You shouldn't be surprised by the physics of RR, it uses the ISI Motor engine, same as rFactor 1 and 2, LMU, GTR2, GTR Evo. They are all superb feeling sims.
Ah I was not aware it used ISI. I think RF2 moved to a version called PMotor 2.5? Or maybe this is LMU as a evolution of RF2. I am open to correction. But yeah, it feels similar to AMS1, which was an ISI job too. That all makes sense now.
@@GSSimRacing It may be called Pmotor 2.5 now, but it was called ISIMotor 2.5, which was based on ISIMotor 2 from rFactor 1. They have all been tweaked to some extent, but the core of the engine is still the ISIMotor.
Yep it is very much so. I think they need some other tweaks....the track limits are weird...and the driver profile UI is very confusing. I was online last night looking for some races too and there was not a lot going on.
@@GSSimRacing track limits are fine. you only have to keep one wheel on the track. thats very forgiving. certainly more forgiving than UK motorsport limits....
I find the track limits a little harsh at times but when you have race in RR afterwards you actually feel like you've been in a race and for that alone I love it
RaceRoom is super underrated... off tracks are ridiculous and default setups are understeery, but for how many things it does right, it deserves way more players. But check out the AMS2 beta if you have access Gary, it's an incredible improvement.
I will redownload the beta and give it a try. I hope AMS2 does get it right, as RaceRoom would be almost unplayable online with many of the silly track cuts. A more natural feeling AMS2 with regard to front to rear balance would be a huge step in the right direction.
Raceroom is easily the best driving and sounding sim out there. Everyone quibbles over details in the other sims, but you get in RR, and it just feels like it's supposed to. Completely intuitive coming from driving actual cars and not other sims. What it lacks is things to do with all the content they've provided, and this makes MP underutilized despite having better netcode to boot. We need a career mode and the like to generate more general interest in the sim and get MP moving again.
The sounds and driving are very intuitive and feel natural. From a driving physics perspective, I would have it a very, very close second to LMU at the moment. LMU does the tyre model that bit better, with cold grip and flat spotting etc. But I do agree, since coming back to RaceRoom after the graphics update, I am realising just how capable it actually is in the physics department. I am going to go deeper into it over the coming weeks and see how it works under the hood.
Yeah, I do get the impression they are going to develop it further from here. Although, I am not sure what can be done on its current engine. This is my only concern. I would really like to see flat spotting of tyres added in. Its table stakes nowadays.
RR is a absolute blast!! I also noticed the new advertisements in RR being the Ascher Artura McLaren series wheels. I went and landed from Murray Auto sports out of Ireland, the Ascher Artura Pro to run with my 5" Ascher dashboard. KW studios has it going on man. RR is nothing but fun. I just wish they had more tracks and even more cars. "I want More" LOL
@@GSSimRacing Right on. Do you ever do any business there at ole Murray"s? Yea the track limits can be hard but I've had no choice but to tighten it up. AMS2 ?! Best part of AMS2 is the menu. Once I get on the track it's too sensitive and so touchy. But I guess every sim has it's feel and characteristics? Each sim seems to have the good with the bad. The Good bad and the Ugly. LOL
Hey, thanks for the vid, I enjoyed it. You misunderstood why RR was disqualifying laps. You're second hot lap was invalid due to the excessive cut at the chicane. The reason this corner invalidates the next lap is because in other layouts it can allow you to make more speed down the start/finish straight. The track limits themselves aren't particularly harsh, you did make a big cut over that chicane, but I'll agree the stewards are maybe taking their jobs a little too seriously at times, particularly when the GP layout chicane doesn't affect start/finish straight performance. :)
Thanks for that. Yeah, I still think the limits need adjusting. The penalty is riding the kerb too much can lead to a loss of control as I since found out. Excessive cutting should be stopped of course, but there had been a good few occasions where the track limits was obviously too strict. I assume this is a simple fix to modify the boundary lines.
RR has significant tyre update last year that changes things... they work with tyre manufacturer to get real data into the tyre model. The tyre will be accurate..
AMS2 felt more twitchy in many areas. The front end grip was so strong and this I think caused the car to feel more alive at the rear. It did feel great still. I went to Triple screens back in March of this year as I remember. I did go with triple 1080p monitors to keep the frame rates at high visual settings. Triple 1440p would mean lower frames or turning down visuals and I was not really wanting to do that.
Yeah I see them. Not sure why they are there. I will check it out. Think it is how triples are handled in AMS2. Very complicated btw setting them up there LOL.
I love ams2 its been my main sim for a while now so not been using RR but younforgwt how good RR actually is ill be definitely giving it more time after the update it looks how it sounds 'just great'
Yep I do think the raceroom sounds are superb. The little pops and bangs from the exhaust just add to the experience. Sounds will be a matter of preference sometimes too.
Regarding track limits - they have been reworked about a year ago in a way that makes them quite harsh, but also consistent across all the tracks. They are essentialy like the F1 style limit now - the white line is king, curbs don't count as a track surface. So you need to keep at least one wheel within the white lines, or at least touching the line. Once the entire car is out, the lap gets invalidated. Most sims are a bit more lenient, since some racing series keep the cars running wider in specific places, but raceroom just wanted to keep it easily understandable and consistent across all the tracks, rather than finetuning individual places where you can or cannot run wide, so they just adopted F1 style limit everywhere.
That is good to know. What was the feedback from the community on such an approach? I personally think that because the surface interaction is so good and satisfying, curtailing the heavy use of kerbs is a bit of a questionable move. I think having the pained kerb as the track limit makes more sense. This will allow a driver to enjoy attacking the track, while still having a reasonable track limit. What are your thoughts?
@@GSSimRacing People do find it tricky, but I think most regulars got used to it by this point. It makes race preperations a bit easier, since you don't have to test what's acceptable on corner by corner basis. You can still use the curbs pretty heavily, you can put almost the whole car on the curb still, as long as at least one wheel is on the white line, so it's just a matter of getting used to it. Also getting couple offtracks is not a huge deal in races, the incident limits in ranked are relatively lenient, and you only get slow downs from actual larger cuts, not from running tiny bit wide.
Yeah, the driving feel is certainly among the best. I have since done 2 Mazda rookie races and the gap across the line in every race was less than 2 seconds across the top 3. In fact, in one race at Brands Hatch, we were 3-wide into the final 2 corners. . The racing and netcode seems to be the best of any sim so far.
I still can't believe people are waiting for a big update that gonna fix ams2. I gave up on it 2 years ago exactly because of the wrong and unnatural feel of the physics. It's fundamental it is in the core of the physics and I think there us no way to be fixed. I recently had the chance to try VR and motion seat in a VR club near the place I live righ now. They were using ams2 exclusively on their PCs. Oh boy... The VR and the motion seat made the wrong doings of ams2 even more prominent. I was 2 years off ams2. I remember a few big updates was announced during that time period and coming back to it feels so skatchy so tweachy so weightless it is exactly how I left it. Gary try the Mazda Dpi, the classic Porsche cup car and some of the the dtm 16-20 era cars in RR. Those are some of the top notch cars in RR in my opinion. RR it's not just better then ams2 in terms of physics and driving feel it straight up whipes the floor with it. Play RR for a few days to get more familiar with the feel and then come back to ams2 and you will see straight away what I'm talking about.
I have driven the beta - not for media version. Of some of the cars I have driven, the cars seem to be less reliant on the rear end for rotation...and the front end seems to have a limit. I will wait until the full release, but the current version of the main game does appear to have excessive sliding. Almost to the point of drifting.
Nice to see an unbiased comparison. After watching this I immediately d/led RaceRoom to give it a try to see how it compares with AMS2, seeing how everyone seems to concur it has better physics. Well, does it really? One has to look a bit deeper to uncover the truth. Here's what I found: RR does drive nicely, tried all of the free cars and it was a pleasant experience (if one can live with the poor graphics and sparse race tracks). Car feels that it hugs the road nicely, something that several cars in AMS2 don't seem to offer as it feels like you're driving on ice, a common complaint among users. However there is one major flaw to the theory that RR has better physics and this is why: cars only drive great when full traction control is on. The moment you turn that off (as that's the way I usually drive) then the cars handle no better than the worst cars in AMS2. And it has some atrocious flaws too, like your car spinning 180º when you abruptly apply 15% throttle. No car in real life will do this at that little amount of gas. Controlling a prototype with TC off is tough, as it should be - but it has me questioning if the physics are really as good as others claim or whether it's just wildly off. In my comparisons between RR cars head to head with similar cars in AMS2 it was no better and I tried to be unbiased. Still more testing to do, I didn't even try VR yet. But is this a good value when you must pay for tracks and cars when you could nab AMS2 for a few dollars when it's on sale? I paid under $10 for it on a Steam sale. For that much you may be able to get a track and one or two cars in RR. For a game that looks no where near as good and likely doesn't offer the level of VR experience that Automobilista offers should one really invest their time and money on RR? RaceRoom is a decent game, it's just nowhere near at the level of development as bigger titles. Anyone that claims that RR is that much better than AMS2 hasn't tried both, or is content driving with full TC on. But hey, for a free game it's not bad. That is, until you start paying for cars, liveries and tracks.
@@mxracinguy5993 I can relate to your thoughts here. One thing with Raceroom that is a weakness is the over forgiving braking and turn in. It feels like superglue in a way. And the weakness with AMS2 is the excessive rear end sliding and wide grip profile of the rear tyre...i think this is why you can drive AMS2 with TC off much of the time. I'm not sure if you've access to the AMS2 beta, but from my initial driving of if, it seems to be a step in the right direction. The car side to side weight shifting and yaw reminded me of how cars react in LMU to weight shift, although the ffb is still AMS2 in feel. So I can only imagine how nice the new version will be once it's released. As a game overall, I do think AMS2 has more to offer. The other let down in Raceroom are the servers are dead for the most part. But again, the physics are still pretty nice and balanced.
@@GSSimRacing Funny you should the braking. I also try not to have full ABS on and mistakenly chose 'assisted' as I thought it was a lesser degree of ABS. Couldn't understand why the car would lose speed and bog down while on the straights. Took me a while to realize that assisted means the game will apply the brakes for you. And here I was thinking that I was playing a simulator. This sort of gimmick is found in kiddie games like Forza and Gran Turismo where they need to cater to novice drivers by doing the braking and steering for the person holding the controller. Was really surprised that RR had such a feature. I mean, this is supposed to be a sim, right? No, I don't have access to the beta for 1.6, am eagerly waiting. I do get frustrated with many of the cars in AMS2 due to the points you mentioned here, regarding lack of grip and odd rear end movement. If Reiza manages to address these inconsistencies then this with the upcoming update it will be huge. As is, I have to agree that the game falls short of expectations. Prettiness only takes you so far, physics is the key thing in a racing sim. With that said I'm still glad I watched your comparison and d/led RR. The cars are enjoyable to drive. I may invest in a track or two and a couple of cars. I don't dislike the game, I just think it's a far cry from the level of development seen in bigger titles. Hopefully VR won't be a let down (still haven't tested it with the Quest 3). I see RR as AC, nice to own and venture into it occasionally but hardly a game I'd see myself spending much time on.
It seems like AMS2 looses all head to head comparisons to other sims. The madness engine has so much going for it tho, Reiza just needs to dial in some of the physics parameters. My understanding is that V.1.6 will reduce the allowable slip angle across the board. I always enjoy watching these. I look forward to more.
Thanks mate. Yeah, I think Reiza enjoyed success when LMU was not around. Once LMU landed (despite all its bugs) it became clear that the simulation element of sim racing had taken another step forward, even a step above what RF2 had. RaceRoom is also likely to be put on the map now with the graphical update and strong online ranking system. Reiza, have a chance to get back to former glory with V1.6. I do think if LMU was not as bug ridden at the outset of its life, AMS2 would be in a worse spot right now, especially those seeking some multi-class racing.
absurd or not that's how it should be most series has track limits to the white line in their rules, not everyone following rules and execution is different topic I like it since it makes it clear for everyone and u don't need to waste time looking for places where u can abuse limits like in other sims
Raceroom turned out to be the sim everyone said AMS2 was. Weird. Im hoping AMS2 can bunny hop with 1.6 because competition is innovation and we all benefit. I love the RR pricing structure and the test drive feature is awesome.
Yeah I am really interested to see what 1.6 brings to AMS2. The game does feel better on the beta, but I think LMU has taken a lump out of everyone when it comes to physics and FFB. Although, they do need to work on game stability too.
If you're running RaceRoom on triples I assume you're using Surround which is why I and many won't touch RaceRoom, It's as good as impossible to get it running without surround or Eyefinity like you can AMS2 or ACC or AC, And if you do it's a luck thing. If you have got it running without surround, then I and many would like to know how.
@@georgesummer536 I'm on AMD, Which means Eyefinity, Which is much the same, If not the same as Surround, Now Eyefinity is OK and works, But like many I use my Sim setup for more than just racing, I like to use my monitors as individual monitors and not as one monitor, I'm not the only one as many like to use SRWE or Resize Raccoon and won't touch Eyefinity or Surround. Now AMS2 like PC2 before it has triple screen setup, Also ACC and AC, Even RennSport has it without the use of Eyefinity or Surround, So for the developers to spend all this time on the graphics to then not sort out something that's a known issue, And is used by many of it's customers is a bit silly. I am more than happy for someone to point me in the direction of 1 or 2 of your 3 or 4 ways to get triples on RaceRoom without Eyefinity or Surround, But I think you may have to scale that number down.
Yeah, I am not sure how I feel about that. I mean, the majority of cars are tin tops and not formula cars. And a lot of the fun is in attacking the track and trying to grab a tenth here and there. I have done some online ranked races and found track limits to be a bit of a draw away from fun. It is like I was positioning the car as opposed to attacking and pushing.
Raceroom is better in a lot of stuff. It is a shame that they do not have wheater etc. But ik love the Sim above ams2 that deals like riding on ice and the sound is afgul.
I think the next step for RaceRoom could be night racing and weather at a later date. I am not sure of the limits on DX9 though. I use the Vulkan extension, and it works fine for me, but again, I am not sure if the platform can do rain etc to a high enough level.
AMS 2 for me, Because of the VR experience is so good in AMS 2, And since I put a Quest 2 on my head, I can't seem to not do VR sim racing, AMS 2 in VR is pretty bad ass, Plus in VR I can see corners better, I know if the back end is going to slip out faster, AMS 2 reminds me of Dirt Rally 2 with the VR racing experience, now if Race Room was VR I would probably be on Race Room, RR was the first sim racing title I played on when I got my first PC, An i7 6700k with a 1660 super, Now I gpt an i5 12600k on a MSI Z690 Unify motherboard, Fantastic motherboard the Z690 from MSI is, And for 160 pounds on Amazon in a sale, how could I not get the MSI Z690, lol, And I have a 12gb 3060 now, And it is a pretty good combo for VR, The i5 12600k and a 12gb 3060 is a s top VR racing in medium to high settings, The DDR5 do make a noticeable difference, My PC feels snappier wi the DDR5 on the MSI Z690, I didn't think a good motherboard would make the sim racing better for me, I do think is the DDR5 ram, At 5200MHz, So if anyone is thinking of upgrading to a DDR5 motherboard, Just upgrade if you can, And get 32gb of DDR5 ram, Your PC will be rapid then, But yeah for me it is AMS 2 purely because I am a VR sim racer, I don't know about anyone else but I can't go back to my TV after doing VR, lol, I even stopped going on Beam NG, I used to find the police chases in traffic well fun, Until I started VR, Beam NG isn't that good in VR by the way, Though now I have DDR5 ram and a better motherboard, I will try Beam NG out again later, If you got a 16gb 40 series GPU, Then Beam NG might be top in VR, But with the PC I got Beam don't do too well in VR, lol... If RR was VR I would be on it, But as it stands AMS 2 got VR locked down well, So much so it is all I pretty much go on, lol......
Yeah, I do think that for VR users, AMS2 is the defacto choice. As you say, it nails it very well. I do think some minor tyre slip adjustments into AMS2 will do it a huge service and get it noticed even more. The choice of cars is great and it is really nice to see the Brazilian Series represented.
@@GSSimRacing I never knew Race Room was VR capable,. lol, So now I just re-installed Race Room, Plus with the new MSI Z690 I just put in my PC, I got 5 M.2 slots so memory is not going to be an issue I hope, lol, I have another 1TB M.2 I will install on the Z690 later on, And start transfering certain things the new M.2 to free up the main M.2, It is a Kingston Gen 4 M.2 as my main memory, Great M.2 by the way, And it is a good price too, But yeah I had memory issues only having 1TB, 1TB is not enough, So anyone saying 1TB will do, Don't listen and try stretching a 2Tb M.2, It is a mistake that I made only getting the 1TB M.2, Before I knew it I had no memory left, lol..... And I am glad you mentioned Brazil, I have had some brilliant online races with Brazilian people, And American's, When ever I race with UK people, All I see is crashes, So much so now I waits until everyone have done the first corner, So many people go racing online without knowing how to drive the flipping car, so many cars spin out, I spent the best part of a year practice before I started sim racing online, I do not want to be that sim racer who is the one who can't drive, lol, I managed to get 15th on the Nordsliefe in a McLaren MP4, F1 car from the 90s, But yeah now I finally got some pace, I will be entering some proper competition races, But for now AMS 2 after 12 midnight UK time, Is fantastic for online races, But yeah I will be trying Race Room a bit later in VR, Now I know it is VR, lol,. Happy days, Until AMS 2, 1.6 update drops I got a daytime Sim racing title to have a go on, lol....... Happy Sim Racing yeah, stay safe yeah, Peace.....
I try to separate FFB from the physics. While the FFB is important as it tells us what the car is doing, the physics is more about what the car actually does (ignoring FFB feel). FFB was superb in both, I always thought AMS2 is among the best in FFB, as in, it is telling me what the car is doing. The issue is, what the car is doing is not always the most realistic when it comes to the slip angle of the rear and the overly strong front bite. It is a minor thing of course, I still think AMS2 is a great simulator. Hopefully with v1.6 it takes another step forward.
How does FFB fix the weird physics? I see this mentioned a lot but FFB and physics are different things all together. At least Reiza have admitted to the issues with the physics and are looking to address it.
@@TypeRTeg This. No sim is perfect, but I do love Reiza constantly try to refine and improve their game. It's a passion project for them and we're all lucky to be a part of their work.
I will re-do it when v1.6 drops. But I don't think it is useless, it is a comparison of the 2 sims right now. But for sure, when 1.6 drops...I will look at this again. I may even download the not for media branch to get a feel and idea for what is coming....you are giving me ideas!
Once AMS2 V1.6 releases will we all finally be able to say “wow AMS2 isn’t weird n slidey and it feels like driving a car on dry asphalt”. I really hope Reiza nail it, because I know I’d enjoy it and actually play it if the cars felt connected to the road. I honestly don’t understand how people prefer graphics over physics and driving feel when it comes to driving sims. AMS2 may look pretty but man it drives real ugly.
I think the most important aspect is driving physics, especially in racing sims. While AMS2 does drive well, some models have excessive slip angles. I think some minor changes would make sense. The slip angle is fine, but I should not be able to keep it as easily, or for as long. This is the main adjustment that is needed.
@@porthmeor1 thankfully for the sim racing community, the devs don’t agree with you and are doing a complete physics and tyre model overhaul, so that AMS2 will no longer feel as terrible as it does and will be more natural and familiar to driving a car that’s connected to a road. Bring on V1.6 update!
@@jamesleegte That is my issue with AMS2, cars just slide around and don't feel connected to the road. You can also do pretty much anything with the cars also, even the F1 games are less forgiving. Thankfully Reiza have said the forgiving nature and sliding is being worked on. If 1.6 doesn't address the weird physics, I feel it never will feel like a good sim.
@@TypeRTeg I’m with you on this! I’ve seen a lot of AMS2 defenders in the paddock club post things like I can’t play v1.5 anymore it’s so slidey and the staff saying the cars are significantly better. I feel the same that if v1.6 isn’t the update that makes this game satisfying and enjoyable to drive, it’s probably time for me to wave the white flag and uninstall it and leave it in my hidden steam library with Project Cars 2. I can drive GT3 cars in AMS2 with no tc and no abs and the best way to corner is an identical technique to Dirt Rally 2.0 and EA WRC. One handed on the steering wheel, powerslide through corners and countersteer whilst flooring it on exit for the fastest lap times and to heat your tyres up quickly. It makes no sense to me and alien to what I see when watching real life racing in IMSA.
RaceRoom is class. I think variety they are similar, AMS2 probably has a slight bit more. But from a physics perspective, RR does appear to behave more naturally.
You find RaceRoom to be arcade like in handling? Any car I drove, the car was reacting very predictable, mainly on the mechanical side. I also opened the DRS on one of the DTM cars and the car went out of control LOL. Which cars did you find felt arcady?
@GSSimRacing It's not the sound, I've driven more sims and race cars. But this gives a kind of irritation, which I don't find comfortable. Maybe if I play it myself on comp, it might be different.
You shouldn't be surprised by the physics of RR, it uses the ISI Motor engine, same as rFactor 1 and 2, LMU, GTR2, GTR Evo. They are all superb feeling sims.
Ah I was not aware it used ISI. I think RF2 moved to a version called PMotor 2.5? Or maybe this is LMU as a evolution of RF2. I am open to correction. But yeah, it feels similar to AMS1, which was an ISI job too. That all makes sense now.
@@GSSimRacing It may be called Pmotor 2.5 now, but it was called ISIMotor 2.5, which was based on ISIMotor 2 from rFactor 1. They have all been tweaked to some extent, but the core of the engine is still the ISIMotor.
Raceroom is a really underrated sim.
Yep it is very much so. I think they need some other tweaks....the track limits are weird...and the driver profile UI is very confusing. I was online last night looking for some races too and there was not a lot going on.
It is
@@GSSimRacingtrack limits are a mess. For races i do not race online. Raceroom has one of the best ai there is. Especially adaptive ai.
@@GSSimRacing track limits are fine. you only have to keep one wheel on the track. thats very forgiving. certainly more forgiving than UK motorsport limits....
I find the track limits a little harsh at times but when you have race in RR afterwards you actually feel like you've been in a race and for that alone I love it
RaceRoom is super underrated... off tracks are ridiculous and default setups are understeery, but for how many things it does right, it deserves way more players. But check out the AMS2 beta if you have access Gary, it's an incredible improvement.
I will redownload the beta and give it a try. I hope AMS2 does get it right, as RaceRoom would be almost unplayable online with many of the silly track cuts. A more natural feeling AMS2 with regard to front to rear balance would be a huge step in the right direction.
The Macau track on the RR is useless, impossible to get around the hairpin without hitting the guardrail.
Raceroom is easily the best driving and sounding sim out there. Everyone quibbles over details in the other sims, but you get in RR, and it just feels like it's supposed to. Completely intuitive coming from driving actual cars and not other sims. What it lacks is things to do with all the content they've provided, and this makes MP underutilized despite having better netcode to boot. We need a career mode and the like to generate more general interest in the sim and get MP moving again.
The sounds and driving are very intuitive and feel natural. From a driving physics perspective, I would have it a very, very close second to LMU at the moment. LMU does the tyre model that bit better, with cold grip and flat spotting etc. But I do agree, since coming back to RaceRoom after the graphics update, I am realising just how capable it actually is in the physics department. I am going to go deeper into it over the coming weeks and see how it works under the hood.
Shame it's so buggy...6 attempts to get into multiple lobbies last night...just left hanging...we gave up in the end.
I tend to agree with you, I hope KW will continue to improve RaceRoom cause it's definitely an outstanding sim on the physics side.
Yeah, I do get the impression they are going to develop it further from here. Although, I am not sure what can be done on its current engine. This is my only concern. I would really like to see flat spotting of tyres added in. Its table stakes nowadays.
RR is a absolute blast!! I also noticed the new advertisements in RR being the Ascher Artura McLaren series wheels. I went and landed from Murray Auto sports out of Ireland, the Ascher Artura Pro to run with my 5" Ascher dashboard.
KW studios has it going on man. RR is nothing but fun. I just wish they had more tracks and even more cars. "I want More" LOL
It is great but they need to work the track limits...it is my only problem. Murray's is about a 10 minute drive from my house!
@@GSSimRacing Right on. Do you ever do any business there at ole Murray"s? Yea the track limits can be hard but I've had no choice but to tighten it up. AMS2 ?! Best part of AMS2 is the menu. Once I get on the track it's too sensitive and so touchy. But I guess every sim has it's feel and characteristics? Each sim seems to have the good with the bad. The Good bad and the Ugly. LOL
Hey, thanks for the vid, I enjoyed it. You misunderstood why RR was disqualifying laps. You're second hot lap was invalid due to the excessive cut at the chicane. The reason this corner invalidates the next lap is because in other layouts it can allow you to make more speed down the start/finish straight. The track limits themselves aren't particularly harsh, you did make a big cut over that chicane, but I'll agree the stewards are maybe taking their jobs a little too seriously at times, particularly when the GP layout chicane doesn't affect start/finish straight performance. :)
Thanks for that. Yeah, I still think the limits need adjusting. The penalty is riding the kerb too much can lead to a loss of control as I since found out. Excessive cutting should be stopped of course, but there had been a good few occasions where the track limits was obviously too strict. I assume this is a simple fix to modify the boundary lines.
R3E Physics > AMS2.
R3E Sounds > AMS2
Ooohh, controversial! But I will say that R3E does drive and sound superb. I hope they continue to develop it.
RR has significant tyre update last year that changes things... they work with tyre manufacturer to get real data into the tyre model. The tyre will be accurate..
Yeah it does feel pretty nice and the tyre does feel natural. The track limits on the sim really need some adjusting though.
When did you go triples?? Looks good, great video, I like them both. I'm my opinion, ams2 feels more lively but re3 is more fun to race...
AMS2 felt more twitchy in many areas. The front end grip was so strong and this I think caused the car to feel more alive at the rear. It did feel great still. I went to Triple screens back in March of this year as I remember. I did go with triple 1080p monitors to keep the frame rates at high visual settings. Triple 1440p would mean lower frames or turning down visuals and I was not really wanting to do that.
Bars still there in AMS2, just in case ya didn't know Gary 👍👍
Still great work 😎
Only thing ams2 has got right is graphics. That's it. Its a below average simracing game.
Yeah I see them. Not sure why they are there. I will check it out. Think it is how triples are handled in AMS2. Very complicated btw setting them up there LOL.
@@GSSimRacing nightmare, probably don't notice them there IRL?
Some set up btw man... Try TT2 with wheel 💪🤣🇮🇲
@@abuelb For me the best sim racing game...love the feel...That's all that matters
I love ams2 its been my main sim for a while now so not been using RR but younforgwt how good RR actually is ill be definitely giving it more time after the update it looks how it sounds 'just great'
Yep I do think the raceroom sounds are superb. The little pops and bangs from the exhaust just add to the experience. Sounds will be a matter of preference sometimes too.
Regarding track limits - they have been reworked about a year ago in a way that makes them quite harsh, but also consistent across all the tracks. They are essentialy like the F1 style limit now - the white line is king, curbs don't count as a track surface. So you need to keep at least one wheel within the white lines, or at least touching the line. Once the entire car is out, the lap gets invalidated. Most sims are a bit more lenient, since some racing series keep the cars running wider in specific places, but raceroom just wanted to keep it easily understandable and consistent across all the tracks, rather than finetuning individual places where you can or cannot run wide, so they just adopted F1 style limit everywhere.
That is good to know. What was the feedback from the community on such an approach? I personally think that because the surface interaction is so good and satisfying, curtailing the heavy use of kerbs is a bit of a questionable move. I think having the pained kerb as the track limit makes more sense. This will allow a driver to enjoy attacking the track, while still having a reasonable track limit. What are your thoughts?
@@GSSimRacing People do find it tricky, but I think most regulars got used to it by this point. It makes race preperations a bit easier, since you don't have to test what's acceptable on corner by corner basis. You can still use the curbs pretty heavily, you can put almost the whole car on the curb still, as long as at least one wheel is on the white line, so it's just a matter of getting used to it. Also getting couple offtracks is not a huge deal in races, the incident limits in ranked are relatively lenient, and you only get slow downs from actual larger cuts, not from running tiny bit wide.
All I know is that every time I end a session of RaceRoom I have a big smile on my face!
Yeah, the driving feel is certainly among the best. I have since done 2 Mazda rookie races and the gap across the line in every race was less than 2 seconds across the top 3. In fact, in one race at Brands Hatch, we were 3-wide into the final 2 corners. . The racing and netcode seems to be the best of any sim so far.
I still can't believe people are waiting for a big update that gonna fix ams2. I gave up on it 2 years ago exactly because of the wrong and unnatural feel of the physics. It's fundamental it is in the core of the physics and I think there us no way to be fixed. I recently had the chance to try VR and motion seat in a VR club near the place I live righ now. They were using ams2 exclusively on their PCs. Oh boy... The VR and the motion seat made the wrong doings of ams2 even more prominent. I was 2 years off ams2. I remember a few big updates was announced during that time period and coming back to it feels so skatchy so tweachy so weightless it is exactly how I left it.
Gary try the Mazda Dpi, the classic Porsche cup car and some of the the dtm 16-20 era cars in RR. Those are some of the top notch cars in RR in my opinion. RR it's not just better then ams2 in terms of physics and driving feel it straight up whipes the floor with it. Play RR for a few days to get more familiar with the feel and then come back to ams2 and you will see straight away what I'm talking about.
I have driven the beta - not for media version. Of some of the cars I have driven, the cars seem to be less reliant on the rear end for rotation...and the front end seems to have a limit. I will wait until the full release, but the current version of the main game does appear to have excessive sliding. Almost to the point of drifting.
Nice to see an unbiased comparison. After watching this I immediately d/led RaceRoom to give it a try to see how it compares with AMS2, seeing how everyone seems to concur it has better physics.
Well, does it really? One has to look a bit deeper to uncover the truth. Here's what I found:
RR does drive nicely, tried all of the free cars and it was a pleasant experience (if one can live with the poor graphics and sparse race tracks). Car feels that it hugs the road nicely, something that several cars in AMS2 don't seem to offer as it feels like you're driving on ice, a common complaint among users.
However there is one major flaw to the theory that RR has better physics and this is why: cars only drive great when full traction control is on. The moment you turn that off (as that's the way I usually drive) then the cars handle no better than the worst cars in AMS2. And it has some atrocious flaws too, like your car spinning 180º when you abruptly apply 15% throttle. No car in real life will do this at that little amount of gas. Controlling a prototype with TC off is tough, as it should be - but it has me questioning if the physics are really as good as others claim or whether it's just wildly off. In my comparisons between RR cars head to head with similar cars in AMS2 it was no better and I tried to be unbiased. Still more testing to do, I didn't even try VR yet. But is this a good value when you must pay for tracks and cars when you could nab AMS2 for a few dollars when it's on sale? I paid under $10 for it on a Steam sale. For that much you may be able to get a track and one or two cars in RR. For a game that looks no where near as good and likely doesn't offer the level of VR experience that Automobilista offers should one really invest their time and money on RR? RaceRoom is a decent game, it's just nowhere near at the level of development as bigger titles. Anyone that claims that RR is that much better than AMS2 hasn't tried both, or is content driving with full TC on. But hey, for a free game it's not bad. That is, until you start paying for cars, liveries and tracks.
@@mxracinguy5993 I can relate to your thoughts here. One thing with Raceroom that is a weakness is the over forgiving braking and turn in. It feels like superglue in a way. And the weakness with AMS2 is the excessive rear end sliding and wide grip profile of the rear tyre...i think this is why you can drive AMS2 with TC off much of the time. I'm not sure if you've access to the AMS2 beta, but from my initial driving of if, it seems to be a step in the right direction. The car side to side weight shifting and yaw reminded me of how cars react in LMU to weight shift, although the ffb is still AMS2 in feel. So I can only imagine how nice the new version will be once it's released. As a game overall, I do think AMS2 has more to offer. The other let down in Raceroom are the servers are dead for the most part. But again, the physics are still pretty nice and balanced.
@@GSSimRacing Funny you should the braking. I also try not to have full ABS on and mistakenly chose 'assisted' as I thought it was a lesser degree of ABS. Couldn't understand why the car would lose speed and bog down while on the straights. Took me a while to realize that assisted means the game will apply the brakes for you. And here I was thinking that I was playing a simulator. This sort of gimmick is found in kiddie games like Forza and Gran Turismo where they need to cater to novice drivers by doing the braking and steering for the person holding the controller. Was really surprised that RR had such a feature. I mean, this is supposed to be a sim, right?
No, I don't have access to the beta for 1.6, am eagerly waiting. I do get frustrated with many of the cars in AMS2 due to the points you mentioned here, regarding lack of grip and odd rear end movement. If Reiza manages to address these inconsistencies then this with the upcoming update it will be huge. As is, I have to agree that the game falls short of expectations. Prettiness only takes you so far, physics is the key thing in a racing sim.
With that said I'm still glad I watched your comparison and d/led RR. The cars are enjoyable to drive. I may invest in a track or two and a couple of cars. I don't dislike the game, I just think it's a far cry from the level of development seen in bigger titles. Hopefully VR won't be a let down (still haven't tested it with the Quest 3). I see RR as AC, nice to own and venture into it occasionally but hardly a game I'd see myself spending much time on.
It seems like AMS2 looses all head to head comparisons to other sims. The madness engine has so much going for it tho, Reiza just needs to dial in some of the physics parameters. My understanding is that V.1.6 will reduce the allowable slip angle across the board.
I always enjoy watching these. I look forward to more.
Thanks mate. Yeah, I think Reiza enjoyed success when LMU was not around. Once LMU landed (despite all its bugs) it became clear that the simulation element of sim racing had taken another step forward, even a step above what RF2 had. RaceRoom is also likely to be put on the map now with the graphical update and strong online ranking system. Reiza, have a chance to get back to former glory with V1.6. I do think if LMU was not as bug ridden at the outset of its life, AMS2 would be in a worse spot right now, especially those seeking some multi-class racing.
Raceroom is so good right now but these penalties are absurd!!!!!
Yeah the track limits are ridiculous. It makes driving way less fun and engaging.
absurd or not that's how it should be
most series has track limits to the white line in their rules, not everyone following rules and execution is different topic
I like it since it makes it clear for everyone and u don't need to waste time looking for places where u can abuse limits like in other sims
@@georgesummer536 Perfect.
Raceroom turned out to be the sim everyone said AMS2 was. Weird. Im hoping AMS2 can bunny hop with 1.6 because competition is innovation and we all benefit. I love the RR pricing structure and the test drive feature is awesome.
Yeah I am really interested to see what 1.6 brings to AMS2. The game does feel better on the beta, but I think LMU has taken a lump out of everyone when it comes to physics and FFB. Although, they do need to work on game stability too.
@@GSSimRacing Looks like its LMU will go onto the wish list. Im such a hard sell for racing games with good physics, lol.
@@Despiser25 The physics are superb. I have a video in the oven that will dive a little deeper into this. It was very interesting putting it together.
Yeeeeeessss the F3 is AmS2 is awesome
One of my favourites to drive in AMS2....especially at Oulton Park.
@@GSSimRacing have a crack at the formula trainer (ford) I used to own one they're sick
If you're running RaceRoom on triples I assume you're using Surround which is why I and many won't touch RaceRoom, It's as good as impossible to get it running without surround or Eyefinity like you can AMS2 or ACC or AC, And if you do it's a luck thing.
If you have got it running without surround, then I and many would like to know how.
Yeah I am using surround. I use it on all my sims. I find surround simple. Set the bezel correction and it applies across all screens, all simulators.
there is at least 3 or 4 ways to make triples work in Raceroom
and why u think surround itself is bad? I don't understand that approach
@@georgesummer536 I'm on AMD, Which means Eyefinity, Which is much the same, If not the same as Surround, Now Eyefinity is OK and works, But like many I use my Sim setup for more than just racing, I like to use my monitors as individual monitors and not as one monitor, I'm not the only one as many like to use SRWE or Resize Raccoon and won't touch Eyefinity or Surround. Now AMS2 like PC2 before it has triple screen setup, Also ACC and AC, Even RennSport has it without the use of Eyefinity or Surround, So for the developers to spend all this time on the graphics to then not sort out something that's a known issue, And is used by many of it's customers is a bit silly.
I am more than happy for someone to point me in the direction of 1 or 2 of your 3 or 4 ways to get triples on RaceRoom without Eyefinity or Surround, But I think you may have to scale that number down.
The Macau track on the RR is useless, impossible to get around the hairpin without hitting the guardrail.
Very similar to the new Avus circuit. Nice track, but if T1 goes wrong, it goes very wrong
RR uses F1 track limits, not like in Indy were complete corners are cut without penalty,
Yeah, I am not sure how I feel about that. I mean, the majority of cars are tin tops and not formula cars. And a lot of the fun is in attacking the track and trying to grab a tenth here and there. I have done some online ranked races and found track limits to be a bit of a draw away from fun. It is like I was positioning the car as opposed to attacking and pushing.
Raceroom is better in a lot of stuff. It is a shame that they do not have wheater etc. But ik love the Sim above ams2 that deals like riding on ice and the sound is afgul.
I think the next step for RaceRoom could be night racing and weather at a later date. I am not sure of the limits on DX9 though. I use the Vulkan extension, and it works fine for me, but again, I am not sure if the platform can do rain etc to a high enough level.
AMS 2 for me, Because of the VR experience is so good in AMS 2, And since I put a Quest 2 on my head, I can't seem to not do VR sim racing, AMS 2 in VR is pretty bad ass, Plus in VR I can see corners better, I know if the back end is going to slip out faster, AMS 2 reminds me of Dirt Rally 2 with the VR racing experience, now if Race Room was VR I would probably be on Race Room, RR was the first sim racing title I played on when I got my first PC, An i7 6700k with a 1660 super, Now I gpt an i5 12600k on a MSI Z690 Unify motherboard, Fantastic motherboard the Z690 from MSI is, And for 160 pounds on Amazon in a sale, how could I not get the MSI Z690, lol, And I have a 12gb 3060 now, And it is a pretty good combo for VR, The i5 12600k and a 12gb 3060 is a s top VR racing in medium to high settings, The DDR5 do make a noticeable difference, My PC feels snappier wi the DDR5 on the MSI Z690, I didn't think a good motherboard would make the sim racing better for me, I do think is the DDR5 ram, At 5200MHz, So if anyone is thinking of upgrading to a DDR5 motherboard, Just upgrade if you can, And get 32gb of DDR5 ram, Your PC will be rapid then, But yeah for me it is AMS 2 purely because I am a VR sim racer, I don't know about anyone else but I can't go back to my TV after doing VR, lol, I even stopped going on Beam NG, I used to find the police chases in traffic well fun, Until I started VR, Beam NG isn't that good in VR by the way, Though now I have DDR5 ram and a better motherboard, I will try Beam NG out again later, If you got a 16gb 40 series GPU, Then Beam NG might be top in VR, But with the PC I got Beam don't do too well in VR, lol...
If RR was VR I would be on it, But as it stands AMS 2 got VR locked down well, So much so it is all I pretty much go on, lol......
Yeah, I do think that for VR users, AMS2 is the defacto choice. As you say, it nails it very well. I do think some minor tyre slip adjustments into AMS2 will do it a huge service and get it noticed even more. The choice of cars is great and it is really nice to see the Brazilian Series represented.
@@GSSimRacing I never knew Race Room was VR capable,. lol, So now I just re-installed Race Room, Plus with the new MSI Z690 I just put in my PC, I got 5 M.2 slots so memory is not going to be an issue I hope, lol, I have another 1TB M.2 I will install on the Z690 later on, And start transfering certain things the new M.2 to free up the main M.2, It is a Kingston Gen 4 M.2 as my main memory, Great M.2 by the way, And it is a good price too, But yeah I had memory issues only having 1TB, 1TB is not enough, So anyone saying 1TB will do, Don't listen and try stretching a 2Tb M.2, It is a mistake that I made only getting the 1TB M.2, Before I knew it I had no memory left, lol.....
And I am glad you mentioned Brazil, I have had some brilliant online races with Brazilian people, And American's, When ever I race with UK people, All I see is crashes, So much so now I waits until everyone have done the first corner, So many people go racing online without knowing how to drive the flipping car, so many cars spin out, I spent the best part of a year practice before I started sim racing online, I do not want to be that sim racer who is the one who can't drive, lol, I managed to get 15th on the Nordsliefe in a McLaren MP4, F1 car from the 90s, But yeah now I finally got some pace, I will be entering some proper competition races, But for now AMS 2 after 12 midnight UK time, Is fantastic for online races, But yeah I will be trying Race Room a bit later in VR, Now I know it is VR, lol,. Happy days, Until AMS 2, 1.6 update drops I got a daytime Sim racing title to have a go on, lol.......
Happy Sim Racing yeah, stay safe yeah, Peace.....
With proper custom FFB file AMS2 is the best sim on the market
maybe from gran turismo players
their physics sucks a bit still, they still can't fix some issues that came with pc2 engine which is funny
I try to separate FFB from the physics. While the FFB is important as it tells us what the car is doing, the physics is more about what the car actually does (ignoring FFB feel). FFB was superb in both, I always thought AMS2 is among the best in FFB, as in, it is telling me what the car is doing. The issue is, what the car is doing is not always the most realistic when it comes to the slip angle of the rear and the overly strong front bite. It is a minor thing of course, I still think AMS2 is a great simulator. Hopefully with v1.6 it takes another step forward.
How does FFB fix the weird physics? I see this mentioned a lot but FFB and physics are different things all together. At least Reiza have admitted to the issues with the physics and are looking to address it.
@@TypeRTeg This. No sim is perfect, but I do love Reiza constantly try to refine and improve their game. It's a passion project for them and we're all lucky to be a part of their work.
raceroom has one fault and you notice it right away too... the track limits. Theyre kinda off
Yeah I have not been back to RR since. It just kills the fun. Great to drive, but feels like a scalextrix driving style to remain in limits.
It's completely useless to do these comparison until AMS2 v1.6 drops.
Yeah, I second that.
I will re-do it when v1.6 drops. But I don't think it is useless, it is a comparison of the 2 sims right now. But for sure, when 1.6 drops...I will look at this again. I may even download the not for media branch to get a feel and idea for what is coming....you are giving me ideas!
Once AMS2 V1.6 releases will we all finally be able to say “wow AMS2 isn’t weird n slidey and it feels like driving a car on dry asphalt”.
I really hope Reiza nail it, because I know I’d enjoy it and actually play it if the cars felt connected to the road.
I honestly don’t understand how people prefer graphics over physics and driving feel when it comes to driving sims. AMS2 may look pretty but man it drives real ugly.
I think the most important aspect is driving physics, especially in racing sims. While AMS2 does drive well, some models have excessive slip angles. I think some minor changes would make sense. The slip angle is fine, but I should not be able to keep it as easily, or for as long. This is the main adjustment that is needed.
I prefer the AMS2 physics.....and graphics
@@porthmeor1 thankfully for the sim racing community, the devs don’t agree with you and are doing a complete physics and tyre model overhaul, so that AMS2 will no longer feel as terrible as it does and will be more natural and familiar to driving a car that’s connected to a road. Bring on V1.6 update!
@@jamesleegte That is my issue with AMS2, cars just slide around and don't feel connected to the road. You can also do pretty much anything with the cars also, even the F1 games are less forgiving. Thankfully Reiza have said the forgiving nature and sliding is being worked on. If 1.6 doesn't address the weird physics, I feel it never will feel like a good sim.
@@TypeRTeg I’m with you on this! I’ve seen a lot of AMS2 defenders in the paddock club post things like I can’t play v1.5 anymore it’s so slidey and the staff saying the cars are significantly better. I feel the same that if v1.6 isn’t the update that makes this game satisfying and enjoyable to drive, it’s probably time for me to wave the white flag and uninstall it and leave it in my hidden steam library with Project Cars 2. I can drive GT3 cars in AMS2 with no tc and no abs and the best way to corner is an identical technique to Dirt Rally 2.0 and EA WRC. One handed on the steering wheel, powerslide through corners and countersteer whilst flooring it on exit for the fastest lap times and to heat your tyres up quickly. It makes no sense to me and alien to what I see when watching real life racing in IMSA.
RaceRoom is by far better, more variety of cars and tracks!!!
RaceRoom is class. I think variety they are similar, AMS2 probably has a slight bit more. But from a physics perspective, RR does appear to behave more naturally.
Raceroom has a lot better graphics but handlings feel so arcadey in most cars.
You find RaceRoom to be arcade like in handling? Any car I drove, the car was reacting very predictable, mainly on the mechanical side. I also opened the DRS on one of the DTM cars and the car went out of control LOL. Which cars did you find felt arcady?
😂 it's the most realistic natural feel of driving compared to any out there.
@@GSSimRacing I drive mostly cars before 2000. DTM 1992 and 1995 feel really arcadey. Give em a try if you havent.
I agree, but I find the sound of raceroom very annoying.
I like the pops and crackles from the exhaust. I think sound can be more of a preference thing.
@GSSimRacing It's not the sound, I've driven more sims and race cars. But this gives a kind of irritation, which I don't find comfortable. Maybe if I play it myself on comp, it might be different.