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@@lugs118 yep, there is still a very strong front end. Understeer on the higher downforce cars is difficult to enduce when driving unrealistically. When driving normal, I don't think one could accidentally go into understeer in these cars. The rear slip angle got improved a lot. I'd say it's a case were the rear feels like it's where it needs to be, but we need the front end bite to be weakened. The front refusing to lose grip will force the rear to become the limiting axle, resulting in a rear slidey feel. So it's a lot less, but I think it'd be even more reduced by a weaker front.

@@SuperslowRacing when I done multiplayer before the LFM thing, I had people wiping me out on purpose for very minor door rubbing. There was a good few guys doing retaliation hits too. I'll wait a little till LFM ban the initial inflow of idiots and then get on there properly. What you describe was like the early days of acc and LFM.

@@bhendrikabel ACC has the heaviest feeling cars out of any.

@@GSSimRacing that’s why i like them 😉

@@johnmann7o2 yeah I have seen some great VR videos. I think this is a big draw for AMS2. It looks amazing in vr.

@@paulcole interesting you feel like it's driving on ice. From my test here it feels like the cars are on rails. Very difficult to upset them and lose control. Did you see how I treated the GTP for example. 😂

@@ezpz4659 I've been considering going into vr.

@@DjinVR yeah I noticed their update. The video here was done on that patch. I recorded it about an hour before it hit TH-cam. The improvement is huge, I still think the front end is a touch too strong, especially on the higher downforce cars. Big step in the right direction.

Yes the new smaller tyre update has improved things again. I noticed it too!

@@pmacnz yeah for sure. It is really enjoyable to drive in the sim now. Very nice.

LMU is gaining a competitive online community. There will be leagues popping up and they've also added a subscription model for their own online championships. AMS2 has more tracks, cars and variety, but the player base is much less focused (mainly due to the choice of cars and tracks). LFM will maybe help with this. If you want a competitive online setup, then LMU seems the choice to make. If you like driving all different cars and less of a focus in online competition and leagues, the AMS2 is the way to go. Both are good, but I think LMU will be hyper focused on e sports too going forward. Based on what I like in racing (online competition and team events) LMU would get my pick. But be warned, it is in early access and still has a few teething issues, particularly on hardware running ANY sort of overclock or XMP ram profiles etc. Make sure your bios and stuff is all updated in order to keep the game stable. It's physics seem to hit cpu threads and ram quite hard and any overclock could be a problem. I had this issue until I updated my bios and loaded the default motherboard settings. Fixed my game crashes immediately.

@@GSSimRacingwow thank you, didn’t thought about getting a answer like this :). Really helped a lot

You're absolutely correct. The player volume for a game that had a lot of issues and not even 1 year out of release, the numbers are a reflection on how good it is overall. The changelogs on each release are huge and the community wishes tend to be implemented. Driver swaps are expected next release. This is still a major issue with AMS2, especially with IMSA and no ability to do team events....and AMS2 is out a long time. The point is, you have to judge games on different things. LMU is an e sport platform in the making. ACC will be on life support, AMS2 will be a Jack of all trades etc. Not one of them is perfect.

When we talk about "detail" in force feedback, we’re referring to the precision and clarity of the sensations transmitted through the wheel via the USB port and drivers. Texture Feedback: The ability to feel the surface of the road, whether it’s smooth asphalt or rough gravel. Dynamic Range: Capturing everything from subtle grip changes to sharp impacts. Instant Response: Quick, real-time reactions to your inputs and the car's behavior. This is where the like of iRacing suffers. Torque Precision: Delivering forces accurately and smoothly, without dead zones or inconsistencies. Signal Clarity: Clear feedback without unwanted mechanical noise or distortion. Sometimes a small interpolation can help or minimal damping.

@@GSSimRacing I appreciate the "Detailed" response :). It's spot-on. It also means we can also talk about overall detail or break it down. If I had to 'grade' LMU with a letter grade for each kind of detail....based more upon a hypercar/lmp2: 1 Texture Feedback. C (curbs get an A+ tho) 2 Dynamic Range D (missing subtle changes at low speed) 3 Instant Response A 4 Torque Precision B -- accurately - wouldn't say smoothly 5 Signal Clarity: A

Yes, what you are experiencing is the lower caster values. It is oddly normal. If you have ACC, do and fire up the old 488 GT3. In the setup of the car, lower the caster level to its lowest...there will be hardly any weight in the wheel and beyond a certain steering angle, the car will want to continue to turn. The reason I say use the 488 is that the car was built as a race car (almost) and shares geometry from such cars. Hypercars would also appears to have lower caster angles, given how the drive and feel. I am not dismissing your point, but there is potentially a reason as to why you are experiencing this. Try that little test in ACC and let me know how you find it and does it make sense.

@@GSSimRacing firing up ACC again means no VR for me (it's terrible -- I'm spoiled). But I'll take your word for it. However -- and this is the key point -- the people arguing that LMU is "most realistic!" and everything else is 'fake', are missing the point that 100% realism can actually be a detriment to the enjoyment of a simulation and even, ironically, its realism! Because the sim won't give us any feel in our backs as the car starts to slide. The wheel FFB is both realistic (in terms of load), and unrealistic (in terms of 'feeling slip' and road texture) because its job is to be a proxy information channel for where real information cannot be provided. Point is, even if LMU is "right" and pure and all those things, they NEED to add whatever FX are necessary to provide the extra information at those low speeds that we are deprived of in a sim. So yeah, they need to address this, even if it means being a little less 'pure'. Just my opinion.

@@SuperslowRacing yep, it is possible. But I also see the ffb output trace from the game. So this leaves driver and wheel setting as likely culprits. It is also possible people are just used to a certain feel and can't adapt. Some may also misjudged based on suspension geometry. And yes, people can't feel and I have to explain what I'm feeling. Hopefully I done a good job there. 👍

Yeah, the effort going in really is a testament to them. For this alone, I would like to see them succeed. I think they have made a great product, and they should feel a sense of pride.... considering the dumpster fire that MSG was.

@ and as of today it has a 10% discount on the steam winter sale :) first time they got a sale I think.

@@zeekot4064 yeah they're on a different BOP. The gtwc cars have higher power and apparently are allowed more aero parts. The engine and speed was more noticeable for sure.

Yeah latest 464 and lastest motor firmwares with that driver too.

I’m running INT 1 and in-game smoothing at 3 if I remember correctly on my CS DD+ with an otherwise neutral profile in the base like Gary. Feels great on my end. Latest driver and firmware.

@@jonasclementdk oke i will try that

There is minute graining if stopped or going slowly. Turn interpolation to between 1 and 3 (low as you can tolerate) and/or try the game smoothing too.

Thanks mate. Yeah I try to be as open and honest as possible. And if I can help anyone with issues then I can try to help out. I am just off a lobby a few minutes ago with my old ACC league buddies and there was no complaints about FFB etc. I do think some are driving hypercars and LMP cars and expecting them to have the same centering forces as the LMGT3 class. This is possible too.

@@dionp8164 Thanks for the insight. I actually saw a video of someone who changed a file for using the „old“ adjustmemts. Didn‘t try it yet. I will see if I can find it and post it here as an answer.

Reading this all i hear is ACC fanboy

@@zeekot4064 Reading your comment makes me feel that you don‘t understand anything.

@@dionp8164 YT does not let me post links. Search YT for: „Get better force feedback on Le Mans Ultimate with this trick“

@@Freddy_Merckx i wasnt talking to you so why are you replying ?

@@toyotaman182 well, I was trying to be indirect and take a slightly political approach. There goes that idea 😂

I don't think so. I leave most filters off on all sims and let the sim do the talking to me. But if people have bedded themselves in with certain settings in a certain game, then this is a manufactured lense - no the FFB as the game physics will give. This is maybe why, when I jump between sims, they all feel kinda similar. The difference is mainly in the nuance or amount of detail...but the detail itself is quite similar across the board, if this makes sense?

@GSSimRacing filters sure but im talking talking down to nm and or wheelspeed or slew rates or let's say frequency settings which some wheelbases have some dont. Sometimes some things should be changed. If you don't feel enough weight what do you do? You don't leave it the same you use more forces. Thats all I'm talking about is they won't touch a single thing.

@GSSimRacing please also remember fanatec is way way more consistent across titles then most wheelbases. Thats just a fact from my own experience. So wheelbases like simagic and simucube def are not.

look dude.. my G pro has like 4 setting to adjust.. what do you expect me to do🤣🤣🤣

I am planning to do that this week/weekend, once I get the LMU races I am involved in out of the way. I had driven it quite a lot in the beta before release and could notice a different handling model for sure...and the Lambo whistle noise from the front...amazing detail.

I drive with a DD+ and 2 bass shakers (below the seat and the pedals), not sure how it compares but without the shakers, my rig feels dead.

@@DjinVR I need to get some shakers...I have been researching this recently.

A proper wheel? I have a direct drive. Both gave very good detail in the FFB.

G Pro owner here. FIrst of all, you DO realize that LMU has NO TrueForce support. They are using DirectInput, same as for every wheel. They are getting zero benefit from the ultra high frequency physics engine input into the wheel they'd get with Trueforce, both for kinesthetic forces and various other cues. I've been talking with S397 AND Logitech about what it takes to get this implemented. I remain hopeful. Anyway, AS a G Pro user who has tried all manner of sim & wheel base combinations of settings, I'm still less than happy with LMU's FFB at lower speeds. But the GT3's are okay. It's the other classes that need serious help.

@@DjinVR I will likely add haptics to my Playseat Trophy, but latency is lowest with TrueForce. The haptics will add to the immersiveness and hopefully give extra info, but only if the latency is low.

When you say violently swing from side to side - did you remove your hands from the wheel? The car should not wobble and send the wheel out of control if your hands are on there. From reading, I assume that to get rid of the side-to-side oscillations, you may have put a bit of damping and friction over the wheelbase filter?

@@GSSimRacing I had both hands on the wheel. Also whenever I turned right, the wheel kept forcing to turn right more with increasing force, and same on the left side. Invert force feedback fixed that issue, but the feel from ffb was still very lacking and numb.

@@TzeiEm I wonder if you were in a Hypercar on cold tyres. It takes a good 5 laps to get them in the window. On cold tyres, hypercars in particular feel awful (as they probably should.). Just trying to rule out issues on your end.

@@GSSimRacing No, I was in the McLaren GT3

@@TzeiEm That seems very odd. Try resetting the FFB and if this doesn't sort it, perhaps a reinstall of the game...it doesn't sound normal.

LMU will give understeer and push (like you are explaining) if the front is over-driven. Some of the setups are quite safe...and the new GT3 cars feel really safe out of the box. The opposite problem occurs in LMU where the front end has an endless supply of grip. I did notice in the beta that they had addressed some of this. I will need to get back on there and see for myself what changed on the front specifically. But I do know what you mean, AMS2 gives the feeling of turn, point and drive.

I wrote a detailed description in response to the video that is very similar to this. I think we speak of the same issue. I have extensive experience tuning and modified the Mclaren GT3 setup in LMU to get more front mechanical grip and shift toward a slight/moderate oversteer balance and this did not resolve the issue. It may have improved slightly, but not enough to change my opinion that it's an issue. The constant understeer feel mid corner through the wheel is not normal in real life in race cars even with safe tunes. None of our regular RL track guys say this feels normal, and both have driven GT3 in RL.

@ THANK YOU! So many just deny what I am trying to say. They say, LMU‘s FFB is the best - period. No discussion. I also don't believe that this phenomenon can be solved by adjusting the setup. When I loose grip through understeer, I don‘t get a constant ripple-like vibration through my steering wheel and the weight in the wheel also does not stay constant. Oftentimes people then say that FFB is just down to the personal preference. To my mind, if something is wrong you need to name it and this is just wrong! AMS2 is lightyears ahead in terms of FFB and the oftentimes critisized slip angle basically only exists in the slower cars and can be eliminated by setup.

@@dionp8164 but, didn't James Baldwin say this McLaren was the best available on sim racing at the moment? Regarding setup, it is very easy to get it to rotate on it's own with setup tweaks. Use of packers on a stiffer rear and soft front will ensure it. Ask me how I know. 😂

I feel the exact same way about it. The cars are in a constant state of sliding the fronts. Whether it’s actually sliding or not is another question. And the wheel resistance changing mid corner is awful. For me this makes the driving very robotic as you just have to memorize inputs and corner speeds to get lap time.

Yeah, I found that in ACC (as was true before when I raced leagues etc), there was one way to drive and be fast. There was no room really for driving outside of this. And how a car entered a corner would dictate the entire entry, apex and exit. There was no "playing" with the car mid corner with a quick blip or flick, or brake dab to shift weight.

Yeah the SRO spec runs more power and allows for more downforce on the car. You'd think the LMGT3 would allow more power if anything, given that they share the grid with Hypercars.

@@GSSimRacing Yeah not sure what the logic is with that.

@@martinf.4781 yeah it is an odd one. Like, I think the speed difference irl is too much. Especially with the LMP2 taken out. Now with GTE gone and a slower GT3 on a grid with just hypercars is a strange move by the ACO.

Nice. Yeah, as it's still an early access game, if something feels off, I'd either pull the files off steam again or do a fresh install. I think much of this was driven by them spending time on equalizing the ffb across all cars. I understand why it could be annoying for sure. And yeah, ACC feels a lot flatter on the track surface compared to LMU.

@@GSSimRacing if I remember correctly Nils told in one video that he is working for Kunos now, so you can't expect much from the guy. I think the final confrontation will be LMU vs ACE in GT3 class, will happen in the next year's second half: Physics, FFB, netcode.

@ebeninca ah I wasn't aware Nils was working for Kunos or whatever. OK, that makes sense.

Yeah some of those mods are superb. I drove their BMW m hybrid and it was great. And yeah, the only downside with kunos is their kerbs act like glue and pull the car in a lot. ACC suffers this a little too. The rss single seater are top

RSS GT-M are on whole diff league when it comes to FFB and car behavior

@randydelacruz426 yeah, the RSS guys always do an excellent job. I've all of their single seaters. They're epic....among the best available, if not the absolute best.

These cars are ABSOLUTELY the BEST GT3 cars currently available, bar none.

Ok I just drove these cars again. Let me say, while AC1 has its issues (curbing, LFM is mostly dead, need to run a lot of mods) the only reason im playing LMU is because it has a good online ranked system in place. RSS GT-M cars blow LMU out of the water as far as feel. They are on par as far as the graphics, sounds. The GT-M cars in AC1 you can feel when the grip starts to go away in the FFB but they still don't allow crazy slip angles (maybe even less than LMU tire model). The ABS and TC aren't as good in AC1 and the braking feels kinda numb sometimes, but overall i prefer how it drives in the most important ways.

ACC has no FFB? Let me guess, you run some Fanatec / Moza junk. Buy a proper wheel, a G Pro, and turn Trueforce on. LMU has no Trueforce and it shows. That has no detail, because Trueforce is the detail, lol.😅

@@Retheraq FFB has been around long before trueforce and all simulations are optimised just fine on direct input. The trueforce tech is not needed to simulate a car, although it can add haptics based off audio and other physics effects. I wonder if over time, trueforce or a similar API will be used. There is no need of course, but in the interest of progress, who knows. Like, Trueforce processes internally at 1000hz....and so does Fanatec DD2....although game outputs are 400hz or so at the moment so anything will just be interpolation.

Low speed FFB on some of the Hypercars is very low, and this seems to be down to the caster in the suspension geometry. You can tell when going lock to lock in the pits and feel how different it becomes with aero load.

@@GSSimRacing Ya i mean in a sense we are splitting hairs. LMU is an incredible sim. But I do wish the FFB was better. AMS1 and AC1 both have vastly superior feeling FFB as far as being able to directly feel the tires and react to what the car is doing. LMU has a much more complex tire model, and therefore it makes FFB that much more complex. There is a lot of stuff going on in the FFB in LMU, but overall I don't feel like it has progressed the FFB world of sim racing. In fact its pretty objectively worse than several old old sims. This is where I get a bit disappointed because while LMU shines in so many areas I just wish it had it all...I guess thats just not how the world works haha. Keep in mind on your 20nm wheelbase you may feel some things that 75% or more of the market won't feel, because you have that vast dynamic range capability. Although, most people don't really know what they are looking for in FFB anyway and in that case LMU somewhat tricks them into thinking its great because the wheel rattles and vibrates a lot. Unfortunately the noise doesn't always communicated tire grip level, but moreso suspension happenings. Good conversation in any regard! Hope to see you online sometime GS!

@@matel9985 🤣

Please share the link to your comparison video.

@matthewbyrd398 random call sign compare it it's enough

@matthewbyrd398 might be your base is not power or not smooth , on smooth base it very obvious change between old and new LMU!

Not really. Both games are great. ACC is more smooth and lacks some detail, LMU is more direct in the ffb and you can feel much more detail. And it's not stupidity to compare two games running a GT3 class. Why you'd think this is stupidity is a bit strange. Both games are great, just deliver the fun in a different way.

@@10mmGR are you running any smoothing or damping from game or wheelbase? The game ffb output trace is completely normal in motec. Also, why do you refer to me as a fanboy of LMU. What wheelbase are you running?

I have tried every combination of filters, strength settings both in game and out. Including running none at all which feels the best but still is very lacking. I'm running an asetek forte wheelbase. Also sorry I worded that previous message wrong. I meant as much as you try to make the video sound as if it's a mostly unbiased as possible. It still comes off as an LMU fanboy somewhat upset that streamers didn't like his sim of choice.

@10mmGR So how could I make it not sound fan boy like. I even picked a car I'm not familiar with in LMU. Chose my former main car in ACC. If anything I was biased towards ACC, although I tried not to be. I don't have a sim of choice either, I play them all regularly, except acc, haven't ran that properly in a while.

@@10mmGR I'd also suggest a reinstall of the game too. As it's early access and a lot of parameters changed in the first half year, it could be worth trying that as a last resort. Given the updates, it just rules out file corruption.

@GSSimRacing tried that yesterday. Same thing. I've given up at this point. I'll try again on the next big lmu update.

pls if you not used RF2 and compare to LMU !

RF2 is a bit different. The ffb is updated. I done a video a month ago or so, comparing the two. I never liked RF2 too much, but LMU is a lot different from what I can feel.

Also, what wheel are you running. Have you got any damping or any filters at all on your wheelbase driver or in game smoothing?

@@GSSimRacing bro sorry to be hush on you but. I noticed that the ffb is changed . Just try get cars and compare

@@AL.farmlife can you tell me what damping and wheel filters you are running, wheelbase side and game side

Thank you, glad you like it.

Yep, could certainly feel that when driving.

@@Lexelot. So set the in game nm to your wheelbase. The hypercars do feel lighter as the seem to less caster on the suspension geometry. Go into the Ferrari and turn a lot. At a certain point the wheel will want to turn more, as opposed to straighten up. This is just the geometry. We just need to be careful about making a difference between a different feel of a car, versus an actual ffb output problem.

@@Lexelot. Just to add, if all else fails, do a reinstall of the game. Back up your user data folder. It is possible that as the updates have landed, something could have corrupted in a bug fix or something. I've done a few reinstall over time, it's early access after all....so sometimes doing an occasional clean install can help.

@GSSimRacing there used to be a Steering Torque Capability where I could set the nm in the game, but since that’s been removed along with the R12 preset’s number being wrong, I’m wondering if this is causing some of the inconsistencies. I’ll do some testing this weekend by changing the preset file, resetting ffb and capturing the signal data. Thanks!

@@Lexelot. ah yes, I remember that. Try a clean install of the game too...it will ensure everything is fresh and new...with no file or setting conflicts.

Nice, glad it helped. Nothing like seeing it for yourself 😁

Those parameters do nothing according to the developers. Best to delete the controller files and start fresh.

Correct.. The file It's in other places vs the place that video said it was. Dev post the spot in their discord

@@GSSimRacing 🤔So you'll listen to the LMU devs, but not the ACC devs? dynamic damping is there for a reason it adds quite a bit to the ffb. Just saying for fairness 🙄

@@GSSimRacing WHICH controller files?

@@winodogs9691 I used to run dynamic damping in acc, but I never felt it dmneeded it. For me, it just added excess weight at speed and reduced detail. Aris was a big fan of running a lot of damping.

It is possible, especially when filters are used. Some simulations will take say, a damper output channel from the ffb signal, and the driver may put that against another channel in the driver. In theory however, all wheelbase are using the Microsoft direct input api, so there should be no difference as far as the USB signal is concerned. I know simucube bases have a lot of settings that can screw things up. That being said, a lad I race with, Chris, uses a SC2 base and has no issues at all.

Will keep it in mind. I might even update to a dedicated mic moving forward.

Good advice. Although I have seen instances where people were complaining about lack of detail, yet were running 8 on smoothing filter etc.

Rest worked and take photos of your settings before hitting the rest.

I found setting my wheel to 900, setting the rotation to 900 in the game settings, and then ticking the box to match the car, made it feel fine.

Did this, as well as tweaking json files, trying the other TH-cam video's recommendations for base strength vs game strength, etc. Still haven't found happiness -- and yes , lots of pressing 'reset ffb' and 'restore default values'

@@RandyMagruder I found the files. In user data /player... Delete these two files. Current control. Json and direct input. Json be sure to screen shot all your settings. Before hand. Keep that folder open so you can see them get rebuild. Be sure you are out of the game when you delete these files. Then back and hit reset then add your stuff back.

Yes, there is a patch out tomorrow that is expected to solve a lot of stability issues. The game is going from strength to strength.