I always seen them as mirrored, the emperor's children embraced the hunger of the flesh and hedonism and the iron hands reject the flesh to an extreme level denying their humanity as a consequence
It's why Fulgrim and Ferrus were friends in the first place. Ferrus seeked perfection through human strength and spirit. Which his sons interpreted through amputation and bionics.
I wonder if the detail of the his eyes was slotted in there for that exact reason? Knowing the writers GW hires, I woulsn't be surprised if someone runs that by their editors. They wouldn't be focusing on the primarchs this much if they didn't have some $$$$ primach models in the works.
The Iron Hands were definitely better off before meeting their primarch. They were a lot more like the ultramarines, only a little bit more exacting and rigid in their organization. Or like a more cool-headed and reasonable Iron Warrior. Absolutely efficient use of all resources, including unmodified auxiliary forces, without having contempt for humans or being wasteful with their own numbers.
I agree in the sense that with Ferrus, they were better, but without him, they devolved completely (thus perhaps being better off without having ever met him). And I only say this because Guilliman himself laments severely the loss of the Gorgon most of all.
Well we can always craft homebrew chapters of iron hands marines who hated ferrus because they were happier the way they were and felt that ferrus should not exist and he deserved what he got
@@jackmack4181 I would argue this puts Gman on a level above Horus. He understands real war to the level that he doesn't find it something pleasant or enjoyable. He understands war, and he find that it isnt something to like.
@maltheri9833 Corvus and Vulkan WERE there, and they got their forces encircled and anhillated. Corvus narrowly escaped with like 5 dudes in tow, and Vulkan had godmode enabled and noclipped across the galaxy with his magic hammer. They were encircled before their ships left port to go fight the battle, and everyone died except Corvus and Vulkan, for pretty much no reason except the writer didn't feel like offing three primarchs in one battle. Not sure what strategic masterstroke you're supposed to pull off when most of your forces switch sides the minute your first wave depletes itself and starts falling back.
This is why I love the current chapter master of the Iron hands, Iron Father Kardan Stronos. He is trying to regain that strength of character instead of strength of body. Ferrus Manus would be proud.
Yeah, we're headed in the right direction. Stronos and Iron Father Feirros are imo the best IH Chars since Shadrak Medusson. Let's Hope they use that Potential.
Ever since I was introduced to 40k and learned about its lore, I've felt a connection and a fascination with Ferrus Manus. I haven't been able to put it to words what made me so drawn to him and his legion, but this video finally put my feelings to words. The inherent sadness of his loss, the potential, the change stopped too soon. I see myself in him and fear to end up like him, leaving a mark which you were too late to heal. Thank you for this video, I truely appreciate it.
I hear you brother! The Gorgon and Iron Hands are my favorite as well. But you know the difference between us and him? Ferrus' story is over while yours and mine are still being written.
Got this notification while I was reading Wrath of Iron, a book starring the Iron Hands and opening with Ferrus’ lament over the state of his legion. Needless to say I was very excited.
I love the gradient in the beliefs of the primarchs. It really is too bad we don't get enough of Ferrus and his other brothers. Honestly, one of the things I love the most about 30k is the brothers interacting with each other and Big E, really showing what makes each of them unique.
Ferrous & the Iron hands have always been amongst my favourite primarchs & legions despite us never really getting to see them truly developed. Their the true epitome of concentrated firepower, the mailed fist, the heart of the storm. If they see something they don't like then it's a matter of unloading into the target until it's gone. Hammer meet nail. It's brutally simple & brutally effective 😅
Apologies for my typo on Ferrus, why auto correct let's me write Ka'bhanda & Roboute Guilliman with no issue but Ferrus it just can't handle the affront to grammar 😅
Yeah, he basically had the misfortune of dying first just as he was on the cusp of actual character development. Interesting to see just how highly regarded he was by others and what he could have turned into given time.
It never occurred to me but Ferrus death is actually eerily similar to what would become of the Emperor. Ferrus saw how his teachings were causing his sons to abandon their Humanity and swore he would rectify it, only to end up dead before he could, leaving his sons to continue doing the exact opposite of what he wanted. Big E planned to teach Humanity to control their psychic gifts, but had to outlaw their use in the short term, and ended up stuck on the Golden Throne before he could achieve that plan, leaving the Imperium to persecute and kill the very psykers that he saw as the next step in Human evolution.
Add to that, he likes his bothers. Even those who he doesn't gel with. He made lorgars his crozius as a thanks in helping in one of the campaigns. He whole thing about: The flesh is weak. Was actually said by vulken to ferrus. And the complete version is : The Flesh is weak but deeds endure. Roboute looked up to him. Horus respected him. And if you read the end and the death. You saw his interaction with Sanguinuis. He and his legion are underwritten for sure. But I think his story hasn't ended. He came back in The end and the death. We got that whole thing about primarch souls. His skull was retrieved by dorn. And we got Demon Fulgim in the horizon. He could come back one more time as a legion of the damnd primarch. Or maybe figure out his true name and summon him. Like what happened with demon primarchs and the current story of the yellow King.
He didn't seem to like Perturabo very much, despite their similarities. In one of Perturabo's books, (I forget which one, either Hammer of Olympia or Angel Exterminatus,) it is mentioned that Perturabo, trying to understand his ability to see the eye of terror, reached out to Ferrus to ask if his silver eyes granted any similar visions, and if so, any insight. Ferrus was stated to have told Perturabo to leave with an expression of disgust.
Iron Hand: "You will fail. Your sentimentality will be your undoing. The flesh is weak." Salamander: "I have heard you say that phrase on several occasions since our first encounter. I am not sure that you really understand what it means." Iron Hand: "You may have spoken with the Gorgon but do not think to school me in the teachings of my own primarch!" Salamander: "Perhaps I must if the lesson was not learned properly," Ari'i snapped back. "What you say, the flesh is weak, is only part of the saying. In forgetting the end you have lost the meaning. Vulkan said it in praise of Ferrus Manus, after the One Hundred and Eighty-Fourth Expedition when our Legions jointly liberated the ork-dominated worlds of the Shoxua Cluster. The fighting had been fiercer than anything we had expected. Your primarch said in jest that his arm was tired from killing so many orks, and Vulkan retorted with "the flesh is weak, but deeds endure". It was a celebration of what they had achieved, and a remark that even primarchs can die but what they do will last beyond their lifespan. It was a message of humility, not condemnation. Flesh is weak because it knows it must come to an end, and so we must rise above the concerns of flesh and leave a legacy that others will be proud to inherit. Ferrus Manus understood that. He was a harsh master, an unforgiving ally, but he was also a maker of things - a builder, not a destroyer. I find it strange how this conversation wasn’t passed down or even known through the history of the Iron Hands chapter. If Ferrus came back he’d be ashamed of his sons.
It didn’t get passed down because it didn’t fit the narrative the Iron Hands pushed. Like genuinely. It challenged the dogma they had built their chapter and legion around, and told them that they were wrong about something so critical to their primarch’s ideology. There is no way in HELL that they would admit to that and pass it on.
Manus just started his redemption arch as he died. That always hit me. Right when you start to care, he’s gone. His return is the one I want most. The lest baggage doesn’t hurt.
The Iron Hands remind me alot of Davy Jones. In their grief they buried their hearts, but burying a heart does not heal it, and their cruelty is a manifestation of that pain.
Ferrus was basically Conan the Barbarian. His concept of training out your weakness being caricaturizee into “cut out the weakness” is tragic. His legion became something he would hate. RIP metal man.
My view on Ferrus Manus is: Yeah, bit of a dick, tbh. It does suck that he got decapitated basically the second he went "Oh, jesus christ, i think i'm a bit of a dick". I am so so so so so fucking excited to see you do Angron because i love these videos and i love Angron he's my problematic fave and i could fix him
He is stern, but he recognizes the limitations of those under his command (unlike Perturabo). In his primarch book "Ferrus Manus: Gorgon of Medusa" he is seen observing an imperial officer dozing off and laughs (the officer saved a regiment under his command recently): "'And what of the Army?' This Ferrus addressed to the mortal officer standing at Cicerus' back. He was garbed in a tan-coloured dress uniform that had been misbuttoned, as if pulled on in haste. Over his stony-grey crew cut was a peaked cap with a regimental crest in silver. His padded shoulders were sewn with badges of the 413th Expedition, of Terra, the Jovian satellite Ganymede, and of Ultramar, the rank insignia of a lieutenant colonel in the Imperial Army, and the red helix of the medicae corps. Ferrus frowned. The soldier stood loosely to attention, hands resting atop one another over the silver-crested head of an officer's cane, face turned down in what Ferrus had taken for awe at his present company. DuCaine emitted a bark of laughter and only then did Ferrus realise that the man's eyes were closed, light snores rippling his lips. In a crunch of mail, Ferrus relaxed back into his throne and chuckled."
It's also a really beautiful, but sad, symbolism that Ferrus genuinely loved Fulgrim (multiple instances where he's ready to rip someone's head off and just forcibly thinks about Fulgrim to help calm himself down lol) and that that betrayal from the inside was not something he could defend himself against, the weakness of the heart even though that was also his strength. Like you said, he was starting to see what was *wrong* but he didn't do anything about it in time, which while incorrectly quoted for him, he WAS there, "the flesh is weak, only deeds endure." His deeds endure, it's just too bad they're the ones that he wanted to change. Another symbolism there for the Legion only ever being able to be at half strength because their true strength, his true strength, was his humanity....something his sons will never have because of seeing only half the picture. But that's also maybe giving GW too much credit 😂
Hello Mr. Authur Bones, I've watched your content from the start of your channel and always enjoyed them and your hard work. Your chapters series, Primarch deep dive and your other materials. if you read this, thank you, if you dont't: It is fine. This will not the as short as your other comments, but a small idea/aspect of the Sire of the 12th - Angron. You probably have a idea and resource prepared for him and I do not propose a better solution or replacement for your hard work, just a thing some might have noticed that is blurred by his bezerker nature. The World Eaters are my favorite legion, which you will probably see in this comment. Your Primarch deep dive have been my favorite as you present each of them in a light, seldomly seen by the masses of people. Intrinsic, complex beings, as they are. It also hits deeper to hear an Intellectual perceptive on something some of us hold dear to heart and enjoy it. It is nice to have more valid and particular reasons for those characters to hold a special places and live rent free in our heads. Henceforth: Angron in all his rage, blind fury, reckless abandonment, a broken and sad man whom lingers for justice. A story of how prolonged pain changes a man, no matter how good or rightous. I just propose 3 side that might require a deeper insight or you have already sought to review those jagged teeth of character what is Angron. Those are: I)."Pain" - The Butcher Nail rob anybody from their emotions and mutilates your character, replacing any enjoyment from anything that is not primal rage, violence and bloodshed of other. Placing a judge whom punishes your for lack of violence and blood. As we know, Angron was originally an Empath, a man who took and helped with others pain. When the Nails were implanted, it has taken away the gladiator of Courage and Honour into a butcher, a blood hungry blade, that never is satisfied. That never ending pain does not even subside, as in "Betrayer" (I believe, cannot remember now) his Nails did not reward him akin to his sons duo to his Primarch biology, hence even robbing his a moment of respite that he earned with the skulls of countless. That mutilation, that pain changes a man, as he combats an enemy, a cancer that kills your morals and values. Since, his character can be summed up as "Rage personified" the pain fuels his rage and hence, fuels the nails, it is a give and loss relationship. When experience with such pain, one might ask "Why", "Why me, what have i done to deserve this", twisting ones perspective to exact vengeance or pain onto others to calm ones internal struggle. Konrad Curze is a more broken man the Angry Ron, but he does not have the pain of the past. It's like with love: Is it better to taste da love of a partner and the lose it, yearn for it back or to never expirence it and hunger for the better times. For me loss and memories of lost love/peace and Angron Pre-Nails live hurt more, as he lingers f it to be gone, as he knows how it is without them Those questions leads to my next point. II)."Rage against injustice" - When Angron refused to kill O, his adoptive and "true" father, the Nails were implanted. He did deserve punishment in terms of disobeying the authority, but the severity of the punishment was WAY too high, by our modern standards. Hence we can say he did not deserve it, he would also agree to us. hence the innate rage and distain for the High Riders of Nicerria. Then after the revolt, Big - E shows up and takes him away, against his will, then even later on the "Night Of the Wolf" occurs, duel with Robute Guiliman with his speech which exemplars Angrons character (my favorite quote tbh) and finally his apotheosis. All of those example unfair (in his eyes) actions taken against him, denying his right to execute his will, be it right or wrong decisions. We all experience primal and honest anger and ire when falsely accused, lied to or being denied something true and correct. As we know the truth in those type of situation, this fire/fury burns within us as it is the nature of the truth and rage. Those co - inside when moment arises to. Angron is a man of truth, wanting to fight the High raiders and lay low any and all tyrants, all he wanted was the truth and honesty, found only in combat. The constant thought of denied dead, unjust rescue from Big - E, it fuel him with righteous fury to push forward. Recklessly, but forward nonetheless. Those experiences do not allow him to stagnate in the action, but might in his mind. Regarding recklessness, next point. III)."Distain for one self" - "Betrayer" present a great insight into the 12th legion life and Angron as a character. His gladiatorial tradition and habits linger and plant their roots into the World Eaters legionaries in the pit, weapons attendance and fighting doctrines. Beginning with the pits: duels to the 1st,2nd,3rd blood or to dead "Sanguis Extremis". Self mutilation and willingness to kill those oppose to your view point. Now weapons, a blade broken is unfit and unworthy of further use, duo to stress of war and combat, henceforth - discard it. A weapon is both a tool and an extension of ones self, both tangibly and mentally. Throwing away a broken axe or blade is like throwing away a part of oneself, failed, weak but one able to change, fix. Further more, the custom of chaining the blades and chainaxes (my favorite weapon in the setting, by god its metal) for the user not to be disarmed. it holds the broken part of yourself together to you, there but willing to be fixed and remade anew. Now for the fighting stance, we all know how they fight - relentless, brutally, bloody, ferocious and with lack of self preservation. The last part is noticeable during all of their battles since Angron was reunited with the legion. Siege of Terra, Shadow Crusade of the 500 worlds, the planet were the Nails were first implemented and many more in the 41 Mil, even on the tabletop this is true. regarding the gladiatorialaspectsof the 12th, Kharn is one exemplar of them, both a participant and the exception. reused and fixed Angron Gorechild,had a noticeable distain for the pits and he even says the following in "Betrayer" (I'm going by memory, hence i might mess up the quote): "A warrior who fights to survive has no weapons against the warrior who cares not to live". this is how he described himself and his brother against a skirmish for of Ultramarines. And Angron the prime example. he simply wants to die, a fate he wan ted, deserved and yearns for up until the modern setting. Charging headfirst into every fight, charging alone in hordes of enemies, shoulder pressing a titans foot, nearly digging himself into the planets core. In "Betrayer" him and other complain and talk about his fatalistic behaviours, Lorgar worries for him. He simply wants to end it all, but will still fight until dead takes him. He is like a coworker who hates his job, that he is one bad day away for pulling a Night Lords special on the rest of the team, however he is ungodly good at his job. Carrying it on as I realized that in all of that bloodshed, distain for himself and everybody around, there is still a strong semblance of honor in his brutality, henceforth IV)."Honor through brutality" - As we know, Angron was raised as a gladiator, fought and lived as one till the bitter end of apotheosis. It instilled in him a sense of Honor, morals, rules and tradition as to not lose oneself in the endless battle that is life and pitfights. Even after mutilation of his mind, those values still resided, although twisted in practice. The "War Hounds" fought with brutality and honor in the pits, punishing those prideful and dirty tacticians in the pits, it was also used as a sort of punishment and "rehabilitation", as with Delvarus of the Triarii. Even there enemies noted in the sea of butchers that there is a heavy presence of martial prowess and skill, which has been degrading and losing its presence in the 41th Millenium. Onto Angron himself: he always fought head on and to the fullest, man to man, no outwitting your enemy, just head on. This can be interpretated as respecting his opponent, hence giving him his all and fighting to death. This is fully shown when Loyal World Eaters survived on the initial bombardment on Istvaan 5 - Angron personally killed all of his loyal sons. Giving them a honor of 1 vs. 1, even complimenting one son who cut at his neck. it is a twisted version of honor, but being the speartip that pierces the enemy and kills the rest in honest confortation is him sticking to his morals and values as a warrior, a gladiator before a Butcher. Concluding this monster of a tale, which I could have made longer if I did videos like you or prepared and full script as a part of my work, this is a shorter version of my views on Angron. I simply wanted to express something of mine and other might appreciated and ponder upon. You most likely have an idea for him, and what I cover was a deeper dive into his charactersitcs, but he wears what he is on his sleeve, he knows what he is and does not hide it. I hope this finds you well, use it or not - you decide. I hope i manage to express my point, if not; closely so to fill in the gaps. Nontheless, the most handsome servoskull of a man, have a great day and good luck with your work and keep up the great work. I'll await new material from you and take care man. Sincerely: Bazant PS: Your takes of goofing beyond believe of primarch and your continues spite against Magnus, you always make me laugh and this will the death of me.
I hope that Arthur finds this. This was very interesting to read and made me a whole heck of a lot more interested in the worldeaters. I no wonder what angron would have looked like if things had been different. Anyhow, great comment and i would watch a 30 minute vidoe about this as an expanded video. Much love, some silly guy :D.
@@joonashaav6531 thanks man and the one above you. I believe he would have been a Paladin, an Oath Keeper and mostly - a loyal man. I would have rather seen him remain loyal and his sons in 40k, even if he had died duo to the nails and saw Ferrus clone crubely ressirected and joined the 3rd legion. If the release the Emperors Children in 10th, I would kitbash them to be 50/50 3rd and 10th legion. But I do loyal War Hounds as my main army, hence no Heresy. Thanks for reading, I would watch a long format video on him and the rest as well.
Ferrus was a top 6 general and commander. Had so much potential, that’s what’s sad about his loss. All the primarchs thought very highly of him. There’s a reason he’s featured in Angel Exterminatus, it’s to show his similarities to perturabo like you mentioned
The Iron Hands are and Ferrus are my Favourite chapter and Primarch since i got properly into 40k late last year. I love Cyborgs at first i loved them for that, then as i discovered lore about them, I loved them for the wild potential there is to take their story in all sorts of crazy ways. Like the IH werent at Cadia because Medusa was also under seige during the 13th as it's also right next to the Eye. And that we are supposedly in the Pariah Nexus right now, helping the admech. I hope that sometime soon, GW realizes the innate potential of the Iron Hands and starts to flesh them out further. Elaborating on The Keys of Hel would be amazing, especially bringing Revenants into the current setting would be awesome. (The Iron Hands could totally be a Divergent chapter on the tabletop, if GW just looked at all the shit they set up in the lore.)
_Most_ of the “founding chapters” could be codex divergent if GW bothered to look at them. Salamanders and Imperial Fists come to mind… like, even if they’re not _too_ far off the codex you could still give them at least one unique unit, like Primaris versions of Breachers or Pyroclasts. Scars and Raven Guard are harder to define though. You already have Primaris bikes, and Vanguard vets are pretty RG.
@LordCrate-du8zm honestly that's fair. I think that all the Codex chapters should get a unit though, that's for sure. Like even if they want to just make it an upgrade sprue to a normal kit that gives Codex chapters a unique data sheet I'd be happy with it.
Its kind of why I learned to eventually liked Ferrus Manus. A Primarch with genuine fear, fear that as a father figure he led his sons to a point where he looked at them as a machine at best or a monster at worst.
For þe longest time I was never particularly interested in Ferrus Manus, just because as far as legions go þe Iron Hands is decidedly one of þe most neglected as far as þe spotlight goes, but when i actually sat down and read what lore þeir is about hime it quickly made him one of my favorite primarchs, and ive often found myself wondering what a Iron Hands sucsessor þat wmbrace þeir humanity and þe lessons of þeir primarch would look like
Ferrus's self-doubt was his most interesting quality. He genuinely believed that he was weak when compared to many of his brothers. Guilliman and Horus in particular were sore spots for him, as they both were way better at achieving compliances than he was. But over time, he began to essentially adopt the mindset that it was more important to be the best Ferrus that he could be, rather than being the best Primarch.
"The look on Cicerus' face told him that no reminder was necessary, but subtlety was the brother of negligence." - Gorgon of Medusa Ferrus Manus' *negligence* towards emphasizing the strength of human spirit in overcoming weakness was the downfall of the Iron Hands, just as the *subtlety* of the Laer Blade's influence was the downfall of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children.
I find it interesting that Horus felt true sorrow for the loss of Manus. Telling that no other brother of his knew war like himself and Manus. I hope we see more lore filled out about Ferris, he really does need it.
Manus is my top primarch. Reading his primarch novel changed my perception of the legion and his leadership. I believe that Ferrus suffered from toxic competitiveness, and fear of perceived failure. Something I can relate to on a very personal level. His leadership style meant that he passed that on to his legion, and because they viewed his death as a weakness, and failure on his part, they broke.
FM is the Worf of the setting. He is presented as the super tough scary guy that immediately gets knocked out at the start of the heresy in order to set up the stakes of the setting.
I for one adore Ferrus Manus. It’s a real shame he was killed off so early because his character development on track to be one of the most interesting of the loyalist by far. However, the potential can still be lived up to if GW gave the slightest care to the Iron Hands. Their leadership form of having a council, the inner struggle of each member, and just how brutal they are in combat can make for some incredible story telling.
Ferrus Manus is interestingly one of my favorite characters. His end and deaths is so tragic and yes very much early. But I do believe or more like hope that he is now a leader of The Legion of The Damned.
Excellent video as always. You're doing a tremendous job on these primarch videos. For everybody else, if the Emperors TTS series changed your headcannon for certain characters and you enjoyed that, then I'd like to shoutout voxcast to nowhere. I mention this because their "take" on Ferrus is fantastic
Whenever I think of an example of grim dark in 40k the iron hands are the epitome of that. And I fucking love it. I would now like to formally submit my nineteenth request for a Red Scorpions video. your's truly, cool dude
Love the vid, perfect for me being in the middle of the Damnation of Pythos, where some very clear (heavy handed, no pun intended) parallels are drawn between the Iron Hands and Emperor's Children
I always really liked that ferris and fulgrim were friends because of how similar they were. They were both born with this need for improvement and eventually that defined them as people. They couldn't handle the horrible dysmorphia of not being perfect and tried to get as close as possible and that eventually fucked them both They both treated perfection like an addiction, fulgrims need to improve the body and mind were more like uppers, and the iron hands tried to cut out weakness and feel less. The only reason they didn't fall to slanesh as well is because they viewed any emotion as a weakness while the emperors children viewed them as a strength. Both are terrible in the opposite ways and now they're all bitter and hollow, terrified to admit any fault in any way
Prior to Fulgrim's possession neither he nor Manus really did any work to modify or "improve" themselves AFAIK so I wouldn't exactly call it dysmorphia, though each of their respective their sons definitely developed something like it after the heresy.
Video Idea: Besides the Mechanicus, how technologically advanced is the rest of the Imperium? Considering many worlds are extremely remote, and the reach of the Mechanicus' doctrine is far from universal, "tech heresy" wouldn't be a belief on every planet. In addition to that, the average Imperial citizen seems very normal and pragmatic in the setting, meaning they would also be pragmatic about tech. Are there "home grown" spacecraft without Mechanicus aid? Primitive Space Marines made out of desperation from a cut off world? In my opinion, the most interesting parts about 40k aren't the crazy beliefs in the Imperium, but how normal people would have to navigate them in order to maintain a shred of efficiency and living standards.
Another idea could be the other planets of the Solar System, especially Saturn, and how their special role in the early Empire's ascension plays into their contemporary rights. Are they given special privilege
Ferrus Magnus was the in between of Purterabo and Fulgrim. He sought perfection but didnt let it consume him. He punished weakness but not through destruction.
While it was an amazing tool for the storyline for the horus heresy, and I think having a primarch die that quickly was a good idea... it is an absolute tragedy that it ended up being ferrus manus... he is so unique and interesting and if you read from his perspective he ended up being very introspective and capable of self reflection. And his whole character was just totally different from the others. I just wish we had more lore on him
You’re right about one thing, we get hardly anything on them today. I’ve read close to 20 WH40k Books this year and I can only remember one book that has a part with an Iron Hand in it. Crazy
iron hands need content, period. for a legion that looks absolutely cool and very technological enhanced, you could do so much with them. But alas with their primarch dead and how the legion is written they will probably get forgotten and maybe totally annihilated by gw in the future
Hell yeah! My favorite Primarch mentioned! The is also a thing about Iron hands where they ALSO blame Ferrus somewhat. One of the core tennets or pragmatism is to keep a cool head and be calm at all times, a thing the Ferrus didn't do when he went ahead of himself and charge head-first into a trap. I also would love to see what OG Primaris IH thibk about 40k IH. Do marines who lived in times of Ferrus think legion is heading into its logical evolution or they reminded 40k IH just how much went over their heads?
Could you imagine a redeemed Iron Hands, those who come to understand the efficiency of their craft is not all that matters, and that they are not just the slayers of Mankind's enemies, but also their guardians, building not only weapons of war, but marvels of awe for the citizens of the Imperium as they finally remember the full sentence that was spoken to their Primarch: "The flesh is weak, but deeds endure."
One thing i will note about the Iron Hands blaming the Salamanders and Raven Guard, they also blame their own Veteran Company, the Avernii, who fought and died on Istvaan V and failed to save their Primarch. As well, the 40k Iron Hands are no longer descending into cold calculating cruelty, as they've been redirected by a new leader Kardan Stronos into more human entities (depending on Clan Company)
When you said he will always fall short no matter what, that reminded me of Red Vs Blue. Agent Texas, was an AI fragment based off the late lover of Church, Allison. All his memories of her, end with her leaving for the military, and never coming back. So no matter what she did, no matter how great both her and the fragment were, they always fell short in the end.
I always see Ferrus as a Perturabo who cared at least a tiny bit about his sons. Still extremely stern and harsh punishment but rather than because he hates but because he genuinely wants them to be better
Ferrus and IH are my favorites. They are the grimmest of the darkest out of ALL chapters/Legions. Tragic, nuanced, seem to be GW's whipping boys. The least good guys out of the good guys in a setting where there aren't supposed to be good guys. It's ALMOST fitting that GW gives them so little love. Not that I don't want them to get that love. They have SOO MUCH UNRECOGNIZED POTENTIAL. I think their nuance is so deep and... mature let's say, that most people (including GW) don't usually see it. That and you have to dig for it pretty hard due to their lack of attention. What I would give to see Abnett have a good crack at them(beyond Meduson)! Or ADB... that could be something!
I really appreciate you giving this topic attention and not phoning it in. Nobody ever covers this dude. I think you knocked it out of the part with this.
The reason on why I love how Tragic the Iron Hands is, it's because the Death of their Primarch is very traumatic to see. A trauma that a Space Marine should or even COULD feel. It's something the Emperor designed for them to not feel yet it's in their soul. Raised to be calculated and logic on everything that they are basically confused and has to blame something else into a perpetual unending cycle of Denial.
As i understand the message here its be a strong man through a strong character and if you can reach that point you are alredy physically strong and therefor the best
I agree with your take on Kurse, if he didn't have any sense of morals beaten out of him (along with the implied prophetic gaslighting that chaos almost certainly did to make him force along the 40k timeline) he would've set the gold standard for the arbites
I don’t think this is it, but what you reference @ 14:21 reminds me of the quote from the Picard S2 teaser “What we do in a crisis often weighs upon us less heavily than what we wish we had done.” Edit: Most of us are on the autism spectrum so, you know, long live our autistic Primarch 🤷🏻♂️
Ferrus is a great example of how insecurities within oneself can be passed down to your children, even if that was not your intent, and how to love oneself is to embrace one's weakness, not to resent it. It is about a child finding the strength to overcome the trauma that their father have, while not knowing that this is what their father would want in the first place.
i belive the whole "the flesh is weak" should be dropped by GW and give more focus to the Revenant, giving the implication that the IH never really recover from the dropsite massacre and most of the chapter are in fact Revenant; this will change the IH from Admech simps to a more dramatic take as the replacing of the flesh is the IH preparing themself to undergo the Cibernetic resurrection
We really need more Great Crusade stuff, Ferrus is the greatest example of why, then is the whole Rangda and a lot of other stuff that really could develop factions of the current setting like the pre-Primarch state of Legions like the Blood Angels, Raven Guard and the Death Guard.
Honestly I feel like the only truly interesting thing about Ferrus is how he’s death effected his legion, since he really didn’t do anything interesting alive though the only thing that would came close was his discovery of an iron hand ship from the future but that really didn’t went anywhere.🐱
I dunno about anyone else, but yeah, we used to compare Ferrus and Perturabo constantly back in the day, even before the HH novels had even come out. Comes with the territory of their legions having almost the same name.
Their chapter motto is derived from something vulkan once told ferrus... "The flesh is weak, but deeds endure" The fact that the latter half of that statement is forgotten by the iron hands is *chefs kiss*
He's the only primarch that seemed to truly understand and embrace his role. The primarchs werent created to be enlighteners, or builders, or exemplars, or liberators. They were created to smash the enemies of the emperor flat, and move on.
Manus dying early could be seen as intentional if we look beyond the original limited scope planned for the Horus Hersey series. The abrubt and brutal end that leaves a gaping wound not just within his family but the whole of humanity. He was one of the first primarchs found so to the imperium this man is one of the major figures and he was just so suddenly cut down before he could forge strength in mankind beyond war.
Failure is a hallmark of the Iron Hands in that they are willing to look earnestly at themselves and seek to remedy their imperfections. It is what makes them as powerful as they are. They loved the Emperor's Children and waged several campaigns and joint exercises with them. The tragedy is not simply the death of their Primarch, but the tragedy of betrayal by those who were their closest of kin. It's closer to a story of divorce than one of mere psychological insecurity. Fulgrim had knocked Ferrus Manus unconscious and slain his honor guard after failing to convince Ferrus to join Horus' cause. The closest literary comparison would be the relationship between Griffith and Guts in Berserk. The artistic similarities are striking, as well.
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
The flesh is weak. I mean look at our primarch his flesh was so weak that he was the first to die. *gets shot by a Iron Father*
His fault for being too fleshy
**gets shot**
Who let all these tech priests in here? I mean, there not wrong, but-
*Gets shot*
Man, it's a shame Ferrus had necron hands instead of a necron nec-
*Gets shot*
Why is everybody getting shot in here?
*Gets shot*
Wait wha
*Gets shot*
Ironically the Iron Hands have become like the Emperors Children, chasing after perfection no matter the cost.
I always thought that was the point, that both were the same but in different directions
I always seen them as mirrored, the emperor's children embraced the hunger of the flesh and hedonism and the iron hands reject the flesh to an extreme level denying their humanity as a consequence
I am pretty sure there was a civil war in the chapter because one of their iron father have fallen too slanesh
I mean, they even birthed a slaaneshi daemon
It's why Fulgrim and Ferrus were friends in the first place. Ferrus seeked perfection through human strength and spirit. Which his sons interpreted through amputation and bionics.
I heard that chair squeek. Everyone knows you're sitting in a chair now.
The flesh is weaaaaak!!!!!
The chair does squeeeaaak
The chair is weaaakk!
Stop doxxing him!
*posted from a stool*
Necrodermis gets stimulated by some Necron, head grows back. Done.
Xd
metal head?
I wonder if the detail of the his eyes was slotted in there for that exact reason? Knowing the writers GW hires, I woulsn't be surprised if someone runs that by their editors. They wouldn't be focusing on the primarchs this much if they didn't have some $$$$ primach models in the works.
@@henrypaleveda7760 iron head
Stimulated sounds slanesh-y. That is heretical my brother.
The Iron Hands were definitely better off before meeting their primarch.
They were a lot more like the ultramarines, only a little bit more exacting and rigid in their organization. Or like a more cool-headed and reasonable Iron Warrior. Absolutely efficient use of all resources, including unmodified auxiliary forces, without having contempt for humans or being wasteful with their own numbers.
Even their Primarch thought that they were going a bit too far with their philosophy. He thought that he would fix that after the Crusade is over...
I agree in the sense that with Ferrus, they were better, but without him, they devolved completely (thus perhaps being better off without having ever met him). And I only say this because Guilliman himself laments severely the loss of the Gorgon most of all.
Well we can always craft homebrew chapters of iron hands marines who hated ferrus because they were happier the way they were and felt that ferrus should not exist and he deserved what he got
Even Horus said Ferrus was the only one besides himself that can wage war on scale he could
If that's the conversation I remember on Molech he put Guilliman up there as well.
@@Vrynixhe actually condemned him slightly saying “Roboute knows how to wage wars, but wishes he didn’t”
@maltheri9833are you talking about Istavaan? Where over half of þe attacking force where secretly traitors?
@@jackmack4181 I would argue this puts Gman on a level above Horus. He understands real war to the level that he doesn't find it something pleasant or enjoyable. He understands war, and he find that it isnt something to like.
@maltheri9833 Corvus and Vulkan WERE there, and they got their forces encircled and anhillated. Corvus narrowly escaped with like 5 dudes in tow, and Vulkan had godmode enabled and noclipped across the galaxy with his magic hammer. They were encircled before their ships left port to go fight the battle, and everyone died except Corvus and Vulkan, for pretty much no reason except the writer didn't feel like offing three primarchs in one battle. Not sure what strategic masterstroke you're supposed to pull off when most of your forces switch sides the minute your first wave depletes itself and starts falling back.
Necron technology is so great that it makes the emperors constructs better
@@channelcatfish7862 Glory to the Infinite Empire
Insert JOJO meme
This is why I love the current chapter master of the Iron hands, Iron Father Kardan Stronos. He is trying to regain that strength of character instead of strength of body. Ferrus Manus would be proud.
Yeah, we're headed in the right direction. Stronos and Iron Father Feirros are imo the best IH Chars since Shadrak Medusson. Let's Hope they use that Potential.
Ever since I was introduced to 40k and learned about its lore, I've felt a connection and a fascination with Ferrus Manus. I haven't been able to put it to words what made me so drawn to him and his legion, but this video finally put my feelings to words. The inherent sadness of his loss, the potential, the change stopped too soon. I see myself in him and fear to end up like him, leaving a mark which you were too late to heal. Thank you for this video, I truely appreciate it.
I hear you brother! The Gorgon and Iron Hands are my favorite as well. But you know the difference between us and him? Ferrus' story is over while yours and mine are still being written.
@@Osmond_Wrought🔥✍️
He was so close to being human only the be slain by his brother he considered highly because of the very humanity he had recovered. Utterly tragic
Worst of all??!
They haven’t had a book written about them in YEARS bruh
I'm sure being dead doesn't help
Got this notification while I was reading Wrath of Iron, a book starring the Iron Hands and opening with Ferrus’ lament over the state of his legion. Needless to say I was very excited.
I love the gradient in the beliefs of the primarchs. It really is too bad we don't get enough of Ferrus and his other brothers. Honestly, one of the things I love the most about 30k is the brothers interacting with each other and Big E, really showing what makes each of them unique.
He really didn't come out ahead
*ba dum tss*
Man he is going to lose his head when he sees his legion.
He’ll never be the HEAD of a major corporation
"The pun is weak."
@@chainsawsubtlety9828 so no head?
Ferrous & the Iron hands have always been amongst my favourite primarchs & legions despite us never really getting to see them truly developed.
Their the true epitome of concentrated firepower, the mailed fist, the heart of the storm.
If they see something they don't like then it's a matter of unloading into the target until it's gone.
Hammer meet nail. It's brutally simple & brutally effective 😅
Apologies for my typo on Ferrus, why auto correct let's me write Ka'bhanda & Roboute Guilliman with no issue but Ferrus it just can't handle the affront to grammar 😅
Mr Primarch Fe2+ lmao
Yeah, he basically had the misfortune of dying first just as he was on the cusp of actual character development. Interesting to see just how highly regarded he was by others and what he could have turned into given time.
It never occurred to me but Ferrus death is actually eerily similar to what would become of the Emperor.
Ferrus saw how his teachings were causing his sons to abandon their Humanity and swore he would rectify it, only to end up dead before he could, leaving his sons to continue doing the exact opposite of what he wanted. Big E planned to teach Humanity to control their psychic gifts, but had to outlaw their use in the short term, and ended up stuck on the Golden Throne before he could achieve that plan, leaving the Imperium to persecute and kill the very psykers that he saw as the next step in Human evolution.
I forgot Ferry Manny and the Aluminum Gloves existed.
thats usual
Add to that, he likes his bothers. Even those who he doesn't gel with.
He made lorgars his crozius as a thanks in helping in one of the campaigns.
He whole thing about: The flesh is weak. Was actually said by vulken to ferrus. And the complete version is : The Flesh is weak but deeds endure.
Roboute looked up to him. Horus respected him. And if you read the end and the death. You saw his interaction with Sanguinuis.
He and his legion are underwritten for sure. But I think his story hasn't ended. He came back in The end and the death. We got that whole thing about primarch souls. His skull was retrieved by dorn. And we got Demon Fulgim in the horizon. He could come back one more time as a legion of the damnd primarch.
Or maybe figure out his true name and summon him. Like what happened with demon primarchs and the current story of the yellow King.
He didn't seem to like Perturabo very much, despite their similarities. In one of Perturabo's books, (I forget which one, either Hammer of Olympia or Angel Exterminatus,) it is mentioned that Perturabo, trying to understand his ability to see the eye of terror, reached out to Ferrus to ask if his silver eyes granted any similar visions, and if so, any insight. Ferrus was stated to have told Perturabo to leave with an expression of disgust.
Do not talk about my Primarch like that, Meat.
Bro was fleshy and weak, got killed the first for a reason
He held strength but wished for a strength beyond machinery for his legion, for his sons.
You are si absorbed by hubris that you misinterpret his own words. The flesh is weak, but deeds endure
I’m legit nervous how he’s going to treat MY Primarch
@@endel12 who is yours?
Iron Hand: "You will fail. Your sentimentality will be your undoing. The flesh is weak."
Salamander: "I have heard you say that phrase on several occasions since our first encounter. I am not sure that you really understand what it means."
Iron Hand: "You may have spoken with the Gorgon but do not think to school me in the teachings of my own primarch!"
Salamander: "Perhaps I must if the lesson was not learned properly," Ari'i snapped back. "What you say, the flesh is weak, is only part of the saying. In forgetting the end you have lost the meaning. Vulkan said it in praise of Ferrus Manus, after the One Hundred and Eighty-Fourth Expedition when our Legions jointly liberated the ork-dominated worlds of the Shoxua Cluster. The fighting had been fiercer than anything we had expected. Your primarch said in jest that his arm was tired from killing so many orks, and Vulkan retorted with "the flesh is weak, but deeds endure". It was a celebration of what they had achieved, and a remark that even primarchs can die but what they do will last beyond their lifespan. It was a message of humility, not condemnation. Flesh is weak because it knows it must come to an end, and so we must rise above the concerns of flesh and leave a legacy that others will be proud to inherit. Ferrus Manus understood that. He was a harsh master, an unforgiving ally, but he was also a maker of things - a builder, not a destroyer.
I find it strange how this conversation wasn’t passed down or even known through the history of the Iron Hands chapter. If Ferrus came back he’d be ashamed of his sons.
It didn’t get passed down because it didn’t fit the narrative the Iron Hands pushed. Like genuinely. It challenged the dogma they had built their chapter and legion around, and told them that they were wrong about something so critical to their primarch’s ideology. There is no way in HELL that they would admit to that and pass it on.
The only thing I'd like for a return of ferrus would be a legion of the damned model, also there be a chair squeak at 10:04
The Arthur dummpy strikes back
Manus just started his redemption arch as he died. That always hit me. Right when you start to care, he’s gone. His return is the one I want most. The lest baggage doesn’t hurt.
The Iron Hands remind me alot of Davy Jones. In their grief they buried their hearts, but burying a heart does not heal it, and their cruelty is a manifestation of that pain.
Ferrus was basically Conan the Barbarian. His concept of training out your weakness being caricaturizee into “cut out the weakness” is tragic. His legion became something he would hate. RIP metal man.
man fulgrim really pulled a griffith with that daemon ascension huh.
BERSERK REFERENCE???????
I mean, it's technically only Fulgrim's body. The real Fulgrim is trapped in the sword while the daemon is possessing his body.
@@etinarcadiaego7424not Quiet because Fulgrim Relives the portion of his life when he was on his home planet over and over again
@etinarcadiaego7424 Yeah, but when he got out he was fine with it and torture-powerbottomed with some of the Emperor's Children.
@@ScottMalkensin-xp7wf That never happened, just like the End Times
Also you forgot to add, that he was sort of resurrected by the Big E to fight in the webway
My view on Ferrus Manus is: Yeah, bit of a dick, tbh. It does suck that he got decapitated basically the second he went "Oh, jesus christ, i think i'm a bit of a dick". I am so so so so so fucking excited to see you do Angron because i love these videos and i love Angron he's my problematic fave and i could fix him
The flesh is weak, but deeds endure.
The Iron Hands forgot the second part.
@@gamechanger8908 part of the humorous irony of the 42nd millennium
Tts Emperor called FM a "Brutish ass crack"
TTS is trash
@@greendalf123 that is one of the most heretical things one can say. You must be a Brutish Ass Crack as well Lil Iron Hand.
@greendalf123 obvious bait is obvious
I think people underrate Ferrus a lot, really.
He had a good head on his shoulders
I mean he's rarely doing anything since his return
Ferrus probably would have falcon punched Horus's head off tbh.
He is stern, but he recognizes the limitations of those under his command (unlike Perturabo). In his primarch book "Ferrus Manus: Gorgon of Medusa" he is seen observing an imperial officer dozing off and laughs (the officer saved a regiment under his command recently):
"'And what of the Army?'
This Ferrus addressed to the mortal officer standing at Cicerus' back. He was garbed in a tan-coloured dress uniform that had been misbuttoned, as if pulled on in haste. Over his stony-grey crew cut was a peaked cap with a regimental crest in silver. His padded shoulders were sewn with badges of the 413th Expedition, of Terra, the Jovian satellite Ganymede, and of Ultramar, the rank insignia of a lieutenant colonel in the Imperial Army, and the red helix of the medicae corps. Ferrus frowned.
The soldier stood loosely to attention, hands resting atop one another over the silver-crested head of an officer's cane, face turned down in what Ferrus had taken for awe at his present company. DuCaine emitted a bark of laughter and only then did Ferrus realise that the man's eyes were closed, light snores rippling his lips.
In a crunch of mail, Ferrus relaxed back into his throne and chuckled."
It's also a really beautiful, but sad, symbolism that Ferrus genuinely loved Fulgrim (multiple instances where he's ready to rip someone's head off and just forcibly thinks about Fulgrim to help calm himself down lol) and that that betrayal from the inside was not something he could defend himself against, the weakness of the heart even though that was also his strength.
Like you said, he was starting to see what was *wrong* but he didn't do anything about it in time, which while incorrectly quoted for him, he WAS there, "the flesh is weak, only deeds endure." His deeds endure, it's just too bad they're the ones that he wanted to change.
Another symbolism there for the Legion only ever being able to be at half strength because their true strength, his true strength, was his humanity....something his sons will never have because of seeing only half the picture.
But that's also maybe giving GW too much credit 😂
I love Ferries Mayonnaise. He deserves a Primarch novel the MOST of those who don't have one (specifically about their childhood and upbringing)
"warc!mes as a treat" is hilarious. thank you Arthur!
Hello Mr. Authur Bones, I've watched your content from the start of your channel and always enjoyed them and your hard work. Your chapters series, Primarch deep dive and your other materials. if you read this, thank you, if you dont't: It is fine.
This will not the as short as your other comments, but a small idea/aspect of the Sire of the 12th - Angron. You probably have a idea and resource prepared for him and I do not propose a better solution or replacement for your hard work, just a thing some might have noticed that is blurred by his bezerker nature. The World Eaters are my favorite legion, which you will probably see in this comment.
Your Primarch deep dive have been my favorite as you present each of them in a light, seldomly seen by the masses of people. Intrinsic, complex beings, as they are. It also hits deeper to hear an Intellectual perceptive on something some of us hold dear to heart and enjoy it. It is nice to have more valid and particular reasons for those characters to hold a special places and live rent free in our heads.
Henceforth: Angron in all his rage, blind fury, reckless abandonment, a broken and sad man whom lingers for justice. A story of how prolonged pain changes a man, no matter how good or rightous. I just propose 3 side that might require a deeper insight or you have already sought to review those jagged teeth of character what is Angron. Those are:
I)."Pain" - The Butcher Nail rob anybody from their emotions and mutilates your character, replacing any enjoyment from anything that is not primal rage, violence and bloodshed of other. Placing a judge whom punishes your for lack of violence and blood. As we know, Angron was originally an Empath, a man who took and helped with others pain. When the Nails were implanted, it has taken away the gladiator of Courage and Honour into a butcher, a blood hungry blade, that never is satisfied. That never ending pain does not even subside, as in "Betrayer" (I believe, cannot remember now) his Nails did not reward him akin to his sons duo to his Primarch biology, hence even robbing his a moment of respite that he earned with the skulls of countless. That mutilation, that pain changes a man, as he combats an enemy, a cancer that kills your morals and values. Since, his character can be summed up as "Rage personified" the pain fuels his rage and hence, fuels the nails, it is a give and loss relationship. When experience with such pain, one might ask "Why", "Why me, what have i done to deserve this", twisting ones perspective to exact vengeance or pain onto others to calm ones internal struggle. Konrad Curze is a more broken man the Angry Ron, but he does not have the pain of the past. It's like with love: Is it better to taste da love of a partner and the lose it, yearn for it back or to never expirence it and hunger for the better times. For me loss and memories of lost love/peace and Angron Pre-Nails live hurt more, as he lingers f it to be gone, as he knows how it is without them Those questions leads to my next point.
II)."Rage against injustice" - When Angron refused to kill O, his adoptive and "true" father, the Nails were implanted. He did deserve punishment in terms of disobeying the authority, but the severity of the punishment was WAY too high, by our modern standards. Hence we can say he did not deserve it, he would also agree to us. hence the innate rage and distain for the High Riders of Nicerria. Then after the revolt, Big - E shows up and takes him away, against his will, then even later on the "Night Of the Wolf" occurs, duel with Robute Guiliman with his speech which exemplars Angrons character (my favorite quote tbh) and finally his apotheosis. All of those example unfair (in his eyes) actions taken against him, denying his right to execute his will, be it right or wrong decisions. We all experience primal and honest anger and ire when falsely accused, lied to or being denied something true and correct. As we know the truth in those type of situation, this fire/fury burns within us as it is the nature of the truth and rage. Those co - inside when moment arises to. Angron is a man of truth, wanting to fight the High raiders and lay low any and all tyrants, all he wanted was the truth and honesty, found only in combat.
The constant thought of denied dead, unjust rescue from Big - E, it fuel him with righteous fury to push forward. Recklessly, but forward nonetheless. Those experiences do not allow him to stagnate in the action, but might in his mind. Regarding recklessness, next point.
III)."Distain for one self" - "Betrayer" present a great insight into the 12th legion life and Angron as a character. His gladiatorial tradition and habits linger and plant their roots into the World Eaters legionaries in the pit, weapons attendance and fighting doctrines. Beginning with the pits: duels to the 1st,2nd,3rd blood or to dead "Sanguis Extremis". Self mutilation and willingness to kill those oppose to your view point. Now weapons, a blade broken is unfit and unworthy of further use, duo to stress of war and combat, henceforth - discard it. A weapon is both a tool and an extension of ones self, both tangibly and mentally. Throwing away a broken axe or blade is like throwing away a part of oneself, failed, weak but one able to change, fix. Further more, the custom of chaining the blades and chainaxes (my favorite weapon in the setting, by god its metal) for the user not to be disarmed. it holds the broken part of yourself together to you, there but willing to be fixed and remade anew. Now for the fighting stance, we all know how they fight - relentless, brutally, bloody, ferocious and with lack of self preservation. The last part is noticeable during all of their battles since Angron was reunited with the legion. Siege of Terra, Shadow Crusade of the 500 worlds, the planet were the Nails were first implemented and many more in the 41 Mil, even on the tabletop this is true. regarding the gladiatorialaspectsof the 12th, Kharn is one exemplar of them, both a participant and the exception. reused and fixed Angron Gorechild,had a noticeable distain for the pits and he even says the following in "Betrayer" (I'm going by memory, hence i might mess up the quote): "A warrior who fights to survive has no weapons against the warrior who cares not to live". this is how he described himself and his brother against a skirmish for of Ultramarines.
And Angron the prime example. he simply wants to die, a fate he wan ted, deserved and yearns for up until the modern setting. Charging headfirst into every fight, charging alone in hordes of enemies, shoulder pressing a titans foot, nearly digging himself into the planets core. In "Betrayer" him and other complain and talk about his fatalistic behaviours, Lorgar worries for him. He simply wants to end it all, but will still fight until dead takes him. He is like a coworker who hates his job, that he is one bad day away for pulling a Night Lords special on the rest of the team, however he is ungodly good at his job.
Carrying it on as I realized that in all of that bloodshed, distain for himself and everybody around, there is still a strong semblance of honor in his brutality, henceforth
IV)."Honor through brutality" - As we know, Angron was raised as a gladiator, fought and lived as one till the bitter end of apotheosis. It instilled in him a sense of Honor, morals, rules and tradition as to not lose oneself in the endless battle that is life and pitfights. Even after mutilation of his mind, those values still resided, although twisted in practice. The "War Hounds" fought with brutality and honor in the pits, punishing those prideful and dirty tacticians in the pits, it was also used as a sort of punishment and "rehabilitation", as with Delvarus of the Triarii. Even there enemies noted in the sea of butchers that there is a heavy presence of martial prowess and skill, which has been degrading and losing its presence in the 41th Millenium. Onto Angron himself: he always fought head on and to the fullest, man to man, no outwitting your enemy, just head on. This can be interpretated as respecting his opponent, hence giving him his all and fighting to death. This is fully shown when Loyal World Eaters survived on the initial bombardment on Istvaan 5 - Angron personally killed all of his loyal sons. Giving them a honor of 1 vs. 1, even complimenting one son who cut at his neck. it is a twisted version of honor, but being the speartip that pierces the enemy and kills the rest in honest confortation is him sticking to his morals and values as a warrior, a gladiator before a Butcher.
Concluding this monster of a tale, which I could have made longer if I did videos like you or prepared and full script as a part of my work, this is a shorter version of my views on Angron. I simply wanted to express something of mine and other might appreciated and ponder upon. You most likely have an idea for him, and what I cover was a deeper dive into his charactersitcs, but he wears what he is on his sleeve, he knows what he is and does not hide it.
I hope this finds you well, use it or not - you decide. I hope i manage to express my point, if not; closely so to fill in the gaps. Nontheless, the most handsome servoskull of a man, have a great day and good luck with your work and keep up the great work. I'll await new material from you and take care man.
Sincerely: Bazant
PS: Your takes of goofing beyond believe of primarch and your continues spite against Magnus, you always make me laugh and this will the death of me.
^ this stuff is gold.
Deim i need read betrayer again...
I hope that Arthur finds this. This was very interesting to read and made me a whole heck of a lot more interested in the worldeaters. I no wonder what angron would have looked like if things had been different.
Anyhow, great comment and i would watch a 30 minute vidoe about this as an expanded video.
Much love, some silly guy :D.
@@joonashaav6531 thanks man and the one above you. I believe he would have been a Paladin, an Oath Keeper and mostly - a loyal man. I would have rather seen him remain loyal and his sons in 40k, even if he had died duo to the nails and saw Ferrus clone crubely ressirected and joined the 3rd legion. If the release the Emperors Children in 10th, I would kitbash them to be 50/50 3rd and 10th legion. But I do loyal War Hounds as my main army, hence no Heresy.
Thanks for reading, I would watch a long format video on him and the rest as well.
This is the best take of the iron hands and Ferris Man I’ve ever seen
Video on the Gorgon made! Very nice!! Time for Blood Gorgons video!!1! Lesss gooo
Ferrus was a top 6 general and commander. Had so much potential, that’s what’s sad about his loss. All the primarchs thought very highly of him. There’s a reason he’s featured in Angel Exterminatus, it’s to show his similarities to perturabo like you mentioned
I'm so happy to see some love given to Ferrus
I think he's really interesting and deep
“Hey, Ferrus. Nice hammer.” - Perturabo
The Iron Hands are and Ferrus are my Favourite chapter and Primarch since i got properly into 40k late last year.
I love Cyborgs at first i loved them for that, then as i discovered lore about them, I loved them for the wild potential there is to take their story in all sorts of crazy ways.
Like the IH werent at Cadia because Medusa was also under seige during the 13th as it's also right next to the Eye.
And that we are supposedly in the Pariah Nexus right now, helping the admech.
I hope that sometime soon, GW realizes the innate potential of the Iron Hands and starts to flesh them out further.
Elaborating on The Keys of Hel would be amazing, especially bringing Revenants into the current setting would be awesome.
(The Iron Hands could totally be a Divergent chapter on the tabletop, if GW just looked at all the shit they set up in the lore.)
_Most_ of the “founding chapters” could be codex divergent if GW bothered to look at them. Salamanders and Imperial Fists come to mind… like, even if they’re not _too_ far off the codex you could still give them at least one unique unit, like Primaris versions of Breachers or Pyroclasts.
Scars and Raven Guard are harder to define though. You already have Primaris bikes, and Vanguard vets are pretty RG.
@LordCrate-du8zm honestly that's fair. I think that all the Codex chapters should get a unit though, that's for sure. Like even if they want to just make it an upgrade sprue to a normal kit that gives Codex chapters a unique data sheet I'd be happy with it.
Pov: ferus manus *does* return, but as the newly arisen daemon primarch leading the legion of the damned, eager to right his wrongs
Legion of the damned is definitely one of the 'lost and the damned legions' 2/11th
IH are the coolest first founding chapter btw, just thought I'd let you know.
i wish they had more books its interesting chapter
Finally, somebody speaking objective facts instead of opinions!
Agree well them of the raven gaurd
Its kind of why I learned to eventually liked Ferrus Manus. A Primarch with genuine fear, fear that as a father figure he led his sons to a point where he looked at them as a machine at best or a monster at worst.
Dohhh you
I like how the Dornian Heresy had him steal Necron Metal to convert his army into Necronic Cyborgs
For þe longest time I was never particularly interested in Ferrus Manus, just because as far as legions go þe Iron Hands is decidedly one of þe most neglected as far as þe spotlight goes, but when i actually sat down and read what lore þeir is about hime it quickly made him one of my favorite primarchs, and ive often found myself wondering what a Iron Hands sucsessor þat wmbrace þeir humanity and þe lessons of þeir primarch would look like
Ferrus's self-doubt was his most interesting quality. He genuinely believed that he was weak when compared to many of his brothers. Guilliman and Horus in particular were sore spots for him, as they both were way better at achieving compliances than he was. But over time, he began to essentially adopt the mindset that it was more important to be the best Ferrus that he could be, rather than being the best Primarch.
They will still bring him back with the legion of the damned.
Like, not soon, but when they run out of idea for other releases it's just free money.
"The look on Cicerus' face told him that no reminder was necessary, but subtlety was the brother of negligence." - Gorgon of Medusa
Ferrus Manus' *negligence* towards emphasizing the strength of human spirit in overcoming weakness was the downfall of the Iron Hands, just as the *subtlety* of the Laer Blade's influence was the downfall of Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children.
I find it interesting that Horus felt true sorrow for the loss of Manus. Telling that no other brother of his knew war like himself and Manus. I hope we see more lore filled out about Ferris, he really does need it.
0:02 wait 20 PART!? ok i can't wait for the 2 lost primarcs
gonna be like a 20 minute video of a black screen
the inquisition removed it
Manus is my top primarch. Reading his primarch novel changed my perception of the legion and his leadership. I believe that Ferrus suffered from toxic competitiveness, and fear of perceived failure. Something I can relate to on a very personal level. His leadership style meant that he passed that on to his legion, and because they viewed his death as a weakness, and failure on his part, they broke.
FM is the Worf of the setting. He is presented as the super tough scary guy that immediately gets knocked out at the start of the heresy in order to set up the stakes of the setting.
I for one adore Ferrus Manus. It’s a real shame he was killed off so early because his character development on track to be one of the most interesting of the loyalist by far.
However, the potential can still be lived up to if GW gave the slightest care to the Iron Hands. Their leadership form of having a council, the inner struggle of each member, and just how brutal they are in combat can make for some incredible story telling.
Ferrus Manus is interestingly one of my favorite characters. His end and deaths is so tragic and yes very much early. But I do believe or more like hope that he is now a leader of The Legion of The Damned.
Excellent video as always. You're doing a tremendous job on these primarch videos.
For everybody else, if the Emperors TTS series changed your headcannon for certain characters and you enjoyed that, then I'd like to shoutout voxcast to nowhere. I mention this because their "take" on Ferrus is fantastic
Whenever I think of an example of grim dark in 40k the iron hands are the epitome of that. And I fucking love it.
I would now like to formally submit my nineteenth request for a Red Scorpions video.
your's truly,
cool dude
The iron hands always felt like a loyalist, and somewhat worse version of the Iron Warriors
Didn’t Ferus find a corpse of iron hands from 40k and was disgusted
Ferrus Manus was physically stronger than all of the primarchs. Even Vulkan.
man I really dig your style on this channel -respect man (yes I just warp travelled from the 90s)
Love the vid, perfect for me being in the middle of the Damnation of Pythos, where some very clear (heavy handed, no pun intended) parallels are drawn between the Iron Hands and Emperor's Children
Love this series. Csnt wait for A-Ron, Horus, Vulkan, and Corvus.
This comes right as im starting my Iron Hands army
I always really liked that ferris and fulgrim were friends because of how similar they were. They were both born with this need for improvement and eventually that defined them as people. They couldn't handle the horrible dysmorphia of not being perfect and tried to get as close as possible and that eventually fucked them both
They both treated perfection like an addiction, fulgrims need to improve the body and mind were more like uppers, and the iron hands tried to cut out weakness and feel less. The only reason they didn't fall to slanesh as well is because they viewed any emotion as a weakness while the emperors children viewed them as a strength. Both are terrible in the opposite ways and now they're all bitter and hollow, terrified to admit any fault in any way
Prior to Fulgrim's possession neither he nor Manus really did any work to modify or "improve" themselves AFAIK so I wouldn't exactly call it dysmorphia, though each of their respective their sons definitely developed something like it after the heresy.
Video Idea: Besides the Mechanicus, how technologically advanced is the rest of the Imperium? Considering many worlds are extremely remote, and the reach of the Mechanicus' doctrine is far from universal, "tech heresy" wouldn't be a belief on every planet. In addition to that, the average Imperial citizen seems very normal and pragmatic in the setting, meaning they would also be pragmatic about tech.
Are there "home grown" spacecraft without Mechanicus aid? Primitive Space Marines made out of desperation from a cut off world?
In my opinion, the most interesting parts about 40k aren't the crazy beliefs in the Imperium, but how normal people would have to navigate them in order to maintain a shred of efficiency and living standards.
Another idea could be the other planets of the Solar System, especially Saturn, and how their special role in the early Empire's ascension plays into their contemporary rights. Are they given special privilege
Ferrus Magnus was the in between of Purterabo and Fulgrim.
He sought perfection but didnt let it consume him. He punished weakness but not through destruction.
While it was an amazing tool for the storyline for the horus heresy, and I think having a primarch die that quickly was a good idea... it is an absolute tragedy that it ended up being ferrus manus... he is so unique and interesting and if you read from his perspective he ended up being very introspective and capable of self reflection. And his whole character was just totally different from the others. I just wish we had more lore on him
You’re right about one thing, we get hardly anything on them today. I’ve read close to 20 WH40k Books this year and I can only remember one book that has a part with an Iron Hand in it. Crazy
iron hands need content, period.
for a legion that looks absolutely cool and very technological enhanced, you could do so much with them. But alas with their primarch dead and how the legion is written they will probably get forgotten and maybe totally annihilated by gw in the future
Hell yeah! My favorite Primarch mentioned!
The is also a thing about Iron hands where they ALSO blame Ferrus somewhat. One of the core tennets or pragmatism is to keep a cool head and be calm at all times, a thing the Ferrus didn't do when he went ahead of himself and charge head-first into a trap.
I also would love to see what OG Primaris IH thibk about 40k IH. Do marines who lived in times of Ferrus think legion is heading into its logical evolution or they reminded 40k IH just how much went over their heads?
Could you imagine a redeemed Iron Hands, those who come to understand the efficiency of their craft is not all that matters, and that they are not just the slayers of Mankind's enemies, but also their guardians, building not only weapons of war, but marvels of awe for the citizens of the Imperium as they finally remember the full sentence that was spoken to their Primarch:
"The flesh is weak, but deeds endure."
One thing i will note about the Iron Hands blaming the Salamanders and Raven Guard, they also blame their own Veteran Company, the Avernii, who fought and died on Istvaan V and failed to save their Primarch. As well, the 40k Iron Hands are no longer descending into cold calculating cruelty, as they've been redirected by a new leader Kardan Stronos into more human entities (depending on Clan Company)
When you said he will always fall short no matter what, that reminded me of Red Vs Blue. Agent Texas, was an AI fragment based off the late lover of Church, Allison. All his memories of her, end with her leaving for the military, and never coming back. So no matter what she did, no matter how great both her and the fragment were, they always fell short in the end.
I always see Ferrus as a Perturabo who cared at least a tiny bit about his sons. Still extremely stern and harsh punishment but rather than because he hates but because he genuinely wants them to be better
Ferrus and IH are my favorites. They are the grimmest of the darkest out of ALL chapters/Legions. Tragic, nuanced, seem to be GW's whipping boys. The least good guys out of the good guys in a setting where there aren't supposed to be good guys. It's ALMOST fitting that GW gives them so little love. Not that I don't want them to get that love. They have SOO MUCH UNRECOGNIZED POTENTIAL. I think their nuance is so deep and... mature let's say, that most people (including GW) don't usually see it. That and you have to dig for it pretty hard due to their lack of attention. What I would give to see Abnett have a good crack at them(beyond Meduson)! Or ADB... that could be something!
Wrath of Iron, Eye of Medusa, Voice of Mars are about the IH, they’re good :)
I really appreciate you giving this topic attention and not phoning it in. Nobody ever covers this dude. I think you knocked it out of the part with this.
The reason on why I love how Tragic the Iron Hands is, it's because the Death of their Primarch is very traumatic to see. A trauma that a Space Marine should or even COULD feel. It's something the Emperor designed for them to not feel yet it's in their soul. Raised to be calculated and logic on everything that they are basically confused and has to blame something else into a perpetual unending cycle of Denial.
Great video as always mr bones keep them coming 🙏
Ferrus is always fun to talk about in primarch match up because of all of the statements throughout the series
I like your take. I frequently regard Ferrus as just being a "dead woman in the fridge" device to just make Fulgrim's fall seem more sad.
As i understand the message here its be a strong man through a strong character and if you can reach that point you are alredy physically strong and therefor the best
I agree with your take on Kurse, if he didn't have any sense of morals beaten out of him (along with the implied prophetic gaslighting that chaos almost certainly did to make him force along the 40k timeline) he would've set the gold standard for the arbites
I don’t think this is it, but what you reference @ 14:21 reminds me of the quote from the Picard S2 teaser
“What we do in a crisis often weighs upon us less heavily than what we wish we had done.”
Edit: Most of us are on the autism spectrum so, you know, long live our autistic Primarch 🤷🏻♂️
*Primarchs
That show needs to be put in the trash where it belongs.
Ferrus is a great example of how insecurities within oneself can be passed down to your children, even if that was not your intent, and how to love oneself is to embrace one's weakness, not to resent it. It is about a child finding the strength to overcome the trauma that their father have, while not knowing that this is what their father would want in the first place.
i belive the whole "the flesh is weak" should be dropped by GW and give more focus to the Revenant, giving the implication that the IH never really recover from the dropsite massacre and most of the chapter are in fact Revenant; this will change the IH from Admech simps to a more dramatic take as the replacing of the flesh is the IH preparing themself to undergo the Cibernetic resurrection
We really need more Great Crusade stuff, Ferrus is the greatest example of why, then is the whole Rangda and a lot of other stuff that really could develop factions of the current setting like the pre-Primarch state of Legions like the Blood Angels, Raven Guard and the Death Guard.
Honestly I feel like the only truly interesting thing about Ferrus is how he’s death effected his legion, since he really didn’t do anything interesting alive though the only thing that would came close was his discovery of an iron hand ship from the future but that really didn’t went anywhere.🐱
I have no words to express my rage
I recently made mistakes, and realized them too late. I relate to this more than I expected to.
I dunno about anyone else, but yeah, we used to compare Ferrus and Perturabo constantly back in the day, even before the HH novels had even come out. Comes with the territory of their legions having almost the same name.
Their chapter motto is derived from something vulkan once told ferrus...
"The flesh is weak, but deeds endure"
The fact that the latter half of that statement is forgotten by the iron hands is *chefs kiss*
...iron hands are unironically my second favorite chapter
If only he had thrown up his hands, he'd have a head. Or would've headbutt that Necron Worm thing into the lava & became Furrus Headus.
He's the only primarch that seemed to truly understand and embrace his role. The primarchs werent created to be enlighteners, or builders, or exemplars, or liberators. They were created to smash the enemies of the emperor flat, and move on.
Manus dying early could be seen as intentional if we look beyond the original limited scope planned for the Horus Hersey series.
The abrubt and brutal end that leaves a gaping wound not just within his family but the whole of humanity.
He was one of the first primarchs found so to the imperium this man is one of the major figures and he was just so suddenly cut down before he could forge strength in mankind beyond war.
Failure is a hallmark of the Iron Hands in that they are willing to look earnestly at themselves and seek to remedy their imperfections. It is what makes them as powerful as they are. They loved the Emperor's Children and waged several campaigns and joint exercises with them. The tragedy is not simply the death of their Primarch, but the tragedy of betrayal by those who were their closest of kin. It's closer to a story of divorce than one of mere psychological insecurity. Fulgrim had knocked Ferrus Manus unconscious and slain his honor guard after failing to convince Ferrus to join Horus' cause. The closest literary comparison would be the relationship between Griffith and Guts in Berserk. The artistic similarities are striking, as well.