Apologies that there's a bit of a volume difference between us! This, Fulgrim, and Valkia the Bloody's episode was recorded before we got a microphone upgrade so going forward audio should be clean! ❤💙
I’m looking forward to your episode on Fulgrim. One thing I’ve always found fascinating about him is that he has the backstory you’d expect Peter Turbo to have, and Peter Turbo has his backstory. Between the two of them which one do you expect to have been raised a pampered princeling and which one do you expect, to literally clawed the way up from the sludge of a crippled industrial world?
I've heard that it's poor edict to show up to a Warhammer 40K game with unpainted Minis but I can just imagine someone coming in to play with an army of unpainted Iron Hands and when someone calls them out on it they simply say, "Ferrus would not care if they were painted, only if they could be used".
To clarify planet naming schemes; it's the same as star trek's system, where each planet is named after the star and given a number depending on which order they are from their star. So Earth would be known as Sol 3, since we're the 3rd planet from the star Sol.
@@blender7 okay toaster boy, go jerk off to the ungodly amount of hidden DAoT war winning blueprints you have piled in your damn storage closet for no reason.
That's not ENTIRELY true. Imperial cartographers generally assign an alphanumeric designation to most planets, usually those that haven't been colonized, but other worlds are given actual names. Case in point? Well, Earth is called Terra, the moon is still called Luna, Mars is still called Mars, and Pluto is still called Pluto, and none of these to my knowledge are listed as 'Sol-X' or what have you. Likewise, the typical naming convention of referring to planets by designators like 'Primus', 'Secundus' or 'Tertias' does happen, but then you have cases like, say, Armageddon Secundus, which isn't another planet in the Armageddon System, but rather just the southern hemisphere of Armageddon. Meanwhile Baal Secundus refers to Baalfor, one of the twin moons of Baal, but the moon of Kiavahr is called 'Deliverance'. So there isn't really any consistency in the naming conventions, which tracks when you consider that nobody even knows what the bloody years is in the Imperium due to issues with the calendar system for over 10,000 years.
You know I keep thinking about the first Iron Hand to think hey guys let’s cut off our hand and replace it with a cyborg hand prosthetic hand. Dad’s gonna love it! Ferus comes home and 5 of his sons have permanently mutilated themselves he’s horrified internally but he just asks why? And when they say because we love you and want to be just like you… I honestly don’t think I could tell them yeah that’s stupid you idiots have disappointed me no one else do what these clowns did. So everyone else thinks oh okay sure dad liked that let’s all do it! Face palming Ferus meme
Ferrus Manus and the Iron Hands were primarily responsible for the field-testing and drafting of tactical doctrine concerning the use of numerous pieces of Astartes-Grade wargear, with their most notable contribution being Terminator armor. The Indomitus pattern suit that we all know and love today is a direct result of the Iron Hands’ tinkering. And their findings with their research informed a large portion of what would eventually become the Codex Astartes. If it involves terminators, dreadnoughts, or tanks, the Iron Hands wrote the book on it. As a result of their close work with the Mechanicum, they amassed the most technologically advanced armory out of all the Astartes legions, and they used it with pride and gusto in every battle they fought. For this reason, and many others, Horus greatly desired Ferrus to join him when he turned traitor. It’s also the reason that Horus was quaking in his frilly little gumboots when he found out Fulgrim tipped their hand, and Ferrus wasn’t going to be joining them for their rebellion. Horus orchestrated the Dropsite massacre to remove the Iron Hands from the field as quickly and cleanly as possible because he KNEW that the Iron Hands were going to be the biggest threat to his plans. Even if the traitors were able to annihilate the Iron Hands in the march to Terra, the traitors would be LIMPING into Terra’s orbit, if they even made it there at all. He had to get rid of them ASAP. And Istvaan didn’t even work all that well. It took the combined efforts of 8 traitor legions as well as numerous traitor Mechanicum and Exertis assets to bring down about 2/3rds of the legion, and even still, many of those Iron Hands survived the Dropsite massacre and went on to rally the Raven guard and salamanders into the Shattered Legions to be a MASSIVE pain in the ass for the traitors their whole way back to Terra. And besides, as someone who had a prosthetic leg from age 5, and always felt super self-conscious about it, I naturally gravitated towards the Iron Hands. They taught me that my leg isn’t holding me back, it’s a showing of my strength as a person, that I carry on despite being at a disadvantage.
Of all the Primarchs, Ferrus Manus always appeared to me as "elder brother" coded. Despite all the primarchs basically being the same age, he comes across as the oldest somehow, sometimes with a bit of a mentor status to him, but an imperfect one. He experienced tragedy early in a way few of his brothers did and mildly resented them for it even as he came to love them in a way he couldn't express. The Lion is the most emotionally closed off of them, another figure that is seen as somehow being an older brother among "equals", but I wish we'd gotten to see him and Ferrus interact more, because I feel like the two overly masculine primarchs might have found someone who understood the masks they both have to wear.
@@DetectiveLance He was. Ferrus was respected by most, because he has proven his capabilities time and again, because his harsh, blunt nature lends itself to honest council. And, because he lead one of the most reliable Legions (turns out, drowning the opposition in heavy artillery fire and rolling over the remains with heavy tanks tends to annihilate stuff), not to mention he was for a time charged with leading a third of the Great Crusade's forces alongside Big E and Horus while Russ was still busy getting the hang of using speaking rather than bark and growl at everyone. Funnily enough, he was also the tallest of the Primarchs, standing a head taller (heh) than Vulcan, who was/is admittedly bulkier/broader than Ferrus; but how much of a role that bit played is debated xD
The discussion of the WE and Angron and the cancer analogy made me realize that the WE may see the butchers nails as shaving their heads in solidarity, but to Angron it's a bunch of people he already doesn't like saying "WE GAVE OURSELVES CANCER TO BE LIKE YOU! DO YOU LOVE US NOW?"
@@Erinya558 Yes. And he did that because, to him, they weren't his men. His men died on Desh'ea. It's like meeting a 'nice guy' who stalks you and constantly talks big about how much they love you even though you neverknew them before. Eventually, he snapped and said "If you love me so much go lobotomize yourselves!". And they did. And he hated them for it.
@@rakshithanand8262its also a point that gets brought up in the “Lord of the Red Sands” short story. Angron cradles one of the loyalist, a dying World Eater attacked him. Angron is proud of him for fighting so hard against him. He even smiles when the space marine points out that he wounded Angron. Angron has repeatedly said that if he believed if he was whole or a better person he would have turned on the Emperor from day one. He ends up ranting at the dying marine about how he is now free but it always read as a desperate attempt to convince himself. It seemed to be more about how he respects the choice to die for something rather than go along with something they don’t believe in. It is one of the stories that lays out Angron’s hypocrisy and self loathing, he wishes that he had taken another stand instead of bending to his father’s will when the emperor came for him.
The sadness of the Iron Hands in their obsession with bionics is best exemplified by their motto : "The Flesh is Weak". But it turns out it was said by Vulcan and the Chapter has forgotten about the second part of the quote. "The Flesh is Weak, but Deeds Endure." Really sad how it completely recontexualualises the motto yet the Iron Hands don't know or worse, don't care.
The thing is, they really don't care for Ferrus in the same manner that other chapters revere their Primarch. Ferrus's death, to them, was the confirmation of everything they thought up to that point. Ferrus failed at Istvaan V, because his temper, his flesh got the better of him, causing him to make a rash decision, which lead to his death by the hands of this closest, most trusted brother, Fulgrim. Ferrus's death confirmed, that the flesh is weak, that having emotions makes one weak, that being human is a weakness. And so they became resentful of the flesh, of humanity, of being human(-ish, they're still Astartes). They hate with a passion, but to hate and to be passionate is a weakness to be excised. They try to conceil their hate and wrath behind the "logic" of the machine, behind the easily understandable, non-negotiable binary system of computation as a way to cope with the temper they probably inherit from Ferrus. All in an effort to distance themselves from being human. TL;DR: Yes, they don't care, because they really don't like Ferrus all that much.
@@Joromonni Kardan Stronos is trying to get them out of their habit, true, but as far as I know, he hasn't really been able to effect as much change as he'd like. Which is fair, about 10k years worth of dogma isn't easily erased... That being said: if you want Iron Hands that are in touch with their emotions, just look at the Red Talons :)
The psychological talk was really exciting to listen to! I had already heard the general details of the 40k story on so many great lore channels I at first didn't consider your content worth checking out. One day I was really bored and decided I could go for some 40k with a slightly different narration. Quickly I discovered that you two bring a load of personality and unique insight to these otherwise already familiar stories! Wholesome and introspective with fascinating personal anecdotes :) Subscribed and rang the bell👌
I appreciate the name drop! Glad you liked my comment. As you said, it was mostly speculation and latching on to a character I relate to. I didn’t really go into it, but I find Ferrus’s relationship with his sons tragic. He has been taught and forced by his environment into this personification of toxic masculinity, and in an almost patriarchal way, forces his sons to learn the same lessons. When they begin the self mutilation, he realizes the harm of what he’s done, and the pain he has instilled. He really does care about them, and I think it’s a tragedy he never got to fulfill his promise of helping his sons overcome the hurt he had instilled in them. Not only was he hurt by stoicism, he hurt generations of his descendants with it as well. The Iron Hands and the Mechanicus are the same in obsession with removing the flesh, but they could not be more different in cause. The Mechanicus love being metal, the Iron Hands love nothing. They only hate being flesh. And it is all Ferrus’s fault.
Regarding the interpretation of Ferrus Manus as self-hating: I saw someone posting below here that the Iron Hands are dismissive of their Primarch, since he "failed" when he was killed and thus proved not strong enough. It's possible that this is view they have, I haven't read a huge amount of their lore outside general codices, but I've seen a different take: the Iron Hands hate themselves for failing their primarch. He died because they could not protect him, could not be at his side, could not keep up with him and be his bodyguard. When he died they were overcome with such tremendous shame, self-disgust and inferiority complex that they dove EVEN FURTHER into self-augmentation, in a kind of fatalistic attempt to burn out the humiliation and defeat that came with losing their father. That sense of almost desperate self-loathing traumatizes their chapter even into the 41st millennium, although more on a cultural level than a personal.
42:05 has an error. This is factually wrong. Ferrus and Horus never fought. Horus was the mediator between Dorn and Ferrus. After the battle was over, Ferrus challenged Dorn in an honor duel where each chose a champion to fight for their legion. The primarchs did not fight. It was astartes who represented the legions that fought. Ferrus has a temper, but he does not escalate things to the point it makes primarchs duel for empty reasons.
1:10:35 basically Ferrus was horrified by how machine the future Iron Hand was. Like, said marine was more robot than organic at that point. He basically reacted by demanding everyone leave, and saying that if this was the future he wanted no part of it. And that he'd rather die before seeing his legion turn out this way, and thus wouldn't let it happen. Which adds to the tragedy of the fact that, because he died when he did, his legion turned out the way they did.
I knew about Ferrus seeing a future iron hand, and his reaction to that from a youtube short. But I didn't know his legion, turned out that way because he died.
@WolfBoy-om6dw they turned out the way they did because he died for two reasons. One is he died before he could enact his plan to remove the metal from his hands and tell them to stop. The other is after he died the Iron Hands blamed his death on the fact his emotions (being angry and distraught over Fulgrim's betrayal) caused him to rush into that fight without a plan and thus got himself killed. They took this as proof that emotions amd humanity was bad, while machinery and logic was strong So his death not only meant he couldn't stop it, but also caused his legion to double down on that path
I'm going back to school to finish my psych degree at 40 and I really just love how you both discuss the mentality of these characters and the psychology behind them and the themes about masculinity etc. It's not something I really see in other lore channels and it's so refreshing. Also really cool to hear someone else who is nonbinary talking about getting away from gendered expectations.
Fun fact, even "The flesh is weak" is wrongly understood by Iron Hands. It was a praise given to Ferrus by Vulkan after a long battle against Orks, Ferrus said that his arms were tiring from killing so many Greenskins, to which Vulkan answered "The flesh is weak, but deeds endure." Vulkan meant that even though they were flawed and could tire, what mattered were the deeds that would be remembered by the generations to come, even Primarchs are mortal, but great actions are eternal. The Iron hands understood that they should be as machine as possible ^^
Ferrus was just a big headstrong. Often got a bit ahead of himself. Didn't know how to get ahead in life. Not a good head on his shoulders, you might say.
We could all see where he was heading. He just couldn't keep a cool head when he needed it the most. not a good figurehead for his legion. Imma head out.
I'm really happy with the dive into Ferrus we got here, I think the fact he does lack alot of lore leave gaps that are interesting to speculate about. For example, in what I believe to be his Primarch book there are people who express doubt about how Ferrus got his metal hands, saying that the metal forms too cleanly to his arm, that a thrashing metal beast couldn't have made the metal form like that. I don't think that Ferrus is lying but its clear that the rumor gets to him somewhat, highlights how he fears weakness and being seen as weak (an important idea to keep in mind for "the spat"). Outside that I never heard the excerpt about the medic and I find it really endearing, can't wait to take that story and contrast it with how Peter Turbo handles himself. I also will admit I soyjacked when I heard Ducaines name but I'm that much of a nerd for the 10th. Guilliman holding Ferrus in such high regard (like I know its to avoid too many spoils but wow does Ferrus get glazed) is such an interesting thing that I wish there was a short story explaining it. Perhaps we could get one for Horus as well who I will mention is also a Ferrus glazer. Ultimately, Ferrus really is a tragedy in 40k and it only gets more and more tragic when you see how the Iron Hands handle everything that went down. He only realized the harm his ideas were doing to his legion before it was too late and to see how even aspects of him that can be seen as positive get warped in the wrong ways. Great video, can't wait for Fulgrim and whatever's next.
I relate to Ferus in a bit of a weird way. Growing up I was bullied, I was scrawny and weak. I never tried to become stronger because I didn’t want to turn into the bullies. They had more strength and I associated strength with abuse. The strong take and the weak suffer. Then around 16 I had a car wreck and while I wasn’t hurt the car got stuck on its side. if the car had flipped over the side of the road I would have dropped into the abyss and died. I tried my hardest to open that door on the top and I couldn’t do it. Eventually they brought in a machine and saved me. No one else was hurt and I didn’t hit anyone. But I realized that being weak is being helpless. I never wanted to be helpless like that again. I started working out and I realized that it was mental weakness that caused those who were stronger than me to bully me. They were weak minded and needed to hurt others to feel good about themselves. When I started 40k and learned about Ferus something about his ideology spoke to me. Especially how he said that his mind was the true source of his weakness and he must master it. Is Ferus Manus a good role model? Not in every way. But if you take the good aspects they can become a great source of strength both mental and physical. To have strength and not need it is always better than to need it and not have it. Here’s a paraphrased version to show what I mean A man who can not save himself is weak. And a man unwilling to even try to save himself does not deserve to be saved. For while the flesh is weak we can master it and overcome it. For what is the point of having such strength if not to help others to become strong too? For a man who can not save himself can not save anyone else either. So we go on unstoppable until we shatter all in our way and then we rest to do it again tomorrow. Just my opinions. Great video
I think it’s important that Ferrus’s first memory upon waking up, is being attacked. The Wyrm he could not defeat, and would now terrorize Medusa. He internalized a need to be stronger from this, if not for himself, then to help others.
@@jetlag3717 Huh interesting. So he had a similarly traumatic experience of helplessness and made a vow to himself to become stronger. I didn't see that parallel thanks!
You know I keep thinking about the first Iron Hand to think hey guys let’s cut off our hand and replace it with a cyborg hand prosthetic hand. Dad’s gonna love it! Ferus comes home and 5 of his sons have permanently mutilated themselves he’s horrified internally but he just asks why? And when they say because we love you and want to be just like you… I honestly don’t think I could tell them yeah that’s stupid you idiots have disappointed me no one else do what these clowns did. So everyone else thinks oh okay sure dad liked that let’s all do it! Face palming Ferus meme
I know it's only touched on briefly, but the most tragic thing about the Butcher's Nails weren't just adopted by the World Eaters. Angron actually told the techmarines and apothaceries of his legion to reverse engineer his own Nails and then begin implanting them into the legion.
I just realized they're doing primarchs in order of being found. I was sitting here trying to figure out why we're doing a Ferrus Manus episode. He's a cool guy but there isn't like... a lot of lore about him. lol
There is always an added level of personality and charm you both bring to the 40k talks that i very much enjoy. I knew of the events of Ferrus but never took unto consideration him as a person and just his fate. It does make me think about what my father tried to teach me about manhood and how i, for the most part, entirely rejected it. Very good format as well. Please keep up the amazing work.
I suspect Ferrus if he existed would consider the way he lives as an ideal he is trying to live up to, not something toxic and in need of a total overhaul. I think thats why so many folks dont like talking about toxic masculinity, it comes off as an attack against an ideal they hold deep inside that they want to live up to. As brave, quiet, plain, genuine, direct, etc. That kind of stoic ideal that appeals to a lot of folks because it makes it seem easy to know your place in the world and your role in life. I'm not saying ferrus is right or that the pursuit of this ideal doesn't lead many real people into making serious mistakes but sometimes its ok for folks to choose that stereotypical philosophy, its possible to find purpose and even direction by embracing that way of life even if others find freedom and purpose in abandoning it.
I have been getting into warhammer lately and your videos are one of the reasons i started at all! So thank you. You two making interesting character analysis made me start reading primarch novels (and i absolutely love it) (sorry for bad english. really wanted to thank you guys)
So far, this is my favorite episode, which is weird because I'm a Raven Guard, because of not only the tragedy of Ferrus Manus, but also the fascinating subject of masculinity, amputation, body dysmorphia, solidarity- It was all so good! Really gave me some new perspectives.
I've always seen Ferrus as the perfect example of what men turn into during times of strife and conflict. He holds a very deeply seeded love for his sons but is disgusted that they feel like they have to follow him in his footsteps - a feeling I'm sure many superior army officials feel whenever they are given new recruits. Ferrus also despises the use of his hands but views it as a necessary thing to do which, pretty much sums up the action of war. I think Ferrus is very respectable in that way - someone who puts aside his feelings to get do what must be done.
His metal hands are a tangible manifestation of his trauma, and the hard, unfeeling man he had to become to survive his situation. Something that helped him endure, but which also cut him off from human sensation. Worse, he teaches his sons by example to be as cold and cruel as he is. A mistake he longs to correct, when the war is finally won. And he never gets the chance.
@@Bluecho4 Yes but these aspects of himself are necessary for the situation that he is in. War already makes hard men but galactic war against the likes of Necron, Ork and Eldar would certainly make a man inhuman - like an Astartes or Primarch. This, much like Ferrus' situation, is what must come to pass; it is what has enabled humanity within the setting to survive for as long as it has and though they are notably losing a fraction of what it means to be human, such aspects can be rebuilt. The necessity outweighs the means. I admire that about Ferrus, his indominable will and ability to set aside his own wants and beliefs for the benefit of mankind. Vulkan is a very similar character to Ferrus in that way.
@@Bluecho4 You actually provide a good example of what bothers me about some interpretations of Ferrus and Stoicism as a whole. Ferrus would tell (teach) his sons to be EFFICIENT, but many times that would be interpreted as, "be cold and cruel".
Your guys convos on 40k always brighten up my day. Half the time I know all about what your topic is, but it's nice to hear people talk about things they enjoy like this.
Just found you guys and have been loving watching all the channel, you guys are entertaining as hell please keep the amazing work Currently sitting through Kari mushrooms puns at the ork video 😊
There was another Terra, it was the first planet we hear about in Horus Heresy. "I was there the day Horus killed the Emperor." In which he lays seige to terra, and kills the Emperor. No not that one. I guess it's gone now.
Person born with one hand Kari is right people like us eventually grow proud of the things we learn to do despite the differences for instance I'm an avid gamer and my teammates say that cant tell the difference between me and other players in terms of skill. I also do origami as a hobby and I'm proud of that as I always give away what I make to people. Though what does irritate me at least is people always assuming I can't do something or I'm getting preferential treatment do to it.
Fun fact: The world of Medusa is encompassed by a massive ring called the Telstarax. Its origins lie in the DAoT and it was designed to exploit and process any resources the planet it orbited held. Be it Void ships or a simple clock the Telstarax could produce it within its massive foundries and manufacturing bays.
Which is also implied to be the reason Ferrus was found this early in the Great Crusade, despite having landed really near to the immense "DO NOT COME HERE" sign in the galaxy that is the Eye of Terror, as the AdMech naturally would have had a large interest in returning such a world back into their fold. Also, I find it humorous that, despite all of Ferrus's obvious failings, especially regarding his emotional stability, he was still being perceived to be a really good commander, which is why, despite being found after Leman, it was Ferrus who was at that point given command over 1/3 of the entire Great Crusade engagements, with the other thirds being headed by Horus and Big E respectively. (Granted, being a more level headed, reliable battle field commander than Russ is not exactly a high bar to beat.)
Out of the primarchs so far, Ferus is my favorite. There’s something awe inspiring about his brutal simplicity and honesty that I can get behind. And of ALL his brothers he feels VERY meritocratic.
29:38 as a fellow dyslexic I completely relate to how your school experience. I share the exact same worries and opinions that you do about how it feels taking longer on learning things and other things of the sort sometimes it does get to you, knowing that you take longer than most. I completely understand how you feel I’m still currently going through that as I am in high school. Love your warrhammer vids praise grandfather Nergull
This is by far your funniest episode! The puppet presenters and "he's got a good head on his shoulders" line made me cough on my smoke and get into a cough/giggle fit 😂
I am wheelchair bound, and I have to have to add you gave one of the best explinations of acomidations and exeptions I heard in a long time. And how there is a weird dubbel edges sword thing going on whit all this.
i think one of the best examples of space marines wanting to be like their primarchs was when tzeentch gave a blood angel wings so he can look like sanguinius then his iological brother who also is a space marine killed him
54:10 For anyone who doesn’t know what Sorted is the sentence “one guy is really into meat … and the other guy … and they come together” is absolutely wild
Thanks you for making this series because it actually is helping me tell my girlfriend about Warhammer because she wants to get to know my hobby and I can’t tell here they way I should with the complicity of Warhammer
The iron hands have to be one of my favorite legions. And the only reason I don’t play them on the table top, is that there is next to no chance of Ferrus coming back, and I want fancy centerpiece man for my army. On a side note that has lead to me not being able to chose a marine chapter, currently I’m either favoring the imperial fists or ultra marines, or maybe raven guard becuse Corvus is a cool dude their color is sick, but I want my big tanks and guns so it doesn’t fir Raven guard very much :(.
Their doing the order of primarchs found during the great crusade after ferris manus is fulgrim(5th) vulkan (6th) Rogal dorn (7th) Roubute Guilliman (8th) Magnus the red (9th) sanguinius (10th) lion el Johnson (11th) perturabo (12th) mortarion (13th) lorgar (14th) jaghatai Kahn (15th) Konrad curze (16th) Angron (17th) Corvus corax (18th) lost primarch (19th) Alpharus Omegon (20th) the numbers beside the primarch is the order they are found.
Rats and Lizards in space is a thing in the 3rd party 40k offshoot game One Page Rules: Grimdark Future. There's not a lot of lore for them yet cause they are just getting started on, but the rats are already one of my favorites. They have a whole secrets of N.I.M.H. thing going on where they were experiments that escaped and consequently their whole schtick as a faction is valuing freedom over all else to the point that they will join onto other worlds' conflicts if one of the sides is fighting for their own freedom. It's pretty great.
It interesting to hear you discuss Ferrus before fulgrim. I did it the other way and after hearing the tragedy that befell ferrus it made me appreciate the lore and stories he’s apart of more. I like that despite he’s immense strength and talents, because his hands aren’t his own he feels he’s still weak. So when I hear him talk about wanting to fix himself, so he can fix his sons is so interesting. Also can’t wait for you to talk about the lion and the Kahn and dorn. All guys that seem simple and basic that I personally feel are so much deeper.
I don't agree with Ferrus being a person of hate, not fully at least. I myself am quick on the draw with my temper as well and I don't feel like i'm a hateful person, even if people may think i am yknow? I think he's more a person of struggle. Strife may be a better word. Cause he even states how he wants to change, wants to be better but something keeps holding him back. I may not agree with his politics but i do relate to him quite a bit in certain regards, specially the whole "Why have it all fancy? Just make it functional", and I feel like if he was hateful he wouldn't want to be better. Dig?
35:00 i myself regularly have to fight that urge to replace my limbs with prosthetics, and if we had general cybernetics i likely would have gone full mechanicus already.
We know little about Ferrus Manus due to the lack of books, we really need more books. The Man named Iron hands with his Iron hands and his legion called the Iron hands in his ship called the Fist of Iron, needs more books, preferably made from Iron.
As somebody who has read through more than half of the books in the Horus Heresy, losing Ferrus was honestly one of the coolest plot points that could’ve happened for what it does to his Legion. You’re able to get so many interesting characters trying to deal with the trauma of losing their Primarch. It makes his entire Legion underdogs who are shattered, but desperately trying to fight back, and they are often some of the most central characters in books that aren’t even about their Legion. So many times in other books, you see a squad or even just a single Iron Hand show up, and they just absolutely destroy in the name of their fallen father.
This is a really lovely series! I’m just now getting into Warhammer stuff and it’s really cool to have fellow queer folks who I can watch cool videos from about it!
In most cases It's (system name) [number], where the innermost planet is 1 and then increasing as you move outwards. using this naming convention Earth/Terra would be 'Sol III'. a notable (and rather topical) case would the Isstvan system, where two pivotal betrayals in the Horus Heresy happened. Isstvan III, where Horus, Fulgrim, and Angron sent the sections of their legions that they felt were to loyal to the Emperor to capture the planet, and then virus bombed the entire thing. Isstvan V, where the Dropsite Massacre happened, Ferrus got a head shorter, and the Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and the Night Lords, turned on the Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard.
Ferrus, like many beings from 30k, would absolutely hate whats has become of his people in 40k, he believed enhancement through machine, not replacement
This hit close as someone who tries to have a stoic outlook on life after years of being alone and failing to connect to anyone… and also being bi and non-binary was an unexpected shared trait with Ava haha it makes me happy to see someone with my own issues have a happy ending with it 😊
I can’t remember exactly when Kari started talking about Mami, but I’ve got two things to say about it. First, I can only react with the those who know meme, and second, I can’t wait for Explaining Magical Girls To My Boyfriend! Beyond that, since I may as well make this a big comment so I don't post multiple times, this video was fantastic! The videos you guys make get better every time, and I'm always excited for the next one. Ava you 100% succeeded in making Ferrus Manus cool, he's awesome! Also the psychological talk from Kari taught me a lot of things; like, I didn’t know about Body Integrity Dysphoria until today. I not only learned more about Warhammer 40k, but I also learned more about life in general. That talk you guys had about appropriation and accommodation was really enlightening. Overall this video was fantastic, and I loved every second of it! I can’t wait for the episode on Fulgrim. Also I adore Fulgrim's design, he's so cute & sexy at the same time. I love you guys! P.S That comment you guys read about Ferrus Manus being a man of hate was really good, props to the person who made that!
As the episodes go on, I am more and more excited for the Rogal Dorn episode! The way his view of the universe changes as the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy take place are some of my favorite developments out of any of the primarchs (and by extension, how it effects his sons) and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it!
Angron is my favorite Primarch. He is my brother's favorite Primarch. As someone who struggles with intense mood disregulation, we love him. So it makes me very happy that Ava loves Khorne because I hope they do my angry boy justice.
There is something about how you guys relate these stories to real life that makes these videos infinitely better than most warhammer lore video its also really nice hearing people talk about gender roles and such from a non political iust accepting and understanding i have put some thought into all of that myself and while im pretty confident that i am a asexual dude it is extremely cathartic to not have to worry thinking that im crazy and acknowleding there are more than just one way to exist idk what else to say than thank you for mixing this in with warhammer journey
something that 40k lore is missing, theres not one primarch that just tells big E to fuck off and refuses to serve. even angron who gets screwed by him still submits, i want one of the lost primarchs to be entirely uncooperative or outright hostile to big E from the start.
@@emotionjournal ghilliemoon wasnt single mindedly loyal like russ or lion'el but he was always a company man. not one take a stand. i want, if the 2 ever get explained, a primarch that's defiant. that tells emps to his face that he's wrong. obviously they'd have to cave in the end to be consistent with the lore and actually have a story rather than emps killing them immediately. but them being ideologically opposed to the great crusade and half ass-ing their assignment until, well, whatever they did to get redacted.
Apologies that there's a bit of a volume difference between us! This, Fulgrim, and Valkia the Bloody's episode was recorded before we got a microphone upgrade so going forward audio should be clean! ❤💙
Im preety sure it has something to do with the hands.
awesome episode cant wait for the next one .
because fulgrim is still out there i expect a chunky episode and that would be awesome :0
So there _is_ a Fulgrim episode oncoming. Excellent. Might I also ask when/if the Explaining Digimon episode will be?
I’m looking forward to your episode on Fulgrim. One thing I’ve always found fascinating about him is that he has the backstory you’d expect Peter Turbo to have, and Peter Turbo has his backstory. Between the two of them which one do you expect to have been raised a pampered princeling and which one do you expect, to literally clawed the way up from the sludge of a crippled industrial world?
I hope you mention the meme around Fulgrim and clones of Ferrus in the next video. That shit was funny as hell when I found out about it.
I've heard that it's poor edict to show up to a Warhammer 40K game with unpainted Minis but I can just imagine someone coming in to play with an army of unpainted Iron Hands and when someone calls them out on it they simply say, "Ferrus would not care if they were painted, only if they could be used".
And if they don't like it, dunk them in a bucket of black paint and voilà. A 90% finished Iron Hands army.
@Nelekmaar why does that seem like an unironically good idea
@@louis7059Because it is VERY close to the ACTUAL solution : spray paint.
Psssccchiiiii and there you go, tin can.
To clarify planet naming schemes; it's the same as star trek's system, where each planet is named after the star and given a number depending on which order they are from their star. So Earth would be known as Sol 3, since we're the 3rd planet from the star Sol.
You referred to HOLY TERRA as WHAT??!?
You dare desecrate the name of Holy Terra to the likes of some outer agri-world? The Inquisition would like a word.
@@CEO-of-money I am a servant of the Mechanicus. The inquisition can bite my shiny metal ass
@@blender7 okay toaster boy, go jerk off to the ungodly amount of hidden DAoT war winning blueprints you have piled in your damn storage closet for no reason.
That's not ENTIRELY true. Imperial cartographers generally assign an alphanumeric designation to most planets, usually those that haven't been colonized, but other worlds are given actual names. Case in point? Well, Earth is called Terra, the moon is still called Luna, Mars is still called Mars, and Pluto is still called Pluto, and none of these to my knowledge are listed as 'Sol-X' or what have you. Likewise, the typical naming convention of referring to planets by designators like 'Primus', 'Secundus' or 'Tertias' does happen, but then you have cases like, say, Armageddon Secundus, which isn't another planet in the Armageddon System, but rather just the southern hemisphere of Armageddon. Meanwhile Baal Secundus refers to Baalfor, one of the twin moons of Baal, but the moon of Kiavahr is called 'Deliverance'. So there isn't really any consistency in the naming conventions, which tracks when you consider that nobody even knows what the bloody years is in the Imperium due to issues with the calendar system for over 10,000 years.
Me: "Oh, boy, another video by Numbskulls! Imma watch it!"
Also me as I see the face-hands: "So this is gonna be one of THOSE days, is it?"
The hands talking about psychological issues somehow tickles my twisted sense of humor. 😂😂😂
It's exactly why this channel should have 10 times more subscribers
You know I keep thinking about the first Iron Hand to think hey guys let’s cut off our hand and replace it with a cyborg hand prosthetic hand. Dad’s gonna love it!
Ferus comes home and 5 of his sons have permanently mutilated themselves he’s horrified internally but he just asks why? And when they say because we love you and want to be just like you…
I honestly don’t think I could tell them yeah that’s stupid you idiots have disappointed me no one else do what these clowns did.
So everyone else thinks oh okay sure dad liked that let’s all do it! Face palming Ferus meme
Ferrus Manus and the Iron Hands were primarily responsible for the field-testing and drafting of tactical doctrine concerning the use of numerous pieces of Astartes-Grade wargear, with their most notable contribution being Terminator armor. The Indomitus pattern suit that we all know and love today is a direct result of the Iron Hands’ tinkering. And their findings with their research informed a large portion of what would eventually become the Codex Astartes. If it involves terminators, dreadnoughts, or tanks, the Iron Hands wrote the book on it. As a result of their close work with the Mechanicum, they amassed the most technologically advanced armory out of all the Astartes legions, and they used it with pride and gusto in every battle they fought.
For this reason, and many others, Horus greatly desired Ferrus to join him when he turned traitor. It’s also the reason that Horus was quaking in his frilly little gumboots when he found out Fulgrim tipped their hand, and Ferrus wasn’t going to be joining them for their rebellion. Horus orchestrated the Dropsite massacre to remove the Iron Hands from the field as quickly and cleanly as possible because he KNEW that the Iron Hands were going to be the biggest threat to his plans. Even if the traitors were able to annihilate the Iron Hands in the march to Terra, the traitors would be LIMPING into Terra’s orbit, if they even made it there at all. He had to get rid of them ASAP. And Istvaan didn’t even work all that well. It took the combined efforts of 8 traitor legions as well as numerous traitor Mechanicum and Exertis assets to bring down about 2/3rds of the legion, and even still, many of those Iron Hands survived the Dropsite massacre and went on to rally the Raven guard and salamanders into the Shattered Legions to be a MASSIVE pain in the ass for the traitors their whole way back to Terra.
And besides, as someone who had a prosthetic leg from age 5, and always felt super self-conscious about it, I naturally gravitated towards the Iron Hands. They taught me that my leg isn’t holding me back, it’s a showing of my strength as a person, that I carry on despite being at a disadvantage.
The flesh is weak, but deeds endure, brother.
Thanks for the info dump!
Of all the Primarchs, Ferrus Manus always appeared to me as "elder brother" coded. Despite all the primarchs basically being the same age, he comes across as the oldest somehow, sometimes with a bit of a mentor status to him, but an imperfect one. He experienced tragedy early in a way few of his brothers did and mildly resented them for it even as he came to love them in a way he couldn't express. The Lion is the most emotionally closed off of them, another figure that is seen as somehow being an older brother among "equals", but I wish we'd gotten to see him and Ferrus interact more, because I feel like the two overly masculine primarchs might have found someone who understood the masks they both have to wear.
It very much feels like the first few publicly found primarchs (Horus, Russ, and Ferrus) ended up as the quasi older siblings, but in different ways.
@@DetectiveLance He was. Ferrus was respected by most, because he has proven his capabilities time and again, because his harsh, blunt nature lends itself to honest council. And, because he lead one of the most reliable Legions (turns out, drowning the opposition in heavy artillery fire and rolling over the remains with heavy tanks tends to annihilate stuff), not to mention he was for a time charged with leading a third of the Great Crusade's forces alongside Big E and Horus while Russ was still busy getting the hang of using speaking rather than bark and growl at everyone.
Funnily enough, he was also the tallest of the Primarchs, standing a head taller (heh) than Vulcan, who was/is admittedly bulkier/broader than Ferrus; but how much of a role that bit played is debated xD
YES.
Aw was a mega touching final few minutes of the vid
Second oldest. The Lion is the oldest brother.
@2:29 “His neck?”
Didn’t miss a beat and stuck the landing on the quintessential Ferrus Manus meme.
She’s one of us now!
"I'll pretend to be a Salamander"
Kari LIVES!!!! *Stomp *Stomp
Kari LIVES!
The discussion of the WE and Angron and the cancer analogy made me realize that the WE may see the butchers nails as shaving their heads in solidarity, but to Angron it's a bunch of people he already doesn't like saying "WE GAVE OURSELVES CANCER TO BE LIKE YOU! DO YOU LOVE US NOW?"
Didn’t Angron force the nails on his men though? (Genuinely unsure)
@@Erinya558 Yes. And he did that because, to him, they weren't his men. His men died on Desh'ea.
It's like meeting a 'nice guy' who stalks you and constantly talks big about how much they love you even though you neverknew them before. Eventually, he snapped and said "If you love me so much go lobotomize yourselves!". And they did. And he hated them for it.
@@rakshithanand8262its also a point that gets brought up in the “Lord of the Red Sands” short story. Angron cradles one of the loyalist, a dying World Eater attacked him. Angron is proud of him for fighting so hard against him. He even smiles when the space marine points out that he wounded Angron. Angron has repeatedly said that if he believed if he was whole or a better person he would have turned on the Emperor from day one. He ends up ranting at the dying marine about how he is now free but it always read as a desperate attempt to convince himself. It seemed to be more about how he respects the choice to die for something rather than go along with something they don’t believe in. It is one of the stories that lays out Angron’s hypocrisy and self loathing, he wishes that he had taken another stand instead of bending to his father’s will when the emperor came for him.
“He is a skull ghost, a skost.”
-Vulkan and Fulgrim describing seeing the ghost of Ferrus
Vulkan and Corvus.
The sadness of the Iron Hands in their obsession with bionics is best exemplified by their motto : "The Flesh is Weak". But it turns out it was said by Vulcan and the Chapter has forgotten about the second part of the quote. "The Flesh is Weak, but Deeds Endure." Really sad how it completely recontexualualises the motto yet the Iron Hands don't know or worse, don't care.
The thing is, they really don't care for Ferrus in the same manner that other chapters revere their Primarch. Ferrus's death, to them, was the confirmation of everything they thought up to that point. Ferrus failed at Istvaan V, because his temper, his flesh got the better of him, causing him to make a rash decision, which lead to his death by the hands of this closest, most trusted brother, Fulgrim.
Ferrus's death confirmed, that the flesh is weak, that having emotions makes one weak, that being human is a weakness.
And so they became resentful of the flesh, of humanity, of being human(-ish, they're still Astartes). They hate with a passion, but to hate and to be passionate is a weakness to be excised. They try to conceil their hate and wrath behind the "logic" of the machine, behind the easily understandable, non-negotiable binary system of computation as a way to cope with the temper they probably inherit from Ferrus. All in an effort to distance themselves from being human.
TL;DR: Yes, they don't care, because they really don't like Ferrus all that much.
To be fair they are now starting to embrace their emotions, they probably wont stop bionics but they're progressing.
@@Joromonni Kardan Stronos is trying to get them out of their habit, true, but as far as I know, he hasn't really been able to effect as much change as he'd like. Which is fair, about 10k years worth of dogma isn't easily erased...
That being said: if you want Iron Hands that are in touch with their emotions, just look at the Red Talons :)
So sad...
I can't get enough of Kari's decapitation puns. I was laughing this whole episode. Love you two! ❤️
I wish she didn't "cut off" the jokes, ngl
This should be fun. I know literally nothing about this dude.
He's Iron Hands, primarch of the Iron Hands, and his strike cruiser is named the Fist of Iron. And he has metal hands.
@@DetectiveLanceand hes dead...thats about it
Average 40K fan
@@diegojimenez5937 [Insert dumb head joke]
And you know everything
The psychological talk was really exciting to listen to!
I had already heard the general details of the 40k story on so many great lore channels I at first didn't consider your content worth checking out.
One day I was really bored and decided I could go for some 40k with a slightly different narration.
Quickly I discovered that you two bring a load of personality and unique insight to these otherwise already familiar stories!
Wholesome and introspective with fascinating personal anecdotes :) Subscribed and rang the bell👌
I appreciate the name drop! Glad you liked my comment. As you said, it was mostly speculation and latching on to a character I relate to. I didn’t really go into it, but I find Ferrus’s relationship with his sons tragic. He has been taught and forced by his environment into this personification of toxic masculinity, and in an almost patriarchal way, forces his sons to learn the same lessons. When they begin the self mutilation, he realizes the harm of what he’s done, and the pain he has instilled. He really does care about them, and I think it’s a tragedy he never got to fulfill his promise of helping his sons overcome the hurt he had instilled in them. Not only was he hurt by stoicism, he hurt generations of his descendants with it as well. The Iron Hands and the Mechanicus are the same in obsession with removing the flesh, but they could not be more different in cause. The Mechanicus love being metal, the Iron Hands love nothing. They only hate being flesh. And it is all Ferrus’s fault.
Regarding the interpretation of Ferrus Manus as self-hating: I saw someone posting below here that the Iron Hands are dismissive of their Primarch, since he "failed" when he was killed and thus proved not strong enough. It's possible that this is view they have, I haven't read a huge amount of their lore outside general codices, but I've seen a different take: the Iron Hands hate themselves for failing their primarch. He died because they could not protect him, could not be at his side, could not keep up with him and be his bodyguard. When he died they were overcome with such tremendous shame, self-disgust and inferiority complex that they dove EVEN FURTHER into self-augmentation, in a kind of fatalistic attempt to burn out the humiliation and defeat that came with losing their father. That sense of almost desperate self-loathing traumatizes their chapter even into the 41st millennium, although more on a cultural level than a personal.
If I rember right they believe he will return somehow and they get mad when anyone points out he straight up died
42:05 has an error. This is factually wrong. Ferrus and Horus never fought. Horus was the mediator between Dorn and Ferrus. After the battle was over, Ferrus challenged Dorn in an honor duel where each chose a champion to fight for their legion. The primarchs did not fight. It was astartes who represented the legions that fought. Ferrus has a temper, but he does not escalate things to the point it makes primarchs duel for empty reasons.
Since she reads the comments.... spoiler alert:
Starscream dies in the transformers 1984 movie
Dude come on
"This is bad comedy."
*Gasp* How dare you!?
1:10:35 basically Ferrus was horrified by how machine the future Iron Hand was. Like, said marine was more robot than organic at that point. He basically reacted by demanding everyone leave, and saying that if this was the future he wanted no part of it. And that he'd rather die before seeing his legion turn out this way, and thus wouldn't let it happen.
Which adds to the tragedy of the fact that, because he died when he did, his legion turned out the way they did.
I knew about Ferrus seeing a future iron hand, and his reaction to that from a youtube short. But I didn't know his legion, turned out that way because he died.
@WolfBoy-om6dw they turned out the way they did because he died for two reasons. One is he died before he could enact his plan to remove the metal from his hands and tell them to stop. The other is after he died the Iron Hands blamed his death on the fact his emotions (being angry and distraught over Fulgrim's betrayal) caused him to rush into that fight without a plan and thus got himself killed. They took this as proof that emotions amd humanity was bad, while machinery and logic was strong
So his death not only meant he couldn't stop it, but also caused his legion to double down on that path
@@thewerdna That's really sad.
0:29 I’m honestly not sure if Kari was making a reference to 40K Salamanders, or to actual salamanders. Both feel equally likely
I'm going back to school to finish my psych degree at 40 and I really just love how you both discuss the mentality of these characters and the psychology behind them and the themes about masculinity etc. It's not something I really see in other lore channels and it's so refreshing. Also really cool to hear someone else who is nonbinary talking about getting away from gendered expectations.
I love it too man!
Googlie eyes on the iron hands is something i need
Fun fact, even "The flesh is weak" is wrongly understood by Iron Hands. It was a praise given to Ferrus by Vulkan after a long battle against Orks, Ferrus said that his arms were tiring from killing so many Greenskins, to which Vulkan answered "The flesh is weak, but deeds endure."
Vulkan meant that even though they were flawed and could tire, what mattered were the deeds that would be remembered by the generations to come, even Primarchs are mortal, but great actions are eternal. The Iron hands understood that they should be as machine as possible ^^
Ferrus was just a big headstrong. Often got a bit ahead of himself. Didn't know how to get ahead in life. Not a good head on his shoulders, you might say.
We could all see where he was heading. He just couldn't keep a cool head when he needed it the most. not a good figurehead for his legion. Imma head out.
shame he wasn't neckstrong
@@panda62845if he was Iron Neck he’d have been fine.
Sir/Ma'am, you are simply puntastic. You have my outmost respect.
@@Fordo007 A NeckBeard Ferrus would have been immune to beheading. 😂
I fall asleep listening to your conversations every night.. thank you for your content. Just pure comfort listening to you 😊
I'm really happy with the dive into Ferrus we got here, I think the fact he does lack alot of lore leave gaps that are interesting to speculate about. For example, in what I believe to be his Primarch book there are people who express doubt about how Ferrus got his metal hands, saying that the metal forms too cleanly to his arm, that a thrashing metal beast couldn't have made the metal form like that. I don't think that Ferrus is lying but its clear that the rumor gets to him somewhat, highlights how he fears weakness and being seen as weak (an important idea to keep in mind for "the spat").
Outside that I never heard the excerpt about the medic and I find it really endearing, can't wait to take that story and contrast it with how Peter Turbo handles himself. I also will admit I soyjacked when I heard Ducaines name but I'm that much of a nerd for the 10th.
Guilliman holding Ferrus in such high regard (like I know its to avoid too many spoils but wow does Ferrus get glazed) is such an interesting thing that I wish there was a short story explaining it. Perhaps we could get one for Horus as well who I will mention is also a Ferrus glazer.
Ultimately, Ferrus really is a tragedy in 40k and it only gets more and more tragic when you see how the Iron Hands handle everything that went down. He only realized the harm his ideas were doing to his legion before it was too late and to see how even aspects of him that can be seen as positive get warped in the wrong ways. Great video, can't wait for Fulgrim and whatever's next.
I relate to Ferus in a bit of a weird way. Growing up I was bullied, I was scrawny and weak. I never tried to become stronger because I didn’t want to turn into the bullies. They had more strength and I associated strength with abuse. The strong take and the weak suffer.
Then around 16 I had a car wreck and while I wasn’t hurt the car got stuck on its side. if the car had flipped over the side of the road I would have dropped into the abyss and died. I tried my hardest to open that door on the top and I couldn’t do it. Eventually they brought in a machine and saved me. No one else was hurt and I didn’t hit anyone. But I realized that being weak is being helpless. I never wanted to be helpless like that again.
I started working out and I realized that it was mental weakness that caused those who were stronger than me to bully me. They were weak minded and needed to hurt others to feel good about themselves. When I started 40k and learned about Ferus something about his ideology spoke to me.
Especially how he said that his mind was the true source of his weakness and he must master it.
Is Ferus Manus a good role model? Not in every way. But if you take the good aspects they can become a great source of strength both mental and physical. To have strength and not need it is always better than to need it and not have it. Here’s a paraphrased version to show what I mean
A man who can not save himself is weak. And a man unwilling to even try to save himself does not deserve to be saved. For while the flesh is weak we can master it and overcome it. For what is the point of having such strength if not to help others to become strong too? For a man who can not save himself can not save anyone else either. So we go on unstoppable until we shatter all in our way and then we rest to do it again tomorrow.
Just my opinions. Great video
I'm glad you found a kinship with ferrus and I'm glad you survived the car crash.
@@theorcamafia Thanks : ) Me too.
I think it’s important that Ferrus’s first memory upon waking up, is being attacked. The Wyrm he could not defeat, and would now terrorize Medusa. He internalized a need to be stronger from this, if not for himself, then to help others.
@@jetlag3717 Huh interesting. So he had a similarly traumatic experience of helplessness and made a vow to himself to become stronger. I didn't see that parallel thanks!
You know I keep thinking about the first Iron Hand to think hey guys let’s cut off our hand and replace it with a cyborg hand prosthetic hand. Dad’s gonna love it!
Ferus comes home and 5 of his sons have permanently mutilated themselves he’s horrified internally but he just asks why? And when they say because we love you and want to be just like you…
I honestly don’t think I could tell them yeah that’s stupid you idiots have disappointed me no one else do what these clowns did.
So everyone else thinks oh okay sure dad liked that let’s all do it! Face palming Ferus meme
Damn! Kari was fast with that snarky "his neck" in response to where did he leave off?"
I know it's only touched on briefly, but the most tragic thing about the Butcher's Nails weren't just adopted by the World Eaters. Angron actually told the techmarines and apothaceries of his legion to reverse engineer his own Nails and then begin implanting them into the legion.
Iron hand puppets are funnier than 90% of Ferrus jokes, this needed some brain power...
I'll see myself out
I just realized they're doing primarchs in order of being found. I was sitting here trying to figure out why we're doing a Ferrus Manus episode. He's a cool guy but there isn't like... a lot of lore about him. lol
Kari, Thank you for the Madoka PTSD. I haven’t thought about that show in a long while… the memories are now unrespressed.
Not 5 minutes in and we got Mami mention and head jokes, this is the life!
There is always an added level of personality and charm you both bring to the 40k talks that i very much enjoy.
I knew of the events of Ferrus but never took unto consideration him as a person and just his fate.
It does make me think about what my father tried to teach me about manhood and how i, for the most part, entirely rejected it.
Very good format as well. Please keep up the amazing work.
47:15 VULKAN MENTIONED. REJOICE FELLOW SALAMANDERS
STOMP STOMP VULKAN LIVES STOMP STOMP
Yei!!!
STOMP STOMP
I suspect Ferrus if he existed would consider the way he lives as an ideal he is trying to live up to, not something toxic and in need of a total overhaul. I think thats why so many folks dont like talking about toxic masculinity, it comes off as an attack against an ideal they hold deep inside that they want to live up to. As brave, quiet, plain, genuine, direct, etc. That kind of stoic ideal that appeals to a lot of folks because it makes it seem easy to know your place in the world and your role in life. I'm not saying ferrus is right or that the pursuit of this ideal doesn't lead many real people into making serious mistakes but sometimes its ok for folks to choose that stereotypical philosophy, its possible to find purpose and even direction by embracing that way of life even if others find freedom and purpose in abandoning it.
Another tie in to the planet Medusa he dies just like Medusa did.
I have been getting into warhammer lately and your videos are one of the reasons i started at all! So thank you. You two making interesting character analysis made me start reading primarch novels (and i absolutely love it)
(sorry for bad english. really wanted to thank you guys)
So far, this is my favorite episode, which is weird because I'm a Raven Guard, because of not only the tragedy of Ferrus Manus, but also the fascinating subject of masculinity, amputation, body dysmorphia, solidarity- It was all so good! Really gave me some new perspectives.
The gauntlet faces are absolutely sending me. My sides are in orbit.
I'm getting big Guts and Griffith energy from these two. Ferrus and Fulgrim
If only Ferrus had a giant sword... 😔
Good to see someone else also sees it like that-
@@NUMBSKULLS if only 😢
@@NUMBSKULLS I mean he does have a huge hammer 😞🔨
The fan art exists
I've always seen Ferrus as the perfect example of what men turn into during times of strife and conflict. He holds a very deeply seeded love for his sons but is disgusted that they feel like they have to follow him in his footsteps - a feeling I'm sure many superior army officials feel whenever they are given new recruits. Ferrus also despises the use of his hands but views it as a necessary thing to do which, pretty much sums up the action of war. I think Ferrus is very respectable in that way - someone who puts aside his feelings to get do what must be done.
His metal hands are a tangible manifestation of his trauma, and the hard, unfeeling man he had to become to survive his situation. Something that helped him endure, but which also cut him off from human sensation. Worse, he teaches his sons by example to be as cold and cruel as he is. A mistake he longs to correct, when the war is finally won.
And he never gets the chance.
@@Bluecho4 Yes but these aspects of himself are necessary for the situation that he is in. War already makes hard men but galactic war against the likes of Necron, Ork and Eldar would certainly make a man inhuman - like an Astartes or Primarch. This, much like Ferrus' situation, is what must come to pass; it is what has enabled humanity within the setting to survive for as long as it has and though they are notably losing a fraction of what it means to be human, such aspects can be rebuilt.
The necessity outweighs the means.
I admire that about Ferrus, his indominable will and ability to set aside his own wants and beliefs for the benefit of mankind. Vulkan is a very similar character to Ferrus in that way.
@@Bluecho4 You actually provide a good example of what bothers me about some interpretations of Ferrus and Stoicism as a whole. Ferrus would tell (teach) his sons to be EFFICIENT, but many times that would be interpreted as, "be cold and cruel".
"Explain madoka magica to my boyfriend " When!?!?!?
Your guys convos on 40k always brighten up my day. Half the time I know all about what your topic is, but it's nice to hear people talk about things they enjoy like this.
Havnt watched the full ep, I just cannot express how much I love the iron hands avatars lmao
"stop bullying him" "Im not, im bullying you, he's dead" i creased
53:31
Brisingr!
ERAGON REFERENCE..... I love you for this Kari, thank you.
Also, can we have another series?
Explaining Inheritance cycle to my BF!
Oh hell yeah! I would love to see that :D
Just found you guys and have been loving watching all the channel, you guys are entertaining as hell please keep the amazing work
Currently sitting through Kari mushrooms puns at the ork video 😊
There was another Terra, it was the first planet we hear about in Horus Heresy.
"I was there the day Horus killed the Emperor." In which he lays seige to terra, and kills the Emperor. No not that one.
I guess it's gone now.
Person born with one hand Kari is right people like us eventually grow proud of the things we learn to do despite the differences for instance I'm an avid gamer and my teammates say that cant tell the difference between me and other players in terms of skill.
I also do origami as a hobby and I'm proud of that as I always give away what I make to people.
Though what does irritate me at least is people always assuming I can't do something or I'm getting preferential treatment do to it.
This whole video is just the primarch talking to himself
Fun fact: The world of Medusa is encompassed by a massive ring called the Telstarax. Its origins lie in the DAoT and it was designed to exploit and process any resources the planet it orbited held.
Be it Void ships or a simple clock the Telstarax could produce it within its massive foundries and manufacturing bays.
Which is also implied to be the reason Ferrus was found this early in the Great Crusade, despite having landed really near to the immense "DO NOT COME HERE" sign in the galaxy that is the Eye of Terror, as the AdMech naturally would have had a large interest in returning such a world back into their fold.
Also, I find it humorous that, despite all of Ferrus's obvious failings, especially regarding his emotional stability, he was still being perceived to be a really good commander, which is why, despite being found after Leman, it was Ferrus who was at that point given command over 1/3 of the entire Great Crusade engagements, with the other thirds being headed by Horus and Big E respectively. (Granted, being a more level headed, reliable battle field commander than Russ is not exactly a high bar to beat.)
"He would get along with Emet-Selch."
I almost choked with laughter at that... 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thank you for your perspective on Warhammer and 40k. You have helped a dad explain to his teen kids why he likes these universes.
Out of the primarchs so far, Ferus is my favorite. There’s something awe inspiring about his brutal simplicity and honesty that I can get behind. And of ALL his brothers he feels VERY meritocratic.
You two are absolutely adorable! This series is so much fun and I wish you nothing but happiness
29:38 as a fellow dyslexic I completely relate to how your school experience. I share the exact same worries and opinions that you do about how it feels taking longer on learning things and other things of the sort sometimes it does get to you, knowing that you take longer than most. I completely understand how you feel I’m still currently going through that as I am in high school. Love your warrhammer vids praise grandfather Nergull
This is by far your funniest episode! The puppet presenters and "he's got a good head on his shoulders" line made me cough on my smoke and get into a cough/giggle fit 😂
I am wheelchair bound, and I have to have to add you gave one of the best explinations of acomidations and exeptions I heard in a long time. And how there is a weird dubbel edges sword thing going on whit all this.
i think one of the best examples of space marines wanting to be like their primarchs was when tzeentch gave a blood angel wings so he can look like sanguinius then his iological brother who also is a space marine killed him
AT LAST NEW FARRUS MANUS CONTENT
Always love these vids, very informative, very fun, y’all are great!
54:10 For anyone who doesn’t know what Sorted is the sentence “one guy is really into meat … and the other guy … and they come together” is absolutely wild
Thanks you for making this series because it actually is helping me tell my girlfriend about Warhammer because she wants to get to know my hobby and I can’t tell here they way I should with the complicity of Warhammer
Iron Hands of the Iron Hands has (not quite) iron hands
Let's talk about Mr. Iron Hand himself
Oh, the Ferrus Manus episode. I wonder what funny costumes pur hosts will be wearing-
*sees two talking gauntlets*
WHAT THE FU-
I know, it’s amazing
0:15 a little late for that
I missed you guys.
My two favorite lil goobers.☺
The iron hands have to be one of my favorite legions. And the only reason I don’t play them on the table top, is that there is next to no chance of Ferrus coming back, and I want fancy centerpiece man for my army. On a side note that has lead to me not being able to chose a marine chapter, currently I’m either favoring the imperial fists or ultra marines, or maybe raven guard becuse Corvus is a cool dude their color is sick, but I want my big tanks and guns so it doesn’t fir Raven guard very much :(.
Their doing the order of primarchs found during the great crusade after ferris manus is fulgrim(5th) vulkan (6th) Rogal dorn (7th) Roubute Guilliman (8th) Magnus the red (9th) sanguinius (10th) lion el Johnson (11th) perturabo (12th) mortarion (13th) lorgar (14th) jaghatai Kahn (15th) Konrad curze (16th) Angron (17th) Corvus corax (18th) lost primarch (19th) Alpharus Omegon (20th) the numbers beside the primarch is the order they are found.
Wasn't Alpharius the 1st and never even left terra?! ... or maybe... he did?!... who knows...
@@GolemNo.09 yes but his twin was the 20th found plus Alpharus is a liar
@@Scholar_of_Lore yeah right. So he kinda is the first AND last, alpha and omega. Gj jamesworkshore
So that means, next they shouldn't talk about Fulgrim, but about [REDACTED] instead, right?
@@senor-achopijo3841 they will do fulgrim next
7:25 I caught that Titan A.E. reference there. Nice.
Rats and Lizards in space is a thing in the 3rd party 40k offshoot game One Page Rules: Grimdark Future. There's not a lot of lore for them yet cause they are just getting started on, but the rats are already one of my favorites. They have a whole secrets of N.I.M.H. thing going on where they were experiments that escaped and consequently their whole schtick as a faction is valuing freedom over all else to the point that they will join onto other worlds' conflicts if one of the sides is fighting for their own freedom. It's pretty great.
It interesting to hear you discuss Ferrus before fulgrim. I did it the other way and after hearing the tragedy that befell ferrus it made me appreciate the lore and stories he’s apart of more. I like that despite he’s immense strength and talents, because his hands aren’t his own he feels he’s still weak. So when I hear him talk about wanting to fix himself, so he can fix his sons is so interesting. Also can’t wait for you to talk about the lion and the Kahn and dorn. All guys that seem simple and basic that I personally feel are so much deeper.
I don't agree with Ferrus being a person of hate, not fully at least. I myself am quick on the draw with my temper as well and I don't feel like i'm a hateful person, even if people may think i am yknow? I think he's more a person of struggle. Strife may be a better word. Cause he even states how he wants to change, wants to be better but something keeps holding him back. I may not agree with his politics but i do relate to him quite a bit in certain regards, specially the whole "Why have it all fancy? Just make it functional", and I feel like if he was hateful he wouldn't want to be better. Dig?
35:00 i myself regularly have to fight that urge to replace my limbs with prosthetics, and if we had general cybernetics i likely would have gone full mechanicus already.
We know little about Ferrus Manus due to the lack of books, we really need more books. The Man named Iron hands with his Iron hands and his legion called the Iron hands in his ship called the Fist of Iron, needs more books, preferably made from Iron.
As somebody who has read through more than half of the books in the Horus Heresy, losing Ferrus was honestly one of the coolest plot points that could’ve happened for what it does to his Legion.
You’re able to get so many interesting characters trying to deal with the trauma of losing their Primarch. It makes his entire Legion underdogs who are shattered, but desperately trying to fight back, and they are often some of the most central characters in books that aren’t even about their Legion. So many times in other books, you see a squad or even just a single Iron Hand show up, and they just absolutely destroy in the name of their fallen father.
Unlike the titular character, you two have good heads on your shoulders.
This is a really lovely series! I’m just now getting into Warhammer stuff and it’s really cool to have fellow queer folks who I can watch cool videos from about it!
In most cases It's (system name) [number], where the innermost planet is 1 and then increasing as you move outwards. using this naming convention Earth/Terra would be 'Sol III'.
a notable (and rather topical) case would the Isstvan system, where two pivotal betrayals in the Horus Heresy happened.
Isstvan III, where Horus, Fulgrim, and Angron sent the sections of their legions that they felt were to loyal to the Emperor to capture the planet, and then virus bombed the entire thing.
Isstvan V, where the Dropsite Massacre happened, Ferrus got a head shorter, and the Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, and the Night Lords, turned on the Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard.
Ferrus, like many beings from 30k, would absolutely hate whats has become of his people in 40k, he believed enhancement through machine, not replacement
This hit close as someone who tries to have a stoic outlook on life after years of being alone and failing to connect to anyone… and also being bi and non-binary was an unexpected shared trait with Ava haha it makes me happy to see someone with my own issues have a happy ending with it 😊
Really enjoyed this episode. I’m a bit sad we’re not fully covering his death but I understand it’ll be covered later.
I can’t remember exactly when Kari started talking about Mami, but I’ve got two things to say about it. First, I can only react with the those who know meme, and second, I can’t wait for Explaining Magical Girls To My Boyfriend!
Beyond that, since I may as well make this a big comment so I don't post multiple times, this video was fantastic! The videos you guys make get better every time, and I'm always excited for the next one. Ava you 100% succeeded in making Ferrus Manus cool, he's awesome! Also the psychological talk from Kari taught me a lot of things; like, I didn’t know about Body Integrity Dysphoria until today. I not only learned more about Warhammer 40k, but I also learned more about life in general. That talk you guys had about appropriation and accommodation was really enlightening. Overall this video was fantastic, and I loved every second of it! I can’t wait for the episode on Fulgrim. Also I adore Fulgrim's design, he's so cute & sexy at the same time. I love you guys! P.S That comment you guys read about Ferrus Manus being a man of hate was really good, props to the person who made that!
As the episodes go on, I am more and more excited for the Rogal Dorn episode! The way his view of the universe changes as the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy take place are some of my favorite developments out of any of the primarchs (and by extension, how it effects his sons) and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it!
Can’t wait for the blood bowl episode (assuming yall do one)
Can't wait for the next one, love your work man.
Angron is my favorite Primarch. He is my brother's favorite Primarch. As someone who struggles with intense mood disregulation, we love him. So it makes me very happy that Ava loves Khorne because I hope they do my angry boy justice.
Ferrus already?! Aren't you getting... ahead, of yourself?
Kari's on great comedy form in this one! Good job!
Kari is back again as The Pun-isher.
1:49 WILD MADOKA MAGICA REFERANCE! I DID NOT EXPECT THAT REFERENCE IN A 40K VIDEO
There is something about how you guys relate these stories to real life that makes these videos infinitely better than most warhammer lore video its also really nice hearing people talk about gender roles and such from a non political iust accepting and understanding i have put some thought into all of that myself and while im pretty confident that i am a asexual dude it is extremely cathartic to not have to worry thinking that im crazy and acknowleding there are more than just one way to exist idk what else to say than thank you for mixing this in with warhammer journey
Their faces being hands killed me of laughter 😂
something that 40k lore is missing, theres not one primarch that just tells big E to fuck off and refuses to serve. even angron who gets screwed by him still submits, i want one of the lost primarchs to be entirely uncooperative or outright hostile to big E from the start.
Tbh probably one or both the forgotten did that
I think gorillaman would, he respects the emperor to an extent but did not see him as his father, he had a father that was killed.
@@emotionjournal ghilliemoon wasnt single mindedly loyal like russ or lion'el but he was always a company man. not one take a stand. i want, if the 2 ever get explained, a primarch that's defiant. that tells emps to his face that he's wrong. obviously they'd have to cave in the end to be consistent with the lore and actually have a story rather than emps killing them immediately. but them being ideologically opposed to the great crusade and half ass-ing their assignment until, well, whatever they did to get redacted.
This episode heading in the direction I expected, with decapitation jokes left and right.
By far the best Ava and Cari design
I imagine a marine just put googly eyes and wigs on his hands and is just talking to himself