Best explanation on nose down I’ve ever heard. That demonstration with the disc sliding up your arm at the beginning of the video really made the concept click for me! Thank you so much!
I loved watching the reverse air bounces over the net. Really shows an underrated shot shape that could be useful in some cases. Heck at USDGC on the 818 foot hole with a hill in front of the tee pad might see some use here if the air bounce doesn't take too much speed off the disc.
Also under the tarp when I was getting it down it was actually hard to hit the tarp. It felt like I kept trying to throw it higher but just couldn’t do it. Maybe that’s how Isaac feels when he is always maximizing ceiling, I could see that being useful. Instead of always throwing a cautious height in low ceilings just ripping it towards the ceiling if you get the technique down knowing that it’s actually hard to get a really high apex when it’s very nose down.
great video! Isaac definetly throws like this, you almost channelled him with those throws in the field. Coverage always mentions how Isaac is one of the best at using ceilings in the woods, and that would be an artifact of this throwing style. I'm also wondering if getting the apex out of the way early is helpful for shot shaping. I would imagine there is some change in how the disc behaves right around the apex, where it starts actually gliding. So maybe getting past the apex early, smooths out the rest of the flight. Just a thought to why Isaac seems to just put a disc on a line, and it never strays.
Yeah it definitely is super interesting. When I first watched him I couldn't understand why he kept "risking" hitting the ceiling so much, but maybe it's less risk. On the course I normally throw closer to nose neutral and when I aim through a tunnel to make sure I don't hit the ceiling I usually aim cautiously low or at the ceiling but really far out because with how much longer nose neutral can rise to the apex if you are barley too close to the ceiling it's likely to hit it. But if you can consistently throw very nose down, it actually becomes difficult to throw high enough to hit the ceiling. With those throws at the tarp, for a while I kept aiming at the tarp and making it easily with room to spare and had a hard time getting it high enough to hit the tarp when it was really nose down. I probably won't try to throw like this as my normal style because it's not as natural to me, but I'll keep trying it here and there to help make throwing normal nose down feel easy in comparison.
1. Great video. 2. Being able to control nose angle (throw nose up/down) when you want would be invaluable. Have you worked on this? Nose down is great for throwing over obstacles and for maximum distance but nose up is great for long flat shots with low ceilings. 3. I suspect that disc stability is actually "simulated nose angle." Stable discs have a profile such that when thrown flat, they present a "nose up" profile, and understable discs present a "nose down" profile. To see this, get a very overstable disc and hold it nose down. Then get a very understable disc and hold it nose up. When you compare the front profiles of the discs in this orientation, you will see that they are the same.
Yeah I've practice nose angle control a lot since I got the tech disc but I don't think nose up is ideal for tunnel shots, only if the ceiling is insanely low like if you are out of position. Nose neutral with a very slight upwards launch angle is great, or a slightly higher launch angle and nose down is also great, both can get you about the same distance. People don't realize that and think nose down will lose you distance in a tunnel but it's all about hitting the apex at the right height (close to the ceiling without hitting it) in both cases which is what helps maximize the distance. Nose up will be less aerodynamic than nose neutral and nose down and slow down faster--but sometimes it's the best option if the ceiling is insanely low. That's interesting about the disc stability profiles. Nose down does make a disc turn more easily as well.
@@disc-golf-neil I think you're right: I should say being able to throw nose down or nose neutral is beneficial. I have a natural -8 to -10 nose down backhand (my arms are crooked, long story), but my forehand is more neutral (-1 to +2). Long low ceiling shots are so much easier with my forehand, but it's possible that I just suck at finding the apex with my backhand.
@@sabrewolf479 Yeah, I think it's less intuitive to hit the right apex with nose down because you have to feel like you are throwing into the ceiling which most people cannot commit to. Hence that practice where I'm throwing at the tarp to force myself to get used to it. And this is why Isaac gets so many flights that look like he's thrown right into the ceiling but then 'magically' stop rising and hit the apex before hitting the ceiling. If you throw a normal height like you would on a nose neutral shot it def will lose you distance b/c the apex will be so much lower on the nose down shot without the higher launch angle.
One more observation: when you throw nose up, your elevation angle (throwing up or down) is magnified a lot so it makes achieving your desired height difficult. For example (random numbers), if you throw 5 degrees nose up, you might need to throw only a 5 degrees of elevation to achieve 20 feet of height. In other words, the difference between 5 ft of height and 20ft of height is just a few degrees of elevation so small mistakes in elevation get magnified with nose up. The exact opposite is true when you throw nose down. Nose down discs are less sensitive to elevation error.
techdisc.com/live then select the events and you can then click on their names. Some of the more recent ones have a video icon next to some of their throws, if you click on that throw you can then switch from the sim to the video of their throw.
Try to make small changes to your form instead of changing form altogether. If you're comfortable in that form, keep it. Just make adjustments to it as you see them. Best way is to film yourself and you'll see where you need to correct. Main thing to remember is keep your elbow up and follow through in a smooth line.
@brandongreen9381 But my philosophy is that the more moves you know, the more control you will eventually have. At one point you will settle on something.
@@AxisDiscPowers that’s been my approach too. Simple example is in putting, I practice both more spin and more of a spush style. Instead of it making me only decent at both instead of a better putter at one, there have been transferable skills from each that have actually made both styles improve. E.,g my spush putts gained for spin and power from the wrist and my spin putts started getting a very subtle arm lift motion from my spush putts which has helped with clean releases and less left / right missed.
Best explanation on nose down I’ve ever heard. That demonstration with the disc sliding up your arm at the beginning of the video really made the concept click for me! Thank you so much!
I loved watching the reverse air bounces over the net. Really shows an underrated shot shape that could be useful in some cases. Heck at USDGC on the 818 foot hole with a hill in front of the tee pad might see some use here if the air bounce doesn't take too much speed off the disc.
Also under the tarp when I was getting it down it was actually hard to hit the tarp. It felt like I kept trying to throw it higher but just couldn’t do it.
Maybe that’s how Isaac feels when he is always maximizing ceiling, I could see that being useful. Instead of always throwing a cautious height in low ceilings just ripping it towards the ceiling if you get the technique down knowing that it’s actually hard to get a really high apex when it’s very nose down.
Awesome video
great video! Isaac definetly throws like this, you almost channelled him with those throws in the field. Coverage always mentions how Isaac is one of the best at using ceilings in the woods, and that would be an artifact of this throwing style.
I'm also wondering if getting the apex out of the way early is helpful for shot shaping. I would imagine there is some change in how the disc behaves right around the apex, where it starts actually gliding. So maybe getting past the apex early, smooths out the rest of the flight. Just a thought to why Isaac seems to just put a disc on a line, and it never strays.
Yeah it definitely is super interesting. When I first watched him I couldn't understand why he kept "risking" hitting the ceiling so much, but maybe it's less risk.
On the course I normally throw closer to nose neutral and when I aim through a tunnel to make sure I don't hit the ceiling I usually aim cautiously low or at the ceiling but really far out because with how much longer nose neutral can rise to the apex if you are barley too close to the ceiling it's likely to hit it.
But if you can consistently throw very nose down, it actually becomes difficult to throw high enough to hit the ceiling. With those throws at the tarp, for a while I kept aiming at the tarp and making it easily with room to spare and had a hard time getting it high enough to hit the tarp when it was really nose down.
I probably won't try to throw like this as my normal style because it's not as natural to me, but I'll keep trying it here and there to help make throwing normal nose down feel easy in comparison.
Nice vid
1. Great video.
2. Being able to control nose angle (throw nose up/down) when you want would be invaluable. Have you worked on this? Nose down is great for throwing over obstacles and for maximum distance but nose up is great for long flat shots with low ceilings.
3. I suspect that disc stability is actually "simulated nose angle." Stable discs have a profile such that when thrown flat, they present a "nose up" profile, and understable discs present a "nose down" profile. To see this, get a very overstable disc and hold it nose down. Then get a very understable disc and hold it nose up. When you compare the front profiles of the discs in this orientation, you will see that they are the same.
Yeah I've practice nose angle control a lot since I got the tech disc but I don't think nose up is ideal for tunnel shots, only if the ceiling is insanely low like if you are out of position. Nose neutral with a very slight upwards launch angle is great, or a slightly higher launch angle and nose down is also great, both can get you about the same distance.
People don't realize that and think nose down will lose you distance in a tunnel but it's all about hitting the apex at the right height (close to the ceiling without hitting it) in both cases which is what helps maximize the distance. Nose up will be less aerodynamic than nose neutral and nose down and slow down faster--but sometimes it's the best option if the ceiling is insanely low.
That's interesting about the disc stability profiles. Nose down does make a disc turn more easily as well.
@@disc-golf-neil I think you're right: I should say being able to throw nose down or nose neutral is beneficial. I have a natural -8 to -10 nose down backhand (my arms are crooked, long story), but my forehand is more neutral (-1 to +2). Long low ceiling shots are so much easier with my forehand, but it's possible that I just suck at finding the apex with my backhand.
@@sabrewolf479 Yeah, I think it's less intuitive to hit the right apex with nose down because you have to feel like you are throwing into the ceiling which most people cannot commit to. Hence that practice where I'm throwing at the tarp to force myself to get used to it. And this is why Isaac gets so many flights that look like he's thrown right into the ceiling but then 'magically' stop rising and hit the apex before hitting the ceiling. If you throw a normal height like you would on a nose neutral shot it def will lose you distance b/c the apex will be so much lower on the nose down shot without the higher launch angle.
One more observation: when you throw nose up, your elevation angle (throwing up or down) is magnified a lot so it makes achieving your desired height difficult. For example (random numbers), if you throw 5 degrees nose up, you might need to throw only a 5 degrees of elevation to achieve 20 feet of height. In other words, the difference between 5 ft of height and 20ft of height is just a few degrees of elevation so small mistakes in elevation get magnified with nose up. The exact opposite is true when you throw nose down. Nose down discs are less sensitive to elevation error.
Are you able to search for pros tech disc data? If so, where can you find this?
techdisc.com/live then select the events and you can then click on their names. Some of the more recent ones have a video icon next to some of their throws, if you click on that throw you can then switch from the sim to the video of their throw.
Great video. I am constantly changing form which makes it impossible to play discgolf, but why not screw things up with this too.😊
Haha, I know that feeling.
Try to make small changes to your form instead of changing form altogether. If you're comfortable in that form, keep it. Just make adjustments to it as you see them. Best way is to film yourself and you'll see where you need to correct. Main thing to remember is keep your elbow up and follow through in a smooth line.
@brandongreen9381 If you just flip through my shorts you can see that I do very deliberate form work and experimentation.
@brandongreen9381 But my philosophy is that the more moves you know, the more control you will eventually have. At one point you will settle on something.
@@AxisDiscPowers that’s been my approach too.
Simple example is in putting, I practice both more spin and more of a spush style. Instead of it making me only decent at both instead of a better putter at one, there have been transferable skills from each that have actually made both styles improve. E.,g my spush putts gained for spin and power from the wrist and my spin putts started getting a very subtle arm lift motion from my spush putts which has helped with clean releases and less left / right missed.