, which makes matches more interesting imo.
It may be "fair", but is it fun? The ruleset is supposed to make the game more mechanically deep to make the game fun. Every team needs an answer for Pokemon with Moody/Baton Pass/Fast sleep inducer without Moody clause/Baton Pass clause/Sleep clause. An instant loss against a strategy that usually never loses otherwise makes the game less fun to play for the majority of the player base. After all, if your team can't beat a Baton Pass team, then you'll probably forfeit as soon as you see one. That doesn't mean that Baton Pass cannot be fun to have in a metagame -- just that it isn't popular.
Something to note is how luck strategies depend on the environment, that is, what ranking system you are competing in. It's something that's a little more obvious in other games such as Smash Bros, but if you compete in bracket-style tournaments, you want consistent results. You need to keep winning and winning, and thus you can't let a bad matchup or a bad luck roll break your winning spree. Therefore, characters that have mostly good matchups and don't rely on luck or jank to win are the best characters. You need characters that have consistent combos and clean kill setups. So characters like Hero that rely on luck mechanics, characters like Shiek that can combo hard but struggle to end stocks, or characters like Little Mac that have very harsh bad matchups are all considered lower tier. However, when you go online with the GSP ranking, the situation is a bit different. Losing a couple fights isn't too much of a deal, you can just go win other fights. What matters is more your win ratio. So getting higher rating with luck characters is actually easier, since you can grab "free wins". It's the same thing in Pokemon. In Showdown, strategies that rely on luck, both on the RNG side and the matchup side, are more popular since you just need a good win ratio, but in VGC tournaments, you don't really see these teams around as much. Instead, you see more balanced teams that are made to be able to win against any matchup without relying too much on luck.
I was honestly surprised you would say it's more controversial in competitive gen 6 and not as much in gen 5 and 4. Reason being the introduction of fairies in gen 6 made dark pulse and focus blast no longer get close to perfect neutral coverage (besides Toxicroak and Heracross which aren't used in ubers in gens 4 and 5 anyways), which means darkrai suffers a bit more from 4MSS. No sludge bomb, Xerneas and Fairy Arceus kill you, no focus blast, powerful dark and/or fighting types can take you on, and no thunder, Kyogre, Yveltal, and Ho-Oh can threaten you. But you can't have all at once. But without fairies in gens 4-5, dark void + nasty plot + dark pulse + focus blast is close to perfect for a special sweeper like Darkrai.
If there is zero luck, then you can theoretically build an AI that will know exactly what move you should do and that just seems too mechanical and boring.
I'm going insane, can anyone explain how stock pile sharply raises drifblims stats instead of just raising them by one stage, I dont see any simple users and its evasion is raised normally by minimize so why is it just stock piles effects that are doubled?
Darkrai or DV Smeargle in triples was a fucking menace. If you didn't have a Prankster pokemon to Taunt it you pretty much lost the battle automatically.
the problem with the darkrai controversy is that its not dark void or even the pokemon itself. its sleep. pokemon is an rpg, one with more luck than any other rpg, its not competitive just on the outset, and should not be made so. i like competitive pokemon, but each time a ban happens related to luck you stray further and further from that rpg feel that really makes pokemon unique as a game. like if i just had a pokemon that was faster than all of ubers (or at least most of it) with spore that group that wants darkrai baned, would want that theoretical pokemon banned too (especially since pokemon in lower tiers have moved up or have been banned for less) its just sleep being a status, but this can then be said for any other status, para-hax, burn chances, freeze happening off an ice beam, luck everywhere that is uncompetitive, but its an rpg, it was always that way. and if people want to ban darkrai for rpg mechanics, that is not even a 100% chance like spore, maybe they should play a different turn based competitive game, pokemon is not for them
imo pokemon is more about luck than strategy. my luck is so bad its incredible i miss a rock slide and my opponent (im not lying) doesnt get full paralyzed for 8 turns in a row.
If it is a luck issue, wouldn't that mean you should ban rock slide in doubles? 30% flinch chance is huge, and hits both targets. Sarcasm aside, luck is part of the game. If a player wants to remove luck from the game, they can play something else instead, like chess which has no luck involved. Yes, Darkrai has a lot of luck involved in how to beat it, but that is true of crits and 95% accurate moves and flinch chances and para and so on, it is a bad faith argument to say "ban this pokemon because I can't consistently beat it"
One thing to note is that running darkest can cause huge opportunity cost. While letting darkest set up is potentially devastating, it is just as easy for darkrai to let something set up as well once it darkvoids. Also if the opponent can force out darkrai once after it put something to sleep, it’s now useless. Without a nasty plot it doesn’t hit hard enough, and if it tries to switch into a move it’s pretty much guaranteed to die. Again, it’s a great Pokémon, in the right circumstances, but those circumstances are never guaranteed, meaning it has the possibility to be dead weight.
To summarize, In my opinion darkrai is a gimmick Pokémon whose gimmick just to happens to be an S tier strategy (because ofc it is in Pokémon) if that makes sense
"In earlier generations, getting put to sleep isn't as big a deal because your time is less valuable" Proceeds to show RBY OU where sleep is incredibly strong since it can last up to 7 turns and Pokémon cannot act on the turn they wake up.
Yeah, but there's more a of a breathing room around these kinds of situations, since the games last longer and you're never in danger of getting blasted in a single turn. Sleep is still the best status in the game, but if you're good enough, you can play accordingly and find chances to burn turns little by little - plus, you usually never sleep for 6 turns straight unless severely unlucky. Edit: Assuming you don't let something like your Tauros eat the sleep with their face, anyway, which is pretty hard to do.
tbf it was banned in the last week before the tiers were permanently locked, so Im not completely sure it deserves the Ubers spot... but sure it was annoying to deal with
Maybe if they take a hint from PLA and change Sleep status to Drowsy, we can see Dark Void coming back along with some accuracy increases on all those sleep-inducing moves while still being fair competitively.
Sleep is controversial, sure, but can we take a look at Gen 1 Thunder Wave for a second? Gen 1 specifically because not only was it not nerfed yet, but the only way to block it is Rhydon, who loses to Starmie and Exeggutor and Victreebel (yes I know the Grass-Types use Stun Spore instead, but still)
I think its another case of top players/mods losing to luck based strategies and getting mad. Like when king's rock was banned. They feel like they are the better player and should always win against a "lesser" skill one
When it comes to luck based strategies: Every battle can be won or lost with luck turning the tide, but luck only lasts so long. If your strategy is only luck based that means strategies that are consistent will win out more often so your rank is lower overall. If a luck based strategy wins more than your constant strategy than this simply means it is a viable strategy that isn't only luck involved but can regularly win battles. Instead of crying over the one time you lost because someone landed a crit or a low accuracy move, you should spend your time focusing on making yourself as good as you can so you will win more often than these luck based teams. This is not something to ban. Just "git gud" so you don't lose as often and a random loss from luck can be just something to laugh at.
Not much of a competitive pokemon player, but the discussion around variance that is manageable enough on a strategy that's just fine, but not exceptional is always going to be a sticking point in any game. If you're getting randomed out by a tactic that isn't strong enough to be top-level competitive, but can just show up and roulette wheel you at the wrong time, it doesn't matter that it's not that great. If it's just weak enough to catch the most competitive edge of players out from time to time because they don't see value in preparing for it, that makes it even more obnoxious. If it ever gets good enough to get attention, the counterpicks work well enough to, over many games, show that it isn't competitive. That makes losing to it even more frustrating. It's not quite worth preparing for, it can random you even if you're prepared, and it's not busted enough to get banned out? Yeah, I'd hate it too.
Not in gen 6 but when i played SSHG with my friends they used to spam darkrai/hacked dark void pokemon and I countered them with flameorb/guts pokemon like Machamp or hearcross And with his high SpD bulk toxicorb flareon also worked fine Not a competitive ambient tho
Dark Void died for Smeargle's sins.
Lol A1 comment
Jesus died for your sins, and He rose again from the dead. His death is sufficient to pay for your sins if you will put your faith in Him.
Even though making it impossible for Smeargle to use it was enough they wrecked the move
@@JonCChan i think you'll find Darkrai did all that
Sketch can't even work on it anymore and Mythicals have never been allowed in official tournaments. so iono it just seems Game Freak is just hating on Dark Void for no reason
gen 6 darkrai holds a special, yet stupid place in my heart. my buddy was so proud of his anything goes team, which was 6 shiny darkrai, all with the moveset of dark void, nightmare, dream eater, and dark pulse. so i made the funniest counter team i could think of: six sweet veil swirlix with max spdef investment. he forfeited, like, 2 turns in. ah, to be 12 years old playing pokemon showdown with your friends.
I remember having a match against a random player in Gen 6, his all Ubers team vs my OU+M!Lucario. The last turn was Lucario vs Darkrai. The hype when Lucario woke up, outsped, and CC'd Darkrai for the win was amazing
Yeah, you can only do stuff like that with friends.
What the FUCK is a "swirlix" that sounds so corny hahaha must be from one of the newer dog shit pokemon games. Garbage
Another note is that Gen 6 is when support Arceus became popular, which is an easy opportunity for Darkrai to get free turns.
Ironic isn't it
A pokemon could get no buff but still be better in a different gens metagame at times, Tapu Lele for example lost Hidden Power and had it's terrain nerfed but was still better in Gen 8 cause it's most consistent check Magearna got banned leaving OU without a viable Steel/Fairy type. Also one of the reasons Weavile is so terrifying in Gen 8.
@@xy394 weavile is s tier somehow in limited Gen Eigth dex lol
What the fuck is a support arceus?? Man the new pokemom games are retarded
This is the best Pokémon content on TH-cam. No intro. No filler. No BS. Just quality content from start to finish.
“Amazing, every word of what you just said... was wrong.”
i think pokemon challenges is also amazing
@@Kakashilookinguy that guy just talks bs about how to cheese the ai of pokemon games, he probably can't even do competitive on the 1100s
@@SakhotGamer wdym have you watched the emerald kaizo video?
@@SakhotGamer pretty sure he also does random battles, but I’m not too sure how high he is on ladder bc I never really watch twitch streams. Saying he isn’t good at the game is objectively false, the real question is HOW good is he?
Would see if I can check, but its 3am as of now and I’m feeling lazy.
still baffled that gamefreak put a redundant nerf on dark void when they only needed to prevent smeargle from using it. if anything it should be at least 60%(hypnosis accuracy)
Well the whole point of the move is that it hits both opponents, so the odds of it working on at least one of them is still decent.
I think they should've just reduced its accuracy when targeting multiple opponents like how spread moves get reduced base power.
Then it could've had the original 80% in single battles but 50% in double battles.
@@BaniniThePanini from a programming perspective yes it could be done, but there aren't really any spread moves in the game that get their accuracy reduced for targeting multiple opponents... including status moves like growl...
it's a good idea though... 80% sleep would make darkrai viable, or maybe even broken in vgc now that mythicals are allowed, but 50% is a nice compromise to be able to use it in singles and not broken in doubles
@@reun1clus I believe every AoE move gets a damage nerf if it hits multiple opponents at once. Might be my bad, though.
Besides, it doesn't matter much, only makes the move more special, I guess?
@@penitente3337 yea it does... there is a 25% damage nerf, but not accuracy nerf...
I remember when I played Platinum as a kid, I used Dark Void Darkrai to win most games, admittedly against AI. I was awful at strategising and usually went for the most powerful moves regardless of how suited they were for the pokemon, but I ended up finding that Dark Void, Nightmare, Dream Eater Darkrai would beat almost everything
Toxic gen 4 move pool 😵💫😮💨
Until Insomnia/Vital Spirit mons say hello
@@GIR177never bothered buying or playing any pokemon games after black and white, they're all dog shit
Darkrai is the most tragic uber
No thats zamazenta
@@maps2853 at least zamazenta crown is somewhat viable. Darkrai in gen 7 is just ass
@Yummy Spaghetti Noodles I agree it below pu....
@Yummy Spaghetti Noodles regigigas isn't uber
@Yummy Spaghetti Noodles not all legendaries are ubers and not all ubers are legendaries
Especially important in earlier gens; in gen 1, being put to sleep isn't that bad because it means Body Slam, one of the most popular moves of the gen, won't do anything but damage. So no Para means no speed drop or chance to fail.
Pretty sure gen 1 sleep is essentially a KO though considering the mechanics. Maybe im confusing it w freeze though.
Yea you can’t even move on the turn you wake up? Sleep was even more OP in Gen 1.
I mean he says himself in the video that sleep wasn't as bad in earlier generations (also you're definitely thinking of freeze, in gen 1 freeze is permanent until you're hit by a fire move)
@@yep9462 yeah you're thinking of freeze, the only way to thaw out in gen 1 is to get hit by haze or a fire move that can inflict burn
Just to clarify, you just said never being able to move or use your turn isnt that bad because you wont be paralyzed?
I remember seeing when you had like 18% of your viewers being subbed. I know you don't have a huge view count, but I'm still super happy for you. Keep it up! Love the content
Technically thats bad for a channel. It means he's only attracting the same audience and drawing a smalled number of new people to watch. It's actually a sign of the start of a decline of a channel.
That gen 1 Gengar back sprite is a work of art
As always, straightforward content with no long, useless intros. Thanks.
Also in gen 5 ubers scarf genesect is literally second best mon and can u-turn on darkrai and possibly KO it.
Yeah and then in gen 6 Primal Groudon is on like 99% of teams and Genesect is worthless as a result
@@alexpotts6520 yeah I already know that
Oh boy freezai video at midnight. Guess im not sleeping for another 10 minutes
I remember in triples Darkrai was stupid broken because dark void hits all three opponents. All your team synergy can be neutered in one move
One of my favorite ways to counter lead darkrai in gen 6 ubers was mega mewtwo y, since it has insomnia and aura sphere is a good roll to kill, plus it lives an unboosted dark pulse
Gamefreak: Dark void is so overpowered we need to nerf it! We will make it so that darkrai can only use it so that smeargle can no longer abuse it in VGC
Darkrai: so I can use it like always?
Gamefreak: mmmmmm no
Your channel stats are so cool to see grow. I subbed what felt like a year ago. Wish the best for you
I'm curious to see in doubles whether someone makes Mega Pidgeot mimic Dark Void and lets No Guard do the rest.
Dark Void is now hard coded to fail if it isn't being used by Darkrai though.
@@TheWanderingNight not in gen 6
Funny coincidence that you made this video just now. I just started shiny hunting Darkrai in Brilliant Diamond. Keep up the awesome content!
detecting freezai's bias in this particular case
Klefkis name is "Keys for MM" if anyone is wondering.
edit:Kangashkan is "Mother and daughter", Arceus-rock is named just "Rock", Groudon is "Earthling"
what language was that guy using on showdown ?
@@eyecontrol4900 Greek
Honestly sleep (and freeze aswell) should be fully reworked. Para, Toxic and Burn are all generally well balanced, especially Burn and Toxic but sleep and freeze are just a dice roll that has way too high an impact for how luck based it is.
I'd rather see freeze become the special equivalent to Burn, dealing damage and lowering Sp.Atk instead of Phy.Atk
Sleep is harder but it could range from making the sleep turns fixed at 2 or making its a version of para that lowers defense instead of speed and has the same 25% chance to to full sleep for a turn
Funny that you've essentially described PLA's Frostbite and Drowsy statuses that everyone wants in the main series, without actually mentioning them.
That's one of the best subscribe ratios I've ever seen. It really does correlate with quality
I like the subscribe call to action when he just says he's excited to see the growth :)
So my response to luck is "when it gets *overcentralizing* is when it deserves a ban".
In recent history, I remember seeing the King's Rock/Focus Band/etc ban get passed around and...it confused me.
The worst thing I could think of *in practice* was SS Cloyster abusing a higher than usual flinch rate with King's Rock + 5 hit moves, which while pretty stupid... ehhh Serene Grace Iron Head exists so not awful. But in this instance I was like "why are these items getting banned"
It's not even a matter of "is it bad for the game" because undeniably these items that rely exclusively on luck *are*, it's moreso that I don't have a problem with them because they aren't overcentralizing and unless someone in high ladder wants to go to Vegas, they never will be either. 10% is a chance you can't bank on in every game, it's simply not worth it. Maybe it makes fighting stall a bit worse since games are longer and chances have theoretically more time to proc?
But that's where my argument stands on other luck-related shenanigans in Pokemon. Evasion is very obviously banned because it would be overcentralizing if it still existed, BP chain teams required just a little bit of luck to auto-win back in the day, etc. etc. Those all make sense, because not only are they bad for the game, they are also stupid common if the strategy was let loose. Darkrai is kinda on that razor's edge where it's hard to tell if it's to a point of too much, but overall I think he's just as bad as any Pokemon that can get Sleep for free in terms of the fundamental issue. He just abuses it more than any other Pokemon can. I also haven't played enough Gen 6 Ubers to give a definitive opinion
Kings rock wasn't banned cause of 10%, it was banned cause of roughly 40% on cloyster, which allowed it to hax through it's checks and was very cancer
@@kirbymontrey3897 Well like I said though, we have 60% chances through things like Jirachi - though they aren't as obviously powerful with each hit as a Smash'd Cloyster is
@@WishMakers rachis damage output is significantly lower and you can still damage it with a rocky helmet tho, so its much more manageable
@@WishMakers the difference is that jirachi cant boost atk and speed. not to mention steel is already a weak offensive typing and iron head is only 80 BP and gets shut down by helmet and iron barbs. comparatively cloyster can boost both atk and speed by 2 stages, has two 125 bp moves on strong offensive typings neither of which can be cheesed by helmets
jirachi in OU is very easy to play around, kings rock cloyster was not
@@WishMakers And people in gen 4 OU seems fine with Jirachi despite being clearly overpowered.
I miss Darkrai. It's such a cool mon
Single players : oh darkrai is controversial.
Vgc players : ight imma head out.
I always felt like Dark Void should have just been a damage dealing move with a 30% chance to sleep, like a sleep version of body slam, scald, or rock slide.
somehow you found a way to make dark void even more annoying
To be fair ive always 30% chance to X moves should have been 25% chance to X as well. But it is what it is i suppose, and only so many changes could happen without it starting to feel like a completely different game.
so like relic song?
@@tatiannay2k better type
Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Endeavor
- Protect
- Toxic Spikes
really loved when Darkrai leads ran into this.
The thing about Dark Void now that Smeargle cant learn it is that it can return to being 80 accuracy. Its happened in PLA, where its 90 instead of 80, so its obvious Gamefreak is getting over how broken it was and noticed it was just Smeargle that was the problem, not Dark Void. Hopefully itll be re-buffed to its original accuracy in SV or another future game so Darkrai can be viable again, whether the power creep forces it into OU or it manages to stay in Ubers
Plus Sleep was changed to Drowsy in PLA, so who knows if that will carry over.
The very thought of Darkrai running around OU is hilarious
@@ultimatehope549 soon enough Deoxys Attack will be in OU thanks to Necro-Dusk and Ferro will become UU lol
drowsy is honestly even more luck based and uncompetitive than sleep
Most sleep moves were given higher accuracy in PLA, and the Sleep condition was replaced by a new status condition called "Drowsy", which lowers the Pokemon's defenses, and only occasionally prevents them from moving (More like Paralysis).
The Sleep status in competitive pokemon (outside of gen 2/3 because of how many good Rest Talk sets there are) is kinda volatile and easy to take advantage of, but Darkrai specifically is an exceptionally good pokemon to take advantage of Sleep. For example, a move like Spore is inarguably more "broken" but it requires a switch, setup, and/or Breloom to get the most out of it, which virtually guarantees you can burn at least one turn of sleep, and since Spore doesn't affect Grass-type pokemon, it even has some innate counterplay. Darkrai and Dark Void, on the other hand, guarantees you take 8% just for existing while sleeping, and Darkrai has good setup moves on top of that. I don't think Darkrai should be banned, just because if you see one you KNOW it will try to inflict you with sleep, but it being able to take advantage of either outcome makes it pretty annoying to counter even when you know it is coming.
You don't even know it's going to try putting you to sleep. Maybe it will set up a Nasty Plot or a Substitute to outmanouevre your counterplay to Dark Void.
I think sleep as a mechanic is fine ingame thinking pokemon rpg wise. However it always brings problems in competitive since gen 1 where sleep clause was alredy a thing.
Even on metagames where sleep is supposed to be in check, it is still pretty powerful (look at Jynx dominance in GSC and lovely kiss snorlax being a great set). in doubles gf made mechanics like electric terrain and introduced items like safety googles but they still had to nerf dark void. And they were so overkill doing so that it shows that it was a big issue.
And im not sure sleep clause is a good enough solution. Unless you have a dedicated slep talker, you are basically playing 5v6 and giving a turn away unless you get lucky with a quick wake up or a miss.
A good solution could be to buff certain types making them more resiliant to sleep, like a default Early Bird. But im not sure what is the best type that fits that niche tematic and balance wise (It makes no sense to give sleep resiliance bufff to dark types due to balance nor to ice types due to thematic reasons). Ofc grass types have certain resiliance alredy thanks to the powder immunity, but it might be a good idea to make psychic types immune to hypnosis for example.
You could say Darkrai was a *nightmare* to deal with~
I feel like this exact thing is why I gave up on trying to have fun with Showdown.
It's what you might call the Ultra Beast or Stealth Rock effect. The thing in question is so, *so* very close to being overpowered- but because it just barely misses the mark, it's not considered banworthy- no matter how overcentralizing or uncompetitive it might be.
So these things occupy that horrible sweet spot where they sap all the fun out of the experience for people like myself- but they're not overpowered enough for the powers that be to ban them, so they stay- no matter how it affects the playerbase.
To be honest, I don't really know just how overcentralizing Stealth Rock or Ultra Beasts really were- but that's in part because I was never allowed to experience a game *without* them, so I couldn't exactly test it out. At this point, all I know for sure is that they were too annoying for me.
Now I exclusively play romhacks, and develop my own. PvE was always more fun to me anyway.
It's 2024 and the gen 9 council, arguably with the inclusion of Darkrai, is discussing sleep in it's entirety and the sleep clause mod.
"How do you make a fun & fair DV Darkrai?" Well, GF may have answered it for you - you don't.
I remember back when dark void was dropped to 50% accuracy, but was still allowed I used gravity to increase dark voids accuracy.
Unrelated to this topic, but I really want to hear why you think meinfoo isn’t banned from LC. If it’s a must pick with no real counters then I think it’s a problem, at least it was last time I played the tier.
I think it was the Gen 2 Snorlax reason, but I am genuinely curious myself.
I just wished Darkrai had it's own OP Signature Move and didn't copied Smeargles Dark Void one!
With the direction Smogon is going, I am expecting sleep to get banned altogether at some point, and further down the line ALL RNG from the game in general from Thunder Wave to even moves with secondary effect chances.
If you want to be consistent with your arguments, if you ban sleep then you need to ban things like paralysis too because it can also cause you to lose a game just purely on time.
Game Freak nerfed to the ground a cool signature move that suited the original user (A MYTHICAL POKÉMON btw) perfectly only because Smeargle ran wild in VGC but somehow giving a non-legendary ice monke a built-in Choice Band is ok
As annoying as RNG can be, Dark Void has the potential to backfire. It can miss and the opponent might only sleep for one turn. If we have to live with other RNG mechanics (para, confuse, low accuracy), then this is fine.
I'm a huge Mega Mewtwo Y fan. So whenever I saw the opposing team have a Darkrai or smeargle, I knew they would most likely lead with it. I'd counter lead with my Mewtwo, mega evolve to the insomnia ability, and see the opponent get frustrated by the failed dark void lmao
Eventually got to top 30 in Gen6 Ubers with my team 😁😁
That's something I noted too. I'm kind of surprised mm2y's direct ability to counter didn't lessen the impact darkrai seems to have had. Is it just not a popular mega? It's pretty damn powerful and unless it's banned to ag like mega ray I'd be surprised if it's not used often...
@@moronribbons5774 it was a good mega with a scary offensive prowess. But Yveltal was brokenly strong, and other megas like Kangaskhan usually took the mega slot instead
@@shooby117 Well that's disappointing. I would have thought thunder or ice beam could give it a decent chance at fighting back least lol
@@moronribbons5774 4 moveslot syndrome was mewtwo's biggest weakness. It had the moves to cover anything, but there were always a few types that it couldn't fit into it's set. If mewtwo was given moonblast and nasty plot that generation however, then 4 moveslot syndrome wouldn't have been as much of a handicap. This is because moonblast covers for both ice and fighting type moves (super effective against the dark and dragon types).
Then the all encompassing moveset for mewtwo wouldve been nasty plot, psystrike, fireblast, and moonblast for unstoppable coverage
Wide lens Hypnosis is gonna have to work for now
Dark Void really needs an accuracy buff (70-75% maybe), Terrain means Darkrai wouldn't be as dominant imo.
Dark terrain would be sick too 😳
In Legend Arceus they actually buffed Dark Void to 90% accuracy, but that was because they changed the Sleeping mechanic entirely to Drowsy, which is basically getting Paralyzed, but instead of lowering the speed it increases the damage taken while being Drowzy by 50%.
Darkrai gets dark void? I thought it was Smeargle's signature move in gen 6 /s
This is kind of funny to me, because I had a friend in middle school who absolutely loved using Darkrai and I found it super frustrating to fight its Dark Void without Sleep Clause, but my go-to mega just so happened to be Mega Diancie, which is one of the best counters to Dark Void. So I would just Mega Evolve Diancie as soon as I could and swap it in whenever he would try to bring in Darkrai, and because we didn't have very complex strategies, it almost always worked. It's a big part of why Mega Diancie is one of my favorite Megas.
My favourite darkrai was wide lense & teamed with victini - before down grade 96% accuracy and in my instance I never got a miss - paired with Dark Pulse, Thunderbolt Dream Eater, and ofcourse Dark Void. max IV, EV ( spA and speed rest in HP) then a helping hand pokemon for rest of team had 100% success. Non competitive level, when people didn't know what to do with a highly accurate, high power, fast as possible darkrai who had stab and coverage always sleep opponents in double or single..
I kind of have to wonder why people hate the luck surrounding DV here so much considering basically every other aspect of the game is as much of a slot machine roulette as this. Inaccurate attacks, critical hits, effect move durations, etc... its legitimately impossible to have a game not influenced by luck anyways, so I dont see why darkrai taking advantage of a synergizing kit that is largely influenced by that is any worse than other kits that synergize.
I'm especially surprised it's gen 6 in particular that gets the worst note for it since mm2y exists and has insomnia, aura sphere, and outspeeds with natural speeds along with being great for continuing to sweep after. It probably isn't as good as I'm picturing there or there would be some other reason to not pull that, I'm not the most versed in pokemon comp, but for all purpose there it seems like an excellent new counter among other methods.
But like every status kit I guess gen 7 would kick its nads anyways, which I still assume was because of battle royales, but...
Hot take here: My opinion on luck based strategy is - if it's already in the game, it's fair game. If you don't like Minimize Clefable, get over it.
Don't get me wrong, I hate going against Minimize Clefable, but I still accept that it's a part of the game, and I have to try to overcome it. That said, I do enjoy using some luck based strategies, such as Baton Passing Attack, Speed, and Evasion onto a Pokémon like Rhyperior, and watch it tear things to pieces. It's also fun to watch how some people try and work around my strategies, which makes matches more interesting imo.
It may be "fair", but is it fun? The ruleset is supposed to make the game more mechanically deep to make the game fun. Every team needs an answer for Pokemon with Moody/Baton Pass/Fast sleep inducer without Moody clause/Baton Pass clause/Sleep clause. An instant loss against a strategy that usually never loses otherwise makes the game less fun to play for the majority of the player base. After all, if your team can't beat a Baton Pass team, then you'll probably forfeit as soon as you see one.
That doesn't mean that Baton Pass cannot be fun to have in a metagame -- just that it isn't popular.
Something to note is how luck strategies depend on the environment, that is, what ranking system you are competing in. It's something that's a little more obvious in other games such as Smash Bros, but if you compete in bracket-style tournaments, you want consistent results. You need to keep winning and winning, and thus you can't let a bad matchup or a bad luck roll break your winning spree. Therefore, characters that have mostly good matchups and don't rely on luck or jank to win are the best characters. You need characters that have consistent combos and clean kill setups. So characters like Hero that rely on luck mechanics, characters like Shiek that can combo hard but struggle to end stocks, or characters like Little Mac that have very harsh bad matchups are all considered lower tier.
However, when you go online with the GSP ranking, the situation is a bit different. Losing a couple fights isn't too much of a deal, you can just go win other fights. What matters is more your win ratio. So getting higher rating with luck characters is actually easier, since you can grab "free wins".
It's the same thing in Pokemon. In Showdown, strategies that rely on luck, both on the RNG side and the matchup side, are more popular since you just need a good win ratio, but in VGC tournaments, you don't really see these teams around as much. Instead, you see more balanced teams that are made to be able to win against any matchup without relying too much on luck.
also new mic pog? it sounds good
Rip smeargle tho
wdym smeargle was the one that ruined darkrai
@@wheatum730 or was it actually Darkrai ruining smeargle cause of how good it was in gen 6 Ubers all along 😵😵😵
Smergal still gets spore, which is 100% accurate.
@@oatmongen4263 spore only affects one target
Wide lens smeagle. Miss you
I was honestly surprised you would say it's more controversial in competitive gen 6 and not as much in gen 5 and 4. Reason being the introduction of fairies in gen 6 made dark pulse and focus blast no longer get close to perfect neutral coverage (besides Toxicroak and Heracross which aren't used in ubers in gens 4 and 5 anyways), which means darkrai suffers a bit more from 4MSS. No sludge bomb, Xerneas and Fairy Arceus kill you, no focus blast, powerful dark and/or fighting types can take you on, and no thunder, Kyogre, Yveltal, and Ho-Oh can threaten you. But you can't have all at once. But without fairies in gens 4-5, dark void + nasty plot + dark pulse + focus blast is close to perfect for a special sweeper like Darkrai.
Meanwhile on other game you can strategize around sleep because attack will waking up sleeping target
If there is zero luck, then you can theoretically build an AI that will know exactly what move you should do and that just seems too mechanical and boring.
sleep just needs a rework imho, nothing too insane but maybe a fixed turn count? it's just too variance heavy even for pokemon
In gen 1 you can sleep for 7 turns
(me lying) oh yeah bet Honchkrow could switch into this
I'm going insane, can anyone explain how stock pile sharply raises drifblims stats instead of just raising them by one stage, I dont see any simple users and its evasion is raised normally by minimize so why is it just stock piles effects that are doubled?
Probably has Simple
Farfetch'd learns Simple Beam through breeding. That is probably how.
Smeargle abusing Dark Void is why it is now one of the worst signature moves ever.
Darkrai or DV Smeargle in triples was a fucking menace. If you didn't have a Prankster pokemon to Taunt it you pretty much lost the battle automatically.
Look at how they massacred my boy 😭
the problem with the darkrai controversy is that its not dark void or even the pokemon itself. its sleep. pokemon is an rpg, one with more luck than any other rpg, its not competitive just on the outset, and should not be made so. i like competitive pokemon, but each time a ban happens related to luck you stray further and further from that rpg feel that really makes pokemon unique as a game. like if i just had a pokemon that was faster than all of ubers (or at least most of it) with spore that group that wants darkrai baned, would want that theoretical pokemon banned too (especially since pokemon in lower tiers have moved up or have been banned for less) its just sleep being a status, but this can then be said for any other status, para-hax, burn chances, freeze happening off an ice beam, luck everywhere that is uncompetitive, but its an rpg, it was always that way. and if people want to ban darkrai for rpg mechanics, that is not even a 100% chance like spore, maybe they should play a different turn based competitive game, pokemon is not for them
Darkai is... dark.
imo pokemon is more about luck than strategy. my luck is so bad its incredible i miss a rock slide and my opponent (im not lying) doesnt get full paralyzed for 8 turns in a row.
If it is a luck issue, wouldn't that mean you should ban rock slide in doubles? 30% flinch chance is huge, and hits both targets. Sarcasm aside, luck is part of the game. If a player wants to remove luck from the game, they can play something else instead, like chess which has no luck involved. Yes, Darkrai has a lot of luck involved in how to beat it, but that is true of crits and 95% accurate moves and flinch chances and para and so on, it is a bad faith argument to say "ban this pokemon because I can't consistently beat it"
50%?! Madness
One thing to note is that running darkest can cause huge opportunity cost. While letting darkest set up is potentially devastating, it is just as easy for darkrai to let something set up as well once it darkvoids. Also if the opponent can force out darkrai once after it put something to sleep, it’s now useless. Without a nasty plot it doesn’t hit hard enough, and if it tries to switch into a move it’s pretty much guaranteed to die. Again, it’s a great Pokémon, in the right circumstances, but those circumstances are never guaranteed, meaning it has the possibility to be dead weight.
To summarize, In my opinion darkrai is a gimmick Pokémon whose gimmick just to happens to be an S tier strategy (because ofc it is in Pokémon) if that makes sense
"In earlier generations, getting put to sleep isn't as big a deal because your time is less valuable"
Proceeds to show RBY OU where sleep is incredibly strong since it can last up to 7 turns and Pokémon cannot act on the turn they wake up.
Yeah, but there's more a of a breathing room around these kinds of situations, since the games last longer and you're never in danger of getting blasted in a single turn.
Sleep is still the best status in the game, but if you're good enough, you can play accordingly and find chances to burn turns little by little - plus, you usually never sleep for 6 turns straight unless severely unlucky.
Edit: Assuming you don't let something like your Tauros eat the sleep with their face, anyway, which is pretty hard to do.
The mysterious m guy had hilarious names hahahaha. He named kangaskan mother and daughter in Greek kekw
hell yes I love ur videos
Obviously this is a singles channel but it’s also a spread move, which made Dark Void a huge problem in VGC.
banded mach punch with Lum berry, or mach punch sleeptalk
Don’t forget Dark Void hits both opponents
5:15 lol how do i get that dragonite holding a ferroseed as pfp in showdown like the monai guy?
Man Mega-Sableye was in ubers. That's nuts.
tbf it was banned in the last week before the tiers were permanently locked, so Im not completely sure it deserves the Ubers spot... but sure it was annoying to deal with
Darkrai is so cool :3
Also fix Dark Void accuracy ;-;
Maybe if they take a hint from PLA and change Sleep status to Drowsy, we can see Dark Void coming back along with some accuracy increases on all those sleep-inducing moves while still being fair competitively.
Sleep is controversial, sure, but can we take a look at Gen 1 Thunder Wave for a second? Gen 1 specifically because not only was it not nerfed yet, but the only way to block it is Rhydon, who loses to Starmie and Exeggutor and Victreebel (yes I know the Grass-Types use Stun Spore instead, but still)
If people followed the "its part of the game" mentality we would still have dynamax and moody.
gen 5 tiering council has been doing that for a while with all those "just adapt" lol... at least some changes are happening now
Why do you blackout the video timer in the thumbnail
I think its another case of top players/mods losing to luck based strategies and getting mad. Like when king's rock was banned. They feel like they are the better player and should always win against a "lesser" skill one
Κλειδιά για μμ, Γήινος, Πέτρα μμ, Μάνα και κόρη 😂
Darkrai walked so smargle can run
More reasons to hate Smeargle
When it comes to luck based strategies: Every battle can be won or lost with luck turning the tide, but luck only lasts so long.
If your strategy is only luck based that means strategies that are consistent will win out more often so your rank is lower overall.
If a luck based strategy wins more than your constant strategy than this simply means it is a viable strategy that isn't only luck involved but can regularly win battles.
Instead of crying over the one time you lost because someone landed a crit or a low accuracy move, you should spend your time focusing on making yourself as good as you can so you will win more often than these luck based teams.
This is not something to ban. Just "git gud" so you don't lose as often and a random loss from luck can be just something to laugh at.
get rid of crits, flinches, sleeparafusion hax
Would sleep be less broken if it always lasted 2 turns like Rest?
yes, and if the sleep counter doesnt reset like it did in gen5
In XY I really enjoyed doubles and really disliked dark void especially if comboed with a fake out user. Prankster assist was really unfair
Music?
Make a why mega Ray was banned from uberss
I really dislike anything with a bad accuracy in comp. It really irks me when I click rando battle and have Grass Whistle or Hypnosis
Not much of a competitive pokemon player, but the discussion around variance that is manageable enough on a strategy that's just fine, but not exceptional is always going to be a sticking point in any game. If you're getting randomed out by a tactic that isn't strong enough to be top-level competitive, but can just show up and roulette wheel you at the wrong time, it doesn't matter that it's not that great. If it's just weak enough to catch the most competitive edge of players out from time to time because they don't see value in preparing for it, that makes it even more obnoxious. If it ever gets good enough to get attention, the counterpicks work well enough to, over many games, show that it isn't competitive.
That makes losing to it even more frustrating. It's not quite worth preparing for, it can random you even if you're prepared, and it's not busted enough to get banned out?
Yeah, I'd hate it too.
So stats are the main reason that darkrai is more of an issue than a spore pokemon?
You mean smeargle right
Not in gen 6 but when i played SSHG with my friends they used to spam darkrai/hacked dark void pokemon and I countered them with flameorb/guts pokemon like Machamp or hearcross
And with his high SpD bulk toxicorb flareon also worked fine
Not a competitive ambient tho
Yeah toxic orb flareon is pretty bad even in PU, it just dies too quickly to its own item
You'd think it'd be most controversial in gen 5 where sleep was the strongest it's been since gen 1
Meanwhile in doubles...