I keep reflecting on the unique movement that came behind Jennifer's body. It's an amazing touchstone on changing perspectives and the type of fuckery Hollywood was full of...and is still full of.
The craziest thing about black swan is that beth and nina are three years apart but everyone pretends that beth's some old woman who's one dance away from breaking her hip
Its unfortunately such a common mindset in certain sports. For example, if you look at female ice skaters, the talk around certain skaters is like they’re reaching their 80s when they’re barely into their twenties. It also doesn’t help that they’re starting the olympic track at younger ages. Meanwhile, their male colleagues do not get treated the same way and most perform up until late twenties/thirties.
I always thought the original Scream was oddly empowering. Especially the "Not in my movie" line, and the fact that the final girl did have sex but still managed to outwit her attackers, linking not her virginity to her survival, but instead her intelligence and survival skills. How it tbh should've been all along. She ALSO wasn't the only woman who survived the plot.
Yes!! I love Scream. And also, I really appreciate the fact that she figured out who Ghostface really was early on. She trusted her gut until she was told otherwise. She was smart!
Usually, the horror genre has teenagers that act like jerks, so you're not supposed to feel too bad when they killed off. Scream was unique to me because I liked almost everybody in the cast. Especially Tatum played by Rose McGowan.
And the other surviving woman is an actual, well, *adult* (thus presumably also not a 'maiden'/virgin,) and if I recall at least a little more morally ambiguous than the younger characters? Either way, she's not a 'good girl' and she still comes out alive.
The Shining is obviously a great movie and a horror classic. But the fact that filming was so traumatic for Shelley Duvall enrages me. Kubrick would've never tortured a male actor in such a way; what he did to her was a literal crime. He was a douchebag and nothing will ever change that.
It’s seriously pissed me off. If you can’t separate your film from reality as a director you have no place in showbuiz. Actors are supposed to act, not actually live through their movies. I wonder how many horror movies are made just to satisfy men’s sick and twisted fantasies.
Well, Green Inferno was worse and is also a garbage waste of a shock movie. Not that I disagree , but at least the product she suffered for is.... Decent in comparison? If that makes sense. I remember reading somewhere that Nicholson was also very uncomfortable proceeding because of how often he was seeing Shelley break down on set. This wasn't a direct quote, though so I don't know how true it is overall.
@@existenceispain4333 KoFF KoFF , clockwork orange replacing a marble statue of a woman with a figurine of a penis. Pretty blatantly mysogynist to add a poor metaphor. I know Clockwork orange overall has a moral but I think Kubrick's interpretation of it is overrated and skewed the message with slight details that he didn't even GRASP were IMPORTANT. Oof. Haven't seen the movie in a long time because it's so ass but I read the book before and after watching it and remember thinking how half of it missed the point but somehow ended up in the same moral 🤷
Uhhh not to justify Shelly's treatment but Kubrick was a notorious asshole. The star of clock work orange had eye issues from the brainwashing scene so yes Kubrick tortured male and female actors
I love how you add captions! It makes it way easier for me to understand what is going on, and most huge you-tubers don’t have correct captions, so thank you!
Same. Most TH-camrs don't think about these things. Auto captions are mostly trash. I hate how they pulled community captions so a lot of creators don't even bother now.
It’s important to mention ableism when discussing this topic… (esp when mentioning intersectional feminism) Ableism is rampant and often ignored. Specifically in horror, disabled people are made to be “scary” or the villain time and time again.
I recently watched Pet Semetary with my partner. The depiction of Zelda (Rachel's sister, who suffered from spinal meningitis) stuck with me for a couple of days. I had a pretty bad year health wise and was struggling with the idea of becoming a burden to the people around me, so the incredibly unsympathetic handling rubbed me the wrong way. I can sympathize with the idea that having to care for her disabled sister as a child was traumatizing for Rachel. But there's the deliberate decision to cast the role of a sick teenage girl with a man in order to make her seem like an other, like monster (which, to me, also brings the discussion about transphobia into the mix). As a person who identified with Zelda, despite the film doing its damnest to keep me from doing so, those scenes were beyond uncomfortable.
THE WAY IVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU TO TALK ABOUT THIS !! Horror movies and the way they depict women has always gotten to me. Especially considering how s3x ALWAYS makes its way into how women are k!lled in these movies. I'm really glad you mentioned how the horror genre has always had a lot of sexism and racism throughout it.
@@uncannybits2571 I don’t think so, in many movies it’s almost framed as if it was a consequence. Of course they always make it clear they’re the victim to the monster, but they don’t tend to portray them as innocent.
@@ye3346 not sure which movies come to your mind but you’re probably referring to the inciting incident. a lot of horror movies have main characters that are not 100% good or 100% bad but flawed, especially when our main character are teenagers obviously they’re still learning right from wrong. People tend not to look at her in a positive light and I’ve never understood it. You can see the lead in a romcom do something very bad to inside a story and by the end of the day learned a lesson, and they’re not a bad person I just made a decision and influence of stuff. That’s just how movies work action and consequence. Just because there’s a consequence doesn’t even mean the action was bad it just means that set something into motion. Further more, As a closeted bi kid when I was growing up I really connected to a lot of horror movies and they’re hidden themes in a way that I couldn’t with other movies. I wasn’t in a spot where I could just watch movies about gay people being gay but I could watch movies about monsters having trouble revealing themselves to people close to them, and such. Just like any genre I’m sure you can pick out themes of sexism and racism and able ism but it really pains me to see when people pick on the horror genre in particular seeing as how it is a genre created by people in those situations, but at times co-opted by well posers lol. Truly sorry for the long response this is something that’s very important to me.
@@Grace-vy2fj sex as a punishment? I don’t know what films you have in mind, something from the slasher genre maybe? Friday the 13th? while sex in horror can be seen as a marker on a woman character to be killed That is just a trope, but if we lend ourselves to think bigger picture. Ie what that trope means, Why does a woman, or most usually a teenage girl rather, have to die after she has sex? And more over why does a teenage girl that does not have sex get to live? The message is a cruel one about how the world WRONGLY views women and girls, but still it is how the world mostly views us, in the lens of after they have sex they are no longer desirable- dead in sexual terms. I feel like that trope was so prevalent in the 80s because women were coming into their sexuality and society was really pushing back against them and that’s more why we don’t see that trope as much today. It’s still an issue just not as much of an issue as it was then. People have changed their minds came around and there’s new hard-hitting issues at the front of everyone’s mind.
ah this video is great! being a female horror fan is so exhausting, ur stuck between defending it when people say the whole genre is misogynistic, and being disgusted at the films that actually are misogynistic. but even when it’s bad it’s kinda the only genre that explores gender in depth
the Black Christmas remake isn't necessarily bad because it portrays feminist themes...it's bad because it doesn't do a good job at portraying feminist themes.
this!! i LOVE the idea they were going for. but the execution was subpar, at best. i watched it with my moms' boyfriend, who is completely ignorant to feminism and says shit like "if women just didnt worry so much about what men have and they dont, they'd realize the world isnt that bad". he laughed at a lot of the feminist parts, and genuinely thought they were jokes rather than actual critiques. and ngl, i laughed at some of them too- the movie almost felt like it was written by someone who's only exposure to feminism is buzzfeed. the intentions were probably good, but they came off so poorly that it almost feels like parody. which i really hate, because the idea sounds badass- it would have been a great way to introduce a lot of men to feminism too. but instead, it kinda reinforced stereotypes and the idea that feminism is kind of a joke also, off topic, and ignore this if you dont feel comfortable answering ofc, but do you actually go by LJ as a nickname or something? i ask because im trans and thats the name i picked for myself when i was like 12 and didnt really understand why i wanted to change my name, so i just used my initials for the longest. i dont think ive ever seen anyone else use it since, so i just got slapped in the face with nostalgia lmaoo
@@somedude172 no worries! uhh long story short I needed my account name to not be too wild bc it connects to my main gmail, but my name is very uncommon & would be very recognizable, so LJ it is lol. I dont usually tell ppl to call me LJ, but i dont mind when they do. idk if i explained this well, sorry lol
Excellent video. Though I wish there had been room for how "Alien"'s themes were meant to make the fear of involuntary pregnancy and oral violation tangible for men, because when I found out quite some years ago I fucking CACKLED. It all made sense. I had loved the movie before, I loved it even more intensely after. Here was a man who had looked at women's fears and went "that's horrific, I'mma make those guys real uncomfortable". The only other movie that has so viscerally resonated with me is probably "Promising Young Woman".
Im a trans man, and an intense fear of pregnancy comes with the territory. Whenever I was trying to describe that fear to others, the first thing my mind went to was Alien. It just described that fear so perfectly that it was the best analogy to use. Something growing inside of you, bursting out, causing irreparable damage.... lol, it's not surprising the film was specifically trying to describe that fear.
@@foxcheetah6035 I'm a cis lesbian but I also have that fear of pregnancy although mine focuses on r**e so horror movies are weirdly cathartic to watch for me.
I took the ending of Black Swan to mean that Nina reached her goal, but at the cost of everything else. She bent herself to please Thomas, her mom, the expectations of everyone in her dance community and it killed her. But - she was the Black Swan. So Nina reached her career goal, dying at the peak moment of her life, will never experience the decline into obscurity Wynona Rider's character had, and we're left to decide if it was worth it.
I love that you covered this topic! In my last semester of college I took a class on horror films and it was my fav. That professor wrote a book called “Recreational Terror” about the horror genre and her theories of why so many women enjoy it. Something I’ve found fascinating is the popularity of true crime among women; I think the appeal may be for similar reasons. Why do so many of us enjoy hearing about or watching such horrifying things? Do we in some way feel like we’re learning how to survive, if we were ever in those situations? (Semi rhetorical questions lmao)
I know this comments a year old but as someone who’s both queer and afab I wanna throw my hat into the ring. I think another reason why is a sense of catharsis, especially in more niche horror circles and mediums. Like especially today there’s a lot of horror stories (mostly in video games) that can be very empathetic to a lot of struggles and trauma that may have been faced by queer people and women.
You didn't have to explain the turtleneck + bustier because I think it's a hot look 🔥 you could have just gone with it. Once you've pulled off a beard, you can get away with anything imo
Not a feminist horror movie in the sense of seeing women struggle against patriarchy, but definitely one in focusing on women and their experience: Annihilation (2018). It follows five women scientists who are sent into a mysterious area that fractures reality, and soon it turns out that it also fractures them and uses their trauma against them. Its such a good metaphor for mental illness, and truly haunting
@@machinegirl03 two friends and I watched the movie and we didn’t understand what the fuck was going on whatsoever, and I forgot that I watched it for the longest time, it felt like a fever dream.
It has its flaws but there are a lot of masterpiece scenes throughout it. With a little more time in the oven so to speak I think it would have faired better as a movie. I just think a concept like that is hard to explain in two hours.
i just wanna add that darren “fuck you“ aronofsky, of black swan fame, is known to treat his young lead actresses similarly terrible to how kubrick treated shelley duvall, so that’s fun. i love horror.
I loved the movie “Invisible Man” since it portrayed the experience through the main character’s story that drove her to desperation to prove she wasn’t crazy and that her husband was out to get her. It was amazing to see that experience through chillingly silent scenes when she was escaping the control of her abusive husband. The mental, social and physical torment he put her through was depicted really well. I’ve also watched ‘Black Christmas’ and I really enjoyed the Christmas jingle song that was in it about female agency but I now think I should check out the older one.
I spent my entire summer writing an 80 page thesis on minorities (specifically women, LGBTQ+ individuals, and black individuals) in the horror film so I am excited to see your thoughts!!!! happy halloween!!!!
@@a.alphonso6193 not yet, i plan to expand on it when i go to graduate school next year! the most interesting findings were just how deep and developed many of the movies are, despite what one may see on the surface. i also came to the conclusion that the genre is one made for and by minorities, the genre has more minorities front and center than many other genres!
horror is such a thorny topic to critique bc not only does a lot of horror rely on misogynistic and racist tropes, but ableism also tends to be rampant in the genre too. from the concept of ~~psycho~~ killers w the insinuation of mental illness, to the heavy usage of body horror/disfigurement..... there's just a lot to unpack in this genre lol really enjoyed this analysis of """feminist""" horror and where it succeeds and where it fails. I especially enjoyed your reading of Black Swan, as I was too young to pick up on Thomas taking advantage of Nina when I watched it and I found the ending too disturbing to bring myself to revisit it since. P.S. thank you for acknowledging Kubrick is the worst. far too many ppl gush about The Shining without mentioning his abuse. P.P.S. your outfit is super cute!!
The treatment of women in horror is so disturbing, like here I am trying to enjoy an nice slasher film and all you have given me is misogyny and a higher than thou rhetoric. Can’t we have the spook in a feminist way, no need for the gaslight gatekeep girlboss, they need to hang it up.
Thanks so much for this upload, and I adore your bunny costume! 🐰💕 It's a shame that the Final Girl is normal white, straight and cisgender, but more recent movies, such as "Fear Street Trilogy" and "There's Someone Inside your House" are allowing people of colour and who are LGBTQA Plus to survive the movie!
American horror movies have always made killing sexy, witch rubs me the wrong way. There’s always very young women that’s being objectified through the male gaze and the storytelling want you to be attracted to her first, then make you watch someone scare her, HUNT HER and in the end kill her. It cannot be healthy and I cannot understand how so many people watch it. It’s so wrong and so sad to me.
I think it's less "make killing sexy" and more "make woman dying/suffering/being 'punished' sexy." There is such a thing that when the female character in media got assaulted, the camera will pan on them in a suggestive way, creeps up her thighs or close up on her on the ground with tears and heavy breathing and such. And if it's an anime, then add in some bouncy breasts with fabric clinging on them while she's about to get r@ped. I don't know if that is what 'torture porn' is, but I'm sure that's fetishizing female suffering in a way. Edit: typos
@@drendraleigh4722 so many movies where the female lead gets raped and dies and the guy in love takes revenge , usually after a physical transformation like becoming more muscular
It is unfortunate that Jack Torrance was depicted as he was in the film. In the book, Jack had a drinking problem and an anger management problem, but he was not a chronic abuser of Danny or Wendy. There was no indication that Danny's injury was anything other than a one-time occurrence (although it cannot be "excused" by any means). In the book, the Torrances were a genuinely loving family. Jack actively fought to stave off the influence of the Overlook. He even smashed his own face to pulp knowing that he wouldn't be able to stay in control in order to lessen the impact on Danny of the violence that he was likely to witness. Jack lost his battle, but he resisted long enough for his family to escape. Stephen King eventually came to terms with the film but the main reason that he was so unhappy about it for so long was the inaccurate portrayal of a character who was carefully crafted and who meant a lot to him.
that's why I love the book but dislike the film because it's so one dimensional and doesn not show the depth of Jack's character. I liked him in the book. at least he was trying to save his family from himself
I also love The Witch and Babadook. One about the demonization of womanhood and viewing nature as a villain and therefore female nature as well. The other for the grief of long term postpartum depression and loss of a loved one and forced motherhood.
Black Swan really f*cked w my head and was hard to watch bc it's so accurate of how life is and its literally how it is to be a ballerina and other professions like acting, being a model...
Personally I thought the ending of black Swan was literal in her actually dying, because it just makes sense to me with the plot. But I don't think it negates anything when looked at with a feminist lens. I thought her death perfectly encapsulated the critique abt how these power structures beat women into submission on all fronts. Movies dont necessarily need to have a happy end to be a critique.
When i finished it last night I didnt think there was any debate that she died until reading forums about it, which is great. I love seeing different interpretations of a piece. But i assumed she died because she IS symbolically the character odette, and she dies just like in the dance from chasing after perfection and being obsessed to become and compete with the black swan/seductress, and ultimately that's a self destructive toil.
You hit the nail on the end with The Shining. Even at 9 yr old, I could clearly see the writing on the wall: this isn't about a haunting...this is something worse: domestic violence.
I can't believe it's been so long and I am STILL waiting for an iconic female slasher who kills just for the hell of it. It's always "my baby/family died" or "I was r*ped" or "I'm not actually the one in control here its some virus or demon" like women are just incapable of fcking around sometimes. But we are!!! The WORST for me is Jason Voorhees, who is actually supposed to be Jason's _mother_ because Jason _himself_ died as a literal CHILD. But I guess it's more realistic that a ghost child somehow got a buff adult male body and decided to kill people with a random mask and machete than it is for a tormented adult woman to be buff and overpower men :////
I’ve been obsessed with the dissection ‘feminist horror’ for the past few months, so this video could not be more made for me!!! As always, you killed it, Shan
One of my favorite horror movies is The Shining. I really picked up some feminist themes in that movie. Wendy did all the work at the hotel while Jack just sat there writing nonsense and throwing tantrums. The she is a victim of abuse who is able to save her child and escape in the end. Its not a perfect movie, but it's pretty based for 1980.
I’m glad you made this video! There are definitely positive, entertaining, and satisfying tropes in horror like “the final girl” or the bullied character delivering justice. That being said, we cannot disregard the negative aspects of horror such as people of color and queer people having little representation in the genre; or the norm of women being killed off as a result of their sexually active presence.
I couldn’t agree more….I love watching movies like “Halloween, the shining, scream etc. But sometimes it bothers me because of all the sexist, racist and homophobic things tht exist within the horror genre/ movies…. Which means sometimes I can’t fully enjoy it ……🥺
what interests me most is that horror properties that are considered feminist are more often than not created by men who did not intend for their films to be interpreted through a feminist lens. think 2015’s the vvitch for example, the director robert eggers has stated in interviews that when writing, feminist themes weren’t a priority but in the end they still made their way into the film
When she said “women must not age” I felt that lmao damn girl, I love your videos. You offer new perspectives that I have not thought of myself and I appreciate that 👍🏽
Like others are saying, thank you for the captions! I don't know if this is related to the topic but it was interesting watching this video after having an internet .... discussion about how Carrie was not the villain. Arguably, an anti-hero but not a hero or villain. Mostly because she was getting revenge for her mistreatment and falls probably under the "women are crazy" narrative our society has. But just my opinion.
As a lifelong horror fan, I'm trying to think of a "feminist" horror movie and the only one I can think of (atm) is Hard Candy. Not only do you have a young girl stalking a predator after someone she knows died, she goes back to her life after killing him. Plus all the dialogue is literally about condemning child attackers! There's also Lady Vengeance but I consider that a drama vs. horror.
I think this is a very interesting topic, I saw last night in soho and don't want to spoil it or anything but there is definitely a strong unspoken narrative about being a young woman and simply trying to exist in the world.
I still haven’t seen Black Swan because I’m bitter about the director copying Satoshi Kon without ever going out of his way to credit him and even denying Kon’s influence on his work. He also never corrects the misinformation that he bought the rights to Perfect Blue and excused the copying as “homages” when Satoshi Kon himself asked him about it… But your study on the movie is really intriguing lol. It made me want to give it a shot.
@@1WEareBUFO1 for real 👏 it's even more frustrating these films are critically acclaimed while the general western audience don't even know who Satoshi Kon is. Like does it really count as an "homage" if your audience won't recognize it.
Some people, at the time, argued that the "no nookie" trope was a commentary on that virus that started going around at that time. I like you're take from a feminist perspective.
I literally love how you present these topics with originality and are able to engage viewers. You’re one of my favourite youtubers, thanks for all you’re great videos!
This is DETAILED SO WELL. So happy to see someone finally touching upon intersectional aspects of feminism that people of color face in media! Brilliant! Happy halloween!
Suddenly, it makes sense why I don't like horror movies. I went through a lot of physical and emotional abuse as a kid, and I've almost never enjoyed horror films. They just make me so uncomfortable and stressed, and I don't like paying money to feel anxiety like that.
@@Courier_333 She's not comfortable and its her opinion. Exposure therapy doesn't work for everyone. Edit: I'd like to add that your comment comes off as kinda rude and victim blamey to op who is a abuse victim.
I watched Jennifer's body based on its advertising and was terrified by it BUT I'm so glad it's gotten a cult following now to undo all the damage that marketing did. Even though I never watch horror movies, I love critiques on them, this one very much included.
shan i just wanna say i shared ur mommy issues video with my dad bc he’s been wanting to understand women’s issues in general recently and he loved your video ❤️❤️❤️ you are such an approachable creator and i’m so so so thankful that you share your thoughts with us!!!
I know it’s after Halloween now, but I would absolutely watch a sequel to this about how children are used in horror movies… any time of year, it doesn’t matter
I love this essay, and it's brilliant, but - Jordayne Searles abused her boyfriend and blamed him for it, and it's been...a lot to watch. I'm parasocial in the situation, but I have to admit that I think it undermines her as a feminist critic. That said, homg the costume! The CITATIONS! This is so meticulous and impressive!
I do always find feminist theory within the slasher subgenre very interesting since the usual read is that the weapon or tool used by the villain is an extension of their own penis, or replacement thereof, where they must stab and mutilate women in order to replicate sex (rape obv). When slasher villains see people having sex, they are frustrated and angered by it so much since they themselves have been denied sexual pleasure that they must rape the women with their knife. Moreover, films like Halloween and Nightmare On Elm Street gave the perspective that not a lot of mainstream movies were willing to give at the time, that women were and are surrounded by misogynist violence all throughout their lives, and that society is inherently patriarchal and suffocating towards sexually liberated women. And I do think that in some ways, with all the context and symbology being understood, that ‘final girls’ can be interpreted either as strong, independent figures who are able to actualize their potency to fight the boogeymen, or are characterized by the acquisition of heteronormative, stereotypical male characteristics, thus making them figureheads to be critiqued as their own survival necessitates the need to “man up.”
Thanks Rusty! I’m hopelessly in love with the horror genre and I understand that there are definitely lots of things that must be addressed within those kinds of films, so I just like to give my personal perspective :)
Uh, no. You just have a really, really dirty mind. Ah yes, it is so suffocating towards sexually liberated women, yet society promotes being a w****. I think not.
Sorry Shanspeare for commenting again, but I would just like to post some Halloween songs: Thriller - Michael Jackson Somebody's Watching Me - Rockwell and Jermaine and Michael Jackson I Put a Spell on You - Various artists This is Halloween - Danny Elfman Michael Myers/Halloween Theme song - John Carpenter Is It Scary - Michael Jackson I'm Going Slightly Mad - Queen Flick of The Wrist - Queen Heads will Roll - Yeah Yeah Yeahs Dead Man's Party - Oingo Boingo Haunted Mansion Theme Song - Buddy Baker and X. Atencio Monster - Kanye West Disturbia - Rihanna Love Song for a Vampire - Annie Lennox Scary Monsters - David Bowie (and Nine Inch Nails) Halloween - Siouxie Sioux and The Banshees
GREAT VIDEO!! the phallic metaphors are so interesting to me, and it takes me back to my mortal enemy, freud. that token phrase about everything about sex except sex itself, which is about power. and penetration meaning loss of power, agency, respect. like yeah sure sexuality is great we all love having sex etc etc but there’s social connotations to the act of having penetrative sex. sex and violence, sex and power. are they forever linked? are they not?
Loved this video! I share most of your opinions and think that any genre can be feminist or critical to oppression depending on the analysis... as you said, things are rarely just black and white.
Subjective, personal feeling only: I feel the female main character has to both survive and thrive in order for it to be impact-fully feminist. (If she's way too traumatized and will never live an ok life, it's worse than her dying to me.) At the end of "Jennifer's Body", Needy is nuts, but has superpowers and is well enough to still take out the whole rock band during the end credits. In contrast to the 2000's "When a Stranger Calls", the main has to spend the rest of her life re-living her attack in a mental institution.
Why does a scary movie have to portray feminism as rainbows and sunshine for women when real life is never like that? movies don't need to empower everyone when it's just entertainment.
Traumatized and mentally ill women exist in real life and deserve to be represented. I think the root problem is actually ableism. The idea that once youve been traumatized, your life will forever be horrible is an ableist and discouraging thing. Perhaps the problem with your second example is not that her trauma is at fault for keeping her unempowered, but that ableism is. As Shanspeare says in this video, feminism is intersectional, and if a woman is marginalized in an additional way, that too must be considered. Ableism is a huge factor to consider, especially in the horror genre where it is often sensationalized and demonized. So perhaps a more feminist ending to When a Stranger Calls would be showing the main very much traumatized, but with hope of a better life ahead, instead of being locked away in an institution
Excellent essay, and your comments on the 2019 Black Christmas is spot-on. You perfectly managed to put into words my problem with it, which I could never quite articulate. I also feel like the way it tries to engage with the original film is misguided. I wouldn't call the 1974's black Christmas *feminist*, exactly, but *come on*, it didn't need a feminist "makeover" because it already engages with these themes in a rather respectful manner. Like, for starters, it actually treats its female characters like actual people who deserve sympathy, which immediately sets it apart from a lot of modern slasher movies.
i remember as a teen and young adult trying to talk to people about how theres always adult fun time and heavy female nudity in horror flicks and it doesnt belong there typically. I was always called jealous, prude and a joykill, even by women. it was honestly exhausting and I just chalked everyone up to being ignorant idiots. you cover these topics so well!
There's one horror film that explicitly addresses the "sex/promiscuity bad" trope in horror and in society, and has been discussed critically as allegorical to fearmongering about sex/promiscuity, and STIs. So, slightly different from exactly what you're addressing in this video (your particular definition of a feminist horror movie), but in some ways super relevant to the topic - _It Follows_ Has a lot of positive regard in some horror circles I've encountered
I actually really liked a lot of the movie “Lucky” that came out on Shudder that is very surreal and is ultimately about the constant violence women are subjected to both physically and also mentally from past trauma etc, and the experience of being brushed off and gaslit by society. If you view it as a narrative that follows a strict plot it doesn’t really work but something that flows like a dream and has the logic of a dream, and when viewing it like that it’s very interesting to analyze.
22:00 What's really going to bake your cookie about Linda's death in Halloween is that Michael wears the sheet and glasses because he wants her to think someone she knows is killing her.
I'd say halloween has come a long way, especially halloween 2018, where in the first Halloween it has a sex scene and all that (not nearly as much as Friday the 13th, like christ) but the 2018 version definitely uplifts its 3 final girls and does a much better job with female characters and how they're effected by things like this like seriously, Laurie becomes a much mire fleshed out character and is a complete BADASS and none of them are sexualized
I actually love that you provide definitions before getting into the rest of the video. It makes me thing and realize that I don't fully understand as much as I thought I did.
Thank you for talking about black Christmas!! It’s one of if not my favorite horror movie! And I was pleasantly surprised by the feminist undertones of it.
This is my favourite video by you so far. I LOVE the feminist lens you applied to this topic, and how nuanced your discussion of it was. Love your work 😍
As a big fan of the original Black Christmas, i think the biggest issue with the newest remake is it rushed in to production and would benefited from rewrites that fleshed out the characters and improved the nuance of the story/plot. Also those calls still creep me out.
I really enjoyed your commentary. I'm as huge horror fan who is also a Black Woman. Thank You for wonderfully articulating some of the issues I've had regarding within the Horror genre and how feminism is simultaneously reviled and lauded.
I read Rosemary's Baby earlier this month for the first time and I hve watched the movie a couple times as well, and so I had been thinking about how some of its elements could be considered feminist. I loved this video because you talk about how complex it is to consider horror or thriller genres in a feminist lens. With Rosemary's baby i questioned this cuz it was written by a man. I kept weighing that in addition to the depiction of the psychological abuse of women against whatever agency Rosemary manages to hold or weild in the process. I was mostly surprised by how insightful it seems despite being written by a man. I question whether his interpretation of emotional, psychological, and physical violence against women could be considered feminist. he also wrote the stepford wives which is interesting.
15:40 I feel like her feelings about Tomas could also be a portrayal of a trauma bond. It is a psychological response to abuse in which the victim develops sympathy and compassion for their abuser.
For me, a great example of feminist “horror” although it might be more o a suspense movie, is “promising young woman” because in that movie, we actually see the most possible outcome (sadly) of a woman fighting hand in hand against a man, and leaves us with a bittersweet ending, but what I liked the most was the fact that besides all of the horrible things Cassie went through and all of the things she did for her revenge, she still remained human and relatable, she didn’t turn into a skilled assassin in a 2 minute montage or gained supernatural powers, she did everything she could as a woman in the real world, and remained “feminine” although she was still miserable (the movie even had scenes showcasing stereotypical chick flics), but the always so cliché outcome of a woman turning edgy and badass, always wearing dark clothes and rejecting anything feminine, due to a very traumatic experience, feels inorganic and cringy; so for me, that movie will always be a masterpiece
Thank you so much for your wonderful videos! Love the structure, your personal inputs, the amazing research you do and the fact you provide such thorough description boxes!
Im absolutely obsessed with looking into the horror genre and feminism and the way you explained the different views on the intention of (implied) feminist horror movies was fantastic! I loved ur video 💕
The Fear Street trilogy on Netflix is an excellent example of feminist horror to me. Even the characters that die feel fully realized. The relationships between characters also carry more depth than most relationships as portrayed on other slasher films.
![⭐ฮิตในTikTok!! ( มะมะมะหมูเด้ง MooDeng ) Ver. แดนซ์ ReMix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4noyAoMa7bQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I keep reflecting on the unique movement that came behind Jennifer's body. It's an amazing touchstone on changing perspectives and the type of fuckery Hollywood was full of...and is still full of.
I love seeing creators I enjoy interacting with content from other creators I enjoy 😍
Agreed watching that film first back in 2010 as a kid and seeing how reflective it told the world overtime is amazing
i see u commenting everywhere
Two TH-cam legends in one place, damn
I agree with you F.D🙌🏾‼️
The craziest thing about black swan is that beth and nina are three years apart but everyone pretends that beth's some old woman who's one dance away from breaking her hip
"One dance away from breaking her hip" pleasee this made me laugh so hard 😭
No because you’re right
Holy shit
I thought they were like 10/15 years apart
Yeah that would scare the shit out of anyone
Its unfortunately such a common mindset in certain sports. For example, if you look at female ice skaters, the talk around certain skaters is like they’re reaching their 80s when they’re barely into their twenties. It also doesn’t help that they’re starting the olympic track at younger ages. Meanwhile, their male colleagues do not get treated the same way and most perform up until late twenties/thirties.
Im 18 and I would already break a hip 💀
I always thought the original Scream was oddly empowering. Especially the "Not in my movie" line, and the fact that the final girl did have sex but still managed to outwit her attackers, linking not her virginity to her survival, but instead her intelligence and survival skills. How it tbh should've been all along. She ALSO wasn't the only woman who survived the plot.
Yes!! I love Scream. And also, I really appreciate the fact that she figured out who Ghostface really was early on. She trusted her gut until she was told otherwise. She was smart!
There are earlier slashers where more than one woman survives... Slumber Party Massacre (1982) and Girl School Screamers (1986) come to mind.
@@corduroy799 I honestly never picked up on that, great catch.
Usually, the horror genre has teenagers that act like jerks, so you're not supposed to feel too bad when they killed off. Scream was unique to me because I liked almost everybody in the cast. Especially Tatum played by Rose McGowan.
And the other surviving woman is an actual, well, *adult* (thus presumably also not a 'maiden'/virgin,) and if I recall at least a little more morally ambiguous than the younger characters? Either way, she's not a 'good girl' and she still comes out alive.
the costume! the editing! the subject matter!! banger after BANGER
You were here in spirit!!!!!
Yes, yes, and YESSSSSSS🙌🏾‼️
The Shining is obviously a great movie and a horror classic. But the fact that filming was so traumatic for Shelley Duvall enrages me. Kubrick would've never tortured a male actor in such a way; what he did to her was a literal crime. He was a douchebag and nothing will ever change that.
It’s seriously pissed me off. If you can’t separate your film from reality as a director you have no place in showbuiz. Actors are supposed to act, not actually live through their movies. I wonder how many horror movies are made just to satisfy men’s sick and twisted fantasies.
milking the suffering of a woman at a man’s hand for entertainment/profit? classic.
Well, Green Inferno was worse and is also a garbage waste of a shock movie. Not that I disagree , but at least the product she suffered for is.... Decent in comparison? If that makes sense.
I remember reading somewhere that Nicholson was also very uncomfortable proceeding because of how often he was seeing Shelley break down on set. This wasn't a direct quote, though so I don't know how true it is overall.
@@existenceispain4333 KoFF KoFF , clockwork orange replacing a marble statue of a woman with a figurine of a penis. Pretty blatantly mysogynist to add a poor metaphor. I know Clockwork orange overall has a moral but I think Kubrick's interpretation of it is overrated and skewed the message with slight details that he didn't even GRASP were IMPORTANT.
Oof. Haven't seen the movie in a long time because it's so ass but I read the book before and after watching it and remember thinking how half of it missed the point but somehow ended up in the same moral 🤷
Uhhh not to justify Shelly's treatment but Kubrick was a notorious asshole. The star of clock work orange had eye issues from the brainwashing scene so yes Kubrick tortured male and female actors
I love how you add captions! It makes it way easier for me to understand what is going on, and most huge you-tubers don’t have correct captions, so thank you!
YES! I love that she does this.
YES! I’m so grateful for the captions
100% this!!
Same. Most TH-camrs don't think about these things. Auto captions are mostly trash. I hate how they pulled community captions so a lot of creators don't even bother now.
@@blissfulblues6055 What were community captions?
I am 00:26 seconds in and cannot stop howling
omg i love seeing you here
It’s important to mention ableism when discussing this topic… (esp when mentioning intersectional feminism) Ableism is rampant and often ignored. Specifically in horror, disabled people are made to be “scary” or the villain time and time again.
I was just going to comment this!!!
It’s, sadly, a conversation a lot of the horror community in particular are not willing to have. Thank you for bringing it up.
MAY sacrifices her bad eye...
I recently watched Pet Semetary with my partner. The depiction of Zelda (Rachel's sister, who suffered from spinal meningitis) stuck with me for a couple of days. I had a pretty bad year health wise and was struggling with the idea of becoming a burden to the people around me, so the incredibly unsympathetic handling rubbed me the wrong way. I can sympathize with the idea that having to care for her disabled sister as a child was traumatizing for Rachel. But there's the deliberate decision to cast the role of a sick teenage girl with a man in order to make her seem like an other, like monster (which, to me, also brings the discussion about transphobia into the mix). As a person who identified with Zelda, despite the film doing its damnest to keep me from doing so, those scenes were beyond uncomfortable.
YES!
THE WAY IVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU TO TALK ABOUT THIS !! Horror movies and the way they depict women has always gotten to me. Especially considering how s3x ALWAYS makes its way into how women are k!lled in these movies. I'm really glad you mentioned how the horror genre has always had a lot of sexism and racism throughout it.
Almost like they’re making a social political point about how women and minorities are treated in real life?
@@uncannybits2571 I don’t think so, in many movies it’s almost framed as if it was a consequence. Of course they always make it clear they’re the victim to the monster, but they don’t tend to portray them as innocent.
@@ye3346 not sure which movies come to your mind but you’re probably referring to the inciting incident. a lot of horror movies have main characters that are not 100% good or 100% bad but flawed, especially when our main character are teenagers obviously they’re still learning right from wrong. People tend not to look at her in a positive light and I’ve never understood it. You can see the lead in a romcom do something very bad to inside a story and by the end of the day learned a lesson, and they’re not a bad person I just made a decision and influence of stuff. That’s just how movies work action and consequence. Just because there’s a consequence doesn’t even mean the action was bad it just means that set something into motion.
Further more, As a closeted bi kid when I was growing up I really connected to a lot of horror movies and they’re hidden themes in a way that I couldn’t with other movies. I wasn’t in a spot where I could just watch movies about gay people being gay but I could watch movies about monsters having trouble revealing themselves to people close to them, and such. Just like any genre I’m sure you can pick out themes of sexism and racism and able ism but it really pains me to see when people pick on the horror genre in particular seeing as how it is a genre created by people in those situations, but at times co-opted by well posers lol.
Truly sorry for the long response this is something that’s very important to me.
@@uncannybits2571 My issue is the fact that s3x is used as a punishment for women in the horror genre. Especially when it's a younger woman.
@@Grace-vy2fj sex as a punishment? I don’t know what films you have in mind, something from the slasher genre maybe? Friday the 13th? while sex in horror can be seen as a marker on a woman character to be killed That is just a trope, but if we lend ourselves to think bigger picture. Ie what that trope means, Why does a woman, or most usually a teenage girl rather, have to die after she has sex? And more over why does a teenage girl that does not have sex get to live?
The message is a cruel one about how the world WRONGLY views women and girls, but still it is how the world mostly views us, in the lens of after they have sex they are no longer desirable- dead in sexual terms.
I feel like that trope was so prevalent in the 80s because women were coming into their sexuality and society was really pushing back against them and that’s more why we don’t see that trope as much today. It’s still an issue just not as much of an issue as it was then. People have changed their minds came around and there’s new hard-hitting issues at the front of everyone’s mind.
ah this video is great! being a female horror fan is so exhausting, ur stuck between defending it when people say the whole genre is misogynistic, and being disgusted at the films that actually are misogynistic. but even when it’s bad it’s kinda the only genre that explores gender in depth
Do you have any recommendations?
Could you elaborate on "explores gender in depth"? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, I just find this to be interesting
EXACTLY
Like horror is somehow simultaneously a feminist and sexist genre and trying to explain/defend both sides can be very hard
@@ollieno971 Fr
the Black Christmas remake isn't necessarily bad because it portrays feminist themes...it's bad because it doesn't do a good job at portraying feminist themes.
Yeah I'm surprised she didn't mention the victim blamey message the movie had with the main character and her biracial friend.
this!! i LOVE the idea they were going for. but the execution was subpar, at best.
i watched it with my moms' boyfriend, who is completely ignorant to feminism and says shit like "if women just didnt worry so much about what men have and they dont, they'd realize the world isnt that bad". he laughed at a lot of the feminist parts, and genuinely thought they were jokes rather than actual critiques.
and ngl, i laughed at some of them too- the movie almost felt like it was written by someone who's only exposure to feminism is buzzfeed. the intentions were probably good, but they came off so poorly that it almost feels like parody. which i really hate, because the idea sounds badass- it would have been a great way to introduce a lot of men to feminism too. but instead, it kinda reinforced stereotypes and the idea that feminism is kind of a joke
also, off topic, and ignore this if you dont feel comfortable answering ofc, but do you actually go by LJ as a nickname or something? i ask because im trans and thats the name i picked for myself when i was like 12 and didnt really understand why i wanted to change my name, so i just used my initials for the longest. i dont think ive ever seen anyone else use it since, so i just got slapped in the face with nostalgia lmaoo
@@somedude172 no worries! uhh long story short I needed my account name to not be too wild bc it connects to my main gmail, but my name is very uncommon & would be very recognizable, so LJ it is lol. I dont usually tell ppl to call me LJ, but i dont mind when they do. idk if i explained this well, sorry lol
@@somedude172 hate that i relate to that last part down to the age bruh 💀 i didnt even spell it right
@@somedude172 Thank you. The people in the movie talked like the script was written on Twitter.
Excellent video. Though I wish there had been room for how "Alien"'s themes were meant to make the fear of involuntary pregnancy and oral violation tangible for men, because when I found out quite some years ago I fucking CACKLED. It all made sense. I had loved the movie before, I loved it even more intensely after. Here was a man who had looked at women's fears and went "that's horrific, I'mma make those guys real uncomfortable". The only other movie that has so viscerally resonated with me is probably "Promising Young Woman".
Im a trans man, and an intense fear of pregnancy comes with the territory. Whenever I was trying to describe that fear to others, the first thing my mind went to was Alien. It just described that fear so perfectly that it was the best analogy to use. Something growing inside of you, bursting out, causing irreparable damage.... lol, it's not surprising the film was specifically trying to describe that fear.
@@foxcheetah6035 same here!
@@foxcheetah6035
I'm cis but I have that same fear, I never want to give birth tbh 💀
Yes for Alien. YES FOR ALIEN.
@@foxcheetah6035 I'm a cis lesbian but I also have that fear of pregnancy although mine focuses on r**e so horror movies are weirdly cathartic to watch for me.
I took the ending of Black Swan to mean that Nina reached her goal, but at the cost of everything else. She bent herself to please Thomas, her mom, the expectations of everyone in her dance community and it killed her. But - she was the Black Swan. So Nina reached her career goal, dying at the peak moment of her life, will never experience the decline into obscurity Wynona Rider's character had, and we're left to decide if it was worth it.
I love that you covered this topic! In my last semester of college I took a class on horror films and it was my fav. That professor wrote a book called “Recreational Terror” about the horror genre and her theories of why so many women enjoy it. Something I’ve found fascinating is the popularity of true crime among women; I think the appeal may be for similar reasons. Why do so many of us enjoy hearing about or watching such horrifying things? Do we in some way feel like we’re learning how to survive, if we were ever in those situations? (Semi rhetorical questions lmao)
Thank you so much for saying this I’ve also thought about that. Sometimes I feel like I’m watching to learn how to survive 🙁
Yes. We are learning to survive by studying psychos.
I know this comments a year old but as someone who’s both queer and afab I wanna throw my hat into the ring. I think another reason why is a sense of catharsis, especially in more niche horror circles and mediums. Like especially today there’s a lot of horror stories (mostly in video games) that can be very empathetic to a lot of struggles and trauma that may have been faced by queer people and women.
You didn't have to explain the turtleneck + bustier because I think it's a hot look 🔥 you could have just gone with it. Once you've pulled off a beard, you can get away with anything imo
HAHAHAAH
@@Shanspeare How is life for you right now in a alternate universe/timeline where the original felonious edit is uploaded?
@@lovelo8780 She may be demonitized or have her video taken down if enough people complain about it
Not a feminist horror movie in the sense of seeing women struggle against patriarchy, but definitely one in focusing on women and their experience: Annihilation (2018). It follows five women scientists who are sent into a mysterious area that fractures reality, and soon it turns out that it also fractures them and uses their trauma against them. Its such a good metaphor for mental illness, and truly haunting
Words can't explain how much I love Annihilation :"))))
I liked how it didn‘t overtly have to do with womanhood, but rather happened to star five women as the gender-neutral main characters.
@@machinegirl03 two friends and I watched the movie and we didn’t understand what the fuck was going on whatsoever, and I forgot that I watched it for the longest time, it felt like a fever dream.
It has its flaws but there are a lot of masterpiece scenes throughout it. With a little more time in the oven so to speak I think it would have faired better as a movie. I just think a concept like that is hard to explain in two hours.
@@thatgirlinautumn5995 so of course, reactionaries lost their shit..
i just wanna add that darren “fuck you“ aronofsky, of black swan fame, is known to treat his young lead actresses similarly terrible to how kubrick treated shelley duvall, so that’s fun. i love horror.
this makes the part where nina kisses her creepy dance director because he encouraged her sexual awakening so much worse.
I loved the movie “Invisible Man” since it portrayed the experience through the main character’s story that drove her to desperation to prove she wasn’t crazy and that her husband was out to get her. It was amazing to see that experience through chillingly silent scenes when she was escaping the control of her abusive husband. The mental, social and physical torment he put her through was depicted really well.
I’ve also watched ‘Black Christmas’ and I really enjoyed the Christmas jingle song that was in it about female agency but I now think I should check out the older one.
I was literally dying of boredom and saw your notification, you're a literal darling!!
Yay! ❤️❤️
same
Yes this video was awesome!
You're "liter"ing 😜
I spent my entire summer writing an 80 page thesis on minorities (specifically women, LGBTQ+ individuals, and black individuals) in the horror film so I am excited to see your thoughts!!!! happy halloween!!!!
¡¡woww!! i want to read that so bad right now 😻🙌🏻🙏🏻
anywhere we can read it? or, what were some of the most interesting findings?
Girl, please link me I want to read it please!
@@a.alphonso6193 not yet, i plan to expand on it when i go to graduate school next year! the most interesting findings were just how deep and developed many of the movies are, despite what one may see on the surface. i also came to the conclusion that the genre is one made for and by minorities, the genre has more minorities front and center than many other genres!
The sad thing is there's more women than men in the world but we still are considered as minorities.... In every field.
horror is such a thorny topic to critique bc not only does a lot of horror rely on misogynistic and racist tropes, but ableism also tends to be rampant in the genre too. from the concept of ~~psycho~~ killers w the insinuation of mental illness, to the heavy usage of body horror/disfigurement..... there's just a lot to unpack in this genre lol
really enjoyed this analysis of """feminist""" horror and where it succeeds and where it fails. I especially enjoyed your reading of Black Swan, as I was too young to pick up on Thomas taking advantage of Nina when I watched it and I found the ending too disturbing to bring myself to revisit it since.
P.S. thank you for acknowledging Kubrick is the worst. far too many ppl gush about The Shining without mentioning his abuse.
P.P.S. your outfit is super cute!!
Yes oh my goodness, that to me is one of the worst things is the whole “oh he’s a psycho” “all psychopaths are like Michael Myers/Ghostface/ etc etc
there’s a fine line between good film and the “haha people i look down on are getting killed haha” films. the good ones are hard to find.
I never noticed that the books behind you are a wallpaper, thought they were real for so long 😭 brb gotta get my eyes checked
omg i thought she had a private library wtf 😭😭
The treatment of women in horror is so disturbing, like here I am trying to enjoy an nice slasher film and all you have given me is misogyny and a higher than thou rhetoric.
Can’t we have the spook in a feminist way, no need for the gaslight gatekeep girlboss, they need to hang it up.
The way I almost titled this video “the girlboss-ification of horror” 🎯
Maybe the true horror is the misogyny we've made along the way✨
@@drendraleigh4722 oh I love this
@@Shanspeare so what was the original title ?
False Positive on Hulu is a great example, I feel.
To be honest, you always make me question society's ways in a whole new amazing way, thank you!
Thanks so much for this upload, and I adore your bunny costume! 🐰💕 It's a shame that the Final Girl is normal white, straight and cisgender, but more recent movies, such as "Fear Street Trilogy" and "There's Someone Inside your House" are allowing people of colour and who are LGBTQA Plus to survive the movie!
Oooo I wanna watch those! They sound great!
@@Shanspeare Yep, I'd definitely recommend them, especially "Fear Street", if you like seeing badass female heroines who aren't damsels in distress!
Are these movies on any streaming sites?
@@kaycedelgado2800 the fear street trilogy is on netflix ^^
@@giovannaa6105 thank you!!
American horror movies have always made killing sexy, witch rubs me the wrong way. There’s always very young women that’s being objectified through the male gaze and the storytelling want you to be attracted to her first, then make you watch someone scare her, HUNT HER and in the end kill her. It cannot be healthy and I cannot understand how so many people watch it. It’s so wrong and so sad to me.
I think it's less "make killing sexy" and more "make woman dying/suffering/being 'punished' sexy." There is such a thing that when the female character in media got assaulted, the camera will pan on them in a suggestive way, creeps up her thighs or close up on her on the ground with tears and heavy breathing and such. And if it's an anime, then add in some bouncy breasts with fabric clinging on them while she's about to get r@ped. I don't know if that is what 'torture porn' is, but I'm sure that's fetishizing female suffering in a way.
Edit: typos
@@drendraleigh4722 they also use female suffering as enhancing the male lead masculinity sometimes in horror too, but mostly outside
@@drendraleigh4722 so many movies where the female lead gets raped and dies and the guy in love takes revenge , usually after a physical transformation like becoming more muscular
Not always. Also old Italian horror and crime movies are literally notorious for doing that, like even more so that American movies
@@drendraleigh4722 exactly, its gross
It is unfortunate that Jack Torrance was depicted as he was in the film. In the book, Jack had a drinking problem and an anger management problem, but he was not a chronic abuser of Danny or Wendy. There was no indication that Danny's injury was anything other than a one-time occurrence (although it cannot be "excused" by any means). In the book, the Torrances were a genuinely loving family. Jack actively fought to stave off the influence of the Overlook. He even smashed his own face to pulp knowing that he wouldn't be able to stay in control in order to lessen the impact on Danny of the violence that he was likely to witness. Jack lost his battle, but he resisted long enough for his family to escape. Stephen King eventually came to terms with the film but the main reason that he was so unhappy about it for so long was the inaccurate portrayal of a character who was carefully crafted and who meant a lot to him.
That's actually really interesting and I never knew that! Thanks for that interesting tidbit of information internet stranger, have a good day 🙏 😊
good to know tbh
Who’s jack
He once also said that he felt Kubrik's film was "designed to hurt and cause pain" I think
that's why I love the book but dislike the film because it's so one dimensional and doesn not show the depth of Jack's character. I liked him in the book. at least he was trying to save his family from himself
I also love The Witch and Babadook. One about the demonization of womanhood and viewing nature as a villain and therefore female nature as well. The other for the grief of long term postpartum depression and loss of a loved one and forced motherhood.
YES. These two are great :D
Black Swan really f*cked w my head and was hard to watch bc it's so accurate of how life is and its literally how it is to be a ballerina and other professions like acting, being a model...
minus the undiagnosed schizophrenia I hope
@@thelambsauce1701 u are not a psychologist
“jason takes manhattan” is just a sex and the city and friday the 13th crossover
Personally I thought the ending of black Swan was literal in her actually dying, because it just makes sense to me with the plot. But I don't think it negates anything when looked at with a feminist lens. I thought her death perfectly encapsulated the critique abt how these power structures beat women into submission on all fronts. Movies dont necessarily need to have a happy end to be a critique.
When i finished it last night I didnt think there was any debate that she died until reading forums about it, which is great. I love seeing different interpretations of a piece.
But i assumed she died because she IS symbolically the character odette, and she dies just like in the dance from chasing after perfection and being obsessed to become and compete with the black swan/seductress, and ultimately that's a self destructive toil.
You hit the nail on the end with The Shining. Even at 9 yr old, I could clearly see the writing on the wall: this isn't about a haunting...this is something worse: domestic violence.
That’s what sucks. In the movie, yeah. The book is the literal opposite.
I can't believe it's been so long and I am STILL waiting for an iconic female slasher who kills just for the hell of it. It's always "my baby/family died" or "I was r*ped" or "I'm not actually the one in control here its some virus or demon" like women are just incapable of fcking around sometimes. But we are!!! The WORST for me is Jason Voorhees, who is actually supposed to be Jason's _mother_ because Jason _himself_ died as a literal CHILD. But I guess it's more realistic that a ghost child somehow got a buff adult male body and decided to kill people with a random mask and machete than it is for a tormented adult woman to be buff and overpower men :////
I’ve been obsessed with the dissection ‘feminist horror’ for the past few months, so this video could not be more made for me!!! As always, you killed it, Shan
One of my favorite horror movies is The Shining. I really picked up some feminist themes in that movie. Wendy did all the work at the hotel while Jack just sat there writing nonsense and throwing tantrums. The she is a victim of abuse who is able to save her child and escape in the end. Its not a perfect movie, but it's pretty based for 1980.
no its not
I’m glad you made this video! There are definitely positive, entertaining, and satisfying tropes in horror like “the final girl” or the bullied character delivering justice. That being said, we cannot disregard the negative aspects of horror such as people of color and queer people having little representation in the genre; or the norm of women being killed off as a result of their sexually active presence.
I couldn’t agree more….I love watching movies like “Halloween, the shining, scream etc. But sometimes it bothers me because of all the sexist, racist and homophobic things tht exist within the horror genre/ movies…. Which means sometimes I can’t fully enjoy it ……🥺
@@mysteryno-name yeah. I’m glad horror is taking a bit of a shift to be less problematic while retaining the gory themes most people watch horror for.
The joy I felt at seeing the notification pop-up is near indescribable
Ugly laughed at “Jason Takes Manhattan... is he Kermit the f*cking frog?” 😩
what interests me most is that horror properties that are considered feminist are more often than not created by men who did not intend for their films to be interpreted through a feminist lens. think 2015’s the vvitch for example, the director robert eggers has stated in interviews that when writing, feminist themes weren’t a priority but in the end they still made their way into the film
I was literally thinking about you today n now I get your notification, god you just made my day a thousand time better!!!
😭😭❤️
When she said “women must not age” I felt that lmao damn girl, I love your videos. You offer new perspectives that I have not thought of myself and I appreciate that 👍🏽
Like others are saying, thank you for the captions! I don't know if this is related to the topic but it was interesting watching this video after having an internet .... discussion about how Carrie was not the villain. Arguably, an anti-hero but not a hero or villain. Mostly because she was getting revenge for her mistreatment and falls probably under the "women are crazy" narrative our society has. But just my opinion.
I wonder if Wendy wasn’t shown having visions because they wanted to make that a symbol or they just left it out from the book I’ve never read it
Kubrick's movie doesn't have too much to do with King's novel
From my recollection Wendy doesn't have "the shining" only Danny.
@@MissAlmostFine no she doesn't but if I'm rembering correctly she does see the ghosts around the hotel
Can't wait to see what we have an store today
the bunny girl costume is immaculate 🤌🏾
As a lifelong horror fan, I'm trying to think of a "feminist" horror movie and the only one I can think of (atm) is Hard Candy. Not only do you have a young girl stalking a predator after someone she knows died, she goes back to her life after killing him. Plus all the dialogue is literally about condemning child attackers! There's also Lady Vengeance but I consider that a drama vs. horror.
Yes! I knew staying up late (almost 3 am) on sunday is a right decision ;)
AAAAA omg. Rest 😭
The way that you just gradually have been getting more and more (passive) aggressive literally fuels my soul.
I think this is a very interesting topic, I saw last night in soho and don't want to spoil it or anything but there is definitely a strong unspoken narrative about being a young woman and simply trying to exist in the world.
I still haven’t seen Black Swan because I’m bitter about the director copying Satoshi Kon without ever going out of his way to credit him and even denying Kon’s influence on his work. He also never corrects the misinformation that he bought the rights to Perfect Blue and excused the copying as “homages” when Satoshi Kon himself asked him about it…
But your study on the movie is really intriguing lol. It made me want to give it a shot.
Everything Satoshi Kon did was copied on some level. Looking right at you, Inception. Let's give credit where credit is due, white men.
@@1WEareBUFO1 for real 👏 it's even more frustrating these films are critically acclaimed while the general western audience don't even know who Satoshi Kon is. Like does it really count as an "homage" if your audience won't recognize it.
Some people, at the time, argued that the "no nookie" trope was a commentary on that virus that started going around at that time.
I like you're take from a feminist perspective.
I literally love how you present these topics with originality and are able to engage viewers. You’re one of my favourite youtubers, thanks for all you’re great videos!
This is DETAILED SO WELL. So happy to see someone finally touching upon intersectional aspects of feminism that people of color face in media! Brilliant! Happy halloween!
Oo this should be interesting!
I love all your videos so I’m already pumped up!
Suddenly, it makes sense why I don't like horror movies. I went through a lot of physical and emotional abuse as a kid, and I've almost never enjoyed horror films. They just make me so uncomfortable and stressed, and I don't like paying money to feel anxiety like that.
That's... The point
..
I appreciate that you don't like them... But a LOOOT of people work through trauma through horror
@@Courier_333 She's not comfortable and its her opinion. Exposure therapy doesn't work for everyone.
Edit: I'd like to add that your comment comes off as kinda rude and victim blamey to op who is a abuse victim.
Same. I lived through mental, emotional, and physical abuse by a male until I moved out at 18. I don’t need to relive that experience.
@@blurobin3993 idk it seems people miss the entire point of the artwork entirely wasnt meaning to be victim Blamey but whatever they're just movies
@@Courier_333 I'm not talking about artwork but your comment towards op.
Happy Halloween!! Haven’t finished the video yet, but I bet it’s great :))
I watched Jennifer's body based on its advertising and was terrified by it BUT I'm so glad it's gotten a cult following now to undo all the damage that marketing did. Even though I never watch horror movies, I love critiques on them, this one very much included.
shan i just wanna say i shared ur mommy issues video with my dad bc he’s been wanting to understand women’s issues in general recently and he loved your video ❤️❤️❤️ you are such an approachable creator and i’m so so so thankful that you share your thoughts with us!!!
I know it’s after Halloween now, but I would absolutely watch a sequel to this about how children are used in horror movies… any time of year, it doesn’t matter
I love this essay, and it's brilliant, but - Jordayne Searles abused her boyfriend and blamed him for it, and it's been...a lot to watch. I'm parasocial in the situation, but I have to admit that I think it undermines her as a feminist critic.
That said, homg the costume! The CITATIONS! This is so meticulous and impressive!
I do always find feminist theory within the slasher subgenre very interesting since the usual read is that the weapon or tool used by the villain is an extension of their own penis, or replacement thereof, where they must stab and mutilate women in order to replicate sex (rape obv). When slasher villains see people having sex, they are frustrated and angered by it so much since they themselves have been denied sexual pleasure that they must rape the women with their knife. Moreover, films like Halloween and Nightmare On Elm Street gave the perspective that not a lot of mainstream movies were willing to give at the time, that women were and are surrounded by misogynist violence all throughout their lives, and that society is inherently patriarchal and suffocating towards sexually liberated women. And I do think that in some ways, with all the context and symbology being understood, that ‘final girls’ can be interpreted either as strong, independent figures who are able to actualize their potency to fight the boogeymen, or are characterized by the acquisition of heteronormative, stereotypical male characteristics, thus making them figureheads to be critiqued as their own survival necessitates the need to “man up.”
Thanks Rusty! I’m hopelessly in love with the horror genre and I understand that there are definitely lots of things that must be addressed within those kinds of films, so I just like to give my personal perspective :)
Uh, no. You just have a really, really dirty mind. Ah yes, it is so suffocating towards sexually liberated women, yet society promotes being a w****. I think not.
Sorry Shanspeare for commenting again, but I would just like to post some Halloween songs:
Thriller - Michael Jackson
Somebody's Watching Me - Rockwell and Jermaine and Michael Jackson
I Put a Spell on You - Various artists
This is Halloween - Danny Elfman
Michael Myers/Halloween Theme song - John Carpenter
Is It Scary - Michael Jackson
I'm Going Slightly Mad - Queen
Flick of The Wrist - Queen
Heads will Roll - Yeah Yeah Yeahs
Dead Man's Party - Oingo Boingo
Haunted Mansion Theme Song - Buddy Baker and X. Atencio
Monster - Kanye West
Disturbia - Rihanna
Love Song for a Vampire - Annie Lennox
Scary Monsters - David Bowie (and Nine Inch Nails)
Halloween - Siouxie Sioux and The Banshees
i’m so happy you posted today! i had a long day yesterday and being able to watch one of your new videos makes me feel 100x better :)
GREAT VIDEO!!
the phallic metaphors are so interesting to me, and it takes me back to my mortal enemy, freud. that token phrase about everything about sex except sex itself, which is about power. and penetration meaning loss of power, agency, respect. like yeah sure sexuality is great we all love having sex etc etc but there’s social connotations to the act of having penetrative sex.
sex and violence, sex and power. are they forever linked? are they not?
Sad world dude. And then people say 'it's not about changing the world' but I disagree. Things have to change..
why is everything about sex this wanna makes me commit kermit
then how are we supposed to have sex lmao quit the bullshit yall are crazy
Loved this video! I share most of your opinions and think that any genre can be feminist or critical to oppression depending on the analysis... as you said, things are rarely just black and white.
this video was so good !! the set, the eloquence in your words, bravo !!
Subjective, personal feeling only: I feel the female main character has to both survive and thrive in order for it to be impact-fully feminist. (If she's way too traumatized and will never live an ok life, it's worse than her dying to me.)
At the end of "Jennifer's Body", Needy is nuts, but has superpowers and is well enough to still take out the whole rock band during the end credits. In contrast to the 2000's "When a Stranger Calls", the main has to spend the rest of her life re-living her attack in a mental institution.
Why does a scary movie have to portray feminism as rainbows and sunshine for women when real life is never like that? movies don't need to empower everyone when it's just entertainment.
It doesn't have to but it COULD try to say something relevant. Not every viewer's head is empty and they ought to respect that.
But Jennifer dies and she is the one who was assaulted and made into a demon. How does that fit?
So if a female character acts like a real person it's not feminist
Traumatized and mentally ill women exist in real life and deserve to be represented. I think the root problem is actually ableism. The idea that once youve been traumatized, your life will forever be horrible is an ableist and discouraging thing. Perhaps the problem with your second example is not that her trauma is at fault for keeping her unempowered, but that ableism is. As Shanspeare says in this video, feminism is intersectional, and if a woman is marginalized in an additional way, that too must be considered. Ableism is a huge factor to consider, especially in the horror genre where it is often sensationalized and demonized. So perhaps a more feminist ending to When a Stranger Calls would be showing the main very much traumatized, but with hope of a better life ahead, instead of being locked away in an institution
i think that jennifer’s body’s sudden change of her eating and killing the men was a great storyline
Excellent essay, and your comments on the 2019 Black Christmas is spot-on. You perfectly managed to put into words my problem with it, which I could never quite articulate. I also feel like the way it tries to engage with the original film is misguided. I wouldn't call the 1974's black Christmas *feminist*, exactly, but *come on*, it didn't need a feminist "makeover" because it already engages with these themes in a rather respectful manner. Like, for starters, it actually treats its female characters like actual people who deserve sympathy, which immediately sets it apart from a lot of modern slasher movies.
I’m so glad u posted today, can’t wait to watch. 💜
Ah, another top tier video! You look amazingggggg happy Halloween!!!
no one:
mike's mic: girlboss, gaslight, gatekeep
i remember as a teen and young adult trying to talk to people about how theres always adult fun time and heavy female nudity in horror flicks and it doesnt belong there typically. I was always called jealous, prude and a joykill, even by women. it was honestly exhausting and I just chalked everyone up to being ignorant idiots. you cover these topics so well!
There's one horror film that explicitly addresses the "sex/promiscuity bad" trope in horror and in society, and has been discussed critically as allegorical to fearmongering about sex/promiscuity, and STIs. So, slightly different from exactly what you're addressing in this video (your particular definition of a feminist horror movie), but in some ways super relevant to the topic - _It Follows_
Has a lot of positive regard in some horror circles I've encountered
I actually really liked a lot of the movie “Lucky” that came out on Shudder that is very surreal and is ultimately about the constant violence women are subjected to both physically and also mentally from past trauma etc, and the experience of being brushed off and gaslit by society. If you view it as a narrative that follows a strict plot it doesn’t really work but something that flows like a dream and has the logic of a dream, and when viewing it like that it’s very interesting to analyze.
I just watched Black Swan for the first time last week. It’s my new favorite movie and I loved your analysis of it!!
22:00 What's really going to bake your cookie about Linda's death in Halloween is that Michael wears the sheet and glasses because he wants her to think someone she knows is killing her.
I'd say halloween has come a long way, especially halloween 2018, where in the first Halloween it has a sex scene and all that (not nearly as much as Friday the 13th, like christ) but the 2018 version definitely uplifts its 3 final girls and does a much better job with female characters and how they're effected by things like this
like seriously, Laurie becomes a much mire fleshed out character and is a complete BADASS and none of them are sexualized
Having a Shanspere video today was a perfect addition to my halloween
I actually love that you provide definitions before getting into the rest of the video. It makes me thing and realize that I don't fully understand as much as I thought I did.
Your voice is so soft and smooth; I love listening to it while you talk about these kinds of topics 💓
Thank you for talking about black Christmas!! It’s one of if not my favorite horror movie! And I was pleasantly surprised by the feminist undertones of it.
This is my favourite video by you so far. I LOVE the feminist lens you applied to this topic, and how nuanced your discussion of it was. Love your work 😍
As a big fan of the original Black Christmas, i think the biggest issue with the newest remake is it rushed in to production and would benefited from rewrites that fleshed out the characters and improved the nuance of the story/plot.
Also those calls still creep me out.
I really enjoyed your commentary. I'm as huge horror fan who is also a Black Woman. Thank You for wonderfully articulating some of the issues I've had regarding within the Horror genre and how feminism is simultaneously reviled and lauded.
Idk how i found your channel but youre relaxing to listen to. As someone hard of hearing I really appreciate the fact that you have correct captions
I read Rosemary's Baby earlier this month for the first time and I hve watched the movie a couple times as well, and so I had been thinking about how some of its elements could be considered feminist. I loved this video because you talk about how complex it is to consider horror or thriller genres in a feminist lens. With Rosemary's baby i questioned this cuz it was written by a man. I kept weighing that in addition to the depiction of the psychological abuse of women against whatever agency Rosemary manages to hold or weild in the process. I was mostly surprised by how insightful it seems despite being written by a man. I question whether his interpretation of emotional, psychological, and physical violence against women could be considered feminist. he also wrote the stepford wives which is interesting.
I’d definitely say it’s feminist!
15:40 I feel like her feelings about Tomas could also be a portrayal of a trauma bond. It is a psychological response to abuse in which the victim develops sympathy and compassion for their abuser.
For me, a great example of feminist “horror” although it might be more o a suspense movie, is “promising young woman” because in that movie, we actually see the most possible outcome (sadly) of a woman fighting hand in hand against a man, and leaves us with a bittersweet ending, but what I liked the most was the fact that besides all of the horrible things Cassie went through and all of the things she did for her revenge, she still remained human and relatable, she didn’t turn into a skilled assassin in a 2 minute montage or gained supernatural powers, she did everything she could as a woman in the real world, and remained “feminine” although she was still miserable (the movie even had scenes showcasing stereotypical chick flics), but the always so cliché outcome of a woman turning edgy and badass, always wearing dark clothes and rejecting anything feminine, due to a very traumatic experience, feels inorganic and cringy; so for me, that movie will always be a masterpiece
"cis privilege and white privilege is a hellova drug" I loved that haha. Also what you said about class being a part of it as well.
Ohmygod just found your channel, first video I've watched, 3 mins in and I'm already obsessed
Convinced that shanspeare decided to make this video specifically for me, thank you queen
i cant tell u the way my face lit up when i saw that u uploaded 😭
It’s always fascinating to me to see how you always hit it out of the park. Like how do you do that sis’ ?! I couldn’t !
As an 80's baby Freddy was the reason I slept with a night light on. 🤷🏿♀️
-As did I, as I had most effectually been born in 1989.
Thank you so much for your wonderful videos! Love the structure, your personal inputs, the amazing research you do and the fact you provide such thorough description boxes!
Im absolutely obsessed with looking into the horror genre and feminism and the way you explained the different views on the intention of (implied) feminist horror movies was fantastic! I loved ur video 💕
the movie ‘men’ was wild but rly good
The Fear Street trilogy on Netflix is an excellent example of feminist horror to me. Even the characters that die feel fully realized. The relationships between characters also carry more depth than most relationships as portrayed on other slasher films.
Jesus Christ the original Texas chainsaw had a better final girl
3 minutes in and your script is already hitting so HARD