The Racial and Romantic Politics of The Twilight Saga's Midnight Sun
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มิ.ย. 2022
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sources:
Campos, Abigail. “How ‘Twilight’ Has Affected The Real Quileute Tribe.” Studybreaks, July 24, 2020. studybreaks.com/thoughts/twil...
Grady, Constance. “Midnight Sun brings back the creepy, sublimated, wildly unhealthy eroticism of Twilight.” Vox, August 6 2020. www.vox.com/culture/2020/8/6/...
Graham, Jennifer. “What the MeToo Movement Means for Stephanie Meyer and Twilight.” Desert News, July 30, 2020. www.deseret.com/indepth/2020/...
Hangen, Tona J. “A Place to Call Home: Studying the Indian Placement Program.” Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, vol. 30, no. 1, 1997, pp. 53-69. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/45226281. Accessed 23 May 2022.
Hirschfelder, Arlene et al. “I is for Ignoble: Stereotyping Native Americans.” Ferris State University, February 22 2018. www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jim...
Kelly, Alice. “Is The Twilight Saga Racist? Exploring Race and Mormonism in the Series.” Your Tango, August 22, 2021. www.yourtango.com/entertainme...
Kirschling, Gregory. “Interview with vampire writer Stephenie Meyer.” Entertainment Weekly, July 5 2008. ew.com/article/2008/07/05/int...
Landry, Alysa. “How Mormons Assimilated Native Children.” Indian Country Today, September 13, 2018. indiancountrytoday.com/archiv...
Pyrhönen, Heta. “Love under Threat: The Emotional Valences of the Twilight Saga.” Writing Emotions: Theoretical Concepts and Selected Case Studies in Literature, edited by Ingeborg Jandl et al., Transcript Verlag, 2017, pp. 347-62. JSTOR, doi.org/10.2307/j.ctv1wxt3t.22. Accessed 22 May 2022.
Quora Entries, “Why Does Edward Love Bella and Not Any Other Girl?” Quora, 2018. www.quora.com/Why-does-Edward...
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Sollosi, Mary. “Don't Stare Straight Into The Midnight Sun: Reviewing The Latest Twilight Novel.” Entertainment Weekly, August 14, 2020. ew.com/books/midnight-sun-rev...
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Wikipedia. “Indian Placement Program.” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
I’m personally not sure about the “based on mythological lore, vampires are technically only white” argument for a few reasons. 1.) Stephanie Meyer did no research on vampires and states herself that her vampires are not based on historical folklore. So her vampires don’t follow that logic. 2.) what happens to dark skin black people who are bitten by a vampire? Do they just die? And only white people are turned? Or does no vampire bite poc? 3.) in an assumingely made up, not real, entirely fictional universe where vampires somehow exist, the most unbelievable thing to y’all is a black person being one? You can tolerate mythological creatures but you draw the line at black people?😂😂
Slay queen! 🧛🏼
Lol exactly girl. What if Jasper met a vampire who happened to be an runaway slave. I would pay to see that fight. 🤺
Also there are more Vampires in other cultures with different form variation. I mean to say they look very different than a human being. Here, in the Caribbean there's the Soucayant which takes the form of a ball of fire after they peel off their human skin. They're not white. So really not taking her serious at all with this Vampire stuff.
Edit: point is she's strict and inflexible on her white, sexy vampire aesthetic.
Apparently the vampire venom takes away the melanin in their skin and they turn white or at least become less dark.
I’ve seen a few people who talk about the effects of Stephanie Meyer’s Mormonism on Twilight say that it might have something to do with the Mormon churches former teachings about black people (that their skin was darker because of a curse and black people who were righteous would become white in the afterlife)
If they care so much about mythology, they should also object to yanks becoming vampires. Everyone knows only people from the Balkan countries can become vampires.
no deadass I had a friend who I watched the first movie with and she was confused when she saw the Black vampire because she was like “but vampires are supposed to be pale, so people of color can’t be vampires unless they’re light-skinned” so now my Black ass doesn’t talk with her anymore ✨✨✨
Like Blade and Queen of the Damned don’t exist. Girl please😂
MY GOD 💀
That person has not developed their logic skills.
LOL WHAT
HUH?
The problem with Stephanie Meyers books is mostly because of racism. It’s ok to have white characters in your book. The problem is intentionally writing characters who become stunningly beautiful when you become ✨White✨. Also having Jasper as a Confederate Solider is another problem. Native Americans in the book where also called slurs and where called ‘out of control’ by the Cullens. Her beliefs affect her writing and it shows.
I don’t think it’s racist to think being white is beautiful. Isn’t it just an opinion on aesthetics?
@@Jessica-og4iq Nothing wrong with that, white is beautiful but is not and should not be the standard of beauty for everyone.
Unfortunately history of colonialism have perpetuated this idea of white =beauty and everything else is otherness.
There is beauty in all ethnic groups
@@wrestlinganime4life288 I definitely agree with that. Each group has their own unique beauty in my opinion, there’s always beautiful people from all around the world. Thanks for answering my question
@@Jessica-og4iq Yes as @Wrestling Anime 4life said, it’s fine to think white is beautiful but it’s definitely racist to write a story that portrays them as the standard of beauty. Think what that does to all the different ethnicities that read her books? Like you said, beauty exists in us all ❤️
@@dreamstar3293 I finished the video and I definitely get it now. I’m new here but I just subscribed and I’m going to watch more of these videos. Never really thought about these topics but I will now. I definitely should have watched the whole video before asking any questions but I’m just a curious person. I love Twilight so I clicked on the video. I’m glad that I did
reading the books it was so wild to me that the vampires were presented as "safer, less impulsive" than the werewolves... despite literally everything in the books happening BECAUSE vampires are basically inherently childish and impulsive with a lack of regard for human life. How many times did Bella almost die because a vampire threw her too hard, again?
it really does seems like the werewolves are only seen as more dangerous because they're not white!
Exactly .
What do you mean, all of Eclipse re-iterates that newborn vampires are the most chaotic, out-of-control and impulsive when they FIRST turn. They are the most animalistic and unlike themselves at this point, because all they crave is human blood and their bodies are pulsing with the fresh new venom running through their veins. The same concept applies to the shapeshifters. The fictional Quileute tribe didn’t have many werewolves outside of Sam-the leader of the pack-in the first book, because the amount of shapeshifters in the area is triggered by the number of vampires in the area. When Victoria started building her newborn army around the time of New Moon, the vampire population increased, hence the younger boys in the tribe have JUST turned and are still adjusting to their new abilities as shapeshifters. The only reason they seem extra dangerous and out-of-control is because they are experiencing this for the first time. Sam has been a shapeshifter for longer and doesn’t have the same issues with control as he did when he first turned. The werewolves are not impulsive by default, it’s a side effect of being inexperienced. This is very clearly explained in the books starting from New Moon.
@@sorackee
the books consistently saying a bunch of hormonal kids that eventually master control over all that will always be more dangerous than vampires that will always be ruled by a desire to kill is... hmm. hmm.
most of the story happens because even the well trained and in control vampires STILL want to kill humans and/or are violent to Bella.
the big plot in twilight involved a vampire breaking Bella's leg because he thought hunting and torturing her before killing her was fun.
vampire society is run by a group of sadists that kill humans by the dozens and torture people.
the entire plot of new moon happens because a hundreds year old vampire couldn't contain his impulse to kill Bella over a single drop of blood and Edward threw her across the room. this proves that not even the Cullens are safe to be around. like literally the entire story happens because even vegetarians are dangerous and unpredictable.
none of this stuff happens just because of newborn rage! and they're massive plot points!!
the werewolves could have had the anger/lack of control issue removed and it wouldn't have changed anything about the story, despite it being pushed that they were so much worse than the vampires because of it. If you remove vampires killing people you don't have any of the books.
now, given a very long history of depicting native Americans as wild, unpredictable, and dangerous, consider why it's a little weird why the wolves are depicted as more dangerous than the objectively (and always, not just as newborns) horrible vampires?
@@nuhuhbackoff Yeah I’m gonna have to see some proof that the werewolves are depicted as more dangerous. Edward tells Bella that they are ‘out of control’ because one, the werewolves and vampires are natural enemies and the only creatures outside of vampires themselves that are capable of killing vampires are werewolves-it makes sense that he’s especially wary of them-and two, because Edward is jealous of Bella’s closeness with Jacob and his family. Bella calls out his BS on this, considering It is actually re-iterated that the wolves are better at keeping Bella safer than the Cullens themselves. All your points about vampires being dangerous even after maturing just supports the fact that they are shown to be MORE out-of-control than the werewolves. The werewolves only exist to protect the tribe-and by extension, Forks-outside of this they are depicted as a big, caring family with a wholesome image. Bella considers La Push her second home. She feels safe there and is always welcomed with open arms-that is of course until she becomes a perceived threat to the safety of humankind in Breaking Dawn.
The werewolves are depicted as more ‘dangerous’ only to vampires. They have to be considerably more powerful to so easily tear them apart limb from limb, lol. Imagine some teenager suddenly being able to turn into a wolf when his whole life he’s been otherwise a normal human being. It would actually be weirder for them to instantly have perfect control over these abilities. Look, I BELIEVE that the books are racist in terms of cultural appropriation-that’s unforgivable. But in my opinion, the werewolves being ‘consistently depicted as more dangerous and out-of-control’ than vampires just feel like reaching to me.
Also-wow, they’re vampires. Creatures that can only survive off of blood. So shocking that they’re actually dangerous. Jasper is vegetarian now, but you have to take into consideration that he was hardly in contact with humans most of his vampire life until he joined the Cullens. Every other Cullen outside of Alice and Jasper were immediately taught to reign in their instinctual desire for blood under Carlisle’s guidance. Some vampires have inherent abilities that they are simply better at-James (the one who broke Bella’s leg) is a tracker who is naturally sadistic and likes to play with his prey, relishing more in the hunt than the taste of blood. He becomes obsessed with his victims until he achieves what he wants. He was probably somewhat like this while he was still human as well. He’s dangerous by choice, all of his actions are deliberate and planned.
Also: the whole reason the boys of the Tribe BECAME werewolves in the 1st place is because the Cullen’s arrival. The Cullen’s moved back to Forks, knowing it would trigger the wolf gene in the Native boys, uprooting their lives, but didn’t give AF. And still the Native teen CHILDREN were at fault for everything?! Hell naw.
If she really wanted the "drains you of pigment" thing, why didn't all vampires have albinism (something that occurs in all races)? Kind of like it wasn't about creating good lore, so much as constructing a reason to stay in her white comfort zone
Couldn't agree more!
actually vampire i like zombie in a certain way that mean that originaly vampire are people who die and comeback to life(exepte when they got bitten), that's why there are describle to be white like a corpse(when it is a person with light skin)so that mean that if a black person died for exemple and comeback and become a vampire, the person will still have the same skin color,so her version is not correct.
Exactly! The excuses don't make sense. 1. Her vampires do not apply the same logic as the traditional vampires they just have to be pale in her books, so why did she not include Asian or specifically east asian people? They are mostly pretty pale and she did not include them. 2. She brakes all the rules for her vampires including having fangs, burning in the sun, and turning into bats but stops at the fair skin rule which isn't even that strict bc multiple races have light skinned fair people but STILL put only a white main cast. 3. If they created a black vampire (Laurent) then why couldn't they put one in the main cast to?
Honestly that would have been kinda cool but knowing Meyer she would have made it offensive
@@momoring9247 fair skin isn't even an original rule from what i know.. slavic vampires are just successful s//icide cases revived for some reason or another. i dont think race ws ever a thing
Stephanie Meyer literally wrote turning into a vampire makes you white…
she’s so….
@@Shanspeare I know right. vampires don’t have a historical race connection so anyone can be a vampire but she’s such a brainwashed privileged Mormon
Glancing back through history, is there a better color that we could use to signify evil?
@@justinwatson1510 you know, she did unintentionally diss her entire race. Whiteness - the universal soul suckers?? 😂😂👌
She literally doesn’t. The Amazon and Egyptian covens are proof! Vampire are just pale. Y’all need to stop.
Hi, I used to be mormon. Edwards connection to his family is 1000% a mormon thing. Family is the MOST important thing. That's what's drives their homophobia, because it's against their strong "Family values". Edward coming back and being welcomed by his family is literally just a copy of the "Prodigal Son", a parable told by Jesus about a sinful son who was welcomed back by his father.
Congrats on making it out.
How lol. I’m catholic and family is the most important thing to us. No homophobia but definitely welcoming everyone and family members with open arms. Y’all just wanna hate twilight so bad
@@angelarivera6010 I come from a Catholic family. Yeah family is important but to say that Catholics as a whole aren’t homophobic is honestly stupid, it’s in Christian teaching. Im gay and was shunned by my family. Your family might not be, but it’s a Christian belief unfortunately.
@@angelarivera6010 I'm also catholic and you need to stop living in some fantasy version of it. There are problematic elements to it that shouldn't be ignored. Homophobia is engrained into it because having babies is seen as so important. If you think all Catholics are welcoming to everyone you need a serious reality check. Twilight's got issues and it deserves criticism for said issues. Not everything is senseless hate, please try to learn the difference.
@@koifish8416 like assuming all Mormon believe you need to be white to join god? Wwe all have our ignorant people in all religion and culture. My main point is choosing family and having family strong connections isn’t a bad thing
Ok, so as someone who was raised Mormon, with family who is still Mormon, I can confirm that the racism thing is huge in the church, and it’s not just because of the Mark of Cain, although that’s part of it. A large part of it is actually due to the portrayal of the Lamanites in the Book of Mormon.
So in the first book of the Book of Mormon (a book is basically a chapter) we learn about Nephi, the son of Lehi. Nephi is this righteous, godly man who does whatever is asked of him without asking questions. He has these two brothers though that are basically the villains of his story, called Laman and Lemuel. Laman and Lemuel are shown as wicked, hedonistic, and disobedient throughout the story. Theses characters are important, because the two civilizations in the rest of the Book of Mormon are descendants of these three brothers who have split into what is basically two different ethnic groups that are constantly at war with each other.
The Nephites are descendants of Nephi, and for the most part are the heroes of the story. Meanwhile the Lamanites (the descendants of Laman and Lemuel) are almost always the villains or a sort of apathetic bystander. The only times the Lamanites are seen as good, is when one of them has basically swapped to the Nephite side of this millennium long conflict, like in the case if Samuel the Lamanite, which I will get to. Because the majority of the focuses around clashes between the Nephites and the Lamanites, they’re a HUGE part of the teachings in the Mormon Church, with a lot of beliefs and doctrines being justified through these accounts.
So let’s get into the major issue with the Nephites and the Lamanites: Coding. The racial coding for the Nephites and the Lamanites is pretty explicit. The good and righteous Nephites, who are god’s chosen people, are white. All artwork and descriptions describe the Nephites as pale or light olive toned, strong and able bodied. I’m contrast, the Lamanites are coded POC, in particular Native American. The portrayals of the Lamanites are so outrageously racist, and unfortunately something that’s seen as very matter of fact and logical. The Lamanites are portrayed as these animalistic savage people, covered in war paint and wearing animal hides, with dark skin. They’re inferior to the Nephites, and their skin tone marks them as Lamanites. The only time the Lamanites break out of this stereotype is when they are either working with the Nephites against their own people, or in very rare cases when the Lamanites are given the role of the Nephites, which rarely happens.
Samuel the Lamanite is a good example of this. Samuel the Lamanite was a prophet who came to help the Nephites but was turned away. He’s shown as this holy man, a prophet of god, and as such is portrayed in the way Nephites are portrayed: civilized, godly, and righteous. He’s one of the only “good lamanites” and his entire role is to assist the Nephites in their war against his people. He’s used in the Book of Mormon as this example of what Lamanites should be. Samuel the Lamanite is “one of the good ones” because he is willing to betray the success of his people in order to help the people who historically oppress and kill them.
These stories are indoctrinated into Mormon children from an extremely young age. All the artwork, songs, and activities in the Mormon church strongly enforce this, and as such the Mormon Church tends to view POC as lesser. It’s why black men weren’t allowed to receive the Priesthood, a major part of the Mormon beliefs, until the 80’s. It’s why the Mormon church will write off POC cultural expression while appropriating their likeness to preach their gospel. Just look up artwork of Nephi and Moroni and Helaman and compare it to artwork of Samuel the Lamanite and Lamanites in general. Look at songs like Book of Mormon stories, which uses hand gestures in it that are extremely racist. Look at the church’s fascination and appropriation of Native American’s. The Mormon church is incredibly racist, because their doctrine is inherently racist.
Stephanie Meyers writing is heavily influenced by her religion. Twilight is seeped in Mormon influence, and leads to a book with an emphasis on whiteness, a heavy enforcement of purity culture, appropriation and perversion of Native American culture, and a tendency for unhealthy relationships.
thank you so much for this comment (basically a mini essay honestly) it's so illuminating and helpful!! ^-^
bruh this shit runs deep huh.. like that shouldn't be surprising for colonizers and the narratives they use to justify their actions, but there are so many LAYERS to this shit it's EVERYWHERE
Thank youuu!!! I grew up Mormon until I was 12, so I couldn't remember the exact story from mormon-lore, but I just rememeber learning basically that not being white was because god decided to "punish" them pretty much, which made me question one of the 13 articles of faith. The one about "man shall be punished for his own sin, and not for Adam's transgression", the way I interpreted this was to mean, everyone will be punished only the things they do, not for the sins of anyone else. If God gave colored skin as a "punishment" why would he be punishing their children and all future descendents for their parents' "sins"? It just didn't make sense to me.
So there’s a lot with Mormon church history and beliefs that I could talk about for HOURS. The church has a long history of racism, ableism, cultural appropriation, misogyny, homophobia, sexual abuse, the list goes on. I think from a theology/sociology standpoint, the Mormon faith is inherently interesting, but in practice and as an organization it fails, because much like a lot of Christian organizations, it strays from the core beliefs of kindness and community and instead ends up polluted by bigotry, focusing more on supremacy of specific people, and anyone who does not fit into that mold is vilified and becomes the others. It’s something you you see a lot, most commonly with racist ideology in groups like Fascists.
The Mormon church is more blatant about their bigotry, because it was founded by a man who was a racist and a sexual predator. They go to great lengths to cover up their history, and gaslight their followers into believing this alternate history. Good examples of that are the issues of polygamy, mainly concerning the relationship between the FLDS and Mormon church, and the death of Joseph Smith, which is often compared to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. They’ve been trying to do some similar backpedaling with the LGBT+ community most recently, which is part of why in those street interviews with BYU students you hear them say “same sex attraction”. That phrase is used as a way to change the previous narrative on homosexuality to fit the current narrative for the church’s views on homosexuality, because the recent statement they’ve made on it is that gay people exist, but they choose to act on their same sex attraction instead of striving to be more righteous and ignoring those “urges”. It was a phrase that really started popping up in the Gordan B Hinkley days, during the release of the Proclamation of the Family, which is why it’s a phrase a lot of college kids who grew up in the church now know. It’s indoctrination at its finest and it’s almost impressive how smoothly they were able to do it.
Like I said, I could go on for hours about this. Maybe someday I’ll do my own video essay on this, idk. But there’s a lot to talk about with the Mormon Church, and it’s history
Wow thank you for clarifying on this.
I always imagine vampirism becoming the new bleaching fad that makes the African aunties go wild.
😂😂😂😂
indian aunties too 😭
Underrated comment 😭😭
Anyone remember in Breaking Dawn when Bella explicitly describes the two Amazonian vampires as uncivilized?
Ok so the vampire Amazon coven was changed hundreds of years ago! And vampires get stuck in the age and time they are changed. Plus she describes them with pigment. Voids this video about twilight being a race thing……. Y’all are stretching for shot that’s not there! Plus Jacob was never aggressive as a human boy he was sweet and kind and beautiful. Temper was from being a new wolf
@@angelarivera6010 You're so ridiculous 😂
You're really caping for the racism in this book, aren't you?
@@angelarivera6010 Angela, seriously, find something to do with your time. You're the one doing all reaching to defend a book that deserves to be criticized.
@@angelarivera6010 sweetie wrong hill to die on. Stop defending racism and start growing the F up .
as an ex-mormon, I definitely grew up learning that people who weren't white were that way as a sort of "punishment". It also didn't help that I had a VERY racist father.... I am very grateful for social media since leaving the church, because it has really helped me question all my previous beliefs and unlearn things like racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. Love your videos, I look forward to EVERY one you put out ❤❤
Glade u escape that
Reading the first sentence literally hurt my head. Thank god you got out.
Wow that's interesting. What made you want to take a different path than your upbringing?
@@nmtlnm luckily, my parents decided we no longer wanted to participate in the Mormon religion when I was about to turn 12. I'll admit, little 12 year old me was very sad to leave (I also lived in a very small town of around 2000 people, most of whom were mormon), but as I've grown into my 21 year old self, I could not be more thankful that we left
I'm to this day a fan of twilight the book and I reread it almost annually. It's dumb and stupid but I love it. However... the weird stalking that I can ignore in Twilight is too much for me in Midnight Sun. Edward is what he's always been; a stalkerish pathetic weirdo, but this time without the rose colored glasses of Bella's storytelling. It's no longer cute when you're told the reality of the story, not just Bella's interpretation of it. Meyer could've spun it a little bit more and made it a thriller. That would've been fun lol
"Stalking for 'love'" is not love.
But tbf, I think it's super complicated, given all the, ah, "difficult" stuff like [replaced by SAMPLE TEXT]... But aside from that, most of the anti-Twilight ire was definitely more of the usual annoyance at anything popular with girls, and nothing more. And that isn't fair. It's a problem. Fwiw, Lindsay Ellis did an "apology", giving the cultural phenomenon (and the mostly girls who liked it) the credit it deserves. ...although...
That said, I haven't finished the video, but I'm already aware of the ...difficult... aspects, so I know there's a _lot_ of them. Fwiw, same for _50 Shades_ (originally a _j a n k_ "Twilight" fanfic) for many of the same reasons, magnified - see Folding Ideas' epic 3-parter. (Truly, an epic, and V worth it.)
Footnote: I hope this post works as I mean it to. My brain is really frazzled atm, so no offence to anyone, please. Majja ni life. And 𝔸⊂𝕒ʙ
♡
@@mookinbabysealfurmittens A lot of the hate Twilight gets is misogynistic but it’s also a pretty shit book in a lot of ways.
@@sugarpearl9781 Yeah, agreed. That's basically a tl;dr of what I said, heh. (I'm bad at being concise. Not accusin you of not reading! ♡)
I think you can argue that Midnight Sun was almost a thriller. The idea that Edward was plotting to murder a room full of innocent children the minute he smells Bella probably wasn't designed to be romantic. That potentially would be scary if everyone reading it didn't already know nothing would happen. Basically I think Meyers flips the exact same story from a romance to a thriller by swapping the POV, which is actually kinda cool.
I think the only reason you really can't consider Midnight Sun a thriller is because there's no sense of danger in the story because we already know how it turns out. Edward doesn't hurt Bella and they end up together. If you didn't read Twilight then Midnight Sun could be read as a thriller from the stalkers POV.
Adding to just the plain weirdness of Eddie-boy watching Bella sleep: what if she snores loudly or something? What if she FARTS in her sleep?!! How romantic! 😂 No. Knowing Meyer, she probably pictured Bella as sleeping soundlessly and gracefully with her hands folded on her stomach like Sleeping Beauty. 😒
Are we not going to talk about the fact that pretty much the only minorities in the actual books are dehumanized, like they're literally wolfs...
That says a lot about the Twilight series. I only watched the first movie and I did not like it (like that)😭💯
Tbh I dont know if this is a bad take but I think theoretically they could have been wolves if they weren’t depicted in the way they were depicted in the story (ex. “violent”) but yeah… twilight very much gives anglo white supremacy culture vibes
And I think it's interesting how the writer only wanted to add a black person as a vampire when the vampire was a "villain" funny how the exeption is when the poc is the bad guy
And imprinting. Don't forget imprinting.
@@melixxa1992 Laurent isn’t a bad guy, he’s a neutral character in the first book and has a pleasant, diplomatic demeanor. I think Stephanie agreed because she already described him as someone with olive skin
Writing white characters is one thing. REFUSING to believe that your characters couldn't be ANYTHING but white (and fighting and fighting and FIGHTING about it) is another thing.
idk I also find it suspicious to write a real-world place with a diverse population and say "sorry only white people showed up today:))))pure coincidence"
no because why does she hate the wolves so much??? the cullens can do anything and bella is like nah I love them, but she finds out wolves exist and she's like "well can't you change?". i truly love the idea of twilight, the cullen clan dynamics has so much potential they're a literal found family, and the wolves are so cool, but she hates them so much they're written to be so terrible I ignore the canon. it's like I'm at the point where my headcanons of twilight are my love of twilight
i agree entirely seriously one of the reasons why i hate bella sis makes no dang sense, they didn’t deserve all that. i was applauding jake for callin her out after her idiotic rant.
I think because Bella is her, Stephanie. A self insert. It's like another way of showing her racist view of the world.
@@jesscarter2427 yeah I noticed maybe Bella is stephanie and she created her to put herself in her own fictional world.
Bella is only against them at first because she thought that the wolves were responsible for all the deaths and missing people in the area. People thought it was some type of wild animal like a bear or something. It was actually Victoria slowly building her army, and the wolves were just trying to stop them. Jacob clears this up with Bella when she brings it up…
@@sorackee leave them alone they’re to slow to understand 😭
All of the Cullens are racist and show a disgusting disregard for human life. All of them. Even the ones that are popular among fans.
Remember when Alice was the first person to call the wolf pack dogs (which is racist slur that’s used against Native Americans), married a Confederate soldier, and was born and raised in Mississippi in early 1900s :)
Remember when Edward was considering murdering Bella in Midnight Sun and Esme was just like “whatever makes you happy sweetie 🥰” Or when she had her family live in what looks suspiciously like a plantation house (according to the Illustrated guide) :)
Remember when Carlisle STOLE JACOB’S BLOOD to study it because he “finds his species fascinating.” That doesn’t smack of medical racism AT ALL :)
Edward and his treatment of the Quileutes, especially Jacob, are self explanatory. Rosalie served Jacob food in a DOG BOWL!
Emmett’s the least problematic tbh. He’s a vampire himbo and he owns that.
Edit: I’m saying all of this because I believe the books would’ve worked better if the Cullens were portrayed as the villains they clearly are and it was written as horror instead of a romance.
Yeah that would make so much more sense. I always imagines them as being somewhat sinister. Like they don't kill people, but they are extremely tolerant of those vampires who do, and don't want to stop the existing order of things, which justifies human-killing. And very racist towards werewolves. In the in-universe setting they are basically open bigots
I agree with most of that and also the message of this video but i feel like the "dog" slur was rly just meant to insult them as werewolfes, no?
@@malec56 Meyer’s intentions were most likely more along that line of thought, I’ll give you that, but that would just make her tone deaf to the problem more than anything. A lot of words used when talking about animals are also used as terms of abuse and dehumanization, for example the word mongrel. the Twilight novels also very much racialize the werewolves, since the ability to shift is based on their indigenous heritage within the Quileute tribe.
And that’s not even addressing the narrative hypocrisy given that the pack are in many ways far more human than the Cullens, such as actually being alive and having things that go along with that like a pulse, body heat, metabolism, the ability and need to actually eat food, the ability to grow old and die, the fact that the wolves don’t have to deal with the instinctual desire to kill and feed on humans, but are still in the in treated as wild, animalistic and ill tempered beasts who have no control.
Y’all are literally grasping at straws, the dog insults were because they were literally vampires and werewolves
Course, the wolves said plenty of slurs against the Cullens too. Paul attacked Bella in New Moon, Jacob sexually assaulted Bella in Eclipse, and all the wolves except Jacob, Leah and Seth attempted to kill Bella and her baby in Breaking Dawn. Does that mean the wolves are racist too? Or does that standard only apply to white characters?
I think the issue is less a matter of skin color and more a matter of the Cullens and wolves being monsters. We're talking about vampires and werewolves. That comes with a unique set of problems which the non monster characters don't have to deal with.
as a native w ex mormon friends, can confirm the indigenous assimilation ideals of the early church. it rly makes the quileute handling in the book that much more painful to me in retrospect. I have a super complicated relationship w the series bc i loved it as a dumb 10-11 y/o (i read the entirety of breaking dawn in glee on a plane ride..) but the racism feels more than just ignorantly incidental. even besides the discussion about abuse and sexism within the series meyer's views of race really ruin the thing for me, im amazed twilight somehow resurfaces in "lefty" spaces as much as it does in comparison to harry potter or something (and jkr IS doing more harm but i feel like i see ppl giving twilight more of a pass so to speak). is it bc we used to have to defend it in the public eye so hard? is it bc we all know we're in a middle space of earnest nostalgia & ironic lampooning due to our increasing political mindedness? such an interesting phenomena lol
i mean maybe it’s because I’m over Harry Potter and just kinda don’t like it, so that skews my opinion, but I think the twilight Renaissance is deeply rooted in RECLAIMING what most of us were shamed for liking in our youth, whereas no one’s been shamed for liking HP (that I know of ?)
I also think it helps that all of the fandom consistently makes fun of Meyer anyways ? Like it’s very much common knowledge now that Meyer sucks, she’s racist, full of internalised misogyny, praises extremely toxic relationships, is not a good writer, and so on and so forth.
And most of all, I feel like beyond the Twilight Saga, Meyer just doesn’t have a platform. JK Rowling has a humongous platform and she uses it as much as possible to do shitty things. She’s very vocal about her very harmful beliefs and there’s always more dumb shit that comes from her. Whereas no one cares about Meyer, we all kind of agree that she’s a fool ? The content of her book are problematic as heck but beyond that you don’t see her try to spread her horrible opinions, i think ?
I agree though that people should not buy Midnight Sun and other Twilight related things because we shouldn’t encourage her, but I personally haven’t bought anything Twilight related in like, ten years.
I don't have any nostalgia or interest in twilight (beyond these videos lmao) but I definitely relate to the feeling of smth you loved when you were younger just being ruined for you now that you're aware. I've felt that looking on media I used to love as well as people I think of fondly before realizing that they don't fucking care about the lives of people like me. It's a really strange sense of loss.
As a queer poc, I feel like harm is harm, and similar standards should apply to racism and transphobia whether it's implicit or explicit. I think a lot of yt leftists are really hypocritical and don't accept that they are complicit in oppression unless they ACTIVELY do something to change it. Having leftist ideals means nothing if you're still supporting problematic people and media uncritically. There's this pervasive sense of "we'll support you until it inconveniences us or becomes too personal." So often poc have this conditional solidarity thrown in their faces and are then demonized for being mistrustful of yt people, which is just-- the mental gymnastics is baffling. Yt people will also use whatever degree of marginalization they may have to try to shield themselves from criticism and accountability.
Certainly we all do some degree of harm, we live in a violent society and on stolen land. But refusing to accept accountability is such a red flag for me, and I feel like again and again I see poc just expected to deal with this halfway respect for fear of alienating yt people for being "too harsh"
@@zkkitty2436 returning to media I loved as a kid is such a hard thing as I am more aware of these things now, most things I used to love make me uncomfortable now :( I was never into Harry Potter or Twilight so I am glad I avoided these two things but ofc many other things I liked are tainted as well
I agree, even though Harry Potter is lacking in the same department that Twilight is (diversity), it's still so much better. The female protagonist and female characters actually do something to the story and are usefull and don't just sit there and let other people fix their problems, even though they are only white women while poc women are portrayed in a diffrent negative light. It's overall a better story compared to Twilight.
I almost missed that ur dressed like Bella 😄 I was like…”something about her looks familiar”
Lol yes !
Honestly, I don't know how people can still support this series with today's values. The way Stepahnie portrayed native americans (and stole and changed actual legends from a real tribe) is horrendous. Not only with the slurs, dehumanization and portraying them as savage, out of control with a tendency to abuse their partners, but also by making them pedophiles. That was a whole thing that could've easily been avoided. Instead, Stephanie decided to have two adult men imprint on an infant and a toddler, with the exact intention to marry them in the future. It's literally grooming and I still can't fathom how this is excused at all.
Yes!!! I say this all the time. Like, the Twilight series wasn't just cringe. It was also huuugely problematic (almost dangerously so imo!) and I don't think it deserves the comeback that it's gotten
I mean what do I expect it was tantalizing bc it was so bad and problematic. I mean it’s definitely could of been better written but let’s not try to mold fantasy from reality. If it’s not ur things it’s fine just don’t read it
@@markigirl2757 This is literally the attitude we're fighting against, the idea that harming real people in the real world can be excused by "don't like don't read." Twilight had real, negative impacts on the Quileute tribe; that's not excusable.
Wow I literally never thought of it like that. I was around 12 when I first read the series and even I found it disgusting that Jacob imprinted on a literal child. And then the scars Sam inflicted on his gf (blanking on her name right now), definitely interesting when you look at the whole picture instead of the separate situations
@@markigirl2757 Seeing as ficiton does reflect back on reality (ex.: racism or racial prejudices), it's definitely more than just "don't like don't read". This series had real life negative consequences for a whole native American tribe that had their culture appropriated for a horrible YA flick. People's livelyhood and culture legitimately got hurt.
You can't seriously be ignorant enough to just brush that aside with "don't like don't read". It's literally the bare minimum as a person to not drag someone else through the mud for your own gain, especially not a group that's historically suffered like native americans. You can expect the bare fucking minimum.
Even if we follow the rule of „when you transform you lose all melanin“ that doesn’t mean all vampires are white. There are Asian people, Native American people, just generally light skinned POCs. It would be a great opportunity to include people with albinism (who lack the ability to produce melanin). Still there would be the issue of colorism, but at least we could have some representation?
one of the things that I found fascinating about midnight sun is how... straight up bad and flawed Edward is written to be (intentionally or not). In twilight, Bella is always going on and on about how good and caring and selfless he is, and yet, midnight sun never shows it, even in scenes where doing so would be the easy thing to do. Like when he sees Bella for the first time and thinks about killing everyone in the room; it would be easy to show he thinking about the pain it would cause to the family of the victims, or even to feel guilty about taking those lives, and YET - the only reason why Edward doesn't do that is because Carlisle would be dissapointed. It would stain his reputation as the perfect son, and put him on the same level (or even beneath) the rest of the family. Is not that he cares about commiting murder; he cares about what Carlisle thinks of him. Later in the book Edward finds out Jacob told Bella about the history between the Cullens and the quilleutes, and considers that he and his family should commit genocide and kill the entire tribe (now that they don't have the wolfs to protect them) to make sure their secret is safe. He doesn't disminishes the idea because that would be wrong; he does so because he knows Carlisle wouldn’t agree with that. He doesn't care about humans, he just likes to use the idea of losing his humanity in his "poor me" narrative - in the book, he always thinks of humans as fragile and weak creatures beneath him. I love the beginning of MS, which is a perfect example of that, when Edward is angst about his powers, going on about how he and Alice are freaks even in a family of freaks in his "poor me" style, but in the second he can't read Bella's mind he freaks out with the possibility of losing his powers and becoming just a >normal< vampire, showcasing how, despite his self hatred, he still considers himself to be above anyone else - with the exception being those who he completely idolizes, like Carlisle and Bella (and the only reason he does so is because he can't read her mind, and thus, is free to make up anything he wants). He's just so vain and selfcentered - it doesn't matter how many times he blames his vampirism for messing things up in his relationship with Bella, he wouldn't actually >want< to become a human, or do so, given the possibility, because deep down, he views his vampirism and his mind reading powers as things that make him special. There's also the fact that, when combining his powers with Alice and Jasper, allowing him to read everyones mind, feel and manipulate their feelings, and see all possibilities of future and pick and choose the best option, Edward is the closest thing to a ominiscent narrator of the twilight saga; almost everything that happens happens with either his acceptance or at his will - including the new moon plot, Bella's suffering when he lefts her. He's just so- !!!!! you know? At times, is almost as if the narrative was aware of that, aware of how twisted he is and how this is more of a horror story than a romance.
Of course the narrative is away of how messed up Edward is. He calls himself a selfish monster every 10 seconds. Edward is a very very flawed protagonist... despite Bella being an unreliable narrator where Edward is concerned, the narrative always makes sure to regularly remind us of this.
But really that's the point. You get flawed protagonists at the beginning of a story so they have an actual character arc as the story progresses.
You are soooo spot on with this. I honestly feel like MS does the exact same thing to Bella too. In the original Twilight novels, OTHER characters would go on about how selfless and kind Bella apparently is, but when you read Bella's inner thoughts and see how she treats her friends, she's kind of really mean and judgmental! Like, even though her friends care about her, she thinks of them with such disdain and only considers them when they're useful to her. But then, in MS, suddenly there are these brand new scenes written in where Bella is being selfless and helping people. Like when she apparently helped out a troubled student in one of her classes and Edward saw it. That version of Bella straight up did not exist in the original imo.
It's like once she started writing MS, Stephanie realized that she didn't write Bella to be as nice as she thought she did, and she felt like she needed to convince everyone that Bella really is a nice person.
As someone who's done a bit of research I can say that vampires being exclusively white wouldn't make much sense within mythology. The term "vampire" comes from the 18th century English word "vampir" the legend itself is far older. Here are some of my favourite black and brown vampires from across the globe:
In West Africa the Ashanti people tell of the asanbosam, fanged humanoid people who drink blood and live in the wilderness, often described as having teeth of iron their bite
was so deadly.
In ancheint Greece there were stories of the vorvolakas which were generally described as looking like humans but taller and stronger, often being mistaken for regular people. And seeing as at the time most people in Greece would have had a brown skin tone and I couldn't find a mention of vorvolakas being unusually pale we can presume they too were brown. They also had the strix (also called strega), winged blood drinkers often with human features. In the case of the strega I couldn't find anything regarding skintone.
In Madagascar the Betsileo people tell of the ramanga, who fit the description of the European vampire very well, coming out at night, drinking blood, having supernaturally heightened physical abilities et cetera. Ramanga are usually depicted as outlaws who use survival skills and weaponry such as bows and arrows as well as their bite.
The word vampire did not originate in english. The serbo-croatian word vàmpīr is the first one to be used in 1725. I don't know anything about all the other facts you stated but opening with something false makes me not believe anything else.
@@Aniracia lol you just showed your unwillingness to accept that the vampire myth exists in other non white cultures. You could’ve just googled those names for yourself. But nah rather accuse someone of lying so you could dwell in your bigotry.
@@kayanurshiya3778 you are reading quite a bit into my comment 😅
I don't know why you think I said that vampire myths don't excist in other countries, I never said that.
And I don't know how you get the feeling that I am a bigot because I corrected the one thing that I know is wrong.
English is not my first language maybe I made a mistake somewhere?
My emphasis is in starting a comment full of facts with something that is wrong, which brings everything said afterwords up for debate. Why believe someone the second time when the first time was false...
@@kayanurshiya3778 Whats bigoted in correcting your mistake? By saying that you look irrational.
I personally always assumed vampires were white skinned because bodies lose their color when they are drained of blood.
Though in the case of POC vampires like Laurant and the Amazons, they still retain some of their color.
the fact that this video is half an hour and you hit us with the "but wait - there's more!" in the intro... my twilight obsession is being well fed today. sprinting to patreon
omg
@@Shanspeare Write your own story if you want a black vampire romance novel. I prefer black people as the human monster hunters in First Kill.
@@Shanspeare Warch What We Do In The Shadows. If black people do vampire movies, we should have our own interpretation like Taika Watiti.
See this is why Blade is the superior vampire franchise. They had vampires of all races & it was cool af.
I think if Twilight was written by a different person it would have been better. If written by someone else maybe the story could of had a chance. A chance to have more diversity and no racism. Maybe we would have better characters to look up to. Some decent fan fictions on the internet I guess will do that job.
Don't you think that it's possible (!) to add more colored characters to the story doesn't make much sense and use for the plot?
@@Julia13jd Having more diverse characters doesn't need to add anything to the plot. People of color exist in real life for the same reasons white people do. Why should POC need a reason to exist in stories other than the fact that they exist in real life?
@Joy C.E. Thank you 👏
@@Julia13jd minorities shouldn’t have to justify their own existence to be represented in fiction
@@Julia13jd don't call poc "colored"
Hilarious that Edward constantly wrote off Rosalie until she fell in love with a male character. I'm not sure if that's sexist, but it definitely speaks to the obsession with monogamy in these books.
exmormon here. meyer's anti-indigenous racism is absolutely common among mormon communities and deeply rooted, and the point about assuming ownership of native culture is completely spot on. for a local 3 day youth activity retreat, the leaders literally had us larp as native americans- and to somehow make it worse, fused the fantasy with facets unique to maori culture. literally had us make our own outfits, sleep in tipis, and taught us the haka before having us fight with foam weapons. not exaggerating.
Love that you add where we can donate to the Quileute Tribe. They were done so wrong by Stephanie and her books. I hate to hear that they are struggling to keep their culture alive.
They should be grateful. Before Twilight no one even knew they existed.
@@lucillahassen1989 I disagree. So would the tribal leaders whos culture was exploited. But hey if you think you have the authority to tell indigenous people how to feel go ahead. But just remember they suffer because of our ancestors, who probably also told them to be grateful they weren’t slaughtered.
The whole series would’ve made so much more sense if the Cullens were portrayed as the villains they are
A dead body will lose all colour and appear very pale regardless of the person's skin tone. However, in the twilight universe, the transformation into vampire does not entail the draining of blood and dead-to-undead transition that would "justify" the aggressive whiteness of Meyer's vampires. Basically, she made up all her own rules anyway, so she had no reason to not be more diverse
My guy no. Melanin doesnt just fade cuz youre dead.
Oop that last sentence 👌
Maybe but I'm sure you can tell different races apart even after death so it's a dumb rule
Twilight vampires mostly don't have blood. New borns have some left in their body, but it get used up as their vemon sort of eats it away. So if the loss of blood does justify pale skin, then it applies to Meyers vamps just like it does other vamps.
That said, we have seen with Laurant and the Amazons that there is diversity in vampires. Its not common, but it exists.
I am sorry but I HAVE to add this. I am someone that has had the displeasure of seeing literally hundreds of dead bodies through my life not only as the child of a detective but living in a country where people do not see death as that traumatizing. Dark skinned black and indian (as in the country) people DO NOT look that different when dead. It is very much a thing relegated to slightly lighter people (like overwhelming majority of the worlds population).
We do look different when dead and drained of blood just not 'pale'
I actually really enjoyed Midnight Sun. There's so much tension hearing repeatedly how much he wants to murder a girl he goes from hating to pedestalizing. The thing I find uncomfortable is all the racist ish she pushes. She really made Jasper a former confederate soldier without delving deeper into that to explain if and how his views have changed at all. Or if he was one of those that insists it had nothing to do with slavery? Nothing?
And reading how she frames the Indigenous people and contrasts them with the rich, pale white, upper class Cullens is just...gross. The fact that she used a _real_ group of people for this( didn't even give them a cut of the profits either) nonsense makes it wayyyy worse. The whole thing reads as a love letter to mormon flavored racism.
But ignoring that, I like it.😅
Agreed
True trueeee sad bc that’s where they could shine back then and actors take whatever role they can do they probably didn’t question it
My first time asking my friend why she thinks vampires can't be black, she said "because they're dead, duh!"... should I tell her black people get darker when we die?
Laurant and the Amazons seemed fairly dark skinned, so it doesn't seem like much of an issue to me.
@@noelbernabe8704 Yeah, but I personally don't like black people as vampires or werewolves unless its a story specifically about them and they're the protagonist like Blade. Stephenie Meyer writes from her own limited imagination. I don't think she's well rounded in African, Asian or Arabian fiction or anything outside of the European lense. And her books are already cringe, I think she's saving us a lot of grief by sticking to what she knows. I prefer First Kill with the black human monster hunter.
@@suzygirl1843 Thats sort of a double edged sword though. On the one hand I can see why race potentially makes the issue of casting more sensitive. But on the other it sort of seems unfair that black actors would get less work because of it.
The actor who played Laurent did a pretty good job, and I'm not sure anyone would have been done any favors if he was denied the role became was black.
I'm not black, but I am a poc and I personally would have loved to play the role of Laurent if I were given the opportunity.
@@noelbernabe8704 I mean, I would've liked the directors take of a diverse Coven. Hire a deaf actress for Esme since she gets the least speaking lines. Or offer subtext to racial dynamics between Jasper and Emmett if one of them was black; Jasper fought for the Confederacy and there were lots of black Confederate soldiers too.
I mean y most vampires get very pale tho im confused
What's funny is Twilight had already had its renaissance on Tumblr, like two or three years prior to the book coming out (I think maybe it was in 2018), and it was typically a mix of people who hated the series in 2008, who had come around and actually started to like the series, and people who had liked it but was scared of showing it in 2008. That was the first time I saw actual good discussions around problematic themes in Twilight, and not just BuT tHe VaMpIrEs SpArKlE. That's also when the "effervecent snail" meme started
i don't care about twilight but if it's a shanspeare video, i'll watch it
When I went to go see Twilight and Laurent's character came on screen I was horrified. "Get that man some lotion!" Was all I could think. They did my mans wrong for that.
Also thank you for distinguishing pale poc and dark-skinned poc, I've been excluded from some circles bc of the idea that paleness=whiteness. Reality is that honey, my 001 shade foundation ass is not exempt from systemic racism
This👏🏼
Listen, this is Stephenie Meyers' story. We shouldn't complain, especially if black people were to write, publish and produce our own stories and they white-wash or lighten the skin of the protagonist like in Monster High. Tyler Perry Studios exist. Maybe intern at his studios and come up with something of your own.
@@suzygirl1843 ??? That wasn’t clear
@@user-tx2ei7uk6k I am saying. It's not fair to ask a Morman woman to write about stuff she knows nothing about. She probably will base her characters off of stereotypes and we'll deconstruct it to no end - look at Leah Clearwater's character - do you want to be written like that in comparison to Bella?
@@suzygirl1843 Ohhh yeah I agree with you
I was raised in the church or Latter Day Saints. I read the Bible and Book of Mormon when I was ten and I had a lot of questions; mostly about the Curse of Cain because my best friend is an indigenous Australian POC.
I used to get kicked out of Sunday school almost weekly for asking questions. My mum would find me waiting on the hall at the end of class almost every Sunday. I confronted her with a lot of my problems with the text and we both decided to leave the church.
I also found out later that POC weren’t allowed to be preachers for LDS until the late 70s 👀
I read the Quileute tribe as being the good guys that protect the rest of humanity from the vampires, who are bad. So what if the Cullens are good guys, they're the exception. If they have trouble controlling themselves when vampires are around it's the vampires' fault, they were getting on calmly with their lives until the bad guys came back.
I thought that's how everyone was seeing it... apparently not. Jacob is my favourite character since I read book 2. Team Jacob yay...
Thank youuu I’m team Edward and I still know that Jacob is one of the kindest people and sweetest boys I read. He’s so cute. I just love Edward because he’s brooding and protective
That's not how Stephanie framed it, unfortunately.
The wolves are flawed good guys, just like the Cullens are.
We have to remember that the good guys in Twilight are still monsters. That carries a lot of baggage. They're not evil per say...but the wolves and vampires are dangerous. Paul and Jasper have both tried to kill Bella at different times.
@@Aster_Risk Clearly the wolves are framed as good guys in Meyers book. The fight alongside the Cullens against the newborn army and the Volturi. Jacob is one of the main leads in the book.
That's not to say the wolves don't have their issues, but the same can be said about the Cullens.
@@noelbernabe8704 TELL THEM! Cause these people bugged.
oh my god was i was reading the comments about the relationship between mormon and indigenous ppl, i thought back to this "foster program" my mom and uncle did when they were kids in the late 1970s/1980s,,, it was w two mormon families in Utah. my mom mentions it every now and then and i always thought it was a strange program bc ive NEVER met anyone else do a similar program before and i always wondered even HOW my grandparents even got their children to do a program where they lived with a different family for a year because thats a wild concept to me,,, AND THEN YOU TALK ABOUT THIS RELOCATION PROGRAM AND NOW I KNOW/REALIZE MY MOM WAS A PART OF THAT PROGRAM?!?!?!?! (we're navajo) thats soooo crazy bc considering what ive learned about Native American history, we NEVER learned about that nor our specific relationship with mormons.
i only knew historically it wasnt COMPLETELY strange to have mormons living on reservations because of missionaries and stuff but NOW knowing that within their religion, it was SPECIFICALLY taught indigenous people were considered evil makes that past history even more disturbing and horrifying. Jesus
yep my dad was a missionary to the navajo reservation and there's even more colonization rhetoric pushed for indigenous americans, north and south, than in other parts of the world. there's a huge emphasis on "teaching them about their true origins/ancestry/history". it's been a while since i've been in the church but it goes extremely deep and many in my grandmother's generation (including her) did fostering specifically to try and recruit native kids.
Wanna hear something funny? Those books were so poorly written I didn’t even notice some of the Indigenous racism. Everything she wrote about them was illogical and silly I didn’t even think the depiction of their culture was racist.
What I did pick up real quick was how every thing that was good was light bright and very white. While everything bad was dark and brooding. There was very a much a sense of “the good ones”, whenever the Indigenous people did anything heroic. Also their willingness to rally and protect the white girl (even though what’s her name was a threat to ever), but they didn’t seem to have the same desire to protect their own women in the same way.
if you mean when the native lady stabbed herself to distract the cold one so they can all survive I guess we don't need em 😂
you’re so right about the light and dark motifs. even both love interests homes reflect that (when it doesn’t fully make sense) . like jacob’s community is always gloomy and gray and rainy (even though they live right on the beach) meanwhile the cullens literally live in the woods in this nasty ass modern glass and steel box but bella is like “wow it’s so LIGHT and BRIGHT and cozy in this minimalist kardashian home/hellscape”
Shan please I beg you watch First Kill and give your take. It’s cheesy but I think I’m all the right ways. Often with media’s portrayal I find Lesbians relationships are exploited to fit this narrative of women “adventuring” or “performing” for an audience instead of showing a lesbian relationship the way we depict heterosexual love stories, however, in first kill it’s real, it’s just two teenage girls in love, also the representation within the series is much better than most Netflix original teen movies. I like that just because Cal’s family is black doesn’t mean they experience all the black trauma one could experience in an entire lifetime on screen to PROVE they are black. It’s just a vampire x Hunter love story
yes!! please talk about it
What platform is it on??
It's on Netflix!
yes i love that show!!
Wow, I hadn't heard of that quote before about vampires all turning white?! That's a yikes and a half, and also explains a lot. It is a shame she didn't focus more of the story on the family relationship, that does actually sound interesting! (And side note, but you're the first person I've seen sponsored by a language app who actually tries speaking a language other than English x'''D Cheers, and good luck on your Spanish journey, from one language learner to another! :D)
The thing about Shans videos is that they're so deadly, i watch one and end up binge watching 10 more 😭😭 And this is definitely making wanna more more horror and vampire related videos that shan has made. I love it ❤❤❤❤
2:07 There's an old Yiddish proverb: "If you're rich you're smart and handsome and can sing too." Basically that people are a lot more willing to praise your abilities if they think you're wealthy.
Vampires appear in almost literally every culture around the world and just in slightly different ways. Europe and America just happened to monopolize on their vampire first, that’s why we now see their racist lens.
Was thinking this too. Like many books in The past in Europe protrayed them like that bc it was the fear of isolated rich folks taking money from the poor and metaphorically written as predators that suppose to be “good”
As a romanian the only reason people think we are vapires is due to Bram Stoker's Dracula. He visited Wallahia for a sort while and the wrote the book. Bdw Vlad the Impaler has nothing to do with Transylvania, he ruled over Wallahia, is just becaue the only castle that resembles the one from the book is there.
Why do black people want to be VAMPIRES? I sure don't. I prefer the human monster hunter. In fact after seeing First Kill, now I want a reboot/ sequel of Twilight but introduce Monster Hunters. Carlisle was a Monster Hunter in the 1600's before he turned.
Having flowers grow from my hair, would better than being a vampire.
@@fangirldreamer748 Has she seen What We Do In Thr Shadows?
agreed: if you want to write a narrative based on what you know - which is whiteness - then to be honest there is nothing wrong with that AT ALL...the issue comes up if i (black fantasy fan) have a narrative that BANGS based on what I know - which is blackness - the odds of it receiving a showrunner is next to none - unless it.s based on what those with the "bags" are comfortable with funding which is stereotypical cultural destruction narratives of people who look like me...thus the paradox...so i am forced to accept the fact that representation will either be limited and or disingenuous..
not the white mans place to pander to your culture,if you want a black vampire movie then make one,we gave you blade and proved a black vampire can sell
this demand that we must do shit is offensive,imagine if whites went to africa and told them to inc x amount of euros in their movies or else....we simply dont yet every fucker demands we do it for our own movies im sick of hearing it.
You’re the only TH-camr I have notifications on for, you’re personality is contagious and I’m so excited to watch this :]
don’t make me cry please
@@Shanspeare I noticed something, during the 90's there was racial harmony and black women faired well in the music charts with Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, and Whitney Houston. But the mid to late 2000's... I think media made an aggressive change which ultimately drove a wedge between white & black girls. They displaced the black entertainers (Janet Jackson, TLC, Blaque) and invested heavily in white superstars (Britney Spears) which put minorities in a weird spot where you're either the unattractive bestfriend or you're the villain if you're pretty ie. Hannah Montana.
I didn't mind it at first until it was EVERYWHERE. There's no in between. Bring It On was bold enough to share the story between Kirsten Dunst and Gabrielle Union and that was in the year 2000. It still holds up. I respected the friendly competition and uncomfortable conversations. But now you hardly see any of that. People want their own segregated stories or it's shoehorned disingenuous Feminist girl boss movies.
I can’t get over how after the first movie they caked Laurent with ashy powder to make him “pale”
Random question if a person who happens to pass away would they keep their color or is it normal that a corpse loses their color?
If you say a corpse loses their color then DUH that’s the freaking point. Vampires are pale, Twilight version at least, because they literally have no blood in their system. 🤦♀️
I think people use the “he’s centuries old” excuse when it’s explicitly stated on the twilight wiki that vampires freeze when they are turned. Edward may be able to learn any high school curriculum or any language but he physically can’t develop more mature emotional intelligence or interpersonal maturity.
I mean until he met Bella…
One day I stumbled upon an insta page that was a bunch of actors pretending to be Bella, Edward, Alice etc and were throwing events in Forks like Bella and Edwards wedding and ACTUAL PEOPLE PAID TO GO AND WATCH as their guests and shit. It was all very serious and people CRIED in the videos. I havent found their page since, has anyone else seen this shit or was all that a fever dream?
NO I REMEMBER THIS TOO it was so funny i followed someone who went to the “wedding” on ig
I’m waiting for someone to re-write a story of “gothic happenings in the Pacific Northwest” but make in an inclusive emo/goth type brooding love story (but like, without the emotional unavailability and abuse)
that would be great, but conformists usually suck at depicting alt people outside of the overdone "nobody understands me" trope or the one where we're flat out rude and insufferable
I remember reading the leaked copy can't believe it's been this long.
I've always wanted a book on just the Cullen's and their back stories as well as their lives in general, they were always way more interesting than whatever BellEdwarJacob had going on. This woman Stephanie had so much rich lore and botched it continuously.
The thing is Twilight is a YA book. Of course it focused on the love triangle because that's pretty much what YA books do. I'm not saying I don't agree that the other aspects were interesting, but she understoond her audience and knew how to cater to them.
Considering that Twilight became a legit social phenomenon which ended up making Meyers one of the most sucessful female writers in history, I don't think we can fairly call what she did a botch.
I actually wanted her to write more stories based on the Cullen clan including the Amazon and Egyptian tribe but we got Bree Tanner instead
I don't trust her to write about poc tbh
@@MadameCorgi To be honest, now that I did some digging of my own, aside from this video, I can understand why you would say that especially since she had a tantrum when the first director (Twilight) tried to diversify the cast.
@@neutraliserjanine long way to say you're whitewashed.
I never read the books, nor was I ever really into the Twilight films, but I had a friend who was super into it so I watched the movies plenty of times.
The racist undertones were always there for me. Jacob is made more and more unlikable with every film, Jasper turns out to have been a confederate (wtf😭), and there's barely any black people in the cast.
The mostly white cast feels extremely vanilla and boring, especially because the acting is also extremely flat, and some characters are blank slate or just straight up annoying.
I haven’t watched twilight in years so this video really opened my eyes to some things. Looking back I remember feeling a little annoyed by the way the werewolves/tribe were represented in the story vs the Cullens. I find it interesting that even in my young mind before I rly understood how narratives derived from white supremacy show up in the world I knew something didn’t sit right w me abt the narrative.
Just because vampires are vs werewolves? Lol in reality Bella see the wolves as the good guys. The protectors of humanity. Y’all need to stop. It ain’t like that and it’s not that deep.
@@angelarivera6010 Angela, none of this is deep. It's very surface level. You just like defending racism. Come to terms with it.
@@angelarivera6010 just say you’re racist and go
It’s sad. Y’all wish it was that simple. Justifying racism is a big no for me. But calling out bull on a book that portrayed the natives as the protectors and good guys. Just don’t know why y’all grasping for straws.
Barely even started the video and already loving it. The casual confidence of "I'm good at my job" made my heart flutter.
as a spanish speaker i BURSTED INTO LAUGHS WHEN I HEARD THE "va-gee-nah" its just hilarious
Honestly I always interpret vampire paleness as relating more to a lack of saturation as opposed to darkness. Like, I think people of color can be vampires and have be paleness by having their skin still be dark, but more muted and grey (same idea for white people-grey skin). Also, and this is just a personal opinion, but I think that notion would combine really well with the “vampires sparkle in the sun” idea. Imagine how cool that could look: you see a brilliant and luminescent sparkling person, and as you Instinctually follow them into the shadows the color and light fades away, leaving a muted and gray tone that fills you with the dread of death. So yeah: muted-yet-still-varied skin tones!
I like this she just didn't do anything good with her ideas, Rosalie was wasted as well as alice etc.
i was raised mormon (like SUPER mormon, a family friends dad actually went to prom with stephanie meyer) and you cannot divorce the church with racism. the book of mormon and the other biblical writings we used all reinforced the white/light is good dark/black is bad idea so i'm not surprised with jade's account unfortunately. i was taught that when you go to heaven you are your most perfect form so you won't have any disabilities or physical problems which is... woof. so i'm sure a lot of leaders thought and then taught the idea that you will be white in heaven. Black people weren't even allowed into the church until 1978. just seeing how i was treated vs my friend and her Black family in our ward is telling, knowing that her dad lived through that and so did all the older white people so they of course were racist and used their own church to justify it.
just look up a picture of the general authorities and the quorum the seventy, you can see that mostly white people have power. in only 2019 did they have their first Black person in a position of higher power. missions are a whole other can of worms because of white saviorism. they only care about the amount of names they get to add to their church.
in conclusion... the mormon church is racist i can't enjoy twilight because it all just seems like an allegory to the church that traumatized me and thank you shanspeare for you video and analysis
Me and my boyfriend had sooo much fun watching the last Twilight video but I sure am not waiting for him to watch this one
Why?
@@mimithebest3991 because he's busy and I have waited for too long for this🙂and we will rewatch it later together, we always do🙂
@@annamartinu1918 ohh okay 🤣
No sabía lo mucho que necesitaba escuchar a Shanspeare hablando en español hasta ahora omgGg
😂
I'm glad you talked about the lds history of racism
it took me 20 mins in to realize that she's dressed like bella with the hair, hairband and the jacket lol
As a Dominican-Guinean (meaning my first language in both countries is Spanish) Tu español es bastante bueno. Keep going girl!!
I've been binge watching your videos all evening and was just looking for more....you uploading right now was perfect and I am so thankful
omg those pics of you as freud though?? i SCREAMED i've never seen anything more iconic
i'm still kinda icked out by the adoptive siblings dating trope :I
Omg I love your videos, I get so excited when you post!! 🥰 You have such a sharp way of pointing out problematic elements of media, and I'm engaged the whole time! Also, thank you so much for including the mention of ways to donate to the Quileute Tribe after Meyers was so eager to use their culture to further her own success but not actually do anything productive for them
"it was a belief but it's not anymore" ....so it's true lmao
just because the people talking for the mormon church say it's not a thing anymore, it doesn't mean various churches (possibly stephanie meyer's) don't still mention it or have it intertwined with their beliefs.....
Thank you for this amazingly well thought out and researched video! A very important topic to be covered!!
Such great insight into the mythical world of Twilight in which the unfortunate event of erasure still occurs like wow and I would have never even thought the tribe was based from reality since nothing else clearly was 🤦🏽♀️ like why Stephanie
Hey idk how long you've been uploading but you're one of my favorite creators I've come across in the last few years, always here to support ♥️
In Europe vampires are portrayed with a grey or with a purple skin color, because they are more or less dead. So when I watched Twilight I thought the extreme fair skin color is just way of showing that they are ill or almost dead. So I never thought that this is discrimination against black people.
However it was obvious that the people who made Twilight were discriminating native Americans. They were portrayed in a very awful way.
How so? Honestly I got the opposite. The natives were kind and caring. Family oriented and open armed beautiful cultured people. Even Jacob before he changes is a beautiful honest character who loves his tribe and takes care of his father. Only after he changes is when he can’t control himself. It’s a book about werewolves vs vampires. Like come on. Breaking dawn shows their are black vampires with pales skin. Amazon and Egyptian covens for example.
@@angelarivera6010 Give it up. It was racist.
Natives “cant control themselves”
@@RKateb werewolves* “ can’t control themselves” same as new born white and black and Asian and Hispanic vampire’s.
I can’t believe I only now found your channel!! This is my favorite kind of content! ❤ you’re brilliant and your speaking voice is really nice to listen to!!
fantastic analysis. you truly blow me away everytime. loved this so much. keep up the great work
I think you're absolutely right about the family stuff - and I think that's actually the fantasy of Twilight that sticks with me, not really the romance. The true fantasy is being an immortal rich pretty person constantly surrounded by a patient and loving family. The arc is Bella-becomes-a-Cullen. (Which, if you read becoming a Cullen as conversion-to-Mormonism is, yikes. But I guess people convert because they are compelled, and the Cullens are compelling.)
Love you and your videos! Loving the pull on the Bella Swan fit here too!
edit: 6:06 ooooohhh, yes. you make it look good.
even when i was like 11 reading these books, the aspect i was most interested in was the cullen family. i used to watch video after video on youtube of "alice/rosalie's story" hahahah
Goth community take NOTES!!!!!
Why exactly?
Absolutely love all of your videos and seeing this one pop up in my sub box make me squeal, I love lookbacks on Twilight (even tho I never was into it)
This is a pleasant surprise, I can't wait to watch it
🧛🏾♀️❤️❤️❤️
gahh, this vid is sooo good!! I used to be obsessed w/ Twilight 😭 but felt as if I couldnt relate bc of my race. obvs I now know it's an uncultured uninclusive film
oh yes. I've been waiting for this one. thank you for this
thank u for watching and commenting bestie
I am literally listening to the audio book of Midnight Sun rn !!! (A whole 26 hours btw)
Oh my god 💀
26 HOURS???
This was really well done and i really enjoyed this! 👍🏾👍🏾
less than a minute in and its an IMMEDIATE subscribe. you are so eloquent in your thoughts! yes yes yesss
i was really close to reading midnight sun JUST for the family bond. had someone talk about it similarly to how you did and it made me so happy and warm inside :)
as a mexican subscriber i cannot tell you how proud i am of your spanish😭
I didn’t even finish the video yet and I’m already so happy 😁
YOU NAILED THIS!!!!
This was so good. Thank you so much for all your hard work.
I am a Native member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And I gotta say, you did a lot of research, and I can't say that it's wrong. There is a problematic history with race, and there still are many problems with race currently. Thank you for dealing with these topics with sensitivity and delicacy. It still hurts to think about the Native placement program that happened with the Navajo tribe. It still appalls me to think of the misinformation and discrimination and hate that has been perpetrated against people of color within and without of the Church. I'd like to say that I still believe the beliefs and teachings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by the Church, as I feel that following them is leading me to be a better person and allows me to serve others in different ways. However, there is and always should be a separation between the beliefs and the people who hold those beliefs because the teachings are idealistic, and the people are far from perfect. But I'm working to change because that's one of greatest beliefs is that we can change. Anyways, from a member of the Church, I'm sorry to people of color. And I'm trying to do my part to call out ignorance and discrimination from others and within myself.
I mean, do you. But...ever heard of assimilation? You don't have to do that. Maybe one day you will realize the amount of self loathing that you endure is because of the church. You don't have to do that. There is peace outside of dogmatic religions, religions that have participated and rejoiced in the genocide and assimilation and erasure of your people.
You'd be a better person if you stopped propping up one of the most harmful organizations in the United States. You aren't doing your best if you are a member of that church.
So you believe your ancestors are from some lost Israelite tribe originally? Even though all archeology and genetics contradicts this, as well as traditional beliefs of Native nations?
To racists in fandom, In the words of Moses Ingram, y'all weird.
Exactly why I’m not in fandoms. People in that fandom completely overlook the Confederacy because hot vampire guy 🧛.
This was so entertaining! Thankyou 💛
Thank you so much for making this video! It is AMAZING!
Babe wake up new Shan video just dropped
WAKE UP 🎤
I tried but I couldn't make it through Midnight Sun. I'm a romance editor and there were just too many things that were poorly written.
another masterpiece of a video, your kind is genuinely awe inspiring!!
i’ve been waiting for this one