it’s also been established that alcohol doesn’t affect Thor. in the first movie, he and Selvig stay out all night drinking, to the point where Thor, completely fine, has to carry a hammered Selvig home. then in Ragnarok he downs two massive mugs of beer from Dr Strange. if anything, he should’ve turned to drinking and just been buried by even more frustration that it had no affect on masking his pain
@@Hashbrown1682 exactly, and says to the Stan Lee cameo to be careful, it isnt made for mortals, but Stan tries anyway, and blacks out from just a drop
@@sztallone415 Yes! EXACTLY!! That's what I've been saying! Everyone is so willing to accept that he can just let himself go over 5 years because of his mental state. But it breaks the previously established laws of physics that apply to Thor which you 2 so perfectly laid out. Miss me with fat Thor
@@XxsteamerxX yes! I try to explain this to people. He's a god. Earth beer doesnt do anything to him. Fat thor is funny but it should have never existed
Driven, ruthless, cold-hearted...so he'd become like Odin was before? Sounds like that would be an interesting and poignant plot point which would make the encounter with his mother even deeper. Huh. Shame.
Yep and his mother would show him that he's become like how odin used to be, and thus setting him on a path to better himself, that he can still improve just as his father did before it's to late
@lopez and we’ve seen people becoming a drunk loser while grieving a million more times. Both are played out tropes it’s just that trope in particular is more in character than what we got with haha funny drunk depressed Thor playing popular Battle Royale game
@lopez Really there wasn’t that much depth at all. His depression is played off as a joke the whole movie and not taken seriously until he talked to his mother and then his depression was instantly cured.
@lopez You’re missing my point. My biggest issue is that his depression was used as a joke by the writers and how quickly it was resolved. In the scenes showing Thors depression it isn’t framed in a way that it’s tragic but rather it’s used for comedy. The audience isn’t supposed to feel sorry for him, they’re meant to laugh at him. Also rather than him working throughout the movie to better himself mentally, it is played off as a joke until he meets his mother and it’s instantly resolved after one conversation.
"I laid low your warriors of old. I instilled terror in the hearts of men. *I am Queen under the Mountain!"* - "Tessa Thompson: The Definition of Smug"
One of the writers pooped out a funny joke and they altered an entire character arc to shoehorn it in? That's the best explanation I've heard so far. The writers really are incompetent enough to do that.
@King of Knights I was pissed at this. Thor isn't a worthy leader of Asgrad bit the fucking alcholilic, deserting, slaver is? This is how you can tell Marvel is doomed. My friends and I went to see this movie. We rarely agree on movies. Especially strongly agree. All 3 of us agreed that endgame sssssuuuccckkeed! Hulk? Ruined? Thanos? Ruined. Thor? Ruined.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u honestly, i thought the valkyrie becoming king thing was bad... but i never actually thought about what you just said, that she's every bit as bad as thor was in the 1st part of endgame, if not worse, but she's qualified to lead & he's not
They gave Thor depression because he failed to protect his people, then used that arc to make him the big Luborsky. As bad as it may seem on the surface, I liked his development because it mirrors my own as I complete college.
@@Jormungrandrserpent or just the other plot threads and character arcs they have to resolve in one movie. I mean it's doable but pretty hard to make a good storyline while resolving multiple character arcs plus setting up future movies for said characters. Buuuttt they still get paid the big bucks presumably.....
That wasn't a "fat and goofy" Thor. That was a Thor suffering from survivors guilt. A once nigh invulnerable warrior god that failed. The very mention of Thanos brought up insecurity into his heart.
The thing that annoys me is, Thor is 1,500 years old and we are expected to believe that he changed this much in just 5 years? 5 years is hardly anything to him, or at least should be.
RIGHT?! Plus this rewrite would introduce us to *WAR THOR* something that sounds like something straight out of a comic. Plus instead of being war hungry due to glory like the first movie he would be overly protective war ready due to fear. It fits nicely.
@@ReasonablySkeptic unfortunately and in the words of The Drinker, Marvel have become more... DIVERSE. So much so, they've shoehorned in Natalie Portman who hasn't appeared in a Marvel movie (properly) for 8 years now, who i assume will now be the star of Thor's franchise. Yay.
I too thought of this argument, but I resigned to the fact that change is based upon experience - and 1500 years of monotony and routine wouldn't lead to as much change as 5 years of truly different circumstance shift.
I also thought that part of why Thor is so strong is his Asgardian biology, and I have a really difficult time reconciling the physiology that creates super fit Thor allowing him to become that out of shape. As though Thor had to be constantly working out to maintain that body (which we never see him do, ever).
Good writers: Characters are people. Bad writers: Characters are props. The reason this is bad is because, well... people aren't props. In order for your story to have any value, it must have relevance to the world, and so the people in your story need to be people. If your characters are merely props, then all your story is good for is distracting people for a while. You could *try* to argue that that's the highest achievement in writing, but I doubt many people in this comments section would take such an idiotic stance.
I blame RPG's, particularly video game RPG's. Any non-player character receives a single defining character trait, if any. Otherwise, the npc info dumps, and is always ready to info dump when prompted.
@@youngthinker1 those writers don't look to me like people who played and understood RPGs (the good ones at least) so I would have to disagree. I think it's simply because what the Drinker said, they don't value the characters' developments as much what they want their stories to be. When you are perfectly fine making characters do whatever as long as it fits what you want the story to be, it becomes extremely easy to further the plot...
@@youngthinker1 I blame Marxism. Specifically, cultural Marxism. Cultural Marxism is an ideology that values adherence to Marxism above all else. Everything and everyone must serve the purpose of advancing Marxism. The reason why this fails in writing is that Marxism is an ideology that is completely detached from reality, ergo it fails the principle that stories must have relevance to the world. Many of the failings in Hollywood films today were common practice in Marxist propaganda for decades. There's been Marxism in Hollywood films for decades, but it was barely noticeable. But as Marxism continues to lose support, its adherents become more and more obsessed with spreading it. As the cultural Marxists in Hollywood become more obsessive and the cultural Marxists pushing for Marxism to play a larger role in these films become more demanding, the Marxism in films becomes more noticeable and everything else begins to take a secondary role. Additionally, the intelligentsia of Marxism have lost control of the masses, meaning that the firm foundation of principles that cultural Marxism was founded upon (for example, that its influence needed to be SUBTLE) are no longer being followed.
The laughs are a defense mechanism that people use when they are uncomfortable and do not know how to handle a problem. Maybe go watch some DC movies if you cannot fathom realistic character development......sometimes that development is not positive.
Hulk or Bruce Banner? Because a scene where Banner, frustrated that Thor isn't willing to help when they need him most, Hulk out for a fight, only to revert back in the middle after realizing how much Thor is hurting, would've been epic. Sadly, Professor Hulk means it could never happen.
@@sweetyeetus We watch Hulk leaping from skyscraper to skyscraper in...how many movies?...but then he must "take the stairs". Now he's clearly pissed. However,instead of 'Being the Hulk(you know,the character he has been forever) and simply 'Jumping'(remember...he is PISSED!) he actually walks down all the stairs,which leads to...well,you know the rest.That was 'Hulk Smash',not Dr Hulk Talk about changing a character to fit the story. As much of a disservice was done to him as to 'Fat Thor'.
@@davebruneau6068 This was my first thought when he started taking the stairs. Why would he? He could literally drop down to the ground and wait there, but I guess the plot needed it to happen to knock out Stark.
@@bingram2011 Professor Hulk would have gotten beat worse than in Infinity War- dude didn't even want to "Smash". I have no interest in seeing a Professor Hulk stand alone film.
@@Zero-Wolf wow I'm not alone at this! I'll never understand why all the popcorn bois hate Norton's hulk, to me it is one of the best movies in MCU - basically because it's more of a drama/thriller than a naive cartoonish comedy for 6 year olds. The inner conflict and outer struggle of Bruce Banner is only natural. The MCU had so much potential of venturing into other genres with that Hulk. Instead we get a big green CGI dude who doesn't do anything useful (in terms of the world's story) up until Thor: Ragnarok, and even there he is a comedic relief and a mcguffin, not a conflicted man having to deal with ANOTHER FUKKEN CONSCIOUSNESS IN HIS HEAD
I'm literally heartbroken at how they dealt with both of them. It felt like an attempt to show that Cap'n Marvel and Scarlett Witch were stronger than them. I definitely wanted World War Hulk to break out when Hulk heard the news of Natasha's sacrifice but what we got was completely disappointing in my opinion.
I can imagine it. Withdrawn, brooding, atop a mountain at dawn bristling with lightning, having flashbacks of his father; "Remember this place, home" - THE source of all their power, earth. Recalling childhood stories around a fire of the heroic and fell deeds of his ancestors, the courage and sacrifice needed to quell dark forces and chaos over the long history of the nine realms. Instead of a bloated wreck he'd be almost overpowered, reluctant to contain his force of energy; "I'm not as strong as you. No you're stronger". And he would be. He'd experience the type of PTSD that found Cap in an empty gym going through heavy bags one by one. He'd rule with absolute authority, wouldn't even recognize the nation states of earth, but sequester his kingdom from them, keeping all the world leaders anxious, and secretly plotting, discussing how to deal with him. He'd use the byfrost to confront powerful beings across the galaxy, crush and destroy them mercilessly, mounting their heads upon his battlements, and storing their weapons in his vaults. This is the Thor banner and rocket would encounter, and they would do so at great risk.
I can imagine the first time they meet him. Bruce and Rocket go to the new asgard, located in the mountains with sets of walls around for protection. The moments before they were shot by watchers, Valkyre on top of the wall doing partols recognizes Hulk. Once they get inside, they realize that the people of Asgard were incredibly affected by their home getting destroyed by Hela and then getting their ship destroyed by Thanos. They're living on egde, not trusting anybody but themselves. Even Valkyre is not an exception, she's wary of Rocket and constantly keeps an eye on him despite him being friends with Bruce. Then they ask where Thor is, and say that they want to talk to him. "He's not here" says Valk, "went on a walk". Just as she finishes, Bifrost bridge opens in the middle of the city. Therein comes out Thor, blood and guts on Stormbreaker, tattered clothes, ice-cold look on his face and the skull of an alien enemy leader he has just slain in his hand. "3rd one this week?" says Valk. "Pest control" says Thor, without an ounce of mercy in his voice.
Anyone else getting The Drinker as an internal monologue? "I was about to make a sensible decision about lunch and not eat fast food, one both financially smart and benifical to my waistline. But my girlfriend was like 'Nah, it'll be fine'. Fuck off life!"
it's funny that you say that, when i worry about stuff (needlessly) i repeat to myself in my mind "nah, it's be fine" in his voice, and it actually helps hehe
Not sure even the brilliant and handsome mind of our dear, beloved Drinker could pull that off. Unless the entire thing is reconceptualized as being about Mar-Vell, rather than the rando who he trained up and passed on his title to after 3-4 decades of heroing and being pivotal in beating Thanos.
Do Carol Danvers as Mrs. Marvel like from the comics. She is one character that was actually funny. She joked and pulled pranks. She drank with Logan and partied with Tony. She was a light hearted person. Also, have her dead right sexy af. Huge tits. Like super model hot. A bombshell. As opposed to Mrs. No Humor or Lips.
Right? Lol, but I wasn't necessarily upset with fat Thor, I just expected to see the movie take the depression more seriously and that was my biggest issue. They could've made fat Thor work, honestly, but they chose to throw in witty lines over anything meaningful. I did like the scene with his mom though, but, I still think that could've been better.
@@chantakzee they have captain marvel. Clearly they don’t care about having characters that could take out thanos. Hell, they had thanos until the idiot punched him. They were seconds away. They didn’t need non fat Thor
Thank you! I found it so weird that out of all the characters in Endgame, Thor was the only one not treated with any dignity. Sure, Thor Ragnarok had a lot of humour, but it still treated Thor with respect. In Endgame, as soon as Thor became "Fat Thor" even the most dramatic moments for Thor had inappropriate humour. It came off as such a sudden and bizarre personality switch that every time the movie cut to him, I felt taken out of it a bit.
Remember in IW when Thor had tears in his eyes when he spoke with Rocket? That's the Thor we should have seen in Endgame. Sad, perhaps isolated. But still with self-respect and self-awareness.
I also found it odd that in IW Rocket actually puts his usual asshole attitude to the side to help a guy he clearly sees needs it. The in EG when he needs help more then ever he's mocking him like everyone else. The fuck Rocket?
I figured he went past that part to acceptance. I didn't think he would just give up his position. However I do know he struggles with the concept of never being worthy. Without his hammer providing that constant confirmation, and his first true test of leadership showing how bad he failed, I could see a psychosis occurring. Thor is a college jock who graduated from an ivy league school who was supposed to inherit his father's business. Then the market crashed and he is bankrupt. What man wouldn't say fuck it for a sec.
@@Agbahizzal I understand, but it would have made more sense to go further than breaking down. Like imagine a Thor completely isolated, like Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi. Angry, sees no one, maybe blames everyone except himself (knowing he is most to blame). Perhaps he developed a distrust to humanity (maybe the refugees were treated like invaders?). That would have been just as powerful as the lame gamer-arc. He would still have broken down at his mother's side, and felt that joy in weilding Mjolnir. Basically, going on all comedic was only one way of exploring depression and a breakdown. And unfortunately it was the more disrespectful way.
you're onto something. and thor lashing out at banner would be a great arc from the first avengers movie where hulk and thor fought because hulk couldn't control his rage. very poetic.
This would be a great callback to that moment, especially considering they’ve switched places. Professor Hulk feels more complete than he ever felt, while Thor felt lost and in despair that he never quite felt before.
@@rimurutempest4945 you missed the point.. prof. H., isn't compleat Hulk, he's emasculated hulk. He doesn't not get mad, he can't get mad. The closest he comes is throwing a bench at Natassha's demise... and crying. I'll take "Hulk Smash! "Any day.
@@Jhh1023 We watch Hulk leaping from skyscraper to skyscraper in...how many movies?...but then he must "take the stairs". Now he's clearly pissed. However,instead of 'Being the Hulk(you know,the character he has been forever) and simply 'Jumping'(remember...he is PISSED!) he actually walks down all the stairs,which leads to...well,you know the rest. Talk about changing a character to fit the story. As much of a disservice was done to him as to 'Fat Thor'. But,hey,it made millions so who gives a fuck
@@rimurutempest4945 And it would echo the switching places that took place between Steve and Tony. Steve sacrifices himself at the end of the First Avenger, but finally carves out some happiness for himself at the end of Endgame. Tony goes from being a self-absorbed prick to ultimately sacrificing his life to protect a family and a future he won’t live to see.
"Hey you know how we've had several movies building up to Thor taking the mantle of responsibility from his father and becoming king?" "Yeah?" "Let's not do that."
@Srithor Men are inherently toxic? Don't stereotype men. I'm toxic. Not to tough women but to stupid logic. I don't have a gf. But if ever get a gf I would really like to have a tough one like a black belt
The actor of Thor wanted fat Thor and kept pushing for Thor to lose everything and to get in a fat suit, Russo's weren't too certain. I'm guessing Chris wants an underdog story, going from fat and fumbling to bulking up in Thor 4. I'm not too invested in the new Thor, he doesn't have any intelligence, compassion or leadership skills but his narrative story was messy from the get go.
You know, thats how movies get made, people pay for them. I like how you are suggesting that paying for a film is a special circumstance. LOL. Im just joshing really, don't take what i said too seriously.
Thor has been comic relief since both Thor: Ragnarok and it works well for him. He was a fairly boring character before that, and it turns out Chris Hemsworth is a great comic actor. What *didn't* work was going "Ohey, Thor has clinical depression, isn't that funny! :D".
@@piotrd.4850 Thor having PTSD was interesting and very appropriate for the character but the execution left a lot to be desired IMO. The portrayal of his PTSD in Endgame consisted mostly of showing him as a fat, comical drunk. I found it pretty uncomfortable they wanted us to enjoy a good laugh at his mental illness and pain.
After learning what the concept is behind “The Drinker Fixes...” series, my instant reaction was to go to the Disney trilogy and try to fix everything.
@@alexshmalex Ivan ortega already did what ever could be done for star wars TLJ. As for a character to improve while still keeping the film as is ...thats really quite tough ( while keeping to the Drinkers guide lines). How about Woody or Buzz from Toy Story 4?
Interesting thought. But... I'd rather do the OPPOSITE of the Drinker's rules for Force Awakens: Fin, Poe, & Rey are descent enough characters, but they tend to be pushed around by the plot a great deal. What if we let THEM drive the plot- and/or, gave them a backstory that actually fit them, rather than the other way around? It's easy to fix Luke in Last Jedi: have him trust Ben too MUCH, not so little he thought about killing him in his sleep. There. Fixed Luke. (Also, make him less of a degenerate! He's Luke Skywalker, after all! C'mon!) Leia & Holdo, in that movie, though... that could be very interesting! A lot to fix there! (Not to mention Poe's reaction to their decisions! & Rose in Canto Bites...!) I... need to see Rise of Skywalker again, to see what's what about that! Luke needs fixing, probably also Palpatine, but... not sure what else!
Yes I agree with PTSD thor. Because this way he would become ruthless against any threats to the earth or his people. I could see thor becoming ruthless just as Odin was revealed to be
@@caffeinatedlizard3593 Yeah that would be quite interesting, i can imagine a scene where he violently lashes out on someone which prompts a moment of realization for him
Drinker, you glorious bastard, you have captured the essence of and (hopefully) recovery of PTSD. This encapsulates how a warrior (military or no) tends to react in the face of traumatic event(s). This would have been realistic and positive.
@@martymcfly88mph35 i don't any got in illegally, so i don't that ruined it... it was obviously just because thor was in charge & not diverse female asgardian
.....And in the end Asgard was destroyed by a woman - which is what happens when women have too much power.....their greed and selfishness overwhelms everything else.
There's a term for what they did to Thor: Character Derailment. Most ,if not all, of the grown and personality of the character is ignored in order to make something happen that by all logic shouldn't. It's bad writing, to put it mildly.
Lee Moffat I guess it's a matter of perspective. Honestly I looked at Fat Thor as a tribute to the die hard comic fans who would be the only ones to know about it. And I also saw it as a sly fuck you to the casual female fans who were only watching to see "sexy Thor" and it gave him depth since we were forced to pay attention to his personality and mind.
@@Emeezyonthetrack To be real, if it's something so obscure that only diehard fans would know about it, chances are, no one on the staff did either. Moreover, it didn't really give him any depth. It was just a bad joke that went on for way too long and made 0 sense for the character. Thor would be more like Hawkeye was than like The Dude.
@@LeoStaley No it can be done, but the entire story needs to change as well as the characters. I have actually thought up a new story for this. The one character that would be gone would be the emperor.
The Marvel writers gelded Thor to give the "Patriarchy" the middle finger and to replace cis white man with stunning and brave bi whamen of color, change my mind.
I will not change your mind, you're absolutely correct. Combine their ideology with their lackluster writing skills and you get a series of strong male characters being turned into jokes simply to make all the female characters they interact with look better. I mean if what Ruin Roundhead Johnson did to Luke Skywalker just to make Rey look better isn't evidence enough, I don't know what is.
Thank you, Drinker. I knew something was off about Thor right from the time he got fat. It didn't fit his character. A person who would give up his entire planet to save his people would NEVER let them rot while being sloshed 24/7. I knew it. And you explained why it seemed that way. I can finally be happy about Thor.
The "resolution" of Thor's arc was the moment where I decided to break up with the MCU. They spent at least five movies setting up that he would slowly learn responsibility and become king of Asgard, only for Schrodinger's Mom to tell him "Nah, it'll be fine, don't be king." That's when the spell was broken and I decided I would no longer go out of my way to see Marvel movies. Because if _they_ aren't going to follow ten years of continuity and character development, why should I?
Agreed .I did the same .Marvel just simply shitted on Thor arc and the fans should accept it ,because it is marvel. Besides the time travel plot hole ,fat Thor was another one I had issues with and it made me not liking Endgame .
Its ok Thor is gonna be in new Guardians movie so there is plenty of hope so dont go turning into a fat Thor on us just yet! Unless they fuck it up then....
This is part of it for me. However It's Captain America's actions in End Game, and the writer/directors braking of their own story rules of time travel that made me say I'm out.
@@deathsdollar2606 In Thor: Love and Thunder, Jane is very likely to completely replace Thor as the new Thor. Don't be surprised if Thor dies or retires in that movie.
So much better than fat Thor. I remember telling my friends about how Thor regressed as a character in a nonsensical way between Infinity War and Endgame. They were telling me how funny it was, and I realized that I hadn’t taken my Tide pod that day, and couldn’t appreciate the nuanced and sophisticated humor he brought to every scene. Bumbling, fat Thor was probably the weakest part of the entire film. That and Bucky Barnes not being the one to inherit the title of Captain America as a way of symbolizing his redemption from his time as the Winter Soldier. You should fix John Snow from GOT. That character was assassinated big time.
Every single major character was assassinated in the final shitshow, sorry, final season. Jamie wouldn't leave, Dany wouldn't go psycho, Jon wouldn't be a simp, Arya would actually be useful, the hound didn't have to die for his shitty redemption, cersei deserved an actual on screen death, varys shouldn't have died for no reason... Drinker should fix the entire goddamned, accursed, half baked, nightmarish, disaster of a finale.
"Mostly out of a misplaced desire to shove in some goofy humor." That's basically what Marvel's going to be post "Ragnarok" I think. I got tonal whiplash from that film. Odin dies, followed by a joke, all of Thor's friends are killed followed by a joke, the entire systematic destruction of Asgardian society, and then their HOME followed by weird kiwi humor. I felt like I was watching "The Breaker Uppers" with a Marvel coat of paint.
After Guardians being beautiful genius insanity, Marvel decided EVERYTHING had to be total comedy. Even the snap became a joke in Far From Home. It’s a mess. I really enjoyed Ragnarok, because it’s really cool, but the influence and the clear money grab of the humor is so obvious.
"I don't want to be king. Hey, why don't you be king? Everyone would accept that." And this, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how long and bloody wars of succession begin.
The only way i can see that whole situation of Valkyrie leading asgard working is if asgard's people learn of revolution from people on earth and decides to try overthrow the monarchy
@@blindeyedblightmain3565 Except completely wrong. But nice try. Odin was the ruler. Loki was the ruler when he was disguised as Odin. In the MCU Odin ruled, or was thought to be ruling. The Valkyries maintained order in his stead.
@@UltraKardas what the fuck are you arguing about. I am talking about 5 years between Endgame and beginning of Infinity war. Thor was drinking like crazy and Valkyre were a de-facto ruler for this time period.
They had to tone down Thor after literally one shotting Thanos with all the stones, so the no-stones Thanos would be a threat. Competent writers would have found a way to intelligently write a way around how strong Thor has gotten, but that's the catch, they have to be competent first.
They also severely toned down the Infinity Gauntlet. In comics Thanos fought Thor and the Thing at the same time without the gems. With even one of the gems he should be able to one shot every one unless they have a gem of their own and even then it's going to be an uphill battle since Thanos is one of the few that can properly use them. With all the gems you're literally God and can do anything. The fight on Titan for example shouldn't have even been a fight cause at this point he has 4 gems and should be able to turn them all into bubbles or something and restrain and torture them until they tell him where the next gem is. Then he just gives up the Gauntlet for no reason even though there's nothing stopping the universe from eventually having the same problem again.
@@benderbendingrodriguez6375 I completely agree. I thought the same thing watching Infinity War, especially the battle between Thanos and Stark. But in an interview, the directors / producers said that: a) Thanos desire was to merely slow down the Avengers (or just get them out of his way); not kill them because Thanos wanted the Snap to decide their fate, fair and unbiased; and b) Thanos just got the stones and he is still learning how to use them. They said that's why Stark could hold off Thanos for a few minutes on Titan and why Thor was able to use his hammer on Thanos even though Thanos just got the last stone.
You made a great point of how easy it is for us to harden in response to trauma. Having the wisdom to see kindness as a strength, not a weakness, in the aftermath of hardship means taking the more disciplined path.
Nathan Jora Because Banner said it was a mix of the two. He learned to control the rage and keep it in check. And in the comics, the Hulk always got stronger the madder (rage) he got.
James Mayfield ... I don’t see how that’s anything less than a power up. He can control the rage. Keep it in check. Ergo : he should also be able to let it free. The only significant difference with before (since he could already keep the rage in check before) is that he can retain his consciousness even in a power upped stage.
Nathan Jora You obviously never read Hulk as a comic book. He didn’t let his rage go in the movie because he was “smart” throughout the entire movie. Ergo: if he lets the rage free, he’ll get “dumber” and he didn’t get “dumber” in the movie. For example, when the Hulk turned to gray Hulk in the comic book, he was smart, but not as powerful as green Hulk.
James Mayfield I indeed never read a hulk comic book... but this is not a comic book. This is a movie. By the way, you didn’t say anything I wasn’t aware of, so... it’s a bit moot either way. Wether or not he let the hulk go free totally (in the movies) doesn’t mean he can’t. If he can but chooses not too in order to keep the benefits of his « hybrid » form, then he is just as powerful as before, if not more (since before he had to be either smart and weak or strong and dumb, now he can be smart and strong or dumb and stronger) it’s just that he contains his potential in order to benefit from the advantages brought about by keeping his rage in check. Tell me where I’m wrong or missing something if I phrase it like that : His least powerful form now is far more powerful than before but just as smart. His most powerful form is just as if not more powerful than before, and just as dumb, if not less. Admittedly he didn’t use his most powerful form, but as far as I know it’s never said nor implied that he can’t use it (in which case I could’ve agreed with you), it’s just that he chooses not to use it. Am I wrong ? (It’s a genuine question by the way ^^ I’m not a comic book fan, nor a big comic book reader, but I like my data to be accurate, even when it’s about thing I have only a passing interest for, so I’d be glad if you could correct any misconception of me on that one 🙂)
Disagree. Thor was clownified, sure. But Hulk's progression into Professor Hulk was a long established comic storyline. He reversed the snap too. Not a pussy at all.
Not really. The teachings of Odin became deeply engraved in Thor, so he would never become belligerent like TCD suggests. Specially when Earth received the whole Asgard in as allies. By the way, the place where New Asgard is stablished is the same in which Odin dies at Ragnarok (he says something like "Asgard could be here"). Also, his version would easilly owns Thanos without the stones and completelly ruins the whole point of weakening Thor for the final fight.
@Kryptoskillet Alternatively they could have made the army of Thanos far more massive in size and Thor would be tasked with suppressing the mobs through AOE attacks while the rest of the Avengers focused down Thanos like a proper field-boss raid. Realistically, Thor falls into an archetype not wholly dissimilar to that of the Death Knights from WoW, who are tanks that typically draw threat by dealing massive AOE damage.
Drinker, I like your revamped version and genuinely wish that you had have written the story line from your perspective instead. The only "real" reason that they made fat Thor, is that they overpowered him in Infinity War and essentially had to nerf him in End Game. In IW, He came to the battle of Wakanda charged and he literally turned the tide of the fight. Once Wakanda and the heroes fighting were safe, he turned his attention to Thanos and despite Thanos having a complete infinity gauntlet, still nearly killed him. It was only Thors' resurfaced arrogance that saved Thanos. Now if you put that Thor in End Game, he wipes the floor with Thanos in the final climactic battle. There is no need for all the other heroes to show up as Thor could have just swooped in and decapitated a vanilla Thanos in seconds. Obviously they could have nerfed him in another way like they did with the Hulk (holding up the ruins of the building) or with Doctor Strange (holding back the lake water), and personally I would have preferred that too as it wouldn't have gone against everything that Thor had thus far became. That's my two cents anyway.
When a drunk guy ranting on the internet is making a major character in a cinematic universe better than they are in what is a landmark film of cinema.
I think the exact same thing every time I watch one of Drinker's vids. What the **** is going on in writers rooms these days that results in so much utter garbage being churned out?
@@mandelbro777 I agree completely, but you'd think they'd find some better writers to push their agenda. It's not just biased, it's straight-up bad writing.
"landmark film"? Well, eeeehhhhhhhhh, no. It's really not. I'm not sure why you would even say what you did. You didn't make a counter argument to any of his points. You called him a drunk and used that to disregard everything he said. Am I right? Did you think the writers treatment and direction for the character of Thor (is this film) was a logical progression? Or Was Thor's storyline another attempt to change the characters that we have grown up with? In order to perpetuate the new agenda of "white man bad" and usher in a new line of strong but female (and somewhat diverse) characters to replace male ones. This male character was poorly written into a degrading (lazy writing) and illogical character arc. One last thought, shouldn't the present queen of Asgard have been the ruler? Was that character too old or was she ruled out because she had taking a submissive role (in today's world) to the past king (a male of all things)? You see? It's the little things that make this film definitively not a "landmark film".
@@leveljoe I think Avengers: Endgame is a landmark film considering it grossed the most money of any film in the history of the entire world lmao 🤣 Also, I ain't gonna bother responding to the fortress of arguements and questions you threw at me; I've got better things to do than to argue with someone on the internet. All I'll say is that it shouldn't be the case that a guy on the internet (drunk or not) is better at writing a famous character than the actual Hollywood writers that made the character in the first place. The like-to-dislike ratio proves that the drinker wrote Thor better than the writers did, but this shouldn't be the case. Edit: spelling
It's funny how Fat Thor is "fatshamed" throughout the movie... Meanwhile, girls are beautiful in all sizes, you go girl! hash tag body positivity! Again with the hypocrisy..
@Subi_fan They have had tons of Black Widow ass shots in the MCU films you dumb fuck. Have you even watched any of these movies? You sound like a sensitive little bitch. Oh boohoo they made a joke about a man having a nice ass in a marvel movie, oh no,how will you ever sleep at night? Whiny bastard
This version of Thor could have introduced us to his Berserk Rage that he’s known for in the comics, thus also expanding on the Asgardian mythos as well
I wanted grumpy old man Thor from the comics, this would have basically been it. He still could have cracked a couple jokes, his old self shining through here and there, to give you hope, but it's so heavily weighed down by his fatalism that he often appears to be operating by contempt. He's not a carbon copy of Odin, not by a long shot, but seeing him embrace harsh practicalities would be engaging to watch, and sad knowing how much of Thor's vibrant self is lost in this scenario.
Marvel: Thor needs to build up to being a great leader. That is his destiny. Through years and years of story time, through 3 solo movies, and 4 Avengers movies this is what we’ve built him up to. Marvel (2019): Thor doesn’t want to be a leader anymore. Fans: why? Marvel (2019): cause there’s a black, gay, woman who deserves it more.
Am I alone in thinking it's rather amusing that he gave her the crown when just in Ragnarok it was Valkyrie who was the drunken loser who'd given up because she failed to stop Hela?
No, good sir, you are not alone. Even if Thor did come the conclusion that he didn’t want to rule.... why Val? She’s an awesome character, and I like the way she was acted. But... Leader? Where? Why? What?
The changes done to Thor in Endgame DO make perfect sense, in terms of the next stage of MCU films, set to fully drop into SJW diversity Hades. The top four male heroes had to change in a way resulting in their being set to the side, to open up the main stage for Captain Marvel and company to lead in the "the future is female" era. Stark is dead, Cap is retired, Thor is goofing off, and Hulk has gone Prof. Simp (as opposed to the raw macho mountain he was prior to End Game).
I despise the fact they stopped Lou Ferrigno from playing Hulk anymore. He was still doing the voice of Hulk and the facial expressions too, what a shame
gosh this video was so good. I can’t express enough how much I enjoy your videos. you go into real depth, there’s not a moment where I feel bored or I feel like there’s just filler in the video. every sentence you say genuinely adds to the video and you just do such a good job. as someone with ADD it’s hard to find a video longer than 30 seconds that keeps my attention but you succeed in encapsulating me for the entirety of the video
That was a pretty amazing way to fix the character while still telling the same story. Especially the reason for leaving Valkyrie in charge. I hated the movie reason. Thor was unworthy because he spent 5 years as a drunk avoiding his responsibilities, so he passed the mantle to a girl who spent 1500 years as a drunk avoiding her responsibilities.
Not only did she run away from her responsibilities, she sold aliens into slavery and eventually execution in the arena. But, they show she's friends with the Hulk, so that makes her a good person!
Marvel has this disease where they dump all the repect and badass development of a character just for a dumb joke. Eg:- Nick fury getting his scars by a cat.
They do. That cat thing is insulting. Any cat that crossed Nick Fury or anyone able to, is getting strangled and vaporised. Beaten into a bloody pulp. You do not laugh off losing a eye! That cats getting put down. You could legally put it down.
When I first watched "Endgame" I felt constantly like the film's timing was off, which is completely uncharacteristic for a Russo brothers movie. Usually I attribute odd visual timing to bad editing. But in this case it was a tonal issue. There was just too much goofiness for something that dealt with half an apocalypse. It's like they were shoehorning in drama AND comedy in some scenes. You're right: among many other things, we should have had an ultra-serious and ultra-focused Thor.
As I first watched it I also felt something was way off, I had constant complaints. The movie turned around for me when they started going back in time, and during the final battle. But leading up to the Battle of New York scene the movie was all over the place and sloppy for a Russo Brothers film. I mean, Winter Soldier and Infinity War are masterpieces. The more I have watched Endgame it has gotten better, and they ended it on a perfect note with Cap. But, whoever decided to go in the direction they went in with Banner and Thor got it completely wrong, and I'm almost surprised it didn't ruin the movie (shocking that Captain Marvel's scenes were actually fine).
@@Name-se3lf I agree with every word that you wrote. "Winter Soldier" is my favorite comic movie ever, and "Infinity War" is a close second. I have a vivid memory of watching "Endgame" during opening day and wondering to myself if anyone else thought that the pacing was bizarre. Then they went to the slow scene of Robert Downey/Stark washing dishes, and someone in my audience sighed heavily. Nope.
@@AnnusMirabilus For sure, I still think Winter Soldier is the best Marvel film, but not only that, it's a straight up amazing political thriller and I love how edgy it is, I think it's one of the only Marvel films that broke their cookie cutter mold and I have no doubt it would not get made the same way with current day Disney's attitude. Infinity War is almost as good and it definitely has the edge in spectacle, it will always have a special place because it was the culmination of everything we were all waiting for since Iron Man. Tbh I'm not really surprised with how Endgame turned out, I had a sneaking suspicion they would never live up to Infinity War, and with how uneven the movie is it makes me think they just didn't have enough story/material left to fill it out, that's why we got so much borderline slapstick/180 character arcs in it. It might have been a whole lot tighter if it was actually cut down
I did. I dare even call Endgame disappointing. I'd go as far as say it's borderline bad. It doesn't cross the border, but it's certainly far closer than it ever should have been.
DaMaster012 This updated Thor character ark, Hulk getting his chance to fight Thanos, and a time war (maybe with Loki from the past or even Thanos himself) to raise the stakes and would’ve made the middle of the movie pace so much better. It dragged too much and nothing was happening. I also believe Thor should’ve snapped instead of Hulk since that would’ve been his redemption for failing to kill Thanos. Also, why the hell didn’t Antman just go through time vortex like what they said in Ant-Man 2? Why did they have a rat to bring him back? That was just lazy writing.
It's funny, I kept thinking this same thought every time I saw his character in endgame: Rather than take a chance to illustrate how trauma and loss and powerlessness turns people into abusers of power, the movie settles for making fat jokes.
In my opinion both the versions discussed could work. Both show two very plausible outcomes that can come from the depression of losing 'nearly' everything you care for. 'either give up entirely or hold tighter to whats left.' The fat jokes failed badly though. that part I didn't agree with. When he learned about the time travel idea he should've been a little more interested/ enthusiastic. I'd think 'A chance to fix my mistakes' would be a good cause for someone with survivors guilt/ depression to rally to.
honestly, it depends on the character... for instance, tony going & not having any of it makes sense because he doesn't want to mess anything up after it's finally going ok for him. i do agree that some characters (hulk/thor) going soft doesn't make any sense though... especially when hawkeye went full on ninja after his family died
Thor has lost everything in the comics before. Instead of becoming a fat coward, he did everything he could to rebuild what he lost, going so far as finding a way to resurrect the other gods. That's what feels more insulting to me about this movie version of Thor: it doesn't measure up to the source material in any shape or form, and it ends up corrupting the source material itself because of Marvel's insistence on making the comics mirror the movies instead of the other way around
Thor and Hawkeye both lost their families and many of their friends. One becomes a tubby joke, while the runs around continuing to save people by eliminating villains. Funny how it's the dude who's not some powerful alien being who decides to make the world a better place and not the guy with the power, people, and technology to do so.
That's because he's a man, and men in the MCU retreat into their holes in times of adversity. Every woman in the MCU is stronger in character, if you'll notice. Widow sacrificed herself, beating Clint to the punch. Valkyrie is now "king", for fuck's sake. Witch beat Thanos single-handedly. And Capt. Marvel is their most powerful hero. MCU is dead.
Am I the only one who remembers that interesting point in Infinity War when Hulk refused to go out and help the Avengers multiple times and we were left wondering what was happening to him ? Because after Endgame no one seemed to remember that. No one seemed to remember that there was something going on with him and the writers completely erased that plot point from existence.
They abandoned Hulk's arc after Ragnarok and basically just did a quick fix on him into an NPC in Endgame. You'll also notice they NEVER came back to the romantic arc he had going with Natasha.
The only good, congruent moment Thor had in _Endgame_ was "I _knew_ it!" when Cap picks up Mjolnir. It shows that Thor has become big-hearted and confident enough to revel in a moment he felt nervous about in _Age of Ultron_ .
Uh what? No. That was one of the most stupid moments in the movie. It also made no sense. Either the hammer doesn't do anything and Thor's power is completely internal, or else the hammer is the thing that has all the power so Ragnarok was wrong. Plus even without the hammer Thor is much stronger than Captain America and is also much more durable. So if Thor can't get the job done then Captain America would be utterly useless. Thor should have be yelling "wtf you think you gonna do against Thanos except get your ass beat?" It's called internal consistency.
Disney: "No male Avenger can be allowed to come anywhere close to being as overpowered as our new mascot...Captain Marvel. Seig Feminismus! Seig Feminismus! Seig Feminismus!" Fans: ... 😦?
I think this whole character arc in Endgame is a great litmus test for how people react to complete failure. Some people never recover, while others see it as a reason to start down a new path. Some characters would fall into "fat" depression, but not Thor. His journey changed him into a person who wouldn't react passively.
Came too late here, but I agree. If they had made their homework and investigated actual depression, they would have found people like Thor never give up entirely forever, but they have episodes when they give up entirely on life for many months intermingled with episodes of total focus (almost to the point of mania) on getting things done.
@Laurence Leiter I disagree. People spend their money on trash with great frequency A lot of current movies are spectacles, and, while they can be mindless fun, they're not particularly edifying. Obviously, "good" is an opinion, in matters of art; however, using money as the primary indicator of an artwork's value, rather than its aesthetic, is a mistake, in My opinion.
@Laurence leiter @steven durham Products that make money are heavily commercialized regardless of them being good or trash. Just look at Joker. Now compare it to venom. Both had remarkable box office returns but i think we can all agree on which movie outperforms the other when it comes to quality. Great Cinematography, smooth editing and sound mixing are enjoyable to watch and the average joe looking for action might not care about story structure and the writing, they just want a distraction, a dopamine filled experience, they don't want to think about existential dilemmas and the human nature, they want to take their minds off of those exact thoughts they have enough problems to solve, but that doesn't mean they're stupid they're quite observant. They know The film isn't squat without a good script. Now perspectives will change that's for sure but you can't rule out genuine masterpieces because of their box office performance it's those modest successes and sometimes flops that stand the test of time.
Sounds like a character that's way too serious for for Hemsworth to stick around. Dude is all about humour these days. I prefer serious Thor with bits if humour, not funny Thor with bits of brevity.
@@funnyfunnyvalentine7991 I agree dude. I liked the Branagh theatrical touch. Not that I don't have crititicisms but I liked that more serious Thor like the comics. Just like I prefer the first Lord of the Rings movie.....had a more epic feel.
to be fair though Thor was getting stale in some regards and hemsworth felt this way. Rag made him and Hulk have comedy but still be fucking badasses. Thor literally had to stop Hulk from taking out Surter and he had good moments with Loki. Plus i admire the use of led zepplin lol.
@@EgyptianSpaceDog maybe epic is the wrong word. Mmm....more...real? Sure, the other movies were bigger because there was more going on but the sense of adventure was greater in the first movie and I connected more with the characters. If I'm not mistaken, the first movie covers more ground geographically than the other two.
Thor is the best character in the MCU when it comes to Character progressing and History, and his story is so filled with loss. He lost everything through the "Infinity Saga", and it is only fitting that he should have gotten better than the "Fat Thor" joke he became at the end. Even though Fat Thor took me a bit by surprise when I saw him, his downfall to drink and despair is understandable, even if they took the concept too far and turned it into a big fat joke. I mean, when you lose everything and everyone you once held dear, and whatever is left doesn't compare, you go 1 of 2 roads; either up in flames of rage, or down in despair, seemingly having nothing left to lose. I also strongly agree with what you said about "Handing Asgard to Valkyrie", who was a drunkard before when we first meet her XD I never understood that part myself, but then again, I never understood much until I started watching your sarcastic criticism ;) Keep it up
The really sad thing is that the dramatic scenes with "depressed Thor" were really highlights to watch. They should've gone harder on the theme of him being broken but making jokes from time to time, instead of a joker with a touch of depression. "Viking Thor" at the end of the movie, was amazing.
Its messed up that they made it funny to see a man down when so many men worldwide commit suicide- Number one biggest of men. Fucking bs society. Clearly because hes a man they not only dont care but they actually laugh and make fun of him. Sick.
@@howisthatgay4275 It was played for laughs, a massively part of it was. It was taking the piss out of him and the intention was for everyone to laugh, which they did in audiences. They also made him funny while depressed in order to make the audience laugh, but thats not how people are when depressed. You even have Rocket raccoon slap him. Could never think of this being done to a girl who is even 1 percent as depressed as Thor was.
I've thought about this before and using a similar method to the drinker where I try to stick close enough to the original plan I think it could be done by tying Palpatine (who I personally would rather not bring back but it is what it is) into it and having it work with return of the jedi rather than diminish it. So I'd have it be that during Jedi happened to survive being disintegrated in the pit he attached his weakened spirit to Luke (who being a relative noob compared to Sheev) has no idea this just happened. After some years go by and Palpatine has had time to regain some of his power by steathily leeching off of Luke and covertly planning his next move while gathering information he makes his move while Luke is meditating with Anakin and the other force ghosts present managing to briefly take control of Luke and seemingly destroy Anakin's spirit with a dark side technique he developed in the years he was hidden ( this is to explain the lack of Anakin force ghost simply coming in and setting kylo straight). It doens't take long before Luke gets back control of his body but the damage has been done and after trying to expel Plapatine realizes that he is too dug in to easily be expelled and enters self-isolation to meditate on a solution in a strong light side location. Circling back to when it looked like sheev managed to destroy Anakin it would be revealed over the sequels that all he did was cause his consciousness to be reborn in the form of Rey (to explain her ridiculous inexplicable powers and competency in things she has no business being good at) with a slight change made so Rey can only use the inexplicable knowledge in highstress situations or at odd times beyond her ability to initiate for the most part making her arc one in which she masters and uncovers her previous self with the end goal being a Spirit/mind battle with Palpatine where in a dramatic moment in the final battle all hope would seem lost only for Anakin (Hayden Christianson) to appear and together they could destroy Palpatine for good by pulling his spirit to the other side of the force and in the process sacrifice all 3/2 of their consciousnesses. The idea is still rough as I don't know in whose body it would take place and what role Luke would play in the final battle but it would be better than what we got.
I never thought about it this way, I always thought it was reasonable he got depressed since he failed and the world got fcked. The only issue I had with Thor in end game was that the writers totally forgot he could open the Bifrost with his new axe
@@endiewarners5203 I could see the Thor we knew from previous movies beginning a quest to seek out time travel/a means of fixing the universe well before the other avengers. He has the Bifrost literally at his disposal and was established even in Infinity War as "I'm still here because fate willed it" he could have spent the last five years on an obsessive quest looking for a way to undo Thanos' damage, rather than just accepting Thanos' "what's done is done" line. Thor doesn't accept defeat so easily. Then suppose when he's introduced in Endgame, it's after 5 exhausting years of chasing anything remotely resembling a lead, only stopping in to New Asgard for occasional supplies (thereby being just as scarce and uninvested) and when Hulk and Rocket find him he's not depressed and fat, but rather just tired and put out. He's searched every corner of the universe and found nothing.
I wouldn't say never... just a generation or so. 20-50yrs down the line there might be another decent one, probably after a few healthy rounds of marvel being bought and sold like the cheap whore it currently is.
I do as well - the problem is he'd be too powerful in End Game. I think the reason they did Fat Thor was because IW Thor was OP, he basically killed Thanos at the end of IW who just got the snap off before he died to undo it. An awakened, angry Thor on his A game with Stormbreaker would be too powerful and would steal the limelight away from Steve and Tony. Kinda like why Vision was incapacitated very early on in IW as he too would have been OP and would have presented issues for Thanos in IW. Vision and Thor both get nerfed to allow the events to take place but I agree they could have come up with something better than Fat Thor, argument there.
Bottom line, Thor represents the masculinity, strength and courage that every young man should aspire to be. He represents the prodigal son, a young man with unlimited potential needing temperance and wisdom to become the great man he is destined to be.He is everything feminist infested DISMARVEL hates, and liberal Hollywood wanted to ruin his legacy before all our eyes.
Yeah, amazing to see a man have to deal with depression and come out the other side. Nobody wants to see that right? Well, nobody that hasn't dealt with their own problems and self worth.
It's no accident that the two most traditionally powerful characters that happened to be male were both shown to be weaker and turned into goofy comic relief while the stoic, hard as nails Captain Marvel was taking down ships by herself and leading the sisterhood....."she's not alone"...(sigh)
I was saddened by how Thor was treated in Endgame. He was my favourite Marvel hero growing up and to see him as a fat waste of skin broke my heart. It tainted the enjoyment I should have felt watching the spectacular conclusion to the Infinity Saga.
I told my eleven-year-old brother to write an essay about this movie (quarantine and he was bored). He had to tell me his favorite parts and his least favorite parts. As well as his favorite characters and least favorite characters. He told me his favorite part was the fight. His least favorite part was how they treated Thor. That it would have been funny if it was just for a few scenes, but that he should have worked it off to be the old Thor. His favorite character is Iron Man and his least favorite character was “Captain Woman” (he forgot her name, but I think that fits pretty well). If an eleven-year-old can understand that better than the actually trained screenwriter, then we have a problem.
@MackLyon same thing happened to my friend's son. His favorite character was Thor and when he saw what they did to him he hated it right away. He left the cinema very disappointed.
Hasif Baharin it wasn’t his source of power, but he needed a conduit to focus and channel his power to harm Thanos, Odin had the Odin force but still used his staff to channel his power so Thor having a weapon to increase his potential makes sense
Lazy Lajdak He needed the new axe to kill Thanos. This was stated in the movie. Thanos is damn near indestructible and whooped Thor in the very beginning of that movie. He could resist his like lightning just like Hela did. Only a weapon like Stormbreaker can penetrate through Thanos skin and it blocked the power of the stones.
Lazy Lajdak what would cause more damage, a normal wave of water that usually hit people on a beach, or the same amount of water hitting someone all at the same time like a wave but through a small pressure hose? Hint: one of these would be lethal
@@revolverswitch yea, I also believe Odin Sacraficed his eye for wisdom. And in the movie Thor definitely ecomes wiser while also losing his eye witch gave it even more significants
I agree with all this and I would love to add that maybe in the 5 years that Thor has lead New Asgard, he hasn't been able to lift his hammer/axe cos he is no longer worthy. So when he meets his mother and finally returns to his former, true self and picks up the hammer again, it would make it all the more poignant.
The introduction of "Fat Thor" was the point in End Game that I checked out. Not just out of the movie, but out of the MCU. And not a moment too soon, apparently.
Yeah, it was fun to see other side of him in Ragnarok, but they took it way too far. To a point where is not funny. It's incoherent he gave away his right to a Valkyrie that doesn't even look like a Valkyrie in the first place.
@@Emy-fv5ny I can get people being mad about it I guess, especially comic die-hards... but I actually had no problem with it. It nerfed him for the end battle (kind of needed) and let you feel for him more deeply as his hero's journey arc revolved around to his realization that even at his worst, he was still worthy. I do like how Drinker changed the 'take' on him, but he did get redemption in the end. If a Thor fan from comics, sure, I would be pissed. But I'm not. And I liked (enough at least) the way they handled him even knowing they nerfed him for laughs. (Truthfully the Drinker version would have been equally as fulfilling though)!
@@kempkennedy5068 They made him the comic relief of the movie when they had plenty of characters who were better at that. Sorry, it is what it is and it's not good to me.
Your pathetic and toxic if don't like one thing that doesn't mean you just lose all hope it's one fucking get over your self your like those star wars fans who cry that the sequels ruined there fandom and act like the original trilogy had absolutely no flaws
@@owendillon3289 Pathetic is not accept that ppl have different opinions and that they don't have to like something just because the rest or the majority do. In the case of the Star Wars fans, when you really love something you will know what it's to be a fan and what it feels to see what you love being destroyed in front of your eyes.
One thing that is understated about Thor's arc is that he did have a unique role in enabling Thanos. Had he not destroyed Asgard and defeated Hela, Thanos might've never gotten the Tesseract and the snap might've never happened. Not only this, but this all happened under Thor's watch-he finally takes the reigns, and everything goes more horribly wrong than it had ever done before. Though it might not have been especially his fault, that doesn't mean Thor might not convince himself that it was. Emphasized correctly, this could be taken to produce the sort of broken version of Thor we saw in Endgame, although I think a more serious take would've been appropriate. Otherwise, however, it isn't entirely unreasonable for Thor to think that his father had been wrong to entrust him with the fate of Asgard, especially if he interpreted events in a particular way. Unfortunately, what I'm describing is an idealized version of what was shown, not the actuality of it, and it's pretty clear that Fat Thor was a decision made primarily for comedy and not to explore the damage these failures did to him mentally.
427Arbok you make a good point...it did happen under his watch...but lest we forget it was hella that caused it all...he destroyed Asgard to prevent her spreading throughout the galaxy as we know she would have...it was his and his peoples sacrifice he should be remembered for. Also he had no idea that thanos was going to benefit or he maybe would have factored it into his actions.
Thank you!! Thor’s story arch culminating with his lost eye, a sign of wisdom in Odin mythology, was perfect. The Thor story line in end game is so against his entire arch it nearly ruins the movie for me
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Please fix SW.
You changed New Asgard into Outer Heaven and Thor into Naked Snake.
I could dig it.
Hey drinker are you gonna do a resident evil 3 remake retrospective
Can you review Twin Peaks (Season 3)
Please fix Daenerys in Game of Thrones!
it’s also been established that alcohol doesn’t affect Thor. in the first movie, he and Selvig stay out all night drinking, to the point where Thor, completely fine, has to carry a hammered Selvig home. then in Ragnarok he downs two massive mugs of beer from Dr Strange. if anything, he should’ve turned to drinking and just been buried by even more frustration that it had no affect on masking his pain
That reminds me in age of Ultron thor keeps a flask of alcohol from asgard to get drunk from
@@Hashbrown1682 exactly, and says to the Stan Lee cameo to be careful, it isnt made for mortals, but Stan tries anyway, and blacks out from just a drop
@@sztallone415 Yes! EXACTLY!! That's what I've been saying! Everyone is so willing to accept that he can just let himself go over 5 years because of his mental state. But it breaks the previously established laws of physics that apply to Thor which you 2 so perfectly laid out.
Miss me with fat Thor
@@XxsteamerxX yes! I try to explain this to people. He's a god. Earth beer doesnt do anything to him. Fat thor is funny but it should have never existed
Cue... his berserk rage
Finally the drinker can use the fact that he's actually a better writer then 90% of Hollywood's screenwriters
agreed.
I started reading his books. He's an outstanding writer.
Feels like the Drinker is clubbing baby seals here.
@@icepicjoey What books?
Yep.
Driven, ruthless, cold-hearted...so he'd become like Odin was before?
Sounds like that would be an interesting and poignant plot point which would make the encounter with his mother even deeper. Huh. Shame.
Yep and his mother would show him that he's become like how odin used to be, and thus setting him on a path to better himself, that he can still improve just as his father did before it's to late
Which do fit in with the Norse mythology
@lopez and we’ve seen people becoming a drunk loser while grieving a million more times. Both are played out tropes it’s just that trope in particular is more in character than what we got with haha funny drunk depressed Thor playing popular Battle Royale game
@lopez Really there wasn’t that much depth at all. His depression is played off as a joke the whole movie and not taken seriously until he talked to his mother and then his depression was instantly cured.
@lopez You’re missing my point. My biggest issue is that his depression was used as a joke by the writers and how quickly it was resolved. In the scenes showing Thors depression it isn’t framed in a way that it’s tragic but rather it’s used for comedy. The audience isn’t supposed to feel sorry for him, they’re meant to laugh at him. Also rather than him working throughout the movie to better himself mentally, it is played off as a joke until he meets his mother and it’s instantly resolved after one conversation.
Tessa Thompson has two settings: Smug and Ultra Smug.
@@MelindaColden how dare you not be attracted to a strong and diverse character!
"I laid low your warriors of old. I instilled terror in the hearts of men. *I am Queen under the Mountain!"*
- "Tessa Thompson: The Definition of Smug"
She's so irritating
Just wait for a her across from Brie Larson with Lilly Singh as comedy relief
@@MelindaColden I'm not alone! Whenever she's on, I have to put my hand up to block her. It's gotten to the point I can't watch anything she's in.
I’m convinced they made fat Thor so that Freya could say “Eat a salad”
One of the writers pooped out a funny joke and they altered an entire character arc to shoehorn it in? That's the best explanation I've heard so far. The writers really are incompetent enough to do that.
Nah they desperately wanted to mention fortnite to engage kids with product placement
*Frigga
Nirawit Karnjanasomwong well it’s Freya now
@@Bijo69 They mention Fortnite forgetting that Thanos snapped 5 years ago. They still playing that in 2023? Lol
"I'm not ready to lead, I became a drunken loser. So I give the crown to you, Valkyrie... who was a drunken loser just a movie ago..."
But she's a black lesbian woman so there's that
Remember. The "pussy pass" is totally a myth...
@@user-gm4kv2my4u
It's all too real.
@King of Knights I was pissed at this. Thor isn't a worthy leader of Asgrad bit the fucking alcholilic, deserting, slaver is?
This is how you can tell Marvel is doomed. My friends and I went to see this movie. We rarely agree on movies. Especially strongly agree. All 3 of us agreed that endgame sssssuuuccckkeed! Hulk? Ruined? Thanos? Ruined. Thor? Ruined.
@@user-gm4kv2my4u honestly, i thought the valkyrie becoming king thing was bad... but i never actually thought about what you just said, that she's every bit as bad as thor was in the 1st part of endgame, if not worse, but she's qualified to lead & he's not
A drunk man wrote a far superior plot than the Disney writers with 7 figure paychecks
They gave Thor depression because he failed to protect his people, then used that arc to make him the big Luborsky. As bad as it may seem on the surface, I liked his development because it mirrors my own as I complete college.
writers where too busy counting their money to do the job!
@@Jormungrandrserpent or just the other plot threads and character arcs they have to resolve in one movie. I mean it's doable but pretty hard to make a good storyline while resolving multiple character arcs plus setting up future movies for said characters. Buuuttt they still get paid the big bucks presumably.....
@Jack Potfees I lost weight while having depression, so nice try twat.
@@KRYMauL I liked it as well. Makes a lot more sense than the proposal in this video.
And good on you for getting through that.
Fat, goofy Thor was one of the things I hated most about End Game. This is how he should’ve been. Great job Drinker.
Disagree 🙂
Agree 1000%, it was the most annoying storyline and probably put in there to entertain the zoomers and children
That wasn't a "fat and goofy" Thor. That was a Thor suffering from survivors guilt. A once nigh invulnerable warrior god that failed. The very mention of Thanos brought up insecurity into his heart.
You know right they need to do this in order to give Captain Marvel “justice”.
Yea but, men have to be emasculated and pathetic.
The thing that annoys me is, Thor is 1,500 years old and we are expected to believe that he changed this much in just 5 years? 5 years is hardly anything to him, or at least should be.
RIGHT?! Plus this rewrite would introduce us to *WAR THOR* something that sounds like something straight out of a comic. Plus instead of being war hungry due to glory like the first movie he would be overly protective war ready due to fear. It fits nicely.
@@ReasonablySkeptic unfortunately and in the words of The Drinker, Marvel have become more... DIVERSE. So much so, they've shoehorned in Natalie Portman who hasn't appeared in a Marvel movie (properly) for 8 years now, who i assume will now be the star of Thor's franchise. Yay.
I too thought of this argument, but I resigned to the fact that change is based upon experience - and 1500 years of monotony and routine wouldn't lead to as much change as 5 years of truly different circumstance shift.
@@Sean-gi5vs Jane Foster was Thor while, Thor proper went onto become Unworthy Thor. This arc is more or less what the MCU is doing.
I also thought that part of why Thor is so strong is his Asgardian biology, and I have a really difficult time reconciling the physiology that creates super fit Thor allowing him to become that out of shape. As though Thor had to be constantly working out to maintain that body (which we never see him do, ever).
Good writers: Characters are people.
Bad writers: Characters are props.
The reason this is bad is because, well... people aren't props. In order for your story to have any value, it must have relevance to the world, and so the people in your story need to be people. If your characters are merely props, then all your story is good for is distracting people for a while. You could *try* to argue that that's the highest achievement in writing, but I doubt many people in this comments section would take such an idiotic stance.
I blame RPG's, particularly video game RPG's.
Any non-player character receives a single defining character trait, if any. Otherwise, the npc info dumps, and is always ready to info dump when prompted.
are you comenting the drinker or criticising him?
+@@youngthinker1 You realize some of the greatest character writing can be found in video game RPGs right?
@@youngthinker1 those writers don't look to me like people who played and understood RPGs (the good ones at least) so I would have to disagree. I think it's simply because what the Drinker said, they don't value the characters' developments as much what they want their stories to be.
When you are perfectly fine making characters do whatever as long as it fits what you want the story to be, it becomes extremely easy to further the plot...
@@youngthinker1 I blame Marxism. Specifically, cultural Marxism. Cultural Marxism is an ideology that values adherence to Marxism above all else. Everything and everyone must serve the purpose of advancing Marxism. The reason why this fails in writing is that Marxism is an ideology that is completely detached from reality, ergo it fails the principle that stories must have relevance to the world.
Many of the failings in Hollywood films today were common practice in Marxist propaganda for decades. There's been Marxism in Hollywood films for decades, but it was barely noticeable. But as Marxism continues to lose support, its adherents become more and more obsessed with spreading it. As the cultural Marxists in Hollywood become more obsessive and the cultural Marxists pushing for Marxism to play a larger role in these films become more demanding, the Marxism in films becomes more noticeable and everything else begins to take a secondary role. Additionally, the intelligentsia of Marxism have lost control of the masses, meaning that the firm foundation of principles that cultural Marxism was founded upon (for example, that its influence needed to be SUBTLE) are no longer being followed.
Man being depressed & getting fat: played for laughs.
Woman being depressed & getting fat: "you're beautiful no matter what! Go slay warrior queen!"
Time to make fun of fat whamen then
Equality Time it is
@Iknowmyusernamesucks they do but now fat pride is worse
YAS QUEEN!!
Thing is, even "fat" women can be sexy. It depends on how you carry the fat.
The laughs are a defense mechanism that people use when they are uncomfortable and do not know how to handle a problem. Maybe go watch some DC movies if you cannot fathom realistic character development......sometimes that development is not positive.
9:33 Having The Hulk have to calm down Thor, because he's not angry enough to fight his friend, would have been a great moment.
Hulk or Bruce Banner? Because a scene where Banner, frustrated that Thor isn't willing to help when they need him most, Hulk out for a fight, only to revert back in the middle after realizing how much Thor is hurting, would've been epic. Sadly, Professor Hulk means it could never happen.
@@sweetyeetus We watch Hulk leaping from skyscraper to skyscraper in...how many movies?...but then he must "take the stairs". Now he's clearly pissed. However,instead of 'Being the Hulk(you know,the character he has been forever) and simply 'Jumping'(remember...he is PISSED!) he actually walks down all the stairs,which leads to...well,you know the rest.That was 'Hulk Smash',not Dr Hulk
Talk about changing a character to fit the story. As much of a disservice was done to him as to 'Fat Thor'.
@@sweetyeetus I mean...nah,it'll be fine
@@davebruneau6068 This was my first thought when he started taking the stairs. Why would he? He could literally drop down to the ground and wait there, but I guess the plot needed it to happen to knock out Stark.
@@davebruneau6068 hulks been shit on from the beginning in the mcu, one of my major issues with it
They nerfed Thor and Hulk so Captain Marvel can be the "Mightiest Avenger".
Well duh, she's so stunning and brave.
Scarlett Witch is supposed to be the most powerful Avenger anyway, but they super nerfed her.
I was looking forward to seeing Thanos and Professor Hulk.... That was the only disappointment for me
@@bingram2011 Professor Hulk would have gotten beat worse than in Infinity War- dude didn't even want to "Smash". I have no interest in seeing a Professor Hulk stand alone film.
Don"t forget they pussy whipped CA and killed off Ironman.
Future “The Drinker Fixes” episode ideas:
- Jamie Lannister
- Hulk
- DCEU Superman
- Luke Skywalker
- James Bond
Fixing Jake Skywalker is a tall order even for one as eloquent as drinker.
@@davidcarey1423 I'd like to add that the destruction of Luke was near complete. Sadly.
- Dr Who (closes browser, runs and hides)
Whats wrong with Bond? (Not counting the new movie that no one has seen yet)
I pray to god he won't HAVE to do one for Jurassic World III, with the original three leads returning...
They emasculated the two most powerful men, Hulk and Thor.
Avengers endgame was a bad fan service...nowhere near infinity war...but these fanboys will never admit it
@@Zero-Wolf wow I'm not alone at this! I'll never understand why all the popcorn bois hate Norton's hulk, to me it is one of the best movies in MCU - basically because it's more of a drama/thriller than a naive cartoonish comedy for 6 year olds. The inner conflict and outer struggle of Bruce Banner is only natural. The MCU had so much potential of venturing into other genres with that Hulk. Instead we get a big green CGI dude who doesn't do anything useful (in terms of the world's story) up until Thor: Ragnarok, and even there he is a comedic relief and a mcguffin, not a conflicted man having to deal with ANOTHER FUKKEN CONSCIOUSNESS IN HIS HEAD
I'm literally heartbroken at how they dealt with both of them. It felt like an attempt to show that Cap'n Marvel and Scarlett Witch were stronger than them. I definitely wanted World War Hulk to break out when Hulk heard the news of Natasha's sacrifice but what we got was completely disappointing in my opinion.
@The Nerd Dungeon I so completely agree. He was absolutely annoying.
@@siddarthkailash4631 an out-of-control Hulk rampage would have been epic.
I can imagine it.
Withdrawn, brooding, atop a mountain at dawn bristling with lightning, having flashbacks of his father; "Remember this place, home" - THE source of all their power, earth.
Recalling childhood stories around a fire of the heroic and fell deeds of his ancestors, the courage and sacrifice needed to quell dark forces and chaos over the long history of the nine realms.
Instead of a bloated wreck he'd be almost overpowered, reluctant to contain his force of energy;
"I'm not as strong as you. No you're stronger". And he would be.
He'd experience the type of PTSD that found Cap in an empty gym going through heavy bags one by one.
He'd rule with absolute authority, wouldn't even recognize the nation states of earth, but sequester his kingdom from them, keeping all the world leaders anxious, and secretly plotting, discussing how to deal with him.
He'd use the byfrost to confront powerful beings across the galaxy, crush and destroy them mercilessly, mounting their heads upon his battlements, and storing their weapons in his vaults.
This is the Thor banner and rocket would encounter, and they would do so at great risk.
I honestly really like this
@@rellepainite thanks
I can imagine the first time they meet him. Bruce and Rocket go to the new asgard, located in the mountains with sets of walls around for protection. The moments before they were shot by watchers, Valkyre on top of the wall doing partols recognizes Hulk.
Once they get inside, they realize that the people of Asgard were incredibly affected by their home getting destroyed by Hela and then getting their ship destroyed by Thanos. They're living on egde, not trusting anybody but themselves. Even Valkyre is not an exception, she's wary of Rocket and constantly keeps an eye on him despite him being friends with Bruce.
Then they ask where Thor is, and say that they want to talk to him. "He's not here" says Valk, "went on a walk". Just as she finishes, Bifrost bridge opens in the middle of the city. Therein comes out Thor, blood and guts on Stormbreaker, tattered clothes, ice-cold look on his face and the skull of an alien enemy leader he has just slain in his hand. "3rd one this week?" says Valk. "Pest control" says Thor, without an ounce of mercy in his voice.
@@HyakuJuu01300
Grim, remorseless, fell.
But worthy.
I like where this is going.
fell (n.1)
"rocky hill," c. 1300, from Old Norse fiall "mountain".
Anyone else getting The Drinker as an internal monologue?
"I was about to make a sensible decision about lunch and not eat fast food, one both financially smart and benifical to my waistline. But my girlfriend was like 'Nah, it'll be fine'. Fuck off life!"
My internal monologue starts with The Drinker but ends up as Father Jack. Different Celtic folks, I know but it'll be foine.
@KNU: Kaiju Nerd United Well, that's all I had today. Go away now.
it's funny that you say that, when i worry about stuff (needlessly) i repeat to myself in my mind "nah, it's be fine" in his voice, and it actually helps hehe
The Drinker's voice usually pops in my head when I start questioning something.
Pa Haha
Yes our new work catchphrase is
"Doont care!'
Here’s a challenge Drinker: fix captain Marvel.
Not sure even the brilliant and handsome mind of our dear, beloved Drinker could pull that off.
Unless the entire thing is reconceptualized as being about Mar-Vell, rather than the rando who he trained up and passed on his title to after 3-4 decades of heroing and being pivotal in beating Thanos.
Don’t bother trying, just delete her from the movies, she added nothing to the mcu, no character build up, no point in her at all.
This one is easy..just make her less powerful and every problem with her has been fixed
This one is easy..just make her less powerful and every problem with her has been fixed
Do Carol Danvers as Mrs. Marvel like from the comics. She is one character that was actually funny. She joked and pulled pranks. She drank with Logan and partied with Tony. She was a light hearted person. Also, have her dead right sexy af. Huge tits. Like super model hot. A bombshell.
As opposed to Mrs. No Humor or Lips.
I didn't hate fat Thor originally, but after listening to this, I'm disappointed in missing out on what we could have had
Right? Lol, but I wasn't necessarily upset with fat Thor, I just expected to see the movie take the depression more seriously and that was my biggest issue. They could've made fat Thor work, honestly, but they chose to throw in witty lines over anything meaningful. I did like the scene with his mom though, but, I still think that could've been better.
I mean if Thor didn’t become fat Thanos would get defeat easily
@@Lehsah2021 they could have come up with something
@@bubblehead4270 My rationale for Fat Thor instead of a driven Thor is that it would make taking out Thanos too easy for the final beat down.
@@chantakzee they have captain marvel. Clearly they don’t care about having characters that could take out thanos. Hell, they had thanos until the idiot punched him. They were seconds away. They didn’t need non fat Thor
Thank you! I found it so weird that out of all the characters in Endgame, Thor was the only one not treated with any dignity. Sure, Thor Ragnarok had a lot of humour, but it still treated Thor with respect. In Endgame, as soon as Thor became "Fat Thor" even the most dramatic moments for Thor had inappropriate humour. It came off as such a sudden and bizarre personality switch that every time the movie cut to him, I felt taken out of it a bit.
I mean, mostly i agree he was treated with respect, but he was beaten by tessa thompson a bit.
Remember in IW when Thor had tears in his eyes when he spoke with Rocket?
That's the Thor we should have seen in Endgame. Sad, perhaps isolated. But still with self-respect and self-awareness.
I also found it odd that in IW Rocket actually puts his usual asshole attitude to the side to help a guy he clearly sees needs it.
The in EG when he needs help more then ever he's mocking him like everyone else.
The fuck Rocket?
My favorite scene in any marvel movie.
This x 9000
I figured he went past that part to acceptance. I didn't think he would just give up his position. However I do know he struggles with the concept of never being worthy. Without his hammer providing that constant confirmation, and his first true test of leadership showing how bad he failed, I could see a psychosis occurring. Thor is a college jock who graduated from an ivy league school who was supposed to inherit his father's business. Then the market crashed and he is bankrupt. What man wouldn't say fuck it for a sec.
@@Agbahizzal I understand, but it would have made more sense to go further than breaking down. Like imagine a Thor completely isolated, like Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi. Angry, sees no one, maybe blames everyone except himself (knowing he is most to blame). Perhaps he developed a distrust to humanity (maybe the refugees were treated like invaders?). That would have been just as powerful as the lame gamer-arc. He would still have broken down at his mother's side, and felt that joy in weilding Mjolnir.
Basically, going on all comedic was only one way of exploring depression and a breakdown. And unfortunately it was the more disrespectful way.
you're onto something. and thor lashing out at banner would be a great arc from the first avengers movie where hulk and thor fought because hulk couldn't control his rage. very poetic.
This would be a great callback to that moment, especially considering they’ve switched places. Professor Hulk feels more complete than he ever felt, while Thor felt lost and in despair that he never quite felt before.
@@rimurutempest4945 you missed the point.. prof. H., isn't compleat Hulk, he's emasculated hulk. He doesn't not get mad, he can't get mad. The closest he comes is throwing a bench at Natassha's demise... and crying. I'll take "Hulk Smash! "Any day.
@@Jhh1023 We watch Hulk leaping from skyscraper to skyscraper in...how many movies?...but then he must "take the stairs". Now he's clearly pissed. However,instead of 'Being the Hulk(you know,the character he has been forever) and simply 'Jumping'(remember...he is PISSED!) he actually walks down all the stairs,which leads to...well,you know the rest.
Talk about changing a character to fit the story. As much of a disservice was done to him as to 'Fat Thor'. But,hey,it made millions so who gives a fuck
@@Jhh1023 I mean...nah,it'll be fine
@@rimurutempest4945 And it would echo the switching places that took place between Steve and Tony. Steve sacrifices himself at the end of the First Avenger, but finally carves out some happiness for himself at the end of Endgame. Tony goes from being a self-absorbed prick to ultimately sacrificing his life to protect a family and a future he won’t live to see.
"Hey you know how we've had several movies building up to Thor taking the mantle of responsibility from his father and becoming king?"
"Yeah?"
"Let's not do that."
LeT's bE dIvErSe.
Insert black panther we dont do that here meme
@Srithor Men are inherently toxic? Don't stereotype men. I'm toxic. Not to tough women but to stupid logic. I don't have a gf. But if ever get a gf I would really like to have a tough one like a black belt
Let’s just stop humiliating strong male characters just because they hold a Y-chromosome
That's a big thing to ask these days.
The actor of Thor wanted fat Thor and kept pushing for Thor to lose everything and to get in a fat suit, Russo's weren't too certain. I'm guessing Chris wants an underdog story, going from fat and fumbling to bulking up in Thor 4. I'm not too invested in the new Thor, he doesn't have any intelligence, compassion or leadership skills but his narrative story was messy from the get go.
About 30 more years for a full turn around. It's going to be unpleasant watching white women become the 50 year target..
Nah it'll be fine
@@chaoticneutralsheep ahh this aged like a very fine milk didn;t it - given how incredibly dumb thor 4 turned out to be
I'd like to see a film written and/or directed by The Drinker. Hell, I'd even pay.
I'd throw my money at him 2 see it! I'd have an inflatable llama and a wine glass in hand at d cinema
@@ernestomiloli8414 🤣
@@omniscienteye8880 you can read nine books he wrote
I’d act in it! I trust him to make a good plot and parts that are actually worth playing.
You know, thats how movies get made, people pay for them. I like how you are suggesting that paying for a film is a special circumstance. LOL. Im just joshing really, don't take what i said too seriously.
We didn't need Thor to be comic relief. We already had Rocket; that's basically his job.
Thor has been comic relief since both Thor: Ragnarok and it works well for him. He was a fairly boring character before that, and it turns out Chris Hemsworth is a great comic actor. What *didn't* work was going "Ohey, Thor has clinical depression, isn't that funny! :D".
@@irrevenant3 actually, Thor's PTSD was something I liked.
@@piotrd.4850 Thor having PTSD was interesting and very appropriate for the character but the execution left a lot to be desired IMO. The portrayal of his PTSD in Endgame consisted mostly of showing him as a fat, comical drunk. I found it pretty uncomfortable they wanted us to enjoy a good laugh at his mental illness and pain.
After learning what the concept is behind “The Drinker Fixes...” series, my instant reaction was to go to the Disney trilogy and try to fix everything.
That would be breaking the Drinker's rules for the series and at this point, I don't believe Disney deserves his time!
@@alexshmalex Ivan ortega already did what ever could be done for star wars TLJ.
As for a character to improve while still keeping the film as is ...thats really quite tough ( while keeping to the Drinkers guide lines). How about Woody or Buzz from Toy Story 4?
@@raweggs6540 LOL. Sure, why not. Also thanks for the recommendation on Ivan Ortega - I'll take a look at his work.
Interesting thought. But...
I'd rather do the OPPOSITE of the Drinker's rules for Force Awakens: Fin, Poe, & Rey are descent enough characters, but they tend to be pushed around by the plot a great deal. What if we let THEM drive the plot- and/or, gave them a backstory that actually fit them, rather than the other way around?
It's easy to fix Luke in Last Jedi: have him trust Ben too MUCH, not so little he thought about killing him in his sleep. There. Fixed Luke. (Also, make him less of a degenerate! He's Luke Skywalker, after all! C'mon!)
Leia & Holdo, in that movie, though... that could be very interesting! A lot to fix there! (Not to mention Poe's reaction to their decisions! & Rose in Canto Bites...!)
I... need to see Rise of Skywalker again, to see what's what about that! Luke needs fixing, probably also Palpatine, but... not sure what else!
The problem with The Critical Drinker is that he's not woke enough for Hollywood, which is exactly why I like him!
The Drinker also knows much more than he lets on. Occasionally I see the glimpses of genius insight into our mad world.
"or is there another character you'd like to see me fix?"
All of the everything for the past 10 years, please.
Nah John Wick is fine right where he is.
@@adampeel6161 He could fix John Wick 3, at least. Strange to say it, but 3 is too much fighting.
Let's make it the last 20 years just to be safe and get it done!
Especially circa 2016. Because woke nonsense created a massive dung heap.
@@skyesfury8511 Nothing wrong with his character though. I agree JW3 was the worst one.
Drinker: Your version is about a billion times better.
They could make a more PTSD Thor instead of a big Lebowski Thor
Like what they did with Tony in Iron-Man 3. I think that may have been the writers intentions at first but it went horribly wrong at some point.
Or what they did with Hulk
Yes I agree with PTSD thor. Because this way he would become ruthless against any threats to the earth or his people. I could see thor becoming ruthless just as Odin was revealed to be
@@caffeinatedlizard3593 Yeah that would be quite interesting, i can imagine a scene where he violently lashes out on someone which prompts a moment of realization for him
They did give him PTSD, but they went about it by giving him depression. I liked it though.
Drinker, you glorious bastard, you have captured the essence of and (hopefully) recovery of PTSD. This encapsulates how a warrior (military or no) tends to react in the face of traumatic event(s). This would have been realistic and positive.
"(military or no)" ¿?
Your take on Thor is more in line with the comics, where he has an "Asgard first" attitude.
This is extremely racist. Impeach Thor now
I can’t understand how Asgard was destroyed as it was a Multiracial Utopia. I thought that was unbeatable
Because it was lead by straight white males.
@@WideAwakeViking they let minorities in and it ruined the place... what do ya know
@@martymcfly88mph35 i don't any got in illegally, so i don't that ruined it... it was obviously just because thor was in charge & not diverse female asgardian
@@WideAwakeViking this!
.....And in the end Asgard was destroyed by a woman - which is what happens when women have too much power.....their greed and selfishness overwhelms everything else.
There's a term for what they did to Thor: Character Derailment. Most ,if not all, of the grown and personality of the character is ignored in order to make something happen that by all logic shouldn't. It's bad writing, to put it mildly.
Star wars suffer from it a lot (and Especially the Last Jedi)
Luke Fin Poe just from the top of my Head
I don't get why people have a problem with fat Thor. It was taken directly from the comics...Yes Fat Thor existed in the comics.
@@Emeezyonthetrack There's plenty of other stupid stuff from the comics they left there for good reasons, the same applies here.
Lee Moffat I guess it's a matter of perspective. Honestly I looked at Fat Thor as a tribute to the die hard comic fans who would be the only ones to know about it. And I also saw it as a sly fuck you to the casual female fans who were only watching to see "sexy Thor" and it gave him depth since we were forced to pay attention to his personality and mind.
@@Emeezyonthetrack To be real, if it's something so obscure that only diehard fans would know about it, chances are, no one on the staff did either.
Moreover, it didn't really give him any depth. It was just a bad joke that went on for way too long and made 0 sense for the character. Thor would be more like Hawkeye was than like The Dude.
I don't understand how they can write Thor so well in Infinity War but then fuck it up so bad in Endgame.
It's fairly realistic for what depression does to people.
@@VecheslavNovikov for a human, not a god that has lived for 1500 years
Drinker: "Or is there another character that you'd like me to fix?"
*Cough cough THE ENTIRE CAST OF THE NEW STAR WARS TRILOGY *Cough cough
No, that's unfixable
Entire cast? How about we start with one, and have a small series of the most important roles.
throw the new trilogy out the fucking air lock into the middle of space and forget it ever existed.
The new trilogy should be de-canonized
@@LeoStaley No it can be done, but the entire story needs to change as well as the characters. I have actually thought up a new story for this. The one character that would be gone would be the emperor.
The Marvel writers gelded Thor to give the "Patriarchy" the middle finger and to replace cis white man with stunning and brave bi whamen of color, change my mind.
Next Thor movie has Natalie Portman taking on the role of God of Thunder. Not even kidding.
I will not change your mind, you're absolutely correct. Combine their ideology with their lackluster writing skills and you get a series of strong male characters being turned into jokes simply to make all the female characters they interact with look better. I mean if what Ruin Roundhead Johnson did to Luke Skywalker just to make Rey look better isn't evidence enough, I don't know what is.
I don’t understood why no one mentions that the Valkyrie is essentially a villain. What are her redeeming qualities supposed to be again?
Noplayster she’s hot🤤
M. Black If only she didn’t speak eh? Or do anything...
Seems like the one character that really could be excused for falling apart after "the snap" is Hawkeye. And we all know how he reacted. Like a boss.
Payload4367 Hawkeye: Oh my god! My family’s gone. The Japanese must pay.
That's the problem with The Drinker's Fix, actually. It sends Thor on the exact same redemption arc as Hawkeye in the same movie.
Thank you, Drinker.
I knew something was off about Thor right from the time he got fat. It didn't fit his character. A person who would give up his entire planet to save his people would NEVER let them rot while being sloshed 24/7. I knew it.
And you explained why it seemed that way. I can finally be happy about Thor.
Joe Public: "Thor was a fat bumbling fool. It can't get worse then this!"
Marvel: "Oh baby, you ain't seen nothing yet!|
Wait until the make Thor a simp non binary cross dresser...
Until I read the video title, I honestly thought the thumbnail was "The Dude" Lebowski.
oh don't worry thor 4 he loses his hammer to jane foster. Disney isn't done raping him yet lol
Snowflake and Safespace have entered the chat....and blocked and reported everyone to Screentime.
Do I really want to see what Marvl has anymore with its freakin Woke empire😤
The "resolution" of Thor's arc was the moment where I decided to break up with the MCU.
They spent at least five movies setting up that he would slowly learn responsibility and become king of Asgard, only for Schrodinger's Mom to tell him "Nah, it'll be fine, don't be king." That's when the spell was broken and I decided I would no longer go out of my way to see Marvel movies. Because if _they_ aren't going to follow ten years of continuity and character development, why should I?
Agreed .I did the same .Marvel just simply shitted on Thor arc and the fans should accept it ,because it is marvel. Besides the time travel plot hole ,fat Thor was another one I had issues with and it made me not liking Endgame .
Did you not see Thor The Dark World? That's when he decided that he didn't want to be king.
Its ok Thor is gonna be in new Guardians movie so there is plenty of hope so dont go turning into a fat Thor on us just yet! Unless they fuck it up then....
This is part of it for me. However It's Captain America's actions in End Game, and the writer/directors braking of their own story rules of time travel that made me say I'm out.
@@deathsdollar2606 In Thor: Love and Thunder, Jane is very likely to completely replace Thor as the new Thor. Don't be surprised if Thor dies or retires in that movie.
So much better than fat Thor. I remember telling my friends about how Thor regressed as a character in a nonsensical way between Infinity War and Endgame. They were telling me how funny it was, and I realized that I hadn’t taken my Tide pod that day, and couldn’t appreciate the nuanced and sophisticated humor he brought to every scene. Bumbling, fat Thor was probably the weakest part of the entire film. That and Bucky Barnes not being the one to inherit the title of Captain America as a way of symbolizing his redemption from his time as the Winter Soldier.
You should fix John Snow from GOT. That character was assassinated big time.
I agree with everything in this comment.
@@thibaldus3 Laughs in night king......the biggest victim of writing in last decade
*Jaime Lannister's sad noises under the rubbles of King's Landing.
Ridwan A
That would also be a good one to fix. Pretty much every character in GOT could have a video to fix them.
Every single major character was assassinated in the final shitshow, sorry, final season.
Jamie wouldn't leave, Dany wouldn't go psycho, Jon wouldn't be a simp, Arya would actually be useful, the hound didn't have to die for his shitty redemption, cersei deserved an actual on screen death, varys shouldn't have died for no reason...
Drinker should fix the entire goddamned, accursed, half baked, nightmarish, disaster of a finale.
thor handing off responsibility feels a lot like Simba running away.
"Mostly out of a misplaced desire to shove in some goofy humor." That's basically what Marvel's going to be post "Ragnarok" I think. I got tonal whiplash from that film. Odin dies, followed by a joke, all of Thor's friends are killed followed by a joke, the entire systematic destruction of Asgardian society, and then their HOME followed by weird kiwi humor. I felt like I was watching "The Breaker Uppers" with a Marvel coat of paint.
Completely broken movie.
After Guardians being beautiful genius insanity, Marvel decided EVERYTHING had to be total comedy. Even the snap became a joke in Far From Home. It’s a mess. I really enjoyed Ragnarok, because it’s really cool, but the influence and the clear money grab of the humor is so obvious.
"I don't want to be king. Hey, why don't you be king? Everyone would accept that."
And this, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how long and bloody wars of succession begin.
The only way i can see that whole situation of Valkyrie leading asgard working is if asgard's people learn of revolution from people on earth and decides to try overthrow the monarchy
Except Valkyir were ruling Asgard for about 5 years without a single hitch and most of the asgardians haven't seen Thor since the end of a Ragnarok.
@@blindeyedblightmain3565 Except completely wrong. But nice try.
Odin was the ruler. Loki was the ruler when he was disguised as Odin. In the MCU Odin ruled, or was thought to be ruling. The Valkyries maintained order in his stead.
@@UltraKardas what the fuck are you arguing about. I am talking about 5 years between Endgame and beginning of Infinity war. Thor was drinking like crazy and Valkyre were a de-facto ruler for this time period.
King Lear tried it. Didn't work out so well.
They had to tone down Thor after literally one shotting Thanos with all the stones, so the no-stones Thanos would be a threat.
Competent writers would have found a way to intelligently write a way around how strong Thor has gotten, but that's the catch, they have to be competent first.
They also severely toned down the Infinity Gauntlet. In comics Thanos fought Thor and the Thing at the same time without the gems.
With even one of the gems he should be able to one shot every one unless they have a gem of their own and even then it's going to be an uphill battle since Thanos is one of the few that can properly use them.
With all the gems you're literally God and can do anything.
The fight on Titan for example shouldn't have even been a fight cause at this point he has 4 gems and should be able to turn them all into bubbles or something and restrain and torture them until they tell him where the next gem is.
Then he just gives up the Gauntlet for no reason even though there's nothing stopping the universe from eventually having the same problem again.
@@benderbendingrodriguez6375 I completely agree. I thought the same thing watching Infinity War, especially the battle between Thanos and Stark. But in an interview, the directors / producers said that: a) Thanos desire was to merely slow down the Avengers (or just get them out of his way); not kill them because Thanos wanted the Snap to decide their fate, fair and unbiased; and b) Thanos just got the stones and he is still learning how to use them. They said that's why Stark could hold off Thanos for a few minutes on Titan and why Thor was able to use his hammer on Thanos even though Thanos just got the last stone.
He is a GOD. That’s all the explanation you need.
You made a great point of how easy it is for us to harden in response to trauma. Having the wisdom to see kindness as a strength, not a weakness, in the aftermath of hardship means taking the more disciplined path.
They “depowered” Thor (and Hulk) to make CPT Marvel seem stronger.
James Mayfield Wait, how is Holk less powerful than before ?
Brain+brawl seems more powerful to me than brain or brawl.
Nathan Jora Because Banner said it was a mix of the two. He learned to control the rage and keep it in check. And in the comics, the Hulk always got stronger the madder (rage) he got.
James Mayfield ... I don’t see how that’s anything less than a power up.
He can control the rage.
Keep it in check.
Ergo : he should also be able to let it free.
The only significant difference with before (since he could already keep the rage in check before) is that he can retain his consciousness even in a power upped stage.
Nathan Jora You obviously never read Hulk as a comic book. He didn’t let his rage go in the movie because he was “smart” throughout the entire movie. Ergo: if he lets the rage free, he’ll get “dumber” and he didn’t get “dumber” in the movie. For example, when the Hulk turned to gray Hulk in the comic book, he was smart, but not as powerful as green Hulk.
James Mayfield I indeed never read a hulk comic book... but this is not a comic book.
This is a movie.
By the way, you didn’t say anything I wasn’t aware of, so... it’s a bit moot either way.
Wether or not he let the hulk go free totally (in the movies) doesn’t mean he can’t. If he can but chooses not too in order to keep the benefits of his « hybrid » form, then he is just as powerful as before, if not more (since before he had to be either smart and weak or strong and dumb, now he can be smart and strong or dumb and stronger) it’s just that he contains his potential in order to benefit from the advantages brought about by keeping his rage in check.
Tell me where I’m wrong or missing something if I phrase it like that :
His least powerful form now is far more powerful than before but just as smart.
His most powerful form is just as if not more powerful than before, and just as dumb, if not less.
Admittedly he didn’t use his most powerful form, but as far as I know it’s never said nor implied that he can’t use it (in which case I could’ve agreed with you), it’s just that he chooses not to use it.
Am I wrong ? (It’s a genuine question by the way ^^ I’m not a comic book fan, nor a big comic book reader, but I like my data to be accurate, even when it’s about thing I have only a passing interest for, so I’d be glad if you could correct any misconception of me on that one 🙂)
Thor and the Hulk were pussified in End Game.
partly to leave miss marvel some space to shine
I was upset that Hulk never get a rematch against Thanos
Mark Rufalo IS a pussy in real life.
Disagree. Thor was clownified, sure. But Hulk's progression into Professor Hulk was a long established comic storyline. He reversed the snap too. Not a pussy at all.
Banner is a pussy because he taugh himself to be a pussy to keep Hulk at bay.
Besides Hulk gives a taco to Ant man.
I see this a s an absolute win
This is vastly superior to the version of Thor we got in Endgame.
The only issue I can foresee is that the ending fight with Thanos would've been too easy. Prime Thor would've been too strong lol
I agree
Not really. The teachings of Odin became deeply engraved in Thor, so he would never become belligerent like TCD suggests. Specially when Earth received the whole Asgard in as allies. By the way, the place where New Asgard is stablished is the same in which Odin dies at Ragnarok (he says something like "Asgard could be here"). Also, his version would easilly owns Thanos without the stones and completelly ruins the whole point of weakening Thor for the final fight.
@@hilmanic28 maybe his rage would have given thanos the edge?
@Kryptoskillet Alternatively they could have made the army of Thanos far more massive in size and Thor would be tasked with suppressing the mobs through AOE attacks while the rest of the Avengers focused down Thanos like a proper field-boss raid. Realistically, Thor falls into an archetype not wholly dissimilar to that of the Death Knights from WoW, who are tanks that typically draw threat by dealing massive AOE damage.
Drinker, I like your revamped version and genuinely wish that you had have written the story line from your perspective instead.
The only "real" reason that they made fat Thor, is that they overpowered him in Infinity War and essentially had to nerf him in End Game.
In IW, He came to the battle of Wakanda charged and he literally turned the tide of the fight. Once Wakanda and the heroes fighting were safe, he turned his attention to Thanos and despite Thanos having a complete infinity gauntlet, still nearly killed him. It was only Thors' resurfaced arrogance that saved Thanos.
Now if you put that Thor in End Game, he wipes the floor with Thanos in the final climactic battle. There is no need for all the other heroes to show up as Thor could have just swooped in and decapitated a vanilla Thanos in seconds. Obviously they could have nerfed him in another way like they did with the Hulk (holding up the ruins of the building) or with Doctor Strange (holding back the lake water), and personally I would have preferred that too as it wouldn't have gone against everything that Thor had thus far became.
That's my two cents anyway.
When a drunk guy ranting on the internet is making a major character in a cinematic universe better than they are in what is a landmark film of cinema.
I think the exact same thing every time I watch one of Drinker's vids. What the **** is going on in writers rooms these days that results in so much utter garbage being churned out?
@@Raskolnikov70 liberalism is what's going on ... the deliberate emasculation of western culture by the usual suspects.
And it's palpable.
@@mandelbro777 I agree completely, but you'd think they'd find some better writers to push their agenda. It's not just biased, it's straight-up bad writing.
"landmark film"?
Well, eeeehhhhhhhhh, no. It's really not.
I'm not sure why you would even say what you did.
You didn't make a counter argument to any of his points. You called him a drunk and used that to disregard everything he said. Am I right?
Did you think the writers treatment and direction for the character of Thor (is this film) was a logical progression?
Or
Was Thor's storyline another attempt to change the characters that we have grown up with? In order to perpetuate the new agenda of "white man bad" and usher in a new line of strong but female (and somewhat diverse) characters to replace male ones. This male character was poorly written into a degrading (lazy writing) and illogical character arc.
One last thought, shouldn't the present queen of Asgard have been the ruler? Was that character too old or was she ruled out because she had taking a submissive role (in today's world) to the past king (a male of all things)?
You see? It's the little things that make this film definitively not a "landmark film".
@@leveljoe I think Avengers: Endgame is a landmark film considering it grossed the most money of any film in the history of the entire world lmao 🤣
Also, I ain't gonna bother responding to the fortress of arguements and questions you threw at me; I've got better things to do than to argue with someone on the internet. All I'll say is that it shouldn't be the case that a guy on the internet (drunk or not) is better at writing a famous character than the actual Hollywood writers that made the character in the first place. The like-to-dislike ratio proves that the drinker wrote Thor better than the writers did, but this shouldn't be the case.
Edit: spelling
It's funny how Fat Thor is "fatshamed" throughout the movie... Meanwhile, girls are beautiful in all sizes, you go girl! hash tag body positivity!
Again with the hypocrisy..
Because men are just not allowed to catch a damn break in any way from these “progressive”-minded people.
Ya'll need to get laid
an man is obese while women are pluss sized
@@HidrogenoyMau says the nerd 😂
@Subi_fan They have had tons of Black Widow ass shots in the MCU films you dumb fuck. Have you even watched any of these movies? You sound like a sensitive little bitch. Oh boohoo they made a joke about a man having a nice ass in a marvel movie, oh no,how will you ever sleep at night? Whiny bastard
This version of Thor could have introduced us to his Berserk Rage that he’s known for in the comics, thus also expanding on the Asgardian mythos as well
I wanted grumpy old man Thor from the comics, this would have basically been it. He still could have cracked a couple jokes, his old self shining through here and there, to give you hope, but it's so heavily weighed down by his fatalism that he often appears to be operating by contempt. He's not a carbon copy of Odin, not by a long shot, but seeing him embrace harsh practicalities would be engaging to watch, and sad knowing how much of Thor's vibrant self is lost in this scenario.
Good idea, plus he could have used his belt of strength mentioned in Spiderman
Charles Beck WE WERE ROBBED I TELL YOU
I would pay to watch this Fixed version of Thor 👍
Marvel: Thor needs to build up to being a great leader. That is his destiny. Through years and years of story time, through 3 solo movies, and 4 Avengers movies this is what we’ve built him up to.
Marvel (2019): Thor doesn’t want to be a leader anymore.
Fans: why?
Marvel (2019): cause there’s a black, gay, woman who deserves it more.
Am I alone in thinking it's rather amusing that he gave her the crown when just in Ragnarok it was Valkyrie who was the drunken loser who'd given up because she failed to stop Hela?
No, good sir, you are not alone. Even if Thor did come the conclusion that he didn’t want to rule.... why Val? She’s an awesome character, and I like the way she was acted. But... Leader? Where? Why? What?
@@Noin007 Well it just shows that if you are a stronk BAM wamenses your mistakes doint mather...XD
"Thor kind of forgot about being a leader."
Keiichi81 God, I heard that in their smug voices.
“Thor: Rebel Wilson” wasn’t as cool as they’d hoped somehow.
Jesus fucking christ i can't breathe 😂😂
The changes done to Thor in Endgame DO make perfect sense, in terms of the next stage of MCU films, set to fully drop into SJW diversity Hades. The top four male heroes had to change in a way resulting in their being set to the side, to open up the main stage for Captain Marvel and company to lead in the "the future is female" era. Stark is dead, Cap is retired, Thor is goofing off, and Hulk has gone Prof. Simp (as opposed to the raw macho mountain he was prior to End Game).
More like Thor the "Dude" Lembowski wasn't as cool as they'd hoped somehow.
The end to hulks ‘arc’ was shite was well, not as bad as Thor’s
Yep
I despise the fact they stopped Lou Ferrigno from playing Hulk anymore. He was still doing the voice of Hulk and the facial expressions too, what a shame
yeah, Hulks an SJW now, Evident since the casting of Mr SJW, Mark Ruffalo.
Made me google what the hell is an SJW. Now I can agree. Great character lost.
Tim Gooding Wait this is your first time hearing the word sjw? Are you new here?
gosh this video was so good. I can’t express enough how much I enjoy your videos. you go into real depth, there’s not a moment where I feel bored or I feel like there’s just filler in the video. every sentence you say genuinely adds to the video and you just do such a good job. as someone with ADD it’s hard to find a video longer than 30 seconds that keeps my attention but you succeed in encapsulating me for the entirety of the video
First time I was this early for a Drinker video... He was only buzzed.
Don't worry, I'm properly drunk now.
@@TheCriticalDrinker How many shots did you take in that minute?
@@TheCriticalDrinker go 'way now
god i dont know why these "i was early" comments got popular
@@Sonofsun. Who still likes "i was early" comments in 2020?
That was a pretty amazing way to fix the character while still telling the same story. Especially the reason for leaving Valkyrie in charge. I hated the movie reason. Thor was unworthy because he spent 5 years as a drunk avoiding his responsibilities, so he passed the mantle to a girl who spent 1500 years as a drunk avoiding her responsibilities.
*handclaps
Wow, that’s a very insightful comparison. Thank you Troy!
Not only did she run away from her responsibilities, she sold aliens into slavery and eventually execution in the arena. But, they show she's friends with the Hulk, so that makes her a good person!
@@dannypalin9583 Thor's reaction to Hulk naked shows why Valkyrie liked Hulk.
"He's got no interest in leading his people. He instead spends his days yelling at people on the internet."
I laughed harder at that than I should've
That’s the entire American Democrat party these days.
Didn't his people kinda get... completely wiped put?
@@TarotVylan it was only half of them
@@gregjones7724 It's both parties. They serve the same masters.
Honestly, if Trump is any indicator, a leader yelling at his people on the internet is the next step for politicians.
Marvel has this disease where they dump all the repect and badass development of a character just for a dumb joke.
Eg:- Nick fury getting his scars by a cat.
They do. That cat thing is insulting. Any cat that crossed Nick Fury or anyone able to, is getting strangled and vaporised. Beaten into a bloody pulp. You do not laugh off losing a eye! That cats getting put down. You could legally put it down.
Except that the cat actually isn't where he got his scar, because they made a mistake and the cat got his good eye, meaning it must have healed.
"llama in one hand and a bloodstained shovel in the other."
OH MY GOD HE KILLED CHRISRAYGUN
so that's why he hadn't uploaded in a while... paul probably helped the drinker do it too
@@tjfrye11 Too busy sh*****g Laci???
When I first watched "Endgame" I felt constantly like the film's timing was off, which is completely uncharacteristic for a Russo brothers movie.
Usually I attribute odd visual timing to bad editing. But in this case it was a tonal issue.
There was just too much goofiness for something that dealt with half an apocalypse. It's like they were shoehorning in drama AND comedy in some scenes.
You're right: among many other things, we should have had an ultra-serious and ultra-focused Thor.
As I first watched it I also felt something was way off, I had constant complaints. The movie turned around for me when they started going back in time, and during the final battle. But leading up to the Battle of New York scene the movie was all over the place and sloppy for a Russo Brothers film. I mean, Winter Soldier and Infinity War are masterpieces. The more I have watched Endgame it has gotten better, and they ended it on a perfect note with Cap. But, whoever decided to go in the direction they went in with Banner and Thor got it completely wrong, and I'm almost surprised it didn't ruin the movie (shocking that Captain Marvel's scenes were actually fine).
@@Name-se3lf I agree with every word that you wrote. "Winter Soldier" is my favorite comic movie ever, and "Infinity War" is a close second. I have a vivid memory of watching "Endgame" during opening day and wondering to myself if anyone else thought that the pacing was bizarre. Then they went to the slow scene of Robert Downey/Stark washing dishes, and someone in my audience sighed heavily. Nope.
@@AnnusMirabilus For sure, I still think Winter Soldier is the best Marvel film, but not only that, it's a straight up amazing political thriller and I love how edgy it is, I think it's one of the only Marvel films that broke their cookie cutter mold and I have no doubt it would not get made the same way with current day Disney's attitude. Infinity War is almost as good and it definitely has the edge in spectacle, it will always have a special place because it was the culmination of everything we were all waiting for since Iron Man. Tbh I'm not really surprised with how Endgame turned out, I had a sneaking suspicion they would never live up to Infinity War, and with how uneven the movie is it makes me think they just didn't have enough story/material left to fill it out, that's why we got so much borderline slapstick/180 character arcs in it. It might have been a whole lot tighter if it was actually cut down
I agree. Watch Infinity War and Endgame in a row. It's hard to see that the movies had the same writers and producers.
I always associated the Russos with more serious Marvel movies. I feel that comedy isn't their strong point.
Infinity war was so good that people didn’t realize End Game was so so
I did. I dare even call Endgame disappointing. I'd go as far as say it's borderline bad.
It doesn't cross the border, but it's certainly far closer than it ever should have been.
DaMaster012 This updated Thor character ark, Hulk getting his chance to fight Thanos, and a time war (maybe with Loki from the past or even Thanos himself) to raise the stakes and would’ve made the middle of the movie pace so much better. It dragged too much and nothing was happening. I also believe Thor should’ve snapped instead of Hulk since that would’ve been his redemption for failing to kill Thanos. Also, why the hell didn’t Antman just go through time vortex like what they said in Ant-Man 2? Why did they have a rat to bring him back? That was just lazy writing.
@@tiger_lord305 THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The final third was amazing. The first two thirds were dull.
H T woo I like this.
12:37 Will, your version is the superior one, given how many restrictions you've put on yourself. Fantastic work man)
It's funny, I kept thinking this same thought every time I saw his character in endgame:
Rather than take a chance to illustrate how trauma and loss and powerlessness turns people into abusers of power, the movie settles for making fat jokes.
But, for some reason, the MCU never made fun of fat women. Hmm...
In my opinion both the versions discussed could work. Both show two very plausible outcomes that can come from the depression of losing 'nearly' everything you care for.
'either give up entirely or hold tighter to whats left.'
The fat jokes failed badly though. that part I didn't agree with. When he learned about the time travel idea he should've been a little more interested/ enthusiastic. I'd think 'A chance to fix my mistakes' would be a good cause for someone with survivors guilt/ depression to rally to.
I feel like any hero won't become washed up and useless if their friends die.
I feel like they'd get leagues stronger to protect what they have left.
honestly, it depends on the character... for instance, tony going & not having any of it makes sense because he doesn't want to mess anything up after it's finally going ok for him. i do agree that some characters (hulk/thor) going soft doesn't make any sense though... especially when hawkeye went full on ninja after his family died
Thor has lost everything in the comics before. Instead of becoming a fat coward, he did everything he could to rebuild what he lost, going so far as finding a way to resurrect the other gods. That's what feels more insulting to me about this movie version of Thor: it doesn't measure up to the source material in any shape or form, and it ends up corrupting the source material itself because of Marvel's insistence on making the comics mirror the movies instead of the other way around
Thor and Hawkeye both lost their families and many of their friends. One becomes a tubby joke, while the runs around continuing to save people by eliminating villains. Funny how it's the dude who's not some powerful alien being who decides to make the world a better place and not the guy with the power, people, and technology to do so.
That's because he's a man, and men in the MCU retreat into their holes in times of adversity. Every woman in the MCU is stronger in character, if you'll notice. Widow sacrificed herself, beating Clint to the punch. Valkyrie is now "king", for fuck's sake. Witch beat Thanos single-handedly. And Capt. Marvel is their most powerful hero. MCU is dead.
@@InfernosReaper Hawkeye became a psychopathic dime store batman. What are you getting on about?
Am I the only one who remembers that interesting point in Infinity War when Hulk refused to go out and help the Avengers multiple times and we were left wondering what was happening to him ?
Because after Endgame no one seemed to remember that.
No one seemed to remember that there was something going on with him and the writers completely erased that plot point from existence.
He had to use iron Man armor because he could not get it up. Then became a hipster soy boy in End Game.
They abandoned Hulk's arc after Ragnarok and basically just did a quick fix on him into an NPC in Endgame. You'll also notice they NEVER came back to the romantic arc he had going with Natasha.
The way you say "diverse" cracks me up.
Yeah he does it well on purpose :) #TodaysCrapFilmingPolicy
The only good, congruent moment Thor had in _Endgame_ was "I _knew_ it!" when Cap picks up Mjolnir. It shows that Thor has become big-hearted and confident enough to revel in a moment he felt nervous about in _Age of Ultron_ .
And the fact that Cap had the decency not to reveal it until it was necessary to save Thor's life... _[Italian chef finger-kissing gesture]_
Uh what? No. That was one of the most stupid moments in the movie. It also made no sense. Either the hammer doesn't do anything and Thor's power is completely internal, or else the hammer is the thing that has all the power so Ragnarok was wrong. Plus even without the hammer Thor is much stronger than Captain America and is also much more durable. So if Thor can't get the job done then Captain America would be utterly useless. Thor should have be yelling "wtf you think you gonna do against Thanos except get your ass beat?" It's called internal consistency.
This illustrates all the faults with Endgame Thor, and how he should've been written. Well done, Critical Drinker, well freakin' done.
Disney: "No male Avenger can be allowed to come anywhere close to being as overpowered as our new mascot...Captain Marvel. Seig Feminismus! Seig Feminismus! Seig Feminismus!"
Fans: ... 😦?
I think this whole character arc in Endgame is a great litmus test for how people react to complete failure. Some people never recover, while others see it as a reason to start down a new path. Some characters would fall into "fat" depression, but not Thor. His journey changed him into a person who wouldn't react passively.
Came too late here, but I agree.
If they had made their homework and investigated actual depression, they would have found people like Thor never give up entirely forever, but they have episodes when they give up entirely on life for many months intermingled with episodes of total focus (almost to the point of mania) on getting things done.
Absolutely perfect re-write. Drinker shows again he's got more skill after a pint of Jameson's then an entire team if Marvel writers.
@Laurence Leiter Yes.
Good movies don't make billions, generally.
@Laurence Leiter I disagree.
People spend their money on trash with great frequency
A lot of current movies are spectacles, and, while they can be mindless fun, they're not particularly edifying.
Obviously, "good" is an opinion, in matters of art; however, using money as the primary indicator of an artwork's value, rather than its aesthetic, is a mistake, in My opinion.
@Laurence leiter @steven durham Products that make money are heavily commercialized regardless of them being good or trash. Just look at Joker. Now compare it to venom. Both had remarkable box office returns but i think we can all agree on which movie outperforms the other when it comes to quality. Great Cinematography, smooth editing and sound mixing are enjoyable to watch and the average joe looking for action might not care about story structure and the writing, they just want a distraction, a dopamine filled experience, they don't want to think about existential dilemmas and the human nature, they want to take their minds off of those exact thoughts they have enough problems to solve, but that doesn't mean they're stupid they're quite observant. They know The film isn't squat without a good script. Now perspectives will change that's for sure but you can't rule out genuine masterpieces because of their box office performance it's those modest successes and sometimes flops that stand the test of time.
Laurence Leiter Haha, just go be a Hollywood writer. 🙄 I don’t think there’s an industry that’s gate kept harder than Hollywood.
eh....I feel thor was written fine as is really
Sounds like a character that's way too serious for for Hemsworth to stick around. Dude is all about humour these days. I prefer serious Thor with bits if humour, not funny Thor with bits of brevity.
First Thor was best Thor
@@funnyfunnyvalentine7991 I agree dude. I liked the Branagh theatrical touch. Not that I don't have crititicisms but I liked that more serious Thor like the comics. Just like I prefer the first Lord of the Rings movie.....had a more epic feel.
@@davidkymdell452 Fellowship's my favourite LotR movie too, but how did it feel more epic than Two Towers or (especially) Return of the King?
to be fair though Thor was getting stale in some regards and hemsworth felt this way. Rag made him and Hulk have comedy but still be fucking badasses. Thor literally had to stop Hulk from taking out Surter and he had good moments with Loki. Plus i admire the use of led zepplin lol.
@@EgyptianSpaceDog maybe epic is the wrong word. Mmm....more...real? Sure, the other movies were bigger because there was more going on but the sense of adventure was greater in the first movie and I connected more with the characters. If I'm not mistaken, the first movie covers more ground geographically than the other two.
Are we voting on Thor? I vote for driven, hyper-protective Thor. Fat Thor was just embarrassing.
hear-hear
she is garbage tier acting made into human form
And made no sense at all given the character's history and growth several movies.
Thor is the best character in the MCU when it comes to Character progressing and History, and his story is so filled with loss. He lost everything through the "Infinity Saga", and it is only fitting that he should have gotten better than the "Fat Thor" joke he became at the end.
Even though Fat Thor took me a bit by surprise when I saw him, his downfall to drink and despair is understandable, even if they took the concept too far and turned it into a big fat joke. I mean, when you lose everything and everyone you once held dear, and whatever is left doesn't compare, you go 1 of 2 roads; either up in flames of rage, or down in despair, seemingly having nothing left to lose.
I also strongly agree with what you said about "Handing Asgard to Valkyrie", who was a drunkard before when we first meet her XD I never understood that part myself, but then again, I never understood much until I started watching your sarcastic criticism ;) Keep it up
The really sad thing is that the dramatic scenes with "depressed Thor" were really highlights to watch. They should've gone harder on the theme of him being broken but making jokes from time to time, instead of a joker with a touch of depression. "Viking Thor" at the end of the movie, was amazing.
Yeah, his scene with his mother and when he shows vulnerability was such a treat to watch.
Its messed up that they made it funny to see a man down when so many men worldwide commit suicide- Number one biggest of men. Fucking bs society. Clearly because hes a man they not only dont care but they actually laugh and make fun of him. Sick.
@@idreeskhan8885 Exactly....remember Wanda ? was she a butt of every joke so far ? NO!
@@idreeskhan8885 I didn’t see it as just played for laughs. Some of it was dramatic like when Thanos is mentioned
@@howisthatgay4275 It was played for laughs, a massively part of it was. It was taking the piss out of him and the intention was for everyone to laugh, which they did in audiences. They also made him funny while depressed in order to make the audience laugh, but thats not how people are when depressed. You even have Rocket raccoon slap him. Could never think of this being done to a girl who is even 1 percent as depressed as Thor was.
The next one has to be Luke Skywalker. Diseny ruined one of my childhood icons and this injustice must be rectified.
@Klausbärbel Fömm we need to buy JJ Abrams a ride on a SpaceX rocket, and forget to bring him back.... the bastard killed my childhood heroes...
I've thought about this before and using a similar method to the drinker where I try to stick close enough to the original plan I think it could be done by tying Palpatine (who I personally would rather not bring back but it is what it is) into it and having it work with return of the jedi rather than diminish it. So I'd have it be that during Jedi happened to survive being disintegrated in the pit he attached his weakened spirit to Luke (who being a relative noob compared to Sheev) has no idea this just happened. After some years go by and Palpatine has had time to regain some of his power by steathily leeching off of Luke and covertly planning his next move while gathering information he makes his move while Luke is meditating with Anakin and the other force ghosts present managing to briefly take control of Luke and seemingly destroy Anakin's spirit with a dark side technique he developed in the years he was hidden ( this is to explain the lack of Anakin force ghost simply coming in and setting kylo straight). It doens't take long before Luke gets back control of his body but the damage has been done and after trying to expel Plapatine realizes that he is too dug in to easily be expelled and enters self-isolation to meditate on a solution in a strong light side location. Circling back to when it looked like sheev managed to destroy Anakin it would be revealed over the sequels that all he did was cause his consciousness to be reborn in the form of Rey (to explain her ridiculous inexplicable powers and competency in things she has no business being good at) with a slight change made so Rey can only use the inexplicable knowledge in highstress situations or at odd times beyond her ability to initiate for the most part making her arc one in which she masters and uncovers her previous self with the end goal being a Spirit/mind battle with Palpatine where in a dramatic moment in the final battle all hope would seem lost only for Anakin (Hayden Christianson) to appear and together they could destroy Palpatine for good by pulling his spirit to the other side of the force and in the process sacrifice all 3/2 of their consciousnesses. The idea is still rough as I don't know in whose body it would take place and what role Luke would play in the final battle but it would be better than what we got.
I never thought about it this way, I always thought it was reasonable he got depressed since he failed and the world got fcked.
The only issue I had with Thor in end game was that the writers totally forgot he could open the Bifrost with his new axe
Fuck even I forgot that feature lol
But when did he need the bifrost? Where did he need to travel during endgame?
@@endiewarners5203 I could see the Thor we knew from previous movies beginning a quest to seek out time travel/a means of fixing the universe well before the other avengers. He has the Bifrost literally at his disposal and was established even in Infinity War as "I'm still here because fate willed it" he could have spent the last five years on an obsessive quest looking for a way to undo Thanos' damage, rather than just accepting Thanos' "what's done is done" line. Thor doesn't accept defeat so easily. Then suppose when he's introduced in Endgame, it's after 5 exhausting years of chasing anything remotely resembling a lead, only stopping in to New Asgard for occasional supplies (thereby being just as scarce and uninvested) and when Hulk and Rocket find him he's not depressed and fat, but rather just tired and put out. He's searched every corner of the universe and found nothing.
@@endiewarners5203 Opening scene? The scene where he came back to the HQ?
@@Mechachao oh, I do like your version much better than fat Thor.
would legit LOVE to see a remake with this Thor tbh fits way better and gives us the chance to keep treating Thor like the badass he is suppost to be
“The last decent Marvel flick we’ll get for awhile.” Correction: it’s the last decent Marvel flick we’ll get ever
Nah, Marvel will come around again. And if they don't, whomever buys them off of Disney will.
Or until they decide to reboot the whole thing over again.
I wouldn't say never... just a generation or so. 20-50yrs down the line there might be another decent one, probably after a few healthy rounds of marvel being bought and sold like the cheap whore it currently is.
I hate to admit that I think you’re right, but I like to hope that they will eventually correct course.
The Multiverse of Madness will be dope.
Definitely like the idea of cold and ruthless Thor.
I do as well - the problem is he'd be too powerful in End Game. I think the reason they did Fat Thor was because IW Thor was OP, he basically killed Thanos at the end of IW who just got the snap off before he died to undo it. An awakened, angry Thor on his A game with Stormbreaker would be too powerful and would steal the limelight away from Steve and Tony. Kinda like why Vision was incapacitated very early on in IW as he too would have been OP and would have presented issues for Thanos in IW. Vision and Thor both get nerfed to allow the events to take place but I agree they could have come up with something better than Fat Thor, argument there.
Bottom line, Thor represents the masculinity, strength and courage that every young man should aspire to be.
He represents the prodigal son, a young man with unlimited potential needing temperance and wisdom to become the great man he is destined to be.He is everything feminist infested DISMARVEL hates, and liberal Hollywood wanted to ruin his legacy before all our eyes.
Yeah, amazing to see a man have to deal with depression and come out the other side. Nobody wants to see that right? Well, nobody that hasn't dealt with their own problems and self worth.
It's no accident that the two most traditionally powerful characters that happened to be male were both shown to be weaker and turned into goofy comic relief while the stoic, hard as nails Captain Marvel was taking down ships by herself and leading the sisterhood....."she's not alone"...(sigh)
J Rich Everyone wants to see it. That’s why Drinker re wrote fat Thor to give it a similar story without the emasculating parts.
Truth
Plus he’s white, like super white, blonde hair blue eyes, the worst of the worst for them. They needed to make him a loser.
The "I'm still worthy" was probably one of my all time favorite marvel moments
I was saddened by how Thor was treated in Endgame. He was my favourite Marvel hero growing up and to see him as a fat waste of skin broke my heart. It tainted the enjoyment I should have felt watching the spectacular conclusion to the Infinity Saga.
I told my eleven-year-old brother to write an essay about this movie (quarantine and he was bored). He had to tell me his favorite parts and his least favorite parts. As well as his favorite characters and least favorite characters. He told me his favorite part was the fight. His least favorite part was how they treated Thor. That it would have been funny if it was just for a few scenes, but that he should have worked it off to be the old Thor. His favorite character is Iron Man and his least favorite character was “Captain Woman” (he forgot her name, but I think that fits pretty well).
If an eleven-year-old can understand that better than the actually trained screenwriter, then we have a problem.
That´s quite a god activity to give to your kid to spend this quarantine...
"Captain Woman" 🤣
That does indeed sum it up
@MackLyon same thing happened to my friend's son. His favorite character was Thor and when he saw what they did to him he hated it right away. He left the cinema very disappointed.
@@Telcontar86 "Rear Admiral Lady"
Captain woman is way too accurate lol
Thor Ragnarok: You are not the God of Hammers
Avengers Infinity War: Thor needs a new hammer
Hasif Baharin it wasn’t his source of power, but he needed a conduit to focus and channel his power to harm Thanos, Odin had the Odin force but still used his staff to channel his power so Thor having a weapon to increase his potential makes sense
Lazy Lajdak He needed the new axe to kill Thanos. This was stated in the movie. Thanos is damn near indestructible and whooped Thor in the very beginning of that movie. He could resist his like lightning just like Hela did. Only a weapon like Stormbreaker can penetrate through Thanos skin and it blocked the power of the stones.
Lazy Lajdak what would cause more damage, a normal wave of water that usually hit people on a beach, or the same amount of water hitting someone all at the same time like a wave but through a small pressure hose? Hint: one of these would be lethal
@@revolverswitch yea, I also believe Odin Sacraficed his eye for wisdom. And in the movie Thor definitely ecomes wiser while also losing his eye witch gave it even more significants
I agree with all this and I would love to add that maybe in the 5 years that Thor has lead New Asgard, he hasn't been able to lift his hammer/axe cos he is no longer worthy. So when he meets his mother and finally returns to his former, true self and picks up the hammer again, it would make it all the more poignant.
Drinker: so I woke up in my back garden the other day with a inflatable llama in one hand and a bloody shovel in the other.
Me: first time?
The introduction of "Fat Thor" was the point in End Game that I checked out. Not just out of the movie, but out of the MCU. And not a moment too soon, apparently.
Yeah, it was fun to see other side of him in Ragnarok, but they took it way too far. To a point where is not funny. It's incoherent he gave away his right to a Valkyrie that doesn't even look like a Valkyrie in the first place.
@@Emy-fv5ny I can get people being mad about it I guess, especially comic die-hards... but I actually had no problem with it. It nerfed him for the end battle (kind of needed) and let you feel for him more deeply as his hero's journey arc revolved around to his realization that even at his worst, he was still worthy. I do like how Drinker changed the 'take' on him, but he did get redemption in the end. If a Thor fan from comics, sure, I would be pissed. But I'm not. And I liked (enough at least) the way they handled him even knowing they nerfed him for laughs. (Truthfully the Drinker version would have been equally as fulfilling though)!
@@kempkennedy5068 They made him the comic relief of the movie when they had plenty of characters who were better at that.
Sorry, it is what it is and it's not good to me.
Your pathetic and toxic if don't like one thing that doesn't mean you just lose all hope it's one fucking get over your self your like those star wars fans who cry that the sequels ruined there fandom and act like the original trilogy had absolutely no flaws
@@owendillon3289 Pathetic is not accept that ppl have different opinions and that they don't have to like something just because the rest or the majority do.
In the case of the Star Wars fans, when you really love something you will know what it's to be a fan and what it feels to see what you love being destroyed in front of your eyes.
Love how they made two of the strongest, most powerful characters the from previous movies to a sideshow.
Who else besides Thor? You talking about Hulk?
@@sithsaiyan4529 has to be, he's been the sideshow the entire mcu and its fucking criminal
@@TY-km8hj I agree. I think the MCU did hulk dirty. It's a shame to say the Ed Norton Hulk film was the best iteration Hulk we've had.
@@thatoneguychad420 yhh tho I do like ruffalo as hulk and Bruce I just don't like how he's used in movies
@@TY-km8hj same, the dude is a good actor and he does really well with the material he is given. Deffo I give him props.
This was definitely a missed opportunity. Love your take on Thor so much better than the one we ended up with
One thing that is understated about Thor's arc is that he did have a unique role in enabling Thanos. Had he not destroyed Asgard and defeated Hela, Thanos might've never gotten the Tesseract and the snap might've never happened. Not only this, but this all happened under Thor's watch-he finally takes the reigns, and everything goes more horribly wrong than it had ever done before. Though it might not have been especially his fault, that doesn't mean Thor might not convince himself that it was.
Emphasized correctly, this could be taken to produce the sort of broken version of Thor we saw in Endgame, although I think a more serious take would've been appropriate. Otherwise, however, it isn't entirely unreasonable for Thor to think that his father had been wrong to entrust him with the fate of Asgard, especially if he interpreted events in a particular way.
Unfortunately, what I'm describing is an idealized version of what was shown, not the actuality of it, and it's pretty clear that Fat Thor was a decision made primarily for comedy and not to explore the damage these failures did to him mentally.
427Arbok you make a good point...it did happen under his watch...but lest we forget it was hella that caused it all...he destroyed Asgard to prevent her spreading throughout the galaxy as we know she would have...it was his and his peoples sacrifice he should be remembered for. Also he had no idea that thanos was going to benefit or he maybe would have factored it into his actions.
Thank you!! Thor’s story arch culminating with his lost eye, a sign of wisdom in Odin mythology, was perfect. The Thor story line in end game is so against his entire arch it nearly ruins the movie for me
@Laurence LeiterThor 1 was good, dark world was fine. As for worst marvel movie...... AHEM.....Captain marvel......AHEM
At least his eye wasn't taken out because of infected cat scratch!
you woke up hugging an inflatable llama, with a blood-covered shovel next to you, and this is the first thing you think of? Well, I think you have earned yourself a subscriber.