You should be efficient with both. Never put all your eggs in one basket. You want to be able to pick up any weapon and be effective. And always fight your way to a force multiplier when possible. Train with both and you won’t be left making excuses.
@@philbertshevitz3113never use blinkerfluid on reddots. Reddots need a constant dot while blinkers go on and of every few seconds. If you use blinkerfluid on your reddot, it might start turning on and of which is annoying
Team iron sight! Red dots are fun and have a function, but if you can’t shoot accurately with the iron sights you are putting yourself at a disadvantage
I was trained with irons by my Father and the Army,but as I get older I've noticed red dots are easier to focus in on my targets. Half my pistols are iron sights the others are red dot
My father was career army so going out into the woods to go shooting with his government buddies was a family rite of passage lol. I don’t think I picked up a Red Dot until my teens so irons all the way
Practice both! If your optic is low enough to utilize your iron sights, You’re in luck. Red dots are superior, but being effective with irons if your red dot malfunctions is always a good thing to master.
Which it will. Two deputies Trijicon red dots failed during pistol training. That was enough for me not to buy one. Plus, they cost as much as the pistol
Something isn’t superior if it can “malfunction”. Iron sites can’t “malfunction” unless you do something ridiculous to them like beat them with a hammer. A malfunction at the wrong time in a gunfight will kill you in real life. Red dots are not superior they’re just the new hotness and have their advantages and disadvantages.
So Cal Deputy here: I’m keeping it simple with my Dawson fiber optic irons. Two Deputies had their Trijicon red dots fail on them during my last pistol training day. It’s just another thing to go wrong, plus, they cost just as much as the pistol. On top of that is the added cost of a whole new holster.
Not if you can't see through the glass due to snow, rain, and mud. That's the issue I'm having, during last deer season as I was going through the woods my red dot and thus my pistol was unusable due to snow/water falling into it while going through brush ect. Atleast with the exposed holster I was wearing. Ended up using only a concealed holster now as it keeps the gun protected until needed. No more kydex holster on a gun belt, unless it's one with a hood. And I've since had to buy 2 new holsters to fix that, which was expensive AF...but worth it
@@mrdark9916 check out a safariland RDS holster for red dot protection. But also, wipe it off? Wouldn’t you have the same problem with irons anyways getting muddy?
@@mrdark9916 why are you deer hunting with a handgun????? Depending on what handgun it is, that is a terrible way to just injure an animal and not dispatch it on the first shot.
I’ve personally watched irons walk loose on cheap handguns all the way up to 2500 dollar custom kimber 1911s. I’ve also seen the Springfield prodigy have sights walk loose.
@@mikebrase5161 I’ve seen at least a dozen front sights get yeeted into space at matches, and various brand adjustable rear sights shit the bed too. I have at least three officers a year (small dept) come to me because their rear sight has drifted in the dovetail. About the same amount who have the Glock front sight screw loosen up I see annually (and I GREEN loctite that shit when I install them). This is not uncommon. And it’s not just Glock. SIG x-ray front sights are fragile as hell, and like to snap off even using SIG’s own tool. The Trijicon sights in M&Ps made specifically for SW like to have the tritium inserts fall out during firing.
Keep your irons on with your red dot. If your red dot fails, you still have irons. With this in mind, there is no good reason outside of $$$ to not use a red dot unless you carry a pocket pistol, a revolver or just think they are ugly.
I like irons because a dirty piece of glass just pisses me off. I already have to deal with glasses, I don't want to be looking through another linty, dusty, dirty filter. Besides, a really quick way to shoot irons is a sort of rear sight focus. If your target is larger than the rear sight notch, and your front sight is visible in the notch, as long as your handgun is zeroed, you will hit.
Red Dots are a nice add on, but be proficient with irons first. Also, if you live in Alaska or other extreme climates, red dots are also a disadvantage. Red dots also compromise a little on conceal-ability. You also need to practice your draw to first shot even MORE with a red dot. If you're not a student of the game and just like to exercise your 2A rights, then iron sights would be more ideal, especially if you don't have the time or resources to live fire train at least once a month. A lot of these people you see online train regularly with their optic sights and what they do does not translate to your Real Life results.
You should be proficient with irons first. That should be secondary. People pick up on shooting and fundamentals faster with dots than they do with irons, and it actually makes learning irons easier if you started with a dot.
Every shooter ive ever met who consistently trains with a dot over irons has had a faster learning curve with the fundamentals, and given it does a better job of teaching proper target focused shooting, what you learn on a dot tends to translate to irons easier than what you learn on irons transferring to dot use. You said it yourself, when you get a dot you have to train more, but if youre carrying you should simply be training more anyway🤷🏼 in reality most people get this idea because old school irons shooters still shoot front sight focused and never learn to shoot target focused. Using a dot speeds up that learning curve for using both of your eyes properly. Personally, i spent two years and 3k rounds on irons before I picked up my first dot, after less than 6 months of training with it I was bounds better at tracking my recoil and diagnosing trigger issues off of watching the dot in dryfire alone. Having a dot doesnt just give you opportunity to shoot more accurately they also serve as a great learning tool for improving your shooting mechanics and self diagnosing trouble areas. Also as a side note to this rant ive taught dozens of people to shoot and most of them have had an easier time shooting a dot for the first time than irons, I usually bring one of each to teach them. Hope some of this is useful to you
@@Elitist8 Most people don't j have time (or money) to train that much. Dry fire can only take you so far. Try to consider that the average person's income and for life schedules before assuming such things please. This type of mentality is exactly what deters people from wanting to exercise their 2A rights.
Astigmatism issues give many shooters ( like myself ) a poor sunburst view, or even multiple reticles. I d put my money on tritium NS and a Inforce rail light
same, astigmatism creates a MAJOR sunburst effect but the principle remains, know yourself and your tools. I personally like lasers with irons because of astigmatism.
I see crazy stuff when I look (uncorrected) at a dot. That being said , I've found that light power readers clean that right up. Also if I use a large circle reticle (not a dot) it's basically a non issue.
Perhaps some day they can get holographic tech small enough for pistols. I’ve heard EOTechs are better for astigmatisms, but I don’t have either of them, so I don’t know.
What I like to do is train for 10-20 reps reflex on a range, 15-30 reps iron sight, to practice getting sight alignment sight picture, then switch to practice 20-40 reps red dot, to practice using what I intend to primarily use. If I can efficiently and rapidly bring a two part apparatus up to target, I can do it with a single part apparatus, (referring to the actual components for aiming, not the physical make up of the device). This is done with the thought in mind that the alignment of the sight with respect to alignment of the eye to the sight changes for red dot compared to irons. Short version, I practice the hard thing for speed as part of a pace plan, then i practice the easy thing in accordance to actual use. Red dot>iron>reflex shooting, practicing in reverse order, with ascending repetitions, so that the primary method of aiming is the freshest in the mind, and most trained. Please note, the method I use for practicing aiming is for dry fire and for static shooting; for tactical or dynamic training environments, I train primarily on the dot, and induce failures of my optic (using an old battery and/or loosening the battery cap) to train myself to reflexively utilize my pace plan. No, I don't induce failures on my irons, I don't know how to do that without risking an unnecessary trip to a gunsmith. If you have any input, I'd be glad to read it over.
Have both. I have had irons break on 2 glocks and 1 P320. Had one red dot come loose and fly off and one where the screw came loose. They both can fail.
I only use iron sights on pistols. The new trend towards outfitting pistols like duty rifles is a bit much and muddies the waters of what a pistol exists for. That would be: concealed carry, fighting your way to your rifle and as a last ditch weapon if your rifle goes down. For concealed carry, the 3 shots at 3-7 are point shooting and can be trained for. For fighting to your rifle and using if your rifle has a hard malfunction, you may need to train to 25 or 50 yards. It takes about a second or 2 to get a sight picture at that distant but hitting a man sized torso at that distance is absolute child's play with training. There's just no reason. Adding unnecessary weight and size for negligible benefit.
The weight is next to nothing and the size may be something you'd consider for conceal carry. No reason not to unless your gun is hard to conceal or you're broke.
@@Justin-rq6kf just my opinion, you're entitled to yours. A pistol isn't a primary weapon, any extra weight and height is a detriment. Again, to ME, personally. It's a detriment because if I'm CC'ing then I don't want people to see my weapon, a red dot doesn't do any favors with that. If I'm in full battle rattle then my pistol is going to be on my belt, open carried with 2 spare mags, in that event ANY weight is going to be bad weight because I'll already have a lot of weight on me. And I'll add, I've used red dot pistols, I hit targets just as fast at up to about 35 yards with irons. So to ME, adding any weight and height to get NO added benefit save for possible hard failure of the optic just isn't worth the $. Now, how you use a pistol may be different from how I use a pistol and you're entitled to use a gun however you think is best, that's how freedom works. The Army taught me what the point of a pistol is, when I got out I threw concealed carry in with that. Use a red dot, use a magnified optic, use a musket. Idc. Stating that there are only 2 reasons NOT to put a red dot on a pistol and that 1 of those is because you're "broke" is a pretty arrogant and ignorant, not to mention divisive statement. Where in my original post did I attack anyone or come off as anything but respectfully giving my opinion, my educated opinion, btw? This is the internet so you're going to come back with another measurement of your dick in comment form, even though all I did was clarify my original post and add that your post was a bit aggressive.
I agree. It’s overkill if the intended purpose is concealed carry. Unnecessary weight and one more thing to fail. Also people say backup irons if it fails what happens in close quarters? Will you be able to train for that split second difference of switching between irons ? On a rifle shooting far distances you have time to!
Red dots all day. Easiest ways to mitigate all the cons mentioned, get an enclosed pistol sight so debris can't block the light, get a holosun so you don't have to take the optic off to replace the battery, and keep batteries on hand for when your battery dies. Done deal
"Hold up mister bad guy. My battery died. Let me just swap it out real quick..." Also, an enclosed sight doesn't prevent dirt or mud obstruction the window, or excessive light from drowning out the dot.
Anybody who has ever moved through the woods in heavy rain, snow, muddy conditions with a pistol on their side with a red dot either knows how unreliable they can be, or is lying... I've had my optic and thus my pistol rendered entirely useless due to snow, rain and mud completely occluding the glass. Sure I can clean it when I see it's getting debris on it, but unless you want to have to constantly unholster and clean it repeatedly all day, it must be protected. Cowitness irons don't mean shit if u can't even see through the window. Ive since had to buy 2 new holsters which was expensive as hell, to fix the issue. Only a kydex holster WITH A HOOD, or a concealed holster that keeps the gun/optic protected until needed.... But the days of a Ragnarok holster on a gun belt is GONE for me, because I choose to use a red dot. Worth it to me, but something u have to consider. Last thing u want is to draw your backup gun IE your pistol, and realize u can't see through it. That's a bad way to die...
I am loving this joke that enclosing the emitter will somehow magically keep crud from getting on the viewing lens itself. 😂 you guys should be in standup comedy.
Just sent my Px4 Compact off to LTT to get it cut for optics. I've heard it outperforms most full-size pistols with LTT's Compact Carry upgrades. Can't wait to get it back.
Red dots are not faster, red dots are more accurate and do help with combat focus. Unfortunately if you have eye issues that dot could show up as a star burst. Train with both a find what works best for you
Bro if all the World Champions like Ben Stoeger and JJ Racaza need their sights, that means YOU need them too and your performance isn't at the level you think it is.
Considering red dot for pistol after 25 years of irons. Not to replace, but for faster acquisition. Not medically necessary. Interested in your reason/s why you dislike RDs?
RDS improved my speed and accuracy of shots on target. In the end, it dont matter how many rounds you shoot, it usually comes down to who hits first and the most times. I can shoot well with either, but I am quicker with RDS, so that is what I shoot.
Another advantage with red dots is you can shoot them under NODs. It’s impossible to use iron sights with night vision. I refused to adopt a red dot on my pistol until I there was an optic with a low enough deck height to be able to co-witness standard height iron sights. Sig finally answered my problem with the Romeo X.
Supperssor height sights for irons, and red dot as well. I just made the switch, and having the dot zeroed to "just the tip 😉" of the front sight post has made it easy. I recommend doing this for people who just made the switch from irons to red dot because i was terrible with a dot when i started due to my shooting form & not being able to easily find the dot. It's like you can push the front sight post out as you're acquiring your target & the dot appears as you do that, then my eyes lock in on the dot & my eyeballs dont focus on the irons anymore. It's a nice experience.
@@armenchuck suppressor height sights because if your dot goes out for whatever reason you can still see your iron sights through your red dot ....unless you have some QD for your pistol if so i would like to see that😅
I’ll always go with a red dot but I prefer to have irons on there as back up. I realize that’s a little more difficult with a pistol that’s more of a rifle set up. For a pistol yeah red dot absolutely but you need to make sure you have the tools with you to take it off and switch it back to your irons if your red dot fails.
@C B I’ve seen it happen 7 times in the last year. Multiple glocks have walked loose as well as a 2500 dollar kimber and a Springfield prodigy. It’s not if, it’s when.
Red dots all day. Easiest ways to mitigate all the cons mentioned, get an enclosed pistol sight so debris can't block the light, get a holosun so you don't have to take the optic off to replace the battery, and keep batteries on hand for when your battery dies. Done deal
@@lamorferguson950 The batteries are so affordable, so I just replace them every four or five months. No need to wait til they’re blinking. Excellent point about the ease of battery replacement with Holosun. That’s why I have choose them. No way I’m taking a RD off to replace the battery!
I'm old, gen X, and still use iron sights. Red dots are cool and everything, but they are complicated. Complicated things can brake or fail you. Normally, thanks to Mr Murphy, when you need them to actually work.
I don’t care what anyone says or how much you train, you will ALWAYS be able to acquire a target faster with iron sights. All of the drills you’ve done with your red dot aren’t going to matter when someone is 15 feet away barreling towards you with a knife. The red dot is only good once your arms are fully extended and you’re in the proper aiming position. You simply don’t know where exactly your handgun is aiming in those precious seconds where you’re raising your gun up, ESPECIALLY if your attacker is in very close proximity to you where things are as hectic as possible. Irons give you the context of where your gun is aiming through your peripheral AS you’re pulling it into aiming position, which gives you the ability to acquire your target significantly faster. You don’t have to “find” your reticle like you do with a red dot. If you’re going for accuracy and a super tight grouping at the range the red dot will win almost every time. If you think it’s going to pull through for you in a close range self defense situation you’re smoking crack.
bruh if someone is 15 ft away from u, it literally doesn’t matter what is on ur gun. u just point and shoot as fast as u can without focusing on any sights.
i used red dots then i went back to iron sight and i found that i become more proficient with those.. i can use them both.. but i think iron sights are 100% ready when i draw in a real need situation
Thank God you remembered to wear fatigues on the closed range. It definitely builds confidence and trust from those who think you're just a grown man, LARPing, saying commonsensical things that most children could identify. Bless you.
Just use the Cowboy Way....hit where you look...point shoulder looking over the sights. It's what you're gonna do in a real fire fight anyway so you might as well practice it. Never hear about IT tho.
I am torn, but one thing I don't like about red dot is maintenance lint and debris suck. If you don't clean your carry gun red dot every day it gets bad fast.
Back and forth. In my previous assignment, red dot was the no brainer go to because we had nothing but time to train to be professional gun fighters. Now in my current assignment I'm back on irons, just because of the low maintenance and less time training.
Best advantage to irons. The money saved on the optic, the batteries, the time learning the optic. All of which will translate to minimal time gains. So all in all red dots are like surefire lights. They are on your weapon so you can fit in with the cool kids and not get made fun of
I feel like shooting pistols in self defense is mostly muscle memory after training I think a dot has to been found before firing when someone is coming at Yu firing i don’t need to look through a glass and find a dot I need to use muscle memory lot of Yu red dot users never been shot at trust me your natural muscle memory knows iron sights way better those dots are range toys two threats stand in front of Yu at 15 feet Yu should be using muscle memory to quickly hit away and hit at this point I’m barely even using iron sights it’s all muscle memory
Red dots are vastly superior, there is zero upkeep, as my battery is going strong after a year of EDC lol. Also the chance of them failing is basically zero, at least in my experience. Plus Army trains with red dot sights these days, so I’m used to it.
Guys. Shooting irons will make you faster with the dot and vice versa. It’s the same motor skill. You’ll find you also get faster at one if you use the other.
I’ve found most people I’ve met (in person) at sessions, the gun shops, or the ranges, that say they prefer irons; have never actually shot dots, or bothered to get past the learning curve to be introduced to the added benefits.
As an Austrian once said, "vy not boff?" Get one of those multi sights so when you need to use a red dot you have it and when you need to use irons you have it. Then you can also have a zoomed red dot for when you need that if you can manage switching between 3 sights on a single gun
I thought they were very extra until I shot a pistol with them. Consistent 100yd shots with a subcompact opened my eyes. I’m now a red dot fan. Still have irons obviously but the red dot is a game changer.
I go back and forth. I like red dots as much as I like irons, but I like them both for different reasons such as those stated here. I mean imo the best you can do is a red dot with suppressor height sights, rear sight in front of the red dot. You always have a backup if the red dot goes down or if you can’t find the dot in the heat of the moment, but it’s set up in a way that makes it easier to find the dot first before resorting to irons. I think being able to effectively shoot with irons needs to be first priority. I’ve seen a lot of people go straight to a dot because it’s the cool new thing now, but you need to be able to use your irons properly and effectively first, then practice with a red dot. Then practice using irons with a red dot in scenarios where the red dot is functioning and not functioning
Red dots definitely have a higher skill cap, but to me, their biggest downfall is the brightness. Dynamic environments and the use of wml can change the brightness of the environment quickly. Even auto adjusting dots aren't quite there yet.
Another advantage of red dots is a larger sight picture. Which allows you to gather more info about your target and see more of what's going on around them
Being able to shoot well with both can be a detriment. If one fails you can always go back to the irons and have a relatively smooth transition if you train well with both. Feel free to use what you're comfortable with. But be confident that if one fails you'll be able to use the other with no problem.
I like red dots for casual range day and longer shots, but irons for self defense and tactical situations, I run lots of shooting events for my job and I’ve seen lots of shooters good and bad look around for their red dot
Team front sight only. I dont use rear sights because they are slower, obscure the target, and the only engagements my handgun will ever be used for is practically point shooting distance (in house failure to fire on the main, or defensive shooting in my own home.)
TEAM FROM THE HIP🎯
My man
Dat was funny
based
I don't wanna miss all my shots
If you’ve never shot a Barrett M82 from the hip, don’t call yourself a sniper!
“Shooting from a distance without a red dot is a lil challenging” *dings the target” 😭😭
For real. Sounds like a skill issue.
You should be efficient with both. Never put all your eggs in one basket. You want to be able to pick up any weapon and be effective. And always fight your way to a force multiplier when possible. Train with both and you won’t be left making excuses.
My irons are a little bent
I uh
I
Yeah..
Should see the new competition 12g
Or, iron sights.
Thank you for this comment
@@otterpop5551 point and shoot.... Most civilian gunfights are closer in range not all but most
I always hate when I have to do the maintenance on my red dot, changing the fluid is the worst part, I get the stuff everywhere.
😂
Do you use blinker fluid?
@@philbertshevitz3113never use blinkerfluid on reddots. Reddots need a constant dot while blinkers go on and of every few seconds. If you use blinkerfluid on your reddot, it might start turning on and of which is annoying
@@rhabeldibabeldi6812 I used blinker fluid once, when I was young and dumb. It shot every time it blinked. Was very annoying.
@rhabeldibabeldi6812 - You didn’t just “Go there”! You built the house, moved us in, and forced us to pay rent! 🤣👍
Team iron sight! Red dots are fun and have a function, but if you can’t shoot accurately with the iron sights you are putting yourself at a disadvantage
Ironically having a red dot made me better at shooting irons.
Red dots are faster! Train both but speed and accuracy are the things that matter in a gun fight!
Gotta get the suppressor height sights with the red dots. Why choose when you can have both? 😎
I’ll have to disagree. I’ve seen two novices improve groupings with red dots after shooting irons.
Shooting fundamentals are the same whether it’s RDS or irons. Grip, trigger discipline, and recoil management all apply to both.
I was trained with irons by my Father and the Army,but as I get older I've noticed red dots are easier to focus in on my targets. Half my pistols are iron sights the others are red dot
My father was career army so going out into the woods to go shooting with his government buddies was a family rite of passage lol. I don’t think I picked up a Red Dot until my teens so irons all the way
Practice both!
If your optic is low enough to utilize your iron sights, You’re in luck.
Red dots are superior, but being effective with irons if your red dot malfunctions is always a good thing to master.
Suppressor height sights have entered the chat
One thousand percent this.
@@nathanskupowski4726OOOOOhhhhhhh that’s nice! However I worry a bit about bending those sights.
If I practice and treat it well I should be fine
Which it will. Two deputies Trijicon red dots failed during pistol training. That was enough for me not to buy one. Plus, they cost as much as the pistol
Something isn’t superior if it can “malfunction”.
Iron sites can’t “malfunction” unless you do something ridiculous to them like beat them with a hammer.
A malfunction at the wrong time in a gunfight will kill you in real life.
Red dots are not superior they’re just the new hotness and have their advantages and disadvantages.
You all merely adopted the iron... I was BORN in it!
Same bro
Fun fact . Both can fit on the same gun.
Well said.
CO WITNESS
real AND true
@@hnojic Get an adaptor plate, easy
Not all pistols come equipped with RMR cuts to add on red dots.
So Cal Deputy here: I’m keeping it simple with my Dawson fiber optic irons. Two Deputies had their Trijicon red dots fail on them during my last pistol training day. It’s just another thing to go wrong, plus, they cost just as much as the pistol. On top of that is the added cost of a whole new holster.
Master the basics (irons) before moving on to the red dot. 🤘
I disagree. The basics of shooting apply whether you're shooting a red dot, or irons. One is simply much more effective than the other.
Target focused shooting is the strongest point in favor for red dots. And if they fail, you always still have iron sights.
Not if you can't see through the glass due to snow, rain, and mud.
That's the issue I'm having, during last deer season as I was going through the woods my red dot and thus my pistol was unusable due to snow/water falling into it while going through brush ect. Atleast with the exposed holster I was wearing.
Ended up using only a concealed holster now as it keeps the gun protected until needed. No more kydex holster on a gun belt, unless it's one with a hood. And I've since had to buy 2 new holsters to fix that, which was expensive AF...but worth it
@@mrdark9916 check out a safariland RDS holster for red dot protection. But also, wipe it off? Wouldn’t you have the same problem with irons anyways getting muddy?
@@mrdark9916 get a better red dot.
@@mrdark9916 why are you deer hunting with a handgun????? Depending on what handgun it is, that is a terrible way to just injure an animal and not dispatch it on the first shot.
@@joshdennis8841 it's a sidearm bro.... Lol 😂
Team both
I’m team both
Iron sights never fail. you can train to be very quick with them too
I’ve personally watched irons walk loose on cheap handguns all the way up to 2500 dollar custom kimber 1911s. I’ve also seen the Springfield prodigy have sights walk loose.
@@joshdennis8841 ive never seen that before. Nothing a center punch cant fix anyway.
Tell me you don’t shoot very much without telling me.
@@mikebrase5161 I’ve seen at least a dozen front sights get yeeted into space at matches, and various brand adjustable rear sights shit the bed too.
I have at least three officers a year (small dept) come to me because their rear sight has drifted in the dovetail. About the same amount who have the Glock front sight screw loosen up I see annually (and I GREEN loctite that shit when I install them).
This is not uncommon. And it’s not just Glock.
SIG x-ray front sights are fragile as hell, and like to snap off even using SIG’s own tool.
The Trijicon sights in M&Ps made specifically for SW like to have the tritium inserts fall out during firing.
They definitely can fail lol. I’ve seen some front sights pop out, rear sights walk left or right and fiber optic blowing out if your gun is comped.
Thanks GIJoe.👍
Keep your irons on with your red dot. If your red dot fails, you still have irons. With this in mind, there is no good reason outside of $$$ to not use a red dot unless you carry a pocket pistol, a revolver or just think they are ugly.
Love both, have a red dot on my 509 tactical and it's perfect for that setup and night sights on my 10mm rapide and both work beautifully
Lower 1/3 cowitness for the ones who don't have time to argue about what's better and just get both.
Like the way you think, almost all of my pistols have rmr's with 1/3 co witness irons. Best of both worlds!
I’ve been searching pros and cons of irons & red dots for a couple days now and this guy explained everything I was looking for in a couple seconds 👍🏻
Both have their uses.. I went back to irons from a red dot
I like irons because a dirty piece of glass just pisses me off. I already have to deal with glasses, I don't want to be looking through another linty, dusty, dirty filter.
Besides, a really quick way to shoot irons is a sort of rear sight focus. If your target is larger than the rear sight notch, and your front sight is visible in the notch, as long as your handgun is zeroed, you will hit.
Target focus fixes the smudges because you should only be seeing the dot anyway
What a good short.
Well done.
Well said.
Depends on red dot... open can be faster or easier for certain situations... they are not slower per say
Red Dots are a nice add on, but be proficient with irons first. Also, if you live in Alaska or other extreme climates, red dots are also a disadvantage. Red dots also compromise a little on conceal-ability. You also need to practice your draw to first shot even MORE with a red dot. If you're not a student of the game and just like to exercise your 2A rights, then iron sights would be more ideal, especially if you don't have the time or resources to live fire train at least once a month. A lot of these people you see online train regularly with their optic sights and what they do does not translate to your Real Life results.
You should be proficient with irons first. That should be secondary. People pick up on shooting and fundamentals faster with dots than they do with irons, and it actually makes learning irons easier if you started with a dot.
Every shooter ive ever met who consistently trains with a dot over irons has had a faster learning curve with the fundamentals, and given it does a better job of teaching proper target focused shooting, what you learn on a dot tends to translate to irons easier than what you learn on irons transferring to dot use. You said it yourself, when you get a dot you have to train more, but if youre carrying you should simply be training more anyway🤷🏼 in reality most people get this idea because old school irons shooters still shoot front sight focused and never learn to shoot target focused. Using a dot speeds up that learning curve for using both of your eyes properly. Personally, i spent two years and 3k rounds on irons before I picked up my first dot, after less than 6 months of training with it I was bounds better at tracking my recoil and diagnosing trigger issues off of watching the dot in dryfire alone. Having a dot doesnt just give you opportunity to shoot more accurately they also serve as a great learning tool for improving your shooting mechanics and self diagnosing trouble areas. Also as a side note to this rant ive taught dozens of people to shoot and most of them have had an easier time shooting a dot for the first time than irons, I usually bring one of each to teach them. Hope some of this is useful to you
@@Elitist8 Most people don't j have time (or money) to train that much. Dry fire can only take you so far. Try to consider that the average person's income and for life schedules before assuming such things please. This type of mentality is exactly what deters people from wanting to exercise their 2A rights.
@@notveryserious4508 Again, please see my reply to Elitist8. Thanks
@@DeusRegum a red dot is a significantly better dryfire tool than iron sights. You see exactly what your inputs are doing to your sights.
Astigmatism issues give many shooters ( like myself ) a poor sunburst view, or even multiple reticles. I d put my money on tritium NS and a Inforce rail light
Severe astigmatism is the only legitimate “irons are better for me” reason.
But bruh Inforce makes hot trash, buy a decent light.
^^^^^
same, astigmatism creates a MAJOR sunburst effect but the principle remains, know yourself and your tools. I personally like lasers with irons because of astigmatism.
I see crazy stuff when I look (uncorrected) at a dot. That being said , I've found that light power readers clean that right up. Also if I use a large circle reticle (not a dot) it's basically a non issue.
Perhaps some day they can get holographic tech small enough for pistols. I’ve heard EOTechs are better for astigmatisms, but I don’t have either of them, so I don’t know.
The age old debate of performance vs reliability.
What I like to do is train for 10-20 reps reflex on a range, 15-30 reps iron sight, to practice getting sight alignment sight picture, then switch to practice 20-40 reps red dot, to practice using what I intend to primarily use.
If I can efficiently and rapidly bring a two part apparatus up to target, I can do it with a single part apparatus, (referring to the actual components for aiming, not the physical make up of the device).
This is done with the thought in mind that the alignment of the sight with respect to alignment of the eye to the sight changes for red dot compared to irons.
Short version, I practice the hard thing for speed as part of a pace plan, then i practice the easy thing in accordance to actual use.
Red dot>iron>reflex shooting, practicing in reverse order, with ascending repetitions, so that the primary method of aiming is the freshest in the mind, and most trained.
Please note, the method I use for practicing aiming is for dry fire and for static shooting; for tactical or dynamic training environments, I train primarily on the dot, and induce failures of my optic (using an old battery and/or loosening the battery cap) to train myself to reflexively utilize my pace plan.
No, I don't induce failures on my irons, I don't know how to do that without risking an unnecessary trip to a gunsmith.
If you have any input, I'd be glad to read it over.
Pro iron. Used both, but I'm old school.
Team red iron
For me, one of the biggest benefits of dot sights is the massive advantage they give during low light shooting.
Nice video, no stupidly long intro and straight to the point. Well done!
Have both. I have had irons break on 2 glocks and 1 P320. Had one red dot come loose and fly off and one where the screw came loose. They both can fail.
@C B it’s not rare, it’s actually fairly common if you shoot your gun more than once a year.
I’ve had more irons fly off or drift than red dot issues
Red dots are pretty rugged and reliable nowadays tho
I only use iron sights on pistols. The new trend towards outfitting pistols like duty rifles is a bit much and muddies the waters of what a pistol exists for. That would be: concealed carry, fighting your way to your rifle and as a last ditch weapon if your rifle goes down.
For concealed carry, the 3 shots at 3-7 are point shooting and can be trained for.
For fighting to your rifle and using if your rifle has a hard malfunction, you may need to train to 25 or 50 yards. It takes about a second or 2 to get a sight picture at that distant but hitting a man sized torso at that distance is absolute child's play with training.
There's just no reason. Adding unnecessary weight and size for negligible benefit.
I agree with you 1 million %!
The weight is next to nothing and the size may be something you'd consider for conceal carry. No reason not to unless your gun is hard to conceal or you're broke.
@@Justin-rq6kf just my opinion, you're entitled to yours. A pistol isn't a primary weapon, any extra weight and height is a detriment. Again, to ME, personally. It's a detriment because if I'm CC'ing then I don't want people to see my weapon, a red dot doesn't do any favors with that. If I'm in full battle rattle then my pistol is going to be on my belt, open carried with 2 spare mags, in that event ANY weight is going to be bad weight because I'll already have a lot of weight on me. And I'll add, I've used red dot pistols, I hit targets just as fast at up to about 35 yards with irons. So to ME, adding any weight and height to get NO added benefit save for possible hard failure of the optic just isn't worth the $.
Now, how you use a pistol may be different from how I use a pistol and you're entitled to use a gun however you think is best, that's how freedom works. The Army taught me what the point of a pistol is, when I got out I threw concealed carry in with that. Use a red dot, use a magnified optic, use a musket. Idc.
Stating that there are only 2 reasons NOT to put a red dot on a pistol and that 1 of those is because you're "broke" is a pretty arrogant and ignorant, not to mention divisive statement. Where in my original post did I attack anyone or come off as anything but respectfully giving my opinion, my educated opinion, btw? This is the internet so you're going to come back with another measurement of your dick in comment form, even though all I did was clarify my original post and add that your post was a bit aggressive.
I agree. It’s overkill if the intended purpose is concealed carry. Unnecessary weight and one more thing to fail. Also people say backup irons if it fails what happens in close quarters? Will you be able to train for that split second difference of switching between irons ? On a rifle shooting far distances you have time to!
I'm team BOTH, BUT, I don't believe one should use a red dot unless proficient with Irons.
That's actually detrimental to the learning curve. It's better to learn on a red dot, then learn irons as a backup.
Red dots all day. Easiest ways to mitigate all the cons mentioned, get an enclosed pistol sight so debris can't block the light, get a holosun so you don't have to take the optic off to replace the battery, and keep batteries on hand for when your battery dies. Done deal
I bought a Holosun with the solar panel, it does work. The panel keeps the dot on during the day even if the battery is dead.
What about rmr is it as easy to maintain?
"Hold up mister bad guy. My battery died. Let me just swap it out real quick..."
Also, an enclosed sight doesn't prevent dirt or mud obstruction the window, or excessive light from drowning out the dot.
Anybody who has ever moved through the woods in heavy rain, snow, muddy conditions with a pistol on their side with a red dot either knows how unreliable they can be, or is lying... I've had my optic and thus my pistol rendered entirely useless due to snow, rain and mud completely occluding the glass. Sure I can clean it when I see it's getting debris on it, but unless you want to have to constantly unholster and clean it repeatedly all day, it must be protected. Cowitness irons don't mean shit if u can't even see through the window.
Ive since had to buy 2 new holsters which was expensive as hell, to fix the issue.
Only a kydex holster WITH A HOOD, or a concealed holster that keeps the gun/optic protected until needed....
But the days of a Ragnarok holster on a gun belt is GONE for me, because I choose to use a red dot. Worth it to me, but something u have to consider.
Last thing u want is to draw your backup gun IE your pistol, and realize u can't see through it. That's a bad way to die...
Or just get a closed emitter
@@Elitist8EPS= (Enclosed Pistol Sight.) 😉😁
@@davidhudson2527Bingo.
That is why all optic compnies have moved to closed emitters. Same size, much more robust
I am loving this joke that enclosing the emitter will somehow magically keep crud from getting on the viewing lens itself. 😂 you guys should be in standup comedy.
TEAM BLINDFOLD STAND TALL!!
Thats why i use the sig romeo zero red dot. Has irons built in for back up
Team iron sights here! Night sights in particular!
"Team horse and buddy here!"
Why night sights? You don't ID your targets?
If you get good enough with a pistol "aligning the sights" isn't really a con. It's muscle memory. I pull up and they're aligned.
Red Dot to my P320. Iron with my Beretta PX4. Love shooting both. Great to practice with both.
Just sent my Px4 Compact off to LTT to get it cut for optics. I've heard it outperforms most full-size pistols with LTT's Compact Carry upgrades. Can't wait to get it back.
Best move would be to be good at using both. Carry whichever one you like, but he what Clint Smith calls a "student of weaponscraft".
Red dots are not faster, red dots are more accurate and do help with combat focus. Unfortunately if you have eye issues that dot could show up as a star burst. Train with both a find what works best for you
Team Iron. Less maintenance, less to go wrong, less to buy, less to worry about.
This
I see you've never seen a front sight post go into orbit
I was shooting the other day and wasn’t carrying an extra battery! No dot, and it’s hard to aim without seeing the rear sight.
Being right hand, left eye dominant. Irons are faster for me personally.
Let’s keep this run going bro looking forward to our next win with the upcoming matches betting makes it even better
I shoot so much I don't even need sights anymore, they're just there for the person who picks it up after I'm done with it.
Yeah, i dont even need to look at the target anymore
Ok rambo 😂
Okay hotshot! 😂
Bro if all the World Champions like Ben Stoeger and JJ Racaza need their sights, that means YOU need them too and your performance isn't at the level you think it is.
Iron sights 100%. On so many levels.
Considering red dot for pistol after 25 years of irons. Not to replace, but for faster acquisition. Not medically necessary. Interested in your reason/s why you dislike RDs?
RDS improved my speed and accuracy of shots on target. In the end, it dont matter how many rounds you shoot, it usually comes down to who hits first and the most times. I can shoot well with either, but I am quicker with RDS, so that is what I shoot.
Another advantage with red dots is you can shoot them under NODs. It’s impossible to use iron sights with night vision.
I refused to adopt a red dot on my pistol until I there was an optic with a low enough deck height to be able to co-witness standard height iron sights. Sig finally answered my problem with the Romeo X.
Supperssor height sights for irons, and red dot as well. I just made the switch, and having the dot zeroed to "just the tip 😉" of the front sight post has made it easy. I recommend doing this for people who just made the switch from irons to red dot because i was terrible with a dot when i started due to my shooting form & not being able to easily find the dot.
It's like you can push the front sight post out as you're acquiring your target & the dot appears as you do that, then my eyes lock in on the dot & my eyeballs dont focus on the irons anymore. It's a nice experience.
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS AND SLAVING THE. TO THE IRONS?!?!?!
HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE ADVICE!!!!!!
@@armenchuck suppressor height sights because if your dot goes out for whatever reason you can still see your iron sights through your red dot ....unless you have some QD for your pistol if so i would like to see that😅
Little bit of this and a little bit of that… but I’m all irons on my carry guns.
I’ll always go with a red dot but I prefer to have irons on there as back up. I realize that’s a little more difficult with a pistol that’s more of a rifle set up. For a pistol yeah red dot absolutely but you need to make sure you have the tools with you to take it off and switch it back to your irons if your red dot fails.
Irons exclusively on my handguns. 50/50 irons and red dots on my rifles
Please explain which upkeep and environmental factors? Other than switching batteries once a year and wiping dust off if it even gets on the lens
Rain, dirt, snow. Heat will fuxk with red dots. Battieries arent always readily availabile. Wires will break, glass can break.
@@marshallwhite2619Closed emitter. All your problems solved
Seen iron sights back off a gun. Like everything that is man made it will eventually fail.
I can still use my irons with my green dot, so if it goes out I can use irons
@C B I’ve seen it happen 7 times in the last year. Multiple glocks have walked loose as well as a 2500 dollar kimber and a Springfield prodigy. It’s not if, it’s when.
I really like that with a red dot I am target focused instead of front site focused. Which just speeds me up. Be proficient with both.
both, both is good
I stick with iron sights
Why use either? Point-shoot everything. LOL.
Sometimes a threat is farther than 7 yards.
Based
i love how red dot in almost all video games never moved from the center of the box. unlike real life.
Outstanding 👍🏻👍🏻. At 62 optics are becoming more of a positive.
Team iron
Definitely gotta go with irons.
Red dots all day. Easiest ways to mitigate all the cons mentioned, get an enclosed pistol sight so debris can't block the light, get a holosun so you don't have to take the optic off to replace the battery, and keep batteries on hand for when your battery dies. Done deal
Leave irons in the last century where they belong.
High sights and red dots..... problem solved
@@lamorferguson950 The batteries are so affordable, so I just replace them every four or five months. No need to wait til they’re blinking. Excellent point about the ease of battery replacement with Holosun. That’s why I have choose them. No way I’m taking a RD off to replace the battery!
Training is the key to everything
I'm old, gen X, and still use iron sights. Red dots are cool and everything, but they are complicated. Complicated things can brake or fail you. Normally, thanks to Mr Murphy, when you need them to actually work.
What’s complicated about them?
@@ALswampfoxOn/Off buttons are hard for some folks, apparently.
I don’t care what anyone says or how much you train, you will ALWAYS be able to acquire a target faster with iron sights.
All of the drills you’ve done with your red dot aren’t going to matter when someone is 15 feet away barreling towards you with a knife. The red dot is only good once your arms are fully extended and you’re in the proper aiming position. You simply don’t know where exactly your handgun is aiming in those precious seconds where you’re raising your gun up, ESPECIALLY if your attacker is in very close proximity to you where things are as hectic as possible.
Irons give you the context of where your gun is aiming through your peripheral AS you’re pulling it into aiming position, which gives you the ability to acquire your target significantly faster. You don’t have to “find” your reticle like you do with a red dot.
If you’re going for accuracy and a super tight grouping at the range the red dot will win almost every time. If you think it’s going to pull through for you in a close range self defense situation you’re smoking crack.
bruh if someone is 15 ft away from u, it literally doesn’t matter what is on ur gun. u just point and shoot as fast as u can without focusing on any sights.
That's exactly why I keep my Mosin bayonet Fixed!
Everything you said is just plain wrong lol. Dots are used because they're faster than irons in every single way, even presentation.
Data doesn't lie. In competition, Carry Optics shooters always score higher as a group than in Production (irons only).
Red dots with closed emitter is the way
i used red dots then i went back to iron sight and i found that i become more proficient with those.. i can use them both.. but i think iron sights are 100% ready when i draw in a real need situation
Red dot is the way
Iron sights…durables, hards, always ready.
yep but both is better. Your red dot die, you have your iron sight
If you have tritium irons, that’s the way to go for a handgun
Thank God you remembered to wear fatigues on the closed range.
It definitely builds confidence and trust from those who think you're just a grown man, LARPing, saying commonsensical things that most children could identify.
Bless you.
Just use the Cowboy Way....hit where you look...point shoulder looking over the sights. It's what you're gonna do in a real fire fight anyway so you might as well practice it. Never hear about IT tho.
I am team "I don't have a weapon, I just got this recommended by youtube"
I am torn, but one thing I don't like about red dot is maintenance lint and debris suck. If you don't clean your carry gun red dot every day it gets bad fast.
Yea bro mine was so dirty, I just went back to iron sights. And they make the pistol wider
Back and forth. In my previous assignment, red dot was the no brainer go to because we had nothing but time to train to be professional gun fighters. Now in my current assignment I'm back on irons, just because of the low maintenance and less time training.
Best advantage to irons. The money saved on the optic, the batteries, the time learning the optic. All of which will translate to minimal time gains. So all in all red dots are like surefire lights. They are on your weapon so you can fit in with the cool kids and not get made fun of
For self defense irons, if you look at statistics most gun fights happen in extremely close range (3 yds or less)
For targets, range day, etc red dots
Pistol- irons
Rifle- LPVO (1x6), red dot
using a red dot. Learning how to use and practicing/training which always helps your confidence. I like it ;D
I feel like shooting pistols in self defense is mostly muscle memory after training I think a dot has to been found before firing when someone is coming at Yu firing i don’t need to look through a glass and find a dot I need to use muscle memory lot of Yu red dot users never been shot at trust me your natural muscle memory knows iron sights way better those dots are range toys two threats stand in front of Yu at 15 feet Yu should be using muscle memory to quickly hit away and hit at this point I’m barely even using iron sights it’s all muscle memory
Red dots are vastly superior, there is zero upkeep, as my battery is going strong after a year of EDC lol. Also the chance of them failing is basically zero, at least in my experience. Plus Army trains with red dot sights these days, so I’m used to it.
Just won betting on Canada vs Scotland! Taking those good vibes into tomorrow’s matches, betting on West Indies next
Guys. Shooting irons will make you faster with the dot and vice versa. It’s the same motor skill. You’ll find you also get faster at one if you use the other.
Both. Both have practical applications and both can utilized and should be utilized.
I’ve found most people I’ve met (in person) at sessions, the gun shops, or the ranges, that say they prefer irons; have never actually shot dots, or bothered to get past the learning curve to be introduced to the added benefits.
As an Austrian once said, "vy not boff?" Get one of those multi sights so when you need to use a red dot you have it and when you need to use irons you have it. Then you can also have a zoomed red dot for when you need that if you can manage switching between 3 sights on a single gun
Having never used a red dot on a pistol, I really like the points you bring up in the video. Guess I need to get one and try it out
I thought they were very extra until I shot a pistol with them. Consistent 100yd shots with a subcompact opened my eyes. I’m now a red dot fan. Still have irons obviously but the red dot is a game changer.
Iron sights all day long and they also make some awesome fiber optic sights that glow in the dark very easy to pick up day or night.
I go back and forth. I like red dots as much as I like irons, but I like them both for different reasons such as those stated here. I mean imo the best you can do is a red dot with suppressor height sights, rear sight in front of the red dot. You always have a backup if the red dot goes down or if you can’t find the dot in the heat of the moment, but it’s set up in a way that makes it easier to find the dot first before resorting to irons.
I think being able to effectively shoot with irons needs to be first priority. I’ve seen a lot of people go straight to a dot because it’s the cool new thing now, but you need to be able to use your irons properly and effectively first, then practice with a red dot. Then practice using irons with a red dot in scenarios where the red dot is functioning and not functioning
Red dots definitely have a higher skill cap, but to me, their biggest downfall is the brightness. Dynamic environments and the use of wml can change the brightness of the environment quickly. Even auto adjusting dots aren't quite there yet.
Another advantage of red dots is a larger sight picture. Which allows you to gather more info about your target and see more of what's going on around them
Being able to shoot well with both can be a detriment. If one fails you can always go back to the irons and have a relatively smooth transition if you train well with both. Feel free to use what you're comfortable with. But be confident that if one fails you'll be able to use the other with no problem.
I like red dots for casual range day and longer shots, but irons for self defense and tactical situations, I run lots of shooting events for my job and I’ve seen lots of shooters good and bad look around for their red dot
Set up co-witness sights - best of both worlds
Irons can fail too. I’ve seen them pop out entirely or scoot to the left or right.
Team front sight only. I dont use rear sights because they are slower, obscure the target, and the only engagements my handgun will ever be used for is practically point shooting distance (in house failure to fire on the main, or defensive shooting in my own home.)