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@@NewEraMusic972 once you can do -10 like this, -2 and even -4 often just feels like you’re throwing nose neutral!

@disc-golf-neil Nice to know! Gona be taking side view videos of my form to achieve this. I'm sure it will add more distance. I'm kinda wierd in that I throw 1finger like Marwede but your tips still apply the same if anyone was wondering.

@ yeah still applies even if you serve the pizza. But I suspect 1 finger is a little harder since you don’t have a second one to add some extra support surface area under the disc as you elevate it

@@roosbowlab4971 FH is less forgiving due to less spin. Below is what I think for backhand so FH the danger zone would happen sooner. Less than or equal to 2 is crazy good (I only sometimes get this) 2-3 inclusive is really good 4-6 is acceptable / manageable 7-8 getting into danger zone Above 8 is bad

@@disc-golf-neil Wow. Fast and great answer. I have 4-5 deg wobble BH. FH sadly almost 7-8 so i guess i should train with putters as you mentioned. I get pain easily in the inside of the elbow guess that means im not that smooth. Using my tech disc 4-5 times a week but starting to get realy cold here in Sweden now. Bit slippery "ice" today. hehe. Great channel.

@ it’s very easy to see wobble on slow motion recording mode on the phone, even 3 deg looks like a lot in slow motion depending on the angle. So if it’s too cold outside you can still reduce that wobble throwing into a net and seeing how wobbly it is on film. I just combined it with putting practice to keep it fun. Putt a stack a few times, flick the stack of putters with a really compact short motion like I explained, then back to putting, etc. FH is harder on the elbow even with good form, but of course even worse with bad form. My elbows were conditioned from racket sports and climbing already thankfully so they aren’t bothered by it so far. Baseball pitching probably has the best info on how to prehab and prevent elbow pain for FH. Like certain exercises and stuff.

@@loudlawnmower lol, it was raining so I had to find a covered area

@@8Photoman_ it’s also easy to get stalling shots from nose neutral if the launch angle is too high, you can see it in the Simon robot video where they test out different nose angles. So, for some people that’s a bigger issue than nose angle and they just need to get the launch angle more controlled.

@@hiking7521 hell yeah dude!! Keep it up.

@disc-golf-neil my speed is now at 55mph. I feel that it's mostly arm. I'm having a hard time with the "feeling" for the timing of the brace and the throw. I've done 3 different in-person coaches and don't want to say names but it's clicking with your videos the most.

@@hiking7521 When you say it’s mostly arm feeling, are you not feeling that upper back stretch with the protraction during the throw? To me that’s more using the bigger muscles and back than the arm. What’s your issue with brace timing? Jumping the gun? I probably do that to some extent still but not so badly that it’s super noticeable, but I at least always wait to feel the brace land before try to do any part of the throw.

@disc-golf-neil I feel the protraction and feel solid with what you explained in the video...with my forearm limp. I feel my lower body loose and bot like a tree trunk or one solid unit with my upper body. Maybe that's what's it supposed to feel like? I feel like i pull my arm to fast even though my foot is planted a 1/2 second before I pull...sometime I'm sure I start pulling before or sometime as my foot plants. I feel that I'm not getting that power. I'm very active guy with the same body and age as you if that helps

@ yeah the pulling too fast is tough, I haven’t found a great solution to it. When I try to delay it I’m more likely to yank it late. But the main thing I’ve been focusing on is just trying to make sure I’m more focused on the scapular protraction and the body pulling the arm first and the elbow bending automatically instead of trying to help the elbow bend, then the arm kicks in after that instead of forcing things early. Other than that, in addition to the scapular protraction stuff, I’ve also tried: 1. Focusing on feeling like I’m trying to reach back just a tiny bit further when I feel the plant so that I don’t pull instantly. 2. Focusing on trying to curl my wrist only when I feel the plant land and not do anything else with the arm other then scapular protraction, it gives you something to focus on that is also useful to do but isn’t a full arm pull type thought. I actually had some good results with this one and might want to try it again. 3. Trying to keep the elbow bent on the reach back, this was pretty interesting, it made me focus even more on scapular protraction during the reach back and the power pocket and internal rotation during the power pocket, because there’s nothing else to think about with the arm when you aren’t the elbow. And I think when people feel their elbow extended during the reach back, it’s easy to get more Paul happy because it can make you want to help bend your elbow on the way into the pocket and pull while doing that. It was pretty hard to not extend the elbow during the reach back out of habit, but on The ones where I kept it decently bent, it made me feel like the elbow, extending in the reach back is kind of a big distraction, because without it, I felt more clearly. The power is coming from the bigger muscles and wasn’t really missing that much power. I’m gonna mess with this again at some point. Be careful trying this slow, since it’s pretty different, you might end up accidentally doing some weird stuff.

@@djhollowman9567 appreciate it, good luck!

Because of this video I went from 250' to my first 300' throw!!!!!! And my first 1000 spin

309'

Found it. Her first tip. m.th-cam.com/video/foYvNx5XozY/w-d-xo.html

@@brianc1651 holyn handley has a protiptuesday reel on IG mentioning to ‘bear hug’ in the pocket.

@@aylarue1536 let me know how it feels when you try it! I had to revisit it / put extra focus on it multiple times to feel like I really started taking advantage of it.

I think it could help with that but it all depends of course on what other issues you have and how you practice to break and form habits. For example, if you don’t coil or brace well, you might not feel like you get power without arming the disc, so this might not help a lot in that case since you don’t have power from other places. However, if your coiling and bracing is decent then I think this could help feel less need to arm the disc, but to actually break the habit you’d still need a lot of practice probably. Like throwing slow lots of reps with this scapular protraction feeling and gradually increasing the speed until you can do the new form at higher speeds. Side note, I think if the arm is in a good position, trying to arm the disc for BH isn’t all that dangerous if it’s not already damaged / limited. I don’t really feel that much added strain when I’ve tested more arming cues for a while, but if your elbow is pinned to down and to the side then arming the disc is cranking way too much on external rotation. And if your arm is injured / limited then you may still need PT and training even if you fix form.

Thank you for the very thoughtful and thorough response. It gives me some things to consider!

Good to hear. How did it feel different in your swings when you tried it?

Oh sick I’ll, check that Luke Taylor vid. Can’t wait to see more of him in the upcoming seasons.

@ Yea check it out and tell me what you think. I screen recorded it so I could slow it down even more. When you freeze it on his pull through you can really really see it.

Thanks. “I’ll be protracting my scapula tomorrow” 🤣 Let me know how it feels.

@ I will lyk!.. Still waiting for my practice fields to reopen after Helene.. it’s a drag to have to drive 40 minutes to practice.. now’s probably a good time to get that net I was considering;) So, i have thrown a few shots on the course being conscious of protracting the shoulder,..early releases were happening, and I feel like it’s a matter of reps and sensory/video feedback to get it working and learned.. and smooth. And then, once the swing is smooth again, I’m dying to learn those very nose down throws!;) I’m sure you get asked a lot, but are you doing form critiques? Thanks for starting your channel- people have clearly noticed the dgimportant concepts, the clean presentation, and the timing! (Just what I need, right when I need it:)! Generous of you to be here for us.

@ I’ll probably get more into coaching and form reviews soonish. But I’m still trying a lot of stuff and deciding what I think about some things, so I’m wanting to settle in a bit more before getting more into coaching. As for the early release, it’s bound to happen when working on new stuff but it could be a lot of things as well. Some people have gotten used to rounding and releasing later and adjusted their aim point and stance to align for that, and then when they round less they miss early more. So double check where your runup is aligned and your brace. Maybe try adding some extra wrist curl in as well.

BTW: no I have not heard this explained so fundamentally.

It’s from ikea. Large sit stand electric. Not sure if they still have this model. Not seeing it.

Yeah you probably just gotta do lots of reps at that slow speed where you are able to do it to build up the muscle memory and then only slightly increased the speed and do lots of reps again and keep repeating that progression until you start having problems, then go 1 step down in speed and do more reps. That’s the most reliable method I feel like to introduce a new form change, but sometimes you get lucky or have a good coach that can find a cue that really connects with you and get faster results. Check out my vid a few back ‘experimental collapse cues’ where I try some stuff related to this on a friend. Perhaps having the visual markers (discs lined up on floor to think about a wider protracted swing path line to follow) might help.

If it’s true that you shouldn’t have as much of it later in advanced form I think it’s still a useful step for feeling how to create space, and like I said in the vid. I’ve focused on it a lot all the way up to 69.7mph so it’s been enough for 500 feet for me, but maybe beyond that I’d have not be so strict with it.

Seems to be diff in one hand bh topspin swings where horizontal collapse is pretty normal and doesn’t seem to be an issue. I have a short pickleball 1HBH topspin swing comparison a few vids back and I have some initial horizontal collapse in pickleball. When warming up with the pickleball paddle for DG though I try to swing more like my DG throw though.

Where does the appearance of a rounded upper back during the pocket come from if there's no protraction in the pocket?

Maybe this issue is more present in players who aren't starting out protracted. As someone with a weak spot in this area, I think I'm not even doing that. So my arm never goes from protracted to retracted at the shoulder in any part of the throw. Maybe there needs to be that transition to make this work.

Coach: What is "change in direction" here? My apologies for not knowing the answer. Is that going from backswing to swing? Or is this something mid-swing. Say going from in to out. Thank you in advance!

@@NickCarroll what I’m trying to emphasize is to focus on the timing of upper arm horizontal abduction from the beginning of the pull. David Wiggins barely gets to even 90° from pull to power pocket. His horizontal abduction is happening from the instant he applies force. He goes from near 90° to 150° at release. GG is about 165°. Get your arm moving faster than your shoulders can rotate. Make it feel like it is leading your shoulders.

@@coach_chris_taylor Awesome, thank you!