Apologies that there's a bit of a volume difference between us! This, Fulgrim, and Valkia the Bloody's episode was recorded before we got a microphone upgrade so going forward audio should be clean! ❤💙
I’m looking forward to your episode on Fulgrim. One thing I’ve always found fascinating about him is that he has the backstory you’d expect Peter Turbo to have, and Peter Turbo has his backstory. Between the two of them which one do you expect to have been raised a pampered princeling and which one do you expect, to literally clawed the way up from the sludge of a crippled industrial world?
To clarify planet naming schemes; it's the same as star trek's system, where each planet is named after the star and given a number depending on which order they are from their star. So Earth would be known as Sol 3, since we're the 3rd planet from the star Sol.
@@blender7 okay toaster boy, go jerk off to the ungodly amount of hidden DAoT war winning blueprints you have piled in your damn storage closet for no reason.
That's not ENTIRELY true. Imperial cartographers generally assign an alphanumeric designation to most planets, usually those that haven't been colonized, but other worlds are given actual names. Case in point? Well, Earth is called Terra, the moon is still called Luna, Mars is still called Mars, and Pluto is still called Pluto, and none of these to my knowledge are listed as 'Sol-X' or what have you. Likewise, the typical naming convention of referring to planets by designators like 'Primus', 'Secundus' or 'Tertias' does happen, but then you have cases like, say, Armageddon Secundus, which isn't another planet in the Armageddon System, but rather just the southern hemisphere of Armageddon. Meanwhile Baal Secundus refers to Baalfor, one of the twin moons of Baal, but the moon of Kiavahr is called 'Deliverance'. So there isn't really any consistency in the naming conventions, which tracks when you consider that nobody even knows what the bloody years is in the Imperium due to issues with the calendar system for over 10,000 years.
Ferrus Manus and the Iron Hands were primarily responsible for the field-testing and drafting of tactical doctrine concerning the use of numerous pieces of Astartes-Grade wargear, with their most notable contribution being Terminator armor. The Indomitus pattern suit that we all know and love today is a direct result of the Iron Hands’ tinkering. And their findings with their research informed a large portion of what would eventually become the Codex Astartes. If it involves terminators, dreadnoughts, or tanks, the Iron Hands wrote the book on it. As a result of their close work with the Mechanicum, they amassed the most technologically advanced armory out of all the Astartes legions, and they used it with pride and gusto in every battle they fought. For this reason, and many others, Horus greatly desired Ferrus to join him when he turned traitor. It’s also the reason that Horus was quaking in his frilly little gumboots when he found out Fulgrim tipped their hand, and Ferrus wasn’t going to be joining them for their rebellion. Horus orchestrated the Dropsite massacre to remove the Iron Hands from the field as quickly and cleanly as possible because he KNEW that the Iron Hands were going to be the biggest threat to his plans. Even if the traitors were able to annihilate the Iron Hands in the march to Terra, the traitors would be LIMPING into Terra’s orbit, if they even made it there at all. He had to get rid of them ASAP. And Istvaan didn’t even work all that well. It took the combined efforts of 8 traitor legions as well as numerous traitor Mechanicum and Exertis assets to bring down about 2/3rds of the legion, and even still, many of those Iron Hands survived the Dropsite massacre and went on to rally the Raven guard and salamanders into the Shattered Legions to be a MASSIVE pain in the ass for the traitors their whole way back to Terra. And besides, as someone who had a prosthetic leg from age 5, and always felt super self-conscious about it, I naturally gravitated towards the Iron Hands. They taught me that my leg isn’t holding me back, it’s a showing of my strength as a person, that I carry on despite being at a disadvantage.
Of all the Primarchs, Ferrus Manus always appeared to me as "elder brother" coded. Despite all the primarchs basically being the same age, he comes across as the oldest somehow, sometimes with a bit of a mentor status to him, but an imperfect one. He experienced tragedy early in a way few of his brothers did and mildly resented them for it even as he came to love them in a way he couldn't express. The Lion is the most emotionally closed off of them, another figure that is seen as somehow being an older brother among "equals", but I wish we'd gotten to see him and Ferrus interact more, because I feel like the two overly masculine primarchs might have found someone who understood the masks they both have to wear.
@@DetectiveLance He was. Ferrus was respected by most, because he has proven his capabilities time and again, because his harsh, blunt nature lends itself to honest council. And, because he lead one of the most reliable Legions (turns out, drowning the opposition in heavy artillery fire and rolling over the remains with heavy tanks tends to annihilate stuff), not to mention he was for a time charged with leading a third of the Great Crusade's forces alongside Big E and Horus while Russ was still busy getting the hang of using speaking rather than bark and growl at everyone. Funnily enough, he was also the tallest of the Primarchs, standing a head taller (heh) than Vulcan, who was/is admittedly bulkier/broader than Ferrus; but how much of a role that bit played is debated xD
The discussion of the WE and Angron and the cancer analogy made me realize that the WE may see the butchers nails as shaving their heads in solidarity, but to Angron it's a bunch of people he already doesn't like saying "WE GAVE OURSELVES CANCER TO BE LIKE YOU! DO YOU LOVE US NOW?"
The sadness of the Iron Hands in their obsession with bionics is best exemplified by their motto : "The Flesh is Weak". But it turns out it was said by Vulcan and the Chapter has forgotten about the second part of the quote. "The Flesh is Weak, but Deeds Endure." Really sad how it completely recontexualualises the motto yet the Iron Hands don't know or worse, don't care.
The thing is, they really don't care for Ferrus in the same manner that other chapters revere their Primarch. Ferrus's death, to them, was the confirmation of everything they thought up to that point. Ferrus failed at Istvaan V, because his temper, his flesh got the better of him, causing him to make a rash decision, which lead to his death by the hands of this closest, most trusted brother, Fulgrim. Ferrus's death confirmed, that the flesh is weak, that having emotions makes one weak, that being human is a weakness. And so they became resentful of the flesh, of humanity, of being human(-ish, they're still Astartes). They hate with a passion, but to hate and to be passionate is a weakness to be excised. They try to conceil their hate and wrath behind the "logic" of the machine, behind the easily understandable, non-negotiable binary system of computation as a way to cope with the temper they probably inherit from Ferrus. All in an effort to distance themselves from being human. TL;DR: Yes, they don't care, because they really don't like Ferrus all that much.
Regarding the interpretation of Ferrus Manus as self-hating: I saw someone posting below here that the Iron Hands are dismissive of their Primarch, since he "failed" when he was killed and thus proved not strong enough. It's possible that this is view they have, I haven't read a huge amount of their lore outside general codices, but I've seen a different take: the Iron Hands hate themselves for failing their primarch. He died because they could not protect him, could not be at his side, could not keep up with him and be his bodyguard. When he died they were overcome with such tremendous shame, self-disgust and inferiority complex that they dove EVEN FURTHER into self-augmentation, in a kind of fatalistic attempt to burn out the humiliation and defeat that came with losing their father. That sense of almost desperate self-loathing traumatizes their chapter even into the 41st millennium, although more on a cultural level than a personal.
I appreciate the name drop! Glad you liked my comment. As you said, it was mostly speculation and latching on to a character I relate to. I didn’t really go into it, but I find Ferrus’s relationship with his sons tragic. He has been taught and forced by his environment into this personification of toxic masculinity, and in an almost patriarchal way, forces his sons to learn the same lessons. When they begin the self mutilation, he realizes the harm of what he’s done, and the pain he has instilled. He really does care about them, and I think it’s a tragedy he never got to fulfill his promise of helping his sons overcome the hurt he had instilled in them. Not only was he hurt by stoicism, he hurt generations of his descendants with it as well. The Iron Hands and the Mechanicus are the same in obsession with removing the flesh, but they could not be more different in cause. The Mechanicus love being metal, the Iron Hands love nothing. They only hate being flesh. And it is all Ferrus’s fault.
You know I keep thinking about the first Iron Hand to think hey guys let’s cut off our hand and replace it with a cyborg hand prosthetic hand. Dad’s gonna love it! Ferus comes home and 5 of his sons have permanently mutilated themselves he’s horrified internally but he just asks why? And when they say because we love you and want to be just like you… I honestly don’t think I could tell them yeah that’s stupid you idiots have disappointed me no one else do what these clowns did. So everyone else thinks oh okay sure dad liked that let’s all do it! Face palming Ferus meme
I've heard that it's poor edict to show up to a Warhammer 40K game with unpainted Minis but I can just imagine someone coming in to play with an army of unpainted Iron Hands and when someone calls them out on it they simply say, "Ferrus would not care if they were painted, only if they could be used".
The psychological talk was really exciting to listen to! I had already heard the general details of the 40k story on so many great lore channels I at first didn't consider your content worth checking out. One day I was really bored and decided I could go for some 40k with a slightly different narration. Quickly I discovered that you two bring a load of personality and unique insight to these otherwise already familiar stories! Wholesome and introspective with fascinating personal anecdotes :) Subscribed and rang the bell👌
I'm going back to school to finish my psych degree at 40 and I really just love how you both discuss the mentality of these characters and the psychology behind them and the themes about masculinity etc. It's not something I really see in other lore channels and it's so refreshing. Also really cool to hear someone else who is nonbinary talking about getting away from gendered expectations.
Ferrus was just a big headstrong. Often got a bit ahead of himself. Didn't know how to get ahead in life. Not a good head on his shoulders, you might say.
We could all see where he was heading. He just couldn't keep a cool head when he needed it the most. not a good figurehead for his legion. Imma head out.
1:10:35 basically Ferrus was horrified by how machine the future Iron Hand was. Like, said marine was more robot than organic at that point. He basically reacted by demanding everyone leave, and saying that if this was the future he wanted no part of it. And that he'd rather die before seeing his legion turn out this way, and thus wouldn't let it happen. Which adds to the tragedy of the fact that, because he died when he did, his legion turned out the way they did.
I'm really happy with the dive into Ferrus we got here, I think the fact he does lack alot of lore leave gaps that are interesting to speculate about. For example, in what I believe to be his Primarch book there are people who express doubt about how Ferrus got his metal hands, saying that the metal forms too cleanly to his arm, that a thrashing metal beast couldn't have made the metal form like that. I don't think that Ferrus is lying but its clear that the rumor gets to him somewhat, highlights how he fears weakness and being seen as weak (an important idea to keep in mind for "the spat"). Outside that I never heard the excerpt about the medic and I find it really endearing, can't wait to take that story and contrast it with how Peter Turbo handles himself. I also will admit I soyjacked when I heard Ducaines name but I'm that much of a nerd for the 10th. Guilliman holding Ferrus in such high regard (like I know its to avoid too many spoils but wow does Ferrus get glazed) is such an interesting thing that I wish there was a short story explaining it. Perhaps we could get one for Horus as well who I will mention is also a Ferrus glazer. Ultimately, Ferrus really is a tragedy in 40k and it only gets more and more tragic when you see how the Iron Hands handle everything that went down. He only realized the harm his ideas were doing to his legion before it was too late and to see how even aspects of him that can be seen as positive get warped in the wrong ways. Great video, can't wait for Fulgrim and whatever's next.
I relate to Ferus in a bit of a weird way. Growing up I was bullied, I was scrawny and weak. I never tried to become stronger because I didn’t want to turn into the bullies. They had more strength and I associated strength with abuse. The strong take and the weak suffer. Then around 16 I had a car wreck and while I wasn’t hurt the car got stuck on its side. if the car had flipped over the side of the road I would have dropped into the abyss and died. I tried my hardest to open that door on the top and I couldn’t do it. Eventually they brought in a machine and saved me. No one else was hurt and I didn’t hit anyone. But I realized that being weak is being helpless. I never wanted to be helpless like that again. I started working out and I realized that it was mental weakness that caused those who were stronger than me to bully me. They were weak minded and needed to hurt others to feel good about themselves. When I started 40k and learned about Ferus something about his ideology spoke to me. Especially how he said that his mind was the true source of his weakness and he must master it. Is Ferus Manus a good role model? Not in every way. But if you take the good aspects they can become a great source of strength both mental and physical. To have strength and not need it is always better than to need it and not have it. Here’s a paraphrased version to show what I mean A man who can not save himself is weak. And a man unwilling to even try to save himself does not deserve to be saved. For while the flesh is weak we can master it and overcome it. For what is the point of having such strength if not to help others to become strong too? For a man who can not save himself can not save anyone else either. So we go on unstoppable until we shatter all in our way and then we rest to do it again tomorrow. Just my opinions. Great video
I think it’s important that Ferrus’s first memory upon waking up, is being attacked. The Wyrm he could not defeat, and would now terrorize Medusa. He internalized a need to be stronger from this, if not for himself, then to help others.
@@jetlag3717 Huh interesting. So he had a similarly traumatic experience of helplessness and made a vow to himself to become stronger. I didn't see that parallel thanks!
You know I keep thinking about the first Iron Hand to think hey guys let’s cut off our hand and replace it with a cyborg hand prosthetic hand. Dad’s gonna love it! Ferus comes home and 5 of his sons have permanently mutilated themselves he’s horrified internally but he just asks why? And when they say because we love you and want to be just like you… I honestly don’t think I could tell them yeah that’s stupid you idiots have disappointed me no one else do what these clowns did. So everyone else thinks oh okay sure dad liked that let’s all do it! Face palming Ferus meme
Person born with one hand Kari is right people like us eventually grow proud of the things we learn to do despite the differences for instance I'm an avid gamer and my teammates say that cant tell the difference between me and other players in terms of skill. I also do origami as a hobby and I'm proud of that as I always give away what I make to people. Though what does irritate me at least is people always assuming I can't do something or I'm getting preferential treatment do to it.
Fun fact: The world of Medusa is encompassed by a massive ring called the Telstarax. Its origins lie in the DAoT and it was designed to exploit and process any resources the planet it orbited held. Be it Void ships or a simple clock the Telstarax could produce it within its massive foundries and manufacturing bays.
Which is also implied to be the reason Ferrus was found this early in the Great Crusade, despite having landed really near to the immense "DO NOT COME HERE" sign in the galaxy that is the Eye of Terror, as the AdMech naturally would have had a large interest in returning such a world back into their fold. Also, I find it humorous that, despite all of Ferrus's obvious failings, especially regarding his emotional stability, he was still being perceived to be a really good commander, which is why, despite being found after Leman, it was Ferrus who was at that point given command over 1/3 of the entire Great Crusade engagements, with the other thirds being headed by Horus and Big E respectively. (Granted, being a more level headed, reliable battle field commander than Russ is not exactly a high bar to beat.)
There is always an added level of personality and charm you both bring to the 40k talks that i very much enjoy. I knew of the events of Ferrus but never took unto consideration him as a person and just his fate. It does make me think about what my father tried to teach me about manhood and how i, for the most part, entirely rejected it. Very good format as well. Please keep up the amazing work.
54:10 For anyone who doesn’t know what Sorted is the sentence “one guy is really into meat … and the other guy … and they come together” is absolutely wild
I know it's only touched on briefly, but the most tragic thing about the Butcher's Nails weren't just adopted by the World Eaters. Angron actually told the techmarines and apothaceries of his legion to reverse engineer his own Nails and then begin implanting them into the legion.
I've always seen Ferrus as the perfect example of what men turn into during times of strife and conflict. He holds a very deeply seeded love for his sons but is disgusted that they feel like they have to follow him in his footsteps - a feeling I'm sure many superior army officials feel whenever they are given new recruits. Ferrus also despises the use of his hands but views it as a necessary thing to do which, pretty much sums up the action of war. I think Ferrus is very respectable in that way - someone who puts aside his feelings to get do what must be done.
His metal hands are a tangible manifestation of his trauma, and the hard, unfeeling man he had to become to survive his situation. Something that helped him endure, but which also cut him off from human sensation. Worse, he teaches his sons by example to be as cold and cruel as he is. A mistake he longs to correct, when the war is finally won. And he never gets the chance.
@@Bluecho4 Yes but these aspects of himself are necessary for the situation that he is in. War already makes hard men but galactic war against the likes of Necron, Ork and Eldar would certainly make a man inhuman - like an Astartes or Primarch. This, much like Ferrus' situation, is what must come to pass; it is what has enabled humanity within the setting to survive for as long as it has and though they are notably losing a fraction of what it means to be human, such aspects can be rebuilt. The necessity outweighs the means. I admire that about Ferrus, his indominable will and ability to set aside his own wants and beliefs for the benefit of mankind. Vulkan is a very similar character to Ferrus in that way.
Out of the primarchs so far, Ferus is my favorite. There’s something awe inspiring about his brutal simplicity and honesty that I can get behind. And of ALL his brothers he feels VERY meritocratic.
I just realized they're doing primarchs in order of being found. I was sitting here trying to figure out why we're doing a Ferrus Manus episode. He's a cool guy but there isn't like... a lot of lore about him. lol
Ferrus, like many beings from 30k, would absolutely hate whats has become of his people in 40k, he believed enhancement through machine, not replacement
Their doing the order of primarchs found during the great crusade after ferris manus is fulgrim(5th) vulkan (6th) Rogal dorn (7th) Roubute Guilliman (8th) Magnus the red (9th) sanguinius (10th) lion el Johnson (11th) perturabo (12th) mortarion (13th) lorgar (14th) jaghatai Kahn (15th) Konrad curze (16th) Angron (17th) Corvus corax (18th) lost primarch (19th) Alpharus Omegon (20th) the numbers beside the primarch is the order they are found.
Angron is my favorite Primarch. He is my brother's favorite Primarch. As someone who struggles with intense mood disregulation, we love him. So it makes me very happy that Ava loves Khorne because I hope they do my angry boy justice.
42:05 has an error. This is factually wrong. Ferrus and Horus never fought. Horus was the mediator between Dorn and Ferrus. After the battle was over, Ferrus challenged Dorn in an honor duel where each chose a champion to fight for their legion. The primarchs did not fight. It was astartes who represented the legions that fought. Ferrus has a temper, but he does not escalate things to the point it makes primarchs duel for empty reasons.
Can't believe the comments spoiled the heresy for Kari. Really hope nobody told her about the part where where Guilliman returns from the planet deathworldian XVIILCX with the 40,001st warhammer
All the primarchs that have returned have been depressed at the current state of the world and their actions and methods. Ferrus coming back nearly entirely cybernetic and metal and realizing he has little to no flesh anymore and all his dreams of removing his metal and teaching his sons the strength of flesh are gone forever, that he has to embrace everything he hated about what his sons did and move on from it... that seems a perfect storyline for a returned Ferrus to deal with.
Ferrus is dead and he and the other dead Primarchs must in that state remain - unless you want to cheap the importance of their demise as it happens in any generic DC/Marvel story.
@@Aberinkula9 Ferrus being dead has been milked of all the narrative it has. Characters should be dead up until a more better stories can be told when they are alive. And it’s not like Primarch deaths even matter. Ferrus was a ghost. Alpharius was in Warp Hell. They are all just waiting in limbo in soul form. The Emperor already said he could have bought them back in time. Primarchs staying dead is more just a timeout until plot needs them back. I mean Horus is probably coming back eventually.
@@Fordo007 If that happens than all grimdarkness of the setting and everything else that makes it unique will be over. It will become just another childish comic story in which everything can be fixed by "the powers of friendship, family and love", justifying then every atrocity the "good guys" did.
@@Aberinkula9 I disagree. Death is cheap, it's easy. Killing someone and acting like that is the height of storytelling and grimdark is cheap. A story isn't childish because a death is undone. A story is childish for killing someone and leaving them dead when the rules of the universe make it highly questionable. And in 40K Death is treated so often as a blessing then sharing the fate of continuing to live in it. Ferrus deserves a chance to be a character of his own instead of a plot device for Fulgrim. Ever since the demon possessing Fulgrim got undone and Fulgrim is just evil... leaving Ferrus dead has no point. His sons drama with him has been milked as far as it will go and Fulgrim has no ties to Ferrus anymore so there's no reason to keep him dead for that. Ferrus returning and dealing with any number of philosophical, psychological, existential trauma and drama is far more narativley compelling then him remaining dead just chilling in the Warp or giving tours of the Vengeful Spirit. It's honestly more grimdark to bring Ferrus back to deal with all that than to leave him dead where he is.
The iron hands have to be one of my favorite legions. And the only reason I don’t play them on the table top, is that there is next to no chance of Ferrus coming back, and I want fancy centerpiece man for my army. On a side note that has lead to me not being able to chose a marine chapter, currently I’m either favoring the imperial fists or ultra marines, or maybe raven guard becuse Corvus is a cool dude their color is sick, but I want my big tanks and guns so it doesn’t fir Raven guard very much :(.
I can’t remember exactly when Kari started talking about Mami, but I’ve got two things to say about it. First, I can only react with the those who know meme, and second, I can’t wait for Explaining Magical Girls To My Boyfriend! Beyond that, since I may as well make this a big comment so I don't post multiple times, this video was fantastic! The videos you guys make get better every time, and I'm always excited for the next one. Ava you 100% succeeded in making Ferrus Manus cool, he's awesome! Also the psychological talk from Kari taught me a lot of things; like, I didn’t know about Body Integrity Dysphoria until today. I not only learned more about Warhammer 40k, but I also learned more about life in general. That talk you guys had about appropriation and accommodation was really enlightening. Overall this video was fantastic, and I loved every second of it! I can’t wait for the episode on Fulgrim. Also I adore Fulgrim's design, he's so cute & sexy at the same time. I love you guys! P.S That comment you guys read about Ferrus Manus being a man of hate was really good, props to the person who made that!
I really liked the discussion of the mindset of appropriation and the accommodation vs advantage topic. Both of these are very compelling things that we can all talk about. Thank you Kari for reminding me why I watch these videos on lore I already know, a fresh perspective is always valuable.
35:00 minute mark, reminds me of a crazy story I read once of a woman who was desperate to become wheelchair bound and paraplegic, she would often go snowboarding, with the intent on crippling herself.
Copy of a greentext about Metal Fist that i enjoy greatly: >go to party for Halloween >hours pass, get really drunk >sleep & leave friends apartment in morning >day passes >get text from friend >”Dude, who is Ferrus Manus?” >confused, I ask him how he knows that name (he’s not into Warhammer) >tells me I got really drunk at the party and started crying about Ferrus Manus >said I kept saying that Ferrus Manus was “forever young” and got cut down before his time >other people at the party thought I had a friend named Ferrus that had died I can tell this green text is fake because no one cares for the Iron Hands that much to drunk rant about Ferrus
i think one of the best examples of space marines wanting to be like their primarchs was when tzeentch gave a blood angel wings so he can look like sanguinius then his iological brother who also is a space marine killed him
Disabled person here. I'm not an amputee, but my best friend is a double amputee, one arm one leg both left side. I have a degeneritive nerve condition. We use the term factory issued body to refer to nondisabled bodies. We on the other hand have custom bespoked bodies. They also like that term because they take great pride in their prostetics having quite a few very ornate and decoritive ones though those ones tend not to be very practical. They think of them like a pair of fancy high heels. No they aren't comfortable to wear all day, but sometime you just want to wear a gorgous porcline leg made out of an antique lamp
Your guys convos on 40k always brighten up my day. Half the time I know all about what your topic is, but it's nice to hear people talk about things they enjoy like this.
As to Vulkan, he makes weapons of mass destruction because the Emperor kinda programmed him to. Simply put you don't give weapons like that to a son that will proverbially nuke everything. The Emperor gave it to the one son who never ever wanted to use them besides as a failsafe last resort... and would feel terrible about using them. Also Vulkan kinda can't die, or stay injured, so if you ever saw Starship Troopers where a soldier jokes that knives are useless in a nuke fight as all you have to do is push a button, so his drill instructor stabbed his hand then told the rest of the soldier "the enemy can not push a button, if you disable his hand". Vulkan can't have his hand disabled, or be killed. He will always be there, as a failsafe ready to push that button but having the compassion to never want to push it.
As someone who knew nothing about Ferrus before this, I'd say you did him justice, because i find him very interesting and now want to learn more about him
This is by far your funniest episode! The puppet presenters and "he's got a good head on his shoulders" line made me cough on my smoke and get into a cough/giggle fit 😂
Absolutely adored the psych talk, as someone who struggled with my sexuality almost into my 30s, and now in my 30s is struggling with gender identity, the conversation brought up some points I hadn't considered and I would've loved for the conversation to continue.
I really want Ferrus to return or be reference with the Legion of the Damned with a 10+foot Legion of the Damned marine with lava hands, a massive hammer, a burning sword, and a burning pyre for a head appears, saving Guilliman, Lion, the Ynarri, or Clonegrim. Then he and the Daemon Primarch Fulgrim stare at each other blankly. A sense of familiarity and disbelief shared among the two. “Go” I tells them, “Lest you wish to fight me for the right to kill him.”
So, you want WK40k to become a shonen or Marvel bullshit, right? I will not even complain at this point. WH40k's fandom is filled to the brim or with political extremists (of BOTH sides) or with utterly childish people that ruin the hobby and lore. It is useless at this point...
Ferrus reminds me more of a machinist than an engineer. Grumpy, did things his own way, utilitarian, constantly roasting you, but a cool dude when you get to know him.
The discusion of Body Integrety Disphoria was very interesting, especialy as I suffer from it, and dont often hear about it. And just to clarify, yes I am able to manage it, but to discribe it, its like my brain is saying "you have too many legs, get rid of one" incessantly. And given the fact that Im also trans, i have run into the problem of people conflating the two when they are seperate things, and i can tell that they are seperate things in my head. I especialy didnt expect to encounter this in a discussion of 40k.
The guy with the demon inside him and the whole "I need this to live, but it sucks" vibe is quite similar to the Elric of Melnibone storyline (which I think got a shoutout in early fantasy as an inspiration)
Ferrus and the Iron Hands were my first favorite chapter and I thought that the disconnect between Ferrus and his sons was such a cool idea that I wish was explored more. After learning about the Grey Knights though they became my definitive favorites, as well as Lion and the Dark Angels, due to the lack of lore surrounding the Iron Hands and Ferrus. I share a similar interest now between the Fallen and Lion.
I have heard from other creators that doing premiers can tank the long term growth (beyond 6+ days) of the video. Idk if this is the case for you but just wanted to throw that out there incase you haven’t heard that before. Love the videos soooo much ❤❤❤
Thanks you for making this series because it actually is helping me tell my girlfriend about Warhammer because she wants to get to know my hobby and I can’t tell here they way I should with the complicity of Warhammer
I love the angle of the Iron hands appropriating and misinterpreting Ferrus' iron hands as a source of honour and strength, I've never heard that one before. Ferrus demanded so much of them and pushed them so hard to eradicate their weakness and be the best legion that even if something only made them feel stronger, they thought it was worth it. I think another less-explored angle of the culture of the Iron Hands, at least in 40k, is how similar their obsession with cybernetics is to unhealthy beauty standards. Every missed 1% of your average accuracy, every wasted second, every .0000001 of every calculation, everything that isn't up to the standard of a machine is mocked, sidelined and hated as a flaw that needs to be removed. Ferrus set the standard of strength as something attainable through dedication and wisdom, even if he was a bitch about it. The Iron Hands set it as something utterly inhuman and unattainable without painful and invasive cybernetic surgeries that don't stop until you're nothing but half a brain in a robot body and you cant run from the self-loathing anymore.
The part where y'all talked about masculinity and rejecting it and how you discovered your non-binary nature was echoed with my own personal experience so much that I had to doublecheck if i didn't record this. It always feels great to find a kindred spirit, love y'all
It interesting to hear you discuss Ferrus before fulgrim. I did it the other way and after hearing the tragedy that befell ferrus it made me appreciate the lore and stories he’s apart of more. I like that despite he’s immense strength and talents, because his hands aren’t his own he feels he’s still weak. So when I hear him talk about wanting to fix himself, so he can fix his sons is so interesting. Also can’t wait for you to talk about the lion and the Kahn and dorn. All guys that seem simple and basic that I personally feel are so much deeper.
Something I find interesting in the discussion of masculinity is that for Ferrus, a lot of this likely stemed from his environment. He suffered a loss that he felt he needed to overcome, but his planet had very little give in his pursuit. He dislikes frivolity because he sees a precious and necessary resource being wasted when it could be put to better use. Ferrus enjoys blacksmithing because it was one of the few forms of self-expression he put out to the world, but even that needed to be practical or else why waste such a precious resources on something you cant use. This contrasts really well with Fulgrim as he also came from a planet of scarse resources but had a different upbringing and challenge to overcome.
there was a terra 2 in the fist book of the horus heresy but after being brought back under Imperial rule by the Luna wolfs it was renamed to Sixty-Three-Nineteen so yes there was a second terra
I would agree with yall’s analysis of Ferrus’ hegemonic masculinity, because a lot of that is probably Big E. Even before he meets them, they’re his sons through and through. Still, a lot of what I see in Ferrus is more akin to autism. I realize that’s the joke everyone makes about him, but based on my own experience being autistic as well, he speaks to me in a way none of the other primarchs do. There’s an outward shell of rigidity and machine-like behavior with this incredible tender core of humanity. An interesting fact about autistic folks is that they’re incredibly susceptible to societal and generational problems like hegemonic masculinity, religious zealotry, and other things of the like that deal with heavy expectations placed on you from the outside, and I also can say that I’ve unfortunately had that experience as well. This idea of this ‘mask’ you two speak of has a term for is called ‘masking’ when referring to the behavior in autistic people, where we project something like a personality people would expect outward, if only to fit in and meet those expectations. I could go on, but point being, the more I read about Ferrus, the more bullet points he hit. If only he had more than six sentences of lore…
Fun fact; he was the strongest primarch. A salamander that was at the istvaan V massacre talks about how Vulkan was throwing Leman Russ tanks, and now how he was the strongest, now that Ferrus was dead. Citation: Shattered legion short stories
Since I've gotten into the hobby, specifically collecting and painting Iron Hands, I always viewed Ferrus Manus as a really tragic character; a man who persues perfection but who either fails due to his nature or is misunderstood so severely that his meaning is completely lost. And he realises this and wants to fix it, as is his nature. And then he is killed. All of his ambitions to fix his mistakes and achieve perfection are snuffed out.
As somebody who has read through more than half of the books in the Horus Heresy, losing Ferrus was honestly one of the coolest plot points that could’ve happened for what it does to his Legion. You’re able to get so many interesting characters trying to deal with the trauma of losing their Primarch. It makes his entire Legion underdogs who are shattered, but desperately trying to fight back, and they are often some of the most central characters in books that aren’t even about their Legion. So many times in other books, you see a squad or even just a single Iron Hand show up, and they just absolutely destroy in the name of their fallen father.
Apologies that there's a bit of a volume difference between us! This, Fulgrim, and Valkia the Bloody's episode was recorded before we got a microphone upgrade so going forward audio should be clean! ❤💙
Im preety sure it has something to do with the hands.
awesome episode cant wait for the next one .
because fulgrim is still out there i expect a chunky episode and that would be awesome :0
So there _is_ a Fulgrim episode oncoming. Excellent. Might I also ask when/if the Explaining Digimon episode will be?
I’m looking forward to your episode on Fulgrim. One thing I’ve always found fascinating about him is that he has the backstory you’d expect Peter Turbo to have, and Peter Turbo has his backstory. Between the two of them which one do you expect to have been raised a pampered princeling and which one do you expect, to literally clawed the way up from the sludge of a crippled industrial world?
I hope you mention the meme around Fulgrim and clones of Ferrus in the next video. That shit was funny as hell when I found out about it.
To clarify planet naming schemes; it's the same as star trek's system, where each planet is named after the star and given a number depending on which order they are from their star. So Earth would be known as Sol 3, since we're the 3rd planet from the star Sol.
You referred to HOLY TERRA as WHAT??!?
You dare desecrate the name of Holy Terra to the likes of some outer agri-world? The Inquisition would like a word.
@@CEO-of-money I am a servant of the Mechanicus. The inquisition can bite my shiny metal ass
@@blender7 okay toaster boy, go jerk off to the ungodly amount of hidden DAoT war winning blueprints you have piled in your damn storage closet for no reason.
That's not ENTIRELY true. Imperial cartographers generally assign an alphanumeric designation to most planets, usually those that haven't been colonized, but other worlds are given actual names. Case in point? Well, Earth is called Terra, the moon is still called Luna, Mars is still called Mars, and Pluto is still called Pluto, and none of these to my knowledge are listed as 'Sol-X' or what have you. Likewise, the typical naming convention of referring to planets by designators like 'Primus', 'Secundus' or 'Tertias' does happen, but then you have cases like, say, Armageddon Secundus, which isn't another planet in the Armageddon System, but rather just the southern hemisphere of Armageddon. Meanwhile Baal Secundus refers to Baalfor, one of the twin moons of Baal, but the moon of Kiavahr is called 'Deliverance'. So there isn't really any consistency in the naming conventions, which tracks when you consider that nobody even knows what the bloody years is in the Imperium due to issues with the calendar system for over 10,000 years.
Ferrus Manus and the Iron Hands were primarily responsible for the field-testing and drafting of tactical doctrine concerning the use of numerous pieces of Astartes-Grade wargear, with their most notable contribution being Terminator armor. The Indomitus pattern suit that we all know and love today is a direct result of the Iron Hands’ tinkering. And their findings with their research informed a large portion of what would eventually become the Codex Astartes. If it involves terminators, dreadnoughts, or tanks, the Iron Hands wrote the book on it. As a result of their close work with the Mechanicum, they amassed the most technologically advanced armory out of all the Astartes legions, and they used it with pride and gusto in every battle they fought.
For this reason, and many others, Horus greatly desired Ferrus to join him when he turned traitor. It’s also the reason that Horus was quaking in his frilly little gumboots when he found out Fulgrim tipped their hand, and Ferrus wasn’t going to be joining them for their rebellion. Horus orchestrated the Dropsite massacre to remove the Iron Hands from the field as quickly and cleanly as possible because he KNEW that the Iron Hands were going to be the biggest threat to his plans. Even if the traitors were able to annihilate the Iron Hands in the march to Terra, the traitors would be LIMPING into Terra’s orbit, if they even made it there at all. He had to get rid of them ASAP. And Istvaan didn’t even work all that well. It took the combined efforts of 8 traitor legions as well as numerous traitor Mechanicum and Exertis assets to bring down about 2/3rds of the legion, and even still, many of those Iron Hands survived the Dropsite massacre and went on to rally the Raven guard and salamanders into the Shattered Legions to be a MASSIVE pain in the ass for the traitors their whole way back to Terra.
And besides, as someone who had a prosthetic leg from age 5, and always felt super self-conscious about it, I naturally gravitated towards the Iron Hands. They taught me that my leg isn’t holding me back, it’s a showing of my strength as a person, that I carry on despite being at a disadvantage.
Me: "Oh, boy, another video by Numbskulls! Imma watch it!"
Also me as I see the face-hands: "So this is gonna be one of THOSE days, is it?"
Of all the Primarchs, Ferrus Manus always appeared to me as "elder brother" coded. Despite all the primarchs basically being the same age, he comes across as the oldest somehow, sometimes with a bit of a mentor status to him, but an imperfect one. He experienced tragedy early in a way few of his brothers did and mildly resented them for it even as he came to love them in a way he couldn't express. The Lion is the most emotionally closed off of them, another figure that is seen as somehow being an older brother among "equals", but I wish we'd gotten to see him and Ferrus interact more, because I feel like the two overly masculine primarchs might have found someone who understood the masks they both have to wear.
It very much feels like the first few publicly found primarchs (Horus, Russ, and Ferrus) ended up as the quasi older siblings, but in different ways.
@@DetectiveLance He was. Ferrus was respected by most, because he has proven his capabilities time and again, because his harsh, blunt nature lends itself to honest council. And, because he lead one of the most reliable Legions (turns out, drowning the opposition in heavy artillery fire and rolling over the remains with heavy tanks tends to annihilate stuff), not to mention he was for a time charged with leading a third of the Great Crusade's forces alongside Big E and Horus while Russ was still busy getting the hang of using speaking rather than bark and growl at everyone.
Funnily enough, he was also the tallest of the Primarchs, standing a head taller (heh) than Vulcan, who was/is admittedly bulkier/broader than Ferrus; but how much of a role that bit played is debated xD
YES.
The discussion of the WE and Angron and the cancer analogy made me realize that the WE may see the butchers nails as shaving their heads in solidarity, but to Angron it's a bunch of people he already doesn't like saying "WE GAVE OURSELVES CANCER TO BE LIKE YOU! DO YOU LOVE US NOW?"
The sadness of the Iron Hands in their obsession with bionics is best exemplified by their motto : "The Flesh is Weak". But it turns out it was said by Vulcan and the Chapter has forgotten about the second part of the quote. "The Flesh is Weak, but Deeds Endure." Really sad how it completely recontexualualises the motto yet the Iron Hands don't know or worse, don't care.
The thing is, they really don't care for Ferrus in the same manner that other chapters revere their Primarch. Ferrus's death, to them, was the confirmation of everything they thought up to that point. Ferrus failed at Istvaan V, because his temper, his flesh got the better of him, causing him to make a rash decision, which lead to his death by the hands of this closest, most trusted brother, Fulgrim.
Ferrus's death confirmed, that the flesh is weak, that having emotions makes one weak, that being human is a weakness.
And so they became resentful of the flesh, of humanity, of being human(-ish, they're still Astartes). They hate with a passion, but to hate and to be passionate is a weakness to be excised. They try to conceil their hate and wrath behind the "logic" of the machine, behind the easily understandable, non-negotiable binary system of computation as a way to cope with the temper they probably inherit from Ferrus. All in an effort to distance themselves from being human.
TL;DR: Yes, they don't care, because they really don't like Ferrus all that much.
Regarding the interpretation of Ferrus Manus as self-hating: I saw someone posting below here that the Iron Hands are dismissive of their Primarch, since he "failed" when he was killed and thus proved not strong enough. It's possible that this is view they have, I haven't read a huge amount of their lore outside general codices, but I've seen a different take: the Iron Hands hate themselves for failing their primarch. He died because they could not protect him, could not be at his side, could not keep up with him and be his bodyguard. When he died they were overcome with such tremendous shame, self-disgust and inferiority complex that they dove EVEN FURTHER into self-augmentation, in a kind of fatalistic attempt to burn out the humiliation and defeat that came with losing their father. That sense of almost desperate self-loathing traumatizes their chapter even into the 41st millennium, although more on a cultural level than a personal.
I appreciate the name drop! Glad you liked my comment. As you said, it was mostly speculation and latching on to a character I relate to. I didn’t really go into it, but I find Ferrus’s relationship with his sons tragic. He has been taught and forced by his environment into this personification of toxic masculinity, and in an almost patriarchal way, forces his sons to learn the same lessons. When they begin the self mutilation, he realizes the harm of what he’s done, and the pain he has instilled. He really does care about them, and I think it’s a tragedy he never got to fulfill his promise of helping his sons overcome the hurt he had instilled in them. Not only was he hurt by stoicism, he hurt generations of his descendants with it as well. The Iron Hands and the Mechanicus are the same in obsession with removing the flesh, but they could not be more different in cause. The Mechanicus love being metal, the Iron Hands love nothing. They only hate being flesh. And it is all Ferrus’s fault.
The hands talking about psychological issues somehow tickles my twisted sense of humor. 😂😂😂
It's exactly why this channel should have 10 times more subscribers
You know I keep thinking about the first Iron Hand to think hey guys let’s cut off our hand and replace it with a cyborg hand prosthetic hand. Dad’s gonna love it!
Ferus comes home and 5 of his sons have permanently mutilated themselves he’s horrified internally but he just asks why? And when they say because we love you and want to be just like you…
I honestly don’t think I could tell them yeah that’s stupid you idiots have disappointed me no one else do what these clowns did.
So everyone else thinks oh okay sure dad liked that let’s all do it! Face palming Ferus meme
I've heard that it's poor edict to show up to a Warhammer 40K game with unpainted Minis but I can just imagine someone coming in to play with an army of unpainted Iron Hands and when someone calls them out on it they simply say, "Ferrus would not care if they were painted, only if they could be used".
And if they don't like it, dunk them in a bucket of black paint and voilà. A 90% finished Iron Hands army.
"I'll pretend to be a Salamander"
Kari LIVES!!!! *Stomp *Stomp
Kari LIVES!
“He is a skull ghost, a skost.”
-Vulkan and Fulgrim describing seeing the ghost of Ferrus
@2:29 “His neck?”
Didn’t miss a beat and stuck the landing on the quintessential Ferrus Manus meme.
She’s one of us now!
This should be fun. I know literally nothing about this dude.
He's Iron Hands, primarch of the Iron Hands, and his strike cruiser is named the Fist of Iron. And he has metal hands.
@@DetectiveLanceand hes dead...thats about it
Average 40K fan
@@diegojimenez5937 [Insert dumb head joke]
And you know everything
The psychological talk was really exciting to listen to!
I had already heard the general details of the 40k story on so many great lore channels I at first didn't consider your content worth checking out.
One day I was really bored and decided I could go for some 40k with a slightly different narration.
Quickly I discovered that you two bring a load of personality and unique insight to these otherwise already familiar stories!
Wholesome and introspective with fascinating personal anecdotes :) Subscribed and rang the bell👌
I'm going back to school to finish my psych degree at 40 and I really just love how you both discuss the mentality of these characters and the psychology behind them and the themes about masculinity etc. It's not something I really see in other lore channels and it's so refreshing. Also really cool to hear someone else who is nonbinary talking about getting away from gendered expectations.
I love it too man!
I can't get enough of Kari's decapitation puns. I was laughing this whole episode. Love you two! ❤️
I wish she didn't "cut off" the jokes, ngl
Ferrus was just a big headstrong. Often got a bit ahead of himself. Didn't know how to get ahead in life. Not a good head on his shoulders, you might say.
We could all see where he was heading. He just couldn't keep a cool head when he needed it the most. not a good figurehead for his legion. Imma head out.
shame he wasn't neckstrong
@@panda62845if he was Iron Neck he’d have been fine.
Sir/Ma'am, you are simply puntastic. You have my outmost respect.
@@Fordo007 A NeckBeard Ferrus would have been immune to beheading. 😂
1:10:35 basically Ferrus was horrified by how machine the future Iron Hand was. Like, said marine was more robot than organic at that point. He basically reacted by demanding everyone leave, and saying that if this was the future he wanted no part of it. And that he'd rather die before seeing his legion turn out this way, and thus wouldn't let it happen.
Which adds to the tragedy of the fact that, because he died when he did, his legion turned out the way they did.
I'm really happy with the dive into Ferrus we got here, I think the fact he does lack alot of lore leave gaps that are interesting to speculate about. For example, in what I believe to be his Primarch book there are people who express doubt about how Ferrus got his metal hands, saying that the metal forms too cleanly to his arm, that a thrashing metal beast couldn't have made the metal form like that. I don't think that Ferrus is lying but its clear that the rumor gets to him somewhat, highlights how he fears weakness and being seen as weak (an important idea to keep in mind for "the spat").
Outside that I never heard the excerpt about the medic and I find it really endearing, can't wait to take that story and contrast it with how Peter Turbo handles himself. I also will admit I soyjacked when I heard Ducaines name but I'm that much of a nerd for the 10th.
Guilliman holding Ferrus in such high regard (like I know its to avoid too many spoils but wow does Ferrus get glazed) is such an interesting thing that I wish there was a short story explaining it. Perhaps we could get one for Horus as well who I will mention is also a Ferrus glazer.
Ultimately, Ferrus really is a tragedy in 40k and it only gets more and more tragic when you see how the Iron Hands handle everything that went down. He only realized the harm his ideas were doing to his legion before it was too late and to see how even aspects of him that can be seen as positive get warped in the wrong ways. Great video, can't wait for Fulgrim and whatever's next.
I relate to Ferus in a bit of a weird way. Growing up I was bullied, I was scrawny and weak. I never tried to become stronger because I didn’t want to turn into the bullies. They had more strength and I associated strength with abuse. The strong take and the weak suffer.
Then around 16 I had a car wreck and while I wasn’t hurt the car got stuck on its side. if the car had flipped over the side of the road I would have dropped into the abyss and died. I tried my hardest to open that door on the top and I couldn’t do it. Eventually they brought in a machine and saved me. No one else was hurt and I didn’t hit anyone. But I realized that being weak is being helpless. I never wanted to be helpless like that again.
I started working out and I realized that it was mental weakness that caused those who were stronger than me to bully me. They were weak minded and needed to hurt others to feel good about themselves. When I started 40k and learned about Ferus something about his ideology spoke to me.
Especially how he said that his mind was the true source of his weakness and he must master it.
Is Ferus Manus a good role model? Not in every way. But if you take the good aspects they can become a great source of strength both mental and physical. To have strength and not need it is always better than to need it and not have it. Here’s a paraphrased version to show what I mean
A man who can not save himself is weak. And a man unwilling to even try to save himself does not deserve to be saved. For while the flesh is weak we can master it and overcome it. For what is the point of having such strength if not to help others to become strong too? For a man who can not save himself can not save anyone else either. So we go on unstoppable until we shatter all in our way and then we rest to do it again tomorrow.
Just my opinions. Great video
I'm glad you found a kinship with ferrus and I'm glad you survived the car crash.
@@theorcamafia Thanks : ) Me too.
I think it’s important that Ferrus’s first memory upon waking up, is being attacked. The Wyrm he could not defeat, and would now terrorize Medusa. He internalized a need to be stronger from this, if not for himself, then to help others.
@@jetlag3717 Huh interesting. So he had a similarly traumatic experience of helplessness and made a vow to himself to become stronger. I didn't see that parallel thanks!
You know I keep thinking about the first Iron Hand to think hey guys let’s cut off our hand and replace it with a cyborg hand prosthetic hand. Dad’s gonna love it!
Ferus comes home and 5 of his sons have permanently mutilated themselves he’s horrified internally but he just asks why? And when they say because we love you and want to be just like you…
I honestly don’t think I could tell them yeah that’s stupid you idiots have disappointed me no one else do what these clowns did.
So everyone else thinks oh okay sure dad liked that let’s all do it! Face palming Ferus meme
0:29 I’m honestly not sure if Kari was making a reference to 40K Salamanders, or to actual salamanders. Both feel equally likely
Since she reads the comments.... spoiler alert:
Starscream dies in the transformers 1984 movie
Dude come on
"This is bad comedy."
*Gasp* How dare you!?
Googlie eyes on the iron hands is something i need
Person born with one hand Kari is right people like us eventually grow proud of the things we learn to do despite the differences for instance I'm an avid gamer and my teammates say that cant tell the difference between me and other players in terms of skill.
I also do origami as a hobby and I'm proud of that as I always give away what I make to people.
Though what does irritate me at least is people always assuming I can't do something or I'm getting preferential treatment do to it.
47:15 VULKAN MENTIONED. REJOICE FELLOW SALAMANDERS
STOMP STOMP VULKAN LIVES STOMP STOMP
I'm getting big Guts and Griffith energy from these two. Ferrus and Fulgrim
If only Ferrus had a giant sword... 😔
Good to see someone else also sees it like that-
@@NUMBSKULLS if only 😢
Iron hand puppets are funnier than 90% of Ferrus jokes, this needed some brain power...
I'll see myself out
Thank you for your perspective on Warhammer and 40k. You have helped a dad explain to his teen kids why he likes these universes.
Damn! Kari was fast with that snarky "his neck" in response to where did he leave off?"
Fun fact: The world of Medusa is encompassed by a massive ring called the Telstarax. Its origins lie in the DAoT and it was designed to exploit and process any resources the planet it orbited held.
Be it Void ships or a simple clock the Telstarax could produce it within its massive foundries and manufacturing bays.
Which is also implied to be the reason Ferrus was found this early in the Great Crusade, despite having landed really near to the immense "DO NOT COME HERE" sign in the galaxy that is the Eye of Terror, as the AdMech naturally would have had a large interest in returning such a world back into their fold.
Also, I find it humorous that, despite all of Ferrus's obvious failings, especially regarding his emotional stability, he was still being perceived to be a really good commander, which is why, despite being found after Leman, it was Ferrus who was at that point given command over 1/3 of the entire Great Crusade engagements, with the other thirds being headed by Horus and Big E respectively. (Granted, being a more level headed, reliable battle field commander than Russ is not exactly a high bar to beat.)
There is always an added level of personality and charm you both bring to the 40k talks that i very much enjoy.
I knew of the events of Ferrus but never took unto consideration him as a person and just his fate.
It does make me think about what my father tried to teach me about manhood and how i, for the most part, entirely rejected it.
Very good format as well. Please keep up the amazing work.
54:10 For anyone who doesn’t know what Sorted is the sentence “one guy is really into meat … and the other guy … and they come together” is absolutely wild
I know it's only touched on briefly, but the most tragic thing about the Butcher's Nails weren't just adopted by the World Eaters. Angron actually told the techmarines and apothaceries of his legion to reverse engineer his own Nails and then begin implanting them into the legion.
AT LAST NEW FARRUS MANUS CONTENT
I've always seen Ferrus as the perfect example of what men turn into during times of strife and conflict. He holds a very deeply seeded love for his sons but is disgusted that they feel like they have to follow him in his footsteps - a feeling I'm sure many superior army officials feel whenever they are given new recruits. Ferrus also despises the use of his hands but views it as a necessary thing to do which, pretty much sums up the action of war. I think Ferrus is very respectable in that way - someone who puts aside his feelings to get do what must be done.
His metal hands are a tangible manifestation of his trauma, and the hard, unfeeling man he had to become to survive his situation. Something that helped him endure, but which also cut him off from human sensation. Worse, he teaches his sons by example to be as cold and cruel as he is. A mistake he longs to correct, when the war is finally won.
And he never gets the chance.
@@Bluecho4 Yes but these aspects of himself are necessary for the situation that he is in. War already makes hard men but galactic war against the likes of Necron, Ork and Eldar would certainly make a man inhuman - like an Astartes or Primarch. This, much like Ferrus' situation, is what must come to pass; it is what has enabled humanity within the setting to survive for as long as it has and though they are notably losing a fraction of what it means to be human, such aspects can be rebuilt.
The necessity outweighs the means.
I admire that about Ferrus, his indominable will and ability to set aside his own wants and beliefs for the benefit of mankind. Vulkan is a very similar character to Ferrus in that way.
Out of the primarchs so far, Ferus is my favorite. There’s something awe inspiring about his brutal simplicity and honesty that I can get behind. And of ALL his brothers he feels VERY meritocratic.
I just realized they're doing primarchs in order of being found. I was sitting here trying to figure out why we're doing a Ferrus Manus episode. He's a cool guy but there isn't like... a lot of lore about him. lol
Let's talk about Mr. Iron Hand himself
Ferrus, like many beings from 30k, would absolutely hate whats has become of his people in 40k, he believed enhancement through machine, not replacement
Their doing the order of primarchs found during the great crusade after ferris manus is fulgrim(5th) vulkan (6th) Rogal dorn (7th) Roubute Guilliman (8th) Magnus the red (9th) sanguinius (10th) lion el Johnson (11th) perturabo (12th) mortarion (13th) lorgar (14th) jaghatai Kahn (15th) Konrad curze (16th) Angron (17th) Corvus corax (18th) lost primarch (19th) Alpharus Omegon (20th) the numbers beside the primarch is the order they are found.
Wasn't Alpharius the 1st and never even left terra?! ... or maybe... he did?!... who knows...
@@GolemNo.09 yes but his twin was the 20th found plus Alpharus is a liar
@@Scholar_of_Lore yeah right. So he kinda is the first AND last, alpha and omega. Gj jamesworkshore
So that means, next they shouldn't talk about Fulgrim, but about [REDACTED] instead, right?
@@senor-achopijo3841 they will do fulgrim next
I don't know anything about this guy but after this video he gives me Hephaestus vibes
HOLY SHIT KIRIKOU REFERENCE, I WATCHED THOSE MOVIES SO LONG AGO AND I JUST GOT FLASHBANGED BY THE MEMORY
Angron is my favorite Primarch. He is my brother's favorite Primarch. As someone who struggles with intense mood disregulation, we love him. So it makes me very happy that Ava loves Khorne because I hope they do my angry boy justice.
"He would get along with Emet-Selch."
I almost choked with laughter at that... 😂😂😂😂😂😂
42:05 has an error. This is factually wrong. Ferrus and Horus never fought. Horus was the mediator between Dorn and Ferrus. After the battle was over, Ferrus challenged Dorn in an honor duel where each chose a champion to fight for their legion. The primarchs did not fight. It was astartes who represented the legions that fought. Ferrus has a temper, but he does not escalate things to the point it makes primarchs duel for empty reasons.
Oh, the Ferrus Manus episode. I wonder what funny costumes pur hosts will be wearing-
*sees two talking gauntlets*
WHAT THE FU-
"Explain madoka magica to my boyfriend " When!?!?!?
Kari's on great comedy form in this one! Good job!
Can't believe the comments spoiled the heresy for Kari. Really hope nobody told her about the part where where Guilliman returns from the planet deathworldian XVIILCX with the 40,001st warhammer
53:31
Brisingr!
ERAGON REFERENCE..... I love you for this Kari, thank you.
Also, can we have another series?
Explaining Inheritance cycle to my BF!
All the primarchs that have returned have been depressed at the current state of the world and their actions and methods. Ferrus coming back nearly entirely cybernetic and metal and realizing he has little to no flesh anymore and all his dreams of removing his metal and teaching his sons the strength of flesh are gone forever, that he has to embrace everything he hated about what his sons did and move on from it... that seems a perfect storyline for a returned Ferrus to deal with.
Ferrus is dead and he and the other dead Primarchs must in that state remain - unless you want to cheap the importance of their demise as it happens in any generic DC/Marvel story.
@@Aberinkula9 Ferrus being dead has been milked of all the narrative it has. Characters should be dead up until a more better stories can be told when they are alive. And it’s not like Primarch deaths even matter. Ferrus was a ghost. Alpharius was in Warp Hell. They are all just waiting in limbo in soul form. The Emperor already said he could have bought them back in time. Primarchs staying dead is more just a timeout until plot needs them back. I mean Horus is probably coming back eventually.
@@Fordo007 If that happens than all grimdarkness of the setting and everything else that makes it unique will be over. It will become just another childish comic story in which everything can be fixed by "the powers of friendship, family and love", justifying then every atrocity the "good guys" did.
@@Aberinkula9 I disagree. Death is cheap, it's easy. Killing someone and acting like that is the height of storytelling and grimdark is cheap. A story isn't childish because a death is undone. A story is childish for killing someone and leaving them dead when the rules of the universe make it highly questionable.
And in 40K Death is treated so often as a blessing then sharing the fate of continuing to live in it.
Ferrus deserves a chance to be a character of his own instead of a plot device for Fulgrim. Ever since the demon possessing Fulgrim got undone and Fulgrim is just evil... leaving Ferrus dead has no point. His sons drama with him has been milked as far as it will go and Fulgrim has no ties to Ferrus anymore so there's no reason to keep him dead for that.
Ferrus returning and dealing with any number of philosophical, psychological, existential trauma and drama is far more narativley compelling then him remaining dead just chilling in the Warp or giving tours of the Vengeful Spirit.
It's honestly more grimdark to bring Ferrus back to deal with all that than to leave him dead where he is.
It took me literally 2 seconds to find Ferrus and Fulgrim ship in google images lmao
The iron hands have to be one of my favorite legions. And the only reason I don’t play them on the table top, is that there is next to no chance of Ferrus coming back, and I want fancy centerpiece man for my army. On a side note that has lead to me not being able to chose a marine chapter, currently I’m either favoring the imperial fists or ultra marines, or maybe raven guard becuse Corvus is a cool dude their color is sick, but I want my big tanks and guns so it doesn’t fir Raven guard very much :(.
I can’t remember exactly when Kari started talking about Mami, but I’ve got two things to say about it. First, I can only react with the those who know meme, and second, I can’t wait for Explaining Magical Girls To My Boyfriend!
Beyond that, since I may as well make this a big comment so I don't post multiple times, this video was fantastic! The videos you guys make get better every time, and I'm always excited for the next one. Ava you 100% succeeded in making Ferrus Manus cool, he's awesome! Also the psychological talk from Kari taught me a lot of things; like, I didn’t know about Body Integrity Dysphoria until today. I not only learned more about Warhammer 40k, but I also learned more about life in general. That talk you guys had about appropriation and accommodation was really enlightening. Overall this video was fantastic, and I loved every second of it! I can’t wait for the episode on Fulgrim. Also I adore Fulgrim's design, he's so cute & sexy at the same time. I love you guys! P.S That comment you guys read about Ferrus Manus being a man of hate was really good, props to the person who made that!
I really liked the discussion of the mindset of appropriation and the accommodation vs advantage topic. Both of these are very compelling things that we can all talk about.
Thank you Kari for reminding me why I watch these videos on lore I already know, a fresh perspective is always valuable.
35:00 minute mark, reminds me of a crazy story I read once of a woman who was desperate to become wheelchair bound and paraplegic, she would often go snowboarding, with the intent on crippling herself.
Copy of a greentext about Metal Fist that i enjoy greatly:
>go to party for Halloween
>hours pass, get really drunk
>sleep & leave friends apartment in morning
>day passes
>get text from friend
>”Dude, who is Ferrus Manus?”
>confused, I ask him how he knows that name (he’s not into Warhammer)
>tells me I got really drunk at the party and started crying about Ferrus Manus
>said I kept saying that Ferrus Manus was “forever young” and got cut down before his time
>other people at the party thought I had a friend named Ferrus that had died
I can tell this green text is fake because no one cares for the Iron Hands that much to drunk rant about Ferrus
i think one of the best examples of space marines wanting to be like their primarchs was when tzeentch gave a blood angel wings so he can look like sanguinius then his iological brother who also is a space marine killed him
Disabled person here. I'm not an amputee, but my best friend is a double amputee, one arm one leg both left side. I have a degeneritive nerve condition. We use the term factory issued body to refer to nondisabled bodies. We on the other hand have custom bespoked bodies. They also like that term because they take great pride in their prostetics having quite a few very ornate and decoritive ones though those ones tend not to be very practical. They think of them like a pair of fancy high heels. No they aren't comfortable to wear all day, but sometime you just want to wear a gorgous porcline leg made out of an antique lamp
Man, you two really rocked these Oobi-sonas.
Me collecting all the GamerSupps discount codes like Thanos with the Infinity Stones.
Your guys convos on 40k always brighten up my day. Half the time I know all about what your topic is, but it's nice to hear people talk about things they enjoy like this.
As to Vulkan, he makes weapons of mass destruction because the Emperor kinda programmed him to. Simply put you don't give weapons like that to a son that will proverbially nuke everything. The Emperor gave it to the one son who never ever wanted to use them besides as a failsafe last resort... and would feel terrible about using them.
Also Vulkan kinda can't die, or stay injured, so if you ever saw Starship Troopers where a soldier jokes that knives are useless in a nuke fight as all you have to do is push a button, so his drill instructor stabbed his hand then told the rest of the soldier "the enemy can not push a button, if you disable his hand". Vulkan can't have his hand disabled, or be killed. He will always be there, as a failsafe ready to push that button but having the compassion to never want to push it.
What was that Neon Genesis Evangelion ass intro. I absolutely love it.
Edit:
The HANDS the HANDS!!😂🤣
Unlike the titular character, you two have good heads on your shoulders.
If earth is numbered by it's solar system like mentioned it would be Sol 3.
As someone who knew nothing about Ferrus before this, I'd say you did him justice, because i find him very interesting and now want to learn more about him
This is by far your funniest episode! The puppet presenters and "he's got a good head on his shoulders" line made me cough on my smoke and get into a cough/giggle fit 😂
Absolutely adored the psych talk, as someone who struggled with my sexuality almost into my 30s, and now in my 30s is struggling with gender identity, the conversation brought up some points I hadn't considered and I would've loved for the conversation to continue.
Honestly Kari's whole thing about appropriation and amputees is colossaly based. Adding it to my list of things I enjoy about Warhammer
I really want Ferrus to return or be reference with the Legion of the Damned with a 10+foot Legion of the Damned marine with lava hands, a massive hammer, a burning sword, and a burning pyre for a head appears, saving Guilliman, Lion, the Ynarri, or Clonegrim. Then he and the Daemon Primarch Fulgrim stare at each other blankly. A sense of familiarity and disbelief shared among the two. “Go” I tells them, “Lest you wish to fight me for the right to kill him.”
So, you want WK40k to become a shonen or Marvel bullshit, right?
I will not even complain at this point. WH40k's fandom is filled to the brim or with political extremists (of BOTH sides) or with utterly childish people that ruin the hobby and lore. It is useless at this point...
Okay, having your avatars being hand puppets is hilarious XD
Kinda looks like the viewer is looking at their own hands after having lost their mind.
Ferrus reminds me more of a machinist than an engineer. Grumpy, did things his own way, utilitarian, constantly roasting you, but a cool dude when you get to know him.
Kari is back again as The Pun-isher.
Can’t wait for the blood bowl episode (assuming yall do one)
The discusion of Body Integrety Disphoria was very interesting, especialy as I suffer from it, and dont often hear about it. And just to clarify, yes I am able to manage it, but to discribe it, its like my brain is saying "you have too many legs, get rid of one" incessantly. And given the fact that Im also trans, i have run into the problem of people conflating the two when they are seperate things, and i can tell that they are seperate things in my head. I especialy didnt expect to encounter this in a discussion of 40k.
The guy with the demon inside him and the whole "I need this to live, but it sucks" vibe is quite similar to the Elric of Melnibone storyline (which I think got a shoutout in early fantasy as an inspiration)
Ferrus already?! Aren't you getting... ahead, of yourself?
Ferrus and the Iron Hands were my first favorite chapter and I thought that the disconnect between Ferrus and his sons was such a cool idea that I wish was explored more. After learning about the Grey Knights though they became my definitive favorites, as well as Lion and the Dark Angels, due to the lack of lore surrounding the Iron Hands and Ferrus. I share a similar interest now between the Fallen and Lion.
7:25 I caught that Titan A.E. reference there. Nice.
I have heard from other creators that doing premiers can tank the long term growth (beyond 6+ days) of the video. Idk if this is the case for you but just wanted to throw that out there incase you haven’t heard that before. Love the videos soooo much ❤❤❤
You guys are the best 40K lore content creators in this community for so many reasons, love you!
Thanks you for making this series because it actually is helping me tell my girlfriend about Warhammer because she wants to get to know my hobby and I can’t tell here they way I should with the complicity of Warhammer
I love the angle of the Iron hands appropriating and misinterpreting Ferrus' iron hands as a source of honour and strength, I've never heard that one before.
Ferrus demanded so much of them and pushed them so hard to eradicate their weakness and be the best legion that even if something only made them feel stronger, they thought it was worth it.
I think another less-explored angle of the culture of the Iron Hands, at least in 40k, is how similar their obsession with cybernetics is to unhealthy beauty standards.
Every missed 1% of your average accuracy, every wasted second, every .0000001 of every calculation, everything that isn't up to the standard of a machine is mocked, sidelined and hated as a flaw that needs to be removed.
Ferrus set the standard of strength as something attainable through dedication and wisdom, even if he was a bitch about it.
The Iron Hands set it as something utterly inhuman and unattainable without painful and invasive cybernetic surgeries that don't stop until you're nothing but half a brain in a robot body and you cant run from the self-loathing anymore.
I’m glad Kari was a-head of the curb with the jokes!😂😂😂😅😅😅😅
2:06 getting A-head off the game.
The part where y'all talked about masculinity and rejecting it and how you discovered your non-binary nature was echoed with my own personal experience so much that I had to doublecheck if i didn't record this. It always feels great to find a kindred spirit, love y'all
"stop bullying him" "Im not, im bullying you, he's dead" i creased
It interesting to hear you discuss Ferrus before fulgrim. I did it the other way and after hearing the tragedy that befell ferrus it made me appreciate the lore and stories he’s apart of more. I like that despite he’s immense strength and talents, because his hands aren’t his own he feels he’s still weak. So when I hear him talk about wanting to fix himself, so he can fix his sons is so interesting. Also can’t wait for you to talk about the lion and the Kahn and dorn. All guys that seem simple and basic that I personally feel are so much deeper.
I like when you go into deeper subjects for a little while. Especially when they are this relevant for the character you are talking about
Something I find interesting in the discussion of masculinity is that for Ferrus, a lot of this likely stemed from his environment. He suffered a loss that he felt he needed to overcome, but his planet had very little give in his pursuit. He dislikes frivolity because he sees a precious and necessary resource being wasted when it could be put to better use. Ferrus enjoys blacksmithing because it was one of the few forms of self-expression he put out to the world, but even that needed to be practical or else why waste such a precious resources on something you cant use.
This contrasts really well with Fulgrim as he also came from a planet of scarse resources but had a different upbringing and challenge to overcome.
there was a terra 2 in the fist book of the horus heresy but after being brought back under Imperial rule by the Luna wolfs it was renamed to Sixty-Three-Nineteen so yes there was a second terra
I would agree with yall’s analysis of Ferrus’ hegemonic masculinity, because a lot of that is probably Big E. Even before he meets them, they’re his sons through and through. Still, a lot of what I see in Ferrus is more akin to autism. I realize that’s the joke everyone makes about him, but based on my own experience being autistic as well, he speaks to me in a way none of the other primarchs do. There’s an outward shell of rigidity and machine-like behavior with this incredible tender core of humanity. An interesting fact about autistic folks is that they’re incredibly susceptible to societal and generational problems like hegemonic masculinity, religious zealotry, and other things of the like that deal with heavy expectations placed on you from the outside, and I also can say that I’ve unfortunately had that experience as well. This idea of this ‘mask’ you two speak of has a term for is called ‘masking’ when referring to the behavior in autistic people, where we project something like a personality people would expect outward, if only to fit in and meet those expectations. I could go on, but point being, the more I read about Ferrus, the more bullet points he hit. If only he had more than six sentences of lore…
Fun fact; he was the strongest primarch.
A salamander that was at the istvaan V massacre talks about how Vulkan was throwing Leman Russ tanks, and now how he was the strongest, now that Ferrus was dead.
Citation: Shattered legion short stories
I missed you guys.
My two favorite lil goobers.☺
Since I've gotten into the hobby, specifically collecting and painting Iron Hands, I always viewed Ferrus Manus as a really tragic character; a man who persues perfection but who either fails due to his nature or is misunderstood so severely that his meaning is completely lost. And he realises this and wants to fix it, as is his nature. And then he is killed. All of his ambitions to fix his mistakes and achieve perfection are snuffed out.
As somebody who has read through more than half of the books in the Horus Heresy, losing Ferrus was honestly one of the coolest plot points that could’ve happened for what it does to his Legion.
You’re able to get so many interesting characters trying to deal with the trauma of losing their Primarch. It makes his entire Legion underdogs who are shattered, but desperately trying to fight back, and they are often some of the most central characters in books that aren’t even about their Legion. So many times in other books, you see a squad or even just a single Iron Hand show up, and they just absolutely destroy in the name of their fallen father.
9:30 obligatory Halo CE reference here