How NOT To Critique Movies
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ส.ค. 2019
- It seems a lot of people these days like to look at the 'deeper meaning' in movies, so I thought it might be interesting to share some thoughts on how my own reviews are done, as well as comparing some well known movies with similar themes.
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![เปิดบ้าน เปิด Supercar อั๋นโอกิ เคยเอา rolls Royce เเลกพระ องค์ละ 100 ล้าน l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FeGwJwXauZ0/mqdefault.jpg)
the downvoters didn't understand the underlying themes and allegorical representations within this video
Exactly! I had to watch it seven times to fully grasp the contrapunctual interleaving of contrasting imagery in relation to humanity's struggle to grapple with a colorless inebriation-inducing liquid.
Upvote this comment by Dr Deadbeat, pls. :D
Of course they did. They grasped the subtle underlying context and unspoken themes in the video, and rejected them because of their quasi-fascistic linearity and hyper-contextualized contextualization of the context, expressed in a deeply Islamophobic anti-complexity that tries to portray itself as a neo-Colonial Objectivist rhetorical flourish instead of the cis-misogynistic elitist allegorical propaganda that it actually is, regardless of the sheer amount of privilege on display in literally every second of this so-called "video".
@@garydouglass3597 Yes, I also love to drink.
That Other Guy I appreciate your view. However, I live by this motto: Eschew Obfuscation.
Which means, which I’m sure you understand, you lost me at “...hyper-contextualized.... I would apologize, but it’s my brain, and sometimes it goes its own way.
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. that way, you are a mile away and have their shoes" - anon
Didn't Groucho Marx say that?
@@neilgriffiths6427 It definitely wasn't Harpo that said it.
:)
It was Billy Connolly
@@roloug95 He might have said it during a comedy routine but it's not attributed to him. It's attributed to Jack Handey and it's from his book "Deep Quotes".
I remember my English Literature teacher asking me about the aims of Shakespear when he wrote 'Henry V'.
"Well, the rent for his rooms and bar bills were due. He knew he could crack out a real crowd-pleaser and, if he made the hero a British king, he'd be able to get interest from Queen Elisabeth!"
"Well, that's a possibility ... but not exactly what the O Level exam board will want to hear. So, can you come up with something more pretentious?"
I loved that teacher!
If stories don't teach anything, what's the point of them?
@@Ignirium The point is that they're fun?
@@kenoliver8913 Then anything that's "fun" is correct or good enough and doesn't need to be analyzed further.
@@Ignirium A good story will inevitably teach you something. An important lesson learned is one of the key elements of a well-written narrative. But let me ask, are you more likely to learn and apply a lesson that's spoken to you by a sixty year-old college professor that drones on for three hours. Never stopping to engage with the class or adding his own insight to what he's saying. Or, would you rather go on an adventure with a group of best friends. Watch and experience their pitfalls, victories, losses, and triumphs alongside them. Then come away saying "Wow. What a day." and try to apply the lessons you've learned from them to your own life.
College is refining the art of shoveling shit. I’m in grad school right now, and I am just learning how to make my papers as long as possible without repeating myself.😂
Francis Ford Coppola once said
"The only thing needed for a good movie are good writing and good acting"
Thanks for fighting the good fight.
Along with: natural disasters, rampant drug use and alcoholism, suicidal breakdowns, disturbing animal rights violations, heart attacks and the odd investigation into actual human corpses discovered on set.
What a masterpiece.
Interesting that you say that considering he made Apocalypse Now, an absolute visual spectacle. I would suppose therefore that writing for film actually encompasses the visual - I just watched a Pierce Brosnan Bond film where he hung on to a hot air balloon when a helicopter could track it down instead, which is what I perceive to be bad writing. So all in all the visual spectacle is only impressive when it fits the world designed by the writer..
Same can be applied to books but at the end of the day good story and good actors is all that matters.
Note he didn’t say good directing…
Where did he say this?
Saying themes are more important than plot, structure, and character development is like saying the steak was shit but the sauce was good.
Never have I ever heard a better anallogy. 👏👏👏👏
Or it's like saying that the steak, potatoes, sour cream, chives, salad, wine and sauce were all vile and retched but the restaurant's color theme was aesthetically pleasing.
No, it's like saying, yeah, it tastes like shit, but it's still steak and salad, full of vitamins and stuff.
Lqtm
Hey, you've always got to get the sauce
"Aww shit man, he's been writing for BuzzFeed this whole time"
I died
Class act 😂👏👏👏
I choked on my water.
Water? What's wrong with you?
I gagged on my beer!
;)
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!
The side effects of writing for BuzzFeed, "WENDY! I'M HOME!"
I got an 85% on a book report without actually reading the book. I just talked about its "themes" while grabbing random lines from the books to make my paper look more legit.
Yes, teachers don't actually read book reports anyway... a quick skim to check the clichés are in order
My oldest son got an A for a report on a book that didn't exist. He made it all up.
(It was so good, I asked him why this level of effort was missing in the rest of his schooling. He just shrugged.)
Are you serious?
I think it’s more of a quick skim to make sure all the pieces are there. If they did read all the book reports, oh my gosh, we would not get our grades until Midsummer.
Years ago, I trolled a friend of mine about how I wouldn’t watch The Shawshank Redemption until he watched Howard the Duck. He agreed.
Within less than a half hour, he stopped the Howard to express his disgust.
He was right: the ridiculous premise, the duck-related puns, the duck-related tits…
I knew this already, of course. However, I’m a monster, and began “explaining the deeper themes” of Howard being a Messiah figure and the like.
We had this conversation over the course of two hours, where I did not break character and watched his brain melt.
I still laugh about it.
Ah, true friendship!
What is it with men and "The Shawshank Redemption"? I've never met one who didn't love that film. Stupefying.
@@pninnabokov3734 I thought it was ok but I never loved it or recommended it. But we haven't met.
You're an evil person genuinely. Wanna be friends?
@@pninnabokov3734 I've never actually seen it and I'm almost 30. I haven't seen a lot of movies considered to be "essentials", I did enjoy Stuart Little 2 though
The Room is a slow-paced psychological thriller that deals with the following themes: a relationship breaking down. Betrayal by a significant other. The loss of mutual friends. Grief and sadness. Escape from a toxic relationship, and moving on. And it ends in a powerful twist ending that you rarely see in mainstream movies.
Clearly The Room is a 10/10 masterpiece.
Exactly. When you focus on just a broad outline or "themes" and ignore execution, you can argue that any bad movie is a masterpiece. All movies sound good when you read the blurb summarizing it on the case.
hahahahahahaha
great review mate
This comment, more than any other I have viewed makes me desperately wish there was a heart button.
Great. Now they're going to start quoting you in the marketing.
Just hit em' with the Tarantino: "I reject your hypothesis."
MSM: "Tarantino freaks out over reporter's question." 🤦♂️
Or you can go one step farther and go Mythbusters: "I reject your reality and substitute my own."
Tarantino had an excellent rhetorical point to make but made it very poorly. Better phrasing would have been "I don't accept the premise of your argument." When somebody asks you a horrifically leading question which makes assumptions that have not at all been established as truth, you don't answer the question - you just reject it completely. The classic example is the question, "When did you stop beating your wife?" Don't let 'em set the stage with false presumptions.
@@imapseudonym6198 Good point. His reaction was understood but wording seemed a bit out of place.
don't bog me down with facts when my mind's made up.
The notion that just because a work has themes it's immune to criticism is hilarious to me. Not only does Drinker correctly point out that a good, solid theme can be ruined by horrible execution, but there's also such a thing as a stupid, contrived or boring theme as well. That's almost like saying "You can't criticize this movie/story/whatever because it has characters!" Themes are just something that most stories generally have, the question is whether they are well thought out, well executed and compelling.
The real issue is that no one these days seems to be able to say "Yeah it was trash, but I still liked it" anymore. You can even say that the other person doesn't get it but again, accepting the flaws seems to not be an option for a lot of people online these days. They've fallen for the bullshit that is the "art is subjective" mentality. You're not allowed to say something is bad if someone can string enough bullshit together to make it seem deep and impactful. The problem is that saying art is subjective misses the reality of the thing (and this is coming from an art major). You can like something and accept that it's not good. Most people don't like modern art, architecture, etc. So if most people don't like it, that means it's objectively bad right? Nope. Not in the minds of "artists" and "critics" who think that because their brains work different (whether that's from mental illness I'll never know) that means that they can see things in ways others can't and BECAUSE of that they can decide what's good and what's not and no one else can have an opinion.
I guess the point I'm making is that you've got people that are so self absorbed and in love with their own opinions that they'll refuse to accept something as bad if they can find meaning in it. Even worse, they won't accept that maybe their tastes aren't as refined as they pretend they are. They scoff at those who enjoy the stupid fun action that come with giant monster movies or even a few superhero films because they treat themes as padding that just prolongs the run time until they get to what everyone wants to see. Rare you'll find someone who enjoys a B movie defend it on the merits of "Well it explores x". They accept the flaws in it, and hell sometimes it's the flaws that make them more enjoyable. But with a lot of "critics", particularly from the Twitterverse, flaws don't exist so long as the right politics or themes are discussed. They won't accept that it's bad because they don't wanna seem lame for liking something they know is bad. But honestly there's nothing inheritely wrong with liking bad movies so long as you admit it. There's nothing wrong with saying "Yeah it's not a good film but hey, I enjoyed it anyway".
Thank you! To your first sentence, I say that a lot (I enjoyed the Andrew Garfield Spiderman movies for their cinematography, even though the plots and characters were forgettable)
I think people forget that critics are supposed to criticize. If a critic only ever gives positive reviews, they are not effective, and will never help me to determine what media is worth consuming.
Even so, that doesn't account for taste. Really good critics will explain their criticisms and compliments. After reading a well-written positive review, I might come away with the understanding that "I won't enjoy that" or vise versa if the critic properly explains their points.
It is precisely the pseudo-intellectual critics that I do not appreciate. When I go to see a movie, the purpose is to be entertained. If I want a lecture on someone else's philosophy, I can always attend a free lecture at the local liberal arts college.
Gonna put this out first, I've seen more and more people online be able to admit to liking things that aren't good. I guess I guess the two of us just hang around different corners of the internet, or I'm misinterpreting and you're strictly talking about "critics" and not the average person.
Not sure if the issue is with the "art is subjective" mentality. I mean, if you refuse to accept that you might be wrong about something, then isn't that more of a "art is objective but most people lack the mental capacity to understand it" kinda mentality? Most of the people I've met who hold the "art is subjective" mentality are the type of people more likely to admit that the art they like isn't good, and not feel bad about it. I mean, when you say "Yeah it's not a good film but hey, I enjoyed it anyway", isn't "art is subjective" _exactly_ what you're saying?
Perhaps I'm just "arguing semantics". I'm still basically a child so I'm new to debate. I try to be aware of fallacies and avoid them, but I don't really get the "arguing semantics" one yet.
Lol I like so many terrible movies. Pluto Nash. Terrible terrible movie. Still like the dumbass movie though.
Good and bad is subjective tho.
This review explores themes of alcoholism and depression, with distinct subtexts of sarcasm and righteous indignation. Solid 9/10
This review is a joke LOL
You just don’t ‘get’ this movie at all. You’re not seeing the DEEPER THEMES.
Noice
My favorite comment today on the interweb
@@r-s3573 Maybe not. But sure as hell knows the deeper end of a bottle.
Praising a movie for its “themes” is akin to saying “he meant well.”
...or saying a woman has a great personality and is a great dancer.
Nailed it! ^^^
Superb!
I just got done watching Darling in the Franxx and while the ideas where interesting the execution was "meh." Its not just what you are telling its HOW well you do it
Citing 'themes' and 'tropes' constantly is a crutch for people who are bad at being creative.
Dear Sir:
You completely won me over with your insightful reviews. What I most respect about you, is your insistence on what I would call "composition". You look for well composed movies and media, those that have coherent scripts and solidly built structure.
I find it interesting that people seem to be impatient with you for that. You make it very clear that you're just fine with any given actor playing any given role (as long as they're competent), provided the narrative remains solid, it all fits together, and there's no obvious pandering. In other words, provided the whole maintains its artistic integrity.
I agree with you.
If you have to explain what a movie symbolizes,it doesn't.
-Roger Ebert
Convenient generalization by someone with a too well-established 'big name'.
It's not originally a movie, but examining the hidden symbology in The Wizard of Oz ist most insightgiving.
Then there's the 'just a sci-fi action flick' Starship Troopers.
Themes can make a good film great. Themes CANNOT make a bad film good.
Palladigm Well if it’s superbly well made and is weird with amazing themes I’d still say that’s good
Exactly. And that's why the movie The Great Escape sucks, despite many thinking it's good.
Dogmapile hey now you calm the fuck down.
If themes alone were how we critiqued movies, then literally any movie, no matter how good or how bad objectively, would be made an instant masterpiece simply by the virtue of being read deeply into. A crap film like _The Garbage Pail Kids Movie_ would be redeemed for the themes of stuff like beauty or inner beauty. Wait, if that movie's good because of theme, then why does nobody ever defend it, talk about it in filmmaking discussion, or hold it in any esteem besides the lowest possible esteem? Oh right, they don't talk about it or try to defend it because it's the most ANNOYING, GROSS, CRUEL, and UGLY film in existence. That is obviously terrible, but it contradict the standards of these pretentious knobheads that everything is good because theme.
A good story can save bad themes. Good themes can't save a bad story.
"Thematic undertones" = Clusterfuck writing
"Allegorical representation" = Bankrupt Moneyshot
I'm half disappointed all those words together didn't form together to make "independence day resurgence".
Grand total= They don't want to admit they liked a really bad movie
Allegories are an effective storytelling tool. The problem? You need a complete story to use them. An allegory is a complete story that your story is calling back to, if your story doesn't hold up without it it's a crutch.
I guess this is why your reviews are so spot on... because they have real content and actual substance. Even if that substance is alcohol.
For the record, your Midsummer review was 200% spot-on.
to celebrate, I'll re-watch The Wicker Man .... and you don't even have to ask which version.
The problem is you can derive a theme from almost anything if you try hard enough. Take a word like "loss" for example and you can apply it to each of the Star Wars movies.
1. Obi-Wan loses Qui-Gon
2. Anakin loses his mother
3. The Jedi lose their order
4. Luke loses his aunt and uncle
5. The heroes lose Han
6. Luke loses his father
7. Kylo Ren loses his father
8. We all lose hope in Disney
See? The entire Star Wars saga is about loss!
Your point 8 is pretty inaccurate. Who the hell had any hope according to Disney? Those satanist phucks that has ruined many generations of children, and brainwashed them to form the sick society we live in. One of the worst companies in the world.
Juzu Juzu Disney should seriously consider making some adult oriented animations or films. The children thing is getting boring every year.
Brilliant! But in MY opinion, Star Wars is really just about how much Luke Skywalker first hates blue milk but then only wants to get back to it.
@@RR-uc1wb nah just let them blackwash and reboot old stuff lol
8. The audience loses Luke... in more ways than one...
"Some people can read war and peace and come away thinking its a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe". ...Lex Luthor.
@Ricky Shiffer superman the good one from the 80s
@@exidor-1685 "That's probably the 70s."
I remember a time when I thought Gene Hackman was basically in every movie every made, except those few he wasn't in. Note to self: Enemy of the State was a pretty good flick.
that is so true. In the beginning was the word.
@@davidfloren5339 and ever so relevant! That’s a great movie that few people ever bring up anymore
From a former script editor: I love you man, I could never have put this so eloquently.
The segment about Paul Blart: Mall Cop is seriously one of the funniest things ever. Thank you.
A few years back in history graduate school (yeah, yeah, I know, but I had just got out of the military and Uncle Sam paid for it, so it seemed like a good idea at the time), any time a book review was written, it was strongly suggested that we analyze said book through the "lens" of race, class or gender (people actually referred to this as the Holy Trinity, sarcastically of course). So, if someone ever, EVER, uses the word "lens" to talk about your critique of a film, book, whatever, you know that a bunch of pretentious bullshit is soon to follow....
@@davidf2676 A history degree can be useful, insofar as it helps develop the skills you might need for law school or whatnot. It was a good degree for the twenty-year military career I enjoyed, helped me make sense of the big picture, etc... But a graduate degree in history is really only useful if you're A) going on to get a doctorate or B) trying to get a decent teaching job at a private or parochial school.
What they probably didn't tell you is that the concept of critiquing through a 'lens' is literally Marxist Critical theory. That's why the only lenses you were asked to look through were progressive liberal ones, because the whole point is to make people begin with the conclusion that racist/sexist/homophobic power structures exist, and work their way backwards through the literature to prove the point, even if the 'proof' is strained and manipulated, it doesn't matter, because that's the 'lens' that they view it with so that's 'their truth'. We had to do it in uni as well, and it was a pile of nonsense.
"I chose to view this material through the lens of someone who doesn't give a fuck about your race, class or gender..." How about that for some insights?
Humans are always closing their minds off to things, it's just what we do. I work on being as open to things as I can because every day I see examples of how close-mindedness impacts our lives in very negative ways. Close-mindedness is very broad, it covers anything from lack of restraint to flat out refusal to see anything outside your own world view. It is why we need to be ever-vigilant with ourselves, it is the only way that we can be the best we can.
@@tyrannicalchocolate - Yes, seriously, viewing things through the "lens" of X, Y, Z, is as ludicrous as announcing you're going to look at something through rose-tinted spectacles to judge its merits. You're pre-announcing your impartiality, for a medium that is intentionally subjectively interpreted, and then holding up a self-awarded trophy for saying that it proves the things you chose to believe are now actually there. - Cultist thinking.
How to critique movies in today’s world:
Lesson 1: Put together a theme that makes a film look more masterful than it really is.
Lesson 2: Hate anyone who disagrees with you.
Lesson 3: { footage not found }
NightHood02 Is that a reference to the non-existent third lesson about the Force from the Last Jedi?
Cough cough Hereditary
@@lupethekilla4200 Beat me to it.
Lesson 4: Profit.
Lesson 3: critique anyone who calls you out
This is a spot-on commentary. Having wasted a great deal of money with my literature degree, I can personally attest to the bs that are themes and symbolism. I took a lot of poetry classes, and I noticed there was a level of pretentiousness when analysing poetry, or even literature in general. The most important issue is that interpretation is subjective, and bias can completely reshape one person's perspective over another's. Another issue is that when a professor asks you to find meaning in a poem, humans will obey and find their own meaning - it does not mean that meaning is correct or valid. Sometimes a rose is just a rose. My professor would often find meaning in my work that wasn't necessarily my intent, but it could be seen as valid from her perspective, and I took it more as a critical thinking exercise than gospel, regardless of her teaching intent. If anything, this indicated to me that there doesn't *have* to be a deeper meaning, and if there is, there's no guarantee someone will get it right. Unless the author, songwriter, screenwriter, etc., explains the meaning of their work, any kind of interpretation can be valid. In fact, even if you are given the "answer", that does not take away from the ability to find different meanings if someone critiques it in a certain way. It certainly doesn't prevent one from being able to provide valid criticism and point out flaws and logical inconsistencies, regardless of what the creator intended. In other words, there is no correct interpretation of a work of art because it is all subjective, and, even if there is, it doesn't absolve said work of condemnation and even derision.
I've read and listened so much BS at college that I'm still traumatized about "finding meaning" in a certain thing. LOL
There was one day that a professor showed the students a painting from Van Gogh and asked what in their opinion Van Gogh was thinking when he painted those sunflowers. LOL
Unless the author had come out and said exactly what the themes and deeper meanings were, I didn't give a s*** but spouting some BS for a grade. If they did I'd go "that's canon", a friend even mentioned to a professor that her interpretation was basically fanfiction (after the final paper was graded and the test was standardized lol)"
So true, I took some English literature classes at uni and we had to interpret these images shown to us. One was a painting of a 16th century couple in front of the their land. People were literally analysing the fence line and back drop and the knitting the woman had in her lap. When it came to me I simply stated that the couple probably just wanted to be painted so they could put it on their wall? Lol like we do with photos. Another was a tree planted in a New York street with the metal grate around the dirt/roots of the concrete path. People were talking about it symbolising “captivity” and one girl said it represents the “circular realm of the universe” 😂😂😂 I said they wanted trees in the street and the grate is there so people don’t step on the roots? Like it doesn’t MEAN anything 🤦🏻♀️ I got bad looks and was basically told by the professor that “I didn’t get it”. It was the same with the books. It’s a story, that’s it. People were making up their own analysis out of thin air and getting praise when nothing in the story indicated those “themes”. Ugh I hated it and that’s why I passed nursing science easily because it makes SENSE 😂
The way I usually put it is that when you create a piece of art or media, and you put it out into the world for all to see, it's technically not completely "yours" anymore. Everyone is going to see things in it that you didn't as the creator, and thus each person has their own special piece of this media interpreted in their minds, and you have yours.
As a creator you also have to try and consider ways the audience might interpret your work differently from you. I usually use the game Detroit: Become Human as an example, as that game borrows a lot of elements from the Real World American Civil Rights movement, but using robots instead of People of Color. I personally felt like the game was just using a real world event cleverly as inspiration for a potential Machine-Uprising, but I've seen some people interpret the metaphor as saying that Black People are Robots xP
Obviously, I don't think the writers for that game intended for that to be the message, but its a genuine interpretation of the story that seemingly wasn't considered
Visual art school same! I think it’s a way to try to defend/ rationalize why you have to pay so much money to go to art school and why artists have value for society. You can’t just paint flowers anymore.
I'm really tired and fed up with people using themes as an excuse to defend a terrible movie from harsh, justified criticism. Themes are not what make a good movie. Good writing is what makes a good movie. Themes should enrich the story, not act as a crutch for it, because at the end of the day, the script is the heart of the project; and if your script doesn't have an engaging story, interesting concepts and well written characters, it doesn't matter what the themes are, your movie is still gonna suck. I've had so many people jumping down my throat for hating movies like the Sequel Trilogy, Godzilla KOTM and Cruella (2021) and telling me that I JuST DoN'T GeT tHeSe MoViEs, and it really infuriates me. When did plot and characters get pushed aside in favor of muh themes?
I remember hearing about this thing called "The Blue Curtain effect" and I was like Hmm. What's this? Basically, it goes:
'The curtains in the living room were a pale shade of blue.'
Your English teacher: "The blue curtains represent the author's sadness and struggles through life."
Author of book: "The curtains were just fucking blue."
Moral of story: Don't read too deep into every little thing.
Yeah, that's bullshit. You can never read too deeply into anything, but being able to pick out from that what is relevant, that's called intelligence. You are promoting dumbness.
This is exactly what Barry Hines, the author of A Kestrel for a Knave said once. There’s a part of the book where the main character bets on a horse with a certain name, and for years school teachers told students that the horses’ name had a special meaning to the character and the story, when in fact Hines just liked the sound of the name and didn’t think twice about it.
Wish someone could of told my high school art and English teacher, oh wait I did! And they hated it😂
Just because the author didn’t ascribe a meaning to the color of the curtains or what a particular name means, doesn’t mean that the reader is wrong to take meaning from them. Art is after all a subjective experience.
@John Galt Funny that, "Bucko". First time someone termed me that (just quite recently!) was when I told a very old friend of mine (who has a PhD in Pyschology) that she had fallen for a cult by promoting 'The Squad' on social media. And she also accused me of "over thinking" the issue. So, is "Bucko" the latest radical left slur, or are those curtains blue? XD
"The Predator represents man's inherent fear of female sexuality..."
I knew _exactly_ what the next line would be before it happened. And I still laughed out loud. 🤣
Really? I saw predator a few times and that head thing never crossed my mind, I guess Im still too inocent lmao
Get a brain! This is just a stupid sci-fi popcorn entertainment movie
@@comradesam3382 You have to be the exception. It’s even a line in Predator 2.
@@JohnSmith-eo5sp Strange reply that doesn’t seem to apply to my comment at all.
Get a brain? Are you in middle school or something?
Besides, what does supposedly lacking in intelligence even have to do with a common thought-independently had by a huge amount of people-and predicting that thought as the source of an impending punchline?
Of course it’s a stupid popcorn flick and there aren’t any *serious* people who delve into the psychology of fans of the series. THAT’S WHAT MAKES DRINKER’S JOKE...A JOKE. Get a brain, indeed.
The Predator wanted to kill Arnie because Arnie was a child molester. I get it now :D
Some folks just don't understand drunk thinking. I guess they aren't familiar with the old Latin saying, "in vino veritas." Some people claim to drive better when they're drunk. The Critical Drinker critiques movies better when he's drunk. So far, admittedly just stumbling onto this channel, I find his reviews pretty spot on, refreshing, and fucking funny as shit, and I'm stone sober...(at this present moment).
I read that in the drinkers voice
I like that you added "at this present moment"
Themes in stories are very important. However, the primary thing is a good story. From the story, ideas naturally emerge. The validity of what you think is a theme is measured by how much the story supports it.
i watched the movie just to see if it was actually that bad. not sure if it was though cause i slept through 70% of the movie.
A bad attention span ruined by cellphones and clickbaity youtube videos isnt a good meter for movie criticisms
@@fattyjaybird7505 no but a video with accurate points showing the flaws in said movie is valid criticism
And the other 30% was the intro and end credits I bet.
Dr. Drake Ramoray you saw more of it than I did. I slept through 110% of it. How does that math work? Idk.
This comment gets better if you actually read it in Joey's voice, because he'd be 100% serious about it.
"Mein Kompf wasn't a bad book. You just didn't understand the underlying themes and allegorical representations within the writing."
Lol
"Birth of a nation isn't a racist piece of shit film. See you have to understand the context and themes of portraying African Americans as animals and the Klan as this noble non domestic terrorist group fighting the good fight!"
The themes are literally the primary reason for why birth of a nation is bad
I probably would if it were American
@@colegalbraith2231 he is being sarcastic
I liked midsommar, mostly because it was sunshine and flowers in a “horror”. That’s unique enough for me these days. 😅
Critical Drinker you’ve put virtually all of my opinions perfectly well in your videos, only I’ve never been able to explain them because of my lack of film construction understanding. I’ve had so many arguments about why movies or tv shows are bad and all I ever got back were stupid explanations of how the plot worked to counter my views. It’s so satisfying to hear you break down the qualities of movies and expose the carefully hidden mistakes that directors try to take away from your view. I’m seriously binging all of your videos rn. Cheers mate
"...nah- it'll be fine...
This has become my favourite sentence...
I love how that sounds with his accent!! 👍🏻😂
mine is "i woke up in a cell"
Guy Inkognito “GO AWAY NOW!”
why? DON’T KNOW
Guy Inkognito what can go wrong?
I remember themes from my college days English Literature classes. I admit that i tended to write book reports at first. Then I discovered the way to get better grades. Write about the "themes". Didn't matter much if i pulled the themes out of my a** as long as I could ramble about imaginary symbology and deeper meanings. Given the state of moral relativism and ambiguity, i think the professors thought they couldn't tell me i was wrong in any of my analysis. Hence, decent grades. That was 30 years ago. I imagine it is far worse these days.
Actually your exactly wrong, nowadays teachers/and professors want your ideas on the themes of the story to align with theirs so they can brainwash you. There’s a reason Summer Reading books are mandatory and from a selected list. I’ve been marked down for having different interpretations of fiction all the time because it didn’t align with the curriculum.
@@olivercrespo2329 Well...i did go to school in the relatively unbrainwashed days, about 35 years ago.
In my country its opposite if there is a story , you have to first learn the authors pov and then you have to write a essay of your own , its called critical analysis and if the teacher finds out your pov essay matching with someone else
kiss your grades goodbye, causethey would literally fail you.
@@iguideotherstoatreasureica3635 Remember, I didn't say that what was acceptable to my teachers was the right way to do it. They were lazy and morally relative. I didn't really realize the crappy "education" I was getting.
And my theater class I had to take is my elective we had to critique and review plays, my first one of 4 was basically a template for the rest and got nearly full marks spouting off thematic nonsense vaguely pretaining even in the play I fell asleep in
Fight the hype, movies are supposed to be entertainment, not platforms. People are just looking to make statements where there was no statements being made. The "imaginary glass ceiling" is spot on. Love your stuff.
When I was studying literature 30 years ago, we talked about different theories of criticism. I always hated what I called the -Ism Theories. These critics hold a particular socio-political belief system close to heart and view every literary (or cinematic) work through the prism of that belief. Works are then judged on whether or not they support or oppose that belief, regardless of whether or not that belief is remotely relevant to the work at hand. Artistic merit is irrelevant to them. Works that support their belief (in the reviewer's opinion) are good, while those that don't are bad.
I personally believe this critical theory is intellectually void. It is evidence of a person who is unwilling to believe that there is anything to learn from the expressions and experiences of another person.
That’s exactly how it works. Hollywood is an occult organization. This is why any movies pushing their agendas is praised.
Then they have little awards to give one another as they pretend they are the worlds last hope and it’s rulers.
That make alot of sense. What the movie is about shouldn't define if it's a good movie or not.
Studied literature and can still write "I personally believe"
Themes should not be developed at the expense of the story. Hitchcock said it best, "We try to tell a good story and develop a hefty plot. Themes emerge as we go along."
Wrong quote.
Use "..." if you leave stuff out.
The quote was:
"We try to tell a good story and develop a hefty plot. As for the themes - they emerge as we go along."
in: Spellbound by Beauty: Alfred Hitchcock and His Leading Ladies
by: Donald Spoto | 21.12.2012
Page 47
@@nyChannel09 🤓
You don't make a good story without intending to communicate _something._
@@seg162 i disagree with this, but I do respect your opinion. Tolkien (writer of Lord of the Rings), has been quoted many times, as specifically not a tale for allegory, or deeper meaning, yet it is considered one of the best stories ever written
@@seg162 Yeah, but it's not a matter of what you communicate, but how you communicate it.
I thought "themes" were the music played at either end of a film...
Actually musical themes are played throughout movies. It is basically any snippet of music used to represent a character or action. They are similar to leitmotifs.
That’s a Theme song
A theme is a recurring subject in- a work of art, painting, novel, poem, speech, movie, piece of music....
Funny how none of you are up on irony or sarcasm tho 🙄
@@smorris12 Irony is very hard, if not impossible to pick up via written messages 🙄
The Shining is one of my all time favourite psychological horror films. Nicholson nails the slow decent into madness and I like how the horror is subtle and slow not fast jump scares, it pulls you into the horror slowly at times and you have no choice but to witness it at Jack’s pace.
The scene with the lady in the tub for example, the film takes you with Jack into the room and switches between POV shots and his uneasy expression and like him you don’t want to be in there but the pull is too strong so you have no choice. Then once Kubrick has you in there he then makes you witness the most grotesque scene in the whole film and it makes you massively squirm because he not only makes it sensual he makes you watch it slowly. Then again Jack doesn’t just run for it once he’s realised what’s happening, he’s so uneasy and shocked at the situation he moves out slowly. Kubrick does that because he wants you to be part of that horrible experience for as long as possible
A really well-written psychological horror that I nonetheless hate is current reality.
I don't have a good ability to talk about what I think and what I feel. Your videos put in words exactly why I do or don't like movies. You've got a new subscriber, who's about to learn how to use arguments in conversations about movies. Thank you.
Used to be the theme was the cherry on top. Not the ice cream like some people try to convince you nowadays.
E;R?
@@josephbilderback4549 That guy is awesome
@Autismo his newest one about Jordan Peele's Us. The quote is slightly different though
Patches O'Houlihan well said
Themes can ruin a movies, alot lately actually. Shoving it down your throat so to speak.
thanks to this channel: I've seen Luke drinking that milk more times than any other Star Wars Scene.
ONLY time(s) I've enjoyed that scene!!!!!!!
F-ZERO And my acid reflux wakes up every time I see it. Then I see Jon Snow and the “Naaaaa.... It’ll be fine.” calms it down again. It’s like throwing up and feeling better without the messy stomach contents all over my phone.
I strongly suggest watching MauLer's analysis of the latest Star Wars movies, you won't be disappointed.
@@XmarkedSpot Now THERE'S a trilogy!!
I've seen that clip the most thanks to MauLer and his Unbridled Rage "WTF?!" moments
I've always been fascinated how people can come up with so many interpretations for the same movie/series.
However, just because they say that the movie/series it's about what THEY see, doesn't mean the movie/series it's ACTUALLY about what THEY see, unless explicitly stated by the people behind that movie/series.
Too many times i've seen people discussing over a movie or a series about its "message" due to how people see things differently from one to another, even when said "message" seemed obvious at first, but at the end, it really wasn't.
We all see things differently, sometimes also from what they really are.
Some may argue it's to just look smart in the eyes of others, like: "ha! I get it and you don't, you baby! Me smart and you dumb", some may think it's as a result of some people being delusional and to compensate, they only see what they want and they treat their own opinions/take on the movie/series as an absolute fact, only to feel better about themselves, but who really knows, right?
I regularly disagree with the Drinker’s opinions, however I ALWAYS thoroughly enjoy hearing them. That’s because his critiques are based on well thought out ideas and intelligent questions. Not to mention his brilliant sense of humour. So even when I disagree I can still appreciate the reasons behind his conclusions and the hilarious way in which he articulates them.
Much love for the drinker
Someone gets it here!
Now, you sir, are a good example for the argument I always make. You don't have to enjoy something you think is good, or say something is good just because you enjoy it. It's that simple yet people always want it either at the one end of the spectrum or the other. You disagree with the drinker, yet you also enjoy his work. And so you have my respect.
I actually like films to have a deeper meaning or some core theme, but they have to be competent both cinematographically and narativelly otherwise it is just like trying to send a mesage by telegraph without knowing the morse code...
@@revolverswitch "well, if that's all you can get from modernism, ok." He said cynically.
@@revolverswitch I was being sarcastic and agreeing with you.
Themes and meanings are but a part of writing, but they are not the only part.
@EmtronVenger well ,it was subtle. Should I add "he said cynically "at the end😏. Cause I meant cynically.
@@revolverswitch HA! Many smileys to you. And thanks for playing!
"Midsummer is an alegory for Afghanistan"
There's no way he could...
*explains in a sensible fashion
*NO! It can't be true!*
It could be (and has been) argued that the Charles Bronson movie Chato's Land is an allegory for the Vietnam War, which was in progress at the time. A group of arrogant white men pursue a Navajo into the desert for killing a racist sheriff, only to find that they're now in his element, and he's stalking them. The hunters have become the hunted, and their egos won't let them retreat, so they can do nothing as they're simply picked off one by one.
OTOH, Midsommar looks like a rip-off of the original Wicker Man, with none of the unintentional humor that made the remake so funny.
@@graemesmith6721 OOOh, Walt Whitman ova' here! Well, I guess the execution of an idea is the most important element of any stories...
Love the "Moving on" with the shot of Jack in the snow, I think you got your point across nicely and I agree about Midsommer.
Millions and millions of thanks for your acerbic, bulls-eye reviews! And for the innumerable times you made me laugh till I cried. Splendid work!
About "The shining":
after a first screening, Stephen King looks at Kubrick and says: "This movie was terrible."
Kubrick replies: "Yes, not that your book was much better."
@Tracchofyre Sounds familiar...
@Tracchofyre King is a good writer but he's generally terrible when he's trying to approach to any other media. His tv version of the Shining was horrible, the original Pet Sematery was a joke (he doesn't get what works and what not in an horror film) and he also praised the 8th season of Got, which is an unforgivable sin.
@Kyros Droztamyr Thank you expert.
@jiggus figgus King is (or rather, was) a horror novelist that should have been a fantasy writer instead.
I watched some of the old Stephen King movies and yeah, most of them are weird but forgetable. And for Kubrick. He has great visuals, but his style isn't for me. The plot is very dragging some of the stuff did not age well (like these 20 or so minutes of people in ape suits at the start of 2001). I tried watching 2001 and the shining and I was not engaged or entertained at all. And I do like older and slower paced movies like the original the thing, event horizon or the witch (a newer movie).
"He's been writing for Buzzfeed the whole time" lmao. not for long.
Buzzfeed left Australia *
@@edouard9687 and the UK. But it'll be gone soon.
"Why don't you become a programmer?" Anybody recall this? lol
@@mokibomo Learn to code!
😂👌
He was about to get the ax! 🥸
Themes can be guide posts, a source of inspiration of what to explore in a story, it can lift up a truly good movie to excellence but it can't make a bad movie good no matter how "deep" and "clever" the thematic elements are it won't make inherent flaw's of a movie go away...
"Ah shit he's been writing for BuzzFeed the whole time!" Aaaaaand I'm dead.
From a master storyteller: “I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.”
J.R.R. Tolkien
Theme is not the same as allegory. Mom is an allegory to the bible, but it has a lot of themes. I too share tolkien's view on the issue, but thist citation is misrepresentative of his intentions while writting that prelude to the LOTR collection.
Wow!! All from an author who wrote about dark forces assembling that endangered the world while the Nazis rose to power & the world was beginning to fear communism. Yes how could anyone ever thing there were allegories in his writing? Lol 😂
@@r.williamcomm7693 that citation is exactly about this topic. He wrote It to deny the fact that LOTR is an allegory for ww 2.
Gabriel Charrua Exactly! I’ve wondered whether he denied the allegory to protect from critics of the day dismissing his work as “formulaic” or propaganda or if he genuinely meant that it was all just a story or even just being tiresome of answering questions about deeper meaning like Lucas saying that Star Wars was just a fun “space cowboy” movie. I’m honestly not sure & not being facetious. Do you know the answer?
@@r.williamcomm7693 no Idea my dude, would kill to know for sure, i Just know it's a debate. Ideas can infiltrate writting without being a outright allegory though.
Midsommar is "The War on Afghanistan"
Paul blart is "anti consumerism"
Drinker you are hilarious 🤣😂😍😂🤣😅
Jack Of Hearts but it probably isn’t. You can’t just assume an interpretation is correct because a couple Therese correlate. And if the writing is good the theme shouldn’t be buried under too much metaphor.
You know what, fuck it, the _Midsommar_ Afghanistan theory is totally correct if anyone asks.
@@FourOf92000 But it really isn't if actually know anything about Afghanistan's history and the conflict
@@xLeeroycranex So some specific elements were lost in translation. Your point was?
@@FourOf92000 You said it was totally correct when it wasn't. Even Drinker used it as an example of something ridiculous. Not trying to call you out or anything but just sayin.
I highly agree with the examples given (and similar examples) that you cannot use theme to justify a bad movie. Plot, story structure, and characters (including their consistency) is highly important. However, I do believe that there are rare films where theme does add and contribute significant amounts to the film. The main movie I think of is V for Vendetta which, in addition to having an amazing plot and characters, also explores revolution and the differences between ideas and the men (and women) who strive for them.
Good Art is when you can see the years of hard work by craftsman making it enjoyable. Great art transcends the medium, creating layers expression and enjoyment both in terms of the art itself and the intended effect on the beholder.
In simplified terms, it's like pizza. Without dough, it's a salad. Without toppings it's just bread sticks. Without sauce, it's just flatbread. All elements must be present to have pizza. Then you must make each element great and proportioned to have great pizza.
Airplane! also dealt with complex themes like crisis management, buried/repressed memories and love lost.
Don't forget self- doubt and redemption :D
Airplane is a good movie.. Plays, its funny as hell
It helped me deal with my drinking problem 😂
Super Duty 455 And about how little Bobby likes Gladiator movies.
@@BigDaddy_MRI "my dad says you don't hustle"
I'd rather join a mysterious Swedish death cult than watch Midsommar again
I'd rather join a Danish counterprotest to that Swedish death cult.
Never saw it. I imagine criticaldrinker’s review was better than the movie.
Keen James Of this, I agree wholeheartedly.
This guy's review of it saved me from two hours of wanting to swallow my tongue.
🤣🤣🤣
Woohoo! This is your best video essay yet, Drinker! I always learn something from your keen observations.
When reviews are more interesting and entertaining than the movies are themselves then life has turned a bit to postmodern
After watching several, more positive reviews of ‘Midsommer’ and reading the attached comments I was disturbed by the seemingly unanimous attitude that the main characters’ boyfriend died a well deserved death. Like people just casually mention in passing that it just goes without saying burning him to death was the right thing to do and not a single person to object.
Gives some insight into where the current political mindset is..... f!$&@king creepy.
oh no! thats horrible! poor thing
Right? Like there's a difference between willing going to party where you know there will be alcohol and people you can fuck other than your significant other. But you still drink knowing there's a good chance you can be persuaded easily. In the movies case? The mother fucker was drugged unwillingly lmao but teenage girls and older feminists are applauding his death. Fucking weird.
I had that argument with someone in the comments of another review of Midsommar - a woman there essentially said he was a pig and got exactly what he deserved, we went back and forth for a while until I asked her if a female character had been drugged, raped and burned alive if she would have deserved it... she disappeared at that point.
@@hypnodelica ofcourse she disappeared, that bitch is a sniveling little rat
Or like teeth she mutilates one guy for just bragging about banging her to his friend, and people are fine with it
just for those that want to conduct scientific research, the cavewoman/cavegirl in a bikini is Raquel Welch from the 1966 movie "One Million Years BC"
@@tranquilwaters917 you matured fast.
Staying with the topic at hand, I think she had two perfect great themes.
Thanks, I am loath to "ask for a friend".
"Research"
Now I have to go and watch your review of Midsommar.
I am really glad u brought this up
It seems that their are certain people who do not like movie reviewers on youtube bcoz they do not talk about form of film or filmmaking and if they dont talk abt it then they are not good reviewers
“It doesn’t matter how smart you are, f you don’t use common sense.” Dr. Thomas Sowell.
common sense ... no longer common these days.
Common sense can be wrong though
I do think a movie can be both thematically satisfying AND a well-structured masterpiece.
However for every "Fight Club" there's gonna be a "Mother" to fuck that up.
At the end of the day, I think the Drinker's sums it up best: **"idea's only as good as the execution,"** god damn, well said.
I didnt expect to find you here.
No kidding! I get sick of hearing people give crap a free pass just because they spotted some underlining meaning. Fine, it's fine that some theme is there, but the rest of it and the delivery of that theme were done crappy, and that makes the whole thing crappy as a result.
Ah Fight Club. Even though I knew the twist before seeing it, I was completely in awe after seeing it. Now that’s, how you execute meh themes.
@Scion of Madness I agree with you 100% man
Fight club is one of the most over rated movies I hear about all the time. It was terrible. I couldn't even sit through the whole thing.
Definitely one of his best reviews, apparently movies being about ideas and themes means it's good
A movie is like a house. The story, characters and dialogue are the walls and foundation; the themes are just nice decoration. If you only care about the themes you just end with a nice looking pile of rubble.
I've always argued that theme is just the icing on the cake. Imagine making a cake without flour and sugar then add green beans and dirty underwear in order to "subvert expectations" then expect audiences to be okay with it just because you put a nice homemade cream cheese icing on it.
GUARANTEED 85+% CRITICAL APPROVAL ON ROTTEN TOMATOES!
Theme is where you start. What will this story be about? Them you write the story. It's either a good story, a mediocre one, or a bad one. None of that has any bearing on what theme it was about.
8:27 “There is nothing except their own stupidity preventing the characters from escaping their isolated location, when it would clearly make sense to do so.” This sums up a good portion of flawed plots.
If you pick at A scab long enough, soon you will get to the sore .
And damn near every horror movie ever made
Stupidity of characters and dumb luck beeing the only things that keep the plot together always pisses me off super hard. Is it really so hard to find someone who isn't mentally retarded to write the script?
This was absolutely needed. Thank you Drinker, your blurred, drunken views bring the clarity the world needs right now to see through the bullshit that is using themes as excuses/reasons to explain away horribly constructed and executed films.
When I tried to build my own Gin Still, genius writing and delivery as always! The Drinker, bringing the entertainment value to 11 out of 10 as usual!!!
This should be required viewing for all youtube/entertainment journal online reviewers. I saw this video when it came out and I agreed in the abstract, but after listening to a few positive reviews (apologetics really) for shite movies, it really hit home - it pithily explained the frustration I felt with those reviews.
apologetics, a term so underused even spell check doesn't know what the hell it is
Drinker
Annihilation is a movie that asks
Nay begs for your reviewing skills
Truly, it begs
YES!
I loved Annihilation (in my opinion an excellent adaptation of The Color Out of Space), but I'd love even more to hear the Drinker's take on it.
Der Rikmeister
It would be a most excellent review, one way or another
@@613harbinger316 I liked it too. I expected an absolute clusterfuck after so many people bashing it, but it was an enjoyable adaptation of that story. The very ending was a bit hamfisted though.
It was the worst movie I've seen all year and it's unfortunate that Portman was a part of that disaster.
I’m addicted to these reviews, even when I haven’t seen the films being reviewed. They always make me laugh and if the world wasn’t in thrall to wokeness and it’s accompanying political correctness I’m sure the critical drinker would have been snapped up for a regular movie show on tv by now.
This is my 2nd time watching this video (TH-cam algorithm pushing The Drinker - not mad about that). It was well worth another watch. Keep dropping those pearls of wisdom, you loquacious hypothesizer.
No, you don't understand, Drinker. You didn't like Midsommer because it suberted your expectations, and we all know "subverting expectations" is two things:
1) more important than storytelling, character development or plot structure and
2) a phrase that has never been said throughout the entirety of human history until the release of The Last Jedi as much as it was said a couple of months _after_ its release.
TvTropes kept doing shit like this constantly.
The idea that has eroded the arts in my life time is that the intended message, the ideology or politics of a work of art is the key to it rather than the execution or the nature of how you really experience it. This is how you get praise for an ugly or silly contemporary work of art or a schlock pop cinema film that represents something "important", with the weight of that intended message making up most of it. Then, if you criticize it, you are necessarily knocking down that idea and are a terrible person. If often feels like artists use this to cheaply boost their prestige versus earn it with well thought effort, and/or insulate themselves from criticism. These are adults though, and not your school age child showing you their art project. We don't have to pat them on the head and tell them it's good because they meant well and we can't hurt their feelings. These are paid adult, professional artists who need to have standards when it comes to the execution of their craft. I go to see a movie to experience it as it plays out and tells an engaging story, and not sit through garbage to rationalize it later via theme or political message. This carries into life: I am a physician. I have good intentions and mean well when I set out to do my work, but if I execute it sloppily then it is important to criticize that.
Pretty much this. The problem imo stems from there being so many subsidies for artists these days. Back in the days of Shakespeare or Goethe (to just name two big playwrights), artists had to actually earn their keep somehow. If you were good, people knew your name because they actually came and watched your work. But today, you can be an "artist" as soon as some jury of paid officers agree to your proposal for a grant. This way we keep alive irrelevant, dead art forms as well as feed "artists" who wouldn't recognise a piece of art if you hit them over the head with it, thusly creating a class of pseudo-intellectuals who think themselves superior to actually successful artists with large fandoms on the grounds of those people not getting their abstract ideas. But it's not that we don't get it, we just can't be bothered with it.
Have you considered it's a money laundering scam?
Clarey and Volkbrecht, I am copying your text for future use in offline discussions. Thank you for the insights.
Pretty much dead-on. Can't tell you how many times I heard the only thing that mattered about fine art was the idea--the execution was secondary. I participated in many, many critiques. I soon began to loathe the experience. Everyone vomiting a turgid exegesis about their own work--something along the lines of: "This shadow (aka some vague, nondescript blob, patch, or dent) represents my emotionally absent father, and how his emotional abandonment denied me agency, and this........................................." or some such twaddle. Verbal diarrhea about a visual media. I finally told someone that if they had to explain that much they needed to study writing or film.
After a while I refused to talk about or explain my work during critiques.
@@BY-bj6ic I used to really like abstract art. And I’m pretty sure the main reason was because it seemed like it would be easier to learn how to do and create but it could be ‘argued’ to be something brilliant! Now that I’m older, I kinda resent it, I think. It feels cheap and unearned praise. Because art engaging in more realism doesn’t seem to have the same kinda of respect it used to when it’s FAR more difficult to master.
This was immensely entertaining and spot on. You're a hero Sir👍🏼😁
Okay, the cloud, added with the Drinker's pondering face, into Luke Skywalker's "certain point of view" statement - dude. Whoa.
This has been unexpectedly mulling around based on the extremely dense montage of images but - the Drinker has seen - a lot - of movies (if these carefully structured compilations are any indication. )
Just damn incredible. Paying homage to you, sir.
Freud: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
Critics: BUT MUH THEMES!
@@cakepastawhey5095 aldo Freud: "sometimes the cigar is just a cigar. Otherwise, it's a dick."
"...and sometimes it's a big brown dick!"
-George Carlin
You do realize that Freud is like the poster child for reading really far into a into a work of art’s hidden themes and meanings, right? One of the things he’s most famous for is arguing that Hamlet’s behavior can be explained by his subconscious sexual desire for his mother.
@@alext7621 That's exactly why it's significant for him to say that sometimes one is just reading too far into something.
@@jacksonpercy8044 You're right; it depends on how well one is able to explicate the themes and meanings one finds in a text. My point is that Freud probably delved deeper into the hidden meanings of texts than any of the critics the OP is lambasting have ever done. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but sometimes a cigar is more than a cigar.
Themes are literally just what a film is TRYING to say. Whether or not it actually manages to say that determines if it's a good film or not.
Incorporating bits of input from other commenters, I would compare “themes” in a movie’s story to “nutrients” in a meal. If I were to describe my take in greater detail...
Themes are often what allow a story to resonate with the audience and be substantive to experience. However, a meal can have all the nutrients in the world and still be poorly cooked or put together. If the meal is horribly done, to the point where people cannot enjoy consuming it in the first place, then its nutritional value becomes almost moot. At best, it might become the equivalent to a tasteless multi-vitamin pill, which is not exactly a shining example of culinary arts. Plus, if the “meal” is prepared in a way that destroys the “nutrients” within or mixes it with “toxins” (such as “Unfortunate Implications” or a “Broken Aesop”, in the words of TV Tropes), then that especially defeats the purpose of said “nutrients” being there.
On the other hand, we can have dessert foods like an ice cream sundae, chocolate cake, or pie, that contain barely any nutrients at all. But desserts still have merit in being excellently crafted, are harmless in a vacuum, and offer a fun/relaxing way to pass the time or hand out with others. Likewise, many films can be simple works of art, that do not challenge the audience with anything deep or complex, yet are very well-crafted in their own right. A connoisseur of film and food can appreciate those, while also consuming the stuff with more depth/nutrition, so as not to miss out on what those offer.
I agree completely but doing that means I have to revise my dim view of that text book in Dead Poet’s Society. The one that starts something like ‘the greatness of a work of literature is a function of the importance of the themes it addresses and the success of it’s execution’. Robin Williams asks them to tear that page out. I kind of sympathised completely at the time. Maybe though there’s something to it. It’s not the last word on the subject but it can’t just be ignored.
Boomers should've beaten their kids more, instead of giving them participation medals. These cultural marxists think no movie is a bad movie, you just don't get it. Unless it promotes some far right wing ideas like freedom, capitalism and science. Then it's a bad movie and it needs to be turned into a book so we can burn it.
Themes today are just political agenda and identity politics so most movies execute it well by casting the right amount of each race and the right amount of subversive, non-traditional rolls. The plot doesn't really matter at all.
I'd go a step further: The media not only needs to competently say what it's trying to say, it also has to be worth saying in the first place. A film that unambiguously states "water is wet" may be lauded for its competency, but few would call it a "good" movie.
Kinda why people shit on remakes/remasters too. In many cases, the original is clear as day - its message doesn't need to be retold. In a vacuum these remakes might be considered great, but if there's no point to their existence then they're ignored/derided/forgotten.
It’s perfectly fine to like something despite its flaws. I love Dune 1984 and Your Name, they’re two of my all time favorite movies despite not being anywhere as good as they could have been.
It’s also ok to dislike things even if they’re solid. I think Bojack Horseman is one of the best written shows ever put on the air, and I think Love Simon was a good exploration of a gay high school kid’s experiences. However Bojack’s cynical demeanor rubs me the wrong way and I couldn’t stand Love Simon because I thought it was melodramatic as hell.
People have different tastes and that’s ok. Like what you like and hate what you hate. It’s totally normal and you’re not a bad person either way.
However, if you’re trying to police others’ opinion, that’s where I take issue. If you’re trying to shut down criticism of a film’s objective flaws by saying the critic “didn’t get it” then that’s just childish and petty. And if you’re trying to destroy someone’s enjoyment of a film despite it’s flaws because “they’re not mature enough to appreciate real art” that’s also childish and petty.
Just let people enjoy/hate things in peace.
This video maybe two years old, but I have to say I love it. Thank you, Drinker.
An idea is only as good as its execution - that is a real gem. I have been repeating this consistently and it always manages to fall on deaf ears or worse - pompous ones. Intentions/ideas alone are not enough, they can't make up for a bad execution.
I haven't seen the Star Wars prequels since they came out, but hearing the story told through various TH-cam videos makes it sound really well thought out and very good, while the movies themselves are regularly talked about as terrible.
@@Boyzby Well they are simply not terrible. They are at worst, decent, and then called terrible because decent is a massive step down from the Original Trilogy. In general their issues can be summed up with a few bad things. Too much time in boring senate meetings, awkward dialogue between Anakin and Padme, and an unserious character that is too central to the plot (Jar Jar Binks) and detracts from the otherwise serious tone. They still have some of the most fantastic scenes in all of cinema including probably the greatest fight scene of all time in Anakin vs Obi-Wan, a ton of really cool characters, even amongst those with limited screen time (Darth Maul gets a huge shoutout for a character with 1 speaking line that still manages to be a hugely memorable villain), and as you mentioned before, a great story detailing the tragedy paved by a road of good intentions.
I would even argue in defense of the flaws, in that Jar Jar was funny to a lot of the kids who he was targeted for, it's just they were too young to write reviews, Anakin would never have learned social skills growing up as a slave then a Jedi, so it would make sense that he is really awkward, and the senate meetings being boring highlighted helped audiences identify with the main characters frustrations with the way the senates proceeded.
@@jaketerpening3284 i had more fun watching CSPAN than the actual in universe Senate meetings
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, why not hellish movies as well
Exactly this. I’ve seen so many brilliant ideas be just completely ruined because people do a terrible job of portraying them…
tl;dr
"It's not what a movie is about, but how it's about it." - Roger Ebert
Yeah, he was one of the few film critics I could respect intellectually. Not always agree with, but always respect.
How I miss good old Roger
How I miss good old intelligent criticism...
Excellent philosophy there
@jiggus figgus I can see where someone could have that reaction. He's one of the few film critics who, IMHO, really attempted to raise the standard of the writing and depth of analysis. As to his review of that film, I've not see the movie and so feel unequipped to comment on whether or not I agree with his reactions, but I did go read the review, and it seems to me he doesn't just pan the film but offers some reasoned opinions as to why he only gave it one star. For your perusal, should you be interested... www.rogerebert.com/reviews/blue-velvet-1986
Every one of your videos i watch make me value and enjoy the good movies out there even more, bravo mate!
You just delivered a Master Class in critique... Well done Sir... Well Done!
You see, you’re just not seeing the deeper themes of these criticisms.
Excelsior !!! Ah, you are not seeing the deeper themes of my comment either.
Am I sensing an allegory?
I found your precis on Paul Blart: Maul Cop to be very insightful. I will watch it again with renewed vigour.
@blackrave404 and he's not an unfunny fat fuck, but this generations Marlon Brando. We just have to look through everything that shows otherwise.
The amount of insightful commentary you weave throughout your videos that transcends your subject matter is incredible. I just found this channel last week and I cannot get enough. My favourite line in this one: 'You shouldn't allow your preoccupation about a movie's themes to cloud your judgment about its objective quality.' Crushed it, dude!
Best piece of work ever. So many underlying themes in this review!
Lesson #1: never do a critique sober
What If he drinks hard liquor instead of beer? Would the accent change?
@@SAM-ru4vx Dunno but if he drink Guinness he'll have an Irish accent
The story of my life is a slow-paced psychological thriller that deals with the following themes: a relationship breaking down. Betrayal by a significant other. The loss of mutual friends. Grief and sadness. Escape from a toxic relationship, and moving on.
I'm learning more about the nuts and bolts that go together to make a good movie by hanging with the drinker. But more importantly, presentations like this are brilliant and entertaining. Thanks for another package of good laughs and revealing commentary.
Exactly! Setting, characterization, plot, and theme -- they all have to work together. Even if a movie gets one or two "right," or does an interesting thing with that aspect of the story-telling, it doesn't excuse screwing up any of the other elements. All the thematic complexity subtlety in the world will not, cannot, redeem a plot whose structure is mostly holes and whose characters are paper-thin cut-outs.