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Last models I painted up were the Great Beast of Gorgoroth and Khamul of fell beast for my fell beast which I converted. FUCK

Jordan Y Here. A little bit to add. My list was for sure going to be Isengard no real inspiration from the GBHL. I always spam crossbows when I play Isengard (I think personally it’s optimal in this F5 world of this edition). I took the Bomb Team mainly as a hedge on the event I ran into Blinding Light and didn’t want all my shooting to be ruined. Ballista list essentially takes all Uruks with similar numbers (it’s generally a better list in my opinion) Game 1 vs Charles Charles got somewhat “diced”. I’m pretty sure I won almost every priority and then on almost every Heroic Move, I won the roll off. Also his one Shaman spent 3 Turns attempting to cast Shatter on Lurtz which was incredibly unlucky for him. Game 2 vs Richard Not much to add to your commentary. I did have a creative play to subvert the fact that Aragdir was my target by setting up a Heroic Combat with Gorolf into Malbeth which ultimately led to nothing in the end. Was a fun event overall. Was great to get a chance to play both Charles and Richard.

I do hope the new rulebook clarifies if broken is 50% dead (as the rules read) or 50%+1 as the community decided to play for reasons. 50%+1 benefits elite forces and hero lists unnecessariliy.

I will never again max the bows in isengard

Makes my blood boil aye. The worst marketing from GW "Hey let's put out an article with bad news only duuuuhhhh" proceeds to send there fan base into a panic. I think it would be OK if we knew what the road map was going to be and could see ohhhh look Gilgalad is getting a cool new profile and plastic mini in 2026 or something. But no haha just refinement of this specialist game to make room for dogshit 40k shit.

Is this the second coming of fans ignoring GW directives and just carry on playing 2nd edition. Or maybe just carry on with the legacy models if the rules set turns out to be a banger?

You should a most fun or most Unique lists from clash

I'm 100% coming back next year. Top 10 was nice to get after a not so great (in my opinion) day 1.

Holy cow we easily get to 100

Sarumannnnnnnnnnnnn #3 list player sounds like a cool guy

I’m a new player. I started with the basic battlehost boxes. They provide a solid baseline of what to expect and lets you build out from there. Sure there was decision paralysis at first, but that was before I got the battleforce boxes. Taking all this away is steering my decision away from things I was interested in like a Balin of Moria list for example.

Also, GW does not own the IP licences. It is possible that middle earth enterprise (belonging to Asmode and their evil mother company) and new line cinema have a huge say regarding what GW can produce. So they could have participated to the purge while anticipating new things that will be released in the future, linked to movie, tv show etc. Well I’d like it to be the case 😂

RIP Khand :(

I think we are all sad about losing figures we loved, I still miss not being able to go into a gaming shop and buy a box of plastics or a couple of blister packs. When finecast came in I got worried about the future and ordered all the metal figures I thought I would ever need, had another spending spree when the Hobbit rules period seemed to die and got worried about availability as everything seemed to be online.

I think that there will be cuts in the future. While I, as a TO, will let people play legacy profiles, I think they will just fade away naturally.

2/3 of my armies are all going away as well... I agree with the metal comment that they are probably taking out things they dont want to make anymore with that material my 5 cent theory is that they are going to release some of the legacy models under new names in the near future... kamul is gone and replaced with "Kamul the Deceiver (idk)" and have a new model we can spent money on :D grimbold is gone and replaced with "Grimbold defender of Rohan" and same as above Charles how far das a Gondor Bolt Thrower shoot :P?

Just please take a note, a lot of these models pushed to legacies actually look better than some of the new minis that are OVERPACKED with details. Old models have their soul and charm, they really valued painter for their skill. When painter could emphasize these minimalistic details old models had that meant doubled satisfaction (1 you painted your minis, 2 you really tried and managed to paint them to the highest standard available to yourself at that moment). Right now there are speedpaints, contrasts, minis are packed with details… let’s face it, you do not need any particular skillset or guide to paint such minis to the decent tabletop standard. Now, not skill or hard work on painting is valued - it is ease of getting into the hobby, and easy money to GW,l. And that’s all that matters

I think these profiles give us a hint of how things will work in the new edition. For instance, we've been asking for monster buffs, and here we're seeing that several special rules don't affect monsters. I presume this will be one of the advantages, where monster will be quite a strong keyword that will safeguard you from a lot of negative effects.

If we just don't accept this edition and keep on playing the way it is now, they have no power... they will try to sell their game destroying books and we won't buy it. They will either keep on losing money or make a step towards us. They need us waaaay more than we need those new rules

It is important to remember they are phasing out all the Lotr era fine cast models so possibly that is the reason for Mauhur and Groblog and Ashrak going away as well as the Knight of the White Tower and lots of the other stuff like King's Champion as well.

I just finished my full Far Harad army this year 😢

I tried to think in LL and so push into legacy all that can't fit in any... but even there, it makes no sens. I feel like there is more to go in legacy, but they just won't stop selling them for any reason. That way they can go slow on the backclash and have cool new stuff to anounce at the same time.

It's so strange that they brought back Erestor to the range for the Rise of Angmar Supplement and just a few weeks later he appears on the "removed to Legacy list".

Just deleting Far Harad and Khand is realy disgusting. Also removing some realy important characters like Erkenbrand is just dumb, nothing else. We loose a lot of characters and diversity with this "update" and thats just plain bad, there is no real arguement to provide any benefit for the players. Its ntohing else than profit maxing while shitting on the community.

I will never play in a tournament that doesn't allow legacies. This must be a community decision to give the finger to GW! Who's with me?

My prediction is that they're removing a lot of the evil men because they need to make room for something similar that might conflict with them. I mean, we know there's some Harad representation in the War of the Rohirrim, and if the way Tolkien media is going is to those fringe stories in the Tolkien world, then those evil men in the East are likely to feature, and GW would have to make sure they have accurate aesthetic and stuff. It's obviously speculation, but otherwise it just makes no sense axing them entirely, and the only other faction that got hit so hard is Dunland, and they did so for this precise reason.

Outside of khand and harad getting fully legacied, I dont think we can say much until we see list building now. Serpent horde could be rolled into legions with mordor and/or corsairs, so you will likely have a pure list, but have the ability to slap the models into other comps a lot easier now, and lists that look like they are losing diversity, will in the end have a larger pool of varied units. This encourages more purchases while still maintaining some form of list diversity. I really hope they do something for the ringwraiths though, they are all so cool, and them all hitting legacy makes me hope for generic wraith customizations or cannon wraiths in the near future.

Our group has armies that are significantly composed of profiles that GW has sent to legacy, including many of the overpriced Forgeworld resin heroes that they were happily selling until recently. The reasons they give for what is going to legacy etc are clearly not true given the amount of GW made up BS profiles that are remaining (Easterlings etc) vs profiles that WERE in the books / films getting deleted. No, this is GW deleting SKUs that aren’t selling well and occasionally the not in the books / movies might happen to fit. The game now looks to be driven by anime cartoon so we can look forward to be able to play dull cartoon inspired fantasy Vikings against yet more fantasy Vikings while the GW vampire sucks the life blood out of the game. We can continue to play the current version without any extra expense whatsoever and that’s what we intend to do. If there’s anything that looks outstanding in the new version, either rules or profiles wise, we’ll just house rule it in. Dumbing down all ITW tests to a straight 4+ doesn’t inspire much confidence on that front though. And GWs view of the customers that supported the game over the recent years by buying Khand and Harrad etc, contempt (screw you, tough). Hard pass!

My only hope is that non-hero monsters are actually good in this edition, so Cave Trolls, Mordor Trolls etc will compensate factions for having lost a boatload of heroes

I think you are right that this is the first round of many for Legacies. My guess re. The Angmar stuff would be that Gulavhar was intended to be in a MTO a year ago, when the supplement was meant to come out. Since Rise of Angmar got brought back, they didn’t feel they could send him straight to Legacies, despite Gulavhar being the epitome of a profile that SHOULD be in legacies (ancient metal OOP sculpt, made up GW nonsense lore, Angmar already having lots of options, etc)

My mordor armies are shot to hell 😅

Hahahahaahhahahahahha, 😢

I think they did a lot of choices based on reducing profile overlap. Mumak over siege beast, emphasize on heroes over generics and just trimm down the choices in big factions and general access to mounted units and magic. Make each profile remaining stand out. Then move away from metal and tmake room for future minis and expansions. There is a lot of bloat in mesbg so I am ok. What I am afraid of is that they are going to destroy they joy of list building in the new edition. Hope I am wrong. Sorry to all who see there favourite armies going in to legacy. That must suck.

36:53 “I’m a shit hobbyist” 😂😂😂😂😂 C’mon now. Haha.

As a local guess who it is but if things dont panout amazing i would suggest we create a community rulesset make it for the west coast bring back all the options

I love that they removed King's Champion. It's such a strong profile, but there are so many actual characters that are meh. Thorin, with Fili and Kili could take that role. And if you have king's champion already you have perfect models for banners and captain. Thoose are the kind of changes I like.

What a joke. GW is the worst

They removed a large group of models with impact hits.

What a toxic cancer GW is, absolutely horrendous

GW is so full of it. They contradict their own reasons by getting rid of characters like Erestor and Gildor and keeping nonsense models like the "kings of (insert random army name here)". Where were there "kings of (blank)" characters in the books and movies? 😅 And then if your not going remove silly and obviously made up GW characters, then why woukd you get rid of some of the coolest ones like named nazgul profiles? Blackshield goblins not okay for Moria but dragons and drakes, fill your boots! Depsite the fact that any LotR army shouldn't have access to dragons as Smaug was supposedly the last one... 😅 Also the simple fact that Easterlings are unscathed and full of made up profiles and also happened to be the highest selling army is just mor confirmation that GW is dictating based of profit to the rules writers, not based on game balance and integrity. And what is wrong with red and blue headphone guy? Hes eating the entire time. You cant do that any other time of the day?

I kind of wished the Halftrolls stayed and just moved into Serpendhorde. They are so unique and fit well. But you probably would have to make them a very limited choice (like one Halftroll per 150p)

RE: the WYSIWYG part, afaik the article specifically mentions characters, so I'd assume regular troops are still fine to take any wargear possible (unless every army gets specific bannermen profiles which sounds pretty unlikely to me tbh). Overall, there are definitely fewer models being removed than I expected, I honestly thought there'd be a full hard reset to whatever's in the movie, with maybe some book stuff being put in the third book. Still sad to see some of the classic models I remember looking over as a kid be removed (always thought those Castellans looked awesome) leave, but I'm huffing all the copium after GW's Twitter account said MtOs might still be on the table in the future. Definitely intending to keep legacy models alive in our local community, if only if that means I get to keep playing my boy Ashrak. As for the selection of models that are actually leaving, I gotta say it's hilarious that the only named Easterlings model that's actually leaving is the one that's actually in the books. RIP Khamul, hopefully you'll make it to one of the upcoming movies. It looks like they're mostly phasing out old finecast, though even then it's weird some of the Moria monsters will be sticking around. For the Isengard and Rohan losses, I'm guessing they're making space for War of the Rohirrim and a possible supplement that might update some of the LotR era heroes. The two rangers are odd as well, but maybe they'll show up in The Hunt for Gollum movies? I'm guessing GW are in the know about some of the upcoming project and obviously can't (or won't when they could, let's be honest) tell us so some of the decisions may come from there. Anyway, until we know the actual army lists, profiles, legacy rules and future releases I can't really say how good or bad any of this is. If MESBG will enter the 3-year cycle like GW's other games, it might be a lot less rosy because those legacy rules will be phased out way faster, but if they stick with the older edition schedule and fill in the gaps that are being created right now, this edition could be a real winner.

Taking away troop options on Armys with only 3-4 dirffent troops feel really bad (Moria and Serpendhorde really hurts losing these options. like Mordor still has lots of stuff so it is not that bad). I rather have complete armys going than making armys 50% legacy.

I’ve been in the game 2 years now and my two painted armies are Farharad and Khand. Absolutely heartbreaking

As someone who was on the fence about buying some things and certainly wanted to get around to buying one or two kits from the list in the future, its a blow but at the same time their will be less of that decision palarysis as an existing player

Azog has an option for heavy armour and the stone flail... but he only has a dismounted model featuring them. His mounted version has no option for either. Does that mean Azog can only take those while on foot or will they just remove it entirely lol? GW really stepped in it with this one. Unfortunately GW knows from experience that they can walk on their existing customers because they won't do much more than complain online. Even people who stop playing one GW game usually just end up playing another. It's still money in GW's pocket. I really don't get the impression that this edition is for "us", and more that they're getting ready to capitalize on the hype and fomo for all the upcoming lotr movies.

I'm choosing to still be optimistic about the new edition. My hope is that these factions that were pretty much wiped will be rebuilt with the War of the Rohirim characters. Which if I'm facing an army, I'd prefer to face actual characters, then a bunch of "no names".

Wasn't there supposed to be a book that would be for stuff that are not in the movies but are in the books? "Armies of ME" or something like that... Why the hell would they put characters like Gildor and Erestor who were clearly in the books in the "Legacies" dumpster instead of that book? This makes absolutely no sense and I am pissed off unless there's gonna be new plastic Gildor & Erestor models on the way like the way they've recently updated Elrond and Glorfindel but I doubt it. On another note, I don't know how they'll go around implementing the whole "Legendary Legionification of everything" but Rivendell in particular was in desperate need of some cheaper/lower tier heroes and Erestor and Gildor fit the bill nicely.

I play Far Harad and Khand, they're my largest collections... I'm going to make some toast in the bath tub

As someone who is currently playing "the old world", GW's release of the rank and file warhammer game. I'll let you know about Legacy armies in the old world. Currently, they move many books to Legacy armies, and their power levels vary quite a bit. Examples of this, Vampire Counts are considered top tier, but Skaven are considered one of the worst armies in the game. My suspicion with this is that they spent very little time on developing these army books so the balance is a wide range.