The CRAZIEST Cluster You Have EVER Seen! (Ford Escape)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- This 2012 Ford Escape has 56k miles on the odometer.
It's suffering from some MAJOR electrical glitches:
1) The instrument cluster has a mind of its own
2) Battery drains overnight
3) A/C doesn't work
4) Headlights come on on their own
5) Can't open liftgate with the key on
Let's take a logical approach and use the appropriate tools plus the patented "Keith Tap Test" to narrow down the source of the problem.
Will parts be required?
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Enjoy!
Ivan
New drinking game - take a sip of beer every time Ivan taps on the car's dash.
I can't drink that fast
That's not a drinking game, that's just chugging.
I love the way Ivan’s mind works, he is always searching for the root cause of the problem! Plus knowing how to find and use the right tools to identify and solve the problems. He is definitely not a parts changer! Thanks Ivan for always putting the customers first.
I appreciate the comment, Bill 🙂
I also like Ivan's generic methodology. But in this specific case the cause could have been identified and resolved without using computerized tools. Electronic components (not electrical connections to them) are rarely effected consistently and intermittently by gross mechanical movements or vibration.
I remember my networking teacher always stressing this to us in class. He always said “If something isn’t working check for the three c’s. Connection, connection, connection!!!”
Boy, that turned out to be a real cluster f**k ... Someone had to say it :)
Great no parts fix! My father in law has the 2010 version. Had a similar problem on a 2011 2500hd with radio's aux button. Turned off and on intermittently. Took it apart found and repaired a cold solder joint. Love your vids Ivan, I'm learning a lot
Good fix! This is a somewhat common issue with the Ford Super Duty truck clusters from the early 2000s. They have two connectors and years of bouncing cracks the solder joints.
Cool! So reflowing the joints makes them good for another 20 years?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I've done two of them and not had one come back. But they never had any of the wacky issues you had, just various parts of the cluster would stop working.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I would Guarantee it will never come back for bad solder joints in the cluster, now that you have done a proper soldering job on those connections. Much better job than a robot at the factory.😉👍👍👍
Guess I've been luck. 2000 Excursion and the only cluster problem I have is burnt out illumination lights. I'm not taking stuff apart and breaking things to fix that.
the planned obsolescence trigger has tripped LOL
Planned obsolescence is not funny. Its a major cause of global environmental decline. It was tripped for the electronics industry in the 1950s and its "technology" has now totally infected the automotive industry. This is encouraged by our government to drive consumption regardless of consequences, and a motivator for ever-increasing mandated "safety" equipment that has a exponentially declining return on consumer investment. If you believe that EVs will be less expensive for our society to have lower total product lifetime cost of ownership and operation, you will be disappointed.
“Come on wake up” 🤣. I did that too when I try to solve intermittent problems. Amazing diagnostic.
I'd be willing to bet the same or similar fix would apply to that center display, as well. I was certain right off the bat the center display issue was separate from the lights on the dash. Nice work again, Ivan!
Ford has this problem in the factory radio where the display goes dim or out and will sometimes come back on if you smack it . Just a bad solder joint . I fix them and clusters for my customers . .
You're clearly unfamiliar with Ford's patented DashTap(tm) switch technology.
This guy is an automotive genius.
That's Ivan! I love this channel because I too love the diagnostic process.
No, an amateur. A genius knows that spray will not solve the problem and it will come back.
New Ford idea..the Tap and see system...lol..way to go IVAN😎
Percussive maintenance fixes it, until it gets this bad!! I think the cluster was loosing the ground feed. The microprocessor in the cluster was finding a ground through the MS CAN High line causing it to pull up and taking the network down. Awesome find Ivan. Now you know what the problem is with the other display too!
Yeah was thinking bad ground but that's not where I would have checked. Kudos to Ivan for checking it out thoroughly. I guess the radio was a symptom in a way, bad electronics.
THANKS!!!
I have been chasing a fuel gauge issue with some similar problems you show for a few years. I replaced the wires from the cluster to the pump and it worked for a day then back to issues.
Yesterday, my wife's Escape wouldn't start. Nothing on the dash but everything else worked. So i got it towed here. In the meantime, I search youtube for answers. I ordered a lock module for next day devlier. Then I found your video. When the tow trucked dropped the SUV I popped the dash cover off and pushed the harness to the right. LIGHTS UP DASH AND STARTED RIGHT UP!!!
I took out the cluster, resoldered the pins on the board, reinstalled, and now fuel gauge issues and other small issues are gone.
THANKS AND GREAT JOB DIAGNOSING IT!
Ivan, I've noticed (and repaired) several boards - in flat panel TVs, LCD displays, and other devices - that had cracked solder joints. It seems to have been a lot worse since RoHS lead-free solder rolled out in the 2000s. The cluster in that second generation Ford Escape rolled out - in 2008, right as the RoHS thing was peaking. I theorize that the board manufacturers hadn't quite worked out the kinks with the higher temperature solder flow on SMD board assembly... and that the lead free solder was harder (and more brittle). That combination isn't good for an instrument cluster that receives constant vibration!
I noticed when Ivan was reflowing the connector that he was using 60/40 solder. Methinks that with proper tin/lead solder that fix will hold up a good long time
Great video and fix for sure. I thought someone installed a clapper on the medium speed network. 🤣🤣🤣
So now I have in my box of tricks. The Keith tug test and the Ivan tap test 😂😂
It's also the Keith Tap Test 😁
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics patient pending
Yet another consequence of lead free solder. What was supposed to help the environment has only caused tons of broken electronic equipment to end up in landfills.
My car is pre-RoHS, and has had cracked solder joints. it's more due to thermal cycling (and increased dependence on PCB-mount connectors) than lead-free alloys being more brittle.
@@moconnell663 Sure, leaded solder can crack too, but as you said, the thermal cycling effects the lead-free solder far more due to its brittleness. Lead-free solder can also form whiskers over time (tin crystals) causing short circuits.
There are different types of lead free solder as well, with different characteristics. I'm sure that a lot of these issues are partly due to using the cheaper stuff.
@@sjn7220 That is absolutely true! I haven't had every system in my vehicle apart over the years, but one major difference between mine and this ford is that the PCB-mount connectors in my vehicle are all embedded in potting compound, there is no stress on any of the joints between the board and the pins, and the potting mitigates fluctuations in temperature (and whisker growth, if that were an issue). My failures have all been on goofy 70s-era relay designs that were still getting used in the early 90s.
I had a 1987 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II pre-RoHS - every single one of the 7 modules on the car had cracked solder joints. I took out all the modules and the 2 1/2 DIN radio to reflow all the joints.... It's not a new problem and it's mostly due to either not enough heat when it was assembled (my RX7 was a victim of that) or not enough solder, like when you run parts too fast through wave soldering, which is what it looks like here....
Thats some mad soldering skills. If I tried that, several more lights would mysteriously be lit up. good work
Ivan you just sold me on keeping my old buick. One small break in the cluster causes mayhem. Sounds like a political cluster problem.
Lol
Excellent diagnosis! easy to duplicate but hard to fixed. Thank you for taking us to the root cause of the problem! I wanted to see the medium speed pin solder joints but it is hard to see with the camera! Great job!
Good video Ivan I was shouting at the Computer screen first 20 minutes bad soldered joints! this is very common on the 2004 onwards models of fords in the UK ,Mostly causing non-starting, what I usually do is apply some mastic between the black plug connector and the cluster To stop the multi-plug pulling on the soldered joints, It makes the connector more secure and unable to flex , you should try doing this
My 04 F150 had a similar problem with the odometer and compass.....re-soldered the boards and everything worked fine! Also had to tap the cluster to read the odometer
Love Ivan! I just bought one of these! 2012 Ford Escape Limited 3.0V6! 76K miles
You never cease to amaze. 😊
Another strange one. I’d have charged him a diag fee at least. Great find on the medium Canbus. Resoldering is way above what most mechanics would do. Your clientele are lucky.
More top forensics from CSI Pine Hollow. Good objective and patient approach. (Disappointing lack of Parts-Cannon action though...).
Great diagnostic. Deductive reasoning works wonders
Every time you hit that dash I heard the word 'cheap', 'cheap', 'cheap'. Nice job Ivan!
No matter what mechanics, engineers, or scientists might say, some of us know the truth. It's haunted. Search your heart, you know it's true
Haha!!! "What are you trying to tell me??" "Who are you??"
Thank you very much for your information,i had a problem with the instrument cluster(sometimes the lock light doesn't go off and the car wont start),i have never done this before(i am not a mechanic),but i did it following your instructions,i found cold solder in the connector pins now looks ok , thanks !!!
Ivan, i have escape 2008 and it has the same 5 eletrical glitches. incredible. I will try tomorrow. thank you so much.
Now that was a really cool case study and fix.
Awesome job Ivan!
Great job you save ur customers a lots of money. Thanks for the video.
As an Automotive SW Engineer, I was convinced that because CAN lines are differential, it is very difficult for the data to get corrupted, also there is CRC that ensures that if some bits get flipped then the message will be discarded. So it is really strange how this is actually happening in SW. I posted before the end of the video, so actually the CAN just disappeared. That 90 angle connector without any other bracing just pulling on the pins is for sure not the best idea.
Because it’s a hardware problem...
I don't think corrupted messages are causing the warning lights. I think the fact the CAN signal is missing the instrument cluster can't receive packets from the TPMS or other modules and shows the warnings. Same with the headlight module, no data from the switch will turn on the lights for safety most likely. You can actually see in the scope the data from the modules is still there only one CAN line seems corrupted
Yes, this is what you usually do in the SW if you don't receive valid CAN data, you show some errors and you try to go to some error state or safe state.
@@bbogdanmircea makes sense
No error correcting can fix a MS CAN high line basically shorted to +12v. The cluster does a default error message display when the network is down. I believe the ground rail feeding the cluster is the cracked solder joint. That would be the only combination that would cause this. The internal microprocessor is finding a ground through the MS CAN high line causing it to pull up like that.
Ivan you are a genius! Great diagnosing skills!
I bet the other display issue could use some re-soldering too
Another amazing PHAD repair, well done Ivan 👍
Some amtech flux would make that reflow super easy. Great job!
Great diagnosis and repair Ivan. With free AC repair!!!!!!
Thanks for sharing.
Best regards from the UK.
John.
Done that many years ago. Tap and wiggle test. Always pulled the PC board and looked for cracks or burnt components. Fixed to many.
He said it's like a ghost, I have never laughed so much at a you tube film . Oh man I need to play pool with you
I recently inherited a 2011 Ford escape AWD 3.0L, however it came with these EXACT SAME PROBLEMS....dash/instrument panel lights randomly turn on and off killing battery, rear hatch not opening unless key is out of ignition, blinkers not working, and A/C not working suddenly. Then I decide to search on TH-cam and what do you know, your video was the first one, and It's literally the same exact vehicle year, make and model and identical electrical issues. My husband is a diesel mechanic and mainly works on excavating equipment, however he has the SAME scanner that you have and used in the video, minus the picoscope, but that's not a problem as you have already diagnosed the exact location of the issue and I will be taking apart my instrument panel tomorrow, and flowing some solder into the pin holes of the connector, just as you did in this video because I am sure it's the same exact problem in my truck! I just wanted to share my gratitude for you posting this video. My husband watches your channel all the time, and he got excited when he overheard that it was your video! He usually gets annoyed when i bug him to fix my car all the time, so this time I decided to try and figure it out myself, via the school of YoutTube, where i learn how to do things that i have no idea about, but NEVER EVER have i gotten this lucky and found a video that could walk me thru fixing my issue, and every detail was the same and matched my issue EXACTLY to a "T"!!! I seriously cant thank you enough!
My 2012 Ford Escape is having cluster issues similar. Thanks for the video. My guess was something like this.
2 Month Review, Was able to Order the Soldering Kit, Soldered all the pins like the guy in the video.
He did a fancy job of it, Mine looked a little ugly at first, but was able to clean it up a bit.
Put everything back together ( When you plug the connector in : Warning ) All needles will Start ticking and shaking, for 5 sec.
The Bigger Needles will adjust , Small ones will stay the same.
The RPM needle will automatically adjust 250 upwards, and the MPH will adjust 5MPH higher.
So make sure when you put the needles on, it looks as if your 1/4th of an inch below 0 on both, as they will adjust 1/4th of an inch upwards landing on 0 perfectly.
Removed Tire pressure fault light & Message
Removed traction control light
Removed Emergency brake light
This Fixed my Rear view Camera
Fixed passenger Seat heater
A/c works now
Headlights 15 to 20% brighter
Power steering feels easier
Brake Pedal is a little firmer
Accelerator is noticeably more responsive.
SirusXM radio Satellite 1 , 2 , 3 Available / works now.
Can Open Rear hatch Door while vehicle is on now.
Bonus: my battery isn't dead in the morning anymore.
Free AC fix was huge! What an upgrade with the summer coming.
Mad props on your tenacity..well done ~!
No parts required! Love it. I think charging him for your time is fair but you can't really give I'm a guarantee. Should it happen again, he clearly needs a cluster so that's a separate repair, imo. Thanks, Ivan. Good process.
been there done that, cold spray in combination with pinpoint heat source could possibly track down a cracked trace, bad solder etc. Love watching, now that I am retired, this is entertainment to me, who else would binge watch these posts :)
Late 80's 300ZX dash controller issue all over again. As a car audio repair tech in the late 90's, we got SO MANY of these repairs subbed out to us for the same reason...
Double bonus video !!!!!! I'm all giggly over here. Nice work ,Ivan!
The old Radio Shack 60/40 Solder. I prefer a bit of silver though 62/36/2. I thought I would never be able to buy it once they went out of business, but Radio Shack is back online and selling solder again!
Very excellent diagnostic troubleshooting and repair.
NO PARTS REQUIRED !!!!!! THE PARTS WHISPERER LOL !!!!! IVAN YOU ARE THE MAN !!!! COME TO NYC WE NEED YOU !!!
I just subscribed because you showed me in exact detail how to fix my 2012 Ford Escape’s Dash Shortage!!!
@@lylachristopherson865 nice work!
Great video, I had a similar issue with a Ford Kuga ,the problem was on the Hi speed can,
I measured the resistance of the can line and it showed 62ohms, removing the dash and soldered the connector cured this,
60 ohms is normal... What was the resistance after the fix?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Resistance was close to 60 ohms about 60.25 I am lucky to have a good microscope, looking very carefully at the solder joints, i could see the poor solder joint
Nice fix. Way to keep at it. Glad the customer got his AC fixed in the deal.
Love the birds in background
OMG! Thank you for this video. Bought a 2009 Ford escape limited. And had some crazy things happen where it will turn on to theft mode. So once you turn off the car. It won't turn on. I been using an object to keep the board functioning right. But I got tired of it and was ready to buy a new cluster.
Awesome job as always bud !
Thanks Keith, really means a lot! When are we doing a New Level Auto and PHAD reunion? 😎
No need to ask about the charge. Ya dug a little deeper and found the bad connection. Repaired the solder and got the guy back on the road..The
A/C was a nice pleasant bonus for the customer. I knew ya couldn’t show us a video without adding a few bonuses at the end. Ivan. Is it possible the a/c might be the culprit.? If the spike diode for the A/C clutch quit working and fed back into that connector it could heat and crack the solder joint.. Wouldn’t hurt to check it if ya get a chance. Nice work Ivan. I’m glad you were able to fix the instrument cluster. Not many mechanics would attempt that.
A bad cluster could cause a no-start on some early 2000 Fords. Skills as always.
It's probably the SVCM (sun visor control module )
I figured it was the CFMM (carpeted floor mat module) but then I remembered they only use those in Lincolns
Guys, in these times, nobody could tell if you made a joke or if there is really such a module 🤣
@@Spelter The SVMC is accompanied by the MMCM (make-up mirror control module) ;)
Ivan nice job I now know who I would want to diagnose my car. You do amazing work!
My 2010 Escape XLS 4d has had the exact same problem for years. Thank you, much appreciated and grateful for this video. Liked and subscribed.
Another quick check when you have the board out see if the cap cans are leaking. The dielectric crap that comes out will damage PCB traces. From the ones I could see at the angle you shot I did not see any of the vile goo. Good work.
That what my teacher at school said: "All electronic is a science about good connections"
Thanks, good isolation of the flaw. That connector has a lot of strain challenging those solder bonds - typical Ford issue. Simple strain relief of the PCB connector plastic body could keep the harness weight from challenging the solder. Looks like they added goop to the metal pins instead.
Christmas addition!
Had that once all the lights just started flickering and flashing like a god dam Christmas tree. Turned out it was a bad body control module
@@ryans413 my 2017 ridgeline does this to me goes back to normal after a drive cycle
Probably some dorman part 😂
Fixed this type of issue on late 90's Grand Caravans. Cracked solder joints cause the cluster to die. That connector should have some support other than the pins to the board.
Thank you very much for posting this video! I have a 2011 escape that has been plagued with electrical issues and it took me months to realize that there was a problem with that exact connector above the cluster. I was having to jiggle this connector to get my truck to start and as it got worse i was jiggling it going down the road to keep the heat, powersteering, gauges and other stuff functioning properly. Its crazy how many important aspects of the vehicle are effected by this one little connector! My truck is broke down about 10 miles from home right now and i am going to go get the cluster and try my luck with resoldering it the way you did. Any tips for someone not accustomed to this kind of soldering would be greatly appreciated, Thank you again!
Fantastic Ivan. Really great great video.
no parts but knowledge required fix!great job ivan as always!
I've only seen that problem a couple times. Most of the vehicles I worked on over a 30 year career from Jan 1987 until 2016 were 2011 and older.
Classic! I had a chevy which kept running AFTER the ignition was turned off and the key removed. A good wack on the dash would turn it off.
I knew right off the bat it was going to be a solder joint issue when you started tapping stuff to make it work. I've fixed so much crap by re-flowing solder joints it's not even funny. I've even fixed a sunroof module that wouldn't go forward unless you hit it by accident-ish. I couldn't see any broken solder joints, but I re-flowed them anyway just in case and it never had a problem since; and that was years ago.
To name a few things I fixed recently: 3 ford radio displays, 1 Hyundai radio display, 1 kenwood radio amplifier, 2 computer motherboards, 1 TV power board, etc. all from just re-flowing suspect solder joints.
Just drive down road, smacking dash and knocking instrument panel. I had a 65 Ford that I pull out light switch and push down at same time, worked for years
Hat's off to you Ivan on this one! Nice job initially playing with the symptoms to detect a pattern, then following that logically to the network schematic and the salient scope test. But especially good work tracking down the location of the intermittent connection which, as we know, can be the most elusive part! And of course, great satisfaction in repairing the PCB and no parts required. A+!
Thanks Graham! Yes locating the exact problem took some patience and a fine touch 😁
Ivan great job 👍
Ivan and Eric only two guys who try to save their customers money instead of running to the parts cannon. Ivans scientific method on the white board of knowledge and physical repairs are proved. Seems to love a challenge repairing plastic crap and resoldering from an engineering background it shows Ivans laudable skills!
So... you charge extra for accidental fixes? That's a pretty serious fix to get the AC running for free.
I would have been very wary of trying to get that cluster out - and apart! Great job Ivan. Really enjoyed this video. Thanks.
This is totally normal Ivan. Instead of touch screen Ford uses a new technology called tap screen. Great video btw.! Thanks for sharing!
Outstanding Ivan! Happy customer, repair did not break the bank like a stealership would. Cluster was definitely NOT made in USA, probably China or Mexico using inferior solder. At first I thought center module, but when you tapped on cluster....bad connection popped in my head. Best part?....No parts required and a bonus...ac works now...lol. Stay save Ivan, God Bless.
The problem is physical assembly design by electronics-oriented engineers with inadequate ethical or general engineering education or training being asked to design for cheapness of manufacturing of a product with a 3 year planned replacement. The automotive industry's cash cow is not from sales of high quality products but repair and replacement revenue.
The design selection of the connector and its attachment to save $0.20 on a hundred dollar assembly is why the connections failed. Flexible plastic with through "rivets" provide NO stress relief at all. Had this been attached with metal standoffs and screws and the harness supported instead of hanging freely, the solder pads could have been half the area, the solder could have been any alloy, and the board connection never failed.
If it would've been made in the US, the car wouldn't have left the dealership.
Don't think they made bad electronics because they are stupid, but when the super US giant is only paying scraps for it, I wouldn't give a shit either.
When I buy my boards from chinese suppliers, they work always but cost a lot more than Jeep or others pay them for a board.
That my friend is the result of capitalism.
I have a 2004 f150 that did this, I lived on 4 miles of dirt road, I finally found the problem and shoved a wedge of paper in there. It worked better, later removed the cluster and reflowed the solder joints. Still have it going, 12 years later.
I have an ESCAPE does the exact same thing in the shop. Watch the MS can, when the IC acts up the low side shows interference. The TPMS, brake and all the modules losing comm’s are on the Medium speed network. The IC is the gateway module translating both HS and MS can’s.
It seems that the cluster is the gateway to the whole vehicle, I had a similar issue with a 2014 Ford EcoSport, I like these type of issue to diagnose, it's challenging thanks for sharing
It's the translator between high and medium speed CAN 👍
Reseating connectors has fixed many an issue for me. Reflowing connector pins as well.
..and that is why your picture is on my wall! Kidding.....
Used to be tv tech saw this problem repeatedly at connections and heat areas as resistors💞
Repaired a few European Ford clusters with the same defect. Often it's one of the pins in the top corners of the main connector. It's really easy to miss since the cracks aren't always visible, even under a microscope.
Great job you great Fixer.not very many people can fix that stuff. All the best from Canada
Something similar happened to me with a Ford edge, hvac module (which runs on mid speed network) could not comunicate with PCM that runs on the highspeed can, it ended up being the instrumet cluster.
Great diag and fix. One quick thought, while I had the cluster apart I'd have blobbed some silicon carny goo, or even some hot snot, on those pins/the connector base to give it some extra support and prevent it from vibrating.
Great idea 👍
Nice repair! Maybe put a little glue between the connector and the board to bond the two together to illuminate future cracking?
Awesome video, had same problem. fixed it right after watching this video
My old 2002 F150 has had two issues caused by solder connections. The overhead console quit working. The widely known fix is to resolder a couple of connections on the board. The odometer numbers fade away with the same fix on the intrument cluster, also a very common problem widely known.
Holy crap! That stupid ford door jingle is so annoying!
New Volvo is even worse lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Doo dee doo! Doo dee doo! hahaha
Great video as always! was there still a problem with the center dash clock display or did it indirectly fix that too?
Didn't touch the center display
My mom has a 2014 Ford Fusion. For the first year and a half it had a similar issue but was very random and intermittent. Would even effect the power steering and would make it take right turns on its own. Took the dealers that long to figure out that it was the remote start module that they installed when the car was new, it was spamming the network, and the car thought it was data from all sorts of different sensors on the network that was sending the erroneous data, to the point where it would match suggested input from the torque and wheel position sensor for right hand turns. Craziest issue I have seen in a car before.